View Full Version : Grönholm said something on the podium.
Viktory
8th May 2007, 11:30
I don't know if I was the only one to see it, or if I mis-heard something but; on the Eurosport live coverage of the last stage in Argentina, when Grönholm was on the podium collecting the prize for second, one of the Argentinians said something which sounded like "We'll see you next year?" and Grönholm responded with a "njaeeh" and waving his hand a little and looking as if he didn't want to. You could only hear it in the distance since no microphones were near them.
If I did hear this correctly, my feelings that this is his last year are strengthened. Anyone else hear it?
WRC2006
8th May 2007, 12:02
No you ain't the only one to see that. I saw that as well and Marcus was not happy and was asking myself if it is because of what that Argentinian guy told him or something else.
Has anyone also noticed that lately Grönholm looks a little tired in interviews, rubbing his eyes? He sure doesn't look too enthusiastic any more.(to me at least)
Has anyone also noticed that lately Grönholm looks a little tired in interviews, rubbing his eyes? He sure doesn't look too enthusiastic any more.(to me at least)
He can't catch Loeb. It soooooo boring right now.
I watch manu title fight. I hope Ford can pick 1st (BP-Ford) and 3rd (Stobart).
Has anyone also noticed that lately Grönholm looks a little tired in interviews, rubbing his eyes? He sure doesn't look too enthusiastic any more.(to me at least)
But you cant't disagree that in the car he gives all his power. It's pity that he cannot challenge Seb very seriously anymore. Probably the C4 is too strong. Maybe in some flowing-road rally where acceleration-power is not very important he can give some fight to Loeb.
jonas_mcrae
8th May 2007, 15:26
he responded no because he doesnt want to go back to rally argentina after such a mess not because he wants to quit rallying LOL
Loeb beats gronholm into retirement this year......literally.
Woodeye
8th May 2007, 18:12
Loeb beats gronholm into retirement this year......literally.
And you still keep the same broken record playing. From day to day from month to month. :dozey:
Rallying would become all the more fragile if Gronholm retired in my opinion. I can see his motivation slipping completely if Fords 07 car is not up to speed.
But you cant't disagree that in the car he gives all his power. It's pity that he cannot challenge Seb very seriously anymore. Probably the C4 is too strong. Maybe in some flowing-road rally where acceleration-power is not very important he can give some fight to Loeb.
is it true that the citroen car could be illegal because of the seating position of the drivers in the car is to far out of line with the road car and where the seats are gives a lower center of gravity and better balance to the car, because they are so far back, thereare a couple of other designs to the car inside that lowers the center of gravity but i cant remember then at the moment may lok it up again
Shrike
8th May 2007, 20:51
Without Grönholm the Loeb show will be even more boring. He is the only one who can make things interesting.
Indeed i think Gronholm is best at creating the delusion that someone else might win a rally.
DonJippo
8th May 2007, 22:30
Indeed i think Gronholm is best at creating the delusion that someone else might win a rally.
So you do have a delusion that Seb has been the only winner this year sofar...
A.F.F.
8th May 2007, 23:48
I want to see how NOT is going to change his jacket out of this one :D
WRCfan
9th May 2007, 04:14
Loeb has made WRC boring for spectators and people watching TV. Although if we were in his position we wouldn't be slowing so i can't blame him for being so dominant but it is boring as hell.
TV spends too much time letting us know whats happening "up front" well we damn well know whats happening when Loeb is winning, show us some other battles which make it look slightly more exciting than the borefest that is Loeb and his dominance....
raphael123
9th May 2007, 09:30
I think some people here are giving Gronholm too much praise, in saying the reason why Loeb is dominating is because the C4. That was the excuse which was used when he had the Xsara. Then when he went to a privately funded team, and Gronholm was in a works team, again, they said the privately funded team was 'obviously' better than the works Focus, and now the C4, a brand new car, is better than the Focus which has been going for a long time. It couldn't be the fact Loeb is that good? It's not as if Ford have won the Constructors title is it? Or are leading it this year?
Sordo isn't exactly a poor rally driver, McRae and Sainz, thought past their best were still pretty exceptional, and Duval actually looked like a future regular WRC winner in his Ford days, before he came alongside Loeb, but none of these guys have come to matching Loeb. I think sometimes you have to look at what is happening, and just admit Loeb, yes he is making it boring by winning, but he is simply too good.
Gronholm, when he won his 2 titles was super quick, and never seemed to make mistakes. I remember Burns saying how impressive it was that Gronholm NEVER made mistakes. Loeb has come along, and Gronholm is having to push harder than ever, but with that he is making mistake after mistake as he pushes.
On a side note, I think the WRC will be a lesser place without Gronholm. The drivers in the WRC are very poor compared to what they have been, and Gronholm, if it wasn't for Loeb, would be the most successful driver by a mile, and dominating the WRC to an even greater extent than Loeb is over Gronholm. I do think the point system is unfair, when 6 rallies in, when one driver has won 4 rallies, and the other has won 1, there is only a 3pt difference!
Donney
9th May 2007, 09:46
I agree but Gronholm is a driver to be missed. It is not Loeb fault if he is better than the rest and yes rallying is boring because we only have two drivers and two teams, and out of them only two cars, fighting regularly for the win.
If Gronholm goes I think WRC will suffer badly and S2000 will get most of the attention.
cut the b.s.
9th May 2007, 09:51
I think some people here are giving Gronholm too much praise, in saying the reason why Loeb is dominating is because the C4. That was the excuse which was used when he had the Xsara. Then when he went to a privately funded team, and Gronholm was in a works team, again, they said the privately funded team was 'obviously' better than the works Focus, and now the C4, a brand new car, is better than the Focus which has been going for a long time. It couldn't be the fact Loeb is that good? It's not as if Ford have won the Constructors title is it? Or are leading it this year?
Sordo isn't exactly a poor rally driver, McRae and Sainz, thought past their best were still pretty exceptional, and Duval actually looked like a future regular WRC winner in his Ford days, before he came alongside Loeb, but none of these guys have come to matching Loeb. I think sometimes you have to look at what is happening, and just admit Loeb, yes he is making it boring by winning, but he is simply too good.
Gronholm, when he won his 2 titles was super quick, and never seemed to make mistakes. I remember Burns saying how impressive it was that Gronholm NEVER made mistakes. Loeb has come along, and Gronholm is having to push harder than ever, but with that he is making mistake after mistake as he pushes.
On a side note, I think the WRC will be a lesser place without Gronholm. The drivers in the WRC are very poor compared to what they have been, and Gronholm, if it wasn't for Loeb, would be the most successful driver by a mile, and dominating the WRC to an even greater extent than Loeb is over Gronholm. I do think the point system is unfair, when 6 rallies in, when one driver has won 4 rallies, and the other has won 1, there is only a 3pt difference!
spot on, I agree with every word, when drivers had to start paying for works drives it was the end of real talent coming to the top, now we are seeing the results of this, there is certainly one driver with citroen links who given a chance and seat time in a C4 could make Loeb sweat for his results, unfortunately he hadnt the funds......
spot on, I agree with every word, when drivers had to start paying for works drives it was the end of real talent coming to the top, now we are seeing the results of this, there is certainly one driver with citroen links who given a chance and seat time in a C4 could make Loeb sweat for his results, unfortunately he hadnt the funds......
persume your on about kris meeke
I think some people here are giving Gronholm too much praise, in saying the reason why Loeb is dominating is because the C4. That was the excuse which was used when he had the Xsara. Then when he went to a privately funded team, and Gronholm was in a works team, again, they said the privately funded team was 'obviously' better than the works Focus, and now the C4, a brand new car, is better than the Focus which has been going for a long time. It couldn't be the fact Loeb is that good? It's not as if Ford have won the Constructors title is it? Or are leading it this year?
You speak the truth...
Personally I don't think WRC will be less exiting without Gronholm. Let's be honest, he loses out to Loeb everytime anyway. We might see other drivers shine when they have to try and take on Loeb. People might be surprised...
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 13:09
You speak the truth...
Personally I don't think WRC will be less exiting without Gronholm. Let's be honest, he loses out to Loeb everytime anyway. We might see other drivers shine when they have to try and take on Loeb. People might be surprised...
You're saying nonsense... Gronholm is the only one to be able to put some pressure on Loeb. If not he, then who else? Yes, of course as soon as Hirvonen is promoted to the #1 driver, he'll be able to push harder than now and add more rally wins (hope, much more) to his tally. But Gronholm' withdrawl will do nothing for other drivers from Subaru, Stobart, etc... They will just step one place higher in rounds' rankings, but 1st and 2nd will still be taken by Loeb and Hirvonen in any order you like. if Solberg really could, he would have beaten Loeb by now, Gronholm doesn't actually prevent him from doing this! The only one who can benefit from Gronholm's absense is Hirvonen as he will be promoted... And maybe Latvala if he is taken to BP-Ford as #2 driver. but as for others, they're free to show what they can do already NOW! But they don't do it! And after this you say people overrate Gronholm? haha...No, Gronholm is just doing his job, and doing it perfectly considering the curretn situation with Citroen' domination. I'd say even more, gronholm is underrated. he lost 2 years of his career in Peugeot 307 WRC. Had he the Focus WRC 06 those days, we could see him dominating the WRC, not Loeb, and everybody would say now he's the best driver of all times.
You're saying nonsense... Gronholm is the only one to be able to put some pressure on Loeb.
Really? Apart from the snow rallies it's rare to see him put pressure on Loeb. In case you haven't noticed Loeb beats Gronholm by quite a margin rally in and rally out.
If not he, then who else? Yes, of course as soon as Hirvonen is promoted to the #1 driver, he'll be able to push harder than now and add more rally wins (hope, much more) to his tally.
Yes, Hirvonen, Sordo and maybe soon Latvala are more likely to end up beating Loeb in the future. For Gronholm it will not happen anymore - he is to old and doesn't have Loeb's speed.
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 15:20
Yes, Hirvonen, Sordo and maybe soon Latvala are more likely to end up beating Loeb in the future. For Gronholm it will not happen anymore - he is to old and doesn't have Loeb's speed.
Is speed somehow related to the age in autosport? Ask any champion:
Schumacher in f1... Petheransel in Dakar. Kristensen in LeMans... Schneider in DTM... They are as old, as Gronholm is in WRC. ut they all are still capable of winning titles.
Is speed somehow related to the age in autosport? Ask any champion:
Schumacher in f1... Petheransel in Dakar. Kristensen in LeMans... Schneider in DTM... They are as old, as Gronholm is in WRC. ut they all are still capable of winning titles.
If you think Gronholm has what it takes to win a title again, then fine by me. I just don't think so.
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 15:29
If you think Gronholm has what it takes to win a title again, then fine by me. I just don't think so.
As for now, I don't think so... Well. no, I'm confident in Marcus' ability, but not in the whole driver-car-team package. I'll tell you after Finland (where the new Focus appears) if Gronholm can take the title. Anyway, I do agree this year is his last chance to grab it...
A.F.F.
9th May 2007, 16:35
As much as dig Marcus over Loeb, it's clear that this moment he can't match Loeb's pace. Then again, no-one can. However, whether it's due the machinery, Marcus being old etc, I think it's irrelevant. We can't say who is the fastest unless these gentlemen, Sebastien, Marcus and Petter drive the same stage in the same car at the same conditions.
Only thing is clear is that Marcus is running out of time.
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 17:00
Only thing is clear is that Marcus is running out of time.
yes, as I said earlier, had he had Focus back in 2004-2005, he would have had more chances for the title. Peugeot spoilt him 2 years of his career. The same fro Subaru and poor Petter...
cut the b.s.
9th May 2007, 17:37
yes, as I said earlier, had he had Focus back in 2004-2005, he would have had more chances for the title. Peugeot spoilt him 2 years of his career. The same fro Subaru and poor Petter...
Peugeot also gave him his break and a very good car for 4 years....
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 17:53
Peugeot also gave him his break and a very good car for 4 years....
Not for 4 years. Just for 2: 2000 and 2002. In 2001 and 2003 were too much problems, in 2003 mostly cause of the 307 development...(
jparker
10th May 2007, 03:09
Only thing is clear is that Marcus is running out of time.
Why?
WRCfan
10th May 2007, 04:09
It's been hinted this is his last year in the WRC Marcus has made noises about it as well, time to spend life as more of a family man......
Finni
10th May 2007, 07:58
Why?
He is 39. It's very rare phenomenon that someone is almost at the top of his game at that age. I think that last three-four years I have been waiting that his speed disappears but he has kept it quite well. We can't even know with certainty if he has lost anything.
A.F.F.
10th May 2007, 09:43
Why?
Like WRCfan and Finni said. Marcus isn't getting any younger, is he?
cosmicpanda
10th May 2007, 13:13
is it true that the citroen car could be illegal because of the seating position of the drivers in the car is to far out of line with the road car and where the seats are gives a lower center of gravity and better balance to the car, because they are so far back, thereare a couple of other designs to the car inside that lowers the center of gravity but i cant remember then at the moment may lok it up again
Do you think that the FIA, which can spot a rear window's being .5 mm too thin, would miss a seat being way too far back?
jparker
10th May 2007, 18:16
Like WRCfan and Finni said. Marcus isn't getting any younger, is he?
Yes, but he's not getting any slower. Why stop now, except if that's his personal choice.
I think Gronholm has the same situation that Mika Hakkinen had in his last year in F1. When Hakkinen decided to retire he did lost his speed. I'd imagine that when you've made up your mind to retire you don't want to take changes like you used to do.
Gronholm has been very "ungronholm" this year. He stops to push for the win when behind only 10-20 seconds and settles for the second place. Now, had he done that last season and the one before he could've been in the championship hunt for longer. There were few rallies where driving for the win cost him the hole rally. And this year you don't see him fight to the bitter end.
Well why should he, because Loeb doesn't make any mistakes under pressure.
jparker
10th May 2007, 19:57
I think Gronholm has the same situation that Mika Hakkinen had in his last year in F1. When Hakkinen decided to retire he did lost his speed. I'd imagine that when you've made up your mind to retire you don't want to take changes like you used to do.
Gronholm has been very "ungronholm" this year. He stops to push for the win when behind only 10-20 seconds and settles for the second place. Now, had he done that last season and the one before he could've been in the championship hunt for longer. There were few rallies where driving for the win cost him the hole rally. And this year you don't see him fight to the bitter end.
Well why should he, because Loeb doesn't make any mistakes under pressure.
Or myabe team orders are the reason for that?
So, what if Suzuki wants him? Is he going to accept it or retire?
White Sauron
10th May 2007, 20:35
Looking at the pace of Suzuki on tests (watch enw video), Marcus' move to this team might be reasonable enough.
A.F.F.
10th May 2007, 23:20
I think Gronholm has the same situation that Mika Hakkinen had in his last year in F1. When Hakkinen decided to retire he did lost his speed. I'd imagine that when you've made up your mind to retire you don't want to take changes like you used to do.
Gronholm has been very "ungronholm" this year. He stops to push for the win when behind only 10-20 seconds and settles for the second place. Now, had he done that last season and the one before he could've been in the championship hunt for longer. There were few rallies where driving for the win cost him the hole rally. And this year you don't see him fight to the bitter end.
Well why should he, because Loeb doesn't make any mistakes under pressure.
It's the strategy they had succesfully year 2000 and should have had laterr on. To crab maximum points available. The low point in that strategy is like you said Mise. Loeb don't do but one mistake a year... or two... or three.
BamBam
11th May 2007, 07:33
I don't think it's got anything to do with cars or the drivers ability. Yes Loeb is very good but so is Gronny.
I think the problem is that Gronny actually believes Loeb is too good and that he can't beat him!!
He made the statement "Loeb is too fast, I can't catch him" after a rally in 2006 & I recall thinking then that he would never beat the guy if he himself believed he couldn't.
I think it's just a matter of self belief - he can beat (and has) Loeb, just needs to get his focus back on that instead of the losses. The harder you think it is, the harder it will be.
Yes, he does look tired & I've noticed in recent footage he no longer looks as though he's on a Sunday drive when behind the wheel but how much of this is stress - self inflicted stress?
grugsticles
11th May 2007, 08:19
So its not just me who has notied that?
I agree, Marcus looks as though he has the whole world on his sholders.
The frustration must be getting to him, hell its getting to me and Im only a spectator!
I don't think it's got anything to do with cars or the drivers ability. Yes Loeb is very good but so is Gronny.
I think the problem is that Gronny actually believes Loeb is too good and that he can't beat him!!
He made the statement "Loeb is too fast, I can't catch him" after a rally in 2006 & I recall thinking then that he would never beat the guy if he himself believed he couldn't.
Well Rautiainen said that in ARG at the first stages on saturday when they was the second car on the road, they braked much later than Loeb in every single place and did no misstake, still they lost many seconds, that means the difference comes at straights and that again means, that Citroen is a much faster car. It has nothing to do with beliving, it's facing the facts.
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