[WRC] News & Rumours 2018

[Sulland]

What changes will come in 2018?
+
Generic N&R thread for next year

[ESTR]

TEAMS & DRIVERS:

1. Citroen
-Meeke
-Breen
-Loeb/Qassimi/Lefebvre (PH Sport)
-Serderidis (???)

2. Hyundai:
-Neuville
-Mikkelsen
-Paddon/Sordo (4 cars on some events)

3. Toyota:
-Latvala
-Tanak
-Lappi

4. Ford M-Sport:
-Ogier
-Evans
-Suninen/Ostberg

WRC2:

1. Skoda:
-Tidemand
-Veiby
-Kopecky

2. Hyundai:
-Huttunen

3. M-Sport:
-Camilli
-Suninen

4. MEM (Proton)
-???

5. Holzer (Opel)
-???

6. VW (Polo)
-???

7. Citroen (C3 R5):
-Bonato/Lefebvre

8. Peugeot (developing 208 Evo2)

9. Toyota:
-R4 Spec car (Oreca)
-develop R5 car

Maybe new formula for R2 regulations.

2018 Junior WRC champion gets a prize of car (R5 Fiesta for WRC2) and budget I think with free pass and gasoline.

CALENDAR:
-Turkey replace Poland
-Every month gets covered with rally (no big gaps) except december - april & october have 2 rallies.
-Spain & GB swap places.
-Italy have to confirm to held rally on Sardegna
-Croatia will (maybe) have candidate event in 2018 for 2019 round.

SPORTING REG:
-Chicanes are under big questions...
-4 car rule is probably dead.

NO big changes... They have said late in 2016 that 2019 will have some big changes (maybe).

Man I would be happy if they could cover more live stages not only 2 different and 3 total.. With drone tech still not possible or what. And placed cameras in all cars...

[Eli]

What changes will come in 2018?
+
Generic N&R thread for next year

You forgot to add: Part VI- Return of the Ford ;)

Wishful thinking yes? (but still you could have added that)...

[Eli]

CALENDAR:
-Turkey replace Poland
-Every month gets covered with rally (no big gaps) except december - april & october have 2 rallies.
-Spain & GB swap places.
-Italy have to confirm to held rally on Sardegna
-Croatia will (maybe) have candidate event in 2018 for 2019 round.

SPORTING REG:
-Chicanes are under big questions...
-4 car rule is probably dead.

NO big changes... They have said late in 2016 that 2019 will have some big changes (maybe).

Man I would be happy if they could cover more live stages not only 2 different and 3 total.. With drone tech still not possible or what. And placed cameras in all cars...


I think they said the current regs are for season 2017-2019 so will just have to see what they come up with, but since the FIA are short sighted when it comes to the WRC, we have to enjoy what we have right now.

[Andre Oliveira]

FIA R4 formula can score WRC2 points?

[Eli]

On the Ogier subject again, after hearing Colin's kitchen table, I was thinking if Ford are coming back next year, we might see Citroen out by 2019...which tbh would be quite a shame, the FIA needs to make sure what they have now 4(ish) teams in the WRC should stay for the long term.

[Andre Oliveira]

Abu Dhabi contract was for 2016/2019

[Eli]

Abu Dhabi contract was for 2016/2019

Good to know:)

[Loose_Unit]

Paddon sticking with the team in 2018 despite probable reduced programme

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motorsport/news/article.cfm?c_id=66&objectid=11944339

[ESTR]

4 cars. Or maybe allow again satellite teams, that could get more drivers compete, more teams in the leaderboard.. Abu dhabi will then seeking Hyundai, Toyota or M-Sport again? Citroen are screwed. That cheapstakes will never win again...

[Loose_Unit]

4 car teams whilst expensive for the teams would be so good for the sport. more seats, more drivers.

[ESTR]

Paddon sticking with the team in 2018 despite probable reduced programme

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motorsport/news/article.cfm?c_id=66&objectid=11944339

Looks like Hyundai will run their own team championship. They will compete against each other to get next drive... What a morale or maybe motivation to get the good results? I don't know. What if 2 of their drivers will deliver poor results will they promote Huttunen like they are that muh desperate? And bloody fix that suspension. Don't blame all on drivers, deliver them a good machine...

[Loose_Unit]

I dont really understand it considering they stood by Theirry so staunchly during his slump, and now they bugger both Paddon and Sordo. I can understand the need for results I guess. The best thing would be for Paddon and Sordo to switch between the WRC car and WRC2 for their non nominated rounds... Because otherwise not only does it hurt Paddon in particular for 2018, it has an effect on 2019 too having missed tarmac development potentially.

[denkimi]

4 car teams whilst expensive for the teams would be so good for the sport. more seats, more drivers.
just give manufacturers points to whoever finishes in a car of that manufacturer, independent of which team they are in.

that would push the ones going for the title to use more cars, without making it to expensive for the ones who don't want to.

[wrc2017]

well.. dmack is gone as i predicted.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

well.. dmack is gone as i predicted.

Not gone, just not sponsoring a car.

They still intend to supply a WRT with tyres for one car. There are events where their tyre can win and provide good Manu points.

[rallyfiend]

Not gone, just not sponsoring a car.

They still intend to supply a WRT with tyres for one car. There are events where their tyre can win and provide good Manu points.

You're believing their spin.

They're gone.

the financial issues have been long rumoured, and now it's obviously time to stop....

[wrc2017]

if only you knew....
Not gone, just not sponsoring a car.

They still intend to supply a WRT with tyres for one car. There are events where their tyre can win and provide good Manu points.

[AnttiL]

TEAMS & DRIVERS:



So much confirmed information and speculation/product of imagination combined. The 2018 teams was created for that.

[EstWRC]

Paddon and Sordo to split opening 2018 WRC rounds

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/paddon-and-sordo-to-split-opening-2018-wrc-rounds-979157/

[AnttiL]

Paddon and Sordo to split opening 2018 WRC rounds

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/paddon-and-sordo-to-split-opening-2018-wrc-rounds-979157/

Like expected, Sordo in Monte, Paddon in Sweden.

[EstWRC]

Paddon not competing on tarmac events will hurt him big time IMO. It is his weakest point anyway and when you cant compete on tarmac rallies and gain experience it will make it even worse.

[Andre Oliveira]

That will kill Paddon carreer.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

if only you knew....

Knew what ? Proof ?

‏
@DMACK_Tyres
We WILL have a full-time presence in WRC next season as a tyre supplier, our eighth season.

“Our focus on winning the world championship remains absolute, but what we need next year is a season of development and reconnection with our key markets. This in no way means we’re walking away from the WRC and if we can’t find [a manufacturer] agreement then we will pick out some events and try to win those with a hired car.”

[AnttiL]

Paddon not competing on tarmac events will hurt him big time IMO. It is his weakest point anyway and when you cant compete on tarmac rallies and gain experience it will make it even worse.

And having breaks from competition will make it harder to get the pace at the gravel rallies.

[electroliquid]

That will kill Paddon carreer.

Indeed, Paddon must find new way to his career. Paddon and Neuville never get along very well, now Neuville has his "bestie" Mikkelsen in team, and they both show results, it's wrong place for Paddon, even he step up next season...

[Duvel]

Indeed, Paddon must find new way to his career. Paddon and Neuville never get along very well, now Neuville has his "bestie" Mikkelsen in team, and they both show results, it's wrong place for Paddon, even he step up next season...

Hyundai New zealand / Australia should step in.. Finance a fourth car next season.

[er88]

2018 was the year Paddon was targeting for the championship. That's not gone to plan..., but when you're in such a big budget team and don't deliver you can't have many complaints.

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[ESTR]

At least Hyundai NZ could pay for R5 drive on tarmac events...

[er88]

At least Hyundai NZ could pay for R5 drive on tarmac events...Hopefully. Even Hyundai could do that themselves

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[racerx1979]

Rumor has it he will be contesting a few events in an R5, but no mention of which events.

[AnttiL]

Changes for 2018
- Shakedown tyres are not included in the tyre quota for a rally
- R5 drivers are free to choose their tyre brand
- WRC Trophy is no more, privateers can enter WRC2017 cars (as we saw Serderidis already is going for this)
- No more mandatory events for WRC2 (this season Portugal, Deutschland and Wales were mandatory)

http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/rallin-mm-sarjaan-tulossa-muutoksia-kaudelle-2018/

[Tarmop]

Umm, privateers could enter 2017 cars this year, if they could afford it and the manufacturer agreed....or am i wrong?

[AnttiL]

Umm, privateers could enter 2017 cars this year, if they could afford it and the manufacturer agreed....or am i wrong?

Only a registered manufacturer could enter 2017 cars this year. Østberg was entered always under M-Sport, same for Bertelli and other privateers. In 2018 Adapta could enter Østberg, FWRT could enter Bertelli, Serderidis can enter himself. A manufacturer can only enter 6 cars per rally so theoretically we could now see more WRC2017 cars

[Tarmop]

Oh, that difference. Ok, but not a big change (if one could get his hands on that new car, he would probably be registered by manu. also, six same cars would be a wonder).

[Simmi]

Yeah it just means teams don't have to get creative with their paperwork any more. Not a big change but good to see a daft rule removed. Good to see the Shakedown tyre thing sorted too. All quite sensible.

[KKS]

Changes for 2018
...
- R5 drivers are free to choose their tyre brand
...
R5 or WRC2 drivers?

[AnttiL]

R5 or WRC2 drivers?

That article said R5 but I was also thinking it should say WRC2

[Simmi]

Was there a rule in place about this before regarding WRC2? Did you have to stick with the same tyre manufacturer across a season? Don't seem to remember that being the case.

[AMSS]

Was there a rule in place about this before regarding WRC2? Did you have to stick with the same tyre manufacturer across a season? Don't seem to remember that being the case.

No, you have been free to chose between Michelin and Dmack as they have been the only official tyre suppliers, next year apparently for WRC2 there will be no official suppliers to this class, probably only for WRC

[steve.mandzij]

Will Bertelli be back? He was slow but I miss seeing his mirror car on the stages. No doubt the most interesting livery I got to see in Argentina.

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[ESTR]

wow Ostberg post on Facebook right now that he sells his Fiesta WRC 2017! I didn't see that coming

[SubaruNorway]

He's been adamant that he won't run his own car next year, so not so surprising.
https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/ford-fiesta-wrc-2017/

[AnttiL]

So, Mads will be driving for M-Sport next year, one way or another?

[mknight]

That's how I also read this. Either he will pay them to service the car or just drive as a driver that brings some money.

[steve.mandzij]

I don't get why mads keeps on going. His career got thrown into a lake with a rock strapped to it's feet last year and it hasn't wriggled lose this one. Unless he runs his own car I don't see him in the WRC again.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and he's super spectacular but I fear he's near his end.

[Essaj]

I don't get why mads keeps on going. His career got thrown into a lake with a rock strapped to it's feet last year and it hasn't wriggled lose this one. Unless he runs his own car I don't see him in the WRC again.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and he's super spectacular but I fear he's near his end.

Why wouldn't he continue? There aint many people people who get paid for doing this. If he can bring people to pay for his drive, of course he should continue, enjoy and bring some results if possible. I believe he think he can still drive for the win in some events.
It's not like he is stealing others drive.

[Tarmop]

Well, "being paid" or being paid. I understand that most of the finances come from his family companies, so more or less just an expensive hobby.

[Essaj]

Well, "being paid" or being paid. I understand that most of the finances come from his family companies, so more or less just an expensive hobby.

And I don't see nothing wrong with that. Without self/sponsor paid drivers we would only have Hyundai, Toyota, Citroen, Skoda drivers + Ogier with M-sport competing. others would be somewhere else.

[AnttiL]

Well, "being paid" or being paid. I understand that most of the finances come from his family companies, so more or less just an expensive hobby.

It's marketing ;)

[pantealex]

A manufacturer can only enter 6 cars per rally

I have totally missed this rule, how long has it been like this ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier's options, Fiesta or siesta:

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/is-this-the-end-for-sebastien-ogier/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133204/citroen-explains-why-ogier-talks-failed

[Andre Oliveira]

PIRELLI BECOME OFFICIAL PARTNER OF FIA JUNIOR WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r2/pirelli-become-official-partner-of-fia-junior-world-rally-championship

[GigiGalliNo1]

Just a heads up - Ogier and Julian to separate for the 2018 season.

Julian to retire due to back injury earlier this year.

[Tarmop]

Although he has hinted quite the opposite...

[Andre Oliveira]

I thought the same when Veillas tested some days with Ogier.

[AnttiL]

I thought the same when Veillas tested some days with Ogier.

He has tested with Bertelli's co-driver Simone Scattolin as well. And also tested with Veillas before the crash in Finland. Also, when Ogier crashed in Rally Finland tests, it was an engineer sitting next to him.

[EstWRC]

M-Sport and Toyota: Controversy over Tänak

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fwrc%2Fartikel%2Fd%2F2017%2F11%2F24%2F m-sport-und-toyota-streit-um-taenak%2F&edit-text=

"This has nothing to do with Ott, it's about the way the thing went," said the M-Sport boss, without wanting to go into detail.


interesting.

[cali]

M-Sport and Toyota: Controversy over Tänak

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fwrc%2Fartikel%2Fd%2F2017%2F11%2F24%2F m-sport-und-toyota-streit-um-taenak%2F&edit-text=

"This has nothing to do with Ott, it's about the way the thing went," said the M-Sport boss, without wanting to go into detail.


interesting.Just normal business

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[AnttiL]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/mexico-start/page/5035--12-12-.html

No more Mexico City start for Rally Mexico

[Alex009]

And also tested with Veillas before the crash in Finland. Also, when Ogier crashed in Rally Finland tests, it was an engineer sitting next to him.

Rally Finland crash has nothing to do with Ingrassias injury. Thats why he hasn't been in tests this season.

[dimviii]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/why-hyundai-is-divided-over-paddon/

[mknight]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/why-hyundai-is-divided-over-paddon/

Well Paddon said it himself when asked to rate his season from 0 to 10 he gave it - points.

Also this article even paints more positive picture than reality:
- in Sardinia he crashed twice, with second one on last stage before Power Stage especially unnecessary
- in Poland he finished second only because all the drivers that were ahead either crashed out or had issues (Tanak, Latvala, Ogier)
- similar in Australia being slowest of the Hyundais all rally except 1 stage

The team (or some people in it) might like him as much as they want but in the end it's down to results if they don't come by the end of 2018 there might be some new candidates. But for 2018 I'd say he is safe to do those 7? rallies he now got promised.

[GravelBen]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/why-hyundai-is-divided-over-paddon/

More clickbait from David Evans trying to create drama again? He's always inventing 'division with teams' and 'conflict between drivers' whether it exists or not.

[ESTR]

Still Hyundai can let him drive R5 at least for rest of rallies, just to get the experience... Maybe he can be a real challenger in WRC2 too and without mandatory events it's easier if he score points in both categories

[Simmi]

More clickbait from David Evans trying to create drama again? He's always inventing 'division with teams' and 'conflict between drivers' whether it exists or not.

You really think he's invented anything in his column there?

[N.O.T]

Just a heads up - Ogier and Julian to separate for the 2018 season.

Julian to retire due to back injury earlier this year.

does your condition run in the family or you are the special one ?

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPojIfkW4AAUCSY.jpg

Volkswagen's new Polo GTi R5 has made its testing debut


https://t.co/S5nVFh95R6

[liposh]

"Volkswagen is not expected to run a factory team with its new R5 car, but will provide customers with technical support." ...yeah, yeah, of course we believe them. (sarcasm alert) And that is the reason why Pontus Tidemand , most experienced young driver our of RC1 class was doing the test :D

[car]

does your condition run in the family or you are the special one ?


Which bit is inaccurate? Are they not going to separate? Does Julian not have an underlying back injury that means he no longer wants to compete? (I'm not trying to catch you out NOT... genuine questions)..

[rallyfiend]

Which bit is inaccurate? Are they not going to separate? Does Julian not have an underlying back injury that means he no longer wants to compete? (I'm not trying to catch you out NOT... genuine questions)..

You're right on both counts.

[N.O.T]

Which bit is inaccurate? Are they not going to separate? Does Julian not have an underlying back injury that means he no longer wants to compete? (I'm not trying to catch you out NOT... genuine questions)..

if his back injury was so severe he would have quit mid season.... i am shooting the messenger here not the message, because its way more fun and he deserves it.

[EstWRC]

Hyundai: Australia dominance a warning shot for 2018


https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-australia-dominance-warning-shot-for-2018-983456/

[N.O.T]

Hyundai: Australia dominance a warning shot for 2018


https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-australia-dominance-warning-shot-for-2018-983456/

LOL... they need drivers to dominate not potato dogs.

The car was dominant this year as well and we all saw how it went for them...

[EstWRC]

Just a heads up - Ogier and Julian to separate for the 2018 season.

Julian to retire due to back injury earlier this year.

Will Julien stay next season?

“Yeah for sure. I could not imagine to compete with anybody else except for him. He had some small issues this year and the crash in Finland was quite a hard one for him, but he didn’t consider to retire yet, there is still more for him.”

[N.O.T]

Will Julien stay next season?

“Yeah for sure. I could not imagine to compete with anybody else except for him. He had some small issues this year and the crash in Finland was quite a hard one for him, but he didn’t consider to retire yet, there is still more for him.”

wow... what a dramatic change of events...nobody expected that....

[er88]

Just a heads up - Ogier and Julian to separate for the 2018 season.

Julian to retire due to back injury earlier this year.I know you keep trying to out do yourself each year, but I'm afraid this wasn't up to your usual quantity of shite spouted. Still wrong ofcourse

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[Andre Oliveira]

Bakkerud in WRC2?

https://www.autosport.com/wrx/news/133345/rx-star-bakkerud-ponders-wrc2-after-block-exit

[Andre Oliveira]

Carlos del Barrio again with Sordo

https://amp.marca.com/motor/rallies/2017/11/29/5a1eddc122601db8078b4658.html

[PLuto]

Bakkerud in WRC2?

https://www.autosport.com/wrx/news/133345/rx-star-bakkerud-ponders-wrc2-after-block-exit

With almost no rally experience, I dont see any sense of this step. Only big promotion (in first races)...

[Essaj]

With almost no rally experience, I dont see any sense of this step. Only big promotion (in first races)...

Cheaper season, a lot more seat time, new experiences etc. I don't see why people on this forum are always so negative about everything.
For me it sound like a great change for him and even if he hops back to WRX after one season he is still many experiences richer, so why not?
Nitis has also done some rally events in Latvia and I wouldn't be too surprised if he continues to race more since WRX is becoming so expensive.

[KKS]

I don't see why people on this forum are always so negative about everything.
.
Yeah, it's same in rallying and rally-cross , need a car, need a driver so you can easily jump from cross to rallying yeah?

If he still continue to push his rivals as he do at WRX... I think he would have good experience when trees will push him back

[Simmi]

Mahonen saying current rallies are too long. I'm sure this will go down well: https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/rally-gb-criticised-for-being-too-long/


I can see his point about service to an extent. But he wants more, shorter stages, all based around a population zone with accommodation for the teams, guests etc. You can't have it all.

[AnttiL]

Mahonen saying current rallies are too long. I'm sure this will go down well: https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/rally-gb-criticised-for-being-too-long/


I can see his point about service to an extent. But he wants more, shorter stages, all based around a population zone with accommodation for the teams, guests etc. You can't have it all.

Wales really did bend the rules about having really many stages with no service inbetween. Although, we still had probably less WRC retirements than in any other rally. Also, the long saturday loop with no service was compensated with just two night stages as the second loop. And like stated in the article, Wales didn't really utilize the service park well enough. And of course the long liaisons, we don't want that either.

All in all, he doesn't say the total length of special stages in a rally should be shortened, and that's what's most important to us.

[tommeke_B]

A few years ago the stages had to be longer, now they want them shorter again.. Rally needed to be brought to the people. Wales and Sweden are now being criticized for having not enough SS mileage compared to the total mileage. Well, they have it because they brought the rally to the people with their stupid super-special-stages (Karlstad and Cholmondely). Maybe it's not so bad Mahonen retires at the end of the year.

[Allez Andruet]

Mahonen saying current rallies are too long.
Mahonen is one of the biggest jokes there's ever been in the sport. He tried his best to kill the national scene when he was running things in Finland back in the 90's and almost succeed in it. It's no wonder he has said something as idiotic as this (that the current rallies are too long). The less he's involved in any decisions, the better for the sport.

[AnttiL]

It's no wonder he has said something as idiotic as this (that the current rallies are too long).

He doesn't say that. David Evans just interprets his words. If anything, Mahonen is asking for things that were a given in rallying decades ago (short legs between services, short stages, short liaisons).

[Hartusvuori]

Mahonen is one of the biggest jokes there's ever been in the sport. He tried his best to kill the national scene when he was running things in Finland back in the 90's and almost succeed in it. It's no wonder he has said something as idiotic as this (that the current rallies are too long). The less he's involved in any decisions, the better for the sport.

Mahonen just lost vote for Finnish ASN's AKK Motorsport's chairmanship. Current chairman Juhani Pakari stays in the position. Vote was very close, 199-178, which means clearly that the motorsport field in Finland is divided into two camps. From what I've heard, Mahonen would've been the choice for rallying scene - if someone knows more, please tell. I can understand that for Finnish ASN Mahonen would've been understandable choice given his international contacts. I'm not saying I like him, but this isn't a popularity contest.

Considering Evans' article (what Colin Clark probably describes as a work of world class journo!) and things Mahonen brings forth there - it's the difficult question of how to please manufacturers (who pay for this), desirebly bigger light user service park goers (who pay for this) and consideribly big, but not easily growing heavy user special stage goers (who pay for this). We can't have all. We also can't have rallying as per pre-95 because that society isn't here anymore. We can't have more events without giving away something from the old. There's a lot of pressure involved, for decision makers like Mahonen especially. I think we all understand the different sides, but there isn't working standard solution for every event in the current format. My ideal is relatively close to what we have now.

[PLuto]

I am really happy that Mahonen will go out. He is/was cancer for rallysport.

[Allez Andruet]

He doesn't say that. David Evans just interprets his words. If anything, Mahonen is asking for things that were a given in rallying decades ago (short legs between services, short stages, short liaisons).


Considering Evans' article (what Colin Clark probably describes as a work of world class journo!) and things Mahonen brings forth there - it's the difficult question of how to please manufacturers (who pay for this), desirebly bigger light user service park goers (who pay for this) and consideribly big, but not easily growing heavy user special stage goers (who pay for this). We can't have all. We also can't have rallying as per pre-95 because that society isn't here anymore. We can't have more events without giving away something from the old. There's a lot of pressure involved, for decision makers like Mahonen especially. I think we all understand the different sides, but there isn't working standard solution for every event in the current format. My ideal is relatively close to what we have now.

Guys, fair enough - I must admit I didn't bother reading the story due to the Mahonen-factor. But yes, I know he's a "rally person" and I can even recall seeing (as a kid though) him co-drive Seppo Mustonen back in the late 80s / early 90s, but I just can't stand him. And that's purely because what happened to the national scene during the time he was in AKK. But that's another discussion altogether...

IMO, there's a lot of room for improvement in the structure of the current WRC rallies. And it's not that I'd like to see them drive days and days without any sleep (á la RAC 1985), but the rallies should (again, in my opinioin) differ more from one another. We could easily keep the total mileage of the season as it is today, but yes, Monte should be longer, Argentina should be longer and then we could squeeze the true sprint rallies like Sweden and Finland to a more compact form. That being said, I totally agree with Hartusvuori that this current model is far from being bad. Let's face it, it could be A LOT worse.

[Hartusvuori]

IMO, there's a lot of room for improvement in the structure of the current WRC rallies. And it's not that I'd like to see them drive days and days without any sleep (á la RAC 1985), but the rallies should (again, in my opinioin) differ more from one another. We could easily keep the total mileage of the season as it is today, but yes, Monte should be longer, Argentina should be longer and then we could squeeze the true sprint rallies like Sweden and Finland to a more compact form. That being said, I totally agree with Hartusvuori that this current model is far from being bad. Let's face it, it could be A LOT worse.

I do absolutely agree with you that rallies should have and be able to hold on to their character. That shouldn't be impossible, but natural. In my opinion that should also raise the public interest - the core of the events anyhow will be the same, special stages rallying and in the end the fastest crew wins.

[AnttiL]

we could squeeze the true sprint rallies like Sweden and Finland to a more compact form.

I don't see how Rally Finland could be any shorter than it is now. But I'd love to have an additional leg driven on Thursday evening on every rally.


I do absolutely agree with you that rallies should have and be able to hold on to their character.

Tour de Corse has 10 stages, Rally Finland has 25 stages. Monte and TDC do not have any super specials, Mexico has eight of them. Monte and Wales have night stages. I think that's pushing it as far as the current rules allow.

[pantealex]

I don't see how Rally Finland could be any shorter than it is now. But I'd love to have an additional leg driven on Thursday evening on every rally.



Tour de Corse has 10 stages, Rally Finland has 25 stages. Monte and TDC do not have any super specials, Mexico has eight of them. Monte and Wales have night stages. I think that's pushing it as far as the current rules allow.

Finland could have current sunday in thursday (4 SS maybe) and rally could end saturday evening = lot of people watching.
VIP people are not watching rally sundays.

[AnttiL]

Finland could have current sunday in thursday (4 SS maybe) and rally could end saturday evening = lot of people watching.
VIP people are not watching rally sundays.

Does not make it really shorter. Also, having power stage always on sunday afternoon is good

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why not have the Service Park at a spectator stage (or vice versa). There would be less liaison miles going a long way just to run a short stage. Seemed to work on the recent Rally Australia at Coff"s Harbour...

[pantealex]

Why not have the Service Park at a spectator stage (or vice versa). There would be less liaison miles going a long way just to run a short stage. Seemed to work on the recent Rally Australia at Coff"s Harbour...

SSS Harju in Finland is 5min walking from Service Park, works fine.

[pantealex]

Does not make it really shorter. Also, having power stage always on sunday afternoon is good

One day shorter but with same kilometers.

Now 6 days (2d recce, thursday, friday, saturday and sunday) My version only 5 days.
I have nothing against sunday but I´m hardcore rallyfan.

[Rallyper]

What about starting up some remote service areas? Not full service, but more than today and enough to provide competitors to make stages a bit more far from SP. Should open up for new stages. Not same, same every year.
Having said that I agree every rally should/could have it´s own exclusive brand in form of lenght, days involved etz. Teemu, though, have a point that todays formula is quite near the ideal.

[AnttiL]

What about starting up some remote service areas?

Mahonen addressed this problem in the article, when the cars are on a long leg with a remote service, the main service park is quiet for a full day.

I would personally love to have longer legs with remote services to get access to a wider selection of stages, but I understand that the service park is important to the business side of rally, and without that there is no rally at all.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133365/more-ford-support-was-key-to-ogier-2018-deal

Let's hope they'll make an announcement soon.

[Allez Andruet]

I don't see how Rally Finland could be any shorter than it is now. But I'd love to have an additional leg driven on Thursday evening on every rally.
It could... not that I'd voluntarily be making it any shorter, but let's just say for the sake of diversity - if Argentina or Mexico could be extended to five-day "marathons" (that would be the modern day equivalent of Safari) by giving away a day from Finland and another one from Sweden, I'd certainly give it a try. In a way that would also make Sweden and Finland more unique by giving them that sprintesque flavor (something that made them both special back in the day). Who knows, it could easily turn out to be the worst idea ever, but I for one would love to see something like that being tested.

Btw, I think Sweden was a 2-day event in 1987, so it's not a completely new thing.

[MrJan]

I would personally love to have longer legs with remote services to get access to a wider selection of stages, but I understand that the service park is important to the business side of rally, and without that there is no rally at all.

I wonder how much the service park actually brings in (in terms of revenue) for the businesses that surround the sport. I also wonder if having a single service is harming the sport. For example, would more people attend Rally GB if it had stages across a wider area (e.g, taking in stages in the North East of England and South East of Scotland, as well Wales). We're unlikely to ever see that again, but it would definitely increase the catchment area. Arguably it would also make the event more interesting, which would attract spectators.

[AnttiL]

I wonder how much the service park actually brings in (in terms of revenue) for the businesses that surround the sport. I also wonder if having a single service is harming the sport. For example, would more people attend Rally GB if it had stages across a wider area (e.g, taking in stages in the North East of England and South East of Scotland, as well Wales). We're unlikely to ever see that again, but it would definitely increase the catchment area. Arguably it would also make the event more interesting, which would attract spectators.

Well the City of Jyväskylä just reported that they made 14 million euros of profit from Rally Finland 2017. If the stages and services would be partly elsewhere, the money would also go elsewhere.

Also, it would be very expensive for the teams to move the service trucks elsewhere during the rally. This is not the 90's anymore. You don't fix a rally car with a sledgehammer in the forest while the driver smokes a cigarette.

[AnttiL]

Btw, I think Sweden was a 2-day event in 1987, so it's not a completely new thing.

Rally Finland was also two days in 2010, except for one super special on the opening day.

If Mexico was 5 days...they would have, what, 20 super specials?

[Andre Oliveira]

Still many questions.

Who will be 3rd Ford M-Sport driver?
Who will be WRC2 M-Sport driver? It will be any?
Who will be Škoda squad?

[ezboy]

Still many questions.

Who will be 3rd Ford M-Sport driver?
Who will be WRC2 M-Sport driver? It will be any?
Who will be Škoda squad?

Suninen (and maybe Camilli sharing a car.)
Loubet, Camilli and Suninen (if not doing the whole season)
Škoda squad's combined age is going to be around ≈ 60 :-)

[the sniper]

This is the quote that I find worst from Mahonen, that shows that he should never be allowed to poison rallying with his opinions again:

“Today’s rallies should be compact and they need a heart and that heart is the service park, where entertainment is offered. We started this centralised service in Finland because we know the city people, they don’t go to forests, so we build the service for them to enjoy the atmosphere for the rally.”

The popularity of rallying has only fallen overall during the 'ever decreasing circles' era of rallying. Nowadays we have events like Rally GB that have the slight freedom to do something slightly out of the box, to reach out and capture the essence of what rallying was about, and fans are being drawn back in. I thought Rally GB was fantastic this year, but to people like Mahonen, for whom rallying as it once was and somewhat is now is viewed to be too much of an inconvenience, they seem desperate to make rallies uninspiring, copy and paste non-events. Each 'event' purely being a different country to set up their posh lorry park! Utterly pathetic... If you want to rally around a service park, go and hang out with the rallycross boys Mahonen!

[RAS007]

This is the quote that I find worst from Mahonen, that shows that he should never be allowed to poison rallying with his opinions again:

“Today’s rallies should be compact and they need a heart and that heart is the service park, where entertainment is offered. We started this centralised service in Finland because we know the city people, they don’t go to forests, so we build the service for them to enjoy the atmosphere for the rally.”

The popularity of rallying has only fallen overall during the 'ever decreasing circles' era of rallying. Nowadays we have events like Rally GB that have the slight freedom to do something slightly out of the box, to reach out and capture the essence of what rallying was about, and fans are being drawn back in. I thought Rally GB was fantastic this year, but to people like Mahonen, for whom rallying as it once was and somewhat is now is viewed to be too much of an inconvenience, they seem desperate to make rallies uninspiring, copy and paste non-events. Each 'event' purely being a different country to set up their posh lorry park! Utterly pathetic... If you want to rally around a service park, go and hang out with the rallycross boys Mahonen!

Agreed. This is total bullshit. This "cloverleaf" format has always been a load of bollocks. Pretty soon we'll be using 2 stages 10 times each.

[er88]

This is the quote that I find worst from Mahonen, that shows that he should never be allowed to poison rallying with his opinions again:

“Today’s rallies should be compact and they need a heart and that heart is the service park, where entertainment is offered. We started this centralised service in Finland because we know the city people, they don’t go to forests, so we build the service for them to enjoy the atmosphere for the rally.”

The popularity of rallying has only fallen overall during the 'ever decreasing circles' era of rallying. Nowadays we have events like Rally GB that have the slight freedom to do something slightly out of the box, to reach out and capture the essence of what rallying was about, and fans are being drawn back in. I thought Rally GB was fantastic this year, but to people like Mahonen, for whom rallying as it once was and somewhat is now is viewed to be too much of an inconvenience, they seem desperate to make rallies uninspiring, copy and paste non-events. Each 'event' purely being a different country to set up their posh lorry park! Utterly pathetic... If you want to rally around a service park, go and hang out with the rallycross boys Mahonen!Well said, couldn't have put it better myself.

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[EstWRC]

about Mads plans for next year

https://rallysportmag.com/privateer-mads-ostberg-crossroads/

[Allez Andruet]

Rally Finland was also two days in 2010, except for one super special on the opening day.
Oh yes, I had completely forgot that. But 2010 is the only edition of Rally Finland I've missed since 1991 so that must be the reason :D

[AnttiL]

about Mads plans for next year

https://rallysportmag.com/privateer-mads-ostberg-crossroads/

Just the most essential parts:


Father-manager Morten Ostberg has stated there are four alternatives, ranging from a full WRC season, a combination of WRC and WRC2, a combination of selected rallies in WRC and/or WRC2 and Rallycross, and exclusively Rallycross.

The team are in negotiations at the moment, not helped by the delay before the World Motor Sport Council release the 2018 Sporting Regulations, due next week.

[AnttiL]

The popularity of rallying has only fallen overall during the 'ever decreasing circles' era of rallying.

Have you thought that maybe there's other factors affecting the popularity of rallying than just the format of the events? The 80's is over and won't return.

Besides, 2017 saw a boost in the popularity of WRC and I'm pretty sure the reason is that it's not anymore just one driver and one team winning.

Again, I would personally love to see longer rallies, but I also understand the financial challenges in that. How did they do it in the 80's then? Well, car industry isn't as wealthy today and having tobacco/alcohol sponsors must have helped as well.

[AnttiL]

Škoda squad's combined age is going to be around ≈ 60 :-)

Veiby, Tidemand and Nordgren? Kopecky continuing as well? Rovanperä on Pirellis?

[Rallyper]

Well the City of Jyväskylä just reported that they made 14 million euros of profit from Rally Finland 2017. If the stages and services would be partly elsewhere, the money would also go elsewhere.

Also, it would be very expensive for the teams to move the service trucks elsewhere during the rally. This is not the 90's anymore. You don't fix a rally car with a sledgehammer in the forest while the driver smokes a cigarette.

You could be right in some way. But the main reason is to expand the interest in rallying. Then it´s maybe increases to 20 millions profit. And enough for some other kaupunki to share. :)

[EstWRC]

PH Sport‏
@PH__Sport
11m11 minutes ago
More
We’re very proud to have been chosen by @CitroenRacing to offer a #C3WRC for hire!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP9EUSiXcAI-9L7.jpg



https://twitter.com/PH__Sport/status/936542747921670144

[rallyfiend]

Lets see if they have more luck than M-Sport to rent these money-pits....

[Hartusvuori]

You could be right in some way. But the main reason is to expand the interest in rallying. Then it´s maybe increases to 20 millions profit. And enough for some other kaupunki to share. :)

Prior comparable study on economic effects of Rally Finland were done in 2013. Then direct profit to Jyväskylä region were 14,7 m€, in 2017 it was 14,4 m€. I don't know how the study is made and the numbers are quite detailed in my opinion. Still, if Rally Finland and Jyväskylä want an increase in the numbers, some new tricks must be brought forth. Maybe those new tricks are named Esapekka, Teemu, Kalle and Jari.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lets see if they have more luck than M-Sport to rent these money-pits....

M-Sport actually sold one ! ;)
Plus one is out on hire (currently with Kajto)...

[rage82]

I think Pirelli will be sponsor and provide tires only for JWRC and not for the other categories.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

IMO, there's a lot of room for improvement in the structure of the current WRC rallies. And it's not that I'd like to see them drive days and days without any sleep (á la RAC 1985), but the rallies should (again, in my opinioin) differ more from one another. We could easily keep the total mileage of the season as it is today, but yes, Monte should be longer, Argentina should be longer and then we could squeeze the true sprint rallies like Sweden and Finland to a more compact form.

It could... not that I'd voluntarily be making it any shorter, but let's just say for the sake of diversity - if Argentina or Mexico could be extended to five-day "marathons" (that would be the modern day equivalent of Safari) by giving away a day from Finland and another one from Sweden, I'd certainly give it a try.
Amen. With shorter gaps between legs and remote tire service between loops, instead repeated visits to service park, most of current 300/350 ss kms events (not just Sweden and Finland) could be run in just 2 days.

Besides more compact sprint events, I’d add not 2 but 4 big ‘Grand Slam’ old school rallys (4 to 5 days, 500 to 600 ss kms): MC; GB; NZ and Argentina.

For sure it won’t happen, as old days are long gone and no one can actually say WRC is living bad times (quite the opposite), still hearing Mahonen arguments on Wales Rally makes me sad about the future.

Wales second leg was one of the most entertaining days of recent years (for fans at home and even more for those spectating, like the luckiest of you mentioned). Leg started at 6am and finished after 8pm, breaking the boring 9 to 5 WRC routine; no service between first and second loop, saving drivers from long travels to service park and shortening time gaps between stage passes; at the end, no pointless SSS but two real night stages, adding fantastic excitement to the event!

Yes, second leg without even a tire service on first loops was a bit extreme and having only 40 SS kms on Sunday is embarrassing (besides screwing the 25% average), but ’17 Wales itinerary should be praised as a valid experience with positive lessons for the future, instead of being disapproved in such a short minded way.

Btw, the empty hours service park argument is BS; for a long time VIP’s are also taken to stages to feel the real thing and they love it; for the general public, an hour or two visiting evening service is more than enough for them.

[AnttiL]

Wales second leg was one of the most entertaining days of recent years (for fans at home and even more for those spectating, like the luckiest of you mentioned). Leg started at 6am and finished after 8pm, breaking the boring 9 to 5 WRC routine; no service between first and second loop, saving drivers from long travels to service park and shortening time gaps between stage passes; at the end, no pointless SSS but two real night stages, adding fantastic excitement to the event!

Let's look at this closer


SS 8 Aberhirnant 1 13.91km 07:55
SS 9 Dyfnant 1 17.91km 08:47
SS 10 Gartheiniog 1 12.61km 09:59
SS 11 Dyfi 1 25.86km 10:28
SS 12 Gartheiniog 2 12.61km 12:08
SS 13 Dyfi 2 25.86km 12:37
SS 14 Cholmondeley Castle 1.80km 15:48
Service E (Deeside) 16:55
SS 15 Aberhirnant 2 13.91km 18:55
SS 16 Dyfnant 2 17.91km 19:47
Service F (Deeside) 22:26

Actually there were stages from 7:55 to 12:37, then a long gap with just one super special (yes, a pointless SSS), and then again two stages from 18:55 to 19:47. And there was a service between the two legs, before the two night stages. In the end it's just a normal day of 2x4 stages just divided differently.

A better example of a proper day of rallying was the Friday of Rally Finland, with continuous stages from 7:12 to 11:42 (basically as long as the first part of the Wales Saturday) and then from 15:00 to 20:30, 12 in total.


SS 2 Halinen 1 7.65km 07:12
SS 3 Urria 1 12.75km 07:45
SS 4 Jukojärvi 1 21.31km 08:48
SS 5 Halinen 2 7.65km 10:06
SS 6 Urria 2 12.75km 10:39
SS 7 Jukojärvi 2 21.31km 11:42
Service B (Jyväskylä - Paviljonki) 13:37
SS 8 Äänekoski ‐ Valtra 1 7.39km 15:00
SS 9 Laukaa 1 11.76km 16:13
SS 10 Lankamaa 21.68km 17:11
SS 11 Äänekoski ‐ Valtra 2 7.39km 18:09
SS 12 Laukaa 2 11.76km 19:22
SS 13 Harju 2 2.31km 20:30

[Andre Oliveira]

I think Pirelli will be sponsor and provide tires only for JWRC and not for the other categories.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Wrong :)

[Rally Power]

Actually there were stages from 7:55 to 12:37, then a long gap with just one super special (yes, a pointless SSS), and then again two stages from 18:55 to 19:47. And there was a service between the two legs, before the two night stages. In the end it's just a normal day of 2x4 stages just divided differently.
A better example of a proper day of rallying was the Friday of Rally Finland, with continuous stages from 7:12 to 11:42 (basically as long as the first part of the Wales Saturday) and then from 15:00 to 20:30, 12 in total.

Mate, Wales 2nd leg started at 6.10am (first car service) and it ended after 10pm (not after 8, like I’ve mentioned); SS8, 9, 10 and 11 are a loop, therefore it's right to say there was no service between initial loops; only between second loop (after SS14 to be more precise), and night stages. For sure a shorter break between SS14 and the late stages (adding one more night stage) would made it even more interesting, but overall, Wales organizers did a nice effort to put a different show on the road and they’ve succeeded.

Btw, taking Finland case as example isn’t fair at all; how many European WRC events have gravel stages on host city limits, like Jyvaskyla has? In most events crews spends 1 or 2 hours getting to gravel stages regions, meaning long travels to service park between loops and boring waiting hours for spectators. Apparently, Mahonen doesn’t care about it, so he can’t appreciate those, like Wales organizers, who try to minimize that issue.

[pantealex]

I think Pirelli will be sponsor and provide tires only for JWRC and not for the other categories.


Don´t think :(

Their press release said that they will provide tyres to every category (WRC,WRC2,WRC3,JWRC and privateers)

[rage82]

Don´t think :(

Their press release said that they will provide tyres to every category (WRC,WRC2,WRC3,JWRC and privateers)You are right about Pirelli, I look now at their press release.
I was misled maybe from this sentence:Not only that, but Pirelli also becomes exclusive supplier to the Junior World Rally Championship from next year.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

I enjoyed the SSS Rallyfest on Day 2 of Rally GB, as did many many thousands of fans.

But dragging the driver's from mid-Wales right across the English border for it (and then up to the SP) was a bit much.

Especially when they then had to drive back deep into Wales for the two night stages.

[Simmi]

I enjoyed the SSS Rallyfest on Day 2 of Rally GB, as did many many thousands of fans.

But dragging the driver's from mid-Wales right across the English border for it (and then up to the SP) was a bit much.

Especially when they then had to drive back deep into Wales for the two night stages.

That one small spectator stage affects the entire leg on the Saturday. I'd question whether it's worth it. With the amount of people trekking into the forests maybe you could argue it's been working. Would be interesting to know what percentage of SSS goers head into the forests a year or two later for the 'proper rallying'. Or on the flip side you could say maybe it's no longer required.

I didn't hear a single good word about Tir Prince from anyone who went, so not sure if that will be back.

[SubaruNorway]

The biggest headache for the organizers this year has been that the live stage on Saturday has to be at 12:08 which in the past was the time you usually were at service.

[MrJan]

The biggest headache for the organizers this year has been that the live stage on Saturday has to be at 12:08 which in the past was the time you usually were at service.

Yeah they should push that to later in the day, it makes Sunday's a bit ridiculous.

[er88]

PH Sport‏
@PH__Sport
11m11 minutes ago
More
We’re very proud to have been chosen by @CitroenRacing to offer a #C3WRC for hire!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP9EUSiXcAI-9L7.jpg



https://twitter.com/PH__Sport/status/936542747921670144So is this instead of Citroen having to pay for a 3rd car themselves??

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[Simmi]

So is this instead of Citroen having to pay for a 3rd car themselves??

Will be interesting to see how they utilise this car for sure. There was a rumour they'd run two cars plus PH Sport running a third. Let's see.

[SubaruNorway]

Will be interesting to see how they utilise this car for sure. There was a rumour they'd run two cars plus PH Sport running a third. Let's see.

That's weird if Citroen can score points with a car run by a different team?

[EstWRC]

Colin Clark in twitter
Could be just Friday night fun and games but rumours swirling around this evening about a high level WRC management departure today! Seems that silly season may not be over yet!!!!


my guess is Citroen and Matton.

[Essaj]

Colin Clark in twitter
Could be just Friday night fun and games but rumours swirling around this evening about a high level WRC management departure today! Seems that silly season may not be over yet!!!!


my guess is Citroen and Matton.

Mine aswell, hopefully it's just Matton :(

[Eli]

Mine aswell, hopefully it's just Matton :(

Hope it's just Matton leaving Citroën.

[rallyfiend]

There were rumours he had applied for the job at FIA to replace Mahonen.

Maybe that’s why he’s leaving.

If it is Matton.

Time will tell.

[ESTR]

There were rumours he had applied for the job at FIA to replace Mahonen.

Maybe that’s why he’s leaving.

If it is Matton.

Time will tell.

Well then it's better than he stays where he is.. We don't need another mess-guy up there..

[er88]

Matton doesn't really deserve to keep his place at Citroen.

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[KKS]

Friday comes to the end and no news yet... I want good news for Citroen and bad for Matton :/

[Barreis]

he has WTCC and WRC championship behind him so hard that he'll be booted

[er88]

he has WTCC and WRC championship behind him so hard that he'll be bootedThe last two years have seen numerous mistakes and failures from him. You don't get many chances in big high profile jobs, regardless of whatever success you achieved years and years ago. I think he'd be very fortunate if he ends up keeping his job


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[Barreis]

agree with you but if top citroen guys don't see it, what benefit is this talk

[er88]

agree with you but if top citroen guys don't see it, what benefit is this talkVery true. In fact the top Citroen bosses might even be aware of all the errors and bad decision making, but still decide to do nothing. Perhaps due to financial restrictions/lack of ambition etc...

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[AndyRAC]

Yeah they should push that to later in the day, it makes Sunday's a bit ridiculous.

Agree. Sunday's are basically a waste - approx 40km of stages....They could be run on a Saturday night. If you're going to have stages on a Sunday, then have some decent length, and move the Power stage later in the day.
I've always understood the need for standardisation; but I've never agreed with it - WRC should be varied formats, events, etc what works for 1 event, doesn't work for others. For example, Why can't the Monte run from Tuesday - Friday??

[jonkka]

For example, Why can't the Monte run from Tuesday - Friday??

Because it would affect viewer/spectator figures and thus profits as not as many people can spend time to follow rally on workdays.

[Eli]

So still no news about that departure of a high level WRC management, hopefully we'll know soon enough.

[kure91]

Prior comparable study on economic effects of Rally Finland were done in 2013. Then direct profit to Jyväskylä region were 14,7 m€, in 2017 it was 14,4 m€. I don't know how the study is made and the numbers are quite detailed in my opinion. Still, if Rally Finland and Jyväskylä want an increase in the numbers, some new tricks must be brought forth. Maybe those new tricks are named Esapekka, Teemu, Kalle and Jari.
I know its little OT, but would it be possible to link this study, if it is possible? Study of impacts of rally events is one of my research topics, so it would be nice to have some study I haven´t seen yet.

[ESTR]

So still no news about that departure of a high level WRC management, hopefully we'll know soon enough.

Maybe it's just rumours, maybe not. All are betting on Matton getting out, maybe some other, but I gotta feeling that this is only about Mahonen and nothing else..

[AndyRAC]

Because it would affect viewer/spectator figures and thus profits as not as many people can spend time to follow rally on workdays.

Doesn't seem to affect cycling's 3 Grand Tours; and wasn't a problem in the recent past.....Why not give it a go? Le Mans has it's practice & qualifying on Weds/ Thurs afternoon/ evening....not a problem.

[Andre Oliveira]

It is just a week per year. Here, in Fafe zone, employees had the week to follow the rally in the past.

[Franky]

Doesn't seem to affect cycling's 3 Grand Tours; and wasn't a problem in the recent past.....Why not give it a go? Le Mans has it's practice & qualifying on Weds/ Thurs afternoon/ evening....not a problem.

I was at Le Mans in 2016, the entire week, and I can say that the crowd numbers kept increasing as the weekend got closer. And by race day it was completely different story.

[AnttiL]

For example, Why can't the Monte run from Tuesday - Friday??


Doesn't seem to affect cycling's 3 Grand Tours; and wasn't a problem in the recent past.....Why not give it a go? Le Mans has it's practice & qualifying on Weds/ Thurs afternoon/ evening....not a problem.

What would we gain by moving the rally out from the weekend?

EDIT: added in the quote I was thinking of.

[N.O.T]

What would we gain by moving the rally out from the weekend?

it would satisfy the autism rage some people have... otherwise nothing.

[tommeke_B]

Organizers of Rallye Monte Carlo preferred to organize it during the week in the IRC-years.

[pantealex]

What would we gain by moving the rally out from the weekend?

More paying VIP audience, less beer drinking rally-fans. If rally ends saturday people can stay and have party in host city and go home in sunday, now when rally finish is sunday, you have to go work next morning.

Why all "village" events are held in saturday if sunday is as good ?
For television sunday is better but for live audience not.

[tommeke_B]

Maybe in Finland Pante... In Belgium almost all smaller events are held on sunday (recce and scrutineering on saturday). ;) Some others are always held on a national holiday.

National events here are very different, some on saturday, some saturday + sunday (Wallonie, Condroz) or friday evening + saturday (Spa, Ypres, Omloop van Vlaanderen).

[ESTR]

It's just fine that those events are held for weekend. Maybe some of us have jobs from mon-fri and this is perfect to attend or at least follow live... In my country all events are on friday and saturday, so always miss half the action.

[AnttiL]

More paying VIP audience, less beer drinking rally-fans. If rally ends saturday people can stay and have party in host city and go home in sunday, now when rally finish is sunday, you have to go work next morning.

Why all "village" events are held in saturday if sunday is as good ?
For television sunday is better but for live audience not.

The original quote suggested a rally to be run from tuesday to friday. No saturday at all. Are you sure those paying VIP customers don't go to work on weekdays?

[electroliquid]

In Belgium almost all smaller events are held on sunday

Exactly - smaller. For regular national events Sunday is not good. Rally ends in evening, then parc ferme, awrds, so crews has to pack their stuff, load cars in almost midnight, and drive home all night. That's why almost all rallies in northern Europe is on Saturday, sometimes Friday/Saturday. Belgium is quite small, but has many regional events, so there that problem isn't big, but for example there is Saaremaa rally, and crews go there from all neighbor countries, drive from Saaremaa to home 600 or 800 km on Sunday night and then go to work in Monday would be insane for crews, mechanics, spectators.

[Hartusvuori]

I know its little OT, but would it be possible to link this study, if it is possible? Study of impacts of rally events is one of my research topics, so it would be nice to have some study I haven´t seen yet.

Here's press release: http://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/info/uutiset/economic-impact-published/

I'm not sure whether the study is (yet) fully public or is there an English version too. I can ask, because I find this interesting too.

[Simmi]

Are you sure those paying VIP customers don't go to work on weekdays?

If your VIPs are related to sponsors and companies then in theory it's better to target them during the week. For us spectators we give up our weekends to watch rallying. But when you're being invited there and you have no interest it's still work at the end of the day.

I don't think Mahonen was referencing 'paying' VIPs - whatever they are.

[pantealex]

The original quote suggested a rally to be run from tuesday to friday. No saturday at all. Are you sure those paying VIP customers don't go to work on weekdays?

I only know facts about Rally Finland.

Thursday which have only SSS1 Harju had more VIP events than final day Sunday with 4 stages and one of those was very interesting PowerStage.

Also normal ticket sales is bigger in thursday than sunday.

[AnttiL]

I only know facts about Rally Finland.

Thursday which have only SSS1 Harju had more VIP events than final day Sunday with 4 stages and one of those was very interesting PowerStage.

Also normal ticket sales is bigger in thursday than sunday.

Maybe it has something to do with one stage being in the city and others in the woods. Also, if Ouninpohja had been on Sunday, I'm sure the VIP tents would have been packed.

[jbmarcus21]

Tänak debuts with Toyota MC18 test ► http://bit.ly/2BGNmOx

[Barreis]

FIA says shorter stages?!?
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133434

[AnttiL]

FIA says shorter stages?!?
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133434

Yeah let's restart this conversation every time David Evans reposts the interview as a new article. :p

Or just go here (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39722-WRC-News-amp-Rumours-2018&p=1164281&viewfull=1#post1164281) and read our thoughts :)

[dimviii]

Autosport‏
Verified account
#WRC's future should be six-mile stages and standard itineraries, says FIA rally boss


Craig Breen‏
Verified account
*
@Craig_Breen
Craig Breen Retweeted Autosport
Really?

[Tarmop]

Probably some crazy idea in order to slowly introduce electrical cars. Or a reference to modern cars reliability.:D

[AL14]

Autosport‏
Verified account
#WRC's future should be six-mile stages and standard itineraries, says FIA rally boss


Craig Breen‏
Verified account
*
@Craig_Breen
Craig Breen Retweeted Autosport
Really?

https://i.imgur.com/BYCbhS7.png

[EstWRC]

Polo R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4IW0AEW9m1.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4JWsAIgVUD.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4CXkAQX0Ql.jpg


https://twitter.com/Mundo_Rally/status/937716033883959296

[Eli]

Polo R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4IW0AEW9m1.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4JWsAIgVUD.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvv4CXkAQX0Ql.jpg


https://twitter.com/Mundo_Rally/status/937716033883959296

Beautiful in my mind, probably will give it's competition a run for it's money...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why have they used a 5-door Polo body for the R5 ?

The WRC Polo was always the 3-door.

[Tarmop]

"It’s available as a five-door only. No more three-door, not even for the GTI. Yes, there will be a GTI, with a full-fat 200bhp."
by Top Gear magazine

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"It’s available as a five-door only. No more three-door, not even for the GTI. Yes, there will be a GTI, with a full-fat 200bhp."
by Top Gear magazine

Another 3-door bites the dust. :(

Many manufacturers are dropping them now for cost-cutting. I can understand this for proper hot-hatches, but the small ones really suit 3-doors.

[Mirek]

The funny thing is that the new "small" Polo is much bigger than Golf II (nearly as big as Golf III) and the wheelbase is larger than of Golf IV (nearly as large as Golf V)!

[Eli]

Another 3-door bites the dust. :(

Many manufacturers are dropping them now for cost-cutting. I can understand this for proper hot-hatches, but the small ones really suit 3-doors.

I also heard some time ago that the next Peugeot 208 will only come in a 5 door variant (yes for the GTi also....) so it looks like the beginning of the end for an era....

[sonnybobiche]

The size and mass of a family saloon, combined with the aesthetics of a hatchback.

I can't think of anything worse than that.

[RAS007]

Autosport‏
Verified account
#WRC's future should be six-mile stages and standard itineraries, says FIA rally boss


Craig Breen‏
Verified account
*
@Craig_Breen
Craig Breen Retweeted Autosport
Really?

Mahomo is retiring, and good riddance. 6 mile stages is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Let's cut Formula One races down to 10 laps while we're at, mmmmmmkay?

[AnttiL]

Mahomo is retiring, and good riddance. 6 mile stages is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Let's cut Formula One races down to 10 laps while we're at, mmmmmmkay?

I think what he means would be having a greater number of stages, but shorter stages, analog to having F1 on a 500 m circuit, but doing more laps. But yeah, I don't agree with that.

[er88]

I think what he means would be having a greater number of stages, but shorter stages, analog to having F1 on a 500 m circuit, but doing more laps. But yeah, I don't agree with that.Well thankfully the parasite will no longer be in position after the year is out.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Watson]

Mahomo is retiring, and good riddance. 6 mile stages is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Let's cut Formula One races down to 10 laps while we're at, mmmmmmkay?

Almost everything he ever said made me scratch my head. I'm glad he's going. I just hope whoever replaces him talks more sense.

[Barreis]

any link related with Mahonen's retiring?

[AnttiL]

Almost everything he ever said made me scratch my head. I'm glad he's going. I just hope whoever replaces him talks more sense.

It could be a turn to the worse. Imagine Jost Capito...

[Franky]

It could be a turn to the worse. Imagine Jost Capito...

Isn't he busy with VW again?

[AnttiL]

Isn't he busy with VW again?

I know that he's not applying for the job right now, but just saying that Mahonen could be replaced by someone with similar thoughts.

[rp]

Almost everything he ever said made me scratch my head. I'm glad he's going. I just hope whoever replaces him talks more sense.

Hopefully it will be Jarmo Lehtinen. Jost Capito would be rally bad choice...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I also heard some time ago that the next Peugeot 208 will only come in a 5 door variant (yes for the GTi also....) so it looks like the beginning of the end for an era....

Another reason to support Ford... Mk8 Fiesta ST will still have 3-door version. ;)

[Watson]

Hopefully it will be Jarmo Lehtinen. Jost Capito would be rally bad choice...

I think that's unlikely since he only just signed up as sporting director for Toyota.

Edit: I just mixed up him and Lindstrom. My bad.

[sonnybobiche]

I think Lehtinen is all but confirmed for the position, which is good, because he is a proper rally man. But then, Mahonen also was a proper rally man, and was really right about some things, even as he was very wrong about some others.

I think the best thing the FIA could do would be to keep a very 'light touch' approach to regulation. Naturally the instinct of every new appointee is to do something big and put his name on it, but I hope Lehtinen can resist that urge.

[Mirek]

According to ewrc.cz Pontus Tidemand recently started his own team Pontus Tidemand Racing and yesterday took a new Fabia R5 in Mladá Boleslav.

https://www.ewrc.cz/clanek/31504-pontus-tidemand-si-zalozil-vlastni-tym/

[skarderud]

According to ewrc.cz Pontus Tidemand recently started his own team Pontus Tidemand Racing and yesterday took a new Fabia R5 in Mladá Boleslav.

https://www.ewrc.cz/clanek/31504-pontus-tidemand-si-zalozil-vlastni-tym/It is a team together with jerker axelsson, the car is for rent. Pontus want to do some rallies at homesoil with it when ut fits in his program.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[RS]

According to ewrc.cz Pontus Tidemand recently started his own team Pontus Tidemand Racing and yesterday took a new Fabia R5 in Mladá Boleslav.

https://www.ewrc.cz/clanek/31504-pontus-tidemand-si-zalozil-vlastni-tym/

Did he get staff discount?

[RS]

Tidemand was testing yesterday with Skoda in Norway, so i presume he is staying put.

[pantealex]

Why have they used a 5-door Polo body for the R5 ?

The WRC Polo was always the 3-door.

WRC17 Polo is 5-door.

[rp]

WRC17 Polo is 5-door.

No it was not or what do you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3CKfkTL8xA

[Andre Oliveira]

Serderidis

Initial agenda for 2018:

- 23 February: Routes du Nord (Fr) DS3 WRC
- 25 March: Rallye des Ardennes (B) DS3 WRC
- 24 May: RS Haillot (B) DS3 WRC
-2-3 June ERC Acropolis (Gr) Skoda R5
- 16-19 August: WRC Deutschland (D) C3 WRC or Fiesta WRC 2017 (tbc)
- 16 November: WRC Australia (Aus) C3 WRC or Fiesta WRC 2017 (tbc)

[Tarmop]

No it was not or what do you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3CKfkTL8xA

Would have been*
Probably

[electroliquid]

R. Sirmacis from Latvia considering to participate in JWRC next season. http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/wrc/7490-sirmacis-simins-apsver-iespeju-nakamgad-startet-pasaules-rallija-cempionata/

[RS]

R. Sirmacis from Latvia considering to participate in JWRC next season. http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/wrc/7490-sirmacis-simins-apsver-iespeju-nakamgad-startet-pasaules-rallija-cempionata/

Would be a bit of a step back for Sirmacis having previously done well in R5 machinery but that is a good prize on offer..

[Essaj]

Would be a bit of a step back for Sirmacis having previously done well in R5 machinery but that is a good prize on offer..

R2 is still a lot better than not driving at all. Would be great if Sirmacis gets to do the whole season, he is/was one of the fastest U25 drivers

[AnttiL]

Also doing the JWRC gives you good media coverage.

[Simmi]

Also doing the JWRC gives you good media coverage.

And experience of the WRC rounds with less pressure.

[tommeke_B]

Also doing the JWRC gives you good media coverage.
Really?? I bet most forum members here couldn't say the names of the last JWRC-champions without having to look it up. And it's not cheap at all. ;)

[jonkka]

Really?? I bet most forum members here couldn't say the names of the last JWRC-champions without having to look it up. And it's not cheap at all. ;)

Agree. Support championships all are more or less bogus for visibility and mostly about gaining experience. Disclaimer: this is just my personal view not based on actual input from anyone who's contested in those series.

[electroliquid]

R2 is still a lot better than not driving at all. Would be great if Sirmacis gets to do the whole season, he is/was one of the fastest U25 drivers

Yes, and sometimes you need to make step back to do jump into next level. I think it could work for Sirmacis, and I hope so. Would be nice to see him in ERC/WRC2 with R5, but he has some financial troubles, so JWRC isn't worst possibility in career.

[pantealex]

JWRC is not cheap but WRC2 is way more expensive.

If you want to be World Champion you can´t drive in ERC forever, you just have to learn WRC events.

[AnttiL]

I wonder how much of WRC2 you could do with the JWRC season budget, with a chance to actually win. One rally?

[pantealex]

I wonder how much of WRC2 you could do with the JWRC season budget, with a chance to actually win. One rally?

2 if another is your home event.

[PLuto]

I dont know actual price for JWRC next year, but with this year price you can do easily 3-4 ERC races with R5, maybe more...

[janvanvurpa]

Also doing the JWRC gives you good media coverage.


It does? to be honest I have no idea at all about ANYTHING about JWRC..
Nothing about the cars, nothing about their spec--what is allowed to mod what isn't who and importantly costs of car, engine suspension and entries..
I read something--the regs oddly enough--shocking for the thing called Dubya Arsey Academy which to me looked like a scheme to make 1/4 million dollars off of rich people to drive in near last place over-all just so they can claim they are "Dubya Arsey Drajver" ...is that the same as JWRC?
What cars? what costs?

[Tarmop]

Identical R2T Fiestas prepared by M-Sport with Pirelli tyres next year. Competitors are chosen, winner gets to own a new Fiesta mk8 R5+ fuel and tyres from Pirell. Quite tempting...

[AnttiL]

I dont know actual price for JWRC next year, but with this year price you can do easily 3-4 ERC races with R5, maybe more...

That's why I said WRC2. ERC is just a hardcore rally fan thing or a regional thing in countries without a WRC rally.

If you get to top 5 in WRC2, even if you are 10 minutes behind the leader, you get your name on the WRC TV broadcast. And if you get to top 3, you'll get driving footage as well

[janvanvurpa]

Identical R2T Fiestas prepared by M-Sport with Pirelli tyres next year. Competitors are chosen, winner gets to own a new Fiesta mk8 R5+ fuel and tyres from Pirell. Quite tempting...

Don't understand because you begin with a sentence fragment. I understand about the "WRC Academy" having read their regs and costs structure...as i said it seems like a money grab..I was asking more about the Junior WRC--and what were costs.. Like lease a car for $xxxxxxx, entry $xxxx etc

[rallyfiend]

Don't understand because you begin with a sentence fragment. I understand about the "WRC Academy" having read their regs and costs structure...as i said it seems like a money grab..I was asking more about the Junior WRC--and what were costs.. Like lease a car for $xxxxxxx, entry $xxxx etc

You mean like these very public details? How should they have informed the world? A personal letter to you?

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r2/m-sport-announce-further-details-for-2018-fia-junior-world-rally-championship

[Tarmop]

In addition there are R2 challenges in national events, also with quite tempting amounts (to use in JWRC or JERC). So all in all, pretty much perfect to show yourself to manus and when really lucky, grab the prize.

[PLuto]

That's why I said WRC2. ERC is just a hardcore rally fan thing or a regional thing in countries without a WRC rally.

If you get to top 5 in WRC2, even if you are 10 minutes behind the leader, you get your name on the WRC TV broadcast. And if you get to top 3, you'll get driving footage as well

I dont think so. Bryan Bouffier was hugely disappointed with media coverage and everything around after his third place on Monte...

[CWJ]

FIA: From next season, drivers entered with R5 cars who are not registered in the FIA WRC 2 Championship, or who have not been entered by a registered WRC 2 Team during the year, may use any tyre brand, including those not nominated by the FIA for the WRC. This will ensure more local drivers have the possibility to compete in WRC events.

Wouldn't that be a good idea for R1 R2 R3 R4 as well ... ?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24775065_1951063881589696_8341009600946875092_n.jp g?oh=cb3a4e81d6516792677a7f8821c8c54d&oe=5AC1FA38

[rallyfiend]

FIA: From next season, drivers entered with R5 cars who are not registered in the FIA WRC 2 Championship, or who have not been entered by a registered WRC 2 Team during the year, may use any tyre brand, including those not nominated by the FIA for the WRC. This will ensure more local drivers have the possibility to compete in WRC events.

Wouldn't that be a good idea for R1 R2 R3 R4 as well ... ?

It already is, and has been for some years.

[RICARDO75]

David Holder with JWRC program
https://rallysportmag.com/kiwi-david-holder-announces-2018-junior-wrc-program/

[AnttiL]

I dont think so. Bryan Bouffier was hugely disappointed with media coverage and everything around after his third place on Monte...

I re-watched the WRC2 Highlights reel from WRC+ and Bouffier was featured with driving footage every day. That's enough of coverage to me considering he lost 6 minutes to the class winner. And no other drivers were shown except the top 3 (and Camilli, who had an off). And obviously Mikkelsen being a previous WRC driver got a lot attention.

[AnttiL]

http://www.ralli.net/uutiset/ralli/14955-kenia-havittelee-mm-rallia-2020-tekeek-maineikas-safari-ralli-paluun

Apparently Kenya is aiming to get Safari Rally back on the WRC calendar in 2020. They had talked about it during the annual FIA meetings in Paris.

[sonnybobiche]

Sadly, the only way to get it accepted by this generation of bureaucrats and nancy boys is to run it on relatively short, private, closed roads. So basically all of the expense of the old Safari (and more) without any of the excitement, adventure, risk, or spectacle. So long as these same people are in charge and have the same attitudes they've had since the early 2000s, this sport is in a death spiral, just like F1. There will be no Safari, and even if there is, it will not be Safari, but a pale imitation.

[AnttiL]

Sadly, the only way to get it accepted by this generation of bureaucrats and nancy boys is to run it on relatively short, private, closed roads. So basically all of the expense of the old Safari (and more) without any of the excitement, adventure, risk, or spectacle. So long as these same people are in charge and have the same attitudes they've had since the early 2000s, this sport is in a death spiral, just like F1. There will be no Safari, and even if there is, it will not be Safari, but a pale imitation.

And there's no more Rally Finland because they don't drive 24 hours straight without sleeping. And no Monte Carlo because there's no concentration run. And no Tour de Corse because there's no 4 hours of stages within a day. Even Rally Poland in the recent years was just a pale imitation because the stages were closed from public traffic.

Seriously though, a modern Safari could be like this:

Thursday
Super Special 1 km

Friday
Stage A 40 km
Stage B 40 km
Service
Stage A2 40 km
Stage B2 40 km
Service
Stage C 50 km

Saturday
Stage C2 50 km
Service
Stage D 80 km
Service
Stage D2 80 km

Sunday
Stage E 40 km
Power Stage F 20 km

Total length: 481 km

I mean, the Safaris from the 80's had over 4000 kms of competitive sections...nowadays we have the same amount in a season.

[BigWorm]

10 kilometer stages in Safari - now that's a horrible thought.

[dimviii]

Makinen agree with Mahonen
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/wrc-split-on-mahonens-plan-for-shorter-stages/

[Allez Andruet]

Makinen agree with Mahonen
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/wrc-split-on-mahonens-plan-for-shorter-stages/

Tommi please... what the hell is this nonsense:
More shorter stages means more social media and more coverage for the sport.

Where does this (il)logic come from? Mahonen was spouting the same shit in that earlier story... where have these guys bought their consultancy services from?

[J_n_z]

If we adapt life to youngsters span of attention instead of span of attention to life there is no bright future for us...

Rally is not mainstream sport and it will never be, it is to difficult for a football-head to understand.

[ESTR]

Guys look on the bright side. Well it would depends only by seconds every stage and that would be even more awesome than it is. Drivers would be pushing even more and maybe just maybe a few more in the game for drivers title... just my opinion.

[pantealex]

Friday
Stage A 40 km
Stage B 40 km
Service
Stage A2 40 km
Stage B2 40 km
Service
Stage C 50 km

Saturday
Stage C2 50 km
Service
Stage D 80 km
Service
Stage D2 80 km

Sunday
Stage E 40 km
Power Stage F 20 km

Almost perfect, but you forgot 1 small thing: Power Stage must be stage which have been used in rally before, so not new road but second pass of some used special stage.
edit. maybe part of some other stage is also acceptable, so this could be perfect as it is now.

[AnttiL]

Almost perfect, but you forgot 1 small thing: Power Stage must be stage which have been used in rally before, so not new road but second pass of some used special stage.

Except in Tour de Corse they don't have to do it :D

[Andre Oliveira]

What a farse

Youngs only have interest on what? And football game with 90m?
I agree with Nandan, we can't lost rally DNA.
Tommi said what about actual cars not made to endurance? Talk by your car and the problems that existed in 2017.
Media difficult to follow rally? Really? With all the technologies of current society you can do worst than 80s!
Promoter should be concern to have more coverage and more quality coverage. Rally is not a live tv sport (only PS), catch the images, select the best and show them!

[er88]

Shut up Makinen. Idiot

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[RS]

I re-watched the WRC2 Highlights reel from WRC+ and Bouffier was featured with driving footage every day.

What did that total? About 15 seconds?

Come on, media coverage is not a factor in WRC2s favour. Once they talked about a half hour WRC2 highlights show from each rally. Did it happen? No.

The only time they get decent coverage is when so many WRC crews have retired that they have to show them on live stages.

[nafpaktos]

the problem is that the wrc is fucked up by people who knew the sport better than anybody.First of all david richards,mahonen,capito (tried),mouton,now makinen,WHAT IS GOING ON?????????????????????????????

[er88]

Makinen probably wants shorter stages and more trips to service in between them, seeing as he's failed to produce a reliable car that can last big mileage loops of stages :D ;)

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Tarmop]

Toyota had problems mostly on one, sometimes two cars. Other cars in the hand of those drivers also tended to have reliability issues that their teammates didn`t. Call it bad luck, car errors or driving...

[AnttiL]

Tommi please... what the hell is this nonsense:
More shorter stages means more social media and more coverage for the sport.

Where does this (il)logic come from?

Nobody tweets about split times, but all the driver accounts post the stage times and post-stage comments. It's almost horrible to read a twitter feed during a rally when every driver has to tweet the stage results and overall result after the stage, even though I'm following it on the wrc results page anyway. And of course the stage comments are posted in english and the native language. So if we would split a 40 km stage into four stages, we would get four times as much social media posts.

Also, since split times are not really "official", no media will write a news story about "Tänak flying in the splits". No, they will write about how it was at the end of the stage.

I'm not saying this is what the sport needs, but this is the logic they're thinking through.

[AndyRAC]

Tommi please... what the hell is this nonsense:
More shorter stages means more social media and more coverage for the sport.

Where does this (il)logic come from? Mahonen was spouting the same shit in that earlier story... where have these guys bought their consultancy services from?

So can someone explain the success of 12/ 24 Hour races; Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, Bathurst, Sebring, etc Nobody has thought they are all too long, and should be reduced in distance.....

If you continue to chase the mythical 'casual' fan, we really will end up with a RallyCross extreme version of rallying.....
Just stop this nonsense - they've already sold out for TV....Enough is enough!!

[Mirek]

So can someone explain the success of 12/ 24 Hour races; Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, Bathurst, Sebring, etc Nobody has thought they are all too long, and should be reduced in distance.....

... or Dakar or Silk Way...

[Watson]

So can someone explain the success of 12/ 24 Hour races; Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, Bathurst, Sebring, etc Nobody has thought they are all too long, and should be reduced in distance.....

If you continue to chase the mythical 'casual' fan, we really will end up with a RallyCross extreme version of rallying.....
Just stop this nonsense - they've already sold out for TV....Enough is enough!!

Well, endurance racing is actually realtively easy to produce TV production for. The reason is simply that eventhough the Nordschleife and Circuit de la Sarthe (or any other) are very long, the cars always stay in the same place. So you can just place the cameras and leave them there. I always watch those races cause they're interesting and the live broadcast at least in Europe is very good and extensive.

With the WRC or any rally series for that matter the problem is that you'd need loads more cameras and staff to do much live broadcasting.

I am very much against shortening stages. However, I'd like to see them maybe add one or two more live stages a day if at all possible, but not at the cost of removing the long stages. If anything, add a couple of 10 to 15 km 'broadcastable' stages to the existing ones.

[AnttiL]

So can someone explain the success of 12/ 24 Hour races; Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa, Bathurst, Sebring, etc Nobody has thought they are all too long, and should be reduced in distance.....

If you continue to chase the mythical 'casual' fan, we really will end up with a RallyCross extreme version of rallying.....
Just stop this nonsense - they've already sold out for TV....Enough is enough!!

No one has said WRC rallies should be 150 km long. Shorter stages, but more of them keeps the total distance equal

[BigWorm]

For me, the appeal of the WRC is the variety it has. Not only are surfaces, weather and daylight/dark stages the challenges in the sport, but also stage length is a challenge in itself. Keeping stages the same distance would be more monotonous and I find it far more interesting to see the who's the best tackling different challenges. I understand what they're trying to do but personally I think keeping stage distances the same throughout a rally is not what rallying is about.

[Watson]

No one has said WRC rallies should be 150 km long. Shorter stages, but more of them keeps the total distance equal

That would still bother me though. Part of the appeal of rallying is that the crews have to keep up their concentration for extended amounts of time, keeping up their rythm, dealing with issues, trying to stay troublefree no matter the weather.

I know what Andy means by saying it gives it a smell of rallycross. The total distance is not the whole story. It would just feel like a rallycross event with an insane amount of heats.

[AnttiL]

When we talk about the endurance element of rallying, it's worth remembering that the current cars have to tackle up to 80 kms of stages and maybe 200 kms of liaison between services. Back in the days you could have the service van waiting for you right after the flying finish. And when the race was over, you could just have a completely new engine built.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's total nonsense about shorter rallies/stages to gain more fans.

I grew up with the Group B era and no internet/social media.. but following rally and nightly TV (RAC Rally) was still possible and interesting even over 5 days & 50+ stages.

And Rallying was the most popular and mainstream it's ever been.

[AndyRAC]

I do wonder if Red Bull have had a word in Mahonen's ears, and he's put the suggestion out there, to see what the reaction is. An old Bernie tactic.....

[AnttiL]

It's total nonsense about shorter rallies/stages to gain more fans.

I grew up with the Group B era and no internet/social media.. but following rally and nightly TV (RAC Rally) was still possible and interesting even over 5 days & 50+ stages.

And Rallying was the most popular and mainstream it's ever been.

And 1000 Lakes Rally almost went bankrupt those days because the stages were mostly under 10 kms long (https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-1986), it just wasn't appealing to anyone :rolleyes: