[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[Sulland]

N&R thread for 2019

[N.O.T]

can a mod delete this thread ??

its trash.

[Sulland]

Are there some R&R changes in the pipeline from FIA for 2019?

[Sulland]

Could this be true?

New naming system of rally car classes

Formula 1 sets the direction. Who carries the number "1" in the name, is generally recognized as the highest level. In rally sport, however, this is exactly the other way round, where "Rally 1" (R1 for short) is considered an entry-level class. In customer sports, it goes up to R5 vehicles, the top ("World Rally Cars") carries no R designation.
This classification will change in the future, because the FIA ​​is working on a new structure in which all designations are literally turned on their heads.
In the future, the entry-level vehicles will be referred to as "Rallye 5". Here, the World Association of cheapest cars, which can be equipped with a simple manual transmission, to a standard sequential gearbox (eg Opel Adam Cup), but must be provided in any case with a homologated by the manufacturer safety package ,
One level above the previous R2 cars are classified as "Rally 4". Again, there will be a new technical regulations shortly. The previous R3 vehicles have apparently had their day, because under the name "Rallye 3", the FIA ​​plans cheap four-wheel-drive vehicles, which, as in the "Rallye 1" group, have standard parts and could resemble the original Group-N.
As a result of the changeover, the currently most successful customer sports vehicles will no longer have the suffix "R5" but will be listed as "Rally 2" (R2). It is quite possible that the new Volkswagen Polo, which is due to celebrate its premiere in the autumn, will soon be renamed "R5" to "R2".
In the rally sport, the top class will in the future carry the "1", here you will find the modern World Rally Cars again, the fastest rally cars in history.

Original news article: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/07/31/fia-plant-neues-rallye-system/

[Simmi]

Good to see the FIA addressing the real problem with this sport.

[Sulland]

Good to see the FIA addressing the real problem with this sport.

He he, not that important as such, but makes it more logical across autosport, for non petrolheads to understand what the topdog class is.

But that Fia acknowledges a miss with R4, and will make a less expensive new R3 class with 4wd, is for many more youngsters more important.

[Mirek]

Yes, the totally most logical thing for a common guy is to understand why Fabia R5 runs in R2 class and Peugeot 208 R2 in R4 class...

It's nearly as logical as how the Bombardier CS100 became the Airbus A220 :D

[N.O.T]

we are 4 months away...

stop being trash...

why have 2 threads ?

[Sulland]

I guess all R5 cars quickly will be renamed R2, also older models, and the same for all carclasses exept R3, that will change to 4wd anyway.

I dont think this will be a problem for very long.

But to have a championship and a carclass called the same is at best strange.......

[Essaj]

I have to agree with N.O.T here, this thread is useless for 4 months.

[tommeke_B]

I guess all R5 cars quickly will be renamed R2, also older models, and the same for all carclasses exept R3, that will change to 4wd anyway.

I dont think this will be a problem for very long.

But to have a championship and a carclass called the same is at best strange.......

No. R3 becomes R4, R4 becomes R3... :D

[Mirek]

I guess all R5 cars quickly will be renamed R2, also older models, and the same for all carclasses exept R3, that will change to 4wd anyway.

I dont think this will be a problem for very long.

But to have a championship and a carclass called the same is at best strange.......

Sorry but absolutely not. How are You going to explain that all the marketing job promoting R5 was in fact promoting hidden R2? How are You going to explain that the websites dedicated to the R5 cars were in fact dedicated to R2? How are You going to explain that all the catalogs, manuals, tools, spare parts with R5 written on them are actually all about R2 stuff? How are You going to explain the nonsensial change in event results from year to year in let's say twenty years?

Does it make sense to You? Seriously this is more than retarded proposal.

[the sniper]

If nothing else, sticking with the 'R[Number]' nomenclature while completely reordering the system does seem like a ridiculous recipe for confusion on every level. At the very least, they'd need a new nomenclature.

[Watson]

I have to agree with N.O.T here, this thread is useless for 4 months.

It will drop to the bottom of the first page for the time being. Big deal. Jesus.

[ToughMac]

This thread seems apt, but only for April 1st 2019!!

[tommeke_B]

I would open a new thread to vote wether this one is useful or not.

[Sulland]

Sorry but absolutely not. How are You going to explain that all the marketing job promoting R5 was in fact promoting hidden R2? How are You going to explain that the websites dedicated to the R5 cars were in fact dedicated to R2? How are You going to explain that all the catalogs, manuals, tools, spare parts with R5 written on them are actually all about R2 stuff? How are You going to explain the nonsensial change in event results from year to year in let's say twenty years?

Does it make sense to You? Seriously this is more than retarded proposal.

Marketing: all people you are marketing towards will know within a short period of and understand that it things will have to change.
Websites: this is easy to change. Most of this is manufacturers, and have people dedicated for IT.
Documents: find R5, replace with R2.
Historical results: put in a sentence on change of name by a date.
In a few months this will be fixed, and the relatively few people this concerns, will all understand and be onboard.

Mirek, you think this is stupid, and try to find arguments to fight it off. I do the opposite.

I understand FIA on this issue, admitting that the R Class naming convetion is not logical compared to other competitions, and want to fix the error.

This is meant for non petrolhead people, to easier understand what kind of level a car is in the hierarchy. Also for drivers chasing sponsors that are not very familiar with rally classes.
That a R5 car is driving in RC2 or WRC2 is the next quickest cartype is not logical to average joe.
Using your logic you have to agree with this?

This is not a big issue, but I understand why the rally comission want rally to come in line with formula racings class logic. :D

[ESTR]

This is meant for non petrolhead people, to easier understand what kind of level a car is in the hierarchy. Also for drivers chasing sponsors that are not very familiar with rally classes.

That kind of people really don't know about anything about rallying. And why he need to know the hierarchy of rally car classes if they barely know the sport. As I said they don't care and will not care even if they change these numbers after R.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So logically they would have to call WRC cars, R1 cars...

That sounds awful.

[denkimi]

But that Fia acknowledges a miss with R4, and will make a less expensive new R3 class with 4wd, is for many more youngsters more important.
In the end it will turn out to be just as expensive as every previous try and unaffordable for young drivers.

[Rallyper]

One only have to get used to the new. It takes a while. Then it´s nothing.

Like changing your officeroom to second floor ... from first or the other way around.

[Rally Power]

But that Fia acknowledges a miss with R4, and will make a less expensive new R3 class with 4wd, is for many more youngsters more important.

The article seems a bit vague on that. It’s known the FIA was working on the renovation of current R1, R2 and R3, but it’s hard to believe they’ll bin the new R4 after taking so long to sort it out.

If this renaming is going to happen I see it more like this:
R1: current WRC; R2: current R5; R3: current R4 (Kit Oreca); R4: mix of current R2 and R3; R5: sort of current R1+ or R2-.

Hopefully, they’ll also give a number to RGT and end having 6 classes rather than 5.

[Mirek]

That's is all just a waste of energy which shall be spent on solving real problems. They can start with having a look on the aging 2WD car fleet and think why they have not introduced proper R2T rules already few years a go. The most popular rally class is using old and largely outdated cars and engines. That's the real problem and not how those cars are named.

[Mirek]

Word is that one R2 is finally about to come early next year. Nothing in R3 AFAIK.

[AndyRAC]

Follow the Sportscar example; LMP1, LMP2, etc so you could have WRC1, WRC2, WRC-GT,

And I'd agree with Mirek about the outdated cars & engines......Small 1.0 Litre turbocharged engines are getting more popular; why not a category/ class for them?

Additionally, I'd like to see a proper 2WD class, but I'll keep dreaming...

[Mirek]

I think that there is a lot of stock cars with their potential for use in rallying completely ignored (and which are moreover produced by traditional rally-affiliated manufacturers). I mean mainly a whole army of hothatches which only need rules to make them eligible. Is writting a rulebook for them really harder than to convince manufacturers to build special cars like Adam R2 which has very little common with the stock product? Isn't it easier to take a stock hot hatch and with a rather small effort make it a sort of gr.N rallycar?

Of course I do rememeber the fail of Renault with Megane RS but that was only because the car was put in the same class as the 4WD cars. Wouldn't it be better if it was racing against Golf GTI or Civic Type-R?

Some of You may say that I'm going against my own arguments from the past when I was refering about a potential new gr.A as about a nonsense. I still do. The key is that here I don't mean a top class in the sport. In the lower classes there shall be a natural will to use everything what is freely available on the market.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Japanese website gives potential order of 2019 Calendar as follows.
MC SWE MEX CHI ARG POR ITA FIN TUR GER AUS ESP JAP WAL
link to article https://www.as-web.jp/rally/397349?all
I would view it as just rumor until we see something official

[Rallyper]

I think that there is a lot of stock cars with their potential for use in rallying completely ignored (and which are moreover produced by traditional rally-affiliated manufacturers). I mean mainly a whole army of hothatches which only need rules to make them eligible. Is writting a rulebook for them really harder than to convince manufacturers to build special cars like Adam R2 which has very little common with the stock product? Isn't it easier to take a stock hot hatch and with a rather small effort make it a sort of gr.N rallycar?

Of course I do rememeber the fail of Renault with Megane RS but that was only because the car was put in the same class as the 4WD cars. Wouldn't it be better if it was racing against Golf GTI or Civic Type-R?

Some of You may say that I'm going against my own arguments from the past when I was refering about a potential new gr.A as about a nonsense. I still do. The key is that here I don't mean a top class in the sport. In the lower classes there shall be a natural will to use everything what is freely available on the market.

Why doesn´t Adam fit in your arguments for stock cars? You more look at Adam as made special for rallying? Then you know maybe inside info from Opel company board?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pity we cant have 4WD Audi S1 vs Focus RS vs Golf R instead of ancient Evos...

[GravelBen]

Pity we cant have 4WD Audi S1 vs Focus RS vs Golf R instead of ancient Evos...

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/823/40791416165_de558b79c4_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/259AESH)DSC_4709 (https://flic.kr/p/259AESH) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/gravelben/), on Flickr

AP4 has one out of three at least!

:D

all three if Polo and Fiesta will do instead of Golf and Focus. Plus Mazda, Toyota, Holden, Hyundai etc... not production cars though.

[Mirek]

Why doesn´t Adam fit in your arguments for stock cars? You more look at Adam as made special for rallying? Then you know maybe inside info from Opel company board?

Adam R2 has very very little common with the stock Adam. Not much more than the bodyshell. You can't even buy Adam with 1.6 engine. Nothing like that ever existed.

[Rallyper]

Adam R2 has very very little common with the stock Adam. Not much more than the bodyshell. You can't even buy Adam with 1.6 engine. Nothing like that ever existed.

So what about the Adam Cup car?

[Mirek]

So what about the Adam Cup car?

Well... yes, again an engine which You can't buy in stock car but it's fully stock engine on the other hand. Honestly the Cup car is a perfect entry car but without the work done for R2 it would likely not exist. So why not to use the same formula for stock cars which already have suitable engine?

[AndyRAC]

I think that there is a lot of stock cars with their potential for use in rallying completely ignored (and which are moreover produced by traditional rally-affiliated manufacturers). I mean mainly a whole army of hothatches which only need rules to make them eligible. Is writting a rulebook for them really harder than to convince manufacturers to build special cars like Adam R2 which has very little common with the stock product? Isn't it easier to take a stock hot hatch and with a rather small effort make it a sort of gr.N rallycar?

Of course I do rememeber the fail of Renault with Megane RS but that was only because the car was put in the same class as the 4WD cars. Wouldn't it be better if it was racing against Golf GTI or Civic Type-R?

Some of You may say that I'm going against my own arguments from the past when I was reffering about a potential new gr.A as about a nonsense. I still do. The key is that here I don't mean a top class in the sport. In the lower classes there shall be a natural will to use everything what is freely available on the market.

I like the way you're thinking; possibly a 'Hot Hatch' class?? Mainly FWD cars - Megane RS, Golf GTi, i30N, Focus ST, etc And instead of trying to beat each other with fastest lap times on the Nurburgring - we get a proper competition on the stages.

So you'd have WRC1, WRC2, WRC-HH/FWD for example....

[Mirek]

I don't think that this could be that interesting for WRC events. More for national or regional events (and mostly only for asphalt countries) because these cars exist on the market and are affordable. IMO there is also no need for new classes. They can be accommodated in R3 class which is dead anyway.

[Rallyper]

I agree. But the example of non stock car as for Adam was not bthe best.

For regional event a cup from any manufacturer would boost. For example the Suzuki Swift. However gearbox should always be at least dogboxquality.

[Mirek]

I agree. But the example of non stock car as for Adam was not bthe best.

Adam Cup is non-FIA car so it's rather irrelevant in regard to discussion about FIA rules. It was created as a side-project along the R2 which is an FIA car, which is good but an expensive car and which has near nothing common with the stock car and which is using an outdated engine (in terms of current Opel's portfolio and marketing trends). The point was a question why did Opel need to build a special car even for lower classes when it had Corsa OPC or Astra OPC on sale?

[Rally Power]

Short sighted but typical FIA. Meddle around the edges but do nothing about the core.

Spot on. Gr.R cars are all developed by the manus or their official tuners. We know there’s usually a limited number of manus involved in rally and most of them are mainly interested on overall wins. That’s why we have almost the same number of WRC and R5 models homologated than all R1, R2 and R3 cars combined. Besides, manus built rally cars are always expensive, which makes even harder for privateers to get in.

The only way to open the sport to a wider range of brands and models is to have private tuners back, through a more liberal regulation for national and international use, just like it was done with AP4 in the FIA Asia Pacific series or Maxi Rally on FIA Codasur.

Probably that was R4 global aim, but having a single supplier for the class was a terrible idea. The FIA can still make R4 work if they end Oreca’s monopoly and allow each nation major tuners to locally build similar cars under a common R4 regulation; the same could be easily done for a new 2WD class and both would be complementary to current R5 and WRC top categories.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Japanese website gives potential order of 2019 Calendar as follows.
MC SWE MEX CHI ARG POR ITA FIN TUR GER AUS ESP JAP WAL
link to article https://www.as-web.jp/rally/397349?all
I would view it as just rumor until we see something official

Thanks for the link to this interesting article. Even if it is speculation, I believe it is close to reality and likely based on conversations with the Rally Japan promoter. Last week, I was told unofficially that 2019 Rally Japan is on. Now, it looks like its date has been decided, too (start of November written in body of calendar, but end of November written in 'draft' calendar at the end of the article?). The suggested calendar also slots Chile in at end of April and the article says that there is a strong possibility that not only Corsica, but also Turkey and Germany will be dropped for 2019!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If that 2019 info is correct Rally GB is to return to its traditional end of Season late-November spot.

This was usually the harder challenge for driver's with the wet cold weather and short daylight.

[denkimi]

Spot on. Gr.R cars are all developed by the manus or their official tuners. We know there’s usually a limited number of manus involved in rally and most of them are mainly interested on overall wins. That’s why we have almost the same number of WRC and R5 models homologated than all R1, R2 and R3 cars combined. Besides, manus built rally cars are always expensive, which makes even harder for privateers to get in.

The only way to open the sport to a wider range of brands and models is to have private tuners back, through a more liberal regulation for national and international use, just like it was done with AP4 in the FIA Asia Pacific series or Maxi Rally on FIA Codasur.

Probably that was R4 global aim, but having a single supplier for the class was a terrible idea. The FIA can still make R4 work if they end Oreca’s monopoly and allow each nation major tuners to locally build similar cars under a common R4 regulation; the same could be easily done for a new 2WD class and both would be complementary to current R5 and WRC top categories.
All they need to do is make an open group n class like it exists in so many countries. Just write a book with things that can change and things that have to remain stock. No need for tuners or official stuff, everyone can use whatever car they want as long as it complies with those rules.

Standard bodywork, either standard gearbox housing or simple basic sequential gearbox, standard suspension mounting points and wishbones, standard fuel tank, standard dashboard, no performance changing parts in the engine bay, no kevlar, titanium or other expensive materials.

Basically what group n was intended to be, but without the need for homologation by the manufacturer.

[EstWRC]

drivers about their future https://rallysportmag.com/wrc-drivers-look-to-2019-as-silly-season-nears-190818/

[mknight]

drivers about their future https://rallysportmag.com/wrc-drivers-look-to-2019-as-silly-season-nears-190818/
Latvala sounds like he is so sure about changes cause he knows he is leaving.

Ogier sounds like ready to go to Citroen. Specially after Finland and now seeing Østberg of all people being able to beat him on open flat stage. I really do hope he is not going to Toyota instead of JML.

[EstWRC]

Agreed about latvala. The only movings he can know about is about his teammates and about himself. So it must be him or lappi moving.

I’m not sure about ogier to Citroen. Gerard Quinn sounded very confident yesterday on alllive that ogier is continuing in M-Sport

[AnttiL]

Agreed about latvala. The only movings he can know about is about his teammates and about himself. So it must be him or lappi moving.

The Absolute Rally podcast says that the Toyota people in Japan like Latvala very much. I believe he gets to say. While there has been now talk about Latvala's confirmed contract for next year, Lappi was quoted saying in one of the articles "I know nothing about my future"

[stefanvv]

If Toyota are going to replace Lappi, then it must be Suninen perhaps. Almost equal in experience and age, after Germany though perhaps Sunine's credit got little higher, he seem capable in asphalt rallies too.

[steve.mandzij]

The Absolute Rally podcast says that the Toyota people in Japan like Latvala very much. I believe he gets to say. While there has been now talk about Latvala's confirmed contract for next year, Lappi was quoted saying in one of the articles "I know nothing about my future"Losing Lappi would be a huge loss to Toyota, no matter who they replace him with l. I love both him and Suninen, and it'd be as great to see Suninen in a rally winning car as it would be to see Lappi in a midfield team, but I'd rate Lappi slightly higher. They're both very similar but I fear Suninen is slightly more critical of himself, and slightly more fragile as a result.

Latvala in 2017 had a team and a car made for him. Nowadays, no matter how close he is to Lappi or Mäkinen, something is clearly not working. I suppose the coziness he had his first year might be starting to wear off, and though it sounds good on paper to stay with the Finnish home team, I do wonder how he'd fare at Citroen, for instance, starting from scratch, as first driver, having a sideways wingman like Ostberg to prop him up. It sounds like a recipe for diaster to have Latvala go to Citroen and their cutthroat goals and expectations, but it's no longer as far fetched as I imagined.

[tr4m]

Lappi was quoted saying in one of the articles "I know nothing about my future"

Lappi also gave an interview to Estonian media, Postimees, before Rally Germany saying he'll be in the start line for sure. And sure seems he'll be staying in Toyota.


What will happen to your future?
I'll definitely be in the start line next season.
But in which team?
You'll know soon enough. I have no reason to leave Toyota - car is able to win, we are constantly developing it. Even the team itself is perfect, so I see no reason why I should leave.


Full translated article (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37343-TOYOTA-GAZOO-Racing-WRT&p=1189451&viewfull=1#post1189451). With that being said, when remembering Ott's responses to Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/132060/tanak-set-to-reject-toyota-and-stay-at-msport), I don't know what to think.

[AnttiL]

Lappi has also said elsewhere that "I have no reason to leave". To me it sounds like he is leaving although he wouldn't want to leave...

EDIT: here https://rallysportmag.com/wrc-drivers-look-to-2019-as-silly-season-nears-190818/



I feel good here at Toyota. If I can continue here, yes, I would like to stay. The car is capable to win, it’s nice feeling inside of the team.

When you get to know everyone, you know how everything works, so why to leave, I don’t see any reason for that.

[EstWRC]

very weird and confusing answers like always from them...we just have to wait for the confirmations or stronger rumours.

[tr4m]

Double negative equals positive, he must be leaving then :D Like I said, Ott too gave out answers like this before his move, so I really don't know what to think.

It's quite interesting situation in Toyota at the moment after the rumor that someone is definitely going to leave. I don't however see a reason for Lappi to leave. Only reason I could think of is if he's offered a multi-year contract in some team where he can fully develop a car around him (like Ogier in VW and now M-Sport, Thierry in Hyundai, Ott in M-Sport and now Toyota..). However, can't he do that in Toyota? I have no technical understanding on the regulations or the costs of developing the car, but would it be impossible to develop the Yaris in two different directions (if it's even needed)? Surely he's not feeling the pressure of being the second car, as he's currently not challenging Ott, and he's the first one to admit he's still learning. Why break concentration of learning with the move to completely unknown...

Latvala, on the other hand, has proven he's capable of great results if he's not under pressure from his teammates, so move to Citroën/M-Sport would make sense. My current conspiracy theory is that Latvala is once again waiting for Ogier's decision, to take the spot he leaves open. If Ogier stays in M-Sport, he'll go to lead Citroën, if Ogier moves to Citroën, he'll take his place in M-Sport (Evans and Suninen are clearly no threat to him, except for Suninen perhaps..).

[AnttiL]

It's quite interesting situation in Toyota at the moment after the rumor that someone is definitely going to leave. I don't however see a reason for Lappi to leave.

Because Toyota needs someone else to step in and the Japanese people like Latvala?

[tr4m]

Because Toyota needs someone else to step in and the Japanese people like Latvala?

Who? Only one I can think of is Ogier (which is another topic all together), as there is no one really available with the potential Lappi has. I don't think that Japanese would compromise their potential manufactures championship possibilities by pushing in their Japanese drivers clearly too early or by inviting in someone capable of challenging for the wins (Meeke). Although, Tänak-Lappi-Meeke would be fun to watch.

[tomhlord]

This is shaping up to be a weird silly season.

For me, there are only three drivers that could win any rally on pure pace alone, excluding other retirements and road position: Tanak, Ogier, Neuville.

They are all the clear number one driver in their respective teams.

Everyone else is in a supporting role, whether they know it or not. Citroen is lost without a clear number one. Ostberg did amazingly in Finland, average in Sweden, Portugal and Italy, rubbish in Germany.

The French team holds the key. If they sign a driver from another team, then the driver market could be full of surprises — with so many drivers out of contract. If they stay as they are, then I could see no major changes to the line-ups at all and a dull winter.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Citroën want Ogier AND Sordo!?

[GigiGalliNo1]

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://revistascratch.com/wrc/noticia/citroen-trabaja-para-tener-a-ogier-y-sordo-para-2019-45747%3Futm_source%3Ddlvr.it%26utm_medium%3Dtwitte r&xid=25657,15700022,15700124,15700126,15700149,1570 0168,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhi4LJcz-ObaU82sGQ82G1vzXnZ8aw

[racerx1979]

As I said before. Sordo will do a full season if offered. I think there is a ghe will go to Citroen regardless of what Seb does. This allows Hyundai to bring in Paddon who has a good relationship with Hyundai NZ.

[racerx1979]

As I said before. Sordo will do a full season if offered. I think there is a good chance he will go to Citroen regardless of what Seb does. This allows Hyundai to bring in Paddon who has a good relationship with Hyundai NZ.

Toyota will keep their current squad unless they get Ogier. Tanak is not scared of Ogier being on the team and is actually completely okay with it besides what many are saying. He apparently has a good relationship with Seb.

If they get Seb, JML might move to Ford or Citroen. Citroen will be JML, Sordo and Breen unless Loeb agrees to a full season or they manage to get Ogier. I honestly think they would boot both Breen and Ostberg for JML, Sordo and one of the Sebs.

We will not hear any Toyota moves until after Turkey.

[AnttiL]

Having Ogier and Sordo, and maybe even Loeb at Citroen...good times :D

[racerx1979]

Having Ogier and Sordo, and maybe even Loeb at Citroen...good times :D

That’s true. It’s a silly season once again. I think if Toyota dominates at Turkey it will change things for drivers. Especially Ogier who is no longer interested in big money and wants more freedom. Location wise Citroen is great for him as long as they have a competitive car. I would hold off until after Spain if I were Ogier. Loeb would be a good guide to see how the Citroen really fairs. Breen and Ostberg unfortunately are not the best way to gauge a cars performance. Maybe Ostberg/Breen will be competing for Podium in Turkey which will bring them up a notch

[EstWRC]

im having a hard time believing Ogier goes to Toyota or rightly said, Toyota wanting Ogier. I mean, just a year ago after many months of negotiations the japanese rejected him and took Tänak instead, and now, one year later they decide they still want Ogier ? And like many have mentioned here in the past, Ogier didnt do any good for himself after he rejected Toyotas offer two years ago.

I will say the same what Tommi said after finland, it is good for the sport that Tänak, Ogier and Neuville are in different teams.

[ESTR]

You all forget it! Contracts will be revealed after Wales like always..

[mknight]

Citroën with Ogier JML and Sordo is like complete reversal of their driver strategy from last 4 years.
It also leaves them without a single developing driver which I dont think is a good idea.
Also not sure if JML wants to be second driver to Ogier (which broke him in VW), will also be similar to being second driver to Tänak.
But I could see one of those 2 + Sordo and Breen.

Btw. note how there are no rumours about people going to Hyundai.
I think Paddons (1,5 year to get the dif he wanted) and Mikkelsens (hopeless on tarmac) experience does put drivers off.

[Indreq]

Its true that Seb and Ott seem to get along so having them in same team might not be such recipe for civil war as it might be with either of them in same team with Thierry. Theoretically having them both in Toyota may even be an option, especially as Seb seems to be very interested in moving there. But this would be really bad for sport, as it would almost certainly bring manufacturer title to Toyota and at least two manufacturers would feel that they have nor reason to pay for participation if they dont have any chance of winning (Ford and Citroen). FIA should veto this move if it becomes reality :D

[wrc2017]

Ogier will not go to Toyota. If he wins, its Ogier that wins, not the car.

Ogier will not want Tanak as a team mate, I think Tanak is now too fast for Ogier, and his feet under the table at Toyota.

If Ogier goes anywhere, its Citroen. But only for the money, for 1 year, and Citroen will sell the furniture to get him...

Over the season I certainly dont think the Citroen is better than the Ford. Ogier knows this. So its will be a gamble. Ogier doesn't gamble.

If Ogier wins Championship... would he leave Ford for Citroen... or would he bow out?

If Ogier loses Championship... does he feel he will have a better chance at Citroen, vrs. Neuville and Tanak?

I'd be worried if im... Evans, Otsberg, Paddon & Mikkelsen... because nobody will be seriously looking hard at them, saying I need them on my team?

There is Meeke. Like it or not... he can win rallys unlike the above. There is also the PR it would generate getting him back in a seat....

Maybe if im Breen, i'd think there a chance of a #2 slot, but he needs to do more. If he pushes, he goes off. His speed could have plateau'd already.

Lappi will fit in somewhere, that there is no doubt.

Latvala, unless he bins it in the last 4 rallys, will most likely stay at Toyota, as compensation from Japanese, for the bad run of luck he has had.

Sunninen will remain, as his funding will secure MSport funding for AN Other driver.

[Rally Power]

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://revistascratch.com/wrc/noticia/citroen-trabaja-para-tener-a-ogier-y-sordo-para-2019-45747%3Futm_source%3Ddlvr.it%26utm_medium%3Dtwitte r&xid=25657,15700022,15700124,15700126,15700149,1570 0168,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhi4LJcz-ObaU82sGQ82G1vzXnZ8aw

That's second hand news. Last week Sordo told to Marca that Citroen asked Hyundai about their plans for him, but he would like to stay at Hyundai (preferring a part time program); he also told, like Budar admitted a long time ago, that Citroen main option is Ogier.

Ironically, Paddon already said he wants to stay at Hyundai; Lappi and Latvala are telling they wish to continue with Toyota; Ogier admitted that he’s mainly focused on getting a winning car (translation: Citroen, no thanks)…with no one apparently interested, who will Citroen get? (please, not Lefebvre!!!).

Btw, my guess on Ogier future: Toyota or Hyundai, depending on which won’t get this year manus title.

[ESTR]

with no one apparently interested, who will Citroen get? (please, not Lefebvre!!!)

I can think of one name that want to drive for Citroen. Räikkönen... hahaha

[mknight]

Ogier admitted that he’s mainly focused on getting a winning car (translation: Citroen, no thanks)….
He said he is mainly focused on performance.
Given Loebs speed in Sweden and Corsica and recently Østberg in Finland (right before that interview) I don't see how that excludes Citroen.
More than anything he had reason to be pissed about lack of Fiesta speed in Finland.

[mknight]

(obviously meant Mexico for Loeb, cant edit)

[wrc2017]

More than anything he had reason to be pissed about lack of Fiesta speed in Finland.

That was his making, with SACHS dampers, but nobody will admit it.

You just cant stick dampers from a VW on a car and assume they will work. (not as simple as that, but you get the idea)

[ESTR]

That just shows that he is nobody without powerful machine. And I think that he want badly Hyundai or Toyota, but I hope he will never get that seats there.

[Tarmop]

Well, he won 2 events in a row wit the Fiesta this season, was really happy and positive about the future, people thought that that was another beginning of his dominant driving, now that he has learnt the car. Hasn`t happened yet...

He is not nobody...he is currently one of three drivers you most definitely need, if you want a chance to get one of the titles.

[Allez Andruet]

That just shows that he is nobody without powerful machine.
Absolutely, he has to be one of the worst drivers ever to drive a World Rally Car. I can't believe he was given a contract for this season. What was Malcolm thinking?

[BigWorm]

So both the Fiesta and Ogier are bad...?

[steve.mandzij]

Absolutely, he has to be one of the worst drivers ever to drive a World Rally Car. I can't believe he was given a contract for this season. What was Malcolm thinking?On the topic of properly bad drivers at M-Sport, I think there's no way in hell Evans stays. Who's going to replace him? Surely not Camilli...

[Tarmop]

Well, actually now that he has had the chance to mature in WRC2, a one-off would be nice to test his capabilities. Has done wonders in the past...

[mknight]

On the topic of properly bad drivers at M-Sport, I think there's no way in hell Evans stays. Who's going to replace him? Surely not Camilli...

He did beat Sordo in Portugal. (which is about the only positive)

Anyway I don't get why people would suddenly want to kick half of wrc drivers. It's not like they are minutes behind, mostly the events are quite close. The drivers that were kicked recently were Lefebvre - who actually was minutes behind most of the time, crashed just about every rally and was sharing the seat in the first place. Haninnen - who similarly was minutes behind on most rallies, crashed and was relatively old. And Meeke who has been on "warning" for crashing by same team 2 times before (2017 and 2014?) and was actually kicked once by Mini/Prodrive.


Also whom would you replace 3-4 drivers with? Realistically I see only Tidemand as a clear candidate. Maybe Camilli, but not so sure. Huttunen or Rovanpera are not ready for full season yet.

[krissucool]

Pardon my ignorance, was just wondering why more people are not talking about Tidemand as an option. Would think he surely deserves a chance by now?

[steve.mandzij]

He did beat Sordo in Portugal. (which is about the only positive)

Anyway I don't get why people would suddenly want to kick half of wrc drivers. It's not like they are minutes behind, mostly the events are quite close. The drivers that were kicked recently were Lefebvre - who actually was minutes behind most of the time, crashed just about every rally and was sharing the seat in the first place. Haninnen - who similarly was minutes behind on most rallies, crashed and was relatively old. And Meeke who has been on "warning" for crashing by same team 2 times before (2017 and 2014?) and was actually kicked once by Mini/Prodrive.


Also whom would you replace 3-4 drivers with? Realistically I see only Tidemand as a clear candidate. Maybe Camilli, but not so sure. Huttunen or Rovanpera are not ready for full season yet.Camilli was worse than Lefebvre, especially before his Germany accident (after which I'm adamant Lefebvre lost his speed). No pace, consistency, or improvement in 2016. He's been way better in WRC2 than I expected, but with only two events so far his career seems stagnant.

[AnttiL]

Haninnen - who similarly was minutes behind on most rallies, crashed and was relatively old.

Hänninen's career was filled with gaps. In 2017 Monte Carlo he hadn't done a WRC rally since Finland 2015, which was his only rally in 2015. The beginning of the season seemed difficult for him, but he was finding his pace towards the end of the season, with good results in Finland, Deutschland and Catalunya.


Also whom would you replace 3-4 drivers with? Realistically I see only Tidemand as a clear candidate. Maybe Camilli, but not so sure. Huttunen or Rovanpera are not ready for full season yet.

I wouldn't replace 3-4 drivers, but Tidemand should earn a chance. Camilli has been too much out of rallying this year, Rovanperä and Huttunen should still do a year or two in WRC2. Maybe Kopecky could be the tarmac expert Hyundai needs to support the struggling Paddon and Mikkelsen and crashing Sordo?

[BigWorm]

I wouldn't write off Camilli in the future yet, his rise through the ranks is remarkable and has earned the admiration of Malcolm, which is not a bad thing to have.

[tomhlord]

but with only two events so far his career seems stagnant.

Camilli has been testing with Volkswagen in the middle of this year, a nice manufacturer testing role. Quite surprising to see him in an M-Sport car again after that.


On the topic of properly bad drivers at M-Sport, I think there's no way in hell Evans stays.

He's a clear number two that backs up Ogier when needed with no arguements. He's not been quick this year, but has played the political game which could help him keep a seat.

[Rally Power]

He said he is mainly focused on performance.
Given Loebs speed in Sweden and Corsica and recently Østberg in Finland (right before that interview) I don't see how that excludes Citroen.

Actually he said he's focused on performance in order to win often and get titles; for that he obviously needs a winning car.

Btw, I’ve been defending Citroen for a long time but I’m starting to lose my faith on them, making hard to imagine that Ogier would choose the weakest car and the most troubled team to end his career.

It may sound lunatic but I still believe there’s some anti-Ogier mood inside Citroen, perhaps to defend Loeb’s legacy and active presence at PSA; otherwise it’s beyond comprehension how they managed to fail hiring him after VW pull out or even last year.

Ogier is a driving force able to boost any team he joins and Citroen desperately needed his guidance in both occasions, just as they need it now. Will they succeed this time? I seriously doubt, but frankly I hope to be wrong.

[tomhlord]

Actually he said he's focused on performance in order to win often and get titles; for that he obviously needs a winning car.

Btw, I’ve been defending Citroen for a long time but I’m starting to lose my faith on them, making hard to imagine that Ogier would choose the weakest car and the most troubled team to end his career.

It may sound lunatic but I still believe there’s some anti-Ogier mood inside Citroen, perhaps to defend Loeb’s legacy and active presence at PSA; otherwise it’s behind comprehension how they managed to fail hiring him after VW pull out or even last year.

Ogier is a driving force able to boost any team he joins and Citroen desperately needed his guidance in both occasions, just as they need it now. Will they succeed this time? I seriously doubt, but frankly I hope to be wrong.

For me, it hangs on the level of support he will get from teammates (clear number one driver), a commitment from Tavares that there is a significant development budget in place, the maximum level of testing allowed in appropriate locations and perhaps who is emplyed in the engineering team. I don't believe it's a question of wage for Ogier, if Citroen can provide those four things he can move and gain satisfaction from turning a team around.

[denkimi]

It may sound lunatic but I still believe there’s some anti-Ogier mood inside Citroen, perhaps to defend Loeb’s legacy and active presence at PSA; otherwise it’s behind comprehension how they managed to fail hiring him after VW pull out or even last year.
I believe there is at least just as much anti Citroën sentiment in ogier. And who can blame him? If i where him i wouldn't go back, i would let them lay in their misery. They did it to themself.

[spiderem]

this is a bit off topic, but why did kopecki never really made it to the WRC level? I remember him doing wrc with the fabia back in 2007 / 2008 (?) and then nothing and now he is back and winning quite a lot in wrc2 over the last few years... bit of strange career path.

[mknight]

Well he was driving wrc with Skoda in 2005-2007. Won some stages in Germany as well even though final result wasnt very good. On gravel he was always slower than his teammates though (Paasonen etc.). So when Skoda left WRC his performance wasnt anything that would make other teams pick him and he didnt have money to pay for the drive. So he stuck with Skoda for IRC and then R5 slowly going better on gravel. He is now decent on it, but decent means somewhere around 8-9 place in WRC given competitive car. On tarmac he could be around 4-5th depending on the rally. Was loosing quite a lot against Mikkelsen in same car last year on Monte and Corsica though (even without puncture), but was faster than Suninen.

[Tarmop]

Škoda WRC-s were rubbish, then came the period of paying drivers and two manuf. For sure there were other reasons also, but quite hard to get a competitive seat that time...

[Mirek]

Well he was driving wrc with Skoda in 2005-2007. Won some stages in Germany as well even though final result wasnt very good. On gravel he was always slower than his teammates though (Paasonen etc.). So when Skoda left WRC his performance wasnt anything that would make other teams pick him and he didnt have money to pay for the drive. So he stuck with Skoda for IRC and then R5 slowly going better on gravel. He is now decent on it, but decent means somewhere around 8-9 place in WRC given competitive car. On tarmac he could be around 4-5th depending on the rally.

I'd like to correct You a little bit. He drove only one single gravel event for Škoda Motorsport when he was 21 years old (Wales 2003). It wasn't fast but that could be hardly expected with his experience. 2005 was the last season before the Škoda Motorsport department was dissolved and in these years he drove only few selected asphalt events.

In 2006-2007 he drove privately run WRC car with no teammate. The team was run by his father and it actually somehow exists till today. They keep preparing Jan's car for Czech national events. Take into account that the development of the car was very limited despite Škoda actually granting homologation to number of improvements developed by the team. The main problem was pretty weak obsolete 20V engine of the Fabia WRC especially in terms of torque where it was lacking around 100-200 Nm against the competitors. He did only selected events and scored some good results considering he was a privateer (5th in Germany and Catalunya, 7th in Acropolis and Corsica, 8th in Finland, Monte Carlo and Norway).

In 2008 Škoda Motorsport was reborn and the development of the Fabia S2000 was ongoing. Jan was doing a lot of the job including collecting experience with other S2000 (207, Punto). He also drove the S2000 prototype on number of events. In 2009 Škoda entered IRC on Monte Carlo. IRC was very popular in that time and the competition was made largely of today's WRC drivers. If I'm not mistaken Jan finished 3x 2nd in the all season standings (behind Hänninen and Mikkelsen). He also drove in Italian championship for Škoda Italia. After that he was sent to win ERC which he did and to win APRC which he also did (fun fact - Lappi didn't manage that). And further You know it. He is taking mandatory Czech titles and drive what he is given in WRC2. He was very close to a WRC deal two years back but everything collapsed when VW stopped and its drivers got in the game. Now it's too late I would say. He won 4 major gravel events - 2x Sardinia in WRC2, Acores and Sibiu in IRC/ERC.

[AnttiL]

Like I said elsewhere, Hyundai should hire him as a tarmac specialist, since they seem to lack good tarmac drivers.

[mknight]

Yeah I forgot that he drove as privateer in 2006-2007. Was tough time to get in. IRC was indeed better competition than wrc at least for a few years before others(Peugeot) fell off and Skoda started to dominate.

[Mirek]

Like I said elsewhere, Hyundai should hire him as a tarmac specialist, since they seem to lack good tarmac drivers.

Sordo and Neuville are not good tarmac drivers?

[mousti]

Lol then nobody is

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[mknight]

Like I said elsewhere, Hyundai should hire him as a tarmac specialist, since they seem to lack good tarmac drivers.

Could almost think you are trolling?

Neuville won his first WRC rally on tarmac and won Corsica last year.
Sordo won his only rally on tarmac and used to be the defition of tarmac specialist since Panizzi retired.
Mikkelsen also won his first WRC rally on tarmac (well ontarmac+gravel in Spain). As mentioned he also drove same car with Kopecky on Monte and Corsica and was clearly faster.

When a trio of tarmac drivers like this finished as last 3 wrcs on 2stages in Germany behind Suninen in his first tarmac rally and behind Østberg who didnt drive on tarmac in 2 years and was never good on it, it certainly stays more about the car than the drivers.

[spiderem]

I'd like to correct You a little bit. He drove only one single gravel event for Škoda Motorsport when he was 21 years old (Wales 2003). It wasn't fast but that could be hardly expected with his experience. 2005 was the last season before the Škoda Motorsport department was dissolved and in these years he drove only few selected asphalt events.

In 2006-2007 he drove privately run WRC car with no teammate. The team was run by his father and it actually somehow exists till today. They keep preparing Jan's car for Czech national events. Take into account that the development of the car was very limited despite Škoda actually granting homologation to number of improvements developed by the team. The main problem was pretty weak obsolete 20V engine of the Fabia WRC especially in terms of torque where it was lacking around 100-200 Nm against the competitors. He did only selected events and scored some good results considering he was a privateer (5th in Germany and Catalunya, 7th in Acropolis and Corsica, 8th in Finland, Monte Carlo and Norway).

In 2008 Škoda Motorsport was reborn and the development of the Fabia S2000 was ongoing. Jan was doing a lot of the job including collecting experience with other S2000 (207, Punto). He also drove the S2000 prototype on number of events. In 2009 Škoda entered IRC on Monte Carlo. IRC was very popular in that time and the competition was made largely of today's WRC drivers. If I'm not mistaken Jan finished 3x 2nd in the all season standings (behind Hänninen and Mikkelsen). He also drove in Italian championship for Škoda Italia. After that he was sent to win ERC which he did and to win APRC which he also did (fun fact - Lappi didn't manage that). And further You know it. He is taking mandatory Czech titles and drive what he is given in WRC2. He was very close to a WRC deal two years back but everything collapsed when VW stopped and its drivers got in the game. Now it's too late I would say. He won 4 major gravel events - 2x Sardinia in WRC2, Acores and Sibiu in IRC/ERC.

Thanks, much appreciated sharing your knowledge. Maybe the skoda was not the fastest but i quite liked the look of it when i saw him at Monte Carlo 2007 (I think or 2006)

[AnttiL]

Sorry, should have explained my idea better. Of course I didn't mean that Neuville would be a bad tarmac driver, or Sordo...but Sordo seems to have trouble finishing tarmac rallies as of late. Crashed in Deutschland 2017 and 2018, Catalunya 2017 and Monte 2018. They won't win manufacturers championship if Neuville's the only one who scores tarmac points.

So maybe they need to have Neuville, Sordo-Paddon and Kopecky-Mikkelsen :D

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/1032149592224063489


Oliver Ciesla confirms by video link agreement made with Rally Japan to return to #WRC "from 2019 for probably 4 years"
Ciesla expects this to be ratified by FIA's World Motorsport Council's next meeting.
(Not stated but would need to be subject to successful candidate event)

[GravelBen]

They won't win manufacturers championship if Neuville's the only one who scores tarmac points.

So maybe they need to have Neuville, Sordo-Paddon and Kopecky-Mikkelsen :D

Funny enough despite his 'useless on tarmac' reputation Paddon was actually bringing in fairly consistent points on tarmac in 2016/17 - obviously not challenging for podiums and wins like he has on gravel, but often 5th or 6th which is still useful points.

[jbmarcus21]

Strong and reliable project built in Japan. This morning last official press conference suggested three dates for WRC JAPAN 2019 to promoter : full details ► http://bit.ly/2wehuPm

[AnttiL]

Funny enough despite his 'useless on tarmac' reputation Paddon was actually bringing in fairly consistent points on tarmac in 2016/17 - obviously not challenging for podiums and wins like he has on gravel, but often 5th or 6th which is still useful points.

You mean...like Mikkelsen this year?

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005799338.html

According to Finnish media Ilta-Sanomat Citroen is trying to sign Lappi for next year. In the article Erik T. Veiby confirms that Citroen is interested in Lappi, saying: "Citroen has told us that Esapekka is one of the drivers the team would like to have next year". Veiby also says that they have started negotiations with Toyota as well regarding next season.

[tomhlord]

Smells like Citroen are trying to sign every free agent, without much success so far. (early days)

[BigWorm]

Strong and reliable project built in Japan. This morning last official press conference suggested three dates for WRC JAPAN 2019 to promoter : full details ► http://bit.ly/2wehuPm

And Autosport's take on the matter: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138171/rally-japan-gets-goahead-from-wrc

[Rally Hokkaido]

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/1032149592224063489

Interesting point for me is that they are now saying three possible dates for Rally Japan. Back on the 7th, the 'leaked' calendar had it as first week of November. As the overriding factor in drafting a WRC Calendar is shipping logistics, I can only conclude that the three dates indicate there are at least two draft calendars on the table, one with the Chile (or German) round and one without it.
Though not a WRC problem, holding Rally Japan in September would create a huge headache for APRC as Rally Hokkaido couldn't be run in November or, say, July for seasonal reasons (snow & agriculture, respectively). Even holding two international rallies within 6 weeks of each other will create sizable problems for local officials and teams.

[Rally Power]

Apparently Abu Dhabi may leave Citroen if the team fails to guarantee wining chances for next year; it’s in the free section of L’Equipe site. Anyone read the full article? https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Article/Wrc-citroen-vise-encore-sebastien-ogier/932379

[AnttiL]

Would they move to back up, say, M-Sport, or leave the sport altogether?

[BigWorm]

Would they move to back up, say, M-Sport, or leave the sport altogether?

With their financial backing I think the other teams would be all over them for a deal, if, as you say, they're interested in staying in the sport.

[dnb]

With their financial backing I think the other teams would be all over them for a deal, if, as you say, they're interested in staying in the sport.

I don't think Toyota would be though

[racerx1979]

Well Al Attiyah was supposed to have talks about running a full 2019 program with a Toyota Yaris which was backed by Qatar and Red Bull. Not sure if this is still in the works... so we could have a few different scenarios if Abu Dhabi pulls out.

As Anttil said they may head back to M-Sport since they have already worked with their group. I'm sure Malcom would take them in with open arms.

As far as Citroen goes, they are in deep turds unless they make a serious change. People like Mads and Breen should know they could easily be booted if Citroen was to get someone like Lappi, Loeb or Latvala.

[spiderem]

maybe a silly season in terms of driver and main sponsors ;)

[mknight]

Apparently Abu Dhabi may leave Citroen if the team fails to guarantee wining chances for next year; it’s in the free section of L’Equipe site. Anyone read the full article? https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Article/Wrc-citroen-vise-encore-sebastien-ogier/932379

I read this this as "winning chances" = winning driver ~ Ogier, Neuville or maybe Latvala.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.rallit.fi/esapekka-lappi-vastaa-citroen-huhuihin-ei-ainakaan-tarvitse-olla-tyoton/

Lappi responds to Citroen rumors.

The most important quotes:

I won't be unemployed next year, even if it turns out that I'm not getting a contract from Toyota.

We have pretty good situation at Toyota. It's a winning car and it's easy to be in a Finnish team. I don't have any huge interest to leave Toyota, but at the moment I don't have a contract for next season. Let's wait.

By the end of next month I should know (about next year). That leaves enough time to prepare for next year and possible changes - if such are to happen.

[EstWRC]

cmon Lappi, dont be stupid

[dimviii]

maybe trying to maximize his salary

[AnttiL]

Or maybe Toyota just keeping one seat free, just in case...

[ESTR]

Well if Toyota don't give him contract at the table already then they are pretty much stupid. I bet it's Latvala who kiss their asses all the time... And if they will not be interested in him then he don't have other choices.

[Mirek]

I'm not sure whether it's better to be No.3 driver in a better team than possibly No.1 driver in a worse one, tough choice.

[AnttiL]

Well if Toyota don't give him contract at the table already then they are pretty much stupid. I bet it's Latvala who kiss their asses all the time... And if they will not be interested in him then he don't have other choices.

The Japanese people at Toyota supposedly like Latvala. Jouhki is also probably a stronger manager than Veiby.

[mknight]

I'm not sure whether it's better to be No.3 driver in a better team than possibly No.1 driver in a worse one, tough choice.

Indeed.

Lappi is the most promising of the "new" drivers (including Paddon). Latvala hard to say, last year I though he was back but this year he made lots of mistakes even when he didn't have technical issues and was typically the slowest Toyota.

It is likely that Lappi's current contract wasn't very good (he was unproven), so he has all the reasons to try to get a better deal.

[dnb]

"Autosport understands the Tour of Corisca was the prime candidate, but speculation has now suggested the French island event could remain next season, possibly at the expense of Rally Germany."

What was wrong with Germany?

[AnttiL]

cmon Lappi, dont be stupid

It may not be his decision...

I mean, there are two horrible scenarios that would require him stepping out
1. Toyota wants Ogier
2. Toyota wants a Japanese driver

[pantealex]

Well Mikkelsen was No.3 driver in VW with very good results...

But I agree. it´s tough choice.

[pantealex]

It may not be his decision...

I mean, there are two horrible scenarios that would require him stepping out
1. Toyota wants Ogier
2. Toyota wants a Japanese driver

1.This is problem for EP/JML
2.They can use MarkkoMärtinMotorsport as satellite team with older YarisWRC chassis.

[Mirek]

"Autosport understands the Tour of Corisca was the prime candidate, but speculation has now suggested the French island event could remain next season, possibly at the expense of Rally Germany."

What was wrong with Germany?

VW left.

[Toyoda]

Paddon to Toyota, that would be so great, Ott and Hayden in the same team just like in Pirelli star driver years. Car would suit him, same driving style and a good market for 4wds in NZ for Toyota, only catch is the Hyundai NZ thing...

[pantealex]

Paddon to Toyota, that would be so great, Ott and Hayden in the same team just like in Pirelli star driver years. Car would suit him, same driving style and a good market for 4wds in NZ for Toyota, only catch is the Hyundai NZ thing...

- he is slower than current TGR drivers -

[wrc2017]

- he is slower than current TGR drivers -

I don't think Paddon has much bargaining power to be honest, other than whatever importer money he brings.

[tr4m]

I'm sure Mäkinen will do everything he can to keep Lappi, even over Latvala, but it will also depend on the higher-ups decisions. Toyoda seems like the kind of guy who respects the sport, I'm just hopeful that he respects the sport enough to not let Ogier into the team.

[KiwiWRCfan]

I don't think Paddon has much bargaining power to be honest, other than whatever importer money he brings.

maybe have a look at average points per P1 start then reconsider bargaining power
https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/1031141680680853504

[jbmarcus21]

After promoter agreement yesterday with Rally Japan, Deutschland Rallye & Tour de Corse in danger for the future... Difficult choice between two beautiful rally... But what is choice ? POOL available here ► http://bit.ly/2PyxFQo

[EstWRC]

no its not difficult choice, Corsica sucks big time

[Tauri_J]

I think both are unique and deserve a place in the calendar.

Drivers probably prefer Corsica.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Next one is last contract for Ogier:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138189/ogier-my-next-wrc-contract-will-be-my-last

[AnttiL]

Next one is last contract for Ogier:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138189/ogier-my-next-wrc-contract-will-be-my-last

He said this already before Deutschland ;)

[mknight]

Next one is last contract for Ogier:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138189/ogier-my-next-wrc-contract-will-be-my-last

Well good that Toyota is not mentioned...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont see that Citroen can offer him a better chance to fight for the title compared to M-Sport.

They struggle for finance and their C3 is not as proven as the Fiesta.

The extra PR work wont suit him either.

[EstWRC]

I think both are unique and deserve a place in the calendar.

Drivers probably prefer Corsica.

really?

"But there remains significant disquiet about the logistical effort to get to the island and the absence of sufficient reward in terms of promotional value from the rally.

Collectively the teams feel the same way about the WRC's other island rally, French round the Tour of Corsica.

Autosport understands there is similar pressure on the Tour of Corsica for next season, with the French island event equally unpopular among the teams."


https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136737/wrc-team-pushing-for-sardinia-2019-boycott

[Tarmop]

DRIVERS

Yes, they are part of the team, definitely everyone has his favourite and least favourite event, but this is the opinion of manuf. you quoted.

[EstWRC]

yes but you dont see them saying this about rally germany.


but to each their own. case closed.

[Duvel]

When will the 2019calendar be known? Think Germany desirves the spot more than Corse. France allready has Monte

[jonkka]

Corsica also has boring itinerary - two stages in the morning, the same two repeated in the afternoon.

[Rally Power]

I'm sure Mäkinen will do everything he can to keep Lappi, even over Latvala, but it will also depend on the higher-ups decisions. Toyoda seems like the kind of guy who respects the sport, I'm just hopeful that he respects the sport enough to not let Ogier into the team.

Apparently Mr. Toyoda isn’t worried about having a huge advantage over the competition on the WEC; if Toyota misses WRC manus champ this year, why not try to get Ogier?

Besides, even if Ogier seems the obvious (and smarter) choice for a vacant seat at Toyota, how can we tell Lappi won’t be replaced by another talented Finn, like Suninen, that seems ready for a full manu drive and is managed by Makinen’s long time pal Jouhki ?

[ESTR]

Next one is last contract for Ogier:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138189/ogier-my-next-wrc-contract-will-be-my-last

At the end of 2016 he said it that this will be last. Then at the end of 2017 too. Now again. Ogi stop it.No one is buying it.

I think that he just want to get contracts on the table from Toyota or Hyundai and now when no one is interested in him, he is crying again..

[EstWRC]

When will the 2019calendar be known? Think Germany desirves the spot more than Corse. France allready has Monte

end of september usually

[BigWorm]

At the end of 2016 he said it that this will be last. Then at the end of 2017 too. Now again. Ogi stop it.No one is buying it.

I think that he just want to get contracts on the table from Toyota or Hyundai and now when no one is interested in him, he is crying again..

He didn't really

[mknight]

Apparently Mr. Toyoda isn’t worried about having a huge advantage over the competition on the WEC; if Toyota misses WRC manus champ this year, why not try to get Ogier?

Well Toyotas last 10+ years in motorsport weren't exactly great. First tons of money into F1 which was total fail. Then endurance where they never won vs Porsche/Audi even though they often had the fastest car, now after both Audi and Porsche left they finally are winning since there is nobody else to fight.
So now when they are doing good in WRC they are likely to try to make the most out of it.

[Duvel]

Well Toyotas last 10+ years in motorsport weren't exactly great. First tons of money into F1 which was total fail. Then endurance where they never won vs Porsche/Audi even though they often had the fastest car, now after both Audi and Porsche left they finally are winning since there is nobody else to fight.
So now when they are doing good in WRC they are likely to try to make the most out of it.


As someone mentioned here allready, a satelite team could be a solution in case of Toyota.

Toyota works team whit Ogier, Tanak, Lappi
Satelite Latvalla and Nasser

A bit the way Stobart team did it a few years ago.

[Tarmop]

No...the policy would remain the same- priority drivers helped by other team members, no matter if from A or B team. So again struggling Latvala and Nasser just enjoying himself. B-team for developing drivers and Nasser would be logical though.

[AndyRAC]

When will the 2019 calendar be known? Think Germany deserves the spot more than Corse. France already has Monte

We shouldn't be dropping any of the current Tarmac rounds - there are too few as it is. Drop a gravel round that offers nothing except dry dusty conditions.....

[mknight]

We shouldn't be dropping any of the current Tarmac rounds - there are too few as it is. Drop a gravel round that offers nothing except dry dusty conditions.....

Looks like you didn't notice that the new rally Japan will be on tarmac.

[BigWorm]

Looks like you didn't notice that the new rally Japan will be on tarmac.

I think he means that a tarmac round should be introduced, or replace a gravel round, rather than replace an event already on tarmac. Something I agree with, makes the championship a bit more even in terms of surfaces.

[mknight]

Well Andy does not like dusty gravel rallies which are the same. Similarly I don't see much point in more dry tarmac rallies with nothing special.

So if more tarmac then one of these:
- wet tarmac (tarmac in some place where it rains most of the time, remember playing some computer game with tarmac rally in Japan where it always rained ;) )
- bumpy/different tarmac (Corsica used to be this but now the roads are mostly with smooth tarmac just like spain, Barum in Czech Rep. also used to be this but the roads there also changed)

For gravel rallies I am all for replacing one of the similar dry/dusty rallies with gravel that is wet with chances of snow, for example some rally in New Zealand during the winter (summer on north hemisphere) or a rally in one of the baltic countries in the autumn, or moving rally Argentina a bit in the calendar. How realistic that is I dunno.

[dnb]

When will the 2019calendar be known? Think Germany desirves the spot more than Corse. France allready has Monte
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138171/rally-japan-gets-goahead-from-wrc
"A final decision will be made at the World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on October 12."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

At the end of 2016 he said it that this will be last. Then at the end of 2017 too. Now again. Ogi stop it.No one is buying it.

I think that he just want to get contracts on the table from Toyota or Hyundai and now when no one is interested in him, he is crying again..

Ogier said he could retire at those times, he didnt say 'this will be my last contract', which he is saying now.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re Corsica vs Germany - Corsica for me.

The Tour de Corse has a big history and is considered one of the THE legendary rallies. There have been epic battles, great drama and shocking tragedies.

The Rally of 10,000 Corners is the driver's choice. It's main issue is island-based logistics which the teams dont like.

[N.O.T]

Corsica is trash... history means nothing. The route is a disgrace...

only trash people want this event in.

[RAS007]

Corsica is trash... history means nothing. The route is a disgrace...

only trash people want this event in.

We need a dislike button on this forum for trash like this.

[WRCfan]

Japan was the worst rally I have ever attended, narrow crap roads, middle of nowhere so stuff all spectators, and except for one big penned area 100m back from the stage, we couldn't see much. Just because Toyota has come back doesn't mean that Japan should be given a WRC round again after the poorly executed last attempt in Obihiro.

Cull Turkey, and Japan from the championship and put a couple of decent rounds in their place.

[Zeakiwi]

bad news release for RX Academy 2018 participant Troy Dowel - diagnosed with acute Leukemia

"It is with a very heavy heart that we advise that Troy has had to withdraw from Round 4 of the RX Academy in Finland. Troy fell very ill whilst travelling in Ireland last week and was admitted to Hospital on Monday. Over the past four days Troy underwent several tests and very early this morning he was diagnosed with Acute Leukemia. We are trying to get Troy home for treatment but at this stage he is too weak to travel. As we all have seen Troy has developed into an amazing driver and had some incredible battles racing in his passion. Now Troy has a huge battle ahead of him so he can continue to pursue his dream. I am so proud of the amazing kid he is his humbleness and attitude towards his racing has been exceptional. He has grown so much and had some amazing people helping develop him. I would like to thank Neville so much for being there with him along with his Irish family who have all given Troy so much love and support this week. Troy we love you so much."

[Zeakiwi]

Japan is probably going to be ' touge challenge' (Aichi and Gifu prefectures)
Turkey from the observers in 2017 is likely to be ok, 2018 is in an area where the wrx has not been before.

https://youtu.be/d6x5aJM9szQ?t=18m31s (Aichi roads) pretty twisty and narrow but faster in places with plenty of steel armco.

[AnttiL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEqAU37VlHs

Colin Clark's Kitchen Table, talk about 2019 seats and 2018 championship fights and Rally Japan

[tomhlord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEqAU37VlHs

Colin Clark's Kitchen Table, talk about 2019 seats and 2018 championship fights and Rally Japan

I'd be mega surprised if Meeke turns up again. As Colin suggests, perhaps there is still some Citroen red-tape to overcome.

[denkimi]

I think he means that a tarmac round should be introduced, or replace a gravel round, rather than replace an event already on tarmac. Something I agree with, makes the championship a bit more even in terms of surfaces.
Perhaps another mixed surface rally. Something like condroz in november in belgium. asphalt, but with leaves and lots of mud and dirt on the road.

[Zeakiwi]

I'd be mega surprised if Meeke turns up again. As Colin suggests, perhaps there is still some Citroen red-tape to overcome.

Who do M-Sport call if anyone trips in the shower/ has a mountain bike accident and there are contractual obligations with the sponsors to fulfil? Bryan Bouffier, Camilli, Luky?

[denkimi]

Who do M-Sport call if anyone trips in the shower/ has a mountain bike accident and there are contractual obligations with the sponsors to fulfil? Bryan Bouffier, Camilli, Luky?
Not Meeke unless citroen agrees. And i doubt that.

[the sniper]

Re Corsica vs Germany - Corsica for me.

The Tour de Corse has a big history and is considered one of the THE legendary rallies. There have been epic battles, great drama and shocking tragedies.

The Rally of 10,000 Corners is the driver's choice. It's main issue is island-based logistics which the teams dont like.

I'd go for keeping Germany. While I'm a big fan of the history of the Tour de Corse, I have to say to my mind, the current Tour de Corse is the worst adaption of a classic rally to the modern event formula. I like that they have long stages, but the empty looking itinerary it creates, particularly on the Friday, for what is now almost a 300km rally, just looks lacklustre. That's aside from the logistics issue and France already having another rally in the Monte, which realistically serves the country better.

Getting rid of Germany, you lose the pretty unique nature of the vineyards and the panzerplatte, which I think appeal even to people not interested in more common smooth tarmac rallies. They can make for good television. Most importantly though by losing Germany you leave a massive area of mainland Europe without any WRC rally, which would seem like a terrible idea in most sports, particularly when you consider the level of spectator and stakeholder (manufacturer) interest in that part of the world.

[AndyRAC]

Dropping Deutschland seems like shooting yourself in the foot; as already stated above, it's a unique challenge - and a massive car market.

The Rally purist in me wants to keep Corsica - but they need to change some of it. However, if it was dropped, that would mean Corsica joins Sanremo, Acropolis, Safari, NZ as ex WRC events; Can you afford to keep dropping iconic events?

[rallyfiend]

Dropping Deutschland seems like shooting yourself in the foot; as already stated above, it's a unique challenge - and a massive car market.

The Rally purist in me wants to keep Corsica - but they need to change some of it. However, if it was dropped, that would mean Corsica joins Sanremo, Acropolis, Safari, NZ as ex WRC events; Can you afford to keep dropping iconic events?

The FFSA themselves made the decision to abandon the 'historic' and 'iconic' Tour de Corse once, when they moved to Alsace.

They really shouldn't therefore expect the WRC to respect it when they bring back a crappy version of it....

[dnb]

But who's getting dropped when Kenya returns? And don't forget that FIA is led by French guy

[SubaruNorway]

Why is it such a hassle to get to Corsica and Sardinia by ferry?
No customs going from mainland France to Corsica right, or is it the capacity of the ferry's?

[ESTR]

But who's getting dropped when Kenya returns? And don't forget that FIA is led by French guy

Probably Spain. They have no issues of dropping asphalt rallies.

[AnttiL]

Probably Spain. They have no issues of dropping asphalt rallies.

The last dropped rallies: Poland, China, Acropolis, New Zealand, Jordan...

If Japan, a tarmac rally, comes in, it’s only logical that another has to go.

[tc10a]

Normally Rallye Deutschland never should be in question anyway. The vineyards stages and also Panzerplatte offer something unique. And it's not just the german round, it is for sure also the felt "home" wrc round for all those neighbouring countries like belgium, netherlands, austria, czech rep. etc. etc. Easy to reach in the heart of Europe. Not in a remote location like Corsica. With all the respect to the history, the corsica editions of the last years were a joke and clearly the most boring rallies of the year.

Fairly to say, the same remote location argument is also valid for Sardinia. The manufacturers already have mentioned more than once what they think about it. The new event in Turkey will probably offer very similar conditions and tv-images.

[dnb]

I'd personally like to see rotation of the rallies in the calendar again. Then we'd see new events like Canada, Chile, Croatia, Estonia. Maybe more as different countries see they have an opportunity. Can't be bad for the sport either.

[AnttiL]

Normally Rallye Deutschland never should be in question anyway. The vineyards stages and also Panzerplatte offer something unique. And it's not just the german round, it is for sure also the felt "home" wrc round for all those neighbouring countries like belgium, netherlands, austria, czech rep. etc. etc. Easy to reach in the heart of Europe. Not in a remote location like Corsica. With all the respect to the history, the corsica editions of the last years were a joke and clearly the most boring rallies of the year.

Fairly to say, the same remote location argument is also valid for Sardinia. The manufacturers already have mentioned more than once what they think about it. The new event in Turkey will probably offer very similar conditions and tv-images.

Turkey is also a logistical challenge. Takes five days for teams to get there https://rallysportmag.com/are-wrc-teams-ready-for-rally-turkey/

[steve.mandzij]

The last dropped rallies: Poland, China, Acropolis, New Zealand, Jordan...

If Japan, a tarmac rally, comes in, it’s only logical that another has to go.China is not at all possible to return, is it?

[racerx1979]

China is not at all possible to return, is it?

They did the WRC dirty the last time around. I don't think they even want to bother.

[Barreis]

i would like to see Croatia in WRC for sure...

[ESTR]

i would like to see Croatia in WRC for sure...

I think that will never happen, now it's delayed for 2020, but with Kenya entering at that time I don't think that Cro have any chance of getting spot. Whoever puts more money into Ciesla's pocket that one wins..

[EstWRC]

as i understand then Jouhki rarely gives public interviews, but one estonian reporter caught him in germany and i thought ill share it.

For example i didnt know that he tried to get Tänak and Neuville under his wing back in the day.

for the intro: "Every team is interested in Rovanpera but no one has made a good enough offer yet, or an offer that suits me. Next year he will still be in WRC2 althoug he would already quite nicely manage the WRC car. At the age of 20 he will be in the factory team"

You are the only manager that invests a lot of money on young talents?

"Not the only one but one of the few ones, I think Märtin is doing also the same."

Märtin stole Tänak right under your nose?

"Not really, i believed in Tänak and I had had some conversations with him. I was in the Pirelli Star Driver jury back in 2009 and i put Tänak number one. I rarely work with other guys from other nations, i cant get close enough of them to see their level. Tänak was an exception - I saw right away that he would do big things - and Neuville but i couldnt get either of them. I was offering a deal for Ott but somehow things went wrong. He and Markko decided to follow their own road. Neuville came on the market when I was really busy with Hirvonen and Latvala and i had no time to deal with him."

We have heard that you have quite a big team helping you?

"Yes, Im taking the raw talent and making him a professional rally driver. Im helped by media people, engineers and technicians who are teaching the drivers. Also former co-drivers who are helping them with notes."

It seems there are only very good drivers coming under from your wing, have some of the drivers failed?

"Yes, one time. Then I didnt do psychological tests for them, he wasnt very strong from the mental side but he was very fast, but crashed a lot."

Tänak also crashed a lot back in the day, everyone does in the beginning

"I havent done psychological tests on Ott, so I dont know what was the reason for the crashes. He has always been very fast and was actually driving quite confidently in the beginning. The mistakes started coming when he jumped into the WRC car. I think he put huge pressure on himself, he wanted to deliver very quickly."

So before you choose the driver you are following his driving and mental side very closely?

"The groundwork is huge. In the beginning of millenium I was checking over 10 young finnish drivers, I turned down half of them. I continued with the five that was left, In the end I did a group test for them to see their speed and mental strength in hard situations. In the end from these five, I chose Hirvonen and Latvala."

Both havent been world champions. Why? Because both have had Sebastiens ahead of them?

"Latvala is let down by his mental side, he puts so much pressure on himself and he cant cope with it, and this is when he makes the mistakes. Hirvonen was left without a title because of WIlson. M-sport didnt use team tactics back in the day like Citroen did for Loeb. If Wilson had told to Latvala to let Hivonen pass in Rally Sardinia, then Hirvonen would have been the champ."

Management job is also a business, you invest in the driver a lot in the beginning and later you take half of his earnings?

"Yes, if the drivers finally go into factory team, if not, then all of my money is wasted. But yes, it is true that Ill take like 50% of their earnings. Its just how this business works. And Im actually very kind guy, I know that some take even more! It all depens how much I have invested in the driver and how much time it takes for him to reach the factory team."

If we look how much rallies Rovanpera is already racing, it is quite impressive already

"God has made him to race, I already had an eye on him when he was eight. The difference with other drivers and Rovanpera is that I work with him on every aspect: he is being teached how to setup and develop the car, how to write notes, when to push or not. My idea is that you have to test a lot. Where do you think athletes develop the most, on trainings or at grand prix? If you look then racing drivers also do more kilometres on free practice and on tests. Why should rallying be different?"

Mäkinen is recently wondering how there have been coming so many young talented finns through

"Talented drivers are everywhere, France, Spain and GB but another thing is how to develop them, you have to know how do to this job."

If someone calls you and says he is a very fast and talented guy and asks your help, what do you answer?

"There are a lot of calls all the time, but the truth is I choose with who I work."

Will Tänak be a champion one day, or are Ogier and Neuville too tough for him?

"No they arent tough, Tänak is at the moment and quite often beating them. If he hadnt had those car problems, he would be leading. He has been basically the fastest on every rally, has the most stage wins. Why cant he be champ this year? He is driving very cleanly, he hasnt made a single big mistake."


We are talking here about Rovanpera, but we have also have Tidemand who has been WRC2 champ but cant get into factory team

"Tidemand is a very good driver, very fast but he has a very poor management. But if we look at the current market then maybe he will get his chance next year."

But there arent many drivers who could win world championship, Sordo and Evans are nice guys but...

"They will never be champions. There are never too many guys who can fight for the title but teams also need good second and third drivers."

[mknight]

Well the interview makes him sound as the best rally manager there is...
Now the facts.
-A driver he managed has not won WDC for over 18 years (I think he managed Gronholm).
- None of the current top 3 drivers is managed by him
- he almost destroyed Hirvonens career by putting him to Subaru too early in 2004 when he subsequently crashed out (though this was also affected by Burns illness)
- all this talk about mental tests and JML has been a mental mess for last 4? years, sure a good manager should be able to get him good mental trainer/psychologist (or if he cant be helped, it was a wrong pick in the first place)

But yeah, has time to badmouth Tidemand management instead. With 3 VW drivers suddenly on the markert it was hard for him to get seat unless he was willing to pay, which didn't seem to be the case.

[pantealex]

Jouhki was not Grönholm´s manager...
so Tommi is his last champ.

[SubaruNorway]

The man is pretty harsh, why do i get the feeling Lappi was stolen from under his nose?
I wouldn't call a team that manages Mikkelsen, Lappi, Kristoffersson, Tidemand and Veiby bad management, they've been doing decent for a team that don't pay their way into a team.

[pantealex]

The man is pretty harsh, why i get the feeling Lappi was stolen from under his nose?
I wouldn't call a team that manages Mikkelsen, Lappi, Kristoffersson, Tidemand and Veiby bad management, they've been doing decent for a team that don't pay their way into a team.

+1

Agreed.

[Allez Andruet]

The man is pretty harsh
Managers, atleast the most successful ones, usually aren't the nicest guys around.

[Allez Andruet]

he almost destroyed Hirvonens career by putting him to Subaru too early in 2004 when he subsequently crashed out
Come on, isn't that a bit hypocrite? Like there would be a manager who turns down that kind of an offer for his client?

[BigWorm]

Come on, isn't that a bit hypocrite? Like there would be a manager who turns down that kind of an offer for his client?

Well the offer turned out to be a mess for Hirvonen, as 2004 was a nightmarish year for him. In hindsight he was not ready to be put in the Subaru.

But then again Hirvonen's career turned out alright.

[mknight]

Well the offer turned out to be a mess for Hirvonen, as 2004 was a nightmarish year for him. In hindsight he was not ready to be put in the Subaru.

But then again Hirvonen's career turned out alright.
The way I understand it they paid his way in and with Burns unable to drive he got promoted to 2nd driver that he was not ready for.
Yes he came back in 2006 and did well. However, note that in 2005 M-Sport did a "low cost" year with untested cheap/paying drivers (Gardermeister, Kresta and Sola). None of them did well enough to secure a drive next year. But if any of them did it is possible that Hirvonen wouldn't be able to get back at all. Just shows the danger of the "get them in early with cash" strategy that Jouhki does.

[AndyRAC]

Not a fan of Jouhki - he's had a unhealthy influence on the driver market over the years - but he's pretty successful; If Latvala was with another manager, I doubt he'd have had the career in WRC that he's had.

[Allez Andruet]

Not a fan of Jouhki - he's had a unhealthy influence on the driver market over the years
Unhealthy? How come?

[dnb]

Well the interview makes him sound as the best rally manager there is...
Now the facts.
-A driver he managed has not won WDC for over 18 years (I think he managed Gronholm).
- None of the current top 3 drivers is managed by him
- he almost destroyed Hirvonens career by putting him to Subaru too early in 2004 when he subsequently crashed out (though this was also affected by Burns illness)
- all this talk about mental tests and JML has been a mental mess for last 4? years, sure a good manager should be able to get him good mental trainer/psychologist (or if he cant be helped, it was a wrong pick in the first place)


He has definitely gained profit from Latvala's career. But gotta respect the man, he's the reason why there are more Finns than from any other nation.

[Allez Andruet]

Yes he came back in 2006 and did well. However, note that in 2005 M-Sport did a "low cost" year with untested cheap/paying drivers (Gardermeister, Kresta and Sola). None of them did well enough to secure a drive next year. But if any of them did it is possible that Hirvonen wouldn't be able to get back at all.
If if and if. We can easily rewrite the history that way. The truth is that they all failed their big chance (especially Gardemeister - another Jouhki client btw) while Hirvonen was 3rd in Catalunya and 5th in Acropolis with a Jari Viita-owned private Focus.

[mknight]

Hirvonen got very close to losing his rally career because of starting too early as factory driver and consequently failing mentaly (crashed). Both of which are Joukhis main "strengths".

[Allez Andruet]

Hirvonen got very close to losing his rally career because of starting too early as factory driver and consequently failing mentaly (crashed).
No he didn't. He had a terrific 2005 in a private car which got him the Ford deal for 2006 onwards.

[Simmi]

In the wider context of rally careers Mikko was probably fast tracked a bit into that Subaru drive. He'd had a full season at WRC level the year before, albeit in year-old machinery - but really no experience of the WRC rounds before 2003. If the rules had still allowed for three manufacturer scorers in 2004 then I think that would have been much better for him. As with Tanak you've got to credit Malcolm Wilson for sticking with him and giving him that leg up. In another era he probably could have a world title on his mantlepiece.

[GravelBen]

...In another era he probably could have a world title on his mantlepiece.

Not just another era, even in the Loeb era he would have won at least one title if Ford had used team orders the same way Citroen did.

[lnvs]

Unhealthy? How come?
He has reputation to downplay those who are not in his management at least as much as he promote his own drivers. Grönholm, Hänninen and Lappi are rare examples who could push through without team Jouhki. More or less once in every 10 years. It's not like these are the only rally talents Finland had in those years. Some of them just couldn't shine. Although bitter talk about downplay doesn't end in the Finnish border. :rolleyes:

[sollitt]

Not just another era, even in the Loeb era he would have won at least one title if Ford had used team orders the same way Citroen did.If a driver requires team orders to be champion they are not worthy.

[pantealex]

If a driver requires team orders to be champion they are not worthy.

so you are not counting Loeb and Ogier as champs. Petter is/was your last champ? or did his team mates help him?

[Allez Andruet]

He has reputation to downplay those who are not in his management at least as much as he promote his own drivers.
What?! What's that suppose to mean? Isn't that what every manager does (or atleast should be doing)?

[lnvs]

What?! What's that suppose to mean? Isn't that what every manager does (or atleast should be doing)?Yes he should. Maybe he was first in rallying to act like "F1" pro manager and people weren't ready for it (still some aren't). In rallying world everyone is used to relax and friendly environment.

Calling Even a bad management is very typical of him. He is harsh to everyone. Also to his own drivers. Sometimes it sounded like he was selling Hirvonen and Latvala like "the least worst option". :D

[sollitt]

so you are not counting Loeb and Ogier as champs. Petter is/was your last champ? or did his team mates help him?There is a significant difference between using team orders to win and requiring them.

[GravelBen]

If a driver requires team orders to be champion they are not worthy.

Then Hirvonen deserved to beat Loeb that year, and Loeb was not a worthy champion because he would not have won without team orders.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138528/gronholm-working-on-wrc-return-with-toyota

Grönholm planning to do a one-off in Sweden

[Tauri_J]

Autosport picked up a really old news.

[AnttiL]

Autosport picked up a really old news.

Really? I remember there were talks of him maybe doing this year's Sweden but it failed. I haven't heard anything about retrying next year before this. Mäkinen seems to have a lot of inquiries for rented WRC cars (Nasser, Kremer, Grönholm, Räikkönen(?)) but so far he hasn't been able to supply any.

[Tarmop]

There have been talks about Sweden 2019 also. Solberg is also interested in doing one event with (as he called it, his friends :D) Yaris.

[KKS]

Gronholm talk about this at Finland on wrc+.

[AnttiL]

https://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-toppuuttaa-marcus-gronholmin-paluuhuhuja-vielako-sun-ajopuku-mahtuu-paalle/7060432#gs.LBSmp7g

Mäkinen joking with Grönholm "do you still fit in your driving overalls?" Mäkinen says the Autosport article is pure speculation at this point.

[RAS007]

If a driver requires team orders to be champion they are not worthy.

Ridiculous statement.

[dimviii]

Meeke, together with Derek Brannigan reading the notes, will join already confirmed special guests Mikko Hirvonen and Craig Breen, while the final Rallylegend 2018 entry list is still a work in progress. The event nevertheless promises to be something special, with an array of very special historic rally cars and big names from the rallying world both past and present. With a constant flow of entries coming in, registration remains open until Monday 17 September.
As for the 50th anniversary of Martini Racing in motorsport, a milestone that will be celebrated at Rallylegend, a whole host of initiatives are planned, with a number of special guests set to attend, great champions who wore the blue-sky blue-red-white colours of the Martini brand, both in rallies and on track. Miki Biasion was one of the first to accept the invite and will be joined by a number of big names from the worlds of rally and track.
16th RALLYLEGEND 2018

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=672664646452453&id=456282081424045


https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138542/meeke-returns-for-rallylegend-event

[dimviii]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138547/citroen-chasing-ogier-lappi-breen-lineup

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138547/citroen-chasing-ogier-lappi-breen-lineup

I still think negotiating with Lappi is just a backup plan in case they don’t get Ogier

[BigWorm]

I still think negotiating with Lappi is just a backup plan in case they don’t get Ogier

Getting both would be very good business, but naturally they'd go for Ogier if they can't get both.

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138547/citroen-chasing-ogier-lappi-breen-lineup

Really not sure if its realistic to get (pay) both Ogier and Lappi. Maybe it's more of a backup plan in case Ogier doesn't sign. In that case it sounds like good idea, unlike last year when in Matton's own word they let Mikkelsen go to focus on Ogier and ended up not signing anyone.

Anyway I repeat whan i wrote earlier. For the championship it's now important that Citroen gets good lineup and good results so that they stay in the series. Msport is not going to leave even with a weak lineup.

[Barreis]

why to sign Lappi?! they need complete driver. both, Breen and Lappi need years of development...

[sollitt]

RAS007. Nothing ridiculous about the statement at all.
It was reactionary to a claim that, despite being gifted the resources and opportunity to contest the title for 10 years, a competitor was denied their only chance to have their name engraved on the champions cup because a team manager failed to slow another competitor down on one singular event and that, consequently, it was the manager's fault, and not the competitors, that he never became champion.
If you're looking for the ridiculous I suggest you look right there.

[ESTR]

If Japan, a tarmac rally, comes in, it’s only logical that another has to go.

Now with all the talk about dropping Corsica for Japan, OK. That's it. But why Germany?? and bring Chile in. Then we have 1 tarmac rally less again. 3 in total and what 12 of gravel... That's not right. And two of that 3 rallies is mixed surface so one only proper tarmac (except if kinezi instead surprise us all)...

[AnttiL]

Now with all the talk about dropping Corsica for Japan, OK. That's it. But why Germany?? and bring Chile in. Then we have 1 tarmac rally less again. 3 in total and what 12 of gravel... That's not right. And two of that 3 rallies is mixed surface so one only proper tarmac (except if kinezi instead surprise us all)...

Japan in --> Corsica or Deutschland out
Chile in --> Turkey or Sardegna out

Gravel/Tarmac balance stays

[Allez Andruet]

why to sign Lappi?! they need complete driver. both, Breen and Lappi need years of development...

Rally winner, PS winner and current 4th in the championship needs "years of development"... Guess there aren't too many complete drivers then to start with.

[er88]

Really not sure if its realistic to get (pay) both Ogier and Lappi. Maybe it's more of a backup plan in case Ogier doesn't sign. In that case it sounds like good idea, unlike last year when in Matton's own word they let Mikkelsen go to focus on Ogier and ended up not signing anyone.

Anyway I repeat whan i wrote earlier. For the championship it's now important that Citroen gets good lineup and good results so that they stay in the series. Msport is not going to leave even with a weak lineup.Tbh yes it was poor management by Matton, but Andreas was always going to go to Hyundai over Citroen by all accounts. He went to Hyundai because he couldn't really drive the C3 and he felt he could challenge for the championship in the i20 and a car he felt at home in and quick.

Matton should've done more about looking outwith Ogier, but more in terms of going for a young up and coming driver or trying to get Sordo/Paddon to help me the team out for 2018. Mikkelsen was only going to Citroen if no other team offered him a drive for 2018 and Matton probably knew that.

[Barreis]

Rally winner, PS winner and current 4th in the championship needs "years of development"... Guess there aren't too many complete drivers then to start with.

well, Sordo is 6th with six events and two DNFs. Lappi is good but is he a champiosnhip material?! citroen should give Ogier an offer that he can't refuse and that's it. Sordo for the 2nd driver and Breen to find a job somewhere else

[Allez Andruet]

Lappi is good but is he a champiosnhip material?!
Lappi definitely is championship material, everyone who's able to win a rally and able to win PS on all surfaces is. That's a no-brainer. Is he ever going to win a title? That's another question altogether.

[Rally Power]

Tbh yes it was poor management by Matton, but Andreas was always going to go to Hyundai over Citroen by all accounts. He went to Hyundai because he couldn't really drive the C3 and he felt he could challenge for the championship in the i20 and a car he felt at home in and quick.

Honestly, it looked more the other way around: Mikkelsen would have signed with Citroen if Matton had offered him a seat in due time. Matton choose to keep waiting for Ogier and Hyundai took the chance to sign Mikkelsen.

To avoid repeating a similar flop, this year Citroen plan A should be trying to get Lappi ASAP and continue the talks with Ogier; if those fail (as expected) they still would guarantee a new strong leading driver.

[pantealex]

Erik Veiby said that Toyota has made offer to Lappi (so Toyota will not kick him out)

but also stated that Lappi has visited Citroen HQ resently.

I personally don´t see any point for Lappi to go Citroen if Ogier is there, he will never get equal chances. I also believe that Yaris is faster car, so better to be 2/3 driver in Toyota than in Citroen. Just my opinion.

[Rally Power]

Erik Veiby said that Toyota has made offer to Lappi (so Toyota will not kick him out)
but also stated that Lappi has visited Citroen HQ resently.
I personally don´t see any point for Lappi to go Citroen if Ogier is there, he will never get equal chances. I also believe that Yaris is faster car, so better to be 2/3 driver in Toyota than in Citroen. Just my opinion.

Fair points; even Lappi admitted he would prefer to stay at Toyota! It's not easy for Citroen: they can’t promise Lappi first driver seat (probably the major argument for him to sign) but if they don’t get Ogier (that may not even depend on their offer) they risk having another wasted line up…

[wrc2017]

Ostberg was the 2nd coming a month back, now he is not even missed in the conversation.

[ESTR]

They don't even mention Ostberg at all. But he is currently only complete driver at Citroen with couple of decent and podium results. I have a feeling that he will again lose a seat... And Breen probably share again... Shitty team from the start.

[mknight]

They don't even mention Ostberg at all. But he is currently only complete driver at Citroen with couple of decent and podium results. I have a feeling that he will again lose a seat... And Breen probably share again... Shitty team from the start.

Østberg would be very good 3rd driver. If both Ogier and Lappi go to Citroen (which I doubt) then I'd pick Breen over him purely based on age.

ATM I rate him above Evans and in terms of results also above Suninen, not much future potential though.

[Rally Power]

Ostberg was the 2nd coming a month back, now he is not even missed in the conversation.


They don't even mention Ostberg at all. But he is currently only complete driver at Citroen with couple of decent and podium results. I have a feeling that he will again lose a seat... And Breen probably share again... Shitty team from the start.

No offense guys, but you really make me remind these fellows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpgGwGIqccc

[KKS]

Really not sure if its realistic to get (pay) both Ogier and Lappi. Maybe it's more of a backup plan in case Ogier doesn't sign. In that case it sounds like good idea, unlike last year when in Matton's own word they let Mikkelsen go to focus on Ogier and ended up not signing anyone.

Anyway I repeat whan i wrote earlier. For the championship it's now important that Citroen gets good lineup and good results so that they stay in the series. Msport is not going to leave even with a weak lineup.
Citroen will stay for a 2 yrs in any case. Plus they have nearly unlimited budget for Ogier, and Ogier want to be a hero in France when he retired. So I guess Ogier was already signed for Citroen for this 2yrs, and he knows as sooner he get-in testing car for a 2019 - as better. Cuz he want retire at high note, 2 championships win for French with a French manufacture - that's he's plan.

[er88]

Honestly, it looked more the other way around: Mikkelsen would have signed with Citroen if Matton had offered him a seat in due time. Matton choose to keep waiting for Ogier and Hyundai took the chance to sign Mikkelsen.

To avoid repeating a similar flop, this year Citroen plan A should be trying to get Lappi ASAP and continue the talks with Ogier; if those fail (as expected) they still would guarantee a new strong leading driver.Nah, Mikkelsen and Hyundai knew what was happening when they let him test one of their cars. He knew he was fancied there and that it was heavily likely there was going to be an opening there for 2018.

[mknight]

Nah, Mikkelsen and Hyundai knew what was happening when they let him test one of their cars. He knew he was fancied there and that it was heavily likely there was going to be an opening there for 2018.

[Offtopic]
Mikkelsen tested the Hyundai before Portugal in 2017, first after Portugal he drove the Citroen for 3 rallies. Anyway, time to stop spamming this thread with old info.
[/Offotpic]

[er88]

[Offtopic]
Mikkelsen tested the Hyundai before Portugal in 2017, first after Portugal he drove the Citroen for 3 rallies. Anyway, time to stop spamming this thread with old info.
[/Offotpic]Exactly my point. Hyundai had put the feelers out early.

[Duvel]

My guess is also on Ogier going to citroen.

[ESTR]

You all forget about Qassimi. If Ogier comes to Citroen sure he will stay with his few cents in the game. But he will drive a few rallies and stole 3rd seat. (no not stole, it is his)...

[AnttiL]

You all forget about Qassimi. If Ogier comes to Citroen sure he will stay with his few cents in the game. But he will drive a few rallies and stole 3rd seat. (no not stole, it is his)...

There could be a clash with Abu Dhabi and Red Bull. Maybe Ogier brings Red Bull funding to Citroen and Al-Qassimi brings his money to M-Sport instead? I'd say it would be a win-win for all parties.

[wrc2017]

No offense guys, but you really make me remind these fellows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpgGwGIqccc

whats your problem. im only stating a fact.

[Tarmop]

A complete driver with one victory due to rallying on paper and hasn`t yet done anything on tarmac? Far from a complete driver....

[ESTR]

whats your problem. im only stating a fact.

Most of the people right here is geeks with moms cooking their meals & washing their underwears. Don't bother too much haha

[wrc2017]

Most of the people right here is geeks with moms cooking their meals & washing their underwears. Don't bother too much haha

speak for yourself.

[tomhlord]

There could be a clash with Abu Dhabi and Red Bull. Maybe Ogier brings Red Bull funding to Citroen and Al-Qassimi brings his money to M-Sport instead? I'd say it would be a win-win for all parties.

I'd argue that the Abu Dhabi backing is the key to the driver market, especially if it is a clash with Reb Bull or it moves elsewhere.

[ESTR]

Yes I'm one of them. Just on short. When I was 24 I go on my own and I learn to do everything on my own.. Now one year later I bought myself a house with my money. When novadays most of the guys stay at home for about whole life. Probably dad pay for everything even for rallying career. And poor guys can't even go to work, because they need to be prepared for 4 events in whole year...

[Allez Andruet]

When I was 24 I go on my own and I learn to do everything on my own...
That's probably the purest act of bravery I've ever heard.

[ESTR]

That's probably the purest act of bravery I've ever heard.

retards

[racerx1979]

That's probably the purest act of bravery I've ever heard.

And so young too :D

[Rally Power]

retards

Chill out mate; no need to take it so personally. We all tend to act like Statler and Waldorf now and then; it just becomes annoying if we do it all the time.

[hype]

When does FIA decide on the calendar for 2019?

[Andre Oliveira]

Hyundai Motorsport and Thierry Neuville extend contract for three years

Hyundai Motorsport and current FIA World Rally Championship (WRC) leader Thierry Neuville have signed three-year contract extension up to and including the 2021 season

[mknight]

Probably the least expected signing of them all. Still 3 years is maybe a bit longer than expected, I'd guess 2 years beforehand.