2022 WRC News & Rumours

[Sulland]

New top class is exiting, will they habe reliability issues or work perfectly out of the box?
As of now they look slower than 2021 cars, will they catch up in 2022?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwUlRvWYAUQXG-?format=jpg&name=medium

[Danny0405]

Finally... mid-october.
I like the principle of maintaining 4 pure tarmac rallies including the two last one.
Still no American rallye...

Any rumors on the last tarmac rallye: theoretically not Ypres; the date looks like Germany but Barum would be cool.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwZb9HXsAgOxYc?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwZb9IXoAYYY0Q?format=jpg&name=large

[AnttiL]

Finally... mid-october.
I like the principle of maintaining 4 pure tarmac rallies including the two last one.
Still no American rallye...

Any rumors on the last tarmac rallye: theoretically not Ypres; the date looks like Germany but Barum would be cool.

On previous rumors it has been Northern Ireland

[seb_sh]

calendar looks good, good mix, i'd like maybe a tarmac round somewhere between all those 5 on gravel but ok can't have everything

[Mk2 RS2000]

There are some very happy people just waking up this morning in New Zealand

[EstWRC]

Great calendar. Especially that NZ is back!!!

[MarkT]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/donaldsons-threat-to-collapse-stormont-spooks-rally-bosses-40953772.html

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Got Mail]

On previous rumors it has been Northern Ireland

It is Northern Ireland.

Confirmed here:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/donaldsons-threat-to-collapse-stormont-spooks-rally-bosses-40953772.html

[Danny0405]

Not convinced by the new formula of Junior WRC will work and it might be even worse than today: the cost is higher than the current version with Rally4 (at least 20% more from what I understand) even if it is logical as it is a better car.

And as the Fiesta Rally2 is maybe the Worst Rally2 car, it does not give that much confidence as a prize I think (at least, the ownership prize had given a new interest from drivers during few seasons before the new Fiesta Rally2 car has proven to be inconsistent).
Last point: as there is not that much Rally3 car in the market at the moment, it will be difficult for a driver to find one during the season for other rallies so he will have to switch between various categories.

All in all, I hope I’m wrong but I think it will be a massive failure. At least, the only positive thing is that it will give really interesting entry lists in ERC with a lot of competition in Rally4 for young drivers.

I think they should stop making various Junior Championships everywhere and change to create a really competitive ERC Junior Rally4 championship with the best youngsters and a really good prize sponsored by the FIA to help them to develop (example: a two-year WRC Rally2 program + one Rally1 outing or a two-year WRC2+ERC program).

[Eli]

Finally... mid-october.
I like the principle of maintaining 4 pure tarmac rallies including the two last one.
Still no American rallye...

Any rumors on the last tarmac rallye: theoretically not Ypres; the date looks like Germany but Barum would be cool.

If everything goes ok, Northern Ireland should get that slot.

[Eli]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBwUlRvWYAUQXG-?format=jpg&name=medium

They talk about going green and being sustainable yet they make the crews go the long way round twice instead of staying in the southern hemisphere. At the very least they could put NZ straight after Finland, and then you have a longer gap between the two trips, but seeing they're only separated by Spain, they could easily swap between the two (Spain & NZ) and go on straight from NZ to Japan, at least for the drivers and teams it would be less work (and more eco-friendly).

[AnttiL]

They talk about going green and being sustainable yet they make the crews go the long way round twice instead of staying in the southern hemisphere. At the very least they could put NZ straight after Finland, and then you have a longer gap between the two trips, but seeing they're only separated by Spain, they could easily swap between the two (Spain & NZ) and go on straight from NZ to Japan, at least for the drivers and teams it would be less work (and more eco-friendly).

The service equipment will take weeks to ship from NZ to Japan. And even if there were no rallies in between, the drivers would still fly home (and rally cars to rebuild) in between. The European events use their own service equipment, so it doesn’t travel back and forth. So it doesn’t make a difference really to have Spain in between. It has been the same often with Mexico-France-Argentina sequence.

Only way to make savings to traveling is to have two long-distance events situated close to each other geographically, and link the cars, like Argentina and Chile 2019. Likely some drivers traveled home in between, some didn’t.

[Eli]

The service equipment will take weeks to ship from NZ to Japan. And even if there were no rallies in between, the drivers would still fly home (and rally cars to rebuild) in between. The European events use their own service equipment, so it doesn’t travel back and forth. So it doesn’t make a difference really to have Spain in between. It has been the same often with Mexico-France-Argentina sequence.

Only way to make savings to traveling is to have two long-distance events situated close to each other geographically, and link the cars, like Argentina and Chile 2019. Likely some drivers traveled home in between, some didn’t.

Ok so at least don't make the crews go back and forth on such a short time period, they could easliy have put NZ after NI or before NI and after Finland and then at least they'd (driver & crews) have a longer period between both long haul events.

[Sulland]

How many cars will each team field next year?
Can we see as many as 4-6 cars in some team? 3 works drivers and 1-3 pay drivers maybe.

[pantealex]

It is Northern Ireland.

Confirmed here:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/donaldsons-threat-to-collapse-stormont-spooks-rally-bosses-40953772.html

so FIA says TBA and local newspaper says NI,

all this same day

you really believe it´s confirmed ?

Why did FIA say TBA if it´s 100% sure NI ?

#justasking

[pantealex]

How many cars will each team field next year?
Can we see as many as 4-6 cars in some team? 3 works drivers and 1-3 pay drivers maybe.

Nearly nobody was renting WRC17-21 cars and next years car isn´t any cheaper to rent...
+ I don´t think teams have time to make many extra cars. They need 2x3 cars because longhaul events + spare cars if and when Rally1 gets destroyed

[er88]

so FIA says TBA and local newspaper says NI,

all this same day

you really believe it´s confirmed ?

Why did FIA say TBA if it´s 100% sure NI ?

#justaskingThink the WRC want to avoid a public affair where NI once again fail to get an event together. So better to say TBA, rather than getting everyone's hopes up.
The promoter is desperate for a round in the UK but this NI event has failed to come to anything for years....., and it wouldn't surpise me if it doesn't again. Unless the Scottish government back an event, I can't see any UK round in the championship for the medium to longer term (NI will be a one off, if it happens at all).

[Danny0405]

My personal bet on Ogier program next year: Monte-Carlo / Safari / Spain
Monte-Carlo, no need to argue.
He seems to have liked Safari and quite far from WEC events.
I don’t see him doing a WRC close to LeMans, especially Sardinia.
For the last one, I would say Spain (or maybe Japan for PR but as it is the same day than a WEC event + quite uncertain with two cancellations in a row, would not see it as a first pick) as it is far from WRC events and not a rally he dislikes.

Not necessarily the best choice for a part-time driver (no big benefit from road position except the Safari but not that simple) but Ogier is not necessarily in this logic.

[AndyRAC]

Think the WRC want to avoid a public affair where NI once again fail to get an event together. So better to say TBA, rather than getting everyone's hopes up.
The promoter is desperate for a round in the UK but this NI event has failed to come to anything for years....., and it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't again. Unless the Scottish government back an event, I can't see any UK round in the championship for the medium to longer term (NI will be a one off, if it happens at all).

Only F1 & MotoGP of the major motorsport series have a round in the UK; other series have opted not to come here for whatever reason (financial/Brexit, etc) Raising the money for the event is surely a challenge - as the sport has next to no mainstream exposure. Why would you back an event that is invisible? The days of the old RAC are long gone; a lot of the issues are self inflicted, but people like to blame everybody else.

[EstWRC]

- Rally Estonia will be without the group system next year, you can go where you want and when you want, just like old days
- Tickets on sale before christmas
- Power Stage will be at Leigo

[AnttiL]

Leigo is near the Neeruti stage. Great to have a proper power stage!

[Andre Oliveira]

Ford Fiesta Rally2 test to Huttunen?

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12153361

[Andre Oliveira]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-facing-very-difficult-search-for-wrc2-team-leader/?fbclid=IwAR0Y0Cw3CXUNtYA2Hvoqj62AmZc6joZyqavr_3pj n2gNs2hf8GQPR1CPsIY

[cali]

- Rally Estonia will be without the group system next year, you can go where you want and when you want, just like old days
- Tickets on sale before christmas
- Power Stage will be at LeigoI guess they found out that it was not affordable to continue like this. RE 2022 here I come!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[spiderem]

My personal bet on Ogier program next year: Monte-Carlo / Safari / Spain
Monte-Carlo, no need to argue.
He seems to have liked Safari and quite far from WEC events.
I don’t see him doing a WRC close to LeMans, especially Sardinia.
For the last one, I would say Spain (or maybe Japan for PR but as it is the same day than a WEC event + quite uncertain with two cancellations in a row, would not see it as a first pick) as it is far from WRC events and not a rally he dislikes.

Not necessarily the best choice for a part-time driver (no big benefit from road position except the Safari but not that simple) but Ogier is not necessarily in this logic.

He doesn't know how to drive with good road position after complaining for so long about sweeping ;)

[RS]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-facing-very-difficult-search-for-wrc2-team-leader/?fbclid=IwAR0Y0Cw3CXUNtYA2Hvoqj62AmZc6joZyqavr_3pj n2gNs2hf8GQPR1CPsIY

I think with only 7 paid seats available in WRC1 it’s entirely necessary to allow former top-tier drivers into WRC2, and besides they provide a good benchmark for young drivers trying to work their way up through the ranks.

Regarding the Fiesta Rally2, it seems some people dispute how good it is, although it’s pretty quick on asphalt at least. They could do worse than to take Ostberg who although it’s sometimes hard to take his whining seriously does seem to have done a good job developing and driving the C3 Rally2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport are in a tough position with being a producer of all classes of rally cars from Rally 5 to WRC and the new Rally 1.

Having good driver's to develop and prove all of them for sales, as well as the WRC team competing at the top level is not easy, or cheap.

[Mirek]

M-Sport are in a tough position with being a producer of all classes of rally cars from Rally 5 to WRC and the new Rally 1.

Having good driver's to develop and prove all of them for sales, as well as the WRC team competing at the top level is not easy, or cheap.

It's not tough position. It's M-Sport business strategy to fill every new class before their competitors start selling own products.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's not tough position. It's M-Sport business strategy to fill every new class before their competitors start selling own products.

It is if they want to pay for top driver's to promote them vs the competition.

This especially like for their Rally2 car that we were discussing. They are not 'filling that class' before anyone, the others are coming with new Rally2's all the time.

[mknight]

Afaik they were first R5 available.

Lately when others use a lot of money for developing Rally2s, MSport doesn't.
Instead they seemed to focus on being first in other classes like R3 ( and R5 previously).

Their current "troubles" getting driver for Rally2 development seems to be due to:
- drivers with lots of own funds use the best cars they can buy (see Gryazin, Lappi, Suninen, or Skoda drivers) or where they extra starts in competetive WRC ( Veiby last year, Solberg now, Suninen from Spain)
- former WRC drivers like Østberg or Mikkelsen go where they get paid

MSport doesn't seem to pay well (at all?) and the car seems to be behind on gravel (though competetive on tarmac and maybe even the best on wet tarmac).

[Mirek]

This especially like for their Rally2 car that we were discussing. They are not 'filling that class' before anyone, the others are coming with new Rally2's all the time.

They did that with the first gen Fiesta R5 which was even intentionally downgraded compared to the limits given by the rules just to speed-up the development and to take the empty market 1-2 years ahead of the competitors. Recently they rushed the Rally3 while undoubtebly they had to reshuffle some of the available people and money from the Rally2. Was something in the Rally3 sacrified for the sake of speedy introduction and taking of an empty market? I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Eli]

https://mailchi.mp/fia/jja3q9igfw-6472580-p8on12pmcg-6491707
Some more information about next year's regulations, some stuff that I didn't catch (or just weren't there) last week when the calendar for 2022 was introduced.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFpz5WEAozHDT?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFpz4WEAESOs0?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFpz4XoAw7s4-?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFpz6XIAIQplm?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFtpCXIA0TEaO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFto5XsAYHon0?format=jpg&name=medium

[WRCStan]

"As a result, the Junior WRC3 Championship will form the WRC3 Junior section of the FIA..."

I see confusion where juniors are not included in the junior championship. This will happen if other manufacturers produce a Rally3 and it has a younger driver within 3 years, or if junior drivers just want to do one round and not the full JWRC package.

Could JWRC be in the style of best 5 from any 7, with M-Sport committing to an arrive and drive campus at every event? Unlikely. If it's a set 5 event calendar I again see confusion where Juniors driving a Fiesta on many rounds of their choice will not be included in the Junior classification.

OK this is not a massive issue, but the FIA and M-Sport should do better secret-handshake deals than this.

[WRCStan]

Wait what?

"A prize drive opportunity in a Fiesta Rally2 on four European rounds of the WRC3 in 2023 awaits the 2022 Junior WRC championship."

[Mirek]

I'd like to know what is the AISC meant to be used for. I have spent quite a long time in a company developing such automotive systems, so it would be interesting for me to know for what purpose they want to use it.

[jonkka]

I'd like to know what is the AISC meant to be used for. I have spent quite a long time in a company developing such automotive systems, so it would be interesting for me to know for what purpose they want to use it.

FIA's own press release gives some more info:

Starting from 2022 the FIA Artificial Intelligence Safety Camera (AISC) will become mandatory in all Rally1 cars. This forward-facing in-car camera will continually scan the special stage and its direct surroundings, identifying the shapes and analysing the position of spectators in the environment, hence helping to supplement the work undertaken by the FIA Safety Delegate to address unsafe situations. The crew-facing High-Speed Camera (HSC) currently in use in all Priority 1 cars will no longer be mandatory but only recommended.

Source: https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-23

[Mirek]

FIA's own press release gives some more info:

Starting from 2022 the FIA Artificial Intelligence Safety Camera (AISC) will become mandatory in all Rally1 cars. This forward-facing in-car camera will continually scan the special stage and its direct surroundings, identifying the shapes and analysing the position of spectators in the environment, hence helping to supplement the work undertaken by the FIA Safety Delegate to address unsafe situations. The crew-facing High-Speed Camera (HSC) currently in use in all Priority 1 cars will no longer be mandatory but only recommended.

Source: https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-23

Kiitos.

The camera is for sure able to recognize people and there are algorhytms which can determine if the people (or other objects) may collide with the vehicle carrying the camera but aside of a very clear situation such as a person on the road it will require to manually pre-define no-go zones per the safety plan in every single stage for the software so that it can check whether detected people are inside or outside of such zone.

[Danny0405]

M-Sport are in a tough position with being a producer of all classes of rally cars from Rally 5 to WRC and the new Rally 1.

Having good driver's to develop and prove all of them for sales, as well as the WRC team competing at the top level is not easy, or cheap.

Personnally, I think M-Sport is the only responsible for not finding a main WRC-2 driver.
They decide to take Loeb for some drives next year whereas the marketing effect is now reduced and he has not proven to be more than a B-class driver in Hyundai now (I’m talking about the 46-year old Loeb, not the young one) even if this maverick role in M-Sport may be better for him than the manufacturer job in Hyundai.
And Loeb probably don’t pay to drive.
I’m pretty sure than by offering them a 4-round Rally1 program, they would have succeeding in hiring Ostberg or Mikkelsen for a full 7-round WRC-2 program in addition for almost nothing. And they would be at the same level than the old Loeb.

And it will be very difficult for them to hire another good driver of the Rally2 class which is already in Skoda or Citroen as the Fiesta has not proven to be more competitive (for example, don’t see why Bulacia would sign).
The only strategy for them would be to hire a young high-potential driver (Cais) and maybe another one in a bad situation (Huttunen which is not much trusted in Hyundai).

[ouvreur]

I’m pretty sure than by offering them a 4-round Rally1 program, they would have succeeding in hiring Ostberg or Mikkelsen for a full 7-round WRC-2 program in addition for almost nothing. And they would be at the same level than the old Loeb.

"The same level"? M-Sport hiring Loeb isn't about marketing, or the results he might be able to deliver - as great a story as it might be to see him 'finally' work with the team, or win a rally in yet another generation of cars. No, it's about his ability and experience in developing rally cars. There has never been a driver involved in developing as many rally- and championship-winning cars as Sebastien Loeb. Ever.

That's the angle you need to be looking at it from. Mikkelsen or Ostberg might just about be able to deliver similar results on rallies as late-career Loeb, but there's a reason why it's the 47 year old Frenchman in the Puma, and they're not...

(Edited for accuracy - I knew he was 47, honest)

[rp]

46 year old Frenchman

Loeb is already 47-year :)

[AnttiL]

Remember the 2018 Loeb? Not that much younger Loeb.

[ouvreur]

Remember the 2018 Loeb? Not that much younger Loeb.
He seemed to do ok! And that was in the C3...

Funny isn't it, how other drivers who have had patchy results with the i20 Coupe WRC are defended as "not getting on with the car", but in Loeb's case it's because he's "not more than a B class driver"... he's proven time and time again that form is temporary, but class is permanent.

[denkimi]

"The same level"? M-Sport hiring Loeb isn't about marketing, or the results he might be able to deliver - as great a story as it might be to see him 'finally' work with the team, or win a rally in yet another generation of cars. No, it's about his ability and experience in developing rally cars. There has never been a driver involved in developing as many rally- and championship-winning cars as Sebastien Loeb. Ever.

Yet, just like with hyundai and neuville today, only loeb was able to drive the citroen at the limit. I still remember pieter tsjoen telling how much more difficult the c4 was to drive compared to the focus.

Loeb was and maybe still is a great driver, but i doubt his skills in developing a car for someone else.

[ouvreur]

Yet, just like with hyundai and neuville today, only loeb was able to drive the citroen at the limit. I still remember pieter tsjoen telling how much more difficult the c4 was to drive compared to the focus.

Loeb was and maybe still is a great driver, but i doubt his skills in developing a car for someone else.

Pieter Tsjoen isn't a bad driver, by any stretch of the imagination, he certainly won a lot of Belgian and French rallies in and I mean him no disrespect, but... how many truly world class drivers ever got to drive a proper works one? I don't think Gronholm, Solberg or Latvala would have struggled in it.

Also, the Xsara WRC and DS3 WRC won plenty of rallies with 'other' drivers at the wheel - it's just that Loeb won more. The moment Citroen changed lead development driver, the C3 happened. It could be a coincidence. But I doubt it.

[mknight]

There has never been a driver involved in developing as many rally- and championship-winning cars as Sebastien Loeb. Ever.


I find this claim extremely doubtful, but sure do provide data to defend it.

Afaik Loeb was involved in developing 3 cars (Xsara - most of development by Bugalski before Loeb even started afaik, C4 and DS3).
3 cars... out of these Xsara was clearly best car, other two were rather often comparable with Focus and Fiesta at the time, DS3 got blown away by Polo when it came).

He was involved in "late fixes" to C3 and I20, but that surely doesn't count as "developing"?

[dimviii]

I find this claim extremely doubtful, but sure do provide data to defend it.

Afaik Loeb was involved in developing 3 cars (Xsara - most of development by Bugalski before Loeb even started afaik, C4 and DS3).
3 cars... out of these Xsara was clearly best car, other two were rather often comparable with Focus and Fiesta at the time, DS3 got blown away by Polo when it came).

He was involved in "late fixes" to C3 and I20, but that surely doesn't count as "developing"?

+1
i think Mikkelsen is better developer.

[AndyRAC]

Also, the Xsara WRC and DS3 WRC won plenty of rallies with 'other' drivers at the wheel - it's just that Loeb won more. The moment Citroen changed lead development driver, the C3 happened. It could be a coincidence. But I doubt it.

It might have helped if Citroen had actually listened to their development driver (and qualified engineer) - instead of thinking they know best. Then when it was too late getting other drivers in to confirm the original drivers feedback.

[Mirek]

Yet, just like with hyundai and neuville today, only loeb was able to drive the citroen at the limit. I still remember pieter tsjoen telling how much more difficult the c4 was to drive compared to the focus.

Loeb was and maybe still is a great driver, but i doubt his skills in developing a car for someone else.

C4 WRC with asphalt center differential had an uneven torque split in favor of the rear axle. That's why it was a bitch to drive and only Loeb and Sordo mastered it. It's true that it didn't fit nearly anyone else (most of the scared privateers used gravel center diff on asphalt I believe). On the other hand situation like that is basically impossible to create with the new cars because they don't have the center diff at all and as such they naturally understeer.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-this-the-end-of-rally-mexico/
I am aware the 2022 calendar is pretty much set in stone at this point (at least most of it), but does anyone think Rally Mexico will be back in the year or 2 after?

[cmac]

Loeb will start Monte Carlo in the puma.
They have agreed 3-4 more rallies after which are yet to be decided.
The car will be payed for by Red Bull.

[bandit12]

Loeb will start Monte Carlo in the puma.
They have agreed 3-4 more rallies after which are yet to be decided.
The car will be payed for by Red Bull.

With Elena?

[cmac]

I dont know the answer to that.

[Eli]

Loeb will start Monte Carlo in the puma.
They have agreed 3-4 more rallies after which are yet to be decided.
The car will be payed for by Red Bull.

So Breen-Loeb-Fourmaux for M-Sport in Monte?

[mknight]

Monte is clearly one of his best rallies and he might do well on a good day (podium?). He also certainly wants to improve on his 2020 performance there.

But the pairing with Dakar sounds pretty crazy, both performance and risk-wise.

Performance wise he should spend many days doing day-long exhausting stages in the desert then fly straight in to the recce ( so test before Dakar) and competition at the age of 47 against guys who only prepare for the rally and are 15+ years younger.
Risk wise any small injury in Dakar and it's over, maybe more importantly COVID rules can still change on quick notice, a day more stuck here or there and he won't make it.

That said MSport doesn't seem to be aiming for any real manu title effort. So if they start with 2 cars, it won't matter much for anything.

[TypeR]

if only they had signed Mikkelsen.. M-Sport would win both titles even with 1 car.
Rookies.

[seb_sh]

Monte is Monte, 1 stage with the right or wrong tyres can make the difference and for that Loeb is one of the best ever. Also perhaps more importantly Red Bull is paying. It'll be a great year for Fourmaux as well, learning from the master. I agree Mikkelsen is missing there but it seems there is no money for him.

[mknight]

Monte is Monte, 1 stage with the right or wrong tyres can make the difference and for that Loeb is one of the best ever.

Last time in 2020 Loeb lost 2 positions on Sunday (4. to 6.) due to picking wrong tires.

Anyway the main risk here is the timing of Dakar.

[Andre Oliveira]

M-SPORT TO RUN FOUR CARS ON 2022 MONTE – ONE COULD BE FOR LOEB

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-to-run-four-cars-on-2022-monte-one-could-be-for-loeb/?fbclid=IwAR1B0IXy2M34zk5zm7kszKHaEPnDmPeAFYMxTIHQ HlFJiY_du4TliuGndu8

[macebig]

4 cars doesn't mean 4 Pumas... #just saying

[Andre Oliveira]

RMC

Loeb
Breen
Fourmaux with Ingrassia
Greensmith

Sweden

Breen
Fourmaux
Huttunen
Greensmith

Last rumour i heard.

[EstWRC]

Where did you left Ott? you posted in silly season thread that Tänak signed with msport ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Not me. I shared Tempestini comment.

[mknight]

4 cars doesn't mean 4 Pumas... #just saying

"DirtFish sources have confirmed M-Sport has four cars in build for January’s Monte Carlo Rally"

They don't need to build Fiestas. So it means 4 Pumas.

[mknight]

Sweden

Breen
Fourmaux
Huttunen
Greensmith

Last rumour i heard.


Well that would be interesting and really good for Huttunen.

But I kind of struggle to match it with him not having any? money to fund his drives. Off course it could be he gets it for "free" if he signs for the "devil" with a "future earnings" contract like Evans and Tanak were rumored to have.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"DirtFish understands the four cars being readied for Monte Carlo could also be present at round two, Rally Sweden, where a potential Loeb car could be taken by a customer."

Is Huttunen as a customer with personal sponsors possible ? Maybe Malcolm will give him a good price to encourage others...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ypres is now slotted for July 2022 on the Belgian Rally Ch'ship calendar and also rumoured to be back in the ERC.

[mknight]

Is Huttunen as a customer with personal sponsors possible ? Maybe Malcolm will give him a good price to encourage others...

That was kind of my point. Afaik Huttunen does not have a lot of personal sponsors.

[seb_sh]

Where did you left Ott? you posted in silly season thread that Tänak signed with msport ;)

Obviously Ott does not have money for Puma and will drive old spec Fiesta. :P

[rallyfiend]

"DirtFish understands the four cars being readied for Monte Carlo could also be present at round two, Rally Sweden, where a potential Loeb car could be taken by a customer."

Is Huttunen as a customer with personal sponsors possible ? Maybe Malcolm will give him a good price to encourage others...

Bertelli usually pops up for Sweden / Arctic

[cmac]

Mikkelson is having talks with msport about selected rallies but a deal is not close yet.

[Andre Oliveira]

With Hyundai?

[skarderud]

Mikkelson is having talks about selected rallies but a deal is not close yet.Hyundai has 2C, Toyota put in a new team as second/jr team, can M-sport put in a RedBull team with Loeb/Fourmaux/Mikkelsen? Breen and Greensmith in "main" team.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Kenneth]

Is Huttunen as a customer with personal sponsors possible ? Maybe Malcolm will give him a good price to encourage others...


Yeah, and he is managed by Gronholm, so maybe that could help too.

[rp]

Yeah, and he is managed by Gronholm, so maybe that could help too.

Surely Gronholm´s good relationship with Malcolm will help a lot also...

[AnttiL]

Hyundai has 2C, Toyota put in a new team as second/jr team, can M-sport put in a RedBull team with Loeb/Fourmaux/Mikkelsen? Breen and Greensmith in "main" team.


LOL at putting those drivers in second team and Greensmith in main team. I think the goal is still to win the manufacturers title, and they could have a chance if the car is better than the others, and in that case you need all the best drivers in the main team, and "paying customers" in the second team. But entering a second team costs extra money, so maybe they decide not to do it.

[skarderud]

LOL at putting those drivers in second team and Greensmith in main team. I think the goal is still to win the manufacturers title, and they could have a chance if the car is better than the others, and in that case you need all the best drivers in the main team, and "paying customers" in the second team. But entering a second team costs extra money, so maybe they decide not to do it.Yeah, it would be quite funny, has it happened that second team beats first team?:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[bandit12]

Yeah, it would be quite funny, has it happened that second team beats first team?:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I might remembet incorrectly but, wasn't Tänak on DMacks constantly better than Ostberg and Camilli in main team?

[AnttiL]

I might remembet incorrectly but, wasn't Tänak on DMacks constantly better than Ostberg and Camilli in main team?

Faster but not as consistent. Sardinia, Poland and Wales were the only occasions where he finished higher than the best M-Sport car. Also scored less points than Östberg.

https://juwra.com/season_2016_points.html

[EstWRC]

yeah, the rallies where dmack allowed to be better, he was...the tires were so unstable, working or not working at all...the overheating was the main problem

quite a big contrast in stage wins though that year, Tänak got 30, Ostberg only 2 and Camilli 1

[seb_sh]

Yeah, it would be quite funny, has it happened that second team beats first team?:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

It was close in 2013 with Neuville in second MSport team. Only 6 points and he was pretty much alone.

[Danny0405]

Interesting if M-Sport is able to manage 4 cars as soon as Monte Carlo; might help some drivers (Mikkelsen, Bulacia, Gryazin?) through the season and especially interesting for Huttunen if he can do a couple of drives, it might be the booster he needed.

[dimviii]

The Northern Irishman has been testing the Czech Republic firm’s next generation Fabia Rally2 car this year and Škoda Motorsport director Michal Hrabánek says he would like to convert the five-time world rally winner’s test contract into a deal to have him in the thick of the WRC2 fight for next season.

“It would be interesting to see him [competing] in a Škoda Fabia Rally2,” Hrabánek said. “We have done – and we are doing – some work with Kris already. We are very happy with him and the way things are going.”

Hrabánek pointed out that any kind of Meeke return would have to come with one of Škoda Motorsport’s customer teams, in the same way Andreas Mikkelsen competed with German-based Toksport outfit this season to win WRC2.

He continued: “We are focused on the testing and the development with the new car, we haven’t discussed any kind of competition. As you know Škoda Motorsport does not compete as a factory team, so any kind of competition would have to come through one of our customers.

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc2/skoda-boss-enthusiastic-about-tempting-meeke-back/

[Mirek]

The Northern Irishman has been testing the Czech Republic firm’s next generation Fabia Rally2 car this year and Škoda Motorsport director Michal Hrabánek says he would like to convert the five-time world rally winner’s test contract into a deal to have him in the thick of the WRC2 fight for next season.

“It would be interesting to see him [competing] in a Škoda Fabia Rally2,” Hrabánek said. “We have done – and we are doing – some work with Kris already. We are very happy with him and the way things are going.”

Hrabánek pointed out that any kind of Meeke return would have to come with one of Škoda Motorsport’s customer teams, in the same way Andreas Mikkelsen competed with German-based Toksport outfit this season to win WRC2.

He continued: “We are focused on the testing and the development with the new car, we haven’t discussed any kind of competition. As you know Škoda Motorsport does not compete as a factory team, so any kind of competition would have to come through one of our customers.

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc2/skoda-boss-enthusiastic-about-tempting-meeke-back/

AFAIK That statement is from roughly two months back. No idea why they released it now on wrc.com (unless Hrabánek didn't repeat exactly the same thing again himself).

[RS]

I could see Meeke competing in WRC2 with Skoda if Mikkelsen doesn’t continue with them, they certainly seem happy with him as a test driver as it appears he has done the bulk of the mileage on the new car so far.

[dimviii]

Ogier set a best time of 1m50.647s, admitting that he made an error on what should have made his main effort with fresh tires. That was just under two seconds away from Toyota regular Mike Conway, just over a second and a half off Buemi and one second slower than Toyota’s other rookie – 20-year-old Frenchman Charles Milesi, who had been part of Team WRT’s LMP2 title-winning line-up this year.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-ogiers-wec-test-debut-told-us-about-his-2022-wrc-plans/

[mknight]

Yep the Meeke comments from Hrabanek were published by Dirtfish some 2 months ago, so strange WRC.com copied them two months later.

Meeke surely can show speed of the car and give feedback.

But he isn't exactly the obvious choice for any championship push with his stability, though dropping worst result in both WRC2 and ERC helps.

[AndyRAC]

Ogier set a best time of 1m50.647s, admitting that he made an error on what should have made his main effort with fresh tires. That was just under two seconds away from Toyota regular Mike Conway, just over a second and a half off Buemi and one second slower than Toyota’s other rookie – 20-year-old Frenchman Charles Milesi, who had been part of Team WRT’s LMP2 title-winning line-up this year.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-ogiers-wec-test-debut-told-us-about-his-2022-wrc-plans/

He needs loads more seat time; as the article mentions, he needs to get in a car and test/race, preferably a prototype, but a GT would still be better than no drive.

[AnttiL]

Hyundai won't have customer Rally1 cars

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-wont-run-private-rally1-cars-like-m-sport/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai won't have customer Rally1 cars

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-wont-run-private-rally1-cars-like-m-sport/

More confirmation that Hyundai are still behind the others.

Also the cost of a hybrid is more than the current cars.

Not good for the drivers hoping for more seats or fans hoping to watch more cars.

[ouvreur]

More confirmation that Hyundai are still behind the others.

Also the cost of a hybrid is more than the current cars.

Not good for the drivers hoping for more seats or fans hoping to watch more cars.

Adamo saying "we are behind" again, isn't proof... nobody truly knows, and it's in his interest to make Toyota and M-Sport believe Hyundai are less of a threat. We will only know the truth in the south of France, in January.

Can't argue with the rest of what you've said though. More cost and less cars isn't a recipe for success - unless they're interesting to watch, and give us exciting rallies to follow. Again, we will see in January, but I don't feel so confident about that.

[macebig]

Replacing an already expensive category of cars with an even more expensive one is not a good idea...

[rallyfiend]

Adamo saying "we are behind" again, isn't proof... nobody truly knows, and it's in his interest to make Toyota and M-Sport believe Hyundai are less of a threat. We will only know the truth in the south of France, in January.

Can't argue with the rest of what you've said though. More cost and less cars isn't a recipe for success - unless they're interesting to watch, and give us exciting rallies to follow. Again, we will see in January, but I don't feel so confident about that.

They're not even running the actual 2022 car. That's proof.

They're behind....

[ouvreur]

They're not even running the actual 2022 car. That's proof.

They're behind....

And the others are all, of course, running the same spec of car that will cross the start ramp in Monaco in January?

It's all smoke and mirrors. Believe nothing!

[mknight]

Hyundai won't have customer Rally1 cars

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-wont-run-private-rally1-cars-like-m-sport/

Well Adamos job is first and foremost to win titles and not make money.
He failed to win a single one of the 4 they aimed at before start of the season.

The main question is what this means for Loubet (and Veiby?).

[rp]

The main question is what this means for Loubet (and Veiby?).

It means that they are driving Puma...

[WRCStan]

...if they are still driving Rally1.

[EstWRC]

They're not even running the actual 2022 car. That's proof.

They're behind....

As we can see from the testing thread today Toyota wasn’t either…..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As we can see from the testing thread today Toyota wasn’t either…..

Not the finished car no, but they have been using the new Yaris GR bodyshape, not an old Yaris WRC mule.

Plus Tom Fowler confirmed in Sept that they are jumping forward now as the driveline, transmission & suspension are settled.

[ouvreur]

Not the finished car no, but they have been using the new Yaris GR bodyshape, not an old Yaris WRC mule.

Plus Tom Fowler confirmed in Sept that they are jumping forward now as the driveline, transmission & suspension are settled.

You mean just like Hyundai have been using the new i20 N body shape, not an old i20 Coupe mule?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So why exactly does the Toyota test car show they are as far behind (M-Sport) as Hyundai ?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDwcBV2XMAAUsFE?format=jpg&name=large

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-could-run-fourth-car-in-second-half-of-2022/

So instead of sharing the third car, Both Solberg jr. & Sordo will compete for the second half of the season.

[TypeR]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-could-run-fourth-car-in-second-half-of-2022/

So instead of sharing the third car, Both Solberg jr. & Sordo will compete for the second half of the season.
and the problem is..?
Too many new cars in startlist? :D
They are signed Hyundai drivers and why shouldn't they drive if team can prepare the cars?

[mknight]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-could-run-fourth-car-in-second-half-of-2022/

So instead of sharing the third car, Both Solberg jr. & Sordo will compete for the second half of the season.

Adamo doesn't say (and neither does the article directly) that the 4th car would be for Sordo.

Sure running Solberg on rallies when he is not scoring makes sense, but for 4th car in Estonia, Finland and NZ it would make more sense to run for example Suninen.

[Eli]

and the problem is..?
Too many new cars in startlist? :D
They are signed Hyundai drivers and why shouldn't they drive if team can prepare the cars?

Didn't say it was a problem lol, the way I see it, the more the merrier.

[Eli]

Adamo doesn't say (and neither does the article directly) that the 4th car would be for Sordo.

Sure running Solberg on rallies when he is not scoring makes sense, but for 4th car in Estonia, Finland and NZ it would make more sense to run for example Suninen.

Also true but again, still a long long way to go until we'll actually see what's what (& see how Suninen gets on next weekend).

[Andre Oliveira]

“ He will be assured of a drive in the Hyundai i20N Rally2 car for one of the World Rally Championship events in 2022.”

https://kawowo.com/2021/11/11/tundo-talks-arc-experience-and-hyundai-offer/

[EstWRC]

Wuorela at it again, seems to be pretty confident that Ott doesnt continue

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1458797814507610119

[TypeR]

Jarveoja just got his new Tucson couple of days ago.. seems that they are staying :D
And why should Tanak test with new car after all.
Motivation was rather the question..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Wings on the Yaris GR Rally1 aero development:

"The development testing season for the 2022 Rally1 cars is reaching its climax as the end of the year approaches, with the design phase almost complete and the teams have already started the homologation process. Now it’s time to test the final designs, so we can discover some of the new solutions for the cars. This week, it was Toyota who tested the 2022 GR Yaris Rally1 car on some gravel roads of Central Catalonia."

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/11/12/rear-aero-modifications-in-the-2022-toyota-gr-yaris-rally1/

[dimviii]

WRC - Thierry Neuville before Monza: "If I will miss Ogier? The driver yes, the character no"

Winner of the last two asphalt rallies, Thierry Neuville is one of the favorites for the final round of the season at Monza. 3rd in the general classification before this final rally, he must finish ahead of Kalle Rovanpera, his last opponent, to definitively lock this place on the world championship podium.

He will also attend, from afar, the battle for the title between Sébastien Ogier and Elfyn Evans. But does he have a favorite? Not sure. "Between the two, it's going to be a good fight. They both deserve it," he explains over Olivier Gaspard.

“Evans, like us, has had quite a bit of mechanical trouble throughout the season. Ogier, nothing at all, apart from a little outing in Sweden he didn't have the slightest hitch. , we do not count the number of victories but the number of points "adds Neuville.

Monza will be the last race of Ogier’s final season, which is heading towards an 8th World Championship title. Ogier, an opponent who has marked Neuville throughout these years of fierce competition between the two pilots: "It is a real pleasure for us to measure ourselves against him. We had some great fights. We were able to win some of them. , some others were lost.

It has always been an additional motivation for us to give our all. If I will miss him? The character, no, but the pilot clearly. In a championship, we want to have as many great drivers as possible. So, yes he will be missed. Afterwards, the next generation is there, young people are arriving and they will soon be at the level of the best. There will be great fights "
The constructors' title for Hyundai?

Another issue that persists is the constructors' title, which will fall either into the hands of Toyota (474 ​​points) or Hyundai (427). Asked about the subject, the driver Hyundai Neuville was rather defeatist: "I think that this year, we do not deserve this title. We have known too many worries. What was our strong point in the past has become one of our weak points. This is also one of the reasons why this weekend we are no longer fighting for the title. For the constructors' title, there is very little chance. If there were still any, I thinks Ott Tanak would be there. "

So Neuville, favorite of this rally on asphalt? "Yes, I'm part of it but there are others. We saw it well in Spain, Dani Sordo was very fast, Elfyn Evans too. And then there will be others who will be surprising. The course remains atypical, so we can expect surprises. The keys to winning? It all depends on the weather, the choice of tires and the strategy. We must not make mistakes, that's what made us happy. cost victory here last year. "

A Top 3? "I want to get back to 1, it worked well in Spain. Then it will be Elfyn Evans and Sébastien Ogier" concluded Neuville.

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_wrc-thierry-neuville-avant-monza-si-ogier-va-me-manquer-le-pilote-oui-le-personnage-non?id=10880624

[WRC1]

WRC - Thierry Neuville before Monza: "If I will miss Ogier? The driver yes, the character no"

charakter wins no Titels.....i thought Mimimi Hamilton is in F1, but now we have also a Mimimimi in WRC :)

[dimviii]

Ogier ‘sometimes regrets’ not deciding to retire now

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-sometimes-regrets-not-deciding-to-retire-now/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCVFtpCXIA0TEaO?format=jpg&name=large

So, let’s start new WRC2/3 era.

[WRCStan]

So, let’s start new WRC2/3 era.

There's nothing new about WRC, SWRC, PWRC.

Let's go!

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/fia-launches-global-rally-ranking-system-from-2022/

FIA rally driver ranking coming for 2022

[Tom K]

On the FIA website they published useful scheme but in very small resolution...

2197

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/image1_0.png?itok=Q-81xY4A

[WRCStan]

So last weekend

Ogier = 1.0 * ((30*10) + (30 * 10 * 0.3 * 1)) = 390
Lukyanuk = 0.5 * ((30*10) + (30 * 20 * 0.3 * 0.7)) = 213
Lazslo Zoltan = 1.0 * ((0*10) + (30 * 1 * 0.3 * 0.5)) = 4.5

Jari Huttunen = 1.0 * ((2*10) + (17 * 20 * 0.3 * 0.7)) = 91.4
Andrea Crugnola = 1.0 * ((7*10) + (30 * 20 * 0.3 * 0.7)) = 196

Kalle Rovanpera = 1.0 * ((9*10) + (9 * 10 * 0.3 * 1)) = 117
Patrizia Perosino = 1.0 * ((0*10) + (0 * 20 * 0.3 * 0.7)) = 0


I think.

[AndyRAC]

I'm not sure what purpose it serves. Does it really add any value to the sport? I'd much rather they concentrate on working to add more manufacturers to the paltry 3 we currently have.

[WRCStan]

Might help with onboarding sponsors when a driver wants to climb in and drive a Toyota, Hyundai, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot, Proton, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Renault, Abarth, Alpine, or even Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Mini, Audi, Dacia...

[Tom K]

In official rules for GRR i do not see anything about additional points which are given for legs.

[Sulland]

For a Rally2 driver, it was harder competition in ERC than in WRC this year.
So it seems to be too much of a difference btw those two series.
Maybe ERC should be at 0,7 compared to WRC @ 1.0 and the other regional championships @ 0,4.

[mknight]

Well there is a coefficient for number of starters. WRC2 has so few this year that it should reduced the rankings.

No idea how it will work in 2022 with merging of WRC2/3.

[WRCStan]

For a Rally2 driver, it was harder competition in ERC than in WRC this year.
So it seems to be too much of a difference btw those two series.
Maybe ERC should be at 0,7 compared to WRC @ 1.0 and the other regional championships @ 0,4.

It's a lot harder v Rally1 overall, but yes it does multiply by class results too. Perhaps a ROI guarantee! I'm not sure I agree ERC was harder than combined WRC2/3.


Well there is a coefficient for number of starters. WRC2 has so few this year that it should reduced the rankings.

No idea how it will work in 2022 with merging of WRC2/3.

It's done by Rally2, so no difference between 2022 and 2021.

[TypeR]

why waste time, energy and money on another pointless thing..

That was only thing missing from world rallying..
It's so attractive that now new manus and drivers will run like crazy to participate!

[Mirek]

I'm not sure what purpose it serves. Does it really add any value to the sport? I'd much rather they concentrate on working to add more manufacturers to the paltry 3 we currently have.


why waste time, energy and money on another pointless thing..

The only reason why this exists is that some useless people emplyed by FIA need to show an activity to get paid. Same things happen in every corporate or bureaucratic structure.

[seb_sh]

Another example of FIA doing stupid stuff instead of having a proper strategy for developing WRC. They are behind all other categories of motorsport.

[dimviii]

Elena would not do Monte if Loeb makes WRC return

DirtFish understands if Loeb does the 2022 Monte Carlo Rally it will be with a new co-driver
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/elena-would-not-do-monte-if-loeb-makes-wrc-return/

[WRCStan]

Another example of FIA doing stupid stuff instead of having a proper strategy for developing WRC. They are behind all other categories of motorsport.

In what way are they behind? WRC is a production car world championship that actually exists and is heading into the 50th year. You guys should start a thread "how to develop WRC and attract new manufacturers".

This GRR initiative isn't about WRC, there's no points or championship and probably won't be mentioned at the top. If you don't like it and don't care for the regionals, nationals and emerging talent, don't look.

[Sulland]

10 or so years ago we had something called Castrol driver ranking. To try to find the best driver among WRC, F1 and Nascar.
I just found this, it could be more out there.
https://www.performancemagazine.org/the-best-driver-in-the-world-castrol-driver-rankings-for-formula-1-nascar-wrc/
https://f1banter.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/calculations.jpg

It is not an easy exercise to compare apples and pears, and I dont think that ranking lasted for many years.

Same with the rally ranking. It is made for a driver in a Rally1 car in WRC to win every time. So not easy to spot up and coming talent using this one!

But what the hell, lets enjoy the stats, and see how it can be made better year by year!

[kirungi okwogera]

The idea that the APRC is more competitive than a national competition, even NZRC to keep it in the same region... it just makes it some kind of FIA clout ranking, it's not to do with actual driver skill. There are national championships that far exceed the competitive depth of some of the regional ones.

[dimviii]

Daniel will not be with Seb at Monte
https://www.facebook.com/DanielElenaOfficiel/videos/393468335799386/

[AnttiL]

The idea that the APRC is more competitive than a national competition, even NZRC to keep it in the same region... it just makes it some kind of FIA clout ranking, it's not to do with actual driver skill. There are national championships that far exceed the competitive depth of some of the regional ones.

Maybe it’s the other way around, they persuade drivers to join APRC to get high ranking points? :P

[WRCStan]

It's limited to the Rally1-5 cars too so won't be a good representation of the quality in either APRC, NZ or a lot of nationals outside Europe. That should be fixed even if just outside WRC and Europe.

[becher]

Daniel will not be with Seb at Monte
https://www.facebook.com/DanielElenaOfficiel/videos/393468335799386/

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/elena-ends-wrc-co-driving-career/

Here some bits translated to english.

[EstWRC]

Hearing from a reliable source that Adamo MIGHT be out after all

https://streamable.com/8ud138

[Jakem]

Hearing from a reliable source that Adamo MIGHT be out after all

https://streamable.com/8ud138

And Markko Märtin from RedGrey will take his place?:D

[bandit12]

No. It will be Pernilla Solberg

[WRCStan]

Ott Tanak.

Satisfies retirement rumours, Monza refusal and continued (substantial) testing involvement.

You heard it here first.

[ouvreur]

Walter Rohrl.

He's German. It's so obvious.

You heard it here second.

[rallyfiend]

Andrew Johns

You heard it here third

[becher]

I heard Guy Verrier is in talks with them.

[mknight]

Well reading last Dirtfish news was on about same level as this...

Puma program (speculation) for some guy from down under that does 2-4 national rallies a year ending 4-6th in them and that nobody in Europe ever heard of.
At this rate we might end up hailing Greensmith as first rate WRC championship challenger soon.

[AnttiL]

To me it looked similar to the Jocius guy in 2020. At least this guy has a business he promotes through rallying.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-privateer-targeting-a-2022-wrc-puma-rally1-program/

Remember, these drives are never "taken away" from a young talent.

[mknight]

Remember, these drives are never "taken away" from a young talent.

That seems less and less to be true.

Most recent example, Greensmith "signed" for full year while Fourmaux is seemingly still haggling about money.

This guy talking about possible Puma starts while Huttunen says he knows nothing about next year.

Suninen is out of MSport already, etc.

If MSport can get "full price" from some guy with no hope for good result and much less from a "talent" it seems they go for the full price option.

[ouvreur]

That seems less and less to be true.

Most recent example, Greensmith "signed" for full year while Fourmaux is seemingly still haggling about money.

This guy talking about possible Puma starts while Huttunen says he knows nothing about next year.

Suninen is out of MSport already, etc.

If MSport can get "full price" from some guy with no hope for good result and much less from a "talent" it seems they go for the full price option.

They're a business, not a charity.

Rally cars cost money to build and run - who knew?

If the 'talent' hasn't got the money to run, the car stays at Dovenby Hall. It's not like the guy with €1 more steals the car away from them.

[AnttiL]

That seems less and less to be true.

Most recent example, Greensmith "signed" for full year while Fourmaux is seemingly still haggling about money.

This guy talking about possible Puma starts while Huttunen says he knows nothing about next year.

Suninen is out of MSport already, etc.

If MSport can get "full price" from some guy with no hope for good result and much less from a "talent" it seems they go for the full price option.

I'm quite sure this Australian dude will not be driving for manufacturer points. It will be a customer "gentleman" drive. Greensmith has blended the border here by making their way into the manufacturer team, but is also likely to score better manufacturer points than the average customer "gentleman".

It's also good to remember that these customers could be what keeps M-Sport in the business because they don't have the car manufacturer budget behind them.

[sti123]

Heard a rumor that New Zealand Rally will not take place and it will be replaced with rally Germany. Real pity if true.

[rallyfiend]

Heard a rumor that New Zealand Rally will not take place and it will be replaced with rally Germany. Real pity if true.

Is there a 'Rally Germany' to replace it?

After 2 years, surely there's not much left of the organisation....?

[MartijnS]

Indeed..
There is a new rally in the area of Rally Germany on the 1st and 2nd of July but only 6x 2 stages. :)

[TypeR]

lol, that's how it starts.. didn't expect it so early tho :D

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-ogier-isnt-ruling-out-a-future-full-time-wrc-return/

[ictus]

I'm quite sure this Australian dude will not be driving for manufacturer points. It will be a customer "gentleman" drive. Greensmith has blended the border here by making their way into the manufacturer team, but is also likely to score better manufacturer points than the average customer "gentleman".

It's also good to remember that these customers could be what keeps M-Sport in the business because they don't have the car manufacturer budget behind them.

Also bear in mind that such gentelman drivers will be able to compete in 2021 WRC cars in 2022

[mknight]

They're a business, not a charity.

Rally cars cost money to build and run - who knew?


Yep, they are business who's primary goal is to be profitable, not to win or perform well.

Results are just a requirement for
a) Ford to keep supporting them in some way (is it really?, seems like Ford doesn't care much about results as long as it's "MSport WRT").
b) Customers to keep paying them (and not go to Hyundai like Loubet and Veiby did, or rather drive WRC2 in a competitive car like Lappi, Mikkelsen and Suninen all did this year)
But part of their business model is also in raising and "selling" drivers, like Tanak and Evans. Hard to sell anyone if they only get non-competitive drivers.

Personally my long term issue with them is when they try to pretend otherwise (not only in press releases but also in interviews).

My long term issue with some fans is when they defend how this is great. It might be better than one less team, but only to a certain point. If it's as bad as this year they might as well have left for my part. (For someone standing on the road-side of a stage it is still better than less WRC cars for sure).

In either case any real fan of MSport should want them to be better and be able to compete, not defend how well they make money.




If the 'talent' hasn't got the money to run, the car stays at Dovenby Hall. It's not like the guy with €1 more steals the car away from them.

You know it's not like that. A talent like Huttunen surely has some sponsors that can pay say 70% of the price, doesn't get him a drive when MSport doesn't want to use any own money.
Would the car still stay in a garage if Huttunen with half the money was the only option (for example due to some rules, as was suggest when 2017 cars started)?

See also the above comment. A talent like Huttunen can potentially bring future profits, which is why MSport might "invest" in them and run them for less money as they have done with many drivers before.



Also bear in mind that such gentelman drivers will be able to compete in 2021 WRC cars in 2022
That article mentions Puma specifically.

[macebig]

Guess some posters don't anything more useful to do than shit on a team that was, is and will be in WRC (unlike the ones they support...) and has proven time and time they can challenge for the titles and win them when things go their way...

[logic]

Guess some posters don't anything more useful to do than shit on a team that was, is and will be in WRC (unlike the ones they support...) and has proven time and time they can challenge for the titles and win them when things go their way...

I cant like this post enough, then there´s the ones that think they know better and should be running the teams, its laughable.

[er88]

Guess some posters don't anything more useful to do than shit on a team that was, is and will be in WRC (unlike the ones they support...) and has proven time and time they can challenge for the titles and win them when things go their way...They challenge for titles (and very occasionally win them) when they act like a proper team and employ the best team/drivers possible. That's a fact.

They are getting a bit of stick for next for next year, because they told the world they had the means to try and attract at least one of the top top drivers which would've been millions in salary + a financial commitment to maintain proper development for a few yrs. In fact, Malcolm even said it would be his dream to have 3 strong drivers like he did with Ogier/Evans/Tanak....

So either they lied to their fans about that, or they've waved the white flag because they couldn't get (Tanak/Evans/Neuville), and decided to go into money making mode instead of employing the next best available drivers.

If they wanted to be a serious team they could've had Breen, Lappi and Mikkelsen in a 3 car team for a full year - that's still a damn good lineup (especially if the car has an early advantage). Then with full pay driver Greensmith in a 4th car and good prospect Fourmaux in a 5th car with red bull backing (possibly shared with Loeb, as Seb wants to do his 4rounds).

Instead, we effectively have pay drivers/ drivers with backing in the 2nd and 3rd cars, plus the pay/gentlemen drivers in the 4th/5th/6th cars too (besides Loeb for a few events).

It's great they're still in the WRC and will be here for years considering the business they have, but Ford also invests in them more than some people like to make out. They aren't hung out to dry by Ford.

[WRCStan]

Results are just a requirement for
a) Ford to keep supporting them in some way (is it really?, seems like Ford doesn't care much about results as long as it's "MSport WRT").


I think Ford are up on this arrangement, all the risk lies with M-Sport. If they cared about results they'd fully back a Ford team.


If it's as bad as this year they might as well have left for my part.

I've no doubt the feeling would be mutual.

[macebig]

Lappi was never an option (he was fixated on a Toyota return), and the door ain't closed yet on Mikkelsen. How is a line up of Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith as full season drivers with Mikkelsen/Loeb sharing the fourth Puma that bad is beyond me...

[Franky]

Tinted glasses seem to be in fashion when it comes to M-Sport.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/28/paddon-tipping-m-sport-ford-resurgence-in-2022-wrc/

[WRCStan]

Indeed..
There is a new rally in the area of Rally Germany on the 1st and 2nd of July but only 6x 2 stages. :)

What about August's round 9?: https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/74142-adac-saarland-pfalz-rallye-2022/

Ypres has set a June date http://www.rallye-infos.site/le-rallye-dypres-retrouve-sa-date-initiale-mais-la-lerc/

UK will be Republic of Ireland before a world class rally gets organised there.

Doesn't make Germany replacing NZ, but that and Japan are for good intentions anyway.

[AnttiL]

Lappi was never an option (he was fixated on a Toyota return), and the door ain't closed yet on Mikkelsen. How is a line up of Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith as full season drivers with Mikkelsen/Loeb sharing the fourth Puma that bad is beyond me...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc2/mikkelsen-commits-to-wrc2-as-top-tier-hopes-disintegrate/

Sorry, Mikkelsen likely won't be there.

[AnttiL]

Yep, they are business who's primary goal is to be profitable, not to win or perform well.

Results are just a requirement for
a) Ford to keep supporting them in some way (is it really?, seems like Ford doesn't care much about results as long as it's "MSport WRT").
b) Customers to keep paying them (and not go to Hyundai like Loubet and Veiby did, or rather drive WRC2 in a competitive car like Lappi, Mikkelsen and Suninen all did this year)
But part of their business model is also in raising and "selling" drivers, like Tanak and Evans. Hard to sell anyone if they only get non-competitive drivers.

Personally my long term issue with them is when they try to pretend otherwise (not only in press releases but also in interviews).

My long term issue with some fans is when they defend how this is great. It might be better than one less team, but only to a certain point. If it's as bad as this year they might as well have left for my part. (For someone standing on the road-side of a stage it is still better than less WRC cars for sure).

Have you already forgotten that M-Sport won the manufacturer title in 2017? And three drivers won rallies with their car that year? And Ogier took two world titles with that car? Next year we'll have new cars and the situation will likely be very equal again, so we could well have three equal teams fighting for the win in every rally. If they had left after 2020, perhaps they wouldn't be coming back now.

I'm totally fine with M-Sport having some gentleman drivers funding the team's survival. And once again, these gentleman drivers don't steal anyone's drives. Right now it seems M-Sport cannot invest in a young driver like they did with Evans and Tänak earlier. And even with them, it wasn't complete investment like Toyota does with Katsuta, I believe both had personal financial backing and for example Elfyn worked in the family business for quite long into his WRC career. These things are never simple or black and white, and we never get to hear the exact details.

And that article where they talk about "development" of the Australian driver like there was actually some results to be achieved...it's just PR talk and some sites allow you to buy that kind of articles where you can "advertise" a driver or team. It's also just business and it makes it possible for us to have awesome rally news for free.

WRC2 is obviously a different story. It seems M-Sport has abandoned the Fiesta Rally2 for now and I don't know how much they are selling them. Maybe now with Brexit, British drivers are more likely to use M-Sport and vice versa?

[cmac]

Have you already forgotten that M-Sport won the manufacturer title in 2017? And three drivers won rallies with their car that year? And Ogier took two world titles with that car? Next year we'll have new cars and the situation will likely be very equal again, so we could well have three equal teams fighting for the win in every rally. If they had left after 2020, perhaps they wouldn't be coming back now.

I'm totally fine with M-Sport having some gentleman drivers funding the team's survival. And once again, these gentleman drivers don't steal anyone's drives. Right now it seems M-Sport cannot invest in a young driver like they did with Evans and Tänak earlier. And even with them, it wasn't complete investment like Toyota does with Katsuta, I believe both had personal financial backing and for example Elfyn worked in the family business for quite long into his WRC career. These things are never simple or black and white, and we never get to hear the exact details.

And that article where they talk about "development" of the Australian driver like there was actually some results to be achieved...it's just PR talk and some sites allow you to buy that kind of articles where you can "advertise" a driver or team. It's also just business and it makes it possible for us to have awesome rally news for free.

WRC2 is obviously a different story. It seems M-Sport has abandoned the Fiesta Rally2 for now and I don't know how much they are selling them. Maybe now with Brexit, British drivers are more likely to use M-Sport and vice versa?


They most definately have'nt abandoned the R2. They have been working on 5 jokers for the car which they hope to be ready for the start of next yr. They are desperate to get this car back on the pace for the huge income it brings.

[AnttiL]

They most definately have'nt abandoned the R2. They have been working on 5 jokers for the car which they hope to be ready for the start of next yr. They are desperate to get this car back on the pace for the huge income it brings.

That's good to hear. Remember that R2 (which is Rally4) is something else than Rally2 (which is R5)

[Mirek]

Maybe now with Brexit, British drivers are more likely to use M-Sport and vice versa?

I think that Brexit actually made M-Sport services cheaper for EU customers.

[AnttiL]

I think that Brexit actually made M-Sport services cheaper for EU customers.

OK, good then :) but why?

[ouvreur]

I think that Brexit actually made M-Sport services cheaper for EU customers.

Unfortunately not. Whatever currency change there has been is nowhere near enough to outweigh the fact that it now takes significantly longer to ship things to and from the UK, with additional paperwork (that often causes issues) and cost. Plus, the company's ability to hire from outside the UK is now much harder and more complicated.

[Mirek]

OK, good then :) but why?

After the referendum results were announced in 2017 the GBP exchange rate crashed and it didn't recover till today but on the other hand there was no such crash after the Brexit actually happened in 2020 (there was a certain loss of value but it was later partially recovered).

[Mirek]

Unfortunately not. Whatever currency change there has been is nowhere near enough to outweigh the fact that it now takes significantly longer to ship things to and from the UK, with additional paperwork (that often causes issues) and cost. Plus, the company's ability to hire from outside the UK is now much harder and more complicated.

OK, thanks.

[becher]

That's good to hear. Remember that R2 (which is Rally4) is something else than Rally2 (which is R5)

Lets face it soon enoigh everyone will forget about it and will shorten it to R1,2,3,4,5.

[WRCStan]

Lets face it soon enoigh everyone will forget about it and will shorten it to R1,2,3,4,5.

Those Rs stood for Rallye in the first place, Rallye 3 are now a different class (RC4) than Rally3 so don't intentionally confuse people. Tell them Rally 2 is the old new Super Rally, which isn't the Super 2000-Rallye which R5 was brought in to restart the rules when Super 2000-Rallye were retired. Rally 2 or Super Rally is now Restarting after a Retirement, and Rally2 is a restarted name for R5 (which the term is now retired). Rallye 2, restarted as Rally4, might also be confused with Rally2-Kit which is the restarted name for R4-Kit, which wasn't the R4 before it.

Obviously you all know this but the layman doesn't. People will really thank you if you explain this whilst stage-side.

[mknight]

..because they told the world they had the means to try and attract at least one of the top top drivers which would've been millions in salary + a financial commitment to maintain proper development for a few yrs. In fact, Malcolm even said it would be his dream to have 3 strong drivers like he did with Ogier/Evans/Tanak....

So either they lied to their fans about that, or they've waved the white flag because they couldn't get (Tanak/Evans/Neuville), and decided to go into money making mode instead of employing the next best available drivers.


I am also undecided yet whether they lied from the start or changed their mind.

Anyway changing their mind is kind of ok. I can understand they won't tell for PR reasons.

What's a bit sickening is how they then PR push Greensmith and similar picks as top drivers. Note that this started as a deliberate PR effort before Greece.

What's even worse is the holy cow attitude displayed by some people. They lie you in the face and you congratulate them for it.

Yes they did extremely well on the start of the 2017 era. So it should outrage real fans that they will start the new era without seemingly having a chance.

[AnttiL]

M-Sport wanted a title contender, even names were mentioned: Ogier, Tänak, Neuville or Evans. They all either announced quitting or signed early for next year so M-Sport didn't get any of those. Then you are mad at M-Sport for not signing driver X. I don't understand.

I tried to explain this earlier. If you go to the car store to buy a Ferrari, you don't spend your money on a Fiat Uno if that's all they had that day, you save your money until the day Ferraris are available again.

(although hiring Breen defies this logic, but maybe that's now their title contender)

[AnttiL]

What's a bit sickening is how they then PR push Greensmith and similar picks as top drivers. Note that this started as a deliberate PR effort before Greece.



It's just team spirit lifting, and also could even be a part of their contract. They don't want Greensmith to take the money elsewhere. Imagine if they wrote "next up Greece...our drivers won't likely even make the top 5 but hey at least they pay us a decent amount of money!"

[ouvreur]

What's a bit sickening is how they then PR push Greensmith and similar picks as top drivers. Note that this started as a deliberate PR effort before Greece.
What are they supposed to do, in your opinion? Say absolutely nothing? Or even openly criticise a driver whose presence basically ensures the team still exists? It’s 2021, everyone is on social media, and I’m sure they’d get a kicking for being negative or silent.

For all his backing / family money, the man is a human being, one who has paid his dues to be in the position he’s in - whether you like it or not. He isn’t stealing a seat, or limelight from someone else. The hate he gets is vastly disproportionate to what he’s ‘done wrong’ in the eyes of people who just don’t seem to be able to understand the way the world / motorsport actually works.


Yes they did extremely well on the start of the 2017 era. So it should outrage real fans that they will start the new era without seemingly having a chance.
It is a shame that the amount of money it costs to be competitive in world rallying is so high. What’s outrageous is that the way things are set up has left us with only two ‘full’ manufacturer efforts, and little prospect of enticing any others to join in.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - the fact M-Sport are even willing to try should be praised. Any good results they earn are, in the face of the €€€€€ spent by Hyundai and Toyota, miraculous. I would hope that ‘real fans’ could see that.

[Andre Oliveira]

Mazda can enter Rally now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF6jfeoWUAIxwvV?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[EstWRC]

Hearing from a reliable source that Adamo MIGHT be out after all

https://streamable.com/8ud138

It’s not a MIGHT anymore and there’s a LOADS of controversy

[bandit12]

It’s not a MIGHT anymore and there’s a LOADS of controversy

You have been reading that Estonian Rallifoorum again?

[ouvreur]

"Hyundai Motorsport announces departure of Team Principal Andrea Adamo

• Hyundai Motorsport has reached a mutual agreement with Team Principal Andrea Adamo that will see him depart the company with immediate effect after six years
• In that time, Adamo has overseen the company’s Customer Racing department, as well as two titles in the WTCR – FIA World Touring Car Cup and FIA World Rally Championship
• President Scott Noh will assume Adamo’s responsibilities in the short-term ahead of the 2022 WRC season start at Monte-Carlo in January."

It's official, then...

[cali]

Here we go!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Still you guys laughing at me?

I’ll never write such a stuff without any background

[becher]

Ohh its gonna be a lot more boring now. Adamo is just brilliant.

[cali]

Ohh its gonna be a lot more boring now. Adamo is just brilliant.In front of the cameras yes, behind the cameras... Supposedly not so much

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Tauri_J]

Thank god that buffoon is gone.

[Rallyper]

Still you guys laughing at me?

I’ll never write such a stuff without any background

So, who´s coming...?

[doubled1978]

Interesting. Will it have any effect on the team positive or negative?

[drive]

Hyundai should rotate him as he has done with drivers 🤣

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGAWWftXwAAmUBH?format=jpg&name=medium

[becher]

In front of the cameras yes, behind the cameras... Supposedly not so much

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Well supposedly is the right word, judging by his overall career I can't believe he is as useless as some people would like to claim around here.

[lmmjvss]

Petter Solberg's phone is ready to recieve the call

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Personal reasons" again, like Tanak in Monza.

[flat_right]

It’s not a MIGHT anymore and there’s a LOADS of controversy

Could you elaborate more on this "LOADS" of controversy if you can? Would like to know more about the reason why it might have happened.

[AndyRAC]

Ohh its gonna be a lot more boring now. Adamo is just brilliant.

At what? He's one of the most hopeless team principals I've seen in motorsport....

[cali]

Well supposedly is the right word, judging by his overall career I can't believe he is as useless as some people would like to claim around here.Where did I say useless? Don't put words in my mouth.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Fitz]

I for one thought he was a good team principal but the car is a fundamentally flawed understeering pig sadly.

Looks like ex drivers as Team Principals is the way forward.

[ouvreur]

I wouldn't be so sure. There's more to the top job at HMSG than trying to win the WRC, and let's be honest, Latvala at Toyota isn't much more than a spokesman.

Whoever comes in will be responsible for WTCR, ETCR and the customer racing department. That's not a workload for the faint hearted...

[AnttiL]

I wouldn't be so sure. There's more to the top job at HMSG than trying to win the WRC, and let's be honest, Latvala at Toyota isn't much more than a spokesman.

The leadership roles are different at each team. In Toyota they have this "leader team" with Tom Fowler, Kaj Lindström, Jarmo Lehtinen and one fourth guy whose name I don't remember. Like those four guys are the government and Latvala is the president.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I reckon the pressure got to him after all the WRC failures of 2021 and now the crash of the 2022 Rally1 test car and even more work to be ready for Monte.

[AnttiL]

I reckon the pressure got to him after all the WRC failures of 2021 and now the crash of the 2022 Rally1 test car and even more work to be ready for Monte.

I strongly doubt Neuville's crash affected Adamo's exit. Decisions like this are not made overnight.

[cali]

First rumours were out at the end of summer so this is a long term issue and decision

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[becher]

Where did I say useless? Don't put words in my mouth.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Ähm no need to be offended, I didn't put words in your mouth (hence the ''some people'' i.e. not directed at you). Heck I even agreed that supposedly is the right word to use in the instance as non of use can truly know how good or bad he is as an engineer/team manager/principal.

[cali]

Ähm no need to be offended, I didn't put words in your mouth (hence the ''some people'' i.e. not directed at you). Heck I even agreed that supposedly is the right word to use in the instance as non of use can truly know how good or bad he is as an engineer/team manager/principal.OK, I must cool down :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

First rumours were out at the end of summer so this is a long term issue and decision

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I agree, but the new person should have already been hired which makes me wonder why they haven't been announced simultaneously.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I strongly doubt Neuville's crash affected Adamo's exit. Decisions like this are not made overnight.

The timing is a bit of coincidence though. Incidents like that can be the final straw.

[Andre Oliveira]

How many weeks to FIA homologation?

[Lancia Stratos]

The timing is a bit of coincidence though. Incidents like that can be the final straw.

It's nothing to do with performance, crashing or otherwise. This has been on the cards since Monza.

[flat_right]

Has this been shared here?

Miika Wuorela @MiikaWuorela
Replying to @DirtFishRally and @davidevansrally
Some positive things in the accident: the car did not end upside down in the flowing river and the hybrid unit did not show red light. It’s a difficult situation for the team to say the least. Not to Adamo though as he is heading to Formula One…
https://twitter.com/DirtFishRally/status/1467735273245134852

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Adamo's exit really has been 'coming for months' then the final timing of it is the worst possible for the new man. Talk about thrown in at the deep end...

[cali]

Has this been shared here?

Miika Wuorela @MiikaWuorela
Replying to @DirtFishRally and @davidevansrally
Some positive things in the accident: the car did not end upside down in the flowing river and the hybrid unit did not show red light. It’s a difficult situation for the team to say the least. Not to Adamo though as he is heading to Formula One…
https://twitter.com/DirtFishRally/status/1467735273245134852
Yes, rumours about Alfa Romeo if I'm not mistaken were appearing about a month ago. Who knows...

[seb_sh]

Yes, rumours about Alfa Romeo if I'm not mistaken were appearing about a month ago. Who knows...

A position recently opened up there: https://the-race.com/formula-1/revelations-from-resigned-sauber-chairman-a-shame-vasseur/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/david-evans-why-ill-miss-adamo-in-the-wrc/

"For those thinking this has anything to do with anything, you’re wrong. This is Adamo’s decision. Fact.

He made it last week and informed Korea and the team soon after."

[mknight]

First rumours were out at the end of summer so this is a long term issue and decision

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I posted the rumors when I heard them at Barum. That was the first time I saw anything.


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/david-evans-why-ill-miss-adamo-in-the-wrc/

"For those thinking this has anything to do with anything, you’re wrong. This is Adamo’s decision. Fact.

He made it last week and informed Korea and the team soon after."

It was also Loeb's decisions not to run 2020 Sweden for example. After bad Monte ( and bad Sweden the year before) Adamo asked if he really wanted to drive. Not hard to read between the lines ...

This could be the same. After the worst possible season ( not a single one of the 4 titles they targeted before start of the year (WRC+ WRC2 driver and manu). Someone maybe "asked".


The biggest risk is now for Solberg. New leadership maybe not die-hard fans of his like Adamo is. Unless he starts delivering some results he might have a problem with contract ending at the end of 2022. I warned about this already some 8 months ago.

[Lancia Stratos]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/david-evans-why-ill-miss-adamo-in-the-wrc/

"For those thinking this has anything to do with anything, you’re wrong. This is Adamo’s decision. Fact.

He made it last week and informed Korea and the team soon after."

The Andrea Adamo PR machine rumbles on........

[mknight]

The Andrea Adamo PR machine rumbles on........

You wrote here about a month ago that Adamo is staying for sure?

[dimviii]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/david-evans-why-ill-miss-adamo-in-the-wrc/

"For those thinking this has anything to do with anything, you’re wrong. This is Adamo’s decision. Fact.

He made it last week and informed Korea and the team soon after."

But I have a sneaking suspicion this isn’t the last we’re going to hear from Andrea Adamo in the World Rally Championship…

[Rallyper]

Petter will be perfect for the team.

[Andre Oliveira]

And horrible to Oliver.

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/david-evans-why-ill-miss-adamo-in-the-wrc/

"For those thinking this has anything to do with anything, you’re wrong. This is Adamo’s decision. Fact.

He made it last week and informed Korea and the team soon after."

That article is also another BS

He was fired and he was under investigation for assaulting a team member in monza. And countles other infractions.

You cannot resign with immediate effect that only comes when your contact is terminated.

[Eli]

That article is also another BS

He was fired and he was under investigation for assaulting a team member in monza. And countles other infractions.

You cannot resign with immediate effect that only comes when your contact is terminated.

That's what I thought when I saw 'with immediate effect', how would someone choose to retire with immediate effect, makes no sense.

If you have more info that you can share, it would be much appreciated.

[Lancia Stratos]

You wrote here about a month ago that Adamo is staying for sure?

Correct. Before Monza. I also wrote above: 'This has been on the cards since Monza'.

See previous posts.

[Mirek]

Petter Solberg's phone is ready to recieve the call

Please no.


Petter will be perfect for the team.

No, he wouldn't.

[macebig]

Rallying twitter seems to think that Hyundai may well call it a day for 2022 at least...

[Danny0405]

Not an awful period from Adamo as Hyundai’s team principal as he succeeded to clinch two manufacturers titles in a limited time (hired quite late to prepare 2019 season and then, complicated to make the car evolve a lot with Covid + new regulation in 2022).
He may have brought some optimization to the team but no real decisive choices from him:
- Loeb was hired by the Penasse-Nandan duo and finally did not deliver much than Paddon from a result-wise point of view
- Tanak’s deal has not been that successful even if it helps to clinch 2020
- he was quite helped by Toyota’s choices to clinch the titles (Meeke was maybe the only réal Makinen’s mistake and Rovanpera was an investment)
- but never find a solution to solve the car issues to face really Toyota.

[Eli]

Rallying twitter seems to think that Hyundai may well call it a day for 2022 at least...

If they leave, the WRC will die soon after. Hopefully that won't be the case but in these times, anything is possible :(

[Sulland]

Please no.

No, he wouldn't.

Why do you feel he does not qualify in a position like this? Would be nice with some sentences of explanation?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

andreaadamo_official
Another challenge is in front of me, maybe more complicated, different.
Will face with same approach: always be serious, but never take myself too much seriously.
Cannot hide tears in my eyes thinking to all my people in @hmsgofficial: thanks to all women and men that have shared so many emotions with me
Will never forget our time together.
My warmest hug.

[AnttiL]

Rallying twitter seems to think that Hyundai may well call it a day for 2022 at least...

Wait, where? I haven't seen...

[mknight]

Not an awful period from Adamo as Hyundai’s team principal as he succeeded to clinch two manufacturers titles in a limited time (hired quite late to prepare 2019 season and then, complicated to make the car evolve a lot with Covid + new regulation in 2022).
He may have brought some optimization to the team but no real decisive choices from him:
- Loeb was hired by the Penasse-Nandan duo and finally did not deliver much than Paddon from a result-wise point of view
- Tanak’s deal has not been that successful even if it helps to clinch 2020
- he was quite helped by Toyota’s choices to clinch the titles (Meeke was maybe the only réal Makinen’s mistake and Rovanpera was an investment)
- but never find a solution to solve the car issues to face really Toyota.

2019 was overall good and he delivered (off course helped by Meeke+Latvala).
But in short I would say his "early success" with "quick decisions" went to his head and already starting from end of 2019 his decisions started to become less clever and more "have to do something" type of reactions. Where the "need" to do something usually prevailed over rational thinking.

The short 2020 season kind of covered him a bit cause there wasn't enough time to make big mistakes.

The car as it was led to drastic reduction of speed for Paddon (tarmac and some gravel), Mikkelsen ( tarmac), Loeb (tarmac) and Tanak (tarmac and slow gravel).

The question is how "unchangable" the car really was and how much was it due to delaying the changes. Nandan certainly had the approach that drives should just follow what engineers decide. Adamo started allowing big changes first in 2020 during the big COVID break

[mknight]

If they leave, the WRC will die soon after. Hopefully that won't be the case but in these times, anything is possible :(

It can have it's benefits, look at for example the endurance series.

When there is only one real manu, FIA doesn't really have to listen to them and their interests when setting up new rules. Meaning they can be radically different and more likely to attract completely new manus.

In short term it could mean a few seasons (1-3) with Rally2 or Rally2+ cars though.

Early to speculate though. Lets first wait who shows up in Monte.

[cali]

Wait, where? I haven't seen...Wuorela

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Eli]

It can have it's benefits, look at for example the endurance series.

When there is only one real manu, FIA doesn't really have to listen to them and their interests when setting up new rules. Meaning they can be radically different and more likely to attract completely new manus.

In short term it could mean a few seasons (1-3) with Rally2 or Rally2+ cars though.

Early to speculate though. Lets first wait who shows up in Monte.

It can, doesn't mean it will, the WRC is a much more fragile animal, but as you said, way to early to speculate, hopefully we're wrong and we'll see all 3 manufacturers in Monte.

[lmmjvss]

Damn, now all those articles about Hyundai being so late on the development of the cars, Msport and Toyota bringing a hundred Rally1 cars each for 2022... These things are starting to sound like a terrible warning :/

[Maui J.]

Mazda can enter Rally now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF6jfeoWUAIxwvV?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Force Motorsport in NZ have been building & running Mazda 2 AP4s for the last 4-5 years

[becher]

That article is also another BS

He was fired and he was under investigation for assaulting a team member in monza. And countles other infractions.

You cannot resign with immediate effect that only comes when your contact is terminated.

When you say assaulting you are not talking about the video of him shouting are you?

[er88]

If Hyundai were pulling out they would've announced it here and now surely, instead of putting in place an interim team leader and specifically stating plans are still go for the 22 season.

However if they start the 22 season horribly (and I mean not in the slightest bit competitive) I think they're the type of manufacturer that'll just pull the plug quickly.

However I expect them to be in the ball park despite all the testing panic and Adamo leaving. They're a proper team and have enormous resources behind them.

[WRCStan]

That's what I thought when I saw 'with immediate effect', how would someone choose to retire with immediate effect, makes no sense.

If you don't need a reference, employment or wages and don't care about burning bridges or any chaos in your wake then just do it.

I think its normal in some positions for the business to put you on gardening leave for your notice period or mutually agree termination where there is sensitive information or you are a public face or if you are going to a rival.

With that in mind, does David Evans know something? "I have a sneaking suspicion this isn’t the last we’re going to hear from Andrea Adamo in the World Rally Championship". But then also "you...will be sadly missed from the service park". Perhaps a higher role for another marque?

I dunno. He was always entertaining, that's about what I do know.

[WRCStan]

If they leave, the WRC will die soon after. Hopefully that won't be the case but in these times, anything is possible :(

motorsport.hyundai.com has been down for over a week now.

[the sniper]

If they go, we can't say the writing wasn't on the wall this time, in hindsight... More so than with Subaru, Suzuki and VW.

While it seems late to announce it, back in 2008, Suzuki announced their exit on the 15th December, Subaru on the 16th. Okay, there were wider economic influences back then, but still, there is precedent.

[EstWRC]

When you say assaulting you are not talking about the video of him shouting are you?

Of course not

[becher]

Of course not

So do you care to enlighten us about what happend? I didn't hear anything about this.

[Tauri_J]

Rally Estonia passes on sale now. 85 euros.

[Rallyper]

Please no.



No, he wouldn't.

You should argue why. Not only reject a quote.

[Eli]

If you don't need a reference, employment or wages and don't care about burning bridges or any chaos in your wake then just do it.

I think its normal in some positions for the business to put you on gardening leave for your notice period or mutually agree termination where there is sensitive information or you are a public face or if you are going to a rival.

With that in mind, does David Evans know something? "I have a sneaking suspicion this isn’t the last we’re going to hear from Andrea Adamo in the World Rally Championship". But then also "you...will be sadly missed from the service park". Perhaps a higher role for another marque?

I dunno. He was always entertaining, that's about what I do know.

Yes that's also a possibility but anyhow, if I had to guess, he would still get the boot even without that mutual agreement to leave.

[mknight]

You should argue why. Not only reject a quote.

P. Solberg as a team boss would be mostly bad for O. Solberg himself. He and Pernilla appear more like fanboys than somebody that can make unpopular decisions that Oliver needs to follow. For reference see the Oliver Solberg movie if you didn't yet.

That is perfectly understandable since they are parents, but also what disqualifies Petter from the job.

Another thing is how would the atmosphere in the team work with other drivers.

[seb_sh]

my 2 cents Petter would probably not be a bad team boss considering he ran his own team for a while and won WRX titles, maybe not the same scale but i'm sure there are capable people already in place to help him. However the combination of Petter/Pernilla/Oliver is not healthy for anybody in my opinion.

I'm curious what happens next, lots of rumors flying around.