2024 WRC News & Rumours

[WRCStan]

You can't retrospectively apply it, incentives and objectives change, like playing 'what if'. Ogier is best example of someone who pootles round completely disinterested after an early mistake or retirement. Give him a fresh Sunday he would change approach.

[PLuto]

You can't retrospectively apply it, incentives and objectives change, like playing 'what if'. Ogier is best example of someone who pootles round completely disinterested after an early mistake or retirement. Give him a fresh Sunday he would change approach.

I dont think Ogier is interested in any Sunday short race, he wants to fight for overal win. Like he was not interested in fight for power stage points, I think he will be not interested in fight for Sunday points...

[Kras]

italian media did 23 vs 24 point system comparison on this year championship.
result is: nothing changes, except classification is shorter. Rovampera even got the same exact point of this year.

here their statement: "What would have changed by applying the new points scoring for the 2023 WRC season to the 2024 season? Practically NOTHING, except to have a shorter leaderboard, in the sense of reduced gaps at the end of the season.
As you can see from the simulation I did (barring errors and omissions of course) you can see how the FIA scores for the 2024 season have been drawn up. The simulations were done on Rovanpera, who in fact turns out to have the same final points with one scoring system or the other. The intention then was not to upset anything but to make the championship more tightly contested until the last race."
2499

You're ignoring a pretty big factor here: Drivers in 2023 didn't drive to maximize their points under 2024 rules.
This fact alone makes this comparison totally irrelevant

[seb_sh]

OK, the rally working group involving Richards and Reid was announced during the Baku meet. It will cover issues beyond WRC to grassroots rallying. https://www.fia.com/news/fia-statement-future-rallying

WMSC discusses and approves/rejects motions proposed to it, including all championship or discipline rules. They also approved the rule change at the Baku meet. No way the new working group invented and thrashed through this change, to propose it to the WMSC, to discuss, to vote on, within those days. After WMSC ratified the system change idea it said a WMSC Task Force was responsible for setting the points distribution. This may have involved Richards as a WMSC member, we don't know for sure. https://www.fia.com/news/wmsc-gathers-baku-final-meeting-landmark-year

The proposal would likely have come from the WRC Commission, given it's a WRC regulation and not a general rallying rule and with so few manufacturers involved. Richards is not a member of these. There's also the WRC working groups, task forces and committees elsewhere, such as the meeting with drivers that Solberg chaired as Drivers Commission president. That was the meeting that had 80 ideas discussed, one of which is likely to be this points change.

Come to think of it, does Richards even have skin in the WRC game? He can't even be bothered to get a WRC round going as MSUK chief. It's possible he gets involved, he is on the senate I think, but I still think it's better to have some evidence.

Thanks for the explanation, my mistake, I got it mixed up.

So it means the worst is yet to come! :P

[wyler]

You're ignoring a pretty big factor here: Drivers in 2023 didn't drive to maximize their points under 2024 rules.
This fact alone makes this comparison totally irrelevant

no it's not, you just have to get the point.
first, is not me, i didn't write the article myself, just reported it.

anyway, i think it's very clear that the priority for drivers with new rules will be different, so, that part is for sure irrelevant -needless to say-, but is not the point. it's obvious you can't compare on that side, but you can compare on others. i think is interesting, as the article points out, that the new scoring system has been done looking for the same end result but shorter rankings as a base.

[WRCStan]

I dont think Ogier is interested in any Sunday short race, he wants to fight for overal win. Like he was not interested in fight for power stage points, I think he will be not interested in fight for Sunday points...

He'd do it for Toyota, these new points apply to manufacturers too. Won't sit back and rely on team mates.

[TypeR]

Not in Monte. 10th victory is in sight..

[WRCStan]

Not in Monte. 10th victory is in sight..

No doubt victory in the plan but if he finds himself out of rally win contention on Saturday evening, you think he tells Toyota 'meh' when everybody starts at zero on Sunday and 2/3rds the max Saturday points are still to play for?

[fiscorpun]

I have been showing my young cousing (15yo) some WRC highlights and coverage and social media etc over the last month. He watches Motocross and V8SC basically, but hes aware of Motorsport in general. I asked him what they shoud do to "IMPROVE" rally in his opinion.... He answered: "Ah, 3 days is way too much for me, man. Even the three separated day highlights are too much. If they had one full weekend highlights in 15 or 20 minutes, that would be gold. Otherwise, those cars are super rad. They should run them in Gymkhana format, where people can see them and cheer for the battles. Or have them racing one or two close stages only, where all the fans can gather and watch in one place. I would not go out there to watch ONE CAR passing each 3 minutos to have to walk kilometers to the next stage. No way"

I mean.......... Its a "youngster opinion". Thats not RALLYING, but MAYBE some promoter could bat an eye on that simple idea haha

[Rallyper]

I have been showing my young cousing (15yo) some WRC highlights and coverage and social media etc over the last month. He watches Motocross and V8SC basically, but hes aware of Motorsport in general. I asked him what they shoud do to "IMPROVE" rally in his opinion.... He answered: "Ah, 3 days is way too much for me, man. Even the three separated day highlights are too much. If they had one full weekend highlights in 15 or 20 minutes, that would be gold. Otherwise, those cars are super rad. They should run them in Gymkhana format, where people can see them and cheer for the battles. Or have them racing one or two close stages only, where all the fans can gather and watch in one place. I would not go out there to watch ONE CAR passing each 3 minutos to have to walk kilometers to the next stage. No way"

I mean.......... Its a "youngster opinion". Thats not RALLYING, but MAYBE some promoter could bat an eye on that simple idea haha

Well, everyone is free to invent new sports.

Rallying is rallying, even if it dies out.

And don´t forget historic rallying. Maybe that´s the future? Back to square one... :) ;)

[Franky]

I have been showing my young cousing (15yo) some WRC highlights and coverage and social media etc over the last month. He watches Motocross and V8SC basically, but hes aware of Motorsport in general. I asked him what they shoud do to "IMPROVE" rally in his opinion.... He answered: "Ah, 3 days is way too much for me, man. Even the three separated day highlights are too much. If they had one full weekend highlights in 15 or 20 minutes, that would be gold. Otherwise, those cars are super rad. They should run them in Gymkhana format, where people can see them and cheer for the battles. Or have them racing one or two close stages only, where all the fans can gather and watch in one place. I would not go out there to watch ONE CAR passing each 3 minutos to have to walk kilometers to the next stage. No way"

I mean.......... Its a "youngster opinion". Thats not RALLYING, but MAYBE some promoter could bat an eye on that simple idea haha

Next to show him rallycross?

[Kras]

Next to show him rallycross?

But he wont like it, despite the fact that it's exactly what he described rally should be.
This is why you never ask people feedback on things they have no clue about. They can't tell you what they want when they don't know it themeselves.

[becher]

But he wont like it, despite the fact that it's exactly what he described rally should be.
This is why you never ask people feedback on things they have no clue about. They can't tell you what they want when they don't know it themeselves.

It sounds harsh, but there is actually some truth to this. Just look on what basis people judge if a consumer product is good.

[seb_sh]

If you read what the cousin said carefully, he didn't complain about the format of the rally itself. He complained about the long review on tv. He would like a 15-20 minute review/highlights of the whole rally. At least that's what I understood, he wouldn't care if the cars did 2 stages or 20 as long as it would be a 15 minute video.

As for Gymkhana part, there are already super specials, there used to be more side by side type super specials. Also semi artificial sections with viewing spots exist on some rallies, maybe there could be more?

People love to come up with theories to make rallying popular to the younger generations. Maybe a big part of the problem and the solution is more in the TV studio. Also nowadays people are bombarded with information, perhaps a 15-20 minute review for a casual fan is a good idea.

[trykmann]

It would help if they would focus more on social media and free content.

The shakedown live on Youtube is a good example. The paywall does not have to go entirely, but free content should me more available in widely used channels.

Also the previously mentioned shorter overviews would help to gain more viewers.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[meh]

There is no "the one and only" truth. Some like 100m sprints, others ultra marathons. Both are right.

Some like camping in the forest for a few days and watching passing rally cars, some like to watch donuts on a "miki mouse" city stage. Both are right.

It is not possible to be liked by everyone.

[mousti]

According to DH Moteurs, Munster will do a full season with the Puma Rally1..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[wwbroe]

According to DH Moteurs, Munster will do a full season with the Puma Rally1..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

If that is indeed the case, this is really a very nice Christmas gift from Santa Claus Serderidis;)

[ictus]

Just heard Fourmaux and Munster all rounds with third car possible to rent

[lmmjvss]

But he wont like it, despite the fact that it's exactly what he described rally should be.
This is why you never ask people feedback on things they have no clue about. They can't tell you what they want when they don't know it themeselves.

This reminded me when you see people complaining that F1 should be "more like Indycar and F2" cuz "they have way better racing, 70% of the drivers get a podium, half of the grid wins at least one race"... Then, like... Mate why dont u watch Indycar and F2 instead of F1 then? hahah Jeeezz
"MotoGP is getting lame, British Super Bikes are the best" - Good, go watch BSB, not MotoGP then.
I mean, I probably said something like that too somewhere, but heeeyyyy Im watching the Australian Basketball League since 2021, not the NBA so... Good for me. No need to complain anymore about egos e boring games, Im just enjoying the games! BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO S... ah whatever, man

[1988senna]

My understand is that split 3 days race to 2 parts can give more chance to the drivers like Evans always retired in Friday or Saturday to compete with Rovanpera in standing.Mr Sunday can't imagine get 12 points in sunday in the past

In the same time if Rovanpera meet more pressure from other guys it will likely make him to make more mistakes also. So the new points system is not only to make Sunday more exciting but also make championship more exciting. Anyone agree?

[meh]

Anyone agree?

No.

My understanding is - if you are not really a dedicated rally fan and know all (current) rules, it is already too complicated to understand (immediately) - one day they drive in one order, another day in another order, and then there are powerstage points, etc.

Now, they create a complete mess with the points - the average rally fan probably is not that good in mathematics (sorry for the generalization), if it is too complicated to understand, they'll probably lose more interest and stay away from it.

It must be KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

About your example Rovanperä vs Evans - I think if someone can not handle the pressure, it is Evans, not Rovanperä. So it may also work vice-versa.

[EstWRC]

Abiteboul named Hyundai president in management reshuffle
Cyril Abiteboul has been named as Hyundai Motorsport president as part of a senior management reshuffle at the Korean manufacturer.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/abiteboul-named-hyundai-president-in-management-reshuffle/10559480/

[seb_sh]

If you read what the cousin said carefully, he didn't complain about the format of the rally itself. He complained about the long review on tv. He would like a 15-20 minute review/highlights of the whole rally. At least that's what I understood, he wouldn't care if the cars did 2 stages or 20 as long as it would be a 15 minute video.

As for Gymkhana part, there are already super specials, there used to be more side by side type super specials. Also semi artificial sections with viewing spots exist on some rallies, maybe there could be more?

People love to come up with theories to make rallying popular to the younger generations. Maybe a big part of the problem and the solution is more in the TV studio. Also nowadays people are bombarded with information, perhaps a 15-20 minute review for a casual fan is a good idea.

I'm going to have a conversation with myself here but what I said in that post was something the crossed through my mind based on that conversation. In reality you have to look at everything at high level first.

Somebody put it best earlier in the thread, first you have to decide what you want, where you want to go with the championship, then you can take measures to get there. In a word it's called vision. I think WRC is completely lacking vision and this rule shows it too, it's just a band-aid and could have uninteded secondary effects.

[AndyRAC]

Stop trying to appeal to those mythical casual fans........and just annoy the loyal fans who've supported the sport through thick and thin. More short term 'fixes' that don't address the problems.


If these clowns ran the WEC, they'd have panicked when it was just Toyota - we'd have few manufacturers, 3-4 hour identikit races, they'd drop Le Mans as it's too long, expensive for teams, fans, etc....and award points for a final hour fastest lap......

[typhoon]

As I told in the past, it's not about the gimmicks you want to put in the series, but it's time for the FIA and the Promoter to work on the best solution for all the stakeholders.

Manufacturers wants hybrid or EV or Hydrogen. Perfectly fine, if this helps improving the field and get more cars at the start ramp, then go for it. Either with BoP or whatever they figure out.

If a local Promoter wants to develop 3 Superspecials and 5 in-line, 6km fan-stages, then go for it. Not every rally needs to be a carnage, as long as we have a rally with enough mileage to be called a WRC event.

But it's FIA responsibility to:
1 - Develop a Budget Cap for the teams in order to make the whole season more affordable
2 - Work on the flexibility of the events themselves

Also, it's gonna be WRC Promoter's responsibility to be able to make the series more attractive in few steps:
1 - Bring partners for which you won't ask money for the sponsorship, but rather provide any service (I wrote about DHL providing dome freights for fly-away rallies to lower logistic costs), etc.
2 - Distribute the TV product in a more flexible way, providing more compact highlights and more free-to-air TV broadcasts, without asking sick prices as I learned in Italy for which NO ONE would buy. Some TV rights are out of this world and they better wake up on how the market changed. It's almost 2024, seriously.
3 - Heavily invest on "new fans", via Social Media, Twitch and E-Sports.

Regarding this last point: the average WRC fan is "aging" and thus is not going to purchase out of enthusiasm and artificial hype, but is rather doing its purchases more "wisely". Embracing those new potential fanbase would mean tons of merch sold, tons of interactions and actions on the web and a gold mine called E-Sports which can bring easily tens of tons of money for the growth of the series. On this side, everything is almost unexplored from the Promoter's POV. Quite a shame indeed.

[WRCStan]

3 - Heavily invest on "new fans", via Social Media, Twitch and E-Sports.

Regarding this last point: the average WRC fan is "aging" and thus is not going to purchase out of enthusiasm and artificial hype, but is rather doing its purchases more "wisely". Embracing those new potential fanbase would mean tons of merch sold, tons of interactions and actions on the web and a gold mine called E-Sports which can bring easily tens of tons of money for the growth of the series. On this side, everything is almost unexplored from the Promoter's POV. Quite a shame indeed.

Did you miss them licensing the brand to rally sim/game developers and having e-championships for the past umpteen years.

[WRCStan]

OK, the rally working group involving Richards and Reid was announced during the Baku meet. It will cover issues beyond WRC to grassroots rallying. https://www.fia.com/news/fia-statement-future-rallying

WMSC discusses and approves/rejects motions proposed to it, including all championship or discipline rules. They also approved the rule change at the Baku meet. No way the new working group invented and thrashed through this change, to propose it to the WMSC, to discuss, to vote on, within those days. After WMSC ratified the system change idea it said a WMSC Task Force was responsible for setting the points distribution. This may have involved Richards as a WMSC member, we don't know for sure. https://www.fia.com/news/wmsc-gathers-baku-final-meeting-landmark-year

The proposal would likely have come from the WRC Commission, given it's a WRC regulation and not a general rallying rule and with so few manufacturers involved. Richards is not a member of these. There's also the WRC working groups, task forces and committees elsewhere, such as the meeting with drivers that Solberg chaired as Drivers Commission president. That was the meeting that had 80 ideas discussed, one of which is likely to be this points change.

Come to think of it, does Richards even have skin in the WRC game? He can't even be bothered to get a WRC round going as MSUK chief. It's possible he gets involved, he is on the senate I think, but I still think it's better to have some evidence.

To follow up on this, today's Rally Dept newsletter explains the Working Group was the Task Force here, i.e setting the points scale. They then met with manufacturers and promoter (as reported) to discuss this and lots of things. The group's immediate focus is the WRC and will produce a paper, with recommendations going to the WRC Commission.

Which then needs the WMSC to approve changes. :)

So fair to say DR will be having a say in future, but still not clear all this was his idea.

[Kenneth]

a gold mine called E-Sports which can bring easily tens of tons of money for the growth of the series.

Gold mine called esports? As someone who is in the industry, I can say that this is a good joke.

[Mirek]

1 - Develop a Budget Cap for the teams in order to make the whole season more affordable

IMHO this way of thinking is fundamentally wrong.

You don't create a successful plan by cutting costs because the cost is very relative term absolutely relevant to the value. In other words a bad product is never cheap enough and a good product is never too expensive. FIA absolutely must work on the value of the product not trying to improve the cost of a bad one.

I know that my talk is cheap but I stand my ground that the WRC can not survive as a major sport without a radical redesign even when that will not be liked by part of its core fans.

[PLuto]

IMHO this way of thinking is fundamentally wrong.

You don't create a successful plan by cutting costs because the cost is very relative term absolutely relevant to the value. In other words a bad product is never cheap enough and a good product is never too expensive. FIA absolutely must work on the value of the product not trying to improve the cost of a bad one.

I know that my talk is cheap but I stand my ground that the WRC can not survive as a major sport without a radical redesign even when that will not be liked by part of its core fans.

But there is question, if there will be so drastical changes, if it will still be rally (not only by name). And also there is a question if this radical changes will help or kill it definitely...

[Myrvold]

If these clowns ran the WEC, they'd have panicked when it was just Toyota - we'd have few manufacturers, 3-4 hour identikit races, they'd drop Le Mans as it's too long, expensive for teams, fans, etc....and award points for a final hour fastest lap......

While I get your point. When WEC became the Toyota-Cup in the 18/19 season (yes, there were a fine number of privateers, but that's like having one manufacturer and 10 Bertelli and Serderidis in Rally1. Numbers would be slightly higher than today, in reality the manufacturer wins every day. Which Toyota did, except for their DQ).
Anyway. It was Toyota - some privateers, Le Mans and a heap of identical 6hour races. Except for Sebring, where WEC in reality was a support race for the 12 hours of Sebring.
What did they do after that? They had a couple of 8 hour races, and a couple of 4 hour races. So there wouldn't be more driving to drive up costs for the following year.

What do we see in 2024? Qatar get a special length race because... money? Bahrain have an 8hr race. Le Mans in 24hrs and the rest? Identical 6hr races.

Again, I do get your point, but WEC is mainly a series consisting of loads of identical races and a couple of outliers.

[Mirek]

But there is question, if there will be so drastical changes, if it will still be rally (not only by name). And also there is a question if this radical changes will help or kill it definitely...

Well, the original rally was closest to the Gumball...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I've come across some of these "Reaction videos" recently, featuring rallying. If people get to see WRC they are blown away.

https://youtu.be/i-j7kgpfKMI?si=Zn4cMmS-_N-b6O7R

[jacko]

New date for Rally Central European: 17-20 october 2024

[Eli]

New date for Rally Central European: 17-20 October 2024

Any source?

[Mirek]

Any source?

I hope it's true. The original date was potentially very problematic in Czechia.

[wyler]

Any source?

reported also on italian media + a slightly change of rally hq/ or even service park to Bad Griesbach Im Rottal (looks strange to me)

[Eli]

I later checked and saw this: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/neuer-termin-fuer-rallye-zentraleuropa-51333/

[Kenneth]

It was in the calendar of 2024 published by Czech Auto Club like 2 weeks ago.

But maybe ACCR had it wrong and all of the reports had them as a source.

[WUff1]

New date for Rally Central European: 17-20 october 2024

Service Park will not be in Passau then, this year´s area is already booked.

[fiscorpun]

Oh man, I JUST got some time to really read into the new points BS, cuz I wasnt interested cuz it looked like BS... And it is a total BS now that Ive read.... What a joke are we becoming. Thats Nascar level

[fiscorpun]

Imagine Manchester vs Real Madrid. Real wins but gets only 1 point while Manchester gets 2 points.
WHAT. THE. F.????
HOW is everybody ok with that? Haha I mean, the "stakeholders" and the "manufacturers" and the "board" hahaha jeez, wtf

[HKSjbg]

Which Manchester? Manchester Rovers or Manchester County?

[BleAivano]

Which Manchester? Manchester Rovers or Manchester County?

Manchester Storm.

[CeskyOndra]

So is the rumour with CER true?

[WUff1]

So is the rumour with CER true?

https://www-rallye--magazin-de.translate.goog/wrc/artikel/neuer-termin-fuer-rallye-zentraleuropa-51333/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[wyler]

WRC3

Tom Pieri and Damien Oberti at Monte with Clio rally3

http://www.areacorse.com/pieri-e-oberti-in-clio-rally3/ (italian)

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/neuville-shares-his-vision-for-future-wrc-event-format/10560871/

Maybe someone will listen, specifically about having tarmac night stages.

[doubled1978]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/neuville-shares-his-vision-for-future-wrc-event-format/10560871/

Maybe someone will listen, specifically about having tarmac night stages.

Yeah, I read it on Motorsport.com. Basically I like his idea, different formats for different events, play to the strengths of those events. Look after the general punters on Sunday and keep the liaison down.
Interested he mentioned Wales looking to come back, from a personal point of view I hope that is true, but I haven’t heard anything in that regard.

[trykmann]

There have been several news about Lappi, Tänak, Suninen, Solberg and Latvala as Toyotas spokesperson giving their comments about new points system.

In conclusion their thoughts are quite the same as the majority if this community:
- The new rules are too complicated
- Difficult to understand who is the rally winner
- The rally winner should gain the largest amount of points
- The new system is not fixing the real problem about Sundays, which is just lack of competiton.

Here you can see a quite interesting interview with Teemu:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120257962/videokone-teemu-suninen-uus-wrc-punktisusteem-on-nagu-uppuvalt-paadilt-vee-valja-viskamine-auku-sellega-ei-paranda

It should not be behind a paywall and it has English subtitles. He gives quite a good overview about the current WRC situation.

[Andre Oliveira]

"- Difficult to understand who is the rally winner"

Who said that the winner will be different than the one who complete all stages in less time (with penalties)? STOP say that bullshit of "the new rally winner doubt".

[PLuto]

"- Difficult to understand who is the rally winner"

Who said that the winner will be different than the one who complete all stages in less time (with penalties)? STOP say that bullshit of "the new rally winner doubt".

You will see...

[WRCStan]

- The new system is not fixing the real problem about Sundays, which is just lack of competiton.

So what's a better immediate idea?

[WRCStan]

You will see...

...a power stage as usual, the winning driver runs last as usual, the winner stands on the car as usual, podium ceremony as usual, flags and champagne as usual, points graphics on screen as usual and "join us in X, goodbye" as usual.

Maybe there's a couple extra points graphics than before, but there's no extra ceremony or need to interview the Saturday/Sunday/PS 'winners'.

It might not work, it might not be agreeable, it might be cancelled; but anybody pretending they don't understand who won a rally after Monte is being obstinate.

[trykmann]

"- Difficult to understand who is the rally winner"

Who said that the winner will be different than the one who complete all stages in less time (with penalties)? STOP say that bullshit of "the new rally winner doubt".

I understand how the rules work, you don't have to question me about this. My post was a conclusion about different opinions from the people on the highest level. Watch for example the interview with Teemu.

These people are not regular rally fans and if they complain about the same things, then this is not OK.

[trykmann]

So what's a better immediate idea?

Does it have to be a cheap fix? Usually problems are better solved, if you are dealing with the reasons not with the consequences. The FIA knew about this problem for many years and just before the beginning of the new season they finally sat down and tried to come up with a better solution.

If they wanted a cheap fix, then just give extra points for every stage win on Sunday and you have at least a simple solution.

[denkimi]

They could also have just made sunday longer, that would fix almost everything.
2 long day rallies, 150km per day. Friday-saturdar or saturday-sunday, with some night stages in between. And perhaps a SS the evening before.

[WRCStan]

If they wanted a cheap fix, then just give extra points for every stage win on Sunday and you have at least a simple solution.

Not radical enough IMO. 3/4/5 points to one car just isn't a game changer and there's usually only 2/3 capable of fighting for it as Teemu said. Reset the scoreboard and incentivise 5-6-7th and you've got the entertainment back.

An instant fix doesn't have to be cheap, it just has to be doable.

[seb_sh]

...a power stage as usual, the winning driver runs last as usual, the winner stands on the car as usual, podium ceremony as usual, flags and champagne as usual, points graphics on screen as usual and "join us in X, goodbye" as usual.

Maybe there's a couple extra points graphics than before, but there's no extra ceremony or need to interview the Saturday/Sunday/PS 'winners'.

It might not work, it might not be agreeable, it might be cancelled; but anybody pretending they don't understand who won a rally after Monte is being obstinate.

I don't think anyone is actually confused about who the rally winner is. I think what people mean is that it won't make sense when the rally winner gets fewer points than 3rd place for example. It might be fine for most rallies but I think we'll have a few awkward ones next year, there is a disonance between the result and the reward. Giving points for Sunday would have achieved the same goal. Ending the rally on Saturday and having Sunday Super Sprint would have worked as well. Both would have been more straightforward. That's the point.

About the coverage, I'm not sure it's going to be as straightforward. On Sunday they may focus on the leg standings as that's what actually gives out points. During the powers stage there are 3 relevant standings: PS itself which gives points, Sunday leg which gives points and Rally Overall which doesn't give points but determines the winner. Afterwards a fourth classification is relevant for the biggest points reward: Saturday standings but only the cars that finished the rally. I tried to imagine Becsy and Porter trying to make heads and tails of everything, I'm eagerly awaiting to hear it live :D

[HKSjbg]

I tried to imagine Becsy and Porter trying to make heads and tails of everything, I'm eagerly awaiting to hear it live :D

As with every one of their broadcasts, their vocabulary won’t stretch much further than “Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Oooooooooooooo”

[WRCStan]

I don't think anyone is actually confused about who the rally winner is.

That's exactly what was said.


Ending the rally on Saturday and having Sunday Super Sprint would have worked as well. Both would have been more straightforward. That's the point.

You're then creating two or three events, a paperwork disaster for everybody involved from permits to insurances etc. You're also shitting on the organiser's event, the start-to-finish rally that still exists for everybody else from WRC2 to funtime driver. How do you enforce everybody to take part on the Sunday if they can't be bothered...

I think there is good reason it hasn't been done like this. Possible in the future but too quick a change now to be fair.


About the coverage, I'm not sure it's going to be as straightforward. On Sunday they may focus on the leg standings as that's what actually gives out points. During the powers stage there are 3 relevant standings: PS itself which gives points, Sunday leg which gives points and Rally Overall which doesn't give points but determines the winner. Afterwards a fourth classification is relevant for the biggest points reward: Saturday standings but only the cars that finished the rally. I tried to imagine Becsy and Porter trying to make heads and tails of everything, I'm eagerly awaiting to hear it live :D

Fair point, on screen graphics will have to be clear, and commentary will have to be mentally switched on. So I wouldn't be too surprised if they didn't focus on Sunday scores much. It could just be 5-10 seconds per graphic at the end of each stage. 'Here are the stage results', 'Here are the leg standings', 'Here are the rally standings'.

Else, by the time they get to cameras in WRC2 cars it will be an absolute fkinc mess. :D :D :D

It's easier than trying to understand that a Rally2 car is winning the class but is not nominated for WRC2 but is 8th overall so will score WRC points.

[seb_sh]

That's exactly what was said.



You're then creating two or three events, a paperwork disaster for everybody involved from permits to insurances etc. You're also shitting on the organiser's event, the start-to-finish rally that still exists for everybody else from WRC2 to funtime driver. How do you enforce everybody to take part on the Sunday if they can't be bothered...

I think there is good reason it hasn't been done like this. Possible in the future but too quick a change now to be fair.



Fair point, on screen graphics will have to be clear, and commentary will have to be mentally switched on. So I wouldn't be too surprised if they didn't focus on Sunday scores much. It could just be 5-10 seconds per graphic at the end of each stage. 'Here are the stage results', 'Here are the leg standings', 'Here are the rally standings'.

Else, by the time they get to cameras in WRC2 cars it will be an absolute fkinc mess. :D :D :D

It's easier than trying to understand that a Rally2 car is winning the class but is not nominated for WRC2 but is 8th overall so will score WRC points.

How would giving extra points for Sunday be a different event? It's the current solution without the nonsense Saturday points.

Fair enough about the organisers needing heads-up to have a separate Sunday sprint but the FIA had plenty of time to do something, Sunday cruising is there for years and years...

[WRCStan]

How would giving extra points for Sunday be a different event? It's the current solution without the nonsense Saturday points.

(I quoted) Ending the rally on Saturday and having a separate Sunday Sprint causes multiple events, administration issues and questionable participation question for lower classes. If they do a third, "full length" rally; they are not doing a WRC rally. There will therefore remain only one rally for the foreseeable future.

A Power Sunday within existing start-to-finish points system obviously didn't appeal to them. I can only imagine because this doesn't reset the risk and incentives across the board - crews and manufacturers. Only a fresh clean start from 0 is best for answering the root problem statement: how to get all entertainment class cars entertaining on a Sunday. It eliminates the possibility of team orders or drivers deciding on the rally or the sprint. If you retain 25 for the win and a token for the sprint, 5 points say? You might as well do nothing, just not radical enough, it is not an incentive.

What they delivered is the only way to reset to 0 and remain in the one rally.

[seb_sh]

Only a fresh clean start from 0 is best for answering the root problem statement: how to get all entertainment class cars entertaining on a Sunday. It eliminates the possibility of team orders or drivers deciding on the rally or the sprint. If you retain 25 for the win and a token for the sprint, 5 points say? You might as well do nothing, just not radical enough, it is not an incentive.

What they delivered is the only way to reset to 0 and remain in the one rally.

Ok, I think you are right that this is what they think and is how they got to this solution, however I think that they are wrong and that they were a minute late and a dollar short as always which limited their options. I hope I'm wrong but I think there will be a some awkward rallies and stage end interviews. Not long until we start finding out.

[Duvel]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/neuville-shares-his-vision-for-future-wrc-event-format/10560871/

Maybe someone will listen, specifically about having tarmac night stages.

Nice ideas here!

[Duvel]

All this fuzz about point system...
They would better make sure the fans get to see more action! Both live on events, (compact, and accessible timing) and by difrent media channels.

New point system is not going to attract new fans..

[WRCStan]

New point system is not going to attract new fans..

Agree, but it could go some way to retain existing fans.

[the sniper]

Agree, but it could go some way to retain existing fans.

Let us know when you find them. They've really gone out of their way to serve that segment of the audience, it'd be nice if we could actually identify who was captivated by these changes who was going elsewhere otherwise.

[Franky]

I'm going off topic now and really should be in the pub thread, maybe.

But... wouldn't this kind of a low point of WRC present another opportunity for someone to prop up an alternative championship?

[HKSjbg]

I'm going off topic now and really should be in the pub thread, maybe.

But... wouldn't this kind of a low point of WRC present another opportunity for someone to prop up an alternative championship?

I did wonder when this news came out whether something similar to IRC may crop up in the near future as a result of disgruntled competitors, teams, sponsors, event organisers etc. Then I thought I'd better not make that comment on this forum for fear of backlash and ridicule from my fellow forumers :D It's at least nice to pretend what an imaginary new-IRC calendar might look like!

[PLuto]

There is no proper chance to make alternative championship. For FIA (and also for WRC Promoter) it is business and they dont want another player on the field. And you cannot make the rally championship without FIA...

[WRCStan]

Let us know when you find them. They've really gone out of their way to serve that segment of the audience, it'd be nice if we could actually identify who was captivated by these changes who was going elsewhere otherwise.

Have a look around this forum. Surely you've seen the topic of Sunday driving pop up before, or the rally threads die a death by Sunday.

[Steve Boyd]

I don't see any permit or authorisation problems with "split" events, all you have to is to explain how the division of the event and points work in the regulations. As an example the WRC Rally of Narnia could have three stages totalling 50km on Friday for a,b,c ... points, six stages adding up to 150 km on Saturday for d,e,f ... points and four stages on Sunday with 80 km for h,i,j ... points. Any combination is possible, but I don't believe it's the right solution.

The issue is (and has always been) when a crew believes they have an unbeatable lead, they cruise to the finish. It's the same for the crew in second. If they can't catch the crew in front they'll only go fast enough to keep ahead of the crew behind. It's the same in GP racing and they've come up with the slightly artificial "fastest lap point" in the same way that WRC has it's power stage points to try and spice things up at the end.

The problem for the enthusiast is the TV & Promotion people trying to turn F1 & WRC from MotorSport to MotorEntertainment. While they are in charge they will always try to add more gimmicks to spice up the show. The FIA needs to stand up to this nonsense. You don't get football matches with bonus points for goals in the last 5 minutes - if a league game is deadlocked it's allowed to finish as a draw. There's a discussion over how dull or entertaining it was and everyone moves on to the next match.

Why can't we do this in Rallying? If you really need to keep the battle going longer and the events shorter then why not have half the stage km on Saturday and half on Sunday, treat the rally as a double round of all of the WRC championships (overall, WRC3, WRC3, WRCJ) and give the half points for Saturday and half points for Sunday?

[ictus]

Jeeeez!!! make a separate topic for bitchin an moaning about the new point scoring system, and leave this for actual NEWS

[EstWRC]

Jeeeez!!! make a separate topic for bitchin an moaning about the new point scoring system, and leave this for actual NEWS

+1000

[Franky]

Jeeeez!!! make a separate topic for bitchin an moaning about the new point scoring system, and leave this for actual NEWS

Jeeez! There's no news. Let them discuss the last big news there was till there's something else noteworthy.

[HKSjbg]

Jeeeez!!! make a separate topic for bitchin an moaning about the new point scoring system, and leave this for actual NEWS

No one’s forcing you to read every comment on this forum. It is at least on-topic and is just your fellow rally fans discussing their thoughts and musings on the last bit of news.

[AndyRAC]

The problem for the enthusiast is the TV & Promotion people trying to turn F1 & WRC from MotorSport to MotorEntertainment. While they are in charge they will always try to add more gimmicks to spice up the show. The FIA needs to stand up to this nonsense. You don't get football matches with bonus points for goals in the last 5 minutes - if a league game is deadlocked it's allowed to finish as a draw. There's a discussion over how dull or entertaining it was and everyone moves on to the next match.



WRC has been determined to copy what F1 does since the late 90s/ early 00s - and look where that landed the sport. Too many people in the sport, and even on here can't grasp what the sport is meant to be about - speed & endurance.

[AndyRAC]

I did wonder when this news came out whether something similar to IRC may crop up in the near future as a result of disgruntled competitors, teams, sponsors, event organisers etc. Then I thought I'd better not make that comment on this forum for fear of backlash and ridicule from my fellow forumers :D It's at least nice to pretend what an imaginary new-IRC calendar might look like!

It should be possible, but it's rallying, and we all know how poorly it's run......the sport isn't big enough to support another global series. And that's poor in my opinion.

Sportscars has the WEC, but teams/ drivers will do other races/ series in different cars - whether it's IMSA, NLS (VLN), Fanatec GT, et al, etc


I would love to see a proper European Tarmac series for Rally 2 cars, R-GT, GT3 cars

[rallyfiend]

It should be possible, but it's rallying, and we all know how poorly it's run......the sport isn't big enough to support another global series. And that's poor in my opinion.

Sportscars has the WEC, but teams/ drivers will do other races/ series in different cars - whether it's IMSA, NLS (VLN), Fanatec GT, et al, etc


I would love to see a proper European Tarmac series for Rally 2 cars, R-GT, GT3 cars

Is it really a question of how poorly the sport is run, or a reflection on how complicated the events are to run?

To compare to any kind of circuit racing is a little disingenuous. They use fixed infrastructure purely designed for their purpose. They can run every single week and just roll out the same process regardless of the cars on track, or the suitability of the drivers.

Rallying surely remains probably the highest participation motorsports in the world....

[WRCStan]

WRC has been determined to copy what F1 does since the late 90s/ early 00s - and look where that landed the sport.

I'd love to hear your alternative timeline with what should and shouldn't have happened.

[WRCStan]

Too many people in the sport, and even on here can't grasp what the sport is meant to be about - speed & endurance.

By sport I think you mean this championship and depending on what you mean by endurance (please explain), it might just be your opinion.

[bisak]

Gryazin will race under an European flag in 2024

[Andre Oliveira]

Gryazin will race under an European flag in 2024

Bulgarian

[Tom K]

So he will get Bulgarian nationality? In WRC flag is passport depended, no licence.

[rallyfiend]

So he will get Bulgarian nationality? In WRC flag is passport depended, no licence.

His mother is Bulgarian, isn’t she?

I guess it can just take time to get a new passport / citizenship even when entitled to it.

[becher]

So he will get Bulgarian nationality? In WRC flag is passport depended, no licence.

Really? If so, what's the reason behind it?

[denkimi]

Really? If so, what's the reason behind it?

idiots who try to expand the war in ukraine into sports.

[Mirek]

idiots who try to expand the war in ukraine into sports.

While the whole situation is quite complicated it's a mater of fact that the Russian sportsmen themselves are largely responsible for what is happening. Large part of them are active members of the military, some wear military or propaganda logos on their jerseys (Z letters; USSR symbols; Red banners; Rossoboronexport logos etc. all is common in Russian sport), some even still actively support Putin or even the war.

Anyway the international sport has always been a tool of politics.

[linni]

idiots who try to expand the war in ukraine into sports.

Really? Can you imagine For example1944 Olympic Games with German athletes participating? If they did take place.

Moscow CSKA - main hokkey club for Russian national hokkey team - Centralnyi Sportivnyi Klub Armii - Central Sports Club of the Army. And so on, so on. Most of the sports in Russia are connected to army, as russian goverment has made sports part of their foreign politics. As was in Nazi Germany.

[bomber21]

off topic, don’t start again please

[TypeR]

Happy New Year crazy rally fans and fellow forum users!
Thank you for posting and arguing on different topics! Sometimes the heat gets a bit too high, but at the end all is fine and we love this sport!
Let the 2024 season begin!!

[Eli]

Happy New Year everyone, may we’ll have a nice & safe(!) season ahead of us with some good news heading our way! And may not a Toyota finally win this year ��

[dimviii]

Daniel Elena
@DanosElena
·
31 Dec 2023
Il paraît que ça fait bien donc je vous présente mes vœux ��
Bonne année 2024 ��
Danos is back on the game ��

���� It seems that it is good to say it so I wish you the best��
Happy New Year 2024 ��
Danos is back on the game ��

[ictus]

Danos is back on the game ��
Old news:
https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w27098_Bulacia-brothers-call-on-WRC-legend-Elena-for-2024

[Eli]

Some nice news to start the year, apparently, Mike Chen will be coming to All live, WRC TV, whatever:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/10-things-to-look-forward-to-in-wrc-2024/
"Rally TV bringing back a familiar face

Mike Chen’s return to WRC’s Rally TV service is definitely a positive for rally watchers right the way around planet earth. Here at DirtFish, we were fortunate enough to enjoy Chenny’s company when he joined us for Croatia’s world championship round a few years ago."

[Duvel]

Some nice news to start the year, apparently, Mike Chen will be coming to All live, WRC TV, whatever:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/10-things-to-look-forward-to-in-wrc-2024/
"Rally TV bringing back a familiar face

Mike Chen’s return to WRC’s Rally TV service is definitely a positive for rally watchers right the way around planet earth. Here at DirtFish, we were fortunate enough to enjoy Chenny’s company when he joined us for Croatia’s world championship round a few years ago."

Nice! Good news indeed.

[seb_sh]

Some nice news to start the year, apparently, Mike Chen will be coming to All live, WRC TV, whatever:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/10-things-to-look-forward-to-in-wrc-2024/
"Rally TV bringing back a familiar face

Mike Chen’s return to WRC’s Rally TV service is definitely a positive for rally watchers right the way around planet earth. Here at DirtFish, we were fortunate enough to enjoy Chenny’s company when he joined us for Croatia’s world championship round a few years ago."

Hope they're refreshing the team. Anyone know where Luke Barry's going?

[becher]

idiots who try to expand the war in ukraine into sports.

This was a genuine question why it's passport related rather than license related like in other FIA championships.

[PLuto]

This was a genuine question why it's passport related rather than license related like in other FIA championships.

I think this came from formula 1 and it is used on all world championships under FIA.

[Steve Boyd]

I think this came from formula 1 and it is used on all world championships under FIA.That's true and it would have been easier for him if the licence based system formerly used on the WRC and still useed on lower status international events was still in force. All he would have needed was an address in a suitable country who would issue him with a licence. Now he needs at least dual nationality and a non-Russian passport as well.

[becher]

I think this came from formula 1 and it is used on all world championships under FIA.

Oh I didn't realize that change, can't have happend very long ago?

[Kenneth]

Oh I didn't realize that change, can't have happend very long ago?

I found a post on Autosport forum (https://forums.autosport.com/topic/36670-what-determines-nationality-of-drivers/?p=720994) that cites 2002 International Sporting Code: "All drivers, irrespective of the nationality of their licence,
participating in any FIA World Championship event, shall retain
the nationality of their passport on all official documents and in all
meetings and information bulletins."

So it's at least since 2002, but probably much, much sooner. The reason may be decision of some association that FIA is a member of, but it's really hard to find some sources about that.

[PLuto]

I found a post on Autosport forum (https://forums.autosport.com/topic/36670-what-determines-nationality-of-drivers/?p=720994) that cites 2002 International Sporting Code: "All drivers, irrespective of the nationality of their licence,
participating in any FIA World Championship event, shall retain
the nationality of their passport on all official documents and in all
meetings and information bulletins."

So it's at least since 2002, but probably much, much sooner. The reason may be decision of some association that FIA is a member of, but it's really hard to find some sources about that.

If I correctly remember, it was because some formula 1 driver had some issues with his own ASN and was forced to use different licence from different country. As they didnt want to have french driver with singapore flag (it is only example, I dont know real countries), they have changed the regulation.

[becher]

I found a post on Autosport forum (https://forums.autosport.com/topic/36670-what-determines-nationality-of-drivers/?p=720994) that cites 2002 International Sporting Code: "All drivers, irrespective of the nationality of their licence,
participating in any FIA World Championship event, shall retain
the nationality of their passport on all official documents and in all
meetings and information bulletins."

So it's at least since 2002, but probably much, much sooner. The reason may be decision of some association that FIA is a member of, but it's really hard to find some sources about that.

Oh wow, I would've never guessed.

[AndyRAC]

If I correctly remember, it was because some formula 1 driver had some issues with his own ASN and was forced to use different licence from different country. As they didnt want to have french driver with singapore flag (it is only example, I dont know real countries), they have changed the regulation.

From memory, and it's from the mid 90s I think, there was also Eddie Irvine, from Northern Ireland, with the Irish tricolour on his overalls - as that's who issued his racing licence at the time; which caused 'issues' in Northern Ireland.
I can also remember a few Audi Sport drivers with the Japanese flag, as they raced in Formula Nippon; they weren't Japanese.

[WRCStan]

I thought it was to become a sports federation of the IOC which only happened after Todt became president, and a whole ruck of crap between FIA and European Commission in that decade. It's an IOC rule anyway.

[HKSjbg]

The Rally Ireland bid is gathering momentum:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-wrc-calendar-bid-makes-step-forward/

Of the choice between Limerick, Waterford and Kerry I sincerely hope Kerry wins so we see WRC Ireland heading up Molls Gap, among other classic Rally of the Lakes stages. I checked out the proximity of Waterford to Sally Gap and Aughavannah, but it may be too long a trek without a remote service ;)

[Kenneth]

I thought it was to become a sports federation of the IOC which only happened after Todt became president, and a whole ruck of crap between FIA and European Commission in that decade. It's an IOC rule anyway.

I thought that too, but the rule was in place long before FIA become a member of the IOC.

[Eli]

The Rally Ireland bid is gathering momentum:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-wrc-calendar-bid-makes-step-forward/

Of the choice between Limerick, Waterford and Kerry I sincerely hope Kerry wins so we see WRC Ireland heading up Molls Gap, among other classic Rally of the Lakes stages. I checked out the proximity of Waterford to Sally Gap and Aughavannah, but it may be too long a trek without a remote service ;)

Some really good news, I hope it does pan out and we'll see them back in the calendar next Easter (assuming that's the slot they're targeting). Really hope this bares fruit and we'll have another (probably one of the best) tarmac round in the calendar. Craig would definitely be proud if they manage to pull it off.

[WRCStan]

I thought that too, but the rule was in place long before FIA become a member of the IOC.

I see it stemming from the European Commission ruling/agreement of that time. FIA may have put some 'sports federation' bits immediately into place for optics whilst retaining supreme authority / not bowing immediately. I doubt Bernie/Max were too happy with any of it, given that they caused it all.

Only plausible justification, which the other suggestion here has nil of.

[Jewy46]

The Rally Ireland bid is gathering momentum:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-wrc-calendar-bid-makes-step-forward/

Of the choice between Limerick, Waterford and Kerry I sincerely hope Kerry wins so we see WRC Ireland heading up Molls Gap, among other classic Rally of the Lakes stages. I checked out the proximity of Waterford to Sally Gap and Aughavannah, but it may be too long a trek without a remote service ;)

Limerick would be close enough to do some of the classic stages in Kerry also. Road section would not be that long.
Would be a fantastic event and more than likely have better stages than 2007/9 and with a better slot in the calendar meaning (hopefully) better weather.

I always felt we did not showcase how good rallying is here in 2007/9 although the events were not bad either. I just think seeing the top WRC drivers on some of the classic stages would really show the world the level the sport is at here.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish says they've contacted the Promoter for comment but on a recent podcast they said the Promoter was desperate to have an event back in the UK/Ireland.

I really hope this comes off as Ireland is a true hotbed of the sport with amazing roads and deserves to show this to the world again.

[AndyRAC]

Limerick would be close enough to do some of the classic stages in Kerry also. Road section would not be that long.
Would be a fantastic event and more than likely have better stages than 2007/9 and with a better slot in the calendar meaning (hopefully) better weather.

I always felt we did not showcase how good rallying is here in 2007/9 although the events were not bad either. I just think seeing the top WRC drivers on some of the classic stages would really show the world the level the sport is at here.


I think the slot on the calendar is important; I don't think either 2007 or 2009 were the best slots, especially in 2009 when the weather was pretty awful.

[satnav]

In this podcast Kevin talks to Aiden Harper the Motorsport Ireland President and they discuss the WRC Bid;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGkgXYGHvAs&t=1750s


There's also some more news here regarding Tralee ;

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/sport/other-sports/delegation-expected-in-kerry-this-week-to-assess-mtu-tralee-as-venue-for-wrc-service-park/a926079307.html

[HKSjbg]

I think the slot on the calendar is important; I don't think either 2007 or 2009 were the best slots, especially in 2009 when the weather was pretty awful.

Herein lies your answer: August/September


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGkgXYGHvAs&t=1750s

[EstWRC]

However, this wasn’t the Norwegian’s only offer for 2024. Mikkelsen revealed to Motorsport.com that he had an opportunity to join M-Sport on a full-time basis for this season.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/mikkelsen-why-chose-hyundai-over-msport-wrc-2024-comeback/10562108/

[Lead]

However, this wasn’t the Norwegian’s only offer for 2024. Mikkelsen revealed to Motorsport.com that he had an opportunity to join M-Sport on a full-time basis for this season.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/mikkelsen-why-chose-hyundai-over-msport-wrc-2024-comeback/10562108/

I believe long-term this was the best choice for him, but we will see.

[doubled1978]

I believe long-term this was the best choice for him, but we will see.

I bet it was a tough decision. A few rallies in a Hyundai and having to play 3rd fiddle to Neuville/Tanak or lead MSport for whole season.
Big gamble he took, but you have to admire him for backing himself to do well against those guys.

[TypeR]

If true, then it would have been more interesting to see him doing full season in M-Sport rather than 1/3 in Hyundai..
But it isn't our choice.. :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I believe long-term this was the best choice for him, but we will see.

It certainly sounds like this was the determining factor. Maybe he wants to be at Hyundai when Tanak or Neuville retires. And there's definitely some doubt over M-Sport's long-term future in the WRC.

[ictus]

It certainly sounds like this was the determining factor. Maybe he wants to be at Hyundai when Tanak or Neuville retires. And there's definitely some doubt over M-Sport's long-term future in the WRC.

Or it just shows how BAD the Puma is ;)

[mousti]

Suninen and Lindholm will continue in WRC2 for Hyundai, the i20 Rally2 will be serviced by CHL auto. French team that is known thanks to Yoan Bonato.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

On one hand WRC2 is actually exciting with Skoda, Hyundai, Citroen and Toyota having competitive lineups, buton the other hand because of the WRC2 rules they might not actually race each other too often...

[TypeR]

Any backstory about rally1 car seat fitting that guy and Neuville posting it..?

https://www.upload.ee/image/16140841/Screenshot_20240108_203856_Instagram.jpg

[Eli]

Any backstory about rally1 car seat fitting that guy and Neuville posting it..?

https://www.upload.ee/image/16140841/Screenshot_20240108_203856_Instagram.jpg

New co-driver?? Again??

[rallyfiend]

I think that’s one of Thierry’s mates.

Perhaps he is going for a ride at testing.

[WRCStan]

He's not just a random mate, Florian Haut-Labourdette (https://www.ewrc-results.com/coprofile/17512-florian-haut-labourdette/)

[TypeR]

Yes, I also checked the ewrc stats.. but why extra bring that seat fitting out :D
But ok, we'll find it out soon.

[SubaruNorway]

Back up co driver, seat fitting for a test day probably, also does the gravel notes if I'm not wrong?

[PLuto]

This is nothing special. Drivers usually use also spare codrivers during testing.

[TypeR]

Yes.. but spare co-drivers don't need special seat fitting for 100kms :D + extra post on social media.. You sit in the car, maybe put some cushions.. do the test and good night :D

[CeskyOndra]

Why would he change Martijn? Martijn was posting few days ago that he is looking forward to Monte.

[PLuto]

Yes.. but spare co-drivers don't need special seat fitting for 100kms :D + extra post on social media.. You sit in the car, maybe put some cushions.. do the test and good night :D

Maybe you will be surprised, but some codrivers "only for test" has their own seats...

[TypeR]

Maybe you will be surprised, but some codrivers "only for test" has their own seats...
Yea okay, I understand that they have to be locked in there and seat has to match + he seems taller/bigger also than Wydaeghe..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally Ireland, pending funding, will be hosted in 3 different locations from 2025 to 2027 in Waterford, Tralee & Limerick respectively.

Fingers crossed the Irish Government allocates the required cash.

[Eli]

Rally Ireland, pending funding, will be hosted in 3 different locations from 2025 to 2027 in Waterford, Tralee & Limerick respectively.

Fingers crossed the Irish Government allocates the required cash.

And here it is black on white:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rotating-host-system-revealed-for-irish-wrc-bid/

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/venues-selected-for-three-year-wrc-rally-ireland-bid/10564056/

Really, really hope this pans out.

[bluuford]

Maybe you will be surprised, but some codrivers "only for test" has their own seats...

Well, I am a bit heavier than Ott and I have sat in his seat in recce car to check some sensor performance.. I can tell you that sometimes the right seat is very much needed.. I managed to sit in, but I almost needed crane to get out from the car, luckily I am doing a lot of cross-country skiing and my hands are strong... so, by using the support of safety cage tubes on top of drivers head, I was able to escape from the seat without external help :P

[er88]

Rally Ireland, pending funding, will be hosted in 3 different locations from 2025 to 2027 in Waterford, Tralee & Limerick respectively.

Fingers crossed the Irish Government allocates the required cash.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Every year we get fed the same old shite from Ireland, yet the governments dont care!

[Jewy46]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Every year we get fed the same old shite from Ireland, yet the governments dont care!

Different government, different country.....

Last few years the proposal has been for Rally Northern Ireland, which relied on support for the NI assembly which was always going to be difficult.

Rally Ireland is a totally different proposition put forward by a different governing body in a different jurisdiction. The 2 are not linked in any way.
Sorry but I felt the need to explain.

Anyway your point is somewhat valid, we do have to wait for IRISH government support to make this happen, but the signs are positive.

[Jewy46]

Double post

[EstWRC]

Tanak: New WRC points system won’t change approach, but win means less

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/tanak-new-wrc-points-system-wont-change-approach-but-win-means-less/10564371/

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240111/bce57a5b962e5bc8704a4579216601b9.jpg

[skarderud]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240111/bce57a5b962e5bc8704a4579216601b9.jpgInteresting to see his real speed.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[TypeR]

so Skoda managed to keep/get better line-up than Toyota.. I tought it would be otherway round.
Will be interesting to see 3 youngster with rally1 car experience in same car and going for wins! Hopefully they drive on same(mostly) events also.

[typhoon]

Just noticed that WRC "lost" the official timepiece. If even no company is interested in being visible through all the live broadcasts on screen, there's actually something wrong with the series...

[Eli]

Just noticed that WRC "lost" the official timepiece. If even no company is interested in being visible through all the live broadcasts on screen, there's actually something wrong with the series...

Timepiece or timekeepers?

[typhoon]

TW Steel... a timepiece brand is usually easy to attach to a motorsport series, because usually it can have a lot of TV exposure on graphics and banners through the corners. That's quite a bad sign IMHO.

[Eli]

TW Steel... a timepiece brand is usually easy to attach to a motorsport series, because usually it can have a lot of TV exposure on graphics and banners through the corners. That's quite a bad sign IMHO.

No chance getting Certina back ey?

[bomber21]

They had Anonimo and then TW Steel. None of them produced a normal price watch normal people could buy. I never understood this.

[EstWRC]

Long interview with Evans by dirtfish

https://youtu.be/GYU3W16Mrs0?si=-GUPX9tLHXRn3viX

[rallyfiend]

Full respect to his skills as a driver, but listening to this can help cure anyone suffering from insomnia.....

[seb_sh]

Long interview with Evans by dirtfish

https://youtu.be/GYU3W16Mrs0?si=-GUPX9tLHXRn3viX

Some interesting things there in the second part. Says the points system devalues the win, it was too extreme as there were simpler solutions and and there are other more important issues. He says Rally1 was a wrong move as it's too expensive with space frame and carbon panels, removing the hybrid wouldn't change much. Says rally2 is not the way but something inbetween that's fast but cheap should be the way forward.

[PLuto]

Some interesting things there in the second part. Says the points system devalues the win, it was too extreme as there were simpler solutions and and there are other more important issues. He says Rally1 was a wrong move as it's too expensive with space frame and carbon panels, removing the hybrid wouldn't change much. Says rally2 is not the way but something inbetween that's fast but cheap should be the way forward.

With all this words I agree.

[EstWRC]

HYUNDAI PLANNING NEW CAR FOR WRC 2025

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-planning-new-car-for-wrc-2025/

[WRCStan]

HYUNDAI PLANNING NEW CAR FOR WRC 2025

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-planning-new-car-for-wrc-2025/

Nothing Cyril says can justify that article title or attaching David's own Rally2 campaign to Hyundai.

With exactly the same of Cyril's words, you can craft a post titled HYUNDAI BACK RALLY1 FOR WRC 2025, because they say they are developing the current car under the current regulations and are not considering homologating a new one.

Sick of this.

EDIT: Article looks to be edited to a fairer write up.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Some interesting things there in the second part. Says the points system devalues the win, it was too extreme as there were simpler solutions and and there are other more important issues. He says Rally1 was a wrong move as it's too expensive with space frame and carbon panels, removing the hybrid wouldn't change much. Says rally2 is not the way but something inbetween that's fast but cheap should be the way forward.

Yes, a good summary.

Interesting what he says about the high cost of using a spaceframe when some on here say it's cheaper than using a road car. Not in Rally1 it seems.

And something in between ?! Why are they discussing "Rally2" as the top class when the change would be to "Rally2 PLUS" ie. with a bigger restrictor and rear spoiler?

[seb_sh]

Yes, a good summary.

Interesting what he says about the high cost of using a spaceframe when some on here say it's cheaper than using a road car. Not in Rally1 it seems.

And something in between ?! Why are they discussing "Rally2" as the top class when the change would be to "Rally2 PLUS" ie. with a bigger restrictor and rear spoiler?

Might it be the carbon panels that are the main culprit for driving costs up?

[macebig]

Carbon is definitely part of the high costs. Rally cars lose bits everywhere and carbon bits cannot be repaired on the cheap like plastic or metal ones.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans says 'everything we have is massively expensive"..

But if it is mainly the carbon fibre panels surely the rules could've easily banned them and have them made of metal ?

[HKSjbg]

How cheaply can you make all bespoke body panels though? The Puma is most obvious example where the overall look of the road car is the same, but how much is actually shared with it?

Other than lights, do they have to use a standard (modified) bonnet? Windows? The wings and doors clearly aren’t based on the road car shape as the height of the bonnet and flanks of a Puma are much lower on the Rally1 version than the road car.

[Tauri_J]

They need to introduce lots of spec parts to try to keep costs down.

[denkimi]

nobody is stopping them from making those parts in polyester and saving a lot of money.

[Steve Boyd]

How cheaply can you make all bespoke body panels though? The Puma is most obvious example where the overall look of the road car is the same, but how much is actually shared with it?

Other than lights, do they have to use a standard (modified) bonnet? Windows? The wings and doors clearly aren’t based on the road car shape as the height of the bonnet and flanks of a Puma are much lower on the Rally1 version than the road car.These space frame cars don't have to be the same size as the production model - a rule intended to encourage maufacturers that didn't have a car the right size to fit the Rally1 dimensions to enter a look-alike of a slightly bigger model. That means all bespoke panels which rules out metal panels because of the tooling costs to make them.


nobody is stopping them from making those parts in polyester and saving a lot of money.Requiring the body panels to be GRP and banning carbon would make some cost savings on the material but the tooling and labour would still be the same so the saving wouldn't be as big as you might expect.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEeW6Q8W4AEzvZg?format=jpg&name=medium

[CeskyOndra]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEeW6Q8W4AEzvZg?format=jpg&name=medium

Its gonna be pretty much hard to beat Toyota in Sweden

[EstWRC]

Heard that last year too…

[rp]

Its gonna be pretty much hard to beat Toyota in Sweden

Tänak is simply faster.

[spyros]

Tänak is simply faster.


Faster than Kalle? i dont think so.

[CeskyOndra]

Kalle will be unbeatable this season I think. Yes, Tanak was always good in Sweden, but road position here is the decider and Kalle has nothing to loose

[Rallyest]

https://sport.postimees.ee/7944190/rovanpera-ei-teegi-hooaja-avastarti-rootsis?fbclid=IwAR1fcyFx1WvvBRGdNe8sF3wSFtioV42L8 TAmiCTZFJ_G82zfZj5cpeFU2E8

Maybe someone from estonia sees behind the paywall what the sources are or the headline is just clickbait(big chance because this is postimees) but the headline is "Kalle wont start his season in Sweden"

Edit: i think the big clickbait probably refers to that he will begin his "season" at arctic. But maybe someone can confirm it

[maailmameister]

This means that Kalle will start the season at the Arctic Lapland rally

[Managarium]

Today in facebook group WRC WORLD, there was post about that Loeb is gonna drive for M-Sport in Portugal.

Sadly, the post was deleted so I can't put source or it is a fake news.

[CeskyOndra]

I heard this also, yesterday, so hopefully it is true!

[wwbroe]

I have also seen this: 2507

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-points-system-isnt-complex-just-missold/

The new system isn’t stupid, it’s just not explained correctly….

[TypeR]

That Loeb post was deleted quite fast and I understood it was based on 2022 news, so most likely just false information..

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-back-to-the-wrc-in-portugal/

[wyler]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-points-system-isnt-complex-just-missold/

The new system isn’t stupid, it’s just not explained correctly….

agreed. if they had said "it's the same with some bonus assigned after the race" there would have been no fuss at all!

[Mirek]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-points-system-isnt-complex-just-missold/

The new system isn’t stupid, it’s just not explained correctly….

A scoring system which needs correct explanation to be understandable is inherently stupid.

[Katvala]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-points-system-isnt-complex-just-missold/

The new system isn’t stupid, it’s just not explained correctly….I'm not aversed to a change in point system. I'd just wish the points were given for overall on Sunday instead. Super Sunday is an alright addition. But in this case, Sundays should be longer than they are today

Sent from my M2012K11G using Tapatalk

[PLuto]

For me, the best solution with points should be:

- points for general win after Sunday (like in the past, 30-24-21 etc)
- bonus points for Sunday (no problem if 10-8-6 etc)
- no points for powerstage

[denkimi]

Any point system that i can't explain to a novice is a stupid point system.

And this is an especially stupid system, awarding way too many points for just 3 stages and 50km.

[Rallyest]

Any point system that i can't explain to a novice is a stupid point system.

And this is an especially stupid system, awarding way too many points for just 3 stages and 50km.

Exactly, i tried to explain the new points system to my girlfriend who occasionly watches rally with me, and i seriously couldnt explain it in few sentences, and that is the main problem with the new system. Otherwise i like it and if you are inside the WRC all the time it is fairly simple, but it doesnt help with the new fans.

But based on monte it did bring me to wake up at 8am on a sunday to watch rally, last year i rarely forced myself to wake up for the first stage since everybody was cruising. atleast on power stage rehearsal you could see somewhat faster driving. But now the whole sunday was interesting.

[CeskyOndra]

For me, the best solution with points should be:

- points for general win after Sunday (like in the past, 30-24-21 etc)
- bonus points for Sunday (no problem if 10-8-6 etc)
- no points for powerstage

Lol, cancel power stage?

[seb_sh]

I would ask if we are focusing too much on the Sunday cruising and messing up other things to fix that one particular issue. For example this weekend there was no mention of the Sunday standings and points except for drivers saying that they are "going for Sunday points" instead of "saving tyres for the powerstage". If it's just a perception issue maybe it would have been easier to simply not take the interviews :P Anyway my feeling is there is a big controvery about this also inside the FIA, competitors and promoter and it seems to have been done out of panic.

Since we had the proper battle for the rally win the Sunday points got mostly ignored, maybe they will focus on them more if there are 30s gaps overall between most drives to have some discussion point. For that situation i guess they're fine, but the way it is now the "real" fight for the win had no rewards attached. It will be an interesting discussion if the Saturday leader has a puncture Sunday morning, changes the wheel and then wins the Powerstage - that'll be 23 points for someone finishing 2 minutes down overall... I guess for some if it doesn't happen it's ok but for me that this possibility exists and is not some strange 1 in a million chance is a black mark.

If they gave the 18 points for the winner at the end of Sunday instead of Saturday this system would be acceptable for me but as it is it just pisses me off. Sorry for repeating myself, I might need to take a step back and follow the rallies "from a distance".

[wyler]

Exactly, i tried to explain the new points system to my girlfriend who occasionly watches rally with me, and i seriously couldnt explain it in few sentences, and that is the main problem with the new system. Otherwise i like it and if you are inside the WRC all the time it is fairly simple, but it doesnt help with the new fans.

But based on monte it did bring me to wake up at 8am on a sunday to watch rally, last year i rarely forced myself to wake up for the first stage since everybody was cruising. atleast on power stage rehearsal you could see somewhat faster driving. But now the whole sunday was interesting.

try this "it's the same with some bonus assigned after the race"

[seb_sh]

try this "it's the same with some bonus assigned after the race"

but that's not at all what it is, is it?

so the solution to explaining this points system is either to ignore it or lie?

[wyler]

but that's not at all what it is, is it?



sorry, why not?

winner of the rally is still the best time overall. then there's the point allocation, based on the final results on sunday ( no point from saturday if dnf on sunday). some bonus apply. it's just a different point allocation, i don't see that much of a revolution...

[Andre Oliveira]

Agree. The winner need have (more) points.

[Eli]

On a different matter, now they're aiming for 2026-2027: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/rally-usa-sets-sights-on-joining-wrc-in-2026/10570631/

[ik1911]

For me, the best solution with points should be:

- points for general win after Sunday (like in the past, 30-24-21 etc)
- bonus points for Sunday (no problem if 10-8-6 etc)
- no points for powerstage

OR
- points for overall clasification after Sunday ( like in the past, 20-15-12-10 etc)
- bonus points for Sunday ( 5-4-3-2-1)
- points for powerstage (5-4-3-2-1), with no confusion with saturday results!

For example : in case that Ogier lead after saturday ( only 3,3s sec different), even Thierry overall winner, only Sunday winner, and Power stage winner ,both had 27 points, with clear win of Neuville.
I´m afraid that will be case this season in sure!

[PLuto]

OR
- points for overall clasification after Sunday ( like in the past, 20-15-12-10 etc)
- bonus points for Sunday ( 5-4-3-2-1)
- points for powerstage (5-4-3-2-1), with no confusion with saturday results!

For example : in case that Ogier lead after saturday ( only 3,3s sec different), even Thierry overall winner, only Sunday winner, and Power stage winner ,both had 27 points, with clear win of Neuville.
I´m afraid that will be case this season in sure!

For me, Sunday is so short that it is not necessary to give bonus points twice...

[TypeR]

For me, Sunday is so short that it is not necessary to give bonus points twice...
Especially if we take this year's Sardegna stages and distance vs points. Totally unfair.

Fri + Sat = 227km = 18p
Sun = 39km = 12p

[Steve Boyd]

Why don't they just add up all the times on all of the rallies and the crew & manufacturer with the lowest total at the end of the season wins. You'd have to give some form of penalty time for stages missed after retirement but they do that already with SR times for those who miss parts of a day anyway, so that's nothing new. OK there might be some "whole rally cruising" at the end of the season if somebody is hours ahead but that kind of happens with points if somebody sews-up the championship with a few rounds to go. It would certainly keep everybody "on-it" at the beginning of the season if every stage second lost was lost from the championship total.

[ictus]

Especially if we take this year's Sardegna stages and distance vs points. Totally unfair.

Fri + Sat = 227km = 18p
Sun = 39km = 12p

Unfair to who exactly? If some drivers started only fri+sat and some only on sun than it would be unfair...
IT'S EQUAL TO EVERYONE

[EstWRC]

Hyundai will provide a i20 N more tailored to Ott Tanak in Sweden after the team’s new signing battled throttle mapping issues at the World Rally Championship season opener.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-provide-wrc-car-more-tailored-to-tanak-in-sweden/10571238/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai will provide a i20 N more tailored to Ott Tanak in Sweden after the team’s new signing battled throttle mapping issues at the World Rally Championship season opener.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-provide-wrc-car-more-tailored-to-tanak-in-sweden/10571238/

"Hyundai team principal Cyril Abiteboul admitted he was concerned by the engine dramas his team suffered in Monte Carlo, but also believed Tanak’s driving style contributed to the 2019 world champion’s struggles in adapting to the i20 N."

[bluuford]

Many people have agreed that points system is way too complicated. One fun fact was that if someone is ending on the same points after Monte, who is starting first in Sweden? Previously it was based on previous rally position/points.. but now there are no more position points in general, so what, just based on general standings, standings that will not give you points? :)

I would repeat one solution, maybe easiest way again (Pluto, I know that promoter does not care, but it makes things more fun).
1. You give the points exactly the same like before. Same points on Sunday overall classification.
2. Sunday first 1-3 stages (depends on how many stages are before) run as qualification for Powerstage. The one who is leader before powerstage will run as last on the road. The others behind may select their starting positions based on Sunday results (best time chooses first, worst time chooses last). This selection can be done during this very long regroup and can be presented as proper show :)
Now everybody must push from morning till evening on Sunday

About tyre saving in Monte, most of the WRC crews started it in SS1, or even on SD :P

[PLuto]

Many people have agreed that points system is way too complicated. One fun fact was that if someone is ending on the same points after Monte, who is starting first in Sweden? Previously it was based on previous rally position/points.. but now there are no more position points in general, so what, just based on general standings, standings that will not give you points? :)

I would repeat one solution, maybe easiest way again (Pluto, I know that promoter does not care, but it makes things more fun).
1. You give the points exactly the same like before. Same points on Sunday overall classification.
2. Sunday first 1-3 stages (depends on how many stages are before) run as qualification for Powerstage. The one who is leader before powerstage will run as last on the road. The others behind may select their starting positions based on Sunday results (best time chooses first, worst time chooses last). This selection can be done during this very long regroup and can be presented as proper show :)
Now everybody must push from morning till evening on Sunday

About tyre saving in Monte, most of the WRC crews started it in SS1, or even on SD :P

One more note. I know it it happening in ERC, but now I have seen in WRC - in fact nobody is interested who is winner of powerstage. On final podium after powerstage they are always presenting mainly top three of the event. Thus they need to start in last stage in reverse order of general classification - to have winner of the rally as the last car on the start.

And to your question regarding who will start first, no matter the stupid points system, if there are drivers with same amount of points, better is still driver who finished whole rally on better position. So at least some small reward for being good in final results...

[Managarium]

Serderidis is back in Puma in Safari rally.

Posted on his facebook

[seb_sh]

Many people have agreed that points system is way too complicated. One fun fact was that if someone is ending on the same points after Monte, who is starting first in Sweden? Previously it was based on previous rally position/points.. but now there are no more position points in general, so what, just based on general standings, standings that will not give you points? :)

I would repeat one solution, maybe easiest way again (Pluto, I know that promoter does not care, but it makes things more fun).
1. You give the points exactly the same like before. Same points on Sunday overall classification.
2. Sunday first 1-3 stages (depends on how many stages are before) run as qualification for Powerstage. The one who is leader before powerstage will run as last on the road. The others behind may select their starting positions based on Sunday results (best time chooses first, worst time chooses last). This selection can be done during this very long regroup and can be presented as proper show :)
Now everybody must push from morning till evening on Sunday

About tyre saving in Monte, most of the WRC crews started it in SS1, or even on SD :P

On first read that would actually be clever without messing around too much with paralel standings and strange points. I'm not so sure about choosing the start position, also I'm not sure what would happen on tarmac rallies (maybe starting first is better if the road gets dirty) or if it rains.

[bluuford]

On first read that would actually be clever without messing around too much with paralel standings and strange points. I'm not so sure about choosing the start position, also I'm not sure what would happen on tarmac rallies (maybe starting first is better if the road gets dirty) or if it rains.

Yes, I was thinking about it. This adds additional unknown factor here :) is it going to rain? is it going to rain later, maybe too late? are we ready to gamble? And in most cases, last driver to drive will be also event winner, like Pluto wanted to have it on the podium ;)

[PLuto]

Yes, I was thinking about it. This adds additional unknown factor here :) is it going to rain? is it going to rain later, maybe too late? are we ready to gamble? And in most cases, last driver to drive will be also event winner, like Pluto wanted to have it on the podium ;)

Not me, this cames from promoter/FIA side. I never liked the scheme of powerstage, which destroyed whole Sunday on WRC races. I understand it is good for promotion, but that is all. When they brought it to ERC, I was really surprised they were not celebrating winner of powerstage on the events. On most of the ERC events, winner of power stage is almost not mentioned, he doesnt receive any cup or prize. Nothing, only points...

[typhoon]

I was reading some Italian reports about a test rally to be held in Paraguay, which will be observed by FIA and WRC Promoter, in order to be added to the 2025 calendar. Any news about that?

[Andre Oliveira]

20th September

https://www.versus.com.py/hoy/2024/02/02/operativo-wrc-2025-en-marcha-una-comitiva-oficial-ya-marca-presencia-en-itapua/

[typhoon]

It looks like something is going on over the pond, since selling early-morning TV coverage is not really breaking into the American market. Having more events at "their" timezones would drastically improve this aspect. But at the same time it would force some events in Europe to be dropped. I'm just thinking about one between Croatia-Poland-Latvia, which can be all of them in case Mexico will be able to get back to the WRC and US rally in Tennessee will go forward.

[Gregor-y]

I think there will be a snow rally in Quebec before anything in the US no matter how much money Chattanooga is going to provide. There's no event to form a basis for a WRC event in Tennessee. The Canadian series doesn't have as much publicity but it's got more money and good organization. The CBC also produces and broadcasts events.

[Eli]

Hopefully Ireland will pull it off, however, Saudi Arabia looks also to be in the cards for next year: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-countries-poised-for-wrc-inclusion-in-2025/

Also Paraguay as some rumors have been floating around last week.

[HKSjbg]

Two South American rounds planned. Meanwhile they’re busy dropping North America off this year’s calendar for no good reason…

[Managarium]

���� PARAGUAY ➡️ WRC 2025
Paraguay will host a WRC event from 2025. Organizers have reached a three-year agreement to have a slot on the calendar until 2027.
The organizers have reached an economic agreement but the final details are missing to finalize:
•FIA emissaries will be sent to Paraguay to attend two races (one of which is the Trans Itapua Rally) which will be a “test” for the organizers in preparation for a WRC event.
•The FIA is conducting inspections to verify whether the healthcare and hotel capacities of the territories that will host the WRC race are sufficient.
The race proposed to the FIA is made up of 320 kilometers of special stages, will take place in Encarnación and will also take place in the areas of Cambyretá, Nueva Alborada, Santísima Trinidad, Colonias Unidas, Carmen del Paraná and General Arigas.
The Paraguayan event is expected to take the slot of the Rally Chile whose contract is due to expire at the end of the 2024 season.

https://www.facebook.com/wrctvitaly

[jcevc]

���� PARAGUAY ➡️ WRC 2025
Paraguay will host a WRC event from 2025. Organizers have reached a three-year agreement to have a slot on the calendar until 2027.
The organizers have reached an economic agreement but the final details are missing to finalize:
•FIA emissaries will be sent to Paraguay to attend two races (one of which is the Trans Itapua Rally) which will be a “test” for the organizers in preparation for a WRC event.
•The FIA is conducting inspections to verify whether the healthcare and hotel capacities of the territories that will host the WRC race are sufficient.
The race proposed to the FIA is made up of 320 kilometers of special stages, will take place in Encarnación and will also take place in the areas of Cambyretá, Nueva Alborada, Santísima Trinidad, Colonias Unidas, Carmen del Paraná and General Arigas.
The Paraguayan event is expected to take the slot of the Rally Chile whose contract is due to expire at the end of the 2024 season.

https://www.facebook.com/wrctvitaly

What about such itinerary? :D
https://www.ewrc-results.com/timetable/76092-petrobras-transchaco-rally-50-aniversario-2022/

[focus206]

What about such itinerary? :D
https://www.ewrc-results.com/timetable/76092-petrobras-transchaco-rally-50-aniversario-2022/

Transchaco is a Safari-like rally, many Kms, rough, cars with snorkels and bumper protections... Trans Itapua is a more "regular" rally.

[jcevc]

Transchaco is a Safari-like rally, many Kms, rough, cars with snorkels and bumper protections... Trans Itapua is a more "regular" rally.

I know, just dreaming about not so `ordinary WRC round´... :)

[EstWRC]

Arguably the best news for Tänak was the feeling for the future.

“For myself,” he said, “I still need to make it work – but at least I see it’s not too far away. It’s more things we need to prepare better for [the next Tarmac event in] Croatia and for sure it was a good experience this weekend to do the mileage and understand the car.



“The car is definitely competitive. We will still have quite a few topics to discuss where I’d like to believe we can still improve quite a bit, but altogether I guess already, as a base, the job they’ve done last year is good. The car has been fine-tuned and it’s in a good window.”

The job Tänak has now is to clean that window to make it more useable, to make the car faster and faster. Being in the set-up ballpark is great, but those final details and percentages are where the stage wins, rally wins and championship wins come from.

He knows that. “If you are in a better window and more confident, you can start pushing a bit as well.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-tanaks-in-a-good-place-after-his-tricky-monte/

[Gregor-y]

And no sooner so I say the Tennessee event is fiction when a demonstration event is announced for June...

[lmmjvss]

that Qatar Rally always get some attention and international entries... Cant WRC add it to the schedule?

[Eli]

that Qatar Rally always get some attention and international entries... Cant WRC add it to the schedule?

Seems they’re more keen about Saudi Arabia…

[TypeR]

How to screw your driver and show that he doesn't matter a cent.
Sad for Evans as he has to fight for the title against own team's ,,half-ass-seasoners''.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/should-toyota-use-team-orders-to-help-evans/

Latvala:

''We have only Elfyn who can really go for the title, but we believe in a fair game and we want to have a fair fight between the drivers, so we don’t do any tactical changes.”

“The manufacturers’ championship, if you think about our driver line-up, we would have chances for that. It’s where I think we can really challenge. But going for the drivers’ title, the thing is that Elfyn has to be alone.”

Even if it so, then just don't say it out loud. Can't imagine how demotivating it is for Evans..

Ofc telling Kalle or Ogier to give away 1st place isn't a thing as that is the only reaaon they drive this year. Although this would also be a thing on let's say.. last 2 event or so.

[WRCStan]

Or maybe what he says out loud is to appease fans who can't tolerate team orders.

[seb_sh]

Or maybe what he says out loud is to appease fans who can't tolerate team orders.

maybe, maybe they are willing to sacrifice this year's driver's championship, targetting the manufacturers title and expecting Rovanpera will come back strong in future years

also, a while ago in a post I made I looked into Evan's rally wins and most of them were taken in circumstances where he made the best of an unusual circumstance. Plus he is a type of driver that is "always there" even if he doesn't often have the best absolute speed. If we apply those characteristics to the championship then 2024 might be "for him" considering Hyundai has 2 top drivers that will inevitably fight against each other and Toyota will always have a top driver with good road position, and add to that the unusual points system, 2024 might just be right up Evan's alley. Furthermore if it comes to it in the 2nd half once Ogier and Rovanpera got some wins they might switch strategy. In a way it's the most intriguing season in a long time.

[wyler]

looks like there is a kind of "roadbook" video also for toyota, from katsuta engineer, but seems more focused on the meal...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-LlpT9fgs

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Scotland now approached for Rally GB...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGXlUWEWMAAnf0n?format=jpg&name=large

[rallyfiend]

Scotland now approached for Rally GB...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGXlUWEWMAAnf0n?format=jpg&name=large

These guys have only hurt rallying in the UK. Hence why David Richard's inclusion in the 'Working Group' for WRC is so baffling.

I wouldn't believe much that come of these guy's mouths...

[TypeR]

Rovanpera showing his new helmet and that was interesting part :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGYDPsUXkAAZJod?format=jpg&name=small

30p from Sweden, good starting pos in Kenya, then starting 1st in Croatia and why not go for the third star :D

[EstWRC]

the guy is just having a laugh at others. but he can afford it

[Eli]

As previously talked about last year the Central European Rally will be held between the 17th-20th of October (Subject to FIA & ADAC approval): https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/penultimate-wrc-2024-round-requests-date-change/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suninen planning for Rally1 return but waits an opportunity or needs budget...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/suninens-plan-for-another-top-level-wrc-comeback/

[AndyRAC]

Scotland now approached for Rally GB...



Hmm, interesting.....you'd think EventScotland would have been approached, and would be behind any bid. However, is it good 'value for money?' The cycling 'SuperWorlds' in Scotland, in August was a success....does rallying have that kind of draw?

[EstWRC]

Hyundai is not expecting the engine issues that hampered Ott Tanak in Monte Carlo to return when the World Rally Championship continues in Sweden this weekend.

Hyundai has since identified the issue but it is likely the problem will only be completely rectified through the homologation of new software which Hyundai plans to have in place in time for the next asphalt rally in Croatia in April.

Abiteboul added: "We managed to understand the problem and it is a real problem. It is not like it is because of the way he is driving, yes, it is more visible on his car because of the way he is driving, but it is a problem that needs to be addressed on our side.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-confident-tanaks-wrc-engine-issue-wont-return-in-sweden/10576250/

[HKSjbg]

Scotland now approached for Rally GB...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGXlUWEWMAAnf0n?format=jpg&name=large

There was a story ages ago about Hugh Chambers saying Scottish tarmac would be the long term aim after the (now dead in the water) NI bid to run Rally ‘UK’. I will have to download this issue of MN and read the detail.

I’m not the biggest fan of the Jim Clark Rally as a spectacle, which I would assume would form the basis of a potential WRC round, would much prefer to see a Perth-based gravel ‘RSAC Scottish Rally GB’ running in the first weekend of June :D

[WRCStan]

I love this 'SNP Rally GB'.

Drinks for everybody here if it happens.

[er88]

Rally Scotland would be class, but not tarmac when the country has some of the best gravel roads in the world. An event around Perth/stirling like the IRC days would give options up and down the country, especially if we are moving away from having a need to return to a central service as much as possible.

Stages like Craigvinean, Drummond Hill, Errochty etc north of perth, the trossachs stages west of stirling, and then you could spend a day further south or up to the aberdeenshire forests. Knockhill race track & Scone Palace etc could be used.

Doubt the motorsport uk goons will get anywhere though, years of these news articles or soundbites and we have got nowhere with "rallygb", while they've also let the british championship die a death.

[Steve Boyd]

And, don't forget, a ceremonial start in Blythswood Square!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Officials met with MSUK in Sweden re Scotland...

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-meets-with-motorsport-uk-to-discuss-rally-gb-revival-in-scotland/10577721/

[AndyRAC]

WRC Officials met with MSUK in Sweden re Scotland...

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-meets-with-motorsport-uk-to-discuss-rally-gb-revival-in-scotland/10577721/

They can meet all they like, and have all kinds of grand plans, it won't solve the issue of "Who's paying to host it?"

[rallyfiend]

They can meet all they like, and have all kinds of grand plans, it won't solve the issue of "Who's paying to host it?"

“We met with David [Richards] and Hugh Chambers and had some very initial discussions,” WRC event director Simon Larkin told Autosport/Motorsport.com. “I would say it’s at very, very initial stages from their side. We’ll just continue to work with them.

This seems like a defining statement. MSUK put something on the front page of a magazine, but no one else thinks there's any reality to it...

[EstWRC]

“I think the way that he’s driving the car is exposing [an issue], but it’s exposing a weakness of the car, nothing else. Let’s not put it the other way around.

“The first thing we need to do is to fix that weakness, to fix that issue, which is an issue that’s been here for a while. But because the car was, in our opinion, so good in Monte Carlo, [Tänak] was capable of pushing certain areas that he was not pushing two years ago when he was driving that same car with that same software.


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-we-wont-ask-tanak-to-change/

[Mackie]

So, EP is going to participate in Safari Kenya. I was not expecting that, is it a sign that Sordo won't have many outings in 24?

[Eli]

So, EP is going to participate in Safari Kenya. I was not expecting that, is it a sign that Sordo won't have many outings in 24?

I think it was said about a month ago that Sordo would do 3-4 rallies and he himself (if I recall correctly, might be wrong) said he'd start in Portugal.

[seb_sh]

So first impression, the working group didn't screw up I'm actually overall surprised and impressed:

https://www.fia.com/news/technologies-and-strategies-future-set-out-first-world-motor-sport-council-meeting-2024

[typhoon]

Finally, finally, FINALLY they understood the WRC Promoter is not doing its job well! Finally someone pointed this issue out!

There's a bunch of marketing tools still unexplored that NEEDS to be explored. Further Social Media development, reshuffle of actual TV Media Mix (more Free-To-Air broadcasts now!), on-event attractions and entertainment both at the Service Park and on arenas in Special Stages, etc.

Look at Formula 1: multiple hospitality packages, co-driver rides, VIP experiences, memorabilia, merchandising, online engagement, movies/series, showruns in city centers... those things can get loads of money in ROI (return of investment), it's time for the WRC Promoter to step up!

[macebig]

So, we re going to a Rally 2+ and Rally 1- combination for the next season. It pretty much confirms the death of Rally 1, but they will maintain the spaceframe and introduce a cost cap. The "manufacturers and tuners" wording is very interesting as is the opening of the service park. Steps in the right direction,imo, but still a long way to go.

[lmmjvss]

Im suddenly optimistic haha First the new team on youtube, now this.
This Rally2+/Rally1- sounds ok. I can see Msport selling more stuff, I can see Petter/Oliver buidling one of these Rally2+... I can see Paddon doing it? AlAtyah? Prodrive? Citroen and Skoda...? Interesting. Damm, I hate being optismit haha

[Eli]

I think this has gone a bit under the radar: https://dirtfish.com/learn/women-in-motorsport/fia-names-solberg-as-wrc-commission-president/

[WRCStan]

I think this has gone a bit under the radar: https://dirtfish.com/learn/women-in-motorsport/fia-names-solberg-as-wrc-commission-president/

Not really, there's a lot to read in the WMSC brief, there's a presser (https://www.fia.com/wmsc-commission-presidents)and Dirtfish knew about it in advance to announce what, about an hour or so ago.

[Myrvold]

So first impression, the working group didn't screw up I'm actually overall surprised and impressed:

https://www.fia.com/news/technologies-and-strategies-future-set-out-first-world-motor-sport-council-meeting-2024

At the same time, there are some curious bits.


The cost per car will be capped at €400,000 and WRC manufacturers will be required to make their cars available for sale directly from the finish parc fermé of a WRC event.


This almost sounds like Bilcross/Folkrace where every car (with some exceptions) can be bought at the track after the race, and the owner cannot say no. But it can't mean that? What if a team loses all their cars?


The global calendar may include a small number of shorter sprint-style and longer endurance events in addition to the rallies that follow the existing format. Nevertheless, the overall timed kilometres covered during a season will remain largely unchanged with events still organised on a mix of asphalt, gravel and snow.


I fear this will lead to a lot more sprint-events, and with the FIA seemingly looking to expand the calendar, more short events will still give the "overall timed kilometres largely unchanged".


The current Rally1 car will continue as the WRC’s flagship vehicle in both 2025 and 2026 but with modifications to reduce cost and performance. These include the removal of the plug-in hybrid unit, with the performance compensated by a reduction in overall weight, and a reduction in the air restrictor and aerodynamics.


Rally2 cars will continue in their current form for the duration of their homologation as the basis for national and international series. However, Rally2 cars competing on WRC events from 2025 and beyond will have an option to run with a WRC kit consisting of a larger restrictor, a larger exhaust, an optional paddle shift gearbox and a rear wing with the objective of reducing the performance gap between Rally1 and Rally2 cars.


From 2026, revised Rally1 technical regulations for the WRC’s top-level category will be introduced based on the current Rally1 concept. These regulations will run alongside the current Rally1 regulations for the 2026 season.


This sounds like a small mess tbh. While the current Rally1 cars will be cheaper and easier to run. Who will spend loads of money on a concept that will last for a maximum of 2 years, with a new concept with a set price coming after just one year?
Rally2+ thing sounds interesting, but is it meant to actually compete with the new Rally1 concept in 2026? If so, why make two classes and not just make Rally2+ the main thing? If not, who will take the risk on spending money on such a kit for one year? It has also been tried before with the RRC->WRC, and that wasn't exactly much success either.

In a way it feels like they should've just gone with "some modifications to make Rally1 cheaper for 2025, and a new ruleset for 2026". I think that would've made it more viable for rent-to-drive entries in the style of Bertelli to do some random WRC events in Rally1, while not making a mess out of more classes as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


These new rules will use a common safety cell to reduce costs and complexity, and allow manufacturers and tuners to develop cars with their own bodywork based on production models including B-class, C-Class, compact SUV or a Concept Car designed to tight technical criteria such as centre of gravity and aerodynamics in order to equalize performance.


The power output will be targeted at 330hp, with the engine performance controlled by a reference torque curve for all cars. Engine and transmission will be cost-capped and technology limited to Rally2 equivalence. Aerodynamic efficiency will be limited along with a top speed restriction to reduce development and cost.


The cost per car will be capped at €400,000


With the exception that it still reads like a small mess with the Rally2-stuff, and I still don't quite understand where Rally2+ fits in to it all. I like it. It looks like they are trying to take what's the best from the WEC manufacturer-boom rules, and what seemed to work very well for the TCR class when that started, even though TCR have fizzled out a bit lately.

I still think that whatever the rules are, the top class cars in WRC, should be the same cars that drivers can use in national championships. That's how you get a nice amount of privateers trying to do one or two local/"local"/interesting WRC events.

I don't think it's perfect, but it's positive steps at least!

[Rallyper]

At the same time, there are some curious bits.


The cost per car will be capped at €400,000 and WRC manufacturers will be required to make their cars available for sale directly from the finish parc fermé of a WRC event.


This almost sounds like Bilcross/Folkrace where every car (with some exceptions) can be bought at the track after the race, and the owner cannot say no. But it can't mean that? What if a team loses all their cars?


The global calendar may include a small number of shorter sprint-style and longer endurance events in addition to the rallies that follow the existing format. Nevertheless, the overall timed kilometres covered during a season will remain largely unchanged with events still organised on a mix of asphalt, gravel and snow.


I fear this will lead to a lot more sprint-events, and with the FIA seemingly looking to expand the calendar, more short events will still give the "overall timed kilometres largely unchanged".


The current Rally1 car will continue as the WRC’s flagship vehicle in both 2025 and 2026 but with modifications to reduce cost and performance. These include the removal of the plug-in hybrid unit, with the performance compensated by a reduction in overall weight, and a reduction in the air restrictor and aerodynamics.


Rally2 cars will continue in their current form for the duration of their homologation as the basis for national and international series. However, Rally2 cars competing on WRC events from 2025 and beyond will have an option to run with a WRC kit consisting of a larger restrictor, a larger exhaust, an optional paddle shift gearbox and a rear wing with the objective of reducing the performance gap between Rally1 and Rally2 cars.


From 2026, revised Rally1 technical regulations for the WRC’s top-level category will be introduced based on the current Rally1 concept. These regulations will run alongside the current Rally1 regulations for the 2026 season.


This sounds like a small mess tbh. While the current Rally1 cars will be cheaper and easier to run. Who will spend loads of money on a concept that will last for a maximum of 2 years, with a new concept with a set price coming after just one year?
Rally2+ thing sounds interesting, but is it meant to actually compete with the new Rally1 concept in 2026? If so, why make two classes and not just make Rally2+ the main thing? If not, who will take the risk on spending money on such a kit for one year? It has also been tried before with the RRC->WRC, and that wasn't exactly much success either.

In a way it feels like they should've just gone with "some modifications to make Rally1 cheaper for 2025, and a new ruleset for 2026". I think that would've made it more viable for rent-to-drive entries in the style of Bertelli to do some random WRC events in Rally1, while not making a mess out of more classes as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


These new rules will use a common safety cell to reduce costs and complexity, and allow manufacturers and tuners to develop cars with their own bodywork based on production models including B-class, C-Class, compact SUV or a Concept Car designed to tight technical criteria such as centre of gravity and aerodynamics in order to equalize performance.


The power output will be targeted at 330hp, with the engine performance controlled by a reference torque curve for all cars. Engine and transmission will be cost-capped and technology limited to Rally2 equivalence. Aerodynamic efficiency will be limited along with a top speed restriction to reduce development and cost.


The cost per car will be capped at €400,000


With the exception that it still reads like a small mess with the Rally2-stuff, and I still don't quite understand where Rally2+ fits in to it all. I like it. It looks like they are trying to take what's the best from the WEC manufacturer-boom rules, and what seemed to work very well for the TCR class when that started, even though TCR have fizzled out a bit lately.

I still think that whatever the rules are, the top class cars in WRC, should be the same cars that drivers can use in national championships. That's how you get a nice amount of privateers trying to do one or two local/"local"/interesting WRC events.

I don't think it's perfect, but it's positive steps at least!

Is it April-fool day?

[Eli]

Is it April-fool day?

Still have 33 days until then ;)

[drive]

Post 2026 Rally1- based on 'frame', its freedom for models... rally2+ based on egsisting rally2 cars, so 'new rally1' concept keeps open doors to enter wrc for new 'tuners' without factory homoglogated rally2... good 😀