[WRC] Central European Rally 2023 (26-29 Oct)

[Mirek]

No idea, some sort of officials car went through honking.

When there is a long delay you need to send a safety car in to prevent people walking on the stage.

By the way I just checked the weather and it seems that the rain shall be mostly over and even the sun may appear from time to time. It will be drying which might bring some advantage to the later runners. We'll see.

[Tauri_J]

Lappi's car. A lot of damage to the back end.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/80244_387319769_299437036315055_158542712457997102 5_n.jpg

Wow nature doesnt like empty space or what was that saying. Seems like Lappi has taken Meeke's spot.

[Myrvold]

I can't wait for it to be MRF, and Ogier leaves and a top car opens up for a young, interesting driver to come in....

It's not like Ogier actually takes a spot from any other driver though. If Ogier hadn't done any rallies this year. Toyota would juse use Katsuta in the 3rd car for all rallies, and not add a 4th unless there's a Bertelli or Latvala.
Ogier is basically an extra car the rallies he does.

[seb_sh]

Lappi's crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nhk2IlZvts

I think I know now why he was smiling when they showed him in car...

[Myrvold]

Apparently, Rossel broke his arm during the accident

Isn't that a bit too early to know? (at the time it was posted at least)

[Mirek]

Another videw. The fans were very lucky...
https://www.facebook.com/motorsportcom.polska/videos/1476511529557448/

[Tauri_J]

Lappis crash
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8Nhk2IlZvts

Could these idiots stop standing at the outside of a corner. Linnamäe at Acropolis, Lappi at Chile and now this. Someone's getting killed at this pace.

[Tauri_J]

Another videw. The fans were very lucky...
https://www.facebook.com/motorsportcom.polska/videos/1476511529557448/

Holy shit, this is crazy

[seb_sh]

Another videw. The fans were very lucky...
https://www.facebook.com/motorsportcom.polska/videos/1476511529557448/

wow, that could have been 5-7 people on the way to the hospital or worse...

[manthey]

Lappi has a lot of experience from Czech roads and he used to be pretty fast on them. Just rarely in the finish...When I read it, I thought could be his occasion

[Eli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ACdjhTP_90

Seems like a DNF here, don't think they'll comeback for super rally.

[jonkka]

You simply can't leave such decisions to fans, all non-safe spectating points should be clearly marked as off-limits and enforced by marshals.

[Sal yet again]

Could these idiots stop standing at the outside of a corner. Linnamäe at Acropolis, Lappi at Chile and now this. Someone's getting killed at this pace.

Only a matter of time I'm afraid and no one wants that type of PR. The more footage like this though that gets posted online the more locked down for responsible experienced spectators the sport will become.

[Mirek]

You simply can't leave such decisions to fans, all non-safe spectating points should be clearly marked as off-limits and enforced by marshals.

I'm pretty sure that place was marked as a restricted area. The problem is that small percentage of people don't give a shit about anything. Safety, logic, self preservation. Nothing. And when something bad happens it's of course not their fault but of the others.

And it's not only about ralying it's general ignorance and lack of respect. I do a lot of hiking and I meet people absolutely inadequately clothed in the mountains having completely wrong shoes etc. Then other people need to risk to get them down when the weather gets bad or they twist their ankle.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231027/02e08b82da887a7d43863f949cf38492.jpg

[jonkka]

I'm pretty sure that place was marked as a restricted area.

That's why I also stated that off-limits areas need to be overseen by marshals. I didn't spot any in the video.

[Sal yet again]

I'm pretty sure that place was marked as a restricted area. The problem is that small percentage of people don't give a shit about anything. Safety, logic, self preservation. Nothing. And when something bad happens it's of course not their fault but of the others.

And it's not only about ralying it's general ignorance and lack of respect. I do a lot of hiking and I meet people absolutely inadequately clothed in the mountains having completely wrong shoes etc. Then other people need to risk to get them down when the weather gets bad or they twist their ankle.

Problem is everyone wants their phone footage online for likes. You only have to look at the stories of influencers and the like falling to their deaths from cliffs and other beauty spots to realise that your simply cant fully legislate for the Lowest Common Denominator faction. All we will see is more and more spectator pens and no access to the stages other than that. That will be these peoples' legacy

[EstWRC]

Nice to see equal times finally

[Tauri_J]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231027/02e08b82da887a7d43863f949cf38492.jpg

He has to try something

[becher]

The marshalls don't do anything...

Its nice when you know what your doing and trying to access a nice spot but some people are standing at the edge of the road on the outside. The no go signs are ignored everywhere so far.

[becher]

When there is a long delay you need to send a safety car in to prevent people walking on the stage.

By the way I just checked the weather and it seems that the rain shall be mostly over and even the sun may appear from time to time. It will be drying which might bring some advantage to the later runners. We'll see.

Yes by now some placed are probably starting to dry.

[EstWRC]

Tänak just nowhere today

[Kras]

I'm pretty sure that place was marked as a restricted area. The problem is that small percentage of people don't give a shit about anything. Safety, logic, self preservation. Nothing. And when something bad happens it's of course not their fault but of the others.

And it's not only about ralying it's general ignorance and lack of respect. I do a lot of hiking and I meet people absolutely inadequately clothed in the mountains having completely wrong shoes etc. Then other people need to risk to get them down when the weather gets bad or they twist their ankle.

There is a stereotype in Croatia of Czech tourists getting lost on the mountain in their flip-flops :D

[Mirek]

The stage is drier but the average speed is approximately 2 km/h lower than in the first run due to the mud.

[EstWRC]

The things I see at the moment from onboard where people are I would cancel the rally.

Just ridiculous

[Mirek]

There is a stereotype in Croatia of Czech tourists getting lost on the mountain in their flip-flops :D

I know, not only in Croatia...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tänak just nowhere today

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9bi-wbXEAA5Unk?format=jpg&name=medium

[denkimi]

That's why I also stated that off-limits areas need to be overseen by marshals. I didn't spot any in the video.
i have seen many marshals who have absolutely no idea where it is safe to stand and where not. not to be offensive, but the people who volunteer to be a marshal are usually not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

but then again, relying on the common sense of the spectators also doesn't really work since a lot of them are also idiots.

[becher]

The things I see at the moment from onboard where people are I would cancel the rally.

Just ridiculous
Not much better in person.

[er88]

The things I see at the moment from onboard where people are I would cancel the rally.

Just ridiculous

It's just a warm up for Rally Poland next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The things I see at the moment from onboard where people are I would cancel the rally.

Just ridiculous

Maybe the drivers should stop like some did in the Group B days.

[Rallyper]

Now SS6 is interrupted.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Stage stopped !

[meh]

The things I see at the moment from onboard where people are I would cancel the rally.

Just ridiculous

they listened you. stage interrupted

[seb_sh]

Even if there are marshalls there if a group of idiots decide to do stupid things the marshalls can't force them... The results is what we see right now, cancelled stages.

[Tauri_J]

It's just a warm up for Rally Poland next year.

Oh god, those guys are hard to control

[EstWRC]

they listened you. stage interrupted

Right decision

[Whinlatter]

The Facebook link to Lappi's crash seems to have been taken down. The problem for most events is they simply don't have enough marshals to cover the whole stage, but what happened to the talk of stopping stages when it was obvious from the live in-car that there were dickheads standing is stupid dangerous places?

[rp]

They are just not able to handle these situations! There should be marshalls and polices in every place and of course it´s not possible, so not a right place for the WRC event.

[jonkka]

The problem for most events is they simply don't have enough marshals to cover the whole stage

Then such events aren't ready to World Championship level. Only the best of the best should be there, with proper and abundant organisation that meets the highest possible standards.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Too many rally fans, and some casuals who dont behave well, was a worry memtioned on the Dirtfish preview podcast.

[MartinH3000]

There is also far too many idiots at rallies that just simply ignore marshalls instructions.

[Walach]

Then such events aren't ready to World Championship level. Only the best of the best should be there, with proper and abundant organisation that meets the highest possible standards.

So no Rally Finland aswell, I guess?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ss5-canceled-due-to-safety-concerns/

[jonkka]

So no Rally Finland aswell, I guess?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ss5-canceled-due-to-safety-concerns/

Correct, out with such low quality turd.

[ToKu]

Then such events aren't ready to World Championship level. Only the best of the best should be there, with proper and abundant organisation that meets the highest possible standards.

Unfortunately proper and abundant organisation is not enough, even if it meets highest possible standards. It is not even the most important factor. Rallies are given , only if it's accompanied with thickness of organisers wallet that meets highest possible standards.

Or... maybe just check their wallets, and organisation will surely follow.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231027/0393d2793446cea3cd6a79dc42fd0d57.jpg

[er88]

Gone are the days of McRae and Sainz being allowed to fight for the acropolis win in just their tshirts :D

[Mirek]

That the number of marshalls today is inadequate to the number of spectators is quite clear. At this moment there is no other crowd control option left than trying to enforce self control via cancelation of the stage. Therefore I consider the cancelation to be a correct decision.

Anyway of all international events I did in my life there were people in stupid places in all of them and to be absolutely honest when I was younger I was sometimes in stupid places too. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...

[jonkka]

Rallies are given , only if it's accompanied with thickness of organisers wallet that meets highest possible standards.

Or... maybe just check their wallets, and organisation will surely follow.

Throw in the politics and sadly it is so. And result is what we are witnessing right now.

[EstWRC]

The next one is delayed?

[Tauri_J]

Might cancel it as well

[mousti]

The next one is delayed?Probably waiting a bit to close time gaps between some competitors

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[Mirek]

15:41 new start

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SS7 will start at 15:41 due to cancellation of the previous stage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Finally ! The Heli is up !

[Portimao]

Another videw. The fans were very lucky...
https://www.facebook.com/motorsportcom.polska/videos/1476511529557448/

Video dead. Reup anyone?

[JAM]

By today standards everything is dangerous in rallying, everything is forbiden.
The spectatores are all crazy (the ones on stages, because at home in front of a screen all are conscencious...)

And at the end all of you still want spectators at stages?!?!?!

Rallying is condemned because people don't undesrtand that is impossible to have stages 99% secures like circuits.

[becher]

Video dead. Reup anyone?
I'm curious as well

[TypeR]

I'm curious as well

This?
https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1717868878871531905

[Mirek]

So far I haven't seen a single person standing in a bad place on SS7. Let's hope it continues smoothly.

[jonkka]

This?
https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1717868878871531905

Yeah, that's the one.

[Mirek]

Some sections are dry already.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kalle 25s slower than this morning.

[becher]

This?
https://x.com/paddocknews/status/1717868878871531905
Ohhh thanks!

[EstWRC]

Tänak should have used softs already now

[becher]

Yep raining again on ss8

[Mirek]

According to Becks the stewards refused to give Gus back any time for him being slowed by spectators at Mikkelsen's accident.

[Mirek]

Linnamäe crashed.

[Tauri_J]

This rally shows how bad Loubet is.

[Tauri_J]

Linnamäe crashed.

As usual, he cant keep it on the road

[meh]

This rally shows how bad Loubet is.

Wihtout penalty fighting with Sunien... and Munster.

[ouvreur]

Some pace from Fourmaux.

Promising start for the updated Fiesta Rally2!

[Mirek]

Linnamäe in finish, lost 3,5 minutes.

[Eli]

I saw Lindholm is leading WRC2 and yet we haven’t seen him once since the start of the rally.

[meh]

To put some more heat - if Rally.tv do not behave like you expect, then it's just criticism but when a driver says the car is not working like expected and would like to get better one, it's moaning? :)

[Mirek]

To put some more heat - if Rally.tv do not behave like you expect, then it's just criticism but when a driver says the car is not working like expected and would like to get better one, it's moaning? :)

Does Tänak pay for his MSport drive? We do pay for RallyTV.

[Eli]

Does anyone here know if the next stage is delayed?

[Mirek]

Someone wrote on ewrc that Neuville slightly hit a house in Drážov village on SS7.

[Mirek]

Does anyone here know if the next stage is delayed?

It should have at least the same delay normally. That was 17 minutes on SS7.

[Eli]

It should have at least the same delay normally. That was 17 minutes on SS7.

That's why I asked, because no one bothered to mention it on WRC+ (rallytv whatever).

[Jarek Z]

This rally shows how bad Loubet is.

Yes. After 5 years of experience in WRC he is on the same pace as Munster, who drives such car for the second time in his life :)

[Mirek]

Someone managed to crash on a canceled stage.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/80244_fb_img_1698417943009.jpg

[Mirek]

Raining on SS8...

Tänak took the two softs but didn't use them on the only stage where it made sense.

[dupanton]

Someone managed to crash on a canceled stage.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/80244_fb_img_1698417943009.jpg

I think the comment is wrong. On SS5 he already has a "SR-time" of 10min behind fastest in class.

[Mirek]

4,4 km/h slower than first run. That's a lot.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame Ogier lost the chance of the win so early on. He may have been the only one who could challenge Rovanpera.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good job by Neuville considering he's on too hard a setup for these roads.

[TypeR]

Massive time from Neuville.. 1.1 faster than Rovanperä and 11.1 faster than Evans

[EstWRC]

Amazing stage by Thierry and great day overall for him

Terrible day for Tänak and Ogier, IMO one of the worst in both drivers careers

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak broke the gear lever ?!

[Mirek]

Tänak tore off the gear lever on this stage.

Loubet changed wheel.

[Eli]

Tanak broke the gear lever ?!

5-7 kms before the end of the stage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

5-7 kms before the end of the stage.

Watching it back he was still changing gears normally through to the end. Must've just been the top bit that came off.

[Tauri_J]

Looks like Loubet crashed

[TypeR]

If first two retard videos were not close enough..

Then this is top-class as.hole.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0a19kesi6UpTAJ5PCyLjfB2C 3TZepbjE5kpUsH5qeKQMePkbUD5C5tbXG8cc3TPhql&id=1642046644


I hope it works.

[ToKu]

If first two retard videos were not close enough..

Then this is top-class as.hole.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0a19kesi6UpTAJ5PCyLjfB2C 3TZepbjE5kpUsH5qeKQMePkbUD5C5tbXG8cc3TPhql&id=1642046644


I hope it works.

Wow, film that was made by the guy who stood still. Suppose not caurage, but lack of proper observation. Vision limited to one that phone screen can offer.

[becher]

To put some more heat - if Rally.tv do not behave like you expect, then it's just criticism but when a driver says the car is not working like expected and would like to get better one, it's moaning? :)
There were/are countless drivers in all categories that criticized their team here and there but with Tanäk it is basically happening every second rally since 2019. On more than one occasion since then he didn't exactly express his mind in a gentlemanly way. So go figure.

[meh]

There were/are countless drivers in all categories that criticized their team here and there but with Tanäk it is basically happening every second rally since 2019. On more than one occasion since then he didn't exactly express his mind in a gentlemanly way. So go figure.

You can watch rally as entertainment the way it delivers. To whining about someone whining... is just pure irony in my opinion. But everyone can enjoy themselves like they want, so keep going :) Some (don't) like Tänak, some Neuville, some Ogier etc.

They are not there for being likable for you or for me, they are there to do their job. As we all watching it, there must be some catchy entertainment.

[denkimi]

Shame Ogier lost the chance of the win so early on. He may have been the only one who could challenge Rovanpera.
Not with his road position.

[becher]

You can watch rally as entertainment the way it delivers. To whining about someone whining... is just pure irony in my opinion. But everyone can enjoy themselves like they want, so keep going :) Some (don't) like Tänak, some Neuville, some Ogier etc.

They are not there for being likable for you or for me, they are there to do their job. As we all watching it, there must be some catchy entertainment.

Ah criticizem is whining. I disagree but let's leave it at that no need to discuss everything to no end.

[Jakem]

There were/are countless drivers in all categories that criticized their team here and there but with Tanäk it is basically happening every second rally since 2019. On more than one occasion since then he didn't exactly express his mind in a gentlemanly way. So go figure.

There were/are countless forum members who are criticizing wrc driver(Tanak) but with becher it is basically happening every second rally:D You still haven’t noticed that Tanak is a no filter guy and says what he thinks, take it or put your fingers in your ears, when he gives stage end interviews and save yourself ;)

[dimviii]

Ogier:
,,I can't wait when Michelin is back''

dimviii cant wait for his comment at first puncture with michelins.

[Eli]

dimviii cant wait for his comment at first puncture with michelins.

Is it even confirmed we'll have Michelin in 2025? Also, wouldn't Ogier retire after next year?

[becher]

dimviii cant wait for his comment at first puncture with michelins.
Haha me neither.

[becher]

There were/are countless forum members who are criticizing wrc driver(Tanak) but with becher it is basically happening every second rally:D You still haven’t noticed that Tanak is a no filter guy and says what he thinks, take it or put your fingers in your ears, when he gives stage end interviews and save yourself ;)
Killer argument for sure eh.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not with his road position.

But without the puncture Ogier would still be fighting and not giving up already. Plus theres still a long way to go & he would've had a better road position on Saturday & Sunday.

[mousti]

Loubet doing it again

https://www.facebook.com/100064098217882/posts/pfbid0NMuUmnBaNYEz8yd6hGoWKtER8BKGTfGm4ikvH6PiaKNU wgFxfNZ2kLLsXtVNx2Agl/

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Nice vid

https://youtu.be/2z-m1VwUfVQ?si=X7M-3o1gU1Kiifvz

[COD]

dimviii cant wait for his comment at first puncture with michelins.

Hitting your wheel with a piece missing. No tyre could hold air in it anymore ��

[KKS]

Lappi retire

[Rallyper]

Is it even confirmed we'll have Michelin in 2025? Also, wouldn't Ogier retire after next year?

If Michelin comes back ogier will also...

[TypeR]

If Michelin comes back ogier will also...
Pirellis may break or not..
I don't understand and probably never will.. why Ogier(while being best in the bestestest car) decide to do half seasons after all.
He would have easily fought for the WDC's in 22 and 23.

[denkimi]

But without the puncture Ogier would still be fighting and not giving up already. Plus theres still a long way to go & he would've had a better road position on Saturday & Sunday.no he wouldn't. He lost 40 seconds by his puncture and he's 2 minutes 40s behind.

He should have been 3th, right behind Neuville.

[EstWRC]

lol

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy6xTykqJb2/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[janneppi]

Pirellis may break or not..
I don't understand and probably never will.. why Ogier(while being best in the bestestest car) decide to do half seasons after all.
He would have easily fought for the WDC's in 22 and 23.Maybe after 8wdc's and pushing 40 having 200+ travel days per year vs spending time with the family things take different priorities.

Sent from my CPH2399 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/b727d91e91bd8c86ce5d37fce3eb8bdb.jpg

[Mirek]

According to the safety car crew the stage is pretty muddy.

[Tauri_J]

Pirellis may break or not..
I don't understand and probably never will.. why Ogier(while being best in the bestestest car) decide to do half seasons after all.
He would have easily fought for the WDC's in 22 and 23.

If you are a family man you Will understand.

[Tauri_J]

Gaps are so big that it gives me already sunday feelings.

[EstWRC]

Gaps are so big that it gives me already sunday feelings.

I had it already yesterday

Shame it wasn’t dry. At least the first day

[meh]

Seems that Evans made nice push on this one.

Today leaders can not extend the gaps anymore due the road position advantage, in this term is should be a bit more equal.

[Mirek]

Actually 2-3, 5-6-7 and WRC2 all is pretty close, so it shall still be interesting but I somehow felt the first morning stage a bit lazy as well...

[Mirek]

This stage looks to be a lot more interesting for me than the first one.

Tänak reportedly with one soft tyre on the car. Just why one?

[EstWRC]

This stage looks to be a lot more interesting for me than the first one.

Tänak reportedly with one soft tyre on the car. Just why one?

I guess puncture for one rain tire

[EstWRC]

The top3 is on another level compared to the rest

[Mirek]

I guess puncture for one rain tire

He just confirmed that you were right.

[Mirek]

Rovanperä off the road but he managed to get back loosing just a few seconds.

[EstWRC]

Rovanperä off the road but he managed to get back loosing just a few seconds.

He was so lucky AGAIN that there was escape road. Otherwise it would have been over

[meh]

Rovanperä off the road but he managed to get back loosing just a few seconds.

this few here is at least 15sec for this off. 21sec in total at split 3

[EstWRC]

Now things are interesting again!

Go Thierry!

[meh]

Fourmaux put some good time in place and now just 8.2 sec from the RC2 lead. Things are interesting there as well, altough by trends Fourmaux just goes his own way if nothing extra happens.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

no he wouldn't. He lost 40 seconds by his puncture and he's 2 minutes 40s behind.

He should have been 3th, right behind Neuville.

In that case why did Ogier even enter the rally ? He must've known his road position and the likelihood of wet and muddy conditions he'd face on day 1.

And now, if he was right behind Neuville, he'd be well in the fight.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans off !!!

[Mirek]

Evans crashed.

[meh]

Evans off !!!

killed someones building

https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1718199062011195851

[EstWRC]

Not a bad stage from Tänak without hybrid and one soft

[Eli]

So congrats to Rovanperä I guess, our double world champion.

[meh]

Now if Neuville gets Rovanperä and Rovanperä goes to safe-mode for championship, then we may have quite boring 1.5 days ahead for rally1.

Rovanperä 16sec down on 1st split...

edit: confirmed by Rovanperä that he went to safe mode.

[jonkka]

So congrats to Rovanperä I guess, our double world champion.

Yeah - though I wonder why wrc.com live update says "is champion provided he (Kalle) can make it through"? Kalle has 31 point lead over Evans and maximum haul from single event is just 30 points so Kalle's title does not hinge on him scoring any more points at all.

[elmerim]

Yeah - though I wonder why wrc.com live update says "is champion provided he (Kalle) can make it through"? Kalle has 31 point lead over Evans and maximum haul from single event is just 30 points so Kalle's title does not hinge on him scoring any more points at all.

But Evans could still score PS points here.

[EstWRC]

So congrats to Rovanperä I guess, our double world champion.

Well it was basically sure anyway

And what a stupid mistake by Evans I have to say

[jonkka]

But Evans could still score PS points here.

Ah, of course.

[Mirek]

Yeah - though I wonder why wrc.com live update says "is champion provided he (Kalle) can make it through"? Kalle has 31 point lead over Evans and maximum haul from single event is just 30 points so Kalle's title does not hinge on him scoring any more points at all.

Evans can restart tomorrow and take some PS points. If Kalle retires Evans can in theory can still get more points in what is left of the season.

EDIT: I'm slow :)

[Eli]

But Evans could still score PS points here.

So could Kalle, as long as he doesn’t bin it tomorrow.

[jonkka]

Evans can restart tomorrow and take some PS points. If Kalle retires Evans can in theory can still get more points in what is left of the season.

EDIT: I'm slow :)

No, I was slow (in the head) for not thinking of that possibility, although admittedly so very slim that it's practically non-existent.

[Eli]

Well it was basically sure anyway

And what a stupid mistake by Evans I have to say

True but now it’s 99.9% done.

[Mirek]

Someone asked for any driver saying he actually had fun on the stage. Fourmaux just said that :)

[becher]

I'm a bit disappointed in Rovanperä immediately surrendering the lead now.

[meh]

Spin with lucky/master escape for Mikkelsen.

[Mirek]

Mikkelsen spun into a ditch but managed to get back on the road.

[EstWRC]

Dominating Mikkelsen doesn’t seem to like this rally

[becher]

So any footage on the internet from the incidents? Couldn't find anything so far.

[EstWRC]

So any footage on the internet from the incidents? Couldn't find anything so far.

Evans

https://x.com/undercutbox/status/1718208388868235552?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[becher]

Evans

https://x.com/undercutbox/status/1718208388868235552?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Thanks!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Incredible, with all the tricky places and nasty conditions so far on this rally, that Evans should go off on such an innocuous corner and end his title chances.

I honestly cant see him ever seriously challenging again.

[486]

Incredible, with all the tricky places and nasty conditions so far on this rally, that Evans should go off on such an innocuous corner and end his title chances.

I honestly cant see him ever seriously challenging again.

Might be because it was an innocuous corner he was trying to gain time there........ More often than none, competing on such tarmac under those conditions is like driving on the edge of a blade...

[meh]

Good thing is/was that Evans was giving a fight. Also, seems that he knows his "secure" pace well and with this he is able to collect many points over the season, but so far it has not been enough to be a champion.

[Mirek]

Might be because it was an innocuous corner he was trying to gain time there........ More often than none, competing on such tarmac under those conditions is like driving on the edge of a blade...

Driving on asphalt is sometimes a bit binary. You either have the grip or not and sometimes there is nothing in between.

[ictus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIHSZGK4k6s
Kalle's mistake

[Tauri_J]

Incredible, with all the tricky places and nasty conditions so far on this rally, that Evans should go off on such an innocuous corner and end his title chances.

I honestly cant see him ever seriously challenging again.

Since Ogier is now going part time, theres only one guy who can compete for championship with Kalle. Its Ott Tänak. Evans and Neuville still cant keep it on the road. Others have no speed and are even more prone to offroad excursions. Do you remember when was the last time Tänak’s had an off? I sure cant

[Mirek]

Since Ogier is now going part time, theres only one guy Who can compete for championship with Kalle. Its Ott Tänak. Evans and Neuville still cant keep it on the road. Others have no speed and are even more probe to offroad excursions. Do you remember when Tänak’s had an off? I cant

Monte 2022. Almost two years ago.

[seb_sh]

I've been away this morning and only now caught up. I have to say, even if I usually don't like the idea that some drivers are lucky, if I compare the two incidents they seem similar, both went a bit too fast and suddenly had no grip. The results are completely different and I'm not sure if it's corect to blame Evans so harshly. If there was a tree or barrier where Rovanpera went off the situation would be totally different. So from my side I think luck played some part today.

Anyway looks like the rally is over in Rally1, there are some things to follow in WRC2 at least.

[manthey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIHSZGK4k6s
Kalle's mistake

Evans found a barn, kalle was out without any obstacle in a forest...

[486]

Evans found a barn, kalle was out without any obstacle in a forest...

...and Breen (RIP) found a.... No reason to blame any driver on the odds of the grip... imho

[Mirek]

Anyway looks like the rally is over in Rally1, there are some things to follow in WRC2 at least.

The conditions are tricky. I wouldn's bet that nothing else happens till the end.

[Mirek]

Sun is shining on SS12.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/8d91cbaf261aa961b467e8d92e624193.jpg

[Mirek]

Small off for Munster.

[meh]

Is Ogier smelling podioum?

[Mirek]

Katsuta destroyed Suninen in this one and got back ahead of him.

[EstWRC]

Tänak with Katsuta pace but he has no rush either at the moment

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier showing what might have been.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Since Ogier is now going part time, theres only one guy who can compete for championship with Kalle. Its Ott Tänak. Evans and Neuville still cant keep it on the road. Others have no speed and are even more prone to offroad excursions. Do you remember when was the last time Tänak’s had an off? I sure cant

Agreed. Tanak in a fast reliable car is probably the only one who can challenge Rovanpera over a season.

[meh]

By pure speed, there is clear top4. Or it is actually pure dominance by Rovanperä, as most of gravel rallies he has huge disadvantage to collect stage wins from first days due to road cleaning.

Ogier has done less rallies, but when he does, he usually has road position advantage.

Stage wins this season:
* 67 Rovanperä
* 32 Ogier
* 31 Neuville
* 29 Tänak

And then comes others:
* 16 Evans (10 of 16 from Rally Finland when Rovanperä, Tänak and Lappi were out already)
* 13 Lappi
* 9 Katsuta
* 6 Sordo
* 1 Suninen
* 1 Loubet

So my point is - like I pointed out previously, Evans is collecting points with "not that risky" driving. Without collecting stage wins that much. Others (Tänak, Neuville, Ogier) could fight with Rovanperä.

Also I don't think Neuville has lost all his opportunities to be a champion, there is still chance.

[EstWRC]

Tänak having more stage wins than Evans and almost equal with Neuville is surprising

[focus206]

So my point is - like I pointed out previously, Evans is collecting points with "not that risky" driving. Without collecting stage wins that much. Others (Tänak, Neuville, Ogier) could fight with Rovanperä.

Also I don't think Neuville has lost all his opportunities to be a champion, there is still chance.

Evans has the "not that risky" driving, but every time he has had the chance to lead the championship or grab the title, he crashed out.
So far this year Neuville made 1 mistake that resulted in DNF (Croatia), the same as Kalle (Finland) and less than Evans (Portugal, CER).
The big difference is that Kalle and Evans had 0 serious mechanical problems for the whole year, as they drive a Toyota. If Hyundai was as reliable/robust as Toyota, Neuville would still be in the fight right now, but he's not.
I still think Kalle would take the title as he's the best driver in the best car, but the point is that even if Hyundai will have Ott next year, they won't be able to get the title if propshafts, suspensions, turbo have problems while Toyota is always fine.

[denkimi]

Ogier showing what might have been.
it was so weird to see him just give up after losing just 40 seconds at the very beginning. he might have been close to rovanpera at this point.

[meh]

... they won't be able to get the title if propshafts, suspensions, turbo have problems while Toyota is always fine.

Let's start from simple things like wipers and window-heaters (the famous "the quality is amazing" stuff)

[denkimi]

Evans has the "not that risky" driving, but every time he has had the chance to lead the championship or grab the title, he crashed out.
So far this year Neuville made 1 mistake that resulted in DNF (Croatia), the same as Kalle (Finland) and less than Evans (Portugal, CER).
The big difference is that Kalle and Evans had 0 serious mechanical problems for the whole year, as they drive a Toyota. If Hyundai was as reliable/robust as Toyota, Neuville would still be in the fight right now, but he's not.
I still think Kalle would take the title as he's the best driver in the best car, but the point is that even if Hyundai will have Ott next year, they won't be able to get the title if propshafts, suspensions, turbo have problems while Toyota is always fine.
indeed. just look at neuville's stats this year. without technical issues he would have been right up there fighting with rovanpera.

[CeskyOndra]

Evans has the "not that risky" driving, but every time he has had the chance to lead the championship or grab the title, he crashed out.
So far this year Neuville made 1 mistake that resulted in DNF (Croatia), the same as Kalle (Finland) and less than Evans (Portugal, CER).
The big difference is that Kalle and Evans had 0 serious mechanical problems for the whole year, as they drive a Toyota. If Hyundai was as reliable/robust as Toyota, Neuville would still be in the fight right now, but he's not.
I still think Kalle would take the title as he's the best driver in the best car, but the point is that even if Hyundai will have Ott next year, they won't be able to get the title if propshafts, suspensions, turbo have problems while Toyota is always fine.

Can't disaagre. Neuville's problems this year: Portugal Turbo failure, Kenya suspension (yes, still DSQ), Greece suspension.. Without this, he would have 40 points more.. Tanak is the same story ofc

[Mirek]

These are the most spectacular conditions for spectating an asphalt rally :)

[Mirek]

20 seconds slower than in the first run on complete wet...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak looks totally on it here.

[meh]

SS13 Neuville vs Tänak
Split 1 - Neuville 0.1 sec faster
Split 2 - Tänak 0.1 sec faster
Split 3 - level
Split 4 - level
...

and split 5 Neuville is losing 2.7 to Tänak and at the end Ogier wins the stage with 0.1 sec :)

[EstWRC]

Great stage from Ott. He said he finally tried a bit more

[dimviii]

something happened to Neuville at 5th split.

[Mirek]

Great stage from Ott. He said he finally tried a bit more

You could see from the camera mounted behind the crew that he was really pushing.

[EstWRC]

something happened to Neuville at 5th split.

The one rain tire overheated is my guess

[seb_sh]

By pure speed, there is clear top4. Or it is actually pure dominance by Rovanperä, as most of gravel rallies he has huge disadvantage to collect stage wins from first days due to road cleaning.

Ogier has done less rallies, but when he does, he usually has road position advantage.

Stage wins this season:
* 67 Rovanperä
* 32 Ogier
* 31 Neuville
* 29 Tänak

And then comes others:
* 16 Evans (10 of 16 from Rally Finland when Rovanperä, Tänak and Lappi were out already)
* 13 Lappi
* 9 Katsuta
* 6 Sordo
* 1 Suninen
* 1 Loubet

So my point is - like I pointed out previously, Evans is collecting points with "not that risky" driving. Without collecting stage wins that much. Others (Tänak, Neuville, Ogier) could fight with Rovanperä.

Also I don't think Neuville has lost all his opportunities to be a champion, there is still chance.

What I would add about Evans is that most of his wins came in some unusual conditions:
2017 GB - DMack special tyres which best suited the conditions (but as Loeb said on all live at the time: yes he has good tired but he still has to use them and drive the car)
2020 Sweden - Strange winter rally with no snow and much shortened route (he adapted best to the conditions)
2020 Turkey - puncture lottery
2021 Portugal - rally of attrition
2023 Finland - the other contenders made mistakes or had tech issues

There were a couple which are more straightforward:
2021 Finland - was actually fast if i remember correctly
2023 Croatia - I suppose he benefitted from others punctures and setup problems but I would say he was pretty fast

Otherwise he spends a lot of time between 5th and 2nd, and actually has a lot of 2nd places: 14

I suppose you can say he lacks some speed but is fast enough to put himself in the position to take advantage of others mistakes and he seems to be able to bring it home when he gets a chance. If I was a team manager I would definitely want him in my team, next to one of the fast guys. As for winning a championship, it's more of a long shot, I would not say impossible but I can imagine he would need an unusual whole season, with issues for others and two other contenders taking points from eachother, going off etc.

[Mirek]

Fourmaux now in the lead of RC2. He lost even more time than Ogier yesterday on the first stage (1 minute against the top RC2).

[seb_sh]

Munster is again showing some decent pace in only his seconds rally. This is one of the reasons why I would like to have more cars to give more drivers chances to show what they can do at this level.

[Mirek]

Small off for Loubet on the mud.

[seb_sh]

very very dirty, there may be mistakes on this one

[TypeR]

Munster is again showing some decent pace in only his seconds rally. This is one of the reasons why I would like to have more cars to give more drivers chances to show what they can do at this level.
and what's more interesting is that eith rally2 he is way off the top(speed wise), but rally1 speed is quite good first rallies.
I'm sure Wilson sells the idea/plan to Serderidis for 2024 :D

[Mirek]

and what's more interesting is that eith rally2 he is way off the top(speed wise), but rally1 speed is quite good first rallies.
I'm sure Wilson sells the idea/plan to Serderidis for 2024 :D

It's nowhere written that he will improve his pace. There were countless drivers who came to the WRC, quickly reached certain sub-top pace but never managed to improve it.

[Mirek]

Helishots in the darkness is something new I think.

[seb_sh]

Helishots in the darkness is something new I think.

i think so, it looks really cool!

[meh]

Tänak is losing time, went to ditch (probably) in the same place like Loubet.

from state-end interview: it was some technical stuff which did not work as expected but he used it by instinct in slippy moment, locked wheels and slid off

[EstWRC]

#8
flag
Tänak Ott
Järveoja Martin
"Previous stage we lost hydraulic pressure, and first hairpin I reverse and next place where it was slippy I had stupid instinct to pull the handbrake and it locked the front wheels."

[Mirek]

from state-end interview: it was some technical stuff which did not work as expected but he used it by instinct in slippy moment, locked wheels and slid off

Lost hydraulic pressure which means that when you use handbrake you have to use also clutch (the rear axle disconnetion doesn't work). Otherwise you block all wheels and not only the rear ones. That's what he did. It's like in the good old Gr. B times :)

[Dontcut]

i think so, it looks really cool!
These are FPV drone shots.
Tänak was very humble with interview. After finish he said lot of bad words and called car a "toilet".

[meh]

Haha, "cruising" Rovanperä is fastest.

[Mirek]

These are FPV drone shots.
Tänak was very humble with interview. After finish he said lot of bad words and called car a "toilet".

There was a clearly audible sound of the helicopter. They use the drone at the junction but not for chasing cars over long distances.

[Dontcut]

There was a clearly audible sound of the helicopter. They use the drone at the junction but not for chasing cars over long distances.

Sorry, yes there was heli as well. These slowmo shots were drone.

[dupanton]

Lost hydraulic pressure which means that when you use handbrake you have to use also clutch (the rear axle disconnetion doesn't work). Otherwise you block all wheels and not only the rear ones. That's what he did. It's like in the goold old Gr. B times :)

Are you available to commentate on rally TV? Their commentators can't go any further than saying how nice the drivers are and what flags there are on the stage...

[seb_sh]

Heh most people saying they are happy to be at the finish and how hard this stage was and then Neuville says it was his favourite stage :D

[Mirek]

Gryazin and Marczyk stopped. Both continue with time loss.

[becher]

Heh most people saying they are happy to be at the finish and how hard this stage was and then Neuville says it was his favourite stage :D

He's seems to be quite fast in the dark also in the past.

[Mirek]

He's seems to be quite fast in the dark also in the past.

And he's from Belgium. If someone knows how to drive with asphalt tyres on mud it must be Belgians.

[bomber21]

Passau as rally HQ is a joke. We are stuck in the car for THREE hours now.

[trykmann]

Can't disaagre. Neuville's problems this year: Portugal Turbo failure, Kenya suspension (yes, still DSQ), Greece suspension.. Without this, he would have 40 points more.. Tanak is the same story ofcI think the Greece suspension issue is abit driver related also. Other drivers were able to avoid the issue. This is the difference between champions ans non-champions.

Obviously it was an unlucky situation and maybe the Toyota would have survived. Still it wasn't just a pure technical problem.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Even the lucky escapes often aren't just a thing of luck. Some drivers simply know better than others where to risk to go off.

[Katvala]

Are you available to commentate on rally TV? Their commentators can't go any further than saying how nice the drivers are and what flags there are on the stage...It would be great to have coverage coming from a third party instead. Someone who is allowed to criticise, that aren't directly employed by WRC. When drivers in an interview say something that might be somewhat controversial, they pretend they didn't hear (cause they can't talk about it). It's all too PR friendly. At least when they have guest commentators, they aren't as drilled in the PR rules for what to say and they deviate a bit.

But also I'd like to have commentators that are not solely focused on guiding new watchers through the coverage. It gets some annoying to hear the same basic explanations for everything 10 times a rally. I'd like more technical talk, more talk about stats, former performances, and of course less oral PR curfew (in lack of better words)

As for the rally, I think this is a good one. I enjoyed watching yesterday, and today I followed all stages through until Evans' accident, and from that time it became Sunday feelings again, but that's not the fault of the rally!

Sent from my M2012K11G using Tapatalk

[focus206]

I think the Greece suspension issue is abit driver related also. Other drivers were able to avoid the issue. This is the difference between champions ans non-champions.

Obviously it was an unlucky situation and maybe the Toyota would have survived. Still it wasn't just a pure technical problem.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

Ogier was right before Neuville and he damaged the suspension as well at the same exact point, saying it was impossible to avoid. Of course, he was driving a Toyota, so he survived. And the little bump/ditch in the middle of the road probably got deeper the more cars passed, with Ogier and Neuville being the last two of the Rally1. So the difference between the 8 times world champion and the no times world champion was the car they were driving, no magic driving instict that allowed Ogier to avoid problems.

[CeskyOndra]

Atmosphere in service park especially while "meet the crews" action was incredible, everyone was cheering for Neuville and for all the drivers when they arrived to service

[becher]

So did anyone have to show their tickets stageside? We did four stages yesterday and didn't have to show them once.

[Duvel]

Atmosphere in service park especially while "meet the crews" action was incredible, everyone was cheering for Neuville and for all the drivers when they arrived to service

Good to hear that! Thats what rally should be like!

[CeskyOndra]

So did anyone have to show their tickets stageside? We did four stages yesterday and didn't have to show them once.

Only in FZ, service was free

[becher]

Only in FZ, service was free
I thought to just watch from a field one still had to get a day ticket/rallypass. Did I misunderstand?

[Rally Hokkaido]

seb_sh Great analysis. I would just add that on the 'Elfyn Evans' thread we remarked how while he does adapt to conditions well, his crashes, like in this rally, seem to occur when stage conditions are not so tricky or his position is not under actual threat. However, in two of the three occasions I can recall (Monza, Monte-Carlo, here) the mental pressure on him to not make a mistake was high. And I think that may cause his rare 'brain fade' mistakes.

[bomber21]

So did anyone have to show their tickets stageside? We did four stages yesterday and didn't have to show them once.
I feel stupid I paid 99 euros for a useless pass that led me into small spectator zones with no view to the cars while all other people could go anywhere they want and find food spots.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231029/d5a56b62f300a18ac14581664868159b.jpg

[Mirek]

So far in the footage there were no places where big muddy cuts could be expected. It's very fast stage (which I like) but imho easier than those from previous two days.

Lindholm reported to be stuck on the road section trying to repair something, maybe alternator.

[meh]

WRC2 - (from ALL-live) Puuf, Lindholm retired. Gives Greensmith one extra position (and points) for title-fight with Mikkelsen.

[mousti]

Gutted for Lindholm..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Really liking this rally, the stages are so nice. The only downside was the situation with public on Friday, yesterday and at the moment today the situation is much better

[jonkka]

Really liking this rally, the stages are so nice. The only downside was the situation with public on Friday, yesterday and at the moment today the situation is much better

Each day is run progressively in a different country.

[Mirek]

Each day is run progressively in a different country.

Not really. Yesterday it was mixed both in Austria and Germany.

For sure there are lessons to be learned and I hope they will.

[jonkka]

Not really. Yesterday it was mixed both in Austria and Germany.

I didn't want to say out loud that the first, the most problematic day was held in Czechia. :D

[Mirek]

I didn't want to say out loud that the first, the most problematic day was held in Czechia. :D

In terms of the spectator control it's true, so it's fine to say it. Yesterday people complained about the opposite - that even in some spectator arenas they had to stay so far from the road that they could barely see it :) Plus we have massive traffic jams, allocated road section times. There is a lot to work on for the next year.

[EstWRC]

lol

https://x.com/mkiviaho/status/1718535868363751822?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[wwbroe]

Serious delay for this stage

[EstWRC]

Seems I spoke too soon for the public……

[Mirek]

9:46 new start

[wwbroe]

Evans started at 9h44

Edit: no he did not

[EstWRC]

lol the guy in front of Evans also frustrated with the situation and Evans laughing about it

[wwbroe]

More delay unfortunally

[Mirek]

9:51 now, let's pray :D

[Mirek]

Loubet was off again. Quite far from the road on the grass.

[Eli]

3 minute gaps between the P1 crews?

[PLuto]

So far in the footage there were no places where big muddy cuts could be expected. It's very fast stage (which I like) but imho easier than those from previous two days.

Lindholm reported to be stuck on the road section trying to repair something, maybe alternator.

I must say I dont like today stages so much. For me they are too fast, too wide and too boring...

[Mirek]

I must say I dont like today stages so much. For me they are too fast, too wide and too boring...

The PS is nice for me. For sure it's easier than the forest stages but for TV it's well selected I think.

Tänak again having issues with the gear lever. Loubet also reported issues with the transmissions.

[EstWRC]

Gear leveler again striking for Tänak

[becher]

Gear leveler again striking for Tänak
Also happened last year in the i20 I think.

[EstWRC]

Also happened last year in the i20 I think.

On rally safari only and the it broke completely

Now the knob wants to come off for second day in a row

[becher]

I feel stupid I paid 99 euros for a useless pass that led me into small spectator zones with no view to the cars while all other people could go anywhere they want and find food spots.

It's a shame. I don't mind supporting a event financially but if we knew we would probably gave split our journey over two days.

[SubaruNorway]

I feel stupid I paid 99 euros for a useless pass that led me into small spectator zones with no view to the cars while all other people could go anywhere they want and find food spots.

Everyone is led to those, if you chose to go there or not you decide yourself.

It's an ok event, haven't watched all the onboards but Friday seemed more interesting.
Croatia has had better stages.

I think putting the spectator areas so far away just makes people go into the more narrow and dangerous parts

[EstWRC]

About updates on some cars

https://x.com/llluis555/status/1718561780312457657?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[becher]

Everyone is led to those, if you chose to go there or not you decide yourself.

It's an ok event, haven't watched all the onboards but Friday seemed more interesting.
Croatia has had better stages.

I think putting the spectator areas so far away just makes people go into the more narrow and dangerous parts

I would agree, next year it's Croatia again for me.

[Mirek]

Second run again slower (slightly) than the first one despite few dirty places on this one.