WRC Rally Mexico 2019

[jonkka]

Well this will be very interesting.....

Who is the CoC? A Mexican? - asking for NOT ;)

Yes, Jaime del Palacio

[Lead]

This rally is becoming a joke.

[EstWRC]

Haha I went to sauna and what a drama now.

At the moment they’re showing Ogier in 4th overall

[dimviii]

That and when they do that too.

when they have to give the times?

[jonkka]

when they have to give the times?

There is no set time limit. Luckily, I noticed that there's plenty of time before next stage so I am hoping to get the decision before then. Fingers crossed all the way up the arm pits.

[er88]

If they are being fair I don't think they can possibly give Ogier a time faster than someone like Tanak or Neuville.

[steve.mandzij]

If they are being fair I don't think they can possibly give Ogier a time faster than someone like Tanak or Neuville.Ogier Is provisional 4th, +51 secs.

[Rallyper]

Ogier +1:12
Latvala + 3:00 why that?

[N.O.T]

Ogier +1:12
Latvala + 3:00 why that?

they mean nothing... we must wait.

[N.O.T]

ok six nations time now... enough with the mexican trash.

never thought i would say that but

Go Wales.

[doubled1978]

Ogier +1:12
Latvala + 3:00 why that?

Presume they are the actual recorded times, as Latvala had to drive further under red flag..

[er88]

What do you guys think would be the "fairest" time loss they'll give Ogier compared with Meeke's time?

[N.O.T]

What do you guys think would be the "fairest" time loss they'll give Ogier compared with Meeke's time?

1 minute slower... you have to take the puncture into account as well.

[PLuto]

If I will be giving notional times, I should give time of Meeke to Ogier. And for Latvala time of Sordo, same like for the rest of the field.

[dimviii]

World Rally Championship
‏Verified account @OfficialWRC
18m18 minutes ago

�� ���� @RallyMexico SS10 ��

1️⃣ @KrisMeeke 17m44.9s
2️⃣ @ElfynEvans +12.1s
3️⃣ @OttTanak +19.1s
4️⃣ @ThierryNeuville +24.4s
5️⃣ @AMikkelsenRally +28.8s

Overall Standings
1️⃣ @KrisMeeke 1h36m39.8s
2️⃣ @ElfynEvans +5.8s
3️⃣ @OttTanak +35.1s


World Rally Championship
‏Verified account @OfficialWRC
18m18 minutes ago

(2/2) Red flag stopped the stage before @SebOgier & @JariMattiWRC could set a time. They'll both get notional times so the overall standings are provisional

[jonkka]

What do you guys think would be the "fairest" time loss they'll give Ogier compared with Meeke's time?

His last competitive split was 3rd, where his time was -8,5s vs Meeke's -17,9s. Multiply that by the factor of stage remaining and you get predicted loss at the end. That doesn't take into account possible tactics (Ogier often makes most at the end of the stage) or conditions (was his puncture getting better or worse) but it's based on facts.

[Morte66]

Clerk of the Course decides:

Art 39: When a special stage is interrupted or stopped for any reason, each crew affected will be allocated by the
clerk of the course a time which is judged the fairest.

Thank you. I think, this minute, I am glad that I am not the clerk of the course.

[mknight]

I think there is two options:

1. Both Ogier and Latvala get Evans time (same as SS1), that helps Ogier.

2. The most "fair" they could do is to give Ogier time relative to Meeke based on split 4 (if he didn't get red flag just before) and Latvala after split 2.

That would mean Ogier looses 18s and is 3s ahead of Meeke

(Doesn't really matter how it benefits Latvala or not imo as he is in SR and a few tens of seconds don't matter)

[Morte66]

i am very curious to see what times they will give.

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2019/post-93-0-95551300-1552143637.jpeg

That looks like a shot from a zombie movie.

[T16]

Why did they red flag the stage anyway?

Meeke and Evans had already gone through and it was only Ogier and Latvala left.

If you're gonna red flag it, do it after the WRC cars are through. 2nd gear corner and no real danger, worse cases of cars being stuck in Sweden ffs

It's either dangerous, or it isn't. They can't say they'll wait until after the WRC cars have passed just to keep the show on the road.

I think the most dangerous element was where the co-driver was stood... probably not an ideal spot and one a spectator wouldn't be allowed to stand in.

I'm pretty sure it was Meeke who flagged the official down after his brief interview with Colin Clarke after the end of the stage.

[tommeke_B]

They just messed up with that red flag. You should either do it immediately, already for the first car passing after Lappi, or you shouldn't do it at all... Now it's impossible to make any correct decision.

[pantealex]

SS10 and SS13 are same, usually 2nd runnings time has something to with their decicions (SS2 El Chokolade decicions went like that)

[satnav]

What do you guys think would be the "fairest" time loss they'll give Ogier compared with Meeke's time?

The organisers will have the tracking from the cars so they will know how far Ogier had to go when the red flag was received in the car and the exact time he had taken until then as well . Looking at the splits I don't know if Ogiers last split was before or after the red flag but he was 18.4 down on Meeke at that point , it will be an interesting decision …….

[mknight]

The organisers will have the tracking from the cars so they will know how far Ogier had to go when the red flag was received in the car and the exact time he had taken until then as well . Looking at the splits I don't know if Ogiers last split was before or after the red flag but he was 18.4 down on Meeke at that point , it will be an interesting decision …….

When Neuville got stuck in dust after one car that was changing puncture (don't remember who that was) in Portugal 2017, they used only split time differences, even though they had the tracking.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How the hell did Meeke do that time anyway ? Just amazing.

[bluuford]

They can take GPS data from the moment when the stage was redflagged. GPS tracks are recorded and timekeeping is GPS based, so, they can find the time difference between stage winner and Ogier/Latvala from the moment when red falg was applied. It is a bit hard to estimate further timeloss during the same stage as the puncture gets worse. Ogier should win from this decision abit, but it is the clearest fact-based decision they can take.

[dimviii]

Ogier have to manage 2 stages with no spare also(40,5km total)

[Mirek]

These calculated times are always about "what if". Personally I think that it's better to avoid and if possible give drivers, who are in direct fight, same notional time. The situation when it's needed is very rare and while we can say that it's unfair for the one who already finished and could have won some time we can say the same about calculated time loss for the other. You simply can not know what would have happened in the rest of the stage. That's why I think it's better to avoid any such calculation (generally speaking - of course in this particular case when we know that Ogier had a puncture it's impossible that he could have taken some time back).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They cant know for sure the exact point of Ogier's puncture so it cant be taken into account. Giving identical notional times of those involved are usual in such cases.

[er88]

How the hell did Meeke do that time anyway ? Just amazing.Was a great time and from nowhere really, he's been very solid all weekend up to this point but not showing the top speed.

Possible he could've been overdriving or pushing extra hard though, which ofcourse comes with risks. He didn't say too much at the stage end

[EstWRC]

i don’t get it why they cancelled it anyway

[er88]

These calculated times are always about "what if". Personally I think that it's better to avoid and if possible give drivers, who are in direct fight, same notional time. The situation when it's needed is very rare and while we can say that it's unfair for the one who already finished and could have won some time we can say the same about calculated time loss for the other. You simply can not know what would have happened in the rest of the stage. That's why I think it's better to avoid any such calculation (generally speaking - of course in this particular case when we know that Ogier had a puncture it's impossible that he could have taken some time back).They cant give him a better time than the last split though surely? He wouldn't have taken time back on Meeke with a puncture so at the very, very least he should lose 18.4s. Ogier would be delighted with that

[Morte66]

Also... where was the Tanak/Neuville charge up the leaderboard? Seems Meeke and Evans may have something to say about that.

[satnav]

As I said this will be an interesting coc decision , oh to be a fly on the wall...

[EstWRC]

Also... where was the Tanak/Neuville charge up the leaderboard? Seems Meeke and Evans may have something to say about that.

It was just one stage and mikkelsen said the cleaning is even worse today.

And i would say it’s tanaks least favorite gravel rally

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Was a great time and from nowhere really, he's been very solid all weekend up to this point but not showing the top speed.

Possible he could've been overdriving or pushing extra hard though, which ofcourse comes with risks. He didn't say too much at the stage end

Nearly a second per km faster than Tanak in the same car and only slightly better road position is unbelievable.

[COD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1OZp00W0AYEJLF.jpg

Seems to be enough room for others to get passed that

[dimviii]

https://m.twitch.tv/motorsporttvde/

[Morte66]

They cant know for sure the exact point of Ogier's puncture so it cant be taken into account. Giving identical notional times of those involved are usual in such cases.

I think that is for the best in the long term. It's the same rules for everybody, and what goes around comes around.

If they do some complex calculation somebody will complain that it was wrong maths, or accuse the COC of bias, or whatever.

Just so long as they always do the same thing, so it is the same rules for everybody.

[er88]

If I will be giving notional times, I should give time of Meeke to Ogier. And for Latvala time of Sordo, same like for the rest of the field.Then you'd be an idiot with the information available, no offence :)

[Tarmop]

Well, 5 WRC without restart remain. Could be a Turkey scenario, where from 6th place pace you get the win.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems to be enough room for others to get past

Meeke did and still set fastest time !

[the sniper]

i don’t get it why they cancelled it anyway


I'm pretty sure it was Meeke who flagged the official down after his brief interview with Colin Clarke after the end of the stage.

I still wonder whether this was a factor. Meeke wanted to do a quick interview, but let Colin Clark walk away before beckoning him back over to talk to him off mic. Seemed weird if he didn't want to hang around. It'd be ironic if he played a part in the red flag coming out, given what it cost him...

[ZequeArgentina]

This is the key point, I also see enough space for passing, I can not get the reason for red flagging !!!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier could argue the red flag alert distracted him causing him to hit a rock and puncture. Just sayin...

[T16]

Ogier could argue the red flag alert distracted him causing him to hit a rock and puncture. Just sayin...

You’re having a laugh, right?

[Tauri_J]

Ogier could argue the red flag alert distracted him causing him to hit a rock and puncture. Just sayin...

he hit a rock before red flag

[tommeke_B]

Ogier could argue the red flag alert distracted him causing him to hit a rock and puncture. Just sayin...

He can't. At the finish he said he hit a rock in the line, and he could not avoid it.

[T16]

I still wonder whether this was a factor. Meeke wanted to do a quick interview, but let Colin Clark walk away before beckoning him back over to talk to him off mic. Seemed weird if he didn't want to hang around. It'd be ironic if he played a part in the red flag coming out, given what it cost him...

Ahh... I didn’t realise it was Clarke who came back to the car. I thought it was an official.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Here we go ... Tanak flying on this one.

[dimviii]

big time differences at this stage seems from splits.

[Mirek]

They cant give him a better time than the last split though surely? He wouldn't have taken time back on Meeke with a puncture so at the very, very least he should lose 18.4s. Ogier would be delighted with that

Yes, in this particular case but it's not only Ogier who was stopped by the red flag. And for the other who had no punctures (in this case Latvala but it can be whoever next time) You can not know what would they achieve in the canceled part of the stage and that's why it's very tricky to allocate any notional time. All options are unfair in a way.

I think that in this case it was really stupid to use the red flag in the moment when they did it (there was no immediate danger). Had they did it after Latvala they could have given everybody else the same notional time and it would be fair and square to everyone.

[mknight]

Meeke slow 2nd split

[er88]

Meeke very slow. Possible trouble

[the sniper]

Ahh... I didn’t realise it was Clarke who came back to the car. I thought it was an official.

That's who I thought was at the time anyway!

[SubaruNorway]

Mikkelsen had some small problem they said at the stage end, stalling i think they said

[Tarmop]

What is this talk in some places, that it Was Lappi pushing the red button, after Ogier getting a puncture.

Some vivid fantasies?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke with an issue. Toyota Achilles heel again ?

[N.O.T]

possible engine problem for meeke !!!

NONE ESCAPES THE finish VILLAGE TEAM OF NOBODIES....

disgraceful

[Rallyper]

Ok. That´s it Meeke second to suffer.

After all this load of ... so unfair.

[dimviii]

Sat 10:38 - SS11: Meeke
Just on Meeke, we're getting reports of a potential engine problem for him - there's reports from WRC TV crews of oil visible on co-driver Seb Marshall's side of the car.

[er88]

What a disaster. How lucky can Ogier get

[tomhlord]

It's on for Tanak, win is possible.

[dimviii]

Tanak maybe leader after the stage,and corrections of times from the red flaged stage

[Rallyper]

If camera crew are experienced they could judge by the smell what oil is leaking... :)

[tomhlord]

I'm wondering if Meeke is running in two-wheel-drive?

[SubaruNorway]

Looks more like a rear puncture

[Mirek]

RR puncture for Meeke based on what is visible on the screen.

This is really super bitter for Meeke.

[mknight]

rear right

[tomhlord]

Looks more like a rear puncture

Yup, that's it. A shame this stage isn't red flagged...

[N.O.T]

puncture for meeke

[KKS]

this rally makes me sad. Real car breaker

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Take it back. Not the car just a puncture.

[BigWorm]

The rally that keeps on giving

[Norm75]

Thought it was a puncture. That'll play into Ogier hands, sure Evans will now lose time due to hanging dust.

[tomhlord]

Amazing they made it through there really.

[tomhlord]

Ogier hasn't been given Meeke's time from the previous stage.

[N.O.T]

Ogiers time for previous stage +22 secs from meeke... i think its fair.

[Tarmop]

Oh, Ogier got his time from the previous one....interesting.

[jonkka]

Ogier has been given the notional time of 18m 07.3sec. That put him 22.4sec down on Meeke on the stage and second overall.

[N.O.T]

Ogier has been given Meeke's time from the previous stage.

no... they did not...

british people... oh god....

[jonkka]

Latvala got better notional time, interestingly.

[mknight]

Latvala got better notional time, interestingly.

Well nobody really cares what time he gets. As long as it is within +-+20s of the others.

[er88]

Real bitter blow for Meeke that.

Now he's 20s behind Neuville!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good run by Ogier.

[steve.mandzij]

Latvala got better notional time, interestingly.He'd been almost matching Meeke's pace. Fair to me.

[Rallyper]

What??!! Latvala is still on the stage!
WRC+ what are you doing!

[N.O.T]

fair times given by the mexicans... so maybe we build the wall a bit shorter.

[Jewy46]

Meeke must have used up all his luck in Mexico 2 years ago because he certainly has none today, gutted for him

[KKS]

Latvala should destroy that time!

[RallyTyger]

fair times given by the mexicans... so maybe we build the wall a bit shorter.

Anyway, Mexicans will just build a silly jump to get over the wall

[mknight]

What??!! Latvala is still on the stage!
WRC+ what are you doing!

He is not running in the right starting order cause he decided to take (unimportant) time penalty to get better road position. That means he destroys their schedule relative to the next stage which is a direct-TV stage.

In any case he is in superrally.

[Mirek]

What??!! Latvala is still on the stage!
WRC+ what are you doing!

That's a punishment for him playing with the starting order :D

EDIT: I'm slow, grrr

[jonkka]

Just four cars haven't had any major problems. Which one of them is next?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1O18ZOW0AEJMjW.jpg

[Rallyper]

He is not running in the right starting order cause he decided to take (unimportant) time penalty to get better road position. That means he destroys their schedule relative to the next stage which is a direct-TV stage.

In any case he is in superrally.

What a rubbish talk. Flexibility is what´s needed here. It´s live coverage!

[Morte66]

Just four cars haven't had any major problems. Which one of them is next?

I'm beginning to wonder if we'll see a driver that restarted on the podium.

[Rallyper]

That's a punishment for him playing with the starting order :D

EDIT: I'm slow, grrr

But seriously Mirek, is this the coverage we want to see. The guys playing fo best outcome, we punish them by not showing them in All Live?

Is that what we want? At least they should be so clever they could differ out what is WRC cars and not...

[mknight]

What a rubbish talk. Flexibility is what´s needed here. It´s live coverage!

He is breaking the rules on purpose, just like Ogier was in Sweden this year. And just like Tanak and Neuville were here in Mexico last year and Ogier in Sweden.

He is getting penalized for it (just like all the others were), by getting timepenalties. The problem obviously is that the timepenalties at this point mean nothing to him (as long as he stays ahead of next manu car (Sordo), none of the other 2 Toyotas retire and he has a change for PS points).

This is not meant to point fingers at Latvala. I am very sure Hyundai would have done the same with both their drivers if they were not cleaning for Neuville...and Citroen has already done the same in Sweden.

I think FIA will soon introduce a rule that would say that any car in superrally that takes timepenalties (no matter the cause) will loose any powerstage and manu points. That might have some effect. Else this thing will be with us the whole season.

[Rallyper]

He is breaking the rules on purpose, just like Ogier was in Sweden this year. And just like Tanak and Neuville were here in Mexico last year and Ogier in Sweden.

He is getting penalized for it (just like all the others were), by getting timepenalties. The problem obviously is that the timepenalties at this point mean nothing to him (as long as he stays ahead of next manu car (Sordo), none of the other 2 Toyotas retire and he has a change for PS points).

This is not meant to point fingers at Latvala. I am very sure Hyundai would have done the same with both their drivers if they were not cleaning for Neuville...and Citroen has already done the same in Sweden.

I think FIA will soon introduce a rule that would say that any in superrally that takes timepenalties (no matter the cause) will loose any powerstage and manu points. That might have someeffect. Else this thing will be with us the whole season.

So punished by not be televised then, you mean? Give up.

Does it mean we don´t want to se him?

[N.O.T]

So punished by not be televised then, you mean? Give up.

Does it mean we don´t want to se him?

a reminder..

you are arguing with a british person...

[Mirek]

But seriously Mirek, is this the coverage we want to see. The guys playing fo best outcome, we punish them by not showing them in All Live?

Is that what we want? At least they should be so clever they could differ out what is WRC cars and not...

That was a joke...

[KKS]

So that moaning french leading again now?

[jonkka]

I think FIA will soon introduce a rule that would say that any car in superrally that takes timepenalties (no matter the cause) will loose any powerstage and manu points.

That would defeat whole purpose of restarting which was implemented to get more cars into stages. Besides, how would you know if their late check into TC wasn't due to genuine problem? Incidentally, we've seen this before, I am thinking Richard Burns changing tyre in Australia 2000 I think.

[mknight]

So punished by not be televised then, you mean? Give up.

Does it mean we don´t want to se him?

It's not like they decided now on purpose not to show him.

They set up a schedule of what is happening when and when they need to start rigging for the direct-TV stage. As you notice they seem to use different studio and have to move commenters and probably a few others things. There is always a break in allive before and after direct tv stages.

[mknight]

That would defeat whole purpose of restarting which was implemented to get more cars into stages. Besides, how would you know if their late check into TC wasn't due to genuine problem? Incidentally, we've seen this before, I am thinking Richard Burns changing tyre in Australia 2000 I think.

There already is the same rule for Sunday. Any timepenalties mean no PS points, no matter how "genuine" they were.

[dimviii]

virtual points till last stage

Τanak 62
Ogier 56
Neuville 52

[Morte66]

I like this little stage 12. Good road, small enough to see the whole of each run for each car, but a proper stage unlike like the stadiums.

[jonkka]

There already is the same rule for Sunday. Any timepenalties mean no PS points, no matter how "genuine" they were.

Doesn't that rule apply only for Power Stage or do you refer to something else?

[mufcAleksi]

That "jump" seems to be a flop. Nobody in their right mind will try to jump maximum distance with these settings, it's not like Finland where you can flat out every jump

[tomhlord]

Meeke with technical issues.

[KKS]

Whats going on for Meeke? /no tv for me/

[er88]

Toyota does have problems. Just no luck for Kris unfortunately for him

[SubaruNorway]

Did they change the jump? the landing looks different now

[tomhlord]

He's driving through in road mode.

[mknight]

Doesn't that rule apply only for Power Stage or do you refer to something else?

I believe it applies to any TC penalty trough whole sunday, but it only means you don't get PS points, nothing about manus.

EDIT: Nah it's actually only for TC before PS
"- Any crew which does not start the Power Stage in the given order will not be eligible to score Power Stage
points as per Art. 5.3.2 of the 2019 FIA WRC Sporting Regulations. Such crew may neither detract points
from other drivers."

[the sniper]

Nice couple of stage side camera positions being used near the end. NOT's army of photographers after the crappy fake jump should learn some lessons from the WRC TV guys...

[tomhlord]

Wow, so slow. Right rear wheel at an angle.

[EstWRC]

Oh man I’m worried about Tänak now. 2 Toyota’s already broken Down

[Mirek]

I feel really sorry for Meeke. He's no child of fortune at all.

[er88]

Shots fired

[tomhlord]

"Citroen played some dirty tactics this morning." - Meeke.

[Rallyper]

Dirty tactics...? Meeke maybe do know what did go on.

[the sniper]

Lappi pushed the red button on seeing Ogier's puncture...? (Following Meeke's comment)

[jonkka]

EDIT: Nah it's actually only for TC before PS

I was just about to post the same :)

[Rallyper]

So if Citroen really did what was mentioned here earlier as well, what should be the outcome of that?

So interesting on what ground the decision was taken and on what information...

[denkimi]

Oh man I’m worried about Tänak now. 2 Toyota’s already broken Down
only the leading drivers of the 4 different teams are remaining now.

[SubaruNorway]

If they find out that Citroen did that for tactics since they knew Ogier had a problem that must clearly mean exclusion?

It all makes sense now, seen that Ogier face before...

[USER47]

Lappi pushed the red button on seeing Ogier's puncture...? (Following Meeke's comment)
It was red flagged before Ogier passed Lappi.

[tomhlord]

Ogier in a different class.

[Rallyper]

He should be another 40-50 secs down the order...

[dimviii]

I feel really sorry for Meeke. He's no child of fortune at all.

it was his mistake to dont stop and change the wheel with so many stage kms left.
at the end he lost 1 min 30 sec,same time he would need to change the wheel,without risking extra breakdowns.

[Mirek]

It was red flagged before Ogier passed Lappi.

That's irrelevant. If Lappi did push the SOS button (pure speculation) he did it on the team order not on his own decision.

[the sniper]

Ooh, the look on Ogier's face when Molly brought up the "dirty tactics"...

[er88]

If they find out that Citroen did that for tactics since they knew Ogier had a problem that must clearly mean exclusion?It does seem awfully strange; not just WHY they red flagged the stage, but WHEN they decided to do it.

[Rallyper]

There´s a difference between tactics and dirty tactics. All Live mixing things up.

Deciding to come late in to TC has a rule for it.

Red flagging in times doesn´t.

[drive]

Lappi pushed the red button on seeing Ogier's puncture...? (Following Meeke's comment)

how would Lappi know about it and react so prompt? naaah, just another conspiracy theory :)

[KKS]

Second stage win in a row for Latvala! Great!

[jonkka]

Lappi pushed the red button on seeing Ogier's puncture...? (Following Meeke's comment)

Ummm, I don't think so because that would have been emergency call and stage would have been stoppped, not red flagged, and rescue crews would have been sent on the spot.

[mknight]

That's irrelevant. If Lappi did push the SOS button (pure speculation) he did it on the team order not on his own decision.

Isn't it still the decision of the stage-boss to decide to stop it or not?

[Rallyper]

It does seem awfully strange; not just WHY they red flagged the stage, but WHEN they decided to do it.

Yep. 10+

[Rallyper]

Now some Barca football...

[denkimi]

abusing the sos button for tactics should be exclusion. if it is done on the orders of the team it should be exclusion of that team.

but i doubt citroen will have done that, even they can't be that desperate and stupid.

[Mirek]

Isn't it still the decision of the stage-boss to decide to stop it or not?

Yes but what would You do if a works team was signaling emergency?

We are speculating of course but there seems to be something smelling here anyway.

[KKS]

Seems to be enough room for others to get passed that
It's twice wider that Suninen on SS2. That rally org's just pure sick dogs for red-flagging that stage because of this

[pantealex]

Now some Barca football...

What ?

Barca plays twice every week and we only have 14 WRC rallies in year.

Wrong decision Per !

[mknight]

Yes but what would You do if a works team was signaling emergency?

We are speculating of course but there seems to be something smelling here anyway.

Another idea:
What if they forgot (on purpose or not) to push the "OK" button? I believe there is some timer that sends an alarm if you stand still for longer time and don't push it.

[ZequeArgentina]

"Citroen played some dirty tactics this morning." - Meeke. from pictures of Lappi’s incident there was enough space for Ogier and Latvala to go through the route. If they communicate with organization and team and got to know Ogier puncture, then it is suspicious. Did they told organization they were blocking the road??

[Morte66]

{edit: brain failure removed}

Or maybe Meeke was just bitter after the puncture and saying things he'll regret.

[jonkka]

Another idea:
What if they forgot (on purpose or not) to push the "OK" button? I believe there is some timer that sends an alarm if you stand still for longer time and don't push it.

That is technically possible but events would have unravelled differently. Firstly, failure to press OK within one minute of stopping would have activated the same emergency stage stop procedure as if they had themselves pressed the SOS on FIA Safety Tracking Device. Eg, stage would have been stopped, not red flagged. Also, how Lappi would have known it soon enough not to press it because that would have been his first instinct after getting stuck and before even calling the team on radio (and hear about Ogier's problems). No, that doesn't stand water.

[lnvs]

It's twice wider that Suninen on SS2. That rally org's just pure sick dogs for red-flagging that stage because of thisLappi had rear in the bushes. Could be fire hazard.

After what Latvala did for Meeke it's stupid to cry for tactics.

[Mirek]

That is technically possible but events would have unravelled differently. Firstly, failure to press OK within one minute of stopping would have activated the same emergency stage stop procedure as if they had themselves pressed the SOS on FIA Safety Tracking Device. Eg, stage would have been stopped, not red flagged. Also, how Lappi would have known it soon enough not to press it because that would have been his first instinct after getting stuck and before even calling the team on radio (and hear about Ogier's problems). No, that doesn't stand water.

You're right. Maybe we'll never know... and maybe nothing like that happend at all.

[denkimi]

it is very weird that the stage was red flagged because of lappi's off. they could have pulled him out within minutes and restarted the stage without any issues.

[Ds3]

Now some Barca football...

Do you mind Barca ....?

[N.O.T]

how close is Salamanca to the rally ? its in the same region as the rally

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1097804/salamanca-nightclub-shooting-mexico-gunmen-latest-news-La-Playa-nightclub

Its quite close tot he area of the stages actually... about 100kms from leon and far closer to some of the stages..

nice job FIA... nice job.

can we please get rid of this rally run in an oversized cartel and move it to a real country ???

[er88]

Of course speculation, but i think Citroen have gone "full sick dog" mode here when they saw the worsening splits of Ogier vs Meeke. And also, Budar was very quick on the attack when interviewed after Lappi went off, saying it was Toyota who were the ones playing games and tactics with Jari starting late.

Citroen/ Ogier should be excluded if they've done what's been speculated. There's a difference between "tactics within the rules" like starting someone on super rally late, to outright cheating by red flagging a stage when there's no reason to. And there wasn't a reason to red flag it, nevermind how strange the timing of it was. Do it straight away or not at all - Ogier was the ONLY relevant WRC car left to finish the stage when it got red flagged....

At least Molly and the others should have some interesting questions to ask for once in the media zone/service coming up ;)

[KKS]

I think FIA will soon introduce a rule that would say that any car in superrally that takes timepenalties (no matter the cause) will loose any powerstage and manu points. That might have some effect. Else this thing will be with us the whole season.
oh man, stop that bullshit

[T16]

Or maybe Meeke was talking about Latvala dropping down the order, and not the red flag at all.

Or maybe he was just bitter after the puncture and saying things he'll regret.

Latvala isn’t a Citroen driver though.

[Tauri_J]

how close is Salamanca to the rally ? its in the same region as the rally

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1097804/salamanca-nightclub-shooting-mexico-gunmen-latest-news-La-Playa-nightclub

around 100km

[Morte66]

Latvala isn’t a Citroen driver though.

Oh, you're right. Don't know what I was thinking of...

[KKS]

Lappi had rear in the bushes. Could be fire hazard.

After what Latvala did for Meeke it's stupid to cry for tactics.
Did you see fire or any smoke? "rear in a bushes" it's not a reason for fire.

[mknight]

Well if Citroen did something blatantly wrong (like telling Lappi to push SOS button) then they should and will be punished.

The other option is that they just went to the organizers and said "the car is in a turn and you don't have any marshals there to slow cars down, we don't want to get any dangerous situation or damage". Under this pressure the organizers could have decided to stop the stage. That kind of behavior is obviously questionable but they will be hardly punished as it was not their decision.

[lnvs]

Did you see fire or any smoke? "rear in a bushes" it's not a reason for fire.Did you see there wasn't any fire or smoke? Hopefully we get some clarification soon to get over this nonsense.

[EstWRC]

Ooh, the look on Ogier's face when Molly brought up the "dirty tactics"...

I wasn’t the only one who noticed this !!!

[Norm75]

I wasn’t the only one who noticed this !!!
Molly misquoted Kris and said Meeke accused "You" of dirty tactics when speaking to Ogier.
Kris clearly said Citroen.

[mknight]

Molly misquoted Kris and said Meeke accused "You" of dirty tactics when speaking to Ogier.
Kris clearly said Citroen.

Obviously "you" in that case means Citroen which Ogier is part of. Clearly Ogier couldn't play dirty tactics when he is on the stage and can't communicate.

[janvanvurpa]

Anyway, Mexicans will just build a silly jump to get over the wall

Or a few more big tunnels than they have already...but this time with jumps.:eek:

[Morte66]

Molly misquoted Kris and said Meeke accused "You" of dirty tactics when speaking to Ogier.
Kris clearly said Citroen.
Yeah, I noticed that too.

No good will come of this.

[br21]

guys, too much of conspiracy theories...
WRC cars have decent system which sends data to rally HQ in case of car stopped, G-forces, temperatures, etc, etc. So it's not that easy to cheat. Plus organizers also watching TV so seeing what is happening...
When you press red button, then ambulance needs to go, etc and nothing like that happened.
Also not pressing OK button during 1min is not automatically stopping the stage, if it would be like that then you will have it happening few times every wrc event (normal event, with +50 participants:), just look on Notice Board after the event, how many penalties for not pressing OK in time.

[EstWRC]

#tyre info - Day 2 afternoon

@ElfynEvans, @OttTanak, @krismeeke, @JariMattiWRC, @thierryneuville & @DaniSordo: 5 MICHELIN LTX Force Hard (H4)

@AMikkelsenRally: 3 M6 + 2 H4

@SebOgier: 5 H4 + 1 M6

[USER47]

Yeah, the theories about Citroen seem to be bit of a stretch. I think the red flag was unnecessary, but most likely it was just due to overcautious organizers and somewhat unfortunate location of the stuck car (right behind the turn blocking the standard outside line).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems Makinen has backtracked from Meeke's comment and not condemned Citroen at all:

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-ei-tuominnut-citroenia-mutta-mm-rallin-jarjestajat-saivat-noottia/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ha gate shut on Mikkelsen !

[mknight]

lol

[EstWRC]

Ban this rally, they have the gate closed for mikkelsen

[er88]

Fuck sake. Get rid of this rally lol

[mknight]

Fuck sake. Get rid of this rally lol

Yeah, tractors on the road are better... or fire trucks...... :D

[er88]

You'd think by now Mexico would've placed marshalls at these gates?!!!

[er88]

Yeah, tractors on the road are better... or fire trucks...... :DPoland has gone and Australia is on shaky ground ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

OFFICIAL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1PpjeKXcAI-VCP.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1PqOhSXQAACWAN.jpg

[denkimi]

OFFICIAL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1PpjeKXcAI-VCP.jpg:large
it remains fishy to me. why did they only decide it was dangerous after the 4th car was about to pass? why did they decide it was so dangerous to cancel the stage while we have seen on many occasions that they normally just leave the cars in place, even on much more dangerous places?
and mostly: why did they not stop the stage, remove lappi's car and restart?

[mknight]

and mostly: why did they not stop the stage, remove lappi's car and restart?

How do you do that when Ogier and Latvala are 2/3 in the stage? I mean you can do it, but those two won't drive back to start and drive again.

[AnttiL]

How do you do that when Ogier and Latvala are 2/3 in the stage? I mean you can do it, but those two won't drive back to start and drive again.

Close a gate :D

[EstWRC]

this is just...i have no words

BAN THIS RALLY

[Lord_Shaitan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1PqOhSXQAACWAN.jpg

You shall not pass!!!

[br21]

my experience with Rally Mexico officials tells me they are pretty slow with reactions and/or not always making proper ones (like the jump in Guanajuato, not secured gate, etc) so I believe this was the main reason why it happened so late (red flag decision).
Also Lappi went off some 25kms from the start, so sending some help to recover the car and then restart the stage would take way too much time, minimum an hour but I believe in local conditions closer to two...

[mknight]

Looks less and less likely that anyone can change position based on driving only (without issues).

[denkimi]

How do you do that when Ogier and Latvala are 2/3 in the stage? I mean you can do it, but those two won't drive back to start and drive again.
you stop the next car at the start, send a tow truck on the stage, remove the car and restart the stage.

basically like they do it in almost every rally. if they would cancel a stage each time a car stops on a stage the late starters would not drive a single one.

[mknight]

What's the point of replying to a post that you didn't even read?

[EstWRC]

Meeke bettered his morning stage time only by 4 seconds while Ott did 36 seconds

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans going well again, not losing much to Tanak.

Faster now !

[T16]

you stop the next car at the start, send a tow truck on the stage, remove the car and restart the stage.

basically like they do it in almost every rally. if they would cancel a stage each time a car stops on a stage the late starters would not drive a single one.

I have never know a organiser stop a stage, send a tow truck and restart again.

Also, what happens about the cars that are mid-stage?

Ten past nine in the UK... have you been on the booze?

[T16]

Come on Evans.

[EstWRC]

nice run Evans, hats off

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yesssss Elf !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier going to monster everyone again.

[Rallyper]

What ?

Barca plays twice every week and we only have 14 WRC rallies in year.

Wrong decision Per !

No because this rally is a joke. Even more now seeing Mikkelsen having to stop and open gate...

[T16]

Wouldn't Evans be leading now, if the stage wasn't stopped earlier? (as in - if Ogier had suffered the full consequences of his puncture)

[er88]

my experience with Rally Mexico officials tells me they are pretty slow with reactions and/or not always making proper ones (like the jump in Guanajuato, not secured gate, etc) so I believe this was the main reason why it happened so late (red flag decision).
Also Lappi went off some 25kms from the start, so sending some help to recover the car and then restart the stage would take way too much time, minimum an hour but I believe in local conditions closer to two...Too busy on the Corona's

[Rallyper]

So why didn´t Ogier get those 1 min 12 seconds notional time? That would´ve been the proper numbers.

[AnttiL]

I have never know a organiser stop a stage, send a tow truck and restart again.

Sordo in Germany 2017. Was near the start of the stage.

[T16]

Sordo in Germany 2017. Was near the start of the stage.

Was the stage live with other drivers too? Some completed it, some in it?

Good knowledge BTW, AnttiL.

[mknight]

So why didn´t Ogier get those 1 min 12 seconds notional time? That would´ve been the proper numbers.

Cause at least 20ish second of that time was driving slowly on a red-flagged stage. (it was his actual time trough that stage)

[AnttiL]

Was the stage live with other drivers too? Some completed it, some in it?

Good knowledge BTW, AnttiL.

I don't know but it was 600 m from the start so easily controllable. It also resulted in exceptional times from Lappi and Mikkelsen as the stage was drying for them.

[denkimi]

I have never know a organiser stop a stage, send a tow truck and restart again.

Also, what happens about the cars that are mid-stage?

Ten past nine in the UK... have you been on the booze?
so what do you think will happen when a car blocks the stage or stops in a dangerous place? which happens pretty much every stage when you have a decent number of competitors. you think they cancel it every time?

i assume you have never driven a rally yourself?

[T16]

so what do you think will happen when a car blocks the stage or stops in a dangerous place? which happens pretty much every stage when you have a decent number of competitors. you think they cancel it every time?

i assume you have never driven a rally yourself?


At WRC level, they just can't stop the stage and start it again. What about tyre wear? fuel onboard each car? What does it matter if I have driven a rally or not?

[mknight]

I don't know but it was 600 m from the start so easily controllable. It also resulted in exceptional times from Lappi and Mikkelsen as the stage was drying for them.

But Sordo wasn't on the road at all, he jumped off a steep hill. So they stopped the stage for some time, but then restarted, no tow truck.

[COD]

With all these incidents, I really believe that Rally Mexico organizers are not up to the task. Add the pathetic number of crews taking part and the only wise decision would be to axe the rally from WRC.

[the sniper]

With all these incidents, I really believe that Rally Mexico organizers are not up to the task. Add the pathetic number of crews taking part and the only wise decision would be to axe the rally from WRC.

I do think that Mexico has become the clear candidate to be replaced by the Safari, if that does happen next year. At least the Safari would be a different setting and have more potential and scope to improve.

[steve.mandzij]

I do think that Mexico has become the clear candidate to be replaced by the Safari, if that does happen next year. At least the Safari would be a different setting and have more potential and scope to improve.The only reason I'd keep Mexico is for the altitude wildcard but Argentina, or at least El Cóndor, covers that nicely.

[KKS]

Did Mexico goes to DST this night?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1PyiNCXcAIDbtz.jpg

[N.O.T]

I am watching wrc+ and i have a serious question...

how you avoid getting cancer from those retards talking all the time ABOUT STUPID SHIT THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ?

I honestly think i will need chemo after sunday....

[Rallyper]

I am watching wrc+ and i have a serious question...

how you avoid getting cancer from those retards talking all the time ABOUT STUPID SHIT THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ?

I honestly think i will need chemo after sunday....

Well, in a way I agree. We´ve heard them for a long time now, including WRR. Time for a change.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Brilliant OB from Neuville's car.

(Spoiled by talking from the commentators :( )

[Rallyper]

Cause at least 20ish second of that time was driving slowly on a red-flagged stage. (it was his actual time trough that stage)

You were actually there?

[mknight]

You were actually there?

Alllive had helicopter and onboard shots of Ogier driving the last part of the stage?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak wow..pushing haaard !

[KKS]

Some weird revving by Tanak car

[Rallyper]

Alllive had helicopter and onboard shots of Ogier driving the last part of the stage?

So you recognized the time the puncture occured, then?

[N.O.T]

Tanak could be ahead of Evans after this one... or very very close

[AL14]

I am watching wrc+ and i have a serious question...

how you avoid getting cancer from those retards talking all the time ABOUT STUPID SHIT THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ?

I honestly think i will need chemo after sunday....

lol. I would have loved to listen to you instead of them.

"Now we have sick dog Ostberg taking the stage, I wonder how many money daddy spent to make him drive today, do you know colin?"
"Mr Kaiser, ehmmm Ogier is going to lead the rally, let's see what will he moan about now"
"NOT Latvala has a problem" "Well Becsy I would say that after 10 years in the sport you freaking know how to drive a car, don't you think?"
And stuff like that... :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Better would be the option of no commentators at all. Just pure rally sounds.

[N.O.T]

lol. I would have loved to listen to you instead of them.

"Now we have sick dog Ostberg taking the stage, I wonder how many money daddy spent to make him drive today"
"Mr Kaiser, ehmmm Ogier is going to lead the rally, let's see what will he moan about now"
"NOT Latvala has a problem" "Well Becsy I would say that after 10 years in the sport you freaking know how to drive a car, don't you think?"
And stuff like that... :D

yes... but they cannot afford me.

[mknight]

So you recognized the time the puncture occured, then?

You should lower the booze consumption.

When alllive started showing Ogier he had quite a lot left to go towards the end and was driving at road-going pace. Even with puncture he could have gone much faster, but wasn't cause the stage was red-flagged.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems Evans has blown it on this one... cant match Tanak at all.

[dimviii]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/5ebead1c3d8f02107624a46714bc2801.jpg

[Rallyper]

You should lower the booze consumption.

When alllive started showing Ogier he had quite a lot left to go towards the end and was driving at road-going pace. Even with puncture he could have gone much faster, but wasn't cause the stage was red-flagged.

You think I´m saying this bcs of booze? Skip that humiliating rubbish, please.

I´m seriously asking you what you did see. Which I didn´t. So if you´re so sure Ogier only lost 20 seconds, having a puncture for so long time, to me that´s not notional time.
But mixing facts with bull, makes me wonder what you actually saw, or know.

[steve.mandzij]

Nice time from Jari. No result this weekend but he's found the pace today at least (yes yes, road position pish posh and all).

[racerx1979]

I agree the time loss given to Ogier is off. I'm sure Hyundai and TGR will dispute

[KKS]

Nice time from Jari. No result this weekend but he's found the pace today at least (yes yes, road position pish posh and all).
He need to push to try get R5 cars

[dnb]

Safari would have even less competitors

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I agree the time loss given to Ogier is off. I'm sure Hyundai and TGR will dispute

Tommi Mäkinen:
'It was probably a bit of hesitation on the organizer's side. It should have been seen and made that everyone got through it. You wouldn't have had to speculate on any time then. However, I think that it didn't happen in the end. We talked and analyzed with our boys that it went quite reasonably."

Mäkinen spoke to MTV Sports.

[mufcAleksi]

Helicopter shots from this stage are beautiful

[EstWRC]

lol the bumper gone of Tänaks car...getting rid of it for super specials :D

[N.O.T]

those screaming mexicans at the end of stage deserve the ICE treatment....

[the sniper]

I wish Colin Clark hadn't shared his booze with those women at stage end...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That soft sand part could really cause someone a problem.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great job by Tanak on the last two stages. Found the speed just at the crucial time.

[EstWRC]

man those ladies at the end are really annoying

[dimviii]

"Citroën's tactics were clear, but rather bleak, and they abused the safety system that signals that a pilot, Lappi in this case, is in danger, and they did it to save Ogier's position. It is not right to do this with a sporting goal, they should be penalized in my opinion, "Kris Meeke explained to our microphone.

The opinion of the Toyota driver is in line with that of our compatriot Thierry Neuville: "It was a very good strategy from Citroën.When they saw that Ogier had died, they took advantage of the release of Lappi The time that was allotted to him was correct, I think, it's not part of the game, it's Citroën who put the pressure on the organization, it's clear, we know them well, I've been in the team in the past, they never let anything go by. "

"At first I felt it was good news not to have to drive the last mile, but the lump-sum time I had was not good at all. to be lost slightly less with the puncture I do not think I have been favored so a tactical choice I do not have much to comment on If some think that a team is able to ask his driver to go out .. In fact, the team knew only half that we had a puncture, it's a shame they have the floor so easy because I do not think it serves them, "he tempered Sébastien Ogier.

And Pierre Budar, director of Citroën Racing, concludes: "I do not have to comment on the comments of Meeke or Neuville on the subject, a tactic to neutralize the special and how do you want to do that? data, everyone can have it, you will see that Lappi did not activate the system in question, he did not press the red button.The red flag is a decision of the race management. There is no tactic of Citroën because it is a decision that does not belong to us. "
https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_polemique-sur-le-drapeau-rouge-d-ogier-une-tactique-de-citroen-selon-meeke-et-neuville?id=10165726

[N.O.T]

fuck citroen !!!!

[the sniper]

Top marks to the helicopter crew this afternoon, they did a great job.

[EstWRC]

Tänak after ss15

https://lb.delfi.ee/attachment.php?eid=1047452&id=1051470&aid=1051472&w=900

[dimviii]

Gary Boyd #BBP
‏ @KiwiWRCfan
Virtual #WRC Manufacturer points after SS15
�� Toyota extends lead
�� Citroen move ahead of Hyundai

8⃣3️⃣ @TGR_WRC 58 +15 +10=83
7️⃣8⃣ @CitroenRacing 47 + 25 + 6 = 78
7️⃣7️⃣ @HMSGOfficial 57 +12 + 8 = 77
4️⃣8⃣ @MSportLtd 30 + 18 = 48

[EstWRC]

Ott looked kind of worried and said he needs to go...hmmmm

[EstWRC]

Ogier nearly binned it on super special, lost 8 seconds

[dimviii]

Ott looked kind of worried and said he needs to go...hmmmm

dont you feel asleep?

some drama at this small shell stage,Ogier lost 7,2 sec due to crash at barrier,Meeke lost 45 sec

[EstWRC]

same question to you dimviii :)