WRC Promotional event Shell Helix Rally Estonia

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gryazin fast again and spectacular to watch.

Solberg a bit steadier with having a good lead.

[mknight]

SS8 average 138.8 km/h

[EstWRC]

SS8 average 138.8 km/h

Thant’s stage the I mentioned before not believing what I saw.

Incredible

[Thousandlakes]

Long time I havent posted here anything. But have to say what a RALLY. Very fast and smooth roads. Many big jumps also. Everything what real rallyfan needs. Wrc tv is doing good job aswell. This rally belong to WRC calendar. Top level action.

And look at those two r5 youngsters. Just under 1.5sec/km slower than Tänak. Very Impressive. New Fiesta r5 still in progress.

Just watched Gryazins jump. That was something. Lucky escape :)

[Barreis]

Solberg jr is future

[Allez Andruet]

Alright, so can we all now agree that Tänak is the baddest man on the planet. Period. I'm starting to hope that instead of M-Sport or TGR he would switch to WRC2 just to keep the main class competitive. Finland will be absolute murder, mark my words.

And Solberg... I'm somewhat lost for words. Up until now he was just a son of ex-world champ who did rallies in funny places like Latvia and the US. But boy oh boy can he drive!

[Tarmop]

Not that i don`t agree....but lets wait for Rally Finland first, this is Tänak`s home-event and also Yaris` "second" home event.:)

Too bad, they did`t show trucks at all.

Oh, and mknight...

Apart from the obvious testing unknowns I think we see a repeat of what has been normal on most gravel rallies this year.

In first pass with smooth road Toyota's are much faster, followed by Fiestas, then on second pass with more rutted road (and more mechanical grip) it's much closer. Lappi even mentioned this already.

[mknight]

Alright, so can we all now agree that Tänak is the baddest man on the planet. Period. I'm starting to hope that instead of M-Sport or TGR he would switch to WRC2 just to keep the main class competitive. Finland will be absolute murder, mark my words.



We can definitely agree that you are good at exaggerating.

[Allez Andruet]

We can definitely agree that you are good at exaggerating.

I'll take that as a compliment.

[mknight]

Solberg jr is future

He is impressive here.

Then again this is the kind of roads he drives since starting with R5. WRC runs on many different road types. This is the first time I have seen his footage over more than a corner or two and it looks quite ragged to me. Some corners great but some with tons of corrections and all over the place.

Progress so far is good though (after not that impressive R2 career). Hope he keeps it up, but I am just tired of the constant "XY is the next champion" shouting and think it often is counter-productive as it quickly can get into the heads of those young guys. They have not won anything... until they actually win it.

[steve.mandzij]

With regards to Suninen, he has been much more impressive in WRC than he ever was in WRC2. I think his style doesn't suit the slower, cleaner R5 cars.

[mknight]

With regards to Suninen, he has been much more impressive in WRC than he ever was in WRC2. I think his style doesn't suit the slower, cleaner R5 cars.

Agree on the first part, dunno if it's the style but in WRC2 he was always kind of number 2-3 guy.

[AnttiL]

Also Suninen hasn't tested the new R5 Fiesta at all or been in the old R5 Fiesta in a long time

Suninen was also a lot more impressive in WRC2 when he drove a Skoda.

[mknight]

It's all good explanations. But as a sales promotion this event is just not working for MSport. Getting beaten by Polo and "old" Fabias.

[RS]

Yes, presumably they brought Suninen here instead of Greensmith or Camilli in order to give the car a strong debut.

[mknight]

Passats de Canto vid is up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zDN6mJ2g2A

[olemann]

We already see the contours of the future. Kalle Rovanpera, Nicolay Gryazin and Oliver Solberg and there will probably be one from France and Storbitania as I know them and hopefully someone from the Baltic countries where the rally stands so high.

[mknight]

I dunno about Gryazin tbh. He has his "Russian driver" moments...like Lukyanuk and Novikov before that. What I mean by that is moments like he had in first stage, going so much over the limit at a given place that you wonder if he missed a note. (Novikov often just ignored the notes, like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmc7SRvo38 )

[doubled1978]

For me O.Solberg is the most impressive youngster in a long while, whether he will win championships only time will tell, but this kid has got the minerals...Rovanpera is also very good. I’ve said it before, I can’t wait for these two (And hopefully a few others) to graduate to WRC as I’m sure it will be exciting for us watching.

[Tauri_J]

Got some massive jumps on video on SS4

https://vimeo.com/347935830
https://vimeo.com/347936057
https://vimeo.com/347936185

[KKS]

He is impressive here.

Then again this is the kind of roads he drives since starting with R5. WRC runs on many different road types. This is the first time I have seen his footage over more than a corner or two and it looks quite ragged to me. Some corners great but some with tons of corrections and all over the place.


What you talking about? It's his second ever gravel rally on R5. And he progress massively! On first two events in LRC Gorban can match his speed and they fight for a win in two snow rally at Aluksne and Sarma. But in Liepaja and here in Estonia he destroy Gorban times!
It's massive progress since last year and beginning of this year for him!

[KKS]

Got some massive jumps on video on SS4

https://vimeo.com/347935830
https://vimeo.com/347936057
https://vimeo.com/347936185
it's a wide lens or really 70+m jumps ? O_o

[Googol]

Air time looks too short for 70 m.

[Tauri_J]

it's a wide lens or really 70+m jumps ? O_o

yeah, with a GoPro...My guess was around 60m. Could be more or less, but 50 for sure. Hard to determine with no distance boards.

[RS]

I dunno about Gryazin tbh. He has his "Russian driver" moments...like Lukyanuk and Novikov before that. What I mean by that is moments like he had in first stage, going so much over the limit at a given place that you wonder if he missed a note. (Novikov often just ignored the notes, like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmc7SRvo38 )

Are there other examples than the first stage today?

[RS]

Passats de Canto vid is up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zDN6mJ2g2A

New Fiesta R5 looks a little lazy/tame to me.

[Indreq]

Many estonians were hoping that Märtin will be something like Loeb from now on - close to top guys pace, stealing stage wins here and there. Based on his pace today, but much more based on his comments during last few days and today - IMHO its clear that its not going to happen. Loeb has always been racing since he left WRC, so coming back isnt so big thing for him. Märtin has done handful of for-fun events on some vintage 2wd cars over the years and thats it. It is hard to judge if he has the speed or if he could challenge todays top guys - as based on his comments he has made it clear that he doesnt even want to try. He has said that this car can be driven much faster but he doesnt want to. Also, his comments of hoping the day was already over, having doubts if this was a good idea in the first place etc - it seems that he doesnt have this competitors urge to best others any more. He is having fun at his own pace and when he feels like he has had enough for a day, he would like to go home, but rally isnt unfortunately over yet. I guess we can forget this hope that he will make some small comeback and be competitive, more likely this is last time he will be seen in WRC car. He has moved on and driving at speed isnt his "thing" any more.

About other competitors - behind obviously amazing Solberg, i am very happy about Aus. He is doing his first ever event in R5 and his pace isnt bad at all. That brings to my mind another "what if" moment - Aus is contemporary with Tänak, they were 2 blindingly fast youngsters some 15 years ago, in many ways equal back then. But when Tänak moved on to faster cars and then abroad, Aus was stuck on Lada VFTS and later some mediocre N4 machinery, then missing big parts of seasons in domestic championships, never really going abroad - but what if he had same opportunities, would he have been as fast as Tänak today? Obviously we can never know...

[cali]

Many estonians were hoping that Märtin will be something like Loeb from now on - close to top guys pace, stealing stage wins here and there. Based on his pace today, but much more based on his comments during last few days and today - IMHO its clear that its not going to happen. Loeb has always been racing since he left WRC, so coming back isnt so big thing for him. Märtin has done handful of for-fun events on some vintage 2wd cars over the years and thats it. It is hard to judge if he has the speed or if he could challenge todays top guys - as based on his comments he has made it clear that he doesnt even want to try. He has said that this car can be driven much faster but he doesnt want to. Also, his comments of hoping the day was already over, having doubts if this was a good idea in the first place etc - it seems that he doesnt have this competitors urge to best others any more. He is having fun at his own pace and when he feels like he has had enough for a day, he would like to go home, but rally isnt unfortunately over yet. I guess we can forget this hope that he will make some small comeback and be competitive, more likely this is last time he will be seen in WRC car. He has moved on and driving at speed isnt his "thing" any more.

About other competitors - behind obviously amazing Solberg, i am very happy about Aus. He is doing his first ever event in R5 and his pace isnt bad at all. That brings to my mind another "what if" moment - Aus is contemporary with Tänak, they were 2 blindingly fast youngsters some 15 years ago, in many ways equal back then. But when Tänak moved on to faster cars and then abroad, Aus was stuck on Lada VFTS and later some mediocre N4 machinery, then missing big parts of seasons in domestic championships, never really going abroad - but what if he had same opportunities, would he have been as fast as Tänak today? Obviously we can never know...People has too high hopes about him. The ever realistic way was mentioned already that if he tops best R5 crews the job has to be considered well done. There's just no way you return after 15 years away and would battle with the top guys. Just no way. Going faster also increases the risk of going off significantly.
For me Märtin has been just on the expected level. I guess I was the few estonians who did not have some unrealistic wet dreams about his performance level.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[steve.mandzij]

People has too high hopes about him. The ever realistic way was mentioned already that if he tops best R5 crews the job has to be considered well done. There's just no way you return after 15 years away and would battle with the top guys. Just no way. Going faster also increases the risk of going off significantly.
For me Märtin has been just on the expected level. I guess I was the few estonians who did not have some unrealistic wet dreams about his performance level.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using TapatalkI suppose, but purely speculate, that he might have lost his edge in his accident in 2005. Maybe he's scared of pushing the limits like before.

[cali]

I suppose, but purely speculate, that he might have lost his edge in his accident in 2005. Maybe he's scared of pushing the limits like before.That's quite visible on the stages and obviously understandable

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

About O. Solberg:


What you talking about? It's his second ever gravel rally on R5. And he progress massively! On first two events in LRC Gorban can match his speed and they fight for a win in two snow rally at Aluksne and Sarma. But in Liepaja and here in Estonia he destroy Gorban times!
It's massive progress since last year and beginning of this year for him!

I am saying that almost all his rally career in competition so far is on these kind of roads. Only did some of the US rallies this year apart from that.

While his progress and speed on the rallies where he started this year is indeed impressive, it's quite some way to go before he is like Rovanpera, competetive on just about all rallies/surfaces

[tommeke_B]

https://www.facebook.com/Nano22R/videos/380931109093509/?v=380931109093509 :vader:

[AnttiL]

Katsuta retired again with broken radiator

[Allez Andruet]

On a positive note the cars are not burning, but based on its first competetive miles that Fiesta R5 MK2 seems like a second coming of Suzuki SX4 WRC.

[Tarmop]

That, i hope , is exaggerating. Lets see people who developed and have experience with it behind the wheel in Finland.

[dimviii]

Katsuta retired again with broken radiator

We have to stop after SS11. Due to radiator damage again. Huge disappointment. I stopped the car after the arrival of the ES11. This time, the radiator and the belt were cut off on landing. It will not be a story, so we will work with the team to find improvements by Finland.

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/b5T_1A0lqcY

[dimviii]

��https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2206541036125156&id=100003078449008&sfnsn=mo

doesnt work

[Kalm]

doesnt work

Now ?

https://www.facebook.com/553116428053971/posts/2574144612617799/

[dimviii]

now works,thanks!

[Got Mail]

I dunno about Gryazin tbh. He has his "Russian driver" moments...like Lukyanuk and Novikov before that. What I mean by that is moments like he had in first stage, going so much over the limit at a given place that you wonder if he missed a note. (Novikov often just ignored the notes, like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmc7SRvo38 )

I'm afraid that's bollocks.

Is a driver not allowed one mistake?

He has set the most fastest stage times in what is a slower car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suninen quotes suggest they are using the event to test a lot of things on the new Fiesta:

"It's been okay, taking steps forward all the time. Getting better, good pace to start racing. Been testing transmission, suspension - really good challenge, I really need to go on the limits to get the fastest time."

Lots of fast corners where you can feel the balance of the car. Good testing, car is improving."

[mknight]

(Gryazin)

There is a difference between an off with a small mistake and going completely wrong speed.

I remembered his R2 season which was basically just a long list of crashes, interestingly he became more stable with R5 though.

EDIT: Btw. Solbergs Polo just lost powersteering.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Becs Williams
I’ve been really impressed by @nikolay_gryazin here at @RallyEstonia. Really strong pace on day one, shame about the brutal jump at the start of the day. Bodes well for Finland!

[drive]

Nikolay Gryazin

It was a big push on SS13. Yes, we tried to drive cleanly, but at the beginning of the stage, we jumped into a rut and knocked the front tire from the rim, which resulted in strong vibrations.

This time we don’t slow down on the jumps and in one of the last turns flew too much again – if it were not the bank, we would hit the trees. In general, we were lucky – apart from the knocked rear right tire.

Now we are going to the service and feeling the big vibration. Our guys in the team will check the geometry.

https://www.facebook.com/gryazin.nikolay - some info after each stage

[drive]

some v8 sound in estonia rally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiIU4dP13Hk

and https://www.facebook.com/BenediktasVanagas/videos/674466112979542/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I like Gryazin. He is so dedicatrd to testing and learning. He didnt go to WRC2 until he thought he was really ready, even though he could have done so sooner.

And he's still not taken his ERC U28 prize drives yet this year. Wating until the tarmac events in Rome & Barum as he knows he needs to learn more on tarmac.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_ahfJJWwAASFCO.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great clip of Lappi
https://twitter.com/ChristianWRC1/status/1150199431620366338

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Solberg Oliver
SS14 - "Now power-steering works and now the time works !"

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Katsuta retired again with broken radiator

Really disappointing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_a3IjoXsAAIg5c.jpg

[KKS]

141.4 average speed ))))))))))

[quick]

ss14 Ott Tänak average speed 141.4

[RS]

Is Katsuta landing funny? These problems don’t seem to have affected Suninen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is Katsuta landing funny? These problems don’t seem to have affected Suninen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_aFDCZWwAAwL0G.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_aFDCfX4AAPWad.jpg

[RS]

Suninen quotes suggest they are using the event to test a lot of things on the new Fiesta:

"It's been okay, taking steps forward all the time. Getting better, good pace to start racing. Been testing transmission, suspension - really good challenge, I really need to go on the limits to get the fastest time."

Lots of fast corners where you can feel the balance of the car. Good testing, car is improving."

Good to hear Suninen being positive, but I guess he and M-Sport are as surprised as the rest of us at their lack of pace. If Suninen can’t deliver it’s a bit of a stretch to imagine Greensmith or Camilli can in Finland.

No reason to panic though, this and Finland are quite specific events and the Fabia (and I guess maybe therefore Polo too?) are known for being capable of a very high top speed. Maybe Fiesta is geared in a different way.

[Tarmop]

Camilli and Greensmith devloped the car and are R5 drivers, Camilli, having experience from the Polo too, was quite positive. I think they could do better.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice attempt to save at 1.06... ;)

https://youtu.be/-ZsNbRmczds

[svstock]

Tartu City - 1.43 km - stage 15:20 LIVE on TV (Channel 2 15:00) and WRC+
gaps before
Aus vs Pietarinen +1.0
Suninen vs Gryazin +0.8

Will be exciting

[KKS]

Tartu City - 1.43 km - stage 15:20 LIVE on TV (Channel 2 15:00) and WRC+
gaps before
Aus vs Pietarinen +1.0
Suninen vs Gryazin +0.8

Will be exciting
any free re-stream?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Young guns
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_at-1AWwAALT4q.jpg:large

[svstock]

Only Baltic States, but you can try vpn
https://sport.postimees.ee/6728419/otsepilt-ja-blogi-tanak-laheb-rally-estonia-viimasele-katsele-vastu-ulikindla-liidrina?_ga=2.2108150.7540561.1562755449-647533416.1562755449

[dimviii]

Good to hear Suninen being positive, but I guess he and M-Sport are as surprised as the rest of us at their lack of pace. If Suninen can’t deliver it’s a bit of a stretch to imagine Greensmith or Camilli can in Finland.

No reason to panic though, this and Finland are quite specific events and the Fabia (and I guess maybe therefore Polo too?) are known for being capable of a very high top speed. Maybe Fiesta is geared in a different way.

have the impression that older spec fiesta r5 could be faster.

[Toyoda]

So Mikelson running new aero vs Breen the old who complains of understeer, positive for Hyundai for there new aero fixing the handling issues before Finland

[KKS]

new aero can fix understeer only on high speed and probably at mid speed corners. Slow corners they will have understeer, so new aero isn't a full solution for Hyundai

[Rallyper]

About O. Solberg:



I am saying that almost all his rally career in competition so far is on these kind of roads. Only did some of the US rallies this year apart from that.

While his progress and speed on the rallies where he started this year is indeed impressive, it's quite some way to go before he is like Rovanpera, competetive on just about all rallies/surfaces

Disagree. If you´ve watched Olivers career, they did all thing the right way from his age of 8 years. He did it all. Driving RX, Crosscarts etz, and winning. yes, his education did start in Latvia and has done good to him. Learning to take slides on 6th gear, not shifting down to 5th, is all what rallying on top level is about.

[mknight]

Disagree. If you´ve watched Olivers career, they did all thing the right way from his age of 8 years. He did it all. Driving RX, Crosscarts etz, and winning. yes, his education did start in Latvia and has done good to him. Learning to take slides on 6th gear, not shifting down to 5th, is all what rallying on top level is about.

I am not saying he is not learning or that they are not learning correctly. Just that he still has a long way to go on other types of rallies/surfaces.

[Rallyper]

I am not saying he is not learning or that they are not learning correctly. Just that he still has a long way to go on other types of rallies/surfaces.

I do think he has much shorter way than any other coming guy...

[Barreis]

Young guns
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_at-1AWwAALT4q.jpg:large

the right one will for sure be in WRC car but for left one i am not so sure

[denkimi]

ss14 Ott Tänak average speed 141.4
do they even have corners in this rally?

[mknight]

I dunno how many other stages/combinations are possible here, but for sure these kind of average speeds won't make it to a WRC round.

[RS]

Gryazin beats Suninen in the end, despite 2m+ time loss on SS1.

[RS]

the right one will for sure be in WRC car but for left one i am not so sure

They both could be. Solberg name will help Oliver and Gryazin has money behind him but they both have a lot of speed and potential.

At this stage Gryazin is probably a more complete driver as he has done a wider variety of events (which is normal because he is older)

[Got Mail]

They both could be. Solberg name will help Oliver and Gryazin has money behind him but they both have a lot of speed and potential.

At this stage Gryazin is probably a more complete driver as he has done a wider variety of events (which is normal because he is older)

Agree with that.

Nikolay won 9 of the 15 stages here. Oliver won 5. Nikolay has the slower car.

And you just know that Nikolay will go to Rome next week and be super competitive on tarmac.

He is the real deal.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Watching young Solberg last week at Goodwood he was amazing in the WRX car on the tarmac hill-climb.

I dont see him having much problem on that surface in a rally (WRC) car.

Massive future ahead without doubt.

[Barreis]

They both could be. Solberg name will help Oliver and Gryazin has money behind him but they both have a lot of speed and potential.

At this stage Gryazin is probably a more complete driver as he has done a wider variety of events (which is normal because he is older)

everything is possible but money is not enough. we saw it here so many times

[RS]

everything is possible but money is not enough. we saw it here so many times

I am fully aware of that. Money can not overcome talent, but sometimes you need both.

[Rallyper]

I am fully aware of that. Money can not overcome talent, but sometimes you need both.

However if we don´t see Solberg Jr in WRC in the future it´s goodbye to the sport...

[Tarmop]

any free re-stream?

https://sport.postimees.ee/6728708/jarelvaadatav-rally-estonia-viimasel-katsel-demonstreeris-tanak-taas-ulemvoimu?_ga=2.249293060.2089518785.1557565764-1920849890.1477930768


do they even have corners in this rally?

It`s just the Toyota...

[EstWRC]

BEST of by Passats de canto https://youtu.be/k2QhTyyiQnE

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Tt_6-v244

[EstWRC]

TOP5 fastest stage win average speeds in @RallyEstonia all by @OttTanak

SS14 141,4 km/h
SS8 138.8 km/h
SS6 135.2 km/h
SS10 132.1 km/h
SS12 132 km/h


credit https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1150440598245191680

[AnttiL]

I want to see some onboards. Judging by the recce video of SS14 you need lower gears than 6 only in the two junction turns. Did any of the forest stages have chicanes?

[mknight]

As I wrote before if Estonia aims to be a WRC rally at some point these kind of avg. speeds will never go past FIA.

Can something be done with the stages that does not involve chicanes?

[Indreq]

I believe these speeds are partly to lure wrc teams to participate - all of them have had enough opportunities to practice slow stuff, now they needed to test fast roads for Finland. So fast roads they were provided. I am sure that if actual wrc event even becomes a topic, then organizers can easily bring speeds down just enough to match requirements.

[Sulland]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_aFDCZWwAAwL0G.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_aFDCfX4AAPWad.jpg
Drivers issue i guess. Lets go of gas too early.

[Franky]

I believe these speeds are partly to lure wrc teams to participate - all of them have had enough opportunities to practice slow stuff, now they needed to test fast roads for Finland. So fast roads they were provided. I am sure that if actual wrc event even becomes a topic, then organizers can easily bring speeds down just enough to match requirements.

Think Aava mentioned in some interview that they'd like to create more of those big spectator zones, where the cars are on a twistier section. Those areas would also work in favour of average speed reduction.

[Indreq]

That would be actually interesting to see what kind of challenges could be invented for drivers on these artificial sections? Banked roads, negative camber switching to positive and back, loooooong bend with ever tightening radius - basically spiral, with bridge leading out from center etc - of course it is easy to go silly with these artificial things but then on stages which are otherwise boring, could use some (artificial) fun somewhere thrown in. And of course - much easier to manage spectators in such place.
Just thinking, i know it is terribly expensive to become widespread practice :P

[KKS]

As I wrote before if Estonia aims to be a WRC rally at some point these kind of avg. speeds will never go past FIA.

Can something be done with the stages that does not involve chicanes?
Estonia, as Latvia, it's a country with a thousands roads for special stages. If organizers want - they can use roads a bit far from service what ever configuration you want. Yep it still be fast, but not that blind fast as SS14. It's not as they have one stage and must deal with it.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_dXCG0WwAInpeR.jpg

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDknl76LZo8

[mknight]

Estonia, as Latvia, it's a country with a thousands roads for special stages. If organizers want - they can use roads a bit far from service what ever configuration you want. Yep it still be fast, but not that blind fast as SS14. It's not as they have one stage and must deal with it.

Finland is a country with many more roads for special stages, yet average speeds and dealing with them has been a topic for quite a while. (first splitting stages, then chicanes and last moving to narrower roads).

[cali]

As I wrote before if Estonia aims to be a WRC rally at some point these kind of avg. speeds will never go past FIA.

Can something be done with the stages that does not involve chicanes?

They can/could move some of the stages to Võru region which actually has better roads than these roads near Otepää. More bends, twistier etc.
But the thing which surprised me the most was to see how many roads are being paved in that region. If it goes on more like this than we don't have many (great) gravel stages left anymore. We were recceing the stages on Friday and were using many very-very nice an legendary stages which were now paved to get to the current rally stages. From the locals point of view this is nice - no more dusty and uncomfortable raod conditions any more, but on the other we are losing unbelievably nice stages year by year

[AnttiL]

Finland is a country with many more roads for special stages, yet average speeds and dealing with them has been a topic for quite a while. (first splitting stages, then chicanes and last moving to narrower roads).

In a way Rally Finland's heritage is a burden. Certain stages are very popular. Taking the rally out of those classic roads might reduce the popularity. Estonia doesn't have this yet. But the natural geography makes up faster stages because the land is flatter and the roads are straighter. Also, I haven't examined the maps closely to see how dense the road network is for creating alternate routes like in many Rally Finland stages.

When they build those artificial jumps in Estonia, do they leave them for the remainder of the year or are they built and torn down every year separately?

[Tauri_J]

Yes, they leave them as they were.

[KKSF]

KKSF HD video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONlIXLrVNis
with huge jumps, crash and close calls

[dimviii]

@EstWRC
any news,rumors from the works teams/drivers at Estonia?

[EstWRC]

@EstWRC
any news,rumors from the works teams/drivers at Estonia?

didnt hear anything on the stages from other people or in the media :D

teams reportedly very satisfied with things, everyone praised the stages and also that so many people were present no matter what the weather was. Suninen said on Saturday: "We have more people here than on some WRC rounds and i think this should be a WRC round"

It was great event, smile on my face all the time, im still recovering from it and cant quite believe we had it. The amount of people was just unbelievable.

We were on SS1 and SS3 saturday, like expected the TOP guys were on another planet, Markko was very careful on the first pass, on second pass was faster and took the little jump and left hand corner like the TOP guys but it went a little "wrong" and he had to correct. Gross nearly went into the trees at the same place on second pass. Originally we had planned to go on SS5 but when we saw the traffic we cancelled it and went to SS6 instead, which was sooooooo right choice. Very fast right hander and then flat out up the mountain. Amazing how late the guys did brake before the corner, when Ott came first i thought he is going straight, the speed was so incredible and then the late braking and this sudden "flick" to the right with the car. Amazing to watch and the drivers arent just normal. To control these beasts with such a speed.

On Sunday we were both passes on SS11 on the Veski jump, which is right in the beginning of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2QhTyyiQnE. Not so much a special place but since we had some first timers with us who wanted to see a jump the decision was made.

Gryazin was the most impressive driver to watch, the dude isnt afraid of anything, flat out everywhere and biggest jumps. Also credit to the zero car guy with the Dakar Toyota Hilux, he was crazy too :D. One example is here https://youtu.be/k2QhTyyiQnE?t=453. Out of of the WRC drivers, Lappi and the Citroen were the most nervous, correcting the car all the time. Mikkelsen for me was surprisingly neat and tidy for his standards, at least he wasnt so much all over the place like i usually see him on WRC plus on other rounds. And you could where Ott gains time against the others, braking later and not lifting or braking on places where others did and just carrying more speed overall.

Cant wait for next year already, luckily theres only two weeks left until Finland :)

[Kalm]

yeah, the zero truck was proper :)
https://www.facebook.com/BenediktasVanagas/videos/2486770431541984/

[EstWRC]

very good vid, zero car guy right at the beginning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq89ZTVqu6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeShyFx8TVw&feature=youtu.be

[faateris]

Rally Estonia 2019' in pictures - http://janisasaris.com/en/home

JA

[samzon100]

Photographs Shell Helix Rally Estonia 12-14.07.2019
(Shakedown, SS1, SS3, SS6, SS9, SS10 ja SS12)

https://samzon.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Shell+Helix+Rally+Estonia+07.19/

[Tarmop]

When talking about roads you have to take into account, that it was even more compact than an average national event. The farthest point was the podium and SS15, less than 50 km from the service park. Expand the radius just 30-40 km and the picture is much more different in terms of characteristics...expand it 100-200 km like an average WRC event and....

[EstWRC]

the "Evans" jump https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/vb.68262729972/10157608751589973/?type=2&theater

[EstWRC]

official after movie https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=455024931754482

[EstWRC]

Next years event will be 24 - 26 July.

[Hartusvuori]

Can they buy the promotional event tag two years in a row? Or perhaps just "normal Rally Estonia" and as such receiving a couple of factory WRC entries.

[EstWRC]

it seems they can, at least it is called so https://www.rallyestonia.com/en/spectators/news/uudis/2019/10/31/the-dates-of-an-official-wrc-promotional-event-shell-helix-rally-estonia-2020-are-set/?fbclid=IwAR2Dge7fDVBLokqGgJJzem-9h-6cDaDAFLt0nLV5BWOjy_j0iGN7te-hzmk

[Tarmop]

Now that Tänak is WDC, i think, it is easy.

[pantealex]

Now that Tänak is WDC, i think, it is easy.

How does it make it easier to attempt other WRC teams ?

Could be otherway round now as Ott is WDC.

[sinepikohv]

How does it make it easier to attempt other WRC teams ?

Could be otherway round now as Ott is WDC.

If I'm not mistaken, being a promotional event means that one car from every team is mandatory.

EDIT: I was mistaken. Urmo Aava said that "the organisers can't force anyone".

[Tarmop]

How does it make it easier to attempt other WRC teams ?

Could be otherway round now as Ott is WDC.

Promotional event status is easiet to get*

[EstWRC]

today there could be an announcement that the rally is cancelled....the problem? money....suddenly Estonian Autosport Union wants a share of it, they say that they are basically left out and they require 100 000 euros from the organizers. Estonian Autosport Union board members dont even hide that they want to fill the union thin pocket with this money.

The rally organizers said they are not able to meet such a requirement by law, the Board of the Estonian Autosport Union imposed an international rally registration fee of EUR 100,000. Given that last year the registration fee was € 2000, it was increased by 5000%.

Aava is sain that they have tired to find a compromise etc but nothing so far.


Also this: "However, it has been understood from the Autosport Union that the withdrawal of the Rally Estonia organizers does not necessarily mean that the top rally will be canceled. The federation may also consider organizing a top rally event itself. It is believed that this can be done in a simpler format and at a lower cost than Rally Estonia."


i would like to see how they would manage it. Aava and his team have a very good reputation among the teams and wrc world and they have a huge experience now.

there is a sayin in estonian that "eestlase lemmiktoit on teine eestlane" meaning "estonian favorite food is another estonian" and it bodes well here.

[Päss1928]

there is a sayin in estonian that "eestlase lemmiktoit on teine eestlane" meaning "estonian favorite food is another estonian" and it bodes well here.

Maybe not that applicable here given the fact that the president of the Estonian Autosport Union is Ari Vatanen. Finnish revenge for Tänak's and Märtin's actions? :D It is an idiotic situation for sure.

[Tarmop]

Umh, like many nations have presidents as representatives, i believe that is the case here also. These conspiracy theories may lead to many-many wrong accusations.
Money is always nice, business is business. Just some people saw an opportunity where to get more and since they have an advantage, they took it.

[cali]

I have a feeling that EAL wants to bypass Aava & Co. and organise this rally by themselves. I guess they see how much they can make and attract sponsors.

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[Oraamat]

I have a feeling that EAL wants to bypass Aava & Co. and organise this rally by themselves. I guess they see how much they can make and attract sponsors.

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But could they really attract so many sponsors etc, if there isnt Aava & Co, who are organizing it? I mean RE team have done very good job and I guess sponsors kinda trust them.If some other guys try to manage it, then im pretty sure that, EAL wont pull it off. At the end of a day its 10 years of hard work, that have bring them to this point, EAL could make it work with this kind of quality.

[EstWRC]

I have a feeling that EAL wants to bypass Aava & Co. and organise this rally by themselves. I guess they see how much they can make and attract sponsors.

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exactly and its just so wrong.

Aava and co have worked for 10 years their asses off to get all these sponsors, money and etc and to make this rally happen every time.

Now suddenly EAL wants a share of it. Go work yourself up and earn your money. Where were you when Rally Estonia wasnt doing so well? Nowhere!

and whats also bad, for sure these news have now spread outside estonia and its such a bad publicity for Aava and co. considering they really want a wrc round here in the future.

ridiculous...


comment from head organizer Tarmo Hõbe

The main concern is the registration fee for the competition, which amounts to 100,000 euros. "That's justmindblowing sum of money. What's happening is unrealistic, as no 5,000 percent price increase has been seen in any country. I dare to say that this is a violation of competition law, »

Hõbe was also surprised that bringing the WRC rally to Estonia was no longer a top priority. A year ago, the position of the EAL was quite different. “Last year we knew that bringing the WRC rally to Estonia was a priority, and so we signed a Memorandum of Understanding. It was signed by us, the WRC promoter, the Estonian state and the EAL. It is very surprising to hear that this is no longer the main goal for them anymore. »

This year, Rally Estonia should celebrate its tenth anniversary. Unfortunately, it is not clear at the moment whether this is happening at all. Much work has been done to this end. Hõbe stated: «Rally Estonia has been carried by 3 people and now EAL wants to take part in it. Previously, no interest in the event was shown. Now that we've got the organization and funding in place, they are just starting to do disservice. We definitely want to work together, but they should come to their minds first. »

[Kaps]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if something like that happened in my country...but I really thought there's no such behaviour in Estonia!

Well, you live and learn...

But I'm more and more sure, that this unquenchable human greed will be the end of us all, sooner rather than later...

[EstWRC]

Here’s a “story” of the situation https://youtu.be/UsgkK520bUc

[dimviii]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-estonia-in-delicate-funding-dispute/

[cali]

And the saga continues...
EAL (estonian autosport governing body) announced that Rally Estonia has been misinforming the public and things are not so as they seem. Blaming that they receive very small proportion of governing support (90000 € vs. 980000 €) and throwing some other facts on to the table which in further investigation were not true at all.

Today Tallink (biggest shipping company on Baltic Sea) announced that they will withdraw their support from EAL and continue with Rally Estonia only.

For EAL this now getting very bad publicity as even our Parlament is today discussing this feud.

And now Oleg Gross has released a statement that he will personally pay the 100 000 € fee for Rally Estonia.


Crazy world were living in....

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[flat_right]

Crazy opera. Today at 2 (Estonian time) will be a press conference held by Rally Estonia. Anyone who knows Estonian or just want to watch here is the link

https://sport.delfi.ee/news/auto/wrc/tana-otsepilt-mis-saab-armastatud-rahvapeost-rally-estonia-korraldajad-annavad-pressikonverentsi?id=89052911

This is like crazy thing that is happening. I think we only know about quarter, maybe half of the things. There has to be something more behind it, why such moves were made. And I think RE gave some kind of ultimatum, so mr Gross had to do it to save Estonian Autosport Union?

Anyway... will update soon about the press conference.

[drive]

Tried to read translation to english
https://m.sport.delfi.ee/rallyestonia/article.php?id=89053179

[flat_right]

Rally Estonia 2020 will be cancelled

[Oliverk]

Cancelled officially.

[cali]

I really would like to know the real reasons behind it.

What a bad publicity for our motorsport and country.

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[bluuford]

I really would like to know the real reasons behind it.

What a bad publicity for our motorsport and country.

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Reading all the available information, I cannot see how the board of EAL can continue after today. I would expect them to step back today or during the week at the latest. This is nonsence what is going on right now.

[cali]

How convenient that Oleg Gross made just an hour before Rally Estonia press conference a statement that he will personally pay for the fee.

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[rallyfiend]

How convenient that Oleg Gross made just an hour before Rally Estonia press conference a statement that he will personally pay for the fee.

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Isn't he part of the group that proposed the fee?!

How ludicrous...

[flat_right]

How convenient that Oleg Gross made just an hour before Rally Estonia press conference a statement that he will personally pay for the fee.

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I think the damage was done, RE organizers let them know that this is not how we will continue and we are going to cancel the event. Then to save his own ass, mr Gross told ok, I'm going to pay this fee for you because I love autosport SO much. But decisions were made already beforehand and no way back.

Really really sad day for Estonian Autosport, the greed of people possibly destroyed our dream of a WRC event in the near future when Tänak is still one of the fastest. It was slim before this, this is none now.

[cali]

Isn't he part of the group that proposed the fee?!

How ludicrous...Yes indeed!

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[cali]

I think the damage was done, RE organizers let them know that this is not how we will continue and we are going to cancel the event. Then to save his own ass, mr Gross told ok, I'm going to pay this fee for you because I love autosport SO much. But decisions were made already beforehand and no way back.

Really really sad day for Estonian Autosport, the greed of people possibly destroyed our dream of a WRC event in the near future when Tänak is still one of the fastest. It was slim before this, this is none now.This is exactly how I think. They knew, this Gross public statement was a PR trick to save some face, nothing else.

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[flat_right]

Isn't he part of the group that proposed the fee?!

How ludicrous...

He is part of it! They saw an opportunity to get money to their budget and went full stupid.

[AnttiL]

The ironic thing is that Autoglym rally also announced just a week ago that they're not going to run this year, so there's no test event for Rally Finland in plans. One can only speculate whether Autoglym's decision had something to do with Rally Estonia getting all the big names for the last two years.

[Rallyper]

The ironic thing is that Autoglym rally also announced just a week ago that they're not going to run this year, so there's no test event for Rally Finland in plans. One can only speculate whether Autoglym's decision had something to do with Rally Estonia getting all the big names for the last two years.

Ok. So then they cancelled it tooearly.
However planning rallies needs more than 6 months. So decision already made last autumn, maybe.

[abcrally]

Ok. So then they cancelled it tooearly.
However planning rallies needs more than 6 months. So decision already made last autumn, maybe.

Correct. Autoglym Rally didn't even have plans to run the event in 2020 as last autumn they didn't request the slot from the calendar.

[AnttiL]

Correct. Autoglym Rally didn't even have plans to run the event in 2020 as last autumn they didn't request the slot from the calendar.

But still most likely the decision was made after running last year's event.

[bluuford]

The problem with Autoglym was that it was very different character compared to NORF. I have talked to some teams who took part and they were not happy with the "test conditions." One of the team boss even told that it was so strange that Rally in Finland was so different to NORF while RE was very similar to NORF and much better for test (he had cars in both rallies).

[AnttiL]

The problem with Autoglym was that it was very different character compared to NORF. I have talked to some teams who took part and they were not happy with the "test conditions." One of the team boss even told that it was so strange that Rally in Finland was so different to NORF while RE was very similar to NORF and much better for test (he had cars in both rallies).

Wow, I'm surprised to hear this. I mean, I knew that the roads in the Autoglym ralli area are a bit different in character to Jyväskylä, but it's surprising that Rally Estonia is considered more similar.

[RaceRR]

I guess it is because Rally Estonia organizers have paid enormous effort in order to transform the roads into conditions as they are in Finland. They have built trampolines and jumps in order to get the character of the roads suitable. Also for example the ''Truuta'' area which adds a custom designed superspecial stage effect into one of the most famous stages, creating a new dimension to spectating a special stage.

Nevertheless, so frustrating spectacle to see such innovators of the sport forced into unthinkable solutions :/

[EstWRC]

i have been thinking all yesterday and today what to say...

but im just lost with words and actually cant even think what to say.

the guys in EAL dont even realize what damage they have done to Rally Estonia and also for themselves.

this is just sad, very sad....:(

[cali]

i have been thinking all yesterday and today what to say...

but im just lost with words and actually cant even think what to say.

the guys in EAL dont even realize what damage they have done to Rally Estonia and also for themselves.

this is just sad, very sad....:(I have received some small portion of information from members of EAL and it changes quite bit my understanding of the whole situation. Unfortunately I cannot reveal all of it but just let me say where's smoke there's fire and this feud is caused by both parties, not just by EAL.

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[abcrally]

The problem with Autoglym was that it was very different character compared to NORF. I have talked to some teams who took part and they were not happy with the "test conditions." One of the team boss even told that it was so strange that Rally in Finland was so different to NORF while RE was very similar to NORF and much better for test (he had cars in both rallies).

Strange comment about Autoglym roads. What I have heard from interviews they used difficult stages, some of them even more demanding than Rally Finland. Some teams asked more narrow and slower roads too but if they did find those from Rally Estonia - I'm very surprised.

[abcrally]

And the saga continues...
EAL (estonian autosport governing body) announced that Rally Estonia has been misinforming the public and things are not so as they seem. Blaming that they receive very small proportion of governing support (90000 € vs. 980000 €) and throwing some other facts on to the table which in further investigation were not true at all.

Today Tallink (biggest shipping company on Baltic Sea) announced that they will withdraw their support from EAL and continue with Rally Estonia only.

For EAL this now getting very bad publicity as even our Parlament is today discussing this feud.

And now Oleg Gross has released a statement that he will personally pay the 100 000 € fee for Rally Estonia.


Crazy world were living in....

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Can't help but think there has to be other issues too than the extra fee of 100k.

Why nobody questions about the fee Rally Estonia has paid to WRC promoter in 2019. Maybe that is secret amount but in any case that fee is huge too.
Or does somebody believe they did not pay to WRC promoter :)

[cali]

Can't help but think there has to be other issues too than the extra fee of 100k.

Why nobody questions about the fee Rally Estonia has paid to WRC promoter in 2019. Maybe that is secret amount but in any case that fee is huge too.
Or does somebody believe they did not pay to WRC promoter :)Yes, there's reasons behind it.

Fees:
Approx 350 000 to promoter
Approx 260 000 to the Manufacturers

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[AnttiL]

Strange comment about Autoglym roads. What I have heard from interviews they used difficult stages, some of them even more demanding than Rally Finland. Some teams asked more narrow and slower roads too but if they did find those from Rally Estonia - I'm very surprised.


I would say that Autoglym has used faster roads than Rally Finland, especially in the last two years with Rally Finland using more of smaller roads. Autoglym has been an event mostly for historic cars and partly for drivers without pace notes, which doesn't usually get too fast on wide public roads. In turn, these roads withstand rallying better and require less repairing. It's also true that the roads in the area of Autoglym are a bit different to Jyväskylä area, but not so drastically. It's more about the road selection than the geography.

As for Rally Estonia, to me it seems half of the roads are super fast, much faster than Rally Finland has, and half are slower. I mean, I haven't been to Rally Estonia or any Estonian gravel roads myself, but from videos it seems they get more rutted and are generally softer than anything in Rally Finland. Even the smallest roads in Rally Finland like Oittila or Pihlajakoski beginnings are more technical and have more stones in the mix than the Rally Estonia roads. Meanwhile, the fast sections in Estonia are often super fast with "long" crests and bends whereas Rally Finland often more crests and they are sharper. There seems also to be some sections with no ditches but instead "banks" on the side of the road.

At the same time, I don't have a reason to doubt bluuford's comment. It's surprising but interesting to hear.

[flat_right]

I have received some small portion of information from members of EAL and it changes quite bit my understanding of the whole situation. Unfortunately I cannot reveal all of it but just let me say where's smoke there's fire and this feud is caused by both parties, not just by EAL.

But do you know if this information that you have is "coming out" in some form? Of course I'm not that naive to think that everything that was said and done was also made public but on the other hand I can't understand if there is blame by Aava and co. towards EAL, then why won't EAL say the things Aava and co have done? But can you reveal (based on the info) is it about money or something else?

[abcrally]

Yes, there's reasons behind it.

Fees:
Approx 350 000 to promoter
Approx 260 000 to the Manufacturers

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Huge numbers!
I have a feeling that the extra fee of 100 000 was not the biggest issue for Aava & co.

[AnttiL]

They had to pay those promoter and manufacturer fees last year as well? It's what you need to get the WRC Promotional event status?

[cali]

They had to pay those promoter and manufacturer fees last year as well? It's what you need to get the WRC Promotional event status?These are 2019 numbers... And yes, this seems to be what it takes to get WRC Promotional event status

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[rallyfiend]

Yes, there's reasons behind it.

Fees:
Approx 350 000 to promoter
Approx 260 000 to the Manufacturers

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They didn't have to pay those fees.

They chose to.

[AnttiL]

Paying those sums has been an investment for taking the event towards WRC status. Also, getting the WRC teams there must have brought a lot of more spectators and media coverage.

[the sniper]

If that's €260k shared between all four manufactures, that actually seems like a reasonable price. Surely it cost each manufacturer far more than €50k to take part. The promoters fee seems like very poor value, if none of that money was passed on to the manufacturers.

[cali]

Paying those sums has been an investment for taking the event towards WRC status. Also, getting the WRC teams there must have brought a lot of more spectators and media coverage.Agreed

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[EstWRC]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-rally-estonia-went-from-triumph-to-cancellation/

[mknight]

The main issue is the long term damage. WRC promoter needs reliable organizers in countries that are good for marketing. Especially with the recent wave of cancelled or semi-cancelled rallies.

Right now WRC event in Estonia doesn't look like either of those.

[cali]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-rally-estonia-went-from-triumph-to-cancellation/David Evans piece in Dirtfish is not very far away from what I've heard

Btw EstWRC did you received my PM?

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[abcrally]

The main issue is the long term damage. WRC promoter needs reliable organizers in countries that are good for marketing. Especially with the recent wave of cancelled or semi-cancelled rallies.

Right now WRC event in Estonia doesn't look like either of those.

Didn't this same event cancelled a few years ago too? If I remember correctly some money issues back then with Eurosport.

[Oraamat]

As far as i know, in 2016 they ended up with a decent minus. So they decided not to organize it anymore. In 2017 they found some new inspiration to think big and their main goal became to bring WRC rally to Estonia, so they orginized it again in 2018 and as wrc promotional event in 2019.

[cali]

Didn't this same event cancelled a few years ago too? If I remember correctly some money issues back then with Eurosport.As far as I know only 2019 was profitable year

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[AnttiL]

Here is the official statement https://www.rallyestonia.com/en/spectators/news/uudis/2020/02/27/the-statement-from-rally-estonia-director-urmo-aava/

[flat_right]

What I have learned is that the Estonian Autosport Union board is shocked that the event got cancelled and they are having a meeting in the beginning of next week to find a solution that there would still be a international rally (hopefully held by Aava and co). As most of the board have rally background they feel that they have screwed up (a bit) and they didn't believe it would go so far. Also the rally fans are fuming and giving all kinds of shit to them. Aava says that the decision is final and there would be no RE or anything similar held by them.

[Oraamat]

Here is the official statement https://www.rallyestonia.com/en/spectators/news/uudis/2020/02/27/the-statement-from-rally-estonia-director-urmo-aava/

This is translation of what he said in pressconfrence 26.02. So nothing new in Estonian media, but nice to have that statement in english for you guys.

[cali]

https://sport.err.ee/1058565/oleg-gross-rally-estonia-tuleks-ikkagi-ara-korraldada-kui-asi-on-vaid-eelarve-puudujaagis-olen-valmis-kaasa-aitama

- EAL required to show budget and show all finances which was declined by Aava & Co
- after all these years of support he requires an apology from Aava and then he is willing to support the rally
- believes RE problems of finding budget
- has promised multiple times to help, also lobby the EAL board to remove the 100 000 € fee (buy they needed to see finances and budget)
Etc etc

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[flat_right]

Just went to shop to grab some popcorn because today Rally Estonia (Urmo Aava) and Estonian Autosport Union (Oleg Gross) will sit down together and give an interview. Hopefully will get fireworks and of course some answers to the accusations from each side. Going to be interesting!

[AnttiL]

https://sport.err.ee/1058565/oleg-gross-rally-estonia-tuleks-ikkagi-ara-korraldada-kui-asi-on-vaid-eelarve-puudujaagis-olen-valmis-kaasa-aitama

- EAL required to show budget and show all finances which was declined by Aava & Co
- after all these years of support he requires an apology from Aava and then he is willing to support the rally
- believes RE problems of finding budget
- has promised multiple times to help, also lobby the EAL board to remove the 100 000 € fee (buy they needed to see finances and budget)
Etc etc

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Just to clarify your quotes, the person in the interview is Oleg Gross

[TypeR]

Basically nothing new.. Gross don't/can't understand why the rally is cancelled and is now ready to sit down again, to hold the rally.. Aava said that, he don't want to do worse rally than last year.. and as they have organised many years, they know by their experiences that if they start to rush now, the result will be like a local rally..

It ended somehow like that

Gross/EAL feat. Justin Bieber - Sorry


Yeah, I know that I let you down
Is it too late to say I'm sorry now?
Ooh, ooh
I'll take every single piece of the blame if you want me to
But you know that there is no innocent one in this game for two
I'll go, I'll go and then you go, you go out and spill the truth
Can we both say the words and forget this?

[AnttiL]

They would also have an issue this year with the Safari being run at the same weekend where RE was last year.

[flat_right]

They would also have an issue this year with the Safari being run at the same weekend where RE was last year.

This was already solved and it would have been 1 week after Safari (16-19 Jul). Rally Estonia 24-26 of July.
Quite tight but as I understood there were preliminary agreements with teams and the were fine with it.

[McTony]

Better a "regional" rally than no rally at all.
Plus it would be a good way to promote Estonian national events as such as well.

[ArviPommer]

https://sport.postimees.ee/6953151/autospordiliit-soovib-valitsuselt-rahvusvahelise-ralli-korraldamiseks-pea-miljonit-eurot

[wwbroe]

https://sport.postimees.ee/6953151/autospordiliit-soovib-valitsuselt-rahvusvahelise-ralli-korraldamiseks-pea-miljonit-eurot

Even if they would get money from the state i doubt it will be possible to organise the rally in juli 2020 with the current corona pandemie.

[Franky]

Even if they would get money from the state i doubt it will be possible to organise the rally in juli 2020 with the current corona pandemie.

The timing of it is ... not understandable. Even if the borders will be open for international travel, then people (fans) won't start traveling before they can feel certain that the virus is done and dusted. While there's any question that it might be unsafe, majority of people won't travel.

[Tauri_J]

I cant seem to find any logic behind this.

[ArviPommer]

https://leht.postimees.ee/6954681/wrc-tiimid-voivad-kull-eestisse-jouda-kuid-rallisober-neid-suure-toenaosusega-ei-naeks?utm_source=sport_fb&utm_medium=wallpost&utm_content=6954681&utm_campaign=fb_post&fbclid=IwAR3QjKESlVZnmlVA9xIQjyu-BWEb5fO9-vgDla0zXGi4kXcuGvpeaFaWRwk

[masa90]

https://leht.postimees.ee/6954681/wrc-tiimid-voivad-kull-eestisse-jouda-kuid-rallisober-neid-suure-toenaosusega-ei-naeks?utm_source=sport_fb&utm_medium=wallpost&utm_content=6954681&utm_campaign=fb_post&fbclid=IwAR3QjKESlVZnmlVA9xIQjyu-BWEb5fO9-vgDla0zXGi4kXcuGvpeaFaWRwk


What does it say? It is in Estonian (cant understand) and also some subscriber stuff so can pretty much only see the headline.

[Tauri_J]

They are talking about running a rally without spectators.

[cali]

They are talking about running a rally without spectators.I think the idea was to have some sort of AllLive from every stage

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[ArviPommer]

https://sport.postimees.ee/6966160/juri-ratas-lubas-rally-estonia-toetamise-jatkamist-mul-on-kahju-et-see-sisemine-konflikt-toimus?utm_source=sport_fb&utm_medium=wallpost&utm_content=6966160&utm_campaign=fb_post&fbclid=IwAR2EbrMVPi71ir4IPKh_eCUjeP5PYvf_tmxeZvRrE KapFUSBcQIf4RVtCng

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/estonias-governing-body-organizing-july-rally/

Now Estonian Autosport Union is planning to run a corona safe rally two weeks before Rally Finland. And the backup date is the same as Rally Finland

[ArviPommer]

https://sport.postimees.ee/6982168/urmo ... b-endiselt

Peamise sõnumina andis Aava teada, et tema meeskond pole korraldamisest loobunud ning unistus WRC-etapp Eestisse tuua elab endiselt.
Rally Estonia on bränd, mida maailmas lisaks heale korraldusele teatakse ka kui ägedat sündmust, kus saab lisaks spordile ka meelt lahutada ehk tuled ja viled on selle brändi osa. Töö 2021. aasta ralli osas käib. Aava on oma tiimiga leidnud uusi põnevaid teid, arvestades WRC-meeskondade tagasisidet ja soovi korraldada MM-ralli.

[cali]

https://sport.postimees.ee/6982168/urmo ... b-endiselt

Peamise sõnumina andis Aava teada, et tema meeskond pole korraldamisest loobunud ning unistus WRC-etapp Eestisse tuua elab endiselt.
Rally Estonia on bränd, mida maailmas lisaks heale korraldusele teatakse ka kui ägedat sündmust, kus saab lisaks spordile ka meelt lahutada ehk tuled ja viled on selle brändi osa. Töö 2021. aasta ralli osas käib. Aava on oma tiimiga leidnud uusi põnevaid teid, arvestades WRC-meeskondade tagasisidet ja soovi korraldada MM-ralli.I'm confused and fed up... Soon I really don't care

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[AnttiL]

Once you calm down, can you tell us in English what's going on?

[TypeR]

Once you calm down, can you tell us in English what's going on?
Basically nothing really new or mindbreaking.. Aava said that he and his team haven't buried down the idea of doing WRC event and they are working on 2021 rally. The brand of Rally Estonia is known not only about rallying, but also about all the show and enterteintment that comes along.
They have also found some new ways/ideas with WRC teams according to the event..

Well.. let's see how the whole thing goes on this year all over the world, but tbh I would even love to see some random testing

[Co-driven]

What about Viru Rally? Is it really going to run on beginning of July?

[Tauri_J]

Yup, It's gonna run. Organisers are hoping some top names (read Ott)

[cali]

Yup, It's gonna run. Organisers are hoping some top names (read Ott)Well I'm definitely going there. It's close to our family summerhouse :)

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[sindroms]

Well I'm definitely going there. It's close to our family summerhouse :)

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What about possible spectating restrictions i.e. only Kehala autotrack might be available for spectators?

[EstWRC]

what the hell, this came out of nowhere https://dirtfish.com/rally/dirtfish-and-tanak-give-backing-to-estonian-rally/?fbclid=IwAR37Y4hvqtT93jK3gvCY8-ZvIRtZtZS3-ci0F6UNIkH3euSEoCGFqrca5io

DirtFish and World Rally Champion Ott Tänak have joined forces to back the Estonian Autosport Union’s July event.

[cali]

What about possible spectating restrictions i.e. only Kehala autotrack might be available for spectators?I think forest stages are more safe unless you are afraid of ticks but I'm vaccinated. Never liked Kehala so much but it's better than nothing

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[skarderud]

The rallyorganiser going to court against the estonian federation. How will this end?

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[cali]

The rallyorganiser going to court against the estonian federation. How will this end?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkIt seems there's personal and financial conflicts.
Estonian ASN accuses Aava and Co for not opening their accounting, that Aava tries to overtake Estonian ASN to fulfill his personal financial interests, no benefits to Estonian autosport in general while Aava cashes all the benefits etc etc etc

Aava and Co are taking things to court about this 100 000 € fee.

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[cali]

New dates released
https://dirtfish.com/rally/rally-dirtfish-takes-up-august-reserve-date/

But in the latest interview Estonian ASN Member of The Board Janis Kaal admitted that no budget and no teams confirmed yet

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[drive]

Any news? Like rally guide, etc...

[Tauri_J]

Rally Dirtfish? Nope, but it should come this week.

[Tauri_J]

Neuville and Tänak confirmed for Rally Dirtfish.

With WRC of course

[EstWRC]

More here https://dirtfish.com/rally/tanak-and-neuville-to-contest-rally-dirtfish-with-hyundai/

[ArviPommer]

Lõuna-Eestis toimuva Rally DirtFishi korraldajad andsid teada, et nenda idee korraldada ralli ei sündinud soovist korraldada juba tänavu Eestis WRC etapp. https://sport.postimees.ee/6997071/rally-dirtfishi-korraldajate-selgitus-spekulatsioonid-mm-rallist-ei-vasta-toele

[masa90]

And in English??

[flat_right]

Some really pointless press release in my opinion. So basically what they are saying that the idea to organize Dirtfish Rally wasn't because they saw an opportunity for WRC event but as the FIA is looking for organizers who could potentially do it, then they will give their best to make it happen.


In recent days, there have been various speculations in the media as if Rally DirtFish were to become the stage of the FIA ​​World Rally Championship.

These speculations are not true here, Rally DirtFish has not claimed such status and did not intend to become the stage of the current season of the FIA ​​World Rally Championship.

The idea of ​​organizing Rally DirtFish was born with the desire to continue the tradition of organizing top-level competitions in Estonia, to create attractive conditions suitable for WRC teams for development and training activities, and to bring world-class motorsport home to Estonian rally fans.

Both the International Motorsport Federation and the national federations and rally organizers are looking for ways and means to continue organizing the season, taking into account the current restrictions and precautions arising from COVID-19.

In connection with this, a situation has arisen where Estonia is considered to be one of the possible venues for the WRC stage. The local motorsport community is working to make this plan a reality. Both Rally DirtFish and the Estonian Motorsport Association (EAL) fully support the idea and initiative to bring the official World Cup stage to the homeland of the reigning world rally champion Ott Tänak.

[TypeR]

A bit weird statement to me even talking about** bringing (or not) the WRC to Estonia.

Rally DF organiser is Estonian Autosport Union, who said some months ago, that WRC event isn't and can't be a priority to them, because there are also other disciplines in autosport.

It was said, when they were arguong with Rally Estonia organisers (Aava & co), who has done everything to get the WRC event to Estonia.. And now RE not doing the event, the EAU is now talking about the Big event..

Doing the WRC round now would mean, that it will be in FIA calendar and tge organiser(EAU) would have to pay the 100k fee.. to themselves :D which is the reason they got into an argument with Aava & co at first place (as it is fed to public/people).

To me, it would be the best to stop the 2020 WRC season and not to make halfass event in Estonia.

[Tarmop]

Why`s that? At the moment, no-one complains if you don`t have the spectators, on the contrary. With those restrictions it`s already much easier (given they have the money), proovide the itinireray, SP, accomodations for the teams, rescue service and maybe some broadcasting. There are ohter things in addition ofc, but...

[Tauri_J]

https://www.rallyestonia.ee/et/pealtvaatajale/uudised/uudis/2020/06/17/eesti-autospordi-liit-ja-rally-estonia-jatkavad-uhiste-joupingutustega-autoralli-mm-etapi-eestisse-toomise-nimel/?fbclid=IwAR0YcbNp1kzGMdIctZQpsNrqYr1PnKwFTSqCEJqU aUtVjG8nRUyu6l7ChCQ

Seems like Urmo and EAL have come to terms

[EstWRC]

Wow, amazing news. didn’t think it would happen but they have buried the hatchet.

Aava confirming that the Wrc promotor has made proposal for them.

[AnttiL]

So...this is not Rally Dirtfish? or is it?

[EstWRC]

So...this is not Rally Dirtfish? or is it?

No, as i understand

The next few days will be full of suspense, since the official WRC calendar is about to be released! We are glad to announce, that Rally Estonia and Estonian Autosport Union will continue to cooperate for the official WRC event to be held in Estonia! ��
"WRC promoter has made an offer to Rally Estonia to organise an official WRC - FIA World Rally Championship event in Estonia in 2020. We have submitted several necessary documents to different institutions and are currently waiting for the responses. When we have finished these arrangements, we can continue the discussion with FIA and WRC promoter:" said Urmo Aava, the director of Rally Estonia.
Our greatest dream has never been closer, but we still have a lot of work to do. We can promise you one thing - we will do everything in our power to make history and bring an official WRC event to Estonia!

[cali]

https://www.rallyestonia.ee/et/pealtvaatajale/uudised/uudis/2020/06/17/eesti-autospordi-liit-ja-rally-estonia-jatkavad-uhiste-joupingutustega-autoralli-mm-etapi-eestisse-toomise-nimel/?fbclid=IwAR0YcbNp1kzGMdIctZQpsNrqYr1PnKwFTSqCEJqU aUtVjG8nRUyu6l7ChCQ

Seems like Urmo and EAL have come to termsFinally, I was fed up with this drama

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[ArviPommer]

https://uudised.tv3.ee/sport/uudis/2020/06/17/septembris-toimub-louna-eesti-teedel-autoralli-mm-etapp/ Happening Two Rally - Rally Dirtfish and problably if we can jackpot Word Rally Championship

[cali]

Prime minister Jüri Ratas promised approx 2,5 mil € for Rally Estonia.

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[GigiGalliNo1]

Dirt Fish is just a title sponsor who has given money for the event name.

[MartijnS]

The 'WRC' Event will be a separate event right?

[Tauri_J]

Yes, Dirtfish and RE will be different events.

[br21]

For the moment potential WRC date for Estonia is beginning of September

[EstWRC]

The 'WRC' Event will be a separate event right?

Yep and Aava said there’s a possibility that both will go ahead. Dirtfish would be perfect for testing for teams.

[able1]

Yep and Aava said there’s a possibility that both will go ahead. Dirtfish would be perfect for testing for teams.

If Rally Estonia get`s this opportunity then participating in rally Dirtfish will be borderline cheating :). And if road conditions are similar ( and i suspect they will) there won`t be better place and time to test setups. I remember well what Tanak did in 2019 Rally Estonia and with pre-event testing like this he should be untouchable!
If it would be up to me to make the call , then i would pick Liepaja event. But that is all my thoughts about it.

[DoN_cz]

So the Rally Estonia (that might potentially be in WRC) that is supposed to run in early September - where would it be based? Same as DirtFish rally - Otepää?

[sindroms]

Are there enough different stages to run 2 separate events in Estonia? If there is any crossover between the 2 then the FIA will be in breach of their own regs.

There are enough stages for two separate rallies. One of them have to move a little bit to south - great stages between Voru city and EST/LAT border which have been used in South Estonia (Louna Eesti) rallies.

[Tauri_J]

Dont think They would be running there because "real" South Estonian rally Will be held there at the end of august.

And its also too far from Otepää.

[cali]

Dont think They would be running there because "real" South Estonian rally Will be held there at the end of august.

And its also too far from Otepää.

No it isn't too far - from Võru to Otepää it's only about 43 km and many of the rally Estonia stages have been more to the side of Võru than to Otepää. From Otepää to let's say Haanja is 62 km and to Ruusmäe is approx 75 km. We've seen far more longer liaisions and this is really nothing. I actually prefer the Võru and Haanja stages to Otepää's - they're more challenging!

[Tauri_J]

I too like those stages more but they need to be run again at the end of the August. Those roads are too soft to handle two rallies in one month. And If I remember correctly when rally is based at Otepää, they have rarely went to Haanja. When they race at Haanja, the HQ is usually based in Võru.

My bet is that they're gonna use roads which RE "ditched" when they went with the idea of ultra complex rally since 2018. They were run during ERC times and before that. Talking about Urvaste,Rimmi, Linnamäe, Koikküla, Oe etc.

https://www.upload.ee/image/11899720/download__26_.png

[Tauri_J]

Rally Dirtfish was put on hold since news came out that RE could be a WRC event. But now DELFI is reporting that if RE will be confirmed, Dirtfish will be cancelled. Reason - overlapping stages.

[EstWRC]

So, tomorrow at 13:00 Estonian time a press conference will be held.

[Hartusvuori]

So, tomorrow at 13:00 Estonian time a press conference will be held.

Press conference by Estonian goverment. That's big - and a done deal.

[EstWRC]

Press conference by Estonian goverment. That's big - and a done deal.

i wont believe it until they announce it today or when im there.

since i got interested in motorsport (25 years ago), i have had 3 motorsport dreams: 1) estonian becoming WRC champ 2) a WRC round in Estonia 3) estonian reaching Formula 1 (i dont even care about the results, getting to F1 would alone be history for us)

if the WRC round indeed is announced today, then 2 out of those 3 dreams have been coming true and our formula talent Jüri Vips has a very good change to get to F1 next year.

all this seemed impossible to me 25 years ago...hell, even 10 years ago.

[flykas]

i wont believe it until they announce it today or when im there.

since i got interested in motorsport (25 years ago), i have had 3 motorsport dreams: 1) estonian becoming WRC champ 2) a WRC round in Estonia 3) estonian reaching Formula 1 (i dont even care about the results, getting to F1 would alone be history for us)

if the WRC round indeed is announced today, then 2 out of those 3 dreams have been coming true and our formula talent Jüri Vips has a very good change to get to F1 next year.

all this seemed impossible to me 25 years ago...hell, even 10 years ago.

Ok, then after that we should start wishing for these things in Lithuania :D

[ArviPommer]

1958

[EstWRC]

First time in the history of world of rallying – FIA World Rally Championship comes to Estonia. Rally Estonia will be hosting world top drivers from WRC teams on curvy and bumpy roads of South-Estonia. To top up the competition, all the best drivers from Baltics, Russia and Scandinavia will also enter to the event.

The 3-day event will keep the whole family entertained with unbeatable fan experience in the rally world. By implementing innovative solutions the rally will be made even more convenient and safe for the spectators to watch from the spectator areas. The start and finish ceremony will take place on the territory of the Estonial National Museum in Tartu, where also Service Park and Rally HQ are located and a Special Stage is run on 2 days.

[AnttiL]

Happy for all you Estonian rally enthusiasts, you deserve it :)

[EstWRC]

somebody please punch me, still doesnt seem real :D

some of the stages will be just 10-20km from my home town (if the stages are same as previous years)

[T16]

First time in the history of world of rallying – FIA World Rally Championship comes to Estonia. Rally Estonia will be hosting world top drivers from WRC teams on curvy and bumpy roads of South-Estonia. To top up the competition, all the best drivers from Baltics, Russia and Scandinavia will also enter to the event.

The 3-day event will keep the whole family entertained with unbeatable fan experience in the rally world. By implementing innovative solutions the rally will be made even more convenient and safe for the spectators to watch from the spectator areas. The start and finish ceremony will take place on the territory of the Estonial National Museum in Tartu, where also Service Park and Rally HQ are located and a Special Stage is run on 2 days.

Happy for you man!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great news for Estonia and to finally see something good come out of the Covid-19 nightmare.

Hope it all works out successfully and safely for the organisers, fans and Estonian people.

[Japé]

i wont believe it until they announce it today or when im there.

since i got interested in motorsport (25 years ago), i have had 3 motorsport dreams: 1) estonian becoming WRC champ 2) a WRC round in Estonia 3) estonian reaching Formula 1 (i dont even care about the results, getting to F1 would alone be history for us)

if the WRC round indeed is announced today, then 2 out of those 3 dreams have been coming true and our formula talent Jüri Vips has a very good change to get to F1 next year.

all this seemed impossible to me 25 years ago...hell, even 10 years ago.

To third point, British F3 2007 champion Marko Asmer could have had a good chance to make a great F1 career as being official BMW Sauber F1 test driver in 2008. BMW was 3rd in F1 constructors' championship 2008, so just if Marko could have had a chance to race with the car.

[meh]

In Estonia, 2020 situation:
- Current WRC champions - Ott Tänak and Martin Järveoja
- part of Toyota Gazoo Racing
- RedGrey - company (Markko Märtin and Ott Tänak) providing running R5 cars service for Hyundai
- Additionally lives in Estonia (but not full time / as only home): Kalle Rovanperä, Teemu Suninen, Tommi Mäkinen

.. and now, level up with official WRC event. Really happy for Urmo Aava and Co for getting their dream achieved (or at the moment, opportunity to do that).