WRC control tyre supplyer

[Sulland]

So for tyre we have basically had Michelin or Pirelli for many years, ever since FIA restricted teams to one brand.
DMack and MRT have tried to get the contract with FIA for the top class, but not succeeded.

Now we will get a new company, Hankook coming in.
Lets see how their testing towards next year will happen, and what the drivers feel about them.

Always cool with something new, even if I would like to have tyres from more than one manufacturer in all classes in WRC. At least for WRC2 and 3, where ryre manus could pay for cars ala DMack and MRT.

Will Hankook be a success, and maybe bring something new into the sport?

[doubled1978]

I hope so, it usually throws a few spanner’s in the works when things like this change.
i just hope the tyres are reliable in the sense that we don’t see a whole host of punctures that make the events a lottery. The actual performance of the tyres is secondary really, it doesn’t matter if they aren’t as ‘fast’ as Pirelli or Michelin, so long as they are reliable.

[fiscorpun]

ERC with Tire War >> WRC spec tires

[seb_sh]

ERC with Tire War >> WRC spec tires

Not really, it's a source of spending and inequality and if you're on the "wrong" tyre you're screwed. It kind of works in customer series like ERC but for top level championships I think it's a thing of the past. The only other championship that has it that I can think of is SuperGT in Japan.

[doubled1978]

Not really, it's a source of spending and inequality and if you're on the "wrong" tyre you're screwed. It kind of works in customer series like ERC but for top level championships I think it's a thing of the past. The only other championship that has it that I can think of is SuperGT in Japan.

Exactly, tyre wars are a thing of the past generally due to the costs involved.

[AndyRAC]

No top tier series should have a single tyre supplier....otherwise you may as well use a single car and be done with it. Adding a mix of tyres just adds more variables.....which I don't have a problem with. There was a time when we had Michelin v Pirelli, and the latter were useless on dry Tarmac, but if it was wet, they were the tyres to be on.......

[doubled1978]

No top tier series should have a single tyre supplier....otherwise you may as well use a single car and be done with it. Adding a mix of tyres just adds more variables.....which I don't have a problem with. There was a time when we had Michelin v Pirelli, and the latter were useless on dry Tarmac, but if it was wet, they were the tyres to be on.......

Every top tier series except SuperGT disagrees with you. Turns out car manufactures don’t want their multi million motorsport programme to live or die on the capability of their tyre supplier.
You also get preferred teams within brands, Ferraris Bridgestones were very different to those used by the likes of Jordan for instance, and I bet the same thing was going on in rallying.

[typhoon]

There was a time when we had Michelin v Pirelli, and the latter were useless on dry Tarmac, but if it was wet, they were the tyres to be on.......

As a simple fan I'd totally agree with it, but this is exactly a situation in which a Board wouldn't ever want to deal with. Without the manufacturers, you'd get 60% less marketing and promotion of the championship, let's always keep this in mind!

Imagine losing the championship because you screwed the last rally due to the tyres, so it's not the team's fault or something in their hands. How would you explain it to few people that gave you like 80M euros (see Hyundai) and you flushed them into the toilet because of a partner?

[Andre Oliveira]

Obligation to national ones is non sense.

[Mirek]

Every top tier series except SuperGT disagrees with you. Turns out car manufactures don’t want their multi million motorsport programme to live or die on the capability of their tyre supplier.
You also get preferred teams within brands, Ferraris Bridgestones were very different to those used by the likes of Jordan for instance, and I bet the same thing was going on in rallying.

This is all a principal question and a very interesting one because it's one which will always divide people. Generally there are two major directions which one can take.

The first one is to make all condition for the drivers (crews) as even as possible by extreme restriction of the rules. By this you can achieve maximum weight of the crew skills in the overall result. In general it means to follow athletic sports and try to turn motorsport into human-only performance and by that also limit the vehicle to a simple tool - like shoes, skates, balls or hockey sticks. This is currect WRC.

The second option is to go back to the essence of motorsport which didn't start as a competition of drivers (crews) but as a competition of machines. It's obvious that the more freedom of rules you give the higher is the weight of the machine performance in the overall result. This is where crazy engineering ideas appear and win races - something lost in rallying of the 80'. I think that most technical people would prefer more freedom of rules, not only about tyres but also about engines, suspension, you name it. The excitement coming from the technical development used to be part of the game but it's long gone. To be honest I am not interested in today's searching for which team used 0,5° larger castor or a slightly more angled wing leading edge on otherwise completely same machines.

Now back to the tyres. You present something as a pure risk but in the same time it's also a potentional advantage. You can loose but just like that you can win, and win a lot. And it's not in any way a lottery. The manufacturers know how to measure performance and how to select their suppliers. In the end they can throw whatever shit on the tyre manufacturers but the selection is their choice. Having a single supplier is easy for everyone but it removes part of the competition which some other people would like to see.

[Steve Boyd]

The "free market" option sounds great to begin with but it very quickly turns into a money battle and becomes very expensive for the tyre manufacturer who wants to win and for any team that has to buy their tyres to keep up with the team with a sponsorship deal from the best manufacturer. Not many tyre manufacturers these days are prepared to get into that kind of financial battle. Not all of them were even prepared to get into the bidding war for the WRC contract. If there was some way of making all teams source their tyres on the open market rather than through deals with the tyre makers it might work but even then how do you ensure that somebody doesn't get tyres with "trick" compounds to give them an advantage as has happened in saloon car racing in the past.

[doubled1978]

This is all a principal question and a very interesting one because it's one which will always divide people. Generally there are two major directions which one can take.

The first one is to make all condition for the drivers (crews) as even as possible by extreme restriction of the rules. By this you can achieve maximum weight of the crew skills in the overall result. In general it means to follow athletic sports and try to turn motorsport into human-only performance and by that also limit the vehicle to a simple tool - like shoes, skates, balls or hockey sticks. This is currect WRC.

The second option is to go back to the essence of motorsport which didn't start as a competition of drivers (crews) but as a competition of machines. It's obvious that the more freedom of rules you give the higher is the weight of the machine performance in the overall result. This is where crazy engineering ideas appear and win races - something lost in rallying of the 80'. I think that most technical people would prefer more freedom of rules, not only about tyres but also about engines, suspension, you name it. The excitement coming from the technical development used to be part of the game but it's long gone. To be honest I am not interested in today's searching for which team used 0,5° larger castor or a slightly more angled wing leading edge on otherwise completely same machines.

Now back to the tyres. You present something as a pure risk but in the same time it's also a potentional advantage. You can loose but just like that you can win, and win a lot. And it's not in any way a lottery. The manufacturers know how to measure performance and how to select their suppliers. In the end they can throw whatever shit on the tyre manufacturers but the selection is their choice. Having a single supplier is easy for everyone but it removes part of the competition which some other people would like to see.

Of course, I completely agree that there is always the possibility of the upside as well as the downside.
However, I don’t think it will ever happen again in the main series because the tyre supply contract is a sponsorship and revenue stream for the series they support. If you have open tyres, the teams take the benefit of free tyres, whereas now the teams pay and the tyre manufacturer pays the series. Rallying has no doubt monetised the fuel supply as well with P1, rather than have each team with their own fuel suppliers.
I personally like the technical freedom route for myself, but as the promoter of a series you will surely want the performance of the cars as close as possible with less variables that can lead to one team having a large advantage.
That is the modern way of thinking rather than outright open competition.

[fiscorpun]

Arent the tire rules in SuperGT similar to engines and chassis? "You can build stuff inside these specs to ensure a certain parity"...?

[Sulland]

Under the current rwgulations, what possibilities has the newcomer Hankook have to test their development tyres in anger for the top 3 carclasses i WRC?

Will they have to use ERC for rally2 and 3, and a mule for rally1, or are there loopholes?

[AMSS]

Under the current rwgulations, what possibilities has the newcomer Hankook have to test their development tyres in anger for the top 3 carclasses i WRC?

Will they have to use ERC for rally2 and 3, and a mule for rally1, or are there loopholes?

I`m not sure but at least in the past the FIA has allowed for extra test days to the teams when a new controlled tire manufacturer arrives

[AMSS]

Under the current rwgulations, what possibilities has the newcomer Hankook have to test their development tyres in anger for the top 3 carclasses i WRC?

Will they have to use ERC for rally2 and 3, and a mule for rally1, or are there loopholes?

I`m not sure but at least in the past the FIA has allowed for extra test days to the Rally 1/WRC teams when a new controlled tire manufacturer arrives. the lower categories don`t have any testing restrictions so they can test how much they want

[PLuto]

Some WRC teams were testing Hankook tyres, so development is in progress.

[Sulland]

What are the first impressions on the Hankooks for Rally1 through alle car classes all the way down to Rally4/5?
Are the becoming competitive?

A bit strange that they do not sponsor cars in WRC and ERC motr to get better data to develop from.
Have Hankook mentioned why not?

[WRCStan]

What are the first impressions on the Hankooks for Rally1 through alle car classes all the way down to Rally4/5?
Are the becoming competitive?

A bit strange that they do not sponsor cars in WRC and ERC motr to get better data to develop from.
Have Hankook mentioned why not?

They can't sponsor cars in WRC due to the existing arrangement with Pirelli.

Nothing they can do with a Rally1 in ERC and I guess they must be happy with existing development methods for lower classes.

[rallyfiend]

Given that it seems all three teams have been co-opted in to doing the development testing - and indeed by definition their drivers - the fact there is little negative rumours, it seems like it must be going well.

[Andre Oliveira]

Btw, Hankook will be the tyre of Swedish Championship for 2025-2027.

[Sulland]

How will Hankook function on the different surfaces in 2025?
I have seen little testresults from either drivers or teams that have participated in prep testing.
Just wondering if the dip will be significant in average speed pr km SS.

[Steve Boyd]

Just wondering if the dip will be significant in average speed pr km SS.Does it matter if they're all on the same tyre? This years times aren't relevant to next year's results & who is going to notice if they're a second or two per km faster or slower?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Millener reckons the new tyres will be a bigger challenge than removing hybrid...

“Overall, the costs are minimal. It should be relatively straightforward. I think the biggest challenge next year will be the tyres and related aspects, which will likely pose a steeper learning curve than the removal of the hybrids,” Millener explained.

[deephouse]

So, many more punctures. Except Ogier, maybe he will be as lucky as before 😜

[focus206]

So, many more punctures. Except Ogier, maybe he will be as lucky as before ��

Would be interesting to count the punctures each Rally1 driver has had during the Pirelli era... only takes a lot of free time to spend on ewrc-results :D
Ogier must be one of the worst for the amount of punctures, but also Evans and Tanak had their share. Neuville, I barely remember any puncture in the past years, his trouble was always from other things. Was he driving cleaner than the others, or somehow his driving style suited Pirelli better?

[deephouse]

I was sarcastic. In the Michelin era, he was like the only one without punctures all the time. Either he was really ''lucky'' or that good. That's why I mentioned him. This Pirelli tyres was worse, it was clear. And probably will be Hankook too, since they have no experience in WRC at all. It takes time to develop such things.

[becher]

Would be interesting to count the punctures each Rally1 driver has had during the Pirelli era... only takes a lot of free time to spend on ewrc-results :D
Ogier must be one of the worst for the amount of punctures, but also Evans and Tanak had their share. Neuville, I barely remember any puncture in the past years, his trouble was always from other things. Was he driving cleaner than the others, or somehow his driving style suited Pirelli better?
There is an easy way to compare, Monza 2020 and Monte 2021.

They were two months or so apart and the conditions were similar. The number of punctures was similar as well.

[focus206]

I'm not talking about Michelin being better or worse than Pirelli. I'm saying that, at least in my memory, Neuville got way less punctures than Ogier, Evans and Tanak in the Pirelli era. Meanwhile, in the Michelin era, I remember Ogier was the one with way less punctures than the others. But someone would need to count the punctures.

[rallyfiend]

I was sarcastic. In the Michelin era, he was like the only one without punctures all the time. Either he was really ''lucky'' or that good. That's why I mentioned him. This Pirelli tyres was worse, it was clear. And probably will be Hankook too, since they have no experience in WRC at all. It takes time to develop such things.

At least with Hankook they've made the sensible decision to have the same tyre for P1 and P2. This should make it really solid for the P2 guys.

Maybe their entire focus has been on reliability rather than performance and we won't see such a problem with puctures.

[denkimi]

If someone never gets punctures it's just because he is pushing less than the others. Ogier also never crashed untill this year.

[CeskyOndra]

Ogier had definitely the most punctures, which is also connected to the driving style. I have been to many events during Pirelli years and I could clearly see that he was taking biggest risks to make a puncture, especially this year. He was taking the biggest cuts on tarmac.

[Andre Oliveira]

Solberg testing GR Yaris Rally2 today with Pirelli tyres.

[AndyRAC]

Ogier had definitely the most punctures, which is also connected to the driving style. I have been to many events during Pirelli years and I could clearly see that he was taking biggest risks to make a puncture, especially this year. He was taking the biggest cuts on tarmac.

Yeah, punctures are often down to driving style/lines, and not 'bad luck'. If you keep getting them, then there's a reason why........

[Sulland]

Does it matter if they're all on the same tyre? This years times aren't relevant to next year's results & who is going to notice if they're a second or two per km faster or slower?

I absolutrly agree, and I am in favor of trying the RRC/WRC conept again, where todays RC2 cars as the RRC and WRC version with some more aero, and 1 or 2 mm larger restrictor. So that a privateer can buy an WRC upgrade kit for his most local rally, to match with the best in the business!


And it will be interessting to see the quality of Hankook on the different sufaces, and changes during a stage. Much harder to make a good rally tyre than a racing tyre, where changes in the surface are much smaller.

[Sulland]

Solberg testing GR Yaris Rally2 today with Pirelli tyres.

Are the Hankooks available to buy for teams and privateers yet?

[deephouse]

I read somewhere on FB that they already have concerns and issues if tyres will even be ready for Monte-Carlo. Don't find that post anymore, so not sure it's true.

[wyler]

I read somewhere on FB that they already have concerns and issues if tyres will even be ready for Monte-Carlo. Don't find that post anymore, so not sure it's true.

It seems sure they ll not have it to rally1 "test" at rally devouly

[AMSS]

Are the Hankooks available to buy for teams and privateers yet?

No studded Hankook tires are available to anyone at the moment.

[rallyfiend]

I'd be willing to bet a lot the cars in Devouly will be running on Hankooks

[EstWRC]

Hankook era starts with this weekend https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hankooks-wrc-era-begins-this-weekend-is-it-ready/

[EstWRC]

But Fourmaux still with Pirelli on shakedown

https://x.com/rallyesport/status/1867588991891255619?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[TypeR]

Looking from Rovanperas videos, proper Monte conditions and if he is on Hankook's, then it is quite an advantage for first rally..

[rallyfiend]

But Fourmaux still with Pirelli on shakedown

https://x.com/rallyesport/status/1867588991891255619?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

I note the Pirelli branding has been taken off since the car rolled off the truck....

[EstWRC]

So both brands are present

Comparing https://x.com/burgrid16/status/1867606991402938375?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[EstWRC]

Both brands will be used cause there isn’t enough Hankooks

https://x.com/rallyesport/status/1867846974109888713?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[EstWRC]

Fourmaux about the tires

What is your opinion on Hankook tires?

"Frankly, the slicks are good, whether they are super-tender and tender, and there is just the rise in tire temperature which is not necessarily as fast as the Pirelli. For the snow, on the other hand, I'm not very happy. It was necessary to work the old-fashioned way by sizing the tires at each assist to have a good functioning at the end of the rally. We'll see what they'll do for Monte-Carlo, but I really hope we won't have the "basic tires". On the other hand, Hankook was very open in the discussions by being very reactive, and that's a good sign.”

[Sulland]

Have more drivers in all 4wd classes given any feedback on the Hankooks ?

[saco0o]

so.... hankooks looked ok, right? new for everybody, not many random flats... or FIA's new rules for F1 also works for WRC? (cant complain about partners)

[PLuto]

I think everybody knows that it is first year for Hankook in WRC. So not easy with development, Monte (and also Sweden) are specific, so no need to criticise them. We will see later during the year...

[EstWRC]

Drivers satisfied with Hankook

The Rally2 tires proved equally as popular, with Gus Greensmith declaring “I don’t really have anything negative to say to Hankook”.

“I think they’ve been really good,” he explained. “Some of the impacts we’ve had and some of the sharp edges on the cuts, there’s no chance that a Pirelli would have survived those.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/drivers-deliver-initial-verdict-on-hankooks-wrc-tires/

[rallyfiend]

Drivers satisfied with Hankook

The Rally2 tires proved equally as popular, with Gus Greensmith declaring “I don’t really have anything negative to say to Hankook”.

“I think they’ve been really good,” he explained. “Some of the impacts we’ve had and some of the sharp edges on the cuts, there’s no chance that a Pirelli would have survived those.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/drivers-deliver-initial-verdict-on-hankooks-wrc-tires/

I think they're the same tyres, no? There isn't actually 'rally2 tyres' anymore....

[ictus]

I think they're the same tyres, no? There isn't actually 'rally2 tyres' anymore....

different compounds for sure

[TypeR]

different compounds for sure
This year at least in Monte and Sweden they have same tyres and sizes.

E: in Kenya they also have same tyres, but:

WRC1: first choice Hard, alternative Soft
WRC2: first choice Soft, alternative Hard

same dynapro R213 tyres(hard=G3, soft=G7)

[flat_right]

Drivers satisfied with Hankook

The Rally2 tires proved equally as popular, with Gus Greensmith declaring “I don’t really have anything negative to say to Hankook”.

“I think they’ve been really good,” he explained. “Some of the impacts we’ve had and some of the sharp edges on the cuts, there’s no chance that a Pirelli would have survived those.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/drivers-deliver-initial-verdict-on-hankooks-wrc-tires/

Oh man... Gus is still mad about Pirelli :D I thought the same actually that when Gus didn't get any punctures on a tarmac rally, which is known to have a lot of cutting, then it has to be a good tire.

[TypeR]

Gus and Mads should have been full-time Hankook test drivers :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hankook’s WRC debut earns widespread praise...

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w29198_Hankook-s-WRC-debut-earns-widespread-praise