Reckless Alonso Manoeuvre!!!

[mervyn charter]

Alonso almost caused a massive shunt after his first corner off in in spain yesterday. I`m surprised more was not made of this as he almost took off his team-mate Hamilton, raikkonen, and the BMW`s when re-joining the track. This really was extremely dangerous driving, and reflected a sign of Alonso`s desperation at the fact that he has a team-mate giving him all he can handle, and then some.

[blakebeatty]

I agree that this was potentially the result of a frustrated Alonso

[AJP]

I'm not putting blame on Alonso for the incident..
He moved to the racing line first and left Massa with enough room in turn one, but as they enter turn two, it is Massa that leaves no room for Alonso. This is where they touch hard enough for Alonso to go of the track.

So, the way I see it, I think Massa should have left some more room for Alonso and we may well have had Alonso finsih the race in first or second.

Massa went straight for the apex on turn two knowing Alonso was there and there was only one place for him to go..and that was off the track. Anyway, nothing serious happened so it's just a racing incident.

[wmcot]

I'm a Ferrari fan, but I don't think either driver was "reckless." Most races are won or lost in the first corner these days so the leading drivers really have to go for it. I suspect we'll see more hard racing into the first turns at many tracks this year.

[Loneranger]

Screw that! This was some good old hard nosed racing. Something some of you apparently have forgotten what it is. Two guys fighting for position and the guy with the bigger balls won! It was awesome and a nice change from the parades that have plagued F1 for years. You finally have some guys that aren't afraid to hang it out and race each other. It was fabulous.

[wmcot]

Screw that! This was some good old hard nosed racing. Something some of you apparently have forgotten what it is. Two guys fighting for position and the guy with the bigger balls won! It was awesome and a nice change from the parades that have plagued F1 for years. You finally have some guys that aren't afraid to hang it out and race each other. It was fabulous.

We're not used to seeing wheel-to-wheel racing anymore. Look at G. Villeneuve and Arnoux at Dijon in 1979(?) If two of today's cars raced like that, the wheels would literally break off! Still, it's nice to see when it happens (like in Spain)

[pino]

Alonso told the spanish media " I am no saying Massa did cause my off but... I entered the turn before him. There's also a poll on marca.com and most people agree with him, yes what else ? :p : Personally I think it was pure racing, I enjoyed, and I was delighted this time to see Massa showing his balls ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Alonso told the spanish media " I am no saying Massa did cause my off but... I entered the turn before him. There's also a poll on marca.com and most people agree with him, yes what else ? :p : Personally I think it was pure racing, I enjoyed, and I was delighted this time to see Massa showing his balls ;)

Massa showed his balls? I missed that. Must have been watching the front of the cars instead. :D

[janneppi]

Alonso told the spanish media " I am no saying Massa did cause my off but... I entered the turn before him. There's also a poll on marca.com and most people agree with him, yes what else ? :p : Personally I think it was pure racing, I enjoyed, and I was delighted this time to see Massa showing his balls ;)
A real racer would have left the other guy room to fight back and not shunt him off the track. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

A real racer would have left the other guy room to fight back and not shunt him off the track. :p :

As the famous Moto racer Max Biaggi said: "This is not the classical music"

[pino]

A real racer would have left the other guy room to fight back and not shunt him off the track. :p :

So you're convinced that Alonso would have left place to Massa...keep dreaming mate and pass me that vodka :p :

[Cozzie]

He was certainly going out all or nothing which isn't smart for a title contender but lets not get into a would Schumi do that? discussion.

[janneppi]

So you're convinced that Alonso would have left place to Massa...keep dreaming mate and pass me that vodka :p :
Why would i think that?
It's not about who the drivers were, that sort of driving, while containing parts of male reproductive organs, is a bit un-sporting

[Ian McC]

Heh?

Forum vodka? Pass it round then! :D

That move was never going to work and it cost Alonso a place, could count for a lot at the end of the season.

[ioan]

He was never going to be faster than Felipe when reaching the 2nd corner because he didn't have the ideal line out of the 1st one.

[Flat.tyres]

Why would i think that?
It's not about who the drivers were, that sort of driving, while containing parts of male reproductive organs, is a bit un-sporting

2 drivers trying to get into the lead from the first corner. shock, horror!!

nothing unsporting if you ask me, just a bit of racing that was great to watch. Whoever got round it first was likely to win the race so a lot was at stake and no fault on either driver.

[F1boat]

Massa and Alonso did what they should have. They risked and one of them won. That's all.

[Donney]

They fought for position, one won the other didn't end of story.
Great for Massa better luck next time for Alonso.

[ioan]

The wort part of it was when FA regained the track, not the scrap with Felipe.

[Flat.tyres]

The wort part of it was when FA regained the track, not the scrap with Felipe.

heart in mouth stuff. he could have been a bit more careful but would have lost another 10 spots. great car control during the rejoin that reminded me a lot of schumacher. In fact, the single minded attitude of the young spaniad reminds me a lot of schumacher in his early days. wild, reckless, brave and supremely skillful with a double portion of arrogance.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A6bFlUn3qEs

[raphael123]

Alonso is a bit like Schumacher in the sense he is brave and supremely skillful, and can be reckless, but the biggest trait of MS in his early days was his unsportsmanship on track and cheating ways. I don't think that is part of Alonso's character, he always seems to be one of the fairest guys out on track I find.

[ShiftingGears]

Unless your name is Robert Doornbos :p : Remember Alonso in practice at Catalunya and Hungary last year? Not what I'd call sporting.

[ioan]

heart in mouth stuff. he could have been a bit more careful but would have lost another 10 spots. great car control during the rejoin that reminded me a lot of schumacher. In fact, the single minded attitude of the young spaniad reminds me a lot of schumacher in his early days. wild, reckless, brave and supremely skillful with a double portion of arrogance.


I would agree with the wild, reckless and arrogant part of it, but looking at the pictures of him rejoining the track there were more of the McLaren's wheels in the air than those touching the tarmac, I wouldn't call that great car control.

[ioan]

Alonso is a bit like Schumacher in the sense he is brave and supremely skillful, and can be reckless, but the biggest trait of MS in his early days was his unsportsmanship on track and cheating ways. I don't think that is part of Alonso's character, he always seems to be one of the fairest guys out on track I find.

Would you cheat if you don't have too?
Let's wait and see what Alonso will do when he will be clearly losing the game. Until now all he had to do was to protect an early large point gap, and even than there were some glimpses of unfairness on the track last season.

As for MS, maybe you are a bit confusing cheating with wild and reckless driving. :p :

[ioan]

Unless your name is Robert Doornbos :p : Remember Alonso in practice at Catalunya and Hungary last year? Not what I'd call sporting.

Very good point! :cool:

[GRAVETT]

arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh !!!! why why why must every little incident be so negativly analyzed. why cant people see the plain truth behind this specific move. first corner, big pressure and two guys wanting to win. this was simple hard racing. hats off to both ( both of whom im not at all fans of) for keeping thier feet in and showing some good ballsey driving.

[Flat.tyres]

Alonso is a bit like Schumacher in the sense he is brave and supremely skillful, and can be reckless, but the biggest trait of MS in his early days was his unsportsmanship on track and cheating ways. I don't think that is part of Alonso's character, he always seems to be one of the fairest guys out on track I find.

The overriding impression i have of his early days were his amazing car control and ability to do things that other drivers wouldnt think of. im not denying that there were accusations of cheating with electronics and tyres etc but ultimatly they werent proved (cough) by the FIA. thats all history now. there was also the 2 rather unfortunate incidents at the end of the season but he was pulled up on one.

what you have to accept though was his out n out ability to drive the car past the limit. he was bloody dangerous at the beginning but so exciting to watch. alonso is similar and i think lewis has the skill but ultimatly better natural car control. of all the drivers out there, the only 2 that were on a par with schumacher are those 2.

[ioan]

arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh !!!! why why why must every little incident be so negativly analyzed.

That's what we usually do around here.

[Valve Bounce]

arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh !!!! why why why must every little incident be so negativly analyzed. why cant people see the plain truth behind this specific move. first corner, big pressure and two guys wanting to win. this was simple hard racing. hats off to both ( both of whom im not at all fans of) for keeping thier feet in and showing some good ballsey driving.

I think this summed it up perfectly for me. We have seen many much more dangerous/desperate/catastrophic incidents on the first or second corner in F1. In fact this also occurs down the midfield or even further back. This is F1, not the classical music.

[Robinho]

i was surprised this wasn't brought up earlier, and am happy to see most people view it as a hard racing incident.

i don't think either driver could be blamed, Alonso had clearly got his nose very slightly ahead going into the corner, but Massa had the apex. IMO i think Alonso expected that Massa would have backed out and settled for 2nd (based on his form this year?), however Massa was clearly not going to be intimidated from the position and stuck to his ground, quite fairly IMO.

Had Alonso realised this he could have left slightly more room on the inside, rather than attempting to take the racing line and the apex. if he had they probably would have run side by side through the 1st and 2nd corners and it would have been resolved in the 3rd.

as it was he bit a bit too much of the line and contact was inevitable - racing incident but avoidable by either driver - although neither did anything wrong.

as for coming back on the circuit, it was very close to the other cars, but i think it was a product of the direction he was heading in and the speed caried accross the grass/dust/gravel. yes he wanted to rejoin as quick as possible to avoid losing any more places, but i don't think he could have done much else but park it and wait for the field to pass, which would never happen.

i'm glad Alonso tried the move, he had to, he knew the Ferrari race pace was to great to keep with and that he (and priobably Massa) were light, i'm also glad that Massa did what he had to and didn't yield, and whilst both drivers tentatively blamed each other, they stopped short of any accusations, both knowing that in the others position they would have done the same.

[Flat.tyres]

I think this summed it up perfectly for me. We have seen many much more dangerous/desperate/catastrophic incidents on the first or second corner in F1. In fact this also occurs down the midfield or even further back. This is F1, not the classical music.

totally agree with you both. some people want to turn motor racing into a pc, cotton wall procession. glad theres a couple of real fans left :)

[ioan]

i was surprised this wasn't brought up earlier, and am happy to see most people view it as a hard racing incident.

i don't think either driver could be blamed, Alonso had clearly got his nose very slightly ahead going into the corner, but Massa had the apex. IMO i think Alonso expected that Massa would have backed out and settled for 2nd (based on his form this year?), however Massa was clearly not going to be intimidated from the position and stuck to his ground, quite fairly IMO.

Had Alonso realised this he could have left slightly more room on the inside, rather than attempting to take the racing line and the apex. if he had they probably would have run side by side through the 1st and 2nd corners and it would have been resolved in the 3rd.

as it was he bit a bit too much of the line and contact was inevitable - racing incident but avoidable by either driver - although neither did anything wrong.

as for coming back on the circuit, it was very close to the other cars, but i think it was a product of the direction he was heading in and the speed caried accross the grass/dust/gravel. yes he wanted to rejoin as quick as possible to avoid losing any more places, but i don't think he could have done much else but park it and wait for the field to pass, which would never happen.

i'm glad Alonso tried the move, he had to, he knew the Ferrari race pace was to great to keep with and that he (and priobably Massa) were light, i'm also glad that Massa did what he had to and didn't yield, and whilst both drivers tentatively blamed each other, they stopped short of any accusations, both knowing that in the others position they would have done the same.

Chapeau!

[airshifter]

I didn't see anything wrong with Alonso making the attempt at the outside, or Massa keeping him from letting it work.

That entry back onto the track was really close. He's lucky he didn't take anyone out or get taken out himself.

[ioan]

Let's take a look at it:

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2007/spa/f1-2007-spa-xp-1252.jpg

It doesn't seems like he is having much control of what the car is doing. Lucky one!

[Easy Drifter]

An attempt to stop or anything else on the gravel/grass with zero traction could easily have resulted in a spin into the barriers or worse back on the track.

[schmenke]

Screw that! This was some good old hard nosed racing. Something some of you apparently have forgotten what it is. Two guys fighting for position and the guy with the bigger balls won! It was awesome and a nice change from the parades that have plagued F1 for years. You finally have some guys that aren't afraid to hang it out and race each other. It was fabulous.

:up:

[rlenis]

arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh !!!! why why why must every little incident be so negativly analyzed. why cant people see the plain truth behind this specific move. first corner, big pressure and two guys wanting to win. this was simple hard racing. hats off to both ( both of whom im not at all fans of) for keeping thier feet in and showing some good ballsey driving.

exactly, people complain for the lack of racing in F1 and drivers following each other, then they see this and complain. I don't understand really.

[wedge]

:up:

It's called racing!

Massa's balls have grown bigger over the past 6 months and as we all know Alonso can be a hard racer - he went wheel to wheel with Schumi at Hungary and dared to pass him on the outside into 130R in 2005.

Massa had the balls to commit the inside and Alonso was right to back off slightly.

Kinda reminds me of Senna and Mansell when they were fighting over who had the biggest balls. (They were about the same size because none of them wanted to lift and so they crashed into each other a few times :D )

[AJP]

It's called racing!

Massa had the balls to commit the inside and Alonso was right to back off slightly.I don't think Alonso backed off at all...he was pushed off...I want to see more of this...it is exciting.

[rlenis]

pushed off????? he overshot the corner because Massa was there and as a result had to steer left lost control and off the track..
look at this.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3523/alonsomassanj1.jpg

[AJP]

pushed off????? he overshot the corner because Massa was there and as a result had to steer left lost control and off the track..
look at this.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3523/alonsomassanj1.jpgHe didnt overshoot the corner at all...he hoped that Massa would yield, but he didn't. they made contact and Massa went straight for the Apex of turn two. Alonso was pushed to the kurb from the contact and thats it...of course he steared left after that as Massa beat him in the race for turn two and Alonso had no where to go but into the gravel.

[Valve Bounce]

:up:

It's called racing!

Massa's balls have grown bigger over the past 6 months and as we all know Alonso can be a hard racer - he went wheel to wheel with Schumi at Hungary and dared to pass him on the outside into 130R in 2005.

Massa had the balls to commit the inside and Alonso was right to back off slightly.

Kinda reminds me of Senna and Mansell when they were fighting over who had the biggest balls. (They were about the same size because none of them wanted to lift and so they crashed into each other a few times :D )

I don't want to compare the size of balls on this one racing incident as it can be argued either way.
But I tell you what, that Massa sure was pumped up, and he was floating on adrenelin from the moment the race finished. His whole demeanor on the podium was symptomatic of someone infinitely happy, ecstatic and delirious with his fine effort. I havn't seen Valentino as pumped up as Massa.
Great for F1!! :up:

[ioan]

pushed off????? he overshot the corner because Massa was there and as a result had to steer left lost control and off the track..
look at this.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3523/alonsomassanj1.jpg

FA tried to push Felipe of the ideal line so that he can take the perfect line through Turn 2. But as we can see Felipe was already on the curb and thus they touched.
Looking at the picture it's clear that if Felipe would have tried to avoid contact he should have went all over that curb and maybe even more.

Alonso claiming that it was dangerous driving from Felipe is just sour grapes, something like those lights that fell on his car during the night in Bahrain.

[wmcot]

arrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh !!!! why why why must every little incident be so negativly analyzed. why cant people see the plain truth behind this specific move. first corner, big pressure and two guys wanting to win. this was simple hard racing. hats off to both ( both of whom im not at all fans of) for keeping thier feet in and showing some good ballsey driving.

Because the fans of the driver who lost out will always call it cheating (or something similar) and the other driver's fans will call it a great move. It has nothing to do with unbiased facts!

(Remember that F1, like basketball, is a non-contact sport!) :)

[ioan]

We are just discussing a move and freely expressing our views on it.
It was for sure a good scrap and a racing incident that ended without a crash. This however doesn't mean that it shouldn't be talked about some of it's aspects in a critical manner.

[Roamy]

great stuff loook at the pictures this is RACING Brilliant just what we need
send this picture to Jenson Button!!!!

[Scuderia ferrari]

I woudn't say it was really a massive shunt, just a breif tap, Alonso went off, came back on but everyone avoided him. That was it. Really not cause for alarm.

[andreag]

FA tried to push Felipe of the ideal line so that he can take the perfect line through Turn 2. But as we can see Felipe was already on the curb and thus they touched.
Looking at the picture it's clear that if Felipe would have tried to avoid contact he should have went all over that curb and maybe even more.

Alonso claiming that it was dangerous driving from Felipe is just sour grapes, something like those lights that fell on his car during the night in Bahrain.
You should take a look at the entire sequence; after this photo is Massa who push Alonso to the left further the right trajectory (clearly visible on the tarmac).

http://www.profacil.net/F1/Sequence.jpg

Is a race incident, of course; and no one made an illegal move. I agree this is racing, and this fights were common some years ago. Unfotunately nowadays cars have so many winglets and deflectors, that a touch damge the car (McLaren calculated Fernando lost .5 secs per lap due to the touch).

But I prefer drivers to risk this way, than being too conservative.

[rlenis]

unfortunately most drivers are too conservative. bring back Montoya..

[race aficionado]

unfortunately most drivers are too conservative. bring back Montoya..

He's too busy having fun banging non-carbon fibre cars every weekend. :p

any way . . . back to this good ol' balsy first corner thread.


:s mokin:

[Roamy]

andrdag very good pictures - thanks
Massa is looking pretty guilty in these pictures when the first thought is to blame alonso. but real good moves. massa keeps that wheel in the sidepod where he would have more leverage. plus if you brake the other guy will take a little trip and visa versa. but if you brake you will probably rip up suspension. Good stuff

[aryan]

http://www.profacil.net/F1/Sequence.jpg



Nice pictures andreag, I didn't see the incident like this until your pictures came up.

Alonso had to make the move, he couldn't stand following the Ferrari, and FM acted as any true racer would have acted (phew...am I calling Massa a good racer now? :D ) maybe he was a bit aggressive but that's what we expect in racing.

This is racing at its finest... pity we don't get more of it in the remaining 66 laps.

[Big Ben]

Alonso almost caused a massive shunt after his first corner off in in spain yesterday. I`m surprised more was not made of this as he almost took off his team-mate Hamilton, raikkonen, and the BMW`s when re-joining the track. This really was extremely dangerous driving, and reflected a sign of Alonso`s desperation at the fact that he has a team-mate giving him all he can handle, and then some.

hilarious... He almost killed 4 drivers... but fortunately he's an excellent driver and managed to get back on track... keep a good position and limit the damages...

[Valve Bounce]

Are we still flogging that dead chestnut? :rolleyes:

[leopard]

I like caption#3: FM goes back to the path after sending FA out (innocently) :D :D

[wmcot]

While pictures don't lie, sometimes the captions are misleading. Watch the race again on your DVD/VCR/Tivo and you will see that Massa is trying to stick to the correct racing line through the turns. I said trying, because it's hard to do with a car off-line pushing against you. It was an ambitious move by Alonso and a good defense by Massa - nothing more. Sort of like high speed bullfight! :)

[Valve Bounce]

Can anyone rewind to Melbourne, and realise that ant had a far worse coming together with Sutil? Can we place that, as accidents go, as dangerous situations go, into perspective. Please? :rolleyes;

For God sake!! get over the Alonso-Massa waltz, nobody got hurt. If you want to be stupid, then find some other accidents in F1 where people got hurt or even died. get a grip!!

OK, Lorenzo Bandini died of horrific burns at Monza, start with that, then go into JV's accident in Oz, then that horrible start at Spa some years ago. Just don't make a mountain out of a pimple.

[leopard]

While pictures don't lie, sometimes the captions are misleading. Watch the race again on your DVD/VCR/Tivo and you will see that Massa is trying to stick to the correct racing line through the turns. I said trying, because it's hard to do with a car off-line pushing against you. It was an ambitious move by Alonso and a good defense by Massa - nothing more. Sort of like high speed bullfight! :)
The Andreag's pics are actually said that thing also.

The remaining track is still wide, actually Alonso can make the smoother overtaking without having to distract racing line of Massa. Home crowd racing might have motivated Alonso driving that way, understandable, and the way Massa's defending his position deserves praise. The way of Alonso went back to the track was crack too.
They were trying to do their job at best.
What's amazing me the nose of Massa's car was safe and sound, thought it's broken and pitting in soon.

[ArrowsFA1]

I guess we can't have things both ways. Either we want the racers to race, in which case these kind of incidents are likely to happen, or we want a pit-stop-passing parade.

[Flat.tyres]

f1 is a non contact sport but there will always be contact. some of the best races are where drivers are wheel to wheel, swapping a bit of paint and dicing through corners.

there was nothing wrong with this move. it wasnt dirty, it was racing and should be encouraged. anyone that things this was an issue needs to take up another sport like bowles.

[ioan]

You should take a look at the entire sequence; after this photo is Massa who push Alonso to the left further the right trajectory (clearly visible on the tarmac).

http://www.profacil.net/F1/Sequence.jpg

Is a race incident, of course; and no one made an illegal move. I agree this is racing, and this fights were common some years ago. Unfotunately nowadays cars have so many winglets and deflectors, that a touch damge the car (McLaren calculated Fernando lost .5 secs per lap due to the touch).

But I prefer drivers to risk this way, than being too conservative.

Nice pictures! :D
The only problem with your description is that the contact was at the moment of the 1st picture and not at the 2nd one.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

The fact that the different pictures are taken from different angles doesn't help. Besides, they're carrying quite some speed into that corner; this isn't Scalectrix.

[raphael123]

Would you cheat if you don't have too?
Let's wait and see what Alonso will do when he will be clearly losing the game. Until now all he had to do was to protect an early large point gap, and even than there were some glimpses of unfairness on the track last season.

As for MS, maybe you are a bit confusing cheating with wild and reckless driving. :p :

Ummm no, I wouldn't cheat if I was about to lose :rolleyes: We're not all as unsporting as Michael Schumacher. So far, Alonso hasn't shown any sign that he would cheat, in F1 and before his F1 career. We all know what Schumacher did to Hakkinen even before he was in F1. That was a bloody disgrace! In fairness to Schumacher, when he had the most dominant car, and a team-mate with his hands tied back, he didn't revert to his cheating ways, as you say, because he didn't need to. It's a shame that, as soon as he did need to cheat, he did so at the first opportunity (Monaco) - as if he hadn't done that, his 'moves' back in the 90's would have been seen as his early ambition, but he proved that right through his career, he would cheat if he had to.

It's a shame, a man of his ability had to revert to such unsporting tactics, otherwise I think everyone would be looking at him as the greatest in the sport - ever!

What unfairness on track last season?

[raphael123]

The overriding impression i have of his early days were his amazing car control and ability to do things that other drivers wouldnt think of. im not denying that there were accusations of cheating with electronics and tyres etc but ultimatly they werent proved (cough) by the FIA. thats all history now. there was also the 2 rather unfortunate incidents at the end of the season but he was pulled up on one.

They weren't proved due to a loophole which Benettons exploited.

What 2 incidents last year?



what you have to accept though was his out n out ability to drive the car past the limit. he was bloody dangerous at the beginning but so exciting to watch. alonso is similar and i think lewis has the skill but ultimatly better natural car control. of all the drivers out there, the only 2 that were on a par with schumacher are those 2.

Spot on. I agree 100%. That's what makes it such a shame, that Schumacher, undoubtedly one of the greatest most talented drivers the sport has had, had to revert to such unsporting ways to ensure dominance. It will, unfortunately for him, his fans, and F1 in general, taint what he has achieved. For sure, he's broken all the records there is too have - but how he went about doing it wasn't what you could say 'sporting'.

Shame, but true.

[ArrowsFA1]

As Flat.tyres has already said "thats all history now".

[raphael123]

unfortunately most drivers are too conservative. bring back Montoya..

:up:

Though not in McLaren, he became boring there. I hope this doesn't disuade Alonso from trying these moves. I think the only race we saw Montoya in the McLaren colours being his true racey self was Oz last year.

But yes, the day Montoya joined F1 was like a breath of fresh air!!

[wmcot]

Ummm no, I wouldn't cheat if I was about to lose :rolleyes: We're not all as unsporting as Michael Schumacher. So far, Alonso hasn't shown any sign that he would cheat, in F1 and before his F1 career. We all know what Schumacher did to Hakkinen even before he was in F1. That was a bloody disgrace! In fairness to Schumacher, when he had the most dominant car, and a team-mate with his hands tied back, he didn't revert to his cheating ways, as you say, because he didn't need to. It's a shame that, as soon as he did need to cheat, he did so at the first opportunity (Monaco) - as if he hadn't done that, his 'moves' back in the 90's would have been seen as his early ambition, but he proved that right through his career, he would cheat if he had to.

It's a shame, a man of his ability had to revert to such unsporting tactics, otherwise I think everyone would be looking at him as the greatest in the sport - ever!

What unfairness on track last season?

Can we stick to this topic, please? Some people still feel the need to bring out the Schumi-bashing (deserved or not) over and over again. Let's talk about this season.

[raphael123]

Can we stick to this topic, please? Some people still feel the need to bring out the Schumi-bashing (deserved or not) over and over again. Let's talk about this season.

My apologies Mr Wmcot :up: :)

[Valve Bounce]

As Flat.tyres has already said "thats all history now".

Agreed! The guy has retired and there's nothing to be gained by flogging a dead horse.

[leopard]

I can't remember well, I think this was the first case of Alonso overtaking someone that hard, he is one of those driving the car smoothly.

There were some reasonable reasons why did he drive like that:
- Racing in front of own home crowd
- He needs convince McLaren that he isn't less quality driver than a rookie Hamilton. Hamilton is not driver that makes reigning champion looks good.
- Realizing his car can't pass Ferrari by elsewhere unless making good start.

He can't help driving that way :D

[Flat.tyres]

What 2 incidents last year

sorry, i know we are back on subject but i need to clarify this point.

i was refering to the 2 incidents involving jacques and hill.

back to topic :)

[GRAVETT]

i may have been slightly too quick to condemn you all for over analyzing this incident. i have raised a topic in the btcc forum about the over use of contact, i should have known better, the majority of people who post there seem to love the dangerous driving and thrive on seeing accidents. i am happy to say that here i see genuine race fans that dont get a kick out of seeing cas flying off the road after being hit on purpose by thier competitors.

[Valve Bounce]

i may have been slightly too quick to condemn you all for over analyzing this incident. i have raised a topic in the btcc forum about the over use of contact, i should have known better, the majority of people who post there seem to love the dangerous driving and thrive on seeing accidents. i am happy to say that here i see genuine race fans that dont get a kick out of seeing cas flying off the road after being hit on purpose by thier competitors.

Have you ever watched Aussi V8's? :eek:

[raphael123]

See how the conversation has dried up due to restrictions of what we can and can't discuss on a particular topic - I think a bit of wheel to wheel racing is awesome, as long as its fair :)

[ArrowsFA1]

See how the conversation has dried up due to restrictions of what we can and can't discuss on a particular topic...
Maybe the "conversation has dried up" because everything that can be said about this racing incident has been said. If anyone needs to rake over the coals of history just to keep it going then that is clearly the case.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe the "conversation has dried up" because everything that can be said about this racing incident has been said. If anyone needs to rake over the coals of history just to keep it going then that is clearly the case.

What incident :confused:

[raphael123]

What incident

Ummm....Alonso's 'reckless' manoeuvre :rolleyes: hence the name of the topic :laugh:
I don't think past f1 incidents were bought up just to keep the discussion going...I think it came about naturally, as it's all related, and it's what people were thinking at the time. I always thought it was all part of a 'discussion'. However I respect the ways things are done here, and I'm adjusting to it :) :up: Keep up the good work mods :)

[Racehound]

The wort part of it was when FA regained the track, not the scrap with Felipe.
i cant see any point to this comment, or even proper spelling!!!!!!

[Valve Bounce]

Then why bother? there was no incident. The two were racing.

[pino]

i cant see any point to this comment, or even proper spelling!!!!!!

Loose that attitude dear friend or you won't last much in here.

Anyway that "incident" is history now, so there's no need to continue this. Thread closed !