[WRC] FORUM8 Rally Japan 2023

[wwbroe]

Off for Ogier, but not too much time lost

[dimviii]

Tänak Ott - Järveoja Martin
"New issue, some electric problem, no anti-lag and throttle is in road mode."

[wwbroe]

Taka fastest man trough

[EstWRC]

Tänak Ott - Järveoja Martin
"New issue, some electric problem, no anti-lag and throttle is in road mode."

Luckily only two days left with this piece of crap

[wwbroe]

Munster again on good pace

[wwbroe]

Very good performance by Munster sofar, really close to besttime of Gryazin. Mikkelsen playing it safe with the advantage he has. I still think notional time for Munster on stage 2 isn't fair.

[wwbroe]

Neuville went off

[EstWRC]

Oh Thierry….

[wwbroe]

So, that is it, Evans can now just control the rally, with teammate Ogier behind him. Seems Toyota is going to win this time in Japan

[EstWRC]

This series is just so dead. I mean rally1 class

It’s sad

[TypeR]

Neuville beats Solberg's ,,record''..? D

[wwbroe]

Another besttime for Taka, gutted for what happened this morning

[rp]

This series is just so dead. I mean rally1 class


That´s true! There should be more teams and more better drivers.

[wwbroe]

Another great time for Munster, three Rally2 cars on places 4,5 and 6

[mousti]

Very good performance by Munster sofar, really close to besttime of Gryazin. Mikkelsen playing it safe with the advantage he has. I still think notional time for Munster on stage 2 isn't fair.They should appeal it.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[Tauri_J]

Could Thierry ever figure out how to keep it on the black stuff?

[wwbroe]

They should appeal it.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk
He has applied for another notianal time

[jonkka]

Could Thierry ever figure out how to keep it on the black stuff?

Well, he's won a number of tarmac rallies so... yes?

[EstWRC]

Neuville off https://x.com/officialwrc/status/1725409040753123663?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[wwbroe]

Another besttime for Taka, really strong drive in the afternoon

[EstWRC]

Munster is really starting to impress lately. Great day from him also

[wwbroe]

Munster is really starting to impress lately. Great day from him also
Absolutely true, hope they correct his notional time on stage 2

[Tauri_J]

Well, he's won a number of tarmac rallies so... yes?

consistently

[Lead]

They corrected Munster's time on SS2 ,so now he is only 3sec behind Mikkelsen

[spyros]

Good morning.2 wrc 2 cars in top 5 , hyundais drama early in the rally.

[Rallyper]

I think top drivers should take a deep breath.
Like Mirek says, this isn´t wrong conditions. This is rallying.
If you can´t handle this, why drive like you have to win every stage? Where have tactics gone?

Cancelling stages because of heavy rain is not what the sport of rallying needs.

BTw. Go back to square one: make Rally2 cars top class. In six months everyone have forgot the expensive hybrid cars...

[EstWRC]

Please stop already with this “make rally2 top class”. It really is a broken record

It isn’t going to happen and it isn’t a solution

[EstWRC]

Neuville

https://x.com/dirtfishrally/status/1725449820209304063?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[EstWRC]

Ogier 6 minutes late out of service and 1 minute penalty

[Rallyper]

Please stop already with this “make rally2 top class”. It really is a broken record

It isn’t going to happen and it isn’t a solution

Well, maybe you´re happy with the current status then?

I´m not.

[EstWRC]

Grandstands full of people!!!!!

Amazing

[meh]

Ogier 6 minutes late out of service and 1 minute penalty

So, after first day of rally, diff between 1st and 2nd will be around 2minutes, If Evans don't mess it up.

[Mirek]

Well, maybe you´re happy with the current status then?

I´m not.

You're acting like it was a solution. It's not even though you might believe it is.

[COD]

You're acting like it was a solution. It's not even though you might believe it is.

I fail to see why it would not be? All current teams have a car + more manufacturers, privateer teams with a reasonalble chance to impress and so many more positives. What is so good about these hybrid creations that would prevent rally2 becoming top class?

[denkimi]

What happened to Lappi, or what is wrong with the car?

[meh]

What happened to Lappi, or what is wrong with the car?

He is best Hyundai in the rally and just won a stage, all good :)

... just some crash-history to carry from past rallies, probably it makes sense to just reach to the finish somehow.

[wwbroe]

What happened to Lappi, or what is wrong with the car?

Just driving safely trough the stages, especially in the morning with horrible conditions

[becher]

I fail to see why it would not be? All current teams have a car + more manufacturers, privateer teams with a reasonalble chance to impress and so many more positives. What is so good about these hybrid creations that would prevent rally2 becoming top class?
Because all manufacturers involved consistently said they don't want Rally2 as a top class, the only other cars left are the Citroen an Skoda and neither would get active in works capacity and finally the days of privateers and local heros mixing it with the top drivers are probably past us regardless of the cars.

[linni]

No you don't need air conditioning.

Grönholm was the one and only driver who refused to drive in hot conditions without AC, so they got fitted one in his Peugeot.

But simple electrically heated windscreen would be enough.

Or this one, if they could afford it:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Windshield-Atomobile-Windscreen-Cigarette-default/dp/B0BJW5328K

[becher]

Grönholm was the one and only driver who refused to drive in hot conditions without AC, so they got fitted one in his Peugeot.

But simple electrically heated windscreen would be enough.

Or this one, if they could afford it:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Windshield-Atomobile-Windscreen-Cigarette-default/dp/B0BJW5328K

Didn't Solberg mention on SS3 that they have heated windscreens or did I mishear that?

[Mirek]

I fail to see why it would not be? All current teams have a car + more manufacturers, privateer teams with a reasonalble chance to impress and so many more positives. What is so good about these hybrid creations that would prevent rally2 becoming top class?

There are several points.

The first thing is that Rally2 simply don't make sense as a marketing tool for the manufacturers. Simply said they are an advert for times that passed. The marketing departments of the manufacturers won't ever permit massive investment into promoting petrol cars.

Second thing is that the true manufacturers don't want that. Why? Because the last thing their public image needs is some privateers beating them.

Third thing is that now the Rally2 cars are quite equal and affordable cars. Once the works teams start to use them as the top class the equality is gone. In one or two years maximum the cars won't be equal anymore. And not only one type to another but also cars from works teams compared to the cars from private ones. The real running cost of a competitive car will rise immediately as well no matter how strict the rules are.


The first point is the most important. WRC must decide whether it will stay as a top tier championship where massive money of the global enterprises are being spent or a sport of hobby drivers. In first case WRC absolutely needs to find a story to promote in the future. That is missing now. Everyone and his dog can see that WRC fails to find a viable concept for its future. Today the WRC only lives from its past and making Rally2 the top class would just underline that.

The other option is to fuck the enterprises and make WRC a sport of private hobby drivers. In that case you have to prepare for money leaving the sport. It means that in a few years live coverage will disappear. Some iconic events will start to disappear because the government support will disappear. The TV coverage will start to disappear etc.

[EstWRC]

Amen Mirek!

[TypeR]

Grönholm was the one and only driver who refused to drive in hot conditions without AC, so they got fitted one in his Peugeot.

But simple electrically heated windscreen would be enough.

Or this one, if they could afford it:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Windshield-Atomobile-Windscreen-Cigarette-default/dp/B0BJW5328K
Cool fact about Gronholm and actually makes sense. Normal temp keeps you more focused, sharper and less tired at the end of the days..

And yes, even such portable device could have helped. They know the conditions and what could happen.. but yet again foggy windscreens.

[linni]

Didn't Solberg mention on SS3 that they have heated windscreens or did I mishear that?

Was sleeping at this time, but for some reason WRC2 cars did not have major problems with windscreen misting.

[Mirek]

I thought all Rally1 and Rally2 cars had heated windscreens.

[linni]

I thought all Rally1 and Rally2 cars had heated windscreens.

AFAIK no one has, at least in WRC1. It`s just not a windscreen, it has to contain some relays in a chain which is extra weight. Still stupid decision not to have one. It`s not the first case during the last couple of years.

[Mirek]

AFAIK no one has, at least in WRC1. It`s just not a windscreen, it has to contain some relays in a chain which is extra weight. Still stupid decision not to have one. It`s not the first case during the last couple of years.

That surprises me. I know for sure that Fabia R5/Evo has it (it's manufactured in ACG Teplice factory). Not sure about the new RS ones but I guess they have it too considering they had no issue on the stages.

[becher]

Hmm the weight penalty mjght be small, but from what I've heard the Rally1 cars are very difficult to get towards the minimum weight, so they might start to compromise in silly areas.

[spyros]

i know that rally 1 cars have more temp in duo to hybrid system that rally 2 do not have and in case that outside has low temp then we have this situation.

[TypeR]

About Ogier's car and penalty:

“During the full inspection of the car back in the technical zone here in service, it was deemed with the FIA that we needed to make a repair to the chassis,” he said.

“There was some damage to the space frame where the FIA required us to exchange a tube – which is a really big job.”

[WRCStan]

Per, the stage was cancelled because rescue services were hindered by the weather. Had nothing to do with the Rally1s.

I'm not sure if you're all on the same page talking about heated screens. There's a difference between adequate blowers/vents and screens with electric heating elements like my rear screen. As far as I can see the Rally1s don't have sufficient blowers/dispersion of blown air. Doesn't have to be heated or air con, just ambient air will do.

[WRCStan]

The other option is to fuck the enterprises and make WRC a sport of private hobby drivers. In that case you have to prepare for money leaving the sport. It means that in a few years live coverage will disappear. Some iconic events will start to disappear because the government support will disappear. The TV coverage will start to disappear etc.

And your top class drivers have left too so you end up with current WRC2 as top class, for one season maybe until the series dies.

[becher]

i know that rally 1 cars have more temp in duo to hybrid system that rally 2 do not have and in case that outside has low temp then we have this situation.

More likely the exhaust routing (remember the complaints from co drivers in late 2021/early 2022?) and the tube frame nature of the cars than the motor generator unit.

[br21]

All current Rally1 and Rally2 cars have heated windscreens. It's not any extra weight as heated/non heated windscreens weight difference is really not relevant. It's also basically 2m of extra wiring needed, so also not extra weight. And power is supplied anyway by power boxes, so no any extra fuses, etc.
All the cars have also quite efficient blowers. But there are certain conditions when those are not efficient enough, with so much water all around, cold outside temps, very warm inside temps, etc.
Sometimes the difference is made by the moment when you close your roof vent, or if the water goes inside by roof vent, etc, etc

[linni]

All current Rally1 and Rally2 cars have heated windscreens. It's not any extra weight as heated/non heated windscreens weight difference is really not relevant. It's also basically 2m of extra wiring needed, so also not extra weight. And power is supplied anyway by power boxes, so no any extra fuses, etc.
All the cars have also quite efficient blowers. But there are certain conditions when those are not efficient enough, with so much water all around, cold outside temps, very warm inside temps, etc.
Sometimes the difference is made by the moment when you close your roof vent, or if the water goes inside by roof vent, etc, etc

First, overall safety regulations from at least two decades back demand to have relay/cutoff in power circuit of the heating of the screens. Not to cause overheating / fire.

Second, if you have had heated windscreen on your car once, you cannot justify the misted windscreens of most of the WRC1 drivers from last night. Just cannot happen.

Third, remeber some times ago Ott to mention about lack of any demister. Believe it was during Hyundai times.

[CeskyOndra]

Out of the theme, but do you think that there will be another drama tomorrow? Im afraid, that Saturday will become Sunday.. Just cruising trought

[linni]

Just cruising. No one has motivation, except Mikkelsen :)

[seb_sh]

After Sordo, Fourmaux will also not restart

https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status/1725511529817317870?t=FnY9o7VQluCTTuTJFZkm6g&s=19

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_I6a4rW0AAOmM5?format=jpg&name=large

[Rallyper]

There are several points.

The first thing is that Rally2 simply don't make sense as a marketing tool for the manufacturers. Simply said they are an advert for times that passed. The marketing departments of the manufacturers won't ever permit massive investment into promoting petrol cars.

Second thing is that the true manufacturers don't want that. Why? Because the last thing their public image needs is some privateers beating them.

Third thing is that now the Rally2 cars are quite equal and affordable cars. Once the works teams start to use them as the top class the equality is gone. In one or two years maximum the cars won't be equal anymore. And not only one type to another but also cars from works teams compared to the cars from private ones. The real running cost of a competitive car will rise immediately as well no matter how strict the rules are.


The first point is the most important. WRC must decide whether it will stay as a top tier championship where massive money of the global enterprises are being spent or a sport of hobby drivers. In first case WRC absolutely needs to find a story to promote in the future. That is missing now. Everyone and his dog can see that WRC fails to find a viable concept for its future. Today the WRC only lives from its past and making Rally2 the top class would just underline that.

The other option is to fuck the enterprises and make WRC a sport of private hobby drivers. In that case you have to prepare for money leaving the sport. It means that in a few years live coverage will disappear. Some iconic events will start to disappear because the government support will disappear. The TV coverage will start to disappear etc.

Well, well, maybe Rally1 should stay. But I´m not sure.

What I´m definitely sure of is that local drivers never will beat the teams drivers when going in same cars (Rally2). Not even when it´s eight days in a week.

[WRCStan]

What I´m definitely sure of is that local drivers never will beat the teams drivers when going in same cars (Rally2). Not even when it´s eight days in a week.

So what was your point in advocating it?

[br21]

First, overall safety regulations from at least two decades back demand to have relay/cutoff in power circuit of the heating of the screens. Not to cause overheating / fire.

Second, if you have had heated windscreen on your car once, you cannot justify the misted windscreens of most of the WRC1 drivers from last night. Just cannot happen.

Third, remeber some times ago Ott to mention about lack of any demister. Believe it was during Hyundai times.

1. In modern Rally1/Rally2 there are no any extra relays, etc. Only master switch. Everything else is managed by power modules (which have kind of software relays/fuses, etc).
2. Yes, I have heated windscreen in my car. But I don't have 900degC exhaust temp in my car, also not 50+degC inside in my car and I'm not driving throught the water like rally guys. Also no roof vent, no bonnet openings, etc in my car. And that is all what makes the difference.
3. Depending on weather conditions you install or remove internal heat exchangers but blowers and heated windscreens are always mounted in the Rally1/2 cars.

[WRCStan]

2. Yes, I have heated windscreen in my car. But I don't have 900degC exhaust temp in my car, also not 50+degC inside in my car and I'm not driving throught the water like rally guys. Also no roof vent, no bonnet openings, etc in my car. And that is all what makes the difference.

Maybe linni meant you cannot justify the designs of these cars. It's heavy rain in Japan like most of us have and would still drive through in our cars. These summertime racecars aren't fit for purpose - a fit and healthy WRC.

[linni]

1. In modern Rally1/Rally2 there are no any extra relays, etc. Only master switch. Everything else is managed by power modules (which have kind of software relays/fuses, etc).
2. Yes, I have heated windscreen in my car. But I don't have 900degC exhaust temp in my car, also not 50+degC inside in my car and I'm not driving throught the water like rally guys. Also no roof vent, no bonnet openings, etc in my car. And that is all what makes the difference.
3. Depending on weather conditions you install or remove internal heat exchangers but blowers and heated windscreens are always mounted in the Rally1/2 cars.

You kind of controversing, having 900 deg C and 50 deg C in the cabin at the same time.
But definitely it`s an interesting topic. Needs some further investigation.
Will find out and be back.

Still, have seen temp differences in lots of rally cars in Scandinavian climate, nothing familiar with this.

[linni]

Maybe linni meant you cannot justify the designs of these cars. It's heavy rain in Japan like most of us have and would still drive through in our cars. These summertime racecars aren't fit for purpose - a fit and healthy WRC.

Yes, that`s the point. You have to be prepared. Like us in here, where winter tires are mandatory during winter time and you just do not go out on summer tires.

[br21]

When it's dry then temperature difference is not that problematic.
When the conditions are like in Japan now you have many different things happening at the same time - just pouring water on red hot exhaust manifold creates loads of mist and humidity, etc.
And if it happens in all 3 cars then you know it's not so simple - of course it shouldn't happen but it happens and because of other reason than just stupid lack of heated windscreen and blower...

[Mirek]

First, overall safety regulations from at least two decades back demand to have relay/cutoff in power circuit of the heating of the screens. Not to cause overheating / fire.

Second, if you have had heated windscreen on your car once, you cannot justify the misted windscreens of most of the WRC1 drivers from last night. Just cannot happen.

Third, remeber some times ago Ott to mention about lack of any demister. Believe it was during Hyundai times.

Listen to br21, he knows.

Please follow this small example.

It's cold outside and it's raining.

You have a road car with internalvolume 2 m3. There is 22°C inside. You come inside completely wet and the water starts to evaporate. The maximum amount of water the 2 m3 of air at 22°C can take is 38 gramms. The rest stays in the form of liquid in the clothes or on the floor.

Now you have a second car with the same internal volume but the inner temperature is 50°C. Again you bring some water inside on your clothes and shoes. The maximum amount of water which can evaporate in 2 m3 of air is now 164 gramms. So your air in the car now contains 4,3x more water.

Where the air hits the cold glass it cools itself and the water condenses because the colder the air is, the lesser amount of water it can take. If you have the same heated windsreen which is capable to heat the screen to let's say 30°C average you have no misting in the road car but you still have big misting problem in the other one (the air at 30°C can take only 37% of water compared to the air at 50°C) and due to the fact that the inner humidity is already 100% the blowers don't work.

So the resume is that you have to either heat the windscreen to higher temperature than what the ambient temperature inside the car is. Or you need to bring less water inside (may not be possible), or you need to lower the humidity (not possible without A/C). Or you need to somehow cool down the temperature inside the car. If you have very high temperature drop between the inside and the outside, heating the screen enough might not be possible, so you need to let as much air from the outside to get in because the air from the outside even if it's wet, will still help because it's much colder but the amount of air you can let in is very limited by the vents. You can't drive on stage with opened windows because it's forbidden. After all you might end in a situation where nothing helps.

[Mirek]

Still, have seen temp differences in lots of rally cars in Scandinavian climate, nothing familiar with this.

When temperature is bellow zero the air humidity is usually low and you don't bring plenty of water inside the car in your clothes.

[WRCStan]

This forum is insane. 20 pages of demister chat and I'm just spending my Friday afternoon refreshing the page to see if anything got added. Well done lads.

[PLuto]

This forum is insane. 20 pages of demister chat and I'm just spending my Friday afternoon refreshing the page to see if anything got added. Well done lads.

This discussion seems more interesting than rally itself :)

[ictus]

This forum is insane. 20 pages of demister chat and I'm just spending my Friday afternoon refreshing the page to see if anything got added. Well done lads.

It's way better that 20 posts of:
"Sordo is off", "Taka is up on split 1"
The info you get browsing any resaults page...

[Danny0405]

No Super Rally for Sordo and Fourmaux.
Would be a bit of a pity for Sordo to end his career like this.
And not a good news for Fourmaux considering the situation; well, even if Sordo also doing the mistake gives him a bit of comparison, clearly a bad stuff to end as soon as the first real stage.

[Tauri_J]

Formaux is just a driving disaster. He got a new chance after binning it regulalry, and now he crashes on a first proper stage.

[linni]

Listen to br21, he knows.

Please follow this small example.

It's cold outside and it's raining.

You have a road car with internalvolume 2 m3. There is 22°C inside. You come inside completely wet and the water starts to evaporate. The maximum amount of water the 2 m3 of air at 22°C can take is 38 gramms. The rest stays in the form of liquid in the clothes or on the floor.

Now you have a second car with the same internal volume but the inner temperature is 50°C. Again you bring some water inside on your clothes and shoes. The maximum amount of water which can evaporate in 2 m3 of air is now 164 gramms. So your air in the car now contains 4,3x more water.

Where the air hits the cold glass it cools itself and the water condenses because the colder the air is, the lesser amount of water it can take. If you have the same heated windsreen which is capable to heat the screen to let's say 30°C average you have no misting in the road car but you still have big misting problem in the other one (the air at 30°C can take only 37% of water compared to the air at 50°C) and due to the fact that the inner humidity is already 100% the blowers don't work.

So the resume is that you have to either heat the windscreen to higher temperature than what the ambient temperature inside the car is. Or you need to bring less water inside (may not be possible), or you need to lower the humidity (not possible without A/C). Or you need to somehow cool down the temperature inside the car. If you have very high temperature drop between the inside and the outside, heating the screen enough might not be possible, so you need to let as much air from the outside to get in because the air from the outside even if it's wet, will still help because it's much colder but the amount of air you can let in is very limited by the vents. You can't drive on stage with opened windows because it's forbidden. After all you might end in a situation where nothing helps.

Yes, it all makes sense.

Everything but why the teams do not take it in consideration.
Just read an interview with Loeb, where he said, that having a mist problems in a 1 million eur car is nonsense.

[linni]

This forum is insane. 20 pages of demister chat and I'm just spending my Friday afternoon refreshing the page to see if anything got added. Well done lads.

Stan, the humidity is the only topic of Rally Japan. Not much else to discuss.

P.S. I hope the first ever WRC 2 car will be on podium at Sunday.

[denkimi]

Formaux is just a driving disaster. He got a new chance after binning it regulalry, and now he crashes on a first proper stage.
In his defence, both katsuta and sordo binned it on the same corner, so it most likely something he could not have avoided.

[ouvreur]

AFAIK no one has, at least in WRC1. It`s just not a windscreen, it has to contain some relays in a chain which is extra weight. Still stupid decision not to have one. It`s not the first case during the last couple of years.

Every single Rally1 and Rally2 car has a heated screen.

[flat_right]

A friend in need is a friend indeed.

https://i.ibb.co/JyJ2G5s/hyundai.png (https://ibb.co/vQnmTZj)

[Mirek]

Yes, it all makes sense.

Everything but why the teams do not take it in consideration.
Just read an interview with Loeb, where he said, that having a mist problems in a 1 million eur car is nonsense.

We woud need to do some pretty complex math but heating the windscreen to 50+ °C at cold weather and high speeds definitely requires a lot of power because the windscreen is actively cooled from the outside with very high efficiency. I can't compute that myself but it's definitely several kilowatts. That doesn't mean only that you need a source to deliver such power but you also need to have thick enough wires in the glass. My very rough estimation is around 5 kW in situations like here in Japan. That is 10x more than what standard road car heated screens are capable of. You also need 3-4x thicker (and much better visible) wires.

I'm also not sure whether there wouldn't be a risk of cracking the glass from temperature shocks combined with mechanical shocks and vibrations.

For sure if it had a simple solution no team would have problems.

[dimviii]

ABITEBOUL CRITICAL OF NEUVILLE’S ‘RUSHED’ APPROACH
THIERRY NEUVILLE CRASHED OUT OF SECOND WHILE CHASING DOWN THE LEAD, WHICH HASN'T IMPRESSED HIS BOSS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-critical-of-neuvilles-rushed-approach/

[CeskyOndra]

ABITEBOUL CRITICAL OF NEUVILLE’S ‘RUSHED’ APPROACH
THIERRY NEUVILLE CRASHED OUT OF SECOND WHILE CHASING DOWN THE LEAD, WHICH HASN'T IMPRESSED HIS BOSS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-critical-of-neuvilles-rushed-approach/

Partly agree with him, but in these conditions it is really easy to make a mistake

[drive]

I fail to see why it would not be? All current teams have a car + more manufacturers, privateer teams with a reasonable chance to impress and so many more positives. What is so good about these hybrid creations that would prevent rally2 becoming top class?
I have watched real WRC 5 times this year, 7 times last year and so on... and I WANT Rally1 as top class, because seeing them fly past is very big difference comparing with Rally2 cars...
Yes, now is not enough teams and cars, but that is anther story

[linni]

We woud need to do some pretty complex math but heating the windscreen to 50+ °C at cold weather and high speeds definitely requires a lot of power because the windscreen is actively cooled from the outside with very high efficiency. I can't compute that myself but it's definitely several kilowatts. That doesn't mean only that you need a source to deliver such power but you also need to have thick enough wires in the glass. My very rough estimation is around 5 kW in situations like here in Japan. That is 10x more than what standard road car heated screens are capable of. You also need 3-4x thicker (and much better visible) wires.

I'm also not sure whether there wouldn't be a risk of cracking the glass from temperature shocks combined with mechanical shocks and vibrations.

For sure if it had a simple solution no team would have problems.

If you cannot heat the things up, you have to think, how to ventilate the moisture out. Sunroof will do, or full cabrio (smile). Or something between.
Anything, but I have to give credits to Ogier - how the hell the windscreen is misty in my 1 mil eur car?

[EstWRC]

ABITEBOUL CRITICAL OF NEUVILLE’S ‘RUSHED’ APPROACH
THIERRY NEUVILLE CRASHED OUT OF SECOND WHILE CHASING DOWN THE LEAD, WHICH HASN'T IMPRESSED HIS BOSS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-critical-of-neuvilles-rushed-approach/

wow, thats the most critical i have seen him so far

[Mirek]

If you cannot heat the things up, you have to think, how to ventilate the moisture out. Sunroof will do, or full cabrio (smile). Or something between.
Anything, but I have to give credits to Ogier - how the hell the windscreen is misty in my 1 mil eur car?

IMHO the only reliable solution is A/C unit. The problem is that it has about 20 kg and takes a lot of space.

[linni]

IMHO the only reliable solution is A/C unit. The problem is that it has about 20 kg and takes a lot of space.

There has to be another solution. Let`s see, what`s coming on in Monte. The moisture is there a problem as well.
I wonder if no team has taken any measures due to it.

[TypeR]

It is all doable. If they could do it 20y ago, they can do it today.
About AC
1) thread from 2007:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?5878-Air-conditioning-in-WRC-cars

2)Wrc wings post about 307 WRC:
https://www.wrcwings.tech/2023/03/06/aerodynamics-of-the-peugeot-307-wrc-the-only-cabrio-based-wrc-rally-car/

3) LATVALA's statement from last year
https://dirtfish.com/rally/latvala-suggests-aircon-to-fix-rally1-cockpit-issue/

“This is my personal opinion – we could have air conditioning in the cars, but it needs to be the same for everybody,” Latvala told DirtFish.

“The same model, the same weight and everything,that could be one solution.

Easy and should be done for drivers'/codrivers' safety.

[COD]

Same marketing. It would be the top of the sport then. Why would it make less sense marketing a car that looks the ones sold in showrooms than these tubeframed winged monsters that hardly resemble the roadcars?

[linni]

Once the cars are hybrid kinda, why not the heat pump? Fits more to "green" technologies.

[COD]

There has to be another solution. Let`s see, what`s coming on in Monte. The moisture is there a problem as well.
I wonder if no team has taken any measures due to it.

I think Ogier said that problem is the cars are tube framed with plastic panels, a lot of water getting in from cracs. He said these problems are not happening with real car based rally2 cars of previous WRC machines

[becher]

I think Ogier said that problem is the cars are tube framed with plastic panels, a lot of water getting in from cracs. He said these problems are not happening with real car based rally2 cars of previous WRC machines

I think thats quit accurate.

[denkimi]

Perhaps they should install windscreen wipers on the inside too

[COD]

Perhaps they should install windscreen wipers on the inside too

Or just to return to cars based on roadcar frames

[bomber21]

The empty stadium is really embarassing.

[CeskyOndra]

The empty stadium is really embarassing.

Yesterday, there were quite a lot of people actually

[Mirek]

Or just to return to cars based on roadcar frames

That would be a really bad idea for the WRC future.

[Mirek]

Same marketing. It would be the top of the sport then. Why would it make less sense marketing a car that looks the ones sold in showrooms than these tubeframed winged monsters that hardly resemble the roadcars?

Because for the manufacturers it's much more expensive, time consuming and complicated to work with the road car bodyshell than with the space frame. Imagine that whatever change happens in the road car may affect the rally car and if you need to modify the bodyshell for the rally car you have to go trough super expensive and super time consuming process of changing the stock production.

For the manufacturers the optimal way is to keep the motorsport department completely separated from the production. With that you can do the same change with handful of people and only within the motorsport department budget. In the other case you may need hundreds of people, months of meetings and plannings and a lot of money from outside of the motorsport department budget for the very same change (in the end you probably end with not executing it and stay with sub-optimal solution).

Moreover the stock cars are less and less suitable for being converted into rally cars. By requiring a stock bodyshell you close the door for large part of the pool of potential competitors. That itself is a stupid thing to do.

[becher]

Because for the manufacturers it's much more expensive, time consuming and complicated to work with the road car bodyshell than with the space frame. Imagine that whatever change happens in the road car may affect the rally car and if you need to modify the bodyshell for the rally car you have to go trough super expensive and super time consuming process of changing the stock production.

For the manufacturers the optimal way is to keep the motorsport department completely separated from the production. With that you can do the same change with handful of people and only within the motorsport department budget. In the other case you may need hundreds of people, months of meetings and plannings and a lot of money from outside of the motorsport department budget for the very same change (in the end you probably end with not executing it and stay with sub-optimal solution).

Moreover the stock cars are less and less suitable for being converted into rally cars. By requiring a stock bodyshell you close the door for large part of the pool of potential competitors. That itself is a stupid thing to do.

For car enthusiast this is a hard pill to swallow, but the truth.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231117/2cebb54c367bb9b83c598824f9c011fd.jpg

[Mirek]

Plenty of mistakes in the onboard of Neuville. A lot of understeer and wrong lines.

Anyway the stage has been so far so twisty that it's been completely unspectacular :(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Because for the manufacturers it's much more expensive, time consuming and complicated to work with the road car bodyshell than with the space frame. Imagine that whatever change happens in the road car may affect the rally car and if you need to modify the bodyshell for the rally car you have to go trough super expensive and super time consuming process of changing the stock production.

For the manufacturers the optimal way is to keep the motorsport department completely separated from the production. With that you can do the same change with handful of people and only within the motorsport department budget. In the other case you may need hundreds of people, months of meetings and plannings and a lot of money from outside of the motorsport department budget for the very same change (in the end you probably end with not executing it and stay with sub-optimal solution).

Moreover the stock cars are less and less suitable for being converted into rally cars. By requiring a stock bodyshell you close the door for large part of the pool of potential competitors. That itself is a stupid thing to do.

But its been that way for all of the WRC, apart from the crazy Group B period. Plus it's been fine for producing all the Rally2 / R5 cars..

Spaceframe chassis was brought in for scaling reasons so any new Manufacturer could use any model... but none have joined WRC anyway.

[CeskyOndra]

This stage is so so tricky. It is a shame, that we have not some kind of battle

[Mirek]

What the hell is happening?

[SubaruNorway]

You're joking

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More chaos already..

[CeskyOndra]

What?

[satnav]

Joke show

[CeskyOndra]

Let's cancel it, we have enough kilometres today hahaha

[CeskyOndra]

And Katsuta just flying?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Taka doesn't know and carries on !

[EstWRC]

Drop this rally

[SubaruNorway]

Imagine if Taka had crashed into the 0 car... Must have broken down?

[Mirek]

But its been that way for all of the WRC, apart from the crazy Group B period. Plus it's been fine for producing all the Rally2 / R5 cars..

Spaceframe chassis was brought in for scaling reasons so any new Manufacturer could use any model... but none have joined WRC anyway.

That changes nothing on those points. The fail to attract new manufacturers is not caused by switching to space frames. Switching to production bodyshells would not make it any better but only worse.

[CeskyOndra]

Comedy

[becher]

So the zero car was on stage without any reason?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That changes nothing on those points. The fail to attract new manufacturers is not caused by switching to space frames. Switching to production bodyshells would not make it any better but only worse.

But it was only brought in for the very purpose of attracting new manufacturers.

[CeskyOndra]

Zero car still standing here, I totally don't understand

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Joke of a rally. I'm off to bed.

[CeskyOndra]

Rally basically decided after 3 stages and now this is happening..

[becher]

But it was only brought in for the very purpose of attracting new manufacturers.
Yeah much better to not change and gamble on the few that are still there leaving.

On a serious note, M Sport would be toast if the Rally1 car was based on a roadcar.

[Mirek]

But it was only brought in for the very purpose of attracting new manufacturers.

That's not true. The main reason was hybrids.

Anyway you shall look at it from the other side and ask why they didn't manage to bring new manufacturers despite that move, i.e. search for the true reason... and that is that WRC simply don't have the marketing value worth joining.

[satnav]

Looking at the tracking map, Lappi is almost at the finish of the stage, he was the last one to start, Rovanpera is still at the start....... Just restarted

[WRCStan]

So the zero car was on stage without any reason?

Why was it parked on the racing line?

Remember last year with the civilian car? This is probably just as shambolic, and other events would certainly be kicked out the calendar for two calamity rallies in a row.

[Mirek]

Very weird decision to let Kalle in racing mode. If such fuck up was up to me I would cancel it for all WRC and let only WRC2 in race mode. Now they need to give notional times to 2/3 WRC cars.

[WRCStan]

Very weird decision to let Kalle in racing mode. If such fuck up was up to me I would cancel it for all WRC and let only WRC2 in race mode. Now they need to give notional times to 2/3 WRC cars.

With Rally2s in the mix, it's easier to set with finishers.

[Peperoma]

What about next stage? Will be delayed or gaps will be longer?

[satnav]

I'd reckon it will be delayed to close the gap between EP and Kalle

[becher]

Why was it parked on the racing line?

Remember last year with the civilian car? This is probably just as shambolic, and other events would certainly be kicked out the calendar for two calamity rallies in a row.

I didn't see it, is there footage of the incident?

[WRCStan]

I didn't see it, is there footage of the incident?

Last year? Not the car, but plenty of reports and caused a red flag that we did see Pajari and Lindholm stopped in the stage chatting about it.

This year? It was a parked car, not very interesting. Try RallyTV.

[er88]

This silly exF1Renault goon annoys me.
Plant the seed that the expectations are win or nothing before the event, then act shocked when the only driver in your team capable of winning, bins it while fighting for the lead in the most difficult conditions imaginable. How is Thierry's mistake here anything like the Greece retirement anyway? Totally different. We know Thierry can crack under pressure granted, but there was none here and dont blame a driver for mechanical failures like in Greece. Common knowledge the Hyundai is flimsy.

Abitebouls views change daily whatever side of bed he wakes up on. One day the drivers will get it, next it'll be the mechanics, then engineers or meteo crew. He is an erratic man, who's personality causes instability throughout a team. Its common knowledge he managed Renault shockingly in F1, its public. But i know 3 folk who worked under him in various roles during that time, so have more info than most on how he manages people/emotions when things aren't perfect. And I can tell you it isnt good, to say the least. All 3 friends of mine can't be wrong, and two of them still work for alpine so clearly have a bit about them and found working conditions better since....

Will be a laugh next season when the pressure is on bigtime to win both titles, while Cyril manages two tier1 drivers while fighting Toyota in a sport he doesn't really know. With one arrogant driver (Neuville) who thinks the team is his but cracks under championship pressure..., and the other a sulky Estonian who wasn't even happy in his championship winning year driving the best car he will ever have..., nevermind when swallowing his pride and returning to a team/car that didnt suit his picky needs just over a year ago........

[er88]

This silly exF1Renault goon annoys me.
Plant the seed that the expectations are win or nothing before the event, then act shocked when the only driver in your team capable of winning, bins it while fighting for the lead in the most difficult conditions imaginable. How is Thierry's mistake here anything like the Greece retirement anyway? Totally different. We know Thierry can crack under pressure granted, but there was none here and dont blame a driver for mechanical failures like in Greece. Common knowledge the Hyundai is flimsy.

Abitebouls views change daily whatever side of bed he wakes up on. One day the drivers will get it, next it'll be the mechanics, then engineers or meteo crew. He is an erratic man, who's personality causes instability throughout a team. Its common knowledge he managed Renault shockingly in F1, its public. But i know 3 folk who worked under him in various roles during that time, so have more info than most on how he manages people/emotions when things aren't perfect. And I can tell you it isnt good, to say the least. All 3 friends of mine can't be wrong, and two of them still work for alpine so clearly have a bit about them and found working conditions better since....

Will be a laugh next season when the pressure is on bigtime to win both titles, while Cyril manages two tier1 drivers while fighting Toyota in a sport he doesn't really know. With one arrogant driver (Neuville) who thinks the team is his but cracks under championship pressure..., and the other a sulky Estonian who wasn't even happy in his championship winning year driving the best car he will ever have..., nevermind when swallowing his pride and returning to a team/car that didnt suit his picky needs just over a year ago........https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-critical-of-neuvilles-rushed-approach/

[WRC1]

what a farce of an event....we have new zealand and argentinia ...classic events and what we get...Japan

they should organise a show event with 24 Stadium stages each day but not real stages

[EstWRC]

What the hell has Katsuta being eating during this rally. Where this speed suddenly comes

[TypeR]

Neuville, Katsuta and Tanak got thru basically dry, Lappi and all others got rain and snow :D

Must be nice surprise with slick tyres :D

[EstWRC]

This silly exF1Renault goon annoys me.
Plant the seed that the expectations are win or nothing before the event, then act shocked when the only driver in your team capable of winning, bins it while fighting for the lead in the most difficult conditions imaginable. How is Thierry's mistake here anything like the Greece retirement anyway? Totally different. We know Thierry can crack under pressure granted, but there was none here and dont blame a driver for mechanical failures like in Greece. Common knowledge the Hyundai is flimsy.

Abitebouls views change daily whatever side of bed he wakes up on. One day the drivers will get it, next it'll be the mechanics, then engineers or meteo crew. He is an erratic man, who's personality causes instability throughout a team. Its common knowledge he managed Renault shockingly in F1, its public. But i know 3 folk who worked under him in various roles during that time, so have more info than most on how he manages people/emotions when things aren't perfect. And I can tell you it isnt good, to say the least. All 3 friends of mine can't be wrong, and two of them still work for alpine so clearly have a bit about them and found working conditions better since....

Will be a laugh next season when the pressure is on bigtime to win both titles, while Cyril manages two tier1 drivers while fighting Toyota in a sport he doesn't really know. With one arrogant driver (Neuville) who thinks the team is his but cracks under championship pressure..., and the other a sulky Estonian who wasn't even happy in his championship winning year driving the best car he will ever have..., nevermind when swallowing his pride and returning to a team/car that didnt suit his picky needs just over a year ago........

Wow. Someone having a bad mood it seems

[Tauri_J]

Neuville, Katsuta and Tanak got thru basically dry, Lappi and all others got rain and snow :D

Must be nice surprise with slick tyres :D

Its weird that they were surprised of snow, it was on the forecast.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

What the hell has Katsuta being eating during this rally. Where this speed suddenly comesFujiwara's special tofu

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Gonek]

This silly exF1Renault goon annoys me.
Plant the seed that the expectations are win or nothing before the event, then act shocked when the only driver in your team capable of winning, bins it while fighting for the lead in the most difficult conditions imaginable. How is Thierry's mistake here anything like the Greece retirement anyway? Totally different. We know Thierry can crack under pressure granted, but there was none here and dont blame a driver for mechanical failures like in Greece. Common knowledge the Hyundai is flimsy.

Abitebouls views change daily whatever side of bed he wakes up on. One day the drivers will get it, next it'll be the mechanics, then engineers or meteo crew. He is an erratic man, who's personality causes instability throughout a team. Its common knowledge he managed Renault shockingly in F1, its public. But i know 3 folk who worked under him in various roles during that time, so have more info than most on how he manages people/emotions when things aren't perfect. And I can tell you it isnt good, to say the least. All 3 friends of mine can't be wrong, and two of them still work for alpine so clearly have a bit about them and found working conditions better since....

Will be a laugh next season when the pressure is on bigtime to win both titles, while Cyril manages two tier1 drivers while fighting Toyota in a sport he doesn't really know. With one arrogant driver (Neuville) who thinks the team is his but cracks under championship pressure..., and the other a sulky Estonian who wasn't even happy in his championship winning year driving the best car he will ever have..., nevermind when swallowing his pride and returning to a team/car that didnt suit his picky needs just over a year ago........

https://businessf1magazine.com/march-2023-free-digital-issue/

[Rallyper]

So what was your point in advocating it?

One of the arguments against Rally2 cars was just that local heroes would be start winning against factory drivers. Which I just pointed never will happen if so.
I´m still not happy with Rally1 hybrid cars. Too fast, too expensive.
Rule number one: keep things simple.
Let the competition be exciting.
Enjoy.

[skarderud]

what a farce of an event....we have new zealand and argentinia ...classic events and what we get...Japan

they should organise a show event with 24 Stadium stages each day but not real stagesThe main problem in Japan is the extreme fear to do something wrong, they end up doing nothing if a boss hasen't told them what to do.
Noone do anything, even if its obvious that a parked car in the road will hinder the rally, they will just go around the car and be stressed untill a boss shows up and tell them to move it.

A friend of mine mounting toilets on boats and was in Japan to do so, when the premade mountingholes didn't fit. He started to made new ones, as any sane person just do, was denied of the japanese people there, he had to wait a half day before a CEO come by and said ok.

A country run like this will never be able to host anything that needs local decitions as its 1000's of in a rally.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[TypeR]

Nice battle going on between Mikkelsen and Munster. Munster had to stop and restart the car, but could take good amount back on next stage..
Katsuta took also a lot back from Tanak. Will see if Tanak can keep up with him as podium isn't too impossible(requires some ,,help'' from the top3 tho)..

[EstWRC]

Taka will definitely get Tänak. He took 22 seconds out of the gap today.

I wouldn’t even rule out he will catch Lappi. He also admitted it’s his mission to get 4th

[TypeR]

Notional times were changed for SS9(revised after SS13).
Tanak's time was cut off by 10.2s and Lappi's by 4.6s. So the gap between Tanak and Katsuta is 13.8 and Lappi is 24.5s ahead of Tanak before SS16.

[240RS]

Taka will definitely get Tänak. He took 22 seconds out of the gap today.

I wouldn’t even rule out he will catch Lappi. He also admitted it’s his mission to get 4th

I seriously doubt Tanak is anywhere near his best. If he wants the position, he will keep it. No doubt. Though, he and Taka are buddies. . .

[CeskyOndra]

Is it going to be freezing overnight? Probably yes. Early start at 7 o clock. Can we see some Ice?

[CeskyOndra]

First stage of the morning is around the river, this could mean some ice

[EstWRC]

Notional times were changed for SS9(revised after SS13).
Tanak's time was cut off by 10.2s and Lappi's by 4.6s. So the gap between Tanak and Katsuta is 13.8 and Lappi is 24.5s ahead of Tanak before SS16.

Thanks for the info!

That changes the situation a lot

[EstWRC]

First stage of the morning is around the river, this could mean some ice

Yep and the stages are more up in the mountains.

Could be interesting morning

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Speaking about the WRX S4, does it basically a Group N with sequential gearbox??

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[meh]

Out of 15 driven stages, Rovanperä has been in top3 stage times once (SS15). It probably was not predicted before the rally.

[becher]

Not a single mention about the zero car incident on SS9 on the saturday highlights. This is a joke!

[ictus]

Not a single mention about the zero car incident on SS9 on the saturday highlights. This is a joke!

would you shoot yourself in the foot ?

[SubaruNorway]

Snow In the middle of SS19 i think
https://twitter.com/ena_rally/status/1725813396623462690

[ictus]

Katsuta fined 675€ for speeding in the service park

[CeskyOndra]

Snow In the middle of SS19 i think
https://twitter.com/ena_rally/status/1725813396623462690

What a shame that this stage is running ať 9 o clock instead of 7 o clock.. But this could mean that other stages will be affected too

[becher]

would you shoot yourself in the foot ?

Trying to consistently cancel out any negative noise, is much more damaging in the long run.

[Mirek]

I think that rules shall limit number of SSS. For me personally zero is enoug but of course I get their meaning. So let's say one every day is acceptable but six?

[CeskyOndra]

If somebody will get tyre choice, please send it here

[paddocknews]

If somebody will get tyre choice, please send it here

https://twitter.com/paddocknews/status/1725991578156593489/photo/1

[CeskyOndra]

https://twitter.com/paddocknews/status/1725991578156593489/photo/1

Thanks man

[Mirek]

Trying to consistently cancel out any negative noise, is much more damaging in the long run.

Here you have a press release about that. It just explains nothing :)
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/fia-explains-bizarre-wrc-rally-japan-stage-stoppage/10548073/

[Mirek]

Taka all over the place. Hopefully he won't lose a wheel somewhere.

And now Ott overshot...

[TypeR]

Oh.. such a mistake from Tanak..
I'm afraid that mistake results in givibg place to Taka

[EstWRC]

Oh man. Tänak was really lucky there

[Mirek]

ATM it doesn't look impossible for all top 4 Toyota at the end.

[EstWRC]

It will happen

Tänak and Lappi just nowhere with their speed

[jonkka]

ATM it doesn't look impossible for all top 4 Toyota at the end.

I am afraid distance will run out before that. Of course, if Lappi hits trouble, everything is possible.

[Mirek]

Crazy moment for Munster spinning 1,5 rotations!

[CeskyOndra]

I think that Taka will get Lappi by speed

[Mirek]

Monte Carlo vibes strong in here.

Taka playing pinball with the armco :)

[EstWRC]

Taka was lucky there was a barrier otherwise he would have been in the ditch

But his speed at this rally is a mystery to me. Almost feels like he is cheating somehow

[CeskyOndra]

This is absolutely disaster from Tanak, 19 sec behind Katsuta

[WRCStan]

This is absolutely disaster from Tanak, 19 sec behind Katsuta

He's passed caring , there's nothing particularly wrong.

[Steve Boyd]

Good to see the Dirtfish Live Centre now integrated at the bottom of the ewrc.com results pages...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/80245-forum8-rally-japan-2023/?s=437143
No it isn't - it's a PITA! :mad:

Every time I click on a stage to get the latest times & classification it jumps straight to the bottom & I have to scroll all the way back to the top to see what I want to read. It's even worse with autorefresh - it goes back to the bottom of the page at every refresh.

Please somebody take it away!

[PLuto]

Munster crashed...

[Danny0405]

Munster crashed...

It benefits to Hiroki Arai (ex-Junior Toyota driver as competitor of Katsuta) who should finish in top 10… with a 2WD Rally4 car.

[WRC1]

Taka was lucky there was a barrier otherwise he would have been in the ditch

But his speed at this rally is a mystery to me. Almost feels like he is cheating somehow

I think the others are just cruising, as Evans said in one stage end interview: If someone wants to make a really big push, they can take a minute in there.

So Taka is on his normal speed, but the Big Boys are just holding position

[Negaiss]

Taka was lucky there was a barrier otherwise he would have been in the ditch

But his speed at this rally is a mystery to me. Almost feels like he is cheating somehow

Katsutas times are very good - too good for him. I would say maybe he knows some roads by hearth. It helps.

[Negaiss]

One thing I noticed about rally Japan - zero punctures for rally1 and top rally2.

[EstWRC]

This rally summed up the whole season pretty much IMO

Toyota - dominating once again with the best car(at least reliability wise) and with a very good lineup who doesn’t do mistakes often (except Taka)

Hyundai - able to take the fight to Toyotas more often but the drivers mistakes (Neuville in Croatia and Japan, Lappi in Mexico and more) and some reliability problems (Portugal, Kenya, Greece) have given the wins to them.

Msport - well, nothing to say here

[NoFear85]

Steward decision about SS9
https://app-cdn.sportity.com/5848cc98-d554-4cf8-96de-cf9585cd2bdb/35d12b3b-a3c5-467a-8b8f-52c8e6e5cc21_Stewards%20Decision%204.pdf

[Rallyper]

And here the thread faded out like dead meat.
Like the whole rally...

[meh]

And here the thread faded out like dead meat.
Like the whole rally...

Yes, rally was kind of over after SS6. I guess for Toyota team the 1-2-3 was so important to deliver, that Ogier and Rovanperä were quite on the cruise/safe mode. Boring to watch, but smart driving.

[Mirek]

One thing I noticed about rally Japan - zero punctures for rally1 and top rally2.

I guess it's because on most of the road it was impossible to cut. Even in the forests there were very often kerbs along the road.

[WRCStan]

And here the thread faded out like dead meat.
Like the whole rally...

Like the season...

Like the series...

Like the sport...

Like the car...

Like life.

[Rallyper]

Like the season...

Like the series...

Like the sport...

Like the car...

Like life.

Not life.

[SubaruNorway]

It's the same every year, i manage to stay awake the whole weekend and then i fall a sleep before the powerstage...

[CeskyOndra]

It's the same every year, i manage to stay awake the whole weekend and then i fall a sleep before the powerstage...

Exactly

[WRCStan]

Not life.

I don't mean a human's life, just general apathy in life. Politics, war, economy, sport, human relationships... nothing sustains our attention and efforts. Sign of the times, lots of change happening at a fast pace, we've no longer got mass/common identities to bind us, and in our own bubbles there's too much information and content to consume or act upon; everything just fades like dead meat as you say. Hopefully it's just my observation.

[seb_sh]

I barely saw anything live but watched the end of day retrospectives. The changing conditions and leaves and so on could have made an interesting rally but unfortunately with so many of the few cars hitting trouble soon and the rest having nothing to play for there was not much to follow to be honest. Katsuta seemed fast but nobody was pushing when he was. Tanak obvously didn't give 2c if he finished 4th or 6th.

Congratulations to Toyota and Evans. They really had the best team and car this year overall. Also Evans wins another of those "unusual" rallies with difficult conditions and trobule for others.

[Eli]

Unfortunately couldn't follow the rally proper last weekend however from what I can it was pretty interesting, however for next year it would be nice to have night stages, after all, most of us viewers are from Europe and it would be nice to follow the rally with more than 2 stages each day at a reasonable hour. Especially considering this is a tarmac rally. Also can some manufacturer please announce their arrival in this sport so we can have more than 4 full time rally drivers please!

[Jarek Z]

I don't mean a human's life, just general apathy in life. Politics, war, economy, sport, human relationships... nothing sustains our attention and efforts. Sign of the times, lots of change happening at a fast pace, we've no longer got mass/common identities to bind us, and in our own bubbles there's too much information and content to consume or act upon; everything just fades like dead meat as you say. Hopefully it's just my observation.

No, it's not just you. I see it in the same way. I find it very sad.