Rally2-kit (ex R4) News & Results

[Sulland]

We are getting close to see R4 cars driven in anger. So we can leave the thinktank thread, and start posting R4 stuff in this one.

When is the first rallies where we will see R4 kit used, will it be 1st ERC round?

[Andre Oliveira]

Allready runned.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/46395-rallye-ciudad-de-granada-2018/

[Jarek Z]

Allready runned.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/46395-rallye-ciudad-de-granada-2018/

Is this the only appearance of a homologated R4 car in the history of rallying?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, only a course car to Sarrazin before

[Adam]

Several companies are currently building R4 cars but I'm almost sure that they won't be ready for Azores Rally.

One is ready (Fiat 500x from Milano Racing) and probably it's not for ERC but for French Championship

[tommeke_B]

The Fiat 500X from Milano Racing has a program for the French gravel championship. Vincent Dubert will drive it, he's a well known driver from the French DS3 Trophy. Should be fast enough to show the car's potential. :)

[Andre Oliveira]

In Portugal soon we will have Mitsubishi Mirage R4 ready.

[Jarek Z]

The Fiat 500X from Milano Racing has a program for the French gravel championship.

Now the Fiat 500X R4 from Milano Racing has a program in the Italian gravel championship, too. Nicolas Ciamin should be good enough to show potential of the new car.

Sources:
https://www.rally.it/2019/02/ciamin-nel-campionato-italiano-terra
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/ciamin-avec-la-mr500x-r4-en-italie/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dl1q6tjXgAAqkNx.jpg

[Adam.]

Should be fast enough to show the car's potential. :)

I had a codrive with Stephane Sarrazin in Etios R4 and I have to say that it has a potential :-)

[Jarek Z]

The Fiat 500X from Milano Racing has a program for the French gravel championship. Vincent Dubert will drive it, he's a well known driver from the French DS3 Trophy. Should be fast enough to show the car's potential. :)

Entry list for the first round of the french gravel championship, Rallye terre des Causses, has been published. Vincent Dubert and his Fiat 500X are present with number 21, but with such entry list he has no chance for a good result:
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/liste-des-engages-rallye-terre-des-causses-2019/

[br21]

I'll be there and will have a look at that 500X

[Sulland]

Good debut, even took the checkered flag.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/55022-rallye-terre-des-causses-2019/?s=224245

https://www.facebook.com/abarth124rally/

[vino_93]

Hergen Fekken will start Rally South Africa with new Toyota Etios R4, realized by Rally Technic (RSA) : https://www.wheels24.co.za/Motorsport/toyota-gazoo-racing-all-set-for-round-2-action-at-the-sa-national-rally-champs-20190425

[br21]

I think it's not new car, but Orecas test car.

[HaCo]

That 500x looks really nice, okay it is sub-R5, but it's a really nice fieldfiller and maybe close to the Mitsus which still run. I hope more R4 to come, Nissan Micra please! :D

[Mirek]

First overall victory for R4 by Fekken? Not much of opposition there though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@rikutahko's team has been building a new R4 Kit spec Mini which is promised to see its competitive debut in the next @RalliSM event @RiihimakiRalli at the end of May. Photos from Tahko's https://t.co/vTtDKSPUjy

[Mirek]

First R4 is being built in Czech Republic - Suzuki Swift. It shall be ready in October.

[Mirek]

More information from Czech paper magazin Rally:

Global Motorsport CZ (Tomáš Pletka who in the past run DS3 R3 cup or some DS3 R3 cars in JWRC) in cooperation with Oreca is preparing distribution of ready-to-race Suzuki Swift R4 cars for Central Europe (no kit as according to Pletka the process of scanning and building of the bodyshell is the most difficult part of it). The car will be presented on Barum Rally but not yet ready to compete (likely available for taxi test drive though). They are in talks to have the Toyota Etios R4 instead in Barum to compete.

They offer the car ready to race for 185 thousand Euro (including seats, safety equipment, 5 tyres etc.). The running cost is calculated to 38 Eur/km but they claim they are confident it can be even less because no parts need to be send anywhere abroad for service. They offer also Sadev transmission parts. The car can be delivered with either Reiger or PKM dampers.

They plan to create a one make cup for Swift R4 in Czech Republic.

As for spec. they claim the near stock engine has 263 Hp and 390 Nm with 98 octane stock fuel. ECU is Magneti Marelli SRG-340. Gearbox and differentials are Sadev from R5.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

FIA confirmed the eligibility of cars equipped with the FIA R4 Kit, designed and manufactured by ORECA, for the WRC from 2020.

More information here: https://t.co/FEEimMnHgd https://t.co/E8bpDnn8Ga

[Tarmop]

So it is around 1000-2000 euros cheaper per national rally than a R5 car...plus a slightly cheaper " catalogue-price". Wouldn`t call it a saviour of 4wd rallying at a budget price.

[Sulland]

I think the prices are as follows

Price of new ready to rally R5 aprox 230 000 euro
Price of new ready to rally R4 aprox 185 000 euro
Difference 45 000 Euro

40% less running cost

7 year fixed homologation, no expensive jokers for 7 years to stay competitive!

All i all a good chunk cheaper to buy and run.

Oreca Kit price went from 108 000 to 85 000 euros!! And they are still well over buildcost. So maybe if many sold, kit price can drop again.

Now the car can also be used in all rallies on the globe, also in the World Campionship.

[Tarmop]

Wasn`t it fixed that a R5 has the price of 50 eur per SS/km, whereas this Swift is going to be 38 eur? That is far from 40% i`d say. Then there is that buying price, R5 doesn`t have to be a new one to be competitive in many national championships (different story in global championships yes but still far more competitive than a R4, which they have to fight against).

Now, you buy a used R5 around that same 185k marker, older ones even less and do a national event in it, they are around 100km-200km i believe, mostly? Difference in saved money: R4 is 1200-2400 eur cheaper. But still expensive and not as competitive to go for the OA win...

Then there are protos with km/eur around 20.-, some even claim 12.

[Mirek]

50 Euro/km for R5? Where did You come to such value?

[Tarmop]

Was on one R4 supplier (or was it proto?) website based in Czech republic.

[Mirek]

There is no Proto supplier in CZ and only one R4 supplier who did not claim anything about R5 as far as I know.

But I think I found Your source. Van den Heuvel is claiming in his comparison that the Dytko Proto car costs 15 Eur/km and the R5 50 Eur/km. For me both values seem to be too low but maybe I am wrong.

[Tarmop]

Yup it was a NL name ideed, probably the same. Don`t know where i got that Czech part.:)

[Sulland]

I guess that few knows the real sskm running cost on R4 yet.

But for R5 there for sure is enough data awailable. What is the rule of thumb for R5 running cost?

[Jarek Z]

Finnish driver Riku Tahko was second overall in his debut at the wheel of Mini Cooper R4 in Kalpalinnan Rallisprint.
Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/59574-kalpalinnan-rallisprint-2019/
Photo:
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/riku_isokoko.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Here's a video of Kalle Rovanperä testing his Fabia R5 and Riku Tahko driving his Mini Cooper R4. Mini Cooper starts at 5m 19s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2c8YbZ-3ng&t=5m19s

[pantealex]

Finnish driver Riku Tahko was second overall in his debut at the wheel of Mini Cooper R4 in Kalpalinnan Rallisprint.
Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/59574-kalpalinnan-rallisprint-2019/
Photo:
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/riku_isokoko.jpg

Winner was driving with 400+ HP EVO.

[Sulland]

Could one of our Finish friends translate the content of Riku Tahko's comments on the car int the interview?

[Jarek Z]

Onboard video of Riku Tahko driving MINI Cooper R4 on Kalpalinna Rallisprint 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbTCvas12c

[Adam.]

There is no Proto supplier in CZ and only one R4 supplier who did not claim anything about R5 as far as I know.

But I think I found Your source. Van den Heuvel is claiming in his comparison that the Dytko Proto car costs 15 Eur/km and the R5 50 Eur/km. For me both values seem to be too low but maybe I am wrong.

You're not wrong, even R2 cars are more expensive than 15/km...

[Tarmop]

Well, how often you change the tires, what fuel you use and what spec. your proto is running in. I can imagine a basic proto running 98 fuel, doing 15 eur per SS km.

[Adam.]

I can imagine

Yes, this is true. You can imagine.. Have you ever seen an offer like this ? Group N cars are more expensive

[Tarmop]

I have, yes, quite few old Gr.N for rent, with almost std. spec. They are ofc. not very competitive and hence not comparable in that way, but it`s possible. And essentially, what are Protos based on....

[elmerim]

I think this cost/km discussion is affected with the fact that some sources are talking about cost of running your own car, and some are talking about cost of renting a car.

[Mirek]

Yes, this is true. You can imagine.. Have you ever seen an offer like this ? Group N cars are more expensive

Running cost and rental cost are two different things.

[Sulland]

Swift teaser
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3FE2Z-B1jY

[Andre Oliveira]

Hyundai i20 R4 from Rally Technic (RSA)

https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67304660_2801022049927204_1187550730697834496_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQl-rYpk2cwoIMv-ol7MXF2YVEikRw1378LbX33Aa4QlNzh0PkQJEQbBzglqz-zdV4M&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=1af91b10c6a09199050b875462e5fe30&oe=5DA2422C
https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67080416_2801022159927193_3186014634322690048_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQlH_WIaTOqokegfo1m8YS4d_W8eGwJE4K801BlDarS qWN7r4VsmlzCztF2O5epZErQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=36b429630fbb317ff6710a9a1ad7f84c&oe=5DB85EB1
https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67500571_2801022239927185_4342010446455242752_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlh7MYKhrfmvRk9q-166fRUTCaj80ff57tY2TqD518oD1ShYyTXsIbvAyDEkFP8aKg&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=ee3019cc98a570a791103988bf2aa2fe&oe=5DAA69E9

[Andre Oliveira]

FIA R4 (what i know 2 months ago, should be more now)

Oreca from France
1 Toyota Etios R4

Milano Racing from France
3 Fiat MR500X R4

Rally Technic from South Africa
1 Hyundai i20 R4
(+4 kits for Hyundai i20 R4 and Mazda 2 R4)

ASM Motorsport from Spain
1 Dacia Sandero R4
(+ Dacia Sandero R4, Ford Fiesta MK8 R4, Renault Clio R4 and Audi A1 R4)

FORS Performance from France
(Renault Clio R4)

Evolve Motorsport from Poland
1 Mini Cooper S R4
1 Toyota Yaris R4
(+ Toyota Yaris R4)

Pro Racing from Lithuania
(Škoda Fabia R4)

Signed Streets Motorsport - Team WIET from Austria
1 Audi A1 R4

RMC Motorsport from Spain
(Renault Clio R4)

RC Competicion from Argentina
(Toyota Etios R4)

Slowly growing...

[Jarek Z]

Fiat 500x R4 from Milano Racing curently holding 8th in Terre de Langres, with a nice 5th time in the last stage:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/55025-rallye-terre-de-langres-haute-marne-2019/

Finally Fiat 500x R4 finished in the 6th position overall, but... this rally has some strange motocross-like stages ;)
Have a look:
https://www.facebook.com/239379753288379/videos/633459930496432/

[Zeakiwi2]

video of south african r4 workshop back in april
Interview with Oreca guy at 12.30 minutes. beard and glasses.

https://youtu.be/cOF_pZVnOUo

[Sulland]

video of south african r4 workshop back in april
Interview with Oreca guy at 12.30 minutes. beard and glasses.

https://youtu.be/cOF_pZVnOUo

Cool guys, and good film!

[Rally Power]

It’s great to see R4 finally raising interest, with new exciting cars from private tuners adding more diversity to the sport. It also allows bringing back brands that were away for a long time and others that are new to the sport. Well done!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oreca:
Tomorrow the Mini R4 will have the privilege of taking the start of the first stage of the @RallyFinland. 2.31 kilometres long, the Super Special Harju 1 will see the Mini R4 drove by @rikutahko kicks off the ninth round of the @OfficialWRC. https://t.co/gnbf45lN8x

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA519ZNXsAYShYn?format=jpg&name=medium

[HaCo]

Nice!!!

[Mirek]

According to Tomáš Pletka from Global Motorsport the premiere of Suzuki Swift R4 will happen during Rally Madrid in November.

[Rally Power]

According to Tomáš Pletka from Global Motorsport the premiere of Suzuki Swift R4 will happen during Rally Madrid in November.

That’s interesting. According to the spanish importer, their Swift R4 is going to be built by Oreca itself; will Global Motorsport use the same version or will their work on another one? It seems different tuners can make their own R4 version of the same base model, once homologations are made through local ASN’s.

[Mirek]

That’s interesting. According to the spanish importer, their Swift R4 is going to be built by Oreca itself; will Global Motorsport use the same version or will their work on another one? It seems different tuners can make their own R4 version of the same base model, once homologations are made through local ASN’s.

It will be the same car I believe. Global Motorsport has a license for central European Countries. Pletka said they would get bodyshells with rollcage from Oreca and make the rest of the assembly themselves. They will provide also full service for all parts.

[Rally Power]

It will be the same car I believe. Global Motorsport has a license for central European Countries. Pletka said they would get bodyshells with rollcage from Oreca and make the rest of the assembly themselves. (...)

Ok, it makes sense to use Oreca car. Just hope the R4 models Oreca will build won't be much faster than those developed by private tuneurs; that would ruin R4 spirit.

[Zeakiwi2]

What is the sentiment/ feeling in Europe for the R4 cars now?
Are teams with smaller budgets looking at a new R4 project rather than buying a used R5 etc?

[Mirek]

IMHO very few teams think about R4. In Europe it can work only if R4 cars have dedicated cups created withing the championships.

[Andre Oliveira]

In Portugal we have a national title to R4. No one yet :(

[Sulland]

R4 kits came too late for 2019, most plans were layed when it came.

For 2020 we will have R4 in ERC 2, as the class where everyone will be privateers.
A full series will cost quite a bit less than in ERC 1, so lets hope we will have 5-10 cars there.

R4 can also be driven in all WRC rallies, so for up and coming drivers, R4 will be a better startplace for many.

The tech rules are set for several years, so you dont have to invest in expensive jokers as in R5.

[Mise]

Riku Tahko driving his Mini Cooper S R4 in Finnish Championship rally.
Results are in here
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/54870-mad-croc-sm-ralli-salo-turku-2019/
or
http://www.rallism.fi/content/fi/3/20238/Livetulokset.html?refresh=yes

[Sulland]

Mini retired, but showed some good times.

How good is Riku as a driver, Is he good enough to take out the cars potential?

[Jarek Z]

Mini retired, but showed some good times.

Good times? He was in the 21st position, behind 7 R2 cars:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/54870-mad-croc-sm-ralli-salo-turku-2019/?s=248946

[Sulland]

Ok, agreed.
Maybe he need to borrow the mini to Kalle, Grønholm or Hirvonen, jut to get the car sorted and the set up right.

[pantealex]

Ok, agreed.
Maybe he need to borrow the mini to Kalle, Grønholm or Hirvonen, jut to get the car sorted and the set up right.

Tahko is quite good driver, car just isn´t ready.

[Jarek Z]

Daniel Marban at the wheel of the new Dacia Sandero R4 was second overall in Rallysprint de Cobeña (Spain).

source:
http://www.revistascratch.com/reg-madrid/noticia/daniel-marban-estrena-el-dacia-sandero-r4-con-un-segundo-puesto-en-cobena-52994

photo:
http://staticv2.revistascratch.com//images/noticia/daniel-marban-estrena-el-dacia-sandero-r4-con-un-segundo-puesto-en-cobena_full.jpg

[Jarek Z]

A week later Daniel Marban was 10th overall in Rallye Ciudad de Granada, a round of Spanish gravel championship. He couldn't keep up with the pace of Sebastien Loeb ;)

Final results:
1. Sébastien Loeb/Daniel Elena (F/MC) Hyundai i20 Coupé WRC 1:05.11,9
2. Xevi Pons/Rodrigo Sanjuan (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +2.32,1
3. Javier Pardo/Adrián Pérez (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.36,9
4. Alexander Villanueva/Antonio Pintor (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.17,4
5. Gorka Eizmendi/Diego Sanjuan (E) Ford Fiesta R5 +5.51,9
6. Surhayen Pernía/Alba Sánchez (E) Hyundai i20 R5 +6.26,0
7. Juan Carlos Quintana/Rogelio Peñate (E) Citroën DS3 N5 +6.51,8
8. Alfredo Tamés/Ramón Suárez (E) Ford Fiesta N5 +7.01,6
9. Fran Cima/Alain Peña (E) Renault Clio N5 +7.21,4
10. Daniel Marbán/Victor Ferrero (E) Dacia Sandero R4 +10.13,5

photo:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHLyLwKXkAAl_xj.jpg

[PLuto]

A week later Daniel Marban was 10th overall in Rallye Ciudad de Granada, a round of Spanish gravel championship. He couldn't keep up with the pace of Sebastien Loeb ;)

Final results:
1. Sébastien Loeb/Daniel Elena (F/MC) Hyundai i20 Coupé WRC 1:05.11,9
2. Xevi Pons/Rodrigo Sanjuan (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +2.32,1
3. Javier Pardo/Adrián Pérez (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.36,9
4. Alexander Villanueva/Antonio Pintor (E) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.17,4
5. Gorka Eizmendi/Diego Sanjuan (E) Ford Fiesta R5 +5.51,9
6. Surhayen Pernía/Alba Sánchez (E) Hyundai i20 R5 +6.26,0
7. Juan Carlos Quintana/Rogelio Peñate (E) Citroën DS3 N5 +6.51,8
8. Alfredo Tamés/Ramón Suárez (E) Ford Fiesta N5 +7.01,6
9. Fran Cima/Alain Peña (E) Renault Clio N5 +7.21,4
10. Daniel Marbán/Victor Ferrero (E) Dacia Sandero R4 +10.13,5

photo:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHLyLwKXkAAl_xj.jpg

He was also slower than N5 cars :(

[m-ast]

He was also slower than N5 cars :(

I think that this result was what I expected for it, N5 cars have developed during those years running, altough all the N5 that were in Granda are from RMC (and ARV ones suchs as the Suzuki are also more developed), otherwise there are some problems in final scrutineering with one of the N5 that was sealed for further inspection

[Sulland]

The good thing is that the tempo is ok, and that it reaches the checkered flag.
They will get fine tuned after drivers get to know it, and tuners get data from rallies.

I still mean R4 is a perfect car for regional and national series. Also new R3awd! :D

[Rally Power]

He was also slower than N5 cars :(

It’s fair to say that Marban is a tarmac specialist with little gravel experience. At the same event Pryce was P2 last year (only behind Pons Fabia R5) on R4’s world debut.

[HaCo]

The Sandero is in the Condroz Rally this weekend:
https://www.facebook.com/enseignesplexi/photos/a.642638545778034/3157741010934429/?type=3&theater

[HaCo]

Jupsin Florian was finally 35th in the Condroz Rally. I heard an interview with him on the radio. He said he was happy with the chassis, but the car lacks power. He thinks it is limited too much, and only for it not beating R5 category cars (he thinks). He hopes this will improve.

Hope we will see some video footage of the car going through the dirty slipery roads of the Condroz Rally. First appearance of an R4 in Belgium.

[PLuto]

R4 was not made to beat R5 cars. It should be cheaper version for 4WD, to replace Mitsubishis and Subarus. On the other hand, it is difficult to judge performance of the car with this driver behind the wheel...

[HaCo]

R4 was not made to beat R5 cars. It should be cheaper version for 4WD, to replace Mitsubishis and Subarus. On the other hand, it is difficult to judge performance of the car with this driver behind the wheel...

Was thinking the same about the last part.

[tommeke_B]

The set-up of the Dacia didn't look right. The car was way too low, hitting the ground everywhere, and often reacting strangely. And all respect to the driver, but I'd like to see this car again with a proven driver with a decent set-up. :) It certainly looks far more entertaining than a "classic" group N car, but with the price tag it has, I don't expect to see a lot of them...

[Sulland]

Dacia R4 in action picks
https://www.facebook.com/asmmotorsport/photos/pcb.972473483114691/972471996448173/?type=3&theater

[Andre Oliveira]

Suzuki Swift R4LLY S

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJu8n5rXkAEBKb2?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJu8n54XUAAFwpO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJu82vyWwAE0cGC?format=jpg&name=large

[Adam.]

Riku Tahko snow test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzDr8A4wuM&t=65s

[tommeke_B]

http://planetemarcus.com/la-fiat-500x-r4-au-monte-carlo-avec-astier/?fbclid=IwAR2lvv7ud8NLWBAjjCjbfzXVpvQULRXgVza5xdDB WGmazMqkEBqlCQ3ti24

Astier with 500X R4 in Monte Carlo.

[HaCo]

Riku Tahko snow test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzDr8A4wuM&t=65s

This is maybe also worth watching, the Mini R4kit on tarmac for show:
https://youtu.be/pApOgh25AhE

[Adam.]

This is maybe also worth watching, the Mini R4kit on tarmac for show:
https://youtu.be/pApOgh25AhE

it's on gravel suspension ;-)

[Rally Power]

First rally test of the Swift R4; the car was developed and built by Oreca for Suzuki spain; it will mainly run the CERA (local tarmac championship) in 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_-ZTCvWvk

[pantealex]

Riku Tahko is entered to Finnish Championship series with MINI one (Rally2+Kit)
SM2 is class, same as Gr.N Mitsu/Subaru (ex.R5 cars are SM1 class)
First event Arctic Lapland Rally 17-18th January

[Sulland]

We have two R4s in Monte this year. a Fiat 500x and a Dacia Sandero.
They went very different in the SD, but could be reasons for that.

Lets hope they both see the checkered flag so they can collect good data for the teams and Oreca.

Not sure of the driver quality, since I know none of them. Anyone that knows more here?

I think the Fiat have come futher in their development curve, but lets see.

[TheFlyingTuga]

@sulland Raphael Astier if I'm not mistaken used to drive for Peugeot and it is a fast driver.

[PLuto]

@sulland Raphael Astier if I'm not mistaken used to drive for Peugeot and it is a fast driver.

Raphael Astier has plenty of experience with R2, RGT and last year whole season with R5 in France. Good and fast driver. With the respect to Ermanno Dionisio with Dacia, no chance to compare this two drivers in terms of quality...

[Sulland]

Borrowed from the postugese thread:

Suzuki Ibérica in 2 Portugues Rallys with the new Swift R4lly S (Rali Serras de Fafe and Castelo Branco).
Also in Portugal Rally (WRC)

https://www.laregion.es/articulo/mas...641920500.html (https://www.laregion.es/articulo/mas-motor/suzuki-ourense-copa-mundial-pardo-nuevo-swift-r4lly/20200123123641920500.html)

[dupanton]

@sulland Raphael Astier if I'm not mistaken used to drive for Peugeot and it is a fast driver.

I don't think Raphael Astier has been a Peugeot driver.
Also, don't confuse him with Loic Astier. Loic is faster (won the french junior championship).
But for sure, Raphael is fast as well! He has some previous WRC experience:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/24148-raphael-astier/

[HaCo]

We have two R4s in Monte this year. a Fiat 500x and a Dacia Sandero.
They went very different in the SD, but could be reasons for that.

Lets hope they both see the checkered flag so they can collect good data for the teams and Oreca.

Not sure of the driver quality, since I know none of them. Anyone that knows more here?

I think the Fiat have come futher in their development curve, but lets see.

Any video footage from SD from these cars?

[Jarek Z]

We have two R4s in Monte this year. a Fiat 500x and a Dacia Sandero.
(...)
Not sure of the driver quality, since I know none of them. Anyone that knows more here?


Astier is a good driver.
Dionisio is a 60-year-old veteran driver from Italy, who has never won anything important, so don't expect much from him :)

[Sulland]

To get a good measure on speed difference btw R5 and R4 in practice we need a rally or two, where good international drivers take care of a couple of R4s.
If I was working in Oreca, I would have tried to get a few tests like that to happen.

There are a few drivers available these days that might enjoy driving a R4 in WRC or ERC.

But the Fiat is doing ok in Monte, so far.

[Sulland]

Congratulation to the Milano Fiat Team and Astier/Vauclare for a very good FIA debut.

Also to Dionisio for bringing the Dacia Sandero to the finish line.

[Sulland]

For some reason I have some expectations for the debut of the Suzuki Swift R4lly R4, in this weeks Fafe rally.
Suzuki Spain has buildt cars before that has been quick, maybe this one will be as well!

[Andre Oliveira]

Me too.

[Rally Power]

For some reason I have some expectations for the debut of the Suzuki Swift R4lly R4, in this weeks Fafe rally.
Suzuki Spain has buildt cars before that has been quick, maybe this one will be as well!

This one was built by Oreca; hard to find an R4 more competitive. Anyway, unless there’s a massive retirement from R5 top crews, it’ll be hard for them to get into the top 10.

[Sulland]

This one was built by Oreca; hard to find an R4 more competitive. Anyway, unless there’s a massive retirement from R5 top crews, it’ll be hard for them to get into the top 10.

Oh, I did not know that they had outsourced the build for the two Suzukis to Oreca. Thought they did it in Spain.
Anyway, lets see how they run.


1932

[Jarek Z]

Riku Tahko and his Mini R4 were 8th overall in SM-ITÄRALLI, a round of Finnish rally championship.

https://scontent.fktw1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/89043068_2802785159801291_4570808963540451328_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=JBNFmXOVR4sAX_FHaS8&_nc_ht=scontent.fktw1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=4e28cbd558b2a1c4f38460f349a7e1cd&oe=5EE76A1B

SM-ITÄRALLI 2020:
1. Emil Lindholm/Mikael Korhonen (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 Evo 46.41,0
2. Teemu Asunmaa/Jani Salo (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 Evo +6,7
3. Craig Breen/John Rowan (IRL) Hyundai i20 R5 +24,2
4. Juha Salo/Mikko Markkula (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 +42,9
5. Esa Ruotsalainen/Antti Linnaketo (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 +1.46,6
6. Juuso Metsälä/Matti Kangas (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 +2.15,7
7. Ville Hautamäki/Mika Juntunen (FIN) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +3.13,6
8. Riku Tahko/Markus Soininen (FIN) Mini R4 +3.28,4
9. Jaro Kinnunen/Tuukka Shemeikka (FIN) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +3.29,0
10. Jukka Kasi/Henri Ania (FIN) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.32,4

[Rally Power]

For some reason I have some expectations for the debut of the Suzuki Swift R4lly R4, in this weeks Fafe rally.

Funny thing about the Swift R4 debut; on the stages it looks, sounds and moves like a R5 but one immediately feel it can’t reach top R5’s pace, which makes wonder why can’t Suzuki importers try to develop a real R5 instead…

Anyway, Pardo did a nice job at Fafe and after several top 10 crews retirements he managed to take the fastest Swift R4 to P8 (although more than 8m behind the rally winner).

[TheFlyingTuga]

But you can clearly saw that the Swifts were underpowered. They looked and sounded good though.

And developing a R5 must have brand approval, and I don't think Suzuki is down to that... And that's a shame because it could improve sales in Europe. Car looks good and the stock GTI at least have interesting power figures. But I think Suzuki still have a bad taste in their mouths since the 2008 WRC adventure.

[Sulland]

Where in the RPM-band does the Oreca Kit engine pull the 263 hp and 382 Nm?

For an R5 engine, where do they reach max hp and Nm in comparison?

[TheFlyingTuga]

It depends on the R5, but normally the ideal rpm band is around 5500rpm until 7500rpm. But there should be people more informed like br21

[Mirek]

No, that may be true for DS3/208 but with the other cars the ideal power bend is lower. For example here You can see Weijs in Polo shifting up around 6000-6500 rpm. The launch control is at 7000 rpm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwwpCRR0vB4

[br21]

Depends on car and fuel map, but generally R5 peak torque is at 4500-5500, max power at some 5500-6500 (this is usually more flat curve).

Actually last week I attended comparison test between R4/N5/N4 organized in Finland before Itaralli. Important people from AKK Federation were there also, preparing for regulations for 2021. I can't go into details, but R4 was fastest. Other two cars similar times.

[Sulland]

Has the newest jokers for R5 gotten them close to 300 hp yet?
Are they also far above 400 nm in torque?

[br21]

Has the newest jokers for R5 gotten them close to 300 hp yet?
Are they also far above 400 nm in torque?

They are already for long time over 300hp on good fuels, and yes, they are way over 400Nm.

[TheFlyingTuga]

No, that may be true for DS3/208 but with the other cars the ideal power bend is lower. For example here You can see Weijs in Polo shifting up around 6000-6500 rpm. The launch control is at 7000 rpm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwwpCRR0vB4

Yeah, I know more about those two. For me the best engine is the Fabia, is the more round one, but I've only took rides in the first Gen cars

[Sulland]

They are already for long time over 300hp on good fuels, and yes, they are way over 400Nm.

Then it is safe to say that the difference per km SS will be closer to 1,5 sec, than 0,8 that is mentioned by Oreca.

But would like to see a top notch driver in an R4 to get real numbers.

[Rally Power]

Where in the RPM-band does the Oreca Kit engine pull the 263 hp and 382 Nm?

The R4 Kit seems to be using the last version of PSA’s EP6 stock engine, called FDT, which is also the engine chosen for the C3 R5. In road mode the FDT was already delivering 250-270hp under the 308GTi bonnet, which makes Oreca’s R4 max power figure to look a bit conservative (even considering that R4 engine tuning is quite limited) and the one announced by Citroen for the C3 an absolute joke (283hp, allegedly only 3 hp more than the previous CDT R5, developed 5 years before for the 208/DS3).

Anyway, power or torque figures aren’t R4 main problem; by promoting a mini R5 Kit, made and sold by a single supplier, the FIA wasn’t able to present an economic 4wd entry class, as everybody was asking; let’s hope Rally3 will be more successful doing that.

[vino_93]

Enrico Windisch made his first event with its A4 last week-end during Blaufränkischland Rallye. He ended 11th, after losing a few times during SS1.


South African team Rally Technic has now one (or two ? not sure) Hyundai i20 R4 : https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallytechnic/posts/?ref=page_internal

[Rally Power]

Gil Antunes Dacia will take a while to debut but it’s already looking nice:

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/89196729_2650881905191124_7074512105239478272_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQmUDjs-WQh1-pyM-FH3wAIYnwfWgJ0J9u92XBcNITqmn_uzjpFKHbInak6XTn7Kc5O 0cjotgwI2Ae1HavYoVIMZ&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=aee783876fb0b6afc7ca8e5038a858f7&oe=5E92AA91
Photo: https://pt-pt.facebook.com/domingos.sport/

[Zeakiwi2]

Oreca and F Delecour and co on livestream (brief translation. merci?)

https://www.facebook.com/OrecaStore/videos/218839212543892/?notif_id=1585389795343267&notif_t=live_video_share

[Rally Power]

Sadly, R4 (like most national 4wd protos categories) continues failing to attract a larger number of competitors but now and then new cars come to surface; this A1 was built by ASM for a French client.

https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106991688_1159607374401300_627005991199420926_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=nPIS3xuLdpYAX-iSEUv&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo1-1.fna&oh=6516011696d90b1e0aa80dae03614784&oe=5F3AF4CB
Photo: https://www.facebook.com/asmmotorsport/

[Jarek Z]

Gil Antunes Dacia will take a while to debut but it’s already looking nice

GIL ANTUNES is going to drive Rally Vinho da Madeira with DACIA SANDERO R4 this weekend (no. 14 on the entry list). This event is a round of Portuguese and Madeiran rally championships as well as European Rally Trophy and Iberian Rally Trophy.

Entry list:
https://ralivm.com/2020/en/event/entry-list

Photo of the car:
https://images.autosport.pt/2020/03/zm20-aro-10032020-01.jpg

[Rally Power]

Yep, he already drove it at Rali Castelo Branco; he reported some engine issues, struggling to match the fastest 2wd cars.

[Jarek Z]

Antunes' final result was far from spectacular. He finished the rally in the 19th position, behind some R3 cars:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/61346-rali-vinho-da-madeira-2020/

[Sulland]

I like the Suzuki Swift, and hope the spanish team can get approval by Suzuki to start a Rally3 project.

Now painted in the colors of the Moto GP bike that just became world champions with Mr Mir.

1998

[Mirek]

Judging by the performance of works R4 in Canarias I call these cars to be a lost case.

[Andre Oliveira]

Victor Cartier shows his Toyota Yaris R4 kit

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoyycPgW4AQgiMK?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoyycPiXUAIRvWF?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

Judging by the performance of works R4 in Canarias I call these cars to be a lost case.

And that is a bit strange, based on tech data:
ENGINE1.6 Turbo / 263 HP / 382 Nm
TRANSMISSION4WDGEARBOXSadev 5 speed sequential
SUSPENSIONCustom build Nadaltech suspension
WEIGHT1230 KG

It is not that far off the R5s in engine.
But have we seen a top notch driver driving one of these in a full rally?
Is the Nadaltech suspension any good, cant remember that name?

[TheFlyingTuga]

And that is a bit strange, based on tech data:
ENGINE1.6 Turbo / 263 HP / 382 Nm
TRANSMISSION4WDGEARBOXSadev 5 speed sequential
SUSPENSIONCustom build Nadaltech suspension
WEIGHT1230 KG

It is not that far off the R5s in engine.
But have we seen a top notch driver driving one of these in a full rally?
Is the Nadaltech suspension any good, cant remember that name?

Both drivers for Suzuki Spain are really fast and really good. The car is just overpowered, specially in torque. A 208 Rally4 makes more Nm with less power than a R4.

[Mirek]

The R4 engine is basically a stock one. It's not only about numbers which are way lower than with R5 anyway but also about the curves, anti-lag etc. Also the engine is only one part of the whole picture. The thing is that R4 are way too expensive for what they are. They have been around for quite a long time but they didn't attract anyone but few people while the more expensive but much faster R5 sell in hundreds.

It can not be said that such fail could not be forseen since we can find more than enough such voices in this forum alone if we go in the history.

[Sulland]

Thanks Mirek :D
but I also said it was too expensive.

I have more faith in Rally3.

[Andre Oliveira]

Built by ASM, driver José Laibe (FRA)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2ylbNWwAMvSRb?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2zugsXMAIImGf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2zugNWwAACVgI?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

Looks to me that the Spanish Suzuki team has made a good car and habe good drivers.
That combo makes the car competitive!

[Andre Oliveira]

Suzuki Iberica invest a lot. That's why their cars are better than the same specs. N5 was better than N5 from RMC too.

And of course, Pardo and Vinyes are good drivers.

[AnttiL]

Teemu Asunmaa is driving a Fabia Rally2 Kit in Rzeszowski

[Jarek Z]

Teemu Asunmaa is driving a Fabia Rally2 Kit in Rzeszowski

Strange livery! :)
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/news/liderzy-mistrzostw-finlandii-w-rzeszowie/6641783/

[Jarek Z]

Asunmaa's car is actually full of rally stories, have a look! :)
https://www.facebook.com/rallypl/posts/4531708453528062

[Jarek Z]

That's a nice story - this French guy is a designer, an enginner, a driver and a mechanic in one person :)
https://www.fiaerc.com/cartier-proves-its-possible-to-multitask-in-the-erc/
Good luck to him!

[Jarek Z]

Teemu Asunmaa is driving a Fabia Rally2 Kit in Rzeszowski

Unfortunately Asunmaa crashed already on the first stage:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/641208/?entry=3091518

[OldF]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/72659-top-building-ralli-sm-2021/

I know it was N5 spec however even Lappi couldnt haul his Yaris higher up the results yesterday

In Finland the N5 cars are competing in the SM2 class, a class for N4 cars or similar. Therefore the original N5 cars have been downgraded by a 33 mm restrictor and 80 kg more weight. So it’s not a surprise that Esapekka couldn’t haul higher than seventh leaving behind many SM1 cars (R5/Rally 2 or similar cars).
Esapekka was 0,74 sec/km slower compared to the winner but the second in the SM2 class was 1,57 sec/km compared to the winner. I don’t know what the difference would have been if a “Esapekka driver” had driven a R5/Rally2 car.

[drive]

Teemu Asunmaa has tested Lithuanian build Skoda R4 a lot on gravel, pity that tests on tarmac were cut short. Team from Lithuania has many pics and videos on their facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/R4-Skoda-104397777941349

[Jarek Z]

Teemu Asunmaa has tested Lithuanian build Skoda R4 a lot on gravel, pity that tests on tarmac were cut short. Team from Lithuania has many pics and videos on their facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/R4-Skoda-104397777941349

That's the car he crashed in Rally Rzeszowski last week:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40158-Rally2-kit-(ex-R4)-News-amp-Results&p=1280094&viewfull=1#post1280094

[drive]

That's the car he crashed in Rally Rzeszowski last week:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40158-Rally2-kit-(ex-R4)-News-amp-Results&p=1280094&viewfull=1#post1280094

yes I know, but they managed to get some Km's on tarmac before the rally thou. On gravel they done extensive tests, few starts as zero car also - looks promising

[pantealex]

ERC Barum has 5 x Rally2+Kit
Audi, 2x Skoda, Suzuki and Toyota

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/68543-barum-czech-rally-zlin-2021/?ct=1018

[Sulland]

That's the car he crashed in Rally Rzeszowski last week:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40158-Rally2-kit-(ex-R4)-News-amp-Results&p=1280094&viewfull=1#post1280094

The car did not look too bad from what we can see, how did it look on the other side?
Can he use same car in Barum Rally?

[RICARDO75]

Both Skoda's R4 missing Barum Rally

[PLuto]

Both Skoda's R4 missing Barum Rally

Unfortunatelly, crash on Rajd Rzeszowski changed all the plans...

[Kenneth]

1) This is R4 thread, not R5
2) He already has #1 Polo in his collection

[Damian Baldi]

Javier Castro drove his R4 at the Oregon Trail Rally last weekend finishing 5th overall. He have planned to stay at US with his team.

Here's a video from DirtFish about it. Javier need to learn english soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxSNJl7GJXI