WRC 2021 • Silly season

[Andre Oliveira]

Kubica in?
Lappi and Suninen stays?
Mikkelsen?
More WRC privateers?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://i.ibb.co/hY7T62D/CE9-EA5-A7-2-CB9-4370-BA46-68-F2-D45-BFEAC.jpg

[skarderud]

It depends on the budget how good the fiesta is next year, and wich drivers they get is probably down to how good the fiesta is compared to Toyota and Hyundai.
Citröen is maybe the same?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Alpine-110]

Suninen out Mikkelsen in.

All private drivers in Alpine for some real challenge and show!

[T16]

Hope someone else can pay for a Ford seat over shitbox Greensmith.
Kubica though - bring it on.

[the sniper]

Suninen out Mikkelsen in.

All private drivers in Alpine for some real challenge and show!

That'd be a great idea! Alpine funding paid drives in something similar to the BMW M1 Procar Championship of late seventies that supported F1, but with 5 or 6 guys out of a paid drive in the WRC, plus whatever privateers want to pay to have a go at them. Imagine an Alpine nations cup, 6 rounds, with Meeke, Camilli, Abbring, Latvala, Kubica, Suninen/Lappi/Mikkelsen...

[Alpine-110]

That'd be a great idea! Alpine funding paid drives in something similar to the BMW M1 Procar Championship of late seventies that supported F1, but with 5 or 6 guys out of a paid drive in the WRC, plus whatever privateers want to pay to have a go at them. Imagine an Alpine nations cup, 6 rounds, with Meeke, Camilli, Abbring, Latvala, Kubica, Suninen/Lappi/Mikkelsen...

I think nations cup is a good idea, also they could do a Legends cup in Alpines with Latvala, Loeb, Hirvonen, Gronholm, Solberg Brothers, Loix, ++. Sponsors will love this.

[mknight]

Imo nothing will change at MSport.
All 3 current drivers are in one way or another bringing money in. Though maybe Lappi's ex-Citroen funding will stop at end of this year?

For outside "young" drivers I am not sure how attractive it is to drive at MSport with what now seems like the clearly slowest of the 3 cars (both due to lack of testing and development). Maybe a better idea to try to get a some drives with others (see Loubet and Veiby recently).
For Mikkelsen specifically it might be better to do a Rally2 season with some manu paying it and wait for 2022 (he is still young agewise).

An interesting joker here is the new 2022 rules. MSport has a history of having best allround car the first years after new rules come out (2017 rules, 1.6l rules with Fiesta, but also 2006 Focus). There are also clear historical examples of how this kickstarted the career of multiple drivers that were struggling until then (Tanak, Neuville, Hirvonen) So getting a better chance of starting at MSport in 2022 might be an extra reason to be interested in MSport.

[AnttiL]

As for M-Sport's perspective, they should get some good driver to develop the 2022 car? Or who did they use to make the great 2017 car? Tänak? At least Eric Camilli did a lot of testing.

[TypeR]

Hope someone else can pay for a Ford seat over shitbox Greensmith.
Kubica though - bring it on.
Is Gus taking away your seat? Ffs..
Gus is paying for his seat/car.

And that Estonian guy Gross.. driving w last spec Fiesta and taking away everybodies seat..

[T16]

Is Gus taking away your seat? Ffs..
Gus is paying for his seat/car.

And that Estonian guy Gross.. driving w last spec Fiesta and taking away everybodies seat..

I mean, I'd like to see a decent privateer in the third car ideally. Usually I don't mind, but Greensmith has no business in one.

[Andre Oliveira]

Kubica / Kajetanowicz ???

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2020/11/rumours-kubica-and-kajetanowiz-to-form-a-wrc-team-next-year/?fbclid=IwAR2pXRdJYmSh2qMPwXK9NzstvfmyX7eislhS8Sed 0FOurHU9VnCd_9jsTmY

[pantealex]

Jouhki is Suninen´s manager, so he will drive next year, most probably MSport car.

[pantealex]

As a fact we know that TGR will continue with Evans, Ogier and Rovanperä + Katsuta

We don´t know are they renting for others than "Legends" or JML

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kubica / Kajetanowicz ???

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2020/11/rumours-kubica-and-kajetanowiz-to-form-a-wrc-team-next-year/?fbclid=IwAR2pXRdJYmSh2qMPwXK9NzstvfmyX7eislhS8Sed 0FOurHU9VnCd_9jsTmY

Nice idea.

It'd be better if they could use M-Sport Poland though.

[seb_sh]

What's with all the Greensmith hate? He's a rookie with a sponsor paying for that drive, we'd have one less car if he wasn't there.

I suppose Toyota is all set to stay as is. At Hyundai I think only Neuville and Tanak are set, will the third car be shared by Sordo and Breen?

At MSport realistically it will be a cost/benefit type of deal. I'd be curious to see Mikkelsen in the Ford.

[AnttiL]

I mean, I'd like to see a decent privateer in the third car ideally. Usually I don't mind, but Greensmith has no business in one.

The thing is...if Gus didn't drive this season, it would be just two M-Sport cars. If they had had a third car, for, let's say, Mikkelsen, Gus would have just been in the fourth car. He doesn't take away anyone's seat. If anything, helps keeping the team in the business.

But I agree it's frustrating to see him being so slow from year to another, and still believing(?) to be a top driver some day.

[AnttiL]

. I'd be curious to see Mikkelsen in the Ford.

I think he already said he's looking more at a WRC2 campaign for 2021.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The thing is...if Gus didn't drive this season, it would be just two M-Sport cars. If they had had a third car, for, let's say, Mikkelsen, Gus would have just been in the fourth car. He doesn't take away anyone's seat. If anything, helps keeping the team in the business.

But I agree it's frustrating to see him being so slow from year to another, and still believing(?) to be a top driver some day.

That's correct - he is paying his way and helping to keep M-Sport in the WRC.

But as for being 'so slow from year to another' - he hasnt been that slow at times and he is still learning with no testing either.

[T16]

What's with all the Greensmith hate? He's a rookie with a sponsor paying for that drive, we'd have one less car if he wasn't there.

I suppose Toyota is all set to stay as is. At Hyundai I think only Neuville and Tanak are set, will the third car be shared by Sordo and Breen?

At MSport realistically it will be a cost/benefit type of deal. I'd be curious to see Mikkelsen in the Ford.

Personally, I just think he's a bit too 'rock star' with his approach, yet he's not got the talent to back it up. What was it he said about Rovanpera in Monte Carlo... "Kalle who?". I just don't think he's got it, but acts like he has.

[AnttiL]

But as for being 'so slow from year to another' - he hasnt been that slow at times

examples, please

[AnttiL]

Greensmith's pace in 2020

Monte: Once 5th on a stage, being faster than Rovanperä, Suninen and Loeb; faster than Suninen on another stage, otherwise slowest WRC.
Mexico: Slowest WRC on all desert stages except once faster than Rovanperä (don't remember if Rovanperä had an issue here)
Estonia: Mostly slowest WRC or among the slowest ones, often slower than total newbie Loubet! Only once faster than Lappi (the second time Lappi spun)
Turkey: Mostly slowest WRC or among the slowest ones, only once faster than Lappi who was on the wrong settings.
Sardegna: Mostly slowest WRC or among the slowest ones, managed to be faster than Evans and Ogier on day1 when they were cleaning the road.

I think his biggest achievement was managing through the Cetibeli stage in Turkey where almost everyone had a puncture. Meanwhile, a very embarrassing crash in Monte and some spins in Estonia as well as an off on the shakedown in Turkey.

Lappi, Suninen and Rovanperä took only 1-2 events in the WRC car to win their first stage and show rally winning pace. Greensmith has been "learning" for already 1,5 years. He wasn't that impressive in WRC2 either, only won two events (Monte and Turkey 2019). I don't expect him to ever get faster than this.

[pantealex]

Remember when KIMI was driving ?

Nearly everyone here said that he doesn´t belong to WRC...

Now people are understanding that this sport needs all possible drivers

Those "rich" ones aren´t taking any places off from young talents.

btw. I think Fergus is slow, MSport should have real 3rd driver. Same system for Fergus/Katsuta/Loubet = 4/5th car.

[AnttiL]

Kimi, Kubica and Rossi etc have the potential to cross over fans from other motorsports, thus they are important and welcome

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Greensmith clearly has talent and isnt just driving around. He also has big mitigation in that he hasnt done full seasons to learn all the events, he has a car that isnt the fastest (unlike the other rookies) and the team hasnt been able to gve him any testing this year either.

And look at the years it took Tanak and Evans to be fully-competitive even with several full seasons in WRC.

[T16]

Greensmith clearly has talent and isnt just driving around. He also has big mitigation in that he hasnt done full seasons to learn all the events, he has a car that isnt the fastest (unlike the other rookies) and the team hasnt been able to gve him any testing this year either.

And look at the years it took Tanak and Evans to be fully-competitive even with several full seasons in WRC.

Hell’s bells!!! Are you seriously comparing Tanak and Evans to Greensmith?

If you think Greensmith will get anywhere near the same ball park as those two, you’re well off the mark.

You don’t have to back everyone in a Ford Eddie.

[AnttiL]

And look at the years it took Tanak and Evans to be fully-competitive even with several full seasons in WRC.

Let's look!

Tänak's first WRC car event was Wales 2011. On SS12 he was 3rd fastest, beating the likes of Ogier, Østberg, Sordo, Meeke and Novikov. In his third WRC start, Sweden 2012, he won a stage.

Elfyn also was 2nd and 4th on stages in Monte 2014, his second WRC start.

These are already better than Greensmith has done in his eight starts.

It's true that it takes years to become a regular podium finisher or winner, and not all get there ever. But any driver to become should be able to show even occasional bursts of speed earlier on. Even Lefebvre won a few stages!

To be fair, I have the same feeling about Katsuta, I doubt he will progress much from the current level, even with this much practice.

[EstWRC]

and Tänaks debut was on Dmacks ;)

Gus will get maybe some podiums with luck or when circumstances go on his way but on pure speed i dont see him gettin one, at least not at the moment.

Doesnt seem very talented guy, same with Loubet for me.

The next big things and fast guys are Solberg and Rovanpera, Gryazin maybe too, he has been bit disappointing this year

[AnttiL]

and Tänaks debut was on Dmacks ;)

Gus will get maybe some podiums with luck or when circumstances go on his way but on pure speed i dont see him gettin one, at least not at the moment.

Doesnt seem very talented guy, same with Loubet for me.

The next big things and fast guys are Solberg and Rovanpera, Gryazin maybe too, he has been bit disappointing this year

I don’t think Gryazin even will make that level, this season has been hugely disappointing.

[er88]

I think he already said he's looking more at a WRC2 campaign for 2021.Mikkelsen should use some of his budget to get in at Msport.

Hyundai is blocked for him, and Toyota have overlooked him even when his stock was at his highest which was years ago....
They'll need a 3rd driver to replace Ogier in 2022, but Evans and Kalle will be their two main drivers and the Japanese could bring JML back in for a split season with someone like Oliver Solberg.

Mikkelsen should bring money for a drive in a rally 1 car, even if it's just for 6 events. Prove he can beat Lappi and Suninen, and he will then not only get a look in at Msport for 2022, but he could get a chance to test and develop the new 2022 car. And in 22, Msport might be the place to be. They seem to always start well with a new car, before being caught and surpassed in the development a few years down the line.

[pantealex]

Mikkelsen should bring money for a drive in a rally 1 car, even if it's just for 6 events.

Yes, when use of Rally1 starts at 2022

2021 he should drive Rally2 and keep in touch with events.

[EstWRC]

I don’t think Gryazin even will make that level, this season has been hugely disappointing.

yeah not Solberg and Rovanpera level but i still think he could be fast, but yeah this year has been a step back.

[mknight]

Ref. Mikkelsen in MSport.
While what er88 wrote is an option I am not 100% convinced it's the best idea.
The most likely outcome with that car is that he would be faster than Lappi and Suninen but clearly slower than all factory Toyotas and Hyundais and sometimes even slower than their "customer" cars (see Katsuta in Estonia this year).
Furthermore sometimes the internal competition would be decided by road position ( see Suninen vs Lappi in Mexico this year).

If it goes like this will he be more likely to be picked than the fastest "new" Rally2 drivers?

The other option is to drive in Rally2 against those new drivers and prove that he is faster than them. There the risk is that he will be just a little faster than them so the "younger" drivers get picked due to more "potential".

No easy call. His best chance would definitely be with a new manu as a safe pick to perform on all rallies. But doesn't look like any new manus are coming.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Let's look!

Tänak's first WRC car event was Wales 2011. On SS12 he was 3rd fastest, beating the likes of Ogier, Østberg, Sordo, Meeke and Novikov. In his third WRC start, Sweden 2012, he won a stage.

Elfyn also was 2nd and 4th on stages in Monte 2014, his second WRC start.

These are already better than Greensmith has done in his eight starts.

It's true that it takes years to become a regular podium finisher or winner, and not all get there ever. But any driver to become should be able to show even occasional bursts of speed earlier on. Even Lefebvre won a few stages!

To be fair, I have the same feeling about Katsuta, I doubt he will progress much from the current level, even with this much practice.

Rich Millener:

'We’ve always said even if you went into a WRC car it’s probably a three-to-four-year process once you step into that car before you’re actually competitive at the top end. You look at somebody like Kalle who’s been doing a huge amount of testing, he’s putting in some incredible times and he probably could have won a rally this year at some point but there are small mistakes which comes with just having more and more and more time and experience in the car and not only the car but understanding the stages that you’re in and not making any mistakes.
The top guys are on the top level in the world so to get to that point is not easy.'

[AnttiL]

Like I said, Kalle is in the level where he can show rally winning pace from time to time but not still consistent enough to win rallies. Tänak and Evans were there also quite quickly after getting into WRC. Greensmith is still far from that level.

[T16]

Rich Millener:

'We’ve always said even if you went into a WRC car it’s probably a three-to-four-year process once you step into that car before you’re actually competitive at the top end. You look at somebody like Kalle who’s been doing a huge amount of testing, he’s putting in some incredible times and he probably could have won a rally this year at some point but there are small mistakes which comes with just having more and more and more time and experience in the car and not only the car but understanding the stages that you’re in and not making any mistakes.
The top guys are on the top level in the world so to get to that point is not easy.'

So the team manager at M-Sport defends the clearly inadequate (at this level) driving of a man who pays the team a shit load of cash in exchange for one of their cars. Surprise surprise.

[wyler]

So the team manager at M-Sport defends the clearly inadequate (at this level) driving of a man who pays the team a shit load of cash in exchange for one of their cars. Surprise surprise.

Come on, that's too harsh. I'm sure they really think there's some more in greensmith to check out. And he showed some rare glimpse. I remember some good time in Germany and a good afternoon loop in Monte this year. Not nearly enough for sure, i think definitely isn't there yet, but maybe he can improve his pace to a good second-tier driver. I'd give him more time.
And btw, some style of sunglasses in wrc can't harm! : )

[AnttiL]

I remember some good time in Germany and a good afternoon loop in Monte this year.

Monte I already checked out, only one or two stages where he wasn't the slowest WRC and also an embarrassing crash.

Germany 2019 however went better, he was constantly closer to the main pack and much faster than Katsuta, also being able to beat the likes of Lappi and Mikkelsen a couple of times when they were struggling with their cars, and also being faster than Meeke and Latvala on one short stage. But he also crashed there.

[T16]

Come on, that's too harsh. I'm sure they really think there's some more in greensmith to check out. And he showed some rare glimpse. I remember some good time in Germany and a good afternoon loop in Monte this year. Not nearly enough for sure, i think definitely isn't there yet, but maybe he can improve his pace to a good second-tier driver. I'd give him more time.
And btw, some style of sunglasses in wrc can't harm! : )

He can take as he wants (or as long as the funds allow) to get up to speed. He’s a pay driver, after all.
I’m just convinced he’s not going to do anything at all.
M-sport will play whatever tune needs playing to keep him in the car.... it’s all just pound notes to them.

[TypeR]

He can take as he wants (or as long as the funds allow) to get up to speed. He’s a pay driver, after all.
I’m just convinced he’s not going to do anything at all.
M-sport will play whatever tune needs playing to keep him in the car.... it’s all just pound notes to them.
Did Gus take your gf/wife or why are u so btthurt about him in many threads.. :D

[wyler]

Monte I already checked out, only one or two stages where he wasn't the slowest WRC and also an embarrassing crash.

Germany 2019 however went better, he was constantly closer to the main pack and much faster than Katsuta, also being able to beat the likes of Lappi and Mikkelsen a couple of times when they were struggling with their cars, and also being faster than Meeke and Latvala on one short stage. But he also crashed there.

Yes, like I said, not nearly enough, but some glimpse. germany was surprising. There's people saying completely inadequate or will never prove anything, I say to wait some more time to show more potential, also considering is driving a fiesta. developing faster than katsuta would already be a goodt point, considering the effort on the Japanese! Crashes are bad, but not so relevant at this career point.

[wyler]

He can take as he wants (or as long as the funds allow) to get up to speed. He’s a pay driver, after all.
I’m just convinced he’s not going to do anything at all.
M-sport will play whatever tune needs playing to keep him in the car... it’s all just pound notes to them.


maybe, or maybe not. just saying I would accord him some more time, as m-sport say. maybe they just want his money, maybe they know their job. he can take the time he wants, but compared to actual competitors (loubet, katsuta) he spent less time in the car and results are not so far away. Compared to other newcomers (tidemand) he's shown probably more, let's see veiby what will show in Monza.

[Jarek Z]

I don’t think Gryazin even will make that level, this season has been hugely disappointing.

You are probably right, but it's worth mentioning that after just 2 years in WRC Gryazin is already on the same level as Veiby after 6 years :)
https://www.wrc.com/en/results-standings/championship-standings/wrc2/

[AnttiL]

Yes, like I said, not nearly enough, but some glimpse. germany was surprising. There's people saying completely inadequate or will never prove anything, I say to wait some more time to show more potential, also considering is driving a fiesta. developing faster than katsuta would already be a goodt point, considering the effort on the Japanese! Crashes are bad, but not so relevant at this career point.

I think it's actually sad that in Germany 2019 Greensmith was clearly faster than Katsuta, but this year they've been more level, and Katsuta has shown glimpses of speed (but also crashed heavily)

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11664131

Marcus Grönholm (manager of Huttunen) believes Huttunen will have at least one start in a WRC car in 2021. They have a positive signal from Adamo. But Huttunen doesn't know himself where he drives next year.

[wyler]

I think it's actually sad that in Germany 2019 Greensmith was clearly faster than Katsuta, but this year they've been more level, and Katsuta has shown glimpses of speed (but also crashed heavily)

Yeah I have to agree.
also, we should know the real gap of fiestas, especially this year with no development from m-sport.

[mknight]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11664131

Marcus Grönholm (manager of Huttunen) believes Huttunen will have at least one start in a WRC car in 2021. They have a positive signal from Adamo. But Huttunen doesn't know himself where he drives next year.

Unlike Veiby he actually deserves it based on speed. But he deserved it already at least in mid-2019.

[AnttiL]

Unlike Veiby he actually deserves it based on speed. But he deserved it already at least in mid-2019.

With the big Even stickers on the Veiby car, I'm not believing what he says on the interview about getting the ride for free.

[mknight]

With the big Even stickers on the Veiby car, I'm not believing what he says on the interview about getting the ride for free.

Me neither, but there is still some difference between Veiby "paying" for the car and say someone like Al Quassimi paying for it. In Veiby's case there is some sporting component.

[seb_sh]

I doubt Greensmith will ever be a top driver and that's fine. The point is he's putting money into a team that needs such pay drivers to survive. It's not like in F1 with a limit of 2 cars, he is not taking anyone's seat away. Of course MSport will say nice things about someone who is bringing in money that helps them survive in the WRC. Maybe It's not bad to have a few "not WRC level" drivers, shows how good the good guys really are by comparison.

[Co-driven]

With the big Even stickers on the Veiby car, I'm not believing what he says on the interview about getting the ride for free.

Is there a chance that maybe Even/Veiby had paid for the full season with the R5 car and, with all the cancellations, this is the way they figured out to make things even?

I've heard that Pedro had paid M-Sport for the full WRC3 at start of the season and that's why he got Roma and Alba with the WRC+...

[the sniper]

Is there a chance that maybe Even/Veiby had paid for the full season with the R5 car and, with all the cancellations, this is the way they figured out to make things even?

I was thinking the same. That he literally didn't pay for the WRC, but the Veiby's have been such good customers, they've more than paid for the drive through different streams.

[SubaruNorway]

No, there were already talks of doing one or two events earlier this year. The two retirements in WRC2 made them skip Monza for the WRC instead.

[AnttiL]

Lappi has said to Finnish media that he is not confident for having a seat next year at M-Sport...

The way I interpret it, there's no financial backing available. There could have been some Citroen money for this year, but not anymore for next year...

[AnttiL]

How long will we see Katsuta in the series if he doesn't improve? He needs to both reduce crashing but also increase the pace. Difficult to see him proceeding to winning level, sadly.

[mknight]

Lappi has said to Finnish media that he is not confident for having a seat next year at M-Sport...

The way I interpret it, there's no financial backing available. There could have been some Citroen money for this year, but not anymore for next year...

I guess it probably confirms what was rumored before in one way or another. That Citroen kept paying him something this year, since he had 2 year contract when they quit.
I'd say he was clearly better than Suninen, especially considering Suninen has been in that car for 3 years. Hard to say anything else when MSport are only competition to themselves.

Knowing Malcolm's way of prioritizing I think it's entirely possible he will drop him fom someone like Formaux(drives for free and has future contract prospects where Wilson can get his share) or Greensmith (brings money). Suninen somehow fits both categories still imo. Basically, looking like something of a 2016 season re-run at MSport.



How long will we see Katsuta in the series if he doesn't improve? He needs to both reduce crashing but also increase the pace. Difficult to see him proceeding to winning level, sadly.

I actually think he was ok-ish this year, so he will stay whole next year at minimum.

[denkimi]

How long will we see Katsuta in the series if he doesn't improve? He needs to both reduce crashing but also increase the pace. Difficult to see him proceeding to winning level, sadly.
For as long as the toyota bosses want a japanese driver in their car.

Nobody expects him to win anything, he's just there because of his nationality.

[mknight]

For as long as the toyota bosses want a japanese driver in their car.

Nobody expects him to win anything, he's just there because of his nationality.

There are still limits. Arai senior wasn't driving for Subaru in WRC forever either.

[Andre Oliveira]

So Ford should be Suninen, Fourmaux and Greensmith in 2021?

[pantealex]

So Ford should be Suninen, Fourmaux and Greensmith in 2021?

I hope not.

[mknight]

That's what I would call "worst case" performance wise. Money-wise it might be the preferred option.

[steve.mandzij]

So Ford should be Suninen, Fourmaux and Greensmith in 2021?Couldn't Mikkelsen replace Lappi and bring funding + pace? Yeah, he's got no links to M-Sport that I know of, but it'd be a good signing ahead of 2022.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lets be honest - MSport cant compete with the two factory teams without an Ogier. They need to be realistic and keep money coming in to even stay in the WRC.

Fourmaux looks a great prospect and if he's got some backing too it would make sense.

Greensmith just pays his way and isnt taking anyones seat.

[Duvel]

So ho has got a chanse for wrc drive next year

At Toyota, Ogier, Evans, Rovanperra, Katsuta.
Hyundai, Neuville and Tanak, Breen and Sordo to share 3th car
Of those we can be shure i think.

Hyundai private (Lotos Orlen Poland team) Could also provide a chanse to drive some rounds for someone like Hutunnen, and Veiby.

M sport should try to get Mikkelsen asap, together whit Sunninen. Fourmaux and Greensmith in selected rounds.

Oliver Solberg may want to do some WRC start already to in 2021? And for Lappi it could be more difficult to find some drive.
lukyanuk maybe? Who else?

[Sulland]

Why do you want to keep Suninen over Lappi?

I feel Suninen can be blindingly fast on some stages, but seldom for a whole rally, and often break under pressure.
Hen need to learn to drive at 99%, and be able to choose some stages to go 102%.

Lappi was fast for a whole rally, and able to sprint for some stages.
Seems like the Ford does not suit him.

What development has gone into the Fiesta this year, that these two have been part of?

[masa90]

Why do you want to keep Suninen over Lappi?

I feel Suninen can be blindingly fast on some stages, but seldom for a whole rally, and often break under pressure.
Hen need to learn to drive at 99%, and be able to choose some stages to go 102%.

Lappi was fast for a whole rally, and able to sprint for some stages.
Seems like the Ford does not suit him.

What development has gone into the Fiesta this year, that these two have been part of?


Both will be good drivers if given chance to take that final step. But I guess Suninen will be there as he has Jouhki backing. Is Lappi still managed by Even?

If he is left out of the sport 21 it will be almost criminal. He is really good, but made a HUGE mistake leaving Toyota.

[Andre Oliveira]

Will Sordo continue?

And Latvala? Will comeback?

C3 WRC back?

[masa90]

So Ford should be Suninen, Fourmaux and Greensmith in 2021?

That sounds like a horrible lineup to be honest for a "factory team".

[AnttiL]

Will Sordo continue?

And Latvala? Will comeback?

C3 WRC back?

Yes

No

Probably not.

[Andre Oliveira]

That sounds like a horrible lineup to be honest for a "factory team".

No money, no party. Even the sponsorship is difficult.


Yes

No

Probably not.

Sordo with who at codriver side?

Btw, back to separate presentation of teams this year?

[mknight]

That sounds like a horrible lineup to be honest for a "factory team".

Similar to their 2016 lineup (with Tanak on DMACKS)

________

If given given free choice I would always pick Lappi over Suninen. But I think Suninen has more money behind him to pay for the seat.

[AndyRAC]

That sounds like a horrible lineup to be honest for a "factory team".

2005; Gardemeister, Kresta For the same team.

[mknight]

2005; Gardemeister, Kresta For the same team.

Yes and both times they used these years to develop championship winning cars for the year after. So there is a pattern.

You could also look at the fates of Garmeister, Kresta, Østberg and Camill, at leasts half of them did "decent" results during those seasons with cars that were likely very undeveloped...and all got rewarded by getting kicked after that year and never really getting another chance.

That's a real risk for Lappi/Suninen. Maybe better to run in Rally2 car after all.

[masa90]

Yes and both times they used these years to develop championship winning cars for the year after. So there is a pattern.

You could also look at the fates of Garmeister, Kresta, Østberg and Camill, at leasts half of them did "decent" results during those seasons with cars that were likely very undeveloped...and all got rewarded by getting kicked after that year and never really getting another chance.

That's a real risk for Lappi/Suninen. Maybe better to run in Rally2 car after all.


Gardemeister I think at the time was better than his replacement Hirvonen. But surely he had a bigger "upside" so in the end it was the right call from Malcolm to replace him. But I was pretty dissapointed as a young fanboy lol.

[Sulland]

Since Malcolm have had two finns for a peeiode.
In my mind it is time for more nordic.

My dreamteam would be:
Mads Østberg
Andreas Mikkelsen
Youngster: Oliver Solberg WRC2 + 3 rounds in WRC1.

Hardly realistic, but this time of year its the time for wishlists.
But I dont think I have that nice this year, for that to happen... :rolleyes:

[Andre Oliveira]

I would like the same team Teemu and Esapekka with Grus + Fourmaux at some rounds.

[pantealex]

I would like the same team Teemu and Esapekka with Grus + Fourmaux at some rounds.

You are FORD fan so:

Why you want Gus when there are faster options available ?

Østberg? Loeb? Latvala? Mikkelsen? Paddon? Lukyanuk? Breen? Sordo?

You don´t want fast FORD team?

[Andre Oliveira]

Cause i wrote the most plausible. Not the team i want ;)

Dream team by now: Sordo, Lappi and Oliver

[Portimao]

Isn't Greensmith paying for himself?

[pantealex]

Isn't Greensmith paying for himself?

Daddy yes.

[skarderud]

I don't understand Hyundai/Adamo's "need" for Neuville? He won't win WC ever, seems like a not very nice person (based on comments) do mistakes over and over again.
He has contract for 2021?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Neuville is one of the fastest drivers and for sure helped Hyundai get the manufacturer title last year (and if they get it this year, helped in that as well). I don't think he made many mistakes this year until this rally?

[EstWRC]

rally estonia too

[AnttiL]

rally estonia too

True, but with a lot of bad luck. Other drivers had similar incidents falling out of the ruts but didn't have the same consequences.

[mknight]

The list of Neuville's mistakes under pressure is getting quite long though, basically every single year since 2017 (4 years) he does (multiple) mistakes under pressure that ultimately cost him the title.
2017 - Germany, Spain
2018 - 2 mistakes in Australia
2019 - Turkey
2020 - 2 mistakes here (actually 3, counting the small one on Friday), plus Estonia

I am starting to agree with the people that call him "forever 2nd one"

For sure Adamo has no reason right now not to keep him, but he needs to make sure the cars fits both him and Tanak.
Speaking about Tanak he is still struggling a bit with it on tarmac (as witnessed by never being better than 3rd on stage here).

[AnttiL]

Just tell me who would be better than Neuville? Even Loeb struggled occasionally in the car

[steve.mandzij]

Just tell me who would be better than Neuville? Even Loeb struggled occasionally in the carHe's got the pressure of a full season off his shoulders, but Sordo has been the most consistent of the Hyundai drivers this year.

[AnttiL]

He's got the pressure of a full season off his shoulders, but Sordo has been the most consistent of the Hyundai drivers this year.

Yeah, put him in Sweden, Wales, Estonia and Finland, or first on the road in Sardegna, and it’s not so consistent anymore.

[focus206]

I don't understand Hyundai/Adamo's "need" for Neuville? He won't win WC ever, seems like a not very nice person (based on comments) do mistakes over and over again.
He has contract for 2021?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
Of course he has a contract. If a driver has a mathematical chance of winning the drivers title by the last round or second to last, it means that he's providing a great amount of points for the manufacturers title. Something other drivers, like Mikkelsen, couldn't provide.

[mknight]

Just tell me who would be better than Neuville? Even Loeb struggled occasionally in the car

Right now nobody. Just saying they should focus on making Tanak comfortable so that he gets best shot at title as Neuville seems to have problem handling the pressure.

[Eli]

The list of Neuville's mistakes under pressure is getting quite long though, basically every single year since 2017 (4 years) he does (multiple) mistakes under pressure that ultimately cost him the title.
2017 - Germany, Spain
2018 - 2 mistakes in Australia
2019 - Turkey
2020 - 2 mistakes here (actually 3, counting the small one on Friday), plus Estonia

I am starting to agree with the people that call him "forever 2nd one"

For sure Adamo has no reason right now not to keep him, but he needs to make sure the cars fits both him and Tanak.
Speaking about Tanak he is still struggling a bit with it on tarmac (as witnessed by never being better than 3rd on stage here).

And that's without mentioning MC & Sweden back in 2017 when the i20 Coupe was the fastest car out of the box and he didn't have any pressure....it was on SSS if you recall...I'm sure Adamo will asses in the overall grand scheme of things once the rally is over tomorrow, still a long 15.5 hours to go until then...

[dimviii]

guys you are talking about Neuville,when it is verified from plenty of drivers,that i20 is a strange/difficult car to drive at least at some rallies.
We are still waiting for a driver to drive it faster with a less ratio of crashes,last 4-5 years.
i am not a Neuville fan,but we have to say the truth.

[steve.mandzij]

guys you are talking about Neuville,when it is verified from plenty of drivers,that i20 is a strange/difficult car to drive at least at some rallies.
We are still waiting for a driver to drive it faster with a less ratio of crashes,last 4-5 years.
i am not a Neuville fan,but we have to say the truth.Sure, that's true, but he was the one in charge of it's development and, usually, the only one who could really drive it fast.

[dimviii]

Sure, that's true, but he was the one in charge of it's development and, usually, the only one who could really drive it fast.

also we have to remember that he was competing against a car,that everybody who drove it was fast.
Not an easy scenario.
its not easy to win against Tanak and yaris,or against Ogier with yaris.
Yes he has done his mistakes,but i cant find a better one for hyundai till now.

[mknight]

As proven this year, Tanak can score more points with it even while being slower. (using stage wins as reference)

I repeat that I am not saying they should drop him, just don't threat him as n1.

[EstWRC]

also we have to remember that he was competing against a car,that everybody who drove it was fast.
Not an easy scenario.
its not easy to win against Tanak and yaris,or against Ogier with yaris.
Yes he has done his mistakes,but i cant find a better one for hyundai till now.

of course its hard to compete against them (same car or different) but it was possible for him to win the title past years but he lost it because of the reasons mentioned here.

but the talk about dropping him is of course BS....he is one of the best in the series

IMO his mistake/problem is that he has stayed into one team for too long

[Francis44]

Formoux need this seat asap, and with little or no funding M-Sport has to find a way to put him in a car already for 2021.
Im getting serious Sebastien vibes from him.
Not long ago nobody knew him or had heard of him. Right now he is competitive everywhere with what is surely not the most competitive Rally 2 car. He will have trouble being regular as most of the championship will be new to him but I believe he will be faster than anyone M-Sport has currently.

[mknight]

Not long ago nobody knew him or had heard of him. Right now he is competitive everywhere with what is surely not the most competitive Rally 2 car. He will have trouble being regular as most of the championship will be new to him but I believe he will be faster than anyone M-Sport has currently.

Is he? Looking at his times this year on gravel (Sardinia, Turkey, Estonia) he is usually around 3-4 in R5 in speed on gravel, this means slower than Tidemand for example.
How much does the car we don't know, but rough gravel should be one of the better surfaces for Fiesta imo.
Also depends how you define competitive I guess.

I really doubt he would be faster than Suninen next year (if we discount Lappi). Also note my comparison with Tidemand above, on gravel right now they have similar speed and Tidemand really struggled in WRC car.


The reason people now heard about Formaux is first and foremost that he is fast on wet tarmac, and wet tarmac rallies were one of the few being run lately (Monza, Canarias).... he is typically the only Fiesta mk2 and often one of the few on Michelin.

He might become good on other surfaces/rallies, but I just don't see any past results guaranteeing that at the moment.

[PLuto]

Formoux need this seat asap, and with little or no funding M-Sport has to find a way to put him in a car already for 2021.
Im getting serious Sebastien vibes from him.
Not long ago nobody knew him or had heard of him. Right now he is competitive everywhere with what is surely not the most competitive Rally 2 car. He will have trouble being regular as most of the championship will be new to him but I believe he will be faster than anyone M-Sport has currently.

I dont think he need to have WRC seat asap. For me it is still too early.

[mknight]

I see some rumors about Solberg to Toyota (quality = dubious)

Sounds wrong to me for multiple reasons...
- running 6 cars while developing new car in less than a year and with both Rovanpera and Katsuta learning?
- why learn this car when next one in 1 year will be quite different (powertrain and centerdif)
- he still needs rally experience on a lot of rallies, learning it with R5 is so much cheaper

Maybe the rumors means that he will be somehow connected/employed by Toyota, not that he will drive WRC with them next year. (Katsuta was "at Toyota" and drove Fiesta R5)

[the sniper]

I see some rumors about Solberg to Toyota (quality = dubious)

Sounds wrong to me for multiple reasons...
- running 6 cars while developing new car in less than a year and with both Rovanpera and Katsuta learning?
- why learn this car when next one in 1 year will be quite different (powertrain and centerdif)
- he still needs rally experience on a lot of rallies, learning it with R5 is so much cheaper

Maybe the rumors means that he will be somehow connected/employed by Toyota, not that he will drive WRC with them next year. (Katsuta was "at Toyota" and drove Fiesta R5)

I think the biggest problem with being in a Toyota is being in the same car as Kalle, inviting unwelcome comparisons between them when Oliver will still be trying to learn the rallies...

Surely there'll be less difference between a WRC 2021 and WRC 2022 than an R5/Rally2 and a 2022 WRC?

[mknight]

Surely there'll be less difference between a WRC 2021 and WRC 2022 than an R5/Rally2 and a 2022 WRC?

I am not so sure

- the powersystem with electric low-rev (I guess) power will be different to both

- aero will be "same" on WRCs

- active center diff will disappear just like it's missing on R5, this has a lot to say on how you drive the car in slow corners imo

[Morte66]

Do we know Neuville's contract status?

[EstWRC]

for details you must contact Adamo or Pernasse but he contracted till the end of 2021 as far as i know

[Morte66]

for details you must contact Adamo or Pernasse but he contracted till the end of 2021 as far as i know

Thank you. So if Ogier is doing one and only one more year at Toyota, that creates an obvious possibility...

[er88]

If true, Toyota might be jumping the gun a little on Solberg - but like Kalle - he's probably worth it (if they did sign him up from next season).

Could help run him in an R5 (Skoda/Ford/VW) for a lot of the events, test the current and new WRC car, drive a few rounds in the WRC car in 21 and then be in a place to take the 3rd driver role in the main team when Ogier retires.

You couldn't blame any of the teams trying to lock him down early on a long term contract, due to the massive potential he has. Shame Malcolm is more concerned with his racetrack rather than good drivers thesedays, as I feel Solberg growing & developing for a few years at Msport under Malcolm would be a slightly less pressurised environment for him, than in the Toyota main team next to Evans and particularly Kalle. Would rejuvenate the whole Msport team too, as currently they are sleepwalking.

[Steve Boyd]

Surely the answer is clear - Solberg will do WRC in a Toyota R5/Rally2 car!
Pass that one on to the "rumour mill".

[mknight]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/breen-set-for-biggest-hyundai-wrc-program-yet-in-2021/

So far it's just Dirtfish speculation, but for sure it's likely, I guess they can adopt how many events Sordo and Breen does "flexibly" trough the year. There is no clear candidate elsewhere either (Lappi?, Adamo clearly doesn't like Mikkelsen (based on preferring Breen for Australia last year, not to mention Sweden)).

Anyway again we get this:


Breen drove the factory World Rally Car twice this season, finishing sixth in Sweden


He was 7th...
With only so few rounds trough the year one could hope those journalists that get paid for this either remember or bother to use 5s to check.

D. Evans has been doing these kind of "stupid" mistakes in every other article at least for last 2 years.

[Sulland]

And Mikkelsen does not like the car, so no worries there.

[EstWRC]

#WRC Cheering megaphone 2️⃣0️⃣2️⃣1️⃣
@OfficialWRC
line-up Star-struck

@DaniSordo and @Craig_Breen will share a third Hyundai i20 Coupe WRC during the season. @OttTanak and @thierryneuville will contest all rounds of the 2021 season!

#HMSGOfficial

https://twitter.com/HMSGOfficial/status/1336672985760063491

[mknight]

Nothing unexpected but good to have confirmation. Will be interesting to follow how "flexible" they will assign the rounds to each of them.

[EstWRC]

Our 2021 title defence will get underway at Rallye Monte-Carlo from January 21-24, with Ott, Thierry and Dani. Craig will begin his season at Rally Sweden in February, the scheduled second round of the season


https://motorsport.hyundai.com/wrc-crews-confirmed-for-2021/

[DocMS]

For 2021 when do we expect to get spectators back on stages without restrictions?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Francis44]

For 2021 when do we expect to get spectators back on stages without restrictions?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I hope from March-April onwards we can start to see big crowds again, although still using masks and being apart as much as possible.

It was not talked much this year, but several organizers have been warned that without spectators, it will be impossible to justify many local authorities subsidies towards organizing the events.

[AnttiL]

Also notice that we have only Monte and Sweden in the winter season, then the season restarts again closer to the summer, with hopefully a better situation by then...

[Franky]

Even with the start of vaccinations, I think it's unlikely we'll see big crowds allowed before the second half of the summer.

[EstWRC]

Rally Estonia

[Sulland]

Surely the answer is clear - Solberg will do WRC in a Toyota R5/Rally2 car!
Pass that one on to the "rumour mill".

ok, so now he has signed :rolleyes:

[pantealex]

For 2021 when do we expect to get spectators back on stages without restrictions?



Many countries are probably "Covid safe" May-June but will they allow visitors from "every where" is another question.

so without any restrictions it could be 2023.

[m-ast]

Many countries are probably "Covid safe" May-June but will they allow visitors from "every where" is another question.

so without any restrictions it could be 2023.

I think it will be difficult until the summer months at least, when tourism sector will push to open in all the countries I suposse.

I hope I'm wrong but I personally see difficult that the Monte will go ahead in January

[wwbroe]

I think it will be difficult until the summer months at least, when tourism sector will push to open in all the countries I suposse.

I hope I'm wrong but I personally see difficult that the Monte will go ahead in January

It will be run but without spectators

[m-ast]

It will be run but without spectators

On papers, in reality that will be impossible....