Rallycars with DNA and heritage from the old days

[Rallyper]

It´s a must to discuss wheather Opel or Lancia are fullworhty members of the club of rallycars with DNA.

Of course we discuss all brands as well. (Easier for us senior (in age) members, I know)

[atsiotras79]

Of course they are my friend!
Lancia and Opel? How can you even ask that? :)

[deephouse]

Can we make globally the most disscused thread so the manufacturers will step up and prove again who can be the best :P joke

[Rally Power]

It´s a must to discuss wheather Opel or Lancia are fullworhty members of the club of rallycars with DNA.


Yep, Opel and Lancia have their place in rally History but we can’t put them on the same level…Lancia was for almost 3 decades the top manu in the international rally scene, besides providing to main private teams the most competitive rally cars available. From the early days as an independent factory team to its integration in Fiat’s group, Lancia was always at the front of the sport and still is one of the most successful rally brands ever. Opel was a GM brand and GM never really cared about rally; Opel rally history is mainly due to its importers and private tuners honorable efforts; it was them who manage to develop and run most of Opel’s rally programmes and provide privateers a range of reliable, even if not top spec, rally cars.

Btw, there’s a fine history section on factory teams/cars in rallye-info.com site. Hat off to those runing it.

[Rallyper]

Of course they are my friend!
Lancia and Opel? How can you even ask that? :)

It started in the Silly Season thread at about page 94 or so. So I thought it would be necessary to start a proper thread about Rallycars DNA...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lancia... it goes without saying.

Opel... well yes the name has rally history, but not recently and not so much at world level.But they certainly did great things at national level and especially with one if my favourite cars, the Manta 400,

During the 1980's in the British & Irish Rally championships with Jimmy McRae, the late Russell Brookes and the McHales, Fisher, Coleman etc etc the Opel Manta & Ascona 400 were the winning car's for years. They even took on and beat many mighty 4WD Group B cars on tarmac.

It would be great to see both brands back in rally.

[Norm75]

While it would be great, as I said in the other thread Lancia only make one car (that is quite long in the tooth) that is only sold in Italy so that won't happen.
With psa looking to merge with fca, and owning Vauxhall/Opel, it's unlikely any of the other manufacturers in those groups will be back anytime soon as long as psa are running Citroen in WRC.

That said, I think Vauxhall/Opel unveiled a Corsa electric rally car, so maybe Citroen quit in a year or two and Opel take over in the hybrid era.

[Rallyper]

While it would be great, as I said in the other thread Lancia only make one car (that is quite long in the tooth) that is only sold in Italy so that won't happen.
With psa looking to merge with fca, and owning Vauxhall/Opel, it's unlikely any of the other manufacturers in those groups will be back anytime soon as long as psa are running Citroen in WRC.

That said, I think Vauxhall/Opel unveiled a Corsa electric rally car, so maybe Citroen quit in a year or two and Opel take over in the hybrid era.

That´s maybe for another thread. This is about DNA of different brands.

Saab for instance. We could talk hours about that brand when it comes to rallying. (Right? JanVanVurpa?)

Maybe this topic is a bit learning for you youngsters only heard about Hyundai and Toyota... :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hopefully the youngsters look into the history of the other current WRC brands, Ford and Citroen too !

Others to educate about would be VW (pre Polo WRC) and Renault in the 1960's-1980's.

[Rally Power]

During the 1980's in the British & Irish Rally championships with Jimmy McRae, the late Russell Brookes and the McHales, Fisher, Coleman etc etc the Opel Manta & Ascona 400 were the winning car's for years. They even took on and beat many mighty 4WD Group B cars on tarmac.

Yep, last Gr.4 and early Gr.B years were a nice era for Rally, all over the world. Btw, for those interested, besides www.rallye-info.com , www.rallygroupbshrine.org and www.tech-racingcars.wikidot.com/rally-cars are also valuable rally history sources.

[Norm75]

That´s maybe for another thread. This is about DNA of different brands.

Saab for instance. We could talk hours about that brand when it comes to rallying. (Right? JanVanVurpa?)well, I was replying to fast Eddie, as to why we won't see Lancia back, but may see Opel one day, both manufacturers with rally dna so I don't see why it is not relevant.

Maybe this topic is a bit learning for you youngsters only heard about Hyundai and Toyota... :)

Aimed at me? I've been watching rallying since the 70's old chap, I'm quite aware of rally car history, Saab 96 two strokes, v4's, 900ems etc, and am well aware of drivers like Erik Carlsson, Stig Blomqvist and Per Eklund amoung other Saab works drivers.
In fact I have shaken hands with Stig Blomqvist. . . . .

[Norm75]

Hopefully the youngsters look into the history of the other current WRC brands, Ford and Citroen too !

Others to educate about would be VW (pre Polo WRC) and Renault in the 1960's-1980's.
Again, if I'm young at 45 years old then thank you very much.
Maybe if you read my post in the other thread you will have noticed about a week ago I wrote in there about some of the history of Citroen, having had a presence in rallying for every decade of the last 60 years.

And I'm aware of Renault and Volkswagen history in rallying too, from the r8 gordini and even the r16, to r5 turbo and Maxi, r11 turbo, Clio and Megane maxi etc. Kenneth Ericssons outright win in a mk2 golf GTI some 25 years before a Polo ever graced the wrc stage.

[deephouse]

I'm too young for Group A, B, 2, 4 era but grew up with Colin McRae Rally 2.0 game, basicaly first WRC cars. But I always love looking at old footage from previous rallying eras.

When I was a kid our local priest had pure red colored Lancia Delta and I just love it. Since then I follow that sport.

[Norm75]

Here are some of my rally car model collection, which has amongst many other r8 gordini, Alpine A110 if you want to call it a Renault, some Saab 96's, Volvo PV544 for you Swedish folk, and many cars from the VAG stable

1883

File seems to have attached in Australian format!

[pantealex]

I remember when Audi had FWD rally cars, so they also started long before quattro time.

[Rallyper]

Again, if I'm young at 45 years old then thank you very much.
Maybe if you read my post in the other thread you will have noticed about a week ago I wrote in there about some of the history of Citroen, having had a presence in rallying for every decade of the last 60 years.

And I'm aware of Renault and Volkswagen history in rallying too, from the r8 gordini and even the r16, to r5 turbo and Maxi, r11 turbo, Clio and Megane maxi etc. Kenneth Ericssons outright win in a mk2 golf GTI some 25 years before a Polo ever graced the wrc stage.

No, no. I didn´t aim at you. Maybe I came up with the idea after your quote. Can´t remember. Don´t take it personally. I´m just want those younger persons oon this forum get to know what happened 40-70 years ago...
And no age is registrered for members so hard to know age... ;)

[Rallyper]

I remember when Audi had FWD rally cars, so they also started long before quattro time.

I remember and saw live even Auto Union (DKW) in rallies in the beginning of the 60´s. Sounded like Saab Sport, but looked different. :)

[Norm75]

No, no. I didn´t aim at you. Maybe I came up with the idea after your quote. Can´t remember. Don´t take it personally. I´m just want those younger persons oon this forum get to know what happened 40-70 years ago...
And no age is registrered for members so hard to know age... ;)

No problem Per, that post was in reply to Eddie's post.
I did reply to you in post above it but for some reason my reply was intwined with your post that I quoted.

[Norm75]

. . , I´m just want those younger persons oon this forum get to know what happened 40-70 years ago...

I like your sentiment and passion, but I suspect 'younger' rally fans are more interested in rallying in the current era. Interest in the history of the sport and manufacturers that have been involved may come later to them and that's fine. Personally, growing up and a fan of rallying, I was only interested in the sport at its current moment in time. Perhaps 15 years ago I became more interested in the history of the sport.

Having said that, at least nowadays if the younger generation are interested in rallying they have a wealth of platforms that we didn't have growing up, with the internet for research, YouTube for old rallying videos, and most of the younger generation have Xbox or PlayStation's that have numerous rallying games, many of which feature classic rally cars. At least they have that which will ignite interest in the history of the sport.

Edit to add, apologies for going slightly off topic.

[Rallyper]

Having said that, at least nowadays if the younger generation are interested in rallying they have a wealth of platforms that we didn't have growing up, with the internet for research, YouTube for old rallying videos, and most of the younger generation have Xbox or PlayStation's that have numerous rallying games, many of which feature classic rally cars. At least they have that which will ignite interest in the history of the sport.
.

One thing is, they should drive older cars in the games. For example Manta 400 in Dirt. I did, because I drove several Ascona B´s in rallies and I experienced that the Manta 400 felt practically the same as in reality, driving Rally Wales in the Dirt. Very, very amusing. And a way to get to know older rallycars ...

[Norm75]

One thing is, they should drive older cars in the games. For example Manta 400 in Dirt. I did, because I drove several Ascona B´s in rallies and I experienced that the Manta 400 felt practically the same as in reality, driving Rally Wales in the Dirt. Very, very amusing. And a way to get to know older rallycars ...thats very interesting that you say that. I've not played Xbox or PlayStation for getting on for a decade, I've driven a few rally cars but can't say any of the older rally games I've played could be described as feeling quite so realistic. Might have to confiscate my sons games console :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I loved the Opel Manta 400 so much some kind guys created one for me in Colin McRae 2.0 based on the Sierra Cosworth. :)

[Norm75]

I loved the Opel Manta 400 so much some kind guys created one for me in Colin McRae 2.0 based on the Sierra Cosworth. :)

The Russell Brooke's liveried one you posted in British rally forum?
Very cool.

I'll try and be more on topic.
Many years ago in my late teens I owned a Sierra Xr4x4. A few weeks ago I was looking these up on the Internet and came across some of the rally history of this car that I never realised and found quite interesting.
When the group b ban came in to effect, ford were faced with replacing the rs200 with a group A car. They had two options, the rear wheel drive 2 litre turbocharged Cosworth, or the 2.8 litre naturally aspirated 4wd Sierra XR4x4. Ford planned to take two Cosworths to the season opener in 87' Monte Carlo rally. On the run up to the event, heavy snow fell and ford quickly changed the plan to run one cosworth, and one Xr4x4 driven by Stig Blomqvist, who ended the event in disqualification. Ford didn't use the XR often, only a few events where 4wd was seen as a bigger advantage than the more powerful cosworth.
In Sweden with Stig at the wheel again, the following year 1988 saw ford podium with the xr4x4 with 2nd place.

Now, I knew McRae drove the xr4x4 in Sweden where I think he finished 6th, but wasn't aware the xr4x4 ever got on the podium.
What surprises me even more, given the fact that this particular car was used very little by Ford when compared to the Sierra Cosworth and Saphire Cosworth 4x4, was the fact that only once did the Cosworth ever better the xr's 2nd place finish with one 1st place finish in the world rally championship.

I've driven both, the XR was a weapon down a tight, twisty country lane. Shame Ford didn't use it more often.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Russell Brooke's liveried one you posted in British rally forum?
Very cool.



No, that's from the latest Dirt Rally 2.0. I was talking about way back in the CMR 2.0 days...

https://i.imgur.com/gtbZIrY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v3Vn5nd.jpg