Silly Season 2020

[AnttiL]

What do we have cooking for next year's seats?

Here's what's confirmed: Neuville and Loeb will continue at Hyundai, as well as Ogier and Lappi at Citroen. Everything else is in the open

Rumors:
- Tänak to continue at Toyota
- Rovanperä to go to Toyota (or M-Sport)
- Sordo to go to Toyota

What's your guess?

[mknight]

Evans will go somewhere for a decent salary (Toyota or Hyundai).
Though missing out Finland and Germany just when the negotiations typically take off probably didn't help his chances.

[Allez Andruet]

I think after that staggering silly season 2019 we won't actually see that many changes this year (for the next season). IMO Sordo has no place at TGR - so Tommi, if you read this, don't do it. Meeke is out and contrary to what some believe, will be replaced by Rovanperä who will drive full season. Tänak and JML to stay.

Hyundai to keep playing the same driver roulette as this year, the only exception being Breen in the mix. I.e. Sordo and Mikkelsen will remain part of the Korean team.

Evans & Suninen at M-Sport, with Greensmith doing x number of rallies in the third Fiesta.

Sounds a bit boring though, but that's what you get after witnessing things like Meeke to Toyota and Loeb to Hyundai.

...and Ari Mökkonen unable to find a full-time drive for 2020 :(

[Tarmop]

I think after all the troubles that have been with the car and his teammates, Mr. Tänak has a word to say atleast about one teammate and through mr Toyoda if necessary...youngsters sharing the third car with that someone...or occasional 4 car starts.

[AnttiL]

Hyundai to keep playing the same driver roulette as this year, the only exception being Breen in the mix. I.e. Sordo and Mikkelsen will remain part of the Korean team.



You suggest they will have Neuville with four other drivers rotating? And that all drivers will accept that?

[Allez Andruet]

You suggest they will have Neuville with four other drivers rotating? And that all drivers will accept that?

Yep, that was based on assumption that Neuville is the only one doing all rallies. And what comes to the others, I don't know if they have a choice? Sordo will probably be pleased with such suggestion, Breen will be happy not to be completely out for second consecutive year and Mikkelsen might have nothing to counter Adamo's "it's 8 (or something) rallies for you or nothing" with. And Le Maestro drives whatever rallies that are not disrupting his holiday plans.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Hyundai to keep playing the same driver roulette as this year, the only exception being Breen in the mix. I.e. Sordo and Mikkelsen will remain part of the Korean team. (

Neuville & Loeb already have 2020 contracts with Hyundai. Sordo & Mikkelsen remain and add Breen into the mix would be 5 drivers

[mknight]

You suggest they will have Neuville with four other drivers rotating? And that all drivers will accept that?

If the drivers don't have any other option it is possible. Surely Mikkelsen would gladly trade it for a full time drive anywhere else if he can. Breen probably doesn't have many options atm, neither has Sordo imo and Loeb has already signed for part season.

[mknight]

And Le Maestro drives whatever rallies that are not disrupting his holiday plans.

I am not so sure Loeb will have much free choice next year if he keeps under-performing. Compared to his outings in C3 just the year before he did ok (on speed) on 2 out of 5 starts this year.

[Tarmop]

I think Adamo is quite pleased with him, all things considered. He has talked about it also. There`s going to be a new I20 soon and Loeb has quite a big role in it probably. And talking about his starts this year, he did really well in Monte, Chile and probably would have done great in Portugal too, if not the I20s issues that hit both him and Sordo. Only real dissapointment was Corsica, where he had too costly errors. Sweden wasn`t perfect, especially after a good Monte, but again, he had some pace to show and we are talking about different rallies and an unfamiliar new car.

[mknight]

I think Adamo is quite pleased with him, all things considered. He has talked about it also. There`s going to be a new I20 soon and Loeb has quite a big role in it probably.
Where did he say he was pleased (which wasn't right after Chile)?

Sure for development it should be good to have him, but no cherry picking events when he can't perform on them. Anyway I see we going off topic here. He will stay at Hyundai cause he has contract.

[able1]

My thoughts about next years lineup. !!SPECULATION!!!
Citroen: Lappi Ogier (100%)
Msport : Evans and Suninen + Paddon and Greensmith in 3rd (speculate 3-4 rounds each)
Toyota: Ott Tanak and Latvala (Japanese love him , Makinen would show him the door) , Rovanpera and Sordo share 3rd car
Hyundai: Neuville driving all 14 , Loeb, Mikkelsen, Breen and maybe Ostberg sharing other two cars.

Meeke without a seat

[Portimao]

None consideres Bottas as a paydriver? I bet is he's off F1 he will take part in some rallies.

[pantealex]

None consideres Bottas as a paydriver? I bet is he's off F1 he will take part in some rallies.

He will drive F1 2020

and maybe some rallies but not in WRC-level

[Rally Hokkaido]

And what about Katsuta? He will do Rally Japan at least next year (if he doesn't break too many Yaris WRCs in the meantime)?

[AnttiL]

And what about Katsuta? He will do Rally Japan at least next year (if he doesn't break too many Yaris WRCs in the meantime)?

Satellite team

[Rally Power]

Rumors:
- Tänak to continue at Toyota
- Rovanperä to go to Toyota (or M-Sport)
- Sordo to go to Toyota
What's your guess?

Sordo to Toyota, as Tanak to Hyundai, is hardly a rumour; we should rather see it as part of Makinen/Adamo mind games...

[Allez Andruet]

Sordo to Toyota, as Tanak to Hyundai, is hardly a rumour; we should rather see it as part of Makinen/Adamo mind games...

That game is a walkover for Adamo though.

AA: I'm interested in hiring Tänak.
TM: But I'm interested in hiring Sordo!

Somehow I don't think Adamo would be that badly shocked...

[Ricardo Filipe Matos]

Toyota - Tanak, Latvala, Evans and Rovanpera/Katsuta for 4th car or satellite team.
M-sport - Suninen, Mikkelsen, Greensmith/Meeke/Paddon
Hyundai - Neuville, Breen, Sordo/Tiidemand/Loeb
Citroen - Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg/Stephane

[reff92]

Toyota - Tanak, Latvala, Evans and Rovanpera/Katsuta for 4th car or satellite team.
M-sport - Suninen, Mikkelsen, Greensmith/Meeke/Paddon
Hyundai - Neuville, Breen, Sordo/Tiidemand/Loeb
Citroen - Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg/Stephane


You made my day with Tidemand. There is no place for him, because he showed that he cant drive at those speeds. - Same story is with GreenSmith . Only sponsorship money will keep those 4 class drivers in wrc.

God bless America!

[Tarmop]

Well, you showed your stupidity quite well...

Though yes, a not-paid place atm i also can`t see for them.

[Allez Andruet]

God bless America!

...or otherwise WRC is doomed.

[Entertainer]

You made my day with Tidemand. There is no place for him, because he showed that he cant drive at those speeds. - Same story is with GreenSmith . Only sponsorship money will keep those 4 class drivers in wrc.

God bless America!

Haha a new NOT has arrived? Smells troll all the way from Estonia/Finland...

There is no room for a JWRC/ 2 x WRC2 champion? Then I guess no room for Rovanperä neither if he doesn't IMMEDIATELY make top3 times in 1st and 2nd rally? Tidemand who beat your precious Tänak a couple of times in WRC2, to be current: he beat him 5 years ago in Rally Deutschland in the same car, (Ford R5) and has only had 2 outings in 2017-WRC-car... you already write him off?

YOU made MY day with that comment.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nothing worth speculating until Tanak's future is confirmed. Neuville and Ogier are staying put so any other changes will hardly be earth-shattering.

I hope any changes will be the 'old-guard' making way for those that have recently lost seats and some new faces. I'm not too confident though as the stakes are so high with the big Manu teams of Toyota & Hyundai and safe bets may still prevail.

[Entertainer]

Nothing worth speculating until Tanak's future is confirmed. Neuville and Ogier are staying put so any other changes will hardly be earth-shattering.

I hope any changes will be the 'old-guard' making way for those that have recently lost seats and some new faces. I'm not too confident though as the stakes are so high with the big Manu teams of Toyota & Hyundai and safe bets may still prevail.

Agree completely. As much as i love seeing Sordo win in Spain, and Loeb coming back for a guest-run and winning, I'm hoping they move aside. Maybe to racing WTCC or DTM full time.
Give Breen, Paddon, Tidemand and Rovanperä a chance for a season or two, they are the ones most deserving given recent years results.

[deephouse]

Imagine next year silly season when Citroeners will retire because they haven't got the funds despite being all vocal about hybrid and other stuff. 2 shitty seats less

[mknight]

Agree completely. As much as i love seeing Sordo win in Spain, and Loeb coming back for a guest-run and winning, I'm hoping they move aside. Maybe to racing WTCC or DTM full time.
Give Breen, Paddon, Tidemand and Rovanperä a chance for a season or two, they are the ones most deserving given recent years results.

I don't.

It's entirely possible to have "too young" team and it can lead to disaster. C3 with Lefevbre and Breen are perfect example that almost led to Citroen leaving WRC. Both got to full factory drives with limited to show for (Breen's 3rd place in Finland stands out though, but that was the only result). Neither had the pressing power and/or experience to press changes needed to the car. In the end Citroen went back to "proven" Mikkelsen, Loeb and Østberg who all were out of drive at start of 2017 (thought Loeb didn't want to drive at that point).

While I don't think Lefevbre had what it takes, this also almost destroyed Breen's career.

So one "young"/inexperienced driver in team is ok, but 2 is too much. Hence when I see proposals for Toyota with Tanak, Sunninen, Rovanpera and Katsuta it sounds crazy.


Btw. in terms of age it's Loeb>Meeke>Sordo>Latvala>Ogier>Tanak>Paddon>Neuville >Evans>Mikkelsen>Tidemand>Breen>Lappi>Suninen.

Out of these Loeb and Sordo drive part time and Ogier plans on retiring after next year. In terms of starts it's actually not very different, with the exception of Tidemand off course.

[cali]

Haha a new NOT has arrived? Smells troll all the way from Estonia/Finland...

There is no room for a JWRC/ 2 x WRC2 champion? Then I guess no room for Rovanperä neither if he doesn't IMMEDIATELY make top3 times in 1st and 2nd rally? Tidemand who beat your precious Tänak a couple of times in WRC2, to be current: he beat him 5 years ago in Rally Deutschland in the same car, (Ford R5) and has only had 2 outings in 2017-WRC-car... you already write him off?

YOU made MY day with that comment.You do realize that the comparison in a R5 was not really a contest bcs of different tyre makes and DMack being not develeloped on tarmac? Your response sound as crazy as the guy to whom you were answering. Quite biased glasses you had there.

While I do like to Tidemand have a seat in WRC I really cannot see anyone's seat endangered by him. It's a tough competition at the top. Hopefully he is not a write-off and he does not run out of finances because occupying a seat in a WRC team could take for years...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Entertainer]

You do realize that the comparison in a R5 was not really a contest bcs of different tyre makes and DMack being not develeloped on tarmac? Your response sound as crazy as the guy to whom you were answering. Quite biased glasses you had there.

While I do like to Tidemand have a seat in WRC I really cannot see anyone's seat endangered by him. It's a tough competition at the top. Hopefully he is not a write-off and he does not run out of finances because occupying a seat in a WRC team could take for years...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Hehe sure, I'll give that one to you, (although I dont see Tänak on Dmacks that year dominating away from tarmac, for example on gravel, except in Poland where he did good and won...was Dmack bad on all surfaces?) ...but you are kind of nitpicking and/or missing my point?

My point...Tänak had THREE FULL seasons in WRC-car before making a significant attack towards the top (2017) + stand in-rallies early in his career like Tidemand/Greensmith has now. During his first season he was WAY off the top and now he is arguably the best driver in the world.

To write off someone after two-three rallies is just plain stupid, especially now when the latest spec-cars are even faster.

[cali]

Hehe sure, I'll give that one to you, (although I dont see Tänak on Dmacks that year dominating away from tarmac, for example on gravel, except in Poland where he did good and won...was Dmack bad on all surfaces?) ...but you are kind of nitpicking and/or missing my point?

My point...Tänak had THREE FULL seasons in WRC-car before making a significant attack towards the top (2017) + stand in-rallies early in his career like Tidemand/Greensmith has now. During his first season he was WAY off the top and now he is arguably the best driver in the world.

To write off someone after two-three rallies is just plain stupid, especially now when the latest spec-cars are even faster.No I'm not nitpicking at all, just presented the facts for you.

You need to have several seasons at the wheel of a top class car to start playing with the big boys and threathening them, no doubt about it. And agreed, it's quite stupid to write-off someone when they are just about to start their career. Hopefully we'll see more of Pontus but as I said, it could take several years and you need to have the cash to do that.

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[reff92]

Look a little bit farther than your teardrops. There are at least 3 very good drivers who are not compeating in wrc full season(Breen,Ostberg and Paddon) - who are all showed some very good pace.(Breen with hyndai this year and with r5 cars all over the ireland, Ostberg last year finland with this non-drivable citruen and paddon had a pretty good half season last year). Fact is that Msport isnt non-profit organisatsion and you need to pay(or your sponsors) that seat.

[Tarmop]

That is known to all who have said something regarding this topic. Take a look at how you stated it...

[deephouse]

Look a little bit farther than your teardrops. There are at least 3 very good drivers who are not compeating in wrc full season(Breen,Ostberg and Paddon) - who are all showed some very good pace.(Breen with hyndai this year and with r5 cars all over the ireland, Ostberg last year finland with this non-drivable citruen and paddon had a pretty good half season last year). Fact is that Msport isnt non-profit organisatsion and you need to pay(or your sponsors) that seat.

Totally agree. And yet team principals are giving chances to formula drivers and other blokes

[AnttiL]

Sordo's comments about going to Toyota

"I don't know anything about that...I just read about it in a Spanish magazine. One of those Spanish journalists wrote that thing, I bought him a good dinner for that"

"Give me 10 million and I'll move to Finland"

https://www.rallit.fi/toyotalle-huhuttu-rallitahti-kymmenesta-miljoonasta-muutan-vaikka-suomeen/

:D

[er88]

Very open interview with Malcolm Wilson there..., seemed quite chirpy and upbeat. Confirmed Tanak and Martin where in the Msport tent today and talks ongoing. Trying hard to get budget in place and thinks Tanak will want to get something sorted by start if October.

[EstWRC]

naaahh, they are trying to get Evans in Toyota ;):D

[Portimao]

I'm wondering if Tanak comes back to M-Sport, then who's gonna be number 1 in Toyota?

[mknight]

I'm wondering if Tanak comes back to M-Sport, then who's gonna be number 1 in Toyota?

That's the million dollar question... without him Toyota seems toothless when it comes to title fight and only drivers that have not proved they can charge for title are available (Latvala, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Evans, Suninen). Out of these they already have 2 in the team and it doesn't seem to work.

which makes you wonder if they would ever let him leave....

but sure they could "wait out" a year or two hoping Rovanpera (or someone else, like Suninen) develops.

[skarderud]

That's the million dollar question... without him Toyota seems toothless when it comes to title fight and only drivers that have not proved they can charge for title are available (Latvala, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Evans, Suninen). Out of these they already have 2 in the team and it doesn't seem to work.

which makes you wonder if they would ever let him leave....

but sure they could "wait out" a year or two hoping Rovanpera (or someone else, like Suninen) develops.

Out of those 5, Mikkelsen and Evans is the, by far, best choice.
Latvala maybe over his prime, Meeke still to much "unluck", and sunninen i really don't know how good can be.



Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[meh]

From the interview with Wilson I picket up "we have business relations together", which is true with Markko Märtin Motorsport.

But taking the "business relationship" out of that context - I wonder, does Wilson have win-win situation here? May he have some percentage of Tänak's salary because he have been investing in him earlier years? (To be clear - those are just my questions, not facts).

[Tarmop]

Tänak is also a co-owner of MM-Motorsport...
Wouldn`t be surprised about the second part also.

[pantealex]

TGR/TMR Estonia and MM-Motorsport are in same place (same yard/buildings)

[Sulland]

Tanak is the kingpin on the driver market.
not much will happen until he is crossed off.

My bet; Neuville stays, Ogier stays, Lappi stays, Latvala stays, Meeke moves.
If Tanak stay, then Mikkelsen goes to MSport. if Tanak goes to MSport Mikkelsen might still follow, but more logical stays.
Østberg and Breen are jokers for what seat is left, if any.

[er88]

Think Mads will bring budget and run as a 3rd Citroen entry (maybe not for all rallies though). They'll want to have a stronger showing in the manufacturers championship for as little the cost possible.

He won't get in anywhere else and doubt he wants to go back to paying Malcolm since that relationship soured.

[AnttiL]

The reason for Tänak's visit to the M-Sport tent was getting Greensmith's signature :D :D :D

https://twitter.com/richmillener/status/1164632393103347713

[AnttiL]

My bet; Neuville stays, Ogier stays, Lappi stays,

Good bet. These guys have contracts for next year (as does Loeb)

[Allez Andruet]

Out of those 5, Mikkelsen and Evans is the, by far, best choice.
Latvala maybe over his prime, Meeke still to much "unluck", and sunninen i really don't know how good can be.

I don't think those two are the best (let alone by far) for that specific role, the number one in the team who should challenge for the title. Mikkelsen is sort of a modern-day Sordo - great driver in a certain role, but is lacking the critical last few tenths and hundredths required to be in the fight for the title. Evans sure has potential, but it's about time he starts to consistently deliver. Suninen might be a bit too green for the #1 role in 2020 and Meeke seems to have lost his magical speed. Of all the guys mentioned in the quoted post, I'd still say Latvala - given the right circumstances - has the best shot for the title. Even in 2020. What JML needs, is the undeniable leader role in the team, and IF Tänak leaves, it might just be possible. Still a longshot though, but possible.

[mknight]

For start I will repeat that I don't think any of these 5 are a clear number 1 candidate, which is why we are talking about it in the first place.

Anyway out of these Latvala, Meeke and Evans all already were or are (Evans) number 1 driver and only Latvala was really in a title fight. But that year (2017) also showed that the consistency (in speed) wasn't still there, nobody knows how much was that due to the car just not being fast on some rallies and how much was the driver. At that time people most thought it was the car, but last two years showed that it could also have been the driver. (compare tarmac speed on Corsica this year with Tanak and Meeke vs Latvala for example).

Mikkelsen has never been n1, but historically his main problem is that he lacks the last 1/10 of speed to win by. Which is important when win gives 7 more points than 2nd place.

Evans looks like a very good n2 to have in any team to me, but doesn't have consistent speed on more rallies, even though he can win on a few. Note that he is 1 year older than Mikkelsen and basically same number of full season WRC drives.

Obviously it's too early for Suninen to be n1, but maybe the season after. Clearly not a good idea to have something like Suninen + Rovanpera+Katsuta (at Toyota) or Suninen+Greensmith+Tidemand/Paddon (at MSport), those combination just simply lack the experience needed when things are not working perfectly. (see Finland this year)

[Allez Andruet]

Anyway out of these Latvala, Meeke and Evans all already were or are (Evans) number 1 driver and only Latvala was really in a title fight. But that year (2017) also showed that the consistency (in speed) wasn't still there, nobody knows how much was that due to the car just not being fast on some rallies and how much was the driver. At that time people most thought it was the car, but last two years showed that it could also have been the driver.

It was all about the car in 2017 for JML. Without the technical issues in Poland, Finland and Germany he would have been in the mix. Maybe he would have lost that battle anyway, but in that specific year it was the Yaris, not Latvala himself, that blew it.

[wrc2017]

What if Ogier doesn't continue next year with Citroen.... and retires early

[wrc2017]

From the interview with Wilson I picket up "we have business relations together", which is true with Markko Märtin Motorsport.

But taking the "business relationship" out of that context - I wonder, does Wilson have win-win situation here? May he have some percentage of Tänak's salary because he have been investing in him earlier years? (To be clear - those are just my questions, not facts).

I said this months ago. All this nonsense of Tanak going to Ford is a smoke screen. It's only to get more money from Toyota, of which some goes back to MW...

[EstWRC]

This is interesting, Watch Sordos instagram story, he, Adamo, Tänak and Järveoja having fun with doing arm wrestling :D Instagram.com/danisordorallye

[racerx1979]

Well the reason they did it because the joke was Tanak was stronger since he's had to drive without power steering hahaha.

[giu canbera]

is there any real chances of Citroen and/or MSport quitting for 2020 cuz of budgets??
I mean.. I think I finally have the $ to go to Chile or Arg to watch a WRC event for the first time
But it'd be soo terrible if theres only 3 toyotas and 3 hyundais competing =[
And I keep seeing these "Oh but Citroen and Ford may quit cuz its getting to expensive" u'know

[er88]

is there any real chances of Citroen and/or MSport quitting for 2020 cuz of budgets??
I mean.. I think I finally have the $ to go to Chile or Arg to watch a WRC event for the first time
But it'd be soo terrible if theres only 3 toyotas and 3 hyundais competing =[
And I keep seeing these "Oh but Citroen and Ford may quit cuz its getting to expensive" u'knowCitroen and Msport will be there for 2020, nearly 100%.

Msport are talking about signing Tanak or finding the money for that, instead of worrying about money to keep going. Worst comes to worst it's just pay drivers at Msport. But I see suninen continuing there, Greensmith with some budget, and maybe another driver bringing budget if Evans goes. Think Evans will stay though.

Citroen could in theory maybe pack it in if Ogier drops a bombshell that he doesnt want to continue in 2020, but I still doubt that. I'd be worried about Citroen for 2021 onwards once Ogier definitely goes though....

[dimviii]

Citroen could in theory maybe pack it in if Ogier drops a bombshell that he doesnt want to continue in 2020, but I still doubt that. I'd be worried about Citroen for 2021 onwards once Ogier definitely goes though....

i am not sure if Ogier would like to continue,if the c3 is at same state as now at November,and loosing the 2019 championship.

[TypeR]

yes, it s0cks on tarmac, but overally wouldn't be so harsh on it.. Out of 10 rallies, Citroen has 8 podiums(including 2 wins) and two simple mistakes and no points from Ogier in Sweden and Sardegna

Ofcourse the situation is difficult, specially Ogier quitting after next year.. but I think the new hybrid era would interest all the manus + hopefully someone extra..

[mknight]

I don't see Ogier as a guy that would give up earlier when he is so vocal about 2020 end.

Sure he is massively pissed about tarmac, but on gravel he is on podium pace everywhere...and now he won't have to clean the road for a while.

[er88]

Sure he is massively pissed about tarmac, but on gravel he is on podium pace everywhere...and now he won't have to clean the road for a while.

Is he on podium pace everywhere or is that a bit skewed? From the top of my head, I think he was handed Podiums in Argentina by Toyotas problems for Tanak and Meeke (plus Meekes time penalty), and then handed a podium in Portugal as well by Meekes mistake and also Jari's troubles. In Finland he was nowhere, and Sardinia was a horrible rally for him. He's really not at one with the car on a huge number of rallies in my eyes, but ofcourse especially tarmac. You can mention road order but Ogier when totally happy can win/fight for wins on gravel events, even when running first car.

He's just one of the best ever drivers and is getting the absolute maximum out of the package currently, by fighting the car/ being clever on some occasions.

[meh]

During Rallye Deutschland Mäkinen was quite confident, that they will have another options available if Tänak leaves. If it's going to happen, can we expect Ogier to Toyota? In this case I'm afraid that Citroen quits also.

[Rally Power]

Citroen is granted for 2020 with the same 2 cars/drivers; all involved (Jackson, Budar, Ogier and Lappi) already confirmed it.

[mknight]

Is he on podium pace everywhere or is that a bit skewed?...

He's just one of the best ever drivers and is getting the absolute maximum out of the package currently, by fighting the car/ being clever on some occasions.

IMO his results on gravel this year are fully compatible with 2017 season at about this point. Sure there were some lucky results, but most are deserved. Just as in 2017.

One of them is the Argentina you mentioned where he was clear 3rd with everyone still in the race and Meeke 13s behind when Meeke hit the side for puncture and Ogier subsequently the gate after heistating which side of the gate to take.

Also in 2017 Tänak was faster in same car at some rallies, a bit similarly to that Lappi had been faster on 2 this year.


During Rallye Deutschland Mäkinen was quite confident, that they will have another options available if Tänak leaves. If it's going to happen, can we expect Ogier to Toyota? In this case I'm afraid that Citroen quits also.

I think in that case he will go for a "B" team with a combination of some of Latvala, Evans, Mikkelsen, Suninen and (part season) Sordo with developing Kalle.

That kind of team can have very good chances for manu champ. and Kalle in best case be real title contender in 2 years or so. Don't believe he will try to get Ogier.

[Mirek]

Sorry for being late to the party but for what reason should Tänak leave Toyota?

[AnttiL]

Sorry for being late to the party but for what reason should Tänak leave Toyota?

Something breaks in the car almost every rally

[Mirek]

But he's still in a comfortable lead in the championship which has never happend to him before. I can imagine that the issues are annoying but other teams also have issues (of whatever nature). For me to leave is a pure gamble but of course I can't see in his head.

[meh]

But he's still in a comfortable lead in the championship which has never happend to him before. I can imagine that the issues are annoying but other teams also have issues (of whatever nature). For me to leave is a pure gamble but of course I can't see in his head.

Yes, it is all hypothetical and by pure-brain-logic he should stay. Said that, I actually would not be too much surprised when he could return to M-Sport. There are many layers of relationships there.

[deephouse]

Let's be honest, do you all really believe that Ogier will leave? Even if he get offers from Hyundai or Toyota or Citroen. In the past he has prove that he is constantly playing mind games with all involved in this sport. He is the king of doing that and he is still pretty much competitive everywhere and in every car. It would be stupid to leave even for him. I don't thinks so and I will not be surprised after 2020 season that he will sign another contract.

[Päss1928]

Let's be honest, do you all really believe that Ogier will leave? Even if he get offers from Hyundai or Toyota or Citroen. In the past he has prove that he is constantly playing mind games with all involved in this sport. He is the king of doing that and he is still pretty much competitive everywhere and in every car. It would be stupid to leave even for him. I don't thinks so and I will not be surprised after 2020 season that he will sign another contract.

Agreed. He's not getting too many offers from teams so he creates another offer "from his wife" to retire, just to raise his price which is smart. Don't think he'll be leaving and who knows what manufacturers might join and pay him tons when the hybrids come.

[deephouse]

Agreed. He's not getting too many offers from teams so he creates another offer "from his wife" to retire, just to raise his price which is smart. Don't think he'll be leaving and who knows what manufacturers might join and pay him tons when the hybrids come.

And hybrids on the horizon, he will surely want to try them too.

[AnttiL]

One thing that we should remember is that Abu Dhabi hinted at a return to WRC in 2020. Maybe they will take their money bags to M-Sport to secure a proper 1st driver? Would there be a clash of sponsorships with Red Bull, or does Citroen even need extra backing anymore?

[AnttiL]

And hybrids on the horizon, he will surely want to try them too.

I think he already said at a press conference that he doesn't care about how the hybrids will become because he's already retired when they are used.


Let's be honest, do you all really believe that Ogier will leave?

I wouldn't believe for a minute. He drives next season with Citroen and then retires. Period.

[wrc2017]

I think he already said at a press conference that he doesn't care about how the hybrids will become because he's already retired when they are used.



I wouldn't believe for a minute. He drives next season with Citroen and then retires. Period.
He is only in it to win it. If he can't win, and get pummelled into 3rd place, 70-80 point behind Tanak this year, and there is no progress with C3, he will not do next year.. No way.

[deephouse]

Does Citroen even need extra backing anymore?

Even with redbull backing they run only two cars with full works team. If Abu Dhabi would come back to Citroen I bet they still wouldn't include the third car. And I know they are not aiming for manufacturer championship but it's not fair to the others. FIA should write down they must enter with minimum three cars. Citroen will ruin another two seats at Toyota and Hyundai with their thinking so everyone will run only two cars per event.

[deephouse]

He is only in it to win it. If he can't win, and get pummelled into 3rd place, 70-80 point behind Tanak this year, and there is no progress with C3, he will not do next year.. No way.

Rossi pretty much sells himself year after year and not win the titles. He said as long he will be competitive he could do this. Or is it that this frenchie is too proud that he won't admit that is he or nobody.

[AnttiL]

Citroen will ruin another two seats at Toyota and Hyundai with their thinking so everyone will run only two cars per event.

I think it's quite clear that Toyota and Hyundai will keep running three cars every event because they are interested in the manufacturers title.

[Mirek]

Rossi pretty much sells himself year after year and not win the titles. He said as long he will be competitive he could do this. Or is it that this frenchie is too proud that he won't admit that is he or nobody.

Every person is unique and what applies to one does not automatically apply to the other. If Ogier decides to stop I can fully understand it.

[Francis44]

Ogier's ultimate motivation to keep going was to beat Loeb's consecutive 9 championship run.

As things are going, I doubt we will see him at any team next year.

[Ljuke]

Was it though ? Did he say it / imply at some point during his career ? (Seriously asking).

[Andre Oliveira]

Sordo and Evans in Tommi’s radar?
Ogier and Citröen out?
5 year deal to Kalle in M-Sport?

https://www.sport.delfi.ee/wrc/article.php?id=87233825

[Andre Oliveira]

Adamo wants more coffee budget. Talks with Martin.

https://www.sport.delfi.ee/wrc/article.php?id=87242211

[meh]

About delfi.ee links - they are sponsors for Tänak, but mostly they don't produce any content theirself. Usually there should be "original" article somewhere else and often meaning is somehow lost in translation.

Questions from "journalists" from delfi.ee are often really embarrassing and inadequate. Previously Markko Märtin and also Ott Tänak both ignored estonian "journalists" for that reason, now Ott is kind of forced to answer to those "questions" as they are sponsors. delfi is considered as "yellow newspaper" and for their income they produce a lot of "clickbaits".

[EstWRC]

yep they are awful, and those two links what Andre posted are both translation of autosport articles

[AnttiL]

Sordo and Evans in Tommi’s radar?
Ogier and Citröen out?
5 year deal to Kalle in M-Sport?

https://www.sport.delfi.ee/wrc/article.php?id=87233825

What is the original source for these? Not on Autosport

[cali]

What is the original source for these? Not on AutosportI would not really pay attention to what is written in Delfi. Piece of crap journalism.

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[AnttiL]

I would not really pay attention to what is written in Delfi. Piece of crap journalism.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

I was referring to what EstWRC posted

[Indreq]

Often when wrc+ journalists ask comments from driver or team manager then delfi produces clickbait article for every sentence they say. So 3 sentences = 3 articles. I wish Ott would get himself more reputable sponsors.

[dimviii]

He is only in it to win it. If he can't win, and get pummelled into 3rd place, 70-80 point behind Tanak this year, and there is no progress with C3, he will not do next year.. No way.
thats my opinion too.
The only if for me is,if we have other driver changes in teams,and there is a seat at a winning car.

[EstWRC]

What is the original source for these? Not on Autosport

well maybe this one was written by himself, but usually they take autosport ones, translate those and then what really pisses me off that they want money for it

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I notice Tanak said the Toyota 1-2-3 in Germany made no difference to his decision whether to go to stay.

Is he just playing hard-ball and making them sweat or would he really leave if he's not convinced Toyota have done enough ?

Much as I'd love him back at M-Sport, if I was him I wouldnt move. All cars have their reliabilty issues.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

On Ogier, I'm tending more towards those that think he could quit if he loses the 2019 Title and sees no real progress in the C3.

He's a pure winner - not being in real contention for the rally wins and titles hurts him badly.

[er88]

If Ogier was to simply just lose the championship in a close fought battle I dont think he'd leave. But as others have said, if by the end of the season he's miles off Tanak, and Citroen cant give him guarantees of when/if the car can be improved massively, then yeah I think he'll have a decision to make over whether 2020 in a citroen is worth it...

They've been working on aero improvements since December last year and still nothing, for example...!

[wrc2017]

I notice Tanak said the Toyota 1-2-3 in Germany made no difference to his decision whether to go to stay.

Is he just playing hard-ball and making them sweat or would he really leave if he's not convinced Toyota have done enough ?

Much as I'd love him back at M-Sport, if I was him I wouldnt move. All cars have their reliabilty issues.

He is just playing up any small issue with the reliability of Toyota, his main gripe.
Hyundai had gearbox issue
Ford with an electrical fault.
and Citroen... well its a Citroen.

[T16]

On Ogier, I'm tending more towards those that think he could quit if he loses the 2019 Title and sees no real progress in the C3.

He's a pure winner - not being in real contention for the rally wins and titles hurts him badly.

He could go to Hyundai or M-Sport, without doubt. Toyota possibly.
And I'm certain a man of his professionalism will have a get-out clause in his contract if he isn't in position 'X' at a certain point in the championship.

[AnttiL]

He could go to Hyundai or M-Sport, without doubt. Toyota possibly.


No way, already one foot out the door to retirement

[meh]

I notice Tanak said the Toyota 1-2-3 in Germany made no difference to his decision whether to go to stay.

Is he just playing hard-ball and making them sweat or would he really leave if he's not convinced Toyota have done enough ?

Much as I'd love him back at M-Sport, if I was him I wouldnt move. All cars have their reliabilty issues.

For me it seems more that decision is actually made or/and it's more paperwork/contract question.
rephrased quote: "In my head things are easier/more clear than on paper".

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDCp2udWkAYaD8Y?format=jpg&name=small

[AnttiL]

I guess that magazine has the same Jack Benyon penned article published already on Autosport Plus

[er88]

I guess that magazine has the same Jack Benyon penned article published already on Autosport PlusNo think the autosport plus article is different - although I'm sure will touch on the same things we already know. Would be great if someone has access to it and could post it though.

This article just gone up on autosport will be the one that's in motorsport news today I'm sure.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145605/msport-wants-ford-help-to-lure-tanak-from-toyota

[AnttiL]

The new Autosport article has only quotes from the Plus article

[meh]

The new Autosport article has only quotes from the Plus article

Or even only quotes from Mr Wilson interview for WRC+?

[EstWRC]

Belgian newspaper La Derniere Heure is writing that Hyundai is offering 5 million to Tänak but he (i suppose Märtin actually) wants 7 million. The dont know how much Toyota is offering.

i have no idea how trustworthy that newspaper is.

[mousti]

Belgian newspaper La Derniere Heure is writing that Hyundai is offering 5 million to Tänak but he (i suppose Märtin actually) wants 7 million. The dont know how much Toyota is offering.

i have no idea how trustworthy that newspaper is.If it's Olivier de Wilde, you can take it with a pinch of salt.

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[racerx1979]

Belgian newspaper La Derniere Heure is writing that Hyundai is offering 5 million to Tänak but he (i suppose Märtin actually) wants 7 million. The dont know how much Toyota is offering.

i have no idea how trustworthy that newspaper is.

Damn that's some coin, but Ott Tanak is unfreaking stoppable at this point. Dude is on fire. He can probably jump in current C3 WRC and win.

[cali]

Damn that's some coin, but Ott Tanak is unfreaking stoppable at this point. Dude is on fire. He can probably jump in current C3 WRC and win.I don't think so, the C3 too flawed for that

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[skarderud]

IF Tänak leaves Toyota, a weir decision have to say, and goes to Hyundai.
Then it is 6(7?) Drivers and 3 cars.
Loeb has a contract, but no one else?
Tänak and neuville full seasons, Loeb part time, sharing with who? Sordo? Or breen?
Mikkelsen and Sordo to Toyota or M-sport?

Heard that Toyota want to pay €2 mill to Tänak, then Hyundai can put €5-7 mill on the table.

That will shake up some things.

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[EstWRC]

Heard that Toyota want to pay €2 mill to Tänak, then Hyundai can put €5-7 mill on the table.



Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

what? they want to pay less than previous years?

[AnttiL]

what? they want to pay less than previous years?

The information I have is that Tänak's current salary is 1,5 millions

[AnttiL]

.
Loeb has a contract, but no one else?

Loeb and Neuville have contracts with Hyundai for next year

[EstWRC]

The information I have is that Tänak's current salary is 1,5 millions

i have other information :D

[Allez Andruet]

I guess the 1,5M€ would be Tänak's base salary? On the rate he's been winning rallies (and is more than likely to grab the title at the end of the year) he'll end up making few millions more maybe.

The following is highly speculative as for some reason I haven't been invited to the negotiations Tänak/Märtin/Mäkinen have had, but assuming the rumor of Tänak asking for 7M€ (base per anno) is true, I - as an employer - would cut the performance bonuses quite radically.

[AnttiL]

https://i.imgur.com/otQN2eQ.png

The first box shows the basic salaries, the second box the bonuses from wins.

From Miika Wuorela's Penkalla magazine.

Remember that Tänak's contract is from 2017 when he wasn't yet a championship contender. His value has increased considerably after that.

[tr4m]

I'm guessing the base salary is per year and 1,2 mil per win? Meaning he's racked up at least 7.5 mil already this season?

[AnttiL]

No, it says total bonuses before rally Finland.

EDIT: This would mean Tänak gets 400 000 from a win, Neuville 500 000 and Ogier a million.

[EstWRC]

Lappi and Mikkelsen salarys are so high?

[AnttiL]

Lappi and Mikkelsen salarys are so high?

Good manager?

[rallyfiend]

Good manager?

Who then takes half...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDCp2udWkAYaD8Y?format=jpg&name=small

According to the AR podcast, M-Sport are after Tanak (with Ford's help) as they are looking forward to the 2022 hybrid and then electric cars.

They have a reputation for their new cars being fast 'out of the box' which may tempt Tanak, plus M-Sport think Tanak is a great one to help develop the car afterwards.

[mknight]

Lappi and Mikkelsen salarys are so high?

Have to remember when they were signed.
Lappi got signed mid 2018 after he was clearly faster than Latvala whole first half of the season. So salary compared with Latvala (who was re-signed about at that point) as well as others is somewhat ok.

Mikkelsen got signed in 2017 either after Spain or GB, meaning right after he finished 2nd in Germany in C3 and then led Spain in his first day in the i20 and finished 4th in GB minutes ahead of Sordo/Paddon in same car. So at that point his value was quite high, matching this salary.

The biggest take there is how little money Evans gets, but again he was probably re-signed at end of last year when only good result was one podium from Spain and people wondering if he will continue at all.

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen got signed in 2017 either after Spain or GB, meaning right after he finished 2nd in Germany in C3 and then led Spain in his first day in the i20 and finished 4th in GB minutes ahead of Sordo/Paddon in same car. So at that point his value was quite high, matching this salary.



I thought they signed him already before Spain for two years

[mknight]

Yes after digging back it was before Spain.
So after Germany where he was 2nd ahead of Ogier and much faster than Meeke in same car.

[AnttiL]

According to the AR podcast, M-Sport are after Tanak (with Ford's help) as they are looking forward to the 2022 hybrid and then electric cars.

They have a reputation for their new cars being fast 'out of the box' which may tempt Tanak, plus M-Sport think Tanak is a great one to help develop the car afterwards.

Jack Benyon wrote the articles in Autosport and Motorsport News (he was stepping in for David Evans as the main British journo for this rally) and he also said the same comment in the Absolute Rally podcast. Good to acknowledge that all these three sources are actually the one same source.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Julian Porter said on the new WRC pod that Tanak's next contract could be his last. He doesnt see Tanak continuing for years and years and one more 2-3 year deal could be it for him. And he thinks money isnt a big factor for him anymore.

If so its a really, really big decision for him to get right.

[Tarmop]

Pure speculation i believe.

[KKS]

For what reason it could be last contract for Tanak? He tired-up in rallying and want more time with kids and other speculative stuff?
I thought as you passioned in rally - u would drive as long as you competitive.

[meh]

For what reason it could be last contract for Tanak? He tired-up in rallying and want more time with kids and other speculative stuff?
I thought as you passioned in rally - u would drive as long as you competitive.

I haven't heard him talking about retirement or stop rallying any time soon. But you can not underestimate family priority - it's a clear factor. For example Hirvonen - wanted to be more time with boys and he was still happy to report his happy family life previously in WRC+ live studio (whenever it was).

[EstWRC]

yes, he hasnt talked about it on inernational media but in the beginning of the year, many interviews on estonian media he said soon the kids need him more than ever and he isnt planning to hang around forever in the series, sayin hed like to drive for couple of more years.

At one point he had said that on many interviews that i already thought this year will be his last but then, i think it was on autosport interview where he said he isnt stopping if he wins the title.

In his movie he says he considers his career fail if he doesnt win a title. The guy is an absolute maximalist and his determination is just unbelievable. You have to see the movie to understand it better and i hope you can see it soon.

[AnttiL]

Tänak also turns 32 this year. After a three year contract he would be 35, which is a quite high age for current rally drivers.

[er88]

Tanak/Ogier etc could win titles or challenge for them into their early 40s. Shame they both don't want to stay that long

[Got Mail]

Tanak/Ogier etc could win titles or challenge for them into their early 40s. Shame they both don't want to stay that long

Personally, I would prefer them to move on and let some youngsters progress.

[Kradovech]

Personally, I would prefer them to move on and let some youngsters progress.
I would even more prefer for a youngster to raise to their level in the upcoming years and push them of the throne.

[MentalParadox]

Tänak retiring? Huh? I always saw him as a young guy. He's only just started getting good. WRC has a fundamental problem if its best drivers can't be bothered to stick around.

[Allez Andruet]

WRC has a fundamental problem if its best drivers can't be bothered to stick around.

Looking at the current field it's quite hard to see that as an issue in WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak may be happy once he's achieved the WDC and defended it. I certainly dont see that he would want to attempt to match the Seb's in the number WDC wins.

He also has his OT Racing team and could be satisfied running that and helping others to make the WRC...

[er88]

I still see Tanak in the wrc for another 4/5yrs. Probably two more contracts

[Allez Andruet]

And what is often lost in this discussion, is that it's one thing to talk about retirement and completely different thing to actually do it. In all sports, the greats often talk about it ("I'm gonna walk out before I'm 30"), but not that many actually walk the walk.

[TypeR]

What the dmack you are talking about him retiring? :D once he gets his first WDC, its time to earn money and secure his future..
if 2nd or 3rd WDC comes, it good, but it doesn't really make any difference if you are 2, 3 or 4 times WDC..
It's basically impossible to reach Loeb's achievement and at the end rallying may be fun and awesome to watch, but it is still a job to do and if we are talking about salaries that are between 5-10mil euros, then at the end of the day, you have to use that chance and secure your future

[Tarmop]

He is already doing that...being a co-owner of MM-Motorsport is one example. Can`t compare with family-time. Although unless he says it himself, pure speculation.

[chunder27]

Ogier has been full time for a very pong time now, and until you have done all the travelling, testing, recce notes, PR appearances etc you cannot possibly know what it takes out of you, your personal life, relationships etc.

How Loeb did it for so long I have no idea, .

For me Ogier might do another year after 2020 if they can't fix the car, and then for me he is the best, Loeb won it in a car that was always designed round him, Ogier to win it in three types of car is simply a bigger achievement against more competition, if he can do it.

Quite frankly, even to so what he has done already edges it for me.

Tanak retiring, pure nonsense!! He might move but would be daft to just yet. But he does seem rather perplexed byt he fame, the interest, seems a quiet man, no interested in anything other than driving, unlike most top line drivers.

[AnttiL]

I don't think anyone is claiming Tänak would retire now. He just might be now looking for a contract with the team that he will drive with until his retirement.

[Kradovech]

To me it seems that in Tänak's interest is to sign a short contract, rather than a long one. He is clearly one of the fastest drivers right now, so it is very likely he will be able to negotiate good terms next year as well. It is completely opposite situation compared to what he was facing 2 years ago - right now it is the team's interest to sign him for as long as possible.

In his place I would sign Toyota for 1 year. Right now Toyota is working for him - despite the lottery factor due to unreliability he has a considerable lead. A longterm commitment with unreliable car would not be smart however. I would give them 12 months to try and sort it out and then re-evaluate the situation

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/DaniSordo/status/1168277880440328192

Sordo says "see you next year in Cordoba"

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The other aspect is the new Regs from 2022. Who knows how Tanak might feel about driving the new hybrid cars or which team will be the best to make and develop them. It could be his ideal stepping off point.

[wia5958]

Could we do a pickems in 2020 for who is going to be driving for Hyundai each round 😋

[deephouse]

You have a lot of drivers to pick from. Like hundreds...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport believes its current driver Teemu Suninen can mature into as strong a #WRC contender as points leader Ott Tanak.
https://t.co/6nONq1NPmx

Suninen to stay at M-Sport in 2020 seems pretty definite.

[AnttiL]

M-Sport believes its current driver Teemu Suninen can mature into as strong a #WRC contender as points leader Ott Tanak.
https://t.co/6nONq1NPmx

Suninen to stay at M-Sport in 2020 seems pretty definite.

Or he's trying to sell Suninen into other teams, with a share of the salary in mind?

[rallyfiend]

https://twitter.com/DaniSordo/status/1168277880440328192

Sordo says "see you next year in Cordoba"

Maybe he means the one in his native Spain?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Or he's trying to sell Suninen into other teams, with a share of the salary in mind?

Explain how that would work ?

[T16]

Explain how that would work ?
I think a few drivers have (or had) it in their contracts that if a team gives them the initial leg up into the championship, that team gets a percentage of their future earnings.
I may be wrong, but I’m sure Latvala and Tanak have gone through that process.

[AnttiL]

Explain how that would work ?

Normally driving with M-Sport would require bringing money in. But if the team wants to invest in the driver, they let him drive without bringing the money, but at the same time they make a deal that when the driver gets in a factory team and gets paid, a part of the salary goes to M-Sport, to pay back the investment.

But this is all speculation, whether this kind of deals even exist.

[rallyfiend]

Explain how that would work ?

It's well known that drivers that Malcolm invests in then have to pay that back out of future earnings.

Latvala, Tanak (now), Neuville (still), Evans (if he leaves) all pay back.

[Allez Andruet]

For sure such deals exist. Basically that's just like having a co-management contract, where in addition to paying e.g Jouhki a fee from your salary you also cut off a percentage to Malcolm/M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

More of that "marketing talk", now for Elfyn as well

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145779/msport-would-be-crazy-to-drop-evans-or-suninen

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Normally driving with M-Sport would require bringing money in. But if the team wants to invest in the driver, they let him drive without bringing the money, but at the same time they make a deal that when the driver gets in a factory team and gets paid, a part of the salary goes to M-Sport, to pay back the investment.


I knew this, I just didnt get how you had phrased it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Elfyn and Teemu will form part of the team, for sure," Wilson told Autosport.

"We've made big investments in both of them so it would be crazy to let someone else get that benefit."

So MW is crazy then Antti ?

[T16]

"Elfyn and Teemu will form part of the team, for sure," Wilson told Autosport.

"We've made big investments in both of them so it would be crazy to let someone else get that benefit."

So MW is crazy then Antti ?

Same article: "If Ott's not here the intention would be that they both form part of the team moving forward."

You’re being selective in your quotations Eddie.
The truth is, nobody is signed yet. Wilson wants Tanak and reading the Autosport article, fully, indicates that Suninen or Evans may go if Tanak arrives. Wilson will do whatever he can to generate the funds to get Tanak onboard and by talking up Suninen and Evens, he potentially increases their value to other teams, which will mean M-Sport get more revenue through salary pay-back.
Nothing set in stone yet, not until contracts are signed, so I wouldn't be so definite in claiming they are going to stay at M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

It’s Wilson’s games. Just like he said at the end of last year that they cannot continue in 2019. And just like Hyundai plays games by ”being interested in Tänak”

[pantealex]

Probaly no-one will sign before Tänak, if he leave TGR there is one space open ...

Kalle is not option for TGR 1st driver.

[Rally Power]

It’s Wilson’s games. Just like he said at the end of last year that they cannot continue in 2019. And just like Hyundai plays games by ”being interested in Tänak”

Yep; despite team managers alleged will to get driver A or B, most likely the only major line-up change will be Meeke or Latavala replacement by Rovanpera.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M.Wilson doesnt need to 'talk-up' Evans or Suninen. I'm sure they could both find seats one way or another if they were to be surplus to requirements at M-Sport.

[Tarmop]

You need to remind/read about the principals of economy....

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/vahvoja-viitteita-ott-tanakin-tulevaisuudesta-kaksi-tallipaallikkoa-kaytannossa-vetaytyi-jahdista/

Adamo stopped negotiating with Tänak, M-Sport don’t want to risk everything on one driver. Seems it’s Toyota for him

[mknight]

The more precise citation from that article would be "MSport hasn't found money for Tanak".

If that is the case then the big question with regards to Msport are:
- will they try to aim for any championship? Imo they could have a decent shot at manu title, but they would need to pay at least one established driver (Latvala/Mikkelsen/Meeke in about that order of probability)
- if they stay in "money making" mode will Evans leave for some decent salary at Toyota or Hyundai?

[Allez Andruet]

The more precise citation from that article would be "MSport hasn't found money for Tanak".

Millener actually says in the story that they don't want to end up in Ogier-esque situation again, where the whole business of M-Sport is on the shoulders of one single driver. Luring Tänak out from Toyota would probably require replicating that kind of deal.

[AnttiL]

Tänak also said his situation with Toyota is still open. I wonder if those decisions affect his Toyota decisions. Now basically Tänak doesn't have anywhere else to go so maybe he must compromise his salary?

[EstWRC]

Dont believe everything he says :) (contract wise)

[Allez Andruet]

I would assume it's prerequisite in every contract Tommi makes, that the other party must refrain from speaking anything meaningful when in contact with media.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006235844.html

Finnish media IS reporting that Tänak is about to land a monster deal with Toyota. It is understood that the biggest obstacle has not been money, but Tänak's demand of clear number one position in the team for next year, which Mäkinen has traditionally been reluctant to give to any driver. Bunch of other things as well, but unfortunately I have no time to write longer.

In the article Jouhki also says that Latvala's situation "is not looking bad". Whatever that means.

[wrc2017]

The more precise citation from that article would be "MSport hasn't found money for Tanak".

If that is the case then the big question with regards to Msport are:
- will they try to aim for any championship? Imo they could have a decent shot at manu title, but they would need to pay at least one established driver (Latvala/Mikkelsen/Meeke in about that order of probability)
- if they stay in "money making" mode will Evans leave for some decent salary at Toyota or Hyundai?
You have absolutely NO idea.. Lol

[wrc2017]

Adamo realises hes been played
Wilson and Tanaks plan coming together, and he stays at Toyota..
You guys... Reads my posts from 3 months back

[AnttiL]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006235844.html

Finnish media IS reporting that Tänak is about to land a monster deal with Toyota. It is understood that the biggest obstacle has not been money, but Tänak's demand of clear number one position in the team for next year, which Mäkinen has traditionally been reluctant to give to any driver. Bunch of other things as well, but unfortunately I have no time to write longer.

In the article Jouhki also says that Latvala's situation "is not looking bad". Whatever that means.

Also says that Tänak's salary could be 5-10 million, in case he keeps winning rallies and earning more bonuses. And that Tänak has been "shopping around the service park", trying to find out what kind of things he could get black on white from other teams. Not just money, but other issues.

Regarding Tänak's demand of number one position, you can see clearly why he could have never gone to Hyundai.

[mknight]

Regarding Tänak's demand of number one position, you can see clearly why he could have never gone to Hyundai.

Imo it's not so much about him demanding preferential treatment before the start of the season or getting better parts. But more about not having own teammates chase him for seconds in lead and crashing (like both did in Finland) or taking points off him in numerous power stages.
But sure at Hyundai he would never be n1 until he consistently beat Neuville in a few rallies.

[AnttiL]

Autosport article with the same content as rallit.fi in Finnish last night

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145935/tanak-hyundai-talks-collapse-set-for-toyota

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If money isnt the big issue, well Tanak would definitely be the No. 1 at M-Sport...

[AnttiL]

If money isnt the big issue, well Tanak would definitely be the No. 1 at M-Sport...

You understood that wrong. The point of that statement is that Toyota has no problem paying what Tänak wants, but Tänak wants other things than just money (such as no1 driver position). Money was likely an issue with Hyundai and M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

Adamo just said on All Live that Loeb will do six rallies next year.

[mknight]

well Loeb said that himself multiple times this year as well that he wants to do 6, so no big surprise. Wonder if he might go for more gravel rounds if he doesn't like the tarmac car, guess we'll see after Spain.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You understood that wrong. The point of that statement is that Toyota has no problem paying what Tänak wants, but Tänak wants other things than just money (such as no1 driver position). Money was likely an issue with Hyundai and M-Sport.

I understood. Tanak has had an acceptable financial offer from Toyota but wants other things.

If M-Sport (M.Wilson) could afford Ogier and would've kept him this year... then they can use that salary now to afford Tanak. If they couldnt afford him then they wouldnt be in for him.

[Tarmop]

Salary...what about everything else that makes the car a title-winner? That takes more money...and that is why Ogier decided like he decided. Just look at what and how Toyota is building/testing all the time. Owning a "private" track they can in addition use for SWE and FIN preparations...having it just a small chopper flight away from his family, with engineers a small car drive away from his family...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC.com

There was plenty of speculation in Turkey about Tänak’s future and when he will confirm his employer for next season. He made his intentions clear after the event, pointing out that he’s not involved in that process and his focus remains on the next three rallies.

He added: “I have been focused all season on this championship and that doesn’t change. I want to finish this year in the perfect way, but I guess we know this will come quite hard to win it.

“There are people in the background who are working for me and for next year and, obviously, it’s important to get these things fixed. There’s really not much for me to do in that direction, but I won’t be distracted by any of this. People know what I want for next year, but, for me, I focus on Wales.”

[CWJ]

say hey how

[AnttiL]

What does it say about 2020 seats?

[AnttiL]

So it's the same every year...the top driver without contract says "I want my contract to be confirmed earlier than usually"....and then we hear nothing until late autumn

[mknight]

That doesn't mean most drivers haven't been signed already (like last year with Latvala and Lappi) . Just that the info doesn't get out.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makisen-wrc-tiimin-ja-tahtikuljettaja-tanakin-valilla-yha-vaantoa/

Tänak saying again contract things are difficult and everything is open, Mäkinen saying it's about little things.

[mknight]

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makisen-wrc-tiimin-ja-tahtikuljettaja-tanakin-valilla-yha-vaantoa/

Tänak saying again contract things are difficult and everything is open, Mäkinen saying it's about little things.

Little things like car stopping by itself between the stages.

[Allez Andruet]

Little things like car stopping by itself between the stages.

Or Tänak demanding the number one position in team hierarchy for the coming years. Not an outrageous demand by any means (especially as Tänak's main title rivals have such in their teams), but might be a bitter pill for Tommi to swallow.

[Oliverk]

Or Tänak demanding the number one position in team hierarchy for the coming years. Not an outrageous demand by any means (especially as Tänak's main title rivals have such in their teams), but might be a bitter pill for Tommi to swallow.
He better start swallowing soon and hire decent number 2 in same time also.

[Allez Andruet]

He better start swallowing soon and hire decent number 2 in same time also.

He's got arguably the fastest car on the service park and there's bunch of drivers without a contract for next year. I'm sure he'll eventually prevail in one way or another.

[EstWRC]

Hyundai Motorsport
@HMSGOfficial

#WRC Seven up for #Sordo!
We’re pleased to confirm that @DaniSordo will remain with our @OfficialWRC team for the 2020 season.
Read all about here �� https://t.co/PYyPLn9bLZ?amp=1

[Allez Andruet]

I wonder if Neuville will again be the only Hyundai driver to do all rounds... :rolleyes:

[RS]

Was Loeb signed on a one year deal? Sharing third car with Sordo again sounds likely.

Edit: according to Autosport Loeb has a deal until the end of next season and will share the car with Sordo. Second seat is between Mikkelsen and Breen unless Hyundai can get Tanak.

[deephouse]

Was Loeb signed on a one year deal? Sharing third car with Sordo again sounds likely.

Edit: according to Autosport Loeb has a deal until the end of next season and will share the car with Sordo. Second seat is between Mikkelsen and Breen unless Hyundai can get Tanak.

It's not necessary to be either mikkelsen or breen, they need a person or two to instant deliver result. not adapting for like 5 rallies or so.

[rallyfiend]

Was Loeb signed on a one year deal? Sharing third car with Sordo again sounds likely.

Edit: according to Autosport Loeb has a deal until the end of next season and will share the car with Sordo. Second seat is between Mikkelsen and Breen unless Hyundai can get Tanak.

There are other drivers that are uncontracted that would be better / safer options than MIK and BRE...

[Allez Andruet]

Sordo and Loeb haven't exactly shared the car this year either. And even though Australia is gone, there's still the issue with few rallies (Finland, likely Sweden, maybe NZ) that neither one wants to do. Mikkelsen most likely isn't satisfied with any partial program - unlike Breen. Does Adamo want to keep Mikkelsen "at all cost" (meaning giving him a full season)? Looking at the standings one could assume he wants, but practice has shown otherwise. Quite a puzzle I would say.

[mknight]

There are other drivers that are uncontracted that would be better / safer options than MIK and BRE...

Do tell who. I can only see Evans. But I am very unsure how much "safer" he is given that he has never driven anything else than Fiesta WRC at top level. Latvala or Meeke might be better options when stars align, but are certainly not safer.


Sordo and Loeb haven't exactly shared the car this year either. And even though Australia is gone, there's still the issue with few rallies (Finland, likely Sweden, maybe NZ) that neither one wants to do. Mikkelsen most likely isn't satisfied with any partial program - unlike Breen. Does Adamo want to keep Mikkelsen "at all cost" (meaning giving him a full season)? Looking at the standings one could assume he wants, but practice has shown otherwise. Quite a puzzle I would say.

Clearly that's the decision point here.
Mikkelsen would not want to drive part time and certainly would not want to find out 2 weeks before a rally that he is not going. Similarly he would want changes/testing of the tarmac car, not like it has been so far.
Adamo with Loeb and Sordo singed for part season, would prefer same situation as this year with Mikkelsen (or Breen) doing just some rallies.

From the (limited) comparison this year, Mikkelsen is the better option result wise. So the question is if Mikkelsen has other options and can push for full season and how much Adamo wants him over Breen (or someone else).

[Eli]

Silly season getting tighter: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/146481/toyota-likely-to-pick-meeke-over-latvala-for-2020

[Allez Andruet]

Silly season getting tighter: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/146481/toyota-likely-to-pick-meeke-over-latvala-for-2020

It's really difficult to judge because it's Tommi. All these

"I hope we can find something else for Jari-Matti," said Makinen.
"If we open the view, we could find something else for him, maybe, maybe.
"In the overall project we have different areas, maybe there could be something."

don't necessarily mean anything. Tommi's never saying anything anyway and especially when he's somewhat out of his comfort zone speaking in English, it's even harder to draw any conclusion whatsoever.

But that was interesting that he claimed Kalle had been faster than Lappi and Suninen when he tested the early version of Yaris WRC back in 2016.

[deephouse]

It sounds like he will be downgraded to R5 class just to win in a title with it and boost sales. If it will be coming. They hide anything about that like secret government test facilities.

[Allez Andruet]

It sounds like he will be downgraded to R5 class just to win in a title with it and boost sales. If it will be coming. They hide anything about that like secret government test facilities.

The R5 has been rumored about for a long time and Mäkinen confirmed it was coming at some point. One would think that anything Tommi does confirm must be almost ready to race but I'm not so sure about it in this case. One thing's for sure: Latvala is way too good to be competing in any of the R5's and I think he knows it himself as well.

[steve.mandzij]

The R5 has been rumored about for a long time and Mäkinen confirmed it was coming at some point. One would think that anything Tommi does confirm must be almost ready to race but I'm not so sure about it in this case. One thing's for sure: Latvala is way too good to be competing in any of the R5's and I think he knows it himself as well.Not only is he far too good for the lower tiers, his driving style wouldn't fit in with the cleaner R5s, and it would be a disgrace for his objectively monumental career to fizzle out in WRC2.

[deephouse]

Then I don't see any other option than sharing a drive with Rovanpera\Meeke or throw him out of the team and he is not their problem anymore.

[er88]

Sordo and Loeb 'sharing' again causes the same problems as has been mentioned. Neither will want to do Sweden, Finland and GB, and Loeb also wont want to do Germany if he hasn't wanted to do it the last two years when it's been run in august.

So instantly that means either Mikkelsen is brought into the rotation, and Andreas/Loeb/Sordo rotate between two seats. Or they give Breen a partial programme of Sweden, Finland, GB, Germany + maybe another event or two, and 4 drivers rotate between two seats.

Mikkelsen won't want to do a partial season but I don't think he has any other options for leverage. Throughout the season Adamo has never seemed too keen on him either, and doesnt have total trust. Rotating drivers works because Mikkelsen, Sordo, Loeb benefit from road position, but it would also be nice for the championship if Hyundai had two fulltime drivers who they actually could commit to.

[deephouse]

Well there is Paddon and Ostberg ho could jump in also. Why not having 7 man team...

[Kradovech]

What is the deal with Rovanperä joining Toyota, I though he was going to the army, no? Or will he be joining mid season? That would leave half a year for Latvala to prove himself. Or is Kalle only going to do the basic training in army? Maybe one of the finns here can shed a little light on this.

[deephouse]

What is the deal with Rovanperä joining Toyota, I though he was going to the army, no? Or will he be joining mid season? That would leave half a year for Latvala to prove himself. Or is Kalle only going to do the basic training in army? Maybe one of the finns here can shed a little light on this.

He thinks he is ready for WRC machinery and Makinen thinks that too. And Skoda leaving it's the perfect timing to snatch him before anyone else get him.

[Allez Andruet]

What is the deal with Rovanperä joining Toyota, I though he was going to the army, no? Or will he be joining mid season? That would leave half a year for Latvala to prove himself. Or is Kalle only going to do the basic training in army? Maybe one of the finns here can shed a little light on this.

The military service won't be an issue. He'll be out in six months and basically can participate in all the rallies he wants in the meantime. It's quite common for Finnish athletes to join the army and still compete in their respective sports.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006267458.html

...aaaaaand here we go again with Tommi, part 572364. Now he says he wasn't actually talking about any driver selections in the Autosport story published earlier today and that JML and Meeke are actually "even" when it comes to staying at TGR for 2020. Mäkinen goes on to say that "there are also other drivers on the market" and "we will carefully think what we're going to do (regarding the drivers)".

[mknight]

Tommi is great at creating confusion that's for sure. Just like D. Evans is great at creating stores based on rumors.

[er88]

You just have to listen to Makinen's quotes, and forget about the text/ speculation/ rumours around them (whether that's D.Evans or a Finnish/ Estonian reporter giving us their view).

I think Makinen just rambles on and what he says initially is him speaking his mind, but then for the following week after that he's in damage control mode as he realises what he's said could impact his current drivers form/mentality for the rest of the season.

I know he struggles with English but he does speak too openly at times, and he has done repeatedly about Latvala and his deficiencies for a while. I like how he's open and honest, but from a teams POV I do think he should maybe have someone on hand who's more media savvy to at least help control his mouth a little or give him a few pointers. Whenever I see a Tommi interview or he's on WRC+ I'm waiting for a few telling quotes as he simply can't help himself :D

To say Tanak, Meeke and Kalle is the "dream" for next year - even if said in a jokey way - is potentially really detrimental to his own teams chances for the last two events. I mean how is Jari (who is already in a bad place) going to react to that?

[stefanvv]

You just have to listen to Makinen's quotes, and forget about the text/ speculation/ rumours around them (whether that's D.Evans or a Finnish/ Estonian reporter giving us their view).

I think Makinen just rambles on and what he says initially is him speaking his mind, but then for the following week after that he's in damage control mode as he realises what he's said could impact his current drivers form/mentality for the rest of the season.

I know he struggles with English but he does speak too openly at times, and he has done repeatedly about Latvala and his deficiencies for a while. I like how he's open and honest, but from a teams POV I do think he should maybe have someone on hand who's more media savvy to at least help control his mouth a little or give him a few pointers. Whenever I see a Tommi interview or he's on WRC+ I'm waiting for a few telling quotes as he simply can't help himself :D

To say Tanak, Meeke and Kalle is the "dream" for next year - even if said in a jokey way - is potentially really detrimental to his own teams chances for the last two events. I mean how is Jari (who is already in a bad place) going to react to that?

He isn't baby and can do his job properly, does he? Probably it's no secret for him Makinen's attitude for him either, not for the last few days anyway. On the other hand Makinen's "honesty" is spicing the wrc circus, it could be well playing with the media.

[er88]

He isn't baby and can do his job properly, does he? Probably it's no secret for him Makinen's attitude for him either, not for the last few days anyway. On the other hand Makinen's "honesty" is spicing the wrc circus, it could be well playing with the media.Ofcourse he can do his overall job properly, which is building and managing a team to compete for both titles.

But he clearly gets himself in difficulty by running his mouth, as he's come out twice now since the weekend trying to deny/ play down actual quotes he's made to the press (first the Estonian media/ and 2nd to David Evans).

As I was saying, it's good for us and silly season, but perhaps not the best for Jari to hear (who is one of the most fragile drivers mentally the wrc has ever seen). Tommi needs him for the last two events at least.

[mknight]

Tänak-Meeke-Rovanpera looks rather risky when it comes to manu points though and imo it's not very good idea to put Rovanpera under pressure to score manu points in first year either.

[er88]

Tänak-Meeke-Rovanpera looks rather risky when it comes to manu points though and imo it's not very good idea to put Rovanpera under pressure to score manu points in first year either.I agree, Toyota should put him in a 4th car for 10 or so rounds (and let Katsuta do 3/4 events including Japan). They can afford to do it, and the Japanese would get to keep Latvala in the team for another year and let Kalle develop without pressure.

[pantealex]

So many of you think that Kalle is only new driver joining Toyota ?

[Katvala]

Not unless it's stated as a fact by Mäkinen that someone is indeed leaving the team

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

I had been saying for last 4 months or so that I think Evans will go to Toyota. Just guessing thought.

[EstWRC]

I had been saying for last 4 months or so that I think Evans will go to Toyota. Just guessing thought.

i HOPE the same.

[skarderud]

Lots of drivers are free of contracts, and most of them would be happy with a seat in the yaris i presume.

Mads Østberg says he is talking to several teams , his plan was to develop the C3 R5 this season and then back to WRC in 2020, maybe some plans of mixed R5 and WRC next year, as i understand.

Is it Citröen, with 3 cars in 2020?
Toyota with new R5 and some WRC?
Hyundai, with develop the R5 and the 3 gravelrallies noone want to do?
Ford?

Lets say Tänak stays in Toyota, Meeke 2.driver, Katsuta and Rovanpäre share the 3rd car, or those 2 in a juniorteam and Østberg in the 3rd maincar? Or Mikkelsen? Or Evans? Or Latvala?:)

Hyundai, they need a decent development driver, both to the R5 but definately the WRC. Weird Loeb can't get the I20 decent, maybe they need a new car with a different philosophy? Its "built" to Neuville, but thats clearly don't work, neighter to him or the others.
Is it arrogant engineers in Hyundai, like in Subaru, or is Neuville really bad to develop cars? Tip to Adamo: use Loeb and Sordo as much you can, Neuville will never be WDC as it is now.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Allez Andruet]

Is it Citröen, with 3 cars in 2020?
Toyota with new R5 and some WRC?
Hyundai, with develop the R5 and the 3 gravelrallies noone want to do?
Ford?

Lets say Tänak stays in Toyota, Meeke 2.driver, Katsuta and Rovanpäre share the 3rd car, or those 2 in a juniorteam and Østberg in the 3rd maincar? Or Mikkelsen? Or Evans? Or Latvala?:)


I think there has been strong rumors about Citroen continuing with two cars in 2020. Toyota already has Hänninen for the R5 development (that was even confirmed by Mäkinen himself) and according to Grönholm Hyundai no longer has any development plans for their R5.

Another thing that has been confirmed by Mäkinen is that Katsuta won't be driving any of the three "main-TGR" cars.

[Oops!]

Where did you see that Gronholm quote? Link? Certainly isn't right.

[Allez Andruet]

Where did you see that Gronholm quote? Link? Certainly isn't right.
He said it in one of the Rally Finland shows on Finnish TV. The actual topic they were discussing about was Huttunen. I can try to find the exact quote later, the shows are hopefully still online on YLE's (Finnish National broadcasting company) streaming service Areena.

[AnttiL]

http://urheiluuutiset.com/gronholm-epatietoinen-huttusen-tulevaisuuden-suhteen-ei-vajota-synkkyyteen/

In here Grönholm says that the Hyundai R5 is like 100 kg more heavy than Skoda and that Hyundai doesn't develop or test the car and it's not a winner car.

[er88]

I think Ostberg will bring some budget and run a 3rd C3, "appearing" as a Citroen manufacturer driver. Hope that's the case anyway, because it would be nice to see a 3rd C3 on at least 6-8events. If the season is going well, they could then use Ostberg more often if they have a chance for the manufacturers title.

[Tarmop]

Wierd, Mr. Loeb himself has had an outing with the R5 i20, there was a news about some big development test for tarmac...

[mknight]

Maybe Gronholm was describing the situation up until now?

[AnttiL]

I think Ostberg will bring some budget and run a 3rd C3, "appearing" as a Citroen manufacturer driver. Hope that's the case anyway, because it would be nice to see a 3rd C3 on at least 6-8events. If the season is going well, they could then use Ostberg more often if they have a chance for the manufacturers title.

There's the "guest driver" factor. After this year with no WRC Manufacturer nominated starts means he can use Citroen's guest driver testing quota next year. Same that they've been doing with Camilli and Toyota doing with Hänninen and Hyundai with Huttunen.

[AnttiL]

Wierd, Mr. Loeb himself has had an outing with the R5 i20, there was a news about some big development test for tarmac...

Loeb drove the R5 on gravel, and tested also one day on gravel.

[Tarmop]

Yes, but...

Today (Tuesday, September 24) the first of four test days was held that Hyundai Motorsport planned to evaluate the effectiveness of the developments developed for the i20 in the R5 version. The start of this intense test program was Andrea Crugnola who traveled about 250 kilometers on the asphalt around Mazamet (south of France).

The driver from Varese worked closely with the engineers of the Korean company, focusing above all on the new suspensions that immediately appeared extremely fast and effective. What is the antechamber of an ongoing collaboration? For now, nothing is decided.

Certainly an excellent opportunity for Crugnola, which is not new to these types of activities anyway: already Citroen Racing and Renault Sport have involved it several times in the development tests of DS3 and Clio R3T in the past years. Now it's up to Craig Breen, who starting tomorrow will continue the work started by Italian.
https://www.rallyeslalom.com/crugnola-coinvolto-nei-test-di-sviluppo-della-hyundai-i20-r5/

[Japé]

It is a great injustice that Ostberg did not get a drive WRC this year and humiliating that he is considered to someone who should bringing budget. No one has been as fast with C3 R5 than him (also being reliable). His pace has been very close to Rovanpera Jr in many rallies and without numerous technical issues + participating to more rallies he would had been very close to WRC2 Pro title. I truly hope he gets WRC seat back for 2020.

What comes to Taka, pretty sure he will be doing a lot of rallies with WRC. Besides the manufacturing points, does it matter if it is official TGR car or private, main difference being the different sponsor stickers?

[AnttiL]

What comes to Taka, pretty sure he will be doing a lot of rallies with WRC. Besides the manufacturing points, does it matter if it is official TGR car or private, main difference being the different sponsor stickers?

I would imagine Toyota's sponsors are only paying for three top level drivers and either the team doesn't want to give them the extra exposure for free or they don't want to pay more or they don't want to be associated with a slower driver. But technically it's no difference, the car comes from the same workshop and is serviced by the same mechanics.

[PLuto]

No one has been as fast with C3 R5 than him (also being reliable).

Not true. Lukyanuk was also fast in ERC. Bonato in Monte and Corse in WRC. Pepe Lopez in Spain. Yohan Rossel in France.

[Andre Oliveira]

Fontes in Portugal

[the sniper]

Maybe Gronholm was describing the situation up until now?

I agree, maybe things have changed since then. While there's obviously some attractive pricing going on, the sudden mass take up of the I20 in the UK has surely got to indicate that there is some progress/promise there? If the thing was as poor as it seemed to be previously, I can't see how Tom Cave could have done so well with it in GB, given he was up against the Polo and new Fabia.

[deephouse]

He is just proving to HM that they made a mistake with picking Huttunen.

[AnttiL]

He is just proving to HM that they made a mistake with picking Huttunen.

Well, both Huttunen and Cave were third in the RC2 class in their home rallies this year.

[Allez Andruet]

He is just proving to HM that they made a mistake with picking Huttunen.

He was so damn slow in Sweden that Hyundai must have known by then it was mistake, right?

[NoName]

It is a great injustice that Ostberg did not get a drive WRC this year and humiliating that he is considered to someone who should bringing budget. No one has been as fast with C3 R5 than him (also being reliable). His pace has been very close to Rovanpera Jr in many rallies and without numerous technical issues + participating to more rallies he would had been very close to WRC2 Pro title. I truly hope he gets WRC seat back for 2020.

What comes to Taka, pretty sure he will be doing a lot of rallies with WRC. Besides the manufacturing points, does it matter if it is official TGR car or private, main difference being the different sponsor stickers?

In a norwegian rallypodcast. Ostberg said that in the begning of the season. He was just thinking doing one season in R5. But how the situation is now, He will most likely do one more.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai team boss Andrea Adamo says he is taking a "big picture" view of whether to keep Craig Breen for the 2020 #WRC season https://t.co/Pdzp7zTLCI

[meh]

Hyundai team boss Andrea Adamo says he is taking a "big picture" view of whether to keep Craig Breen for the 2020 #WRC season https://t.co/Pdzp7zTLCI

without paywall
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/breen-hyundai-2020-chances-mikkelsen/4556372/

edit: content is actually available from autosport.com also, if to mess a bit with developer tools or read source code :)

[mknight]

I see that as partly as Adamo keeping all his options open.

- He might still want Breen to do Australia
- He will for sure want to create as much "competition" for last seat as possible to lower the price he has to pay to whoever gets the drive
- Mikkelsen will definitely do Australia so he won't say whether he is out until after Australia

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11017296

Suninen likely to continue with M-Sport, says Jouhki

[dimviii]

4634/5000
Ott Tänak is rightly the most important piece of the World Rally Carriage market. The position holds, even if the World Cup does not yet secure its world championship in the second-last race of the season in Catalonia.

Manager Timo Jouhki knows exactly what position Jack is in - the king moves first, then it is the turn of the others.

- This is not very exceptional. The fastest driver is the most wanted, Jouhki recalls.

Thus, the drivers managed by Jouhk, for example, Jari-Matti Latvala will be assured of the future (you will move to another service) only after Today's decision. Of course, Jouhki himself has been in a situation where his protectors have frozen the negotiations of practically everyone else.

Now, one of these safeguards is for someone who feverishly wants to put an Estonian name on paper.
Twisting of the contract began already in the spring

Tommi Mäkinen's vengeance between Toyota and Today has been stretching from one rally to the next. Already in May, Tänak announced that he wanted a new agreement as soon as possible. At the time, M-Sport's boss Malcolm Wilson immediately stated that his main goal was to capture the British team today.

For the first time things had to be settled during the summer break of the World Cup, but by the time of the Finnish World Rally, speculation had only intensified. Even today, Estonian legend Markko Märtin, who is responsible for today's affairs, made sure that his visit to the stall of Toyota's biggest rival, Hyundai, was also quoted.
Malcolm Wilson and Markko Märtin at the premiere of the film Ott Tänak in Tallinn in April 2019.
Malcolm Wilson (left) said in May that he wants Markko Märtin's (right) protector back.

That is why Tänak has measured its value by getting contract deals from M-Sport and Hyundai. According to Toyota boss Mäkinen, Tänak is still negotiating a deal with the Japanese team.

- You never know for sure. It's been such a spin, Jouhki points out.

Today and Jouhki, who followed the long saga of Toyota's side, wonders how Tänak and his background have turned the deal around.

- Very non-orthodox activity, both from the driver and his so-called manager. It seems amazing how they handle things.
Today's claim is more than just a plush salary

One thing is quite certain in the rallying world. This applies to the value of the future agreement today. Estonians are expected to sign the most expensive contract in the history of the World Cup. Currently, record-breaking cardboard is burning in the pocket of six-time master Sebastien Ogier. Depending on various sources, Ogier's basic salary is estimated to be at least more than EUR 5 million.

Drivers' seasonal earnings are often more heavily focused on success bonuses than their basic salary. It is precisely the relationship between the two that may be one of the points of disagreement between Tänak and Toyota.

However, it is more likely that a pure salary debate will have some other terms in the contract that are not entirely in line with Toyota's views. Ogier, for example, has often had different clauses in his contracts to try to strengthen his position in the stable.
Ogier
Over the years, Sebastien Ogier has shown how to hold on to one's own worth.Tomi Hänninen

Only the imagination is the limit to the ways in which the driver can consolidate his position. The driver may require extra flights for his or her own expenses, or may require specialist in-house expertise to supply certain parts to the garage for tests. Of course, cost-accurate teams don't want to pay extra for overwhelming salary offsets. At the same time, the privileges of a single driver can influence the dynamics of the team - which, on the other hand, is precisely the purpose of the demanding driver.

- Ogier has been very straightforward in his negotiations, but apparently these guys weren't. Of course, that doesn't belong to me. All I can do is comment that it feels quite wonderful, Jouhki says.

One possibility, of course, is that Toyota and Tänak are shaking hands on the length of the contract. Existing cars will be replaced by new rules hybrid cars after the 2021 season.

According to Jouhk, at a general level, it is already possible to see how the preparation of hybrids affects contract negotiations.

- Yes, it has brought changes and will continue to do so. There are already stables that want to look at drivers for new cars.

- Drivers, on the other hand, already want to commit to such a team. Others want to see how power relationships change before they commit to anything.

Not everyone is expecting Today

However, the Estonian is not the only one who can still confuse the driver's guide. For the off-season, for example, is M-Sport's Elfyn Evans, who will surely be ready to move on if other teams show interest.

The Welshman has been one of the most steady drivers, though he has been disturbed by injuries that have required three recovery periods. As M-Sport is known to make only one-year contracts at a time, several years of cardboard might attract Evans.

On the other hand, it is very difficult for Evans to leave M-Sport behind. Camon Wilson, after giving the weak last year a new chance for the current season.
Chauffeur
Almost everyone has to wait for what Ott Tänak (center) does. Kris Meeke (left) is in the forefront of the extension agreement with Toyo. As Jari-Matti Latvala's map reader, Miikka Anttila (right) is in the same situation. In practice, only Citroen drivers don't have to be on their toes. Sebastien Ogier (second left) and Esapekka Lapland (second right) have contracts already concluded.Tomi Hänninen

However, Evans is not even here to challenge Today even in the driver market. So far, the only driver that has signed a contract this season has been Hyundai's Dani Sordo. The situation of the Spanish is different from that of the others, as he will only run special-purpose contracts in the season.

"Special drivers have always been fastest before that, as was the case with Sordo now," says Jouhki.

In spite of all this, Jouhkk has already made great progress with one driver. Teemu Suninen has agreed with M-Sport the basic principles of the extension agreement.
https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11017669

[mknight]

Joukhi with criticizm of another manager... starting to become a tradition. Last year it was Veiby (senior) , this year Martin.

One interesting point is that Evans might be in debt (moral if anything) to Wilson for not dropping him at the end of the terrible last season.

[AnttiL]

Joukhi with criticizm of another manager... starting to become a tradition. Last year it was Veiby (senior) , this year Martin.

One interesting point is that Evans might be in debt (moral if anything) to Wilson for not dropping him at the end of the terrible last season.

Maybe they also have the deal where Wilson will get his share if Evans gets a properly paying factory seat?

[wrc2017]

Joukki never mentioned Latvala once.

[AnttiL]

Joukki never mentioned Latvala once.

Yle has a different article from assumably the same interview which covers Latvala’s situation

They speculate whether Toyota would also start using driver rotation and if that would save Latvala’s 2020 seat

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11017160

[wrc2017]

Yle has a different article from assumably the same interview which covers Latvala’s situation

They speculate whether Toyota would also start using driver rotation and if that would save Latvala’s 2020 seat

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11017160

That was 3 days earlier.

[Allez Andruet]

That was 3 days earlier.

Still probably from the very same interview. It's not like Jouhki talks with YLE on a daily basis.

[wrc2017]

Still probably from the very same interview. It's not like Jouhki talks with YLE on a daily basis.

OK. Must be serialising the interview.. how stupid of me.