WRC Calendar 2023

[Eli]

Apart from the FIA & promoter saying they want 14 events with 8 in Europe & 6 outside of Europe, is there any news concerning next year’s calendar?
Will Spain still be there or are they rotating with Germany?
Also, does anyone know what happened to Mexico? they announced they’ll be next year a couple of weeks ago and then they taken away all the posts about it.

[rallyfiend]

6 outside Europe would certainly bring it back to being a 'World' championship. Should be a good calendar.

[bomber21]

Acropolis Rally has a contract for 2023 as well.

[Eli]

While the Cyprus Rally is too expensive for the ERC: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/artikel/3-staedte-rallye-als-finale-der-europameisterschaft-48788/ apparently the promoter & FIA are looking into it for 2023 in the WRC, according to this article: https://www.rallit.fi/ksml-rallin-mm-sarjaan-tulossa-kaksi-uutta-eurooppalaista-kilpailua/
the calendar will be known during August.

[er88]

Apart from the FIA & promoter saying they want 14 events with 8 in Europe & 6 outside of Europe, is there any news concerning next year’s calendar?
Will Spain still be there or are they rotating with Germany?
Also, does anyone know what happened to Mexico? they announced they’ll be next year a couple of weeks ago and then they taken away all the posts about it.Mexico have signed a deal with the promoter. They'll be on the calendar

[Danny0405]

Skeptical about a 6-abroad rally calendar in terms of cost, all the more with some places not that good in terms of marketing (+ when we see the Finnish article, sounds to be 6 + Cyprus as there are talking about Middle-East and 2 American events). But if the logistics mutualisation between events is well done, why not but it would be even more than the most on Loeb’s era with a 16-event calendar (the most was 5 + Turkey or 5 + Cyprus). Already trying to get back to 4 or 5 would have sounded more cautious to me.
With such a type of calendar, a 7-round WRC-2 program could be complicated to create for some drivers.

Cyprus is a non-sense to me with a Greek rally already there + a Middle-East one.
And no rally in neither Spain nor Portugal is even more a non-sense to me. And all the more with adding Latvia whereas Estonia and Finland are already there.

Last point is that with what is evoked, the tarmac/gravel is even more ruined.

For me, we should keep absolutely as the core basis (3 tarmac, 1 fast gravel, 2 slow gravel)
Monte Carlo, Safari, Finland, Greece, Catalunya, Japan.

Then add:
- 2 tarmac rallies among Barum, Ypres, Croatia, a German one and an Italian one (Roma or San Remo).
- 1 snow rally (most logical is Sweden at the moment but why not try something else considering some of the issues of the last years)
- 1 fast gravel, most logical being Estonia (and else Latvia or Poland)
- 1 slow gravel in Oceania (NZ logically)
- 1 gravel in America (Mexico?)
- 1 gravel rally in Europe, either a UK one Wales-type or Portugal (not really convinced by Sardegna organization)
- a last one whatever it is.

[WRCStan]

Skeptical about a 6-abroad rally calendar in terms of cost, all the more with some places not that good in terms of marketing

Where's not that good? Europe is a sick man in marketing terms and is way over-represented, wouldn't be surprised if Toyota are happy to shift the other teams about!

A Saudi desert road event sounds good for the championship in variety and appeal. Don't know for entertainment quality, doesn't even have to be an existing event. (I'm sure Sulland is positive on a Saudi round too!)

I guess adding Mexico, Chile, Kenya, Japan, Nz makes the 6, if ruling out Argentina and Oz, but doesn't mean all 6 are delivered. Hopefully they don't give any TBA for the UK again, don't waste anybody's time. Though the lack of tarmac is sad, need to replace Catalunya at minimum. Latvia and Cyprus are... meh.

[AndyRAC]

Cyprus...why? We already have plenty of dusty, gravel European events - and the Acropolis have a deal. WRC needs more tarmac, I've never understood the problem the FiA have with it. And I agree above about binning the UK.....until there is a proper bid for a mainland event, forget it.

My only concern is costs; 14 rounds is a lot for a sport struggling for manufacturers, sponsors, etc Going to 16 in the mid 00's was an error.

[Dontcut]

6 outside Europe would certainly bring it back to being a 'World' championship. Should be a good calendar.

But more uncomfortable to watch live all stages when they are half a day in different time zone. As a european.
Last rally which was on complete different time zone was Mexico just before Covid kicked in. Some of us hardly remember what is like to stay up at night to watch rally.

[Kenneth]

There were some rumours that Sardegna might be out and replaced by Rome.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-eyeing-2023-middle-east-round-usa-expansion-plans-continue/10344438/

Perhaps the rumours from Finland were more accurate then some initially thought.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/schlagzeilen/artikel/rallye-wm-2023-ohne-deutschland-48824/

Unfortunately, no Rally Deutschland comeback for the 2023 calendar, just makes me even happier and more grateful for going there back in 2019. The promoter & FIA seem keen in bringing Saudi Arabia & a rally in the US for next year, so 6 rallies outside of Europe for next year it seems. I do wonder though, which European rally will they put instead in August (as that's the usual slot for the tarmac rally).

[AndyRAC]

If they can't get in the WRC, maybe they need to try the ERC.....I always thought Germany was an important market. Who knows anymore.......

[KiwiWRCfan]

Did anyone pick up on Julian Porter's words as Hayden Paddon approached end of SS17 Patajoki 2. Does he know something or is it just hopeful speculation.

[Tauri_J]

Did anyone pick up on Julian Porter's words as Hayden Paddon approached end of SS17 Patajoki 2. Does he know something or is it just hopeful speculation.

What did he said?

[cali]

What did he said?Full Rally2 campaign in 2023

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[Eli]

I think he (Paddon) mentioned that before the start of this year’s campaign. But coming back to topic, were there any mentions of next year’s calendar in Finland?

[Eli]

http://rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=19110

Not sure how reliable they are but if they are correct, this is the draft calendar, which wasn't shown in the last WMSC meeting:

"This panorama is expressed in the draft as follows:

January 19-22- Monte Carlo Rally
February 08-12-Rally Sweden
month of March- Rally of Mexico
month of April- Rally of Croatia
month of April- Rally of Argentina or Chile
month of May- Rally of Portugal
month of June- Rally of Italy
month of June- Rally of Kenya
July-Rally Estonia
month of July- Rally Finland
month of August- Rally of New Zealand
month of September- Rally of Greece
month of October- Rally of Japan
to define- Rally of Saudi Arabia

The definitive calendar should be known next October."

Don't know why they had to 'kill' most of the tarmac rounds, from 5 we're down to 3..That's disappointing to say the least, no Germany, no Spain or Corsica ? Not to mention the fact the WRC won't be in Northern Ireland or Ireland for that matter :/ Too many gravel events in my book, and how come Estonia is still there? (no offense but I'd rather see a tarmac round instead).

[focus206]

http://rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?lang=es&id_noticia=19110

Not sure how reliable they are but if they are correct, this is the draft calendar, which wasn't shown in the last WMSC meeting:

"This panorama is expressed in the draft as follows:

January 19-22- Monte Carlo Rally
February 08-12-Rally Sweden
month of March- Rally of Mexico
month of April- Rally of Croatia
month of April- Rally of Argentina or Chile
month of May- Rally of Portugal
month of June- Rally of Italy
month of June- Rally of Kenya
July-Rally Estonia
month of July- Rally Finland
month of August- Rally of New Zealand
month of September- Rally of Greece
month of October- Rally of Japan
to define- Rally of Saudi Arabia

The definitive calendar should be known next October."

Don't know why they had to 'kill' most of the tarmac rounds, from 5 we're down to 3..That's disappointing to say the least, no Germany, no Spain or Corsica ? Not to mention the fact the WRC won't be in Northern Ireland or Ireland for that matter :/ Too many gravel events in my book, and how come Estonia is still there? (no offense but I'd rather see a tarmac round instead).

WTF... only Monte, Croatia and Japan as tarmac? Pathetic. Yes, I'm sure Saudi Arabia, country with great motorsport tradition, deserves a spot...

[Eli]

WTF... only Monte, Croatia and Japan as tarmac? Pathetic. Yes, I'm sure Saudi Arabia, country with great motorsport tradition, deserves a spot...

Yeah, my thoughts exactly...

[Eli]

The proposed calendar back in 2019 for 2020 was much better than this; okay swap out Turkey for Greece but still.

[EstWRC]

That site usually isn’t that reliable and I hope they aren’t also this time

[Eli]

That site usually isn’t that reliable and I hope they aren’t also this time

I really hope they aren’t and that we get (at least) one more Tarmac rally.

[seb_sh]

WTF... only Monte, Croatia and Japan as tarmac? Pathetic. Yes, I'm sure Saudi Arabia, country with great motorsport tradition, deserves a spot...

$$$$$

[cali]

FIA president is from Middle East

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[Sal yet again]

Has there been a candidate/test event there? If its a typical desert rally perhaps hoping Nasser or another Middle East driver will win...

Also not very sustainable expecting the circus/media etc to fly back from Mexico then back to Sth America in a matter of weeks.

[AnttiL]

Also not very sustainable expecting the circus/media etc to fly back from Mexico then back to Sth America in a matter of weeks.

Would it be more sustainable to do it with two months in between? It's not possible to do the events so quickly back to back that everyone could go directly from event to another. The service gear moves slowly from Mexico to South America in several weeks. This has been the same in the past as well, Corsica was driven between Mexico and Argentina from 2017 to 2019.

2019 Argentina and Chile were an exception, they were driven with a two week gap and linked cars. Some drivers even stayed the time in South America, some chose to fly home in between.

As for the whole calendar, I don't know if they can just pick and choose events like "we choose to have X tarmac rallies". They have to take what is available or with best contracts. I don't think Ypres ever was planning to be a permanent round, it has been just a substitute event now for two years in a row. As for Catalunya, I have no idea what's going on, they already had one year off and came back as full tarmac.

Not personally happy about a rally in the Saudis, but competionally it could be interesting.

[Sal yet again]

Appreciate that logistics arent always straightforward factoring in Customs clearance etc its more about perception in the outside world going forwards I guess. The hacks will be ok clocking up the airmiles however thought the FIA and the promoters might have been a bit more interested in showing a more joined up approach than just random events going to the highest bidders.

Shame about Cataluyna if true as IMO we need a proper race track tarmac event as the cars look that much better in full tarmac spec than with those gaping wheel arches.

Other than Estonia ( and not wishing to upset anyone there despite the amount of Ott fans and their passion, its just too similar in "look" to Finland) it appears to be a good calendar with a nice mix of "classics" and newer entries. Not crying about our lack of a UK event, its clear we neither want or deserve a round even with a home grown ex WRC Champion as the head of the sport here or an ex WRC Champion in a senior FIA position. If they can't help grease the wheels the drought will continue.

[Eli]

Appreciate that logistics arent always straightforward factoring in Customs clearance etc its more about perception in the outside world going forwards I guess. The hacks will be ok clocking up the airmiles however thought the FIA and the promoters might have been a bit more interested in showing a more joined up approach than just random events going to the highest bidders.

Shame about Cataluyna if true as IMO we need a proper race track tarmac event as the cars look that much better in full tarmac spec than with those gaping wheel arches.

Other than Estonia ( and not wishing to upset anyone there despite the amount of Ott fans and their passion, its just too similar in "look" to Finland) it appears to be a good calendar with a nice mix of "classics" and newer entries. Not crying about our lack of a UK event, its clear we neither want or deserve a round even with a home grown ex WRC Champion as the head of the sport here or an ex WRC Champion in a senior FIA position. If they can't help grease the wheels the drought will continue.

I'd still argue, again, no offense to Estonian fans, it would be better to have another Tarmac event, whether it's Spain or Germany but since both apparently don't seem important enough for the FIA & Promoter it's hard to see them back on the calendar or for any tarmac event to replace them for next year. My only hope is they (the ASNs) won't quit and will try to come back to the WRC calendar for 2024.

[wyler]

I'd still argue, again, no offense to Estonian fans, it would be better to have another Tarmac event, whether it's Spain or Germany but since both apparently don't seem important enough for the FIA & Promoter it's hard to see them back on the calendar or for any tarmac event to replace them for next year. My only hope is they (the ASNs) won't quit and will try to come back to the WRC calendar for 2024.

only hope is the rumored 3 stadt rally in the 3 country version...

[Eli]

only hope is the rumored 3 stadt rally in the 3 country version...

You mean Austria-Czech Republic-Germany? that hope?

[wyler]

You mean Austria-Czech Republic-Germany? that hope?

yup, at the moment, it seems the most realistic tarmac new entry...

[Co-driven]

That site usually isn’t that reliable and I hope they aren’t also this time

I heard from a good source in Finland this same calendar, only exception was that it was either Chile or nothing (for sure no Argentina).

And also Saudi Arabia in early December was something highlighted as 100% confirmed.

[Eli]

I heard from a good source in Finland this same calendar, only exception was that it was either Chile or nothing (for sure no Argentina).

And also Saudi Arabia in early December was something highlighted as 100% confirmed.

So down from 5 events on tarmac to 3?? That's really disappointing to say the least. And what? they'll have a 2 month break between Japan & Saudi Arabia at the end of the season? no the FIA & promoter have completely lost it, honestly, the levels of stupidity (& probably corruption) are beyond compare.

[Eli]

I'm aware they're not the most reliable source yet now they claim the 8th spot in Europe is between Spain & Portugal: http://rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?id_noticia=19128

[bomber21]

I'm aware they're not the most reliable source yet now they claim the 8th spot in Europe is between Spain & Portugal: http://rallynoticias.com/nivel2.php?id_noticia=19128

This article does not mention Croatia at all?

[Eli]

This article does not mention Croatia at all?

Yes I have no idea why, they wrote 8 events in Europe but then forgot to mention Croatia, hopefully it's just a mistake on their behalf.

[J4MIE]

Think Croatia had signed an agreement earlier this year? So must be in.

[Sergiow]

The "DH / Les Sports" news met the ex-director of Hyundai and organizer of the 'Ypres Rally', Alain Penasse:

Can we imagine seeing Ypres established on the calendar in 2023?
"No, because we have no support from the government. And, without that, it's impossible when you have to pay the normal set rights, i.e. between 1.5 million and 5 million. At 100 euros a ticket, you would have to that half of Belgium come to watch the rally so that we get by. There is a greater desire from many other countries to have a round of the WRC in their country. With us, we have to apply for three years in advance to hope to receive a budget from the government. When I see what it grants to cycling, it is painful."

And does the federation support you enough?
"She is doing what she can with her means. There is a desire to have a Belgian round of the WRC, but the problem remains the same: money!"

[flat_right]

There was an interview with Urmo Aava (Director of Rally Estonia). Currently the situation is that they have an offer to organize the event in 2023 and extend it to until 2026. They are waiting for the government decision about how much they can support this event. Ticket sales were so-so. About 30 000 unique spectators, of which half of them had the rally pass and other half bought daily tickets.

[Eli]

There was an interview with Urmo Aava (Director of Rally Estonia). Currently the situation is that they have an offer to organize the event in 2023 and extend it to until 2026. They are waiting for the government decision about how much they can support this event. Ticket sales were so-so. About 30 000 unique spectators, of which half of them had the rally pass and other half bought daily tickets.

& if they don’t get the support from the government, will the FIA bring a different European event or just let it slide and have 1 event less?

[flat_right]

& if they don’t get the support from the government, will the FIA bring a different European event or just let it slide and have 1 event less?

In the same interview it was mentioned that they see Latvia or Cyprus as the potential additions to the calendar. This info is from Simon Larkin and not from Aava.

[EstWRC]

There was an interview with Urmo Aava (Director of Rally Estonia). Currently the situation is that they have an offer to organize the event in 2023 and extend it to until 2026. They are waiting for the government decision about how much they can support this event. Ticket sales were so-so. About 30 000 unique spectators, of which half of them had the rally pass and other half bought daily tickets.

That’s a really low number

Lower when it was candidate event but it’s their own fault also partly with boring spectator places

[Eli]

Anyone here has the number of spectators for Finland?

[flat_right]

That’s a really low number

Lower when it was candidate event but it’s their own fault also partly with boring spectator places

Yeah, they said that because there are no restrictions because of covid, the summer was full other events and they consider their number good. I would say also that it is rather low and for me it was the price and I would be really surprised if they don't lower it for next year (if the event will take place).

[AndersX]

I doubt we would see big spectator numbers on stages any more, at least not in Europe. All-live for hardcore fans, different alternatives to the left and right, plus, spectating rally nowadays is not that cool any more - in majority of cases you are allowed to designated areas only, where you have to sit all day. It was an adventure in the past - today, due to security demands - close to nature racing event. New reality even for organizers.

[cali]

That’s a really low number

Lower when it was candidate event but it’s their own fault also partly with boring spectator placesBoring places and AllLive. Also Tänak's lack of success before Estonia.
But on the other hand you got no traffic jams and this is very comfortable for organizer and spectators as well.
And I doubt rally pass prices will go lower, if the event goes on than 100 € pass is likely.

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[flat_right]

And I doubt rally pass prices will go lower, if the event goes on than 100 € pass is likely.


When Aava visited rally studio during the event, Kalev Kruus directly asked him that if he thought that pass price was too high and Aava admitted that maybe a bit too high (I think by then he already had some first numbers about ticket sales) and said that ideally it would have been around 70€ and this is a thing they will look into next year. So based on this and low numbers, I personally think that it would come down a bit or definitely stay the same.

[rallyfiend]

[QUOTE=AndersX;1307706]I doubt we would see big spectator numbers on stages any more, at least not in Europe. All-live for hardcore fans, different alternatives to the left and right, plus, spectating rally nowadays is not that cool any more - in majority of cases you are allowed to designated areas only, where you have to sit all day. It was an adventure in the past - today, due to security demands - close to nature racing event. New reality even for organizers.[/QUOTE

Seeing the numbers of spectators in Finland and Ypres I'm not sure I agree with this. And they are both heavily ticketed events.

I wonder if the general economic situation plus anxiety about the war was an Estonia-specific issue...

[AnttiL]

Anyone here has the number of spectators for Finland?

I think they are usually announced a couple of months later. But I would expect a huge number thanks to Kalle (and also first Summer WRC rally since 2019)

[Francis44]

I doubt we would see big spectator numbers on stages any more, at least not in Europe. All-live for hardcore fans, different alternatives to the left and right, plus, spectating rally nowadays is not that cool any more - in majority of cases you are allowed to designated areas only, where you have to sit all day. It was an adventure in the past - today, due to security demands - close to nature racing event. New reality even for organizers.

You must not be familiar with the Portuguese and Spanish rounds.

[bomber21]

I saw huge crowds in all rallies I have visited except Turkey.

Last year Acropolis rally was watched in the mountains by an unprecedented amount of fans.

[JLunen]

In Finland, the first pass in Harju did an all-time spectator record with 19 500 spectators. Interesting to hear what was the outcome of the whole rally.

[lmmjvss]

Someone said that they should go to places where rally is bigger, like somewhere in the UK or in the Ceskia? Im even thinking US should have a rally now. Saudi? Nah..

[Eli]

Someone said that they should go to places where rally is bigger, like somewhere in the UK or in the Ceskia? Im even thinking US should have a rally now. Saudi? Nah..

Yes, Ciesla said something like that at the time, but now they just seem to go and follow the money, bluntly I'd say, what happened to candidate events? Up until not long ago, each event that would want to enter the WRC had to have a candidate event and as far as I'm aware there isn't one being held for Saudi Arabia this year.

[skarderud]

If FIA starts to "sportwash" regimes like Saudi, they can include shitholecountries like Russia, china and north korea.

And they can put out a press-release that they confirm that they are corrupt pøkker that only thinking on theire own pocket than the sport they are hired to do better.

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[lmmjvss]

If FIA starts to "sportwash" regimes like Saudi, they can include shitholecountries like Russia, china and north korea.

And they can put out a press-release that they confirm that they are corrupt pøkker that only thinking on theire own pocket than the sport they are hired to do better.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


haha I wonder if FIA would ban America and the UK if they watched those Adam Curtis documentaries.
"Ok, the world is a mess. FIA will have just one championship from now on racing electric scooters in non-recognized countries: Barawa, Northern Cyprus, Padania, Szekely Land, South Ossetia, Ellan Vannin"
(all real places btw... they even have a "Paralell world cup" (soccer) under the CONIFA adm, since FIFA dont recognize them)

[wyler]

haha I wonder if FIA would ban America and the UK if they watched those Adam Curtis documentaries.
"Ok, the world is a mess. FIA will have just one championship from now on racing electric scooters in non-recognized countries: Barawa, Northern Cyprus, Padania, Szekely Land, South Ossetia, Ellan Vannin"
(all real places btw... they even have a "Paralell world cup" (soccer) under the CONIFA adm, since FIFA dont recognize them)

er...padania is not a real place. just a delirium from a bunch of xenophobes in italy.

[Steve Boyd]

Ellan Vannin is the Isle of Man - a Crown Dependant Territory. It is recognised by FIA as coming under the sporting jurisdiction of Motorsports UK from its geographical location.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjan-tulevaisuudesta-uusi-huhu/

According to Motoring News (link not provided, possibly just in the magazine), Chile won't happen for 2023. And European rounds would actually be same as this year (minus Ypres/GB). Mexico and Saudis are the two new events...

[Eli]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjan-tulevaisuudesta-uusi-huhu/

According to Motoring News (link not provided, possibly just in the magazine), Chile won't happen for 2023. And European rounds would actually be same as this year (minus Ypres/GB). Mexico and Saudis are the two new events...

Well at least we get to keep most of our tarmac rounds on the calendar, still annoyed by the fact that Saudi Arabia didn’t even have a candidate event, even though Mexico did host the rally of nations.

[AnttiL]

Mexico has arranged a WRC event for almost 20 years, they don't even really need a candidate event. But Rally of Nations was a nice way of saying "we still want to host WRC"

But nice to hear the European events remain as they are. Latvia and Cyprus aren't as good as Portugal and Spain (which were rumored to be dropped)

[Eli]

Mexico has arranged a WRC event for almost 20 years, they don't even really need a candidate event. But Rally of Nations was a nice way of saying "we still want to host WRC"

But nice to hear the European events remain as they are. Latvia and Cyprus aren't as good as Portugal and Spain (which were rumored to be dropped)

I honestly have no idea why Latvia needs to be in the WRC when you have Estonia there, tbh, no offense to Rally Estonia but I'd rather have Rally Argentina & if that's not possible another tarmac round instead, considering the fact we're losing our August tarmac slot.

[Jewy46]

Definitely need more tarmac rounds. Such a pity Rally Northern Ireland seems to be dead.

Rally Ireland which ran in 2007/2009 did not show the island's true potential, we really have fantastic and totally unique roads but running the event in the winter did not help.
If it was in the August slot it would be a great event even if it was confined to Northern Ireland.
Imagine Torr's Head with Rally1 cars tearing down it!

2308

2307

Anyway.....not to be

[AnttiL]

The article also says that Corsica is looking forward to arrange a rally again in addition to Latvia, Cyprus and Czech(!)

For me the number of tarmac rallies is not that important, more about the variety of events. Croatia and Catalunya are totally different events, and Ypres is also different to them.

[HKSjbg]

Definitely need more tarmac rounds. Such a pity Rally Northern Ireland seems to be dead.

Rally Ireland which ran in 2007/2009 did not show the island's true potential, we really have fantastic and totally unique roads but running the event in the winter did not help.
If it was in the August slot it would be a great event even if it was confined to Northern Ireland.
Imagine Torr's Head with Rally1 cars tearing down it!

2308

2307

Anyway.....not to be

Not to mention Slieve Gallion, Barnes Gap, Hamiltons Folly, Bucks Head, Gregorlough, McGaffins Corner…

[Eli]

The article also says that Corsica is looking forward to arrange a rally again in addition to Latvia, Cyprus and Czech(!)

For me the number of tarmac rallies is not that important, more about the variety of events. Croatia and Catalunya are totally different events, and Ypres is also different to them.

With that said, you still wouldn't want a calendar that had 2-3/14 events on tarmac right? MC is something else entirely although it’s on tarmac, you could also argue Croatia has a different character to Corsica & nothing (yet) on the calendar is quite like Catalunya or Ireland. By the way, saw some footage on twitter from this year’s Rally Japan’s stages, they are in for a challenge & the roads look absolutely beautiful in the mountains over there.

[AnttiL]

I think Monte + 2 tarmac rounds is the minimum if the total number of rallies is 14, but assuming there's also two fast gravel rallies and one snow event, so it's not just technical gravel all over the season

[Duvel]

I think Monte + 2 tarmac rounds is the minimum if the total number of rallies is 14, but assuming there's also two fast gravel rallies and one snow event, so it's not just technical gravel all over the season

For me there should be 4 or 5 tarmac rallys. Monte, Croatia, Japan. And than Germany, would prefer again in the winefields around the Mosel, agree that Ireland deserves a spot.

They should make some alterneting system between ERC and WRC, that way every rally can run a top event each year. Take Spain, Croatia, Germany, Ireland, Ypres in to that rotation. But keep the real big classics like Monte in wrc each year.
The calendar would be a bit refreshed every year. Also good for younger pilots, easyer to take on the fight whit expierensd drivers on fresh roads.

[Duvel]

The Classics;

Monte
Sweden
Mexico
Italy
Portugal
Finland
Greece
Japan

Alternating asfalt rallys could be;
Croatia and Corsica
Germany and Ypres
Spain and Ireland

Gravel could be
Latvia and Estonia
New Zealand and Australia
Argentina and chili
Jordan and Saudi Arabia
Turkey and Cyprus

Just my thoughts, probably never will happen, but i think most rallys could benefit from this system.

[AnttiL]

Japan is a classic? It (the tarmac rally) has never run in the WRC :D

Rotation is tricky for rallies because arranging a WRC event requires a big organization, some of it working all year, and it's difficult to take it down for one year out. Same with partner contracts, easier to make multi-year arrangements. Yes, stepping down to ERC for one year is one solution but for some rallies it works better than others. Some rallies get more funding from a motoring club / government while others are dependent on spectators. I don't think we would ever see ERC Rally Finland, it wouldn't just be commercially possible.

[Duvel]

Japan is a classic? It (the tarmac rally) has never run in the WRC :D

Rotation is tricky for rallies because arranging a WRC event requires a big organization, some of it working all year, and it's difficult to take it down for one year out. Same with partner contracts, easier to make multi-year arrangements. Yes, stepping down to ERC for one year is one solution but for some rallies it works better than others. Some rallies get more funding from a motoring club / government while others are dependent on spectators. I don't think we would ever see ERC Rally Finland, it wouldn't just be commercially possible.

Japan has history in WRC, also big market and Toyota is big player in WRC, so thats reason enough for Japan to be in.

Finland is no brainer, has to be in WRC, But like i said, most of the tarmac rallys i mentioned could survive by doing one year WRC than one year ERC.

Would also mean a upgrade for the ERC, some drivers doing that championship as a step up to the WRC.

[AnttiL]

Well let's first see how this year's Japan's event goes before deciding if it should have more future in the championship or not.

[WRCStan]

Can we still be open that Saudi might be tarmac?

Toyota sponsor the national https://www.saudi-championship.com/t-en which is a real mixed bag of Toyota friendly sports. One place to keep an eye on.

[Päss1928]

The Classics;

Monte
Sweden
Mexico
Italy
Portugal
Finland
Greece
Japan

.

What about Wales Rally GB?

[AnttiL]

What about Wales Rally GB?

Well, it's not organized anymore...but Safari should be on the list.

[AndyRAC]

What about Rally GB?

Not in its modern format it wasn't......and it's even less of a classic now. Not only is it not in the WRC, it no longer exists.

[rp]

Shame on FIA & WRC promoter if they are really going to Saudi Arabia! Almost the same as there would be WRC event next year in Russia.

[Eli]

Shame on FIA & WRC promoter if they are really going to Saudi Arabia! Almost the same as there would be WRC event next year in Russia.

As so many people here said before me ca$h is king, unfortunately.

[becher]

The Classics;

Monte
Sweden
Mexico
Italy
Portugal
Finland
Greece
Japan

Alternating asfalt rallys could be;
Croatia and Corsica
Germany and Ypres
Spain and Ireland

Gravel could be
Latvia and Estonia
New Zealand and Australia
Argentina and chili
Jordan and Saudi Arabia
Turkey and Cyprus

Just my thoughts, probably never will happen, but i think most rallys could benefit from this system.

Mexico?! Italy?! (Sardegna?) Japan!? Classics?
That is insulting. San Remo was a classic but generic gravel rally #5 on Sardegna.... TdC, Spain, New Zealand, Rally GB are classics.

[AnttiL]

Not in its modern format it wasn't......and it's even less of a classic now. Not only is it not in the WRC, it no longer exists.

Ah please...Wales-based Rally GB was run for over 20 years, definitely one of the classics. All rallies have been modernized. Monte, Tour de Corse, Safari, even Rally Finland.

Mexico and Sardinia are soon reaching 20 years, I still consider them "new" events, alongside Deutschland :D

[lmmjvss]

I always think Ypress is more of an ERC event. It doesnt look like a WRC round. Kinda like Monza haha idk...
The Rally in Argentina used to be one of my favorites... And its closer for me to attend. Never did.

[Eli]

Classic? Finland, Monte-Carlo, Sweden, Sanremo, Corsica, Safari, Acropolis, Argentina, NZ, Australia (when it was in Perth), Wales, & from the "new" events, Deutschland & Mexico, so yeah basically the whole calendar lol.

[WRCStan]

Classic? Back in my day we'd think nothing of a trip to Peking.

[Eli]

https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/simon-larkin-wrc-terrain-desertique.html

Basically saying it's a logistical challenge and implying a South American event won't be possible at the beginning of April since these days it takes 80 days for the cars to arrive instead of 45 days (pre-covid).

[rallyfiend]

https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/simon-larkin-wrc-terrain-desertique.html

Basically saying it's a logistical challenge and implying a South American event won't be possible at the beginning of April since these days it takes 80 days for the cars to arrive instead of 45 days (pre-covid).

I don't think it means the cars, more the other equipment.

Pretty sure the cars themselves will fly back and forth.

[Eli]

I don't think it means the cars, more the other equipment.

Pretty sure the cars themselves will fly back and forth.

yes, my bad.

[Eli]

To no one's surprise, Rally GB in Northern Ireland won't take place next year as they didn't get the funding: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/uk-set-to-miss-out-as-expanded-2023-wrc-calendar-progresses/10360922/

"Germany is among the new candidates in the mix to secure a spot on the calendar. The tarmac event made its WRC debut in 2002 and had been mainstay on the schedule, before hosting its last WRC round in 2019."

I was sure Germany out of the running for next year, glad to see it isn't.

[Duvel]

When asked about Ypres’ future, he replied: “We want to keep Ypres within our families of championships. “We would like to keep it in the ERC [European Rally Championship] so we have the ability to maybe occasionally come into the WRC.”

So rotation system is defintly an option it seems

[pucky54]

When asked about Ypres’ future, he replied: “We want to keep Ypres within our families of championships. “We would like to keep it in the ERC [European Rally Championship] so we have the ability to maybe occasionally come into the WRC.”

Noooooooooooooo!!!!

[Eli]

Did Rally Estonia get the extension until 2026?

[flat_right]

Did Rally Estonia get the extension until 2026?

In Estonian media there is no news about this or even if they will organize it next year. The situation is still the same that they received an offer for next year or make the full commitment until 2026. As I understood there is no other option (to go year by year). They are waiting for a decision from the government, if they can support it or not.

To be fair, I personally can't see that the government would support this event. We have the highest inflation in the EU and teachers, rescue workers, police etc need salary raise otherwise they will run out of people; also the cost of gas and electricity is out of the roof. Really hard to justify if we are organizing the event but can't find money to deal with real things. I really hope that we can still do it but I would understand if we have more important topics.

[Tom K]

I thought we (Poland) have the highest :D

[flat_right]

I thought we (Poland) have the highest :D

You wish... 23.2% vs 14.2%. And to quote a classic then "Those are rookie numbers" :D

https://prnt.sc/0nDxH1QQdq4H

[Eli]

You wish... 23.2% vs 14.2%. And to quote a classic then "Those are rookie numbers" :D

https://prnt.sc/0nDxH1QQdq4H

Now I'm curious, from where are these numbers?

[WRCStan]

Now I'm curious, from where are these numbers?

EU/Eurostat numbers which are 'harmonised' and slightly different to what the states report if that's what you are asking.

[Tauri_J]

Those Are old numbers. Its over 25 now.

[apostolis95]

Why we have only one rally in snow every season? I love rallies in snow, and i think we must have 2 or 3

[meh]

In Estonian media there is no news about this or even if they will organize it next year. The situation is still the same that they received an offer for next year or make the full commitment until 2026. As I understood there is no other option (to go year by year). They are waiting for a decision from the government, if they can support it or not.

To be fair, I personally can't see that the government would support this event. We have the highest inflation in the EU and teachers, rescue workers, police etc need salary raise otherwise they will run out of people; also the cost of gas and electricity is out of the roof. Really hard to justify if we are organizing the event but can't find money to deal with real things. I really hope that we can still do it but I would understand if we have more important topics.

I'm not that pessimistic. Even local far-right guys (as they were in government at that time) understood that supporting Rally Estonia bring other way all the money back. And this was even during corona time. It's not just giving money away, it's investment.

[J4MIE]

I'm not that pessimistic. Even local far-right guys (as they were in government at that time) understood that supporting Rally Estonia bring other way all the money back. And this was even during corona time. It's not just giving money away, it's investment.

Yes exactly. Just wish more places would see it like that :(

[J4MIE]

Any more calendar news?
When is the WMSC meeting to decide it?

[AnttiL]

Typically it has been in October

[Eli]

Any more calendar news?
When is the WMSC meeting to decide it?

20.10.22 is the next WMSC meeting.

[J4MIE]

Oh right, thought it was sooner than that.

[Eli]

Oh right, thought it was sooner than that.

They used to announce it at the end of September but since 2020 they started announcing it later. I'm guessing they're still waiting to see if Estonia gets their funding in order & checking exactly when to put Saudi Arabia, if the beginning of December isn't too late for the teams.

[WRCStan]

Maybe it's been said/widely known, but Sweden has a date: 9-12 Feb 2023 https://rallysweden.com/en/

[Eli]

Maybe it's been said/widely known, but Sweden has a date: 9-12 Feb 2023 https://rallysweden.com/en/

Mexico was also kind of confirmed in one of the interviews with Malcolm back in Greece.

[EstWRC]

they announced the F1 calendar yesterday, so maybe also WRC one soon?

[Eli]

they announced the F1 calendar yesterday, so maybe also WRC one soon?

You would think, but it looks like the WRC is the FIA’s (& promoter) last priority and we’ll probably just hear more rumours leading up to the WSMC meeting and then they’ll still publish on one of the events, TBD. Just speculating of course.

[Eli]

As expected (or not), Argentina won’t be returning to the WRC in 2023: https://rallyargentina-com.translate.goog/rallyargentina.com/sitio/comunicado-sobre-el-rally-argentina-y-el-wrc/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[KiwiWRCfan]

When Estonian and Polish fans discuss inflation rates the Argentinian fans say hold my beer https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/argentinas-inflation-rate-expected-hit-95-this-year-2022-09-09/

( late reference to posts from 3 weeks ago )

[WRCStan]

Monte route announced - three passes over Turini, one in the dark on Thursday and last being the power stage.

314.52km / 17 SS

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/2023-monte-carlo-route-unveiled/

Edit: Yeah this isn't news, we knew 2 months ago https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/col-de-turini-made-powerstage-for-monte-2023/

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/evans-concerned-wrc-is-losing-too-many-classic-events/

Evans perhaps eluding to the fact there's Saudi Arabia on next year's calendar, yes I know he doesn't say anything specific about it but he doesn't seem to satisfied about losing Argentina (& of course Wales after 2019).

[J4MIE]

Sorry Elfyn, I don’t want to double the cost of my competition licence to bring RallyGB back.

[AndyRAC]

Sorry Elfyn, I don’t want to double the cost of my competition licence to bring RallyGB back.

Quite right - if the event can't attract the right funding, then that is the fault of the people running the event who failed to make it an attractive business proposition.

[Eli]

According to this: https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/09/22/il-calendario-che-verra/

Chile will get back it's slot for next year with Argentina coming back in 2024 (alternating between the two); Canada is also in the mix for the 2024 season as an additional snow rally, I do recall they said they had a 5 year plan back in 2018, so if they do make it to 2024, not too bad considering everything that's gone on.

[wyler]

According to this: https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/09/22/il-calendario-che-verra/

Chile will get back it's slot for next year with Argentina coming back in 2024 (alternating between the two); Canada is also in the mix for the 2024 season as an additional snow rally, I do recall they said they had a 5 year plan back in 2018, so if they do make it to 2024, not too bad considering everything that's gone on.

also possible safari out due to political situation, new president against wrc.

[AnttiL]

What a silly season again for the calendar...

[Eli]

also possible safari out due to political situation, new president against wrc.

For now it's secured for 2023, beyond that is anyone's guess.

[Eli]

What a silly season again for the calendar...

Next thing you know, Corsica will be back lol.

[J4MIE]

also possible safari out due to political situation, new president against wrc.

This was debunked as fake news ;)

[Eli]

According to this: https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/09/22/il-calendario-che-verra/

Chile will get back it's slot for next year with Argentina coming back in 2024 (alternating between the two); Canada is also in the mix for the 2024 season as an additional snow rally, I do recall they said they had a 5 year plan back in 2018, so if they do make it to 2024, not too bad considering everything that's gone on.

The 5 year plan they had: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-promoter-association-of-canada-chases-fia-world-rally-championship/

[wyler]

This was debunked as fake news ;)

good, in the article there's a big space for that...

[kernel_gdi]

Spain out?

[Eli]

Spain out?

Not clear at this point in time, seems the calendar is being developed as we approach the WMSC meeting.

[Andre Oliveira]

Catalunya -> ERC

[Eli]

Catalunya -> ERC

In addition to the Gran Canary?

[Andre Oliveira]

Both. Canarias still have contract.

[lmmjvss]

Jeezz... F1 is probably having 24 races next year, MotoGP just added Kazahkistan to the calendar (???) and they are talking about having India and Saudi too for the next years. WRC will probably increase its calendar too and go to shitty places with lots of money and no tradition. Thats how things work nowadays.
....tho Safari, Acropolis, NZ and Japan are back so...

[er88]

So is there really only two tarmac events next season? Croatia and Japan? What a joke that would be.

I'd lose Estonia and Sardinia before losing any more tarmac events. In a 14 round championship you'd at least want 4 tarmac events surely.

[Eli]

So is there really only two tarmac events next season? Croatia and Japan? What a joke that would be.

I'd lose Estonia and Sardinia before losing any more tarmac events. In a 14 round championship you'd at least want 4 tarmac events surely.


To no one's surprise, Rally GB in Northern Ireland won't take place next year as they didn't get the funding: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/uk-set-to-miss-out-as-expanded-2023-wrc-calendar-progresses/10360922/

"Germany is among the new candidates in the mix to secure a spot on the calendar. The tarmac event made its WRC debut in 2002 and had been mainstay on the schedule, before hosting its last WRC round in 2019."

I was sure Germany out of the running for next year, glad to see it isn't.

This was published just 3 weeks ago so hopefully we do get an August slot for another tarmac event, and if they do at the end decide to have NZ in August, hopefully we'll have the 3rd (real) tarmac event in October like we have for the past 20 odd years? (excluding 2020 of course).

[WRCStan]

This was published just 3 weeks ago so hopefully we do get an August slot for another tarmac event, and if they do at the end decide to have NZ in August, hopefully we'll have the 3rd (real) tarmac event in October like we have for the past 20 odd years? (excluding 2020 of course).

Saudi! Can't rule it out given the talk. Maybe even move Japan into summer for spectators' benefit and finish in KSA. ?

Germany has been missing for a few years, what's different now that puts it in the running?

[Eli]

Saudi! Can't rule it out given the talk. Maybe even move Japan into summer for spectators' benefit and finish in KSA. ?

Germany has been missing for a few years, what's different now that puts it in the running?

"Germany is among the new candidates in the mix to secure a spot on the calendar. The tarmac event made its WRC debut in 2002 and had been mainstay on the schedule, before hosting its last WRC round in 2019."
That was from the Autosport article I attached, whether it will happen or not, I find that hard to believe, with so many events outside of Europe fighting for a spot, they'll have to drop at least one European event to achieve 14 rounds.

If I had to guess, they'll drop Catalunya & instead we'll have Japan in it's October slot with Saudi Arabia 2 months later in December. So it will go something like:
Monte Carlo, Sweden, Mexico, Croatia, Chile, Portugal, Sardegna, Kenya, Estonia, Finland, NZ, Greece, Japan, Saudi Arabia.

Hopefully I'm wrong and we'll get to keep one of our current tarmac (August/October) slots, whether it's Germany, Spain or another. Would be horrendous to have 3 (ish) tarmac events out of 14, they did that in the past (2009 comes to mind) and they quickly took a U-turn with it, hope this won't be the case here but this is the FIA & promoter we're talking about, making logical or clever decisions isn't exactly at the top of their priorities to put it lightly.

[flat_right]

There was a regular pre event rally podcast where they had one of the Rally Estonia's organizer there and looking at the body language when they asked about the dates of next year rally, then I feel quite positive that it will happen. Of course he couldn't say anything but there wasn't anything like we are not sure about the funding etc. Looked like he really wanted to say and confirm :D

[EstWRC]

There was a regular pre event rally podcast where they had one of the Rally Estonia's organizer there and looking at the body language when they asked about the dates of next year rally, then I feel quite positive that it will happen. Of course he couldn't say anything but there wasn't anything like we are not sure about the funding etc. Looked like he really wanted to say and confirm :D

He basically confirmed it TBH.

They were pressing the dates out of him but he didn’t say. That was quite funny part

[Eli]

Speaking of the devil(s): https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/rally-new-zealand-to-miss-out-on-2023-wrc-slot/10375708/

Not only we're getting Saudi Arabia for next year (if we're to believe the rumours) but now also NZ is out, probably didn't have enough cash to bribe the FIA.

Now left with 5 fly-away events, apparently South America is in the mix, I wonder which European event will come instead, hope it's a good one and not Latvia or something like that.

[er88]

Real shame losing NZ before it's had the chance to put on a proper itinerary. Hopefully it will be back every few yrs at least on a rotational basis.

I liked 2019 when they had Chile and Argentina back to back. Both rallies have fantastic stages and scenery, hugely passionate fanbases and Argentina had the history. Guess it's just Chile for next year though.

Return of Germany for the extra European round? Otherwise the FIA might have to backtrack and keep Spain or Ypres (which I'd much rather than some other new gravel rally or a return to somewhere like Cyprus)

[AndyRAC]

Losing NZ is just poor management.....And just proves what we already knew - all they care about is $$$$$$$.
The sport is going nowhere with these idiots in charge.

[Eli]

Real shame losing NZ before it's had the chance to put on a proper itinerary. Hopefully it will be back every few yrs at least on a rotational basis.

I liked 2019 when they had Chile and Argentina back to back. Both rallies have fantastic stages and scenery, hugely passionate fanbases and Argentina had the history. Guess it's just Chile for next year though.

Return of Germany for the extra European round? Otherwise the FIA might have to backtrack and keep Spain or Ypres (which I'd much rather than some other new gravel rally or a return to somewhere like Cyprus)

I seriously hope we'll get another tarmac event, but at this rate, we'll see a rally in Qatar, or Latvia seeing they're so keen being in the calendar.

[TypeR]

Losing NZ is just poor management.....And just proves what we already knew - all they care about is $$$$$$$.
The sport is going nowhere with these idiots in charge.

NZ has awesome roads, but very expensive to travel there + so short startlist(like Kenya)

[WRCStan]

USA or Oz in for NZ.

[Humber]

Canada for North America.

US has Rally2/ R5 and R3 cars etc. Invite the FIA cars north of the US border.

[AndyRAC]

NZ has awesome roads, but very expensive to travel there + so short startlist(like Kenya)

Yes, they are. However, it's the job of the Promoter to sell the sport to sponsors/ manufacturers to pay for it; NZ/ Safari are the perfect events to 'sell' the sport. Spectacular roads, scenery, enthusiastic crowds, etc

[J4MIE]

NZ has awesome roads, but very expensive to travel there + so short startlist(like Kenya)

They only care about Rally1 cars, so shirtventry list has zero thoughts for them.

[WRCStan]

it's the job of the Promoter to sell the sport to its own sponsors so Promoter can pay for it

For clarity - nobody else's sponsors.

[er88]

Yes, they are. However, it's the job of the Promoter to sell the sport to sponsors/ manufacturers to pay for it; NZ/ Safari are the perfect events to 'sell' the sport. Spectacular roads, scenery, enthusiastic crowds, etcAgreed. I also think the promoter and the dimwits in charge should respect the importance of historical events more. If blood/oil money countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar want to chuck insane money at the WRC to host an event, I guess we have to accept that (like every other sport is doing).
However, those countries have enough finance to pay for all the costs involved for the teams to get there. The promoter should then do what it can to help events like NZ, Argentina etc stay a part of the calendar, rather than making it financially impossible for them to make a yearly rally work. S£udi Ar£bia should be an addition to the championship, not at the expense of a better event or country that can't chuck endless oil money around . But no doubt the Saudi blood money will just line the pockets of the promoters instead etc.

Next year we will have no Argentina, New Zealand, Australia, Spain, no forest rally in the UK, and we still haven't added an American, Canadian or Chinese event yet. At least Greece and Safari are back, along with Japan.

[pantealex]

NZ has awesome roads, but very expensive to travel there + so short startlist(like Kenya)

Mexico has always been as bad. Under 30 entries.

[CWJ]

next draft

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/kehrtwende-in-sachen-rallye-deutschland-49069/

[Eli]

next draft

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/kehrtwende-in-sachen-rallye-deutschland-49069/

Would’ve been great if we had NZ instead of Saudi Arabia, but apart from that, given the circumstances, that’s nice to hear some good news.

[EstWRC]

next draft

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/kehrtwende-in-sachen-rallye-deutschland-49069/

I have followed This site for a long time and it is reliable and they don’t write rumors often.

This is great news then IMO

[bearclaw]

next draft

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/kehrtwende-in-sachen-rallye-deutschland-49069/

…in two weeks there is the famous 3 – städte rallye in the same region (GER – CZ – AUT) and maybe they will use some stages of the planned wrc event. I don’t know if this is already some kind of candidate event.

[J4MIE]

Please move Safari to April ;)

[J4MIE]

What about the Azores? :cool:

[Myrvold]

next draft

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/kehrtwende-in-sachen-rallye-deutschland-49069/

Saudi Arabia. Ffs. If it happens, I really hope the championship is decided before that.

[Tom K]

Please move Safari to April ;)

Won't happen as it is middle of the rainy season... Some of the stages and access roads become rivers then.

[Eli]

So to summarize, we're losing Catalunya, Belgium, New-Zealand to bring back Chile, Mexico, Central Europe and add Saudi Arabia....good luck to all involved, wonder what they'll do there, a prologue to Dakar 2024? Would easily swap it out to keep New-Zealand for another year (with longer itinerary).

[WRCStan]

So to summarize, we're losing Catalunya, Belgium, New-Zealand to bring back Chile, Mexico, Central Europe and add Saudi Arabia....good luck to all involved, wonder what they'll do there, a prologue to Dakar 2024? Would easily swap it out to keep New-Zealand for another year (with longer itinerary).

Assuming it goes ahead, and I'll also try to stop mentioning it once I've said this, if Saudi turns out be a minnie-mouse imitation monza-in-the-desert-in-the-middle-of-an-industrial-estate, I will cancel my subscription. There are some stunning regions with beautiful black ribbons ripe for everything that rallying should be about. What of this is actually usable for a rally, whether it's accessible and if there's enough of it in one area, I just don't know. But given they have a rally-raid championship and Dakar, only a handful of asphalt hillclimbs, drags, drifts and autotests; and whatever they create will be new and ideally a sustainable event to develop the national industry, asphalt has to be the goal for me.

[seb_sh]

Assuming it goes ahead, and I'll also try to stop mentioning it once I've said this, if Saudi turns out be a minnie-mouse imitation monza-in-the-desert-in-the-middle-of-an-industrial-estate, I will cancel my subscription. There are some stunning regions with beautiful black ribbons ripe for everything that rallying should be about. What of this is actually usable for a rally, whether it's accessible and if there's enough of it in one area, I just don't know. But given they have a rally-raid championship and Dakar, only a handful of asphalt hillclimbs, drags, drifts and autotests; and whatever they create will be new and ideally a sustainable event to develop the national industry, asphalt has to be the goal for me.

I bet it will be a "desert" style event.

[AndyRAC]

So to summarize, we're losing Catalunya, Belgium, New-Zealand to bring back Chile, Mexico, Central Europe and add Saudi Arabia....good luck to all involved, wonder what they'll do there, a prologue to Dakar 2024? Would easily swap it out to keep New-Zealand for another year (with longer itinerary).

So 3 events where the sport is really popular - yeah, lets drop them from the calendar. Typical WRC.......

[AnttiL]

So 3 events where the sport is really popular - yeah, lets drop them from the calendar. Typical WRC.......

I would say Chile and Czech are also countries where rally is popular. But it's not a popularity contest, money talks.

[AndyRAC]

Well yes, we all know that; whoever shows the money, gets the rounds.....But abandoning events like NZ is brainless.....

One hopes they haven't looked at F1 & MotoGP with 20+ races....and started to get ideas. DON'T even think about it.....

[Kenneth]

One hopes they haven't looked at F1 & MotoGP with 20+ races....and started to get ideas. DON'T even think about it.....

Don't worry, there would be need to demand by teams, drivers, sponsors, viewers, etc.. And well, this is WRC we are talking about.

[WRCStan]

Don't worry, there would be need to demand by teams, drivers, sponsors, viewers, etc.. And well, this is WRC we are talking about.

Miami was run by Liberty at a loss wasn't it? I keep wondering how long it'll be before Promoter tries something of their own vision.

24 rounds is absurd though when one guy is running away with the driver's championship and there's 1.5 constructors.

[Eli]

https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/un-calendrier-2023-inedit-pour-le-wrc.html

Seems it's all but confirmed, just like the rumours said, Saudi Arabia, Central Europe, Mexico & Chile in; Catalunya, NZ & Belgium out.

[NOT]

acropolis at the end of september coulnd be very muddy to the point that it might have issues... plus i am not going to be able to attend which is a far more important reason not to have it there.

[NOT]

https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/un-calendrier-2023-inedit-pour-le-wrc.html

Seems it's all but confirmed, just like the rumours said, Saudi Arabia, Central Europe, Mexico & Chile in; Catalunya, NZ & Belgium out.

so no winter break ? seems retarded to have a season starting so close to the end of the previous one.

[Eli]

so no winter break ? seems retarded to have a season starting so close to the end of the previous one.

Well they hardly even have a summer break, wouldn't be the first time they make these decisions...hopefully they'll sober up before 2024 but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Eli]

https://www.rallit.fi/mm-ralli-viedaan-kiisteltyyn-paikkaan-nain-rallin-mm-sarjan-promoottori-perustelee-ratkaisua/

I know this was posted before (via a different website), but here it goes a little into details while also adding that the 2024 calendar will (most likely) remain the same with the addition of the rally in Tennessee, USA.

[cali]

Rally Estonia seems to have secured 1,5M € funding for 2023

Kultuuriminister: Rally Estonia on taas MM-sarja etapp, riik annab 1,5 miljonit - Delfi Sport
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120080548/kultuuriminister-rally-estonia-on-taas-mm-sarja-etapp-riik-annab-1-5-miljonit

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Sal yet again]

The FIA and the new president seem to be getting themselves in a bit of a mess with their halo product so think the WRC wont be their main focus just now.

[Eli]

The FIA and the new president seem to be getting themselves in a bit of a mess with their halo product so think the WRC wont be their main focus just now.

With the way the WRC is being treated it seems (from the outside) the WRC has never been their main focus.

[AndyRAC]

With the way the WRC is being treated it seems (from the outside) the WRC has never been their main focus.

No it isn't. I recall Honda pulling out of F1 at the end of 2008, and Max Mosley stating he would try his best to salvage the situation.....When within a matter of days Suzuki, then Subaru pulled their WRC effort.....and nothing from the FiA. So 2009 started in Ireland with only Ford & Citroen.....

[Eli]

No it isn't. I recall Honda pulling out of F1 at the end of 2008, and Max Mosley stating he would try his best to salvage the situation.....When within a matter of days Suzuki, then Subaru pulled their WRC effort.....and nothing from the FiA. So 2009 started in Ireland with only Ford & Citroen.....

And I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen in 2024 with only Toyota & M-Sport keeping the light, hell I'd go as far as saying the championship could die altogether, and everyone would be quietly about their business.

[Eli]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398376850479509/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=3257719274545248

Apparently this is the WRC calendar for 2023 that will be presented officially next week in the WMSC meeting, know this was a long time coming but still annoyed by the fact we have Saudi Arabia as the season finale and not have NZ instead (in the calendar, not as season finale), or even Australia for that matter (again doesn't have to be season finale).

[djip]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398376850479509/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=3257719274545248

Apparently this is the WRC calendar for 2023 that will be presented officially next week in the WMSC meeting, know this was a long time coming but still annoyed by the fact we have Saudi Arabia as the season finale and not have NZ instead (in the calendar, not as season finale), or even Australia for that matter (again doesn't have to be season finale).
Money talks ... At the same time, a WRC in the middle east in general and in Saudi Arabia in particular is not a bad idea - definitely not as bad as the (asian) winter olympics to be held over there (!).
I buy the idea of WRC being truly "W", with events on each continents. So binning one EU event (Estonia - sorry estonain friends - as so similar to Finland ? Sardinia as lacking its own character/history ?) in favor of NZ would have been almost perfect ...
The risk here, just as it is in F1, is that running after the money may lead to a loss of all iconic events - hence the WRC heritage which cannot be dismissed from the marketing standpoint. At least we got Acropolis and Safari (albeit a shadow of it former self) back in ...

[Tauri_J]

I just dont get it why there cant be two fast gravel rallies in calendar. Right now we have a lot more slow to medium gravel rallies. Pre-Covid was even worse, only Finland and 5-6 slower gravel events. Two fast gravel rallies is absolutely fine. Rather ditch Sardegna for San Remo.

[er88]

San Remo can unfortunately never return due to crowds. However I agree, Sardinia really lacks a lot compared to other events we could have - Australia, NZ, GB, Argentina, Spain, an Italian tarmac event on the mainland, or a new event in the US/Canada/Brazil/China/India etc

[skarderud]

And I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen in 2024 with only Toyota & M-Sport keeping the light, hell I'd go as far as saying the championship could die altogether, and everyone would be quietly about their business.Then its time to skip rally1, and have rally2 as top class.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[djip]

Then its time to skip rally1, and have rally2 as top class.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I'm for it ! When privateers can fight against manus with same machinery (of course in the end the manus always win because of the best drivers, the best set up, etc ...) . But at least it's a fair field and if you make a mistake, you're down the pecking order, not just losing 2 spots...
Lately i was lookiong at the entrey list for SanRemo 2001 - the day where "everyone" could afford an Impreza, Escort, or Corolla. In addition to the 20 works cars, there were close to another 20 other WRC cars, dealers or privateers, some with pretty good drivers (Rovanpera, Jean-Joseph, Hagsstrom, Lundgaard, Carlsson, Longhi ...) - Somehow very similar with today's WRC2 !

[J4MIE]

I'm for it ! When privateers can fight against manus with same machinery (of course in the end the manus always win because of the best drivers, the best set up, etc ...) . But at least it's a fair field and if you make a mistake, you're down the pecking order, not just losing 2 spots...
Lately i was lookiong at the entrey list for SanRemo 2001 - the day where "everyone" could afford an Impreza, Escort, or Corolla. In addition to the 20 works cars, there were close to another 20 other WRC cars, dealers or privateers, some with pretty good drivers (Rovanpera, Jean-Joseph, Hagsstrom, Lundgaard, Carlsson, Longhi ...) - Somehow very similar with today's WRC2 !

But how many were allowed to beat the manufacturer teams?

[WRCStan]

Then its time to skip rally1, and have rally2 as top class.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

No manufacturers means no Promoter, which could be great, but with even only Toyota we'd see Promoter backing a second entry first. It would be shit but more likely than Rally2 as Toyota don't look like going anywhere.

[typhoon]

WRC gets a lot of money from Sardinia. The event is backed by the Sardinian tourism authority with almost 1 million euro, plus 200k euros from Alghero City council and about the same money by Alghero's tourism authority. If we consider the private sponsors, you can peek also Qatar's hotels (Smeralda Holding) and you can easily understand why Sardinia can't be actually touched. Don't forget that Italian ASN's President is Angelo Sticchi Damiani, a man that has a great lobby power within the FIA. All that said to underline how Sardinia is strongly backed both on a commercial and sporting pov.

Regarding the event itself, moving the Service Park to Alghero brought a lot of people and tourists to the service park, which was a complaint from the teams in the years back in Olbia. Another "past issue" was the ferry boat cost, which is now 100% free of charge for all the teams and the spectators got advantage of it with the discounts offered by the sponsor (Grimaldi Lines) both from Genoa, Livorno and Barcelona. And Alghero-Olbia are 2 airports with plenty of EasyJet-Ryanair low-cost flights.

Generally Sardinia is a powerhouse in getting worldwide events: other than WRC they got Extreme E, Motocross MXGP, F1H2O and the Aquabike world cup.

[typhoon]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398376850479509/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=3257719274545248

Apparently this is the WRC calendar for 2023 that will be presented officially next week in the WMSC meeting, know this was a long time coming but still annoyed by the fact we have Saudi Arabia as the season finale and not have NZ instead (in the calendar, not as season finale), or even Australia for that matter (again doesn't have to be season finale).

Having events like NZ or Australia doesn't give any return for investment for the Manufacturers and for the WRC itself.
They are limited markets for the Manufacturers, the companies doesn't invest in funding neither drivers programmes nor the championship itself, and it's quite expensive travel to justify it at the Board meetings.

The difference with rallies like NZ/AU and Japan for example, it's just that. Japan brings you a Manufacturer and two global partners. I'm quite sure that Saudi Arabia will pay the bill to bring the teams for free down there and if the Promoter is smart enough, can get a global partner for the championship as well (like Aramco or their new brand "Sabic").

For 2024 I would ditch easily Croatia to bring back Catalunya and then Estonia in favour of the US-based event between Atlanta and Nashville.

Have to mention that having 3 events in about the same timezone would boost a lot the tv-rights sales in North and South America. This would bring a lot of visibility for the manufacturers as well and boost their stay in the series (plus it might attract new ones).

[WRCStan]

I'm quite sure that Saudi Arabia will pay the bill to bring the teams for free down there and if the Promoter is smart enough, can get a global partner for the championship as well (like Aramco or their new brand "Sabic").

Near enough there: https://www.p1fuels.com/aramco-and-p1-racing-fuels-partner-with-the-fia-world-rally-championship-to-support-transition-to-sustainable-fuels/

[rallyfiend]

Having events like NZ or Australia doesn't give any return for investment for the Manufacturers and for the WRC itself.
They are limited markets for the Manufacturers, the companies doesn't invest in funding neither drivers programmes nor the championship itself, and it's quite expensive travel to justify it at the Board meetings.

The difference with rallies like NZ/AU and Japan for example, it's just that. Japan brings you a Manufacturer and two global partners. I'm quite sure that Saudi Arabia will pay the bill to bring the teams for free down there and if the Promoter is smart enough, can get a global partner for the championship as well (like Aramco or their new brand "Sabic").

For 2024 I would ditch easily Croatia to bring back Catalunya and then Estonia in favour of the US-based event between Atlanta and Nashville.

Have to mention that having 3 events in about the same timezone would boost a lot the tv-rights sales in North and South America. This would bring a lot of visibility for the manufacturers as well and boost their stay in the series (plus it might attract new ones).

Australia is one of the biggest markets for Toyota, Hyundai and Ford....

[NOT]

Australia is one of the biggest markets for Toyota, Hyundai and Ford....

australia is a 25 million country... there are villages in asia with larger markets than that 3rd world prison colony

[rallyfiend]

australia is a 25 million country... there are villages in asia with larger markets than that 3rd world prison colony

Not many of those villages buy over 1 million new cars a year.

Usually second per capita car sales markets in the world.

[AndyRAC]

If you're going purely on population size, and/ or car buying then you'd never go to Finland.......

Fortunately, that isn't how events are chosen.....Well not yet......

[NOT]

Not many of those villages buy over 1 million new cars a year.

Usually second per capita car sales markets in the world.

still not enough... a village with 3 people each having 3 cars will be the per capita car sales market in the world.

irrelevant country.

[NOT]

If you're going purely on population size, and/ or car buying then you'd never go to Finland.......

Fortunately, that isn't how events are chosen.....Well not yet......

yes you do because rally finland is an attractive event that gets publicity everywhere... winning rally finland or acropolis or other benchmark events is an advertisement by itself for a company.

plus that person from some irrelevant country used market size as an advantage, i did not

nobody cares about australia and nobody ever will.

[Steve Boyd]

nobody cares about australia and nobody ever will.
Until the marketing people from the manufacturers see that Australians buy 10 times as many cars as Greeks!

[NOT]

Until the marketing people from the manufacturers see that Australians buy 10 times as many cars as Greeks!

Acropolis rally has historical value which is far bigger value for a manufacturer to win it from a promotion of the brand.. like finalnd sweden monaco corsica ects... you are a 25million country... you can buy 10 cars each and still none will care... so trying to sell the car market point is retarded.

australia is an irrelevant country, nobody cares about australia or australians.

the only value australians have is entertainment value for your accent.... you are like zoo animals offering entertainment to the rest of the world, except i feel bad about zoo animals.

[J4MIE]

NOT I guess you had an Australian girlfriend in the past and it didn’t work out :rolleyes:

I’m off to visit Australia in a few weeks and it’s a fabulous place, I wish I could live over there, much better than the UK. Unfortunately I’m a week late for the local rally and then leave when the Coffs Coast rally is on, so miss out as usual.

Who gives a crap about Greece as well, you give it enough put downs so why would anyone else like it? :confused:

[NickRG]

NOT I guess you had an Australian girlfriend in the past and it didn’t work out :rolleyes:

I’m off to visit Australia in a few weeks and it’s a fabulous place, I wish I could live over there, much better than the UK. Unfortunately I’m a week late for the local rally and then leave when the Coffs Coast rally is on, so miss out as usual.

Who gives a crap about Greece as well, you give it enough put downs so why would anyone else like it? :confused:

Don’t pay attention to him, he’s being an a**hole, I’m Greek and I’d love Australia back in the calendar

[Sal yet again]

Finishing the championship in a dry (no alcohol) Muslim country it will be interesting how the WRC PR machine is going to polish that particular turd when it comes to talking up a "party to end all parties season ending finale" like they normally do. Its going to be a bit of a damp squib

[rallyfiend]

Finishing the championship in a dry (no alcohol) Muslim country it will be interesting how the WRC PR machine is going to polish that particular turd when it comes to talking up a "party to end all parties season ending finale" like they normally do. Its going to be a bit of a damp squib

All the top drivers seem to run to the airport / airfield and get on their jets as soon as possible on a Sunday anyway. Not sure it'll affect the party too much

[WRCStan]

party lol.

[flat_right]

Has this Sulayem boy done anything else to WRC apart from pushing his agenda for Saudi event? Haven't heard anything since 'WRC needs superstars, not just winners" and "Two and a half manufacturers in WRC is not enough". It's almost a year now since he became THE boss.

[philippebugalski]

Having events like NZ or Australia doesn't give any return for investment for the Manufacturers and for the WRC itself.
They are limited markets for the Manufacturers, the companies doesn't invest in funding neither drivers programmes nor the championship itself, and it's quite expensive travel to justify it at the Board meetings.

The difference with rallies like NZ/AU and Japan for example, it's just that. Japan brings you a Manufacturer and two global partners. I'm quite sure that Saudi Arabia will pay the bill to bring the teams for free down there and if the Promoter is smart enough, can get a global partner for the championship as well (like Aramco or their new brand "Sabic").

For 2024 I would ditch easily Croatia to bring back Catalunya and then Estonia in favour of the US-based event between Atlanta and Nashville.

Have to mention that having 3 events in about the same timezone would boost a lot the tv-rights sales in North and South America. This would bring a lot of visibility for the manufacturers as well and boost their stay in the series (plus it might attract new ones).


In the first part you are mentioning ''marketing/financial'' aspect but then you ''would easily ditch Croatia'' which was 2 years in a row most attended European event + probably most entertaining event in 2022 season.

2 years on calendar, 2 winners decided practicaly on the last corners of powerstage.
If you ask me Croatia is perfect in every aspect, geographical very accessible, it's completely different tarmac rally compared what we are used to in past years ( Monte, Spain, Belgium, Italy...)
Drivers are completely loving it, huge crowds on the stages, plus it is basically in the capital city which opens alot of other possibilities for fans.

Maybe I'm delusional because tarmac is my preference, but I've visited quite some tarmac rallies and this one is special.

[PLuto]

Has this Sulayem boy done anything else to WRC apart from pushing his agenda for Saudi event? Haven't heard anything since 'WRC needs superstars, not just winners" and "Two and a half manufacturers in WRC is not enough". It's almost a year now since he became THE boss.

Yes. He pushed for Central European Rally to be part of calendar...

[flat_right]

2023 Rally Estonia will be with reduced budget and they hope this suits for FIA. They got 1.5M instead of 2.5M from the government. And in the article they say that if they find solutions for the future, then the event will be here until 2026 (as a 3 year deal). Rally Estonia and promotor want to confirm this in the coming spring.

[Hartusvuori]

2023 Rally Estonia will be with reduced budget and they hope this suits for FIA. They got 1.5M instead of 2.5M from the government. And in the article they say that if they find solutions for the future, then the event will be here until 2026 (as a 3 year deal). Rally Estonia and promotor want to confirm this in the coming spring.

With 1,5 m€ support they should be just fine.

[cali]

With 1,5 m€ support they should be just fine.According to Delfi's article they need to make some serious cuts in their budget and plans.

But for me the most alarming is that they have been spending huge amounts on artists, on road constuction, IT development etc. I know also they have bought properties where the rally is being held.

Rally Estonia peab püksirihma pingutama. Kas FIA-le kärpeplaanist piisab? - Delfi Sport
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120084284/rally-estonia-peab-puksirihma-pingutama-kas-fia-le-karpeplaanist-piisab

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[AnttiL]

To me the road construction thing has been quite overwhelming. They have built jumps on existing roads, put new surface on worn forest roads and built whole new arenas from the ground up. But of course that should be an investment if they can reuse those roads in the future. I don't think Rally Finland has ever built or repaired a road purposely for a rally, except for the short bit at the end of Ruuhimäki.

[EstWRC]

To me the road construction thing has been quite overwhelming. They have built jumps on existing roads, put new surface on worn forest roads and built whole new arenas from the ground up. But of course that should be an investment if they can reuse those roads in the future. I don't think Rally Finland has ever built or repaired a road purposely for a rally, except for the short bit at the end of Ruuhimäki.

It’s just their way to get approval from the people to have stages and people on their land. So they promise to rebuild the roads again and what not.

[AnttiL]

It’s just their way to get approval from the people to have stages and people on their land. So they promise to rebuild the roads again and what not.

rebuilding after the rally is a different thing (and Rally Finland does this always), but doing new roads or repairing before the rally is a quite unusual thing. I know that Acropolis also did a fair bit of repairing in 2021.

[EstWRC]

rebuilding after the rally is a different thing (and Rally Finland does this always), but doing new roads or repairing before the rally is a quite unusual thing. I know that Acropolis also did a fair bit of repairing in 2021.

I didn’t mean only after the rally. works both ways before and after

It’s what Aava has been telling in the interviews

[Eli]

Apart from the 2023 calendar that will be published today/tomorrow, any chance the WMSC will discuss rules & regulations changes like killing off the kms of stages limit? Or perhaps making night stages on tarmac rallies mandatory? Or even just getting rid of the ridiculous numbering scheme taking place? Maybe shed more light about the 2025 regs?

[PLuto]

Apart from the 2023 calendar that will be published today/tomorrow, any chance the WMSC will discuss rules & regulations changes like killing off the kms of stages limit? Or perhaps making night stages on tarmac rallies mandatory? Or even just getting rid of the ridiculous numbering scheme taking place? Maybe shed more light about the 2025 regs?

I dont believe anything from what you mentioned will happen. I dont think they even think about it. Because it should make the championship better/more interesting and I am not sure this is what they really want...

[Eli]

I dont believe anything from what you mentioned will happen. I dont think they even think about it. Because it should make the championship better/more interesting and I am not sure this is what they really want...

I agree, but perhaps if more of us point it out then someone over there will at least have the decency to look at us and release a fan survey like they did back in 2014, but like you said, it seems they have the opposite interest of making the championship better/more interesting.

[J4MIE]

Apart from the 2023 calendar that will be published today/tomorrow, any chance the WMSC will discuss rules & regulations changes like killing off the kms of stages limit? Or perhaps making night stages on tarmac rallies mandatory? Or even just getting rid of the ridiculous numbering scheme taking place? Maybe shed more light about the 2025 regs?

Think meeting is tomorrow 20th.

Don’t think many of your points will be raised.

[ToKu]

Rally Poland was repairing roads before rally. Not whole route, but most of it.

[AnttiL]

Calendar postponed…


https://www.fia.com/news/fia-world-motor-sport-council-meets-historic-rac-london

[Eli]

Calendar postponed…


https://www.fia.com/news/fia-world-motor-sport-council-meets-historic-rac-london

What's the matter? hasn't anyone payed enough the FIA & Promoter yet?

On a serious note though, I honestly am wondering what's the point of keeping this championship alive if they seem to care about it as a rat's ass, pardon my french.

[jcevc]

What's the matter? hasn't anyone payed enough the FIA & Promoter yet?

On a serious note though, I honestly am wondering what's the point of keeping this championship alive if they seem to care about it as a rat's ass, pardon my french.

As I know the problem is few rallys are not confirmed (100%) yet and there could be too many changes later.

[Eli]

As I know the problem is few rallies are not confirmed (100%) yet and there could be too many changes later.

So at the end Chile didn't make the cut? Perhaps they decided they'd get to much backlash on Saudi Arabia so they delay the inclusion of it by another year?

[SubaruNorway]

Not WRC but ERC seems to be going to Värmland next summer
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/rally-em-till-varmland-beslut-vantas-inom-kort?fbclid=IwAR1T3ECsV_-fRvWF8Q42IA0mhK6qIc8kaDv4vy5qichSVtm7rW8BzXn2h0w

[manthey]

Lately i was lookiong at the entrey list for SanRemo 2001 - the day where "everyone" could afford an Impreza, Escort, or Corolla. In addition to the 20 works cars, there were close to another 20 other WRC cars, dealers or privateers, some with pretty good drivers (Rovanpera, Jean-Joseph, Hagsstrom, Lundgaard, Carlsson, Longhi ...) - Somehow very similar with today's WRC2 !

I just read again the entrylist of that year, oh wow what a level of drivers!!!

[Managarium]

Calendar could be presented later then expected?

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2022/10/2023-wrc-calendar-to-be-presented-later-than-expected/

[PLuto]

Calendar could be presented later then expected?

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2022/10/2023-wrc-calendar-to-be-presented-later-than-expected/

For sure as "expected" was yesterday :)

[jcevc]

So at the end Chile didn't make the cut? Perhaps they decided they'd get to much backlash on Saudi Arabia so they delay the inclusion of it by another year?

Chile and SA are in, also Central european rally. Some dates are not fixed and contracts not signed yet.
Date for Czech/Austria/Germany rally is at the end of october, which could mean very very hard rally (like ERC Hungary) with a lot of mud, rain, moisture/fog, leaves etc.

[hari]

Chile and SA are in, also Central european rally. Some dates are not fixed and contracts not signed yet.
Date for Czech/Austria/Germany rally is at the end of october, which could mean very very hard rally (like ERC Hungary) with a lot of mud, rain, moisture/fog, leaves etc.

The candidate event for the Central european rally was held as "ADAC 3 Städte Rallye" with stages in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic last weekend. It was a very spectacular event with those autumn conditions.

Gallery: https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_adac_3_staedte_rallye_2022.html

[seb_sh]

So the proposed calendar is not that bad, I'm only sad about losing Spain to be honest. And there has usually been a "mercenary" event in the calendar, in the end for the promoter it's a business and they can look to make money.

Speaking in general for me there are 13 "classic" WRC events in the modern era: Monte Carlo, Sweden, Kenya, Portugal, Spain, Argentina, Greece, Finland, New Zealand, Italy-Sanremo, Corsica, Australia, Great Britain. We still have most of those even if some are intermittent.
Between these classics there was often an extra event like Cote D'Ivoire, Indonesia, China, Cyprus usually something random and exotic.

Then they started to introduce new events and lose some classics, we got Germany, Turkey, Mexico, Japan (Hokkaido), Norway, Italy went to Sardegna, Ireland, Jordan, Poland, Bulgaria, France went to Alsace, Chile, Estonia, Belgium in Ypres, Croatia, Estonia and dare I say... Monza

So yeah some events I can pass over some are really must haves, a couple of the classics are maybe not viable anymore, a couple of the new ones are really good. For example Germany and Mexico have kind of become classics for me. So if most events are good ones and there's one cash-grab I can live with that.

[Eli]

Seems it's official & Estonia received it's €1.5 Million and the event will go ahead next year, also apparently Spain isn't leaving without a fight: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/rallye-estland-erhaelt-wieder-millionen-vom-staat-49192/

[EstWRC]

If Tänak retires, it will be a huge blow for rally Estonia

[flat_right]

If Tänak retires, it will be a huge blow for rally Estonia

I hope even if he retires, he will do this as a 3rd/4th car in some team.

[typhoon]

I'm not sure how the WRC Promoter will be helping the teams out to get all those flyaway races outside Europe. For sure, they need to get back to the negotiations that apparently have been interrupted with DHL (that we saw appearing for some weeks on the WRC website, before being removed eventually).

Having a "Logistic Partner" to give to the team in form of bulk discounts (or better, free) on the shipping-transport of the material to rallies like Japan or Chile it's fundamental to let the teams in the championship and keep the costs as they are, without further increasing.

They basically should do what Eurosport did with the WTCR, getting DHL and giving to the teams the full amount of the sponsorship, in order to let them digest the events in Asia and have a very cheap shipping eventually.

[Eli]

Apparently the FIA has yet to receive a calendar from the WRC promoter, and the number of long haul events remain in doubt, if I had to guess I'd say Chile won't make the cut, unless the teams will go head on and disagree about going to Saudi Arabia next year, here's the article (from 3 days ago): https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/robert-reid-nous-navons-pas-eu-de-calendrier.html

[fiscorpun]

Are Long haul events becoming a real problem for european teams as a whole? Cuz WORLD RALLYCROSS, WORLD TOURING CARS, WORLD SUPERMOTO, WORLD SPEEDWAYGP etc have been racing only in Europe for the last 3 years... I know covid make it worst, OF COURSE, but no one seemed to improve from 2021 to 2022... and 2023, with some "rumour calendars" not having international races again.

[typhoon]

^^

That's why the WRC Promoter desperately needs a logistic partner like DHL to help the teams having a heavy logistic help for the long haul races. This way, the few Manufacturers still involved would step away soon...

[106 sport]

Very strong rumors in Spain talking about Gran Canaria (Rally Islas Canarias) could be in the WRC in the years 2.024 and 2.025 replacing Rally Catalunya.


The Rally Islas Canarias (Gran Canaria) steps on the accelerator to enter the World Championship in 2025.
It could begin to take turns with the Rally of Catalonia

This weekend, in parallel to the Rally of Catalonia, another competition has been waged behind the scenes to ensure the permanence of our country in the World Rally calendar, increasingly more quoted. The RACC has tightened the screws on the promoter so that its test -definitely discarded from next year's list- returns to the elite of the specialty in 2024. At the same time, the organizers of the Rally Islas Canarias, the second most international Spanish event (it scores for the European Championship since 2016), have stepped on the accelerator with the desire to be part of the World Championship in 2025.


The organizers of the island event assured this summer its continuity in the continental championship for the next two years. Last weekend, they were already talking in Salou with the RFEDA and the promoter -currently, the same that manages the European Championship- so that the 50th edition of the mythical 'Corte Inglés' (its former name) receives the World Championship seal for which the insular fans, one of the most numerous and knowledgeable of the national territory, are clamoring.

The intention of the FIA to avoid the mess of this year -the calendar of the next course is still not approved, apparently by an erroneous procedure of the promoter- is to leave tied at the beginning of 2023 the calendar of the following campaign, in which the Rally of Catalonia will have to retake its place.

According to MARCA, if the archipelago supports the Rally Islas Canarias enough to be promoted to the World Championship in 2025, from then on it could begin to take turns with the Catalonia, and together ensure the annual continuity of the championship in Spain, now that the rotational system of the past will be reinstated.




https://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2022/10/26/635917e6268e3ef6588b4589.html
https://automovilismocanario.com/ivan-corral-presidente-de-la-fga-el-rally-islas-canarias-estara-en-el-mundial-en-la-temporada-2024-y-2025/
https://www.motor.es/noticias/rally-islas-canarias-vs-rally-racc-posible-alternancia-wrc-202290787.html

[GigiGalliNo1]

Can someone just leak the calendar dates/weeks already? I'd like to plan my 2023!

[Fiesta]

Can someone just leak the calendar dates/weeks already? I'd like to plan my 2023!

I'm not sure how reliable community this is, but they posted the calendar with dates : https://www.facebook.com/wrctvitaly/posts/pfbid02oKBAoF6n51LB8QVSC5FXgNbjq2VTEybusEM3aanUxNN HKCwJjHRb7jiU8Tk6uLuql

[J4MIE]

I'm not sure how reliable community this is, but they posted the calendar with dates : https://www.facebook.com/wrctvitaly/posts/pfbid02oKBAoF6n51LB8QVSC5FXgNbjq2VTEybusEM3aanUxNN HKCwJjHRb7jiU8Tk6uLuql

That aligns with what I’ve heard.

[bearclaw]

Some austrian newspaper reported yesterday regarding of the new Rally Central Europe that there are maybe four special stages planned for Sunday in Austria.

They mentioned the region around Freistadt (Jänner Rallye region, former erc rally, now austrian championship). For me that sounds a bit strange because this year's 3 Städte Rally (some kind of candidate event) and the included austrian stages where further northwest, closer to the german border and the planned rally HQ Passau.

Close and a bit north of the Freistadt region there is the area of the Rally Český Krumlov. Maybe the intention of the german organization is to use some rally proofed regions. Both rallys in Czech Republic and Austria are classics in their national championship.

Maybe our czech and german forum members have more information.

Otherwise it sounds logical. The stages and the people around the Freistadt area are used to rallying and lot of spectators back in the erc days. The same thing is about the Český Krumlov area (South Bohemian Region), I guess. I don't know if the stages are maybe to fast, but the Malonty stage is absolutely beautiful and spectacular.

The oldtown of Freistadt is quite beautiful for a possible rally finish. In Freistadt town there will be opening a new 4-star hotel in autumn 2023 close to a fairground like in Jyväskylä. Linz and the international Airport is not to far away. The infrastructure on both sides of the border in Austria and the Czech Republic is great for a possible wrc event.

Start of the Rally in Prague with stages on the Czech side on Friday. Saturday in Germany and a Sunday in Austria. Rally HQ Passau, Germany - sounds ok for me.

[WRC1]

Some austrian newspaper reported yesterday regarding of the new Rally Central Europe that there are maybe four special stages planned for Sunday in Austria.

They mentioned the region around Freistadt (Jänner Rallye region, former erc rally, now austrian championship). For me that sounds a bit strange because this year's 3 Städte Rally (some kind of candidate event) and the included austrian stages where further northwest, closer to the german border and the planned rally HQ Passau.

Close and a bit north of the Freistadt region there is the area of the Rally Český Krumlov. Maybe the intention of the german organization is to use some rally proofed regions. Both rallys in Czech Republic and Austria are classics in their national championship.

Maybe our czech and german forum members have more information.

Otherwise it sounds logical. The stages and the people around the Freistadt area are used to rallying and lot of spectators back in the erc days. The same thing is about the Český Krumlov area (South Bohemian Region), I guess. I don't know if the stages are maybe to fast, but the Malonty stage is absolutely beautiful and spectacular.

The oldtown of Freistadt is quite beautiful for a possible rally finish. In Freistadt town there will be opening a new 4-star hotel in autumn 2023 close to a fairground like in Jyväskylä. Linz and the international Airport is not to far away. The infrastructure on both sides of the border in Austria and the Czech Republic is great for a possible wrc event.

Start of the Rally in Prague with stages on the Czech side on Friday. Saturday in Germany and a Sunday in Austria. Rally HQ Passau, Germany - sounds ok for me.

there wont be stages arround Freistadt....nobody knows from where the newspaper got this info. the austrian stages will be held between Schärding and Peilstein.

[J4MIE]

I would like to see Chile back.

[AnttiL]

I would like to see Chile back.

Me too!

[bearclaw]

there wont be stages arround Freistadt....nobody knows from where the newspaper got this info. the austrian stages will be held between Schärding and Peilstein.

...thanks for clearing up this newspaper info.

[lmmjvss]

There was something regarding the FIA OFF ROAD comission this week so maybe that calendar is real. I saw some other championships calendar drafts on other forum/groups so it may be realistic, eh

[GigiGalliNo1]

Chile is returning and the season concludes in Saudi... but thing is Monza has put in an application/push to end the year... in December.

[Tauri_J]

Please god no, Monza is garbage

[hutchie]

Return to Chile would be great especially with no GB the two had similar style roads.

I don't despise Monza but in a short calendar I don't see any justification for a second Italian round with one being predominantly race circuit based. The roads outside the circuit seemed decent and the circuit provided good spectator stages. But the balance would need to be in favour of the country roads and I can't see how you could justify the cost of hiring the circuit in that situation? Unless circuit hire costs are low because of it being state owned AFAIK.

[Fiesta]

I do not really like Monza either, but if the alternative is Saudi Arabia, then I will accept Monza any given day. Maybe the December is also an issue for the organizers as there aren't really many that can do that and the WRC has already experience of Monza in December (or late November).

[rp]

If Saudi Arabia or Monza, of course Italy would be better. The WRC season is already from January to November and the last event should be in November. There is no break between the seasons already now.

[J4MIE]

I really enjoyed Monza, a decent event plus plenty mountain roads to expand to use.

[Franky]

I really enjoyed Monza, a decent event plus plenty mountain roads to expand to use.

The main issue most have with Monza is the ratio of circuit vs mountain roads.

[Eli]

https://twitter.com/RallyMexico/status/1592913264480227364?s=20&t=khdqIdpxq9naxjtjZWO_Rw

México confirming the rally will run between the 16th-19th of March.

[typhoon]

WRC Promoter asked the Italian ASN if they could jump in in the 2023 WRC Calendar in case any other event must be dropped off or it might be unsafe to put it in the calendar.

Source: http://www.areacorse.com/monza-allerta-wrc-2023/

[PLuto]

WRC Promoter asked the Italian ASN if they could jump in in the 2023 WRC Calendar in case any other event must be dropped off or it might be unsafe to put it in the calendar.

Source: http://www.areacorse.com/monza-allerta-wrc-2023/

Strange they are asking italian ASN for Monza when Spain is unhappy with not being in calendar and trying to fight to be back as soon as possible...