2023 WRC News & Rumours

[becher]

It's a world championship because it's the top level in it's category. What you guys seem to be looking for is a world tour. Killing of the classics to run an event in countries where the manufacturers have zero marketing interest is rather silly.

[cali]

It's a world championship because it's the top level in it's category. What you guys seem to be looking for is a world tour. Killing of the classics to run an event in countries where the manufacturers have zero marketing interest is rather silly.Tell me more about Ford's or Toyota's marketing interests in US

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[becher]

Tell me more about Ford's or Toyota's marketing interests in US

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Hardly any with models aimed at the european market, that plenty in the U.S. wouldn't even recognize as a Toyota or Ford (might have changed a bit in the Ford vase with the Puma but I don't know).

[cali]

Hardly any with models aimed at the european market, that plenty in the U.S. wouldn't even recognize as a Toyota or Ford (might have changed a bit in the Ford vase with the Puma but I don't know).You think that I'm a buyer of a Puma or Yaris bcs they are in rallying and I'm a rally fan? It's about brand awareness and being "on the picture". By that logic looking at our traffic in Estonia Mercedes is participating in F1 with their V-klasse model hehe.

But nice arguement, I feel like this is more emotional question to you, rather than rational.

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[becher]

You think that I'm a buyer of a Puma or Yaris bcs they are in rallying and I'm a rally fan? It's about brand awareness and being "on the picture". By that logic looking at our traffic in Estonia Mercedes is participating in F1 with their V-klasse model hehe.

But nice arguement, I feel like this is more emotional question to you, rather than rational.

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You are right, it is about brand awareness, but for brand awareness you need the people to be aware of your brand (and what it is doing). I doubt a rally in the U.S. would contribute anything there.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249375/us-market-share-of-selected-automobile-manufacturers/

Toyota 2nd
Ford 3rd
Hyundai 5th

I think thats a good building block "awareness" wise to start from

[AnttiL]

It's a world championship because it's the top level in it's category. What you guys seem to be looking for is a world tour. Killing of the classics to run an event in countries where the manufacturers have zero marketing interest is rather silly.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-teams-back-the-prospect-of-a-usa-round/

"the manufacturers are keen to find a way to the USA and a car market which sold close to three million motors in 2022."

[Franky]

I understand that the US is a big market. But my question in the rally is more from the marketing side. How much promotion would the event need to be even visible enough to generate a sufficient amount of media engagement (social and mainstream)?

Where does rallying rank in the States among all the different motorsport categories?

[flat_right]

Tänak confirmed to Estonian media that they will do a smaller tarmac rally before Croatia. It was discussed here but haven't seen some official confirmation. And seems like as a 0 car.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/79657-rallye-des-ardennes-2023/

[Gregor-y]

A US rally should still be a good draw even without the availability of similar cars. There's the off-road fan base in any rural area and general race/rally fans would be willing to travel. Local busimesses will want visitors.

An event in Tennessee would have to be built from the ground up as there's no rally now but it would allow Dirtfish and the city to make anything they want. I'd be most interested to see how volunteers are handled.

[SubaruNorway]

Fans in America are very passionate so no need to worry about it not getting enough reach i think.
https://youtu.be/RwmW9NYtXMs

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mexico-fighting-usa-for-2024-calendar-slot/

Not that we didn't know before (that Mexico's deal was for one year), but Chile has signed a multiple-year deal with the promoter, so we'll (also) be there in 2024.

[sinepikohv]

If my Finnish is good enough then it's claimed by Ilta-Sanomat that Toyota pays 500k EUR to Ogier for one rally plus bonuses. Not bad for a "retiree" :D

[Essaj]

If my Finnish is good enough then it's claimed by Ilta-Sanomat that Toyota pays 500k EUR to Ogier for one rally plus bonuses. Not bad for a "retiree" :D

That was just speculative take from interview with Markku Alen.

[becher]

That was just speculative take from interview with Markku Alen.

Still iI think he was rumored to be on 7 million, which for a full season would roughly be half a million per event, so could be in the ball park.

[Managarium]

So, if we read this, can we conclude that Croatia Rally is in 2024 calendar?

https://i.postimg.cc/pr2gd6Yx/Snimka-zaslona-2023-03-30-153259.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[jcevc]

So, if we read this, can we conclude that Croatia Rally is in 2024 calendar?

https://i.postimg.cc/pr2gd6Yx/Snimka-zaslona-2023-03-30-153259.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

AFAIK Croatia Rally has valid agreement also for WRC 2024 edition.

[AnttiL]

Stage titles need to be translated into English in the future

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/04/01/fia-requests-wrc-stage-titles-translated-into-english/

[Franky]

Stage titles need to be translated into English in the future

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/04/01/fia-requests-wrc-stage-titles-translated-into-english/

The All Live commentators would love it, if it would be true :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen crashed in the Algarve today...
https://twitter.com/vasco__moura/status/1642088501544886272?s=20

[seb_sh]

Stage titles need to be translated into English in the future

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/04/01/fia-requests-wrc-stage-titles-translated-into-english/

Good one ;)

[matija_1988]

Stage titles need to be translated into English in the future

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/04/01/fia-requests-wrc-stage-titles-translated-into-english/

Translate this please....
Pećurkovo Brdo - Mrežnički Novaki
Krašić - Vrškovac
Trakošćan - Vrbno
And finally, an easy one
Dobro mi došel prijatelj :)

[jcevc]

Translate this please....
Pećurkovo Brdo - Mrežnički Novaki
Krašić - Vrškovac
Trakošćan - Vrbno
And finally, an easy one
Dobro mi došel prijatelj :)

Pechurek's Hill - Nets Novacs for example :P

[wyler]

ok news that a bunch of you were eager to have! :D

Serderidis to retire from wrc at the end of the season.

source: italian media fb

[TypeR]

ok news that a bunch of you were eager to have! :D

Serderidis to retire from wrc at the end of the season.

source: italian media fb
and if now Mikkelsen gets some wrc seat, then there wouldn't be anymore problems to argue :D

[AndersX]

ok news that a bunch of you were eager to have! :D
Serderidis to retire from wrc at the end of the season.
source: italian media fb

I would think this is some kind of April 1 joke, just to mess with those fans who were questioning all the Mr.S camaping in general. How can one retire if never been drafted and employed? 😁

[wyler]

I would think this is some kind of April 1 joke, just to mess with those fans who were questioning all the Mr.S camaping in general. How can one retire if never been drafted and employed? ��

he's just announced that will do regional rally and no more wrc.
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=744961917280494&set=a.606399067803447

[NOT]

good riddance to that old sack of fat... he was the biggest disgrace the sport ever had... and that is quite the achievement gven we had "people" like barrat and nombre....

[Kenneth]

Who hurt you so badly? Ever think of a therapist?

[rallyfiend]

Who hurt you so badly? Ever think of a therapist?

I suspect NOT is both professionally unsuccessful and economically poor on top of a being a shit driver. No wonder he hates on Jourdan... Many people need to look inward to their problems....

[Rallyper]

I suspect NOT is both professionally unsuccessful and economically poor on top of a being a shit driver. No wonder he hates on Jourdan... Many people need to look inward to their problems....

Nothing of that.
I don´t know NOT personally, but he represents one side of the palette of fans. The other side are those who cherish everything said about drivers, cars, photos, without any questioning. Both sides are needed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/serderidis-retiring-is-a-huge-blow-to-the-wrc/

[AndyRAC]

Nothing of that.
I don´t know NOT personally, but he represents one side of the palette of fans. The other side are those who cherish everything said about drivers, cars, photos, without any questioning. Both sides are needed.

Yes - and it's possible to be both. Hugely supportive of drivers, teams, the sport as a whole - but also be critical when needed.

[TypeR]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/serderidis-retiring-is-a-huge-blow-to-the-wrc/

That's it:
,,If you could, you would, wouldn’t you?''

[Jarek Z]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/serderidis-retiring-is-a-huge-blow-to-the-wrc/

Huge blow to the WRC? Huge blow may have been when McRae or Auriol or Loeb left, or when Mitsubishi or Seat or Skoda pulled out, but not now, come on :D

[ouvreur]

Those who hang on every word published by 'rally journalists' who function more as an extension of teams' and drivers' PR departments are bad enough, we can all laugh at them, but I kind of understand how they can be taken in by it. Unless you're involved in some capacity, or spend a bit of time digging into stories, unfortunately the majority of what you can see and hear is just PR bullshit.

Intensely hating on a guy for doing something he loves - and spending an absolute truckload of cash to do so, funding young drivers and keeping a WRC team alive in the process... this I don't understand at all. And I don't think you need to know anything about rallying to see how unnecessary it is.

So many people go their whole lives wishing to do what Serderidis is doing. He's put more back into the sport this year alone than 99% of people could manage in ten lifetimes. Yes, he's slow. Yes, other people would be faster - quite a lot faster. But he doesn't have aspirations to be a world champion. He doesn't post deluded nonsense all over social media, as many others do. Just like the Gus Greensmiths and Lorenzo Bertellis of this world, he's not stealing a seat from anyone 'more deserving', quite the opposite. He's just an old guy living his dream.

To compare him to Paulo Nobre or Natalie Barrett is really unfair - neither of those have put a cent towards any young drivers from their home countries. And unlike Barrett, he's never melted an exhaust manifold through being off the throttle for so long while using anti-lag :laugh:

[Jarek Z]

To compare him to Paulo Nobre or Natalie Barrett is really unfair - neither of those have put a cent towards any young drivers from their home countries.

I don't know if Paulo Nobre has supported any young drivers, but at least he was trying to fight on the stages. Try to watch this video without smiling :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofDb2F-qNWw

[AndersX]

Huge blow to the WRC? Huge blow may have been when McRae or Auriol or Loeb left, or when Mitsubishi or Seat or Skoda pulled out, but not now, come on :D

Yes, i was reading that long and poetical piece of writing work and could not get where the h.... the blow comes from?! Am i missing smth here?

[focus206]

And unlike Barrett, he's never melted an inlet manifold through being off the throttle for so long while using anti-lag :laugh:

Sorry for the OT but I've never heard this story, actually I've never considered the possibility of damaging something by being off the throttle for too long! But how could it damage the inlet manifold? Shouldn't it be the exhaust manifold the one put in a critical state by antilag?

[ouvreur]

Sorry for the OT but I've never heard this story, actually I've never considered the possibility of damaging something by being off the throttle for too long! But how could it damage the inlet manifold? Shouldn't it be the exhaust manifold the one put in a critical state by antilag?

That's my error... it was indeed the exhaust manifold!

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-does-rally-argentina-stand-with-wrc/

As expected, with Chile & North America/Mexico next year, no Rally Argentina for 2024 unfortunately.

[er88]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-does-rally-argentina-stand-with-wrc/

As expected, with Chile & North America/Mexico next year, no Rally Argentina for 2024 unfortunately.Three of those events should be in the calendar. I'd go as far as saying all 4. Real shame if no Mexico or Argentina. Half the calendar should be outside Europe

[ouvreur]

Three of those events should be in the calendar. I'd go as far as saying all 4. Real shame if no Mexico or Argentina. Half the calendar should be outside Europe

Cool. Who's paying the bill?

[ouvreur]

Not content with having the fastest car, Toyota want brownie points for implementing a synthetic noise system before Hyundai and M-Sport... quote Tom Fowler...

“So it’s actually fitted to the car already now. We’re running it, we have been for several rallies, and if you want my slightly controversial take on it it’s that I think everyone should have it already,” Fowler added.

“And if you can’t develop a sound to come out from your car but you can develop three aero jokers in the same time period, I think your priorities are slightly skewed.”

I find myself increasingly disliking Mr Fowler's tendency to throw shade at Toyota's rivals. Isn't it enough for him to be the technical director of the dominant force in the WRC? Maybe the Hyundai victories in Finland and Japan last year traumatised him.

[AndyRAC]

Cool. Who's paying the bill?

Exactly!! It's fine wanting all these new events, but who is paying? With only 2.5 Manufacturers, that's nowhere near enough to have 14-16 rounds a season. 'Cut your cloth accordingly', and wait until things improve; if they ever do. The WEC only has 7 rounds. It's not F1 which has the finances to go here, there, and everywhere.....

I recall the mid early/ mid 00s, when we had 16 rounds - it couldn't continue...and manufacturers soon pulled the plug. Rallying simply doesn't produce the finances for this.

[seb_sh]

Not content with having the fastest car, Toyota want brownie points for implementing a synthetic noise system before Hyundai and M-Sport... quote Tom Fowler...

“So it’s actually fitted to the car already now. We’re running it, we have been for several rallies, and if you want my slightly controversial take on it it’s that I think everyone should have it already,” Fowler added.

“And if you can’t develop a sound to come out from your car but you can develop three aero jokers in the same time period, I think your priorities are slightly skewed.”

I find myself increasingly disliking Mr Fowler's tendency to throw shade at Toyota's rivals. Isn't it enough for him to be the technical director of the dominant force in the WRC? Maybe the Hyundai victories in Finland and Japan last year traumatised him.

I don't mind, just hope Cyril replies and we can get some banter between team principals going :D

[mousti]

No words for this..

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/craig-breen-passes-away-in-testing-accident/

RIP Craig..

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[cosmin_sb]

nooo, tell me that it is a joke 😭😭

[dimviii]

another fatal accident in Spain....
https://twitter.com/elcomerciodigit/status/1647265608055046144

[NOT]

If only the whole forest was covered in bubble wrap.... Lets put the organisers in jail

[becher]

another fatal accident in Spain....
https://twitter.com/elcomerciodigit/status/1647265608055046144
Wait both?

[flat_right]

If only the whole forest was covered in bubble wrap.... Lets put the organisers in jail

NOT is the purest example why mothers shouldn’t be allowed smoking while they are pregnant.

[dimviii]

Wait both?

yes unfortunately...

[becher]

yes unfortunately...

Oh man.....

[doubled1978]

That picture isn’t pretty at all. That’s a massive accident.
RIP lads…

[Rallyper]

Speed kills. It must go down. Tyres like F1 isn´t necessary on tarmac rallies.

[becher]

Speed kills. It must go down. Tyres like F1 isn´t necessary on tarmac rallies.

They already run grooved tyres that are narrower than most sporty roadcars, so this side of mandating a tractor spec compound there isn't much to do.

[seb_sh]

nasty crash, RIP

what a week...

[Kenneth]

another fatal accident in Spain....
https://twitter.com/elcomerciodigit/status/1647265608055046144

That unfortunately look like not very good rollcage... Rip, what a sad week for rally

[Managarium]

Today Ive spoken with a one gentelman from organisation board of Croatia Rally.

He told me that FIA has reserved a slot in 2024. calendar for Croatia. So if croats want next year rally, they have to just conforme it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The FIA won’t hesitate in taking action to improve safety in the World Rally Championship should learnings emerge from a thorough investigation into Craig Breen’s fatal accident.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-wont-hesitate-if-improvements-to-wrc-safety-can-be-made/10460308/

[PLuto]

The FIA won’t hesitate in taking action to improve safety in the World Rally Championship should learnings emerge from a thorough investigation into Craig Breen’s fatal accident.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-wont-hesitate-if-improvements-to-wrc-safety-can-be-made/10460308/

This is nothing special. They are investigating every bigger accident, not only fatal. Because only from these data you can learn to try to avoid similar issues in the future. But it will never be 100 % safe. And sometimes there are not so many things which can be done better...

[Rallyper]

I remember investigating an Offshore boat racing fatal accident about 15 yrs ago. Boat went around and navigator had prop injuries in head.
We searched for improvements, but couldn´t find any proper solutions. The investigation result was that nothing can avoid such accidents. It´s just unluck...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is nothing special. They are investigating every bigger accident, not only fatal. Because only from these data you can learn to try to avoid similar issues in the future. But it will never be 100 % safe. And sometimes there are not so many things which can be done better...

A fatal accident to a WRC1 driver is pretty special as it's so rare and such big news, even outside rallying. I'm sure they will do everything they can to find a possible solution, even if only to reduce the chances of such a penetration happening again.

[ouvreur]

A fatal accident to a WRC1 driver is pretty special as it's so rare and such big news, even outside rallying. I'm sure they will do everything they can to find a possible solution, even if only to reduce the chances of such a penetration happening again.

There's literally nothing 'special' about what Andrew Wheatley has said in that article. He's being pragmatic and rational. Yes, they'll do all they can to prevent a similar fatality from happening again. Yes, if they can reduce the risk, they will. But with all that said, there are some types of risk for which the only possible mitigation is 'don't get in a rally car', and it will never be 100% safe.

[Rallyper]

There's literally nothing 'special' about what Andrew Wheatley has said in that article. He's being pragmatic and rational. Yes, they'll do all they can to prevent a similar fatality from happening again. Yes, if they can reduce the risk, they will. But with all that said, there are some types of risk for which the only possible mitigation is 'don't get in a rally car', and it will never be 100% safe.

Agree 100%. That could´ve been the result for our investigation mentioned above. But that´s not a reasonable advice or outcome from an investigation.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There's literally nothing 'special' about what Andrew Wheatley has said in that article. He's being pragmatic and rational. Yes, they'll do all they can to prevent a similar fatality from happening again. Yes, if they can reduce the risk, they will. But with all that said, there are some types of risk for which the only possible mitigation is 'don't get in a rally car', and it will never be 100% safe.

No-one but you said anything about the comments by Wheatley being anything 'special'.

But the fatal accident of a WRC1 driver is... and the surrounding publicity will mean the investigation outcome will need to be very clear to everyone.

In these circumstances, just coming out and saying oh it was just unlucky, wont cut it.

[Eli]

As someone here previously mentioned Croatia Rally was offered a slot in 2024, and now apparently they're working on a multi-year deal: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/croatia-set-for-2024-wrc-return-as-it-eyes-new-multi-year-deal/10461007/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally GB N.Ireland bid deadline extended and also talks with Rally Ireland..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-rally-uk-2024-bid-deadline-extended/10460550/

[rallyfiend]

This is nothing special. They are investigating every bigger accident, not only fatal. Because only from these data you can learn to try to avoid similar issues in the future. But it will never be 100 % safe. And sometimes there are not so many things which can be done better...

I'd be pretty certain the FIA 'investigation' will just involve reading the Croatian Police report....

[cali]

I'd be pretty certain the FIA 'investigation' will just involve reading the Croatian Police report....Logical as Katsuta hasn't been on the level so far this season.

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[Eli]

So apparently a manufacturer might join the WRC in the near future but who exactly and when is less known at this moment in time, however the promoter & the WRC are talking to 3 of them about joining in: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-has-identified-three-car-manufacturer-options-for-the-future/10464046/

[Myrvold]

While I understand that if a manufacturer ends up 6th out of 6 time and again, they will pull out.

I don't get why 4 is the ideal number if they could get 5...

[Rallyest]

While I understand that if a manufacturer ends up 6th out of 6 time and again, they will pull out.

I don't get why 4 is the ideal number if they could get 5...

My guess is since at the moment we only have 4 full time top drivers who can deliver wins and constant podiums, then lets say the 5th manufacturer who doesnt get the top driver will be the odd one out and losing every rally, and will probably pull the plug pretty quickly. But that is just my thoughts

[rallyfiend]

I think it's more about the ability to deliver value to more than 4 manufacturers.

There is only so much airtime and media interest to generate return on investment.

As well as that fact that someone always has to come 4th. 5th is worse....

[trykmann]

FIA is talking about the 4 manufacturers, because it is not able to get larger number. After having one more manufacturer they can claim how well they have managed all of it

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[Rallyest]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc/taka-aims-for-portuguese-podium/?fbclid=IwAR0Wq5HeP-qla9TtjoOt2t_klUa3UL4wQqRCM7_r-5MOnpF6Q-nq3b2Su58

I have nothing against the guy, he is very friendly and great driver, but i mean, come on shouldnt he have learned by now to be careful with his Podium aims... then again Portugal is a tough gravel rally, lets see how many cars make it to the end.

[Kras]

He can realistically aim for being the third fastest Toyota in Portugal

[Andre Oliveira]

So apparently a manufacturer might join the WRC in the near future but who exactly and when is less known at this moment in time, however the promoter & the WRC are talking to 3 of them about joining in: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-has-identified-three-car-manufacturer-options-for-the-future/10464046/

https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344790621_643982917742643_3667778265796771016_n.jp g?stp=dst-webp_e15_q70_s1180x1980_tt1_u&efg=eyJ1cmxnZW4iOiJ1cmxnZW5fZnJvbV91cmwifQ&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=jTBlUR7efeAAX8tbj_5&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&oh=00_AfC4WMON95a5chCu_dWRxVk4ENkXYou2UDCe6RNR8r8x MA&oe=6479CA8D

[EstWRC]

haha, nice one Thierry!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont think it's a joke... He's clearly worried Hyundai aren't gonna stick around...

[lmmjvss]

Correct me if Im wrong, but it looks theres no amount of marketing that could be put into WRC that would result in more manufacturers, sponsors or fans simply because Rallying is an european sport where the athletes are all grown up adults - due to the natural dangers of the sport - so theres no childish drama and futile gossip on social media around the sport. Its not an american circus, its just a grown up sport not played on a "stadium" (or something like this). Its basically not possible to "grow" a sport like this in modern society.

[Rallyper]

Correct me if Im wrong, but it looks theres no amount of marketing that could be put into WRC that would result in more manufacturers, sponsors or fans simply because Rallying is an european sport where the athletes are all grown up adults - due to the natural dangers of the sport - so theres no childish drama and futile gossip on social media around the sport. Its not an american circus, its just a grown up sport not played on a "stadium" (or something like this). Its basically not possible to "grow" a sport like this in modern society.

However manufacturers need to sell fancy sporty cars without hallmark being an old mans car...
Rallying is the ultimate recognition it isn´t.

[rallyfiend]

I dont think it's a joke... He's clearly worried Hyundai aren't gonna stick around...

BIt stupid to make public statements like that then, isn't? So that makes Thierry a joke.

[AnttiL]

While I understand that if a manufacturer ends up 6th out of 6 time and again, they will pull out.

I don't get why 4 is the ideal number if they could get 5...

It gets harder to promote every team enough with more than four. One hour of footage split between

3 teams = 20 min each
4 teams = 15 min each
5 teams = 12 min each
6 teams = 10 min each

But if there is less than three it doesn’t make enough competition.

[J4MIE]

However manufacturers need to sell fancy sporty cars without hallmark being an old mans car...
Rallying is the ultimate recognition it isn´t.

But one of the issues is emissions targets for manufacturers, so if you have a sporty version of a model every other model you sell has to be reduced to compensate. It will reach a point where its just too difficult to do/justify, hence Ford have ditched a new RS (I’m sure there are other examples too).

[mknight]

Basically every large volume EV has a sports model.
VW - Cupra Eborn, Enyaq RS, ID 4 GTX
BMW - IX M60, i4 M50
Mercedes - AMG versions of EQE etc
Kia/Hyundai - EV6 GT is here, Ioniq 5 N coming
Tesla - performance and plaid versions of all models

So major EV marketing is the same as for petrol cars... "Look at our fast/powerfull/cool car ".
NOT "look at how efficient it is".

I have been saying this for last 4+ years against the prevailing opinion here...

Now if only WRC could be used to promote these....again the prevailing opinion here is that it is impossible. Well 3 years ago hybrid "was never going to work in WRC".

[djip]

Basically every large volume EV has a sports model.
VW - Cupra Eborn, Enyaq RS, ID 4 GTX
BMW - IX M60, i4 M50
Mercedes - AMG versions of EQE etc
Kia/Hyundai - EV6 GT is here, Ioniq 5 N coming
Tesla - performance and plaid versions of all models

So major EV marketing is the same as for petrol cars... "Look at our fast/powerfull/cool car ".
NOT "look at how efficient it is".

I have been saying this for last 4+ years against the prevailing opinion here...

Now if only WRC could be used to promote these....again the prevailing opinion here is that it is impossible. Well 3 years ago hybrid "was never going to work in WRC".

I can't agree more - it makes at least 2 of us with that opinion !
Yes full EVs seem impossible to work in rallying, but at the same time if you want to catch manufacturers interest this is the way to go. It would be a real testimony for manufacturers to showcase EV in everyday roads, harsh conditions, with performance and "real" km range (nobody pays attention to the numbers claimed on whatever test conditions, which need to be reduced by half in real life).
We may need to tweek the events format and trust me - i am not happy with that, I am old enough to have found memories of a 5 days Monte Carlo covering all of France's Alps. But sport has to evolve to remain relevant. i hate the cloverleaf format but it had to be (i) to contain spectators, (ii) avoid sending armies of service vehicles in the countryside and (ii) enable the service park PR activity. Maybe it's now time for the next move ...

[Rallyper]

But one of the issues is emissions targets for manufacturers, so if you have a sporty version of a model every other model you sell has to be reduced to compensate. It will reach a point where its just too difficult to do/justify, hence Ford have ditched a new RS (I’m sure there are other examples too).

No problem. You only need to sell lookalike models. Could be hybrids as well.

[AnttiL]

I can't agree more - it makes at least 2 of us with that opinion !
Yes full EVs seem impossible to work in rallying, but at the same time if you want to catch manufacturers interest this is the way to go. It would be a real testimony for manufacturers to showcase EV in everyday roads, harsh conditions, with performance and "real" km range (nobody pays attention to the numbers claimed on whatever test conditions, which need to be reduced by half in real life).
We may need to tweek the events format and trust me - i am not happy with that, I am old enough to have found memories of a 5 days Monte Carlo covering all of France's Alps. But sport has to evolve to remain relevant. i hate the cloverleaf format but it had to be (i) to contain spectators, (ii) avoid sending armies of service vehicles in the countryside and (ii) enable the service park PR activity. Maybe it's now time for the next move ...

Even the fuel cars need refueling between service points, so charging EV's should not be a problem.

[mknight]

I don't agree that it looks impossible for EVs to work in rallying. Baumschlager ran rallies in EV Fabia with zero changes to their schedule.

So it can work just fine with minimal itenary changes. Fast charging truck after 1-2 stages that charges only for short period for 5-10 min per car should be possible for the 10 top cars running.

The only real issue is the need for sound due to safety and spectating (throttle input). Solution is to set a rule dictating the sound levels in various situation and introduce a common sound system.

[TypeR]

Change ICE to meat, EV to soy, taste to sound and we get world saving EVegan-rally car..
I would personally quit watching wrc, if the go all electric microwaves.

They can't even put reporters to every stage end and you imagine to have big charging trucks at the end of every other stage..? So eco friendly, right..

[er88]

I don't agree that it looks impossible for EVs to work in rallying. Baumschlager ran rallies in EV Fabia with zero changes to their schedule.

So it can work just fine with minimal itenary changes. Fast charging truck after 1-2 stages that charges only for short period for 5-10 min per car should be possible for the 10 top cars running.

The only real issue is the need for sound due to safety and spectating (throttle input). Solution is to set a rule dictating the sound levels in various situation and introduce a common sound system.So you'd go stageside to watch these purring washing machines?!

[typhoon]

So you'd go stageside to watch these purring washing machines?!

If you apply Balance for Performance, it would be only Renault or Stellantis coming with EV cars.

For example, Toyota is the car manufacturer that is pushing the most on Hydrogen, which make as much noise as an ICE car, Ford-MSport would be continuing with Hybrid, etc.

I still believe that BoP is the solution, even though Xavier Mestelan Pinon keeps arguing with that, by saying it's not what the manufacturers and the people wants. Just look how great turned to be again the FIA WEC!

[mknight]

So you'd go stageside to watch these purring washing machines?!

On same level:
Instead of watching dinosaur-burning inefficient and stinky glorified steam engines?

Yes, but that's actually besides the point.

These days I watch maybe 3-4 rallies per year in person max one of which is WRC.

Yet I watch some 16-20 rallies a year for at least 30 mins on live vids or youtube. On these quite often I don't even have sound on. Cause after you heard 1-2 cars passing the sounds are basically the same and Rally2 cars have very little sound anyway.

[jonkka]

So you'd go stageside to watch these purring washing machines?!

No, I would not.

[skarderud]

I don't care about this or that sound, its not like a F1 engine from the 70's anyway, or a quattro 5'er.
The most important thing is that the cars is driven slightly more than at 100% attack!

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-invites-drivers-to-share-ideas-on-future-of-the-category/10469998/

Well at least they're starting to see there's an inherent problem with the championship, hopefully it won't be a case of too little too late.

[seb_sh]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-invites-drivers-to-share-ideas-on-future-of-the-category/10469998/

Well at least they're starting to see there's an inherent problem with the championship, hopefully it won't be a case of too little too late.

What I get from Thul's statements: they have no clue what to do.

[Eli]

What I get from Thul's statements: they have no clue what to do.

They'll probably just keep going as is with few modifications and then be surprised when the championship finally dies.

[bomber21]

I do not really know how things changed so much so quickly.

In the beginning of the season, there was enthusiasm and anticipation and we were hearing that many countries want to host a WRC round and it was an almost healthy environment.

What changed so radically after Croatia and everyone says WRC is dying?

To be honest, I also lost my interest recently and I don’t know why…

[dimviii]

because last rally was boring.If the next rally has competition people will not moan.
Of course i am not saying that wrc is ok.

[seb_sh]

This guy says Lindholm to Hyundai to compete with Rally1. https://twitter.com/rallyspynews/status/1658498470934609920

[meh]

This guy says Lindholm to Hyundai to compete with Rally1. https://twitter.com/rallyspynews/status/1658498470934609920

A Twitter account with 3 tweets...

Let's assume, it will be Lindholm. First positive thing is, entire world can enjoy more Reeta's pacenote delivery :D

But where could be the logic behind this? It must be really long-term vision and hope then. And on the other hand, it would be really hard to swallow to guys like Suninen and Mikkelsen.

[AnttiL]

A Twitter account with 3 tweets...

Let's assume, it will be Lindholm. First positive thing is, entire world can enjoy more Reeta's pacenote delivery :D

But where could be the logic behind this? It must be really long-term vision and hope then. And on the other hand, it would be really hard to swallow to guys like Suninen and Mikkelsen.

with one of those tweets knowing that Tänak is testing the Puma two weeks before contract was published. Also the guess about Hyundai lineup seems to match what other people "knew" at the time and what Mikkelsen has mentioned later.

[ouvreur]

with one of those tweets knowing that Tänak is testing the Puma two weeks before contract was published. Also the guess about Hyundai lineup seems to match what other people "knew" at the time and what Mikkelsen has mentioned later.

Yep. The Tänak post was based on the rumour that OT had been seen in Tallinn airport with a helmet bag, and the Hyundai lineup was wrong. I wouldn't bet my life on that Lindholm rumour, even if it does sort of make sense.

[seb_sh]

with one of those tweets knowing that Tänak is testing the Puma two weeks before contract was published. Also the guess about Hyundai lineup seems to match what other people "knew" at the time and what Mikkelsen has mentioned later.

Also the follower list is interesting. Anyway, it's on the internet could be anything.

If true, like meh wrote it's going to be a bitter pill for Mikkelsen and Suninen. On the other hand i guess the idea would be to go with someone new instead of "known quantities".

[mknight]

That's about the only point going for it though. (Lindholm being "new" with unknown future potential).

Everything else seems wrong. He got the title last year due to lots of luck and so far this year he doesn't confirm he has speed or reliability to defend it vs tougher competition.

Even Solberg did multiple rallies in WRC car before getting nominated for points. Putting Lindholm right for point scoring mid season is as big or bigger risk for both sides.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

because last rally was boring.If the next rally has competition people will not moan.
Of course i am not saying that wrc is ok.

This

People are craving constant interest and excitement from their sport and media these days and as soon as it stops they immediately moan or move on.

WRC All Live has a case to answer too. Watching every stage means means many will have no big drama.

Before WRC+ we followed times or listened to rally radio while doing other things and then watched the best bits later on a highlights show. This gave an impression that events were constantly exciting when of course they really weren't.

[Rallyper]

This

People are craving constant interest and excitement from their sport and media these days and as soon as it stops they immediately moan or move on.

WRC All Live has a case to answer too. Watching every stage means means many will have no big drama.

Before WRC+ we followed times or listened to rally radio while doing other things and then watched the best bits later on a highlights show. This gave an impression that events were constantly exciting when of course they really weren't.

But WRC+ have to live up to that fact. Now they are clipping driver who enters a corner just to show 10 secs of wheelspinning at start... Some changes needed...

[AnttiL]

But WRC+ have to live up to that fact. Now they are clipping driver who enters a corner just to show 10 secs of wheelspinning at start... Some changes needed...

so this is really causing the problems of WRC's success? Maybe the problem is that people are not even watching enough the broadcast?

[denkimi]

This guy says Lindholm to Hyundai to compete with Rally1. https://twitter.com/rallyspynews/status/1658498470934609920
That would be a very stupid move by Hyundai, so it could be true.

[Rallyper]

so this is really causing the problems of WRC's success? Maybe the problem is that people are not even watching enough the broadcast?

One of the problems for us hardcores.

[Managarium]

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqFBKkHm/347776528-915614029720072-7900126148917396867-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Sergiow]

Thierry Neuville Never Gives Up! Rally Driver keeps driving despite Crashes and Problems

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uuosSuKhSb0/hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEcCOgCEMoBSFXyq4qpAw4IARUAAIhCGAFwAcABBg==&rs=AOn4CLAM0gURp64pysqo5MUeJ0GYOCjcGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuosSuKhSb0

[Eli]

In a different matter, the 2024 calendar is taking shape with question marks surrounding México, Croatia and Northern Ireland's bid to be included: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-closing-in-on-14-round-2024-calendar/10471097/

[AndyRAC]

Adding more rounds....okay = adding more costs when there are only 2.5 manufacturers.......Just because F1 & MotoGP add more rounds doesn't mean the WRC should.

[kernel_gdi]

In a different matter, the 2024 calendar is taking shape with question marks surrounding México, Croatia and Northern Ireland's bid to be included: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-closing-in-on-14-round-2024-calendar/10471097/

no mention to Spain / RallyRacc. It was supposed to be on rotation so a comeback for 2024?

[fiscorpun]

No idea where to post this but Kalle won a round of the Japanese Formula Drift !! Its one of the most competitive drifting series out there (together with American and Euro MAsters, I suppose). Awesome! (first comment has the time for his runs!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq_YMxB1Ukw&t=2873s

[focus206]

No idea where to post this but Kalle won a round of the Japanese Formula Drift !! Its one of the most competitive drifting series out there (together with American and Euro MAsters, I suppose). Awesome! (first comment has the time for his runs!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq_YMxB1Ukw&t=2873s

Formula Drift Japan is one step below in prestige compared to Formula Drift (USA), Euro Masters and D1 GP (the most prestigious Japanese series). But congrats to Kalle anyway.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Saudi have locked in a mega deal for the calendar... look for this news coming out soon.

[CL16F@n]

In a different matter, the 2024 calendar is taking shape with question marks surrounding México, Croatia and Northern Ireland's bid to be included: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-closing-in-on-14-round-2024-calendar/10471097/

The organizers of Croatia Rally announced that the place in the calendar is not in doubt and that they are working on a multi-year contract.

Also, it is possible that the Croatia Rally will be moved to a new location and that it will be driven along the coast of the Adriatic Sea.

[Kras]

The organizers of Croatia Rally announced that the place in the calendar is not in doubt and that they are working on a multi-year contract.

Also, it is possible that the Croatia Rally will be moved to a new location and that it will be driven along the coast of the Adriatic Sea.

Link please

[Managarium]

I also can't find link, but I,ve read a few days ago that the organizators are willing to put Craotia rally in Istria and maybe in Dalmatia. They alo said that region around city of Opatija is very interesting.

[Eli]

Saudi have locked in a mega deal for the calendar... look for this news coming out soon.

Mega as in secured a 5 year contract with the WRC Promoter to host the final round of the season (until 2028)?

[Jarek Z]

Japanese organizers want sideways action!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-pirelli-is-helping-rally-japan-improve-its-show/?fbclid=IwAR3c1EBpclZ8w5xaA47b2Chj1Vx5-DIyqrYbHjUDCTnDV_tCbqIN1fopKQw

[EstWRC]

Japanese organizers want sideways action!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-pirelli-is-helping-rally-japan-improve-its-show/?fbclid=IwAR3c1EBpclZ8w5xaA47b2Chj1Vx5-DIyqrYbHjUDCTnDV_tCbqIN1fopKQw

Make a gravel rally then not Tokyo drift

[Jarek Z]

Marcus Gronholm crashed already on SS1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqtRrLFsnXU

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/drivers-welcome-opportunity-to-share-ideas-to-improve-the-wrc/10476600/

Open to discuss the future, I hope it actually comes to fruition and I also hope we as fans we'll get a survey like we did back in 2014, it would be nice to know that they actually realize we exist.

[skarderud]

Rovenpära to Hyundai?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid034mufiNt1uV5sCXgiWCw8EV Xghs6VUdd8dXS5kuDBZWdSbtFfs1MXKrUNMrVsKXk2l&id=100064387853951

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[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-in-talks-with-hyundai-for-next-season/

What? I think it’s just to pressure Toyota for bigger salary and bonuses

But if they are serious then even bigger chance for Tänak to Toyota

[meh]

Rovenpära to Hyundai?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid034mufiNt1uV5sCXgiWCw8EV Xghs6VUdd8dXS5kuDBZWdSbtFfs1MXKrUNMrVsKXk2l&id=100064387853951

Link to DirtFish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-in-talks-with-hyundai-for-next-season/

I think this is just Jouhki's way to get the price up. Can not see any logic on reason for the move.

edit1: the only logic could be - if Toyota plans to leave.

edit2: based on that - next year in Hyndai - Rovanperä, Lappi and Suninen and no finns in Finnish-lead team Toyota?

[skarderud]

Link to DirtFish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-in-talks-with-hyundai-for-next-season/

I think this is just Jouhki's way to get the price up. Can not see any logic on reason for the move.Yeah, me too.

It would be ridicolous.

He won't drop places for Neuville eighter.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

However a swap Kalle vs. Ott would be great for the WRC in all.

[TypeR]

https://www.upload.ee/image/15306694/IMG_20230605_133705.jpg

[Hartusvuori]

Of course it's a way to get the salary higher, either way. Just normal.

[focus206]

https://www.upload.ee/image/15306694/IMG_20230605_133705.jpg

Wait, but I thought Neuville was the CEO of Hyundai and decides who drives for the team, no?
How are conspiracy theorists going to fit these two things together? :D

[flat_right]

However a swap Kalle vs. Ott would be great for the WRC in all.

How would this be better for WRC? I can't see any logic behind this. Good thing for WRC was that Ford now has a top driver compared to last year but if you change one really good driver to another, I can't see any benefit in this.

[skarderud]

Wait, but I thought Neuville was the CEO of Hyundai and decides who drives for the team, no?
How are conspiracy theorists going to fit these two things together? :DMaybe its the first sign that Hyundai/new teamleader don't belive Neuville can be world champion?

There, i turned that around:)

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[focus206]

Maybe its the first sign that Hyundai/new teamleader don't belive Neuville can be world champion?

There, i turned that around:)

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

But if that's the case, that means Neuville is not the "boss" who decides what happens in the team, that the propaganda conspiracy theorists suggest... I can't believe it, shocking!

Very probably Kalle will remain in Toyota, but if I were Neuville I'd rather have him in Hyundai. Why would I want the fastest driver to drive the best car and be unbeatable?

[TypeR]

Maybe Abiteboul agreed to put all in for Neuville this year and if it doesn't pay off, then there will be changes. He comes from F1 and tactics are different there.
It's Neuville's and Hyundai's 10th year in team/wrc and they have only managed to win 2 manu titles, which isn't clearly enough..

[focus206]

Maybe Abiteboul agreed to put all in for Neuville this year and if it doesn't pay off, then there will be changes. He comes from F1 and tactics are different there.
It's Neuville's and Hyundai's 10th year in team/wrc and they have only managed to win 2 manu titles, which isn't clearly enough..

I don't see any change of philosophy in Hyundai. They hired world champion Tanak few years ago to try and win the title, now of course they would like to hire world champion Rovanpera.

[Rallyper]

How would this be better for WRC? I can't see any logic behind this. Good thing for WRC was that Ford now has a top driver compared to last year but if you change one really good driver to another, I can't see any benefit in this.

I´m grasping after straws... :)

[lmmjvss]

Ogier will race the next round of the French Autocross championship! Thats awesome. This series has live broadcast on YouTube! He will be racing on the top class (Super Buggy), with Florent Tafani's Alfa Racing car, who won the European Championship in 2021! Thats a great car! Cant wait
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0bLwNnqiiNKik7FTyepaq4aY 1xdah346ksRmGNco8M8WX8ryW7jS7dPdryFaF9Db4l&id=100057547025719&eav=AfbnLG_NeO7fEIsHZoi_Ab2NVZkHUVKxleXDVk-P214OIAqJwXXPohDyw_kRG4Igw0g&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=0

Heres the youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@ofactv/streams

[Neige]

A talk with P1 Fuels guy who works at refueling at WRC events about his work and WRC things.

http://rally-week.com/p1-fuels-and-wrc-povilas-jablonskis/

[Jarek Z]

The Toyota chairman has made it clear that the WRC cannot go all-electric:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyoda-silence-is-not-an-option-in-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwAR1Ar8wmZDlPv5yBiKo8zVq3hHDy7SgqstpWhiB-NNmJ0D-vLSFIwMiwa30

[lmmjvss]

CADENA3 Argentina saying they are back to the 2024 calendar

[steve.mandzij]

CADENA3 Argentina saying they are back to the 2024 calendarRumors indicate a September date and a possible location change to San Luis

[EstWRC]

Sounds like replacing Chile then which is this year at the end of September

[steve.mandzij]

Sounds like replacing Chile then which is this year at the end of Septemberwell according to the article chile is still confirmed as "the other" American round, meaning that mexico is gone and maybe Chile and Argentina are double headers

[EstWRC]

well according to the article chile is still confirmed as "the other" American round, meaning that mexico is gone and maybe Chile and Argentina are double headers

I would take this solution

[er88]

Does that mean no USA?

[skarderud]

Petter Solberg building facilites to house a future factoryteam in Torsby.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/solberg-bygger-drommen-om-ett-vm-team-i-torsby?fbclid=iwar2lso69tahh7zoltsmxx5xhec8vfiykg0 vjp4mksw7cqpbh87gfe7itgni

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[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-investigating-running-a-fourth-wrc-car-next-year/10488170/

So instead of having the 3rd car shared we might see 4 cars instead? Fingers crossed!

[Rallyest]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-investigating-running-a-fourth-wrc-car-next-year/10488170/

So instead of having the 3rd car shared we might see 4 cars instead? Fingers crossed!

Right out the bat, Neuville, Lappi and maybe Lindholm full time(like Solberg) and Sordo/Suninen shared car, were my first thought.

[sinepikohv]

I'm more than sure that Sordo will finish after 2023. He already wanted to retire after 2022 but Hyundai asked for his help and as a good soldier he obeyed. I just can't see him doing another year, especially when he doesn't challenge for wins and he told at the end of last year that he'll continue as he long as he feels he can be in the fight.

Reading Abiteboul's comments, it seems to me that the fourth car is an option if the events get shorter. Perhaps it's a bit of a bargaining chip from Hyundai? We'll bring another car but we need shorter events compared to now.

Also, I guess that Suninen might be decent enough to give him a full season in the third car. I think that if he gets some seat time this season then he won't be slower than Sordo next year. So if Hyundai gets shorter events, he could do a full season. If not, then he'd share the third car with Lindholm.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/uk-unlikely-to-secure-2024-wrc-round-argentina-vying-for-americas-spot/10488901/

It seems the rumors about Argentina trying to return were right & fingers crossed we'll see them back there next year. No NI round it seems, to no-one's surprise at this point I guess.

Edit: no mentions about Kenya being off the calendar for next year.

[J4MIE]

Argentina instead of Mexico next year.

[skarderud]

Rumours of Jari Matti drives a Rally1 in Finland?

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[Eli]

Rumours of Jari Matti drives a Rally1 in Finland?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Seems it might be legit, can't recall where I saw something regarding that first.

[TypeR]

Latvala in Finland with Yaris Rally1 confirmed now!
https://fb.watch/ly8PhZIZGp/

[meh]

Latvala in Finland with Yaris Rally1 confirmed now!
https://fb.watch/ly8PhZIZGp/

Team orders to expect? :D

[becher]

This is great!

[Katvala]

Looking forward to see this!

Sent from my M2012K11G using Tapatalk

[spyros]

Thats great news, JML is a very nice guy and he was very fast back in his good days especially in Finland.

[Eli]

Really glad to see him back, missed seeing him in a rally car but he hasn’t done the event in 4 years so I’d keep my expectations low.

[seb_sh]

That's cool, hope he has a trouble free rally!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is great and will be so good to enjoy him in the WRC again on his home rally. I hope it goes well.

Jari-Matti getting a real driving experience in the hybrid car on a proper rally can only help his understanding of his drivers.

[Rallyper]

JML will really gild the event.

[Jarek Z]

Really glad to see him back, missed seeing him in a rally car but he hasn’t done the event in 4 years so I’d keep my expectations low.

He hasn't been sitting at home all the time ;)
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/31-jari-matti-latvala/

[mknight]

Much better than renting the car to Bertelli.

Will be really interesting to see the comparison with Katsuta.

[becher]

Much better than renting the car to Bertelli.

Will be really interesting to see the comparison with Katsuta.

Thought the same, I don't see Katsuta beating him to be honest.

[ouvreur]

I hope I'm wrong, but the feeling I have is that he's going to struggle with the car and be a long way off the pace.

He's clearly not a bad driver - he won't be beaten by any Rally2s on pure pace, that's for sure - but I can't see him being quicker than Katsuta.

[Jarek Z]

Sebastien Loeb goes to Dakar with... Dacia factory team:
https://media.dacia.com/dacia-enters-dakar-rally-from-2025/

[Tauri_J]

Thought the same, I don't see Katsuta beating him to be honest.

Latvala Will be the slowest Rally1 car.

If not, it would be an impressive feat.

[bandit12]

He will beat at least one Ford due Toyotas better reliability

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jari-Matti getting a real driving experience in the hybrid car on a proper rally can only help his understanding of his drivers.

As I said...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-driving-rally-finland-will-help-me-as-team-principal/

[J4MIE]

Maybe he didn’t think they were spending enough on repair bills.
It’s nothing more than a glorified ego trip.

[flat_right]

Maybe he didn’t think they were spending enough on repair bills.
It’s nothing more than a glorified ego trip.

What the hell :D This is why we can't have nice things. Would you say the same about Grönholm doing Rally Sweden in 2010 or 2019? Or Loeb? He also had some years between his stints.

On his day Latvala was one of the fastest drivers out there and has done so much for rallying with this passion for historic cars and for rallying overall. And considering what kind of bad luck he had with Toyota in his last WRC, I think he has rather earned this ride. To say he is satisfying his ego is too much I would say.

[J4MIE]

The difference I suppose with Gronholm and Loeb is that they’re proven world champions. Did Latvala ever come close?

[TypeR]

Latvala is just so passionate about rallying and everything that comes with it.. Even look at his own cars museum that is opened to everybody with all the stories etc..

It's rude to call it an ego trip.. wtf

If he had raced in R5 or Evo then all would have been okay, but get the chance to drive rally1 is suddenly bad :D

Why so sour grapes.. as you are also involved in rally racing..

[J4MIE]

What sour grapes? Do you think I would rather be doing it instead? No. Did I say it was bad? No. Did I say he wasn’t passionate about rallying? No.
It’ll end in tears. But we can have another discussion in a few weeks time.

[TypeR]

If one would have been given a chance to drive/(co-drive) the top rally car and said no.. then it is something wierd..
But okay, nevermind

About ego trip.. :D
making a personal thread about entering a rally doesn't count right..

[HKSjbg]

The difference I suppose with Gronholm and Loeb is that they’re proven world champions. Did Latvala ever come close?

Not really, but what’s that got to do with it? Latvala is easily in the same company as Loeb, Gronholm, Hirvonen, Evans, Neuville - not necessarily all world champions, but all are multiple time world rally winners. If it were Serderidis, Al-Qassimi, Novikov or Bertelli I could understand the cynicism

[J4MIE]

:rotflmao:

[becher]

The difference I suppose with Gronholm and Loeb is that they’re proven world champions. Did Latvala ever come close?

This is what I never got with rally people. Every non world champion is a muppet?

[Jarek Z]

This is what I never got with rally people. Every non world champion is a muppet?

Yes, I also don't understand where all this negativity on the forum comes from.

[bomber21]

Social media negativity and toxicity invades forums as well

[meh]

Is it Latvala, Serdenidis, Munster... does not matter - someone can make their dreams come true, often they have had worked hard to do so.

"Rally1 startlist is so small", "Oh this dude does not deserve the drive!" - is it our/forum commentators thing to "decide" who can drive and who can not. Luckily, no one gives a s*it what you/we are thinking here. Everyone have always option just to not follow and watch it.

I think Latvala has still nice audience and I hope he is doing well based on his own expectations. I take it as work-bonus for him.

[becher]

Well I might eat my own words, but I don't see why a driver of Latvalas caliber should not still be fairly quick. He's no Loeb granted, but it's not the typical finish 50th birthday start either.

[meh]

... but it's not the typical finish 50th birthday start either.

based on his comments, it's more like 50th birthday (he actually has long way to go for that), but... he is competitor - when helmet goes on and start light says go, probably the theory will be left behind :)

[becher]

based on his comments, it's more like 50th birthday (he actually has long way to go for that), but... he is competitor - when helmet goes on and start light says go, probably the theory will be left behind :)
Of course it is, I meant more that he isn't retired for long whereas the likes of Grönholm, Alen, Salonen were retired for a long time before they came back for their 50th birthday and therefore their lack competitiveness was logic.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/le-wrc-vise-14-epreuves-en-2024/

Didn't Chile sign a multiple-year deal?

[satnav]

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/le-wrc-vise-14-epreuves-en-2024/

Didn't Chile sign a multiple-year deal?

Deals can be broken with a bigger pay check, the WRC rounds are all down to money now, it looks like there's no guarantee that you'll be there if someone offers the promoter more money

[Jarek Z]

Have you ever heard about this visionary?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/rallyings-visionary-whos-steps-ahead-of-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwAR1ZmhVhIujBxkDkx9Yy_oIjn3ljYz3iFIuvxpB6 Qgv7K6zjuZaZeVqL79g

[Rallyest]

Anyone have collected any info or have any indication how different/similar are Lappi's and Suninens driving styles, i mean Hyundai seems to suit Lappi very well, i mean we will know in a few days but, just wondering if anybody has made any "recce" on that?

[becher]

Anyone have collected any info or have any indication how different/similar are Lappi's and Suninens driving styles, i mean Hyundai seems to suit Lappi very well, i mean we will know in a few days but, just wondering if anybody has made any "recce" on that?

Hmm how did they compare at M Sport? Anyone remembers any comments regarding setup?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The cars are so different I dont think driving styles from the old Fiesta would be very relevant.

Suninen comments after Lõuna-Eesti Ralli test:

"That was really good preparation for the rally, got a good feeling and good preparation for the car. For Estonia, it will be tough to match the pace of the top guys, but to be close would be enough."

[becher]

The cars are so different I dont think driving styles from the old Fiesta would be very relevant.

Suninen comments after Lõuna-Eesti Ralli test:

"That was really good preparation for the rally, got a good feeling and good preparation for the car. For Estonia, it will be tough to match the pace of the top guys, but to be close would be enough."

Of course it does, what a specific driver expects and wants from a car in terms of behavior doesn't change with the regulations, if the car can give him what he wants however does change with that.

[meh]

I expect Lappi to be close to Tänak-Rovanperä and clearly faster than Neuville. If Suninen is faster than Neuville, it's really strong result from him.

South-Estonia rally had 3 loops on 3 stages and Suninen showed some progress - loss per km to Tänak:
1st loop: 1.13, 0.62, 0.89
2nd loop: 0.40, 0.45, 0.79
3rd loop: 0.44, 0.21, 0.30

Tänak was first on the road, always some extra cleaning disadvantage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Of course it does, what a specific driver expects and wants from a car in terms of behavior doesn't change with the regulations, if the car can give him what he wants however does change with that.

What he said in 2021 about the benefit of driving the Fiesta Rally2 car...

“Next year with Rally1 car, there’s no centre differential and we’re back to a [stick] gearshift and there’s going to be less aerodynamics,” he said.

“For the driving, this is more similar to the current Rally2 cars. OK, there’s no battery and a lot more power coming, like we will have for Rally1, but the actual driving style is maybe like [the] R5 car. To take more experience of driving a car in specification like this is good."

[becher]

What he said in 2021 about the benefit of driving the Fiesta Rally2 car...

“Next year with Rally1 car, there’s no centre differential and we’re back to a [stick] gearshift and there’s going to be less aerodynamics,” he said.

“For the driving, this is more similar to the current Rally2 cars. OK, there’s no battery and a lot more power coming, like we will have for Rally1, but the actual driving style is maybe like [the] R5 car. To take more experience of driving a car in specification like this is good."

Aj there is a difference between the driving style a car requires and the "driving style" of a driver (=> driver preference, what sort of behavior a driver likes and expects from a car). As driving styles of different drivers are often discussed on the forum I thought it would be clear what I meant.

[HKSjbg]

Neuville’s idea for format changes:

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/neuville-sheds-light-on-wrc-future-plans-reveals-format-tweak-proposal/10497210/

Sounds bloody awful to me

[Eli]

Neuville’s idea for format changes:

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/neuville-sheds-light-on-wrc-future-plans-reveals-format-tweak-proposal/10497210/

Sounds bloody awful to me

Saw it just now, I'm not sure how making Sunday like he proposes any better, sounds like a mess. Good thing he doesn't want the qualifying stage back.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Aj there is a difference between the driving style a car requires and the "driving style" of a driver (=> driver preference, what sort of behavior a driver likes and expects from a car). As driving styles of different drivers are often discussed on the forum I thought it would be clear what I meant.

I got what you meant but adapting to a very different car like the Rally1 with less aero, no centre diff and regenerative hybrid is difficult whatever your style.

Also with Suninen not being a full-time driver its case of him adapting his style to the car.

[ouvreur]

Saw it just now, I'm not sure how making Sunday like he proposes any better, sounds like a mess. Good thing he doesn't want the qualifying stage back.
Wow. My favourite line: “Then after that nobody knows. I could be the [Fernando] Alonso of the WRC.”

Except Fernando Alonso won 2 world driver's titles... :spinhead:

[focus206]

So a shorter rally and on sunday a 2 stage (2x same stage) rallysprint. Meh... I don't think there's a proper way to make sunday exciting, apart from the few times it's "naturally" exciting. It's just the way motorsport is, you could try to also give leg points, but that diminish more and more the importance of the rally overall classification, which I don't like. Someone who classifies in 5th getting more points than someone who classifies in 3rd...


Wow. My favourite line: “Then after that nobody knows. I could be the [Fernando] Alonso of the WRC.”

Except Fernando Alonso won 2 world driver's titles... :spinhead:

He probably meant to be still fast at an "old" age, like Alonso is in F1? Which is very probable, if the WRC keeps being a 8-9 cars championship. That is a bigger problem than sunday cruising.

[AndyRAC]

Shorter events are not the answer - I don't know why they can't understand this. Events need more freedom. Why not have some finish on a Saturday evening/ night? Or have a proper Sunday with a late afternoon finish.
Just mix it up a bit, instead of the same 'cookie cutter' events year after year......

[becher]

I got what you meant but adapting to a very different car like the Rally1 with less aero, no centre diff and regenerative hybrid is difficult whatever your style.

Also with Suninen not being a full-time driver its case of him adapting his style to the car.

He's been driving Rally2 anyway in recent times so by your logic he should adopt easily anyway as the hybrid is hardly a game changer in terms of driving dynamics.

But it was never about adopting the car to him (which the team will do as well as they can because they aren't a bunch of muppets) but if his driving style is similar to Lappis and if he therefore would feel similarly at home in the i20.

[becher]

Neuville’s idea for format changes:

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/neuville-sheds-light-on-wrc-future-plans-reveals-format-tweak-proposal/10497210/

Sounds bloody awful to me

Apart from spicing up the MGU, I think its all bs.

[denkimi]

Shorter events are not the answer - I don't know why they can't understand this. Events need more freedom. Why not have some finish on a Saturday evening/ night? Or have a proper Sunday with a late afternoon finish.
Just mix it up a bit, instead of the same 'cookie cutter' events year after year......
This. The current format is just boring. Why not drive till late at night on saturday sometimes and end there.

There is no way to make any rally exciting when the differences between drivers have become too big, but at least it could spare us another pointless day. The km's they do in 3 or 4 days now could almost always be done in 2. A 100km friday and a 200km saturday.

[Eli]

This. The current format is just boring. Why not drive till late at night on saturday sometimes and end there.

There is no way to make any rally exciting when the differences between drivers have become too big, but at least it could spare us another pointless day. The km's they do in 3 or 4 days now could almost always be done in 2. A 100km Friday and a 200km Saturday.

I remember back in 2013 (I think?) they drove in Finland until late Saturday but I think Thursday was a full on day, and they did the same thing with Monte-Carlo the following year.

[the sniper]

I'm not sure how the short period of longer, more characterful rallies in the early/mid 2010s, seemingly pushed by Jean Todt, came to be deemed a failure and we ended up with the mindset they have now? To my mind it was part of the momentum the WRC built up around that time in terms of interest, along with VW and Hyundai joining, before launching into the 2017 WRCar era. We're now back to the mid 2000s, with formulaic convenient itineraries which give the impression of allowing the manufactures/promoter to just go through the motions of fulfilling their obligation to do another rally...

Obviously, the current formats are cheaper. But there comes a point when you prune the things so much that you have to ask, what have we got left and what is it worth?

I can honestly say my interest in the WRC has never been lower (since I began to follow it properly), I've barely even followed the results this year. It's not like I've lost interest in rallying, I'll have attended around a dozen national rallies here in the UK by the end of the year, but I just feel largely indifferent about the WRC lately, I can't even believe it or understand it myself really, as pre-2020 I imagine I'd have been considered one of the hardcore. Inevitably the loss of Rally GB has been a big factor too though, as following the WRC, everything led to attending that each year.

[HKSjbg]

This utter tripe from Abiteboul sounds just as bad as Neuville’s ideas:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-suggests-wrc-regulations-need-modernizing/

This idea that ‘fan engagement’ automatically adds some value to the sport is nonsense. Lets have fans tweeting with a hashtag where there favourite driver can cut - no bloody thank you Cyril.

I even think the Power Stage is pointless as it creates this whole problem around Sundays being too boring. I can remember watching early-2000s Rally GBs where there’d still be a good 100+km to go on Sunday and no one complained that there wasn’t some excitement building up to that last stage. The Power Stage just feels too standardised and clinical, it’s a bit like DRS in F1 where creating more overtakes is meant to cure all ills but actually results in less excitement when everything becomes the same each round.

[EstWRC]

Interesting comment from Cyril to Estonian media that he thinks they let Ott go too easily and they are closely watching him this season

[Eli]

Interesting comment from Cyril to Estonian media that he thinks they let Ott go too easily and they are closely watching him this season

Well they didn't per say have a team principal, just Deputy Team Director Julien Moncet at the helm. In all honesty it would be interesting to see Ott & Neuville switch cars but that's highly unlikely.

[Eli]

It seems they've heard all the stupid ideas and are going to go with them next year, some of them anyhow, I was kidding when I said the next thing we know they'll bring back the qualifying stage but apparently they aren't: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-sunday-format-tweak-new-points-structure-under-discussion-for-2024/10499968/

Also, I wasn't aware the post-event press conference was live-streamed, did anybody here see it?

[bomber21]

I did not see it live but later and I found it a very good idea.

[doubled1978]

This utter tripe from Abiteboul sounds just as bad as Neuville’s ideas:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-suggests-wrc-regulations-need-modernizing/

This idea that ‘fan engagement’ automatically adds some value to the sport is nonsense. Lets have fans tweeting with a hashtag where there favourite driver can cut - no bloody thank you Cyril.

I even think the Power Stage is pointless as it creates this whole problem around Sundays being too boring. I can remember watching early-2000s Rally GBs where there’d still be a good 100+km to go on Sunday and no one complained that there wasn’t some excitement building up to that last stage. The Power Stage just feels too standardised and clinical, it’s a bit like DRS in F1 where creating more overtakes is meant to cure all ills but actually results in less excitement when everything becomes the same each round.

I’m not sure about the early 2000’s Rally GB’s. There were a few dreary Sunday mornings up in Resolven and Margam etc watching not a lot as everyone was driving for a finish.
I’ve skipped Sunday a couple of times on the later Rally GB’s as Brenig and Alwen were a bit boring and there was not much to get excited about on the leaderboard.

I think something different is required for Sunday, but how to go about it. The live TV element constrains a lot in terms of timing etc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It seems they've heard all the stupid ideas and are going to go with them next year, some of them anyhow, I was kidding when I said the next thing we know they'll bring back the qualifying stage but apparently they aren't: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-sunday-format-tweak-new-points-structure-under-discussion-for-2024/10499968/



I'm a bit surprised that they have better viewing figures for the Sunday stages. They usually start very early in the morning, plus most fans know its often just cruising before the PS.

With them discussing the points on offer, maybe awarding an extra couple for all Sunday stage wins will be considered ?

[Steve Boyd]

Why not do what the BTCC and some other race championships do and make it three events in the weekend? Give championship points for the classification on Friday night. Start a new event with a fresh set of points for Saturday and do the same again on Sunday. You wouldn't need a power stage and your restart lists could be the championship positions based on the points at the end of the last leg. You also wouldn't need SupeRally or Rally2 penalties as anyone who doesn't finish one of the legs wouldn't get any points for that leg but could start the next one just the same as everyone else.
It might be a bit crazy, but sometimes the wild ideas morph into something good.

[AndyRAC]

The WEC had years of stagnation when manufacturers pulled out; I don't recall any panic, and mad ideas/ gimmicks to improve the show. Whereas the WRC does the opposite....panics and wants to change the DNA of the sport......and it very rarely works. And then we're left with a watered down product, which offers very little to manufacturers.......

So, the WEC has been rewarded by attracting lots of new manufacturers, the WRC is still groping around not knowing what to do....and coming up with bizarre, short term ideas. It won't end well......

[rallyfiend]

Why not do what the BTCC and some other race championships do and make it three events in the weekend? Give championship points for the classification on Friday night. Start a new event with a fresh set of points for Saturday and do the same again on Sunday. You wouldn't need a power stage and your restart lists could be the championship positions based on the points at the end of the last leg. You also wouldn't need SupeRally or Rally2 penalties as anyone who doesn't finish one of the legs wouldn't get any points for that leg but could start the next one just the same as everyone else.
It might be a bit crazy, but sometimes the wild ideas morph into something good.

Some of regional rally championships use day points and have for many years.

It's not at all a foreign concept.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Three events over a weekend, or points given for each leg, cant be done if we want to keep the endurance element of the sport which has always been fundamental.

WRC and other rallies have already been watered down enough, becoming more and more like rally-sprints.

[Duvel]

Three events over a weekend, or points given for each leg, cant be done if we want to keep the endurance element of the sport which has always been fundamental.

WRC and other rallies have already been watered down enough, becoming more and more like rally-sprints.


Combine the two, points for each day, but also for whole rally?

[wyler]

Three events over a weekend, or points given for each leg, cant be done if we want to keep the endurance element of the sport which has always been fundamental.

WRC and other rallies have already been watered down enough, becoming more and more like rally-sprints.

why impossible? it's enough to mix it up... just keep the actual ystem + 5point for leg. it's just colliding with power stage.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-launches-wrc-tyre-tender-for-2025/10500280/

Hopefully Michelin will get it back, 15th of September is the deadline and they’ll announce it on the 19th of October.

[AMSS]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-launches-wrc-tyre-tender-for-2025/10500280/

Hopefully Michelin will get it back, 15th of September is the deadline and they’ll announce it on the 19th of October.

I somehow doubt Michelin are interested due to the current state of the WRC especially rally 1, also the tender should just say : the ones who pay us the most will get the tender and nothing else..

[Andre Oliveira]

Stupid rule. Open the competition to all tyres.

[Eli]

Stupid rule. Open the competition to all tyres.

It’s like AMSS said, it’s all about the money.

[doubled1978]

The WEC had years of stagnation when manufacturers pulled out; I don't recall any panic, and mad ideas/ gimmicks to improve the show. Whereas the WRC does the opposite....panics and wants to change the DNA of the sport......and it very rarely works. And then we're left with a watered down product, which offers very little to manufacturers.......

So, the WEC has been rewarded by attracting lots of new manufacturers, the WRC is still groping around not knowing what to do....and coming up with bizarre, short term ideas. It won't end well......

Exactly, the WEC listened to the manufactures and worked together with IMSA to come up with an affordable and transferable rule set and they have been rewarded with huge manufacture interest and participation.
They have benefitted from the ACO (Le Mans Organsiers) being far more open to thinking about the wider Sportscar family rather than just their own event, previously they used the fact the LM24 was the reason most manufactures even bothered with sportscars to wield their power over the WEC and IMSA which in turn made the series unsustainable.
They haven’t changed the format of their races to suit the ‘modern’ viewer, they have just created a cost effective rule set.

I believe the WRC has the same ability, there are brands that will come if they can settle on a sensible way forward that is cost effective. I don’t believe there is much fundamentally wrong with the WRC, it’s just too expensive to compete for its value in the market place.
If the stakeholders can come up with a technical rule set that is relevant enough and cost effective, I’m sure it will succeed. If the WRC has 4 active brands with a mandate to provide customer cars, very quickly there will be 20+ cars competing and then they have something to sell.

[Steve Boyd]

The current Rally1 rules for WRC came from the manufacturers. They wanted to run prototypes, like in sportscar racing, because it was cheaper for them than homologating production cars. Manufacturers outside the current three were also consulted. It hasn't increased the entries, though.

Are you suggesting that ACM (organisers of Monte Carlo) should have a similar say in WRC to that of ACM is WEC? Would that result in a more "manufacturer friendly" rule set?

[Sal yet again]

I think the sport needs to look at all the mixed messaging it puts out there as well as thinking about the machinery.

The recent Goodwood Festival of Speed in the UK saw all 3 WRC manufacturers present for the first time since 2019. At the FOS one of the main features was all the cars performing donuts as part of their runs/displays to the delight of the crowds. What happens when that happens on or after the finish of a WRC round? A fine for the driver...You have the current and probably 2023 WRC Champion competing in Drifting seen as probably the biggest fan draw away for rallying yet bringing some of the that raw/outlaw appeal that supposedly draws in a lot of the WRC’s target demographic, is actively discouraged. Way back in the 70s and 80s Rally Portugal featured a stage at Estoril race circuit and after the main rally there was a “gymkhana” type event for the crews, even some of the team’s service barges took part! Why couldn’t something like that take place on the odd event during the year? Would be far better than the current arrangements.

Trying to preach the sustainability gospel then allowing the teams to drag 3 storey pre-fab buildings around the globe seems bizarre. To then say that these buildings are stopping fan access and start talking of “grid walks” so the fans can get up close is just plain misguided. I’m lucky enough to be able to remember when servicing took place where ever it could and there was no need to worry about access and whilst I appreciate that those were “different” times it still seems like a massive own goal.

As for the tv/online coverage WRC+ is patently not fit for purpose and is purely just another cash making exercise for the promotor. The gormless end of stage interview format and lack of outside cameras on events just fails to excite. I’d rather wait for footage from the likes of Passats de Canto for my fill than watch endless in-car but appreciate not everyone has the patience/attention span that I do.

[skarderud]

The current Rally1 rules for WRC came from the manufacturers. They wanted to run prototypes, like in sportscar racing, because it was cheaper for them than homologating production cars. Manufacturers outside the current three were also consulted. It hasn't increased the entries, though.

Are you suggesting that ACM (organisers of Monte Carlo) should have a similar say in WRC to that of ACM is WEC? Would that result in a more "manufacturer friendly" rule set?Yes, i remember that round, but can anyone of the manu's or FIA says this ended as a sucsess?

Hardly.

No new manu's, uninterested competition, less fans, no privateers (good ones), nothing.

Yes, the cars are incredible spectacular, but that is not what fans or other manu's really want, obviously.


Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[AndyRAC]

The current Rally1 rules for WRC came from the manufacturers. They wanted to run prototypes, like in sportscar racing, because it was cheaper for them than homologating production cars. Manufacturers outside the current three were also consulted. It hasn't increased the entries, though.

Which is pretty damning - and tells you all you need to know. The WRC offers very little for manufacturers....whereas other series do.

[mknight]

When new rules (Rally1) have many things common with previous ones the existing manus have a big starting advantage, which is one of the reasons new manus are mostly interested in joinnig when there is a big rule change.

For WRC17 to Rally1 transition I would expect the engine rules had a lot to say. Current manus have 5+++ years experience running 1.6 turbos and there was a deadline for freezed homologation in mid 2021.

----
Sure this could be overcome if a manu has strong will (money) to join, but at the same time no manu atm is focused on trying to sell hybrids alone (only Toyota, but they were already in and even they are moving to trying to sell EVs).

----
I said it before that the hybrids were simply too late, should have come in 2020 latest. If they did there was a chance for Skoda and for Citroen staying.

As said multiple times this is not something new. Rally has been behind the trend during all major engine changes last 20 years. First WRC/Gr N was running turbos when no roadcars had it, then they moved to S2000 N/A engines just as all manus started downsizing. Now they went for hybrid just as manus are going to EVs.

[doubled1978]

The current Rally1 rules for WRC came from the manufacturers. They wanted to run prototypes, like in sportscar racing, because it was cheaper for them than homologating production cars. Manufacturers outside the current three were also consulted. It hasn't increased the entries, though.

Are you suggesting that ACM (organisers of Monte Carlo) should have a similar say in WRC to that of ACM is WEC? Would that result in a more "manufacturer friendly" rule set?

No, the ACM don’t have enough sway over the WRC to shape the rules. The ACO in the past did have that over the WEC (or the other series that pre-dated it) because their event was essentially 75% of the championship in marketing terms. They would often decide on a rule set that was a technology advancing one, which comes at a cost, in the case of LMP1, a very large one. Nowadays, the ACO are much more on board with the whole global system of sportscars and are much more in harmony with the WEC and also IMSA. LMDh and Hypercar are far from technology driven categories, the hybrid isn’t really a performance part, it’s just there for marketing.

[RS]

Stupid rule. Open the competition to all tyres.

It would be better for the tyre manufacturers too. Pirelli could brag about beating their competitors instead of just being famous for puncturing.

[AndyRAC]

It would be better for the tyre manufacturers too. Pirelli could brag about beating their competitors instead of just being famous for puncturing.

Ah, so you've been watching the MTB World Cup......they've had a few there as well.....cost Evie the win in Nove Mesto.

[RS]

Ah, so you've been watching the MTB World Cup......they've had a few there as well.....cost Evie the win in Nove Mesto.

No, just rallying!

[Steve Boyd]

Stupid rule. Open the competition to all tyres.


It would be better for the tyre manufacturers too. Pirelli could brag about beating their competitors instead of just being famous for puncturing.But would it be better for the sport? How many teams would get a tyre sponsorship deal? How many tyre manufacturers would want to get into a development war. If "brand X" tyres had an exclusive deal with one team and their tyres were much better than the rest, where would that leave the other teams? How much would the teams without a deal have to pay for tyres compared with now?
Opening up to all tyres might only work if you make all tyres available to all teams and ban any links between tyre manufacturers and teams. Would the teams be intersted in this? Without knowing details of the current tyre supply deal, we can't say.

[ictus]

But would it be better for the sport? How many teams would get a tyre sponsorship deal? How many tyre manufacturers would want to get into a development war. If "brand X" tyres had an exclusive deal with one team and their tyres were much better than the rest, where would that leave the other teams? How much would the teams without a deal have to pay for tyres compared with now?
Opening up to all tyres might only work if you make all tyres available to all teams and ban any links between tyre manufacturers and teams. Would the teams be intersted in this? Without knowing details of the current tyre supply deal, we can't say.

You can say the same thing about suspension, turbos, etc...
Why not have all the teams use the same engines and bodys, only strap a different badge on the front?
Competition between manufacturers always improves the final product

[mknight]

Recently we had tire competition with DMACK 2014-2017 and before that with Pirelli until end of 2006.

The overall effect wasn't positive.

Yes you had some positive effect like DMACK paying for Tanak's and in 2017 Evans starts but overall it reduced the competition.

The reason was that one tire was always significantly better in one set of conditions. To the point that it got boring.

DMACK made the tire better on wet+cold gravel, so in GB you had one rally for DMAC(Evans) and one for others.
Before that Michelin was much better on dry tarmac so Pirelli (Subarus) were basically always on last places on tarmac. When it rain d Pirelli was much better, so every stage was Subaru 1-2.

Thing is tire manus even did this on purpose (certainly DMACK did). Making their tires much better in specific conditions to guarantee a good result on at least one rally, rather then trying to match overall.

In a field with too few cars, this kind of "automatic" differences made for an even narrower field and fewer close fights.

[Andre Oliveira]

At least in WRC2 we lost the competition. Why they oblige one/two round teams to use Pirelli? That's non sense.

[AMSS]

Recently we had tire competition with DMACK 2014-2017 and before that with Pirelli until end of 2006.

The overall effect wasn't positive.

Yes you had some positive effect like DMACK paying for Tanak's and in 2017 Evans starts but overall it reduced the competition.

The reason was that one tire was always significantly better in one set of conditions. To the point that it got boring.

DMACK made the tire better on wet+cold gravel, so in GB you had one rally for DMAC(Evans) and one for others.
Before that Michelin was much better on dry tarmac so Pirelli (Subarus) were basically always on last places on tarmac. When it rain d Pirelli was much better, so every stage was Subaru 1-2.

Thing is tire manus even did this on purpose (certainly DMACK did). Making their tires much better in specific conditions to guarantee a good result on at least one rally, rather then trying to match overall.

In a field with too few cars, this kind of "automatic" differences made for an even narrower field and fewer close fights.

There is another side of this as well, the manufactorers especially in F1 when they had Bridgestone and Michelin at the same time weren`t too excited because at the the post race press reports they spoke more about if the winner was on Bridgestone or Michelin, not if the winner was a Ferrari or a Renault as example, especially the Rally 1 teams might be worried about this. The tire manufactorers again would probably love this (at least the winners)

[Andre Oliveira]

I like when Michelin and now Pirelli commemorate the x win in WRC. They run alone... what stat is relevant?

[EstWRC]

As always every year during rally Finland the rumors start

Ogier or Evans to Hyundai?

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/wechselt-sebastien-ogier-zu-hyundai-50596/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[mknight]

They seem certain Hyundai wants 4 cars? Or do they mean 4 drivers changing in 3 cars like now?

Hyundai has 3 "problems":
- 3rd car
Is Suninen a good longer term solution? (too early to tell) if so paired with Sordo or even alone? Is Sordo still good enough? ( It looked like that in Portugal but since then it was quite bad again.)

- Title candidate that can challenge Rovanpera.
Neuville imo just isn't up for it. They can hope Lappi improves further and becomes one.

- Young driver with good potential. Imo Lindholm is not the one. He ended in Hyundai mostly because nobody better (Solberg or Pajari) was interested.

Ogier would fit in the 3rd car, pairing with Suninen, or for title challenge, but I kinda doubt he is interested in that. Evans would fit as fulltime "3rd" car.

Toyota has a potential problem though. Katsuta is not good enough for 3rd car. I thought Solberg would go there, but lately Pajari seems more likely (full season Rally2 and some Rally1 starts). If Toyota then loses one of Ogier/Evans , manu title starts to look difficult for them. Even with Rovanpera dominating.

[EstWRC]

Also. Juohki reporting in Finnish media that Suninen has a contract also for next year with Hyundai, 7 rallies

[mknight]

That would imo rule out any chance for Evans switching. Ogier to pair him up would still work.