British & Irish Rally calendars 2023

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Funny they say Cronin was "sadly hampered when they caught another car and couldn't pass them..." but no sight or mention of the Puma.

Mikie Galvin said him and Cronin were stuck behind the Puma of Serderidis for about 5 miles in Grizedale !

Maybe the time loss wasn't enough to lose the rally, but without it who knows if they could've put pressure on Fourmaux to cause a mistake..

[Steve Boyd]

Mikie Galvin said him and Cronin were stuck behind the Puma of Serderidis for about 5 miles in Grizedale !

Maybe the time loss wasn't enough to lose the rally, but without it who knows if they could've put pressure on Fourmaux to cause a mistake..
He'd have needed to be 25 seconds quicker over the other stages to get near Fourmaux even after ignoring the time lost behind Serderidis.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He'd have needed to be 25 seconds quicker over the other stages to get near Fourmaux even after ignoring the time lost behind Serderidis.

But he would've been closer before the final Greystoke stages which Fourmaux knew very well and already had an advantage.

It may not have affected the result here but I'm saying that it easily could've done. And a cynic might say that M-Sport had planned it on their 'home event''.

Why was Serderidis seeded ahead of a 4× BRC Champion ?

[Sal yet again]

Guess that was due to FIA seeding however maybe a "gentlemans" agreement over running order could have been reached although hindsight is a wonderful thing. Think its a bit conspiracy theory to suggest they placed Jourdan ahead of Keith but anything can happen in rallying and it would only have taken the Polo to pick up a puncture and it would have been irrelevant. I'm still doubtful that Adrien will start every round so things should level out anyway regardless of him playing his joker in Cumbria.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

BritishRallyMedia @BritRallyMedia

Entry list for the RAC Rally is due to be published this weekend.

If half the names we’ve heard whispered come true it’s going to be an unbelievable event !

[Sal yet again]

Even though 4 wheel drive cars cant claim the overall title it would be amazing to see Latvala out in his Celica GT4

[Fast Eddie WRC]

West Cork Rally about to resume... Meirion Evans leads after 2 stages.

Live
https://www.youtube.com/live/u2fvVMqzMD8?feature=share

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Josh Moffett leads into Day 2.

The highest Fords are lead by... Mk2 Escorts !

The win goes to Josh but a great day 2 by Barrable put him up to 2nd with bravery and better tyres in the wet. Evans 3rd.

[Sal yet again]

http://files.freethought.website/freethought27/file/unseededentrylist190323.pdf

So the RAC provisional entry list is out and its the TBAs that will be of most interest/speculation in the coming months I guess..

[the sniper]

I'm not a great fan of keeping back names, makes the rest look a bit like also-rans. Don't get me wrong, it'll be great if there are 6 additional big names, but I'll be interesting to see how their reveals are managed. That is of course if these are 'names', as there'll be plenty disappointed if this isn't the case or it's a BRC style PR exercise that can't deliver... Looks good so far anyway!

[AndyRAC]

Well yes, define 'names' - they may be different to what you or I think are names. I'm guessing maybe former WRC drivers who do occasionally drive Historics.....
However, a massively healthy entry, for the highlight of the rallying calendar in the UK.

[HKSjbg]

Adrien Fourmaux will be doing the Jim Clark:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/fourmaux-commits-to-second-british-championship-round/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And so is DF journo Luke Barry !

https://mailchi.mp/63f3a438813d/dirtfish-journalist-to-drive-his-first-ever-rally?e=[UNIQID]

[AndyRAC]

Provisional route for the RAC announced:

http://racrmc.org/roger-albert-clark-rally/route

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SeaconUK Rally Show Ep2 - MW, RNW & Circuit Rally highlights:

https://youtu.be/12MZRrIPIVk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Devine leads J.Moffett at the halfway point of the Circuit of Ireland after a super close battle. A late puncture on SS4 cost Moffett time plus a great stage by Devine. These two are in a class of their own here.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Bit of a fightback by Josh this afternoon but only a few seconds. The COI win goes to Devine.

3 Rounds and 3 different winners - great for the Championship.

[Sal yet again]

Yes certainly good for the championship and just shows how closely matched the drivers are in both the ITRC and National series

[HKSjbg]

Spectator info for the Rallynuts next weekend:

http://rallynutsrally.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/23-RSR-SPECDOWNLOAD.pdf

This year they’re running a Myherin West and East (SS1 and SS2) then combining it (or parts of them) for Myherin Main SS5.

I’m interested in going to Hafren forest for the first time but the official viewing location is again the bottom of Sweet Lamb… I don’t wanna be a cheapskate and try and sneak in elsewhere but it’s one hell of a walk from the A44 to the middle of the forest :D

Does anybody know if generally speaking the other car parks would be manned and spectating at a safe spot is allowed - even though the official information mentions ‘designated spectator areas’ and ‘no-go locations’?

[AndyRAC]

They never have designated spectator locations in the forest part of Hafren, unless it's RallyGB. Without seeing a map of the stage layout, I wouldn't know where to go. I usually watch at the bowl in the morning, and go for a walk in the afternoon, and there are some decent spots.

[HKSjbg]

I’m assuming it won’t be vastly different to the route used for the past few years. But a walk in the afternoon between the first and second loops might be a good idea

[HKSjbg]

30mins highlights for all of this year’s Irish National Rally Championship rounds on RallyTV on youtube:

https://youtube.com/@RallyTVIRL

I’ve got Midland Moto Stages and Circuit of Kerry teed up in my watch later ready for a rainy day :D

[J4MIE]

I’m assuming it won’t be vastly different to the route used for the past few years. But a walk in the afternoon between the first and second loops might be a good idea

I sent you a message, not sure if you read it?

[HKSjbg]

Yeah just spotted it up top!

[HKSjbg]

The Scottish moves to Dalbeattie for this year:

https://preview.mailerlite.io/emails/webview/347823/85157338340657028

[Fast Eddie WRC]

30mins highlights for all of this year’s Irish National Rally Championship rounds on RallyTV on youtube:

https://youtube.com/@RallyTVIRL

I’ve got Midland Moto Stages and Circuit of Kerry teed up in my watch later ready for a rainy day :D

Thanks for this info. It cheered me up slightly on this most difficult of rally days...

[Whinlatter]

On the Rallynuts last year they had a security guard on the forest access road to the Hafren stage start. He was sending people to the car park by the public toilets where there was also a security guard, but more room to park without annoying the locals. I guess the length of walk depends to some extent on the stage route?

[satnav]

I’m assuming it won’t be vastly different to the route used for the past few years. But a walk in the afternoon between the first and second loops might be a good idea

I've just seen your msg, sent you a PM

[HKSjbg]

On the Rallynuts last year they had a security guard on the forest access road to the Hafren stage start. He was sending people to the car park by the public toilets where there was also a security guard, but more room to park without annoying the locals. I guess the length of walk depends to some extent on the stage route?

So is that to say ‘parking here, no thank you. Walk here from Sweet Lamb, by all means, knock yourself out’?

I was starting to think it would be easier to just stay in Sweet Lamb and spend the day finding the best viewing point, rather than worry about being ‘caught’ in the forest :D

Though of course I’m not one of those idiots who wants to do whatever he wants with no regard for if it will cause problems for the rally organisers.

I was hoping to have a wander up to that first hairpin when the cars have come out of Sweet Lamb - SL behind you, hairpin left into Hafren forest proper and Maesnant/Hafren south about a couple km further down the road. I’m gonna check some onboards from last year to see whether it was generally just the marshals and camera crew ‘allowed’ in the forest.

Something tells me all this anxiety over the matter will be overthought in the extreme :laugh:

[AndyRAC]

I'm not sure it's any help, but I remember a late 90s Vauxhall Rally of Wales; and in the programme's spectator information it stated 'no spectators at Hafren - due to birds nesting'; groups of speccies disturbs them, but rally cars flying through full chat don't.
My only issue is there are plenty of walkers paths nearby, including a picnic site not far from the famous Hafren hairpin.....And they don't seem to be restricted during this time of year.

[Whinlatter]

My only issue is there are plenty of walkers paths nearby, including a picnic site not far from the famous Hafren hairpin.....And they don't seem to be restricted during this time of year.
That's the car park I mentioned in my post last night. It wasn't an official car park but (from the security guy I talked to) they seemed ok with people going there as a lesser evil than parking along the narrow roads which were being used as access by the competitors.

@HKSjbg - I had a good old wander in Hafren last year and encountered a handful of other speccies, and none of the marshals or safety cars had any problem with me being there - though obviously I was in safe locations at all times.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jim Clark entry list:

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/2023/jimclark/entries.php?type=u

Dont see Keith Cronin but he may be last minute as usual !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Polo Power for Pearson in BRC 2023

Duns rally driver Garry Peason will make an exciting switch to a Volkswagen Polo GTI R5 for the rest of the British Rally Championship season.

Pearson, a four-time national rally champion, has driven both a Ford Fiesta Rally2 and more recently a Skoda Fabia R5 since stepping up to the BRC last year.

But the switch to a Polo, run by Melvyn Evans Motorsport, puts him with the car and team that has won both the 2021 and 2022 British titles and 11 of the last 15 BRC rounds.

The Scotsman's first event in his new car will be his home event, the Jim Clark, on May 26/27.

"I'm incredibly excited to announce that we will be using a Polo from Melvyn Evans Motorsport for the rest of the season," Pearson said.

"We know that the Polo is proven on the events that we're going to, and Melvyn Evans Motorsport are going to be able to provide us with good help and feedback on the events and give us a good starting point in terms of set-up.

"The car and team have won the previous two British championships so it's a good step for us to drive this car and learn from these guys.

"We are sure we have the right package to unlock our full potential."

Pearson moves on from Dylan Davies Rallying on good terms.

"The Skoda was a one-event deal to start us off this season," he explained.

"Dylan Davies was great, he helped us out last season and the start of this season, but through no fault of Dylan's we've decided to try the Polo for the rest of the year given its proven winning capability in the BRC.

"I cannot wait to get my first try in the car and see what we can do for the rest of the year."

But Pearson will be doing so with a heavy heart after the rallying world lost Hyundai World Rally Championship star Craig Breen earlier this week.

"I’d like to take this opportunity to pay my respects to Craig Breen," Pearson said.

"Craig for me was the life and soul of rallying in the WRC. He lived and breathed rallying wearing his heart of his sleeve, holding back no emotion.

"We thought long and hard about when to announce our plans after the tragic news, but Craig wouldn't have wanted any of us to stop enjoying the sport he loved so much.

"My thoughts are with Craig's family, close friends and many fans around the world."

Pearson is supported by Billie Bowie Special Projects, Hankook UK, Asset Alliance Group, George Anderson General Builders, Solid Fuel Hub, Husqvarna, R.L Smith & Sons, Brick & Steel Construction and Morris Lubricants. switch to a Volkswagen Polo GTI R5 for the rest of the British Rally Championship season.

[J4MIE]

Got a last last minute seat for Clacton with Charlie Barlow in his 1400S Micra. Two runs along the seafront yesterday evening went ok and blew away the cobwebs as my last rally was in August. Forecast for some rain today which might make things interesting…

https://www.rallies.info/res?e=521&i=300

[J4MIE]

Well as last minute seats go that was a lot of fun, Charlie properly going for it all day with the rain getting steadily worse, got away with a few moments here and there to finish 9th overall in a 1400 Micra! :eek: :D

[Sal yet again]

Wow thats a proper result with all that big banger machinery on the entry list! Just goes to show there is no substitute for talent and commitment!

[J4MIE]

Wow thats a proper result with all that big banger machinery on the entry list! Just goes to show there is no substitute for talent and commitment!

Talent and commitment, plenty of that on the drivers side :p
Really on it from the first bend, went out on wets as it had been raining overnight and got worse and worse, lots of big puddles on the last look and more than a few wobbles on the limiter :eek:
We were lucky to only get held up briefly by one car on the middle loop (cost us about 5 seconds) and same again on the final loop. To be fair quote a few came over and asked us to start ahead as they saw how well we were doing and didn’t want to get in the way! Was a bit worried going into the final stage being the longest of the loop but finished about 200m behind him flat over the flying finish (an Evo 6).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

MN could be interesting this week....

We have a look at the current state of rallying in the UK. Special Investigation: Why British rallying needs your help.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fusrpf_X0AIcHd8?format=jpg&name=large

[J4MIE]

Is it possible to buy a single cope of MN as a PDF?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is it possible to buy a single cope of MN as a PDF?

Looks like...

https://pocketmags.com/motorsport-news-magazine

And they just tweeted this link where its £2.99...

https://shop.kelsey.co.uk/single-issue/motorsport-news-magazine/5168

[Sal yet again]

On a slightly different topic but kind of connected I seem to remember reading that the end of April was D_Day for any chance of a round of the WRC coming back to the UK/Ireland any time soon. Has anyone seen any updates yet?

[Paul Hudson]

On a slightly different topic but kind of connected I seem to remember reading that the end of April was D_Day for any chance of a round of the WRC coming back to the UK/Ireland any time soon. Has anyone seen any updates yet?

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-rally-uk-2024-bid-deadline-extended/10460550/

[AndyRAC]

I don't know whether the cancellation of the Ulster GP is any indication of the likely outcome - but it can't help.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Osian PRYCE 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

New Season….

New Car..
New Team
New Co Driver

New Challenge…
Coming soon…..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fu0D_BCWcAAUMSz?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Devine leads the ITRC Rally of the Lakes after SS4. Harsh on previous leader Rob Duggan after losing time on SS3 with J.Moffetts slow (nominal) time after Meirion Evans went off.

[J4MIE]

Biggie for Damien Cole on Epynt today, both taken to hospital. Car completely destroyed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sad end for Rob Duggan damaging the Polo R5 on the Rally of the Lakes penultimate stage, and not risking it going to the end.

Heroic drive from the guy, setting 5 fastest stage times in an R5, when he's usually in a Mk2 Escort !

Robert Barrable also superb, taking 2nd place to Devine by just 25sec.

[Sal yet again]

Hope they are both ok. Damien has been a bit of a controversial character in past years however in the current climate especially its never good to hear about big crashes.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-rally-uk-2024-bid-deadline-extended/10460550/

Thanks for the link. Looks like they are hedging their bets however cant see any chance of a mainland GB rally especially in England with a £3 million entry fee..

[AndyRAC]

£3 million is a hell of a lot of money for a series of the WRC's size.....

[Sal yet again]

Found this pic online of the Cole wreck and testament to the strength of the Fabia cage that they were both relatively ok. Must be doubly upsetting for him that his daughter was in the nav's seat.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10229757662829474&set=a.10200372578820739&locale=en_GB

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Found this pic online of the Cole wreck and testament to the strength of the Fabia cage that they were both relatively ok. Must be doubly upsetting for him that his daughter was in the nav's seat.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10229757662829474&set=a.10200372578820739&locale=en_GB

Wow that must've been brutal. So glad they survived it relatively well.

[AndyRAC]

Another example of Epynt taking no prisoners; how many times has he done events on Epynt - and yet it can still catch you out. There are very rarely small 'offs' there......

A speedy recovery to both the crew.....

[AndyRAC]

https://www.autosport.com/national/news/motorsport-uk-exploring-new-uk-rally-festival/10464444/

Motorsport UK behind plans for a UK rally festival...........

[the sniper]

If they want it to "help grow rallying" it should feature a truly representative stage, it'd have to be somewhere like Sutton Park, Wollaton Park, Bute Park or Bellahouston Park, somewhere as near as possible to a large popular centre, where people can easily come and have a look. The likes of Castle Combe and Chatsworth are just too far out. It may be a couple of years too late for the former though, in terms of getting the local authorities onboard and keeping the likes of Just Stop Oil away... Sadly, I think the time to do this was 10 years ago.

[AndyRAC]

I thought it could do with being part of an actual event; but I'm not sure how they'd make that work. And it would have to be an annual event, not a 'one off'.

[Paul Hudson]

Do we really need another rally festival ?, why not spend the money getting a WRC Event back in the UK and build on that with, Hospitality, Media, Spectator numbers in the Thousands every day.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Do we really need another rally festival ?, why not spend the money getting a WRC Event back in the UK and build on that with, Hospitality, Media, Spectator numbers in the Thousands every day.

I agree with this.

We need a top series event back (ERC / WRC) and then have a spectator stage like the Rallyfest we had at WRGB with top cars and also demo runs from Group B cars etc. This would need to be as central and near cities as possible.

Rallyday already exists and adding something similar wont make any difference - another sticking plaster on a gaping wound.

[AndyRAC]

Do we really need another rally festival ?, why not spend the money getting a WRC Event back in the UK and build on that with, Hospitality, Media, Spectator numbers in the Thousands every day.

I'm guessing that they don't expect to find the funds to get either a WRC/ERC back, so this will have to suffice.

Saying that, the current events are pretty small, and hardly what you'd describe as a Festival.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Osian Pryce has done a deal for the next 3 Rounds of the ERC !

Great news and will be good to finally have a someone British to cheer again.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jim Clark seeded entry list

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/2023/jimclark/entries.php?type=s

[HKSjbg]

It seems kind of perplexing to me that this year and last, the Jim Clark and Reivers both have very healthy entry lists, yet there is no 3-day ‘International’ for lack of a more appropriate term.

The Ulster is going to be 157km long this year and round three at Ypres is going to be 221km, yet round two is just 107km and probably done and dusted after an hour-ish of stage running when there could be 173km and three days of action. Is it just me or does this seem like it could have been an easy win to get a ‘bigger’ event on the BRC?

[Steve Boyd]

Running the BRC on Sunday with the Scottish Championship would require a different route & schedule to accommodate the numbers of cars. In the years I worked on results the Reivers was frequently very hard work getting the entire field through the stages at 30 second intervals within the road closure times. Delays on the first run through frequently had knock-on stage cancellations of multiple stages for the tail of the field which lead to disgruntled competitors. You have to ask yourself whether the current event organisers want the extra work that a 3-day BRC event would entail.

[HKSjbg]

Thanks for the insight! Is the scheduling issue specific to running a closed road rally in that part of the country or is it a problem possibly faced by the Argyll organisers too?

[Steve Boyd]

Thanks for the insight! Is the scheduling issue specific to running a closed road rally in that part of the country or is it a problem possibly faced by the Argyll organisers too?
It applies to all rallies on closed roads. It isn't as critical under the new legislation as it was because the order these days can be for 24 hours with the provision to be implemented in full for periods within that 24 hours.

In the past for the JCMR there were full closures for declared periods that were precisely defined and if you ran late there was the risk the closure order would run out before the tail of the field had completed the stage. A delay with a split in the field could cause stages to be cancelled for the late runners as they wouldn't get through before the road had to be opened. If the geography of the route was such that the tail couldn't catch up in that loop then you'd have no choice but to cut all remaining stages in that loop and send them back to service & re-group, sometimes missing two or three stages.

Even under the new rules, where the full closure is more flexible, you still don't want to be running late because if you've told the residents on the route that they will have full access by, say, 6pm you want to be clear by that time so you get their support for the event next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Live action tonight..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxDgo__WIAEmyOo?format=jpg&name=small

[J4MIE]

https://jimclarkrally.co.uk/jim-clark-rally-statement/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sad about the fan. At least with the delay we and the drivers got some real night rally action and a great atmosphere with lights and glowing discs.

Day 2 on Special Stage.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxHp9fGXoAAv0k3?format=jpg&name=small

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The win goes to Fourmaux but not great times today... maybe just managing his lead.

3 surprising stage wins for James Ford... ironically in a Citroen !

[Sal yet again]

Not been following the rally as such but was surprised to see it all over and done by just after lunch.

[HKSjbg]

The next two rounds will be stiffer competition (for the overall win not BRC win) for Fourmaux if he competes in them, Ypres sounds likely:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/fourmaux-wins-jim-clark-rally/


Asked how he was finding the BRC, Fourmaux added: “Yeah, really enjoying [it]. It was different with the gravel and on Tarmac, so we see the next event, so it’s really interesting.”

Ulster will be cool to see Fourmaux against the ITRC regulars

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Possible good news from Matt Edwards - he's registered for Donegal, budget not withstanding.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CsuAecrsPQN/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[mousti]

The next two rounds will be stiffer competition (for the overall win not BRC win) for Fourmaux if he competes in them, Ypres sounds likely:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/fourmaux-wins-jim-clark-rally/



Ulster will be cool to see Fourmaux against the ITRC regularsHe's already entered for Ypres, he's stablemate Munster will probably join him whether in Factory Fiesta or again JMotorsport Fiesta from Belgium.

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[ouvreur]

The win goes to Fourmaux but not great times today... maybe just managing his lead.

3 surprising stage wins for James Ford... ironically in a Citroen !

Ford, Henderson and Thorburn were all running 34mm restrictors, as they weren't registered for the BRC.

I bet Fourmaux's in-car over Longformacus in the dark would be some bit of footage...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford, Henderson and Thorburn were all running 34mm restrictors, as they weren't registered for the BRC.

I bet Fourmaux's in-car over Longformacus in the dark would be some bit of footage...

Thanks, that explains it. I see that only 9 of the Rally2 cars were entered in the BRC section.

And yes, Fourmaux was awesome in the dark... 7sec faster than in the daylight !

[AndyRAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW3hH2tAJmo&ab_channel=BritishRallyChampionship

MSUK BRC - Jim Clark Rally Highlights......

[HKSjbg]

Looks like this year’s Rali Ceredigion will be another corker:

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/articles/v/70-rali-ceredigion-announces-2023-date-and-new-title-sponsor-jds-machinery/

160 stage km, new stages around Myherin, Hafren and the Elan Valley included and the ceremonial start takes place on the Friday.

[hutchie]

Looks like this year’s Rali Ceredigion will be another corker:

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/articles/v/70-rali-ceredigion-announces-2023-date-and-new-title-sponsor-jds-machinery/

160 stage km, new stages around Myherin, Hafren and the Elan Valley included and the ceremonial start takes place on the Friday.

Very close to the 180 - 220km range that's required for an ERC event. Definitely a contender I'd hope for bringing a major championship back to the isles.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

ThisIsIrishRallying confirms...

THEY ARE BACK!

Great to see Matt Edwards & Dave Moynihan will return to the hills at Donegal Int Rally next weekend in a VW Polo R5 !

[AndyRAC]

Very close to the 180 - 220km range that's required for an ERC event. Definitely a contender I'd hope for bringing a major championship back to the isles.

Well one hopes so, we need a top series in the UK. The issue, not surprisingly is going to be finding the funding for the event. However, it's an event that seems to be growing, and deserves success.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The ERC has to be the target series for Rally Ceredigion and UK Motorsport should be doing everything it can to help this happen.

And I'm sure the ERC with Iain Campbell now in charge would love to get an event in the UK to help the diversity of locations it covers.

[hutchie]

I've also heard that East Riding Stages Rally's long term plan is to join ERC but with this years event running at 72km's I would guess they would be a few years behind Rali Ceredigion in that being possible. But it's nice to see these events looking at the possibility.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lefebvre registers for BRC in Ypres !

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/lefebvre-registers-for-british-championship-in-ypres/

I wonder if Fourmaux will take him on ? ;)

[mousti]

Lefebvre registers for BRC in Ypres !

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/lefebvre-registers-for-british-championship-in-ypres/

I wonder if Fourmaux will take him on ? ;)It's a loophole to use Michelin tyres instead of Pirelli ..

Besides that weak entry of Brits, Cronin seems to skip Ypres ..

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[J4MIE]

Lefebvre registers for BRC in Ypres !

https://dirtfish.com/rally/brc/lefebvre-registers-for-british-championship-in-ypres/

I wonder if Fourmaux will take him on ? ;)

I still don’t regret stopping reading most of the Dirtfish PR nonsense. Trying to use this to big up the quite frankly laughable British Championship is quite some joke.

[HKSjbg]

I still don’t regret stopping reading most of the Dirtfish PR nonsense. Trying to use this to big up the quite frankly laughable British Championship is quite some joke.

The BRC barely even gets bigged up by dirtfish - there’ll probably be two more articles on the BRC for the rest of the year now.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I still don’t regret stopping reading most of the Dirtfish PR nonsense. Trying to use this to big up the quite frankly laughable British Championship is quite some joke.

I dont read any BRC bigging-up in the article. it's basically just the facts and that he's entered the BRC so as not to effect the Belgian Championship.

But anything that gives the rally stronger competition has to be a good thing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Speaking of DF, I'm quite looking forward to the podcast about Luke Barry entering the two Jim Clark events. The insight he gets from actually driving in a rally for the first time should be really interesting.

[mousti]

I dont read any BRC bigging-up in the article. it's basically just the facts and that he's entered the BRC so as not to effect the Belgian Championship.

But anything that gives the rally stronger competition has to be a good thing.It are the wrong facts, he's just registered for the Brits because he can use Michelin tyres, for Belgian championship he's only allowed to use Pirelli..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[AndyRAC]

https://www.facebook.com/RogerAlbertClark

New 2 day event planned for 2024, and to run the years the RAC doesn't.......

[HKSjbg]

Wow, 190-224km long, multi-day, classic 80s/90s RAC stages and even open to all car classes! This is exactly what British rallying needs. Hopefully we’ll see a healthy Rally2 entry

[AndyRAC]

It means (hopefully) there is a multi-day rally every year in November.........

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It are the wrong facts, he's just registered for the Brits because he can use Michelin tyres, for Belgian championship he's only allowed to use Pirelli..



The fact is a quote by Lefebvre:
“In order to not influence the Belgian Championship, we will only be registered in the British championship.”

[mousti]

The fact is a quote by Lefebvre:
“In order to not influence the Belgian Championship, we will only be registered in the British championship.”And a quote in Belgian Press by Alain Georges team manager of DG Sport, "In the British Rally Championship, the choice of tyre brand is free and we benefit from an agreement with Michelin as part of this operation." ;)

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Donegal Rally preview:

https://rallyinsight.com/2023/06/14/donegal-rally-preview-friday-shake-up-precedes-weekend-classics/

[hutchie]

Seemingly there is 4 BRC registered Rally2 competitors doing Ypres, one being Lefebvre and the other being Fourmaux. Essentially meaning 2 British crews in the top class doing the event.

It's a really bad look for the championship and seems to me the decision to include Ypres again has backfired. Could we ever foresee a situation where the Belgian Rally Championship would include a British round in their calendar?

I don't have the answers to fix the BRC but the Jim Clark seemed relatively like a minor success for the championship while Ypres feels a failure.

[HKSjbg]

And no doubt Ulster and Ceredigion will be roaring successes and both for different reasons for why the Jim Clark was.

I feel like if the Ulster moved to run alongside the Down Rally on the penultimate weekend of July, the gap from the Jim Clark would be suitable enough for a normal summer break and there would be no need for a late June event.

The huge gap between rounds 1 & 2 would still need sorting though and the Cork 20 organisers wouldn’t want to go back to being the final round of the ITRC - if you could imagine the ITRC finishing even earlier than it does now!

[Sal yet again]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/othersport/arid-41158342.html

Next years Galway Rally which has traditionally been the ITRC opener has been cancelled due to a fallout between the organisers and the governing body.

This bit of the story also looks ominous for the other rounds:

The Irish Examiner understands that Motorsport Ireland is to hike up the costs of rally championship permits for 2024. Earlier this week during a planned meeting between MI officials and the TROA, the latter were informed that the increase could be as much as eighty per cent of the current fee. The TROA apply for four permits to run the various categories of the ITRC. A decision on the amount will be announced in due course.

[Steve Boyd]

Manx Autosport have announced that the Chris Kelly Memorial Stages Rally due to run on 29 & 30 September 2023 has been cancelled.

A report from Manx Radio with a club statement is available here:
https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-sport/rally-chris-kelly-memorial-stages-cancelled-amid-sport-restructure/

[HKSjbg]

Is it wishful thinking to hope ‘two major events each year’ means they’re aiming to bring the BRC back to the Isle of Man?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Matt Edwards wins SS9 in Dònegal ! Very impressive as he's new to the Polo and Moffett and Devine are going flat out at the top trading seconds.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

An even better time by Edwards on SS12 taking 7sec out of Devine and 14sec off Josh Moffett. He loves that Knockhalla stage !

Edit:
Just to prove he's not a one stage wonder, Edwards wins SS13 & SS14 by good margins too.
I believe he had diff issues on Friday so without that he would probably be challenging for the win.

[Steve Boyd]

Is it wishful thinking to hope ‘two major events each year’ means they’re aiming to bring the BRC back to the Isle of Man?

Good question, I have no idea, but the International Rally was a round of the ERC & ITRC as well as the BRC before the BRC banned 4WD cars in the late 90's.

[HKSjbg]

That was also a different motor club organising the International too wasn’t it? And what used to be the Pokerstars Rally has crept ever closer to the traditional September date

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Josh Moffett, the defending champion, is out of the Donegal International Rally following a crash on SS17, Fanad Head.

He and his co-driver are ok thankfully.

Callum Devine is now out in front by 53.1 seconds. Sam Moffett and Matt Edwards are now battling for 2nd place.

[ouvreur]

Matt Edwards wins SS9 in Dònegal ! Very impressive as he's new to the Polo and Moffett and Devine are going flat out at the top trading seconds.

New to the Polo, that he won 3 rallies and the 2021 BRC in? ;)

[Steve Boyd]

That was also a different motor club organising the International too wasn’t it? And what used to be the Pokerstars Rally has crept ever closer to the traditional September date
That sort of depends on how far back you go. Certainly during the later years the International event was organised by a separate company to limit any financial liability on the local motor clubs but it relied heavily on members of both local clubs for its manpower. There was a period in the 90's where both the National in May and International in September had the same Clerk of the Course.

The Pokerstars has grown considerably in recent years particularly following the demise of Rally Isle of Man. My guess is that that Manx Autosport's plan is for that event and the May event to form the basis of the two future events but they need a bit more time to get the teams together to run two events to the standard that's expected and they'll need IoM Government support for road closures and use of the TT facilities, for example, to run those events.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New to the Polo, that he won 3 rallies and the 2021 BRC in? ;)

I meant after driving hardly at all and in a C3 last year.

[AndyRAC]

BRC - Ypres starts later this afternoon. The usual end of stage coverage on Facebook. I do wonder why Special Stage can do live coverage of BTRDA/National events, yet for the BRC, all we get is post stage coverage.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great start by Chris Ingram in Ypres, just 0.7s off the fastest time on SS1 !

[Destra quattro]

https://fb.watch/llHccJxDQy/
Big off for rally leader

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The BRC and overall Ypres Rally win goes to Fourmaux. Not really in doubt after Lefebvre crashed out.

[hutchie]

BRC - Ypres starts later this afternoon. The usual end of stage coverage on Facebook. I do wonder why Special Stage can do live coverage of BTRDA/National events, yet for the BRC, all we get is post stage coverage.....

I know that Special Stage have said previously that they have turned down work where they have been asked to provide post stage coverage only because it's not what they as fans of the sport would want to watch.

[AndyRAC]

No, they are right; post stage coverage is a bit 90s/00s. Nothing against Matt and the team, but it's not great that our supposed 'premier' series can't have proper live coverage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There was some live coverage at the previous rounds and maybe Ypres being part of the Belgian Championship prevented it.

I watched some live action and interviews on You Tube which seemed like the event's official coverage:

https://youtube.com/@RacingAction

[AndyRAC]

https://www.britishrallychampionship.co.uk/news/new-look-for-brcs-final-fling-of-2023/

Some changes to the Cambrian Rally; a shame the Friday night tarmac stages have been binned due to requests from competitors.

[HKSjbg]

I hope the 10 miler to end the National rally will be Clocaenog Mid.

Unlikely though as “… all the stages are in the forests of Conwy county” and Cloc-Mid falls outside of Conwy :(

[Steve Boyd]

"all the stages are in the forests of Conwy county”There's no such county as Conwy & there never has been. It's Clwyd now and was Flintshire and Denbighshire in the (distant) past. The event sponsor is Conwy County Borough Council. A County Borough is a type of local authority within a traditional county but with local control over some taxation and service delivery.

The press release also says:
"An added benefit for sponsors is the provision of a hospitality facility at the Llyn Brenig Visitor Centre …"implying that some parts of Clocaenog will be used.

[HKSjbg]

That’s splitting hairs a bit isn’t it? As far as I can tell Counties and County Boroughs all fall under the grouping ‘Principal Areas’, and when Visit Conwy encourage us to visit Conwy I think we all know where they mean.

The Alwen and Brenig parts of Clocaenog are definitely within Conwy County (borough) borders, but the -mid and -east sections of Clocaenog are not. Were the Cambrian organisers making the claim that all stages were within Conwy last year when Cloc East ran?

[Steve Boyd]

In the past a County Borough fell within a County and had partial autonomy (bit like the WAG & Wesminster). The new Welsh County Boroughs would appear to have full County status which makes me wonder why they bothered including the word "Borough" in the title. It's an Old-English word, which seems even odder for Wales :confused:

I can't recall a claim over the route being entirely within the county ever being made, whether the eastern part of Clocaenog was used or not. I can see the advantage of not using the middle and eastern parts from the organisers point of view as it saves having to deal with another local authority while planning the event.

Has anybody used the middle section of Clocaenog since the wind turbines went in?

[AndyRAC]

I'm guessing the 10 miler would be Brenig, plus the western part of Clocaenog; you actually turn left alongside the lake through some gates and take in part of the forest and then come out near the dam; I rode it on my MTB a few days before RallyGB back in 2018/19.

[Steve Boyd]

Or, close the 'B' road and run Brenig & Alwen together as one stage.

[AndyRAC]

Yes, which they did in 2018.

[Sal yet again]

Had the misfortune to make my first ever visit to a Rally Day at Castle Combe on Saturday. Luckily the weather behaved but the show itself was lacklustre at best with only a handful of "Clubmans" cars circulating and one "feature stage" with some replica Quattros and a couple of Impreza WRCs to liven things up. Julian Porter and Howard Davies tried their best but with not even a current Rally 2 car or a single MK2 Escort present they ran out of anything meaningful to try and talk about. Very sparse trade stands and a few owners clubs displays couldnt really justify the entrance fee. Appreciate that there was talk earlier this year of a new demo type event in the UK and that this was just one venue's attempt however if that is the best the UK has to offer then we are screwed.

[AndyRAC]

I'm sure all those involved are well meaning, but it needs a massive rethink; it's a tired old format - and not particularly well promoted (well there's a surprise).

We need a proper weekend event at a central UK venue - when WRC teams, etc can turn up. Add in a competitive element, like the Hill Climb competition at the Goodwood festival....

[Steve Boyd]

Yes, which they did in 2018.
But not on the Cambrian!

[the sniper]

Had the misfortune to make my first ever visit to a Rally Day at Castle Combe on Saturday. Luckily the weather behaved but the show itself was lacklustre at best with only a handful of "Clubmans" cars circulating and one "feature stage" with some replica Quattros and a couple of Impreza WRCs to liven things up. Julian Porter and Howard Davies tried their best but with not even a current Rally 2 car or a single MK2 Escort present they ran out of anything meaningful to try and talk about. Very sparse trade stands and a few owners clubs displays couldnt really justify the entrance fee. Appreciate that there was talk earlier this year of a new demo type event in the UK and that this was just one venue's attempt however if that is the best the UK has to offer then we are screwed.

Sorry to hear that, for you and the organisers. It almost seems inconceivable that there wasn't Mk2 Escort! Crikey, a first for a UK event...? Feel lucky to have gone in 2017, with the likes of the 2017 WRC Fiesta, R5s, Group As (Inc. ST185 Celica), Group Bs, Escorts, as well as the likes of Wilson, Grist, Evans, Tanak and Latvala wondering about... Almost recommended Rallyday to a colleague looking to attend their first event and take their kids, glad I didn't now.

Like British rallying in general, it's very hard to come back once you fall too far.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That's really disappointing to hear. They have been quite good in the past.

It seems the promotion was really poor - like I only heard about it on the day it started from social media. If the possible attendees were the same no wonder it was lacking in cars.

The country has loads of Rally2 car owners, mostly doing BTRDA or MN Circuit events, so there's no excuse. And I know Chris Ingram was there but even he didnt/couldn't show off a Rally2 car !

[Sal yet again]

Maybe it was the move to a summer date or promoter greed/issues however lots of people I talked to on the day and have seen comment on social media in the aftermath have said this was the final nail in the coffin for them. The lament in Julian's voice couldnt be hidden that there wasnt more modern machinery or even a MK2 so it wasnt that everyone was on message all day!

Not going to Goodwood FOS this year and that may be a mistake as understand there will be a sizeable rallying presence there however if the powers that be want a "proper" rally based show event they just cant leave it to the market to decide it would appear.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally Day video:

https://youtu.be/VNhX1c3baKg

[HKSjbg]

162km for this year’s Rali Ceredigion:

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/files/2023-rally-guide.pdf?2

Looks like only the Aberystwyth and Nant-y-Moch stages remain from the previous two years, though I wonder if Cwmerfyn is a modified route of Pendam…

It’s great to see much more new stage mileage possible and that it is possible for a UK mainland stage rally to run over 80/100 ish kms.

[AndyRAC]

Watching the Nicky Grist on You Tube; looked at the speccy information and it appears that Route 60 is not used and Crychan is no longer a spectator stage. Can't say I'd ever been to Llyn Login before.....

[the sniper]

Can't say I'd ever been to Llyn Login before.....

First time I'd been over the south side of Halfway, slim pickings in terms of decent spectating spots.

Talking of stages, I'm personally really looking forward to the Woodpecker as they're using Ceri/Kerry for a stage, which I don't think has been used for two decades but was often used in the past. I imagine it'll only be a 5 or 6km stage as much of the tacks used previously in there aren't usable any more.

Another random stage question I've been meaning to look into, does anybody know where 'Esgair Berfaud' is on Friday of the RAC? The times could just about allow for a stage anywhere from Brechfa to Esgair Dafydd. I'd love it to be the latter, an 8km stage up there, over the Cwm Henog forestry trunk road, but suspect it may be something in Crychan? Apologies if I've missed something obvious.

[HKSjbg]

I was having a look for it over the weekend. Couldn’t find any mention of ‘Esgair Berfaud’ anywhere on the internet. Then I had a bit of a trawl through OS maps on bing maps and found ‘Esgair’ is fairly common, not just used in Esgair Dafydd.

The only clue really is the difference in time between that stage and the first Hafren stage - it could well be Esgair Dafydd under a different name or even nearer Carmarthen. Is the overnight halt after leg 1 back in Carmarthen or does it move north/east from there?

I found it much easier to figure out that Glencaird Hill and Arroch Hill are in fact two halves of Glentrool

If the weather in September is anything like this lovely rallying weather we’ve been having in July (no I’m being serious) then I might give the Woodpecker a go too. It’s been my most local rally for a couple of years now, but getting choked by dust doesn’t interest me the slightest bit!

[ouvreur]

Look at an OS Landranger map of Esgair Dafydd, then look two miles or so to the west.

I would say they’re referring to, but have mis-spelled, Esgair Berfedd.

[AndyRAC]

First time I'd been over the south side of Halfway, slim pickings in terms of decent spectating spots.

Talking of stages, I'm personally really looking forward to the Woodpecker as they're using Ceri/Kerry for a stage, which I don't think has been used for two decades but was often used in the past. I imagine it'll only be a 5 or 6km stage as much of the tacks used previously in there aren't usable any more.


Isn't this the stage with the 'ski slope'? I recall going there on the Mid Wales stages back in June 2005

[HKSjbg]

Look at an OS Landranger map of Esgair Dafydd, then look two miles or so to the west.

I would say they’re referring to, but have mis-spelled, Esgair Berfedd.

I did spot that, I wondered if it was intentionally cryptic by RACMC to call it that or whether it is an alternate spelling - but still no reference anywhere on the internet to ‘Berfaud’ makes me think otherwise.

There’s also three stages on leg 1 called ‘no spectators’ which I’m assuming is Glasfynydd - but is it all three runs or is there another short stage somewhere?

[the sniper]

Look at an OS Landranger map of Esgair Dafydd, then look two miles or so to the west.

I would say they’re referring to, but have mis-spelled, Esgair Berfedd.

Rather confusingly though there's another reference to a 'Esgair-Berfedd' in the south eastern bit of Crychan: https://www.geograph.org.uk/showmap.php?gridref=SN84743714


Isn't this the stage with the 'ski slope'? I recall going there on the Mid Wales stages back in June 2005

There's certain a big hill in there!

[Sal yet again]

Should have booked to go to Goodwood FOS instead of Rallyday! Looks like all 3 WRC teams will be present!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Should have booked to go to Goodwood FOS instead of Rallyday! Looks like all 3 WRC teams will be present!

That's right. Presumably they'll do the rally stage as well as up the hill. It should be fun to watch and compare the times.

I also heard that Steve Rimmer the owner of Dirtfish is bringing quite a few of his car collection (Group B mostly) and the McRae's will be there.

Tickets are sold out but there's usually TV and YT coverage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota were in the first batch of rally cars up the hill this morning - Evans in the Rally1 car and demo runs of the Yaris Rally2 and GR Yaris Hydrogen driven by Rowan Atkinson!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You can watch some live rally car coverage at:
Fri 8.30 & 17.15
Sat 10.20 & 17.30
Sun 9.55 & 17.15

https://www.youtube.com/live/s1x2sVTm3EI?feature=share

.

[Humber]

Fatal accident Sligo.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/07/16/two-competitors-in-sligo-stages-rally-are-killed-in-race-crash/

[HKSjbg]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/erc/evans-backs-welsh-event-for-erc-inclusion/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/erc/evans-backs-welsh-event-for-erc-inclusion/

Ceredigion really has got every chance with the praise its had since it started, plus being a TER event last year and ex-BRC boss Iain Campbell now running the ERC.

If this cant get a major rally series back in the UK nothing can.

[Sal yet again]

Fingers really crossed even if the September date clashes with my wedding anniversary so I cant attend! I just hope that the usual whinging about previous entrants not been able to get a spot of the start list due to those pesky Europeans doesnt happen again..

[AndyRAC]

I recall the IRC Rally Scotland, and UK drivers were hardly in abundance on the entry list.....Always moaning about something....

[hutchie]

Interesting format for Galloway hills rally with the normal 45 mile rally and an optional second leg in the dark. Will give a good insight into the desire for night stages and longer events for clubmen. Will have to wait till regs are out to see the additional cost for doing the extra night leg.

http://gallowayhillsrally.co.uk/all-new-format-for-the-49th-armstrong-galloway-hills-rally/?fbclid=IwAR2CMcZAoJOucTQfbsQxL5FnB7W14XIb7lSeDOu6 3Orl7734E0oUJa-GqIM

[Steve Boyd]

They say it will only be an extra £1 per mile for the night leg, which given that the first six stages amounts to 43 miles should be £21-50 for the extra 21½ miles. The money doesn't add up though, unless they're running the extra at a loss. The MSUK permit fees are £88-00 for a 45+ mile Interclub event compared with £59-50 for less than 45 miles, so the increase in permit fee is £28-50 and that's before the increased forestry charge for the additional use. For those that aren't aware, the permit fee is payable for every starter and covers the organisers third-party insurance, amongst other things.

It might work as a one-off to see if there is the demand but I can't see it becoming common unless there is a significantly bigger price increase for the extra miles in future.

[HKSjbg]

Even the regular rally is starting quite late - 4pm!

I wonder if this is in an effort to encourage MSUK to re-think their permit fee pricing structure. There was something on that in Motorsport News a few months ago when they did a big feature on the future of British rallying. I may have been the Rally North Wales clerk of the course who said it if I remember correctly.

[hutchie]

Even the regular rally is starting quite late - 4pm!

I wonder if this is in an effort to encourage MSUK to re-think their permit fee pricing structure. There was something on that in Motorsport News a few months ago when they did a big feature on the future of British rallying. I may have been the Rally North Wales clerk of the course who said it if I remember correctly.

Must be a very compact route to be getting 3 loops of two stages in between 4pm and 11pm. Looking at maps it does seem the stages are generally very close to the service can see why they're restricting maximum entries.
Without knowing the stages well my one concern as a competitor would be stage conditions after 3 runs, even the smoothest stages these days tend to have small sections that get rutted / rough.
But don't want to sound negative as a co-driver I would love to be doing it and tackling forest stages in the dark is something I'm yet to experience as I'm sure many haven't.

[HKSjbg]

The last few years the service area has been a parcel of land off the A712 near Talnotry - very close to Clatteringshaws where the last two editions have had every stage. It’s in fact the other side of the road from Black Loch/Goat Park.

Last year’s rally was changed late on to three loops of two stages due to low entries, we must assume if all goes to plan this year it’ll be back to three stages so that 45 miles can run not including the optional third loop.

It’s good to see that rally organisers are trying these things;

The Malcolm Wilson was planning two more runs through both Grizedale stages to create about 98-99km of running. Even if the weather didn’t intervene it didn’t work out for the MWR unfortunately (I wonder how much of that was down to the BRC being the subject of the extra stage km)

The Speyside this year went up from barely over 60km to 85km with a Friday night leg. There was no shorter 45-mile rally running on the Saturday only as far as I can see and still it got 97 entries for a rally which is part of the SRC only - no BHRC, BTRDA or the like supporting it.

Then in October the Carlisle stages is running something - we don’t know what yet - on Friday night. I wonder whether it’ll be extra stages over the 70km mark or if it will be similar format to Grizedale Stages; running one stage on the Friday night but no extra total mileage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great battle for the win on the Cork 20 between Meirion Evans and Callum Devine. Just 3.6s between them after 10 stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And the win goes to..... Devine by 2.7s !

A great battle and a real shame that the final stage was a drive through after a crash in the Historics running first.

The Championship is close for Devine now but the Ulster Rally has extra points.

[Sal yet again]

What seems to have gone mainly un-noticed is that Ray Breen was out in the family Subaru Legacy and finished 33rd overall.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What seems to have gone mainly un-noticed is that Ray Breen was out in the family Subaru Legacy and finished 33rd overall.

He got plenty of mentions and some coverage on the FB streams.

He also won his Class (19) after the accident of his rival Tomas Davies on the last stage. A double shame for the Welsh as this also ended Meirion Evans chance of the overall win.

[Sal yet again]

Chris Lord one of the last of the famous "Yorkshire Mafia" has sadly passed away. Remember him on many an event in my formative years in various Griflex backed cars from a Chevette thru to a Quattro then an RX7.

rip

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Cronin ends 2023 challenge... :(

https://www.rallyfish.co.uk/news/cronin-ends-title-challenge?fbclid=IwAR2o9tLh8Ri3b6PRYqwvDWPELUIJXZg eCYaYsRkdNNr5otaswAKQ7HOLJJQ/

[Steve Boyd]

Chris Lord one of the last of the famous "Yorkshire Mafia" has sadly passed away. Remember him on many an event in my formative years in various Griflex backed cars from a Chevette thru to a Quattro then an RX7.

rip
Not to mention the "Elgam Organs" cars before the "Griflex" cars.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'd forgotten that Evo were supposed to be promoting the BRC :rolleyes:

https://www.evo.co.uk/rallying/205137/2023-british-rally-championship-returns-to-the-ulster-rally

[HKSjbg]

Some new/returning stages again for the Ulster:

https://www.rally-maps.com/Ulster-Rally-2023

It may still be much shorter than any of the ROI rounds but it’s starting to get back to it’s traditional format - looking forward to watching this one

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Some new/returning stages again for the Ulster:

https://www.rally-maps.com/Ulster-Rally-2023

It may still be much shorter than any of the ROI rounds but it’s starting to get back to it’s traditional format - looking forward to watching this one

I hope it's as competitive as it looks. With Fourmaux and Devine both on the cusp of winning the respective championships I wonder if they will go all-out for the rally win.

Their competitive instincts should mean they do and Fourmaux would still be a hot title favourite even with a non-finish here. However a crash for Devine could let in J.Moffett or Evans in the ITRC

[HKSjbg]

Well Devine only needs 4th or higher to take the title so I’d assume he’s gonna be more sensible in his approach. Fourmaux has got to be the favourite for the overall win even though he’s never been there before

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The weather forecast for Friday looks wet so that is another element to consider. The locals will be more used to the dirty corners along with their familiarity with the type of roads. I fancy Josh Moffett for the win.

Fourmaux has some experience in Ireland though...

This is the first time Fourmaux has entered the Northern Ireland Motor Club Ltd event, although seat time on closed-roads in the Republic of Ireland earlier in the year as part of on-going test and development work with the Blue Oval supermini has given him a taste of what he can expect.

“I have already started to work on my event preparation for Ulster and I know it is a mix of the Jim Clark Rally in Scotland and the test road we had in Ireland earlier this year,” added Fourmaux.

“The test that we had with the Fiesta Rally2 will be a really valuable experience. It will help to give us a good set-up base for the Ulster Rally, so we are really looking forward to that event.”

On his Ulster PET:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3vnoMwXIAAtvOu?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ulster Rally

⚠️ LIVE STREAM ALERT 📺

These are the only links you need this weekend:

🔵 Facebook
#UlsterRally - Official Stream
@IrishTarmacTROA
- Official Stream
@BRCrally
- Re Group Interviews
@onthepacenoteuk
- End of Stages Interviews

🔴 YouTube
https://youtube.com/@irishtarmacrallychampionship

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The two Champions-elect having a chat mid-rally..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F342MAtWoAAder-?format=jpg&name=medium

Both heading for the points they need with 3 stages to go.

[HKSjbg]

Cambrian regs:

https://cambrianrally.co.uk/content/downloads/Cambrian-RALLY-GUIDE-AUG23_v1.pdf

Clocaenog forest returns for the first time since 2014 - I’m assuming this means Clocaenog-Mid and may well be the 14-miler that ends the interclub event.

Also the National event finishes with a 9-mile stage, though the National rally is 11.34 miles longer than the interclub event… So I’m not sure what’s going on there.

Also apparently there as ‘all-new forest stage’ so I’m keen to see what forest complex that is in. I wonder if it’s never been used before or just never seen action on the Cambrian.

Penmachno, Brenig/Alwen and Cloc are all good, but I’m hoping there’s somewhere different like Dyfnant chucked in there for a bit of variety. The year it got snowed off (2017) the rally ventured as far south as Llangower and Aberhirnant remember…

[the sniper]

I can imagine the 14 mile stage just being a linked up Brenig-Cloc West-Alwen or vice versa, such as on Rally GB 2018, as much as I'd like to see something using Cloc Mid around the windfarm, but we can but hope.

As for the new stage, featuring "an all new forest stage for both [Cambrian] events", they say they're staying entirely Conwy County, so that doesn't give many options! Maybe here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/53%C2%B007'14.1%22N+3%C2%B032'20.7%22W/@53.1205932,-3.5416659,689m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d53.12059!4d-3.539091?entry=ttu ? I think it was used for the non-RC1 PET on Rally GB for a few years and hosted some kind of rally time trial like event in recent years?

[archie106]

As I understand, the stages being used are Alwen North, Cloc main, Brenig and Elsi. The 14 mile stage is the Cloc main and Brenig stages from the morning loop joined together. The interclub event uses Elsi once, the BRC event uses it twice for the extra few miles.

[Brynmor Pierce]

As I understand, the stages being used are Alwen North, Cloc main, Brenig and Elsi. The 14 mile stage is the Cloc main and Brenig stages from the morning loop joined together. The interclub event uses Elsi once, the BRC event uses it twice for the extra few miles.

That’s pretty much spot on from what I’ve heard too. NWCC and Alyn Edwards must be commended on getting Cloc Main back, they’ve been trying for years !

[Sal yet again]

Another sad loss from UK rallying's old guard. Cyril Bolton made his name in a Mini in the Motoring News road rally championship and in his later career was seen behind the wheel of a Chevette HSR/Manta 400 and then a 6R4. Remember he also backed one C McRae and his Sierra on a Trackrod rally in the later 80s.

Condolences to his family and friends

[Sal yet again]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuville-will-do-ravens-rock-rally-with-breens-best-friend/

I know this is technically a 2024 thread item however you might need to reserve a place behind the hedges sometime soon for this...

[HKSjbg]

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/files/2023-rali-ceredigion-entry-list.pdf

Disappointed to see Fourmaux won’t be heading to Ceredigion :( I’ll still be going for at least one of the days though, should be some brilliant spectator spots to choose from

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/files/2023-rali-ceredigion-entry-list.pdf

Disappointed to see Fourmaux won’t be heading to Ceredigion :( I’ll still be going for at least one of the days though, should be some brilliant spectator spots to choose from

It's lucky that locals Osian Pryce and Meirion Evans are able to fund entries or the quality of the Rally2 Class would be pretty abysmal.

[AndyRAC]

It's lucky that locals Osian Pryce and Meirion Evans are able to fund entries or the quality of the Rally2 Class would be pretty abysmal.

It does seem that UK drivers aren't interested in these events; will they support it if it gets ERC status? If it's anything like the IRC Rally Scotland, then the answer is 'NO'!

[the sniper]

It'll be nice to see the C3 Rally2s, for a bit of variety.

[Steve Boyd]

I remember, decades ago, that the thing to make the BRC better was to allow recce's - the recce ban was the thing that was holding British drivers back.

Ever since they allowed recce's on BRC events the British drivers have stopped doing them and the championship has been in a decline. The drivers have just done BTRDA events - one day, no recce, 40 - 45 stage miles.

Why would anyone expect them to come out on a European Championship event?

The organisers' only hope for local entries is to tag on a shorter, no recce event on one day and try to get it in the National Tarmac Championship.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meirion Evans replied on Twitter re the Rali Ceredigion entry...

"There are plenty of Rally2 cars, just for me it’s a shame the U.K. still allows R5+ cars."

I said there are only 4 Rally2 cars in BRC and he said:

"Yes but there are about 15-20 Rally2 cars not in BRC. This is the point I’ve made all year. If everyone had the same car (not R5+) and the BRC lowered its registration fee then surely it would be a massive step in the right direction on the whole."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rali Ceredigion @Rali_Ceredigion

��BREAKING ��

@MSportLtd Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 will perform demonstration runs through Aberystwyth on Saturday [2nd Sept] & on display at the Rali Show on Friday evening with M-Sport boss Malcolm Wilson also attending.

[AndyRAC]

Meirion Evans replied on Twitter re the Rali Ceredigion entry...

"There are plenty of Rally2 cars, just for me it’s a shame the U.K. still allows R5+ cars."

I said there are only 4 Rally2 cars in BRC and he said:

"Yes but there are about 15-20 Rally2 cars not in BRC. This is the point I’ve made all year. If everyone had the same car (not R5+) and the BRC lowered its registration fee then surely it would be a massive step in the right direction on the whole."


What does the higher registration fee go towards? As the media coverage is no better (in fact it's worse) than national club events......

Also, you can imagine the fallout if they banned R5+ cars.....

[HKSjbg]

I’d say the coverage is actually better, it’s just a shame the overall rally was not covered on the Ulster, just the BRC entrants. I wonder if it was down to media rights etc. that the ITRC drivers couldn’t be shown as well.

[mousti]

I’d say the coverage is actually better, it’s just a shame the overall rally was not covered on the Ulster, just the BRC entrants. I wonder if it was down to media rights etc. that the ITRC drivers couldn’t be shown as well.Probably because they aren't registered for the BRC and didnt pay the fee hence no free tv air time.

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[Steve Boyd]

What does the higher registration fee go towards?Presumably, to pay the professional championship management. Don't forget that the BRC is a National Championship with professional (i.e. salaried) managers. It can't be directly compared to the BTRDA Championship, which is a club championship with volunteer management receiving expenses only.

[AndyRAC]

I’d say the coverage is actually better, it’s just a shame the overall rally was not covered on the Ulster, just the BRC entrants. I wonder if it was down to media rights etc. that the ITRC drivers couldn’t be shown as well.

BRC rarely has live stage coverage, it's normally Matt doing updates/ interviews at the end of stage/stop control. Yet Special Stage cover events with live stage action.....

[AndyRAC]

Presumably, to pay the professional championship management. Don't forget that the BRC is a National Championship with professional (i.e. salaried) managers. It can't be directly compared to the BTRDA Championship, which is a club championship with volunteer management receiving expenses only.

Well yes; it was a rhetorical question. It would be nice if these paid managers actually earned their money, as I'm not seeing anything to really distinguish it from a club series.

[HKSjbg]

BRC rarely has live stage coverage, it's normally Matt doing updates/ interviews at the end of stage/stop control. Yet Special Stage cover events with live stage action.....

For me live stage coverage is about as flat and uninteresting as the relentless end-of-stage interviews, I always prefer to watch the overall roundup of the event. I sometimes dip in and out of the hours long ITRC coverage but for 5-10 mins at a time. But that’s just me, I get that live coverage is what a lot of people do want to see.

[HKSjbg]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/sportity/79815-jds-machinery-rali-ceredigion-2023/

Full stage maps are published on Sportity now, I’ve had a look at a few spots on each stage on street view and they all look absolutely world class roads.

Moorland sections, narrow lanes almost Manx-style, forested sections in the Llanafan and Clywedog (Hafren forest) stages, open road sections on the Cwmystwyth stage near Myherin - which includes the narrow road in the valley leading down to Rhayader that I predicted when I went to the 2021 Rallynuts could be a Ceredigion stage - and some exceptionally tight hairpins towards the end of Cwmerfyn. Makes you wanna be a rally driver (as if there’s any day of the week I don’t think that!)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good news from Osian Pryce re new sponsors on board to allow him to enter Ceredigion:

Overwhelmed with the amount of support since my previous social media post.

I’m Very grateful for the amount of local support I’ve had, that will enable me to confirm that I will be on the start line of next weekends Rali Ceredigion.

I Lost count of how many conversations I had this week with local business owners who can’t wait for the event to happen and see the benefits of such an event taking place in the local area. Very encouraging.

Hopefully thats all My small bad run of events out of the way now and things are back on the up.

Diolch yn fawr pawb
Thanks everyone.

[Steve Boyd]

For me live stage coverage is about as flat and uninteresting as the relentless end-of-stage interviews, I always prefer to watch the overall roundup of the event. I sometimes dip in and out of the hours long ITRC coverage but for 5-10 mins at a time. But that’s just me, I get that live coverage is what a lot of people do want to see.I agree - particularly when the leading contenders are running on different stages at the same time.
A well edited summary at the end of each leg that tells the story of who gained/lost time where, when and why appeals much more to me.
The old BBC reports on the Lombard RAC Rally are hard to beat. A good mix of in-car and external shots with crew interviews where there was time to ask sensible questions and wait for sensible answers really told the story as it was developing. The current obsession of everything needing to be live just doesn't work for me.

[Steve Boyd]

open road sections on the Cwmystwyth stage near Myherin - which includes the narrow road in the valley leading down to RhayaderI first drove that road when spectating on a Welsh International in the early 70's and thought what a great stage it would make. Driven & navigated it many times since on Welsh International & Lombard RAC Rallies and still think it will be a great stage. Always fancied doing it in a whale tail Porche Carrera - but that probably just shows how old I am!

[HKSjbg]

I agree - particularly when the leading contenders are running on different stages at the same time.
A well edited summary at the end of each leg that tells the story of who gained/lost time where, when and why appeals much more to me.
The old BBC reports on the Lombard RAC Rally are hard to beat. A good mix of in-car and external shots with crew interviews where there was time to ask sensible questions and wait for sensible answers really told the story as it was developing. The current obsession of everything needing to be live just doesn't work for me.

Mark James-era of WRC coverage and Steve Rider-era coverage of the BRC were always a good watch too. It’s very hard to pinpoint exactly what is was they did so well though!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I agree - particularly when the leading contenders are running on different stages at the same time.
A well edited summary at the end of each leg that tells the story of who gained/lost time where, when and why appeals much more to me.
The old BBC reports on the Lombard RAC Rally are hard to beat. A good mix of in-car and external shots with crew interviews where there was time to ask sensible questions and wait for sensible answers really told the story as it was developing. The current obsession of everything needing to be live just doesn't work for me.

Of course the way it was done in the old days always seems better, but that's because it was !

But seriously, going back to just watching end of day summaries when you know everything is reported/shown live, takes some real determination nowadays.

And remember when they showed a live tv stage from the RAC Rally how amazing it was...

[AndyRAC]

A high quality highlights show is a must; and while I'm in a minority in 2023 you do need some live coverage, providing it's done well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A high quality highlights show is a must; and while I'm in a minority in 2023 you do need some live coverage, providing it's done well.

Sad thing is that the BRC isn't doing either. But that's mainly due to the product, which now has no real excitement or story of a rally or Championship battle.

[the sniper]

Mark James-era of WRC coverage and Steve Rider-era coverage of the BRC were always a good watch too. It’s very hard to pinpoint exactly what is was they did so well though!

The slickest BRC coverage in recent years was 2016, hidden on Elfyn Evans' own You Tube channel, voiced (and produced?) by Mark James... If only they were longer with more onboards and covered everyone else. https://www.youtube.com/@elfynevans2124/videos

[AndyRAC]

The slickest BRC coverage in recent years was 2016, hidden on Elfyn Evans' own You Tube channel, voiced (and produced?) by Mark James... If only they were longer with more onboards and covered everyone else. https://www.youtube.com/@elfynevans2124/videos

I recall BBC Wales doing their own highlights coverage of RallyGB for a few years around 2009-10; it was far better than the official WRC product.

[Sal yet again]

Problem is whoever is behind the media/social media side of things for the BRC at present doesnt appear to think there is any need for such things. Basically unless its sound bites referring to "whips" and the like then its hard to see what their strategy is, maybe with so few registered competitors then there is no money for "proper" coverage? Looking at the Trackrod provisional entry the BRC field currently comprises of 9 confirmed entries and one reserve. Fourmaux isnt amongst those entries at present..

[Destra quattro]

Problem is whoever is behind the media/social media side of things for the BRC at present doesnt appear to think there is any need for such things. Basically unless its sound bites referring to "whips" and the like then its hard to see what their strategy is, maybe with so few registered competitors then there is no money for "proper" coverage? Looking at the Trackrod provisional entry the BRC field currently comprises of 9 confirmed entries and one reserve. Fourmaux isnt amongst those entries at present..
Only 5 starting this weekend..but hey it will be a new name on the winners list joining the greats of the past ..so all will be positive...

[Sal yet again]

Shame to read that Paul Bird BSB boss and former top national rally driver has passed away. Controversial character at times but a quick man none the less.

[HKSjbg]

I was just reading that story on motorsport.com. Mad how many BSB titles have won, I knew he ran one of the top teams, didn’t realise they were that good.

He was one of the last guys still driving a Focus WRC in this country IIRC

[HKSjbg]

This month’s Seacon Rally Show has an unexpected bonus - full Ulster report with both BRC and ITRC fields covered.

https://youtu.be/8W0p_29eoME?si=cQtvhPHL1FIwMNcP

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M.Evans poor on day one losing 50s to Pryce. Surprising as he been the more active on tarmac this year.

[AndyRAC]

M.Evans poor on day one losing 50s to Pryce. Surprising as he has been the more active on tarmac this year.

Most of that was on Stage 2 with a puncture....

[HKSjbg]

Osian Pryce looked markedly faster out on stage today I have to say. Stumbled upon the point where Paul Woodford, Hugh Hunter and the Special Stage team were set up on SS3 and went to the fan zone on SS5. I was still surprised to hear the times coming in from the SS5 stage side commentator for SS6 though

[AndyRAC]

Not sure this 'donuts barrel' has really worked; too many having to use the handbrake to get around it.

One has to say, watching the coverage, this event looks fabulous. Whether its in the ERC or not next year, I'll be booking a campsite and going to watch.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5FlTgVWgAA5gGT?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Most of that was on Stage 2 with a puncture....

Shame. Robbed us of a real battle for the win so early on.

[HKSjbg]

We went to three places over the weekend. Great action and introduced a friend to the brilliance of watching a rally!

Day 1 we went to Cwm Ystwyth viewing a high speed section from near the junction with the Elan Valley road. Then up to Cwmerfyn at the fan zone for the second loop. Today we went to the double hairpins for the afternoon run through Clywedog.

It was absolutely fantastic, especially today. This was also my first tarmac rally and the noise and spectacle was much more than I was expecting! Looking forward to next year with hopefully more Rally2s

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The BRC is a bit of a farce now with this one sort of thing....

🏆#BRC Rali Ceredigion Winners 🏆

Congratulations to James Williams Rallying and Dai Roberts on their first victory in the British Rally Championship!

The first BRC victory for the Hyundai Motorsport i20 Rally2.

[the sniper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5FlTgVWgAA5gGT?format=jpg&name=large


Looking forward to the onboards from Cwm Ystwyth, driven that road many a time over the years, used to walk over to Myherin from there on Rally GB...

Just Clywedog for me, surprisingly there was a green arrowed spectator route into there (which I was heading towards anyway) which wasn't advertised online. There was limited parking there, but it's good that the organisers accommodated people rather than making things awkward.

[AndyRAC]

The BRC is a bit of a farce now with this one sort of thing....

#BRC Rali Ceredigion Winners 

Congratulations to James Williams Rallying and Dai Roberts on their first victory in the British Rally Championship!

The first BRC victory for the Hyundai Motorsport i20 Rally2.

Well, technically they did win the BRC event......

However, it's rather farcical when two other drivers finished ahead of him. If you enter a BRC event, you're eligible for points.....End this 'registered' nonsense....what value is it adding? 5-6 registered BRC crews - really???

[Sal yet again]

Its not like there is anyone responding from the media team anyway! Asked a couple of questions over the weekend via the usual channels and was ignored.

That aside the scenery looked stunning in the late summer sunshine and the roads appeared a proper challenge. Nice to see Matt Wilson hooning the Puma around the town stage as well.

[AndyRAC]

I really don't understand having BRC stage end updates on Facebook only; most successful series are on YouTube......

[HKSjbg]

Almost forgot it was a round of TER, I think Osian Pryce had to be reminded at the end too

https://youtu.be/CyGkrUpfpm8?si=5O1CMWlHdaX_NvCO

[the sniper]

Almost forgot it was a round of TER, I think Osian Pryce had to be reminded at the end too

https://youtu.be/CyGkrUpfpm8?si=5O1CMWlHdaX_NvCO

I don't know how much it costs to be part of the TER, but you do get a nice little video out of them, at least!

[mousti]

It costs nothing or barely something, the organization has to pay a fee I think..

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin Clark.@voiceofrally

The Ulster is a classic event and Rali Ceredigion is certainly shaping up to be a classic.

Here’s the thing, these rallies had really good entries but the @BRCrally component has numbered 6 & 7 entries respectively !

Something is going very wrong here and needs urgent attention.

Thread
https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/1698397052395221102?s=20

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Forgive my ignorance but why were R5+ cars with bigger restrictors created at all ? Maybe just to be faster for slower drivers to enjoy ?

[AndyRAC]

Forgive my ignorance but why were R5+ cars with bigger restrictors created at all ? Maybe just to be faster for slower drivers to enjoy ?

Good question. How many other countries have them - or are we on our own, yet again. Far too much self interest in UK rallying, and too many drivers wanting to win on favourable terms beating more talented drivers in lower powered, less expensive cars.

[Steve Boyd]

Forgive my ignorance but why were R5+ cars with bigger restrictors created at all ? Maybe just to be faster for slower drivers to enjoy ?
UK national events run to UK rules and these allow the bigger restrictors that WRC cars have, so there's nothing to stop you from putting the bigger restrictor on a Rally2 or R5 car. When R5 cars were first introduced nobody in the UK ran them as old WRC cars were cheaper and quicker. Those who wanted to run the newer R5 cars, when they became available second hand, needed to fit the bigger restrictors to be competitive. If you were to restrict entries on UK events to cars complying with their FIA homologation you'd decimate the entries because very few cars in the UK run to their homologated specification.

[PLuto]

UK national events run to UK rules and these allow the bigger restrictors that WRC cars have, so there's nothing to stop you from putting the bigger restrictor on a Rally2 or R5 car. When R5 cars were first introduced nobody in the UK ran them as old WRC cars were cheaper and quicker. Those who wanted to run the newer R5 cars, when they became available second hand, needed to fit the bigger restrictors to be competitive. If you were to restrict entries on UK events to cars complying with their FIA homologation you'd decimate the entries because very few cars in the UK run to their homologated specification.

Allowing bigger restrictors to R5 cars was one of the biggest fails. Everywhere...

[HKSjbg]

UK national events run to UK rules and these allow the bigger restrictors that WRC cars have, so there's nothing to stop you from putting the bigger restrictor on a Rally2 or R5 car. When R5 cars were first introduced nobody in the UK ran them as old WRC cars were cheaper and quicker. Those who wanted to run the newer R5 cars, when they became available second hand, needed to fit the bigger restrictors to be competitive. If you were to restrict entries on UK events to cars complying with their FIA homologation you'd decimate the entries because very few cars in the UK run to their homologated specification.

“to restrict entries on UK events to cars complying with their FIA homologation” and ‘to ban the use of larger turbo restrictors on R5/Rally2 cars’ are two ends of the spectrum though

[AndyRAC]

Allowing bigger restrictors to R5 cars was one of the biggest fails. Everywhere...


UK Rallying in a nutshell........We just don't help ourselves at all.....

[Steve Boyd]

Just think back to when R5 cars were introduced. It took years before anybody in the UK ran one - even though they were encouraged by the BRC organisers. What else would you as a governing body have done to encourage them?

There were huge outcries when cars like Andy Burton's and Kim Mather's were outlawed. As a governing body, how would you write the regulations to stop the use of oversized restrictors on R5/Rally2 cars without banning lots of other "home brewed" cars?

You might not like it as spectators but the sport is about what the competitors want and if they want to run Mk2 Escorts with Millington engines or R5 cars with WRC sized restrictors then why should they be stopped?

[PLuto]

Just think back to when R5 cars were introduced. It took years before anybody in the UK ran one - even though they were encouraged by the BRC organisers. What else would you as a governing body have done to encourage them?

There were huge outcries when cars like Andy Burton's and Kim Mather's were outlawed. As a governing body, how would you write the regulations to stop the use of oversized restrictors on R5/Rally2 cars without banning lots of other "home brewed" cars?

You might not like it as spectators but the sport is about what the competitors want and if they want to run Mk2 Escorts with Millington engines or R5 cars with WRC sized restrictors then why should they be stopped?

And because everybody has same thoughts like you, UK rallysport is where it is...

[Steve Boyd]

And because everybody has same thoughts like you, UK rallysport is where it is...
I didn't say that was my opinion. I just asked the questions.
UK Rallysport is where it is because that's what the competitors want. They're the ones who are paying for it so they make the decision.

[AndyRAC]

UK Rallysport is where it is because that's what the competitors want. They're the ones who are paying for it so they make the decision.

I think this is the crux of the matter........

The ones with the money and cars, don't want to do the BRC.......

[Fast Eddie WRC]

UK national events run to UK rules and these allow the bigger restrictors that WRC cars have, so there's nothing to stop you from putting the bigger restrictor on a Rally2 or R5 car. When R5 cars were first introduced nobody in the UK ran them as old WRC cars were cheaper and quicker. Those who wanted to run the newer R5 cars, when they became available second hand, needed to fit the bigger restrictors to be competitive. If you were to restrict entries on UK events to cars complying with their FIA homologation you'd decimate the entries because very few cars in the UK run to their homologated specification.

I understand this 10 years ago when R5's first came out. But what about now when the majority are using them ? Surely the power of a homologated R5/ Rally2 car should be the standard for UK events and other older cars have their power restricted instead?

[Steve Boyd]

I understand this 10 years ago when R5's first came out. But what about now when the majority are using them ? Surely the power of a homologated R5/ Rally2 car should be the standard for UK events and other older cars have their power restricted instead?
Telling people with perfectly good cars that they enjoy driving that they have to spend a load of money to make them slower sounds like a good way of pushing people out of rallying to me.

[PLuto]

Telling people with perfectly good cars that they enjoy driving that they have to spend a load of money to make them slower sounds like a good way of pushing people out of rallying to me.

To make the cars slower doesnt cost load of money. It is exactly opposite - as these cars were build for current R5 rules, any other change (like bigger restrictor) makes them more powerful, but also less reliable as parts were designed for exact power. So with bigger restrictor you are paying more money to keep the car running on the equal quality...

[HKSjbg]

Official BRC highlights of Ceredigion:

https://youtu.be/gh4Gkhzk9zE?si=O3dp0XPkThWUOszO

I’m getting more and more impressed with the quality of their event coverage, just a shame the (BRC) entry was so poor :(

[Steve Boyd]

other older cars have their power restricted instead?

To make the cars slower doesnt cost load of money. It is exactly opposite - as these cars were build for current R5 rules, any other change (like bigger restrictor) makes them more powerful, but also less reliable as parts were designed for exact power. So with bigger restrictor you are paying more money to keep the car running on the equal quality...To comply with Fast Eddy's request, old WRC cars would need new, smaller restrictors and re-mapping. Not cheap!

The BRC only allows cars complying with FIA homologation - look how popular that is. If those rules were applied acrosss UK rallying as a whole it would kill the sport entirely in the UK. You could argue that Rali Ceredigion looked daft with "national" R5+ cars competing against "international" Rally2/R5 cars with less power but without those "national" entries there wouldn't have been an event at all. The same situation will still arise if Rali Ceredigion is in the full ERC, but then we should see that the higher quality of drivers in that championship will be quicker in their lower powered cars than the UK "national" competitors in their R5+ cars.

[HKSjbg]

I still don’t understand why banning the larger restrictors on R5/Rally2 cars on national events has anything to do with older spec WRC cars. Barely anyone is driving them these days and so having your bigger restrictor on your R5 just means on you’re on an equal playing field with other R5+ drivers on national/clubman events.

If they were all using their FIA internationally homologated rally cars without the one thing that makes them running to ‘national’ spec what difference would there be? A flood of people trying to buy late-generation 2.0 litre WRCs?

If you wanted to drive something completely removed from current FIA homologation - WRC 2.0, WRC 1.6, A8, Mk2 with a 2.5 Millington - you still can if you’re that wealthy and enter national events.

[Steve Boyd]

Look at the entry history for UK events. We got here with R5+ cars because without the larger restrictors there wouldn't have been any R5 cars at all. They were allowed under UK national rules and still are. How would you re-write the MSUK technical regulations to outlaw them without banning a lot of other cars? You write a rule that says R5/Rally2 cars have to run to their FIA homologation and I turn up to an event with a Fabia, RHD, 4WD and Rally2 engine with oversized restrictor. I say it's a Fabia built to MSUK technical rules not a Rally2 car (it can't be Rally2, it's RHD) how do you write a regulation that bans that car without outlawing all other self-developed cars?

Don't forget that Rally2/R5 cars run in a different class from R5+ cars.

Anyway, if the new MSUK running order proposals become the rules for next year there might not be any forest rallies left.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/2023/malton/entries.php?type=u

The Stratos is back (hopefully!). Seb Perez entered in the car for the Malton Stages with dad in the Porsche.

[hutchie]

Interesting decisions been made regarding the Scottish Rally Championship and Carlisle Stages Rally. Carlisle Stages Rally is running two events a ~70 mile event which includes two stages Friday night and the ~45 mile Saturday event.

Seemingly SRC tried to include the full ~70 mile event as the SRC round but was met with the minimum 15% objection from entrants. And because the Friday night stages use some of the same road mileage as the Saturday have concluded that you cannot receive championship points if you compete in the full ~70 mile event!

I imagine that's a blow to the organisers who will have lost a significant number of Friday night entries. The championship seems to have gone through the process textbook so not sure if blame can be given but a shame for any SRC entries wanting Friday night action.

edit: However I have also noticed the post I saw outlining this has disappeared so potentially discussions still ongoing.

[AndyRAC]

I honestly despair at some of the people involved in UK rallying.....No wonder it's going nowhere.

[HKSjbg]

Look at the entry history for UK events. We got here with R5+ cars because without the larger restrictors there wouldn't have been any R5 cars at all. They were allowed under UK national rules and still are. How would you re-write the MSUK technical regulations to outlaw them without banning a lot of other cars? You write a rule that says R5/Rally2 cars have to run to their FIA homologation and I turn up to an event with a Fabia, RHD, 4WD and Rally2 engine with oversized restrictor. I say it's a Fabia built to MSUK technical rules not a Rally2 car (it can't be Rally2, it's RHD) how do you write a regulation that bans that car without outlawing all other self-developed cars?

Don't forget that Rally2/R5 cars run in a different class from R5+ cars.

Anyway, if the new MSUK running order proposals become the rules for next year there might not be any forest rallies left.

Well why can’t it be as simple as any bona-fide Rally2 car must run the standard restrictor size? How many self-developed rally cars are there fitting that description in the UK? The closest thing I can think of (and so far there has only been one example ever running on a single event of I’m not mistaken) is the TEG-Sport Skodaru. A car which nobody will argue is just an R5 car with some tinkering, it’s got a ruddy 2.0 Subaru WRC engine.

I fear I’m still missing the point, but I’m quite dense so please bear with me :D

What’s this on running order proposals and why would it have such a drastic effect on forestry rallies?

[Steve Boyd]

Any car running in a class for R5/Rally2 cars has to be in accordance with it's homologation and run the standard restrictor. This is a requirement for the BRC.

For events that have an "open" 4WD turbo class, outside the BRC, MSUK regulations apply. This is often an additional class to a class for R5/Rally2 cars running as homologated. MSUK regulations permit turbocharged or supercharged engines up to 2000cc to have a 34mm restrictor. This "open" 4WD turbo class includes older WRC cars and anything else that complies with the MSUK rules. The MSUK rules for modifying a 2WD car to 4WD include the FIA bulkhead and floor drawings so the bodyshell of anything like the Skodaru will end up looking very similar to the bodyshell of an R5 car. Once you get to that point, if you want to compete in the open class it's easier to get an old R5 car and put the running gear that you want in it. If that running gear is the original engine with a 34mm restrictor, that's within the rules and there are a few of them in the BTRDA championship. The difficulty with saying R5 cars have to be as homologated is that if I turn up with a 1600cc Turbo 4WD Felicia that I say I've built to MSUK rules and therefore fitted a 34mm restrictor. How do you stop me from running it. I'll say it isn't an R5 car because I've built it, and anyway it's right hand drive.

Regarding the running order change. Most BTRDA events run the 2WD cars first on the road with the slowest cars first. After the fastest 2WD car there's a gap of 5 to 10 minutes before the 4WD cars which run fastest first. This has been the practice for a few years. MSUK have decided that from January 1st the first group can only include cars up to 1400cc and Category 1 historic cars and they must run fastest first. All other cars will then follow after a gap, again fastest first. This will raise a number of issues. What if the historic field includes an 850cc Mini. That's probably going tho be the last of the first group. The next car on the road could be a WRC, R5+, or Rally2 car. The gap between them can't be more than 10 minutes. So stages have to be kept short so that the Mini isn't caught. How's that going to impact event planning? The BTRDA championship has a couple of historic classes with cars like the Avenger, Sunbeam, Mexico. These will currently be running between 1/3 and 1/2 way down the field after the smaller, less powerful cars. With the new rules they'll be last on the road. How's that going to impact entries?

[archie106]

Personally I liked the running order that used to be used on the Dukeries (and I'm sure on other events as well) where the field was split into 3: 1400s and slow historics, all other 2WD cars, then 4WD, with each group running fastest first. I know the Dukeries always used fairly short stages, but it seemed to work quite well from a spectators standpoint.

[Steve Boyd]

Personally I liked the running order that used to be used on the Dukeries (and I'm sure on other events as well) where the field was split into 3: 1400s and slow historics, all other 2WD cars, then 4WD, with each group running fastest first. I know the Dukeries always used fairly short stages, but it seemed to work quite well from a spectators standpoint.
The irony here is that MSUK has stated that the changes are to make it better for spectators.

[Sal yet again]

Fourmaux now on the Trackrod entry list however the numbers are in the "supporting" Historics and BTRDA rounds rather than the BRC as per usual.

[Sal yet again]

A temporary "halt" to the running order proposals for 2024 has been agreed. Will be interesting to see what developments will now occur.

[HKSjbg]

Fourmaux now on the Trackrod entry list however the numbers are in the "supporting" Historics and BTRDA rounds rather than the BRC as per usual.

The Historic Cup and the Trackrod Forest Stages usually have strong enough entries all on their own that they could run as two mutually-exclusive rallies to give us a 140/160km ‘International’ Rally Yorkshire.

Would the loss of the pitiful few extra well-heeled gentleman drivers who aren’t interested in that length of rally be outweighed by more international drivers being tempted to do a proper rally?

[Steve Boyd]

The Historic Cup and the Trackrod Forest Stages usually have strong enough entries all on their own that they could run as two mutually-exclusive rallies to give us a 140/160km ‘International’ Rally Yorkshire.

Would the loss of the pitiful few extra well-heeled gentleman drivers who aren’t interested in that length of rally be outweighed by more international drivers being tempted to do a proper rally?In order to get that mileage you'd need to double-run the stages - there's nothing significant available in Yorkshire that isn't already being used on the event, and Dalby is already being used twice. The double useage might put a few off. You then have to ask where these international entries are coming from. If your proposed event was a round of the ERT or some European national championships, then you might get a few foreign entries, but without that I doubt you'd get any.

[AndyRAC]

Three Shires Stages around the roads of the Malvern Hills (Ledbury & Eastnor).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oliver Solberg enters the RAC Rally !!

https://dirtfish.com/rally/oliver-solberg-enters-this-years-rac-rally/

[archie106]

Will be very interesting to see how he does, he surely has to be favourite for the win, but can he keep it on the road?

Also, I imagine its the first rally he has done in a while without a recce, and with the number of very experienced crews entered, his lack of experience in Kielder and Scotland might make it tighter at the top of the times.

[Sal yet again]

Was interesting last time around when everyone started throwing it off the road towards the end and Ryan C came through to win. Will be a slightly different experience for Oscar in managing his pace rather than being on it from the get go as much although even the Albert is more of a sprint now in real terms than it used to be.

[HKSjbg]

A 574km sprint? Longer than it ever has been in 15 editions? What do you mean exactly?