WRC Calendar 2025

[Eli]

Thought that with all the announcements we'll might as well have a thread for it, so for starters, here's what we have so far, courtesy of dirtfish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-the-wrc-2025-calendar-so-far/

[Tauri_J]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in november that its on the calendar for 25.

[EstWRC]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in november that its on the calendar for 25.

it was, by Mr.Aava himself but since that its been really quiet, so im not that sure actually if it will be in the calendar

[Eli]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in November that its on the calendar for 25.

Well they did mention Latvia was for this year only:"Latvia is in a near-identical situation to Poland: it has also been elevated from the ERC after a long stint at continental level, where it was known as Rally Liepāja, and was announced as an addition to the WRC calendar only for 2024. But that’s as far as its WRC stay is locked in for as it stands." so it's only reasonable Estonia will comeback in 2025.

[Tauri_J]

it was, by Mr.Aava himself but since that its been really quiet, so im not that sure actually if it will be in the calendar

Well its like 1 and half years away and before that they have ERC. So no need for major announcements/advertising etc before 24' edition is concluded

[Eli]

I just realized the Central European Rally hasn't got a contract for next year, does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar? or do they not have the funds to run it by themselves like they did for 17 years?

[WRCStan]

does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar?

I guess no. Is there any positive news or optimism about Germany is general?

[Backa]

I just realized the Central European Rally hasn't got a contract for next year, does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar? or do they not have the funds to run it by themselves like they did for 17 years?

I follow news about calendar rather regularly and didn't see anything about potential of Rally Deutschland coming back. If Central Europe will lose spot in calendar, Ireland seems to be most realistic replacement.

[deephouse]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

[WRCStan]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the rallying scene in the US. Similar things were said about F1 20 years ago, now they can't get enough of it.

[focus206]

Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the rallying scene in the US. Similar things were said about F1 20 years ago, now they can't get enough of it.

What's special about this? You can find bigger and better entry lists in tiny European countries. The typical American rally entry list is usually dominated by old Imprezas from the 90's.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/85808-snodrift-rally-2024/

[WRCStan]

What's special about this? You can find bigger and better entry lists in tiny European countries. The typical American rally entry list is usually dominated by old Imprezas from the 90's.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/85808-snodrift-rally-2024/

Show me the Chinese entry lists then we'll have the conversation.

[focus206]

Show me the Chinese entry lists then we'll have the conversation.

I wasn't the one who proposed China, but here you go. Looks marginally better and definitely bigger I'd say. And this is their second rally after 2 or 3 years of stoppage because of covid.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80997-china-rally-longyou-2023/

[WRCStan]

I wasn't the one who proposed China, but here you go. Looks marginally better and definitely bigger I'd say. And this is their second rally after 2 or 3 years of stoppage because of covid.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80997-china-rally-longyou-2023/

If you overlook the national/regional thing you can add another 23 to the Snodrift numbers = 43, versus 57 on snow in WRC Sweden, it's not bad. 100 Acre wood last week was 58. Olympus and Oregon get 70 odd, which is more likely comparable in stature to that FIA APRC round, which BTW, is also full of 90s cars.

But this is a pointless numberwang game. Safari this weekend proves you don't need a packed local entry list to get the WRC there. USA has a team organising an event and is talking with the promotor and FIA. That's what matters. Grassroots motorsport such as sprints are popular there, no point comparing it with Europe, and it's a popular WRC subscriber market. You cannot say nobody is interested in rally there - base point.

I don't know about the Chinese scene, but I will bet though that Chinese manufacturers would want an electric series for the global stage, but by the time that happens the tariffs and trade (cold) wars will have killed any slim chance.

[Backa]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

[Eli]

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

Does France still run an event in Corsica? And I’m aware Wales have the new asphalt rally but is the event from 2019 dead at this point? Deutschland’s rallye is as good as dead as well? But each have their reasons for not being run at this point in time.
China might be a dead end, but a rally in the US, I hope we’ll get to see, and then we’ll have better understanding of it’s impact on american rallying and interest in the WRC in the states.

[J4MIE]

The Rally GB event doesn’t run anymore. The was always other events using the forests at different times anyway.

[typhoon]

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

I'm sorry for being that honest, but entries etc are not key factor for hosting a WRC event. The 1 Million euros WRC calendar fee does. All the rest is just chit-chat.

As for the USA event, let's keep in mind Americans wants "extreme" and epic events. I can see it would work very well and if Ford will keep being involved (hopefully more extensively than it is now) that would work brilliantly.

[focus206]

I'm sorry for being that honest, but entries etc are not key factor for hosting a WRC event. The 1 Million euros WRC calendar fee does. All the rest is just chit-chat.

Everyone knows that. But that won't stop us from talking about how Saudi Arabia, a country with no rallies, doesn't deserve a spot on the calendar. Otherwise one just smiles and accepts silently anything they shovel at this sport.


As for the USA event, let's keep in mind Americans wants "extreme" and epic events. I can see it would work very well and if Ford will keep being involved (hopefully more extensively than it is now) that would work brilliantly.

Was the WRC Olympus Rally in the 80's extreme and epic? Is any of their national event even on par with random European national rallies? Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

[WRCStan]

Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

I agree through tv, but I wouldn't say that stood here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bldWv4fbnaY

[Backa]

Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

Depends what you're looking for. For people thirsty for wheel-to-wheel action and seeing as much event as possible when attending live, rally would be one of most boring motorsports to follow.

[typhoon]

Was the WRC Olympus Rally in the 80's extreme and epic? Is any of their national event even on par with random European national rallies? Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

You can't compare how a WRC rally was organized and arranged in the 80s and today. Look at Australia with the "jumps arena" in Bannister North, or the "purposely-built" Monte Lerno. In the USA they'll do a great job on this side, other than being super entertaining all around (service, fan areas, etc).

At NASCAR events you can play all day and never get bored, they worked hard on making interesting also on TV in recent years, with real-time distance, animations, etc.

It's gonna be held hopefully in 2026 and by then they'll be able to put up an epic spectacle.

I'd pay good money for a superspecial in Atlanta Mercedes stadium...

[deephouse]

Guys what about that idea. It's only thought, so no need to kill me instantly. What about if there were linked ralies. I mean, two on same continents or at least logisticaly most close. Way shorter, close on dates, maybe two week separation. Paraguay+Argentina, USA+Mexico, Finland+Sweden, New Zealand+Japan, Kenya+Saudi Arabia, Croatia+Italy and so on... That way they could include one or two more on calendar since there is so much interest of joining but not enough places.

[masa90]

In theory ok, but if the events are really close in time and location -> surely they will eat from each other a bit?

Atleast that is what few Estonians said in 22 Secto Rally. That they think rally Estonia suffers from being so close to Finland. People will choose either.

[deephouse]

In theory ok, but if the events are really close in time and location -> surely they will eat from each other a bit?

Atleast that is what few Estonians said in 22 Secto Rally. That they think rally Estonia suffers from being so close to Finland. People will choose either.

If rally Estonia would be completely different characterics of Finland, they would have plenty of visit. Why then Sweden and Finland don't clash being so close to each other? Or Spain (when there was on calendar) with Portugal, Italy with Croatia. They simply don't bring something different to the viewers. Finland will never be replaced, it's the mecca for rallying.

[masa90]

Yeah but Sweden is in February and Finland in august.

[Backa]

Guys what about that idea. It's only thought, so no need to kill me instantly. What about if there were linked ralies. I mean, two on same continents or at least logisticaly most close. Way shorter, close on dates, maybe two week separation. Paraguay+Argentina, USA+Mexico, Finland+Sweden, New Zealand+Japan, Kenya+Saudi Arabia, Croatia+Italy and so on... That way they could include one or two more on calendar since there is so much interest of joining but not enough places.

Similar approach exists to some extent, Poland-Latvia-Finland this year, Sardegna-Cyprus-Greece-Turkey in 2000s. It's good for teams logistics, but for hosts having another WRC rally two weeks earlier or later hurts their attendance and profitability. I guess for Finns, Estonians, Latvians and Poles it can be okayish due to solid rally fanbases there but in other places in the world it could be too costly for organizers to accept.

Anyway, I doubt there is any interests to grow calendar to more than 14 spots. Maybe if there will be some unexpected popularity boom, then we will see it but for now, even 14 rounds calendar can't materialize despite some attempts in last decade.

[AndyRAC]

14 rounds is asking for trouble. The sport can't sustain it; with only 2.5 Manufacturer teams in the top class even 12 is the absolute limit. The WEC doesn't have that many rounds, and they've got plenty of manufacturer teams.

[rallyfiend]

Teams are in WEC for Le Mans, not for WEC.

That’s why WEC can’t sustain more rounds. Few people care about the other rounds.

Maybe Spa…..

[Backa]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, travelling outside Europe increase costs.

[Eli]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, traveling outside Europe increase costs.

The nice thing about those seasons (2009-2011) was we got some new/old rallies back, and I am glad we got some new events in 2021, but I really do hope that for the sake of variety we'll get new/old events back next year (excluding Saudi Arabia, no offense, although I'm sure as a rally it would be a challenge).

[AndyRAC]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, travelling outside Europe increase costs.

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

[Backa]

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

"WRC Promoter had been working towards a 14-event schedule for 2024, but event director Simon Larkin has cited the need to bring more Rally1 cars into the championship as the reason for sticking with 13.

“Our plan is to stay with 13, and the reason to stay with 13 is that we believe it’s in the best interest of the championship that we, together with the manufacturers, are taking the best steps to increase the number of cars in the P1 (Priority 1 – manufacturer drivers) field,” Larkin told DirtFish."

So 14 could be doable, especially if 14th round would be in Europe but they consider 13 better for now.

Those in charge of WRC put ~13 round calendar for decades and sustain it even after 2008 crisis so calling 12 "absolute limit" and comparisions to much different WEC series are actually clueless.

[saco0o]

doubt. in f1 you have 34 cities fighting for a place on the 23 race calendar for 2025-26-27. is the same in wrc, with countries "fighting to join the calendar" or is it more like in rallycross, where they were going to dubai, south africa, hong kong because the traditional places were not seeing the value (and ticket sell) in the sport anymore? i understand paraguay may join because argentina will not have government money anymore. chile is also low on cash. not sure why estonia left wrc but i imagine is because of not having enough $ too. what is the situation in wrc? more like f1 (event promoters see value) or rallycross (event promoters dont see value so the series goes after saudi/chinese money)?

[becher]

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

Him being new to the forum has nothing to do with the topic.

[Eli]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-project-in-serious-trouble-time-is-running-out/

To no surprise to anyone.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-project-in-serious-trouble-time-is-running-out/

To no surprise to anyone.

Motorsport Ireland statement released today confirming that Ireland is no longer being considered to host a round of the FIA World Rally Championship in 2025. :(

Basically not enough time for the economic assessment to be done in order to provide the funding. :(

https://www.motorsportireland.com/Public/MI_News/2024/2025-WRC-Statement.aspx

[AndyRAC]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

[J4MIE]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

They’re probably the same ones that believe the insanely high economic impact claims…. and blaming the government for wanting a long time to check it all in much more detail.
Same people that have no clue about politics then complain about politicians.

[Jewy46]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

15 million for the 3 years is what was required

[AndyRAC]

So, 5 million per year.......Those angry fans need to direct their anger at the WRC Promoter..... The WRC isn't worth getting for that kind of money.....

[pedro16]

So, 5 million per year.......Those angry fans need to direct their anger at the WRC Promoter..... The WRC isn't worth getting for that kind of money.....

I believe the fee is only a part of that amount. It costs money to organize an event of this dimension, and sponsorships don't cover everything.

[Eli]

Disappointed but not surprised, I hope CER will at least get to retain its slot.

[satnav]

The amount requested by MI from the Irish government was 5 million Euro for each of the 3 years 15 Million in total, when you read the whole statement you can see that the Government were not really interested in backing a motorsport event, and when you think back to Bobby Willis's try to have Rally NI, the UK Government was asked for 2 Million Pounds at that time and side stepped the request both times.
Not surprised at all, i'd have been more surprised if the money would have been made available..

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-still-in-contention-for-wrc-2026-slot/

They will try again for 2026, but tbh this part caught my interest: "Paraguay is known to be one of the countries vying for one of those slots, though DirtFish understands its odds of making the calendar as soon as 2025 are also in question. Saudi Arabia is believed to be another event hoping to step up to next year’s WRC calendar." & Specifically about Paraguay. At the moment it seems only the Canary Islands & Saudi Arabia will be the new additions for next year.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-needs-a-plan-b-for-its-wrc-bid/

Some nice insight on how difficult it is to get funding for a WRC event .

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2025-calendar-puzzle-is-falling-into-place/

Like it’s been discussed here before it’s a matter of where will Rally Croatia will be held next year and not if and it seems CER is confirmed for it’s third year in a row.

[EstWRC]

Rally Croatia is a must. It’s a fantastic event.

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

[Backa]

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

That's little surprising, for me Croatia in EA WRC is disappointing and feels rather dull. It's partially due to too clean and smooth tarmac and partially due to Bliznec-Pila being weird choice for representing that rally. Plenty of Croatian stages are run across some villages while stage chosen for game is pretty much all forest with too much hairpins.

Agree it's great Croatia stays in calendar. Estonia getting back to calendar is also nice thing, although I prefer if it would rotate with Poland instead of Latvia. Maybe I will change my opinion after seeing WRC1 cars on Latvian roads but imo Poland and Estonia have more fun stages.

[philippebugalski]

That's little surprising, for me Croatia in EA WRC is disappointing and feels rather dull. It's partially due to too clean and smooth tarmac and partially due to Bliznec-Pila being weird choice for representing that rally. Plenty of Croatian stages are run across some villages while stage chosen for game is pretty much all forest with too much hairpins.

Agree it's great Croatia stays in calendar. Estonia getting back to calendar is also nice thing, although I prefer if it would rotate with Poland instead of Latvia. Maybe I will change my opinion after seeing WRC1 cars on Latvian roads but imo Poland and Estonia have more fun stages.

I would 100% agree that EA WRC Croatia is dull and does not represent the real unique stlye of our event. Every single stage there is includes roads from Medvednica mountain climbing to the top. In 2021 Croatia Rally shakedown and 2 stages where held there so basically EA made whole stage package around that which is disappointing cause in 2022 and 2023 rally did not conclude any of those stages.
Still every stage is linked to the same road climbing the same mountain making it 100% not accurate with real life stages and it's original names.

Would like to see them change it and make it accurate.

Down to the real event I'm rooting for it to be held with the base in Zagreb like it is now and not moving to the coastline.

[Sardalense]

Rally Croatia is a must. It’s a fantastic event.

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

Last year I had the chance to drive the stages 2/1.5 hours before the first cars. Road closed, full throtle, no pace notes, just driving. It was great. Great stages. Big surprise for me because I have to be honest, Croatia was not one of my favourite events. At some point someone asked me if I was a rally driver and I said no, I was just having fun!

[Andre Oliveira]

Portugal confirmed in 2025 calendar. Contract sign today afternoon.

[Eli]

Portugal confirmed in 2025 calendar. Contract sign today afternoon.

No surprises there, do you know if it was a multi-year deal or just for 2025?

[typhoon]

No surprises there, do you know if it was a multi-year deal or just for 2025?

Portugal had a clause to extend by 1 year to 2025.

[Backa]

Hopefully next year they will sign multi-year extenstion. WRC lost too many classics already.

[djip]

Hopefully next year they will sign multi-year extenstion. WRC lost too many classics already.

And Portugal is way better than Sardinia ...

[Backa]

Sardinia is weird one. I don't hate it but no matter if I think about southern european gravel rounds (Portugal, Greece), Italy (San Remo), or Mediterranean islands (Corsica), Sardinia is in shadow of other locations.

[TypeR]

Official: Rally Portugal confirmed for 2025 and 2026!

[GigiGalliNo1]

This will be the final rally in Sardegna... it's moving to the mainland but forget which region.

***Please note, this is something I was told during Portugal, rumour or true - thought to share it here.

Don't be hurt if you thought this was real and not speculation.

[Eli]

This will be the final rally in Sardegna... it's moving to the mainland but forget which region.

Seriously?? Is it also moving back to Tarmac??

[GigiGalliNo1]

That is what I've been told.

[deephouse]

San remo perhaps?

[wyler]

San remo perhaps?

more likely extending the erc roma rally to the gravel roads toward tuscany

[GigiGalliNo1]

At 19:15 Saturday, the FIA are announcing a new WRC event for 2025 at Sardegna.

The event, I don't know - perhaps Paraguay.

[Eli]

At 19:15 Saturday, the FIA are announcing a new WRC event for 2025 at Sardegna.

The event, I don't know - perhaps Paraguay.

Either Paraguay or Saudi Arabia.

[pedro16]

Either Paraguay or Saudi Arabia.

It's Saudi Arabia

2531

[Eli]

It's Saudi Arabia

2531

Guess it was bound to join sooner rather than later, I bet they’ll run it as the season finale after Japan in November.

[Dimitris]

There's a Hyundai in Sardegna with Rally Saudi Arabia stickers on it, and also there's a Saudi prince there for the unveiling

https://x.com/PowerslideMedia/status/1796909036970897518

[WRCStan]

Looking forward to this but I hope there's some detail in this announcement beyond an 'agreement in principle'. Give us HQ, surface, location, dates.

[Eli]

Looking forward to this but I hope there's some detail in this announcement beyond an 'agreement in principle'. Give us HQ, surface, location, dates.

Probably end of November so it won't be too hot and on Gravel, exact details we'll probably only find out towards 2025.

[Eli]

10 year deal!

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/saudi-arabia-confirmed-as-wrc-round-for-2025/

[PLuto]

Money rules...

[Eli]

Money rules...

Or as Hamilton said a while back, Ca$h is King.

[Lead]

Wow

[WRCStan]

So,

Jeddah Base
Day in the Mountains
Day in a Volcano region
Day of 'formed' sandy roads in the desert.

Set to be the last of 14 rounds for 5 years at least.

That's something at least.

[jonkka]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

[Eli]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

who can they boot? Canary will replace Poland, Estonia for Latvia, Croatia stays, I think only Chile needs to sign for next year. Unless with all the monkey business in Kenya after this year will see the door but I doubt they would like to add another region to get rid of another.

[saco0o]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

is a new location in Italia confirmed to replace Sardegna already? otherwise, theres your "exchange", maybe?

[Backa]

Maybe Central Europe Rally is at risk? Especially if Sardegna will be replaced by Tarmac rally like Roma Capitale. WRC never had calendar with 6 tarmac rallies if I am not mistaken.

Or maybe influx of cash from Saudis finally allow WRC to successfully organize 14-event season.

[Myrvold]

Lovely.

Another motorsport-event in a place I would be happily jailed, flogged, whatever just for being alive. ffs.

[J4MIE]

I would imagine the Saudi deal will probably pay for teams transportation, travel etc, they can afford it.

[J4MIE]

If anyone is interested in giving it a read, I happened upon the previous (2020-2022) Sardinia deal while googling for other stuff.

https://www.aci.it/laci/la-federazione/amministrazione-trasparente/archiviofile/aci/utente1889/EVENT%20PROMOTION%20AGREEMENT.pdf

[Kras]

Neuville gonna win sunday beacuse of dust 🤣

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lovely.

Another motorsport-event in a place I would be happily jailed, flogged, whatever just for being alive. ffs.

What have you done?

[Sal yet again]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

[Franky]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

A 10 year deal for an event that hasn't even ran yet ;) At least they've got money to hire people to make something happen.

[Eli]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

Everything is possible when you're the FIA & WRC promoter, apart from sorting basic stuff out and getting another manufacturer invloved in the sport, that's a bit too much for them.

[J4MIE]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

[Eli]

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

They did say they’ll be in the MERC at the beginning of next year.

Also regarding the rally (& the corruption behind it):
https://yle.fi/a/74-20091834

[Sulland]

Last version in a log line of sport-washing events in that region.
Why do they get event after event, the people that decide need to look behind the facade!


It's Saudi Arabia

2531

[J4MIE]

They did say they’ll be in the MERC at the beginning of next year.

Also regarding the rally (& the corruption behind it):
https://yle.fi/a/74-20091834

Yes March will be candidate/MERC event, full event in November.

[J4MIE]

Last version in a log line of sport-washing events in that region.
Why do they get event after event, the people that decide need to look behind the facade!

Money talks…

[WRCStan]

There's two points to make here people aren't getting: 1) Saudi is experiencing growth, diversification, investment and social change. Europe has peaked and is facing decline. 2) It's a commercial World series, not a European sport, and it's in decline which is linked to being too European. Those are at the crux of this deal.

Within this series the UK, France, Germany, Spain (soon Italy ?), have all lost their events before Saudi was even announced, and commercial attempts are struggling to gain feasibility. Enough remain, some at a cost for the Promotor, but still, Saudi is expanding the WRC calendar and won't be taking another's slot. 10 years is unprecedented, but it may just have been necessary to save the series. It may have been enough to kill the urgency of the changes by the working group. It may have enabled Hyundai to remain, or the promoter's ability to field them or other participants. OK, the FIA could try going to a Rally2 privateer, non-commercial, European based series instead - but it has chosen not to do that.

We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

[focus206]

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

As far as I know, Saudi Arabia hosted one single MERC in its history, in 2010.

[focus206]

2) It's a commercial World series, not a European sport, and it's in decline which is linked to being too European. Those are at the crux of this deal.

I disagree. Only few fans who are obsessed with "too much Europe, we need to go to USA/India/Saudi etc."
Sure, the manufacturers could like one or two more rallies in their own key markets, but after that they'd soon complain about the series being too expensive because it goes to the four corners of the map - and probably the lack of visibility in those new countries, because too few people care to begin with.
Rallying is a European sport whether one likes it or not, and it's called world championship because it goes to the best international rallies around the globe, which include extra European events like Safari, NZ etc... lower the standard of those extra European events and even less people will care.



Within this series the UK, France, Germany, Spain (soon Italy ?), have all lost their events before Saudi was even announced,


France has Monte, Germany has CER, Spain will have Canarias, maybe Italy will have Roma, all very popular rallies...



We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

I don't particularly care for what the Saudi law is. I have my doubts they can organize a decent rally, both in terms of spectacle and the organization itself. They barely ever hosted a MERC rally, and have you ever seen footage of MERC rallies? For the vast majority a borefest in flat, barren landscape. IF they can put up a nice rally then nice, but signing a 10 years contract is silly. We all know, money talks.
Also that's such a bad mentality in my opinion. Complaining is the first step to change. Nobody ever complains, nothing ever changes, unless the ones above decide so. A bit like saying to all the fans who want 100 events outside of Europe to leave because they're insignificant and don't belong to such an European sport.

[Backa]

Complaining is the first step to change.

Sometimes. Quite often complaining is done instead of making first steps to change things, kind of shifting-blame excuse.

Even if Saudi round would be boring and/or poorly organized, for WRC and teams it probably will be financially beneficial anyway and it can lead to fans being less depressed about state of this series as a whole. Saudis tend to overpaid in sports.

MERC rallies in Kuwait or Qatar are flat borefests but in contrast to them, Saudi Arabia is not all flat desert. They have some roads similar to those used in Jordan Rally.

[AndersX]

Saudi landscape is stunning, we all have seen that in Dakar. From Picture Perfect point of view - will be good. Diversity of scenery - also will be good. Might even collect many spectators. Might even be the most spectator friendly event due to the wide access from everywhere with the proper car. Moral aspect is different matter here. We have seen that in FIA this part had never been an issue. Obviously Saudi investment will release and ease up some existential pressure of this beautiful motorsport. Let us wait and see where all this goes. I guess they will hire some European rally organization team to run the event.

[Sal yet again]

Middle Eastern money though has been around for a while and didnt hear of that many people walking away when Citroen were backed by Abu Dhabi and Ford by Qatar both countries with issues around rights for certain parts of society. FFS the WRC went to China in the past!

I share some of the disappointment that has been expressed elsewhere but we have an FIA President from that part of the world and a promoter chasing $ over heritage so it was inevitable.

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's funny that I've had a couple discussions you could say, on social media with people who complain that Saudi is in. Boycott this, won't support that, I'm out (!) and Money talks etc. And how other countries should have the event over Saudi due to their human rights, women's rights etc.

Since 2018, the Kingdom has progressed and changed. Fact. Yes there might be some topics of cultural differences ie Death penalty for example for crimes - but you know, there still are other places in the world for example Indonesia, which everyone flocks to Bali for holidays or is seen as one of the worlds top destinations.

K.S.A is run with a religious rule but is becoming lenient. Many countries are strict with law, you wouldn't go to Singapore and chew gum would you? It is a crime but no one is up in arms over this. Or visiting South East Asia and poking at Royal members...

Others I've discussed with have mentioned that Paraguay should be in the calendar. But what people don't know is that corruption remains widespread as well as organized crime, environmental destruction, systemic discrimination damage to the rights of rural and Indigenous populations continues to occur. Poverty and gender-based discrimination limits rights of women and children is going on as well.

Australia? Lack of government (federal and local) support for (motor) sporting that includes local population/residents and tax payers. Don't forget sponsors don't seem to have any interest in major sporting events or NZ for a world scale event unlike F1. Australians prefer football, soccer, tennis - you now 'athlete' physical sport.

I would categorise this paragraph under "Human Rights" be present or from the past:

Please don't get me started on what really is going on in Australia. There is no indigenous voice in government that is acknowledged. And no apology unlike Canada to it's indigenous people for when the British came, colonised, raped women, stole children and shipped them off to other parts of the country to educate them to be more "white" and never see their families again. Recently, a national vote ended up in disaster with a massive NO. Australia is one of the most diverse nations in the world yet is systematically Racist. We also have a housing shortage where yes, people are living in their cars, or tents in parks, in cities; have no rental homes or tenancies available and when they are available - the prices are over more than double what they were pre-2020. So completely unaffordable. You know how Americans live in carparks... same here! There is a high rate of Domestic Violence which of late, is becoming more of an issue than anything else.

How can a nation rich in resources and money treat its people, native or current immigrants so poorly? People speak of human rights... basic human rights.

Someone name me a country where there is no crime, housing problems, politics, corruption, funding, support and what some might call "Sport Washing".

If you really look hard, you'll see, no country or region is has clean hands.

[focus206]

Saudi landscape is stunning, we all have seen that in Dakar. From Picture Perfect point of view - will be good. Diversity of scenery - also will be good.

Yes, but WRC doesn't go on the dunes of the Empty Quarter. How are their gravel roads that are suitable for a rally car? Hard to tell, because they don't even have a MERC round to take as example. Jordan Rally wasn't too bad, but most of MERC rallies I've seen footage of are very, very boring.

[Franky]

Weren't Jordan's roads built for the rally?

[Eli]

Yes, but WRC doesn't go on the dunes of the Empty Quarter. How are their gravel roads that are suitable for a rally car? Hard to tell, because they don't even have a MERC round to take as example. Jordan Rally wasn't too bad, but most of MERC rallies I've seen footage of are very, very boring.

Emm, let me remind you the Cyprus Rally is also part of the championship and the last thing you can say about it is ‘boring’.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Weren't Jordan's roads built for the rally?

Same with Mexico, if you didn't know!

[focus206]

Emm, let me remind you the Cyprus Rally is also part of the championship and the last thing you can say about it is ‘boring’.

But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that. Lebanon is also in MERC and it's a rather twisty asphalt rally, also not in consideration. The typical MERC rallies (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait etc.) are mostly flat roads in barren landscape.

[Eli]

But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that. Lebanon is also in MERC and it's a rather twisty asphalt rally, also not in consideration. The typical MERC rallies (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait etc.) are mostly flat roads in barren landscape.

It’s a shame that it isn’t; for the less than 10 years that it ran it was a joy to watch.

[jonkka]

but still, Saudi is expanding the WRC calendar and won't be taking another's slot.

Source for this, please?

[Franky]

Same with Mexico, if you didn't know!

That I don't remember. But purpose built roads aren't an issue for me ;)

[Myrvold]

We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

I haven't watched any of the F1 races in Saudi. I have not watched FE there, nor "Dakar". I will happily skip the WRC event there as well, even though I've watched every stage from rallies on rally.tv (or WRC + / All Live) for a while now. Not all live, but also re-live.

Doesn't really have to be "political" in that sense either. For me it is quite simple. I've bought an apartment and a double bed together with another dude. That's enough to get me jailed. That's just not something I can ignore.

As a political-ish thing. There's still this feeling among many racers and kids in karting/crosskart that not being straight means you cannot succeed in motorsport. I do know one or more, that decided to "live hetero" as they feel that just being who they really are will remove all chances of keeping a seat. Or those who simply just stop racing/rallying due to it.
While it is more of a circuit racing thing, with the wag-cams and "girlfriend of" stuff, which I don't get why is a thing, I watch for the motorsport, not to look at people, it makes it quite clear that if a driver ends up with a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. That will be an issue at certain events. So, don't be who you are to participate is a great thing to promote.

[Rallyper]

So now politics has been an component in discussions on where to have rallies or not...

I don´t like it...

I know, I know, money rules. And guys in the top are like politicians for sure. To me quality of event is the importance not to rule out.

[WRCStan]

Source for this, please?

"Rally Saudi Arabia is set to host the final round of next year’s expected 14-event championship in November and could be set to hold that berth for the next five years at least."

Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/)

Calendar should be done, TH at Autosport part of the circus. I trust this until it's proven wrong not right.

[steve.mandzij]

Personally I'm more disappointed that Japan isn't the last rally of the season anymore. Controversial, I guess, but I love Japan and it's crazy weather and narrow roads, and I also enjoyed that the first and last rallies of the season were both held on tarmac. It was good while it lasted...

[Eli]

Personally I'm more disappointed that Japan isn't the last rally of the season anymore. Controversial, I guess, but I love Japan and it's crazy weather and narrow roads, and I also enjoyed that the first and last rallies of the season were both held on tarmac. It was good while it lasted...

I'm more disapointed that Japan didn't capatlize on the fact it's a tarmac event and gave us night stages (and lots of them), which would be wayyyy more convinenet for every one watching in the old continent, espcially when you consider it being the season finale.

[WRCStan]

Rallying is a European sport whether one likes it or not

Agree in the main, however I make a distinction between the sport and the series, and I meant that the series is in decline because of being too linked to Europe, not the sport. That has nothing to do with any fan's opinion.



France has Monte, Germany has CER, Spain will have Canarias, maybe Italy will have Roma, all very popular rallies...

ACM has Monte and is in WRC for free/super low fee which the promoter has to compensate somewhere else. Germany has 1/3rd of CER and I'm not convinced it's a great earner for promoter either with being local. Canarias is a local organiser - I admit I don't know the support details on this for WRC, let's hope it lasts. Ireland also couldn't get theirs to pay. It's not a point about physical location - it's about decline of the ASN's abilities or desire to stage events like how it was in the past up until recent years.


Also that's such a bad mentality in my opinion. Complaining is the first step to change. Nobody ever complains, nothing ever changes, unless the ones above decide so.

This is how I don't think people are getting my 2) point. You have no right to force change, it's not a democracy, you're not a shareholder. You will only ever be a consumer until the day you stop consuming. If you let the payment go through but signal you're not buying into it - and to the wrong people - you're a hypocrite.

[jonkka]

"Rally Saudi Arabia is set to host the final round of next year’s expected 14-event championship in November and could be set to hold that berth for the next five years at least."

Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/)

Calendar should be done, TH at Autosport part of the circus. I trust this until it's proven wrong not right.

Given how late calendars for past two years have been published, I doubt that calendar is anywhere near done as we speak. It's good of you to have so much trust, I only believe in things when I see them and even then half of what I see are likely to be hoaxes. Anyway, thanks for source, I'll be keeping an eye on this matter.

[rallyfiend]

Agree in the main, however I make a distinction between the sport and the series, and I meant that the series is in decline because of being too linked to Europe, not the sport. That has nothing to do with any fan's opinion.



Can I ask what your basis for saying the 'series is in decline'? I just curious.

Is it just a judgement based purely because of 8 - 10 factory entered cars? Or is it evidence on audience / financial etc?

Because WRC2 seems to be booming, so is JWRC, and I don't see any evidence of decline in spectators numbers.....

[WRCStan]

Can I ask what your basis for saying the 'series is in decline'? I just curious.

Is it just a judgement based purely because of 8 - 10 factory entered cars? Or is it evidence on audience / financial etc?

Because WRC2 seems to be booming, so is JWRC, and I don't see any evidence of decline in spectators numbers.....

WRC2 and JWRC aren't significant earners for the series - JWRC isn't even WRC Promoter's and 4 of those entries are backed by FIA. At least in theory.

Something I keep coming back to in multiple threads is that there is no series without the Rally1 class. Whether that's big money manufacturers as tradition, the promotor's own entries in an FIA branded car with other revenue, or somewhere in between like now.

(European) Manufacturers don't want to take part.
(European) Rallies can't or don't want to take part.
('' '') World Champions are reluctant to take part.

If the promoter has to stage the full show in the future - that is provide the cars, drivers and stages - it needs the revenue from other sources.

Where some European state ASNs are backing entries now in any class - how long can it realistically continue when the outlook doesn't look good?

[Steve Boyd]

Ireland back as a possibility for 2026?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/articles/cz55pkmyp8ro

[er88]

Ireland back as a possibility for 2026?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/articles/cz55pkmyp8ro
Oh look, another article on a potential round in Ireland. Only heard similar articles for the past 4years or so....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oh look, another article on a potential round in Ireland. Only heard similar articles for the past 4years or so....

Oh look another chance for er88 to slap down any positivity concerning the UK / Ireland chances.

At least the Irish are seriously trying and there is a real.possibility the WRC may come. The MI Rally Academy is doing well by supporting their drivers and the whole scene there is desperate to get the WRC back.

[J4MIE]

Oh look another chance for er88 to slap down any positivity concerning the UK / Ireland chances.

At least the Irish are seriously trying and there is a real.possibility the WRC may come. The MI Rally Academy is doing well by supporting their drivers and the whole scene there is desperate to get the WRC back.

Not sure I see the positivity - these checks were meant to have been don's before the last decision.
A lot of young Irish are funded by a very very very very very (very) rich individual, not by the sport in Ireland itself.

[Myrvold]

So now politics has been an component in discussions on where to have rallies or not...

I don´t like it...

I know, I know, money rules. And guys in the top are like politicians for sure. To me quality of event is the importance not to rule out.

When any championship decides to have a round/event at a place where their competitors might be at risk just by, well, being alive. That's what happens.

What an image to send to youngsters as well. Rally, an inclusive sport, open for anyone. Just not WRC, or at least, if you happen to have a boyfriend as a male driver, don't bring him to that event, and if you must. Don't hold hands or anything. Refrain from emotions if you win. Meh.

[J4MIE]

When any championship decides to have a round/event at a place where their competitors might be at risk just by, well, being alive. That's what happens.

What an image to send to youngsters as well. Rally, an inclusive sport, open for anyone. Just not WRC, or at least, if you happen to have a boyfriend as a male driver, don't bring him to that event, and if you must. Don't hold hands or anything. Refrain from emotions if you win. Meh.

You can’t change anything by sniping from the outside and sneering in.

Sounds like you need to read the latest travel advice to the country, and take into account their laws & cultures, that is part of what world travel is all about, right?

[Steve Boyd]

So, if a male driver has a female co-driver that isn't his wife, does her father or brother have to ride in the back with the spare wheels?

[J4MIE]

So, if a male driver has a female co-driver that isn't his wife, does her father or brother have to ride in the back with the spare wheels?

Several female competitors in Dakar (both drivers and co-drivers) - it’s not an issue.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not sure I see the positivity - these checks were meant to have been done before the last decision.

A lot of young Irish are funded by a very very very very very (very) rich individual, not by the sport in Ireland itself.

It wasnt possible in the timeframe, but that means it wasnt actually refused.

IMO there is a much better chance of success in the Rep of Ireland than there was in N.Ireland which had no proper Govt as well as a very tight budget.

And even if there is a wealthy benefactor for some drivers there, MI Rally Academy is still helping and much so than UK Motorsport ever does.

[J4MIE]

It wasnt possible in the timeframe, but that means it wasnt actually refused.

IMO there is a much better chance of success in the Rep of Ireland than there was in N.Ireland which had no proper Govt as well as a very tight budget.

And even if there is a wealthy benefactor for some drivers there, MI Rally Academy is still helping and much so than UK Motorsport ever does.

MI academy is funded by the same person.

And correct - the previous decision wasn’t refused, it was because the government hadn’t looked at the details so it all fell apart.

[Franky]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

John Coyne.

[satnav]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

It's no mystery, it's well known that John has funded the Billy Coleman award and also the Academy and still does, which i think is a great credit to all involved.

https://motorsportireland.com/Public/Public/AboutUs/Motorsport_Ireland_Rally_Academy.aspx

https://www.mirallyacademy.ie/

As for the Rally Ireland episode now that's a whole different scenario, but at least they are trying which is a lot more than can be said for the MSA

[Myrvold]

You can’t change anything by sniping from the outside and sneering in.

Sounds like you need to read the latest travel advice to the country, and take into account their laws & cultures, that is part of what world travel is all about, right?

Yes, I know that they say LGBT-tourists are welcome. It also is noted that Saudi Arabia has some of the strictest anti-LGBTQ+ laws in the world, where same-sex sexual acts and identifying as LGBTQ+ are punishable by death, lifetime prison sentences, flogging, and chemical castration.
That's not a place I would spend any money in. I've lost friends due to not feeling accepted, I know of racers that doesn't want to be honest, as they fear it will end their career. I cannot look at that, and with a good conscience pretend it's all fine because they would like my money.