2019 Australian F1 Grandprix - Albert Park Melbourne

[Nitrodaze]

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https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/1.67/dir/37f/image/37f43615c2ac03b076cbd8f1a49a0100.jpg


All twenty cars registered for the 2019 F1 season are set to take on the Albert Park track in anger for the very first race of the season. We go into this race slightly unsure what the pecking order is behind Ferrari. Expectation is that it is going to be a Ferrari one two, but which team shall have a car in the third slot on the second row of the grid. Most would probably think Mercedes, but we also wonder if Redbull may spring a surprise and put one of their cars ahead of the Mercedes. That said, this is the sort of season where a Haas or Renault slipping ahead of the Redbull and or Mercedes at Albert Park cannot be ruled out but unlikely. The top end of the midfield is super fast this season.


There has been 34 grand prix at Albert Park since it took over the Australian GP from Adelaide in 1996. The circuit is 5.3 km in length with a race distance of 307.3km. This is a sweltering 53 laps of 16 corners, two fast swooping curves and two straights of the second lest undulating track on the calendar. Grip level are low here since the track is only used only at F1 race weekends each year.

Michael Schumacher is the most successful driver to race this particular track with 4 wins. Mclaren is the most successful team to win on this track with 11 wins. Of drivers on the current grid, Sebastien Vettel is the most successful to win this race with 3 wins [2011, 2017, 2018]. Since the Hybrid era began, Lewis Hamilton has placed his Mercedes on pole at every race on this circuit but has only won it on only one occasion in this period. However, Hamilton was won this race twice [2008,2015]. Jenson Button has won this race three times and Nico Rosberg has won it twice.

The fastest racing lap record is held by Michael Schumacher since 2004 at 1:24:105. The fastest lap ever done on this track is by Lewis Hamilton at 1:21:167 during Q3 of 2018. Commencing from this grand prix onwards, one point shall be awarded for the fastest race lap. Chances are Schumacher's lap record may be broken this weekend.

I challenge you to predict the grid order that the race would start on sunday [pole to 10th] and the race order at the end of the race [1st to 10th].

And yea, the oz grid girls
https://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/GP16_-_Grid_Girls_3.jpg

[truefan72]

FP1 Thoughts:
LeClerc is the real deal
The Honda engine looks like the real deal
Mercedes were taking it easy in testing
Alfa Romero looks impressive
The midfield will be real tight
Williams has some work to do

[The Black Knight]

FP1 Thoughts:
LeClerc is the real deal
The Honda engine looks like the real deal
Mercedes were taking it easy in testing
Alfa Romero looks impressive
The midfield will be real tight
Williams has some work to do

It was pretty clear that Mercedes were not taking everything they could out of the car in testing but I don’t think Ferrari have shown their hand here yet.

There are rumours that Totto will quit Mercedes/F1 at the end of this year so this is a very big year for them to get everything right.

[truefan72]

Oh my. Gasley out in q1. Rbr beaten by renault, mclaren, hass and str too! Stroll useless as ever. Complaining about nothing. Norris doing an amazing job giovanazzi too. Impressed

[Zico]

My hopes were high after pre-season testing, but the huge 7 tenths gap over the Ferraris has all but guaranteed yet another Merc dominated season. :/

Ah, well.. I hope we at least see some good fights within the rest of the top ten.

[The Black Knight]

My hopes were high after pre-season testing, but the huge 7 tenths gap over the Ferraris has all but guaranteed yet another Merc dominated season. :/

Ah, well.. I hope we at least see some good fights within the rest of the top ten.

Mercedes are actually more dominant here this year than last year. Last year was just a special lap by Lewis to get that advantage. This year they looked like they could do those laptimes all day long.

[zako85]

Mercedes are actually more dominant here this year than last year.

So relax folks. There is nothing else left to see for the rest of season. Mercedes will carry another WDC in its bag. Please come back in March of the next season. As for the rest of this year, the most important questions to be discussed on this board will be whether Kvyat is as bad as he was in 2017, can Vettel throw away more points than in the previous seasons, and what the heck does "Mission Winnow" mean? :-)

[gm99]

Norris doing an amazing job giovanazzi too. Impressed
What's so impressive about qualifying 14th in a potential top-ten car? I'm more impressed with Norris and Albon, who have each beaten their more experienced team-mates in spite of not having driven - unlike Giovanazzi - an F1 car around Albert Park before.

[truefan72]

What's so impressive about qualifying 14th in a potential top-ten car? I'm more impressed with Norris and Albon, who have each beaten their more experienced team-mates in spite of not having driven - unlike Giovanazzi - an F1 car around Albert Park before.

If you notice, that was my Q1 take. Giovinazzi did well to elevate himself in Q1, but at the end of the day Norris was the real standout and Albon did well for himself.
The Hass look damn good and it was good to see Kimi up there along with Perez.

Here is my take on Qualy.
1. RBR are really going all in on Verstappen to the detriment of Gasly who was not even sent out for a 2nd run in Q1. That is pathetic
2. Stroll shows that all the money in the world doesn't buy you talent.
3. Hass will be more of a challenge to RBR than they imagine.
4. Renault had some scruffy laps in Q2 but overall, I think they are up there with Hass
5. Norris is doing some amazing work so far. I'm not sure what Sainz is doing languishing that far back.
6. While i was impressed with Giovinazzi in Q1, overall I still think that Ocon should have been in that seat, albeit for the Ferrari connection of Gio.
7. Mercedes right now are dialed in while Ferrari have some work to do, now that they have a true yardstick to measure their car against.
8. Still very much impressed by Leclerc, but I gotta give vettel his due with a solid lap to claim p3. I just hope they let Leclerc drive and not shaft him the way they did Kimi in the last 2 years. give them both good strategies and let's see where things shake out by the time we get to Spa. It's worked for mercedes for the past 5 years and a change of approach is sorely needed at Ferrari.
9. Finally...Williams. It really is kinda sad to see how far this team has fallen. Let's not forget that they still have a strong mercedes engine in that car, so their demise is all due to the lousy chassis and mechanical engineering. On a brighter note, I was pleased to see that Kubica acquitted himself well all weekend (sans a few rusty mistakes). Russell is no slouch ( both he and ocon will be the future mercedes lineup in the near future) and being pretty much equal on pace with him is a good indication that he is up to speed. Shame that they are driving a rubbish car in a deteriorating team. Hopefully they can both finish the race tomorrow.

[Tazio]

I'm hoping for a points finish from from McNorris!
Good observations truef' I hope Hass doesn't chuck it away this year. The Boss is a freakin' monster. And yeah I'm going hard for Mclerc over Vettel :champion:

[N4D13]

I'm absolutely astonished at the equality in the midfield here.

McLaren blamed Sainz' Q1 exit on his last run being hampered by Kubica's puncture, while the driver himself estimated the loss of time in three or fourth tenths. At first I thought this was bollocks, but had Sainz' lap been four tenths faster, he'd have been 8th instead of 18th. Having eleven cars in four tenths is nothing short of impressive.

[Tazio]

Brilliant start by Bottas.

[steveaki13]

Morning guys. Great start from Bottas

Shame to see Ricciardo have a mare at the start

[steveaki13]

Ferrari not showing anything like the pacey poos I was expecting.

The race is looking a tad stale so far

Sainz smoking away:rolleyes:

[Tazio]

Good evening Steve! :dork:

[Tazio]

Ferrari not showing anything like the pacey poos I was expecting.

The race is looking a tad stale so far

Sainz smoking away:rolleyes:
Yes stale is a good way to put it. Hope it picks up!

[steveaki13]

Good evening Steve! :dork:

Hey Tazzie

I have been wandering for a while and have not been around, but come F1 I sneak back briefly. :D

[Tazio]

Cheers mate!:wave:

[steveaki13]

Some drive from Bottas. Nearly 20 seconds ahead of the rest.

While mad Max is showing them how to pass.

[N4D13]

I'm really surprised at the gaps between Bottas and Hamilton on one hand, and Vettel and Leclerc on the other. I wonder whether they've had some issues with the tyres or what, but the differences we're seeing today (20 and 15 seconds) aren't definitely normal, especially since there was little to choose between either pair in quali.

On top of that, it's been a dreadful return so far for Kubica. Let's hope that this was just a one-off, but he's been utterly useless so far for the whole weekend.

[steveaki13]

Bottas is wiping the floor with everyone today.

Ferrari are no where on this track.

[N4D13]

I'm really surprised at the gaps between Bottas and Hamilton on one hand, and Vettel and Leclerc on the other. I wonder whether they've had some issues with the tyres or what, but the differences we're seeing today (20 and 15 seconds) aren't definitely normal, especially since there was little to choose between either pair in quali.

On top of that, it's been a dreadful return so far for Kubica. Let's hope that this was just a one-off, but he's been utterly useless so far for the whole weekend.
And right after I wrote that, Leclerc starts eating away's the difference with Vettel. I really don't know what's with the pace difference between the Ferraris today. Maybe Vettel overused his tyres in the first part of both stints and is now paying the price?

[Tazio]

Go Mclerc! :stareup: :dork:

[steveaki13]

Charles already the number 2 :p

[Tazio]

Ferrari not letting Mclerc race Fettel

[N4D13]

I'm actually quite OK with Ferrari not letting the drivers race in that position. It would have been a fight in a circuit where overtaking is notoriously difficult, so there was a decent chance of them crashing; and all for no benefit whatsoever for the team since they were way behind 3rd and in front of 6th. An order to hold station makes all the sense in the world at that point of the race.

[Tazio]

Bottas spanks The Boss, and Ferrari sucks for for enforcing team orders!

[Zico]

Wow... When I said "Bottas to shock all of us and destroy Hamilton this year!" on the other thread, I was only joking.. Looks like he finally found his mojo. Has he just had some mental strength coaching by Nicos sports shrink?

No, I dont think this will be Bottas's year, I expect Lewis to bounce back but it looks like Valteri is finally right up for a challenge.

Have the new wings/regs made overtaking/ following closer any better? Certainly not on the evidence of this race... Verstappen saying that after he got within 1.5 secs his tyres started overheating. Ah well... perhaps back to the drawing board with that one.

What about the point for the fastest lap. Lots of speeding up and slowing down.. but did it improve the spectacle towards the end of the race at all for you?

[gm99]

If you notice, that was my Q1 take.

Sorry, I didn't notice - my mistake!

I'm quite impressed with the Red Bull Honda's pace, at least in the hands of Verstappen. Gasly was a bit useless today. Ricciardo must be kicking himself for leaving that team.

With Ferrari, I don't quite understand why - if they had to employ team orders - they didn't at least pit LeClerc to give him a chance for the fastest lap bonus point.

[The Black Knight]

Wow... When I said "Bottas to shock all of us and destroy Hamilton this year!" on the other thread, I was only joking.. Looks like he finally found his mojo. Has he just had some mental strength coaching by Nicos sports shrink?

No, I dont think this will be Bottas's year, I expect Lewis to bounce back but it looks like Valteri is finally right up for a challenge.

Have the new wings/regs made overtaking/ following closer any better? Certainly not on the evidence of this race... Verstappen saying that after he got within 1.5 secs his tyres started overheating. Ah well... perhaps back to the drawing board with that one.

What about the point for the fastest lap. Lots of speeding up and slowing down.. but did it improve the spectacle towards the end of the race at all for you?

It was ultimately a bad start and floor damage that cost Hamilton this race. Lets not get carried away. Bottas also showed his weak mentality after the race with his "to whom it may concern, fuck you" comment. A truly mentally strong person would not have felt the need to make that comment. It shows the pasting he received last year is still in his head and bothering him so this, he has come back a new man talk being spouted by the media is nothing other than complete and utter nonsense.

From Hamilton’s POV I would not be the least bit concerned about this result.

[zako85]

Lets not get carried away.


Actually, let's get carried away. I mean, what else can we do for the rest of season? Remember how Mercedes sabotaged Hamilton's car in 2016 so that Rosberg could retire with a WDC win? I think Mercedes is doing the same this season again. :-)

[airshifter]

For Albert Park, a fantastic race IMO that shows a lot of potential for the rules changes, along with what looks to be a good or great season for mid pack racing. Though Mercedes seem to have a commanding advantage still (my FGP team is likely screwed) it looks like RB and Ferrari might have a chance at wins here and there.

I was on the fence with the new last lap rule, but not now. It was clear that just about everyone in the top 10 wanted that point in a bad way. Bottas inquired about stopping for new tires, even though the race win was in hand. Ferrari considered it was well, and Max tried to get it on track. It could end up being an influence IMO, with either teams rolling the dice for another stop, or forcing drivers to make a mistake while chasing fast lap.

Gutted for Ricciardo, though it appeared his own doing.

Gasly needs to up his game, and RB might have made a bad decision.

Leclerc had obvious pace on Seb, and I hope Ferrari do actually let him race, though I can give them a pass on this one due to the overall positions likely remaining the same.



I thought some of the trains lower in the pack were boring, but proved that the cars can in fact follow closer and challenge when the track allows. The new DRS worked well also IMO, and didn't offer too large of an advantage. I think on tracks with more passing opportunities the new rules might make for a fun season.



I hope the season pans out, it looks like possibilities for some great racing.

[zako85]

For Albert Park, a fantastic race IMO that shows a lot of potential for the rules changes, along with what looks to be a good or great season for mid pack racing.


Wow, what a truly fantastic stuff. Another great season of mid-pack racing. This will go down as the greatest season of racing in the 2019 Annals of Motorsport.


Gutted for Ricciardo, though it appeared his own doing.

I was thinking the same at first, but after seeing his "crash" again, I disagree. His car's right wheel was over grass only briefly. No driver would expect that this would chop his front wing off. Clearly, the floor and the grass were seriously uneven in that spot.

[airshifter]

I was thinking the same at first, but after seeing his "crash" again, I disagree. His car's right wheel was over grass only briefly. No driver would expect that this would chop his front wing off. Clearly, the floor and the grass were seriously uneven in that spot.

Not to say it was a bad error, as I agree he was barely on the grass. But from the one angle you can see a large drain grate that he went over, and that is what caused the big nose dive and jump that ripped the wing off. I would think that drivers would have noted that drain during the track walk or practice sessions.

[N. Jones]

I think it is sad to say that Kubica's has lost it. Three laps down? At one point he was 1:26:00 behind his teammate!

[Zico]

I think it is sad to say that Kubica's has lost it. Three laps down? At one point he was 1:26:00 behind his teammate!

Yep, that was painful to watch. Unless there is a valid reason for his severe lack of pace that should probably be his last race and Claire needs to call it.

Too harsh? I suppose even replacing him with Alonso or someone of that caliber wouldnt change anything so might as well leave him be.

[Starter]

Yep, that was painful to watch. Unless there is a valid reason for his severe lack of pace that should probably be his last race and Claire needs to call it.

Too harsh? I suppose even replacing him with Alonso or someone of that caliber wouldnt change anything so might as well leave him be.
Yes his race pace was well off, but the team may still need his experience for car development - as they are sadly in need of it.

[COD]

Rallying makes you a better F1 driver too!

Looks a lot like Williams needs to look for a possible replacement for Kubica. Any guesses? Ocon?

[Tazio]

Why can't MoHaas get their pit work squared away? They stuffed it up again. :rolleyes:

​"Maybe Australia just doesn't like me." :spinhead:

Steiner said of the Frenchman's response: "He was disappointed. I spoke with him about it, which is the right thing to do, and apologised because this should not happen.
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/37092/haas-confirm-reason-for-grosjean-dnf/

[Samouri]

It was ultimately a bad start and floor damage that cost Hamilton this race. Lets not get carried away.

From Hamilton’s POV I would not be the least bit concerned about this result.

Absolutely....The poor start by Lewis, and that damaged floor in the front of the left front tire, surely played a role in Hamilton's poor race pace and performance, which enabled Bottas to finish 20 seconds ahead of Lewis. All in all still....a good drive and win by Valtteri.

[Zico]

It was ultimately a bad start and floor damage that cost Hamilton this race. Lets not get carried away. Bottas also showed his weak mentality after the race with his "to whom it may concern, fuck you" comment. A truly mentally strong person would not have felt the need to make that comment. It shows the pasting he received last year is still in his head and bothering him so this, he has come back a new man talk being spouted by the media is nothing other than complete and utter nonsense.

From Hamilton’s POV I would not be the least bit concerned about this result.

My brother and I were actually discussing this before you posted and we said pretty much the same thing. To me It just shows how demoralized and broken he must have become last year to be like this.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if we see a 'crazy' Valteri this year, someone who will try anything to stay in front... maybe like some of Nico's previous antics.

What will happen to someone who seems quite fragile, when Lewis beats him over the season? I'm a bit worried for him. Seeing a sports psychologist probably wouldnt be a bad idea. :/

[N4D13]

I agree that Kubica has looked like crap this weekend, but let's not draw conclusions too quickly, shall we?

I was disappointed with Williams choosing him as I severely doubt that all the time away from competitive racing won't have had any major impacts on his ability, but even so, we definitely cannot judge whether his comeback will be a success or a disaster based on a single weekend. Let's just save our judgment for later. :p

[truefan72]

Rallying makes you a better F1 driver too!

Looks a lot like Williams needs to look for a possible replacement for Kubica. Any guesses? Ocon?

I really was rooting for Kubica to do well, even in a useless car. but this was a bit embarrassing.
I hope it was an issue with the car, otherwise, yeah...they should call ocon or wherlein quickly.

[truefan72]

Why can't MoHaas get their pit work squared away? They stuffed it up again. :rolleyes:

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/37092/haas-confirm-reason-for-grosjean-dnf/

shambolic

[truefan72]

Absolutely....The poor start by Lewis, and that damaged floor in the front of the left front tire, surely played a role in Hamilton's poor race pace and performance, which enabled Bottas to finish 20 seconds ahead of Lewis. All in all still....a good drive and win by Valtteri.

Well, coming home comfortably in p2 with a damaged floor is not a bad consolation prize.
It's gonna be a long season and on days when things don't go your way, you gotta make the best of it and he did.
So I'm not worried about Bottas whatsoever. I will congratulate him on a decent drive and deserving win, but have no delusions that he is any kind of worry to hamilton over the season.
He got a better start than Hamilton and that was that.
Last year, he should have probably gotten his win in Baku, so this is somewhat of a redemption for him. He did get carried away with his radio comments, and i have a funny feeling, they are gonna come back and bite him as a meme later in the year.

[N. Jones]

Excuses. He got beat and Valterri has come to try and dominate.

[journeyman racer]

Bottas also showed his weak mentality after the race with his "to whom it may concern, fuck you" comment. A truly mentally strong person would not have felt the need to make that comment.
On the flipside, his comment shows your weak mentality. Even though he's not speaking to you personally, it's clear that you're taking his comment as though he talking to you.

Clear thinking people who also don't live vicariously through Hamilton like you do, would just take the comment for what it is. A moment ot take a shot at all the know it all plebs, who have a narrow frame in which they view racing, that have taken a massive metaphorical **** on his head the past year.



It shows the pasting he received last year is still in his head and bothering him so this,
Still in his head and bothering him? You mean like Hamilton fans who still think about Rosberg after all these years?



he has come back a new man talk being spouted by the media is nothing other than complete and utter nonsense.
Bottas performance in qualifying was much more potent than any performance of his in his MB career so far (Even more so than when he's taken pole, which has come across as random). 2018 is history, and yesterday's race is now in his mental filing cabinet. Even without a supposed damaged floor, Hamilton's not winning that race. Whatever superiority he had was not much, and it wouldn't have overcome a similar performing car.



From Hamilton’s POV I would not be the least bit concerned about this result.
Maybe. But all of us here know you'll go into a meltdown if it happens a few more times early in the season.



So I'm not worried about Bottas whatsoever. I will congratulate him on a decent drive and deserving win, but...
You know what they say about using the word "but"?



Last year, he should have probably gotten his win in Baku, so this is somewhat of a redemption for him. He did get carried away with his radio comments, and i have a funny feeling, they are gonna come back and bite him as a meme later in the year.
Has anybody else noticed that truefan doesn't refer to Russia?

[The Black Knight]

On the flipside, his comment shows your weak mentality. Even though he's not speaking to you personally, it's clear that you're taking his comment as though he talking to you.

Clear thinking people who also don't live vicariously through Hamilton like you do, would just take the comment for what it is. A moment ot take a shot at all the know it all plebs, who have a narrow frame in which they view racing, that have taken a massive metaphorical **** on his head the past year.



Still in his head and bothering him? You mean like Hamilton fans who still think about Rosberg after all these years?



Bottas performance in qualifying was much more potent than any performance of his in his MB career so far (Even more so than when he's taken pole, which has come across as random). 2018 is history, and yesterday's race is now in his mental filing cabinet. Even without a supposed damaged floor, Hamilton's not winning that race. Whatever superiority he had was not much, and it wouldn't have overcome a similar performing car.



Maybe. But all of us here know you'll go into a meltdown if it happens a few more times early in the season.


You know what they say about using the word "but"?



Has anybody else noticed that truefan doesn't refer to Russia?

Man, I feel so sorry for you. I have not replied to any of your posts in about a year and a half and you still follow me around, badgering me at every opportunity. Take a deep breath, meditate and centre yourself. I take no pleasure in having such power over you.

[The Black Knight]

My brother and I were actually discussing this before you posted and we said pretty much the same thing. To me It just shows how demoralized and broken he must have become last year to be like this.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if we see a 'crazy' Valteri this year, someone who will try anything to stay in front... maybe like some of Nico's previous antics.

What will happen to someone who seems quite fragile, when Lewis beats him over the season? I'm a bit worried for him. Seeing a sports psychologist probably wouldnt be a bad idea. :/

Agreed. Should Hamilton beat him in the next couple of races I suspect it will break Bottas immediately. Hamilton always comes back. Beating him drives him to come back stronger. Beating Bottas, on the other hand, destroys his confidence, as we have seen. Psychologically Bottas is his own worst enemy. I suspect he may have even affected himself by making that comment. He needs to sort that out if he has any chance against Hamilton. Rosberg was mentaly really strong and that’s what got him over the line.

[journeyman racer]

Deflection.

[N4D13]

Truth be told, I'd be extremely surprised if Bottas could beat Hamilton often. The Boss' poor performance might have been due to car damage alone or to one of his off days, which we know he has, but so far we haven't seen anything that suggests that Bottas can keep a high enough level to consistently equal Hamilton, let alone beat him. A single race in which Hamilton took pole and had some sort of justification for being slow in the race (car damage) is not by any means indicative of a change of trend.

[airshifter]

Hard to say where it will go. Lewis would be hard for just about anyone to beat in the last few years, and I think Bottas knew completely that he would be in solid #2 territory when he moved from Williams. But Nico figured it out and took a title in the same car as Lewis, and TBH I think Bottas has shown at least as much racecraft as Rosberg. Probably more really.

But after 2018, he probably had to think that if he doesn't up his game his seat is going to open up. For some that means they throw in the towel. For others, the biggest motivation they often have is fear of losing a good job.

[Nitrodaze]

Yep, that was painful to watch. Unless there is a valid reason for his severe lack of pace that should probably be his last race and Claire needs to call it.

Too harsh? I suppose even replacing him with Alonso or someone of that caliber wouldnt change anything so might as well leave him be.
I think there were two reasons why Kubica had a bad race, firstly, he lost his front wing at the start of the race. Hence, had to go into the pits to have them replaced like Ricciado. He also ran over Ricciado's front wig which may have caused floor damage. I am sure there were other chassis [aero] damage to his car.

[Nitrodaze]

To be fair, we all wanted Bottas to turn up this season and be competitive. He has started the season agressively with a brilliant show of pace and a win to go with it. I think that is great and good luck to him. I think he has made an error of judgement by his radio message which could be a seed for a bitter rivalry this season. I can see Hamilton and some people in the Mercedes garage would not have appreciated that message. I think winning in Mercedes is going to be personal for both drivers from now on. I just hope Bottas would be able to swallow the outcome of this feud.

[Nitrodaze]

I didn't see enough to suggest the new regulation improved overtaking. If anywhere was a good place to test the regulation, the street circuit of Albert Park would been such place. These are the sorts of tracks we were hoping to see the effects of the new regs manifest its self strongly. Unfortunately, the bigger DRS flaps did not produce the surge forward that one had hoped for. It was the reason why Gastly in a faster Redbull struggled to pass Kyvat in a slower Torro Rosso with similar Honda engines.

[The Black Knight]

I didn't see enough to suggest the new regulation improved overtaking. If anywhere was a good place to test the regulation, the street circuit of Albert Park would been such place. These are the sorts of tracks we were hoping to see the effects of the new regs manifest its self strongly. Unfortunately, the bigger DRS flaps did not produce the surge forward that one had hoped for. It was the reason why Gastly in a faster Redbull struggled to pass Kyvat in a slower Torro Rosso with similar Honda engines.

Ross Brawn appears to have felt it did. I can’t say I noticed any real overtaking difference either, except maybe for Max being anle to overtake Vettel but I don’t think that was due to the new rules.

[journeyman racer]

I read the comment on here, and I'm not sure what you guys are watching or how you view racing? N4D13's post is particularly interesting to me.

We haven't seen anything that suggests that Bottas can keep a high enough level to consistently equal Hamilton, let alone beat him?

First of all, there have numerous time in the past couple of years that Bottas has had the better of Hamilton. It's right to recognise if Bottas can carry that level of performance throughout the season, because he hasn't done it before. However there's no question Bottas is capable.

But what is so pitiful about N4D13's comment (And is typical of truefan and TBK) is they don't recognise what's different and how irrelevant their reasons to diminish Bottas' win and how irrelevant their reasons to justify Hamilton's lack of performance are.

Even if the damaged floor hadn't occured, it doesn't change the bottom line. Bottas is winning the race, and he's winning it purposefully. It's just he's winning the race the whole way by 3 secs instead of 20.

What is not recognise is that last weekend is the most assertive performance Bottas has had in his career (Even more so than the other races he's won or should've won). That would be the case even if Hamilton led into the first corner, led all the way and won. Why is this the case? Because if it occurred and Bottas finished second, he would've finished second right behind Hamilton. Not 8secs or 20secs behind Hamilton, right in there behind him.

But some of you are just so warped, that you actually get confused when you see something that doesn't fit in with your prejudiced views. Even if there was no cracked floor, some of you would've just moaned about something else(and looked stupid doing so). You would've said some BS like "It was the tyres" "MB gave Bottas the better strategy".

You get confused like a person who's just found out a relative/friend of theirs has been charged with a heinous crime. "Oh no, you're wrong. You must've confused him with someone else. It can't be them, they're a really good guy and they wouldn't do things like that."

Some fans are just hopeless.

[N4D13]

Some fans are just hopeless.
Hey, at least we agree on something! :D

[journeyman racer]

Hmmm. That post is as good as Bottas' performance last weekend.

[Nitrodaze]

Would it be fair to say all the top drivers except Verstapenn, under-performed at this race. Hamilton had a bad start, Vettel got overtaken by Verstapenn, Ricciado stuffed it on the first lap. The rookies were luke warm l felt. Though, Norris impressed but fell out of the top ten, Russell quietly out-qualified and finished ahead of his more experienced teammate. Gasly was poor at this race by his Torro Rosso standards even. Albon and Giovinazzi finished outside the points while their more experienced teammates were in the top ten positions.

I think Gasly in particular need to up his game or Redbull may well think he is not ready and put Kyvat in his seat.

[The Black Knight]

Would it be fair to say all the top drivers except Verstapenn, under-performed at this race. Hamilton had a bad start, Vettel got overtaken by Verstapenn, Ricciado stuffed it on the first lap. The rookies were luke warm l felt. Though, Norris impressed but fell out of the top ten, Russell quietly out-qualified and finished ahead of his more experienced teammate. Gasly was poor at this race by his Torro Rosso standards even. Albon and Giovinazzi finished outside the points while their more experienced teammates were in the top ten positions.

I think Gasly in particular need to up his game or Redbull may well think he is not ready and put Kyvat in his seat.

Think you’re being a bit harsh on Gasly there. RBR messed up his qualifying so he was always on the backfoot from the start. And RBR have admitted it was their error as they underestimated track evolution. Ricciardo, for me, was the real embarrassment. He is being paid $49 million dollars a year and, for that kind of money, you don’t want to self inflict a wing loss on yourself before the first corner of the first race of the season and your new team, especially since you’ve never been a title contender and only won 7 races in an 8 year career. He has a lot to prove after the hammering he received from his teammate last year and, really, you have to question Renault’s sanity paying out that kinda money for him.

[Nitrodaze]

Think you’re being a bit harsh on Gasly there. RBR messed up his qualifying so he was always on the backfoot from the start. And RBR have admitted it was their error as they underestimated track evolution. Ricciardo, for me, was the real embarrassment. He is being paid $49 million dollars a year and, for that kind of money, you don’t want to self inflict a wing loss on yourself before the first corner of the first race of the season and your new team, especially since you’ve never been a title contender and only won 7 races in an 8 year career. He has a lot to prove after the hammering he received from his teammate last year and, really, you have to question Renault’s sanity paying out that kinda money for him.

I hear your point and have taken that into consideration. I think the team made up for that by operating a strategy that put him ahead of Kyvat. He came out of the pits ahead of Kyvat but was not aggressive enough to hang on to the position advantage. He spent the rest of the race behind Kyvat which was what was poor about his race. That said, l think he would bounce back and show his real pace and racecraft. But that event did not go unnoticed and he has to do better next time l think.

[journeyman racer]

lol Ricciardo has never been a title contender. Sure, but he hasn't had the advantage of being in title contending cars at any stage in his career. He's up there with Hamilton as the best performed driver since the hybrid turbos have been introduce. He's has had seasons where he's driven better than Hamilton, it's just that Hamilton has had a better car. Most notably in 14 & 16, and possibly 17&18 as well. Some great wins last year hampered by chronic unreliability (not 1 or 2), and the only RB to set PP last year.

The initial broken wing was obviously due to his error. But after that I think he should be acknowledged for showing an awareness and skill to avoid a calamity in the first corner. No front wing, cold tyres, and the dirty side of the track. Yet he didn't cause a first corner crash. That cannot be underestimated.

edit: Also, the hammering he copped from his team mate was solely due to reliability. In races they both finished, Ricciardo outscored Verstappen.

[The Black Knight]

Verstappen out qualified Ricciardo 15-5. And he had more points than him at the end of the season. That’s a hammering.

And if you’re not willing to take reliability into account for the reasons behind the destination of the 2016 WDC with Hamilton and Rosberg, where Hamilton had worse reliability, then you can’t cite reliability as a reason for Ricciardo not beating Verstappen simply because it suits you.


I hear your point and have taken that into consideration. I think the team made up for that by operating a strategy that put him ahead of Kyvat. He came out of the pits ahead of Kyvat but was not aggressive enough to hang on to the position advantage. He spent the rest of the race behind Kyvat which was what was poor about his race. That said, l think he would bounce back and show his real pace and racecraft. But that event did not go unnoticed and he has to do better next time l think.

Still only his first race of the season. Yes, he’ll have to do better. But both cars have same engine and are relatively sinilar by design. Again, wouldn’t be too harsh on him. Taking these factors into account he hadn’t the sort of advantage Max had on Sebastien when he passed him. The rule changes may have aided following a car buy not enough to be very harsh on Gasly imo.

[journeyman racer]

Hmm, yes. It's a peculiar type of fan who can compare Hamilton's single mechanical dnf in 2016 (In a race where Rosberg was unfairly impeded on being poleaxed by Vettel, and in a year only Hamilton benefitted from team orders) to the SEVEN mechanical failures Ricciardo copped compared to Verstappen's two.

In Ricciardo had one or two extra mechanical failure and the points margin were still the same, then you could make a point. But as you've demonstrated many time over the years, you have no clue. It's embarrassing, and I'm embarrassed for Lewis Hamilton that a person bereft of motorsport knowledge is attracted to him.

Because you have the limited abilty to put performances in context. I'll show you how an intelligent, knowledgeable motorsport fan summarises the performance and results of the RB drivers in 2018.

Max Verstappen drove mostly well for 2018. He wasn't perfect, but it was his first season where he added a certain consistency to the flair that excites some fans. 4th place with 2 wins was a good effort, and it's something to build on for the future.

Daniel Ricciardo drove well in 2018. He had so many mechanical and non-driver error dnf compared to his rivals above him (8 for him, 10 for the 5 rivals above him), that it clouds the judgment of his output of results.

While he was denied the glory from getting the glory result. There's nothing in his performances otherwise that demonstrate a diminished ability or worthy of being derided. In races they both finished, he outscored Verstappen 158-142. Even though he fell behind in the head to head qualifying 15-5, he was the only one to demonstrate key optimal pace by being the only RB driver to score a PP, and it was 2 PP he scored. 2018 is stop gap year in his career.

[The Black Knight]

You either take the DNF’s into account or you don’t. There’s no in between. The points difference between Hamilton and Rosberg was 5 in the end and Hamilton lost much more than that to Rosberg over the seasons course due to reliability. If you want to be inconsistent in your position, pluck an arbitrary number out of your head, like 1 or 2 for DNF’s not mattering as you just did just because, once again, it suits your narrative, you just come across biased.

So, the DNF’s can either be taken into account evenly across the board or they can be ignored completely, not just taken onboard as and when it suits your narrative.

[airshifter]

You either take the DNF’s into account or you don’t. There’s no in between. The points difference between Hamilton and Rosberg was 5 in the end and Hamilton lost much more than that to Rosberg over the seasons course. If you want to be inconsistent in your position, pluck an arbitrary number out of your head, like 1 or 2 for DNF’s not mattering as you just said just because, once again, it suits your narrative, you just come across inconsistent and biased.

So, the DNF’s can either be taken into account evenly across the board or they can be ignored completely, not just taken onboard as and when it suits your narrative.

Any sane person would always take (non driver related) DNFs into account when viewing driver performance. And for that reason, it's rather ridiculous to state that Riccardo took a hammering. His car broke a lot, and he couldn't overcome the points delta with such an unreliable car. It's really that simple. Kimi had the same fate in the Ferrari, but if you account for the car problems was about at an equal average points per race to Seb. So based on your own twisting of the stats from your statement, maybe Lewis should have retired in 2017. After all, he received a hammering from Nico in 2016. :laugh:

[The Black Knight]

Any sane person would always take (non driver related) DNFs into account when viewing driver performance. And for that reason, it's rather ridiculous to state that Riccardo took a hammering. His car broke a lot, and he couldn't overcome the points delta with such an unreliable car. It's really that simple. Kimi had the same fate in the Ferrari, but if you account for the car problems was about at an equal average points per race to Seb. So based on your own twisting of the stats from your statement, maybe Lewis should have retired in 2017. After all, he received a hammering from Nico in 2016. :laugh:

Agreed and that’s my point. You have to take them into account but you then can’t pick and choose when you take them into account. So if you take them into account with Ricciardo, it follows you must take them into account for Lewis and Rosberg. Journeyman doesn’t do that, simply plucks some arbitrary number of retirements that don’t matter off the top of his head (whatever suits him) and carries on.

The point is, if you want to evaluate using this approach you must apply it to all evaluations consistently, especially for teammates.

So if it should be taken into account for Ricciardo last year, it also follows that it should be taken into account when evaluating why the 2016 drivers title ended up where it did and that would be a consistent evaluation.


Since Journeyman is desparate for my attention the last year and a half, all I did here was take the logic he took towards Hamilton and Rosberg and applied it to Ricciardo and Verstappen knowing wholly that he would rush to Ricciardo’s defence using reliability as an excuse. I gave the poor fella the tidbit he has been vying for, just for my own temporary entertainment. As he’s super predictable he took the bait. Angry people are the easiest to manipulate, you see.

So he can either apply his approach consistently, in which case, if he takes reliability into the equation, he must concede it also played a part in the 2016 title, otherwise he must concede that it played no part in which case it cannot be used for evaluating Verstappen and Ricciardo last year either.

I’m happy with either approach. I’ve had my bit of fun with him either way.

[truefan72]

Any sane person would always take (non driver related) DNFs into account when viewing driver performance. And for that reason, it's rather ridiculous to state that Riccardo took a hammering. His car broke a lot, and he couldn't overcome the points delta with such an unreliable car. It's really that simple. Kimi had the same fate in the Ferrari, but if you account for the car problems was about at an equal average points per race to Seb. So based on your own twisting of the stats from your statement, maybe Lewis should have retired in 2017. After all, he received a hammering from Nico in 2016. :laugh:

And Remember, for the first half of the year, Ricciardo had Verstappen's Number and was ahead in the points. The Qualy stat is less meaningful to me than the race performances. And tbh on most race days in 2019 it was sorta evident that RBR had an unbalanced playing field. Verstappen may have better potential but as of right now I think Ricciardo is the better driver, given equal machinery etc. In 2019 that was absolutely not the case for Riccardo and he suffered because of that in the 2nd half of the season (coincidentally, after he announced his move from RBR to renault). Black Knight, you and I are pretty much on the same page in most cases, but I'll disagree with you on this one.
http://www.dsev.com/img/RBR2018F1.jpg
Look at the points up until Hungary before the summer break:
Ricciardo 118 with 2 wins - 4 ret.
Verstappen 105 with 1 win - 3 ret.

After the summer break (and after his august 3rd announcement)
Ricciardo immediately has 2 back to back retirements then another pair of back to backs in USA and Mexico
This resulted in a total of 8 retirements for the 2018 campaign, along with shaite strategies for him in the 2nd half of the year as the team really didn't care about him.

[airshifter]

Agreed and that’s my point. You have to take them into account but you then can’t pick and choose when you take them into account. So if you take them into account with Ricciardo, it follows you must take them into account for Lewis and Rosberg. Journeyman doesn’t do that, simply plucks some arbitrary number of retirements that don’t matter off the top of his head (whatever suits him) and carries on.

The point is, if you want to evaluate using this approach you must apply it to all evaluations consistently, especially for teammates.

So if it should be taken into account for Ricciardo last year, it also follows that it should be taken into account when evaluating why the 2016 drivers title ended up where it did and that would be a consistent evaluation.


Since Journeyman is desparate for my attention the last year and a half, all I did here was take the logic he took towards Hamilton and Rosberg and applied it to Ricciardo and Verstappen knowing wholly that he would rush to Ricciardo’s defence using reliability as an excuse. I gave the poor fella the tidbit he has been vying for, just for my own temporary entertainment. As he’s super predictable he took the bate. Angry people are the easiest to manipulate, you see.

So he can either apply his approach consistently, in which case, if he takes reliability into the equation, he must concede it also played a part in the 2016 title, otherwise he must concede that it played no part in which case it cannot be used for evaluating Verstappen and Ricciardo last year either.

I’m happy with either approach. I’ve had my bit of fun with him either way.


But you were quick to defend Lewis yet trash Ricciardo. Surely a driver doing damage to the floor is driver error, just the same way as Daniel trashing the wing was his fault? Doesn't Lewis get paid enough to not smash into curbs and trash the car? Similar to DNF's you either take driver error as a factor or you don't. Though you claim to be seemingly trolling Journeyman Racer, it seems you have your own set of rules as well.

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if any of you have seen the Mercedes Twitter podcasts after the Australian GP. They answer questions put to the team after the race and explain the reasons for why certain things happen during the race. They are the only team having a go at being very transparent with their fans at the moment. Initially, l thought it was brilliant but then later, l thought it took away from the speculative conversations that take place in forums about events during the race. While it appears great, l think it may hamper the dialogues of forum communities. If you are going to spoon fed the info, why bother chatting about it.

I think Mercedes should not be too sensitive to the potential for forum threads to woefully get things wrong. That is the point of forums. Speculative to the point of conspiracy theories. But great fun to have the banter even when some are annoying and others are plain rude. But generally, a very respectful and and easy going racing communities. Hence, l think the podcast is an overkill. Let the people get it right or wrong, c'est la vie.

[The Black Knight]

But you were quick to defend Lewis yet trash Ricciardo. Surely a driver doing damage to the floor is driver error, just the same way as Daniel trashing the wing was his fault? Doesn't Lewis get paid enough to not smash into curbs and trash the car? Similar to DNF's you either take driver error as a factor or you don't. Though you claim to be seemingly trolling Journeyman Racer, it seems you have your own set of rules as well.

We don’t know for certain what caused the damage to Lewis floor. But yes, I’m quite happy to put that down as a black mark against Lewis as, unless the kerb was loose, then it would be his fault for running wide to begin. I was viewing onboard with him the first ten laps and don’t remember seeing him go off but I may have missed it as wasn’t watching his onboard 100% of the time.

[The Black Knight]

And Remember, for the first half of the year, Ricciardo had Verstappen's Number and was ahead in the points. The Qualy stat is less meaningful to me than the race performances. And tbh on most race days in 2019 it was sorta evident that RBR had an unbalanced playing field. Verstappen may have better potential but as of right now I think Ricciardo is the better driver, given equal machinery etc. In 2019 that was absolutely not the case for Riccardo and he suffered because of that in the 2nd half of the season (coincidentally, after he announced his move from RBR to renault). Black Knight, you and I are pretty much on the same page in most cases, but I'll disagree with you on this one.
http://www.dsev.com/img/RBR2018F1.jpg
Look at the points up until Hungary before the summer break:
Ricciardo 118 with 2 wins - 4 ret.
Verstappen 105 with 1 win - 3 ret.

After the summer break (and after his august 3rd announcement)
Ricciardo immediately has 2 back to back retirements then another pair of back to backs in USA and Mexico
This resulted in a total of 8 retirements for the 2018 campaign, along with shaite strategies for him in the 2nd half of the year as the team really didn't care about him.

You’re not really getting my point. The point is you can either take reliability into account or you can set it aside. If you’re taking it onboard, all of what you say is valid just as it’s valid to state that reliability decided the 2016 title. Otherwise, you must ignore the DNF’s and just look at the points conveniently ignoring the reasons behind it to reach the conclusions you want.

[truefan72]

You’re not really getting my point. The point is you can either take reliability into account or you can set it aside. If you’re taking it onboard, all of what you say is valid. Otherwise, you must ignore the DNF’s and just look at the points conveniently ignoring the reasons behind it to reach the conclusions you want.

Maybe we are 2 ships sailing past each other in the fog. I hear you and from my perspective, I take the reliability and other mitigating factors into account.
It's funny how a certain unnamed member will defend Ricciardo's performance in 2018 and summarily dismiss the same points and reasons (most importantly reliability) for Hamilton in 2016.
lol. Anyways, we are all good now that I get where you are coming from. cheers

[The Black Knight]

Maybe we are 2 ships sailing past each other in the fog. I hear you and from my perspective, I take the reliability and other mitigating factors into account.
It's funny how a certain unnamed member will defend Ricciardo's performance in 2018 and summarily dismiss the same points and reasons (most importantly reliability) for Hamilton in 2016.
lol. Anyways, we are all good now that get where you are coming from. cheers

Bingo ;)

[Starter]

After the summer break (and after his august 3rd announcement)
Ricciardo immediately has 2 back to back retirements then another pair of back to backs in USA and Mexico
This resulted in a total of 8 retirements for the 2018 campaign, along with shaite strategies for him in the 2nd half of the year as the team really didn't care about him.
I don't think it's quite accurate to say the team didn't care about him. After all there was a whole lot of money in play based on constructor's points. To say he was relegated to definite number two status is more on point.

[Starter]

I wonder if any of you have seen the Mercedes Twitter podcasts after the Australian GP. They answer questions put to the team after the race and explain the reasons for why certain things happen during the race. They the only team having a go at being very transparent with their fans at the moment. Initially,. l thought it was brilliant but then later, l thought it took away from the speculative conversations that take place in forums about events during the race. While it appears great, l think it may hamper the dialogues od forum communities. If you are going to spoon fed the info, why bother chatting about it.

I think Mercedes should not be too sensitive to the potential for forum threads to woefully get things wrong. That is the point of forums. Speculative to the point of conspiracy theories. But great fun to have the banter even when some are annoying and others are plain rude. But generally, a very respectful and and easy going racing communities. Hence, l think the podcast is an overkill. Let the people get it right or wrong, c'est la vie.
Perhaps it's because I live on the west side of the Atlantic that I don't believe anything any person or organization puts out on the internet without seeing independent corroboration from other sources.

[The Black Knight]

I don't think it's quite accurate to say the team didn't care about him. After all there was a whole lot of money in play based on constructor's points. To say he was relegated to definite number two status is more on point.

Can you provide an example to support this claim?

[journeyman racer]

Ok, you've twisted my arm. Taking into mechanical failures, Nico Rosberg wins the 2016 Monaco GP. If he didn't have a faulty car, MB wouldn't have applied team orders to benefit Hamilton. As Ricciardo proved last year, you can have a significantly faulty and still defend your position for a large portion of the race.

To say that Ricciardo was hammered by Verstappen is to say that Ricciardo has been diminished. But he's not diminished, and is still recognised as a top tier driver.

Feel free to analyse all of Ricciardo's dnf and speculate where he would/could've finished had they not occurred. I'll be interested to read it.

[Zico]

No way Ricciardo has diminished. .
95%+ of it is all about the car so going to Renault won't do his reputation any favours. 45 million dollars is also a bit much (I'd rather spend that money on Neweys services..) but If I was a boss in a top team I'd seriously consider him. Put it this way.. I'd choose him before Vettel.

I think Starter was bang on the money in saying Danny was relegated to No2 status at RB. Despite any concrete evidence/admissions its pretty clear to most people thats what happened

[Bagwan]

Apparently , Max is a narcissist , and Hamilton has frizzy hair .

[Nitrodaze]

Apparently , Max is a narcissist , and Hamilton has frizzy hair .

How did you work that one out Baggie!

[Bagwan]

How did you work that one out Baggie!

Because i read that someone said that , and that he took his cornrows out .

[Tazio]

:angel::angel::angel::angel:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-6855533/Lewis-Hamilton-shows-long-frizzy-locks-unbraiding-cornrows.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-6855533/Lewis-Hamilton-shows-long-frizzy-locks-unbraiding-cornrows.html)

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/03/27/11/11515768-6855533-image-m-115_1553684492939.jpg

Acording to Nico Rosberg:

"If you look up 'narcissist' in the dictionary, you will find Max Verstappen," said Rosberg. "Still, it works for him because he has a lot of talent. And because of that, he is still successful. Being extremely narcissistic can be a force, and perhaps the most powerful characteristic you can have."
"How can you not doubt yourself? if you make the same mistake six times? And the seventh time you do the same."
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/33548/nico-rosberg-calls-max-verstappen-a-narcissist-.html

[journeyman racer]

Two weeks after the AGP, I'm back walking through Albert Park. To those of you unfamiliar with cricket, the Sheffield Shield Final (Effectively, the Australian Cricket Championship final) is being held over thurs-sun at the Junction Oval. The JO is a ground beside the circuit, and the runoff at t13 lines the boundary of the ground. It's interest to see the effects of the GP being dismantled as we speak.

[Starter]

Two weeks after the AGP, I'm back walking through Albert Park. To those of you unfamiliar with cricket, the Sheffield Shield Final (Effectively, the Australian Cricket Championship final) is being held over thurs-sun at the Junction Oval. The JO is a ground beside the circuit, and the runoff at t13 lines the boundary of the ground. It's interest to see the effects of the GP being dismantled as we speak.
It's always kind of sad to see a street circuit being taken down. Knowing it'll be a year before the next event there.