What would be the pecking order of the 2018 grid?

[Nitrodaze]

I think the 2018 season would be exciting and harder at the sharp end and for the midfield teams for a number of reasons. Firstly, teams are now only allowed to use three engines for the entire season. Renault and Honda powered teams would be very wary of this. But we expect Renault to improve their engine and its reliability by the start of 2018 season at Australia.

Secondly, seeing how close Ferrari were to the Mercedes in 2017, it is looking very tantalizingly likely that they would be even more closer in 2018. The lovely thing about 2017 was that Ferrari has tasted better success than they have been able to achieve since Kimi won their last driver title over a decade ago. The winning mentality within the team would be consolidated in 2018 without a doubt. But they have to be flawless to beat the mighty Mercedes in 2018. Vettel would be more determined to pip Hamilton to five driver world championship titles. But the Englishman is at the very top of his game but handicapped by the fact that he has to overcome internal rivalry before he can take the fight to Vettel that is guaranteed not to have anything in his way fighting for the drivers title.

Thirdly, Mclaren switching to Renault power unit could mix up the sharp end of the grid. I doubt they would bother Mercedes too much but they would certainly be a real bother for Redbull and Force India. There is an outside chance that both Redbull and Mclaren may also be a real bother for Ferrari.

Fourthly, with Paddy Lowe joining Williams in 2017, we can expect some transfer of Mercedes knowledge to the Williams team. Hence one can expect a better Williams car in 2018. You may say that Williams are likely to be directly in the mix with Redbull, Mclaren and possibly Force India forming the second group clear of the midfiled but behind the sharp end. If Paddy is successful at turning the Williams design issues around, Williams have the potential to step up the grid to their customary [2014/5] third place. Williams could be a real bother to Redbull Mclaren and Force India which may effectively cause the sharp end to break away from this group but energize this group to break away from what use to be the midfield. We may well return to a three tier grid of sharp end , midfield and back markers.

I wonder how things would shape out for Sauber with a 2018 Ferrari engine. They may well be the surprise of the 2018 season but my expectation is dampened somewhat because they do not have a driver of Werhlein's ability and experience in their 2018 car. My guess is they would do well but be very much in the third tier as usual.

Then there is Torro Rosso switching to the Honda power unit. While it was disappointing that the Mclaren-Honda partnership failed to deliver on their promise of jointly building a package that could be disruptive to the frontend of the grid, Honda has over the years attained some very valuable knowledge and experience of the F1 hybrid formula. I think, Honda would overcome their reliability issues in 2018 and begin to explore the true potential of their engine. Hence l would not be surprised if the Honda is on par or even better than the Renault engine in 2018. If James Key can turn out another excellent chassis for 2018, Torro Rooso may also be a delightful surprise in 2018. There is promise that they may well be in the same group as Redbull, Williams, Mclaren and Force India. But if we go by current 2017 performances, you would probably say, they would firmly be in the back marker group.

So how would one guess what the pecking order might be come Abu Dhabi 2018?

2018 Constructors World Champion - Mercedes [Strongly]
2018 Constructors Second place - Ferrari
2018 ConstructorsThird Place - ??? [Could be any of the following - Redbull, Mclaren or Williams]


2018 Driver World Champion - ???
[Vettel would be favorite as he would not have internal competition but we cannot rule out Hamilton if the Mercedes is better in 2018]
2018 Driver second place - ???
2018 Driver third place - ???

[jens]

* I think Mercedes will obviously be very good, 3 PU's per year will suit them (more than others). If pushed to answer, who will win the championships, I'd say Merc and Hamilton.

* Ferrari really impressed a lot this year, a far cry from the disappointment of 2016. But in crucial moments they have shown some weaknesses, like reliability issues or Vettel's Baku/Singapore. It would take an absolutely perfect storm for them to beat Mercedes. Can they do it? I can't answer, but I'd like to see another fascinating title fight.

* For Red Bull everything will be dependent on Renault, their power but also crucially reliability. Chassis is obviously very good and Max is such a fast driver he can easily take the fight to top dogs given opportunity. But will RBR have to use Honda PU in 2019? It could mean Renault wouldn't give them upgrades during 2018. Tough call how it's going to end.

* McLaren will get an engine upgrade. But it also means they will be thrown into a straight fight against the chassis of Red Bull and Renault with the same PU. With Alonso having claimed at each race weekend how they are "the fastest in corners", these comments will be put into stern test.

* Renault will be relieved to have a driver like Sainz for full season instead of Palmer. This fact alone will give them a points boost compared to 2017. However, they still have some work cut out to move forward. Reliability must improve a lot, and also chassis lags a long way behind Red Bull thus far, even if they have already got the legs on the rest of the midfield with Hulk often qualifying around 7th positions last season as long as his car actually worked.

* Force India is a solid and strong team with two good drivers. I expect more of the same old, but as you mention competition in midfield gets tougher. They'll have an immense job of fending off McLaren and Renault in the Constructors. If they can do it, hats off.

* Williams could have a good chassis, but I really don't expect a good constructors position, because it seems they are seriously handicapped by drivers. Stroll will most likely improve, but all too often he qualified a whole second (!) behind Massa and this points to fundamental lack of speed in my view. I can't tell much about the second driver, whoever it is going to be (Sirotkin?), but I suspect points will be lost by that guy too.

* Sauber, yes, gets a new engine. Will be interesting to see, what Leclerc can do. After dominating GP2/F2 as a rookie like no-one has done before, expectations are high. But as Vandoorne has shown, it can still take time for a rookie to get his speed up in F1. But, at least, the season should be better than 2017 with a better engine.

* Haas has had a solid if inconsistent chassis and solid if inconsistent drivers. Seems like a match made in heaven, lol. In all seriousness don't expect much change for them. Will get points here and there, but also prone to being nowhere.

* Toro Rosso indeed has a good chassis guy in James Key. It will be interesting to see, what STR can do with Honda in place of McLaren, but they face an uphill battle. Because STR's budget and infrastructure is not as good as McLaren's, and also they don't have a driver of Alonso's caliber to wring the car further up in the field. So if Honda has the worst PU, I don't think STR stands much of a chance considering even McLaren ended up 9th in WCC. But with Renault PU Toro Rosso could do a solid job for years and get points. If Honda could improve to Renault' level, this could continue. However, still, drivers need to step up a lot. Sainz could deliver loads of points (i.e 48 this year), but then Kvyat ended up with almost nothing. I fear STR may lack a driver, who has the edge to make the difference in wringing some points out of the car, but I may be proven wrong.

[driveace]

I feel Hamilton will be strong from the season start and Mercedes may have to turn the wick up a little bit more IF Ferrari show pace I expect the same of Bottas I feel most married drivers are on the side of safety a little more than a single guy. I expect Vettel to realize that to win the championship this coming year he needs to not get the "Red Mist" when things get heated and not squeeze other drivers to the point where his or his team mates car gets damage and retires .I expect the same from Kimi ,he knows his place ,and the moneys good too .I think Max will give RBR another year to improve and maybe he can expect a ferrari or Merc drive for 2019.Ricciardo I like whatever goes wrong ,he still smiles ,and I enjoy the boot drinking although Rosberg didnt.Perez and Ocon are solid competitors ,and Perez has been told what his job is and not to knock his team mate off And if he wants to be in front of Ocon then pass him dont moan to the team .Hope Williams can get a driver to ring the cars neck and get the best out of it ,Rob Smedley needs a good driver to coax round .I would love to see Sainz do well ,I feel Hulkinburg may qualify well but fades away .Would love to see HAAS improve ,but they need better drivers i feel I would love to see Alonso perform like he did 10 years ago ,but he needs the car to be competitive to deliver the goods Another low points season and he will move to pastures new .Where will Wherlin finish up ? I get the impression Merc didnt want him any more But he hasnt shined this year .I feel we need another Max Verstappen to arrive and set the world of F1 on fire ,as its losing the loyal followers that have followed the sport since Phil Hill and Richy Ginther ,and Wolfgang Von Trips were racing on the edge in the 60s And lets have it made easier for overtaking ,we get fed up of a driver catching another and then following for another 10 laps .Best of luck to Ross Brawn ,and even the pit lane girls may vanish too

[Starter]

I'm hoping that, with the new engine, McLaren can move up to be a top tier team again. Alonso is a little long in the tooth, but still has more talent than half the grid. More realistically, it's Mercedes again though. I agree with driveace about the Haas drivers. They definitely need an upgrade. While they were a good choice to get the team off the ground, that time has passed. Red Bull & Ferrari will be very close for second. Vettel is his own worst enemy, a great driver who can't seem to curb bad impulses. Red Bull could be the surprise in 2018. We'll have to wait and see how that works. Toro Rosso, what can you say. I don't see much in the way of points in their immediate future. In another time scoring a Honda power plant would have been a coup, not so much now.

driveace's comments about the general state of on track action is also well taken.

[Koz]

* McLaren will get an engine upgrade. But it also means they will be thrown into a straight fight against the chassis of Red Bull and Renault with the same PU. With Alonso having claimed at each race weekend how they are "the fastest in corners", these comments will be put into stern test.


They might have had a superb chassis this year, but that also had to do with the chassis and engine being designed in unison; especially before this year when they changed their engine layout, the "size zero" engine was supposed to have amazing dynamics for chassis guys to work with. Would they be able to have as good a chassis with a Renault engine?

[Nitrodaze]

* Williams could have a good chassis, but I really don't expect a good constructors position, because it seems they are seriously handicapped by drivers. Stroll will most likely improve, but all too often he qualified a whole second (!) behind Massa and this points to fundamental lack of speed in my view. I can't tell much about the second driver, whoever it is going to be (Sirotkin?), but I suspect points will be lost by that guy too.


If the theory that Paddy Lower would transfer some valuable knowledge to Williams were to hold up, and they build a better chassis than they currently have, then the selection of the second driver become all the more important as to where they may end up next season. Having two rookies for their lineup in 2018 may definitely be very costly point wise. Beside the cost of rookie mistakes and resulting car damage etc.

If they put someone with Hybrid experience and with at least three full season of recent F1 racing in the other seat, the Williams chance to mix it with the sharp end increases considerably. But if they send unseasoned boys to fight with the tigers at the sharp end, they would most certainly end up in the outskirts of the midfield as they did in 2016.

I hope they put an experienced driver in the second seat because we would get a better idea of Williams progress in 2018 from such a driver. I think Mercedes would unlikely make the same mistake that they did with their 2017 chassis next season. So the rare opportunity that put Stroll on the podium in 2017 may not arise in 2018, especially if Ferrari also overcome their reliability issues and improve also.

[Nitrodaze]

* Renault will be relieved to have a driver like Sainz for full season instead of Palmer. This fact alone will give them a points boost compared to 2017. However, they still have some work cut out to move forward. Reliability must improve a lot, and also chassis lags a long way behind Red Bull thus far, even if they have already got the legs on the rest of the midfield with Hulk often qualifying around 7th positions last season as long as his car actually worked.


The 2017 Renault package; chassis and engine did not excite in 2017. Hulkenburg did a fantastic job dragging the Renault into the top 10 regularly. But the car seemed always to be on its very ragged edge while doing so. They would have to build a completely new chassis for 2018 to make significant aerodynamic progress. And they have two main hurdles to clear on the engine front; to improve reliability and to narrow the BHP gap to the Mercedes and Ferrari engines.

But there is a silver lining for Renault since they have a real chance to overcome their problem when they start to exploit the knowledge of Marcin Budkowski the FIA inspector that Renault employed recently amidst criticism from other teams. Based on this premise, the Renault car of 2018 is very likely to be a considerably better car than the 2017 package. Renault may well be the dark horse of 2018. And with Sainz and Hulkenburg lineup, we may see Renault frequently on the podium in 2018.

Also, Renault seems set to provide most of the exciting controversy of the 2018 season. If they make massive improvements in their package, other teams are likely to make regular visits to the FIA compliants department. The odd lawsuits may also occur as interlectual property disputes may be a frequent feature of the 2018 season.

[jens]

They might have had a superb chassis this year, but that also had to do with the chassis and engine being designed in unison; especially before this year when they changed their engine layout, the "size zero" engine was supposed to have amazing dynamics for chassis guys to work with. Would they be able to have as good a chassis with a Renault engine?

Yes, integration is going to be a concern for McLaren. It looks like since 2015 till 2017 they have steadily managed to improve the chassis - which was pretty average in 2014, mind you. But the last three seasons they have been the works team with all geared around them. With Renault they are going to be a customer.

It doesn't look like being a Renault customer has hindered Red Bull much, but then again RBR has extensive experience with Renault and know all the ins and outs of their PU. McLaren needs to start from scratch.

[Nitrodaze]

Franz Tost thinks Torro Ross can fight for fourth in 2018. It would be egg in Mclaren's board faces if the Torro Rosso with the Honda engine turn out to be quicker than the Mclaren with the Renault engine. I would love to hear Alonso's radio comments should that be the case.

[[RMC]Pip]

It will be interesting whether Mercedes adapts the high-rake concept with its 2018 challenger. They have to address the weaknesses of the '17 car, they suffered particularly at low-speed circuits and sometimes they couldn't get the tires work.

[steveaki13]

Complete guesses of course but

1. Mercedes - Cannot see anyone beating them again. Ferrari I fear may wobble this season and drop back again.

2. Red Bull - I think they will develop a decent car before they go into the unknown in 19. That could spell the end of their front running

3. Ferrari - I think the car will be OK but more often than not maybe Red Bull will better them with their good lineup. Could be overturned by the reliability of Red Bull

4. Mclaren - Bit of a punt here but hope that Mclaren can get back towards the front. At times they looked good last year despite the engine in Fred's hands. A decent engine hopefully means they can race the top teams on occasion. Maybe slightly wishful thinking

5. Renault - Good line up and decent car moving on from last year and I can see them pipping Force India.

6. Force India- Big call from me to see them drop 4th to 6th. I think it will be close with Renault but Mclaren will jump them both

7. Williams - Sadly I see their decline continuing. Remember despite Maldonado in Spain, Williams generally had sunk right towards the bottom. 2014 and the rule changes allowed them to be second fastest car sometimes in 2014 but ever since they seem to fall backwards. I see that continuing

8. Haas. - Tough down here but I see Haas doing another solid job and beating Sauber again and the Toro Rosso guys with an expected dodgy engine. That will be key.

9. Toro Rosso - Honda are the key here. Get their best engine so far and Toro Rosso could be 8th and get it wrong and it could be 10th.

10. Sauber just do not have budget and know how right now and seem stuck in 10th too me. Only hope for the team is Honda have another mare and drop Toro Rosso 10th and Haas cannot handle the development race being so new.

I think the closest races this season will be for 8th, 9th and 10th. All these 3 could finish in any position

[Nitrodaze]

Complete guesses of course but

1. Mercedes - Cannot see anyone beating them again. Ferrari I fear may wobble this season and drop back again.

2. Red Bull - I think they will develop a decent car before they go into the unknown in 19. That could spell the end of their front running

3. Ferrari - I think the car will be OK but more often than not maybe Red Bull will better them with their good lineup. Could be overturned by the reliability of Red Bull

4. Mclaren - Bit of a punt here but hope that Mclaren can get back towards the front. At times they looked good last year despite the engine in Fred's hands. A decent engine hopefully means they can race the top teams on occasion. Maybe slightly wishful thinking

5. Renault - Good line up and decent car moving on from last year and I can see them pipping Force India.

6. Force India- Big call from me to see them drop 4th to 6th. I think it will be close with Renault but Mclaren will jump them both

7. Williams - Sadly I see their decline continuing. Remember despite Maldonado in Spain, Williams generally had sunk right towards the bottom. 2014 and the rule changes allowed them to be second fastest car sometimes in 2014 but ever since they seem to fall backwards. I see that continuing

8. Haas. - Tough down here but I see Haas doing another solid job and beating Sauber again and the Toro Rosso guys with an expected dodgy engine. That will be key.

9. Toro Rosso - Honda are the key here. Get their best engine so far and Toro Rosso could be 8th and get it wrong and it could be 10th.

10. Sauber just do not have budget and know how right now and seem stuck in 10th too me. Only hope for the team is Honda have another mare and drop Toro Rosso 10th and Haas cannot handle the development race being so new.

I think the closest races this season will be for 8th, 9th and 10th. All these 3 could finish in any position

After seeing the new Williams, l would be tempted to move them up the order a few places. It looks like a great car but they would be fighting with three other teams with at least one very experienced driver in them.

Mclaren has the double Would champion Alonso in it. With a good Renault engine in the Mclaren and with good reliability, l fail to see how Renault, Force India or Williams would beat the Mclaren this year. Renault has the Le Mans winner, Nico Hulkenburg [The Hulk] who is quick as anyone out there, hence l fail to see Williams beating Renault with two green drivers. Force India with a Mercedes engine and with the very experienced Sergio Perez and a highly talented Ocon who proved to be quite a revelation last year would not be easy for Williams either. That said, Force India is definitely beatable by Williams, if Williams are exemplary with their race strategies and pit stops. Mostly because Force India has a weakness due to the infighting between their drivers which would give Williams lots of opportunity.

There is no reason why the Williams pair cannot take the fight to the less experienced drivers in those teams, especially if this Williams car turns out to be quick and competitive relative to the cars in the midfield. This would be an interesting group of Stoffel Vandoorne, Estaban Ocon, Carlos Sainz and the Williams pair. Sort of makes for a possible entertaining prospect. The pecking order among this lot would express the true order of talent among these future big guns. At least by the end of the season, those that are likely to be world champions would stand out. At the moment, Sainz and Ocon stand out, l would like to add Stoffel to this list but he has not regularly got close enough to Alonso last years, so the jury is kind of out on this one.

[Nitrodaze]

I am not fully sure of the order of the top three spots at the mo. But l am feeling that the fight for fourth place is between Williams, Renault and Torro Rosso with Sauber looking like a strong outsider of this group. Force India or Force One is struggling for pace it seems. With all the distraction of name change and ownership change etc, the team seem distracted and not on their game.

Mclaren looks good to be in the mix with the group looking to fight for fourth. Unfortunately, they are also looking like a team that would be dogged by reliability through the season at the moment. But when they are on it, l fully expect them to be top of the pile of this group and possibly occasionally breaking into the top three group.

But this is still very much speculation. But l would not be surprised if this is the way it turns to be at Oz.

[Nitrodaze]

At the end of testing , this is how Ted Kravitz of Sky F1 called the pecking order based on the observations of the teams during Test Two:

1. Mercedes
2. Redbull [Appear 2nd at the close of test]
3. Ferrari [But may be 2nd if the oil issue is a red herring]
4. Renault
5. Mclaren
6. Haas
7. Force India
8. Torro Rosso
9. Williams
10. Sauber

I was optimisitic for Williams, but it seems their driver pairing is set to hurt them further this season. But it is a long season that is sure to be full of surprises and a Williams surprise would be most welcomed.

[Nitrodaze]

At the end of testing , this is how Ted Kravitz of Sky F1 called the pecking order based on the observations of the teams during Test Two:

1. Mercedes
2. Redbull [Appear 2nd at the close of test]
3. Ferrari [But may be 2nd if the oil issue is a red herring]
4. Renault
5. Mclaren
6. Haas
7. Force India
8. Torro Rosso
9. Williams
10. Sauber

I was optimisitic for Williams, but it seems their driver pairing is set to hurt them further this season. But it is a long season that is sure to be full of surprises and a Williams surprise would be most welcomed.

I have a feeling that Torro Rosso might be ahead of the Force India in the first half of the season. The Haas looked very strong during testing, hence, 5th place seem very likely, especially with Mclaren looking not so bulletproof going into the season.

Hulkenburg and Sainz are a very strong driver pairing. And the Renault seemed to be the best of the rest during testing. It is hard not to see them in any place other than 4th upwards.

To conclude, l expect Haas and Torro Rosso to upset the very tough midfield this season. The 2018 midfield is going to be the toughest part of the grid for a very long time. The teams that make it to the top of the midfield are the teams that did a great preparation for the season and also manage to have an exemplary race strategy and execution throughout the season. The pecking order of the midfield is more unpredictable than is apparent at this stage.

At the front, the signs suggest that Mercedes could run away with the title again as Ferrari seem likely to start the season on their back foot resolving issues. The Redbull unfortunately would not be fast enough to take a title challenge fight to Mercedes; (if Mercedes is on their game) with a Renault engine. But mercedes need to be at their best this year to have unchallenged path to their fifth double title. Because Ferrari and Redbull are close enough to punish them for any slip ups.

The end of the first half and all of the second half of the season is where Mercedes is likely to feel the pinch the most. The development war would be raging all through this period. Hence, we expect Ferrari to be on level terms with the Mercedes in this period. Redbull should be even closer during this period to hurt both Mercedes and Ferrari when either of these teams make any mistakes.

I think Mercedes would want Redbull to be closer, so as to take points away from Ferrari. This means Ferrari is in a very difficult position. They would be chasing Mercedes while watching their backs from the Redbull seeking to ursurp them from 2nd position.
In the fight at the front, Mercedes and Redbull are the teams least perturbed in the battle of this sharp end of the grid. Mercedes just need to focus on being as fast as possible to keep the Ferrari behind. Redbull do not have anyone close enough to bother them, hence all they need to do is focus on getting in the hair of the Ferrari.

Ferrari on the other hand is between a rock and a hard place.

[N4D13]

I am going to choose to pay little attention to the test results here and instead try to analyze what I think would be more logical

1. Mercedes. No contest.
2. Ferrari. Their chassis might not be that great, but they've still got more power than their chasers.
3. Red Bull.
4. McLaren. I suspect they have a very nice chassis, and may be closer to Red Bull than we expect. I would be surprised if they still kept having reliability issues come May.
5. Renault
6. Force India. I'm doing a bit of a guess here for these three next teams since I haven't been following the bottom half very closely. Still, considering how strong the FI car was in 2017, I don't think they will be far off the top half of the grid, if not completely in it by their own rights.
7. Haas
8. Williams. They don't seem to have a fast car or great drivers.
9. Toro Rosso. I don't think that Honda engine is going to be much better than last year. By the end of 2017 McLaren were finishing almost all of the races, but the engine was still terribly slow. After three disastrous years, I would be extremely surprised if Honda eventually got it right.
10. Sauber

[Nitrodaze]

Regardless of what we venture to predict the pecking order of 2018 to be, one thing is clear, this season is set to unfold one or more major historic outcome(s). Either a new five times driver and/or constructor world champion or a new driver world champion and a new arrangement for the F1 road show. The new arrangement would mostly define what we call F1 from 2021 onwards. We expect a fair distribution of prize money to the lower teams and possibly a total new car architecture.

But there is also the small potential that F1 may lose one or two big teams. Similarly, we may end up with a larger grid with a few more teams joining for the 2021 season onwards. Imagine a thirty cars grid lineup for the lights to go off on race day. Wow

[Firstgear]

..............Either a new five times driver and/or constructor world champion or a new driver world champion
Writing off Alonso already? 30 car grid would be nice.

[airshifter]

Writing off Alonso already? 30 car grid would be nice.

Writing off Kimi so early? :laugh:

Though I suspect Nitrodaze is correct, Alonso would have a shot if the right car was there. Sadly I don't think Kimi would be given the chance unless he completely dominated Seb, and then only maybe.

[Nitrodaze]

Writing off Kimi so early? :laugh:

Though I suspect Nitrodaze is correct, Alonso would have a shot if the right car was there. Sadly I don't think Kimi would be given the chance unless he completely dominated Seb, and then only maybe.

Alonso or Kimi winning another WDC would not be a major occurrence such as Verstapenn or Ricciado winning their first WDC or Hamiliton or Vettel winning their fifth WDC. Hence, l have not written them off as such. I just focussed on what could be a major event for the history books.

[Koz]

So much for that fantastic McLaren chassis.

At this point, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they aren't on the podium this year either. McLaren have become Williams.

[N4D13]

So much for that fantastic McLaren chassis.

At this point, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they aren't on the podium this year either. McLaren have become Williams.
Alonso is still quite bullish about Macca's prospects. Let's wait and see, but they do have a habit of getting a lot better as the season goes on. I would be surprised if they hadn't reached Haas level or even better come Barcelona.

[Big Ben]

Alonso or Kimi winning another WDC would not be a major occurrence such as Verstapenn or Ricciado winning their first WDC or Hamiliton or Vettel winning their fifth WDC. Hence, l have not written them off as such. I just focussed on what could be a major event for the history books.

Maybe it's my lack of excitement for f1 but for some reason I don't feel either's fifth wdc would be that much of an historical event. They had it easier than others before. They landed from very young ages in very good teams and had the benefit of long spells of driving dominant cars. I'll just roll my eyes when i hear about how Hamilton set some new world record.

[N4D13]

As a quick recap from quali, this seems to be the pecking order:

1. Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull
4. Haas
5. Renault
6. McLaren
7. Force India
8. Williams
9. Toro Rosso
10. Sauber

Pretty much what most of us expected, except from the Haas performance, which is a bit better than we predicted; and maybe McLaren being a tad worse than we expected. Let's see how it goes tomorrow in the race.

[Koz]

Alonso is still quite bullish about Macca's prospects.

Sadly, I think he's just in denial now.

[Nitrodaze]

Sadly, I think he's just in denial now.

Alonso may have a point after putting the Mclaren ahead of both Renault. But l think they are behind the Haas. Mclaren and Haas are top of the midfield. I expect to see some great inter team racing between these two teams as they fight for the dominance of the midfield.

[N4D13]

Alonso may have point after putting the Mclaren ahead of both Renault. But l think they are behind the Haas. Mclaren and Haas are top of the midfield. I expect to see some great inter team racing between these two teams as they fight for the dominance of the midfield.
Well, at least in Melbourne -which is a fairly odd circuit, anyway-, Haas was clearly ahead of McLaren and Macca was pretty much even with Renault; even if they were ahead, it was only very slightly. Keep in mind, for instance, that Vandoorne couldn't get close to Hülkenberg after he was gifted a position due to the VSC timing. I don't think there's much to choose between them.

That said, I'd insist on that Melbourne is a very particular track and not necessarily representative of a car's average performance during the season. Bahrain and particularly China should be able to give us a much clearer view.

[Nitrodaze]

Well, at least in Melbourne -which is a fairly odd circuit, anyway-, Haas was clearly ahead of McLaren and Macca was pretty much even with Renault; even if they were ahead, it was only very slightly. Keep in mind, for instance, that Vandoorne couldn't get close to Hülkenberg after he was gifted a position due to the VSC timing. I don't think there's much to choose between them.

That said, I'd insist on that Melbourne is a very particular track and not necessarily representative of a car's average performance during the season. Bahrain and particularly China should be able to give us a much clearer view.

I would not read too much into Stoffel. not being able to pass Hulkenburg. Verstapenn struggled to pass Alonso in the other Mclaren. I take your point though. We would be able to properly judge what the state of affairs is when get to China l think. That is a track where loads of overtaking is possible. Hence the grid should shake down to the actual pecking order at this stage of the season.

That said, l am super impressed with the Haas.

[Big Ben]

That said, l am super impressed with the Haas.

I am more impressed by last year's Ferrari

[Nitrodaze]

i am more impressed by last year's ferrari

lol :-)