2024 WRC News & Rumours

[RS]

If lindholm is true i dont get it, why throw away a chance at a better performance car at Hyundai and go to much more low budget and less promising team.

Maybe MSport can give him a full programme whereas Hyundai could maybe only offer 1 or 2 events in a WRC1 car?

[EstWRC]

Linnamae also with new car, latest Skoda wrc2 instead of i20

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231204/10a9f2e2f041a1a7865b7172a7df1d12.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What a strange outfit Hyundai are... so many changes every year apart from Neuville.

[CeskyOndra]

Hyundai will be strong as hell next year I expect

[seb_sh]

Citroen DG Sport with Rossel and Gryazin now official and Lefebvre reported by Dirtfish testing the Yaris, rumors becoming news.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai will be strong as hell next year I expect

But Tanak has got to get used to the i20 Rally1 again and will he be any happier in it than in 2022 ? Plus if it's true they'll have Mikkelsen instead of Suninen, he will also have to adapt from the Fabia Rally2 into a Rally1 hybrid for the first time.

[Jarek Z]

The new Yaris rally2 looks and most likely is a beast!

Is this the same car that people described as ugly just one year ago? ;)

[Jarek Z]

If lindholm is true i dont get it, why throw away a chance at a better performance car at Hyundai and go to much more low budget and less promising team.

Maybe he doesn't want to end up like Jari Huttunen?

[EstWRC]

Ott Tanak is expected to test Hyundai’s World Rally Championship challenger before the end of the year as part of a busy month of preparations following his move from M-Sport.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/tanak-set-for-busy-refresher-month-to-prepare-for-wrc-2024/10554912/

[HKSjbg]

Is this the same car that people described as ugly just one year ago? ;)

The Yaris, more so than other cars, seems to be quite sensitive to the colour scheme. In matte black it looks crap, in TGR livery it looks completely different and this dark grey somehow looks miles better than the black. Maybe it’s seeing it in tarmac spec that makes the difference.

In standard road-car spec it’s still got quite an upright ‘one-box’ stance compared to the i20 and Fabia for example

[mousti]

Gryazin has been now official driver under the Hyundai, Skoda and Citroën umbrella

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[RS]

Is this the same car that people described as ugly just one year ago? ;)

IMO the Rally2 Yaris looks better than the Rally1 ‘Yaris’, more balanced without the silly rear wing.

[WRCStan]

So Tanak buys Martin out at RedGrey and heads back to Hyundai for WRC, then pivots RedGrey away from Hyundai.

[EstWRC]

Redgrey went away already last year when he left….

[mousti]

Yaris Rally2 will be zero car in Devoluy.

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[Sulland]

https://i.postimg.cc/nr6X662f/mikk.png (https://postimages.org/)

Is this confirmed by anyone oficial?

[AndersX]

IMO the Rally2 Yaris looks better than the Rally1 ‘Yaris’, more balanced without the silly rear wing.

I agree - Rally1 Yaris looks relatively good in tarmac setup, but gravel, with its uplifted back can not be named as nice car. This Rally2 looks way more balanced.

[EstWRC]

Audi vs Lancia movie coming out January 5th

https://youtu.be/Anh9PRtW5uI?si=QGCDt4Flx76wlHHW

[doubled1978]

Audi vs Lancia movie coming out January 5th

https://youtu.be/Anh9PRtW5uI?si=QGCDt4Flx76wlHHW

Something like this can only help the popularity of rallying, we as ‘traditional’ fans just have to looks past the inaccuracies and see it for what it is.
Cool they made it.

[EstWRC]

Msport will reveal their livery at autosport international show which will take place 11-14 January

https://x.com/msportltd/status/1731968243131195640?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[Jarek Z]

Audi vs Lancia movie coming out January 5th

https://youtu.be/Anh9PRtW5uI?si=QGCDt4Flx76wlHHW

Thanks for the info! The trailer doesn't look bad. I wonder if this movie will be played in cinemas or is it too much of a niche topic for the general audience?

Poster:
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/8PGLxIfvs5Pm8zg8TO08NA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTEzODY7aD0yMDQ2O2NmPXdlYn A-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/comingsoon_net_477/09feb258b12211b33ff5a10c9029b551

[becher]

The real story is interesting enough, but I fear they will go down the "Grand Tour" route and make it something like "poor cheating italians" against "german organization and engineering excellence". Which would be laughable considering how Abarth and Audi operated respectively at the time.

[Kenneth]

Thanks for the info! The trailer doesn't look bad. I wonder if this movie will be played in cinemas or is it too much of a niche topic for the general audience?
[/url]

"In Theaters, On Demand, and On Digital January 5"

Looks like it won't get wide cinema release. PVOD at day 1 and announcement only a month before release points out it will be smaller film. Also it's not in the Czech film distribution list (ofc that can be because it was just announced, but distributors usually lists unannounced films too).

[Eli]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-statement-future-rallying

“ At the World Motor Sport Council Strategy session at the Annual General Assemblies Week in Baku today, it was agreed to form a Working Group to evaluate and recommend the future direction of rallying. The Working Group will be led by FIA Deputy President for Sport Robert Reid and World Motor Sport Council member David Richards.

Under consideration will be the technical, sporting and promotional aspects of the FIA World Rally Championship. The group will also address the pathway for grass roots development of rallying.

An initial working paper will be presented for consideration by the WMSC and WRC Commission within two weeks.”

[seb_sh]

David Richards.


oh no, not again

[Sulland]

Msport will reveal their livery at autosport international show which will take place 11-14 January

https://x.com/msportltd/status/1731968243131195640?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Hoping for a swap from Redbull to Monster.... !

[TypeR]

If Mikkelsen to Hyundai, Pajari to Toyota, russhian to Citroen.. then maybe Skoda managed to keep Solberg as they need someone fast in their car..
No big roumors about Solberg so far and hasn't tested Toyota either..?

[PLuto]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-statement-future-rallying

“ At the World Motor Sport Council Strategy session at the Annual General Assemblies Week in Baku today, it was agreed to form a Working Group to evaluate and recommend the future direction of rallying. The Working Group will be led by FIA Deputy President for Sport Robert Reid and World Motor Sport Council member David Richards.

Under consideration will be the technical, sporting and promotional aspects of the FIA World Rally Championship. The group will also address the pathway for grass roots development of rallying.

An initial working paper will be presented for consideration by the WMSC and WRC Commission within two weeks.”

And what they were doing until now?

[Kenneth]

I can imagine that they will find some solutions for issues that never existed, will ignore real issues, wait three year, then FIA will start to wonder why nothing happened and finally start a new working group.

[Walach]

And what they were doing until now?

Thinking about forming working group

[macebig]

David Richards couldn't promote WRC efficiently when it was arguably at its highest point in terms of driver talent/fame and manufacturer interest. What can he do now? Questionable at best.

[HKSjbg]

I heard Richards has this novel idea of making all rallies a homogenised cloverleaf format. I bet it will make rallying go from strength to strength

[seb_sh]

I heard Richards has this novel idea of making all rallies a homogenised cloverleaf format. I bet it will make rallying go from strength to strength

yes, from memory so please correct me if i'm wrong but it went something like this: he bought the TV rights in the early 2000s from ISC and introduced the cloverleaf and increased the calendar 16 rallies for a bigger/better tv package. Teams said it's expensive to do 16 rounds so they reduced to 2 cars per team. Then a few years later he sold the TV rights to North One (I assume at a nice profit for himself). I doubt he cared or understood the medium to long term prospects for the sport at the time so my expectations are low. The things that could give hope are that maybe now he's not motivated by money and there's also Robert Reid there.

[mousti]

Mikkelsen said goodbye on his sociale to Skoda Motorsport. So the deal with Hyundai seems official at last..

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[turdzi]

2495

[Eli]

So, the italian rumours were right once again, if I had to guess they’ll probably make it official tomorrow, as well as Toyota. Again, just guessing.

[turdzi]

It looks like they will make announcement tomorrow. But still that lineup for the third car doesn't make sense for me.

[HKSjbg]

yes, from memory so please correct me if i'm wrong but it went something like this: he bought the TV rights in the early 2000s from ISC and introduced the cloverleaf and increased the calendar 16 rallies for a bigger/better tv package. Teams said it's expensive to do 16 rounds so they reduced to 2 cars per team. Then a few years later he sold the TV rights to North One (I assume at a nice profit for himself). I doubt he cared or understood the medium to long term prospects for the sport at the time so my expectations are low. The things that could give hope are that maybe now he's not motivated by money and there's also Robert Reid there.

Hopefully he has learned from his mistake the first time around and also, like you said, that he’s not motivated by a deal to struck this time

[Mackie]

What if Hyundai thinks they a backup in Suninen anyway, since he is so much younger than Mikkelsen? And this way they have removed a threat from WRC2? Other than the value of a relatively safe pair of hands, I mean.

[turdzi]

Speaking of Hyundai. I think that Kalle dropped a bombshell with his part time season next year and I bet that if Tanak would have known that he would stayed at Msport one more year. It will be a very interesting dynamic in that team and Cyril will have hands full of work.

[rp]

Good for Mikkelsen and at least he will deserve this last chance winning two WRC2 titles during the last three seasons.

Last year he was dropped by Lappi from Hyundai contract and now it seems that it´s thanks to Lappi´s part time season he is back with Hyundai.

[turdzi]

Regarding young Solberg.
Everybody seems to miss one important detail placinghim in MsportRally1 car.
He is sponsored by Monster Energy and as long RedBull is connected with Msport,* I believe that's still Formauix sponsor , Solberg and Msport won't going to happen. The only scenario that might solve that is that Msport part ways with Redbull, Solberg parts ways with Monster or Solberg drive for the own team with Msport backing or support.

[rallyfiend]

Regarding young Solberg.
Everybody seems to miss one important detail placinghim in MsportRally1 car.
He is sponsored by Monster Energy and as long RedBull is connected with Msport,* I believe that's still Formauix sponsor , Solberg and Msport won't going to happen. The only scenario that might solve that is that Msport part ways with Redbull, Solberg parts ways with Monster or Solberg drive for the own team with Msport backing or support.

This has been pointed out a number of times.
The Ford alliance with Red Bull (F1) will be difficult to break one would expect.
But many athletes have switched from one to the other.

[AndyRAC]

Having Monster & Red Bull doesn't seem to cause issues in Downhill MTB...Specialized have Bruni (RB) and Williams (Monster).......

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pajari just testing the Yaris Rally2 and has no permanent role with Toyota...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-dismisses-pajari-speculation/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Skoda is returning to be a factory team next year, could Toksport switch to running the new Yaris Rally2 ?

[TypeR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAqoit5WcAEE7D_?format=jpg&name=small

[ictus]

Having Monster & Red Bull doesn't seem to cause issues in Downhill MTB...Specialized have Bruni (RB) and Williams (Monster).......
Tottaly different case... Spesh isn't sponsored by any of theese brands... they are just athleat's sponsors

[turdzi]

I think Mikkelsen deserves last chance

[becher]

Good news. I'm still curious on what their plan is, Mikkelsen and Lappi sharing seems really strange.

[CeskyOndra]

I think that in some events they will run 4 cars. Shame for Teemu. But there is no sense to have Teemu in the team, he is great in fast stuff, same as Lappi and Mikkelesen.

[turdzi]

Sordo also confirmed. Actually thay have now a killer lineup. Thay have to course Kalle and Ogier on part time programs make it very difficult for Hyundai in manufacturers championship.

[seb_sh]

So in the press release they said Sordo for rough gravel, Lappi for snow and fast gravel and Mikkelsen for tarmac! Interesting...

[becher]

So in the press release they said Sordo for rough gravel, Lappi for snow and fast gravel and Mikkelsen for tarmac! Interesting...

Hm if he gels with the i20 he could be decent in tarmac, if not then good night. But it's not like Sordo was all that great on tarmac in the last couple of years.

[Mackie]

That would mean Safari, Portugal, Sardegna and Greece for Sordo? Chile? And Monte, Croatia, CER and Japan for Mikkelsen? Sweden, Poland, Latvia, Finland for Lappi? Chile again?

[turdzi]

Tottaly different case... Spesh isn't sponsored by any of theese brands... they are just athleat's sponsors

Exactyl in motorsport thats a massive conflict.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont really get switch by Hyundai,
but congratulations to Andreas. Hopefully this makes up for being ignored by Hyundai at the last minute last year.

Shame for Teemu after doing a decent job in the Rally1.

[Eli]

I think the main takeaway here is we're missing another team that would make most of these part-time drives full time+ would add some new faces to the block such as Lindholm, Pajari, etc. But that's nothing new and will probably stay that way until at least 2027... :(

[EstWRC]

That would mean Safari, Portugal, Sardegna and Greece for Sordo? Chile? And Monte, Croatia, CER and Japan for Mikkelsen? Sweden, Poland, Latvia, Finland for Lappi? Chile again?

Yeah seems something like that based on their press release

So Monte lineup should be Tänak, Neuville and Mikkelsen

[Eli]

https://www.fia.com/news/wmsc-gathers-baku-final-meeting-landmark-year

"FIA World Rally Championship

Following the announcement yesterday of the creation of a working group to evaluate and recommend the future direction of rallying, Robert Reid stated that the work has now started with meetings already taking place with WMSC members and ASN representatives this week in Baku.

The WMSC has approved the recommendation of the WRC Commission to appoint Hankook as the official tyre partner and supplier to the FIA World Rally Championship for a three-year deal starting in 2025. This decision follows a detailed tendering process launched by the FIA in July based on criteria such as the supplier’s capabilities, sustainability, technical quality, cost per tyre and marketing. Hankook will replace Pirelli whose WRC single supplier deal will conclude at the end of the 2024 campaign.

The principles of a new format for the attribution of championship points for Manufacturers, Drivers and Co-Drivers have been approved with the aim to enhance excitement and competitiveness, especially on Sunday. The details and balance of the points per day will be confirmed by the WMSC Task Force at a later stage.

With the objective to significantly reduce costs, a maximum of three new hybrid units per season will be allowed in 2025 and 2026 for Rally1 cars entered to score points in the Manufacturers’ Championship, instead of nine.

In regard to promotion, P1 crews will complete a minimum of two passages of the shakedown, while the third pass will be available for a media or VIP passenger ride determined by WRC Promoter to offer greater exposure opportunities to the championship.

Based on feedback from competitors, P2 crews will now be allowed to use route note cars and a different start order on Friday will be implemented to avoid discrepancies with P1 drivers."

[TypeR]

Reduce these 3 units to 0 and there will be even bigger cost saving..

[Sulland]

So in the press release they said Sordo for rough gravel, Lappi for snow and fast gravel and Mikkelsen for tarmac! Interesting...

Strange choice, but I guess they have their reasons.

[AndersX]

What about Sunninen? Not a single word anywhere.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GArVETJWMAANr3Z?format=jpg&name=large

[WRCStan]

Exactyl in motorsport thats a massive conflict.

I disagree but can we agree that if Solberg doesn't drive M-Sport it's not only because of this sponsor conflict reason. This shouldn't be a deal breaker.

[WRCStan]

Credit to @Mirek for introducing Power Sunday!

[turdzi]

I disagree but can we agree that if Solberg doesn't drive M-Sport it's not only because of this sponsor conflict reason. This shouldn't be a deal breaker.

I don't think that he will drive for Msport as well and that's a shame course he discoverers to sitt in Rally1 car. I think that Msport lineup will look like this: Formauix, Greensmith and Munster so ony reasonable option for Solberg is a seat in factory Skoda

[WRCStan]

Ah but would Greensmith and Munster's cars have Red Bull logos, or does that not matter because they don't have energy drink sponsors? It still leaves only one car for a 'team sponsor'.

[HKSjbg]

What about Sunninen? Not a single word anywhere.

Back to Rally2?

[htr]

Green lights in night? more info?
2496 2497

[mousti]

If Skoda is returning to be a factory team next year, could Toksport switch to running the new Yaris Rally2 ?Don't think we'll see Toksport back on the same level like we've seen them the last few years..

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[turdzi]

Ah but would Greensmith and Munster's cars have Red Bull logos, or does that not matter because they don't have energy drink sponsors? It still leaves only one car for a 'team sponsor'.

Difficult to say it might happen that it will be even more drivers mixing and changing. As a matter of fact a appsence of a star driver opens up opportunities for other young drivers and a chance for Msport to earn some cash. Better opportunity might not happen.

[mousti]

Linnamae had a test with the Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 from Sarrazin Motorsport.

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[Steve Boyd]

Green lights in night? more info?
2496 2497That may not be a true colour. White flourescent lights show green on colour film due to the limited spectrum emitted by the lamp. Your eyes see white because their sensitivity to different frequencies isn't the same as the film sensitivity. You could have the same issue with a digital image if the response spectrum of the ccd is different from the emission spectrum of the led lamp. It isn't unusual to need to change the colour balance in an electronic camera to suit different lighting conditions. Your brain does this automatically with what your eyes receive.

[Tauri_J]

Green lights in night? more info?
2496 2497

Better to see road surface. Very important in Monte

[EstWRC]

“I am super-motivated for next year. But what also really motivates me more with Hyundai is the future. You see the guys in the team in the right places now with Cyril [Abiteboul, team principal] and F-X [Demaison, technical director]. Especially F-X. I know him from before and there’s nobody better to build a rally car. I am convinced this will turn into success with the people in the correct positions – for the future, for my future, this is the correct place to be.”

Sensing some awkwardness in posing the question, Mikkelsen takes the lead.

He adds: “When you look back on my Hyundai period last time, it was a disaster on Tarmac. Now, everything is new. As long as the car turns, I’m confident I will be quick.

lol the last sentence made me laugh. As long as the car turns

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-mikkelsen-hopes-to-achieve-with-hyundai/

[skarderud]

“I am super-motivated for next year. But what also really motivates me more with Hyundai is the future. You see the guys in the team in the right places now with Cyril [Abiteboul, team principal] and F-X [Demaison, technical director]. Especially F-X. I know him from before and there’s nobody better to build a rally car. I am convinced this will turn into success with the people in the correct positions – for the future, for my future, this is the correct place to be.”

Sensing some awkwardness in posing the question, Mikkelsen takes the lead.

He adds: “When you look back on my Hyundai period last time, it was a disaster on Tarmac. Now, everything is new. As long as the car turns, I’m confident I will be quick.

lol the last sentence made me laugh. As long as the car turns

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-mikkelsen-hopes-to-achieve-with-hyundai/Lol?

The main issue for Tänak, Loeb, Mikkelsen, and even Neuville , was that the car understeered a lot, they had to use the handbrake to make the car turn in. Even in full speed corners.

So, if the car turn in in its natural behavior, and not need to be forced to do it, everyone is happy.


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[Danny0405]

Mikkelsen on tarmac… well, strange choice.
It gives a bit the feeling that Hyundai choose the strategy before (1 guy for fast gravel with Lappi, 1 guy for rough gravel, 1 guy for tarmac) and that they have chosen the names (at least for Sordo and Mikkelsen) after that.

For sure, there is no more pure smooth tarmac such as Catalunya and you can take good points by being clever… but Lappi did so in the last 18 months (Ypres/Croatia/Japan).

So let’s see (last time Hyundai did a strange choice in 3rd, they won back-to-back manufacturer title).

And Sordo has added a new driver «*removed*» by Hyundai while he keeps the job (whereas all people thought he was finished): Hanninen, Paddon, Mikkelsen (1st time), Loeb, Solberg and now Suninen.

[Danny0405]

Other point to be noticed (even if it’s more about WRC-2): Skoda (through Toksport) is losing a lot of people, at least for the top guys of WRc-2
- Gryazin officially to Citroen
- Pajari rumors to Toyota (will be 0 car in Devoluy)
- Lindholm left during summer
- Mikkelsen goes to RC1 with Hyundai
- Solberg’s plans uncertain (trying to rent the 4th RC1 Toyota now that it’ll be more available?)
- from Toksport team, at the moment, sounds only Greensmith are staying with Skoda. Well, and maybe Bulacia but very disappointing in the last two years

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA0pSQlWYAA-VKv?format=jpg&name=medium

[Managarium]

"The 2024 season is fast-approaching and I can’t wait to share my plans with you guys very soon! ����"

Oliver Solberg

[Danny0405]

Would really be a good thing to see him in a 4th Toyota Monster-backed car to support a bit the competition.
He was not totally disaster last year (compared with Fourmaux) and in this situation, having another Rally1 car with a driver with some potential is better than nothing.
I think it could be coherent in 2024 as the 4th car would be much more available (probably at least 10 rallies) compared with 2023.

M-Sport is more complicated due to sponsorship issue (and I admit I like the idea to see Lindholm there)

[TypeR]

Huge program would be wrc2 with new Yaris and 2-3 events with 4th rally1 Yaris.
However, Skoda needs someone to keep their car on top level.. (sry, can't see Gus, or Bulacia doing that..)
If Skoda really takes wrc2 program as Manu then Toksport would change their cars..?
Very exciting silly season so far eith one new wrc2 car coming out.

[Duvel]

True, the new (unproven) Yaris rally 2 shakes things up! Even before we know its gonna be as fast as most think..

[Duvel]

Would really be a good thing to see him in a 4th Toyota Monster-backed car to support a bit the competition.
He was not totally disaster last year (compared with Fourmaux) and in this situation, having another Rally1 car with a driver with some potential is better than nothing.
I think it could be coherent in 2024 as the 4th car would be much more available (probably at least 10 rallies) compared with 2023.

M-Sport is more complicated due to sponsorship issue (and I admit I like the idea to see Lindholm there)

Oliver in Rally1 car would be good for wrc1 championship! If its a Ford or the 4th Toyota... Doesn't matter, Olliver is one of the few guys ho could be competitive in the short term.

[Duvel]

Rally2 wil be nice to follow! Good drivers and 4 or 5 cars that are somewhat equal..

[turdzi]

I hope it is Rally1. He deserves it and belongs in one.

[Sulland]

Oliver has the one thing teambosses look for: natural speed.

It is easier to teach drivers to get to the finish, by holding back, than teaching them to improve their speed limit.

I think we will see Oliver in a Rally1 car in 2024. If it will be fulltime or part time remain to be seen!

[turdzi]

Totally agree

[WRCStan]

Oliver has the one thing teambosses look for: natural speed.

Another is a will to get involved with publicity and promotion.

[satnav]

Oliver has the one thing teambosses look for: natural speed.

It is easier to teach drivers to get to the finish, by holding back, than teaching them to improve their speed limit.

I think we will see Oliver in a Rally1 car in 2024. If it will be fulltime or part time remain to be seen!

Indeed, it's always been said it's easier to make a fast driver slower than make a slow one fast.......

[turdzi]

So do we get a announcement from Solberg tomorrow ? :)

[skarderud]

Seems M-sport just runs 1 car for Fourmaux, the second one is for paydrivers, munster do Monte Carlo, lindholm looks for money for some runs.

Loubet to Toyota Rally2-driving some said, i don't know how someone in Toyota picks him over others?

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[turdzi]

Well a average former WRC driver or should I say Rally1 driver becomes one of the top drivers when thay step down to lower categories. Somehow thay way ahead of of others even though they are not showing that potential in Rally1 car.
Look at Greensmith for instance. Slowest guy in Rally1 and suddenly top 3 in Rally2.
Toyota needs to shine in MC with just 5 cars to accelerate sells so they need drivers with good credentials and so a former Rally1 drivers fit nicely to tha role.

[Sulland]

Taken from facebook, still not confirmed.

"Good news .
Solberg to drive new Toyota Gazzo Racing built Rally2 Yaris in satellite customer teams WRC2 assault in 2024.

Major backing from long term partnership with Monster Energy and factory support from the Finland based Toyota Gazzo Racing World Rally Team outfit will enable Oliver Solberg to have a full season in the brand new GR Yaris Rally2 in 2024. Frenchman Stéphane Lefebvre who makes the switch from years of driving a Citroen will joing as the pair will tackle the opening round of the FIA World Rally Championship at the Rallye Monte-Carlo in January.https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t58/2/16/1f919.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t98/2/16/1f1f8_1f1ef.png "

Will Solbergs run the satellite team maybe?

[Danny0405]

Seems M-sport just runs 1 car for Fourmaux, the second one is for paydrivers, munster do Monte Carlo, lindholm looks for money for some runs.

Loubet to Toyota Rally2-driving some said, i don't know how someone in Toyota picks him over others?

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It’s not a question of Toyota choosing a driver; Toyota was always clear is a customer program in Rally2… so it’s just a question of who pays… and still for Toyota, it remains interesting to have good drivers for its beginning and even if I’m skeptical about his potential for a long time, Loubet is a former WRC-3 champion (and don’t forget Greensmith has finished 2nd in the standing this year).

However, I’m surprised of how much people Skoda has lost in such a short period … Lindholm (in the summer) and now Pajari, Solberg, Gryazin, Mikkelsen (special case for the last name)… it’s quite a lot and they keep only Greensmith (if he stays) as a top contender except if they have a rabbit in the hat

[rp]

However, I’m surprised of how much people Skoda has lost in such a short period … Lindholm (in the summer) and now Pajari, Solberg, Gryazin, Mikkelsen (special case for the last name)… it’s quite a lot and they keep only Greensmith (if he stays) as a top contender except if they have a rabbit in the hat

Skoda should be worried! If their works team is back and they have drivers like Greensmith, Cais and Joona it will be impossible to beat Toyota drivers.

[RS]

It’s not a question of Toyota choosing a driver; Toyota was always clear is a customer program in Rally2… so it’s just a question of who pays… and still for Toyota, it remains interesting to have good drivers for its beginning and even if I’m skeptical about his potential for a long time, Loubet is a former WRC-3 champion (and don’t forget Greensmith has finished 2nd in the standing this year).

However, I’m surprised of how much people Skoda has lost in such a short period … Lindholm (in the summer) and now Pajari, Solberg, Gryazin, Mikkelsen (special case for the last name)… it’s quite a lot and they keep only Greensmith (if he stays) as a top contender except if they have a rabbit in the hat

I would say Lindholm is a special case too.. i guess he jumped to Hyundai for a chance at Rally1.

Maybe time for Skoda to give Meeke a go.. even though he's old he is at least fast and experienced, especially with that car.

I would also pick Martins Sesks.. very fast on fast gravel and a quick learner elsewhere (but i doubt that will happen)

Cais has potential with a regular co-driver and a good test programme. He's also very marketable and they need a new Czech now Kopecky is in his twilight years.

[Mirek]

Skoda should be worried! If their works team is back and they have drivers like Greensmith, Cais and Joona it will be impossible to beat Toyota drivers.

After a decade of Škoda dominance a change would be welcome by most of the rally world I guess. Anyway let them fight and may the better win :)

[Sulland]

After a decade of Škoda dominance a change would be welcome by most of the rally world I guess. Anyway let them fight and may the better win :)

No need to stress yet. We still dont know the speed or endurance of the newcomer!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder if the deals to drive the new Yaris Rally2 are quite favorable which is attracting drivers from Skoda. The financial giant of Toyota could well subsidise them to a degree.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Taken from facebook, still not confirmed.

"Good news .
Solberg to drive new Toyota Gazzo Racing built Rally2 Yaris in satellite customer teams WRC2 assault in 2024.

Major backing from long term partnership with Monster Energy and factory support from the Finland based Toyota Gazzo Racing World Rally Team outfit will enable Oliver Solberg to have a full season in the brand new GR Yaris Rally2 in 2024. Frenchman Stéphane Lefebvre who makes the switch from years of driving a Citroen will joing as the pair will tackle the opening round of the FIA World Rally Championship at the Rallye Monte-Carlo in January.https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t58/2/16/1f919.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t98/2/16/1f1f8_1f1ef.png "

Will Solbergs run the satellite team maybe?



You should quote the source so we can judge the credibility...

[rp]

Maybe some Yaris Rally1 events also for Solberg, Loubet and Pajari, so no wonder that they select Toyota.

[seb_sh]

Maybe some Yaris Rally1 events also for Solberg, Loubet and Pajari, so no wonder that they select Toyota.

As I wrote previously if I had budget I would choose to drive the Toyota Rally1 over the Ford. It's possible you are on to something, these drivers going into the Toyota group could also rent the Rally1. I can imagine a WRC2 season and 2 or 3 rallies in the Rally1.

[rp]

As I wrote previously if I had budget I would choose to drive the Toyota Rally1 over the Ford. It's possible you are on to something, these drivers going into the Toyota group could also rent the Rally1. I can imagine a WRC2 season and 2 or 3 rallies in the Rally1.

Yes! It´s definetely better to get 1 or 2 very good result (at least top 5) with the best car than drive many top 8 results with the Puma. At least Solberg and Loubet have a budget to do that. Maybe also Pajari.

[ictus]

Maybe some Yaris Rally1 events also for Solberg, Loubet and Pajari, so no wonder that they select Toyota.

You all keep forgeting that Yaris rally2 is strictly a customer program, Toyota will not be running any rally2 program so there is practicly no chance of it helping to get a drive in rally1

[er88]

As well as Skoda suddenly looking a bit light, Hyundai and Msport also need drivers who can show their rally2 to be competitive.
Will Suninen stay at Hyundai with only rally2 drives? If Munster is stepping up to rally1, surely msport need another driver for rally 2?

[TypeR]

You should quote the source so we can judge the credibility...
Two pages posted same thing yesterday..
,,Xlerate'' and ,,The Ministry of Rally''.

[er88]

Maybe some Yaris Rally1 events also for Solberg, Loubet and Pajari, so no wonder that they select Toyota.

You'd imagine so. It was only Bertelli who rented the yaris rally1 last season. Solberg and Loubet will definitely be trying to get some rally1 drives included next season

[rp]

You all keep forgeting that Yaris rally2 is strictly a customer program, Toyota will not be running any rally2 program so there is practicly no chance of it helping to get a drive in rally1

Of course they have to pay, but it will help when driving already Toyota.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TGR plans on supplying up to 50 Yaris Rally2 cars in 2024 so it wont get them a chance to be part of the 'Toyota Family'...

[RS]

You all keep forgeting that Yaris rally2 is strictly a customer program, Toyota will not be running any rally2 program so there is practicly no chance of it helping to get a drive in rally1

Hmmm, Skoda say that but I think the reality is different. There is probably some subsidy for the best drivers (even full subsidy for guys like Mikkelsen)

[ictus]

once again:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-dismisses-pajari-speculation/

[Mirek]

You all keep forgeting that Yaris rally2 is strictly a customer program, Toyota will not be running any rally2 program so there is practicly no chance of it helping to get a drive in rally1

Actually no, the chance is a lot higher than with Škoda ;)

[seb_sh]

You all keep forgeting that Yaris rally2 is strictly a customer program, Toyota will not be running any rally2 program so there is practicly no chance of it helping to get a drive in rally1

Not forgetting, I specifically wrote budget, implying a customer status. Last year a Yaris rally1 was available for rent. Also don't you think that being one of the first 5 "customers" in the world involves some sort of selection or relationship, even if they say it's not the case? It's not like they are taking names from a hat...

And yes they will have 50... Eventually. For now there are 5 cars the rest will come after some months.

[er88]

Is it just rumours that Skoda will run their own cars/ team next season in wrc2? Or was there some sort of confirmation

[Walach]

There were only rumours and nothing more; and with each passing day I would say that official team is less and less likely, although I would be happy to be proven wrong.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In the end it's all about money. No-one else is going to get a drive in (a spare) Yaris Rally1 this year without paying for it, no matter what Rally2 car they drive.

[WRCStan]

Hmmm, Skoda say that but I think the reality is different. There is probably some subsidy for the best drivers (even full subsidy for guys like Mikkelsen)

It's also 10 times the WRC2 championship fee (€100,000 v €10,000) and double per car per rally entry fee for Skoda to be in the team name.

Toyota would get free entry to the championship if they wanted.

If that's got something to do with it.

[mousti]

There were only rumours and nothing more; and with each passing day I would say that official team is less and less likely, although I would be happy to be proven wrong.Normally they'll come back as a factory team because relationship with Toksport went quite sideways this year..

The big question will be which drivers will be chosen.. One top driver I guess and Cais.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[doubled1978]

Normally they'll come back as a factory team because relationship with Toksport went quite sideways this year..

The big question will be which drivers will be chosen.. One top driver I guess and Cais.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

What was the problem with Toksport?

[seb_sh]

Jan Solans will also drive a Yaris in WRC2. https://planetemarcus.com/jan-solans-en-2024-sur-le-wrc-2-avec-la-yaris-rally2/

Looks like the 5 initial Yaris rally2 are filled.

[TypeR]

Solans, Cais, Lefebvre can't be the guys that will be in the ,,top5 cars'' in Monte..

[jcevc]

Lefebvre can be in top5 for sure if he will not 'lost wheel' :)

[becher]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-working-group-must-deliver-the-end-of-rally1/?fbclid=IwAR11zPlcmHHw-YsONQ7hYx5pqkWSQQyprFY638uWex3yKQq3j-obAk-Q-yo

Has this been posted yet?

Quite hilarious in parts considering this self contradicting thing was written by the most recognized journalist in the field.

[wyler]

Solans, Cais, Lefebvre can't be the guys that will be in the ,,top5 cars'' in Monte..

solans is already confirmed in a yaris rally2.
https://planetemarcus.com/jan-solans-en-2024-sur-le-wrc-2-avec-la-yaris-rally2/

also confirmed full program of (at least) 7 races

[WRCStan]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-working-group-must-deliver-the-end-of-rally1/?fbclid=IwAR11zPlcmHHw-YsONQ7hYx5pqkWSQQyprFY638uWex3yKQq3j-obAk-Q-yo

Has this been posted yet?

Quite hilarious in parts considering this self contradicting thing was written by the most recognized journalist in the field.

What do you find contradictory? I struggle to stomach it. He either believes what he types is possible in which case he's embarrassed himself, or he's doing it to provoke popular reaction, again. Likely the latter.

[PLuto]

Normally they'll come back as a factory team because relationship with Toksport went quite sideways this year..

The big question will be which drivers will be chosen.. One top driver I guess and Cais.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

I think that cooperation between Skoda and Toksport will continue. But there is a question regarding drivers when they have lost Mikkelsen.

[BleAivano]

WRC and Rally Sweden will stay in Umeå for another 3 years.

https://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=24480

[seb_sh]

What do you find contradictory? I struggle to stomach it. He either believes what he types is possible in which case he's embarrassed himself, or he's doing it to provoke popular reaction, again. Likely the latter.

I also tend to think it's the latter. They often write articles designed to generate clicks and discussions. The driver ratings are another example of that.

[seb_sh]

Now rumors about Bouffier in Toyota rally2 at Monte https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/1734875669035631085?t=tQwuicCWZqzknQOa9v0Ipg&s=19

[becher]

What do you find contradictory? I struggle to stomach it. He either believes what he types is possible in which case he's embarrassed himself, or he's doing it to provoke popular reaction, again. Likely the latter.

In one paragraph rallies shall finish on sunday lunch time, in the next one they shouldn't. "Don't make the aero inefficient,...put holes in it..."

Granted, those might be chatter/typos, but quality journalism it is not.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rep.of Ireland bids for WRC in 2025...

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2023/12/13/e100-million-economy-boost-if-limerick-wins-bid-to-stage-wrc/?utm_source=SocialAutoPoster&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR19U5nu1sN8HTVVetpb9QWLjOjJz9wO-xhAg55a0_jRF1TcjIAPOXI3izI

[JRodrigues]

So, 2024 sporting regulations are out and big news!

points for Friday and Saturday only;
points for Sunday only;
points for Power Stage

18/15/13/10/8/6/4/3/2/1 on Friday/Saturday;
7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on Sunday
5/4/3/2/1 for Power Stage

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2024_wrc_sr_15_dec_2023_v2.pdf

[PLuto]

So, 2024 sporting regulations are out and big news!

points for Friday and Saturday only;
points for Sunday only;
points for Power Stage

18/15/13/10/8/6/4/3/2/1 on Friday/Saturday;
7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on Sunday
5/4/3/2/1 for Power Stage

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2024_wrc_sr_15_dec_2023_v2.pdf

So in the final, nobody will understand the points. And who will be winner of the rally? That is the most imporant info for most of the people...

[Eli]

So, 2024 sporting regulations are out and big news!

points for Friday and Saturday only;
points for Sunday only;
points for Power Stage

18/15/13/10/8/6/4/3/2/1 on Friday/Saturday;
7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on Sunday
5/4/3/2/1 for Power Stage

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2024_wrc_sr_15_dec_2023_v2.pdf

So no (real) changes to the format, rallies are still the same length (saw they haven’t changed the rule from 2019) and only making the scoring system complicated, I hope the FIA & promoter are pleased with themselves, I do hope at least Sundays will be a bit more interesting.

[Eli]

So in the final, nobody will understand the points. And who will be winner of the rally? That is the most imporant info for most of the people...

I think Mirek’s quote describes this perfectly: stupid is as stupid does…

[jcevc]

So, 2024 sporting regulations are out and big news!

points for Friday and Saturday only;
points for Sunday only;
points for Power Stage

18/15/13/10/8/6/4/3/2/1 on Friday/Saturday;
7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on Sunday
5/4/3/2/1 for Power Stage

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2024_wrc_sr_15_dec_2023_v2.pdf

If I understand correct, in theory now the biggest points outcome from one rally for the crew is 55 points?

[Eli]

If I understand correct, in theory now the biggest points outcome from one rally for the crew is 55 points?

No it’s 30, they’ve just split the 25 points into two and the power stage points you get is still the same. Unless by crew you mean the team in which case yes.

[EstWRC]

Isn’t it 48?

18 Friday + 18 Saturday +12 Sunday

That’s how I understand it

[Eli]

Isn’t it 48?

18 Friday + 18 Saturday +12 Sunday

That’s how I understand it

I think it’s 18 for Friday & Saturday, 7 points for Sunday and the extra 5 points for winning the power stage on Sunday.

[CeskyOndra]

After reading full statement from FIA, I think that maximum is 30 points, cuz there is writen "Overall Classification after Saturday"

[CeskyOndra]

That is good, isn't it? This point system will lead to more close championship I think.

[EstWRC]

Okay. For me it was confusing if 18 points for Friday and Saturday separately or together

[seb_sh]

David Richards strikes again. At this point he is the Darth Vader of Rally will we ever have peace in the Galaxy?

[becher]

This is ridiculous, change for the sake of change is usless.

[focus206]

So there are no points assigned for the actual final overall classification? Silly...

[Paul Hudson]

And what about Rally2, they can not compete for any power stage points ?

[RS]

So is the winner of the rally the one who wins Friday/Saturday, with Sunday being a standalone event? Or the one with the most points from the weekend, or what?

This is important not only for the fans but for the marketing guys too I would have thought.

[TypeR]

Great result from FIA rally ,,working group''.. couldn't be more confusing..
Can it be like that rally winner is the one with least overall time, but not most points?

[Paul Hudson]

All this for less than 10 cars !, Its a Joke, FIA Get a grip.

[ictus]

So let's say you're 5th after saturday but it's tight. You menage to climb to first on sunday, so you win the rally but you're 6th on the power stage. And there is a guy who was first after saturday, won the powerstage and comes second in the rally and gets way more points than the winer. Cool
Without additional points for wining the RALLY it's a load of bullshit

[ictus]

OK... read the FIA regulations.
So basically every rally becomes two rallys. You get points for your position after saturday, and sunday has it's own classification (only the stage times from sunday add up). Power stage will be run with no changes, and as I see it no additional points for the RALLY winer.

[RS]

Another thing.. i think you only get your Friday-Saturday points if you finish Sunday.

[TypeR]

Another thing.. i think you only get your Friday-Saturday points if you finish Sunday.
aand we are back on ,,take it easier'' Sunday :D

[Eli]

David Richards strikes again. At this point he is the Darth Vader of Rally will we ever have peace in the Galaxy?

No, it will die before the end of the decade, the championship anyhow;
If anything I’d change the point scoring system back to what it was in 2003-2009, 10-8-6-5-4-etc.

[Walach]

And that would be good for what exactly?

[EstWRC]

Another thing.. i think you only get your Friday-Saturday points if you finish Sunday.

Yep

Wrcwings has written out the main things here

https://x.com/llluis555/status/1735818902578352440?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[Eli]

And that would be good for what exactly?

Well we have such a small group of cars finishing might as well reward them for the top 8.

[atsiotras79]

So, “boring” Sunday becomes “boring” Saturday?

[focus206]

Yep

Wrcwings has written out the main things here

https://x.com/llluis555/status/1735818902578352440?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

LOL what. That's dumber than I thought then, what's the point of splitting the rally in two then? So if a driver wins the Friday+Saturday rally, he gets some suspended points that he might actually get only if he finishes Sunday?
And who's the winner of the rally? The one that tops the overall classification after Sunday (who might end up with less gained points than others) or the one who won the Friday+Saturday rally (who might get 0 points from the weekend if he retires on Sunday!)?
If David Richards has anything to do with this, he needs to be locked away once and for all.

[WRCStan]

This was announced at the WMSC at the same time as the creation of the Working Group. This isn't Dave Richards' doing, it's more likely to be from one or more of the drivers who want to sparkle up the championship.

[WRCStan]

All this for less than 10 cars !, Its a Joke, FIA Get a grip.

Well we have such a small group of cars finishing might as well reward them for the top 8.

The other classes are still included except manufacturers, no change there.

[WRCStan]

aand we are back on ,,take it easier'' Sunday :D

If you 'win' Friday/Saturday, then take it easy on Sunday, you're opponents may beat you on Sunday and take more points from the rally than you. And you might not win the rally.

Pretty clever really.

[Tauri_J]

LOL what. That's dumber than I thought then, what's the point of splitting the rally in two then? So if a driver wins the Friday+Saturday rally, he gets some suspended points that he might actually get only if he finishes Sunday?
And who's the winner of the rally? The one that tops the overall classification after Sunday (who might end up with less gained points than others) or the one who won the Friday+Saturday rally (who might get 0 points from the weekend if he retires on Sunday!)?
If David Richards has anything to do with this, he needs to be locked away once and for all.

Rally winner is always who completes the rally with shortest amount of time, dont be silly about it. Nobody is splitting rallies into two. You retire you get nada.

At first I thought it was a bad system but now after putting in some thoughts about it, it is acceptable for me. Drivers now have to put in more work to earn those maximum points. Only doubt I have about this sytem is that those point differentials are too small.

[EstWRC]

I won’t judge it before we have some rounds and see how it turns out in reality

[Tauri_J]

I won’t judge it before we have some rounds and see how it turns out in reality

yeah obviously, it may look fine on paper but reality is different, and vice versa

[doubled1978]

I won’t judge it before we have some rounds and see how it turns out in reality

I’m with you, let’s see how it works in practice before saying it’s bullshit or whatever. I think there could be some positive upsides to it, at least they have tried to do something positive about the boring Sundays, and on the face of it without discrediting the whole rally. Guys who have had a problem on Friday or Saturday and dropped back will surely see it as an opportunity to not lose as many points.

[TypeR]

What about superrally? Retire on Saturday, restart on Sunday and take 7+5 points?

[Tauri_J]

What about superrally? Retire on Saturday, restart on Sunday and take 7+5 points?

Didnt see any mention about Restart on sunday on that FIA document. So that means 7+5 is a possibility, especially on tarmac. Would be harder to accomplish on gravel because of worse road position.

[RS]

There are going to be messes that they will need to sort out by tweaking the rules going forwards. It won't seem very fair for example if one driver wins legs 1&2 then retires with a technical failure on the final stage with zero points and another bins it on SS1 but does well on the Sunday and takes home up to 12 points.

[Managarium]

So championship leader, on friday, gravel rally as he starts first on the road, has almost no chance for friday win?
So the rules are still punishing championship leader by sweeping the road.

[bluuford]

I dont know, First rally is monte Carlo Rally, you really want to win this rally, so, you push as hell until Saturday night, you run out of right tyres, but you won the rally. Now you go to Sunday to just complete the race. You run all the day with wrong tyres, you are as slow as hell, other cars are catching you stage and you are the winner at the top of the Col de Turini, looks very nice? and finally it comes out that second place finisher takes the biggest amount of points from the rally, but no, he is the first looser.. who is going to Sweden to clean the road.. you are maybe third on the road, win again on Saturday evening, doing slowly on Sunday as you ran out of good new spiked tyres in Sweden.. and someone else is collecting again more points.. but you won the rally.. Finally, you can win all the rallies of the year, but not winning the championship? This in my view is nonsense.. they should still take overall time of the rally and just award extra points for Sunday if they really want, but why to make these kinds of confusions?

[Tauri_J]

There are going to be messes that they will need to sort out by tweaking the rules going forwards. It won't seem very fair for example if one driver wins legs 1&2 then retires with a technical failure on the final stage with zero points and another bins it on SS1 but does well on the Sunday and takes home up to 12 points.

That is rallying/motosport, a crash or technical failure could happen on any stage, be it ss2 or ss22.

But now that you mentioned it we might get saturday cruising.

[Tauri_J]

So championship leader, on friday, gravel rally as he starts first on the road, has almost no chance for friday win?
So the rules are still punishing championship leader by sweeping the road.

What in the hell is a friday win?

[Managarium]

What in the hell is a friday win?

OK
The fastest driver on friday.

[Tauri_J]

I dont know, First rally is monte Carlo Rally, you really want to win this rally, so, you push as hell until Saturday night, you run out of right tyres, but you won the rally. Now you go to Sunday to just complete the race. You run all the day with wrong tyres, you are as slow as hell, other cars are catching you stage and you are the winner at the top of the Col de Turini, looks very nice? and finally it comes out that second place finisher takes the biggest amount of points from the rally, but no, he is the first looser.. who is going to Sweden to clean the road.. you are maybe third on the road, win again on Saturday evening, doing slowly on Sunday as you ran out of good new spiked tyres in Sweden.. and someone else is collecting again more points.. but you won the rally.. Finally, you can win all the rallies of the year, but not winning the championship? This in my view is nonsense.. they should still take overall time of the rally and just award extra points for Sunday if they really want, but why to make these kinds of confusions?

Now I'm confused. Overall time still decides rally winner or I misunderstood it?

[Tauri_J]

OK
The fastest driver on friday.

Why does it matter here? Its always been like this. Championship leader still has saturday to improve his positioning for sunday.

[Eli]

Now I'm confused. Overall time still decides rally winner or I misunderstood it?

The Rally winner is the one with the overall fastest time come Saturday evening, however he must finish the rally on Sunday to claim that win.

[bluuford]

Now I'm confused. Overall time still decides rally winner or I misunderstood it?

As far as I read, overall time is stopped on Saturday evening. Sunday starts from zero:
For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers, for
Drivers and for Co-Drivers, points will be awarded for each
rally taking into account the general classification after
Saturday (with all time penalties accrued until and including
the final time control on Saturday) according to the following
scale....
...
To score points, the crew must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally. If a crew is not classified in the Final
Classification of the rally, the next Competitor(s) will be moved
up to score points.
...

For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers,
for Drivers and for Co-Drivers, additional points as per the
following scale will be awarded according to an accumulated
general classification of Sunday only, comprising the part
from the first time control after the overnight regroup up to
and including the final time control of the competition element
of the rally (with all time penalties accrued in this part of the
competition).

[Tauri_J]

The Rally winner is the one with the overall fastest time come Saturday evening, however if he must finish the rally on Sunday to claim that win.

That is not true, if it is....my god this is the stupidest thing they have ever done.

[becher]

I think we will still see Sunday cruising, for example driver A is 1th on Satarday, cruises on Sunday to save tyres and then wins the powerstage he'll get 18 points + points for anything between 3rd and 5th on Sunday and 4 or 5 points on the powerstage). It would be hilarious to see that.

Anyway great way to make the sport unattractive for everyone, explaining this to casual fans will be fun and super engaging.

[Tauri_J]

As far as I read, overall time is stopped on Saturday evening. Sunday starts from zero:
For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers, for
Drivers and for Co-Drivers, points will be awarded for each
rally taking into account the general classification after
Saturday (with all time penalties accrued until and including
the final time control on Saturday) according to the following
scale....
...
To score points, the crew must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally. If a crew is not classified in the Final
Classification of the rally, the next Competitor(s) will be moved
up to score points.
...

For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers,
for Drivers and for Co-Drivers, additional points as per the
following scale will be awarded according to an accumulated
general classification of Sunday only, comprising the part
from the first time control after the overnight regroup up to
and including the final time control of the competition element
of the rally (with all time penalties accrued in this part of the
competition).

Yeah I read all about it but it clearly needs clarifycations.

Right now I understand that overall time still decides rally winner.
Rally winner ≠ max/more points than 2nd position or 3rd etc
I mean you could still win the rally(with max points) finishing like 6th on saturday evening and everyone in front of you goes full banzai on sunday and crashes out. You move up from saturdays standing to 1st and will be fastest on sunday (7 points) + PS points.

Anyway my point is it will get super complicated and this point system has so many variations and will be hard to understand for fans. Like you said it would be much easier if it was just extra points for sunday.

[Eli]

That is not true, if it is....my god this is the stupidest thing they have ever done.

If you read bluuford's post you will see it is (unfortunately).

[HKSjbg]

It would have been far simpler to scrap the power stage and tyre regs for Sundays. Call me an old fart but I preferred rallying when it was simply try and achieve the lowest overall time and you get points for that only.

It worked fine until Sebastien Loeb started his dominance and then the problem wasn’t the format, it was that one guy was better than everyone else around him. Regulating against someone or a manufacturer’s dominance is folly and never works, just creates mess.

I agree with the sentiment of ‘lets see how it unfolds this season before judging if it works’ but I always disagree with gimmicks to spice up motorsport and I judge this to be a gimmick. The problem with Sundays is cruising, so eliminate the cause of the cruising instead of adding another layer of contrived ‘show’ in the hope that every minute of every rally will be classic-not-to-be-missed moments.

Sport, and motorsport especially, works best when you allow the natural ebb and flow of competition from event to event. Without panicking that one even was a walkover and last time out was a classic, we didn’t know who was gonna win until the last stage and we’re ruined if the next round doesn’t deliver that exactly all over again!

[focus206]

When actual rally fans have so many questions about the new rules, imagine the casual fans. Up there they are obsessed in their belief that fans hate boring rallies/races and want excitement, but they fail to understand that fans, no matter how casual, hate complicated and unnatural formats even more.

[Tauri_J]

It would have been far simpler to scrap the power stage and tyre regs for Sundays. Call me an old fart but I preferred rallying when it was simply try and achieve the lowest overall time and you get points for that only.



Nah you would lose more fans, especially casual. Power stage is fine as it is right now. Most of the drivers go flatout there and it is really good to watch on TV.

[Kras]

This will make sundays even worse. As some have already mentioned, drivers will cruise to keep their saturday points.

If they are really dead set on using this format, they must remove the superrally rule, or not require the saturday winner to finish the rally to get points.

As it stands now:
- The driver who was the fastest over 2/3 of the rally needs to finish the whole rally to get 18 points.
- The driver who was the fastest over 1/3 of the rally can be someone who binned it on the first corner. He can then get 7+5 points on sunday.

I also expect people who lose time to mistakes and punctures on the first day to just cruise on saturday as theres not enought kms to catch up and all it much more probable that some of the guys fighting for saturday points will bin it and you get free points.

These changes are so stupid, it's like a bad joke

[doubled1978]

Yeah I read all about it but it clearly needs clarifycations.

Right now I understand that overall time still decides rally winner.
Rally winner ≠ max/more points than 2nd position or 3rd etc
I mean you could still win the rally(with max points) finishing like 6th on saturday evening and everyone in front of you goes full banzai on sunday and crashes out. You move up from saturdays standing to 1st and will be fastest on sunday (7 points) + PS points.

Anyway my point is it will get super complicated and this point system has so many variations and will be hard to understand for fans. Like you said it would be much easier if it was just extra points for sunday.

On this I think I agree, extra points on Sunday for whoever is fastest over the last leg would be more simple, and there would be no potential confusion over who ‘won’ the rally. If we have a situation where Saturday leader gets a puncture on Sunday and someone else has lowest overall time but Saturday leader wins the rally, that sounds a bit daft.

[bluuford]

Yeah I read all about it but it clearly needs clarifycations.

Right now I understand that overall time still decides rally winner.
Rally winner ≠ max/more points than 2nd position or 3rd etc
I mean you could still win the rally(with max points) finishing like 6th on saturday evening and everyone in front of you goes full banzai on sunday and crashes out. You move up from saturdays standing to 1st and will be fastest on sunday (7 points) + PS points.

Anyway my point is it will get super complicated and this point system has so many variations and will be hard to understand for fans. Like you said it would be much easier if it was just extra points for sunday.

Overall time counting ends on Saturday evening as stated in regulations. For me that opens the situation that some drivers cars maybe only want to take rally wins (very good and high publicity). For example if conditions in Sweden are really bad, you can use 6 new tyres each loop. you run out of good tyres for Sunday and then it does not matter, as long as you dont go OTL, you can finish Sunday like hours behind, but you are still rally winner by crawling across the finish line.. Like this year in Sardegna, soft tyre was the fastest but there was not enough of them and Sunday was expected to be very bad. Most of drivers run out of softs by Sunday. So, you can now do it, win the rally by Saturday evening and cruise whole Sunday and even loose 5 min in each stage and you are still winner of the rally and get all publicity, despite the fact that maybe someone collects 27 points and you as a winner collect 18 points. So, theoretically it opens the window that you win all the rallies, you get 13 times very high publicity from each rally, but you are not winning the Championship. I dont know if it is what we want?

[Kras]

I think the biggest winner here is Katsuta. On Sunday hell compete only with those who also crashed on saturday. If theres 1 other, hell get 6 points, if theres 2, hell get 5 🤣

[WRCStan]

Overall time counting ends on Saturday evening as stated in regulations. For me that opens the situation that some drivers cars maybe only want to take rally wins (very good and high publicity).

No, it doesn't say a rally win is decided at Saturday in the regulations. Championship points are decided at Saturday evening, subject to completion of the rally. If you want to win the rally you will probably be rewarded well in the championship.

Newer fans will have fewer troubles understanding this because they won't have to unlearn a start-to-finish classification as contribution to the championship.

[WRCStan]

I also expect people who lose time to mistakes and punctures on the first day to just cruise on saturday as theres not enought kms to catch up and all it much more probable that some of the guys fighting for saturday points will bin it and you get free points.

These changes are so stupid, it's like a bad joke

Here you have described zero change.

[Kras]

Here you have described zero change.

Not really. So far this was true for people who lost a lot of time (minutes). They would then cruise till PS and settle for a possibility of 5 points. Now you'll lose 40 seconds and then cruise on saturday and attack 12 points on Sunday.

[bluuford]

No, it doesn't say a rally win is decided at Saturday in the regulations. Championship points are decided at Saturday evening, subject to completion of the rally. If you want to win the rally you will probably be rewarded well in the championship.

Newer fans will have fewer troubles understanding this because they won't have to unlearn a start-to-finish classification as contribution to the championship.

You are correct, I could not find the place that says who is the winner of the rally? Fastest by the end of Saturday? The one who gets most points by Sunday evening? Or they have forgotten to mention that to find out the rally winner they summarize the times of Saturday evening and Sunday:/

[WRCStan]

Not really. So far this was true for people who lost a lot of time (minutes). They would then cruise till PS and settle for a possibility of 5 points. Now you'll lose 40 seconds and then cruise on saturday and attack 12 points on Sunday.

Depending if road order and quantity of Sunday starters means anything. You have a point, smaller mistakes than before will be costlier, but I can't see anybody cruising. We'll have to see.

[WRCStan]

You are correct, I could not find the place that says who is the winner of the rally? Fastest by the end of Saturday? The one who gets most points by Sunday evening? Or they have forgotten to mention that to find out the rally winner they summarize the times of Saturday evening and Sunday:/

I don't think they ever did. But interestingly, now that there are no championship points on offer for final classifications (and rally wins), in a championship dead heat situation, final classifications will still be used.

[bluuford]

I don't think they ever did. But interestingly, now that there are no championship points on offer for final classifications (and rally wins), in a championship dead heat situation, final classifications will still be used.
And now, what is the final classification you refer to? :P Saturday final? points per event final? etc. confusing...

[rp]

At least now the WRC is dead! Is this David Richards´s idea`? What a stupid decision!

[Kras]

Can't wait for drivers oppinions on this. Should be funny

[WRCStan]

And now, what is the final classification you refer to? :P Saturday final? points per event final? etc. confusing...

How long have you been doing this? :)


2.8 END OF THE RALLY
The rally ends upon posting of the Final Classification. The competition element of the rally finishes at the final time control.

64. RALLY RESULTS
64.1 ESTABLISHING RESULTS
The results are established by adding together all the special
stage times and all the time penalties incurred on road sections
together with all other penalties expressed in time.
64.2 PUBLICATION OF RESULTS
During the rally, the classifications to be published will be as follows:
64.2.1 Provisional Classification: classification published by the
organiser at the end of the rally, subject to final scrutineering.
64.2.2 Final Classification: classification approved by the Stewards.

There's no suggestion the supplementary regs/itinerary/format/organisation etc of a rally need to change. We've only been reading about the application of championship points.

[Kras]

How long have you been doing this? :)



There's no suggestion the supplementary regs/itinerary/format/organisation etc of a rally need to change. We've only been reading about the application of championship points.

Shouldn't the win be the end goal of any competition? How can it be a win if it's not a guaranteed best outcome for a competitor. It' just moronic. You can call it a win, a pepsi, a Putin or whatever you like. It's not a win if it doesn't count for anything. And anyone who gets this bullshit explained to him will say its retarded

[bluuford]

How long have you been doing this? :).
too long... I am just wondering that If I have been quite closely involved in Rally for ca 15 years, been on site for last ca 6+ years for nearly every event.. and I cannot clearly understand..
let me try once more to understand now..

Classification for max 18 points are locked when cars go parc Ferme on Saturday evening..
Then there is separate classification for Sunday, you get max 7+5 points. And then rally finishes. So, now you take Saturday time+ Sunday time and you get final classification? That also declares rally winner, but it has nothing to do with the points. So, that means you can be fourth on Saturday (maybe roadsweeping onf Friday, les Sweeping on Saturday), you get 10 points. You are second fastest on Sunday, get 5th place on powerstage and you collect 7 points on Sunday but you win the rally in overall time. So you get 17 points. One point less than winner by the end of Saturday + possible points for this person on Sunday. So, finally there is no more clear relation between rally winner and who is collecting max points for rally..

[seb_sh]

I think it may achieve the goal to reduce cruising on Sunday, but not eliminate it completely and also preserves an endurance aspect by needing to finish Sunday, but boy does it feel contrived. Also I'm not sure there's a good way to decide the winner of the rally!

If winner = leader after Saturday then as bluuford pointed out the winner could receive fewer points than 2nd or 3rd or maybe even lower
If winner = leader of the aggregate Friday, Saturday and Sunday overall standings, then the winner is decided by a classification which does not award points. Again the winner could leave with fewer points.
If winner = most points scored then it feels more like a round of ERC plus a Rally sprint with a power stage added together.

It would be stupid if the winner of the rally goes away with fewer points than somebody else, that's not a winner that's called a sucker...

[Mirek]

So, 2024 sporting regulations are out and big news!

points for Friday and Saturday only;
points for Sunday only;
points for Power Stage

18/15/13/10/8/6/4/3/2/1 on Friday/Saturday;
7/6/5/4/3/2/1 on Sunday
5/4/3/2/1 for Power Stage

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2024_wrc_sr_15_dec_2023_v2.pdf

I don't know how to comment on that. Just imagine how many people spent their well paid time to finally come to this.

[PLuto]

And here I am coming with my first thoughts about words with changes in regulations. First we must say what we really wants. I know that this idea with separate classification for Sunday came also from drivers, but I am thinking how this version should help to anything...

For me, the most stupid thing is not to have points for drivers who are fastest in whole rally. This is the most easiest and understandable way for everybody in all sports - winner is competitor who is fastest from beginning till the end.

We were discussing few years ago points system in czech championship also. I think we have found a system which is not completely bad and much better than this one - we have separate points for each leg (15 for winning each leg) and also classification of the whole rally (30 points). So points for winning the rally are equal to points for winning both legs. It is much easier and understandable.

This version of WRC points is one big shit for me. Too complicated for everybody and absolutely hard to understand. I cannot imagine how this can help to anything. Only to bring WRC to deeper shit than it is now...

[WRCStan]

Shouldn't the win be the end goal of any competition? How can it be a win if it's not a guaranteed best outcome for a competitor. It' just moronic. You can call it a win, a pepsi, a Putin or whatever you like. It's not a win if it doesn't count for anything. And anyone who gets this bullshit explained to him will say its retarded

Fair opinion. But winning the rally will have it's own prize awarded by the organiser. FIA championship can be seen as a different objective, like how Burns and Ogier won titles driving smart with only two wins.

Realistically we might not see an occasion where the winner is outscored. I might put that in a prediction thread. Or, there may be occasions where the non-winning highest point scorer is fully deserved.

It might not work well, but FIA and promoter are doing *something*. Those people who complained for years that they need to do *something* need to stop living in fantasy land and be realistic about what is achievable.

[Kenneth]

Imagine driver A is first after Saturday. He has 18 points. So he decides to cruise on Sunday, but all the other drivers will push. He will end 7th that day and overall gets 19 points. Also, because he cruised, he fell to 4th place overall, but that has no impact on points.

Driver B on the other hand would have issues in the first leg and end up 5th after Saturday. He will get 8 points for that, so he decides to push on Sunday. He would end 2nd overall after Sunday, and as the fastest driver of that day, he would get 7 points for the leg and 5 points for PS win. Overall, he would get 20 points for the event.

Then we have a very consistent driver C. He will finish 1st leg on 2nd place behind driver A, gaining him 15 points. Then he would want to gain more points on Sunday, he would be 2nd that day and 2nd in PS, that would gain him 6+4 points he would get 25 points overall and would be the winner of the rally.

I didn't like it at first, but it looks to me like a pretty solid point system that awards speed and consistency through the whole rally (as it kinda soft delete time gaps on Sunday). Maybe it would be better if points were rewarded also for the overall results after Sunday (even if it would be 5-4-3-2-1) and if there weren't PS points. I think there won't be many situations where overall winners wouldn't get the most points. But it's true that it's pretty complicated on first sight.

[ik1911]

Who will be a winner of the rally, driver with a best overall time or driver with more points!

[CeskyOndra]

For me it is quite good point system, BUT there is ONE BIG ERROR.. WINNING RALLY IS NOT SO VALUABLE NOW.. THATS WRONG!!

[seb_sh]

Just to be clear, apparently the change was discussed at the Baku WMSC meeting and then ratified by the WRC task force.

"World Motor Sport Council discussed the potential for change at its Baku meeting earlier this month, with the WMSC Task Force ratifying both this change and the option for Rally1 cars to run without a hybrid system." (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrcs-radical-points-change-to-stop-sunday-driving/)

[Kenneth]

For me it is quite good point system, BUT there is ONE BIG ERROR.. WINNING RALLY IS NOT SO VALUABLE NOW.. THATS WRONG!!

Yeah completely excluding the overall results seems like a bad step. Even some small amount of points for winner or top 3 would fix that.

[becher]

This is a solution looking for a problem isn't it? Sunday cruising only became a big issue since we got All live right? Cruising through part of a rally (or sometimes even the whole one) was always part of it. I can't comprehend that someone thought that an integral part of pretty much any form of motorsport is such a big problem that they threw the kitchen sink at it and made it so unclear that people working in the sport and hardcore fans struggle to disect how it works.

The other classes still run the normal 3 day format with standardized FIA point system?

[focus206]

This is a solution looking for a problem isn't it? Sunday cruising only became a big issue since we got All live right? Cruising through part of a rally (or sometimes even the whole one) was always part of it. I can't comprehend that someone thought that an integral part of pretty much any form of motorsport is such a big problem that they threw the kitchen sink at it and made it so unclear that people working in the sport and hardcore fans struggle to disect how it works.


I agree. Nobody likes when a rally or a race is predictable towards the end, but that's just how motorsport is. Overcomplicating the scoring system this way is like flooding an entire village because one house is on fire.
Power Sunday instead of Power stage would have been okay for me. Hell, even Neuville's idea of having a 2 days rally + an independent rallysprint on Sunday - which I don't like - would be better, much clearer to understand for fans, especially who might be attracted to WRC for the first time.
I hope it will end up working better than expected.

[EstWRC]

i dont understand why you guys take for granted atm that the guy who is first after saturday, will cruise on sunday, at least this is what reflects in the posts so far.

Now they all must speed up on sunday, so they wouldnt loose points against each other or im getting it wrong again?

I just looked at this years Monte results for an example with the new points system

The end result would have been:

Ogier 26 (same amount he got this year with the "old" system)
Rovanperä 26 (23 in 2023)
Neuville 20 (17 in 2023)
Evans 17 (15 in 2023)
Tänak 13 (14 in 2023)
Sordo 7 (6 in 2023)
Katsuta 6 (8 in 2023)
Lappi 5 (3 in 2023)

The top 4 after saturday was also the fastest top4 on sunday overall. The only man who gained a position was Sordo, he was 7th in this years classification but would have been 6th with the new system.

im not protectin the new idea or anything, like i said, i will wait for couple of rallies but the value of the win isnt that great indeed anymore which is sad.

[satnav]

Rep.of Ireland bids for WRC in 2025...

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2023/12/13/e100-million-economy-boost-if-limerick-wins-bid-to-stage-wrc/?utm_source=SocialAutoPoster&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR19U5nu1sN8HTVVetpb9QWLjOjJz9wO-xhAg55a0_jRF1TcjIAPOXI3izI

A bit more info here from the horses mouth so to speak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGkgXYGHvAs&t=1748s

[WRCStan]

Hell, even Neuville's idea of having a 2 days rally + an independent rallysprint on Sunday - which I don't like - would be better, much clearer to understand for fans, especially who might be attracted to WRC for the first time.

Erm...

[focus206]

Erm...

You've read it right.

[WRCStan]

You've read it right.

Do you not think the differences here are just the realities of applying that vision?

[focus206]

Do you not think the differences here are just the realities of applying that vision?

No, to me it seems a clumsy and overcomplicated way to apply that vision, a vision that I rate anyway worse than the system we've had so far.

[CeskyOndra]

Yes totally no problem with points but for me it is really chaotic and strange for everybody.

[Andre Oliveira]

64. RALLY RESULTS
64.1 ESTABLISHING RESULTS
The results are established by adding together all the special stage times and all the time penalties incurred on road sections
together with all other penalties expressed in time.

Why people saying no more all stage times counting to winner? That is clear. The rally winner appuration is same.

[WRCStan]

What's your thoughts Andre? You understand the game enough.

[the sniper]

At least now the WRC is dead! Is this David Richards´s idea`? What a stupid decision!

He's just coming to put the nails in the coffin, to finish the job he started...

[trykmann]

The new rules sound just stupid. Now many of us can't even clearly understand hoe the winner of an event is determined.

The real problem is lack of competition due to the small amont of competitors. They should deal with actual problems no some pseudo bullshit.

If they wanted to make Sundays more interesting in a understandable manner, then it would have been easier just give extra points for stage wins on Sunday and maybe give a set of new tyres before powerstage.

I think this will be a only a one year experiment.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

The new rules sound just stupid. Now many of us can't even clearly understand hoe the winner of an event is determined.

How do you determine it now? Nothing is changing.

In six months time all of this will be universally understood, if not accepted.

[Rallyper]

How do you determine it now? Nothing is changing.

In six months time all of this will be universally understood, if not accepted.

And everyone on this forum will recount championship after 2023 rules... :) :)

[trykmann]

How do you determine it now? Nothing is changing.

In six months time all of this will be universally understood, if not accepted.If people have to debate or discuss how to understand the rules, then we can conclude they are not easily understandable.

Rules have to be simple.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[becher]

If people have to debate or discuss how to understand the rules, then we can conclude they are not easily understandable.

Rules have to be simple.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Exactly, you want to be able to look at the results and determine how many points each driver got from the top of your head. If you have to go to ewrc and check saturday and sunday results separately and then apply two different point schemes it's not exactly customer (=fan) friendly.

[WRCStan]

And everyone on this forum will recount championship after 2023 rules... :) :)

Absolutely, in fact I'd be surprised if there isn't an alternative table somewhere throughout the season.


If people have to debate or discuss how to understand the rules, then we can conclude they are not easily understandable.

Rules have to be simple.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Many people didn't read properly, jumped to conclusions and spread false information. Like people deciding in their own heads this is Dave Richard's fault lol. I burnt my toast this morning, Dodgy Dave struck again grrr!

[WRCStan]

Exactly, you want to be able to look at the results and determine how many points each driver got from the top of your head. If you have to go to ewrc and check saturday and sunday results separately and then apply two different point schemes it's not exactly customer (=fan) friendly.

Everybody's different, I know if I want the rally results, I look there. And if I want the championship standings, I look there. I never could distribute 116 points and calculate new standings of 10-20 drivers on the top of my head.

[Kenneth]

Many people didn't read properly, jumped to conclusions and spread false information. Like people deciding in their own heads this is Dave Richard's fault lol. I burnt my toast this morning, Dodgy Dave struck again grrr!

Yeah exactly, thank you! If people would read rulebook first this situation wouldn't happen. It's simple. You look at the changes and there is something that isn't clear to you? Try to find an answer in the rulebook. Didn't find the answer there? Then it's time to discuss, maybe someone else finds the answer.

But no, people rather jump to conclusions and even if someone actually links the answer in the rulebook, like you did WRCStan, many people here still ignores it lol.

[ictus]

Pickems 2024 will be interesting ;)

[AndyRAC]

When you need to change the points system, you know there's a problem. I don't understand the problem with 'Sunday cruising'....it's a part of motorsport; nearing the finish of an event, if you're in a safe position, why not play it safe, and get to the finish.
The problem is a lack of top cars on the final day.......not the points system.

[Kenneth]

Yeah but we won't magically get more cars. There are much bigger changes needed for that, but we all know FIA won't make them... They didn't make them in last 25 years and won't make them anytime soon.

So it's at least some change that could make the race more atractive.

[Sulland]

Rules need simplification and freedom, not the opposit.

3 days, minimum 100 km SS per day.
minimum ss km in total 300, max 400. Endurance perspective vs 3 x sprints.

points for 1-15 using same scale as in ERC: 30, 24, 21, 19, 17, 15, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 point(s). Reason easier to get sponsors with points in hand.

Powerstage gets own competition on last stage in every rally. Minimum ps length 10 km.
points given: 10, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1.

Same systems used for all championships in WRC, (wrc1, wrc2, wrc3),

.

Juniors: own rules for scoring and tyres

- Tyres free in wrc2 and 3.
- all season class winners named world champions WRC1, 2 and 3.
- system for small and large services during rally need to be adopted.
- notes confirmation crews allowed in wrc1-3 (gravel crews) reason; safety.

- Normal pump fuel mandatory in all classes. Reason, cost control.

new scoring system.



1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th


30
24
21
19
17
15
13
11


9th
10th
11th
12th
13th
14th
15th



9
7
5
4
3
2
1

[WRCStan]

When you need to change the points system, you know there's a problem. I don't understand the problem with 'Sunday cruising'....it's a part of motorsport; nearing the finish of an event, if you're in a safe position, why not play it safe, and get to the finish.
The problem is a lack of top cars on the final day.......not the points system.

With respect to your opinions Andy, Sulland, others too; you are 'old farts' as somebody happily self-identified earlier in this thread. Your vision of WRC/rallying/motorsport isn't shared by the FIA and WRCPromoter.

If you can't see the problems they see and only see problems they don't, and that they don't fix your observed problems is a problem of theirs; is this the series for you?

[Sulland]

With respect to your opinions Andy, Sulland, others too; you are 'old farts' as somebody happily self-identified earlier in this thread. Your vision of WRC/rallying/motorsport isn't shared by the FIA and WRCPromoter.

I think you are partially right.
My impression is that the promotor does what they can to make the european sport rally, into something americans would like. Quick, compact and tv friendly.
But again they are americans, and they are not always logical, seen with european glasses.

[the sniper]

With respect to your opinions Andy, Sulland, others too; you are 'old farts' as somebody happily self-identified earlier in this thread. Your vision of WRC/rallying/motorsport isn't shared by the FIA and WRCPromoter.

If you can't see the problems they see and only see problems they don't, and that they don't fix your observed problems is a problem of theirs; is this the series for you?

So we're told the new potential audience for the WRC is young and has a short attention span, so the change that is made is the introduction of a points system that has to be studied if you have any chance of understanding it (kids love to study), when the new potential audience wouldn't even have been aware of the problem it was trying to solve...

[seb_sh]

Many people didn't read properly, jumped to conclusions and spread false information. Like people deciding in their own heads this is Dave Richard's fault lol. I burnt my toast this morning, Dodgy Dave struck again grrr!

He was involved, no need for mocking. This change was discussed in Baku and then signed off by the task force (Richards and Reid). (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrcs-radical-points-change-to-stop-sunday-driving/)

There are multiple potential other solutions to Sunday cruising and they chose one of the stupidest ones. There are issues with this solution besides "hurr durr people don't read":
a. the rally "winner" can go home with fewer points the someone finishing lower down. Even if by chance it doesn't happen it's still a stupid rule if it allows this in my opinion.
b. he final rally classification does not directly award points at all. Instead points are given by: an intermediate classification, a leg classification and a stage classification.

Who asked for this? I know there was Jonne Haltunen's interview where he suggested that the rally was over on Saturday and then Sunday are just two passes of the PS with points give for the total time and drivers suggested giving points for Sunday, or points for stage wins. Any of those suggestions would have been more straightforward and would have achieved the same goal. Instead perhaps this was a classic case of "not invented here" so they had to go out of their way to come up with something else. Complex rules are prone to having issues either by being exploited or by producing unintended consequences, while simple rules tend to be more robust. It's frustrating that while they did do something and personally I think will achieve the goal of reducing Sunday cruising, they did it in such a stupid way, like it was the result of a night of drinking in some bar in Baku.

[WRCStan]

So we're told the new potential audience for the WRC is young and has a short attention span, so the change that is made is the introduction of a points system that has to be studied if you have any chance of understanding it (kids love to study), when the new potential audience wouldn't even have been aware of the problem it was trying to solve...

Few study points, most of us will just accept the standings as read/told. Few hardcore fans watch Sunday's stages now. Ref Andy's point, switching off the cruising crews is no good for WRC Promoter. The problem they see is fewer eyeballs and engagement. Changing the points is a method to liven it up, thus increasing engagement. But there's more to it than this points system change why I ask this question. Sulland talks about a points system that is good for privateers' sponsors. FIA and Promoter do not give a flying fck about privateers. The idea WRC is a sport and they have duty to provide this service is detached from reality IMO.

Then there is the usual topics that perpetually crop up. According to FIA and Promoter; 10 Rally1 cars is enough. 3 Manufacturers is enough. Rally2/+ will not replace Rally1. WRC is never going to be a privateer series. All these points that are raised here with the belief the FIA doesn't know what it is doing, that going back to the past is what is really required. 'Old farts' don't make reason out of what the FIA/Promoter is doing and is trying to achieve, just moan.

[WRCStan]

He was involved, no need for mocking. This change was discussed in Baku and then signed off by the task force (Richards and Reid). (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrcs-radical-points-change-to-stop-sunday-driving/)

OK, the rally working group involving Richards and Reid was announced during the Baku meet. It will cover issues beyond WRC to grassroots rallying. https://www.fia.com/news/fia-statement-future-rallying

WMSC discusses and approves/rejects motions proposed to it, including all championship or discipline rules. They also approved the rule change at the Baku meet. No way the new working group invented and thrashed through this change, to propose it to the WMSC, to discuss, to vote on, within those days. After WMSC ratified the system change idea it said a WMSC Task Force was responsible for setting the points distribution. This may have involved Richards as a WMSC member, we don't know for sure. https://www.fia.com/news/wmsc-gathers-baku-final-meeting-landmark-year

The proposal would likely have come from the WRC Commission, given it's a WRC regulation and not a general rallying rule and with so few manufacturers involved. Richards is not a member of these. There's also the WRC working groups, task forces and committees elsewhere, such as the meeting with drivers that Solberg chaired as Drivers Commission president. That was the meeting that had 80 ideas discussed, one of which is likely to be this points change.

Come to think of it, does Richards even have skin in the WRC game? He can't even be bothered to get a WRC round going as MSUK chief. It's possible he gets involved, he is on the senate I think, but I still think it's better to have some evidence.

[HKSjbg]

…you are 'old farts' as somebody happily self-identified earlier in this thread.

I wouldn’t say I’m happy about having reached old-fart age

[WRCStan]

I wouldn’t say I’m happy about having reached old-fart age

Would you "reluctantly accept". :D

[the sniper]

I wouldn’t say I’m happy about having reached old-fart age


Mid thirties old fart here. If I'm too old to be relevant to their thinking, good luck to them and their new audience.

[focus206]

Mid thirties old fart here. If I'm too old to be relevant to their thinking, good luck to them and their new audience.

When I happen to watch touring car or GT races live on YT and there's a live chat (clearly mostly populated by a younger audience), I see much more often people complaining or being confused by the few not intuitive rules (for examples, the tons of different driver classes in GT World Challenge) than people complaining about the race being boring or predictable. Most people who approach motorsport to begin with, are mature enough to understand that not every race can be exciting until the end. Of course, if 90% of events in a championship are that way, then it's a problem.

[TypeR]

Seeing that there is so much confusion about the new rules for couple of days.. WRC/FIA should have already explained and made it clear.. but seems they don't care.

And with that ,,old-fart'' story... ah, better not. Young-manbuns.

PS 32yo.. but if rules that should be easy and simple to understand create such discussion in many guys tied to rallying, then there is something wrong.

[HKSjbg]

Would you "reluctantly accept". :D

More like ‘begrudgingly accept’. Maybe we’re just getting confused about the new rules because our minds are turning to mush :D

[wyler]

italian media did 23 vs 24 point system comparison on this year championship.
result is: nothing changes, except classification is shorter. Rovampera even got the same exact point of this year.

here their statement: "What would have changed by applying the new points scoring for the 2023 WRC season to the 2024 season? Practically NOTHING, except to have a shorter leaderboard, in the sense of reduced gaps at the end of the season.
As you can see from the simulation I did (barring errors and omissions of course) you can see how the FIA scores for the 2024 season have been drawn up. The simulations were done on Rovanpera, who in fact turns out to have the same final points with one scoring system or the other. The intention then was not to upset anything but to make the championship more tightly contested until the last race."
2499

[bluuford]

I made my own calculation just for first four rallies and what did I found?
1. Rovanperä and Ogier collected the same amount of points in Monte (26/26).
2. After Sweden, Tänak would not have been first on the road in Mexico, but he would have been third. (1. Rova 44 points, 2. Neuville 40 points, 3. Tänak 39 points).
3. After four rounds, classification would have looked like below. Note that Rovanperä who would have led according to 2024 rules by 6 points was actually trailing by 2 points and in position three. Note that Rovanperä had only one second place and three fourth places. So, basically with one podium you can lead the championship with some margin ;) That means, there is not so much point to fight for the win as it is not so much rewarded, if you finish near podium, it is fine..

New Old
Rovaperä 79 67
Evans 73 69
Neuville 73 58
Tänak 66 66
Ogier 70 69
Lappi 28 31
Katsuta 19 18
Sordo 18 17
Sunninen 0 0
Loubet 10 14
Breen 20 19