Who is going to drive the other 13 cars?

[Chamoo]

To be honest, I'm a Champ Car fan, and I don't know much about Indy and the IRL. I'm not here to raise hell or stir the pot in any way, I just don't have the information that most of you guys do regarding Indy.

I do enjoy the Indy 500 and have been following it everyday this year. I've noticed that only 26 cars have taken the practice sessions. With qualifying starting tomorrow, do the other 13 cars (39 cars entered?) just accept the fact that they are racing to be in the mid pack and aren't qualifying on pole day? Are they throwing away these practice days because they don't have the funds to run the practices until before bump day? Or do they just not have drivers ready to run the cars so they aren't running practice?

Again, I hope this doesn't sound like a "CC fan bashing Indy/IRL", just an uninformed Indy 500 fan unaware of the situation.

If anyone could help me out, that would be great.

[Alexamateo]

As of today, (Fast Friday), 28 cars have practiced. These are all the "full-month" cars. The balance of cars are 2nd week programs and have only leased motors for the second week of practice, and the race if they qualify.

Here is today's timing and scoring report for a list of those 28 cars.

http://scoring.indycar.com/2007/

I was under the impression that there were 37 "real" entries(not 39), as some like Penske for example will enter extra cars in order to have more garage space.

I am only a fan, so I only know what I read in articles and in forums like these, but these should be the other entries:

#13 Cabbie Motorsports-some former Access guys(Greg Ray's team, but no not Greg Ray) Not much is known, but they have already paid their engine lease, so something's happening.

#16 Panther Racing-John Andretti strongly rumored to be in this car. He has been in Indy and been very coy, but very chipper. He does have backing and has been shopping for a ride, so he'spretty much a sure go.

#18 PDM racing-Jimmy Kite in the car 100% done deal.

#31 Playa del Racing-Phil Giebler in car 100% done deal

#40 Team Leader- PJ Jones 100% done deal in a car painted to look like his father's 1967 STP Turbine car.

#41 AJ Foyt Racing-strong rumors that this car will be leased to Eddie Cheever

#43 Curb/Agajanian/Beck-their second car not known if it will run or not.

#91 Hemelgarn entry-C.R. Crews? Townsand Bell? no one knows yet

#98 Curb/Agajanian/Beck-Alex Barron ran it in Kansas and Homestead, but Max Papis is supposedly the guy now. Who knows?

[uncre8tv]

It's a debatable strategy, but the very nature of pole day makes it not worth the time/money for many teams. 1-11 will fill up tomorrow, I will be shocked if any of those spots don't go to one of the twenty full season drivers, with the very unique exception of Michael Andretti. I don't think an extra two weeks would help that situation for any of those other drivers.

[Jonesi]

Ryan Briscoe (who has the 8th fastest time this month) should also have a strong chance of qualifing today.

[indycool]

Briscoe and Michael Andretti are two. Spots 8-11 could be up for grabs and could be pretty interesting.

Alexamateo, that's pretty much what I've heard about those cars, too.

[RGM Fan]

Does it really matter? Outside of maybe John Andretti in a Panther Car won't most of these guys just be out there making laps in the hopes of getting a decent payday through attritition? At this point no only five drivers have been competitive this season, what makes Indy any different?

[indycool]

Hard to tell....there have been surprise winners before, but the big teams certainly have a big edge.....but if one of those smaller teams has a good run, well, good for them. 500 miles is a long way and both good and bad things can happen to anyone in that long of a race. Remember Parnelli losing because of a 50-cent part?

[MarcoCheever]

Roger Yasukawa for Dreyer & Reinbold

[Jonesi]

konichiwa !

Roger Yasukawa for Dreyer & Reinbold

The article on the track web site didn't say where his #24 Dallara came from, I figure Sarah lost her 5T backup. He's one of four drivers still without a ride that finish running mid pack last year. Others drivers are Papis, Dare & Bell.

[MarcoCheever]

oops sorry he's from L.A.

[R. Mears]

I haven't followed open wheel CART/CC since Tony George kicked the CART cars out of Indy. Went to Indy 13 years straight and the first year of IRL at Indy was my last when Buddy Lazier won it.

[Wilf]

I haven't followed open wheel CART/CC since Tony George kicked the CART cars out of Indy. Went to Indy 13 years straight and the first year of IRL at Indy was my last when Buddy Lazier won it.

It seems to me your bottle of wine has aged to vinegar.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I like Vinegar on my fries.....

[courageous]

Barron for Beck & Moreno replacing Gregoire in the Chastain car confirmed.

Richie Hearn is a strong rumour for Hemelgarn.

[Chamoo]

So how many cars are we looking at for bump day?

[courageous]

Following cars are entered but not qualified:

Playa Del Jaques Lazier
Playa Del Phil Geibler
Hemelgarn Richie Hearn
D&R Roger Yasukawa
Foyt Al Unser
Beck Alex Barron
Panther John Andretti
Dollander PJ Jones
Chastain Roberto Moreno
PDM Jimmy Kite
Racing Pro Jon Herb
Roth Marty Roth
SAMAX Milka Duno

Penske, Beck, Foyt & Cabbie have no driver confirmed.

11 spots on the grid / 13 drivers / 4 other race cars / 30 T cars

[Chamoo]

Does anyone expect any of those 4 other cars to be entered in qualifying?

[Alexamateo]

CAbbie won't run, he didn't get his deal together in time., but as of now there are 15 viable entries for 11 spots. Here they are by fastest speeds of the month:

John Andretti
Roger Yasukawa
Marty Roth :eek: I couldn't believe he's so fast, but I read he's hired engineer's from Foysythe and Minardi to help him out this month. If it's true, it shows.
Al Unser Jr
John Herb
Phil Giebler (watch this guy, I think he's going to be good.)
Jaques Lazier
Roberto Moreno (speed posted by Gregoire)
Milka
Richie Hearn (is backup for Herb, will be his once Herb safely in.)
PJ Jones
Alex barron
Jimmy Kite

not practiced yet
Larry Foyt
the Curb #43 (will go to highest bidder)

[Alexamateo]

11 cars practiced this morning with Yasukawa fastest. John Andretti did not run so there promises to be at least 12 attempts today. The other cars are Hearn (Hemelgarn), Larry Foyt , and the Curb #43.

[RGM Fan]

I'm surprised Giebler isn't in CC actually, he certainly seems to have a background that woule be more conductive to road courses.

Also I heard Cabbie was just a scam to get free pit passes.

[courageous]

Also I heard Cabbie was just a scam to get free pit passes.

Doesn't it cost quite a few thousand $$$ to place an entry? hardly free, so I don't quite follow the logic of that rumour.

Anyhows, so far Yasukawa is safely in, Herb waived his 1st run off (what is the point in waving off these days?) & the Duno/Roth battle for the Matsu****a cup is pretty close.

[Alexamateo]

Anyhows, so far Yasukawa is safely in, Herb waived his 1st run off (what is the point in waving off these days?) & the Duno/Roth battle for the Matsu****a cup is pretty close.

I agree, why would you wave off a run? If they can't get his fuel pressure fixed today and it rains tomorrow, he's out of luck, and if it does turn out to be too slow, you can go back out again. Better to post something, because as of now he's got nothing.

[indycool]

At this point, 1:30 ET Saturday, four cars have qualified -- Yasukawa, Andretti, Duno and Roth, the latter the slowest at 218.922.

That, realistically, leaves about 8-9 cars for seven spots. The 9th would be if P.J. Chesson (or someone else) makes a deal for the Beck backup. The Foyt backup is NOT expected to run, although Larry Foyt took hisn physical this morning. There are other rumblings about backup cars, but the big teams seem to be preparing their race setups.

What seems to be remaining that's known:

Jimmy Kite (PDM)
Roberto Moreno (Chastain)
Al Unser Jr. (Foyt)
Jaques Lazier (Playa del Racing)
Phil Giebler (Playa del Racing)
Alex Barron (Beck)
Jon Herb (Professional)
Richie Hearn (Hemelgarn)

[Alexamateo]

Phil Giebler (watch this guy, I think he's going to be good.)




Ouch! You don't think I jinxed him do ya? :eek: ;)

[keysersoze]

No alex, Phil did this to himself. He learned a valuable lesson at Indy: when the car speaks, you must listen. Hope his team can do a decent thrash job so he can get in the field because:

1) he's a very promising young driver, and

2) Milka as ROY would be a tough pill to swallow. :rolleyes:

[indycool]

As of Noon, they're still thrashing......P.J. Jones and Richie Hearn have hit 216.

[RGM Fan]

Doesn't it cost quite a few thousand $$$ to place an entry? hardly free, so I don't quite follow the logic of that rumour.


The more complete rurmor I heard from someone working at the speedway is the entry fees were wavied after the April deadline came and passed with 27 entries. At least a third of the field is subsidized in part or in full by the George family. So these guys at Cabbie likely made a couple thousand dolllars, got their expenses covered, got all access passes and to my knowledge never turned a lap. I think they scammed TG.

Again I'm just repeating what I heard, so I could be 100 percent wrong.

[indycool]

Most of that appears to be inaccurate. The story in the Indianapolis Star listed the "packages" that were available to smaller or low-budget teams for a second-weekend try and the smallest "package was something like $321,000 for car, engine, tires, fuel and entry fee. So it would appear that IMS, those owning some Panozes or Dallaras they weren't going to run, Honda, Firestone and Ethanol put an attractive package together for 'em. Who got what out of the deal, who knows?

[RGM Fan]

Most of that appears to be inaccurate. The story in the Indianapolis Star listed the "packages" that were available to smaller or low-budget teams for a second-weekend try and the smallest "package was something like $321,000 for car, engine, tires, fuel and entry fee. So it would appear that IMS, those owning some Panozes or Dallaras they weren't going to run, Honda, Firestone and Ethanol put an attractive package together for 'em. Who got what out of the deal, who knows?

Well in Cabbie's case they already had the chassis from some failed team and since the tires are leased and they never turned a lap they didn't need to spend anything on tires or gas.

Those costs in the Indystar don't mean anything because we know that Tony George is financing a number of these unsponsored entries. Its not unthinkable to believe that someone with the equipment would try to scam Tony George for some quick cash and access to some of the more powerful people in American open wheel.

[courageous]

Now if I were cynical, I would say that makes perfect sense ;-)

If this rumour were true, I wonder if it would have any implications for charitible donations during May 2008...

[indycool]

RGM Fan, "you know" TG is financing other entries how? Link?

The story I hear on Cabbie is that the guy ran out of time, is still interested, has leased a shop on Gasoline Alley and is trying to put together a program for next year...... I have not heard if or that he paid anything to anybody on any deal for whatever. Think you might be able to link that information, too?

Besides, wouldn't they PAYING somebody the $321,000 or whatever rather than RECEIVING it from TG or Honda or Firestone or Ethanol or whoever? Your theory makes no sense.

[RGM Fan]

RGM Fan, "you know" TG is financing other entries how? Link?

The story I hear on Cabbie is that the guy ran out of time, is still interested, has leased a shop on Gasoline Alley and is trying to put together a program for next year...... I have not heard if or that he paid anything to anybody on any deal for whatever. Think you might be able to link that information, too?

Besides, wouldn't they PAYING somebody the $321,000 or whatever rather than RECEIVING it from TG or Honda or Firestone or Ethanol or whoever? Your theory makes no sense.

A good number of the teams in the field are subsidized by Tony George. Nine of the teams don't have sponsors, including the Vision team, and Jaques Lazier is sponsored by an amature ice hockey team who's season is over and won't play a game for another five months. Does anyone really think a group of guys with day jobs scraped together $500,000 to sponsor a car? Also supposedly A1GP Team America is sponsoring Buddy Rice? How did Marty Roth find the extra cash to hire talent from CC? Someone is funding these cars and Graham Rahal, who would know, said TG is propping them up.

The only reason this is an issue is because CC is making a big deal about their teams being financially independent and IRL fans want to say that to. There is nothing wrong with subsidizing entries, its happened for years.

There are a lot of positive things going on this field new sponsors, one new qualified rookie and Mika Dunno, but seven teams come out of no where and you don't think that some of them are getting paid to show up? It's a good field, but I still think a few people set out to scam the system.

[Chamoo]

How did Marty Roth find the extra cash to hire talent from CC?

Marty Roth isn't hurting for money. That's why he got into this. As much as I'd love to say that TG is subsidizing him aswell, Marty Roth is going out and doing this himself. TG would find someone (much) more worthy to give money to as a grid filler.

[indycool]

Just how are they going to "scam the system?" THEY hafta pay under the program that was set up, not TG, as I said before.

Again, you said a good number of the teams were subsidized by TG as if this were a fact of some kind, with no backup information whatsoever. You were already told that Marty Roth is independent. IMO, you have no idea if or who might be subsidized.

Sponsors have come on to several of the Vision cars during the month -- Hitachi, for one. Playa del Racing is owned by marketing people who have raced when they can put something together and not raced when they can't, so whatever happened with the Indiana Ice probably has some trade or promotion involved.

And Graham Rahal, WHO WOULD KNOW? Gimme a break. Neither he nor his father would know any more about other teams' finances than other teams would know about his dad's. In fact, he probably doesn't even know the balance sheet of his dad's IRL team.

And if CC teams were financially independent, what was KK doing begging for free engines for a few unnamed CC guys to run Indy and acting like that would help Indy?

[RGM Fan]

I'm not going to get in a flame war over this.

I'm repeating what I heard for a reliable source inside Gasoline Alley. You can believe whatever you want to believe.

The two things I would say though; One, there is a world of difference between not being subsidized and having a million dollars to spend on a two car team for a one-off race. Two, is the field stronger with Roth, Hearn, Moreno, Giebler, Dunno and J. Lazier or with Sebastien Bordais, Will Power, Paul Tracy, Robert Doornboss and Kathrine Legge? My feeling is more competitive cars would make for a stronger race.

For the record I'm not a fan of either series. I might be at Indy this weekend in fact. I never met to pick a fight about this, I thought I was just handing out information.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

If he (TG) had the possibility to give equipemt to the CC teams (as offered by KK) so that they could run, wouldn't he rather do that than pay for these no-names so to say? Makes no sense.

[indycool]

Well, RGM, since your first source was Graham Rahal and now it's a "reliable source in Gasoline Alley," I'll take it for what it's worth.

"Subsidized" might be called "sponsorship" when you look at the sidepods of almost all of those cars at Indy. And Bourdais, etc., did not enter the race so it makes no difference.

No, Jimmy, your perspective makes no sense. If TG gave away engines to CC people to show up, how could he look IRL regulars, who paid for their engines, in the eye?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Well, RGM, since your first source was Graham Rahal and now it's a "reliable source in Gasoline Alley," I'll take it for what it's worth.

"Subsidized" might be called "sponsorship" when you look at the sidepods of almost all of those cars at Indy. And Bourdais, etc., did not enter the race so it makes no difference.

No, Jimmy, your perspective makes no sense. If TG gave away engines to CC people to show up, how could he look IRL regulars, who paid for their engines, in the eye?

You missunderstand me. I was merely questioning RGM's info - if TG was going to pay people for showing up, why would he not take the CC deal instead of dragging out the ones that are claimed to be "subsidized"?

[indycool]

Oh, understand now, Jimmy.....

[RGM Fan]

For the record I have heard from several sources that TG is subsidizing teams. All I feel safe in saying is I come from a family with ties to both series in open wheel and we chat, a lot.

I realize that a lot of you are fans and what you might not realize is that a garage is like a high school. Anyone who's been around while knows everyone else's business from who's secretly, and not so secretly, gay to who is accepting subsidies from TG or KK. None of it makes it to the media because people get fired for that sort of thing. Just because you never heard about it doesn't mean its not true. One of my family members call it the multi-colored wall of silence.

Also just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean anything either. There are a lot of deals that don't make sense to anyone.

[indycool]

You've "been around awhile" and have "several sources."

Oh.

[Wilf]

I'm surprised Giebler isn't in CC actually, he certainly seems to have a background that woule be more conductive to road courses.

Also I heard Cabbie was just a scam to get free pit passes.

You can buy 40 badges for less than the entry fee??????

[RGM Fan]

You can buy 40 badges for less than the entry fee??????

Back when 27 cars were entered TG wavied the entry fee for anyone with a chasis.

[Jonesi]

Since nobody here really knows, but everyone has an opinion. I might as well put in my thoughts on the Cabbie entry. I figure they went in with competely unrealistic expectations, (and they're far from the first team to do that.;-) Thinking something along the lines of:
1. A sponsor will fall from the sky.
2. If not, Tony will pick up our expenses, we've heard he does that.
3. If several cars are damaged, someone might buy out our car/entry.
4. If all else fails, we're here and we get to see the race.

[indycool]

Heard pretty reliably from a guy who was supposed to serve on the crew of Cabbie that the guy actually had two cars and was hooked up some way with Howard Stern but the program just didn't come together. And I don't believe TG ever waived the entry fee. With Honda, Firestone and Ethanol, they "packaged" deals for potential second weekend entrants with a set price to cover car, engine, tires, fuel and entry fee.

[courageous]

With Honda, Firestone and Ethanol, they "packaged" deals for potential second weekend entrants with a set price to cover car, engine, tires, fuel and entry fee.


Which would not apply to Cabbie as they already had the car/engine.

[indycool]

Not sure they had engines....in fact, I'd think they didn't.