female-only series will harm women’s F1 chances champion gets f1 test drive

[CNR]

to me Toto Wolff sounds like a total F***

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/29/formula-one-toto-wolff-criticse-all-women-series-plans

Toto Wolff, the Mercedes F1 executive director, believes a single-gender motor racing championship would “undermine” women and harm their prospects of making it to Formula One.

Plans have been drawn up by a London-based company to stage an inaugural women-only series which could be launched in 2019. The proposal intends to see women drivers compete at six races, with the champion promised a Formula One test drive.

[zako85]

I kind of don't care, but who is gonna pay for all of this, and what's going to happen with the series if its champion driver gets crushed in an F1 test?

[Nitrodaze]

I actually think he has a point. There are women fighting in war zones around the world, flying fighter jets, driving tanks etc. I don't understand why there is a phobia for women driving F1 cars. A female only series would definitely see to it that female drivers never get into F1. Soon there would be one female driver good enough to race in F1, l definitely would hope that the fact she has boobs is not going prevent her from getting a drive she deserves.

[inimitablestoo]

About the only female driver who's ever expressed any interest in a female-only championship is Carmen Jorda. And if Lotus wouldn't give her a test drive when she was working for them, nobody else is going to want to...

The only possible positive I've ever been able to see from an all-women championship is if winning it gave you an automatic Superlicence (along the lines of what originally happened for winning Formula E). Otherwise, it will always just be a novelty act.

[Starter]

to me Toto Wolff sounds like a total F***

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/29/formula-one-toto-wolff-criticse-all-women-series-plans

Toto Wolff, the Mercedes F1 executive director, believes a single-gender motor racing championship would “undermine” women and harm their prospects of making it to Formula One.

Plans have been drawn up by a London-based company to stage an inaugural women-only series which could be launched in 2019. The proposal intends to see women drivers compete at six races, with the champion promised a Formula One test drive.
Toto is right. Auto racing is the only sport where women can compete on equal terms with men (well except for shooting and stuff like that). That's because it has nothing to do with size, weight or strength. Rather, it's about conditioning, mental determination and reflexes. The only thing that surprises me is that more women haven't chosen to pursue a career in the sport. I know that many women have been successful at the amateur level here in the US.

[AndyL]

Toto is right. Auto racing is the only sport where women can compete on equal terms with men (well except for shooting and stuff like that). That's because it has nothing to do with size, weight or strength. Rather, it's about conditioning, mental determination and reflexes. The only thing that surprises me is that more women haven't chosen to pursue a career in the sport. I know that many women have been successful at the amateur level here in the US.

I expect if you compared the number of men who've had similar success at the same amateur levels, you'd find those women still represent a tiny proportion. Girls are socialised from a very young age that it's a "boys' thing." Part of that is that when they see racing drivers on TV, they're (almost) all men. The value in a well-publicised and supported women's racing series is to present female role models to the next generation. The women-only series is surely a dead-end for the women competing in it, but it could encourage more girls to enter karting and lower-level car racing, and if that happens then there's some chance that one of the very, very few drivers who make it to the highest level in future will eventually be a woman.

[Starter]

those women still represent a tiny proportion.
Smaller yes, tiny no.

[Jag_Warrior]

Waste of time.

Until more girls get onto the road that will take them through the European ladder series, I think it's unrealistic to expect there to be a female F1 driver any time soon. As Starter said, auto racing is one of the very few sports where women and men can compete equally. Susie and Carmen didn't make it to F1 because neither had a super license. And they couldn't get a super license because they couldn't win a race if they were the only car in that race. Danica? Danica, even when she was in her "prime", and could have gotten sponsorship, never managed to win even a single road course race in a near 20 year long career. Who would want you in their F1 car if you can't scrape together even one win in the IRL or NASCAR? Most of the male drivers in F1, even the bad ones, have managed to win multiple races and usually championships in lower formulas. To create this "special olympics" style, female-only series is, IMO, rather insulting to the entire female gender. I think it's the result of the PC plague that's running rampant in western society these days, where lack of results is blamed on sexism and the word of the year: misogyny. So if you can't get the results, don't raise your game. We'll just create a special class for you. Here in the U.S., everybody gets a ribbon these days. Hell, the U.S. military is doing it with the special forces, why not F1? :rolleyes:

Put ten or twenty talented, serious girls in various European formula car series, and I think out of that group, you likely will get an F1 caliber driver out of that group. But eliminate the swimsuit models, like Carmen, and the Kardashian wannabes, like Danica, right up front. Look for the stone-faced racers, that just happen to be females, like Simona di Silvestro. Instead of wasting their money on their loopy social justice warrior initiatives, Oprah Winfrey and Sheryl Sandberg could throw a few million behind a few talented girl racers, and it wouldn't be much more than a rounding error in their checkbooks.

/Rant Over/

[Nitrodaze]

I expect if you compared the number of men who've had similar success at the same amateur levels, you'd find those women still represent a tiny proportion. Girls are socialised from a very young age that it's a "boys' thing." Part of that is that when they see racing drivers on TV, they're (almost) all men. The value in a well-publicised and supported women's racing series is to present female role models to the next generation. The women-only series is surely a dead-end for the women competing in it, but it could encourage more girls to enter karting and lower-level car racing, and if that happens then there's some chance that one of the very, very few drivers who make it to the highest level in future will eventually be a woman.

I think a female F1 driver doing well would be a stronger role model than a female only championship winner. The psychological barrier for women to race with male drivers will remain and would only re-enforce that macho element of F1 as a male only formula. The girls doing karting are doing it in the mix with boys their age. I wonder why they should grow up to find they are not going to race these boys in the premier formula. I think the door to F1 should be left open to women to come and race in it as women before them has done racing in F1. What we need is a championship winning potential in a lady racer, to change this anti-women in F1 mentality. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

[AndyL]

I think a female F1 drive doing well would be a stronger role model than a female only championship winner.

It would be, but it's never going to happen as long as the numbers at the entry level of motorsport are so low.

As an example I just looked through a programme from a BTCC meeting this year. The number of young women in the entry level formulae (Ginetta Junior, F4 and Clio Cup) is 2 out of 56. How many of those 56 are going to make it into higher formulae like BTCC itself, or British/Euro F3? 5-10%? It's improbable that one of the 2 women will be in that top 10%, which is why the number of women in those 3 higher championships I mentioned goes down to 1 in 75. Then maybe the top 5% at the national level might have a chance of pushing on to lower international level, and 5% of those might make it to the highest international level. The probability that one of those few women at the entry level is still left in the 5% of the 5% of the 5% becomes vanishingly small.

You won't see a female driver doing well in F1 until a decade after there are a good 20% female drivers at the basic entry level. If you're expecting a female champion to inspire grass-roots participation, then you're putting the cart before the horse. The grass-roots participation needs to be inspired before the champion will be found.

[Nitrodaze]

It would be, but it's never going to happen as long as the numbers at the entry level of motorsport are so low.

As an example I just looked through a programme from a BTCC meeting this year. The number of young women in the entry level formulae (Ginetta Junior, F4 and Clio Cup) is 2 out of 56. How many of those 56 are going to make it into higher formulae like BTCC itself, or British/Euro F3? 5-10%? It's improbable that one of the 2 women will be in that top 10%, which is why the number of women in those 3 higher championships I mentioned goes down to 1 in 75. Then maybe the top 5% at the national level might have a chance of pushing on to lower international level, and 5% of those might make it to the highest international level. The probability that one of those few women at the entry level is still left in the 5% of the 5% of the 5% becomes vanishingly small.

You won't see a female driver doing well in F1 until a decade after there are a good 20% female drivers at the basic entry level. If you're expecting a female champion to inspire grass-roots participation, then you're putting the cart before the horse. The grass-roots participation needs to be inspired before the champion will be found.

I agree actually. I hope it improves in the future with the exposure that Suzie Woolf has given female in F1 in recent times. I don't think anyone is asking for the standard to be dropped to allow women to race in F1. My argument is F1 should wait for the right level of women to arrive into F1 in due course by leaving the door wide open. A female only series would certainly shut that door as who in their right mind would place a female only champion in an F1 seat where she would be battling with ferocious hardened male racers. It would take time, so the door should patiently be left ajar for when they arrive.

[AndyL]

I agree actually. I hope it improves in the future with the exposure that Suzie Woolf has given female in F1 in recent times. I don't think anyone is asking for the standard to be dropped to allow women to race in F1. My argument is F1 should wait for the right level of women to arrive into F1 in due course by leaving the door wide open. A female only series would certainly shut that door as who in their right mind would place a female only champion in an F1 seat where she would be battling with ferocious hardened male racers. It would take time, so the door should patiently be left ajar for when they arrive.

I think the problem there is that merely waiting will not achieve anything. You'll be waiting forever. The female F1 winner will never come, unless more girls are encouraged to step onto the first rung of the ladder. Clearly the proposed women-only series cannot produce an F1 champion itself, but it can provide that encouragement.

[Nitrodaze]

I think the problem there is that merely waiting will not achieve anything. You'll be waiting forever. The female F1 winner will never come, unless more girls are encouraged to step onto the first rung of the ladder. Clearly the proposed women-only series cannot produce an F1 champion itself, but it can provide that encouragement.

You can't rush these things. They just develop naturally, hence l think it is very likely to occur sooner than you think.