[WRC] FORUM8 Rally Japan 2024

[CeskyOndra]

What a shame.. It is over for Hyundai. Can't imagine being Tanak now..

[Tauri_J]

Surely looked like a wrong note. Ott stopped turning mid corner

[EstWRC]

Kovalainen off at the same corner

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Congrats to Thierry. This World Chamipnship win was fully-derseved. :champion:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdGyXIqWsAAXhHx?format=jpg&name=medium

[Zoli]

It's not over for Hyundai yet. If may calculations are correct they need just 5 more points on Sunday overall than Toyota to win it and Neuville can push like hell now.

[Danny0405]

With that loss, Toyota is currently ahead in manufacturers.

Up by 4 if I’m right (if Evans and Ogier goes to the finish)
But Neuville can now put maximum attack and Mikkelsen has good road position (but some issue with the car)

Let’s see what happen but it’ll be maximum attack now

[focus206]

So happy for Neuville :D
Finally, Thierry, finally you're world champion! Damn well deserved.
Now let's enjoy the battle for the manu title.

[jonkka]

Up by 4 if I’m right (if Evans and Ogier goes to the finish)
But Neuville can now put maximum attack and Mikkelsen has good road position (but some issue with the car)

Let’s see what happen but it’ll be maximum attack now

By five (549 vs 544) but I am not sure what happens to Saturday points now that Tanak is out (I assume they stay as is and not move up).

Mikkelsen and Neuville can attack, that is true but so can all Toyotas. Admittedly Hyundais have much better road position but on the other hand, both of their cars must finish whereas Toyota can afford to lose one as Saturday points alone guarantee great haul for them.

[NoFear85]

Toyota is now 8 poins ahead of Hyundai (554 vs 546). You have live points on official website.

[COD]

After the crash he said “there was nothing” and I think he meant with that the gravel crew had nothing in the notes

He hit the slippery part on the right and after that was history

Makes sense

[AE1WRC]

WOW!! Congrats to Thierry and Martijn. So weird season for all three previous champions with all the mistakes. This is so unusual for Ott. This is why I love rallying!! ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

[COD]

Kovalainen off at the same corner

Without a gravel crew, crazy that the team made such stupid choice

[Danny0405]

By five (549 vs 544) but I am not sure what happens to Saturday points now that Tanak is out (I assume they stay as is and not move up).

Mikkelsen and Neuville can attack, that is true but so can all Toyotas. Admittedly Hyundais have much better road position but on the other hand, both of their cars must finish whereas Toyota can afford to lose one as Saturday points alone guarantee great haul for them.

It is moving up (example with Rovanpera in Finland)

From my calculation

511 + 18 (1st, Evans) + 15 (2nd, Ogier) = 544

526 + 8 (5th manufacturer, Neuville) + 6 (6th, Mikkelsen) = 540

Katsuta not counting as he is 3rd Toyota.

[CeskyOndra]

IMO its 8 points difference, Mikkelsen doesn't score and Evans moves to P1 (18p)..

[COD]

Btw, did you see that Andreas had a cover on the radiator, now dissapeared. That was the reason for his coolant on the windscreen?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Imagine if Mikkelsen helps Hyundai win the Manus title here... and then they bin him for Fourmaux.

[htr]

2593

[TypeR]

2593

Love is in the air..

[jonkka]

Katsuta not counting as he is 3rd Toyota.

Katsuta is insurance for Toyota, he doesn't count for Saturday currently but will count if they lose either of the others. Also, Katsuta can attack freely (as per their strategy pre-Tanak) as he has least to lose from Saturday (or nothing if two others finish). In that sense, Toyota has upper hand as they can lose one car with minimal or no effect whereas another loss for Hyundai is terminal.

[Danny0405]

Katsuta is insurance for Toyota, he doesn't count for Saturday currently but will count if they lose either of the others. Also, Katsuta can attack freely (as per their strategy pre-Tanak) as he has least to lose from Saturday (or nothing if two others finish). In that sense, Toyota has upper hand as they can lose one car with minimal or no effect whereas another loss for Hyundai is terminal.

Yep, Toyota is in better situation than Hyundai for sure
But considering the road position and that Neuville is now freed, it is not over for Hyundai.

Interesting stuff to see.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdG4AeoW4AAbnaD?format=jpg&name=medium

[CeskyOndra]

Looking forward to see happy Neuville flatout on tarmac for the first time in 2024 basically

[Eli]

Congrats to Neuville & Wydaeghe, well deserved. Gotta say though it's a very anti-climactic way to end the season, and it's weird that they interview him as champ before the rally is over, really weird, like this entire season has been.
I seriously hope next year will be more normal, but hopfully more comptetitive with Neuville now finally winning the championship he (hopefully) will have the confidence to push Kalle all the way to the title. I also hope Tänak gets his mojo back and stop making these silly silly mistakes, if we can get a 3 way fight like we used to back in 2017-2019, I'll be pleased.

[CeskyOndra]

So is Mikkelsen taking points from Saturday? Is the gap 4 points?? If yes, game on guys

[erikli2]

The crash in better quality:

https://x.com/OfficialWRC/status/1860472086923284817?t=lHwatDVOZ-5Ak1wMbuSq3w&s=19

[Zoli]

I have a wild idea that if Fourmaux's heading to Hyundai, Cyril might ring him on the phone that he should DNF... That would help Hyundai massively...

Edit: But only if he doesn't manage to beat any of the first two Toyotas today.

[NoFear85]

If I’m right, my calculations is like this. After saturday point are Toyota 544 and Hyundai 534. Now if Hyundai drivers get mas sunday points (1st and 2nd sundey + PS) they will get 22. If Toyota gets next positions on sunday (in front of Ford - 3rd and 4th) tey will get 14. Whit this points Toyota wins manufacturer championship.

Maybe I’m wrong, correct me please.

[jonkka]

So is Mikkelsen taking points from Saturday? Is the gap 4 points?? If yes, game on guys

I don't think so, he retired.

[Danny0405]

So is Mikkelsen taking points from Saturday? Is the gap 4 points?? If yes, game on guys

From my understanding yes, Munster always took the 6 points even in Super Rally.
And if Mikkelsen-Neuville are 1-2 for Sunday and Ogier-Evans 3-4, it’s a tie before the Power Stage (title for Toyota in case of ties because of more rally wins).

[TypeR]

I know he is the champ now... but still.. zero words from Neuville about like.. sry for Ott and it isn't how I wanted to get the title..

But okay.. Thierry had a really stable seadom and that brought the title!

[jonkka]

If I’m right, my calculations is like this. After saturday point are Toyota 544 and Hyundai 534. Now if Hyundai drivers get mas sunday points (1st and 2nd sundey + PS) they will get 22. If Toyota gets next positions on sunday (in front of Ford - 3rd and 4th) tey will get 14. Whit this points Toyota wins manufacturer championship.

Maybe I’m wrong, correct me please.

I think that's correct (damn I hate the new points system).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All these calculations needed with this points system is ridiculous.

[CeskyOndra]

So no one knows..

[NoFear85]

For sure this points system is ridiculous.

[TypeR]

For sure this points system is ridiculous.

Same for everybody. Just play them right!

[EstWRC]

I know he is the champ now... but still.. zero words from Neuville about like.. sry for Ott and it isn't how I wanted to get the title..

But okay.. Thierry had a really stable seadom and that brought the title!

What did you expect

[focus206]

Congrats to Neuville & Wydaeghe, well deserved. Gotta say though it's a very anti-climactic way to end the season, and it's weird that they interview him as champ before the rally is over, really weird, like this entire season has been.


it is a bit anticlimatic, it would have been more exciting a finish at the PS, but not that unusual. In 2011, Hirvonen retired on day 1 of the last round and Loeb became champion. I'm sure there are other examples of the chasing driver retiring.

[TypeR]

What did you expect
True.


just max disappointed.

[CeskyOndra]

"To score points, the crew must be classified in the Final Classification of the Rally"

I found this, that would simply mean that Mikkelsen counts

[Eli]

I think that's correct (damn I hate the new points system).

Good thing they'll change it again next year (in the hopes it'll be simpler).

[Eli]

it is a bit anticlimatic, it would have been more exciting a finish at the PS, but not that unusual. In 2011, Hirvonen retired on day 1 of the last round and Loeb became champion. I'm sure there are other examples of the chasing driver retiring.

2018 too with Neuville & Tänak dropping the ball back then and Ogier winning, this simply felt weird, like this entire season and that stupid scoring system, but still, well deserved for Neuville, Won Monte-Carlo and actually held the lead until the end, can't remember when was the last time that happened? 2015 maybe or 2016 for Ogier & VW?

[CeskyOndra]

If the difference is 4 points and Hyundai holds onto 1-2 in Super Sunday, the points will be level going into the Power Stage. Just wow.

[Backa]

I know he is the champ now... but still.. zero words from Neuville about like.. sry for Ott and it isn't how I wanted to get the title..

Lifelong dream achieved, emotions are high and internet mob expects PR cliches to camera...

[dimviii]

Neuville Thierry - Wydaeghe M.
"Honestly - it came as a surprise. I don't know what to say, but I think we deserve it. A lot more pressure than we needed for this last event, but we managed it as best as we could with the problems we had. We are a bit more relaxed now and we can push now to go home with all the trophies. We will go flat out."

[EstWRC]

He truly deserved the title this year, Tänak and Ogier were crashing left and right while trying to catch him while he was super consistent and scoring good points from every round, like really consistent and that brought him the title while only winning two events.

Something really changed IMO in his approach for this year and let’s see if it’s continues also next year or he will get overly confident like Tänak kinda IMO did in 2020 after winning the title.

Kalle is fully back time next year, I suspect it may take couple of rounds for him to settle in the rhythm again and he maybe a little bit off the pace.

Yeah Tänak crashed here today but seems he has finally find something with the car on tarmac, question is will the 25 car be even better and suitable for him.

Anyway, seems we may indeed have a great 3 way fight next season.

[focus206]

He truly deserved the title this year, Tänak and Ogier were crashing left and right while trying to catch him while he was super consistent and scoring good points from every round, like really consistent and that brought him the title while only winning two events.

Something really changed IMO in his approach for this year and let’s see if it’s continues also next year or he will get overly confident like Tänak kinda IMO did in 2020 after winning the title.

Kalle is fully back time next year, I suspect it may take couple of rounds for him to settle in the rhythm again and he maybe a little bit off the pace.

Yeah Tänak crashed here today but seems he has finally find something with the car on tarmac, question is will the 25 car be even better and suitable for him.

Anyway, seems we may indeed have a great 3 way fight next season.

One thing that should not be underestimated - Hyundais were far more reliable this year than they were last years. Previously, it was almost granted in like 3 rallies each season, Neuville and Tanak had to retire for technical trouble or super fragile suspensions. Even the fact that Neuville got fuel pump failure in Safari and turbo failure in Japan is lightweight compared to "amazing quality" of the past few years.

[CeskyOndra]

They said its 4 points official after Saturday

[CeskyOndra]

Wrc.com is also showing it

[mousti]

Tanak and Kovalainen..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241124/57e8ed60645697910f4725787bdc2231.jpg

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2406APNFAG met Tapatalk

[Danny0405]

WRC.com updated standings, it’s a tie with current provisional Saturday and Super Sunday standings (553)

[meh]

Hard to believe that everyone reach to the finish as it is win it or bin it situation for everyone.

But I call it all "japanese-espresso", it took my sleep.

[CeskyOndra]

Can you imagine the PS? Everyone going absolutely flat-out, absolutely..

[ipe]

Great to see everyone pushing hard to win the manufacturer title. This is a proper way to end a season.

[meh]

How many cars in a row can commentators be surprised about the last split for Neuville, that is most likely 3sec shift from the actual time.

For example, Evans's first split was 9.9sec off the pace, next one only 3.9.

[CeskyOndra]

Once again, unlucky moment for Ott "saved" my pickems.. And this time, it probably secured me a win this year

[rallyfiend]

My God there's going to be some fast driving on the PS.

Love it or hate it, you can't fault the new points situation it has created this year.

[deephouse]

Wow Tanak.. I'm still shocked how he managed to screw it up all over again. Gutted for him. On the other end great to finally see always a second one to win it. Big congrats to Neuville becoming a champion. He truly deserved it.

Way to go too to Mikkelsen up to that point. Now he must finish it on high.

On PS it will be great battle, I don't remember to be that close ever for manufacturer to get to the last round. Both brands have kind of equal chances. Hyundai better road position, sunday lead overall, assuming Fourmaux (future Hyundai driver) in the mix to screw Toyota. And Toyota 3 drivers with Taka advantage over losing nothing if he bin it. So bring it on.

[Maui J.]

Nice to be following a rally in a similar time zone for a change.

Congrats to Thierry, crappy way to end for Ott. The highs and the lows of sport.

Mikkelsen and Neuville will have to drive their butts off to secure max PS points. What a crazy end to the championship. I don't normally tune into the live broadcasts, prefer to just watch the daily highlights package, mainly because of the time zones, but will definately be tuning into this final stage.

[deephouse]

Well done Gryazin for that dominant win. That guy should be put in rally1 car soon.

Well done Sami. He clinched the title from Solberg. Well deserved

[focus206]

Gryazin dominates Japan with the Initial D livery :D
Congrats Sami Pajari, well deserved WRC2 title. Promising driver, hope to see him in Rally1 next year.

[deephouse]

Mikkelsen drove crazy, taer bits of hyundai off

[jonkka]

Mikkelsen drove crazy, taer bits of hyundai off

But went off a bit and lost precious seconds.

[EstWRC]

Mikkelsen very lucky there. Almost binned it

[focus206]

Great commitment from Mikkelsen, shame for that mistake. You can tell he pushed hard

[deephouse]

He will still probably finish high on sunday standings so let see

[jonkka]

He will still probably finish high on sunday standings so let see

Katsuta seems to be faster so Hyundai lost title there (barring problems).

[EstWRC]

Yeah seems Toyota has taken the manu title after all

[deephouse]

Not yet, if any of remaining does bin it completely it could be all over. still the need to finish to score saturday points

[EstWRC]

I have to say congrats to Fourmaux and Msport too. Quite a good season for both, especially for Fourmaux

[jonkka]

That's it - unless Evans bins it, Toyota has it by 2 points.

[Duvel]

Congratulations to Thierry, well deserved!!

[focus206]

Huge drive by Ogier, Toyota is champion

[deephouse]

Well done Elfyn and Toyota for manufacturer title

So again Neuville did all by himself till the end. They really need to find consistent drivers for manufacturer titles.

[EstWRC]

Last win for Evans was last years Japan and now he does it again over a year.

Congrats to all the winners this season!

Bring on the next season with better points system (except super Sunday) and Kalle back in the game full time!

[EstWRC]

So again Neuville did all by himself till the end. They really need to find consistent drivers for manufacturer titles.

Yeah he is a god and Tänak is a failure like you said in a post which you deleted later ;)

[stavrosGDB]

What an end,congrats to Neuville and Toyota.2025 loading..

[Integrale]

Champions! So happy for Thierry and Martijn. After Bruno Thiry, Freddy Loix and François Duval it's the Belgian from the East Cantons that gets it.

And suddenly our mainstream media discovers rallysport. 🙂

Really nice to see all rivals together at the finish as well. You won't see that in a lot of sports.

[deephouse]

Yeah he is a god and Tänak is a failure like you said in a post which you deleted later ;)

Sorry but the fact and the proves are out there that only one who are capable of doing the job is Sordo. Tanak really can't get a break. I think he really was hungry for that driver title and screw it up completely the manufacturer title and then the pressure falls on even more uncosistent Mikkelsen who again made a crucial mistake.

I mentioned of Neuville being god, because seems many guys here still don't understand that the team is build around him, all that spins there is around him. And the most that happened, theyy achieved was because of him. The closest to him is Sordo and no one else. Sorry, but it's true. It was proven once again today.

[EstWRC]

Sorry but the fact and the proves are out there that only one who are capable of doing the job is Sordo. Tanak really can't get a break. I think he really was hungry for that driver title and screw it up completely the manufacturer title and then the pressure falls on even more uncosistent Mikkelsen who again made a crucial mistake.

I mentioned of Neuville being god, because seems many guys here still don't understand that the team is build around him, all that spins there is around him. And the most that happened, theyy achieved was because of him. The closest to him is Sordo and no one else. Sorry, but it's true. It was proven once again today.

i think everyone knows here that the team is built around him, no surprises there but but i dont agree at all with your other facts that Sordo is closest to him, if he would be then they wouldnt have hired Tänak and pushed Sordo to do whole season. He is a very good 3rd driver but not even second.

IMO you are going over the top with the praise (he deserves every praise for this season) here like Thierry has won a title every season now and carried the team alone. He has had also plenty of occasions where he has screwed his own chances and also teams in the past, not only on one occasion. (Remember last round of 2020 in Monza? where he binned and Tänak/Sordo claimed the Manu title)

By your logic Thierry was also failure today cause he didnt win the power stage? But we know it isnt true

Tänak and Neuville have been together in Hyundai for 4 seasons now

Out of 4 Tänak has finished ahead of Thierry in 2 occasions and now Thierry also 2, while taking the bigger crown becoming a champion. So before this season it was 2-1 to Tänak but i didnt see you comment then that the others are failure who have driven with Hyundai.

[Eli]

Last win for Evans was last years Japan and now he does it again over a year.

Congrats to all the winners this season!

Bring on the next season with better points system (except super Sunday) and Kalle back in the game full time!

& the opposite to 2019-2020, Hyundai taking the drivers' title & Toyota the Manufacturers' crown.

[deephouse]

I calculated the old system (2023) with this year final results and it is confirmed that Neuville would still take the title.


Neuville |211
Evans |194
Tanak |176
Ogier |171
Fourmaux |136
Rovanpera|117
Katsuta |94
Munster |50
Sordo |43
Lappi |31
Mikkelsen |29

2023 point sstem
->18, 15, 13, 10, 8, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 - saturday standings (must finish the rally to score)
->7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - sunday standings
->5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - power stage standings

[Eli]

Imagine now if Neuville would go on & sign for Toyota for 2025, that would be funny...In all seriousness though, I can't wait for 2025 to arrive, 2 months 'till Monte-Carlo...

[EstWRC]

I calculated the old system (2023) with this year final results and it is confirmed that Neuville would still take the title.


Neuville |211
Evans |194
Tanak |176
Ogier |171
Fourmaux |136
Rovanpera|117
Katsuta |94
Munster |50
Sordo |43
Lappi |31
Mikkelsen |29

Interesting to note that both Evans and Tanaks gap to Neuville is less compared to this years system.

[Morte66]

Elfyn gets a win and Sami gets the championship. Not a bad rally for me. :)

[Sergiow]

Congratulations to Thierry and Martijn
https://images.vrt.be/width1280/2024/11/24/67cccb5f-8766-4015-aaee-37760b6853d5.jpg

SS18: Mikkelsen is the first in and has some honest and sincere congratulations for his team-mate and friend, 2024 WRC champion, Thierry Neuville. Very happy for [Neuville], well deserved. Very happy for him."

[ik1911]

I calculated the old system (2023) with this year final results and it is confirmed that Neuville would still take the title.


Neuville |211
Evans |194
Tanak |176
Ogier |171
Fourmaux |136
Rovanpera|117
Katsuta |94
Munster |50
Sordo |43
Lappi |31
Mikkelsen |29


calculate the old old system before Power stage!

Evans 141
Neuville 138
Ogier 120
Tanak 114
...

Congat. Neuville-Waydaeghe, They Deserved Title!

[EstWRC]

calculate the old old system before Power stage!

Evans 141
Neuville 138
Ogier 120
Tanak 114
...

Congat. Neuville-Waydaeghe, They Deserved Title!

These calculations don’t make sense at all. How come they had so much less points than overall in the end?

[deephouse]

Interesting to note that both Evans and Tanaks gap to Neuville is less compared to this years system.

Yeah but probaly many of them wouldn't push on sunday at all, so it's quite irrevelant. I did it just to compare that it seems they get it right with that points. I did it also for 2025 and it looks again, that Neuville would win it.

Neuville |250
Evans |225
Tanak |215
Ogier |197
Fourmaux |154
Katsuta |108
Rovanpera|100

2025 point system
->25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1 - overall
->5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - sunday standings
->5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - power stage standings

[Sergiow]

Looking forward to see happy Neuville flatout on tarmac for the first time in 2024 basically

Neuville went flat out in Monte this year beating Ogier in his own garden and taking the full 30 points. But the real high point of the season was on Saturday of the Croation Rally when he Neuville did one of his finest drives when Huyndai made the wrong tire choice, especially during SS14: Neuville A phenomenal run from Thierry Neuville, who goes quickest in the rain on SS14. He retakes the rally lead and goes 3.5sec quicker than Toyota's Sébastien Ogier."I don't know, I went flat out. When we found out there could be rain at the end, we just went flat out. It looks like we didn't have the optimal [tyre] choice so far, but we're going to try hard."

[doubled1978]

Congrats to Thierry, I know he gets some flak, but for me he deserves to have WC against his name.
Pretty cool that everything went down to the last stage of the last rally for the constructors championship. The super Sunday thing does do some good, I just wish the rally win was more valuable in isolation.

[EstWRC]

Yeah but probaly many of them wouldn't push on sunday at all, so it's quite irrevelant. I did it just to compare that it seems they get it right with that points. I did it also for 2025 and it looks again, that Neuville would win it.

Neuville |250
Evans |225
Tanak |215
Ogier |197
Fourmaux |154
Katsuta |108
Rovanpera|100

2025 point system
->25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1 - overall
->5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - sunday standings
->5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - power stage standings

Wait what? This has been confirmed for 25?

[Sergiow]

I know he is the champ now... but still.. zero words from Neuville about like.. sry for Ott and it isn't how I wanted to get the title..

But okay.. Thierry had a really stable seadom and that brought the title!

I really think it should be Tänak to be feeling sorry because he not only lost the more than ever important victory today in Toyota's own backgarden but also the constructor championship + there were some high exec delegation from Huyndai HQ in Japan at the rally to discuss a possible 4th car for Huyndai next year ...

[deephouse]

Wait what? This has been confirmed for 25?

Sorry not yet, I forgot to mentioned that it's just to compare.

I kinda have a feeling it will be confirmed since really no one likes the current system. And that one would actually be more understandable. All they do is just to constantly also showing how the manufacturer championship is counted, because that one is even more nightmare to count.


I really think it should be Tänak to be feeling sorry because he not only lost the more than ever important victory today in Toyota's own backgarden but also the constructor championship + there were some high exec delegation from Huyndai HQ in Japan at the rally to discuss a possible 4th car for Huyndai next year ...

They should still do it (if they really intend to leave as manufacturer at the end of season), so it would be a fair goodbye.

[Päss1928]

Sad for Tänak, a bit unlucky this season but also many many unforgivable mistakes. And genuinely happy for Neuville, well deserved. I also like his attitude in the recent years, never blames the car or the team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All the Teams have something to celebrate this year - Hyundai with Neuville WDC, Toyota with the Manus Title and M-Sport with Fourmaux's multiple podiums.

At least this rewards their commitment to the WRC despite all its faults and cost.

[eib1]

Points system comparison (full and detailed) if anyone interested

https://i.postimg.cc/K8g5nX3Z/points-all.jpg

[dimviii]

Congrats to Neuville for the Championship.
Fully deserved fair and square!
Did Tanak explained in Estonian media his crash?

[EstWRC]

Congrats to Neuville for the Championship.
Fully deserved fair and square!
Did Tanak explained in Estonian media his crash?

He said the same as to dirtfish, the place surprised him by being so slippery.

Haven’t seen him so down for a while or maybe never, you can tell he is so embarrassed

[mousti]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EqEWyKHQx/

Crazy this...

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[Rallyper]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EqEWyKHQx/

Crazy this...

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Oohhhh dear!!!

[trykmann]

He said the same as to dirtfish, the place surprised him by being so slippery.

Haven’t seen him so down for a while or maybe never, you can tell he is so embarrassed

Is this an error from the gravel crew?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Imagine if Mikkelsen helps Hyundai win the Manus title here... and then they bin him for Fourmaux.

But as it turned out he effectively lost them the Manus with his off on SS5 and mistake on the PS. :(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish analysis of Tanak crash...

https://youtu.be/OBoQ6j3R_Mg?si=_1AvHxGCeo05zWsN

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-laments-complete-f-up-after-japan-crash/

[Morte66]

Dirtfish analysis of Tanak crash...

https://youtu.be/OBoQ6j3R_Mg?si=_1AvHxGCeo05zWsN

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-laments-complete-f-up-after-japan-crash/

Aside from the reasons for the crash, after looking at the replay I am very impressed with the safety engineering of the cars.

[saco0o]

scary to see heikki's onboard, flying in the direction of ott's car.
really cool video by colin/dirtfish. i really like their coverage and analysis tbf.

i just hate the way they keep "milking content" during the week (tho i understand they gotta keep the clicks coming to make $). ogier says one thing - they report that - they release a video of him saying that - they writte a bad article about 'what does ogier meant when he said that' - then another bad article on 'repercussion of what seb said' - then another article with nothing, just a clikcbait...


haha

[deephouse]

But as it turned out he effectively lost them the Manus with his off on SS5 and mistake on the PS. :(

It was three major things that they lost. Mikkelsen's off on SS5. Ott's off on SS17, and again Mikkelsen's excursion into those trees. I don't know if it's Neuville's technical issues blame or not, don't have all that knowledge on that side.

If Mikkelsen didn't made that mistake at the PS, the points would still be equal 560 both (if we assume he would be 2nd/3rd). What would they do then? Imagine if FIA then decided to add extra small event to carry that title there and give the world even greater story, than it was.

Don't know, but this year many drivers did unthinkable at the last day of rallying, even when they could go safe. So many times. Really prove that sentence: it's not over until it's not over. Even Latvala did admit he was so nervous till the last centimeter of Elfyn to the finish line.

[meh]

* https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1860667454956994621 - Kovalainen onboard from the crash
* https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1860668070533980241 - Järveoja was taking something from their car when Kovalainen landed there. Bad things were not that far away.

(edit: probably both videos were already posted)

[Kras]

Sucks for Ott. This is the thing that makes you cringe in 20 years when you randomly remember it in bed

[focus206]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EqEWyKHQx/

Crazy this...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2406APNFAG met Tapatalk

My God! Luckily no one got hurt, scary.

[COD]

* https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1860667454956994621 - Kovalainen onboard from the crash
* https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1860668070533980241 - Järveoja was taking something from their car when Kovalainen landed there. Bad things were not that far away.

(edit: probably both videos were already posted)

That is why you should have one the drivers there to warn cars that come after you, or at least put the warning triangle there

[Backa]

Thierry is my favourite driver in current grid so it feels fantastic to see him became champion. After five runner-ups in his career, it must be huge relief.

Already can't wait for next season. Kalle back as full-time, Thierry now among champs, Ott aware he could be champion this year if he had little more luck.

Also want to show some love to Rally Japan, some stages are quite monotonous (weirdly one having iconic tunnel seems to be most boring overall) but there are also stages there that were very fun to watch, with changes of scenery/flow/road width etc. Good challenge for drivers, distinctive from other tarmac rounds we have in calendar and Japan would stay in my dream calendar - not as last round though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdI_X6uWsAA6jz1?format=jpg&name=medium

[CeskyOndra]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdI_X6uWsAA6jz1?format=jpg&name=medium

After horrible Friday afternoon for Thierry Neuville, he still grabed an insane 17 points - he didn't give up again - and thats the reason, why he is the 2024 champion!

[Eli]

I sincerely hope he'll have that #1 on that car next year, it's been too long. and fought too hard for him to continue with that #11, and as an added bonus, he'll have it twice now that the 'HY' sign is gone.
Not the most important thing I know, it's just annoying for me to see year after year the champion not having number 1 on the door, call me old fashioned but old habits (ish) die hard.

[becher]

Happy to see Neuville and Wydaeghe finally clinch the title. He drove the season like a champion but I don't think it would have been enough with Rovanperä around. I do hope he will fight for wins on a more regular basis next year, now that he isn't the eternal bridesmaid anymore.

Splitting the titles is a good thing, but it would've done the championship a favor if Hyundai would have taken it. But anyway good on Toyota, but bad for Lancias record book.

Tänak really f* up in the morning. I have a feeling he still had both eyes on his shot at the drivers title and who could blame him, but he set a crazy pace that no one could match on the polluted part of the stage and arguably cost them the manufacturers championship in the process. I don't think he made himself very popular withe the team there. One could also see his disappointment when Neuville finished the rally, Tänak for sure had hope when he went to japan.

[AE1WRC]

Happy to see Neuville and Wydaeghe finally clinch the title. He drove the season like a champion but I don't think it would have been enough with Rovanperä around. I do hope he will fight for wins on a more regular basis next year, now that he isn't the eternal bridesmaid anymore.

Splitting the titles is a good thing, but it would've done the championship a favor if Hyundai would have taken it. But anyway good on Toyota, but bad for Lancias record book.

Tänak really f* up in the morning. I have a feeling he still had both eyes on his shot at the drivers title and who could blame him, but he set a crazy pace that no one could match on the polluted part of the stage and arguably cost them the manufacturers championship in the process. I don't think he made himself very popular withe the team there. One could also see his disappointment when Neuville finished the rally, Tänak for sure had hope when he went to japan.

What Tanak did is literally the definition of "Fd up" but it is what it is. Let's see if Thierry will have the same hunger to win again. Defending a title is more difficult than winning it for the first time as there are only 6 drivers in the history of the sport done this.

[AE1WRC]

[QUOTE=becher;1356274]Happy to see Neuville and Wydaeghe finally clinch the title. He drove the season like a champion but I don't think it would have been enough with Rovanperä around.


It is so weird to see the guy who won the most rallies in the season down in 7th in the standings. Not just Kalle but the mistakes we saw from the other champs like Seb and Ott during this season is also feeling awkward. If you ask anybody who are the most consistent 3 drivers that rarely makes mistakes, my answer is always these 3 top guns.

[TypeR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdKlOENXIAAalv1?format=jpg&name=medium

(Photo from Dirtfish fb)

[AE1WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdKlOENXIAAalv1?format=jpg&name=medium

(Photo from Dirtfish fb)

First time I have seen Aaron show any emotion hahaha :D :D

[becher]

What Tanak did is literally the definition of "Fd up" but it is what it is. Let's see if Thierry will have the same hunger to win again. Defending a title is more difficult than winning it for the first time as there are only 6 drivers in the history of the sport done this.

Even though I like Neuville, I don't think he has a chance really and neither does Tänak. I think Rovanperä will have their number again next year.

[AE1WRC]

Even though I like Neuville, I don't think he has a chance really and neither does Tänak. I think Rovanperä will have their number again next year.


EstWRC mentioned this before I really want to see Ott vs Kalle in a championship fight. I promise you this can be a "must see TV". I also think Kalle is the biggest threat but IMO the only guy that can put up a fight with him is Ott (except Ogier since he is not a full timer).

[focus206]

Even though I like Neuville, I don't think he has a chance really and neither does Tänak. I think Rovanperä will have their number again next year.

I'm very curious to see if Kalle will confirm himself as wunderkind and win again the title next year, comfortably.
But I will say that although I'd pick Kalle as best rally driver overall in this moment, with 3 crashes out of 7 starts, Neuville would have had a chance to beat him this season. Yes, different mentality for Kalle without the title chase etc. but 3 DNF is already a big loss, a couple more mistakes or technical trouble in the remaining 6 rounds and Kalle might not have been able to stop Neuville this year. But we'll never know for sure.

[AE1WRC]

I'm very curious to see if Kalle will confirm himself as wunderkind and win again the title next year, comfortably.
But I will say that although I'd pick Kalle as best rally driver overall in this moment, with 3 crashes out of 7 starts, Neuville would have had a chance to beat him this season. Yes, different mentality for Kalle without the title chase etc. but 3 DNF is already a big loss, a couple more mistakes or technical trouble in the remaining 6 rounds and Kalle might not have been able to stop Neuville this year. But we'll never know for sure.


Bro was super relaxed this season. His accident in Portugal was literally not listening Jonne properly.

[Eli]

I know we've been banging on this a lot this season and I'm aware last year was simillar but I think the fact we again had 7 consecutive gravel events and 3 of them being Poland-Latvia-Finland, changed the mindset of many, that coupled with the fact Kalle & Ogier didn't do a full season added mountains of pressure for all involved full time. Next year I reckon the dynamic will change again, as we lost Poland, and got another unknown event in the form of Paraguay, Canary Islands will be a huge step into the unknown too for most (unless Hyundai decide to reward Hayden with the 4th car there, not gonna happen, I know) & Finally, Saudi Arabia will throw in a huge curveball to the end of the sesason, coupled that with a normal (hopefully) scoring system, qualifying stage and Rovanperä coming back, it'll be a totally different ( & I Hope) less of a strange year.

[becher]

I'm very curious to see if Kalle will confirm himself as wunderkind and win again the title next year, comfortably.
But I will say that although I'd pick Kalle as best rally driver overall in this moment, with 3 crashes out of 7 starts, Neuville would have had a chance to beat him this season. Yes, different mentality for Kalle without the title chase etc. but 3 DNF is already a big loss, a couple more mistakes or technical trouble in the remaining 6 rounds and Kalle might not have been able to stop Neuville this year. But we'll never know for sure.
I think he will win, just think about it: he is a two time champion and wasn't involved in a real title fight yet.

[AE1WRC]

I know we've been banging on this a lot this season and I'm aware last year was simillar but I think the fact we again had 7 consecutive gravel events and 3 of them being Poland-Latvia-Finland, changed the mindset of many, that coupled with the fact Kalle & Ogier didn't do a full season added mountains of pressure for all involved full time. Next year I reckon the dynamic will change again, as we lost Poland, and got another unknown event in the form of Paraguay, Canary Islands will be a huge step into the unknown too for most (unless Hyundai decide to reward Hayden with the 4th car there, not gonna happen, I know) & Finally, Saudi Arabia will throw in a huge curveball to the end of the sesason, coupled that with a normal (hopefully) scoring system, qualifying stage and Rovanperä coming back, it'll be a totally different ( & I Hope) less of a strange year.


Yes I am always excited to see new rallies and especially the qualifying stage (let's see how that plays out).

[AE1WRC]

I think he will win, just think about it: he is a two time champion and wasn't involved in a real title fight yet.

Facts. 2022 we knew from the halfway to the season, it was just the matter of when. In 2023, I am sorry, but as much as I like and respect Elfyn he was never a big threat to Kalle.

[focus206]

I think he will win, just think about it: he is a two time champion and wasn't involved in a real title fight yet.

I think Kalle is indeed the favourite, but it's worth noting that both Neuville and Tanak were driving far less reliable cars than Kalle in 2022 and 2023. Kalle would have still won, but it would have been closer for sure.

[becher]

I think Kalle is indeed the favourite, but it's worth noting that both Neuville and Tanak were driving far less reliable cars than Kalle in 2022 and 2023. Kalle would have still won, but it would have been closer for sure.
Of course, especially in 22 the Hyundai was an inferior car overall.

[Eli]

Regarding that stage 12 incident: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-japan-organizers-fined-e150000-for-van-incident/

[CeskyOndra]

Don't forget that we will have new tires in 2025, so let's see who will adapt fastest

[EstWRC]

Don't forget that we will have new tires in 2025, so let's see who will adapt fastest

Exactly and no hybrid also don’t forget + how is the 25 Hyundai performing

[Eli]

Exactly and no hybrid also don’t forget + how is the 25 Hyundai performing

So many unknowns, the only thing missing is manufacturer No. 4 and it'll be Mint.

[Eli]

Post Event Conference:https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-forum8-rally-japan-2024-final-podium-and-post-event-press-conference
Since they didn't bother livestreaming it (as they did this year actually), on that note, such a huge day for the WRC & no podium (in Toyota City) celebrations ceremony livestream? I feel like we're being robbed from it every time and it's promotion 101. Imagine seeing Max Verstappen win the championship today in Las-Vegas and then not see the podium celebrations after? What the hell....I honestly hope for the good of our sport & the championship that the WRC gets a new, better promoter before next season arrives.

Edit:
The right link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgJPxgaqduQ

[denkimi]

Regarding that stage 12 incident: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-japan-organizers-fined-e150000-for-van-incident/
They should fine that driver those 50.000 euro.

[denkimi]

Who will win next years title will depend on how good the cars are. Kalle had not much resistance in the past, driving a superior car and having only evans and katsuta as rivals.

If hyundai finally gets their shit together, i don't see kalle winning easily. Both tanak and neuville are as good as he is.

[EstWRC]

Who will win next years title will depend on how good the cars are. Kalle had not much resistance in the past, driving a superior car and having only evans and katsuta as rivals.

If hyundai finally gets their shit together, i don't see kalle winning easily. Both tanak and neuville are as good as he is.

I agree with you, maybe only exception is that Neuville and Tänak don’t have that much raw speed anymore as they used to but that’s understandable given the age difference with Kalle.

I definitely consider Neuville and Tänak to be better drivers on tarmac. Kalle has got only one win on tarmac so far, 2022 Croatia

[CeskyOndra]

I agree with you, maybe only exception is that Neuville and Tänak don’t have that much raw speed anymore as they used to but that’s understandable given the age difference with Kalle.

I definitely consider Neuville and Tänak to be better drivers on tarmac. Kalle has got only one win on tarmac so far, 2022 Croatia

..Which was mainly because of his Friday´s road position

[focus206]

Who will win next years title will depend on how good the cars are. Kalle had not much resistance in the past, driving a superior car and having only evans and katsuta as rivals.

If hyundai finally gets their shit together, i don't see kalle winning easily. Both tanak and neuville are as good as he is.

I'd still put my money on Kalle, but it will definitely be closer than 2022 and 2023 with Hyundai not being a pile of junk anymore.

[deephouse]

So many unknowns, the only thing missing is manufacturer No. 4 and it'll be Mint.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1181791173346961&set=a.312173153642105 The 4th manufacturer was there and first thing they appear, they immediately get event organizers 100.000+ fine. :P

[becher]

..Which was mainly because of his Friday´s road position
I don't think so, the final stage performance on the wrong tyres was incredible.

[AE1WRC]

I agree that Thierry is better on Tarmac than Kalle but not Ott. I believe Kalle's time in circuit this year will help him to get better next year in Tarmac rounds.

IMO he is the best on gravel and snow. I don't think he has still reached top of his game on Tarmac but he is still good. The most scariest thing about Rovanpera is when he pushes 100% he is literally from another planet. He always has something reserved under his foot.

I still give the edge to Rovanpera next year since the championship is mostly based on Gravel rounds and with the new rallies added he always excels in new events !!

[deephouse]

Ogier will pick all three too for sure as he like new ones and was always very good to quickly adapt.

[CeskyOndra]

Ogier will pick all three too for sure as he like new ones and was always very good to quickly adapt.

Ogier's picks IMO: Monte, Canarias, Portugal, Sardegna, Greece, Paraguay, CER, Japan and Arabia.. "Part time season"

[denkimi]

I agree that Thierry is better on Tarmac than Kalle but not Ott. I believe Kalle's time in circuit this year will help him to get better next year in Tarmac rounds.

IMO he is the best on gravel and snow. I don't think he has still reached top of his game on Tarmac but he is still good. The most scariest thing about Rovanpera is when he pushes 100% he is literally from another planet. He always has something reserved under his foot.

I still give the edge to Rovanpera next year since the championship is mostly based on Gravel rounds and with the new rallies added he always excels in new events !!
We have seen what happens if kalle pushes 100%. 3 DNF out of 7 rallies.

I believe Tanak is just as fast as rovanpera on gravel, and neuville is faster on tarmac. But that's just my opinion, no hard fact.

[Eli]

Final ratings of 2024: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/dirtfishs-rally-japan-2024-driver-ratings/

[flat_right]

As much as I love Ott, can't argue with Colin this time. Thierry only needed 2 points on Sunday, which, at his level, is basically like cruising through the stages. Ott should have driven safely through, which would have resulted in a perfect season (Drivers 1-2, manus 1st) and everybody would have been happy. Like Ott said, a total fu*k up.

[rallyfiend]

Ott will have cost his mechanics, engineers, Team Principal, administrative staff - as well as the fellow crews - probably quite sizable win bonuses for the Manufacturers Championship that they will have long ago mentally banked. This was theirs to lose for most of the season.

He won't be popular within the team for some time about this.

[Backa]

As much as I love Ott, can't argue with Colin this time. Thierry only needed 2 points on Sunday, which, at his level, is basically like cruising through the stages. Ott should have driven safely through, which would have resulted in a perfect season (Drivers 1-2, manus 1st) and everybody would have been happy. Like Ott said, a total fu*k up.

I would push if I would be Tanak. Chances for drivers title were slim but if Thierry would have some car issue or made costly mistake and Tanak still would lose by 1 point due to safe approach, it would be even bigger fuck up.

We saw crazy things on sundays this year. Tanak win in Sardegna, Rovanpera retiring in Finland and many more. I don't believe Thierry and Ott care about manus title that much to not fight for first or second drivers title.

[focus206]

I would push if I would be Tanak. Chances for drivers title were slim but if Thierry would have some car issue or made costly mistake and Tanak still would lose by 1 point due to safe approach, it would be even bigger fuck up.

We saw crazy things on sundays this year. Tanak win in Sardegna, Rovanpera retiring in Finland and many more. I don't believe Thierry and Ott care about manus title that much to not fight for first or second drivers title.

Ott was the only Hyundai at the front coming Sunday though, he had the responsibility to deliver for the team, especially with title hopes being very slim. I wouldn't blame Tanak if he had 0 titles to his name, like Thierry had - might never have another chance to be world champion, you have to push. But with already one title, in my opinion he should have played it safer.

I'll say this though: I don't know how much Tanak was overpushing and how much it was the notes' fault for not warning about the tricky muddy corner. Moreover, Hyundai is wrong if they blame everything solely on Tanak: his mistake was the biggest, but if Neuville's turbo wouldn't have failed and if Mikkelsen didn't superrally (sorry for him, he gave it all on Sunday but wasn't enough), Hyundai might have had the manu title as well.

[Sergiow]

“It is difficult, it is clearly painful for every single team member – just like I’m sure it was painful for them {Ott and Martin Jarveoja],” Abiteboul added when asked about Tanak’s crash and its impact on the manufacturers' battle.

“I’m going to be honest: I still struggle to measure to what extent [the drivers] know the risk level they are taking in these cars. It is not circuit racing where lap after lap you can say I need to go one tenth faster or one tenth slower, it is not like that. They have a green light to go and then they are alone.

“We are in a time of massive connectivity and an amount of data but there is none of that, and sometimes what is obvious to us looking at the split – it was obvious to me that he was way too quick. It is obvious to me but is it obvious to him? I don’t know.

“The message was clear. We said that we needed to be P3 and P5 [on Sunday], not P1 or P2. There was no necessity to be on a crazy push like that, but the key question is: to what extent do they know they are on such a big push?

“He was starting last and I think there was phone coverage of the stage, but having said that, there is not split information in the car. I have to excuse myself for still lacking experience in knowing their ability to assess.
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-needs-to-do-better-and-learn-from-painful-wrc-title-defeat/10676584/

[meh]

Tänak said that the slippy conditions in the corner came as a surprise. So, it is most likely the mistake from the recce and/or from the gravel crew. If the obvious mistake was made there, I'm not sure the result of pushing just-a-bit-less would make any difference. This is rallying and this kind of stuff happens.

This was the closest and at that moment the most understandable points-loss from the season to lose the manus title. If to take only this rally - why we don't talk about technical issues with Neuvilles car, how many points were lost with that? Why we don't talk about Mikkelsen crashing out, how many points were lost with that? Why we don't talk about Mikkelsen's driving mistake on PS? This was just this rally - how many of these kinds of situations we can find from the season?

[AndersX]

I say the same: Mr. A has to look in the mirror first. Who was that genius who decided that Mikkelsen is very safe and good choice on the tarmac? If they would have done smart choices over the entire season, they would have won it long before Japan.

Btw, check the very interesting mr. Abiteboul's beef with Horner re: engines in the very first season of DtS - how different their carriers have gone afterwards.

[TypeR]

Can't criticize them.. you know.

Don't like that oh no, he was pushing sooo hard..
He wasn't like 5sec up on the splits.. far from it..

What if he was pushing and taking it easy at the same time(Abibubu logic) and losing +7-10sec to lead split time and still slipped in that corner..

Then it would have been bad luck?

[AE1WRC]

I say the same: Mr. A has to look in the mirror first. Who was that genius who decided that Mikkelsen is very safe and good choice on the tarmac? If they would have done smart choices over the entire season, they would have won it long before Japan.

Btw, check the very interesting mr. Abiteboul's beef with Horner re: engines in the very first season of DtS - how different their carriers have gone afterwards.

Bruh taking Mikkelsen for TARMAC rallies was one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen. Whoever made that decision needs to get drug tested lol

[trykmann]

I'll say this though: I don't know how much Tanak was overpushing and how much it was the notes' fault for not warning about the tricky muddy corner.

This crash seems to be a strange one. I looked his onboard and tried to compare it with other drivers. Evans was more careful there, but Ogier seemed to carry more speed through this corner. It seems the corner got muddier with each passing car and they didn't notice it during recce.

NB! This is my amateur understanding and in reality it might be complete rubbish.

[Eli]

I say the same: Mr. A has to look in the mirror first. Who was that genius who decided that Mikkelsen is very safe and good choice on the tarmac? If they would have done smart choices over the entire season, they would have won it long before Japan.

Btw, check the very interesting mr. Abiteboul's beef with Horner re: engines in the very first season of DtS - how different their carriers have gone afterwards.

I know I'm gonna be bacxlashed for this but hell, even Lappi, JUST for Japan would've been a safer bet, he was the only Hyundai driver to finish last year, and in 4th.
Now imagine Lappi say was 4th going into Sunday, even with Ott's mistake he'd now be 3rd.... a long way up from where Mikkelsen finished, where did Mikelsen finish?
This isn't to say Tänak didn't make a silly mistake (to say the least), but this is rally, sh*t happens, (Catalunya 2021 anyone?), I'm sure he's kicking himself about it and will be for sometime. The best thing to do now is to go with a freshmindset in 2025, starting again with 0 points, and NOT go off, puncture them Hankook tyres on the second stage of the rally and finish with a solid point scoring finish.

[PLuto]

So, it is most likely the mistake from the recce and/or from the gravel crew.

It is nice how everybody notices gravel crew. But dont forget that he was starting as last Rally1 car, so there were plenty of cars before him which can bring the gravel or any dirt to the road in front of him. There are drivers who are cutting to bring more gravel on the road for other drivers...

[mknight]

Yep, just as expected here.

Tanak makes a championship deciding completely stupid mistake when under no pressure and with instructions NOT to push.

But the estonian fanclub here blames Mikkelsen for losing 2 points on PS (which didn't matter as long as Neuville got beaten by Ogier) or bring up Lappi who last year (in a completely different point system) managed 4th with super-slow safe driving after many retired and crashing out completely on first day/stages both rallies before.

BB

[mknight]

I know I'm gonna be bacxlashed for this but hell, even Lappi, JUST for Japan would've been a safer bet, he was the only Hyundai driver to finish last year, and in 4th.
Now imagine Lappi say was 4th going into Sunday, even with Ott's mistake he'd now be 3rd.... a long way up from where Mikkelsen finished, where did Mikelsen finish?
This isn't to say Tänak didn't make a silly mistake (to say the least), but this is rally, sh*t happens, (Catalunya 2021 anyone?), I'm sure he's kicking himself about it and will be for sometime. The best thing to do now is to go with a freshmindset in 2025, starting again with 0 points, and NOT go off, puncture them Hankook tyres on the second stage of the rally and finish with a solid point scoring finish.

Comparing completely uncomparable. Point system, manu champs (all decided, due to Lappi and Suninen crashes last year).

This year on Friday Mikkelsen was told to push on a dirty road because of Neuville issues. Last year Lappi was told to drive as safe as possible to get to finish after Sordo and then Neuville crashed.

Btw. you did notice Lappi was actually behind Mikkelsen in Rally2 car most of Friday last year ?

[TypeR]

This year on Friday Mikkelsen was told to push on a dirty road because of Neuville issues.

Lol.. ,,Mikkelsen to push..''
By the time Neuville gor his turbo issues, Mikkelsen was already a day behind..
Lost almost a minute on SS2 and then ended the day on SS5.

ofc Tanak should have brought it to the finish, but saying he had no pressure is also bs.
3rd drivers are also there to bring home points when fast drivers screw up.. should learn from Sordo.

DD

[deephouse]

Lol.. ,,Mikkelsen to push..''
By the time Neuville gor his turbo issues, Mikkelsen was already a day behind..
Lost almost a minute on SS2 and then ended the day on SS5.

ofc Tanak should have brought it to the finish, but saying he had no pressure is also bs.
3rd drivers are also there to bring home points when fast drivers screw up.. should learn from Sordo.

DD

Somehow Mikkelsen screw up, make up for it and screw again on PS, but if he end up 2nd or 3rd (I honestly believe he would not beat Ogier) on last stage, points would be even, but I think Toyota would win by statistics.

The fact is that Hyundai did fucked up big time with this 3rd driver schedule. They should put Lappi/Mikkelsen in every second rally, missing only those who Sordo attend, but still the team could bring one more vehicle for those occasions, and Sordo would be nominated for points, since he is the most reliable (still). That way both would have enough seat time,
and preparations.

Neuville once again prove how things should be done. He had very unfortunate moment with turbo failure, risk damaging the car even more by driving through so much long stages, fall on 15th place, had minutes of difference and on sunday climb back to gain some valuable points on unbelievable 7th place. In manufacturer it didn't matter since all other crews take out all other points. I mean hr was like that all season. He had many screw moments but never saw that completely destroying moments. Tanak had really big ones. And Ogier, also Rovanpera. Mikkelsen and Lappi are class of his own. They were slow and even then screw things up. And all those things then contributed to results now.

Next year I can expect maybe a little less "careful" approach from everyone, because that fragile component will be removed (even slight impact could turn off unit and have huge role in losing so much time). But having new tire supplier, surely it will be a lot of punctures.

[meh]

Yep, just as expected here.

Tanak makes a championship deciding completely stupid mistake when under no pressure and with instructions NOT to push.

But the estonian fanclub here blames Mikkelsen for losing 2 points on PS (which didn't matter as long as Neuville got beaten by Ogier) or bring up Lappi who last year (in a completely different point system) managed 4th with super-slow safe driving after many retired and crashing out completely on first day/stages both rallies before.

BB

Nation-level generalization here is pure stupidity.

Go back and re-read again what I wrote.

Greetings from Estonia.

[denkimi]

Hyundai should let their 3th and 4th drivers do the full season. More mileage is always better.

[Eli]

Comparing completely uncomparable. Point system, manu champs (all decided, due to Lappi and Suninen crashes last year).

This year on Friday Mikkelsen was told to push on a dirty road because of Neuville issues. Last year Lappi was told to drive as safe as possible to get to finish after Sordo and then Neuville crashed.

Btw. you did notice Lappi was actually behind Mikkelsen in Rally2 car most of Friday last year ?

What I'm trying to say is, putting Mikkelsen for the tarmac event was a stupid desciosion, maybe just maybe if they'd bring in him to other gravel events, say even Chile (as Lappi did crash there last year), might've meant the situation in Japan could've been avoided, that's all. And yes I did notice, but when it comes to tarmac, even though he's not a tarmac expert ( & neither is Mikkelsen), since the Rally1 cars have been introduced, he's managed to finish most of them (4/6) with 2 events on the podium. I mean, whoever thought of putting Mikkelsen in that 3rd car on tarmac after he's been out of the WRC for 4 years...

Also, I never once said it wasn't Ott's own mistake, I'm just saying, he wasn't the only one to have made one. You could tell after the crash he just wanted to burry his head in the sand (understanably).

[CeskyOndra]

A margin for error is so so small at this level, so we can't really blame Tanak here. Of course he made a costly mistake, but mistake happens and after all, he is just a human. No doubt it was fatal for Hyundai.

[rallyfiend]

A margin for error is so so small at this level, so we can't really blame Tanak here. Of course he made a costly mistake, but mistake happens and after all, he is just a human. No doubt it was fatal for Hyundai.

Isn't he literally the only one to blame?! He was 30 seconds in front and still pushing....

[deephouse]

Isn't he literally the only one to blame?! He was 30 seconds in front and still pushing....

It was obvious that he was after drivers title, despite little chances of achieving it, even more when Neuville end on 7th position on saturday and grab 4 provisional points. It was those facts that this crash was much more dramatical than it actualy was.

It was also Cyril's fault before rally. He was all over media that he will not interfere who will win the title, since it will be Hyundai driver (that was decided already at CER). And also that the priority for team is driver title. SO I guess Tanak did get wrong picture. Early in season he said that telling one driver to back for other is not necessary until one will have chance for the title.

Maybe now when both have title under belt, they could be more effective and maybe even Neuville could take a break on Ott, helping each other more, being real team-mates, so the 3rd driver will rarely be needed.

[EstWRC]

Isn't he literally the only one to blame?! He was 30 seconds in front and still pushing....

But you have to look the whole season and bigger picture where the things went wrong, not just one rally. It’s so easy to blame him at the moment cause it happened in the heat of the moment. Had that crash been in the middle of the season then no one wouldn’t care. The decision to put Mikkelsen as third car for tarmac events was utterly stupid since the beginning. We saw in Poland how good he did on gravel.

Ogier binned it for 3 rallies straight and I didn’t see that the fans painted him as such a villain and blamed him for everything as Tänak is being done now.

The reason that Hyundai had a chance at all for manu title were actually the crashes and point losses from Kalle and Ogier, otherwise they would have claimed it earlier already.

Look I’m not overly defending Tänak here, the zero points he got from Colin drivers ratings is fair, the mistake was very bad and costly but we can’t put all the blame on him IMO

[becher]

Isn't he literally the only one to blame?! He was 30 seconds in front and still pushing....

Yes, it was just a mistake that can happen, but because it is Tänak people have to find a reason for the mistake. Be it the gravel crew (which as Pluto said makes hardly any sense) or something else because it couldn't just be a honest slip up.

It is a bit of actio=reactio situation. Tänak fans are looking for a reason why it happened as a result others bring up that it was a costly mistake by him and now we are in an endless loop.

[becher]

The wohle Mikkelsen point loss in the PS vs. Tänak point loss on Sunday needs to be looked at with a bit of context I think.

As soon as Tänak was out, both Mikkelsen and Neuville just had to go as f* fast as possible no matter the consequences. It was a clear win it or bin it situation at that point.

But anyway Abitebul gets a lot of shit thrown at him for no reason, yet he put it perfectly how they lost the championship throughout the year.

[AE1WRC]

Ogier binned it for 3 rallies straight and I didn’t see that the fans painted him as such a villain and blamed him for everything as Tänak is being done now.

Most probably because he is an 8 time champ and considered one of the GOATs. GOATs can get away with everything.

[trykmann]

Most probably because he is an 8 time champ and considered one of the GOATs. GOATs can get away with everything.

In the end Toyota won the championship and it didn't happen on the last event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You have to bear in mind the circumstances in Japan (it being the last event) so everyone knew what they had to do to win the Manus.This wasnt the case when Ogier and Rovanpera made their Sunday mistakes on earlier events.

Tanak and Mikkelsen both knew the stakes were high and let the team down at the crucial moment.

[deephouse]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/did-tanak-save-toyotas-season/ latest podcast... I caught something regarding of Fourmaux and their commitment, but it's just some clues. They ask Cyril about it and he tell in a way they will indeed have 3rd full time driver, so it's first clue it is Adrien there. No surprise actualy. And then they mentioned that Hyundai could actually run 3 programmes simultaneously and that the rallying should be on the board. Well I hope.

It's kind of sad that you read on the other series that manufacurers are keep coming to them, despite the already have huge amount of them... Latest is Land Rover in Dakar 2026. And Cadillac in F1. And here... Here nothing... even those wjho are left are weighing on leaving or staying... very sad at the moment. I hope that this year's stories will somehow pump blood in recognition of the sport again.

[becher]

I just read Clarks driver ratings, I know he is biased towards certain drivers but "alternative facts" are a new low.

He claimed Ogier was the fastest man all weekend, someone should tell him that the second leg is not the whole weekend.

Also Katsutas raiting is the same as Ogier, Neuville and Evans for what reason?

[AE1WRC]

I just read Clarks driver ratings, I know he is biased towards certain drivers but "alternative facts" are a new low.

He claimed Ogier was the fastest man all weekend, someone should tell him that the second leg is not the whole weekend.

Also Katsutas raiting is the same as Ogier, Neuville and Evans for what reason?

Why are people taking Clark's ratings seriously ? I would rather read the ratings of Luke or David (both of them I really like to read their articles and listen them on the podcast)

[wyler]

[url]

It's kind of sad that you read on the other series that manufacurers are keep coming to them, despite the already have huge amount of them... Latest is Land Rover in Dakar 2026. And Cadillac in F1. And here... Here nothing... even those wjho are left are weighing on leaving or staying... very sad at the moment. I hope that this year's stories will somehow pump blood in recognition of the sport again.

that's not entirely true. wrc would have manufactures coming too with a bit of openness toward them. the management is trying but there's refusal also from the fans!!! there were lots of rumors about manufacturers ready to commit, but looking for some kind of ev (lancia, renault). now there's some kind of opening if the new reg rumors are true, but you can read already here on this forum people moaning about "a mess of a reg" and at the very same time "lack of new manus"...

[becher]

Why are people taking Clark's ratings seriously ? I would rather read the ratings of Luke or David (both of them I really like to read their articles and listen them on the podcast)

I'm not taking them properly serious but I was still surprised that he didn't even bother check stage times.

[deephouse]

that's not entirely true. wrc would have manufactures coming too with a bit of openness toward them. the management is trying but there's refusal also from the fans!!! there were lots of rumors about manufacturers ready to commit, but looking for some kind of ev (lancia, renault). now there's some kind of opening if the new reg rumors are true, but you can read already here on this forum people moaning about "a mess of a reg" and at the very same time "lack of new manus"...

Like that we have some say in all of this. Even when they give us that survey what future should look alike, they give only answers, that are good for them. And at the end screw that too. I don't agree at all that they are trying, well maybe now a little, but deciding the rules at the last moment, getting forward and backwards and again forwards without any real clue is clearly not trying.

[wyler]

Like that we have some say in all of this. Even when they give us that survey what future should look alike, they give only answers, that are good for them. And at the end screw that too. I don't agree at all that they are trying, well maybe now a little, but deciding the rules at the last moment, getting forward and backwards and again forwards without any real clue is clearly not trying.

don't get me wrong, I don't mean fans as me or you, I'm referring fans as a marketing body.