[WRC] Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2019

[dimviii]

without ps

Ogier : 137 pts

Tanak : 137 pts

Neuville : 128 pts

[Rallyper]

Did Ogier say something about liasion delay, just to go back to fourth?

[Indreq]

without ps

Ogier : 137 pts

Tanak : 137 pts

Neuville : 128 pts


If Ogier takes PS win, then he will be 1st on road next time and Tänak behind him with just minimum difference in points.

[mousti]

Well normally they should have started and being hindered... in normal rallying, that is...Not true, this was just a normal neutralisation.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

haha Tänak did break in the end before the finish not to be fastest

[mknight]

Yep he did it, so that he doesn't open.

[dimviii]

Tanak +1,6

[Rally Hokkaido]

Tanak +1,6 Yep, co-driver told him how much to slow to avoid being 1st car in Sardegna.

[KKS]

Well normally they should have started and being hindered... in normal rallying, that is...
when car blocking a road - stage was redflagged and noone starting a stage. Meeke was crashed when he was 1min a stage, so stage commander have 3min to take a decision to not allow car to start until stage will be cleared. In normal rallying...

[KKS]

FIA World Chess Championship
...

[Eli]

Wow, what a power stage, was funny to see Ogier mad because he knows now he'll open the road for everyone else in Sardegna.

[EstWRC]

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS, YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS, YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS

that was a hard hard fought victory, yesterday he had only two trouble free stages and had to manage the car basically the whole day but did it brilliantly.

mega, so happy.

[denkimi]

without ps

Ogier : 137 pts

Tanak : 137 pts

Neuville : 128 pts
So

ogier 142
Tanak 140
Neuville 132

[KKS]

According to a map - Loeb was reached a service-park by his own

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What a rally for tactics and incidents. And what drama on the PS... incredible.

And after all that it's the Big 3 that are 1-2-3 again.

Tanak fastest but good speed from Neuville and especially after the massive Chile crash. And Ogier just picks his way through snd gets a good finish and wins the PS yet again.

[EstWRC]

Latvala has been given 6th time on power stage and he got past Kopecky with that

[KKS]

high jump
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8Dux9bXkAEwwbT.jpg

[Morte66]

This is the sound of a Meeke fan wondering why.

* opens bottle of Chateau Musar 2011 and sobs into it *

[Indreq]

So Latvala is up to the 7th now, whats the manufacturers standings after that? wrc.com hasnt updated yet...

[AL14]

high jump
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8Dux9bXkAEwwbT.jpg

That's huge!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Was it just Meeke's off and the delayed start for Tanak that gave them chance to see Ogier's time and decide what time they needed to do before starting ?

[wrc2017]

That was simple not good enough by Meeke... very frustrating.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8DssctXYAACQMK.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That was simple not good enough by Meeke... very frustrating.

Meeke's 1st retirement of 2019

Latvala's 4th
Lappi's 5th

[Morte66]

Meeke's 1st retirement of 2019

Latvala's 4th
Lappi's 5th

I think Meeke is top equal for completed rallies.

But did the bad Kris come back, the one who reacts to adversity by driving too hard and crashing?

Most of the year we've had this new sensible Kris, the one who reacts to punctures and brake failures and so on by doing the sensible thing to get the most points he can under the circumstances. There was just the one crazy moment in Mexico, before this.

[AnttiL]

I think there's also a difference in the tone of Meeke's stage end interviews. In Monte it was just "I love this car so much and I love so much to be driving", now it's "f-king hell" and "simple stuff!" when things go wrong.

[KKS]

Was it just Meeke's off and the delayed start for Tanak that gave them chance to see Ogier's time and decide what time they needed to do before starting ?
They at any case will know that. 4*4min=16min between Ogier and Tanak starts and stage time was 6:35 so you get 9min to calculate. Another reason is Meeke position. If Meeke stays its 12pts for Ogier -not 15 as it now. So that extra 3pts playing role to do tactics

[mknight]

Meeke's 1st retirement of 2019

Latvala's 4th
Lappi's 5th
Also crash on 4th rally in a row. (Corsica 2nd puncture was crash, Argentina and Chile also crashes), just that they didn't lead to full retirement.

Anyway here the spin was ok, no big deal. But after that someone in Toyota should have told him to take it easy. There was no way he would catch 7s on PS and going for PS points when he has no chance in driver championship and can potentially take points off Tänak was pointless. Especially with the state of mind he was in after the spin (Tommi commented on this on allive) . So for me it also looks like team fail as well.

[dimviii]

So Latvala is up to the 7th now, whats the manufacturers standings after that? wrc.com hasnt updated yet...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8DqADEXkAAh8mj.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8DqADIXsAIjrSI.jpg

[Morte66]

Anyway here the spin was ok, no big deal.

Yes, exactly. Spins happen. It's overreacting to the spin that is a problem.


But after that someone in Toyota should have told him to take it easy.

True. I wonder if they did?

[mknight]

Latvala's onboard from SS12 is on wrc+.

Can't see any clear mistake. There is some impact on rocks at 0:50 and then again a nasty sounding impact on same side around 1:52 any of these two could have probably caused the issue.

[Allez Andruet]

I think there's also a difference in the tone of Meeke's stage end interviews. In Monte it was just "I love this car so much and I love so much to be driving", now it's "f-king hell" and "simple stuff!" when things go wrong.

Agreed. The honeymoon's definitely over.

[mknight]

Meeke spin at 2:47 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ewbmNtvCqM

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKUFYxXKaeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzY65GzKsPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kb-BBTDXEg

[BigWorm]

Meeke at his worst for me, trying to reach the impossible (Neuville was never going to drop +7s in there) for some glory. It's what went wrong for him at Citroën with the C3 and now today. Mäkinen has some work to do with his approach, because evidently it's the same as it's been previously in situations like this. Meeke's win or bust approach is very admirable but it's at the same time what's dragging him down.

Anyway, quite an exciting event and Tänak drove it beautifully but he won't like the dampers hickups though. Neuville good after that big shunt and Ogier is just a podium-magnet. M-Sport scored quite nicely this event with both cars in top-5. Was also quite impressed with Greensmith until that unfortunate ending, he has far inferior experience compared to Tidemand and he made more of an impression than what Tidemand has done so far I would say.

[Sulland]

Greensmith man of the rally for me.
Did not expect him to be so close to the two other Fords. Good job!

[Essaj]

https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1135234077274058752 :confused:

[Pršljen]

King of tactics complaining on something that didn't even happen...And he has his sources. What a parody!

[mknight]

https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1135234077274058752 :confused:
Shots fired...

I don't quite get the point though. If he drove ahead of Ogier sure threy would give Ogier notional time same as Neuville?

[steve.mandzij]

Greensmith man of the rally for me.
Did not expect him to be so close to the two other Fords. Good job!He'd have been my man of the rally if he'd finished, but all things considered, a solid debut. I'd rather he go out in style after setting some quick times like he did rather than fizzle out like Pontus.

On another note, what ever happened to Suninen? Wasn't he battling at the top on Friday? Electrical issues, right?

[Rallyper]

Greensmith man of the rally for me.
Did not expect him to be so close to the two other Fords. Good job!

Well, often 9-11th stagetimes. And didn´t survive the rally. But more important, he is from a country that loves motorsport. And has the resources... Let´s wait and see what the learning curve brings.

[Rallyper]

He'd have been my man of the rally if he'd finished, but all things considered, a solid debut. I'd rather he go out in style after setting some quick times like he did rather than fizzle out like Pontus.

On another note, what ever happened to Suninen? Wasn't he battling at the top on Friday? Electrical issues, right?

I know this might be a bit harsch, but bashing Pontus like you do deserves this:

Put them beside each other and let them race on equal conditions. Pontus will be faster 9 out of 10.

[mknight]

On another note, what ever happened to Suninen? Wasn't he battling at the top on Friday? Electrical issues, right?

No brakes.

[Ds3]

Ogier accuses Adamo of taking Hyundai WRC Portugal tactics too far

World Rally Championship leader Sebastien Ogier has accused Hyundai team principal Andrea Adamo of taking a tactical approach too far on Rally of Portugal.

After fuel-related problems on the opening day left Hyundai drivers Sebastien Loeb and Dani Sordo down the order, Adamo used the regulations to manipulate those cars into a starting position which would offer team-mate Thierry Neuville a cleaner road.

On both Saturday and Sunday, Hyundai ordered Sordo and Loeb to check in late and run between Ogier and Neuville on the road, giving the Belgian his advantage.

Speaking in the post-event press conference in Matosinhos, Ogier said he had no problem with those tactics.

But he then added: "But today we can be lucky, or we can thank one man which is Dani Sordo, because there were some much more mean tactics were supposed to happen. "But luckily he [Sordo] refused.

"I got the information, not from any drivers - I have my sources - that this great gentleman that is Andrea Adamo asked him [Sordo] to stop in the stage and start in front of Kris [Meeke]. That was really mean."

Ogier also believed there was a plan for Sordo to pull over during Sunday's first stage to allow Neuville a clearer run without the hindrance of dust.



Ogier explaned to Autosport: "It was in the first stage this morning.

"In the stage, I don't know at which point, he [Sordo] was supposed to pull over in the stage; take the start then pull over and this would give Thierry a four-minute gap [with no dust]."

The Citroen driver pointed out that the tactic would have directly affected Meeke's run through the stage.

Ogier said: "It's OK, but then to restart in front of Kris, you then fuck Kris because he would be in the really bad dust. That's mean."

Contacted for a response, Adamo told Autosport he would not comment on such "low-level accusations."

Neuville finished the event in second place, one place ahead of Ogier - who retained his lead of the championship with a powerstage win.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143825/ogier-accuses-adamo-of-unfair-hyundai-tactics

[EstWRC]

ahh thats why he was basically in tears after last stage i suppose.

[steve.mandzij]

I know this might be a bit harsch, but bashing Pontus like you do deserves this:

Put them beside each other and let them race on equal conditions. Pontus will be faster 9 out of 10.It's fair, and I might sound a little ignorant... I don't have anything against Pontus per se (he was the only driver to agree to a photo at the service park a couple years back), and surely in a straight fight in R5's Pontus would wipe the floor with Gus. I just reckon the Swede's cautious approach to his debut drives weren't exactly the wisest options.

[BigWorm]

I know this might be a bit harsch, but bashing Pontus like you do deserves this:

Put them beside each other and let them race on equal conditions. Pontus will be faster 9 out of 10.

What do you mean, in R5 machinery?

[dimviii]

King of tactics complaining on something that didn't even happen...And he has his sources. What a parody!

Ogier cracked.
Seems its hard for him to be slower from 3 championship contenters,and wait for retirements to be good placed.

This is the reason that regardless championships won,he will not be the most favoured ever.

[stefanvv]

If Meeke pass Tanak,Ogier will sweep at Sardegna.

Or just crash :(

[mknight]

Ogier is the guy that introduced exploiting the rules for PS position in Sweden 2018 so that FIA had to change the rules. This year (again in Sweden) he introduced exploiting starting position for restarting cars to slot just ahead of teammates.

And now he talks about dirty tactics that did not happen...

If Sordo really was instructed it's off course really bad, but we have no proof. Had it happened it's quite likely FIA would have done something afterwards.

[mknight]

Ogier cracked.
Seems its hard for him to be slower from 3 championship contenters,and wait for retirements to be good placed.

More likely explanation yes. Combined with getting trolled by Tänak on PS for Sardinia starting position.
He just spew out some theories to put the focus on the other "bad guys".

[Rallyper]

What do you mean, in R5 machinery?

Any rallycar.

[dimviii]

Ogier is the guy that introduced exploiting the rules for PS position in Sweden 2018 so that FIA had to change the rules. This year (again in Sweden) he introduced exploiting starting position for restarting cars to slot just ahead of teammates.

And now he talks about dirty tactics that did not happen...

If Sordo really was instructed it's off course really bad, but we have no proof. Had it happened it's quite likely FIA would have done something afterwards.

i am curious how is going to prove all these.

[dimviii]

More likely explanation yes. Combined with getting trolled by Tänak on PS for Sardinia starting position.
.

i am very curious to see also if he is going to say good words about Tanak at future interviews.
Till now Tanak was the only driver he was kind

[EstWRC]

im feeling for Sordo atm, i guess right now he is being bombed by journalists to comment on this.


if this is really true, then i have lost all the respect to Adamo.

But i guess we will never know the truth.

[Allez Andruet]

Till now Tanak was the only driver he was kind

Come on now...

[stefanvv]

If Sordo really was instructed it's off course really bad, but we have no proof. Had it happened it's quite likely FIA would have done something afterwards.

Starting later is fine by the rules. Intentionally stopping in the stage is dangerous. It's scandal.

[Tarmop]

He would have done the same thing...actually, has done , by not using his starting position in Sweden 2018 for PS points for example...which was commented at that stage end by Tänak like that: "I didn't see him before the stage. Maybe Seb is playing some games to get a better start position?" I think irl he said "dirty games"...

A few events later Ogier was handed a timecard that allowed him to score a win...by Tänak. They aren`t so soft...

[Ds3]

If Lappi of Sardinia happens to break just before Neuville, you will not claim ......?

[EstWRC]

image after the rally

https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62087024_2234436943302862_454697772331827200_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeFozh5QKqjmAgAPd3wuL5jxjLzEh0PCOsQKE0Rw3 E_q-pTavZPquhJt0_7mHtJylvme3b_6TCxuQPLkfGAbD6p46XJfLD1 VPDoqHDKv2DOzOQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=1251a8245b5fcdce5a2d6b83d235c312&oe=5D96EA3A

[mknight]

Starting later is fine by the rules. Intentionally stopping in the stage is dangerous. It's scandal.
a) It's not fine by the rules, people get (time) penalties for that. It's just that the penalties don't hurt them.
b) Intentionally stopping would have been a scandal (but actually not against the written rules afaik) and FIA would have probably reacted....which is likely why it didn't happen.

[racerx1979]

Seb first got owned by Sordo and Loeb starting in front of him and then Tanak put the final nail in the coffin at the PS.

Ogier is butthurt for sure. Adamo is ruthless by all means whether he ordered Sordo to stop or not. Remember Sordo is really good friends with Meeke so maybe Meeke passed this info along to Ogier.

[AnttiL]

Good image sequence of the Greensmith jump. Shows clearly that the wheels aren't aligned correctly already while the car is airborne.

https://twitter.com/RichardSimpson1/status/1135245344424570880

[EstWRC]

Come on now...

what do you mean with this?

They get along really well after being teammates.

In Tänak movie Ogier said that he doesnt have many friends in WRC but Ott is one of them.

And the Tänak move at the end of power stage didnt bother him at all IMO. They were already joking and laughing on the podium after the stage and on the ceremonial podium.

[Ds3]

what do you mean with this?

They get along really well after being teammates.

In Tänak movie Ogier said that he doesnt have many friends in WRC but Ott is one of them.

And the Tänak move at the end of power stage didnt bother im at all IMO. They were already joking and laughing on the podium after the stage and on the ceremonial podium.

Comfortably, if Ogier sees no chance of becoming a champion, he will help Tannak everywhere. I'm sure 100%

[Allez Andruet]

what do you mean with this?

I was referring to the comment of Tänak being the only driver Ogier is kind to, which I think is quite an overstatement. In Finnish interview (https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000006127544.html) just before Portugal Lappi said that they get along really well with Ogier, and he really likes to work with him and learn from him. According to Lappi everything is really open between them, and he goes on to say that Ogier is much more nice and friendly than what people usually think of him.

[EstWRC]

I was referring to the comment of Tänak being the only driver Ogier is kind to, which I think is quite an overstatement. In Finnish interview (https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000006127544.html) just before Portugal Lappi said that they get along really well with Ogier, and he really likes to work with him and learn from him. According to Lappi everything is really open between them, and he goes on to say that Ogier is much more nice and friendly than what people usually think of him.

ah okay...all clear then.

[BigWorm]

Any rallycar.

In a world rally car I'm not super convinced. They have not competed against each other in one and comparing their deficits to the leading stage times, their difference in s/km is negligible.

[Rally Power]

Finally resting from 3 fabulous days of another fantastic Rally de Portugal. Beautiful stages, amazing drivers and probably the best cars that ever run the WRC provided the passionate crowds a first class show, proving that we are really living a golden rally era (please FIA, don’t ruin it with expensive Hybrids or useless EV’s).

It’s hard to stand out a crew or a team on this event because here and there they all managed to impress; from the evergreen Sordo to the inexperienced Greensmith, from the usually less fortunate Suninen to the always efficient Tanak, they all deserve hats off. Actually, when we’re spectating the drivers efforts to dominate those incredible machines in the most challenging roads under extreme conditions (I wonder how hot it was inside those cars this weekend), it makes one realize how unfair we tend to be behind a PC, over criticizing their mistakes.

Congrats to the winners and their competitors; a special applause to the organizers for providing us a fantastic event and the return of Arganil legendary routes. It’ll be hard waiting for 2020!

[Pršljen]

Like Lappi would say that he doesn't get along with his team mate, common.

But I like this rivalry between all of them, it gives some extra spice to this great season. Sport without real rivalry is boring. Adamo's arrivaly is most welcomed from this aspect.

[Allez Andruet]

Like Lappi would say that he doesn't get along with his team mate, common.

Most likely he wouldn't. But neither would he make it sound any better than it is and certainly wouldn't use expressions he used there. I know my Finnish.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I believe Ogier's info. Adamo already said he will do whatever it takes to get results.

The tactics his drivers used were already another level to M-Sport's in that they were also to harm the opponents (as well ae improving Neuvilles chances).

It seemed even worse to me as it was Hyundai's cars that broke down on Friday that were then used this to gain the advantage

[dimviii]

I was referring to the comment of Tänak being the only driver Ogier is kind to, which I think is quite an overstatement. In Finnish interview (https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000006127544.html) just before Portugal Lappi said that they get along really well with Ogier, and he really likes to work with him and learn from him. According to Lappi everything is really open between them, and he goes on to say that Ogier is much more nice and friendly than what people usually think of him.

it was possible to say something different?

[mknight]

I believe Ogier's info. Adamo already said he will do whatever it takes to get results.

The tactics his drivers used were already another level to M-Sport's in that they were also to harm the opponents (as well ae improving Neuvilles chances).

It seemed even worse to me as it was Hyundai's cars that broke down on Friday that were then used this to gain the advantage

The tactics used were exactly the same as Citroen did this year in Sweden (with Ogier), and Toyota did in Mexico (with Latvala ).... and the one who first introduced them was again.... Ogier.

EDIT: Note that I wrote already in Sweden how this is BS and that FIA should add a rule to prevent this or every team will start doing it.

[Mirek]

i am curious how is going to prove all these.

Ogier for sure knew, when he decided to say what he later said, that there's no way to prove whether it was true or not. Despite that he said that. Why would he do that if it was not true? What would he win with that? IMHO he risked being seen ridiculously paranoid or downright mad. It makes no sense to risk that without a reason. Maybe he is playing mind games with Hyundai team where he feels the relations aren't very good or maybe it actually was supposed to happen and he is simply afraid it would come on Sardinia or in any other event.

None of us knows and most likely we will never know where the truth lies but nevertheless now it's guaranteed that such crazy tactics will not come (no matter if there was any plan for it or not).

[mknight]

Ogier for sure knew, when he decided to say what he later said, that there's no way to prove whether it was true or not. Despite that he said that. Why would he do that if it was not true? What would he win with that?

Why did Meeke accuse Citroen of getting the stage redflagged for Ogier in Mexico? Cause he was pissed and thought about a conspiracy theory (+ his history with Citroen).

Pretty much same here with Ogier imo, quite a lot of reasons to be pissed:
- beaten on speed by both Tanak and Neuville with Meeke and Latvala on top (on Saturday), sometimes even by Lappi
- own team tactics used against him
- Tanak's breaking on PS

[BigWorm]

I'm guessing the book of regulations won't be getting more slim any time soon.

[dimviii]

Ogier for sure knew, when he decided to say what he later said, that there's no way to prove whether it was true or not. Despite that he said that. Why would he do that if it was not true? What would he win with that? IMHO he risked being seen ridiculously paranoid or downright mad. It makes no sense to risk that without a reason. Maybe he is playing mind games with Hyundai team where he feels the relations aren't very good or maybe it actually was supposed to happen and he is simply afraid it would come on Sardinia or in any other event.

None of us knows and most likely we will never know where the truth lies but nevertheless now it's guaranteed that such crazy tactics will not come (no matter if there was any plan for it or not).

if at next rally Neuville say that somebody told him that Citroen/Toyota had planned to stop Lappi/Meeke to create dust for Neuville you will believe it?
You cant say such things without prove.Thats a boomerang.
When journalists are going to ask Sordo, what do you think that he will say?
A i dont comment
B no Adamo didnt asked me to do that.

Ogier just managed to f@ck the atmosphere at wrc.
He just dont like to loose,and we have said it plenty of years .

[Tarmop]

Well, Meeke just said "probably some dirty tactics from Citroen" after finishing a stage and giving a comment to all live, Ogier was calmly behind his desk and giving factual or "factual" details about what was or "was" supposed to happen. One is just pure emotion burst, other well calculated. Not comparable imho.

[stefanvv]

If this is going to be allowed in the future and compromises the rally safety, I'm completely with Ogier on this.

[Francis44]

Ogier gets all the hate simply because he is the CHAMP!

How would you feel after plenty of seasons opening the road on most gravel events?! Im willing to bet, without even looking at the stats, that in the seasons where we had championship order on first day Ogier was likely starting first on 70% of the races. It would drive anyone mad.

Here in Portugal it was actually not that bad but in certain rallys (Sardinia, Catalunya) you are almost guareented to be out of contention on 3 bloody stages.

[dimviii]

When Sordo will be asked and will deny this ,who are we going to believe?

[Tarmop]

Full denial or silence, he wants to drive a WRCar. This is just something that will stay in the air I think.

[mknight]

Sordo will say no comment for sure. Personally for me it's like 50 / 50. But I don't think Adamo would "order" Sordo, just ask if he was ok with it.

[JRodrigues]

Meeke spin at 2:47 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ewbmNtvCqM

Same place of Lappi's roll?

[EstWRC]

Q:
On the Power Stage today, it appeared that you were faster that Sébastien Ogier. Did you slow towards the end?
OT:
It was a long story. The Power Stage was a long one. At first, we were thinking about the strategy a little and we thought that every point would be important at the end of the year. We were going to be three ahead of Seb without the Power Stage points. I thought that I should be faster than him. The plan was to collect as many points as possible but Kris made his mistake and that changed everything. Seb was on the podium and we were on the same level on points. I knew I needed to be a bit slower to avoid opening the road in Sardinia. Then Thierry got in between us and I lost another point.


the rest https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-o-tanak-definitely-one-hardest-wins-i-have-taken

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The tactics used were exactly the same as Citroen did this year in Sweden (with Ogier), and Toyota did in Mexico (with Latvala ).... and the one who first introduced them was again.... Ogier.

EDIT: Note that I wrote already in Sweden how this is BS and that FIA should add a rule to prevent this or every team will start doing it.

Ogier's road-order tactics were just to help himself where he felt 'hard done by'. His Sweden snow-ploughing had reduced him to 10th place !

M-Sport only used team-orders to drop their own driver(s) back to increase the points scored by their No.1.

None of these were to deliberately disadvantage an opponent, like Hyundai did here (and Adamo wanted to do even worse).

[mknight]

Same place of Lappi's roll?

yes

[wrc2017]

Looking at Meeke spin on the power stage, you have to have some sympathy for him. The tree stump was getting more exposed with each car, otherwise he would habe had it in his pacenotes, and he commited to the angle of attack well before the apex, and most likely the wheel was open, and just snagged the tree stump. Tough one, he maybe was cutting too much, but very fine margins. Dont think he should be too disheartened. He was only 2s off the lead couple of hours earlier. Strong performance, and glad to see him up with top 3 again.

[mknight]

Ogier's road-order tactics were just to help himself where he felt 'hard done by'. His Sweden snow-ploughing had reduced him to 10th place !

M-Sport only used team-orders to drop their own driver(s) back to increase the points scored by their No.1.

None of these were to deliberately disadvantage an opponent, like Hyundai did here (and Adamo wanted to do even worse).

And we are back in 2018.... Eddie saying how Ogier "had to" do what he did, cause he felt bad.....anyway that's not what we are talking about.


This year (2019) in Sweden Ogier did exactly the same thing as Hyundai did here.
He drove on purpose after Neuville/Loeb and before Lappi... to disadvantage Neuville/Loeb (less roadcleaning) and give advantage Lappi (more road cleaning). 100% exactly same situation.

[Tarmop]

ONLY after what, Neuville/Hyundai said they`ll do the same when necessary...and now got the chance. Playing with rules has always been started bu Ogier and in orer to benefit him or his team. Surely Eddie can`t expect other not to follow?

[racerx1979]

Adamo letting everyone know the real mobsters come from Italy, not France. Lol.

[Morte66]

I don't blame anybody for using the rules to advantage. But I want the rules to change so this bollocks stops. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem easy.

[SubaruNorway]

Looking at Meeke spin on the power stage, you have to have some sympathy for him. The tree stump was getting more exposed with each car, otherwise he would habe had it in his pacenotes, and he commited to the angle of attack well before the apex, and most likely the wheel was open, and just snagged the tree stump. Tough one, he maybe was cutting too much, but very fine margins. Dont think he should be too disheartened. He was only 2s off the lead couple of hours earlier. Strong performance, and glad to see him up with top 3 again.

No, came in too hot pulled the handbrake and went too tight. The stump was there when Mikkelsen rolled in 2017

[stefanvv]

ONLY after what, Neuville/Hyundai said they`ll do the same when necessary...and now got the chance. Playing with rules has always been started bu Ogier and in orer to benefit him or his team. Surely Eddie can`t expect other not to follow?

Uh oh. Playing with rules has always been part of any sport. Ogier didn't invented them, and certainly didn't killed all the dinosaurs, nor Kennedy.
Let's be fair, Hyundai already imposed these 5-6 years ago. Sweden 2018 in everyone's mouth sounds just ridiculous, heloooooooo, make your senses sorted.

[BigWorm]

Hyundai definitely played some naughty tactics this rally, perfectly legal but not very nice. Ogier's comments could very well be true, Hyundai seem to be a bit desperate this year and desperate times call for desperate measures. At the same time, drivers like Ogier have enormous egos and self-pride and will most likely twist some comments here and there for their own good about stage times, car performance etc. With no real proof of the Sordo situation it's hard to believe either side.

[doubled1978]

I doubt we will find the exact truth anytime soon, the only people who know for sure are in the employ of Hyundai (everyone else is hearing it from someone else).
Who knows if it was a serious suggestion to perform such a tactic, or just a jokey comment made amongst the guys, or never happened at all...
If it was a serious suggestion and what Ogier is saying is correct, then we all as rally fans should applaud and respect Sordo for refusing it. I don’t have a major problem with the shuffling order tactics as it’s kind of part of the game, and has been in one form or other for decades, but something that would actually place a competitor in a dangerous situation by design (thick dust) is another matter, and actually the WRC/FIA should investigate it.
Moving forward if they want to stop the shuffle of order, I guess they could impose a more severe time penalty for each minute of lateness, and insist that any car missing its start time move completely to the back of the field (within its own class) so it can’t affect anyone more than another one.

[mknight]

Moving forward if they want to stop the shuffle of order, I guess they could impose a more severe time penalty for each minute of lateness, and insist that any car missing its start time move completely to the back of the field (within its own class) so it can’t affect anyone more than another one.

Time penalties don't matter when the cars are last WRCs running. Not sure it's possible to realize the "moving them to back of the starters" part in practice.

Removing manu points might help, but for example here Hyundai could then still do it with one of the two cars and risk that they don't score if the other one crashes/retires. Similarly Citroen could still have done it in Sweden cause they don't care about manu points.

[Morte66]

It would be better if the teams and drivers agreed that "We'll stop doing it if you stop doing it".

Too much to ask...

[doubled1978]

Time penalties don't matter when the cars are last WRCs running. Not sure it's possible to realize the "moving them to back of the starters" part in practice.

Removing manu points might help, but for example here Hyundai could then still do it with one of the two cars and risk that they don't score if the other one crashes/retires. Similarly Citroen could still have done it in Sweden cause they don't care about manu points.

The problem is the rule is there currently to penalise a bit guys who are genuinely late to a time control, not ones who are using the rules to gain an advantage for either themselves or a team mate. How do you distinguish between the genuine one, and the tactical one...very difficult in practice to say the guy stopped with his bonnet up on the road section is playing games.
If you move anyone late to the back, they can’t influence one car more than another...

[nafpaktos]

Yesterday's small exit of tanak was related with the suspension issue he had? i was not reading the forum during this rally and i could not understand from what i have already read and seen.

[mknight]

The problem is the rule is there currently to penalise a bit guys who are genuinely late to a time control, not ones who are using the rules to gain an advantage for either themselves or a team mate. How do you distinguish between the genuine one, and the tactical one...very difficult in practice to say the guy stopped with his bonnet up on the road section is playing games.
If you move anyone late to the back, they can’t influence one car more than another...

Yes you are right. I am not so sure if moving behind is always physically possible (i.e. timecontroll on a road/street with one-car width), but that could be changed to accommodate this.

[stefanvv]

It would be better if the teams and drivers agreed that "We'll stop doing it if you stop doing it".

Too much to ask...

Here we go again, "the stones are in your garden". If you pretend to be better in every aspect, for sure you wouldn't do it, period. Everyone takes his own responsibility for his actions, endangering others is criminal. Hats off to Sordo not complying with it.

[drive]

What I dont understand: when Ogier done tactics, most of forumers called him really nasty names so to say... now hyunday done it - most over here says 'its ok' and some still blames Ogier... go figure 😀 love and hate...
Anyhow, great rally and not often top places are decided in a last day - we live in a really nice era for rally!

[doubled1978]

It would be better if the teams and drivers agreed that "We'll stop doing it if you stop doing it".

Too much to ask...

Nice in principle, but unwritten rules aren’t rules and this is professional motorsport where companies have invested millions. I wouldn’t want to explain to the board that we didn’t win a World Championship because we didn’t do something, that wasn’t against the rules because we wanted to be nice guys.

[dimviii]

Hats off to Sordo not complying with it.

did Sordo said that Ogier was right?

[mknight]

Yesterday's small exit of tanak was related with the suspension issue he had? i was not reading the forum during this rally and i could not understand from what i have already read and seen.

If you mean him running wide on the tarmac corner it probably wasn't directly related to the damper as it was right corner and it was front right damper that was damaged. But certainly the damper could have distracted him.

[tommeke_B]

I don't think it's fair to blame anyone. The rules are like they are, it's up to the teams and drivers to use them to the maximum. The simplest way to solve this issue, is bringing back some rules of the past. Either make the starting order the order of championship, but reversed, or let them pick by qualifying stage again. Now the fight for the championship really only starts in the last few events. They're waiting and know being first now could actually be a disadvantage in the long run. That should change, they should be fighting for each and every point, from the first to the last event.

[stefanvv]

did Sordo said that Ogier was right?

Ogier's words are good enough for me. I know he puts Sordo in difficult situation, but perhaps that's for good. On the other hand if Sordo really didn't do this insanity, he knows what he's doing. Ringing a bell?

[AL14]

Guys help me to understand the situation. According to Ogier sources, Adamo told Sordo to start the stage and stay stopped for a while to give Neuville less dust? How is it possible? It would just give Meeke more dust but I don't understand how this would help Thierry to have 4 minutes of clear road ahaed of him.

[Simmi]

Good image sequence of the Greensmith jump. Shows clearly that the wheels aren't aligned correctly already while the car is airborne.

https://twitter.com/RichardSimpson1/status/1135245344424570880

Thanks Antti. Was crazy to watch that happen. Shame for Gus.

[Rally Power]

Guys help me to understand the situation. According to Ogier sources, Adamo told Sordo to start the stage and stay stopped for a while to give Neuville less dust? How is it possible? It would just give Meeke more dust but I don't understand how this would help Thierry to have 4 minutes of clear road ahaed of him.

Only saw the video and read the comments a few minutes ago but it seems it would give Thierry the 4m gap from the place where Sordo was stopped (the closest possible to the start). Btw, this tactic was used by Lancia in the 80's.

Anyway, maybe the info it’s true, maybe it isn’t, but to turn it public on a PC seems an act of desperation from Ogier. On the other hand, Adamo must also feel highly pressured if Hyundai pull out rumour, in case of not achieving a title this year, is correct. Hope this silly tactics will end soon, for the series sake.

[KiwiWRCfan]

we live in a really nice era for rally !
very very true

[denkimi]

Guys help me to understand the situation. According to Ogier sources, Adamo told Sordo to start the stage and stay stopped for a while to give Neuville less dust? How is it possible? It would just give Meeke more dust but I don't understand how this would help Thierry to have 4 minutes of clear road ahaed of him.
As far as i understand, they wanted sordo to pull over and start again right after neuville. So neuville wouldn't be in sordo's dust, but meeke would have had a little bit more dust.

They could easily solve that by always giving 3 or 4 minute gaps on rally's with a lot of dust.

[er88]

If true that's awful, personally I don't see Ogier making this up and creating this mess if there's nothing in it.

I dont believe any driver would do what Sordo was potentially asked to do, nevermind Sordo doing it to a really good friend like Kris Meeke. They've been friends for years, they hang out away from rallies and the families are close.

Hopefully Ogiers sources are wrong, because I don't beleive Ogier himself has just flung these accusations out there by concocting them himself

[Tarmop]

Uh oh. Playing with rules has always been part of any sport. Ogier didn't invented them, and certainly didn't killed all the dinosaurs, nor Kennedy.
Let's be fair, Hyundai already imposed these 5-6 years ago. Sweden 2018 in everyone's mouth sounds just ridiculous, heloooooooo, make your senses sorted.

Ofc teamorders are ok, when in the limits...and they were this time also. Point was, that it was implied, that it is ok for one man, not ok for others.

[Allez Andruet]

It will be interesting to see how mr. Adamo handles this within his organization (assuming the allegations made by Ogier are indeed true). The request, so to say, most likely hasn't been presented to Sordo around the breakfast table, i.e. in a place where there would be uncontrollable amount of ears around. In Adamo's view, the list of suspects is probably somewhat short.

[flykas]

Well it would be insane for Ogier to just come up with a story like that for a PC. How would he talk to Sordo after that.

[mknight]

More tinfoil hats on!

While I don't discard Ogier as beeing 100% sure he is wrong I have no belief it would happen with Adamo "secretely" phoning Sordo right before stage and him refusing basically on the startline.
The course of action I could somehow believe is exactly the type of talk around breakfast table. Like: "There are 2 mins gaps on first stage". A: "Well Dani could start and wait for Thierry to pass". DS:"Nah that's too dirty".

[mknight]

Well it would be insane for Ogier to just come up with a story like that for a PC. How would he talk to Sordo after that.
Ogier is no stranger to dirty tactics though. Remember Corsica 2017 where he had issues before PS and refused to say if he fixed them? Then Sordo "cruised" on PS and Ogier overtok him driving at full speed.

Also this story makes Sordo look like the nice guy.

[AnttiL]

Meeke retirement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BG5AgIgHC8

[wrc2017]

Meeke retirement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BG5AgIgHC8

fuck that.... that was a nothing mistake

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8HuZdXWwAARiF_.jpg

[EstWRC]

very good vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=l8JnxO1PfVQ

[AnttiL]

List of issues and incidents

Tänak: Brake issues, broken damper, one slide to the side of the road
Neuville: One stall of engine
Ogier: -
Suninen: Brake issues
Evans: Electrical fault - stopped in the stage
Latvala: Broken damper - rally 2
Sordo: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage
Loeb: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage, damaged suspension - retired
Greensmith: Engine issues, off road - rally2, broken suspension and crash - retired
Meeke: Intercom issues, handbrake issues, damper problems, spin, hit a stone - retired
Lappi: Puncture, rolled, damaged suspension - retired

In 2018 and 2017 it was as eventful. Maybe it's the combination of heat, roughness and speed of this event that makes it so difficult to get to the finish without issues?

[doubled1978]

Didn’t Meeke also have Damper problems that were found out later? I think I read that somewhere...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And we are back in 2018.... Eddie saying how Ogier "had to" do what he did, cause he felt bad.....anyway that's not what we are talking about.


This year (2019) in Sweden Ogier did exactly the same thing as Hyundai did here.
He drove on purpose after Neuville/Loeb and before Lappi... to disadvantage Neuville/Loeb (less roadcleaning) and give advantage Lappi (more road cleaning). 100% exactly same situation.

I dont remember any big controversy in Sweden 2019. Ogier said he just wanted a better road position to use the remainder of the rally as a test for his new car.

[AnttiL]

I dont remember any big controversy in Sweden 2019. Ogier said he just wanted a better road position to use the remainder of the rally as a test for his new car.

But the point is that Ogier invented this kind of tactics, which Hyundai now used to greater extent. He was able to help Lappi as well in getting second position.

[racerx1979]

Didn’t Meeke also have Damper problems that were found out later? I think I read that somewhere...

And handbrake stopped working

[bluuford]

List of issues and incidents

Tänak: Brake issues, broken damper, one slide to the side of the road
Neuville: One stall of engine
Ogier: -
Suninen: Brake issues
Evans: Electrical fault - stopped in the stage
Latvala: Broken damper - rally 2
Sordo: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage
Loeb: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage, damaged suspension - retired
Greensmith: Engine issues, off road - rally2, broken suspension and crash - retired
Meeke: Intercom issues, handbrake issues, damper problems, spin, hit a stone - retired
Lappi: Puncture, rolled, damaged suspension - retired

In 2018 and 2017 it was as eventful. Maybe it's the combination of heat, roughness and speed of this event that makes it so difficult to get to the finish without issues?

Neuville had broken radiator a the end of SS13. Sordo had puncture on SS5
SS 12 and 13 were real car destroyers, really big exposed bedrocks, concrete edges on line, metal settling wells (20-30 cm high in the ruts). If you look further back in the list, you can see many-many problems..

[denkimi]

List of issues and incidents

Tänak: Brake issues, broken damper, one slide to the side of the road
Does anyone really believe that tanak had a broken damper?
When you take into account the time he lost with his off, he was just as fast as the previous passage compared to ogier and neuville. You don't do that with a broken damper.
Latvala had a real broken damper, tanak was playing games.

[steve.mandzij]

Does anyone really believe that tanak had a broken damper?
When you take into account the time he lost with his off, he was just as fast as the previous passage compared to ogier and neuville. You don't do that with a broken damper.
Latvala had a real broken damper, tanak was playing games....did you see the helicopter videos?

[AL14]

As far as i understand, they wanted sordo to pull over and start again right after neuville. So neuville wouldn't be in sordo's dust, but meeke would have had a little bit more dust.

They could easily solve that by always giving 3 or 4 minute gaps on rally's with a lot of dust.


Only saw the video and read the comments a few minutes ago but it seems it would give Thierry the 4m gap from the place where Sordo was stopped (the closest possible to the start). Btw, this tactic was used by Lancia in the 80's.

Thank you! Now it's clear to me too.
Well, we have no proof whether it's true or not.
If true it starts to be too much but Ogier is still the last person that should complain about it but we need to put a line to define what is a team strategy and what is against the sport principles.
If false or partially false then some people should think twice before spreading such accusations in public. They're not good for anyone.

[EstWRC]

why the hell he should he lie about this? didnt you follow ALLLIVE? you could see the front right tyre wobblying like crazy.

and after he came to media zone, the mechanics right away went to check the car and one of them was shaking his head.

[doubled1978]

Yes I think Tanak mentioned that he thought the damper had taken a big hit in the first stage in the loop, and it looks like it finally gave up around half way more or less through the third in the loop.
I don’t think it had much to do with his off, but you could see the last few Km’s it was totally gone.
He was a bit lucky with the off tho...easily could have got stuck or hit something solid.

[denkimi]

why the hell he should he lie about this? didnt you follow ALLLIVE? you could see the front right tyre wobblying like crazy.

and after he came to media zone, the mechanics right away went to check the car and one of them was shaking his head.
No i don't have alllive.

Whatever it was, it hasn't slowed him down. Not even a little.
And i think everybody here has seen enough rally to know that a real broken damper does slow you down. Massively.

Why would they tell the truth? Mind games have always been a part of the show.

[pantealex]

List of issues and incidents

Tänak: Brake issues, broken damper, one slide to the side of the road
Neuville: One stall of engine
Ogier: -
Suninen: Brake issues
Evans: Electrical fault - stopped in the stage
Latvala: Broken damper - rally 2
Sordo: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage
Loeb: Fuel pressure issue - stopped in the stage, damaged suspension - retired
Greensmith: Engine issues, off road - rally2, broken suspension and crash - retired
Meeke: Intercom issues, handbrake issues, damper problems, spin, hit a stone - retired
Lappi: Puncture, rolled, damaged suspension - retired

For Latvala reason for Rally2 was broken suspension, damper took hit in jump but after that he hit a stone and broke suspension. That´s what TGR said afterwards.

Good that AnttiL noticed that Loeb eventually retired.

[Tarmop]

No i don't have alllive.

Whatever it was, it hasn't slowed him down. Not even a little.
And i think everybody here has seen enough rally to know that a real broken damper does slow you down. Massively.

Why would they tell the truth? Mind games have always been a part of the show.

Have you ever driven or atleast seen a car without a normally working damper?

[dimviii]

Thank you! Now it's clear to me too.
Well, we have no proof whether it's true or not.
If true it starts to be too much but Ogier is still the last person that should complain about it but we need to put a line to define what is a team strategy and what is against the sport principles.
If false or partially false then some people should think twice before spreading such accusations in public. They're not good for anyone.

agree 100%

[EstWRC]

No i don't have alllive.

Whatever it was, it hasn't slowed him down. Not even a little.
And i think everybody here has seen enough rally to know that a real broken damper does slow you down. Massively.

Why would they tell the truth? Mind games have always been a part of the show.

unbelievable :rolleyes:

[Mirek]

No i don't have alllive.

Whatever it was, it hasn't slowed him down. Not even a little.
And i think everybody here has seen enough rally to know that a real broken damper does slow you down. Massively.

Why would they tell the truth? Mind games have always been a part of the show.

Sorry but you're ridiculing yourself. The damper problem was easily visible even for a blind man on the all live.

[dimviii]

https://www.facebook.com/DoidosporRally/videos/696266357496312/

[dimviii]

Red Bull recap/highlights day 1

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/video/rrn:content:live-videos:03283d78-6509-538e-89e5-0ff0d20cbba8/friday-highlights-portugal
day2
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/video/rrn:content:live-videos:bf0607d4-9a68-5588-aac4-6d6ef823db76/saturday-highlights-portugal


day3
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/video/rrn:content:live-videos:8d6b5ba0-6936-5283-ac2c-5e63ede11fd8/sunday-highlights-portugal

and a nice photo with a proud dad

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8IL-K0WwAA5Kng.jpg

[Simmi]

Had a great time in Portugal. Warm weather, warm welcome from the people there. Finally got to the iconic spots of Fafe. I have to say that stage is the biggest in the WRC. If anyone has been in there the night before they will know. I've not seen anything like it. Beyond that you just have to re-set your expectations as a spectator. It's barely worth the stress of trying to step outside spectator zones. Most of them are really good with views and atmosphere. Maybe another couple of showers and I'll be free of all the dust.

Some photos - including a few of the Greensmith crash - https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/albums/72157708906699478/with/47994128366/

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994100678_916c48c78b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85j3s)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85j3s) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994102817_b056106677_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85jFk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85jFk) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994143396_0c0b25a142_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wJY)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wJY) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994142516_549c16e7c4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wtN)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wtN) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994128366_e1100e9db9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85sgQ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85sgQ) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47994142816_daf1226a84_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wyY)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2g85wyY) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

[Allez Andruet]

Nice shots!

[dimviii]

amazing video from Ziggysony
https://youtu.be/8RjL9RpU5tc

[deephouse]

Ogier = baby...

[stefanvv]

Thank you! Now it's clear to me too.
Well, we have no proof whether it's true or not.
If true it starts to be too much but Ogier is still the last person that should complain about it but we need to put a line to define what is a team strategy and what is against the sport principles.
If false or partially false then some people should think twice before spreading such accusations in public. They're not good for anyone.

:D, I'm so glad everything is fine then.

[krissucool]

unbelievable :rolleyes:

You could literally see how bad it was on TV. Fucking retard...

[EstWRC]

amazing video from Ziggysony
https://youtu.be/8RjL9RpU5tc

thanks and here is Bunnings video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H23b3RjWEBs
and D10m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oifyLbWVb8

[racerx1979]

You could literally see how bad it was on TV. Fucking retard...

Nice choice of words... you also quoted EstWRC instead of denkimi.

[AL14]

:D, I'm so glad everything is fine then.

I don't get it...

Anyway, it seems that Sordo replied to Ogier and said that's not true.

[Mirek]

Anyway, it seems that Sordo replied to Ogier and said that's not true.

Nobody could have expected anything else.

[stefanvv]

I don't get it...

Anyway, it seems that Sordo replied to Ogier and said that's not true.

Do you really believe Ogier is really that stupid to involve Sordo in this mess?!? Something tells me the people in charge know lot more than we'll ever know, and that's a good thing.

[AL14]

Do you really believe Ogier is really that stupid to involve Sordo in this mess?!?

I keep don't understanding you. Sorry.

[stefanvv]

I keep don't understanding you. Sorry.

I don't think it's necessary. Definitely no need to sorry about it. If you're interested would read my previous comments, I think they're very easy to understand.

[mknight]

Anyone seen any explanation or statement from MSport why Greensmiths suspension was broken even before the jump?

His onboard is not on wrc+.

[Rally Power]

Had a great time in Portugal. Warm weather, warm welcome from the people there. Finally got to the iconic spots of Fafe. I have to say that stage is the biggest in the WRC. If anyone has been in there the night before they will know. I've not seen anything like it. Beyond that you just have to re-set your expectations as a spectator. It's barely worth the stress of trying to step outside spectator zones. Most of them are really good with views and atmosphere.

Amen! I’m obviously biased on this matter and must sound exaggerated every time I praise our Rally, so it’s great to see the others recognizing how special Rally de Portugal it’s. We don’t have manus or top drivers but we have a hugely passionate people that celebrate the Rally as a way to celebrate life; eventually, that’s what mostly matter.

Btw, ACP chairman, Carlos Barbosa, has announced that the Rally will continue in the North and Center regions during the next years. Hats off for him, the ACP staff and all RdP partners!

[EstWRC]

great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T547o8rDeM

[Indreq]

Does anyone really believe that tanak had a broken damper?
When you take into account the time he lost with his off, he was just as fast as the previous passage compared to ogier and neuville. You don't do that with a broken damper.
Latvala had a real broken damper, tanak was playing games.

So what is the cause in your opinion then? https://media.giphy.com/media/XBF6ojSF89hR7Ma1mp/giphy.gif

PS Click link to see gif, not thumbnail, i dont know how to remove it...

[Meekefan]

I reshare what I wrotte some days ago...
"Was a shame how people were treated yesterday on Arganil stage, namely on ZE11. People walking 10 km climbing hill. After have arrived at up hill, marshalls and scurity forces told "it is not possible to cross the road to the other side", to the ZE efectivelly. Was stupid as their statement was "only after priority drivers would be available to cross the road". That was just stupid, as in my opinion all the cars could be dangerous, not only the priorities. People was treated like cattle in a fence. I am portuguese but I am ashamed about how organization treats the rally fans. They did not deserve the rally at their stages. This has to be told and shared."

And most of the people do not celebrate the rally, but the drunkenness. Personally, as always I can, I try to avoide and escape from that ZE's, to places where people live the rally and I do not stumble on drunkards sleeping while cars are passing.

[Rally Power]

I reshare what I wrotte some days ago....

You can reshare what ever you want but you’re only being foolish and selfish. Foolish for not understanding the passion of the fans and portray us as a bunch of drunks; selfish for just talking about minor issues and not being able to praise the incredible effort of hundreds of persons involved in the organization, providing all, including bitter people like you, the chance to see the most amazing sport on Earth; a chance that you clearly don’t deserve.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sordo quoted in Marca:
"I don't understand why Ogier talked about something that never happened. I like his compliments, but my team didn't mean to affect anyone, let alone to Toyota."

Hmmm.

[mknight]

Here is an explanation where both are correct:
Adamo suggests on a morning meeting that Sordo could stop in stage so that Neuville gets longer intervall for dust.
Sordo says it would hurt the one starting behind Neuville, cause he will have shorter interval.
Based on that they decide not to do it.

Ogier hears "Sordo refused to stop in stage cause it would hurt Meeke" from his source and makes a drama from it on press conf.

[Mirek]

Nice pass of Kopecký :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R57b0Yd_Bo

[dimviii]

Sordo quoted in Marca:
"I don't understand why Ogier talked about something that never happened. I like his compliments, but my team didn't mean to affect anyone, let alone to Toyota."

Hmmm.


so now who is the liar?
Sordo or Ogier?

what a clown...

[Allez Andruet]

Just an imaginary discussion between a fictive rally driver (let's call him Dani for example) and just as fictive team manager (let's make him Andrea for no obvious reason):

Andrea: So, Dani, you still want to drive those rallies as planned?
Dani: Yes.
Andrea: You want? Ok, good. Now do I have to tell you what to do next?
Dani: No.
Andrea: No? Ok, even better.

[dimviii]

Meeke
https://twitter.com/oscar_samp/status/1135495618942685184

[AL14]

Here is an explanation where both are correct:
Adamo suggests on a morning meeting that Sordo could stop in stage so that Neuville gets longer intervall for dust.
Sordo says it would hurt the one starting behind Neuville, cause he will have shorter interval.
Based on that they decide not to do it.

Ogier hears "Sordo refused to stop in stage cause it would hurt Meeke" from his source and makes a drama from it on press conf.

Lol
Let me recreate this dialogue.
A: "Hey Dani, my friend, you know I think you are a great driver, I always wanted to give you a full time contract but hey, why don't you help Thierry a little bit, you set aside and let him pass so that he has no dust?"
S: "Ehm boss, you decided to share the third car... By the way, if I let Thierry pass, then I would give more dust to Kris Meeke"
A: "Ouh, what a scatterbrain I am! I didn't considered it for a second!! No we don't want to hurt Toyota, you are right Dani, go and drive normally. Thank you for your advice".

[wrc2017]

Meeke
https://twitter.com/oscar_samp/status/1135495618942685184

and that was Meeke without a hand brake...

[denkimi]

So what is the cause in your opinion then? https://media.giphy.com/media/XBF6ojSF89hR7Ma1mp/giphy.gif

It does look a lot like a broken shock.

That must be great news for the manufacturers. They can stop spending millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of testing to develop and improve shock absorbers. Broken ones work just as well, or even better.

[Indreq]

It does look a lot like a broken shock.

That must be great news for the manufacturers. They can stop spending millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of testing to develop and improve shock absorbers. Broken ones work just as well, or even better.

I believe in case of JML, shock broke completely and didnt support the wheel any more. In case of OT it just lost damping ability. If the cars had double wishbone and not mcpherson, then JML could have continued as well...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Here is an explanation where both are correct:
Adamo suggests on a morning meeting that Sordo could stop in stage so that Neuville gets longer intervall for dust.
Sordo says it would hurt the one starting behind Neuville, cause he will have shorter interval.
Based on that they decide not to do it.

Ogier hears "Sordo refused to stop in stage cause it would hurt Meeke" from his source and makes a drama from it on press conf.

Sounds to me like Adamo was getting carried away, desperate to get Neuville as much help and points as possible after the disaster of Sordo's & Loeb's cars failing on Day 1.

Sordo has to explain to him the harm it would do to Meeke.

[racerx1979]

Whatever happened behind the scenes it surely affected Ogier mentally. Thinking about this, imagine if a source came up to you (as Ogier explains) and said they are planning to stop Sordo so Nueville can get no dust etc. This would mentally fire anyone up... Which can then cause you to push hard and crash. Luckily Ogier is a pro and he survived the power stage.

In the end Hyundai never did such a thing, but maybe they planted the seed in Ogier's head to cause problems. If Sordo did not indeed tell Ogier and Ogier had a different source, he should never trust that source again since all it did was cause stress.

Don't forget, Adamo is an Italian and looks like a mobster! He probably will continue to mind fu@k everyone. He's already booted Andreas without any hesitation. When he hugs people in the end it's scary. One of those "that's what you get for doing good, but do bad and I punch you just as hard as I hug you kind of hugs"

[mknight]

While I don't like Adamo (from what we have seen so far) , over the years there have been plenty of examples that Ogier can be quite nasty when things don't go his way or he is in a close fight.

Juts recently he basically got Loeb kicked from Citroen/PSA after 19? years cause he did not want him to drive part time there (with good road position on gravel) and take his points/overshadow him.

So I am just not buying the Adamo = evil, Ogier = saint, simple narrative that some seem to follow.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont believe this was mind-games against Ogier by Adamo. He mainly wanted to get better points for Neuville and forgot the bad effect his plan would have on Meeke.

And Ogier after hearing the story it didnt affect him at all in the rally. But maybe he did want to show Adamo in a bad light afterwards, to make him think twice about doing anything bad against him in future.

[mknight]

The tweet from Official WRC account with Ogier making the accusations seems to have been deleted today.
And I can't find the transcript of the press conference now (but that one was already missing most of it when it was first published).

[Rallyper]

This seems to be a FIA issue on next event. They, FIA, have to talk through this whole mess and clear it up once for all.

[dnb]

Juts recently he basically got Loeb kicked from Citroen/PSA after 19? years cause he did not want him to drive part time there

Do you have a source for this claim? It could be that Hyundai just made a better offer. (Citroen lost their main sponsor you know)

[racerx1979]

Do you have a source for this claim? It could be that Hyundai just made a better offer. (Citroen lost their main sponsor you know)

Ogier was crying when Citroen wanted to sign Loeb for a partial rally calender. Ogier said it's problematic, but I do not recall the exact quote...
I actually forgot about this and this is pretty bad when you really think about it.

EDIT: here is a good read:
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140357/ogier-wrc-rules-too-generous-to-guests-like-loeb

[mknight]

Following this article Budar said he wanted/needed 3rd driver that will do all events.
So it seems rather clear that Loeb wasn't welcome any more.

[deephouse]

Ogier was telling that he wanted Loeb to contest a full season, but behind the scenes he surely play different games.. Grow up, he will not change, he is what he is. A crying baby

[spiderem]

Ogier was telling that he wanted Loeb to contest a full season, but behind the scenes he surely play different games.. Grow up, he will not change, he is what he is. A crying baby

*A 6x world champion crying baby

[dimviii]

Rally Portugal 2019: "The longer it takes, the better? Not always ! "

" Hello everyone,



I repeated it all weekend, it was perhaps the longest rally of my career ... And hot, I told myself that there would be little to tell this Portugal 2019 And yet if ...



For starters, even though we did only two stages before our breakdown, it is true that I was a little less comfortable with the car compared to Chile. The decision to make the rally was late and we had to ride with the set-up 'differential' validated by Andreas in tests. Thierry was also the same as us, unlike Dani. It seems that this option still needs to be refined but I think we are in the right direction. We all know the gap between the Yaris WRC and the i20 WRC Cup today, and the team is working hard to fill it and has the merit of trying things.



That said, even if we were not very comfortable with the car, after two special stages, we were tied with Thierry and when we see the good race he did, there was room to do a good result I think. Unfortunately, we encountered this problem right from the start of the ES3 which made us lose more than 15 minutes. From there, the rally becomes totally different and the only thing to do is to join the finish to score some points for Hyundai Motorsport.





In the past, I would have tended to stop. And here, if I did not play a role in the constructors' championship, I would certainly have done the same. Not for lack of motivation because we are totally aware with Danos that we are privileged to ride with these cars on such events. But only because I never managed, of all my career, to roll when we were no longer in the game. It was the same when it was played early in the race at the time and after one or two stages, I was already a lot ahead. I always told myself the third day: "Fortunately, we have so much advance because I will never have managed to make their time today! ". It's just that I can not take the same risks when there is no longer a stake ... And this was the case this weekend. At each stage, I wondered where they were going to do these times, whereas a fortnight ago, we played with them in Chile.



Then, in terms of the strategies that marked this race, I obviously have my opinion on it. I do not like to be honest. I do not like it because I think there is a way to avoid it or at least make it less common. I do not like it either because I find myself "mingling" with the fight for the championship "pilots" when I do not play anything personally and that I absolutely did not come for that. And I can understand that it can annoy Seb Ogier or the others.



However, everyone does it. This is permitted by the regulations and any pilot or team has done so, and will do so as soon as they deem it necessary. So why not me ? Do not forget that Hyundai hired me to help them get the title from the builders and when they ask me to do something that is allowed by the rules to help or help a crew, I have to make. These are my bosses. Now, the FIA ​​certainly has a role to play to change that, and avoid unnecessary controversy for the image of our sport.

Have a little rest after this rally quite difficult, and then we will take with Danos the direction of the Vosges for a weekend that looks very nice on my land. It's been a long time since I put the wheels on it and moreover with the WRC, it will be, I hope, a nice party for all! And as "a happiness never comes alone", I can also announce that I will be at the start of the Rally Terre du Haut-Var with a Hyundai i20 R5 this time. I responded favorably to the invitation of the organization for what promises to be an equally enjoyable weekend!



See you in Gérardmer,

Seb. "

http://www.sebastienloeb.com/rallye-du-portugal-2019-plus-cest-long-plus-cest-bon-pas-toujours/

[dnb]

Ogier was telling that he wanted Loeb to contest a full season, but behind the scenes he surely play different games.. Grow up, he will not change, he is what he is. A crying baby

He plays mind games. I don't think he had anything to do with Loeb move to Hyundai. Also pretty sure that Loeb had already signed his deal (on November 26). Running order by championship standings is actually not fair, but they want to keep it interesting.

[EstWRC]

Tänak special, nice dance through the corners at 2:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRDxFPRLtqQ

[EstWRC]

whats going on between the stages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQyEY7hJEE


unfortunately cant really hear and understand what the Toyota guys are discussing

[deephouse]

*A 6x world champion crying baby

True that, but who else have so much talk against rules, FIA, other competitiors, teams like Mr. God. Except in that case when he is winning, then it isn't matter the way even if others suffer as lng as he benefit from it.

[Meekefan]

QUOTE=Rally Power;1219612]You can reshare what ever you want but you’re only being foolish and selfish. Foolish for not understanding the passion of the fans and portray us as a bunch of drunks; selfish for just talking about minor issues and not being able to praise the incredible effort of hundreds of persons involved in the organization, providing all, including bitter people like you, the chance to see the most amazing sport on Earth; a chance that you clearly don’t deserve.[/QUOTE]

Are not minor issues when the spectators are not respected by organization. People like me, which walked 10 km for each side to watch the rally, was not allowed to cross the road before 10 min to start the first car. Was a lack of respect for the spectators and non priority drivers, as if they were of minor importance than priority drivers. For these reason, I Will keep not going to ZE's. I Will not respect their advices and Will go to non ZE places. Just did not at Arganil stage, because I did not know the terrain. My fault...for the last time, I ensure!

And yes, Rally Portugal for a great quantity of people it is just a excuse to go out, to be away from his wifes during a night, to get drunk, etc...Sadly, that kind of people do not understand or do not know nothing about rally. For this reason, ZE are amazing for them, as that places are so good to make a party...but not to watch rally.

Then, try not to pass a picture of perfection about our rally, as it is not. From spectator point of view, you need hard a lot to go to good spots and constantly scaping from marshalls and Police. It is a shame, when one needs to hide behind a rock to not be expelled from a spot.

Sadly, we live in a politically correct world, where the most of people acts like a cattle, agreeing with all and saying "very well" about everything...

[Rally Power]

Stop being a fool; it hurts your brain (what’s left of it) and the others mood. Btw, next time try this before posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmU9PBDS-0k

[tommeke_B]

I do agree with Meekefan. Searching and finding your own place to see the action is an important part of spectating a rally. I like to arrive on a stage, have a walk, find a few corners I like and see what it brings. If I want to be on the fifth row of people, between drunks with radios, I can go to rallycross... In Sweden and Finland it works very well, to somehow keep those less interested fans on public areas, and still allow the "hardcore" spectators elsewhere, while they're behaving safely. Such a shame that isn't possible in Portugal or Poland, it's all or nothing...

[Rallyper]

Stop being a fool; it hurts your brain (what’s left of it) and the others mood. Btw, next time try this before posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmU9PBDS-0k

I think you could be humble enough to listen to what people say. Sometimes critics can be useful for coming events. Personally I hate marshalls trying to be police officers with own rules.
However in 2017 I had no problems walking away on my own to remote places in Rally Portugal.

[Meekefan]

Stop being a fool; it hurts your brain (what’s left of it) and the others mood. Btw, next time try this before posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmU9PBDS-0k

Are you that need to stop and think. Leave the cheap offence and, as far as I know, I was not rude with you. You are a person poor of argumentation and lack of critical spirit. Stop to buy all the things that someone is trying to sell to you. Think by yourself, do not be a sheep. Stop "to clap your hands", just because someane ordered to you.

[Rally Power]

I think you could be humble enough to listen to what people say. Sometimes critics can be useful for coming events. Personally I hate marshalls trying to be police officers with own rules.
However in 2017 I had no problems walking away on my own to remote places in Rally Portugal.

Mate I’m more than humble to recognize some faults here and there but I can’t accept the use of those faults to undermine the hard work of hundreds of persons supporting this brilliant event. It’s pretty clear that ZE’s are needed here; it’s the way RdP organizers found to solve spectators problematic behaviour from the past and turn the event into one of the safests of the calendar. Besides, ZE’s conditions, including its access, tend to improve year after year, which makes easy to believe that the issues reported in some of the new stages will be fixed next year.

Btw, you’ve forgot to mention the outrageous insults also made to RdP public, that no one should tolerate. Most of the fans don’t need to be rally experts to enjoy the event and feel the sport passion. In the dozens of RdP videos anyone can see thousands of people celebrating the sport and cheering the crews but some still insist we mostly are ‘drunkards sleeping while cars are passing’, shamefully forgetting that the Portuguese people motorsport passion, started a long time ago with the first street circuits in the ‘30s, is the main reason for our country to have so many international motorsport events.

[wwbroe]

I also agree partly with Meekefan. Alltough some of the spectator area's have good viewing, they are often too crowded to see decently the action. I must also agree that there is plenty of drunk people that are just sitting there to get drunk and are not very much interested in the rallycars. I also prefer to pick some of my own spots and alltough this has become difficult i still like to do so.
In the first stage on friday we arrived after a long uphill walk on Lousa stage. We were directed to the other side of the road by marshall and policeman. There we were standing in some spectatorpoint.
After the first R5 cars were passed we wanted to leave the stage to go to Arganil stage. We were not allowed to cross the road, alltough there were 4 minutes interval between the cars. We were told to wait untill all the cars were passed by. Strangely we were allowed to cross the road when the R2 cars were coming trough every minute. Strange thinking by organisators i must say.:D
The rally is well organised but sometimes they use some stupid rules. On the other hand sometimes police was very reasonable and allowed people to cross the stage to go back to their cars.
Anyhow, i had a good time in Portugal, i only think you don't have to say that everything is perfect (that is what Rally Power is basically saying)

[Simmi]

Yep I agree it's over-excessive in Portugal. Not a question of safety - rather people management. Like herding cattle.

Between helicopters, marshalls and police, like I said before, it's one rally where I really don't bother trying to stray from the zones. It just isn't worth the stress. I think once you've made peace with that it's a good event. But I disagree you can't see some good action in the spectator zones. They are far, far bigger than most rallies.

Crossing the stage can be a strange thing, depending on the place, the rally, or the marshal. It can be completely random sometimes.

[NielsH]

Thought the viewing on the ZE's was good. Really got annoyed with the GNR. Not speaking English, clueless when it comes to safety way to strict. But most of the time you could by-pass them pretty easily and the next one could be way more relaxed.

All in all I had a great time and I understand that with the history of WRC and safety in Portugal they do the things they do. Was my first WRC since Sweden 2010 and it is good to be back at the stages. Love that it is next to a city like Porto. Makes the whole experience great.

And with draft beers for a euro I understand they have a few haha!

Some of my pics (all from ZE's and without a mediatabard):

1775

1776

1777

https://www.rally-photo.net/2019-rally-de-portugal/

[Rally Power]

Some of my pics (all from ZE's and without a mediatabard)


Nice shots. Apparently we were pretty close on the ZE9 at Góis and not far on the 14 at Vieira; both wonderful spots. Next time here try the 22 at Cabeceiras; probably the most beautiful ZE of the rally.

Btw, nice footage from Vieira and Arganil jumps on this video by AV Racing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unx9CmsPk8s

[NielsH]

Nice shots. Apparently we were pretty close on the ZE9 at Góis and not far on the 14 at Vieira; both wonderful spots. Next time here try the 22 at Cabeceiras; probably the most beautiful ZE of the rally.

Thanks! I will keep it in mind, probably will go back next year. Had a really good time.