Wrc2 2018

[Rally Power]

2017 was WRC revamp year and next year it seems will be WRC2 turn. Besides Skoda and MSport, Hyundai is joining the series and Proton can do the same during the season. Most likely, Citroen will also run officially the C3 after homologation and even the new Polo is expected to make his series debut. Lots of promising young guys behind the wheel, alongside some experienced drivers returning to the series. So far, how much can we tell/guess?

[AnttiL]

Also, no mandatory events

[Sulland]

With the current presscoverage of the 2nd echelon of the championship from WRC TV, radio and website many drivers are struggeling to find sponsors wanting to back them. The promotor need to give them more to sell. Often the competition in R5 is more even, and more exiting than in WRCars.

I think BRC is the best option if you think press per euro for 2018.
Eurosport have a good product in ERC, but they need to put more into it, so that become european champion means something. For people to afford themfull series, they need to cut the 3 island rallies. Too expensive. Focus on rallies in north/ central Europe, that will gather most cars and most fans.

[Andre Oliveira]

Pity that Red Bull TV coverage to WRC2, WRC3 and JWRC was inexistent.

[Essaj]

Being ERC champion is still pretty worthless. Most of the WRC2 crews wants to one day to become world champions and for that you need to prove yourself at WRC rounds and even then you will need a lot of luck and/or money to have change at highest level. Driving in BRC or ERC will always be cheaper but you won't be a world champion that way.

[PLuto]

Being ERC champion is still pretty worthless. Most of the WRC2 crews wants to one day to become world champions and for that you need to prove yourself at WRC rounds and even then you will need a lot of luck and/or money to have change at highest level. Driving in BRC or ERC will always be cheaper but you won't be a world champion that way.

Thats not correct. To be a world champion, you must firstly prove your speed and your driving skills. And it is better to use a ladder national championship-ERC-WRC than going directly to WRC. Primary you must impress team/sponsor/federation with your skills...

[Essaj]

Thats not correct. To be a world champion, you must firstly prove your speed and your driving skills. And it is better to use a ladder national championship-ERC-WRC than going directly to WRC. Primary you must impress team/sponsor/federation with your skills...

Of course you need to start somewhere else but driving many years in ERC etc won't get you anywhere. Even Pontus Tidemand WRC2 champion seems to struggle finding WRC seat for next year.
Do you think that any team is legit even thinking about signing Kajto 3 time ERC champ over any successful WRC2 driver like Tidemand, Suninen, Camilli etc or any upcoming driver like Veiby or Rovanpera?
Lower tier championships helps you to prove managers and sponsors to spend more money on to you but at the end of the day you need to be successful at world championship level to get backing for a team to sign you for a WRC season (or a lot of money) and it's fact.
I can't see any ERC champ to steal WRC drive from WRC2 driver any day soon.

Tell me a one reason why would anyone dreaming about WRC championship would drive ERC season over WRC2 one if they had a change to do one of them?

[AnttiL]

Often the competition in R5 is more even, and more exiting than in WRCars.

Disagreed. Very often the WRC2 top five is separated by closer to 10 minutes by the end of day 2. There's too much of level differences within the entries. Some are very experienced and professional, some are on a tighter budget or less experienced.

[PLuto]

Of course you need to start somewhere else but driving many years in ERC etc won't get you anywhere. Even Pontus Tidemand WRC2 champion seems to struggle finding WRC seat for next year.
Do you think that any team is legit even thinking about signing Kajto 3 time ERC champ over any successful WRC2 driver like Tidemand, Suninen, Camilli etc or any upcoming driver like Veiby or Rovanpera?
Lower tier championships helps you to prove managers and sponsors to spend more money on to you but at the end of the day you need to be successful at world championship level to get backing for a team to sign you for a WRC season (or a lot of money) and it's fact.
I can't see any ERC champ to steal WRC drive from WRC2 driver any day soon.

Tell me a one reason why would anyone dreaming about WRC championship would drive ERC season over WRC2 one if they had a change to do one of them?

To be WRC2 champion is almost same "nothing" like ERC champion in terms of finding WRC seat for next year. Jan Kopecky is one of the best drivers in WRC2 and didnt won the championship mainly because his team doesnt want, but he has almost same chances to get WRC seat like Kajetan. For teams is more important to show their speed and skills and it is not so important in which championship...

[AnttiL]

We must also remember that Kopecky is 35 years old and has already been a WRC driver many years ago. Could it be that the teams are more interested in new talents for years to come?

WRC2 or SWRC before that has brought Ott Tänak, Juho Hänninen, Craig Breen, Esapekka Lappi and Teemu Suninen into WRC seats. During the same years, ERC hasn't produced anyone to the WRC outside the drivers on that list.

[Rally Power]

Still plenty of question marks, but gathering WRC2 news and rumours of the forum and from the net (most recent is Ucci in a 208 backed by Pirelli), next year field could look like this:

Fabia: Tidemand; Veiby; Rovanpera; Nordgen; Guerra; Pieniazek; ….
Fiesta: Ostberg; Camilli; Kajetanowicz; Bakkerud; Solans; Loubet; Greensmith; Ciamin; Abbring; Arai; Katsuta; Heller; ....
i20: Paddon; Huttunen; Lim; Andolfi; ….
DS3/C3: Lefebvre; Bonato; Bergkvist; ….
208: Andreucci; ….
Iriz: Mellors; ….
Polo: ….

[AnttiL]

You reckon Paddon's more likely to drive in WRC2 than Suninen?

[Sub_Skoda]

Still plenty of question marks, but gathering WRC2 news and rumours of the forum and from the net (most recent is Ucci in a 208 backed by Pirelli), next year field could look like this:

Fabia: Tidemand; Veiby; Rovanpera; Nordgen; Guerra; Pieniazek; ….
Fiesta: Ostberg; Camilli; Kajetanowicz; Bakkerud; Solans; Loubet; Greensmith; Ciamin; Abbring; Arai; Katsuta; Heller; ....
i20: Paddon; Huttunen; Lim; Andolfi; ….
DS3/C3: Lefebvre; Bonato; Bergkvist; ….
208: Andreucci; ….
Iriz: Mellors; ….
Polo: ….

Paddon?? Haha ! And Ostberg too? And Lefebvre?
Well, rumours are irrational sometimes.

[AnttiL]

Paddon?? Haha ! And Ostberg too? And Lefebvre?
Well, rumours are irrational sometimes.

Østberg is considering it https://rallysportmag.com/privateer-mads-ostberg-crossroads/
Lefebvre has tested the C3 R5 and it's rumored on twitter that he'll be dropped from the WRC1 squad for next year, and Citroen has said they will have "a high profile driver" in the wheel of the C3 R5 https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/129852/citroen-starting-from-scratch-with-wrc2-car
Paddon, I haven't heard anything about

[Rally Power]

You reckon Paddon's more likely to drive in WRC2 than Suninen?

Don’t shoot the messager…I’ve just gathered the info available on different threads of the forum and other rally sites/pages.

Btw, after Evans ‘WRC2 treatment’ during 2016, seeing top drivers stepping down to WRC2 isn’t a shame anymore, quite the opposite.

[PLuto]

We must also remember that Kopecky is 35 years old and has already been a WRC driver many years ago. Could it be that the teams are more interested in new talents for years to come?

WRC2 or SWRC before that has brought Ott Tänak, Juho Hänninen, Craig Breen, Esapekka Lappi and Teemu Suninen into WRC seats. During the same years, ERC hasn't produced anyone to the WRC outside the drivers on that list.

Except Sunninen, all this mentioned drivers were going through IRC/ERC and then moved to WRC. Same like lot of other drivers. And some drivers which were going directly to WRC needed to make step back (ERC/IRC or national championships) to re-start their careers (for example Paddon, Tänak, Evans, Mikkelsen)...

[AnttiL]

Except Sunninen, all this mentioned drivers were going through IRC/ERC and then moved to WRC. Same like lot of other drivers. And some drivers which were going directly to WRC needed to make step back (ERC/IRC or national championships) to re-start their careers (for example Paddon, Tänak, Evans, Mikkelsen)...

I looked through the top5 of the last 10 ERC seasons and the only names later seen in WRC or WRC2 were Hänninen, Breen and Lappi.

[RS]

I looked through the top5 of the last 10 ERC seasons and the only names later seen in WRC or WRC2 were Hänninen, Breen and Lappi.

ERC now is basically what IRC was. So you can include Neuville, Meeke and Mikelssen too.

[ESTR]

Why not merge WRC2 and ERC? and shut down WRC3 - total nonsense...

[Mirek]

I looked through the top5 of the last 10 ERC seasons and the only names later seen in WRC or WRC2 were Hänninen, Breen and Lappi.

As RS wrote. You shall go after IRC/ERC. ERC before the merge with IRC was pretty much dead and after the merge it was basically rebranded IRC.

[Mirek]

Why not merge WRC2 and ERC?

That would help exactly nothing, quite the opposite.

[electroliquid]

This situation between ERC and WRC2 may sort out itself, when there will be more works/semiworks teams in WRC2, so guys like Kramer, realise that it's almost impossible to challenge works teams. Question remains - how to attract those who can't/won't do WRC2 to ERC. Maybe some support or financial backing from FIA/Eurosport (or whoever pays money for U27/U28 winners) for ERT or national champions. Maybe somehow attract dealership backed teams (New R4 may help). Also maybe Opel R5 and Mitsubishi R5 could be good, but again there is FIA behind all this, and it won't happen.
One of many fascinating thing about rally is that anyone, who can afford it, can compete anywhere he/she wants. You won't see it in most of other sports.

[Rally Power]

Maybe somehow attract dealership backed teams (New R4 may help). Also maybe Opel R5 and Mitsubishi R5 could be good, but again there is FIA behind all this, and it won't happen.


+1; FIA could be less strict in the European WRC events and rally series, like they are in other continents.

[janvanvurpa]

I looked through the top5 of the last 10 ERC seasons and the only names later seen in WRC or WRC2 were Hänninen, Breen and Lappi.

This is my impression...and it makes it seem that all the other classes and cars aside from the World rally Cars are mainly money-grabs from the teams...In other words nobody really gives a s**t about the classes or if Joe Bloggs does a 2nd in class and 65th overall..

Class system repeated in sport?

[giu canbera]

Wouldnt be cheaper to allow R4, AP4 and MaxiRally cars for ERC and WRC2 while having R5 cars for WRC? I know its not a real TOP CLASS car compared to current wrc cars... But it could attract more privateers and costumer programs.. I think.
I still think it could be a good program to have manufacturers building R5 cars and selling for costumer teams to race whatever they want... kinda like TCR did.
WTCC is shutting its TC1 cars to run TCR cars next year. Its not THE BEST THING EVER, but it could attract lots of entries and improve competition.
IDK.. it seems that these F1 cars, MotoGP bikes, WRC top cars, WTCC cars, LMP1 are getting too expensive to make sense and things are starting to change.
WTCC changed.. The LMP1 Its already changing, with chassis and engine makers building and selling.
I dont see how WRC could avoid this direction

[Mirek]

No, it's not better because the top class is never cheap. That's the way of thinking which has been again and again proven wrong. The top level is always expensive from the principle - even if it's wooden bikes it's expensive when you develop the best in the world. Making R5 the top class would only make R5 more expensive not the WRC reasonably cheaper.

Simply don't repair what is not broken. For God's sake when we finally have something which works give it time and don't change it again. R5 do work and they work very well. In fact there is no other similarly successful concept in the rallying (except maybe S2000 if they were not killed at their popularity peak by the change of the rules).

[Rallyper]

However I do think that WRC2 should be untouched in the current form. BUT, the ERC should lighten up which classes should be allowed, just in the mission to sort out the fast young guys, whom in the future could be runners up for WRC2, after having some of the needed experiences from ERC.

[Rally Power]

WTCC changed.. The LMP1 Its already changing, with chassis and engine makers building and selling. I dont see how WRC could avoid this direction

‘17 WRC cars were the right bet to revamp WRC. The pinnacle rally series needs to have the most developed and spectacular rally cars around; for sure they are expensive, but overall they’re using the same tech of the previous ones, making the upgrading affordable for manus.

That wasn’t the case of LMP1 hybrid cars; FIA neglected the costs of developing a totally new racing technology and eventually manus weren’t able to handle them.

Anyway, each category has his life cycles; costs tend to escalate through the years and the need for a cheaper alternative only comes when the series aren’t able to provide a proper return for the investment. That’s WTCC current case.

[giu canbera]

No, it's not better because the top class is never cheap. That's the way of thinking which has been again and again proven wrong. The top level is always expensive from the principle

Agree... but look what is happening. LMP1, WTCC, DTM... you cant be that expensive anymore.
Just saying. Long live to the current WRC format... but they gotta have a backup plan if something happens... I'd suggest the R5
Cheers

[Tarmop]

Naah, the biggest issue is that internal combustion engines are considered dinosaurs, add the money part and there`s no point in that for many manufacturers. Especially in this eco-world, where there are more and more strict pollution standards. From 2020 every engine that produces more CO2 from "some amount", is fined...big problem among many manufacturers as they don`t have that kind of an engine yet, not to mention the scandals active now.

[Watson]

We've discussed R5 for WRC in different threads before. We always came to the conclusion that most of us here hate the idea. Let's leave it at that.

[Mirek]

However I do think that WRC2 should be untouched in the current form. BUT, the ERC should lighten up which classes should be allowed, just in the mission to sort out the fast young guys, whom in the future could be runners up for WRC2, after having some of the needed experiences from ERC.

Let's be realistic. Who would do an ERC campaign in some locally homologated car which is not competitive against the R5? I'm willing to bet that nobody. Maybe in the first year one or two crews could appear but in the second year there would be nobody.

[Rallyper]

Let's be realistic. Who would do an ERC campaign in some locally homologated car which is not competitive against the R5? I'm willing to bet that nobody. Maybe in the first year one or two crews could appear but in the second year there would be nobody.

Not participating in same class of course. But get young guns from each organizer country to maybe shine. And maybe get the eyes from Mr teambosses. Makes talent not money be the factor. Or more of.
Try to have helicopter perspective, Mirek. Be positive. ;)

[Mirek]

To prove You have talent You can do JERC. It's cheaper than any 4WD car and it actually works as a good competition and a functional ladder up.

ERC2 with gr.N car is also cheap to do. Likely cheaper than what You propose but there has been something like 3 regulars in last couple of seasons. This is really not the way.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/motorsportskoda/status/940508600983871488

Skoda announcing 2018 drivers today

[Allez Andruet]

So it's Kalle Rovanperä and Juuso Nordgren!

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/skodafabiar5/status/940572537951531015

Not just them, but all of Kopecky, Tidemand, Veiby, Nordgren and Rovanperä.

[Allez Andruet]

https://twitter.com/skodafabiar5/status/940572537951531015

Not just them, but all of Kopecky, Tidemand, Veiby, Nordgren and Rovanperä.

Oh yes, the first Finnish news only mentioned them, but yes, that's quite a team.

[AnttiL]

Earlier there was a crazy rumor of Kopecky going to Hyundai, but surely it sounded weird...hard to imagine him on any other brand (I know he's driven other cars years ago)

[dimviii]

ŠKODA FABIA R5‏*
Special "national" livery of Jan #Kopecký / Pavel #Dresler car for 2018 #Czech #Rally Championship campaign


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ2YgyxWkAAzhY9.jpg

[AnttiL]

I didn't realize earlier, but removing mandatory WRC2 events is a benefit for Rovanperä, as he can now challenge for the title with the 6-7 events he can do next year. Not saying he's yet able to beat Tidemand or Kopecky or even Veiby, but it must give motivation.

EDIT: If I'm correct Kalle can drive in Mexico, Argentina and Finland before turning 18, and after that Spain, Wales and Australia. That's only six events though, whereas a seventh could be spared for a bad result.

[Essaj]

When can we start betting for WRC 2 champ for 2018, I know who to pick now ;)

[electroliquid]

I didn't realize earlier, but removing mandatory WRC2 events is a benefit for Rovanperä, as he can now challenge for the title with the 6-7 events he can do next year. Not saying he's yet able to beat Tidemand or Kopecky or even Veiby, but it must give motivation.

EDIT: If I'm correct Kalle can drive in Mexico, Argentina and Finland before turning 18, and after that Spain, Wales and Australia. That's only six events though, whereas a seventh could be spared for a bad result.

Do we know other Škoda driver's programs for 2018?

[AnttiL]

Also, despite the rumors there's Michelin logos on Kalle's overalls, not Pirelli.

[AnttiL]

http://www.pontustidemand.se/tidemand-continues-with-skoda/

Tidemand says he starts the season with Skoda. I can't help but see the emphasis on the word start. Maybe he continues with the Polo R5 in the autumn?

[Tarmop]

There are talks about Tidemand doing (planning to do would be more precise) 3 with Fiesta WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good luck to the rest taking on Škoda in 2018 !!

[Simmi]

http://www.pontustidemand.se/tidemand-continues-with-skoda/

Tidemand says he starts the season with Skoda. I can't help but see the emphasis on the word start. Maybe he continues with the Polo R5 in the autumn?

Yeah I noticed this too. Feels like Skoda have too many drivers, so a partial season for Tidemand could make sense I guess.

[AnttiL]

Yeah I noticed this too. Feels like Skoda have too many drivers, so a partial season for Tidemand could make sense I guess.

A WRC2 season is 7 events per driver, so they can rotate. Most likely 2-3 drivers per rally.

[pantealex]

I didn't realize earlier, but removing mandatory WRC2 events is a benefit for Rovanperä, as he can now challenge for the title with the 6-7 events he can do next year. Not saying he's yet able to beat Tidemand or Kopecky or even Veiby, but it must give motivation.

EDIT: If I'm correct Kalle can drive in Mexico, Argentina and Finland before turning 18, and after that Spain, Wales and Australia. That's only six events though, whereas a seventh could be spared for a bad result.

Well Turkey is new event, has someone checked their laws?

ps. It´s Wales, Spain and Australia in that order.

[pantealex]

http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/rovanperan-kausi-kaynnistyy-monte-carlosta-gardemeisterin-tallin-kalustolla/

Kalle is going to Monte with Gardemaister Skoda, will also do Corsica.
Total over 10 rallies next year.
Link is in Finnish, sorry.

[Essaj]

http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/rovanperan-kausi-kaynnistyy-monte-carlosta-gardemeisterin-tallin-kalustolla/

Kalle is going to Monte with Gardemaister Skoda, will also do Corsica.
Total over 10 rallies next year.
Link is in Finnish, sorry.

Also no BRC and most likely split APRC season with Juuso Nordgren

[AnttiL]

http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/rovanperan-kausi-kaynnistyy-monte-carlosta-gardemeisterin-tallin-kalustolla/

Kalle is going to Monte with Gardemaister Skoda, will also do Corsica.
Total over 10 rallies next year.
Link is in Finnish, sorry.

Jouhki says Mexico and Argentina are quite confirmed, then Finland, Wales and Catalunya, possibly also Tour de Corse. And like said, to Monte with TGS Skoda Fabia R5, possibly another event is also with TGS since Skoda's program is not confirmed yet. And some national tarmac practice event in Italy or France before TDC.

[pucky54]

I didn't realize earlier, but removing mandatory WRC2 events is a benefit for Rovanperä, as he can now challenge for the title with the 6-7 events he can do next year. Not saying he's yet able to beat Tidemand or Kopecky or even Veiby, but it must give motivation.

EDIT: If I'm correct Kalle can drive in Mexico, Argentina and Finland before turning 18, and after that Spain, Wales and Australia. That's only six events though, whereas a seventh could be spared for a bad result.

He is also allowed to drive in Germany...

[AnttiL]

Well Turkey is new event, has someone checked their laws?

18

[Sub_Skoda]

18

Like France. So i don't understand why Jouhki talks about MC and TDC.

[RICARDO75]

Like France. So i don't understand why Jouhki talks about MC and TDC.

He could drive only on stages. Codriver can do the rest

[AnttiL]

He is also allowed to drive in Germany...

18 also for Germany


He could drive only on stages. Codriver can do the rest

They did that in Finland earlier this year, but still weren't allowed to take part in Rally Finland. But then again, he didn't have a license back then... This is truly complicated. If they could pick any country, why would they take the trouble to go to Mexico and Argentina instead of for example Sweden? They must have a some sort of waiver for France, but not the other countries.

[Allez Andruet]

Jouhki says Mexico and Argentina are quite confirmed, then Finland, Wales and Catalunya, possibly also Tour de Corse. And like said, to Monte with TGS Skoda Fabia R5, possibly another event is also with TGS since Skoda's program is not confirmed yet. And some national tarmac practice event in Italy or France before TDC.

Jouhki also says that "apparently Kalle ja Juuso will split the APC rallies between them", which to me sounds like Veiby will contest most of the WRC2 program (which probably makes sense from Skoda's point of view given his experience in WRC events). And especially for Nordgren the APC would be a good chance to get more R5 and 4WD experience.

[Essaj]

He could drive only on stages. Codriver can do the rest

I doubt that Kalle would ever want to do that again, it's a way too big of a disadvantage.

[Tarmop]

Yes, that would also mean that during recce his codriver would be driving...not something clever in that level.

[JUF]

18 also for Germany pucky54 is right. In Germany you are allowed to obtain a driving license at 17 years of age. But I´m not sure if this implicates that foreigners are allowed to drive at this age as well.

[Mirek]

Sometimes it's possible to get an exception. For example here in CZ it's 18 limit but some drivers started on Barum at the age of 17 (Klausz, Kruuda at least).

[SubaruNorway]

Yes, that would also mean that during recce his codriver would be driving...not something clever in that level.

You can have a third person in the car on the recce, Petter drives for Oliver in Latvia.

[ESTR]

You can have a third person in the car on the recce, Petter drives for Oliver in Latvia.

Haha why Petter don't drive races too instead of Oli... Just a joke.

[Essaj]

You can have a third person in the car on the recce, Petter drives for Oliver in Latvia.

And that's what Kalle, Harri and Risto did. How else are you suppose to recce without driver driving himself? Driver writes his own notes? lol

[Tarmop]

Hah, the best place to make a mistake with one word.:D Codriver as co-passenger was the word i meant. Still, not THE drivers point of view 100%. Driving in a factroy team and top level (ok, almost) quite risky... maybe even pointless waste.

[Rally Power]

However I do think that WRC2 should be untouched in the current form. BUT, the ERC should lighten up which classes should be allowed, just in the mission to sort out the fast young guys, whom in the future could be runners up for WRC2, after having some of the needed experiences from ERC.

Hopefully R4 cars will give a help; even if they’ll not be cheap to buy, they seem affordable to run (and rent) and competitive enough for young drivers starting an international career.

[PLuto]

Earlier there was a crazy rumor of Kopecky going to Hyundai, but surely it sounded weird...hard to imagine him on any other brand (I know he's driven other cars years ago)

When they signed Mikkelsen, it was almost sure this will not happen...

[Watson]

When they signed Mikkelsen, it was almost sure this will not happen...

But that was mostly down to Citroen being too obsessed with signing Ogier and being too toothless in the end as well as Hyundai trying to get back in the title race with a hail mary operation. Also Mikkelsen is just too good of a driver not to be picked up by anyone.

[AnttiL]

When they signed Mikkelsen, it was almost sure this will not happen...

I thought Kopecky would have driven a Hyundai R5

[Simmi]

I thought Kopecky would have driven a Hyundai R5

I think PLuto is possibily referring to the fact that their wage bill went up significantly when they signed Andreas.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Some people have suggested Kalle Rovanpera could do both Rally Argentina 26th-29th April and APRC round in New Zealand 4th-6th May. Hypothetically possible but would be a very big ask with the travel required between Argentina finish and start of recce in NZ.
Here is what the lucky European nominated by Skoda to do APRC round in NZ can enjoy https://youtu.be/sPTJM60buwE

[pantealex]

I think 2018 WRC2 will actually start from Portugal, rallies before that are all a bit special.

Sardinia and Finland will gather much more entries than 2017 (and Australia of course ;) )

[AnttiL]

I think 2018 WRC2 will actually start from Portugal, rallies before that are all a bit special.

Sardinia and Finland will gather much more entries than 2017 (and Australia of course ;) )

Well, if the title is decided before Australia no one may not go there anymore. Hopefully both Kalle and Juuso get to do Finland. And Veiby, as he was pretty dominant this year before his crash.

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ostberg-may-drop-back-to-wrc2-for-2018/

Østberg might also be doing WRC2. When he says he wants to be sure he's winning if he does WRC2, it sounds to me Adapta is going to have to buy a brand new Skoda Fabia...

[pucky54]

pucky54 is right. In Germany you are allowed to obtain a driving license at 17 years of age. But I´m not sure if this implicates that foreigners are allowed to drive at this age as well.

EU driving license is valid in Germany no matter how old you are

[dupanton]

EU driving license is valid in Germany no matter how old you are

That is one think, but the national federation must also agree. Like in Belgium, there is a problem with insurance when the driver is not 18 yet.

[AnttiL]

EU driving license is valid in Germany no matter how old you are

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/country/germany/


Visitors riding or driving in Germany must have reached the minimum age required to drive/ride a vehicle of equivalent category even if they are qualified to drive at a lower age in their country of residence.

A foreign driving licence does not entitle the holder to drive/ride a motor vehicle in Germany until the age of 18yrs old.

And I'm pretty sure it's the same in every country in question.

[Andre Oliveira]

Gustavo Saba en #RallyMas: "El próximo año seguro volvemos a correr el sudamericano de rally, también estamos analizando correr 4 fechas del mundial WRC 2, serian México, Argentina, Portugal e Italia".
#1120AM #LaRadioOficialdelRally

[pantealex]

Old news but belongs this threat:
http://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2017/challengeprogram_rally/1124-01.html

5 WRC2 events for Hiroki Arai and Takamoto Katsuta

Sweden
Corsica
Portugal
Sardinia
Finland

[AnttiL]

Apparently Rally Mexico has confirmed that Kalle Rovanperä is allowed to take part in the event https://twitter.com/KaiTarkiainen/status/941594261480509440

[dupanton]

Kevin Abbring will certainly compete in Monte Carlo and Sweden, probably in Portugal as well. He is looking for further funding (also from Malcom Wilson) to do Germany and Catalunya.

[trifonvl]

Marquito Bulacia from Bolivia will participate in six round of wrc2 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/MarquitoBulacia/photos/a.247924688942609.1073741828.247571668977911/480334452368297/?type=3&theater

[Watson]

Marquito Bulacia from Bolivia will participate in six round of wrc2 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/MarquitoBulacia/photos/a.247924688942609.1073741828.247571668977911/480334452368297/?type=3&theater

I just looked him up. He's only 17 like Rovanpera. It would be good to see some non-European prospects. I also hope at least one of the Japanese guys gets some WRC outings. It can only be good for the sport to get more people excited around the globe.

[AnttiL]

I just looked him up. He's only 17 like Rovanpera.

Rovanperä and Bulacia both did the Adriatico and San Marino rallies last year. Rovanperä was constantly faster.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/36537-rally-adriatico-2017/1465201/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/36539-rally-san-marino-2017/1515572/

[PLuto]

Marquito Bulacia from Bolivia will participate in six round of wrc2 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/MarquitoBulacia/photos/a.247924688942609.1073741828.247571668977911/480334452368297/?type=3&theater

Too early in WRC...

[Essaj]

Too early in WRC...

What should he do then? drive R5 in Bolivia where he already wins with Corolla?
Of course he should drive WRC2 events if he has change to do so.

[PLuto]

What should he do then? drive R5 in Bolivia where he already wins with Corolla?
Of course he should drive WRC2 events if he has change to do so.

I think he should do step by step. Continue in some national championship on tarmac or gravel (or mixture) - Italy again, UK, France, there is lot of possibilities. Or move to ERC. But going directly to WRC2 is not the best way, according to my opinion. I think it is too early also for Rovanpera.

[Essaj]

I think he should do step by step. Continue in some national championship on tarmac or gravel (or mixture) - Italy again, UK, France, there is lot of possibilities. Or move to ERC. But going directly to WRC2 is not the best way, according to my opinion. I think it is too early also for Rovanpera.

Flying back and forth between Bolivia and Europe for a 100km's of national rally must be really fun.
What is he or Kalle losing when they start doing WRC rallies soon as they can? They might not be winning the rallies or even finishing top-10 but so what? they get 3 times the kilometers compared to national rallies + experience from the rallies that matter.
Also just like Kalle, Marco is still 17, which ERC rallies they are allowed to take part except Latvia? and they will be both 18 by then.

[electroliquid]

I think he should do step by step. Continue in some national championship on tarmac or gravel (or mixture) - Italy again, UK, France, there is lot of possibilities. Or move to ERC. But going directly to WRC2 is not the best way, according to my opinion. I think it is too early also for Rovanpera.

I agree about Marco, he has not so much experience - only two seasons did, Kalle done 4 season, drive 2 WRC and basically 2 ERC events, national 2wd championship step - check; national 4wd championship(s) step - check, International rally step - check, now it's his another step up, drive one or two ERC tarmac events would be great for him, but as Essaj wrote - he drive where he is allowed drive, in this case same goes for Marco.

[PLuto]

Flying back and forth between Bolivia and Europe for a 100km's of national rally must be really fun.
What is he or Kalle losing when they start doing WRC rallies soon as they can? They might not be winning the rallies or even finishing top-10 but so what? they get 3 times the kilometers compared to national rallies + experience from the rallies that matter.
Also just like Kalle, Marco is still 17, which ERC rallies they are allowed to take part except Latvia? and they will be both 18 by then.

I will start from the end - for ERC it is same like in WRC, it depends on the championships and national ASNs. So somewhere yes, somewhere no. But now I am talking in basics and I have wrote it many times in the past, you should go step by step from the smaller championships through bigger events to the WRC. I can tell you that national championships or ERC are completely different events than WRC in few terms - mainly it is about mileage between services and length of the stages. Not only for so young drivers it is mainly about experience - in WRC level they are usually fighting with themselves, to stay on the road and finish the rally. But on "smaller" events with shorter distances between services they have more chances that their car survive, they have more chances to play with the setup of cars, they have more chances to learn also other abilities important for rallysport - fighting for overall classification, when everybody is focused to them, have close fights for seconds with adequate rivals etc. It is very similar also in other sports - you can immediatelly start in the highest class, but to be a good driver you need lot of skills (driving, mental etc). And you must learn them somewhere. And I dont think that WRC is the best level for learning this basic skills...

[Essaj]

C'mon stop with the ERC already, there is no way either of them is going to do full ERC season ever, they can't do it before they are 18 and after that they both have driven multiple WRC events so ERC is already out of the question.

My guess is that Marco is still going to drive CIR and maybe BRC + the 6 WRC events which I guess are Mexico, Argentina, Wales, Spain, Australia and maybe Italy or France? maybe under aged drivers are allowed to drive there?
Kalle might still do some Latvian, Finnish, Italian, APRC, BRC, ....? + the all the WRC events he is going to do.

Experience wise Kalle already has a lot for his age and step to WRC is what he needs, he doesn't need to win championship next year or even rallies which he still might be able to do.

Everyone here knows the the difference between National, ERC and WRC here and all you said makes no sense. Everyone (inc. Kalle and Marco) knows that to score points you need to finish the rally, no matter the length of it, to score more points you need to faster than your rivals, no matter the length.
WRC rallies provide more Km's, more Experience and more changes to tune your car between the services if needed, which should be minimal after pre event tests.

You don't have to be championship contender to drive in WRC2 and it's by far the best and most cost efficient way to learn WRC rallies with 4WD car and keep improving in every aspect of rallying. (if you have the backing)

[PLuto]

Ok, it is your opinion. Mine is different ;)

[KiwiWRCfan]

I have often seen/heard "learn to drive wheels off it first then step up a class" meaning totally master one class of car before stepping up to next level of car. Would this not apply and be more relevant than what particular championship a person is entering in.

[PLuto]

I have often seen/heard "learn to drive wheels off it first then step up a class" meaning totally master one class of car before stepping up to next level of car. Would this not apply and be more relevant than what particular championship a person is entering in.

Of course it is about the car, but not only. To be a good rally driver, you need to have a lot of skills. And you need have ideal playfield where to learn. If you are a soccer player, you are not going directly to Premier league, also biggest talents are going step by step through smallers leagues/teams to improve the skills and mentality. And in the rallysport it is also very similar. I think that this was one of the problems of Max Novikov - he step up too quickly. And from actual drivers, the best example is Andreas Mikkelsen. From beginning he was going immediatelly with WRC car and after few events he moved to WRC. But to be a real champion, he needed to make a step back, which returned him back between the champions...

[electroliquid]

I think that this was one of the problems of Max Novikov - he step up too quickly.

Max Novikov? Maybe Evgeny Novikov?
Bit OT, but in football, basketball and other team sports player need playing time, which he can't get in strongest league, that why going trough smaller ones, in rallying you get same seat time in any level, if you can stay on road.
Back to topic. What about Pierre-Louis Loubet - he went straight to WRC - if he has been done national, and then ERC, was he better? I don't know much about him, is he real talented guy?

[AnttiL]

Of course you can do your development time in WRC2 if you have the budget. The problem just is that you're expected to have a certain level in WRC2 and if you don't have it, you're just perceived as slow. Also, the competition is tougher. Is it better to be ERC/BRC champion than fifth in WRC2?

I think Bulacia is not yet ready for WRC2, but Rovanperä is.

[Rally Power]

To be a good rally driver, you need to have a lot of skills. And you need have ideal playfield where to learn. If you are a soccer player, you are not going directly to Premier league, also biggest talents are going step by step through smallers leagues/teams to improve the skills and mentality. And in the rallysport it is also very similar.

Unlike many of the other top sports, in motorsport you’ve to pay to play and very few manage to be paid for driving. Rally it’s even harder than motor racing; manus or top team seats are rare, especially if we compare to the larger number available on international circuit series.

That’s probably why international rally careers are usually short and some young drivers try to get in WRC as soon as possible. If they manage to get the extra budget to do JWRC or WRC2, why bother to be in ERC? Running in the pinnacle rally series, alongside the best drivers of the world, is for sure a much more exciting and rewarding experience to them.

[PLuto]

If they manage to get the extra budget to do JWRC or WRC2, why bother to be in ERC? Running in the pinnacle rally series, alongside the best drivers of the world, is for sure a much more exciting and rewarding experience to them.

Because I think that they can learn much more in lower series than in WRC.

[PLuto]

Max Novikov? Maybe Evgeny Novikov?
Bit OT, but in football, basketball and other team sports player need playing time, which he can't get in strongest league, that why going trough smaller ones, in rallying you get same seat time in any level, if you can stay on road.
Back to topic. What about Pierre-Louis Loubet - he went straight to WRC - if he has been done national, and then ERC, was he better? I don't know much about him, is he real talented guy?

Yes, of course, Evgeny, Max is his father :) Ok, so if we dont count team sports, we can talk lets say biathlon. There is also "first league" and lower leagues. And for competitors it is better to go step by step from lower championships. And for them is better to fight for top 5 in IBU Cup and be around 30rd position in big league. All, what I want to say is that rallying is not only to know the WRC stages and be from beginning there. You should learn lot of skills to be successful driver, not only driving the car, but also mentality, to know, how to fight for overall win, when everybody is focused on you, to fight for seconds etc. And it is better (and of course also cheaper) to learn it in lower championships than going directly to WRC.

With Pierre-Louis Loubet, it is very specific. He absolutely missed all regional/small events and started directly in WRC. First year with R3T, then immediatelly R5. As he was always in the best teams, there must be lot of backing behind him. Now he has three seasons in WRC behind him, last one with factory R5 car. He is not top WRC2 driver now, showed good speed on some stages and has potential to be faster/better. But until now nobody expected from him anything. Now he will need to grow up, start to make some results. And there is question if this so direct way to the WRC is the best one...

[electroliquid]

...but also mentality, to know, how to fight for overall win, when everybody is focused on you, to fight for seconds etc.

Couldn't agree more on that one ;)

[PLuto]

In this terms I like one adage: "To be a champion you dont need to be fastest driver, but the best driver."

[PLuto]

Of course, every driver is unique. We cannot say strictly that one way is the best one and others are shit. Everybody is trying to go by their own way and in the final they are more or less successful. I like a lot not only to think about it, but also to talk about it. As I was involved in JWRC in golden era around 2005 and later in IRC/ERC, I had opportunity to talk with lot of drivers. Range of this drivers is really big - some of them are successful and have WRC factory seat, some of them are nowhere now. With lot of them I was talking about their plans, about their progress, about their thoughts. And later I can confront them again and understand, what was good and what was bad from their perspective. It is very interesting to know experience of that drivers, to know what they expected from their plans, what was their decisions and what is the reality. I was also trying to give some advices or part of my experience to some drivers. Somebody of them agreed with me, somebody of them not. But I must say that lot of them now agreed that this advices on the beginning of their careers were not bad...

[AnttiL]

You should learn lot of skills to be successful driver, not only driving the car, but also mentality, to know, how to fight for overall win, when everybody is focused on you.



Well Kalle knows how to do this. In Latvia he was dominant and the Finnish guys had nothing on him either. When he went to Italy I thought it was good for him to learn not being always the fastest guy.

[pantealex]

I kind of agree with PLuto.
He is ERC man and I´m WRC man but still: Many good points.

It´s never bad to go ERC before WRC and maybe 95% of drivers can´t start from WRC.
Kalle has used Rally2 in every WRC event which he attended, can´t continue like that, also tarmac- and some gravel type skills quite low but he has factory deal. Let him try WRC2.

[Mirek]

Kalle is now works driver which means he will have plenty of tests and lessons to take. Generally speaking in last ten years Škoda has been very good in development of young drivers. Let's see where Kalle can get. Just for remembering when Juho came to Škoda he was near useless on asphalt but three years later he even defeated Jan fair and square on Barum rally.

[electroliquid]

Also Škoda's APRC program, I think, is very good for young drivers to gather experience.

[Mirek]

Also Škoda's APRC program, I think, is very good for young drivers to gather experience.

I always had a feeling that nobody from European drivers wants to do the APRC but for marketing purposes somebody has to - hence it's always someone new to drive it alongside Gaurav Gill.

[liposh]

Juho´s beginnings in Skoda back in 2009 were beautiful times. Two crashes, 5th place on Rally Ypres and then in Russia where there was a surface that suited him the most of all , Juho had been caught by police for speeding and they confiscated his driving licence. I said to myself: "What a moron" :D ...but then I started to like him more and more. As I said...what a beautiful times ;)

[electroliquid]

Maybe you right, but Gill has no competition from Asia-Pacific region drivers, and Škoda provide someone each year. But for youngsters every km counts, especially in those rally, where they never drive before.

[PLuto]

Kalle need to learn more on different surfaces, actually he did only latvian championship with fast gravel, but there are different types of gravel. He did one year in italian championship, but he needs to do much more on asphalt too. I think we will see Kalle more times this year also out of WRC ;)

[Essaj]

Kalle need to learn more on different surfaces, actually he did only latvian championship with fast gravel, but there are different types of gravel. He did one year in italian championship, but he needs to do much more on asphalt too. I think we will see Kalle more times this year also out of WRC ;)

... And that is what he is going to do next year, get new experiences. Everyone knows that he will be doing events out side of WRC mostly because he is not allowed to take part over half of them.
No one has ever said that he is completed rally driver, not even close. He has done rallies where he is allowed.
he has driven in super fast latvian roads, he has driven in snow, on Italian tarmac and gravel, on muddy Wales, Australia, probably some tests elsewhere and I think that is already pretty nice list for 17 year old.
This year he gets to ad atleast Monte, Mexico, Argentina, Spain to that and those in WRC level and maybe some rallies in Italy and tests with Skoda almost anywhere.

[Essaj]

I kind of agree with PLuto.
He is ERC man and I´m WRC man but still: Many good points.

It´s never bad to go ERC before WRC and maybe 95% of drivers can´t start from WRC.
Kalle has used Rally2 in every WRC event which he attended, can´t continue like that, also tarmac- and some gravel type skills quite low but he has factory deal. Let him try WRC2.

I think no one ever said that driving in ERC is a bad thing, just that when you have a change to do WRC instead of course you choose it over ERC or national championships. It's not Kalle's or Marco's fault that they have backing to do so.
Also he had problems in Walesm went off the road and had to retire for a day but have you seen what happened to him in Australia, it's totally out of his hand.

[Jarek Z]

With Pierre-Louis Loubet, it is very specific. He absolutely missed all regional/small events and started directly in WRC. First year with R3T, then immediatelly R5. As he was always in the best teams, there must be lot of backing behind him. Now he has three seasons in WRC behind him, last one with factory R5 car. He is not top WRC2 driver now, showed good speed on some stages and has potential to be faster/better. But until now nobody expected from him anything. Now he will need to grow up, start to make some results. And there is question if this so direct way to the WRC is the best one...

Didn't we have a similar situation with Antony Warmbold a few years ago? Does anybody remember him? He started rallying and very soon jumped to ERC. Despite miserable results he jumped to WRC and was expecting factory teams to notice his "talent". Of course his results were never good and his "career" ended as quickly as it started.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/641-antony-warmbold/

[Rally Power]

Of course, every driver is unique. We cannot say strictly that one way is the best one and others are shit. Everybody is trying to go by their own way and in the final they are more or less successful. I like a lot not only to think about it, but also to talk about it. As I was involved in JWRC in golden era around 2005 and later in IRC/ERC, I had opportunity to talk with lot of drivers. Range of this drivers is really big - some of them are successful and have WRC factory seat, some of them are nowhere now. With lot of them I was talking about their plans, about their progress, about their thoughts. And later I can confront them again and understand, what was good and what was bad from their perspective. It is very interesting to know experience of that drivers, to know what they expected from their plans, what was their decisions and what is the reality. I was also trying to give some advices or part of my experience to some drivers. Somebody of them agreed with me, somebody of them not. But I must say that lot of them now agreed that this advices on the beginning of their careers were not bad...

Honestly, your step by step view makes total sense and could be the norm for any young driver wanting to start an international career; still, currently JWRC seems to be a quite attractive series (one make cup, fine prizes, WRC experience) and that’s probably why so many are trying it, almost straight from their national series.

The jump from JWRC to WRC2 is even a greater risk, but after JWRC some may look at it as the best way to capitalize their ‘WRC experience’, forgetting how hard it’s to fight against experienced manu backed R5 drivers.

Probably there’s a step missing between JWRC and WRC2 (a R4 world cup?) in WRC ladder, like it’s maybe also missing a 2wd one make cup in ERC (a Junior R2 ‘ligth’, like in France?) as a entry level to the European series...

[PLuto]

Honestly, your step by step view makes total sense and could be the norm for any young driver wanting to start an international career; still, currently JWRC seems to be a quite attractive series (one make cup, fine prizes, WRC experience) and that’s probably why so many are trying it, almost straight from their national series.

The jump from JWRC to WRC2 is even a greater risk, but after JWRC some may look at it as the best way to capitalize their ‘WRC experience’, forgetting how hard it’s to fight against experienced manu backed R5 drivers.

Probably there’s a step missing between JWRC and WRC2 (a R4 world cup?) in WRC ladder, like it’s maybe also missing a 2wd one make cup in ERC (a Junior R2 ‘ligth’, like in France?) as a entry level to the European series...

I dont think that JWRC is good for beginning of international career. And I also dont think it was attractive series in last years. There were only few competitors and usually between the crews there were really big gaps as WRC events with so many kms between services were easily too long for R2 cars...

[Mirek]

Didn't we have a similar situation with Antony Warmbold a few years ago? Does anybody remember him?

Antony Warmbold is member of this forum.

[GravelBen]

Antony Warmbold is member of this forum.

And IIRC shared some very interesting information on his blog about the differences between 'customer' WRC cars and what the factory team were using.

[RS]

Regarding driver development, there seems to be an obsession these days to sign up the next big thing before they are barely out of nappies and in some cases I think the process is rushed.. perhaps not with Rovanpera as he actually started driving so young that he is quite experienced already.

Lefebvre is my favourite current example who showed a lot of promise in 2wd but then the following year was driving a World Rally Car in WRC and it hasn’t worked.

Mikelssen is a good example of someone who had to take a step back in order to take two steps forward.

Even ‘my’ Skoda seem to have been a bit guilty in this with Jusso Nordgren who they seem to have signed on the back of one good performance on his home event (or perhaps I missed something, can someone tell us more about him?)

WRC2 is on a really good level these days with the works Skoda and M-Sport teams there and of course they are necessary for drivers in order to learn the WRC events but there are a few problems with it as a championship..

1) It is very hard to compete if you are not in one of those works teams
2) Events are long and can often be decided by technical problems/punctures and gaps can end up very large so drivers sometimes don’t get much experience in close battles
3) Lack of tarmac

A good career plan to me could be something like ERC 2wd > ERC R5 > WRC2 > WRC.

[AnttiL]

Even ‘my’ Skoda seem to have been a bit guilty in this with Jusso Nordgren who they seem to have signed on the back of one good performance on his home event (or perhaps I missed something, can someone tell us more about him?)

He was pretty good on FWD in 2015 and 2016 and then he jumped into R5 last year, doing just two Finnish championship events, finishing second in each (one of them the top 3 was separated by 4 seconds, in the other he lost only to Kalle Rovanperä). In Rally Finland the first day he was struggling with the car, then the second day he made one fastest R5 time, then went to Rally2 with double puncture, and did again fastest or almost fastest times on the last day. But still, that's very little experience on 4WD car, I was very surprised to see him being signed. He wasn't very fast on Catalunya or Wales but I think the team just wanted him to finish the car.

[br21]

Now many teams are trying to duplicate what M. Wilson is doing for many years already I think. So they search for young potential talents, sign them and hope that one day in the future the investment will pay off... Most recent example of good investment by M. Wilson is Tanak, M-Sport invested in him some money in the past and now receives some (quite big) part of his Toyota salary...

[Tarmop]

Has Tänak, Wilson or Mäkinen told it somewhere? No point in suggesting something one doesn`t know.

[RS]

He was pretty good on FWD in 2015 and 2016 and then he jumped into R5 last year, doing just two Finnish championship events, finishing second in each (one of them the top 3 was separated by 4 seconds, in the other he lost only to Kalle Rovanperä). In Rally Finland the first day he was struggling with the car, then the second day he made one fastest R5 time, then went to Rally2 with double puncture, and did again fastest or almost fastest times on the last day. But still, that's very little experience on 4WD car, I was very surprised to see him being signed. He wasn't very fast on Catalunya or Wales but I think the team just wanted him to finish the car.

Thanks. His signing seemed a little 'random' to me but I wish him all the best obviously.

[PLuto]

To say the truth, reason for signing northern drivers is also political and mainly "money" decision...

[Essaj]

To say the truth, reason for signing northern drivers is also political and mainly "money" decision...

Wait what?

[br21]

Has Tänak, Wilson or Mäkinen told it somewhere? No point in suggesting something one doesn`t know.

I never write something I don't know.

[PLuto]

I never write something I don't know.

And I can agree with br21 ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Not fair. You know a lot more than us, br21 :)

[AMSS]

And I can agree with br21 ;)

I can also confirm what br21 wrote ;)

[Rally Power]

I dont think that JWRC is good for beginning of international career. And I also dont think it was attractive series in last years.

’17 was a bit atypical due to the series changes, but this year it seems there’s a renewed interest in the JWRC. Besides the WRC experience, for many of those young guys it may look more appealing to be in a one make series, with similar chances for everybody, than trying to stand up from the Opel factory drivers in ERCJ.

[nafpaktos]

Most recent example of good investment by M. Wilson is Tanak, M-Sport invested in him some money in the past and now receives some (quite big) part of his Toyota salary...

i thought at the end of 2017 his contract with msport was expiring.wrong??

[dimviii]

i thought at the end of 2017 his contract with msport was expiring.wrong??


its a different thing this one.
That your contract expired,doesnt mean that Malcolm will not earn his share from your next contract at a works team.

[nafpaktos]

still dont understand

[seb_sh]

still dont understand

there can be a clause in the contract that MSport gets a % of Tanak's salary for some years after he leaves MSport

[EstWRC]

The 2018 season for our young driver program, HMDP, will get underway at @Autosport_Show this week, with the public debut of our newly liveried

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTFk3D2WAAISDma.jpg



https://twitter.com/HMSGOfficial/status/950653693795368960

[Hartusvuori]

there can be a clause in the contract that MSport gets a % of Tanak's salary for some years after he leaves MSport

Malcolm have received some %part of Neuville's Hyundai salary too. That have ended though by now.

[Tarmop]

That was quite logical, because he was under contract with M-Sport for 2014 also, but Hyundai bought him over. Tänak`s contract ended with 2017.

[rallyfiend]

That was quite logical, because he was under contract with M-Sport for 2014 also, but Hyundai bought him over. Tänak`s contract ended with 2017.

You're being a bit naive.

Malcolm doesn't invest in these drivers just to have them wander off to another team.

Thierry was also repaying Nasser for some years for the money he contributed to his programme for the 'Qatar M-Sport' year.

[Tarmop]

Show me where i am saying that it couldn`t be like that? :D

[Watson]

The 2018 season for our young driver program, HMDP, will get underway at @Autosport_Show this week, with the public debut of our newly liveried

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTFk3D2WAAISDma.jpg

I guess the WRC cars' livery scheme will be somewhat similar?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Front on view
https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/950714952582512640

[Simmi]

So beyond the Skoda armada not too many entries confirmed so far. But certainly some quality.

Assumed full season:
Tidemand
Kopecky
Rovanpera
Veiby
Nordgren
Huttunen
Lefebvre
Bulacia
Solans?

Partial season:
Arai
Katsuta
Abbring
Suninen
Saba

[Essaj]

We might be getting youngest ever WRC2 champ ;)

[AnttiL]

It's also worth noting that "full season" is 6-7 rallies.

Camilli most likely doing a lot of WRC2.


We might be getting youngest ever WRC2 champ ;)

Tidemand isn't getting any younger :)

[KKS]

For what reason Sunninen will drive a WRC2 champ? He will do 6 rally in WRC and at other hand try win a WRC2 champ? pff

[tommeke_B]

For what reason Sunninen will drive a WRC2 champ? He will do 6 rally in WRC and at other hand try win a WRC2 champ? pff

As said in the media, he will do (at least) 8 events with the Fiesta WRC. He will enter WRC2 probably only to take points from rivals. ;)

[Mirek]

I would not be sure about full season for Kopecký.

[Essaj]

Tidemand isn't getting any younger :)

Well we don't know which events each of them are going to do, that's going to play a big part.
Tidemand for sure is title favorite but who knows, maybe he will be jumping to WRC mid-season. We will see =)

[tommeke_B]

Well we don't know which events each of them are going to do, that's going to play a big part.
Tidemand for sure is title favorite but who knows, maybe he will be jumping to WRC mid-season. We will see =)

Didn't you mean to say "jump to Polo R5"? ;)

[Essaj]

Didn't you mean to say "jump to Polo R5"? ;)

He can still win WRC2 with Polo, which he will most likely use from Germany on, unless they find him a WRC seat somewhere before that :)

[KKS]

unless they find him a WRC seat somewhere before that :)
who was that they?

[Essaj]

who was that they?

Even management

[Myrvold]

Even management

Note sure there are anywhere to drive without paying for it at the moment.

[AnttiL]

For what reason Sunninen will drive a WRC2 champ? He will do 6 rally in WRC and at other hand try win a WRC2 champ? pff

No, he's doing Monte and Deutschland in an R5 probably to gain experience from those rallies for the future.

[electroliquid]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2018/rovanpera-bulletin/page/5117--12-12-.html

[Watson]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2018/rovanpera-bulletin/page/5117--12-12-.html

Well the sense in 'just driving' would be to learn as much of the roads as possible as compared to crashing out on the first day. Also nobody would be disappointed if he'd take a learning season before attacking later on.

[electroliquid]

Also nobody would be disappointed if he'd take a learning season before attacking later on.

I think that he should take learning season. I just can't see him as podium contender this year, maybe in one or two rallies...

[PLuto]

I think that he should take learning season. I just can't see him as podium contender this year, maybe in one or two rallies...

He wants to be fastest from beginning. And I am not sure this is the best way, but in his career you can see that their steps are unusual. We will see if it will be successful or not.

[steve.mandzij]

He wants to be fastest from beginning. And I am not sure this is the best way, but in his career you can see that their steps are unusual. We will see if it will be successful or not.Probably not the best way but it sure is exciting to hear!

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[Hartusvuori]

Kalle will do FRC event in Mikkeli, a week after Rally Sweden.

[pantealex]

Kalle will do FRC event in Mikkeli, a week after Rally Sweden.

Rallirinki calendar says that Sweden and Mikkeli are same time :(

[Co-driven]

So beyond the Skoda armada not too many entries confirmed so far. But certainly some quality.

Assumed full season:
Tidemand
Kopecky
Rovanpera
Veiby
Nordgren
Huttunen
Lefebvre
Bulacia
Solans?

Partial season:
Arai
Katsuta
Abbring
Suninen
Saba

I think Pedro Heller from Chile will also contest the WRC2 again.

[semurg]

So beyond the Skoda armada not too many entries confirmed so far. But certainly some quality.

Assumed full season:
Tidemand
Kopecky
Rovanpera
Veiby
Nordgren
Huttunen
Lefebvre
Bulacia
Solans?

Partial season:
Arai
Katsuta
Abbring
Suninen
Saba

Orhan Avcioglu from TOKSPORT WRT will entry for 5-6 race with FabiaR5

[mousti]

Pieniazek will do 7 events with Printsport Fabia.

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[pantealex]

Pieniazek will do 7 events with Printsport Fabia.

Starting from Sweden.

[Sub_Skoda]

5 rallies for Tamara Molinaro : https://www.lemagsportauto.com/tamara-molinaro-se-lance-wrc-2/29103/

[RS]

5 rallies for Tamara Molinaro : https://www.lemagsportauto.com/tamara-molinaro-se-lance-wrc-2/29103/

I don’t know whether she has real potential or not, but this progression seems too quick to me.

[Watson]

It would be wonderful for the sport if she could reach the WRC. Best of luck to her.

[Simmi]

I don’t know whether she has real potential or not, but this progression seems too quick to me.

This was also my first thought. But clearly she has good backing behind her.

[PLuto]

I don’t know whether she has real potential or not, but this progression seems too quick to me.

For me it is quite crazy step...

[RS]

Suninen confirmed in R5 for Monte and Deutschland, so no full WRC2 campaign unless he adds rounds at a later date.

[Watson]

Suninen confirmed in R5 for Monte and Deutschland, so no full WRC2 campaign unless he adds rounds at a later date.

I have a feeling they will reward him with more WRC events in case he does well and otherwise fill his calendar with more R5 time.

[steve.mandzij]

For me it is quite crazy step...Maybe she should have taken to JWRC first, but she's progressing naturally from R2 to R5. I don't get why people think it's too quick.

Does anybody know anything about Solans?

[RS]

Maybe she should have taken to JWRC first, but she's progressing naturally from R2 to R5. I don't get why people think it's too quick.


Because she hasn't mastered R2 yet..

[steve.mandzij]

Because she hasn't mastered R2 yet..That's what happens when you make a ladies' cup

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[Simmi]

Full WRC2 programme for Greensmith with M-Sport. Starts in Mexico but no other rounds announced yet.

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r5/greensmith-confirms-eight-round-campaign-with-fiesta-r5-and-wrc-2

[Myrvold]

I don’t know whether she has real potential or not, but this progression seems too quick to me.

It would probably help if she was able to get a consistent co-driver as well. 6 different in 20 events cannot be helpful.

[RS]

That's what happens when you make a ladies' cup

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??

She drives R2 so she was also eligible for JERC U27.

[steve.mandzij]

??

She drives R2 so she was also eligible for JERC U27.Going from R2 to R5 for a JWRC/JERC winner is seen as natural progression, but since Tamara won the ladies cup she's seen as not ready yet to make the jump. My point is that I reckon she'd be seen as much more ready to jump to R5 if she'd won a mixed gender championship.

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[RS]

Going from R2 to R5 for a JWRC/JERC winner is seen as natural progression, but since Tamara won the ladies cup she's seen as not ready yet to make the jump. My point is that I reckon she'd be seen as much more ready to jump to R5 if she'd won a mixed gender championship.

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Absolutely, but she didn’t. Participating in the ladies cup didn’t preclude her from the mixed gender category.

[TWRC]

Going from R2 to R5 for a JWRC/JERC winner is seen as natural progression, but since Tamara won the ladies cup she's seen as not ready yet to make the jump. My point is that I reckon she'd be seen as much more ready to jump to R5 if she'd won a mixed gender championship.

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For me personally, that has nothing to do with it.
I have seen her drive on tarmac and gravel as well, and I don't think she's ready. Another 2 years and lots of rallies with R2 car and a good, consistent codriver would be much better in my opinion. But I might be wrong, time will tell.

[BigWorm]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWo75uXUAArqFA.jpg

Gus Greensmith's livery for the season.

[Tarmop]

So Suninen is now a RB athlete, hence the livery.

[N.O.T]

It would be wonderful for the sport if she could reach the WRC. Best of luck to her.

why it would be wonderful ?

[Watson]

why it would be wonderful ?

1 She's female so she'd attract female fans. Look at who girls heroworship. Female tennis players, runners, footballers, swimmers, skiers etc. I reckon that the main reason women aren't into motorsports is that there are hardly any female rolemodels so it is associated with being a 'guy's thing'.

2 She's Italian. The Italians love motorsport but for a long time there hasn't been an Italian rally driver fighting for podiums. There is currently also no Italian brand (which is a shame) and that is not going to change any time soon by the looks of it so she'd get the Tifosi back into rallying.

3 Her being a woman would also give the WRC an edge over F1 where there is almost no chance we'll see a female competitor any time soon.

4 It would be fun seeing her battling with her boyfriend Craig Breen :D

[N.O.T]

wow...

no wonder people consider the west a lost case....

[Watson]

1494

[AL14]

1 She's female so she'd attract female fans. Look at who girls heroworship. Female tennis players, runners, footballers, swimmers, skiers etc. I reckon that the main reason women aren't into motorsports is that there are hardly any female rolemodels so it is associated with being a 'guy's thing'.

2 She's Italian. The Italians love motorsport but for a long time there hasn't been an Italian rally driver fighting for podiums. There is currently also no Italian brand (which is a shame) and that is not going to change any time soon by the looks of it so she'd get the Tifosi back into rallying.

3 Her being a woman would also give the WRC an edge over F1 where there is almost no chance we'll see a female competitor any time soon.

4 It would be fun seeing her battling with her boyfriend Craig Breen :D

lol you serious?

[Watson]

lol you serious?
Well, only under the circumstance that she delivers and is competitive. I'm not suggesting she should get a seat just because she is a woman. Assuming she is that good, don't you think I have a point?

[tommeke_B]

Well, only under the circumstance that she delivers and is competitive. I'm not suggesting she should get a seat just because she is a woman. Assuming she is that good, don't you think I have a point?

Why would you assume she is "that good"? If you would have followed the results of her events in the past few years you should know she is not "that good". ;) Of course it would be a good thing having a very talented female rally driver, but there hasn't been one since a very long time...

[racerx1979]

Michelle Mouton...

[focus206]

2 She's Italian. The Italians love motorsport but for a long time there hasn't been an Italian rally driver fighting for podiums. There is currently also no Italian brand (which is a shame) and that is not going to change any time soon by the looks of it so she'd get the Tifosi back into rallying.


Not really, unless she's very good (which so far, to be honest, doesn't look like so). Nobody cares about Bertelli, no matter his nationality.
About her being a girl, I don't really see much of a difference in the impact she may have... maybe unless, again, she's very good.

[N.O.T]

i also enjoy the female presence in Motorsport.... its like the comedy relief characters in worthless action flicks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRB2QTP8DpU

rallying is a mens sport... we have those half men in F1 if we want to have a shot of feninism.

[Watson]

All my comments on her are assuming she turns out to be very good, I thought the hypothetical nature of my remarks were obvious. I'm not insane. At least not that badly. ;)

And no, I haven't followed her results.

[AL14]

Anyway, even if we agree that she is not good enough for the WRC2 level I must say that a chance to drive 5 rallys in a R5 on WRC events doesn't come very often and if I were she I would have accepted as well.

[Watson]

i also enjoy the female presence in Motorsport.... its like the comedy relief characters in worthless action flicks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRB2QTP8DpU

rallying is a mens sport... we have those half men in F1 if we want to have a shot of feninism.

You sound like someone who has severe insecurities about their own manlihood. Must be a tough life. That also explains all the anger. You should see a shrink.

[ESTR]

Nobody cares if she's good, as long as she's hot... And don't say nothing...

[spiderem]

Nobody cares if she's good, as long as she's hot... And don't say nothing...

well i think all the macho comments are pure jalousie and we would all love this opportunity backed up by Red Bull. Good for her, as long as she has the minimum skills to control a R5 and not end up killing herself or the spectators. Let see if we still hear from her in 3 years time.

[N.O.T]

as long as she has the minimum skills to control a R5 and not end up killing herself or the spectators.

lol... talking about high expectations....

[N.O.T]

You sound like someone who has severe insecurities about their own manlihood. Must be a tough life. That also explains all the anger. You should see a shrink.

you sound like the new breed of british people...

could be worse.

[N.O.T]

I'm not suggesting she should get a seat just because she is a woman.

would she get her seat at this level if she was not a woman ??

[steve.mandzij]

would she get her seat at this level if she was not a woman ??Hey you know what's really cool? Being able to quote three posts in one!

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[Myrvold]

I am sure Michele Mouton agrees with the sentiments in some posts here. Also, frustrating that quotes shows up from ignored users.

[PLuto]

well i think all the macho comments are pure jalousie and we would all love this opportunity backed up by Red Bull. Good for her, as long as she has the minimum skills to control a R5 and not end up killing herself or the spectators. Let see if we still hear from her in 3 years time.

I am not sure she will be backed by Red Bull...

[Sulland]

Automobilsport is one of the few sports where physical strength is of minor importance.
So women should have a equal opportunity to reach the top.

But they are fewer that starts in karting or junior rally, and most of them have a brother and or a father in the sport. Then when you take away the natural peeloff in the 13-16 year periode, the ones left are few and far between.

So from a sponsorship point of view, a talented girl that matches her boy competitors, is a possibility to attract a totally different type of sponsors for a team.

So I support the FIA initiative to attract more girls to start with motorsport. It is always important to have many that starts to find some real talent. Not sure how much the national ASNs do activly wuth this?

I can understand that the few girls that have reached a certain national level, gets tired of always being the only girl. The social part is also important.

I am so old that I remember Michele Mouton driving the quattro, and there has been few in the rallytop since her.

[Adler]

The owner of G. car sport seems to be Tamaras father, afaik Red Bull stopped suporting her, so obviously money is not the problem...

[Bartolbia84]

Possibility Scandola start in 2/3 events

[dimviii]

I am not sure she will be backed by Red Bull...

in French forum there is a photo with redbull colors for her fiesta.Not a real photo,but these photos who show the upcoming livery.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26730895_10157039214451632_8433327336787650792_n.j pg?oh=7d743282a0c5378b1a399041fddd3f46&oe=5AE0458C

[pantealex]

Pirelli/Michelin ;)

[AL14]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26730895_10157039214451632_8433327336787650792_n.j pg?oh=7d743282a0c5378b1a399041fddd3f46&oe=5AE0458C

Red Bull gives you pads with wings.

[liposh]

I am not sure she will be backed by Red Bull...
In fact she has to be backed by RedBull. No one else would give her so much funds. It has to be RedBull. Simple logic.

[tc10a]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26730895_10157039214451632_8433327336787650792_n.j pg?oh=7d743282a0c5378b1a399041fddd3f46&oe=5AE0458C

This was posted on Facebook as "Fan Art" - probably nothing to do with reality as all those bullshit fantasy wrc designs

[PLuto]

It is fan art and nonsense. As far as I know, she will not be backed by Red Bull this year.

[Watson]

Red Bull gives you pads with wings.

Ba Dum Tss.

[Fiat-131-Abarth]

It is fan art and nonsense. As far as I know, she will not be backed by Red Bull this year.

If she would be backed by Red Bull, she probably would drive a Fabia and not a Fiesta...

[Essaj]

If she would be backed by Red Bull, she probably would drive a Fabia and not a Fiesta...

Red Bull is M-Sport's biggest sponsor so Fiesta makes sense, Pirelli might be backing Tamara aswell.

[WUff1]

She obviously leaves BRR, too. BRR also supports Baumschlager, so this all makes sense.

[Jarek Z]

Maybe Craig Breen will teach her a few tricks? ;) They were competing together in Monza Rally Show last year.

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YXmyVwN6/s8/rally-monza-rally-show-2017-craig-breen-tamara-molinaro-citroen-ds-wrc.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OD_t2Uxu_QI/maxresdefault.jpg

[Tarmop]

Red Bull is M-Sport's biggest sponsor so Fiesta makes sense, Pirelli might be backing Tamara aswell.

RB seems to be their athletes sponsor, not M-Sport Ford WRT. Greensmith and Bouffier don`t have anything RB related on their liverys.

[Simmi]

RB seems to be their athletes sponsor, not M-Sport Ford WRT. Greensmith and Bouffier don`t have anything RB related on their liverys.

Those guys have their own sponsors.

[Tarmop]

That`s what i meant :rolleyes:

[liposh]

Guys, stop thinking about M-Sport, BRR, Skoda and Ford. The true is that she is not that good and nobody would put money in her except RedBull. She has value only for RedBull, because she is young and girl and that is what RedBull needs. OR maybe Monster energy, but that would be quite plot twist.

[Tarmop]

Unless she is paying for it herself...


The owner of G. car sport seems to be Tamaras father, afaik Red Bull stopped suporting her, so obviously money is not the problem...

[pantealex]

So none of you have noticed that there is NO WRC2 infront of her name in RallySweden...

She is just RC2/R5 competitor, NOT WRC2 driver.

if she starts with R5 I´m happy, does´t matter who is paying.

[tomhlord]

Maybe Craig Breen will teach her a few tricks? ;) They were competing together in Monza Rally Show last year.

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YXmyVwN6/s8/rally-monza-rally-show-2017-craig-breen-tamara-molinaro-citroen-ds-wrc.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OD_t2Uxu_QI/maxresdefault.jpg

They are in a relationship.

You know, not just in rallying.

[Rally Power]

It’s great to have Molinaro on the WRC, despite her jump to a R5 may look risky. Mouton was ever on a class of her own and ready to be at the WRC since day 1. Aitken Walker, De Martini or Holderier were also proven drivers before entering WRC. Still, they all managed to improve during their WRC seasons. Hopefully, so will Tamara; fingers crossed for her!

[dupanton]

Guillaume De Mevius, Belgian national team driver, will compete in 3 WRC2 rounds: Monte Carlo, Corsica and Germany

[Bartolbia84]

Not gravel round?

[mousti]

Not gravel round?Nope though in the 208 cup in France his better results were on gravel..

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[Bartolbia84]

#WRC2 - @UScandola start in @RallySweden 🇸🇪, @Rally_d_Italia 🇮🇹, @RallyFinland 🇫🇮 , Germany 🇩🇪 with @skodafabiar5 @SKODAScandola

[Andre Oliveira]

Andolfi with Skoda

[Bartolbia84]

Yes skoda motorsport italia

France
Portugal
Sardinia
Finland
ADAC
Spain
Wales

[mousti]

Not bad for those 2.

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[Rally Hokkaido]

Multiple APRC Champion, Guarav Gill to join 2018 WRC2 in a Skoda according to this Indian webzine. It is not actually his WRC debut as he drove a few rounds in PWRC back in around 2009, IIRC.

http://indiainf1.com/wrc/gill-to-drive-wrc2-for-skoda-in-2018-a-well-deserved-break/

[RS]

Multiple APRC Champion, Guarav Gill to join 2018 WRC2 in a Skoda according to this Indian webzine. It is not actually his WRC debut as he drove a few rounds in PWRC back in around 2009, IIRC.

http://indiainf1.com/wrc/gill-to-drive-wrc2-for-skoda-in-2018-a-well-deserved-break/

He has been very good over the years on APRC territory, beating Lappi and Veiby to the title. Will be interesting to see what he can do.

[ESTR]

He has been very good over the years on APRC territory, beating Lappi and Veiby to the title. Will be interesting to see what he can do.

6 drivers in WRC2 hmmm... Skoda must have quite a budget. Better invest in top league and make a proper challenge.

[Mirek]

6 drivers in WRC2 hmmm... Skoda must have quite a budget. Better invest in top league and make a proper challenge.

I ma quite sure that they don't pay everything from their own budget, especially in case of Gill I expect him to have his own budget from Indian sponsors.

But otherwise for sure they have now enough money to do what they want. They have never been in such good financial shape like now. I heard even the motorsport department has been profitable but of course I can't be sure about that.

[SubaruNorway]

He has been very good over the years on APRC territory, beating Lappi and Veiby to the title. Will be interesting to see what he can do.

Not on pure speed though, mostly bad luck with technical problems for the others.

[Mirek]

Not on pure speed though, mostly bad luck with technical problems for the others.

AFAIK at least with Lappi it was mostly his own driving mistakes.

[Co-driven]

Yes skoda motorsport italia

France
Portugal
Sardinia
Finland
ADAC
Spain
Wales

Does the same team runs Andolfi and Scandola's cars?

Which team?

[focus206]

Does the same team runs Andolfi and Scandola's cars?

Which team?

No, Andolfi will drive a Fabia run by Motorsport Italia. Scandola will drive a Fabia of his own team, which is Skoda Italy "works" team.

[Bartolbia84]

Possibility Hoelbling in Sardinia

[Rally Power]

According to www.rallye-sport.fr, besides a WRC2 program, Loubet will also do some ERC events, with FFSA support.

Still no confirmation on Ciamin; he was trying to run at least 5 WRC2 rallys, after the MC RGT experience.

[Ralph-Mario]

HONZA as clockwork, nice...

[Jarek Z]

Yes, what a knockout from Honza in WRC2!

Final results of WRC2:
1. Jan Kopecky/Pavel Dresler - Skoda Fabia R5
2. Eddie Sciessere/Flavio Zanella - Citroen DS3 R5 +22:47,7 !!!
3. Teemu Suninen/Mikko Markkula - Ford Fiesta R5 +33:31,1 !!!

[AnttiL]

Not even much better if you count in Rovanperä (+5:15.3) and Burri (+13:28.9). Maybe too many WRC2 guys played it safe and decided to skip Monte. No one knows what the others are going to do before the entries are closed. Hopefully this means a tighter competition in other events.

[RS]

Not even much better if you count in Rovanperä (+5:15.3) and Burri (+13:28.9). Maybe too many WRC2 guys played it safe and decided to skip Monte. No one knows what the others are going to do before the entries are closed. Hopefully this means a tighter competition in other events.

Unfortunately they dropped the compulsory events rule so again one can fight for the title without facing your competitors, although title looks all but guaranteed for one of the Skoda guys again.

[AnttiL]

Unfortunately they dropped the compulsory events rule so again one can fight for the title without facing your competitors, although title looks all but guaranteed for one of the Skoda guys again.

Well at least a factory team can spread their drivers along the season but they can't know where their rivals are going to enter in. Maybe that's why Camilli and Tidemand's programs are not announced?

[Myrvold]

Unfortunately they dropped the compulsory events rule so again one can fight for the title without facing your competitors, although title looks all but guaranteed for one of the Skoda guys again.

The positive thing with it, is that other rallies can get a small entrant boost.