Rally Sweden 2023

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak wont be worried about Breen tomorrow with having nearly the same road position.

[focus206]

Yet another crap Friday for Neuville and a fightback required.

2nd on the road, 10 seconds behind Evans who was 3rd on the road, seems reasonable. Evans' day was quite worse, 24 seconds behind Tanak while driving the best car of the lot. Also no fightback possible, too few cars had problems today so Neuville will still sweep tomorrow.
Great rally so far by Ott, I don't think Breen or Lappi will be able to keep up with him on speed.

[seb_sh]

Thoughts after first day. Katsuta's first test as a poinst scoring driver is a fail unfortunately. Everyone else did well considering the conditions. Neuville had physical and road postions limitations so I can't be too critical. Loubet made it, his times don't matter that much but it's important that he improves as he goes and finishes the rally.

[dimviii]

Pajari till 7th stage had 6.8sec diff from Oliver.
At last stage lost 6.2 to Oliver

[seb_sh]

very good interview with Cyril, Hyundai has a proper team principal! Also liked that he was not afraid to call out the need to improve the coverage.

[hari]

Some pictures from Friday:https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_schweden_2023.html

https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/1.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/2.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/3.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/4.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/5.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden3/6.jpg

[Morte66]

Seems today we had one stage (run twice) with big cleaning, and the rest had a little cleaning but it was not extreme.

What are we expecting the rest of the rally stages to be like?

[Scaha]

Great event so far. Kalle is more behind than I expected but nice to see how fast Breen, Lappi and Takamoto have been. Tänak on ss7 was amazing! There’s motivation showing!

[pettersolberg29]

Pajari till 7th stage had 6.8sec diff from Oliver.
At last stage lost 6.2 to Oliver

Great tyre strategy by Oliver - saving new tyres for the final icy stage!

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FooN_KMXEBAEPsC?format=jpg&name=large

[cali]

Great event so far. Kalle is more behind than I expected but nice to see how fast Breen, Lappi and Takamoto have been. Tänak on ss7 was amazing! There’s motivation showing!Kalle is still only 20 sec from 3rd which is 5 SS x 4 sec or 4 SS x 5 sec only so this more than doable. And still he could put pressure on those 2 guys up in front too.

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[cali]

Any tyre info available? Who's with 5 and who's with 6 tyres?

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[meh]

Any tyre info available? Who's with 5 and who's with 6 tyres?

WRC LIve: Toyotas 6, others 5.

[EstWRC]

Katsuta first on the road and average already 139km/h

[TypeR]

Katsuta first on the road and average already 139km/h
Second pass in danger..?

[meh]

So many long straight sections... I think we can expect Rovanperä show to begin

[bandit12]

So... I di not see anybody complaining about cpt Bertorelli's presence on this rally....

[Tauri_J]

Second pass in danger..?

Danger for who? Average speed rule is stupid

[EstWRC]

Kalle just 0.5 faster than Thierry in spl1

[meh]

So many long straight sections... I think we can expect Rovanperä show to begin

... but, he is slower than Neuville.

[Tauri_J]

... but, he is slower than Neuville.

Hyundai has higher top speed, whatever the reason

[EstWRC]

Today will be difficult for Tänak with these long straights

[rallyfiend]

Danger for who? Average speed rule is stupid

I don't think there is an average speed rule.

People seem to spend a lot of time debating a rule that doesn't exist.

[bandit12]

I don't think there is an average speed rule.
People seem to spend a lot of time debating a rule that doesn't exist.

Remember 2017 Rally Sweden and stage named Knon

[EstWRC]

Tänak has to attack on the long one cause that one has narrow technical sections

[jonkka]

I don't think there is an average speed rule.

People seem to spend a lot of time debating a rule that doesn't exist.

It's not as much a rule (as written in the rulebook) rather than FIA Safety Delegate having authority to cancel stages deemed unsafe to run.

[Gonek]

Hyundai has higher top speed, whatever the reason Engine. Look on the comment from Breen after SS9.

[EstWRC]

I’m surprised the Toyota boys can’t get against Neuville

[meh]

I’m surprised the Toyota boys can’t get against Neuville

Same here. Could not put my money on Neuville on fast straight sections against Rovanperä. But seems that Hyundai got better setup and/or engine for that. Neuville delivers well of course, just car and strong engine does not do the time.

[Tauri_J]

Crazy how close it is

[EstWRC]

Seems Tänak has no answer to Breen

[EstWRC]

Kalle has halfed the gap with Lappi already. Just 12.1 now the gap

[Sulland]

How much difference in trackwith between the wheels is it between rally1 and rally2 cars.

[AnttiL]

Second pass in danger..?

Remember 2017 Rally Sweden and stage named Knon


Neuville said in Dirtfish's pre-rally interview that the super fast 2017 Knon stage was dangerous because there were no snow banks. Now there is, so the situation is different. Average speed is not a measurement for safety officially, FIA evaluates the stage safety be eye.

[AndersX]

Am I the only one who get annoyed by Tanaks constant complaining? Seems it has become a bad habit in Hyundai time. Nobody expected that Puma would be competitive in the first part of year anyway; too much lost development time in 2022 due to the bunch of crashmasters.

How demotivating it is for boys and girls in M-Sport to listen those complaints in every interview!

Pick your self up, Ott!

[AnttiL]

I still think Ott sounds very different than last year. Last year he was attacking the team, sounding very annoyed. Now he's very humble and quiet, although it's clear that things aren't going his way.

[EstWRC]

Am I the only one who get annoyed by Tanaks constant complaining? Seems it has become a bad habit in Hyundai time. Nobody expected that Puma would be competitive in the first part of year anyway; too much lost development time in 2022 due to the bunch of crashmasters.

How demotivating it is for boys and girls in M-Sport to listen those complaints in every interview!

Pick your self up, Ott!

What does he has to do then?

To Say the feeling and the car is the best and have a huge fake smile while things actually aren’t the best?

I don’t see him being critical to the team, more towards himself.

[denkimi]

Am I the only one who get annoyed by Tanaks constant complaining? Seems it has become a bad habit in Hyundai time. Nobody expected that Puma would be competitive in the first part of year anyway; too much lost development time in 2022 due to the bunch of crashmasters.

How demotivating it is for boys and girls in M-Sport to listen those complaints in every interview!

Pick your self up, Ott!
What makes you think the Puma will be competitive later in the year? It will probably go only backwards compared to hyundai and toyota.

[doubled1978]

What makes you think the Puma will be competitive later in the year? It will probably go only backwards compared to hyundai and toyota.

Not necessarily, it depends if they find a few things that make the car better for Tanak that don’t cost huge amount of budget.
I don’t how much geometry stuff they can change easily, but still the car looks out of balance. He’s driving it very well.

[Eli]

For him to drive the car for only the second time on snow and be 2nd today is pretty good considering everything. I'm pretty confident they'll manage to improve the car throughout the year, remember 12 months ago? no one thought Hyundai had a chance yet Tänak managed to get 3 wins with an under-steering, not to his liking car.

[rp]

Without the doubt Tänak is the best driver there. He can drive fast what ever car and is able to adapt to the different car.

[Tauri_J]

Who has 2 spares besides Evans?

[bandit12]

All toyotas and hyundais

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great helicopter shots of Breen here.

[EstWRC]

Breen all over the place. The straights are saving him

[EstWRC]

Morning loop https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/79247-rally-sweden-2023/?leg=2


Afternoon will be interesting. Seems to me Breen can’t hold his tires as Tänak does

We Will see

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Back to 2.6s gap... good job by Tanak limiting the Breen i20 power advantage.

[cali]

Am I the only one who get annoyed by Tanaks constant complaining? Seems it has become a bad habit in Hyundai time. Nobody expected that Puma would be competitive in the first part of year anyway; too much lost development time in 2022 due to the bunch of crashmasters.

How demotivating it is for boys and girls in M-Sport to listen those complaints in every interview!

Pick your self up, Ott!Pretty much you're the only one. And this year there's no complaining and it's obvious that you can't get grips with the car only on 2 rallies. And we know that the Puma is the weakest car on the grid but maybe not for a long. And for estonian media he said that the result is positive, just that the car is not for his liking yet.
And today I haven't seen a driver who's been satisfied with their car maybe only excluding Breen from that list. These drivers are very demanding bunch.

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[Tauri_J]

Feeling that M-Sport will be excellent at Mexico, Portugal and Sardegna. It was really good on twisty stuff last year too.

[jonkka]

Feeling that M-Sport will be excellent at Mexico, Portugal and Sardegna. It was really good on twisty stuff last year too.

Until powersteering fails.

[EstWRC]

Until powersteering fails.

oh, what a surprise who is writing (wishing) this

A finn....

[cali]

oh, what a surprise who is writing (wishing) this

A finn....Yes it's interesting whereas estonians do not generally wish harm to Kalle or EP or any other finnish driver I can't say that this is a general consensus between finns, quite the contrary the attitude is towards estonians (and especially Tänak) very harmful at times.

Go wonder what's cooking in those heads

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[AnttiL]

I don't wish anything bad for Tänak. M-Sport just had more technical faults than other teams last year, and they already had power steering issues in Monte

[mknight]

oh, what a surprise who is writing (wishing) this

A finn....

Jeez, how about relax a bit.

It is 100% Estonian cry-box here lately. Tanak this Tanak that...

With very interesting posts like:

Without the doubt Tänak is the best driver there. He can drive fast what ever car and is able to adapt to the different car.

Read: "Tanak is best because... Tanak is best"


And epic long term conclusion from single stage:

Great day from Tänak. Definitely can fight for the title with this car


Then when someone dares to say anything else it's a Estonia hitsquad on him.

---------------------

On point:

- I agree with AndersX, since about a year ago, every stage interview with Tanak is how something is bad. Sure the questions he gets are often leading to it. Then again he was also complaining about various issues at Toyota even when leading by 40s after Friday.

- jonkka is also right, Puma was indeed best on slow gravel last year, but also least reliable. (What he "wishes" I have no idea.)

Also I think Tanak will win here (put that also in pickems).

[Humber]

I hope M-Sport and the component suppliers can give Tanak the quality products he deserves.

[EstWRC]

With very interesting posts like:


Read: "Tanak is best because... Tanak is best"


And epic long term conclusion from single stage:





based on single stage? i wrote that yesterday after the day had finished and today also confirms it but like always with You, You come and try to twist others words when someone doesnt say what YOU want or think. Like now, user rp thinks Tänak is the best driver in the series, well thats his opinion but You come and answer with irony cause you dont agree with it

I have been quiet for years about this Finns vs Estonians thing but not anymore.

Ive been to every Rally Finland since 2015 (except 2021) and I have seen how much the attitude towards Estonians has changed. In 2015-2017 the Finns were joking and very friendly to us, sayin that Tänak is good and etc. Once he started winning in 2018 the attitude changed completely, no more friendly chats anymore when they see you are Estonian.

One example of 2018 when we arrived at the stage side camp with our cars. We were one of the first ones and the land owner drove to us with his ATV. He started to chat but his mood was very down, we tried to cheer him up that Latvala is on 3rd position and things arent so bad. The dude didnt agree at all and in the end shouted quite loudly "WHY THE F**K TOMMI TOOK TÄNAK TO THIS TEAM?" and just put the gas down and drove off with his ATV. We were like "what the hell just happened"

The other is from last year, we were at Päijälä and one Finnish guy noticed that we didnt have internet and he came closer to us to tell the splits from his radio. Again, in the beginning kind of friendly chat but when we left and thanked him for that he also shouted afterwards to us: "Tänak is leading at the moment but i am 100% sure he will crash"

Also to add this endless ridiculous articles in Finnish media about Tänak

Personally I have nothing against Finns and their drivers, Ive always praised Kalle here and im not juding the whole nation based on the events that we have had during Rally Finland but sometimes the attitude is just ridiculous

[meh]

oh, what a surprise who is writing (wishing) this

A finn....

Let's don't go to over nation abstraction based on one/few persons. Every persons have sympathy with some drivers and anti-sympathy on others. Tänak has some polarizing personality - you like it or you kind of hate it.

Tänak is down to the Earth and not getting overexcited with some good/best times, he wants best from the car and he is (for some too vocal) when the car/setup is not for his liking. So far he is not pointing finger towards team, just he is still in "discovery" mode with the car and finding out where the car and he in the car is comparing to others. Estonians are used to #nofilter style saying all out like it is, in some other culture it's considered rude. Just something to take into account.

[AnttiL]

Jeez, how about relax a bit.

It is 100% Estonian cry-box here lately. Tanak this Tanak that...

With very interesting posts like:

rp is Finnish, by the way. So in addition to myself, here's at least two Finns who like Tänak :)

But other than that I think we should calm down :)

[denkimi]

It is 100% Estonian cry-box here lately. Tanak this Tanak that...

Indeed. Quite some annoying tanak fanboys here.
It seems the 2019 season when he had a completely dominant car and no topdrivers as teammates made a lot of people think he's some kind of rally god.

[AnttiL]

Also I wouldn't draw too big consequences on things you hear in the forest in the heat of the moment or what crap yellow papers write...

[jonkka]

oh, what a surprise who is writing (wishing) this

A finn....

A simple statement of a fact based on M-Sport's perceived lack of reliability last season. What I wish is different thing entirely and I can assure you, has absolutely nothing to do with Tanak. Or Estonia for that matter. As others have already noted, let's not stir trouble where there is none and let's just enjoy the rally. Especially now that Tanak is looking to regain the lead, isn't he?

[bandit12]

Yeah. Let's all calm down and enjoy this event

[EstWRC]

A simple statement of a fact based on M-Sport's perceived lack of reliability last season. What I wish is different thing entirely and I can assure you, has absolutely nothing to do with Tanak. Or Estonia for that matter. As others have already noted, let's not stir trouble where there is none and let's just enjoy the rally. Especially now that Tanak is looking to regain the lead, isn't he?

Understood.

Not sure about Tänak taking the lead. Breen is driving really good. Will be very difficult

[Tauri_J]

Indeed. Quite some annoying tanak fanboys here.
It seems the 2019 season when he had a completely dominant car and no topdrivers as teammates made a lot of people think he's some kind of rally god.

Wow, that is simply not true.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak's manner is being noticed by others. Yesterday Becs Williams said she'd faint if Tanak said ever he was happy.

And Gerard Quinn @WRCgerardquinn said:

Jeez....... Cheer up Tanak, you are just 3 sec off the top podium position. Its only your second event in the car and a lot to happen yet!
#highexpectation #hunter

[cali]

Tanak's manner is being noticed by others. Yesterday Becs Williams said she'd faint if Tanak said ever he was happy.

And Gerard Quinn @WRCgerardquinn said:

Jeez....... Cheer up Tanak, you are just 3 sec off the top podium position. Its only your second event in the car and a lot to happen yet!
#highexpectation #hunterThat's actually easy to explain if taking into account that he was planning to be ahed of others by ca 15 seconds which hasn't come to fruitition.

I generally surprise that people are still surprised by his high standards

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[TypeR]

Too emotional- bad
Too honest - bad
Too calm - bad
Too positive(all good) - bad

:D

I would assume now everybody go with 2 spares now, as there is extra 10km stage..

[EstWRC]

Do we have the tyre info?

[meh]

Do we have the tyre info?

Everyone with 6 (from All Live)

[wwbroe]

What happened with Elfynn?

[wwbroe]

Went into the snowbank

[wyler]

What happened with Elfynn?

spin + some hard kiss on the banks

[wwbroe]

Tanak faster then Breen on first split

[wwbroe]

But Breen fighting back, recovering some time

[wwbroe]

Difference overall down to just 1,7 sec

[EstWRC]

Breen definitely pushing a lot. You can see, many little mistakes

[bandit12]

Well. I could be his maiden win. Of course he is pushing.

[Tauri_J]

Well. I could be his maiden win. Of course he is pushing.

Could kill his tyres again, long way to go

[Tauri_J]

Arghh Huttunen

[wwbroe]

Went off and got stuck in snowbank, more then two minutes lost

[dupanton]

Breen definitely pushing a lot. You can see, many little mistakes

Everyone is touching snow banks, Tanak ran a little wide on a junction.
It's the nature of these stages, with the snowbanks you can take more risks than on other rallies.

[wwbroe]

They are not showing stage that is live now, bizar

[meh]

They are not showing stage that is live now, bizar

It was similar with 1st run, coverage started when Taka was near finish.

edit: or with provocation from last rally - do you want to watch Bertelli driving? :)

[wwbroe]

It was similar with 1st run, coverage started when Taka was near finish.

Ok, thanks for the info, 1ste run i was sleeping as i worked in the night.;)

[Boosted Launch]

They have to fly the plane that relays the signal over to the stage, that is the reason for most of their gaps in coverage, line of sight to the plane is required.
2381

[AndersX]

In the meantime swedish CMore is live and picture is much better than via the App

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great view of the road surface from Loubet's bumper cam.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Spin for Kalle !

[wwbroe]

Kalle went off, just a high speed spin

[jonkka]

Off for good or just momentarily?

[Tauri_J]

Snowbanks are so strong that its like bobsleighing with cars

[TypeR]

Didn't lose anything basically.. 3-4sec max.

[meh]

Kalle went off, just a high speed spin

#fakenews

Again, if you say he went off, it's kind of "off the road". He did not, he just span.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Bet Tanak will take the lead here.

[wwbroe]

#fakenews

Again, if you say he went off, it's kind of "off the road". He did not, he just span.

Was very lucky that there was escape road at that place or he would still be there:)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi spins now and a bit stuck !

[wwbroe]

So Lappi went off or just spun?;)

[meh]

So Lappi went off or just spun?;)

Stuck in snowbank.

[bandit12]

So Lappi went off or just spun?;)

Good one 🤣

[wwbroe]

I am not so sure about that, about Tanak taking the lead

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi still stuck. So frustrating.

[wwbroe]

Just 0,5 between Breen and Tanak overall

[dupanton]

Breen exploded a tyre... Everything happening now

[TypeR]

Lappi still sitting in a car like a queen.. Go out and help to showel ffs..

[EstWRC]

Tänak saving his tires, used the old here

[bandit12]

Lappi still stuck. So frustrating.

Yeah... It was going so well for him

[denkimi]

so rovanpera already on the podium and neuville only 3.7 away.

[TypeR]

Pirelli... quality is amazing

[Tauri_J]

F1 vibes here, tyre laminations for same time in the same place

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Higher top speed of the Hyundai's making the studded tyres blow ?

[Tauri_J]

Lappi still sitting in a car like a queen.. Go out and help to showel ffs..

Not enough shovels lol

[ferrial]

Feel sad for Lappi, had a great rally until the front right tyre gave up.

[meh]

Higher top speed of the Hyundai's making the studded tyres blow ?

Maybe just more aggressive driving style? But probably need to wait till end of day to make any conclusions. In case Breen cooked his tires, he will be in big trouble for next ones.

[bandit12]

Did this incident with Lappi somehow disturbed Tänaks and Breens stage times?

[dupanton]

Or a more agressive setup, as both of them drive for Hyundai.

[wwbroe]

Oliver is managing his lead perfectly, very mature rally sofar

[EstWRC]

Did this incident with Lappi somehow disturbed Tänaks and Breens stage times?

Wouldn’t say so. Ott didn’t lift at all basically and Breen maybe only a little

Maybe a second max was lost there but not more

[wwbroe]

Did this incident with Lappi somehow disturbed Tänaks and Breens stage times?
Breen was fastest on last split but had also problem with front tyre, so in the end Tanak was still faster

[meh]

Did this incident with Lappi somehow disturbed Tänaks and Breens stage times?

They had to slow down there, but for both it was the same. Maybe others won max 2 sec from this compared to them.

[Tauri_J]

Did this incident with Lappi somehow disturbed Tänaks and Breens stage times?

Tänak lost slightly, could even helped Breen because his tyre delaminated before that corner and he couldnt take it with full speed anyway.

[seb_sh]

What a messy stage for almost everyone. The delaminations are quite concerning. I felt bad for Lappi seems it was not even a mistake and he payed way too much for that. Also is this continuing evidence that Rovanpera has inherited the luck of the champions?

[meh]

I think ALL Live crew need some intro to have proper equipment for cold weather.

Kiri is quite sick and if to listen coverage with headset, their nose problems feels like I need to cleanup my ears already from that...

For quick-fix they probably need Jägermeister or Valhalla or whatever is popular there.

[bandit12]

I think ALL Live crew need some intro to have proper equipment for cold weather.

Kiri is quite sick and if to listen coverage with headset, their nose problems feels like I need to cleanup my ears already from that...

For quick-fix they probably need Jägermeister or Valhalla or whatever is popular there.

Few Jägerbulls should do the trick

[EstWRC]

What a messy stage for almost everyone. The delaminations are quite concerning. I felt bad for Lappi seems it was not even a mistake and he payed way too much for that. Also is this continuing evidence that Rovanpera has inherited the luck of the champions?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230211/33dddb45028bd2f0cef60819c3579760.jpg

[Sulland]

The rally1 cars have so much power that they smashes the stages, even if it only 10 of them!

But two delaminations should make drivers, teams and Pirelli think ahead.

[Sulland]

I think ALL Live crew need some intro to have proper equipment for cold weather.

Kiri is quite sick and if to listen coverage with headset, their nose problems feels like I need to cleanup my ears already from that...

For quick-fix they probably need Jägermeister or Valhalla or whatever is popular there.

Someone local should give the brits a crashcourse in how to dress in cold weather, they are helpless!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tänak @OttTanak
"We had to go slow there, but other than that I kept the old tyres from the previous stage. It was hard in the end, but that was the best we could do. It was a killer stage for the tyres."

[meh]

Haha, nice coverage from road section. It was slippery for Järveoja to walk and Porter: "it was biggest moment they had today".

[wwbroe]

Taka with another moment in there

[wwbroe]

Neuville on a charge

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Another very good run by Neuville, mounting his customary Saturday fight-back. If only he could start rallies with the right set-up and feeling...

[wwbroe]

Kalle and Thierry at equal overall time

[meh]

Neuville was on a flyer... Tänak is 2.8sec faster... in 1st split. I'm getting a bit scared.

[Tauri_J]

This is where Tänak attacks

[wwbroe]

Tanak very fast on first split, another 2,8 faster as Neuville

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wow - Tanak's newer tyres paying off !

[wwbroe]

Breen all over the place

[wwbroe]

Tanak 6 sec faster then Neuville at split 2

[wwbroe]

7.1 down on split 3

[wwbroe]

Little mistake by Ott over there now, that will cost him stage victory

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gulp... steady Ott.

[wwbroe]

Flat tyre left front for Ott

[meh]

Wow - Tanak's newer tyres paying off !

or exploding off. All effort erased.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Another tyre delamination !!

How ? 'Ask Pirelli !'

[TypeR]

Fk pirellis

[EstWRC]

I can’t believe this

[wwbroe]

But will still take the lead i suppose

[Kras]

Lol at Pirelli. Fucking hilarious

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Saw the snow spraying up, should've realised it was a tyre going.

[EstWRC]

The gap would have been like 8 seconds

But I must say Ott was very lucky where it happened, if it would have been fast corner he would be out

[ferrial]

Pretty bad moment to get a delaminated tyre, quite dangerous.

[Tauri_J]

Ogier and Ostberg must be laughing

[Eli]

Have to say this stage was pretty tense, I honestly hope they won’t extend the contract beyond 2024 with Pirelli.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What is the opinion of tomorrows main stage(s) SS16/17 - are the straights long enough for a Hyundai power advantage to help Breen ?

[wwbroe]

Huttunen stopped

[RS]

Solberg super quick on this stage or Rally1s taking it easy?

[doubled1978]

The gap would have been like 8 seconds

But I must say Ott was very lucky where it happened, if it would have been fast corner he would be out

I think he was doubly unlucky as it happened literally as he was about to hit the brake pedal.
I suppose its all this running at top speed that’s causing the issues, the stages have too much time on the limiter.

[dupanton]

Huttunen stopped

Commentators really have no clue, it's the engine according to them...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Answers please, Pirelli Motorsport ?! :crazy:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FosvUmVXwAIzCuZ?format=jpg&name=medium

[Tauri_J]

What is the opinion of tomorrows main stage(s) SS16/17 - are the straights long enough for a Hyundai power advantage to help Breen ?

Weather could play a part also. Up to +6 degrees

[KKS]

So Julian, how about 'not old Skoda' feeling now.. nearly new car, of course

[Boosted Launch]

Answers please, Pirelli Motorsport ?! :crazy:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FosvUmVXwAIzCuZ?format=jpg&name=medium

He put the new tires on the rear then? Or did he cross them?

[seb_sh]

Good tyre strategy by Tanak, if not for the delaminations he would have a nice lead. Pirelli really need to do something this is getting dangerous.

[EstWRC]

He put the new tires on the rear then? Or did he cross them?

On the rear

Damn brilliant strategy but nothing in the end. So disappointed

[Mise]

I think finnish cmore analytics gave the answer:
Jari Ketomaa said that Pirelli's studs are installed when the melted rubber is casted so the studs won't get off.
Riku Tahko said that normally when the studs go off you know the tyre is not good anymore and you need to slow down cause no grip.

When you think about those two analyses you get the answer.
The studs don't get off since they are casted and the driwers won't slow down so the the tyre just gets too much stress to the lamination
so that peels off.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer so this can be way off the truth.

[cali]

I think finnish cmore analytics gave the answer:
Jari Ketomaa said that Pirelli's studs are installed when the melted rubber is casted so the studs won't get off.
Riku Tahko said that normally when the studs go off you know the tyre is not good anymore and you need to slow down cause no grip.

When you think about those two analyses you get the answer.
The studs don't get off since they are casted and the driwers won't slow down so the the tyre just gets too much stress to the lamination
so that peels off.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer so this can be way off the truth.Anyway this is somekind of an explanation. Thanks!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

I wouldn’t surprised if we see more on the final stage.

Everybody is just out of tires already and having very used ones

[dimviii]

I think finnish cmore analytics gave the answer:
Jari Ketomaa said that Pirelli's studs are installed when the melted rubber is casted so the studs won't get off.
Riku Tahko said that normally when the studs go off you know the tyre is not good anymore and you need to slow down cause no grip.

When you think about those two analyses you get the answer.
The studs don't get off since they are casted and the driwers won't slow down so the the tyre just gets too much stress to the lamination
so that peels off.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer so this can be way off the truth.

yes thats right,but always pirellis studs were installed at casting,and michelins after casting.Its not a new method,so something else is the reason.

[bandit12]

At least there will be no cruising sunday tomorrow...

[EstWRC]

I hope they add more splits for tomorrows power stage

[seb_sh]

pressure getting to Craig

[EstWRC]

Okay it seems actually Tänak had the new tyre at the front which exploded

[meh]

pressure getting to Craig

he said he carries an issue.

But one thing for sure - he need to look carefully backmirrors as Neuville'n'Rovenperä express coming towards him tomorrow.

[Tauri_J]

Okay it seems actually Tänak had the new tyre at the front which exploded

I'm no rally driver but its obvious. Front tyres will take most of the beating. But who knows, could have been crossed also.

[bandit12]

Well u must admit. Mentally Tänak is strong. Maybe strongest of them all...

[meh]

I'm no rally driver but its obvious. Front tyres will take most of the beating. But who knows, could have been crossed also.

He said that he lost one good tire and needed to use "slick" on the last one.

[EstWRC]

he said he carries an issue.

But one thing for sure - he need to look carefully backmirrors as Neuville'n'Rovenperä express coming towards him tomorrow.

What issue?

[Tauri_J]

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12

[meh]

What issue?

I don't know, Seb asked but covered took the cable off, so we didn't here it even it was answered.

[mknight]

yes thats right,but always pirellis studs were installed at casting,and michelins after casting.Its not a new method,so something else is the reason.

Two relatively long stages with 140 kph average (never happened before), multiple maximum brakings then acceleration and little loose snow.

[meh]

Today - Only:
1. Neuville
2. Rovanperä +9.5
3. Tänak +10.5 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
4. Breen +21.7 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
5. Evans +443

[dupanton]

What issue?

Hybrid according to Abiteboul

[becher]

I think finnish cmore analytics gave the answer:
Jari Ketomaa said that Pirelli's studs are installed when the melted rubber is casted so the studs won't get off.
Riku Tahko said that normally when the studs go off you know the tyre is not good anymore and you need to slow down cause no grip.

When you think about those two analyses you get the answer.
The studs don't get off since they are casted and the driwers won't slow down so the the tyre just gets too much stress to the lamination
so that peels off.

EDIT: I'm not an engineer so this can be way off the truth.

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Today - Only:
1. Neuville
2. Rovanperä +9.5
3. Tänak +10.5 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
4. Breen +21.7 (puncture, + slow down because Lappi)
5. Evans +443

The usual Neuville comeback. At least here he had an excuse for his poor Friday with sickness and a missed test day.

But he really does need to get his set-up right in testing though. Every rally he struggles with car on day 1 and is put on the back foot.

[AMSS]

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.

The studs actually do come off on Pirellis as well as Michelins in many cases. Michelins have a lot stiffer carcass which allows to run on significantly lower cold pressure, this helps give some more lifetime to the tires/keeping the studs intact.
In the conditions seen today with temperatures below zero and frozen gravel it`s the worst possible scenario for any tire. I think this is just a case which has never been seen in testing with long loops where the tire is never allowed to cool down and therefore overheats causing the problems, I am in no way a fan off Pirelli in fact quit the opposite but the combination seen today with the new heavy and powerful rally 1 cars the conditions and the high speeds must be the reason to these failures. Something that is really hard to anticipate.

[becher]

The usual Neuville comeback. At least here he had an excuse for his poor Friday with sickness and a missed test day.

But he really does need to get his set-up right in testing though. Every rally he struggles with car on day 1 and is put on the back foot.

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thought the same, instead of just losing the studs, when the studs go they damage the tyre which then leads to the failiures.

So proving that its Michelin who know what they're doing...

[cali]

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.Yes, he did well on Friday and was not much behind from Kalle. He has been driving well throughout the rally.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[bwallace]

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yesterdays pace was as much a reflection of his road position than anything else.

Rovanpera opened the road all day and drove the afternoon in the ruts of the smaller cars.... and was still faster.

Neuville needs to be taking time in these situations if he's ever to get the title.

[AMSS]

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires

[mknight]

do you remember 2019 condition in south sweden ? there was much warmer than today and no one tyres lost protector like pirelli got today...

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower

[bwallace]

Exactly what I wrote, frozen gravel is the worst, soft gravel/warmer snowy conditions is a lot easier for the studded tires

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...

[bwallace]

Quite a lot of differences in the tires favor:
-slush/water that both cool tires down and reduce grip
- twisty stages with crests/jumps, much lower speeds
- quite a bit lighter cars
-120 less horspower

not much love if we compare 2020 average speed is even higher than 2022 rally....

[mknight]

2020 was frozen gravel and i remeber that no one michelin tyre got some like today pireli...

In 2020 they added extra tire allowance and extra tire changing zones as precaution, as well as moving second passes to a different day.

And off course lighter and less powerful cars.

[hari]

Some pictures from Saturday: https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_schweden_2023.html

https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/1.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/2.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/3.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/4.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/7.jpghttps://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2023/sweden4/9.jpg

[bwallace]

yeah and in 2023 when have not so warm weather much more snow and bit longer rally with more straight which allow tyre cool down... and more tyre off than before...

[becher]

So proving that its Michelin who know what they're doing...

Thats a senseless conclusion based on a mere theory.

[Rallyper]

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12

My son Simon was at the spot. Also Huttunen had moment same corner. Had to be pushed.

Actually it was the sport of whole Saturday.

[becher]

The studs actually do come off on Pirellis as well as Michelins in many cases. Michelins have a lot stiffer carcass which allows to run on significantly lower cold pressure, this helps give some more lifetime to the tires/keeping the studs intact.
In the conditions seen today with temperatures below zero and frozen gravel it`s the worst possible scenario for any tire. I think this is just a case which has never been seen in testing with long loops where the tire is never allowed to cool down and therefore overheats causing the problems, I am in no way a fan off Pirelli in fact quit the opposite but the combination seen today with the new heavy and powerful rally 1 cars the conditions and the high speeds must be the reason to these failures. Something that is really hard to anticipate.

I didn't claim Pirellis don't lose their studs, it was a mere theory what could contribute to those failures. None of us really knows what is the reason for it.

[bwallace]

Yeah finally they open eyes (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-teams-call-on-pirelli-to-investigate-tire-failures/)

[ferrial]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rallirahvas/permalink/2218090018373071/?sfnsn=mo&ref=share Picture of Tanak's tyre from Estonian rally forum.

[bwallace]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rallirahvas/permalink/2218090018373071/?sfnsn=mo&ref=share Picture of Tanak's tyre from Estonian rally forum.

it is insane the protector just take off all studs in the tyre look fine...

[EstWRC]

Sudrallye video https://youtu.be/n1OvyiX_RKs

[TypeR]

but look at the difference between Tanak's and Breen's tyres..
One delaminated only on the ,,rolling/touching side'', another like a snake.. all together(sides and rollong side)

https://www.upload.ee/image/14924872/IMG_20230211_214334.jpg

[Oliverk]

https://i.imgur.com/8Kx7G46.png

[denkimi]

Rovanpera opened the road all day and drove the afternoon in the ruts of the smaller cars.... and was still faster.

Neuville needs to be taking time in these situations if he's ever to get the title.
But neuville drives the crap hyundai while rovanpera driver the superior toyota.

Or so that is what some want us to believe

[EstWRC]

I said today I have praised Kalle but today I’m a bit critical

Honestly I expected more of him today and seems he has still some learning to do how to better preserve the tires

Well he even says it himself https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-wasnt-clever-enough-with-his-use-of-tires/

[bwallace]

2384
This is from 2021 so they prepared for lower temperature it's not something new today that wasn't so cold...

[drive]

2384
This is from 2021 so they prepared for lower temperature it's not something new today that wasn't so cold...

of course its not about minus temp, its about speed/pressure tyres were taking... Top 3 drivers - same tyre fault.... clear those 3 have reached the tyre limit .... so loads of data for the next year, in testing you cant reach those loads

[Eli]

I heard Thierry saying this yesterday: SS6 @RallySweden ����

⏱️ 6:40.8 - 4th fastest so far

"It's not possible to drive like this. I have understeer in every corner, I'm at full-lock in sixth gear."

and I was wondering, does the car have 6th gear and they (Hyundai or the FIA in their regulations) didn't tell us or did Thierry forget he doesn't have 6th gear or that i20 actually has 6th gear and it was a slip of the tongue by Neuville?

[Tauri_J]

All Rally1 cars have 5 speed boxes

[Eli]

All Rally1 cars have 5 speed boxes

I'm aware, that's why I found his comment odd.

[focus206]

Good day by Neuville and Tanak. Kalle not as fast as I expected, but I still think he'll get the podium.
Excluding issues, I don't see Breen beating Tanak tomorrow. Rather, he has a 15 seconds lead over Neuville and Rovanpera who will push, so Craig must deliver.
Evans still quite lost...

[Sergiow]

https://fb.watch/iDzcpFDQao/

Lucky escape by Breen on SS12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-sUfvWt5c0&t=550s

Here is the complete video of the same spot. Maybe one of the best fan video tapes ever made, it contains everything you love about rally:
- one hell of a (corner) spot
- extremely helpful and inventive crowd when in need
- only 1 filmer ( still shame on the Monte crowd in that frozen corner spot)
- all competitors freed and could continue
- attentive and colloborative marshals
- some very lucky escapees like Breen

[bwallace]

of course its not about minus temp, its about speed/pressure tyres were taking... Top 3 drivers - same tyre fault.... clear those 3 have reached the tyre limit .... so loads of data for the next year, in testing you cant reach those loads

i think they at test they push as hell as they do in proper rally so how they f.ucking test the car or you want to say they testing all in rally ? just insane how tyres blow with pirreli supply and before entering to top lvl they had a test for tyres...

[HarriK]

Lappi still sitting in a car like a queen.. Go out and help to showel ffs..Seriously?
No way out of drivers door. He trusted that we do the job because he realised that he know all of us and we will do our best and he was ready for every try out of snow bank.
Yes I was there.

Lähetetty minun AC2003 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[dimviii]

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/

[TypeR]

Seriously?
No way out of drivers door. He trusted that we do the job because he realised that he know all of us and we will do our best and he was ready for every try out of snow bank.
Yes I was there.

Lähetetty minun AC2003 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
Seriously, yes.
7+min is enough time to realise to get out and do something, but let it be.
Nothing surprising and like expected.. all the blame is on teams/drivers.. (not shitty tyres.)
Why should they use low pressures if the stages are sooo fast + Hyundai is so much faster anyway(on straights).
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/

[bwallace]

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/

next step will be tyre pressures was to hight...

[Tauri_J]

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/

Ugh they better not try to start mandating tyre pressures like in F1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/

Tyre pressures were too low, lower than at the start and lower than they've ever seen... bizarre.

[becher]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rallirahvas/permalink/2218090018373071/?sfnsn=mo&ref=share Picture of Tanak's tyre from Estonian rally forum.
Well that killes my theory.

[becher]

Ugh they better not try to start mandating tyre pressures like in F1

Why not?

[drive]

PIRELLI ISSUES ROBUST DEFENSE OF TIRE ISSUES
RALLY ACTIVITY MANAGER TERENZIO TESTONI SAID TIRE PRESSURES THAT WERE TOO LOW WERE A FACTOR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirelli-issues-robust-defense-of-tire-issues/
yes, low pressure after delimination... what else would you get????

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But what about the snow tyres running on the gravel... surely this would (over) heat them increasing the pressures ?

[Scaha]

But what about the snow tyres running on the gravel... surely this would (over) heat them increasing the pressures ?

There’s no such high temperature changes which could make a significant change in a tire pressure.

[drive]

But what about the snow tyres running on the gravel... surely this would (over) heat them increasing the pressures ?

been like that many times... most extreem 2020 sweden and speed then was unreal on the solid frozen gravel roads without any ice... ok, then was michelin :)
you must understand how studs are working - they need something to bite in: eather ice or frozen gravel... on gravel they would overheat, and on michelin they would fly away... one by one... on pireli they just rip off part of tyre... different production style...
I've driven both michelin and pireli spyked tyres, both were OK for me :) I'm not yet up tp these 3 top drivers who managed to tore away a racing spyked tyre :)
spykes on gravel like https://youtu.be/_dUgFxrqayY?t=33

[denkimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-sUfvWt5c0&t=550s

Here is the complete video of the same spot. Maybe one of the best fan video tapes ever made, it contains everything you love about rally:
- one hell of a (corner) spot
- extremely helpful and inventive crowd when in need
- only 1 filmer ( still shame on the Monte crowd in that frozen corner spot)
- all competitors freed and could continue
- attentive and colloborative marshals
- some very lucky escapees like Breen
Great video.

I kinda wonder: do they deliberately set the cars up to have more oversteer to be able to lean on the snowbanks with the rear? Cause it seems any understeer would immediately ruin your rally.

[becher]

There’s no such high temperature changes which could make a significant change in a tire pressure.
I don't know the specifics of spikes on snow, but generally speaking the temperature change is significant enough to change the pressure when a car is driven hard.

[Fredouye]

A few photos from SS 9/12/15

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/cfad80e9089d041dc445cd5f491a6c96.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/b7ee2a350098f2d8d93dd00d366affdf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/d43e42b505178e0af701b5596b9d47d4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/443e255567476a46014a8c198f826b2b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/feebe486563a4e22023e478a67e3764b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/c2e9fb74d5f64a312e76ba7c6e541473.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/4b329edd144b72266dabb2b65828c9b3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230212/15438117d990570ac2a7e3680ea8caaa.jpg

[janneppi]

Does pirelli set a minimum tyre pressure for it's tyres?
If they do and teams run under that lt would not be Pirellis fault.


Sent from my Takapalk.

[TypeR]

Lower tyre pressure should mean more prone to punctures and lower top speed..? I doubt they would do that on so fast stages..

[bandit12]

Did i saw correctly. Yesterday on meet the crews interwiew time, Neuville sat allredy on second place drivers sitting place? 😃
Can Breen keep his second place today?

[Tauri_J]

Lower tyre pressure should mean more prone to punctures and lower top speed..? I doubt they would do that on so fast stages..

Its all about grip and preserving tyres

[AnttiL]

Lower tyre pressure should mean more prone to punctures and lower top speed..? I doubt they would do that on so fast stages..

Low pressure likely gives more grip

[dimviii]

Does pirelli set a minimum tyre pressure for it's tyres?
If they do and teams run under that lt would not be Pirellis fault.


Sent from my Takapalk.

all tyre manufacturers give a window of pressures,and if that happened, it is not he first time they choosed a lower pressure to gain grip.

[Dontcut]

I didn't catch whole story, but in Estonian Tv6 they discussed smth about Ott's 1,2bar?

[TypeR]

This stage is very narrow in some places and a lot of snow

[Tauri_J]

Banks look higher there because plows cant plow the top part of snowbanks away.

[Boosted Launch]

Don't know if it is Breen and Neuville's driving style vs Tanak and Kalle's, but it seems like the Hyundai is really jerky in corners and it is bouncing around a lot over minor disturbances, seems to be a big negative on a stage like this.

[EstWRC]

Tänak just can’t rest. Lost the brakes in second half of the stage

Good there is flexi service now

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice start Ott. Keep it going.

[Rallyper]

This stage shows which guys in WRC2 dare to drive in the fast corners. Some like it better.

[dimviii]

Lost the brakes in second half of the stage


lost the brakes,or lost the braking at few corners?

[EstWRC]

lost the brakes,or lost the braking at few corners?

To be honest didn’t understand fully. But it couldn’t been big problem if we are watching the time

But after they finished Martin mentioned the brakes right away

[cali]

lost the brakes,or lost the braking at few corners?Brake issue

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Päss1928]

I didn't catch whole story, but in Estonian Tv6 they discussed smth about Ott's 1,2bar?

At some point right before the delamination, Martin said tyre pressure 1.2. They then discussed that the minimum recommended pressure for the stud generally (not wrc stud), is higher, 1.8bar. So they discussed that maybe they were all indeed driving with tyre pressures under minimum.

[dimviii]

At some point right before the delamination, Martin said tyre pressure 1.2. They then discussed that the minimum recommended pressure for the stud generally (not wrc stud), is higher, 1.8bar. So they discussed that maybe they were all indeed driving with tyre pressures under minimum.

how Martin knew that they had only 1,2 bar? Do they know that some alarm is under 1,2 bar?
but if they had 1,2 bar this is very low,no wonder about the delamination.

[Päss1928]

how Martin knew that they had only 1,2 bar? Do they know that some alarm is under 1,2 bar?
but if they had 1,2 bar this is very low,no wonder about the delamination.

They have a reading in the car apparently. Might be that I misunderstood something too, but Martin clearly said 1.2bar sth..