[WRC] News & Rumours 2018 [Archive] - Page 8

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ESTR

13th June 2018, 13:28

er88

13th June 2018, 13:38

Budar said for next year Citroen will have a 1st driver capable winning on any surface.

I can't see Neuville or Tanak going there, and don't see why Ogier would go back unless he's given a mammoth salary and is really eyeing to win the championship with 3 different manufacturers.

Paddon is not a driver who can win on any surface.

PLuto

13th June 2018, 13:39

Paddon is not a driver who can win on any surface.

Paddon is not "winning driver". He is on same level like Breen or Ostberg.

nafpaktos

13th June 2018, 14:05

I think ostberg is a little bit worse compared to the other two you mentioned,plus he has already reached his full potential.The other two i think have space for improvement.

Watson

13th June 2018, 15:47

I think ostberg is a little bit worse compared to the other two you mentioned,plus he has already reached his full potential.The other two i think have space for improvement.
Breen probably Paddon, I'm not sure. It's quite amazing that we have so many bipolar drivers in Paddon, Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Latvala and Evans at the moment. One moment they look proper quick, the next you're really disappointed.

EstWRC

13th June 2018, 17:06

Sulland

13th June 2018, 17:26

Maybe Lappi is the man. Then they get a man on his way up. If they want a more secure solution, Latvala as a clear number one, is still a winner imo.

danon

13th June 2018, 18:30

Budar said for next year Citroen will have a 1st driver capable winning on any surface...
:D

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/48/27/WRC-Rallye-Sardinien-2018-132_482730_5b1cd9177.jpg

sonnybobiche

13th June 2018, 18:59

Why are the regulations so anti-testing in the top end of the motorsport? The teams would spend that money anyway trying to find the extra advantage. Be it simulations or whatever ways they'll find

Because the FIA is run by worthless economic illiterates and they don't understand that testing is the cheapest way to improve your car. So they continually fall prey to the Toto Wolffs and Jost Capitos of the world, who understand economics very well, and understand that the more complicated regulations and arbitrary constraints they add to the rule book, the more expensive it makes every percent of performance gain. And that means they can outperform other teams by outspending them rather than out-innovating them.

And if you can benefit yourself and screw over your competitors while appearing to care about the plight of the poorer teams, well, that's just gravy on top.

dimviii

13th June 2018, 19:06

Latvala: Citroen wrong to drop Meeke from WRC squad mid-season

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136723/latvala-citroen-wrong-to-drop-meeke-midseason?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

dimviii

13th June 2018, 19:15

Gary KiwiWRCfan

More
Rally Trivia
Fastest stage wins by 2018 #WRC rally
Monte Carlo - Thierry Neuville
Sweden - Hayden Paddon
Mexico - Sebastien Ogier
Tour de Corse - Sébastien Loeb
Argentina - Ott Tanak
Portugal - Hayden Paddon
Sardegna - Sebastien Ogier

Rally Power

13th June 2018, 19:19

Budar said for next year Citroen will have a 1st driver capable winning on any surface.

Got the idea that quote was about the car; he believes the C3 can now win on any surface.

Anyway, is Latvala granted in Toyota next year? Besides Latvala (the only top driver possibly available) there are other options as good as Paddon: Suninen, he’ll be more experienced after this season and ready for a full WRC seat as a paid driver; Hanninen, he showed a strong pace during last season 2nd part and was still eager to compete; Tidemand: if Breen manages to deliver as team leader, the Swede would be great as second driver. And there’s also Sordo: he looks perfect to share the 3rd car with Ostberg or to get a full program, if he’s still interested.

Bottom line: as long as Citroen gets a proper budget, signing competitive drivers won’t be that hard.

dimviii

13th June 2018, 19:23

nice statitics
https://rallyparadise.wordpress.com/wrc/

dimviii

13th June 2018, 19:25

"We have fixed budget requirements in which everything is included, additional logistics costs have to be saved elsewhere, we manufacturers are all in the same boat and agree," says Citroen team principal Pierre Budar.
So, together with the WRC promoter, they worked out a list of austerity measures. This involves, among other things, the compression of a World Cup run to shorten the length of stay on site, but above all to the deletion of the available test days.
Enrolled teams are currently allowed to test for 55 days, and in the future only 30 will be allowed. Just by this measure could be financed according to internal calculations, two more Überseeläufe.

However, there was no consensus on this point. Toyota should have spoken out against a restriction in the test days. It would be no surprise, because the troupe of Tommi Mäkinen has the largest budget in the World Rally Championship.

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/06/12/deutliche-reduzierung-der-testtage-geplant/

sonnybobiche

13th June 2018, 19:46

If Pierre Budar actually thinks that Citroen will be able to be competitive when they have even less time to work out the problems with their car, then Pierre Budar is a moron.

Hey, why not save even more money and ban testing entirely, like the idiots in F1? That worked out really well for McLaren, Williams, Force India, Sauber, and Toro Rosso. They're saving loads and loads of money by not being able to test and having to make half-informed guesses at how they should set up the cars. And Ferrari and Mercedes are finding it so difficult to stay ahead of the rest of the field now that they can't just go out and test whenever they want. It's not like they can afford $50M indoor rolling-road facilities to get around the testing ban.

macebig

13th June 2018, 21:37

Pretty much. Cutting test days is totally stupid. Especially since every team has a short special stage on their backyards.

sollitt

14th June 2018, 00:45

Paddon is not "winning driver". He is on same level like Breen or Ostberg.

Paddon is indeed a "winning driver" and, on his day, on same level as Neuville, Mikellsen, Tanak etc ... And capable of doing so on any surface when all his stars are aligned.
Citroen will be looking at him but he'll be at Hyundai for 2019.

N.O.T

14th June 2018, 00:51

Paddon is indeed a "winning driver" and, on his day, on same level as Neuville, Mikellsen, Tanak etc ... And capable of doing so on any surface when all his stars are aligned.

on his day....

all stars alligned....

In other words he is not a winning driver... maybe he is a winner on social media wars.

After that amazing argentina win he became nothing and remains there for far too long to be considered for anything, apart from NZ drives on village events to promote local car sales

sollitt

14th June 2018, 03:37

In other words he is not a winning driver... Most people of sound mind N.O.T would know that to win in this game it has to be your day. There are too many variables, some of ones own making, others not, for it to be otherwise. He has already proven to be a "winning driver" and those of us who pay attention can see that he still has all the capability necessary. He just needs to go out and do it.

Allez Andruet

14th June 2018, 04:47

Paddon is indeed a "winning driver" and, on his day, on same level as Neuville, Mikellsen, Tanak etc ... And capable of doing so on any surface when all his stars are aligned.
Citroen will be looking at him but he'll be at Hyundai for 2019.

Nothing against Paddon, but what Citroen needs more than anything for 2019 is a driver who's capable of winning every day. I.e. Citroen needs either Ogier, Neuville or Tänak and as the latter is contractually bound to Toyota for 2019, that leaves Ogier and Neuville for Budar to chase on.

racerx1979

14th June 2018, 05:17

No way Neuville is leaving Hyundai. That i20 is built around him. Would take years to do that with another team.

racerx1979

14th June 2018, 05:18

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 06:09

Tidemand would be a great choice in my opinion. Sure he will take time to get up to speed but he has good experience. Skoda is not planning on getting involved until 2020 so he could easily sign a 1 yr contract to get his feet wet.

Do you think Skoda would allow that if they're truly going for a WRC program? Or if Tidemand would get a seat at Citroen, he would want to return to Skoda?

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 06:10

On the topic of Paddon, I think there are two main issues between him and a championship title

1) He is not good on tarmac
2) He is not good on power stages

BigWorm

14th June 2018, 06:35

On the topic of Paddon, I think there are two main issues between him and a championship title

1) He is not good on tarmac

Which is also why he's not contesting the full season

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 07:01

Which is also why he's not contesting the full season

And also why he is not developing his tarmac skills

tommeke_B

14th June 2018, 07:31

On the topic of Paddon, I think there are two main issues between him and a championship title

1) He is not good on tarmac
2) He is not good on power stages

3) Active diffs

Tarmop

14th June 2018, 07:35

Do you think Skoda would allow that if they're truly going for a WRC program? Or if Tidemand would get a seat at Citroen, he would want to return to Skoda?

I don`t think Škoda would object learning with a WRC car for one year on others expense. Citroen on the otherhand...

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 07:40

3) Active center diff

Good call, but it could also be just car-driver-specific. It's been said that Neuville developed the new i20 more to his driving style.

It's interesting though that Latvala has a similar sideways style but active diffs have always suited him better.

EstWRC

14th June 2018, 07:59

Paddon is indeed a "winning driver" and, on his day, on same level as Neuville, Mikellsen, Tanak etc ... And capable of doing so on any surface when all his stars are aligned.
Citroen will be looking at him but he'll be at Hyundai for 2019.

im a huge Paddon fan but i dont agree with this part at all. Like some have mentioned already here he is quite poor on tarmac IMO. And through the years i havent seen any progress from him at all and that is quite worrying.

i think at one year he even had a some coach helping him?

mknight

14th June 2018, 08:15

And also why he is not developing his tarmac skills

Well one really has to wonder about this.

He should be driving tarmac in Portugal/Italy/Spain/France in every free period (and he has many since he does not do full season). Get own sponsors to pay for it or even pay with own money.

If not then at least do some circuit racing with simple cars (ex. Caterhams). Instead he is driving gravel rallies in nz/australia.

sonnybobiche

14th June 2018, 08:23

As I recall, Tanak had a reputation for being pretty inadequate on tarmac until relatively recently. Some people are slow learners, but their maximum potential may be higher than the fast learners. I'm not saying someone like Meeke deserves another shot, because after a certain point you really can't teach an old dog new tricks, but I think Paddon is currently undervalued. That spectacular win against Ogier in Argentina didn't come from nowhere.

What's Robert Kubica doing other than sitting around muttering to himself in a Williams garage? Pay him to come by a couple of times a week and teach Paddon all the secrets to being quick on tarmac in a rally car.

GravelBen

14th June 2018, 10:13

Looking through his results most of his WRC tarmac placings are around 5th-6th, so while he hasn't been challenging for wins on tarmac he has been generally finishing rallies and taking consistent points from them (and the occasional stage win from memory).

I do agree that it would help his driving to spend more time gaining tarmac experience though - I was suprised Hyundai didn't run an R5 this year for Paddon and Sordo to take turns driving when they aren't in the WRC car, seemed like it would be a smart thing to do.

Many of his sponsors are back here in NZ though, so he has to come and do home rallies as well for sponsor commitments etc. Plus the roads are better here. ;)

bandit12

14th June 2018, 10:15

Good call, but it could also be just car-driver-specific. It's been said that Neuville developed the new i20 more to his driving style.

It's interesting though that Latvala has a similar sideways style but active diffs have always suited him better.

I would love to see thread, where differernt driving styles were analysed....

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 10:20

Looking through his results most of his WRC tarmac placings are around 5th-6th, so while he hasn't been challenging for wins on tarmac he has been generally finishing rallies and taking consistent points from them (and the occasional stage win from memory).

Last year in Deutschland he got a couple of 2nd and 3rd stage times but that was on Saturday and Sunday when he was starting as the second car after Armin Kremer, who probably didn't cut and pull dirt to the road as much as the proper factory drivers. Other than that, not quite impressive pace. In Tour de Corse he managed one fourth place, mostly 6-8 positions. I'm not saying he's as bad as Kankkunen on the last years of his career, but if he wants to win a championship, he needs to have a podium pace on every rally, on any surface.

Franky

14th June 2018, 10:46

I would love to see thread, where differernt driving styles were analysed....

Search for a thread called Nose-End First or something like that here.

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 10:52

http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39819-WRC-drivers-styles-and-techniques

here you go, but it doesn't really have much other than speculation

greencroft

14th June 2018, 12:38

Search for a thread called Nose-End First or something like that here.

Here is a link to Lundefaret commenting on Paddon and "Nose End First" technique:

https://rallirinki.net/2016/07/06/credits-to-ole-from-norway-man-who-wants-to-make-paddon-a-world-champion/

EstWRC

14th June 2018, 13:29

Teams not satisfied with Sardinia and Corsica https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136737/wrc-team-pushing-for-sardinia-2019-boycott

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 13:40

I understand the concern. Actually I was wondering why there were so little people in the service park on the images behind the All Live announcers. But then again, the mainland France rally won't be as awesome as Tour de Corse? Italy could have something like San Remo to offer instead...

EstWRC

14th June 2018, 14:08

i like Sardinia but i wouldnt mind dropping Corsica, i have said it earlier too...its has been the most boring event every year IMO.

Franky

14th June 2018, 14:21

If they are worried about flight connections, then maybe hold a rally on the grounds of Frankfurt airport e.g.

Mäkinen is starting to sound worse than Capito

AnttiL

14th June 2018, 14:23

I think it just sounds like an excuse to create a space for new rallies on the calendar. And Mäkinen has a motive to push for Rally Japan.

Duvel

14th June 2018, 20:03

Teams not satisfied with Sardinia and Corsica https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136737/wrc-team-pushing-for-sardinia-2019-boycott

I think the low number of spectators on saturday midday service is because the stages are to far away.

I for one hope the rally will stay in Sardinia, its a nice event! about flight connections, i think there are options enough.

A move back in the calander would be nice! the October date was best in my opinion.

14th June 2018, 20:14

New Skoda Motorsport HQ:

https://skoda-ms.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/05/SKMS.JPG.jpg

SubaruNorway

14th June 2018, 21:22

If you listened to Miki Biasion's old co driver Tiziano Siviero on All Live who is the stage commander or something like that, they really care about making the rally a proper one and want the fans to be able to see as much as possible which can not be said for some rallies on the calendar.
When did we see a crowd like that at the end of powerstage? That's what counts not some people hanging around at the service park when they should be out spectating, nothing interesing to see apart for the end of day interviews in my opinion. Sardinia was great when i went in 2011 and It looks really good in Alghero now. You could even get direct flights to Olbia on a Saturday and Wednesday from Norway, regret like a pig i didn't go!

mknight

15th June 2018, 00:05

PLuto

15th June 2018, 00:06

I must say, when I am going to spectate the rally, I am usually not interested in visiting service, especially during the rally. Maybe before rally or after, but not during.

nafpaktos

15th June 2018, 00:21

Colin Clark "praying" for Wilson to "rescue" Meeke:

https://www.facebook.com/720282531/posts/10155735145107532/

It would be nice, even as a 3rd driver for 2019 if Ogier stays (Ogier-Evans-Meeke) it would be interesting for multiple reasons. I somehow doubt it though. Not like he came to "rescue" McRae after he got kicked from Citroen in 2004.

If the wrc rules about the privateers loose,which is a big possibility, i dont think meeke has a place to msport.

Toyoda

15th June 2018, 04:03

BigWorm

15th June 2018, 07:05

Colin Clark "praying" for Wilson to "rescue" Meeke:

https://www.facebook.com/720282531/posts/10155735145107532/

It would be nice, even as a 3rd driver for 2019 if Ogier stays (Ogier-Evans-Meeke) it would be interesting for multiple reasons. I somehow doubt it though. Not like he came to "rescue" McRae after he got kicked from Citroen in 2004.

Don't know how much Meeke wants in salary, but McRae had the highest salary of the drivers in 2003 and combined with his results at that that time it probably didn't win him a seat for 2004. Meeke might have different wage demands.

sindroms

15th June 2018, 07:47

I must say, when I am going to spectate the rally, I am usually not interested in visiting service, especially during the rally. Maybe before rally or after, but not during.

It depends on taste of course but in my case also service park visiting is nothing more than gap filling option. When you have plenty of time before rally/between loops then "ok, we can fill in the time by service park visiting".

GravelBen

15th June 2018, 08:09

It depends on taste of course but in my case also service park visiting is nothing more than gap filling option. When you have plenty of time before rally/between loops then "ok, we can fill in the time by service park visiting".

Same here, the only time I actually make an effort to go to service parks is to spend a few minutes catching up with friends who are competing.

PLuto

15th June 2018, 08:11

Especially now with monster buildings from manufacturers, where spectators are standing too far from the teams and cars...

racerx1979

15th June 2018, 09:18

Do you think Skoda would allow that if they're truly going for a WRC program? Or if Tidemand would get a seat at Citroen, he would want to return to Skoda?

Would you wait on Skoda if you were Pontus? Tough question either way.

Rallyper

15th June 2018, 09:24

I´m sure Pontus isn´t alone in taking decisions. Inhouse Skoda they very well know how to deal with his future as well, I think.

macebig

15th June 2018, 11:18

Wilson couldn't bring McRae back for 2004.Ford was losing a lot of money back then and were cutting down motorsport budgets (got out of F1 by the end of the year). And Colin always wanted a high salary. Richards tried to bring him back to Subaru because he knew he was very marketable but even then they couldn't agree on a salary. Plus, rules changed allowing only two cars per manufacturer.

Marcco

15th June 2018, 12:08

Re Paddon
I asked this on his FB

How does Thierry's driving style differ from yours, is your driving style closer to Andrea's and do you collaborate on setups?, Also have you solved the setup issues with i20 or is it inherently designed for a different driving style? Big Congrats on a solid drive!

His answer
Thierry is driving somewhat straighter/smoother although equally committed. He is being efficient with the car. While my way to drive is prob closer to Andreas than Thierry, I also know it is effective if all the stars align. I have been struggling with the front diff setup for 18 months with this car now but myself and the team know the answers, but how we implement this is yet to be seen. In the meantime we have a small compromise with what is available and trying to do the best job possible with that.

IMO if you have a compromised setup you are going to leak time no matter how committed you are. I feel he still has the speed he is just not willing to throw it away in the hunt for wins like some such as Meeke.
I think, it is evident, that stars need to be aligned if you want to win. Every single driver has different driving technique, every single event is different, every single corner of a rally is different… so, many stars need to be aligned in order to win…
Some drivers/teams manage it better some worse. Mr. Loeb had advantage of being in one team his whole career. Ogier had the same possibility with VW, until they pulled the plug, and he was struggling in the beginning when he went to Ford, but at that time had enough experience and credibility to push for changes. Neuville had some hard time with first generation i20, while Paddon was doing alright with it. Tanak, looks like, was perfect match for Yaris, or he has unique skill to set it up right (or a bit of both). If you crash too much or you are to slow, no team will be willing to compromise their car to your liking, especially if you are not their “#1”. It’s different in each case and it is really easy to get lost for young gun like Paddon or others.

At this point it could be beneficial for Paddon to switch to Citroen (if they are ready to commit long-term), of course risky, but current situation at Hyundai ain’t good for him.

15th June 2018, 12:17

Would you wait on Skoda if you were Pontus? Tough question either way.

I'm sure Skoda (and probably Pontus) already know what Skoda are doing in the future, even if they say 'nothing has been decided yet'

It would still be a tough call for him though, especially as he is already knocking on a bit and Skoda have plenty of other drivers in stock.

ESTR

15th June 2018, 12:33

Looks like Ogier is trying to get him a better salary again playing by retirement or staying at M-Sport.

Rally Power

15th June 2018, 13:41

Looks like Ogier is trying to get him a better salary again playing by retirement or staying at M-Sport.

You’re probably mentioning this: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136764/ogier-likely-to-stay-at-msport-or-retire

Sometimes Evans mix old quotes with recent ones on his pieces, so it’s not easy to know if Ogier is still considering pulling out from rally. I believe he isn’t, but having these constant rumours about a possible retirement of the WRC champion is becoming annoying and doesn’t favor the series. Hope one of these days Ogier will come out and say he’s more than happy to continue for a long time and that there’s nothing as exciting as the WRC!

sonnybobiche

15th June 2018, 15:41

Ogier is a smart guy and he definitely knows how much he's worth. That said, I would be amazed if he were to go to Citroen for anything short of "never have to work again" money. Maybe not even then. He wants ten championships.

He went to MSport because he has massive respect for Malcolm Wilson and he thought the Toyota was much worse than it turned out to be. But last year they pulled off one of the greatest cinderella stories in motorsports history, and now they have significant technical backing from Ford, Ogier is still getting paid what he deserves (although probably not nearly as much as at VW considering all those victory bonuses he used to get), and he doesn't have to do any PR stuff.

IF Ogier were to return to Citroen, it would only be after ironclad assurances of a long-term commitment to the sport with enough budget and technical resources to make it a winning car. And given the might of Toyota and Hyundai, that's a very big ask. I don't envy Pierre Budar his job.

EstWRC

15th June 2018, 16:48

Colin Clark "praying" for Wilson to "rescue" Meeke:

https://www.facebook.com/720282531/posts/10155735145107532/

It would be nice, even as a 3rd driver for 2019 if Ogier stays (Ogier-Evans-Meeke) it would be interesting for multiple reasons. I somehow doubt it though. Not like he came to "rescue" McRae after he got kicked from Citroen in 2004.

what the hell did i just read?

And to Colin Clrak, Wilson has always invested in young upcoming drivers and he already said that he isnt interested in Meeke.

jbmarcus21

15th June 2018, 16:57

Except Mikkelsen & Tänak, 90% of free agent in the end of 2018 : #musicalchair ? ► http://bit.ly/2l9PDdQ

denkimi

15th June 2018, 18:52

ESTR

15th June 2018, 19:55

He went to MSport because he has massive respect for Malcolm Wilson and he thought the Toyota was much worse than it turned out to be.

Like there was any interest from other teams. Hyundai didn't want him in 2017, neither in 2018 (but already have 4 signed drivers). Citroen, OK the joke team who think back then that Ogier will drive for free. Toyota is finish so that tells all. Only M-Sport want him badly and get him. And I'm sure if Hyundai would offer him a seat he wouldn't even consider about M-Sport at all. It was his only option.

2019 things will be different. I think if Neuville and Hyundai will win the both titles or at least one they would offer Neuville more or even don't bother giving shot to that frenchie. They have a great rival, a great car, a massive budget, a great support driver (I mean Sordo). Toyota is not in the game. Citroen is poor, they don't even have for test days. So again only option MW's Fiesta with few bucks american nascar guys and free drinks from Redbull.

Tarmop

15th June 2018, 20:12

You seriously suggest that Hyundai didn`t wish a 4-time WDC and a driver who developed a 4 time manu. champ. car, with no titles since 2013, in their team? You must be joking.
History with Citroen, not allowing to test the car and probably something else was their problem (generally bad managment again).
And Toyota, well, he didn`t like it probably, although it seems Mäkinen wanted a finnish team that time also, like you said.

Bad managment is what made him choose M-Sport. And the fact that he has respect for Wilson also ofc.

stefanvv

15th June 2018, 20:35

Ogier is in M-Sport because he wants to be there.

BigWorm

17th June 2018, 17:36

EstWRC

18th June 2018, 00:32

SPOTLIGHT on current WRC tyre developments

https://rallysportmag.com/spotlight-on-current-wrc-tyre-developments180618/

Fast Eddie WRC

18th June 2018, 12:43

ESTR

18th June 2018, 14:58

Ogier basically told M-Sport that they needed to get Ford back for him to stay. This was done and so I dont see any reason for him to leave.

The Fiesta has remained fast and strong and upgrades are coming.

Now he said if the offer is right he would leave. Everything is turning around the money and even if he is happy where he is, it can easily change.

stefanvv

18th June 2018, 15:07

Now he said if the offer is right he would leave. Everything is turning around the money and even if he is happy where he is, it can easily change.

That doesn't mean it's about money. Toyota already has offered him nice pile of bux when VW left, he refused believing the car is not good. Citroen are in not good position to offer him better C3 than Fiesta.

rallyfiend

18th June 2018, 15:50

That doesn't mean it's about money. Toyota already has offered him nice pile of bux when VW left, he refused believing the car is not good. Citroen are in not good position to offer him better C3 than Fiesta.

Yes, but that was when he had the back-up of a year's payout from VW in his pocket...

Tarmop

18th June 2018, 16:19

You think he is starving?

dimviii

18th June 2018, 16:44

DMACK Tyres
‏
Our Tarmac tyre development is making strong progress, we’ve got a two-day test to try out 12 new prototypes of a new hard compound tyre. #gohardorgohome

https://twitter.com/DMACK_Tyres/status/1008721112648253441

jbmarcus21

18th June 2018, 18:05

Last preparation this monday for Hyundaï i20R5 Neuville-Gilsoul for @ypresrally : full gallery ► http://bit.ly/2yorqKw

Fast Eddie WRC

18th June 2018, 21:29

Now he said if the offer is right he would leave. Everything is turning around the money and even if he is happy where he is, it can easily change.

Ogier: "I'm happy with where I am at, I always said that. Everything is going in the direction I want it to at M-Sport. We are progressing and when it's like this you could say there is no reason to change. Let's say this: I would really need a very convincing offer to move, because I'm happy where I am."

'A very convincing offer' is not really about money - he wants a good car and to win titles.

jbmarcus21

19th June 2018, 16:52

Sébastien Loeb is back to Legend Hillclimb race in France for september with Peugeot 208 PIKES PEAK ► http://bit.ly/2I0QdUh

pantealex

20th June 2018, 09:20

Citroen WRC:
Östberg all remaining except Catalonia
Loeb only Catalonia
Al-Qassimi Finland, Turkey and Catalonia

AnttiL

20th June 2018, 10:02

Also, Breen got the Spain drive he wasn’t planned on doing

itix

20th June 2018, 10:05

Breen probably Paddon, I'm not sure. It's quite amazing that we have so many bipolar drivers in Paddon, Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Latvala and Evans at the moment. One moment they look proper quick, the next you're really disappointed.To be fair, we have quite short memories. It wasn't long ago that we thought Neuville was finished.

The only consistent force is Ogier. No matter what you put him in, he will reach maximum potential.

AL14

20th June 2018, 10:29

Breen probably Paddon, I'm not sure. It's quite amazing that we have so many bipolar drivers in Paddon, Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Latvala and Evans at the moment. One moment they look proper quick, the next you're really disappointed.

The fact is that we are talking about a sport where you drive a car on the limit for 3 days and 300 kms in real roads with obstacles, dangers and quick decisions to be made all the time.
At WRC level it take a huge amount of effort to gain one second in a km and nothing to lose everything.
You are continuously on the edge of the edge between success and failure.
Unless you reach the level of a legend like Loeb or Ogier, it only takes a little variable to change everything and turn you from a potential WDC to help Desbourough to comment the Power Stage...

itix

20th June 2018, 10:32

The fact is that we are talking about a sport where you drive a car on the limit for 3 days and 300 kms in real roads with obstacles, dangers and quick decisions to be made all the time.
At WRC level it take a huge amount of effort to gain one second in a km and nothing to lose everything.
You are continuously on the edge of the edge between success and failure.
Unless you reach the level of a legend like Loeb or Ogier, it only takes a little variable to change everything and turn you from a potential WDC to help Desbourough to comment the Power Stage...

: 'D

itix

20th June 2018, 11:11

Mirek

20th June 2018, 11:54

I don't agree that they received incredibly harsh punishment. If it happened to anyone of not such big name he would be immediately excluded.

In fact many many crews were excluded for much more trivial things than this before.

focus206

20th June 2018, 12:09

Now that both Ogier and Lukyanuk have been hit by FIAs idiocy, I must ask, what's the point?

They have done nothing to gain performance and they have done nothing that impedes safety, so why the incredibly harsh punishments?

Do they seriously believe that this is some form of deterrent from breaking the rules? Any well established rules system should have some leverage for things like these. The FIA seem determined to ruin the sport at their own economic gain.

How is the punishment incredibly harsh? If I understood correctly, they'll lose the points only if they'll repeat the same infringment over the course of the season, which is extremely unlikely to happen. The fine means close to nothing for Ogier, maybe a bit more for Lukyanuk. In Ogier's case, he went close to being forcibly excluded, and I'm sure he's very glad the penalty consists only in this.

jbmarcus21

21st June 2018, 17:40

New agreement has signed today in Paris between Kenya & #WRC promoter : Safari Rally becomes official candidate for 2020 season ► http://bit.ly/2McI01I

BigWorm

22nd June 2018, 14:27

cali

22nd June 2018, 17:02

what the hell did i just read?

And to Colin Clrak, Wilson has always invested in young upcoming drivers and he already said that he isnt interested in Meeke.Sorry to say and I said it already earlier but Colin Clark has lost it and quite long time ago. He has been presented as some kind of rallying specialist but for me he is just talking utter nonsense, jibberish.

Gregor-y

22nd June 2018, 17:31

Autosport runs the story too: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136910/fia-signs-agreement-for-safari-rally

Open road stages to be replaced with closed SS. But I'll take that, happy if an African rally returns to the calendar.
No problem with a closed stage as long as it's still a hundred or so kilometers long. Africa's really big.

ESTR

22nd June 2018, 19:36

No problem with a closed stage as long as it's still a hundred or so kilometers long. Africa's really big.

But Toyota have big issues for endurance. They will boycott the event

steve.mandzij

22nd June 2018, 20:56

AnttiL

22nd June 2018, 21:39

We just had an accident in ERC Cyprus Rally even though the stage was "closed". We don't want any more of that.

sonnybobiche

23rd June 2018, 07:37

I want to be really cynical and nasty and point out that it's not the real Safari without open roads and helicopters and 6000km over a week. I want to, but I can't. I'm just too happy that the Promoter is finally willing to go back to Africa. What a win for the championship. It's been far too long.

AnttiL

23rd June 2018, 08:46

I think it would be the best for everyone just to call it ”WRC Rally Kenya”

itix

23rd June 2018, 10:16

How is the punishment incredibly harsh? If I understood correctly, they'll lose the points only if they'll repeat the same infringment over the course of the season, which is extremely unlikely to happen. The fine means close to nothing for Ogier, maybe a bit more for Lukyanuk. In Ogier's case, he went close to being forcibly excluded, and I'm sure he's very glad the penalty consists only in this.Maybe I misunderstood, but I read it as they will lose points if they have any more regulations violations.

Some countries still have idiotic laws from the past which are not enforced so if out highest legal system has leverage, so should this one.

It is not a competition in who can interpret the rules in the truest way to how FIA interpret them. It is a competition in who can be the quickest on the stages on equal terms. This is where the rules should be harsh, not for ridiculous things like time cards and a GoPro on your dashboard.

Watson

23rd June 2018, 13:34

I think it would be the best for everyone just to call it ”WRC Rally Kenya”
Spot on.

focus206

23rd June 2018, 14:23

It is not a competition in who can interpret the rules in the truest way to how FIA interpret them. It is a competition in who can be the quickest on the stages on equal terms. This is where the rules should be harsh, not for ridiculous things like time cards and a GoPro on your dashboard.

You make it sound like excluding a driver for not having his time card is some obscure mean hidden deep inside the regulations that no one knows about, when in reality it's very simple. If right now in Ypres Rally, Princen or Cronin would forget their time card at a time control, they'd be excluded, period. The reason why we very rarely see something like that, it's because it's a silly and stupid mistake that codrivers rarely make.
And this would have happened to Ogier in Sardinia as well, if it wasn't for Tanak. Thanks to him, stewards decided to give this "half penalty" to Ogier and grace him.
I don't know enough about what Lukyanuk did, so I can't say anything about his case.

stefanvv

23rd June 2018, 14:32

If right now in Ypres Rally, Princen or Cronin would forget their time card at a time control, they'd be excluded, period.

There is no such rule in FIA regulations. The time card is only to have at next TC. Please stop speculating about this, it was already discussed thorough in Sardegna thread.

focus206

23rd June 2018, 14:35

There is no such rule in FIA regulations. The time card is only to have at next TC.

Alright: if Princen or Cronin would leave leave their time cards at time control, and arrive to the next one without them (which is what normally would happen if you forget your time card), they would be excluded. I wouldn't be surprised if some stewards in some rallies wouldn't even accept a time card taxi drive as Tanak did, and exclude the driver who forgot his time card anyway.

stefanvv

23rd June 2018, 14:42

Alright: if Princen or Cronin would leave leave their time cards at time control, and arrive to the next one without them (which is what normally would happen if you forget your time card), they would be excluded. I wouldn't be surprised if some stewards in some rallies wouldn't even accept a time card taxi drive as Tanak did, and exclude the driver who forgot his time card anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was silly mistake by Ingrassia reading his notes for 100 time and not paying attention to this simple thing, He admitted it himself. If some stewards refuse to give it to someone else, it's their right, no one will blame them, it's only human will. There is no such rule regulated either.

In my country we have a saying - Makes an elephant from a fly

danon

24th June 2018, 00:13

^
^
The Butter'fly' Effect

https://media.giphy.com/media/RCKkjbwSrtSrm/giphy.gif

Rally Hokkaido

24th June 2018, 01:53

The Sardegna time card case shows us the exact reason Stewards are at events. Yes, there are regulations, but they can't cover all situations, moreover sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. So, at one event the Stewards may decide on exclusion for this (as outside assistance) at another they may apply a different penalty. What the Stewards couldn't do was say, 'ah it was a simple mistake, no advantage received, we'll let the team off with a warning'. Imagine how the other WRC teams would react! So, IMHO the Stewards made the best 'political' decision. They handed down a quite severe penalty, but suspended its application unless the team misbehaved again.

AnttiL

24th June 2018, 05:45

My thoughts on the return of Safari: https://itgetsfasternow.wordpress.com/2018/06/23/the-return-of-the-safari/

N.O.T

24th June 2018, 16:58

Franky

24th June 2018, 17:51

stefanvv

24th June 2018, 17:57

VAG keep innovating at Pikes Peak.

dimviii

24th June 2018, 18:14

VAG keep innovating at Pikes Peak.

they need that, after all these happened with diesel gate.

we have to mention that electric cars have no power loss at all,even at the finish of pikes peak.
Petrol cars have lost almost the half power.

stefanvv

24th June 2018, 18:17

we have to mention that electric cars have no power loss at all,even at the finish of pikes peak.
Petrol cars have lost almost the half power.

There's little more than that.

N.O.T

24th June 2018, 18:21

still impressive victory given the VW car is about 220 kg heavier than the Peugeot.

dimviii

24th June 2018, 18:33

still impressive victory given the VW car is about 220 kg heavier than the Peugeot.

and 150-250+ bhp more from midway to top of mountain.Also flat torque from ''idle''
electric cars are different league in terms of power.This one accelerates faster from F1 car.

Hartusvuori

25th June 2018, 07:17

There is no such rule in FIA regulations. The time card is only to have at next TC. Please stop speculating about this, it was already discussed thorough in Sardegna thread.

In the previous Finnish Championship event production car title contender Henrik Pietarinen were excluded, because his co-driver noticed some mistake/unidentified mess with the time card and they reversed back, but had left the TC area already.

elmerim

25th June 2018, 08:29

In the previous Finnish Championship event production car title contender Henrik Pietarinen were excluded, because his co-driver noticed some mistake/unidentified mess with the time card and they reversed back, but had left the TC area already.

Yes, but there is a big difference. Pietarinen clearly broke the rules by going back to TC area, that is something Ogier didn't do. I'm quite sure they were aware of the mistake very soon and had all the time to come back and pick the card, but they didn't do another rookie mistake. So all in all, Seb stayed deep on the grey area doing nothing that's clearly stated in the rules to be a reason for disqualification.

From my point of view the penalty was absolutely correct, let's move on.

AnttiL

25th June 2018, 09:15

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjaan-kaavaillaan-merkittavia-muutoksia-toyota-pomolta-mielenkiintoinen-ehdotus/

The WRC Calendar is expected to be expanded to 16 events from the current 13. In order to keep the costs down, Kaj Lindström from Toyota Gazoo Racing suggests that the rallies would start on Friday morning with shakedown, with then the actual driving continuing until late night.

I still have a hard time believing cutting one day from each rally would equal the cost of traveling to three new rallies...

Franky

25th June 2018, 09:26

There's a simple principle.

Don't. Change. What. Works.

Watson

25th June 2018, 10:11

bomber21

25th June 2018, 10:29

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjaan-kaavaillaan-merkittavia-muutoksia-toyota-pomolta-mielenkiintoinen-ehdotus/

The WRC Calendar is expected to be expanded to 16 events from the current 13....

I wonder which are the extra 3 events. I have heard about Kenya, Croatia, a latin american country? Any chance for Acropolis in the near future?

er88

25th June 2018, 10:38

Chile will be in by all accounts. Kenya for sure & probably Japan

AnttiL

25th June 2018, 10:42

Chile will be in by all accounts. Kenya for sure & probably Japan

This. They have stopped talking about Croatia I guess...

ESTR

25th June 2018, 11:23

Probably New Zealand too

Francis44

25th June 2018, 11:42

Romain Dumas just SMASHED Loebs record in PIKES PEAK HILLCLIMB with the electric VW with 7.57 min... Loebs record was 8.13min

this is the beast we are talking about.... wow sub 8 min pikes peak run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lq8VQOHFPQ

Shame this technology is not exciting for spectators.

Its like beating a dead horse, we all know electric cars will have a important part in the future of everyday mobility but its share on motorsport will remain small for decades.

Just like diesel, it was the n°1 choice for every segment on several markets around the world for the last decade and its share on motorsport was insignificant, the only good effort was curiously also a VAG effort in Dakar with the Diesel Touaregs.

Franky

25th June 2018, 11:46

Just like diesel, it was the n°1 choice for every segment on several markets around the world for the last decade and its share on motorsport was insignificant, the only good effort was curiously also a VAG effort in Dakar with the Diesel Touaregs.

You are forgetting the Audi diesel Le Mans prototypes.

Francis44

25th June 2018, 12:43

You are forgetting the Audi diesel Le Mans prototypes.

Right, another VAG effort.

Tarmop

25th June 2018, 12:46

Add Peugeot 908 to WEC list.

Fast Eddie WRC

25th June 2018, 15:59

Shame this technology is not exciting for spectators.

Its like beating a dead horse, we all know electric cars will have a important part in the future of everyday mobility but its share on motorsport will remain small for decades.

Just like diesel, it was the n°1 choice for every segment on several markets around the world for the last decade and its share on motorsport was insignificant, the only good effort was curiously also a VAG effort in Dakar with the Diesel Touaregs.

You miss the point. Diesel didnt need promotion by motorsport, it was massive already (and boosted by Govts pushing it as 'clean' due to CO2 targets).

Electric needs all the help it can get...

GravelBen

26th June 2018, 00:47

You are forgetting the Audi diesel Le Mans prototypes.

They wrote the rules to give diesel an advantage at that time didn't they? Because they wanted to get more diesels in motorsport.

https://teara.govt.nz/files/39920-tim.jpg

EstWRC

26th June 2018, 07:19

A possible Safari Rally return is a complex problem for the WRC

https://rallysportmag.com/comment-a-possible-safari-rally-return-is-a-complex-problem-for-the-wrc260618/

swanny

26th June 2018, 09:09

They wrote the rules to give diesel an advantage at that time didn't they? Because they wanted to get more diesels in motorsport.

https://teara.govt.nz/files/39920-tim.jpg

Is that at Levels raceway? :D

GravelBen

26th June 2018, 11:11

Is that at Levels raceway? :D

Yip, just a photo I found online but I know the track well. Grew up watching racing there and have driven it myself a few times too.

NoFear85

27th June 2018, 13:57

Rally Croatia in 2019 and 2020 as WRC candidate.

Eli

27th June 2018, 15:11

Rally Croatia in 2019 and 2020 as WRC candidate.

Source?

Barreis

27th June 2018, 15:11

this year as a candidate with possible entry for WRC 2019 and 2020, Croatian Government today signed money guaranties
video only from this link, our prime minister
https://www.facebook.com/sebalj.hr/videos/1911853542213045/
Government gives money guaranties for two seasons, 2019 and 2020

Eli

27th June 2018, 15:17

PLuto

27th June 2018, 16:34

To be WRC candidate means almost nothing...

Barreis

27th June 2018, 18:59

Agree, I think we had already a candidate event last season (or season before) but Turkey was quicker then us.

PLuto

27th June 2018, 20:41

Agree, I think we had already a candidate event last season (or season before) but Turkey was quicker then us.

This is usually more about politics and money than about quality...

ESTR

27th June 2018, 21:26

Agree, I think we had already a candidate event last season (or season before) but Turkey was quicker then us.

You mean they put more money into Ciesla's pocket...

Barreis

27th June 2018, 22:04

You mean they put more money into Ciesla's pocket...

don't know about that but I know that our Government didn't sign any money guaranties at that time to take their slot

Rally Power

28th June 2018, 22:31

I think it would be the best for everyone just to call it ”WRC Rally Kenya”

You’re right pointing out there will be little left from the classic event, but not using the Safari name (one of motorsport huge brands) would be a total waste for the WRC.

rallyfiend

3rd July 2018, 17:05

Next year’s World Rally Championship looks set for two additional long-haul events, with Rally Japan expected to join Chile on a new-look 2019 calendar.
Japan will run a candidate event in November, but Motorsport.com’s sources have indicated the event will be included on the provisional calendar presented to the FIA in the autumn.

WRC Promoter has always made it clear next year’s series will go from 13 to 14 rounds, but Japan’s first return since 2010 will force out one of the European rallies – sources predict that will be the Tour de Corse.

The Bastia-based event is unpopular with the teams for the logistical expense in getting there and the limited number of fans attending.

The organisers of the Tour de Corse declined to comment when contacted by Motorsport.com.

With Rally Turkey returning this year and the Safari expected back in 2020, WRC Promoter will introduce four new events in just three seasons – all of them at the very edge of or outside Europe.

Getting Japan in place in 2019 is understood to be a key part of Japan’s efforts to raise its sporting profile ahead of the summer Olympics, to be held in Tokyo, 2020. The all-new Rally Japan will shift south from its former base on Hokkaido, running on the nation’s main island closer to Tokyo.

While WRC Promoter is keen to see the number of rallies on the calendar raised to 15, the teams have made clear they’re not ready for that jump yet.

One source said: “Fifteen rallies will be coming in the future, but it’s too soon for now. What we need now is for everybody to be getting something from the championship. The teams have been by paid by the promoter for Turkey; it’s part of the agreement [with Turkey] that there’s a fee for them to cover some of the logistics.

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“That’s a multi-year agreement as well, so the teams will be paid as long as we’re going to Turkey. The promoter has to make that happen, it’s keen to make a new funding model work where rallies have to pay their way – just as they do in Formula 1. It will be the same agreement with Chile, Japan and Safari when they arrive.

:The promoter has to have the ability to make a business out of the championship. Without that, what’s in it for them and what do they have to promote. But it’s a balance – a fine line that they’re treading well now.

“The guys at WRC Promoter really understand the sport now and they understand the importance of the iconic events: the Montes, the Finland, the GBs; these are the rallies which lead the television coverage and provide the historical backbone to the series.”

As part of its two-year review, WRC Promoter has put every event under the microscope, and sources suggest the results have revealed events like Corsica and Rally Germany are struggling to make the strongest financial case moving forward.

FIA president Jean Todt was joined by WRC Promoter managing director Oliver Ciesla in Paris to sign a promotion agreement with the organisers of the Safari Rally late last month.

A Nairobi-based candidate event will run in March or April next season.

Eleven rallies – of which eight are outside Europe – have an active interest in the WRC, placing more pressure than ever on the existing rallies of the championship.

Croatia is busy rebuilding a case for a WRC round, with government funding, but a planned Zagreb-based event is not believed to be among the 11, its case not helped by the fact that it falls within Europe.

GravelBen

4th July 2018, 06:56

To paraphrase... WRC Promoter: "we don't care about the sport at all, only how much money we can milk from it"

AndyRAC

4th July 2018, 08:08

Same as the last Promoter, and most probably the next Promoter....... trying to grow the sport outside Europe, but go to who offer the most £$£$£$ and continue to ignore NZ.

jbmarcus21

4th July 2018, 08:53

Toyota debuts preparation for Deutschland Rallye with JML ► http://bit.ly/2MNmPUi

ESTR

4th July 2018, 11:43

Same as the last Promoter, and most probably the next Promoter....... trying to grow the sport outside Europe, but go to who offer the most £$£$£$ and continue to ignore NZ.

Perfect example is Turkey. Nobody can make things solved in one week. But they achieve it.

Eli

4th July 2018, 14:05

On the other side of the table....

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137201/wrc-considering-f1style-group-tests

Fast Eddie WRC

4th July 2018, 15:56

Wilson: ‘Ogier won’t give up title fight' - https://t.co/WOTY6A9tRM https://t.co/NRkMYEQS90

N.O.T

4th July 2018, 16:41

lol who would ?

ESTR

4th July 2018, 16:46

Hmm, Latvala, Meeke

dimviii

5th July 2018, 16:43

930/5000
Discover what you expect from the rest of the season, what you have in mind for the immediate future and more in the long term ...

We see the faces with Dani Sordo for this interview at an event organized by Shell, one of the sponsors of the Hyundai team in the WRC and the Spaniard shows how he is: sincere, simple and knowing what role he has within the team. He knows that in Spain he has it difficult with the great mark that Carlos Sainz is still leaving and with the success that Spanish sport has in so many other disciplines, but he does not stop struggling to keep up and although he recognizes that the WRC World Cup "burns a lot" ", He trusts his options to get back on the top of the podium and confesses that, to this day, he continues to be linked to the rallies, at least one more year.
He also tells us about his future, about what interest other disciplines have for him and if he is ever competing in the Dakar.

Auto Bild: Hyundai fights for the titles of drivers and teams in the WRC, how do you face the final stretch of the season?
Dani Sordo: The truth is that very happy, because so far everything goes well, with Neuville leader, also leaders in the World Championship of Brands. So with much desire. Now rallies come a bit difficult for us, asphalt rallies we have to improve the car a bit and we will have to apply a little, because it seems that on asphalt costs us a little more, but we will try to do a good job of previous tests.

AB: On one occasion I read that you recognized that perhaps one point of improvement for was the way you take the notes. Have you made any changes with Carlos del Barrio in this regard?

Dani Sordo: The notes are a personal thing, every driver has a way, but nobody can make it perfect. This year is doing well. I can not tell you why. It is true that in the subject of notes I, sometimes, fail a bit, we have tried to improve and we keep improving every time. I have not made a specific change nor is it due to the change of co-pilot (last year his 'copi' was Marc Martí).

AB: In 2018 your contract with Hyundai ends, when will you sit down to negotiate?
Dani Sordo: At the moment we have not spoken anything. It depends on how the season is going. I am an optimist and my intention is to continue one more year at Hyundai.
AB: After your visit to the Rallycross of Barcelona, a few months ago, it was said that you were planning to run there, what's true about it?
Dani Sordo: Someday I will have to run another thing if I want to continue competing. But right now the rally is the highest level and everything else is below. It's like the F1 of mountain roads. However, I do not rule it out for the future and it is a discipline that is fun to have fun.
AB: What if Hyundai was officially?
Dani Sordo: At the moment I do not think about it in the short term. I would like to do at least one more year in rallies. But it is true that the Rallycross looks fun: there is a little less pressure than in the WRC, the races last less, it is a circuit, you do not have to move so much, I think that the people who do it, like Loeb, It has been a bit too for comfort. There are fewer trips, fewer tests ... The world rally 'burns' a lot: there are many trips all the time, tests, many days out

1457/5000
AB: It is said that Kimi Räikkönen could run next year with Toyota in the WRC, how do you think he would go?
Dani Sordo: The F1 drivers in rallies have already seen several times that they have tried and many have the problem of the notes. Kimi tried it already, it was going well and what happened was that he had accidents due to the subject of notes.
AB: (Robert) Kubica also had his mishaps ...
Dani Sordo: Yes, but in Kubika's case I think it was to admire what he was doing for what he had in his hand. It was a pilotazo and it did it better than Räikkönen.
AB: The figure of Carlos Sainz marked an era in this sport. Undoubtedly, the bar left it very high and perhaps people now do not know how to value anything beyond victory. Maybe his shadow has been too long? Have you missed some support?
Dani Sordo: The truth is that you have to have a respect for Carlos. He has been a champion, he continues to be and has won world titles and that helps a lot. So it's normal for people to have Carlos as an idol, which is what he really is. Now in Spain it is difficult, because it is clear that if you do not win races it is not worth it. But I consider myself quite lucky because I have enough fans who follow me. It is clear that I would like the rallies to come out a bit more on 'TV', but that also depends on me. If he wins, more will come out. In addition, in Spain we have another 'problem', that there are many good athletes of many things: football, basketball, motorcycles ...

AB: What would you say to these people so they would understand the difficulty of reaching the top?
Dani Sordo: It's difficult, because it also happens, for example, with Nadal. As soon as he does not win, even though he is working 100%, we start criticizing. Sometimes things happen and others do not happen. But is normal. I know that people appreciate my work and follow me. And those that do not, well, you also have to respect them.
AB: Would you like to try the Dakar in the future?
Dani Sordo: I like the Dakar, but a little less than the Rallycross, which is more action, shorter and the results are seen before. The Dakar is a beautiful adventure and they look very fast, but you have to have more experience and I, personally, like a shorter competition.
AB: To finish, if you had not been a pilot: What profession would you have chosen?
Dani Sordo: I have no idea. Surely I would have worked in my parents' businesses, which are precisely related to the distribution of spare parts and lubricants of cars, so I would be distributing that type of products in the area or managing the karting that my father did, since he has not done by me, but he rode it before I had even started running.

https://www.autobild.es/noticias/entrevista-dani-sordo-mundial-rallys-quema-mucho-270991

dimviii

18th July 2018, 19:12

Volkswagen urges World Rally Championship not to dither over EV

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137501/vw-urges-wrc-not-to-dither-over-electric-future

steve.mandzij

18th July 2018, 20:07

Hmm, Latvala, MeekeLol, Meeke's been fired and Latvala had three straight no scores.

mknight

18th July 2018, 20:30

Think what he aimed at was Latvala's (this year) and Meeke's (last year) comments on giving up season already before Argentina.

ESTR

18th July 2018, 21:25

Volkswagen urges World Rally Championship not to dither over EV

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137501/vw-urges-wrc-not-to-dither-over-electric-future

Another big mouth from VW. They don't have right to talk if they are not competing.

tommeke_B

18th July 2018, 21:57

They don't have right to talk if they are not competing.

What an idiotic statement... On the other hand, I hope WRC continues with traditional combustion engines as long as they can. Maybe sticking with petrol engines the longest could turn out to be an advantage for the series' popularity?

Watson

18th July 2018, 22:21

What an idiotic statement... On the other hand, I hope WRC continues with traditional combustion engines as long as they can. Maybe sticking with petrol engines the longest could turn out to be an advantage for the series' popularity?

Don't crucify me for bringing up F1. However, there are a lot of people in the F1 paddock who rightly say that road value seizes to be a value when it comes to drawing the regulations. In other words, the whole hybrid story is too detatched from road cars for it even to be a thing. I.e. they might as well go back to n.a. V8s... because people watch it for the show and thrill of it and nothing else.

I like rallying because there is a more of a real world aspect to it. They are (highly modified) cars that you can actually buy racing on streets that people actually use. That said, they might as well stick to internal combustion because like in F1, we tune into WRC for the show and maybe some nostalgia. Hence I don't see the point of the WRC turning electric.

If they want to implement a 'WRC E' series in tandem to WRC like FormulaE to F1 to showcase the advancements of electric cars - fair enough, but I won't watch it either.

Simmi

19th July 2018, 00:23

I agree with Smeets to be honest. I don't think full electric is even possible with the current format of rallies but some kind of future proofing of the sport needs to be taken into account. I assume there are manufacturer working groups where the regulations can be discussed before they are written. Hopefully other proposed manufacturers who are interested in joining the WRC could be part of those discussions. But like he says who are they?

I've seen a few people slating Smeets/VW for commenting. Let's be clear, he's not just got out of bed and thought I'll start slagging off the WRC today. He's been asked about it by David Evans at Goodwood whilst there with the ID electric Pikes Peak car and he's given an answer.

N.O.T

19th July 2018, 01:26

Smeets should shut the F... up.

He is a VW puppet that tries to play the new narrative of the VW after the Diesel gate... they suddenly turned into tree huggers overnight fater they got exposed.

Zeakiwi

19th July 2018, 03:26

Americans were hypocrites when they still had their own vehicles throwing out pollution.
https://youtu.be/uG8EXFvyXXw (US truck)

WRC could use bio-ethanol blend E85 if looking for a slight green wash.

Lithium battery pack fires can flare up days afterwards. Would probably require a specialist rescue crew to follow the WRC events in countries with few battery cars so proper electric vehicle rescue procedures could happen.

There are redox flow cell batteries and more advanced ultra capacitors etc coming along, so I would not rule out ev wrc cars at some stage.

Francis44

19th July 2018, 09:22

Smeets and VW Motorsport in general are just a bit angry they have spent an huge amount of money on that EV Pikes Peak car and now they dont have a motorsport series where they can use the technology for further promotion, they already have a bunch of subsidiaries on FE and beyond that there isn't really another option, they know F1 won't budge so they keep trying to pull strings on other series.

That said, I would very much like to have some sort of Hybrid powertrain for the next set of regulations, I think cars could have improved performance without loosing too much appeal for spectators, after all the engines could be a copy paste of the current. And then I would like to hear what kind of excuse VW would have not to re-enter the series.

ESTR

19th July 2018, 16:04

And then I would like to hear what kind of excuse VW would have not to re-enter the series.

Too many competitors especially Hyundai..

steve.mandzij

19th July 2018, 16:58

Think what he aimed at was Latvala's (this year) and Meeke's (last year) comments on giving up season already before Argentina.Could be. Either way the article is crap, and comparing Ogier who's second in the standings to Latvala and Meeke who were under the top 5 doesn't make too much sense to me.

ESTR

21st July 2018, 08:19

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137518/ogier-neuville-now-has-weight-on-his-shoulders

What a douche.. That makes him nothing but a crying baby. Neuville have consistent season so far and now he says that he have so much luck. What about him for the past 5 years? Especially last year with his speed he was nowhere and still win the title.

Simmi

21st July 2018, 12:51

Fast Eddie WRC

21st July 2018, 13:34

Re Smeets comments and the future cars..

The current WRC cars arent sustainable financially in the long-term anyway. To get an idea, I just heard on a rally podcast that Mads Ostberg spent £0.5 million doing Rally Finland last year !!!

And we know Citroen are already struggling for budget.

However hybrid/ electric cars could be even more expensive. Plus less spectacular and less reliable.

The future of WRC is a big worry.

the sniper

21st July 2018, 15:17

The current WRC cars arent sustainable financially in the long-term anyway. To get an idea, I just heard on a rally podcast that Mads Ostberg spent £0.5 million doing Rally Finland last year !!!

It'd be interesting to know the workings behind that number.

sindroms

21st July 2018, 15:29

The future of WRC is a big worry.

I start to used to idea that my rally fan career next step will be historic cars - combustion engine cars...

Fast Eddie WRC

21st July 2018, 20:53

stefanvv

21st July 2018, 20:58

We currently have super-expensive, mega-fast, great-sounding, radical-looking WRC cars and live streaming of every stage in 2018.

But I fear the WRC future has none of these things.

The moral to this situation must be 'Enjoy it while you can'...

Actually except the sound part, others are not in danger. For sure the sound is no better than Gr.B car, well at least some of them, so not much to lose anyway.

Fast Eddie WRC

21st July 2018, 21:10

Actually except the sound part, others are not in danger. For sure the sound is no better than Gr.B car, well at least some of them, so not much to lose anyway.

I think we could be heading for the kind of change like when Group B got banned and the cars went to the slower, quieter, weedier-looking, Group A cars.

It took a long time (maybe never) to get back the popularity.

If so why will a manufacturer want to be part of such a series, especially if its also more expensive ?

stefanvv

21st July 2018, 21:18

why will a manufacturer want to be part of such a series, especially if its also more expensive ?

Manufacturers are interested in technologies, popularity and money. I don't think wrc will lose it's popularity much if technology changes. Besides there are quite a few manufacturers interested in these technologies. One lose, a few more win, and there is the compensation in the popularity. If the new rules attract let's say 7 manufacturers, I don't see why this is a bad thing, just like Gr. B adrenalin for manufacturers.

ESTR

21st July 2018, 21:24

The real word on this have ONLY the teams who are in game. Why VW and Smeets are big mouthed when they don't have the balls to enter the field again blaming the money when clearly they spend on shit like that siren on devil's mountain. They are behaving like they rule the FIA and WRC itself.. Chickens

stefanvv

21st July 2018, 21:48

The real word on this have ONLY the teams who are in game. Why VW and Smeets are big mouthed when they don't have the balls to enter the field again blaming the money when clearly they spend on shit like that siren on devil's mountain.

Company politics, simple. Times change. The only losers are the ones who stick with their "traditions".

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd July 2018, 11:01

Manufacturers are interested in technologies, popularity and money. I don't think wrc will lose it's popularity much if technology changes. Besides there are quite a few manufacturers interested in these technologies. One lose, a few more win, and there is the compensation in the popularity. If the new rules attract let's say 7 manufacturers, I don't see why this is a bad thing, just like Gr. B adrenalin for manufacturers.

Problem is that the current cars are only just attracting back the casual viewer to WRC, due to being more extreme. If they go to hybrid/electric I can see them losing them again. They dont care about us enthusiasts who will always watch, they want the mass market. Manufacturer's wont see any point in throwing money (and it could be more expensive than now) into a sport the general public doesnt watch.

And look at all the complaints about F1 since they lost the N/A cars and their noise...

stefanvv

22nd July 2018, 12:42

Problem is that the current cars are only just attracting back the casual viewer to WRC, due to being more extreme. If they go to hybrid/electric I can see them losing them again. They dont care about us enthusiasts who will always watch, they want the mass market. Manufacturer's wont see any point in throwing money (and it could be more expensive than now) into a sport the general public doesnt watch.

You're mixing the things up - nobody watches WRC because of the noise (from casual spectators). They watch it because there is good competition, cars are fast, more extreme as You say, there are at least 3 manufacturers and 1 semi manufacturer, last but not least - the promotion is getting better and better every year.

Look back to Loeb era - nobody cared 1 French guy in a French team beats everybody around, with just 1 competitor manufacturer to oppose, even that didn't last long and Ford pulled the plug. In my country there was no interest whatsoever from local TV stations to broadcast WRC. Even I watched it only occasionally on Eurosport back then, just to see Loeb wins again. How will You attract new viewers with this? You can't. Now everything moves in the right direction, noise or not much noise I don't think cars will become slower and less spectacular. Add to this numerous manufacturers interest, and the formula is cooked.

And look at all the complaints about F1 since they lost the N/A cars and their noise...

I'm not competent in f1 area, sorry.

GravelBen

23rd July 2018, 01:45

You're mixing the things up - nobody watches WRC because of the noise (from casual spectators). They watch it because there is good competition, cars are fast, more extreme as You say, there are at least 3 manufacturers and 1 semi manufacturer, last but not least - the promotion is getting better and better every year.

The things that get the most reaction from rally spectators are spectacular driver commitment (driving on/over the limit) and the sound of the cars. Not talking about WRC specifically but rallying in general.

Exciting noise is important for the emotional involvement of spectators - just like a movie needs the right music and good sound effects to make an audience feel involved, so does motorsport. This is probably even more important for casual spectators than rally-geeks like us.

Close competition is important too of course and keeps people interested and following on tv/online over the whole season as well as going to their local rallies, but many spectators while they're watching in person don't care too much if a driver is a tenth or ten seconds faster than another as long as its exciting to watch and they feel close to the action.

I guess promotion is getting better with stuff like WRC+ for existing fans, but I don't know if they have done anything much for wider awareness and interest beyond the people who are already into rally?

AndyRAC

23rd July 2018, 20:42

I guess promotion is getting better with stuff like WRC+ for existing fans, but I don't know if they have done anything much for wider awareness and interest beyond the people who are already into rally?

My gut feeling is that it hasn't.....(though I am talking from a UK perspective which may not be reliable). However, I still feel there needs to be more free Live action on RedBullTV; rather than just 1 stage on a Saturday.

Franky

24th July 2018, 06:21

My gut feeling is that it hasn't.....(though I am talking from a UK perspective which may not be reliable). However, I still feel there needs to be more free Live action on RedBullTV; rather than just 1 stage on a Saturday.

It needs to be on Free to view TV channel that people may stumble upon. Ending up on RedBullTV requires knowledge already.

mknight

24th July 2018, 08:58

So far very quiet on driver moves and signings for 2019. Finland-Germany is where contracts usually get signed, so we should start hearing rumors soon.

the sniper

24th July 2018, 09:02

It needs to be on Free to view TV channel that people may stumble upon. Ending up on RedBullTV requires knowledge already.

Absolutely agree!

Here in the UK, I think the WRC could really do with aiming for a slot on BBC2 in the mid/late afternoon on the Saturday following each rally. Being on the BBC legitimises the sport as important and also has side benefits of getting you featured more prominently on the BBC website under sports news and VOD/Iplayer. The press also pay more attention to stuff on the BBC. You only have to look at the effect BBC coverage has had on UK interest in NFL/Superbowl to see how effective this would be. The time delay doesn't really matter to the mainstream/casual audience you'd attract in that spot, and you'd still have daily highlights on the likes on BT Sport and live on WRC+. As part of the deal you could have daily highlights and live stages on BBC2 for Rally GB only, which would be monumental exposure. This is similar to the level of coverage the BBC have offered Rally GB and the WRC in the past. If offered a cheap/free package, I can't see that the BBC would turn it down, unless they're completely dominated now by 'social responsibility' precluding any new Motorsport coverage (they still just about produce Top Gear though, so there's some hope).

AnttiL

24th July 2018, 09:58

So far very quiet on driver moves and signings for 2019. Finland-Germany is where contracts usually get signed, so we should start hearing rumors soon.

Yeah, this was supposed to be the silliest season with many contracts ending but so far nothing...last year it was crazy with rumors this time of year

Barreis

24th July 2018, 10:00

Absolutely agree!

Here in the UK, I think the WRC could really do with aiming for a slot on BBC2 in the mid/late afternoon on the Saturday following each rally. Being on the BBC legitimises the sport as important and also has side benefits of getting you featured more prominently on the BBC website under sports news and VOD/Iplayer. The press also pay more attention to stuff on the BBC. You only have to look at the effect BBC coverage has had on UK interest in NFL/Superbowl to see how effective this would be. The time delay doesn't really matter to the mainstream/casual audience you'd attract in that spot, and you'd still have daily highlights on the likes on BT Sport and live on WRC+. As part of the deal you could have daily highlights and live stages on BBC2 for Rally GB only, which would be monumental exposure. This is similar to the level of coverage the BBC have offered Rally GB and the WRC in the past. If offered a cheap/free package, I can't see that the BBC would turn it down, unless they're completely dominated now by 'social responsibility' precluding any new Motorsport coverage (they still just about produce Top Gear though, so there's some hope).

this sport is still in deep shit. only hard core fans as us know who's winning or who are the drivers. kids from my street only know meeke because of spectacular crashes

Fast Eddie WRC

24th July 2018, 11:34

rallyfiend

24th July 2018, 12:04

The BBC really struggle to afford decent sport these days. They only spend on total mainstream (football) or the very cheapest (like equestrian).

I wonder what the WRC charges ? Surely it would be better to reduce the price if it meant BBC showing it rather than Ch.5 ...

The BBC was a massive ally of rallying years ago and must've created thousands of fans for the sport.

It's not a question of cost of the rights, for sure. Most sports would take no money to be on the BBC.

The BBC, like most state broadcasters, do not like to show sport that they do not produce themselves. This is about creating bespoke, focused content for their audience, and also keep their internal staff occupied.

That in itself creates huge costs.

The BBC shifted F1 to their subsidiary Channel 4 in order to reduce the costs of production and other ancilliary costs (it was outsourced on C4), while still paying the rights fee to F1!!

T16

24th July 2018, 12:23

The BBC shifted F1 to their subsidiary Channel 4 in order to reduce the costs of production and other ancilliary costs (it was outsourced on C4), while still paying the rights fee to F1!![/QUOTE]

Since when was C4 a subsidiary of the BBC?

Fast Eddie WRC

24th July 2018, 12:33

It's not a question of cost of the rights, for sure. Most sports would take no money to be on the BBC.

The BBC, like most state broadcasters, do not like to show sport that they do not produce themselves. This is about creating bespoke, focused content for their audience, and also keep their internal staff occupied.

That in itself creates huge costs.

The BBC shifted F1 to their subsidiary Channel 4 in order to reduce the costs of production and other ancilliary costs (it was outsourced on C4), while still paying the rights fee to F1!!

The Premier League football isnt 'made' by the BBC and they buy a package of highlights for Match of the Day. So why not a package of WRC and use their own commentators ?

Francis44

24th July 2018, 12:48

You're mixing the things up - nobody watches WRC because of the noise (from casual spectators). They watch it because there is good competition, cars are fast, more extreme as You say, there are at least 3 manufacturers and 1 semi manufacturer, last but not least - the promotion is getting better and better every year.

Look back to Loeb era - nobody cared 1 French guy in a French team beats everybody around, with just 1 competitor manufacturer to oppose, even that didn't last long and Ford pulled the plug. In my country there was no interest whatsoever from local TV stations to broadcast WRC. Even I watched it only occasionally on Eurosport back then, just to see Loeb wins again. How will You attract new viewers with this? You can't. Now everything moves in the right direction, noise or not much noise I don't think cars will become slower and less spectacular. Add to this numerous manufacturers interest, and the formula is cooked.

I'm not competent in f1 area, sorry.

Your comment does not make much sense, sorry. I would say sound is a factor on the cars being extreme. The nº1 thing that stucks with friends I take to watch rallys is sound, after that speed, they are always impressed and excited by how loud some of the cars are. Drag races have fast cars and how many are interested by them?! The only real problem with the WRC nowadays is lack of competition and lack of diversity of nationalities, it is very hard to conquer all markets when you have only a french and a Belgium in the fight. Look what Hamilton has done to the popularity of F1 in the UK.

No matter how hard it is to manufacteurs and promoters, they will always have to catter to the hardcore fans also, after all it is them spending 1000 plus € to attend several events around the World

Francis44

24th July 2018, 12:55

Simmi

24th July 2018, 13:17

More cash for WRC promoter from 'global chemical giant' - https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/july-2018/asahi-kasei/page/5587--12-12-.html

Maybe strengthens the potential for a Japanese round?

rallyfiend

24th July 2018, 13:40

The Premier League football isnt 'made' by the BBC and they buy a package of highlights for Match of the Day. So why not a package of WRC and use their own commentators ?

The Premier League is an English product.

International sports are not...

A national broadcaster would need to focus more fully on just their national drivers - something that the makers of an international feed (such as WRC) have less to do.

stefanvv

24th July 2018, 14:04

Your comment does not make much sense, sorry.

It did when I wrote it, but now not so sure, had to read it again what did I wrote.

I would say sound is a factor on the cars being extreme. The nº1 thing that stucks with friends I take to watch rallys is sound, after that speed, they are always impressed and excited by how loud some of the cars are.

I'm sure You (and friend) do, and I completely understand it. That was not what my post was about. The promoter doesn't care for You and friends going to some event to enjoy the sound, they care for the number of online/TV viewers, hence the manufacturer interest, hence the investment in the sport, and so on, and so on.

The only real problem with the WRC nowadays is lack of competition and lack of diversity of nationalities, it is very hard to conquer all markets when you have only a french and a Belgium in the fight. Look what Hamilton has done to the popularity of F1 in the UK.

I'm not sure where You're going from here, it looks like the problem is the lack of UK driver on top of the competition. Sorry, I'm far-far away from UK, can't tell. But for the "competitiveness" argument I have to disagree completely.

No matter how hard it is to manufacteurs and promoters, they will always have to catter to the hardcore fans also, after all it is them spending 1000 plus € to attend several events around the World

In my point of view hardcore fan will always be such and go watch rallies, just because of the sport, not for some details. And I'm not sure how the sport promotion wins from being 500 people visiting each WRC event, or 500 000 people. For sure the host countries win from that, but there are already enough candidate events to be in WRC calendar.

My 2 cents, not pretending for 100% accuracy.

Rally Power

24th July 2018, 14:15

Anyway I think, like the WEC, WRC should be looking at alternative fuels, but not just electricity. WEC promoters know what excites the crowds, that is why we will soon maybe see some kind of hydrogen application on that championship.

The WEC intends to use Hydrogen from 2024, but no one can be sure it’ll really happen. Actually, the 2020/24 rules are a step back on hybrid tech use because it became obvious the current WEC hybrid systems are too complex and expensive. From 4 manus in 2015 only Toyota is still in the series (mainly because they needed to win LM).

WEC example was certainly one of the reasons why current WRC manus warn the FIA about the risks of a sudden hi-tech hybrid or electric rally use. Hopefully we’ll end with some mild hybrid system that won’t hurt the nature of the sport and avoid manus to leave. Fingers crossed!

Francis44

24th July 2018, 14:32

It did when I wrote it, but now not so sure, had to read it again what did I wrote.

I'm sure You (and friend) do, and I completely understand it. That was not what my post was about. The promoter doesn't care for You and friends going to some event to enjoy the sound, they care for the number of online/TV viewers, hence the manufacturer interest, hence the investment in the sport, and so on, and so on.

I'm not sure where You're going from here, it looks like the problem is the lack of UK driver on top of the competition. Sorry, I'm far-far away from UK, can't tell. But for the "competitiveness" argument I have to disagree completely.

In my point of view hardcore fan will always be such and go watch rallies, just because of the sport, not for some details. And I'm not sure how the sport promotion wins from being 500 people visiting each WRC event, or 500 000 people. For sure the host countries win from that, but there are already enough candidate events to be in WRC calendar.

My 2 cents, not pretending for 100% accuracy.

No one is 100% accurate. This is why I like forums, we can exchange opinions and views freely.

My point about nationalities is not UK focused, what I was trying to say is that it is difficult to engage "casuals" around the World when they have no one to support, I hate to bring up football, but look how engaged "casuals" are when their country is qualified for the World Cup, after their country is out of the competition, they completely loose interest in it. Sorry if I was not so clear.

In the end the problem with WRC, and with any motorsport for that matter, is that is utterly difficult to sell it via TV, internet. Much of the appeal is lost on the screens.

Anyway I struggle to see how electric cars would help promoters bring more people to the sport, that would only help manus squeeze more money out of the table of CEO's for their programmes.

stefanvv

24th July 2018, 15:21

My point about nationalities is not UK focused, what I was trying to say is that it is difficult to engage "casuals" around the World when they have no one to support, I hate to bring up football, but look how engaged "casuals" are when their country is qualified for the World Cup, after their country is out of the competition, they completely loose interest in it. Sorry if I was not so clear.

In the end the problem with WRC, and with any motorsport for that matter, is that is utterly difficult to sell it via TV, internet. Much of the appeal is lost on the screens.

Anyway I struggle to see how electric cars would help promoters bring more people to the sport, that would only help manus squeeze more money out of the table of CEO's for their programmes.

Since You bring the "national" side interest one of my points was, if there are more manufacturers interested to enter (let's say because technology rules change), that would be only good for the sport. There are people (like me), who would watch some race not only his fella countryman competes, but if his favorite car maker also competes, is interested in technologies part, etc. Probably those people are not many, but anyway my point was different - more manufacturers - more competition - more interest from different countries - more interest in the sport in general, despite we lose one of the most appealing aspects - the sound of the car. But how many are able to evaluate this if they are sitting at home in front of PC/TV and are not at the stages? - Almost no one, the promotion is not about that.

And if more manufacturers are interested in the sport, the more variety of drivers around the world we'll watch, I can assure of that.

Francis44

24th July 2018, 16:20

Since You bring the "national" side interest one of my points was, if there are more manufacturers interested to enter (let's say because technology rules change), that would be only good for the sport. There are people (like me), who would watch some race not only his fella countryman competes, but if his favorite car maker also competes, is interested in technologies part, etc. Probably those people are not many, but anyway my point was different - more manufacturers - more competition - more interest from different countries - more interest in the sport in general, despite we lose one of the most appealing aspects - the sound of the car. But how many are able to evaluate this if they are sitting at home in front of PC/TV and are not at the stages? - Almost no one, the promotion is not about that.

And if more manufacturers are interested in the sport, the more variety of drivers around the world we'll watch, I can assure of that.

Then why not try Hybrid systems?! It would appeal both Worlds, and for the car market it is expected that Hybrids will be nº1 in all segments for a few years.

Franky

24th July 2018, 16:38

[...] but anyway my point was different - more manufacturers - more competition - more interest from different countries - more interest in the sport in general, despite we lose one of the most appealing aspects - the sound of the car. But how many are able to evaluate this if they are sitting at home in front of PC/TV and are not at the stages? - Almost no one, the promotion is not about that.

Do you watch videos without sound?

Fast Eddie WRC

24th July 2018, 20:47

Then why not try Hybrid systems?! It would appeal both Worlds, and for the car market it is expected that Hybrids will be nº1 in all segments for a few years.

I'm sure hybrid is the likely answer. Electric for power and promotion of the manufacturer tech... and a small petrol for noise, for the fans.

Fast Eddie WRC

24th July 2018, 20:51

Do you watch videos without sound?

While I totally sympathise about the possible loss of noise in future cars, Stefanvv is right re the 'noise' for the PC/TV viewer.

Even with the current cars you can hardly hear the engine, plus there is always a commentator talking over them.... :(

stefanvv

24th July 2018, 21:18

Do you watch videos without sound?

Type of general rhetoric question. My favorite tune is 2.3L 5-cyl straight with turbo. I like classical music, everything else is from mediocre to complete trash.

Franky

24th July 2018, 21:44

Sound matters even when it's video. Why else was there so much talk about lack of F1 engine noise, when they changed the formula. Also now they apparently have microphones somewhere near the exhausts to get better sound for the broadcast.

Yes, sound doesn't play as big role as when being on the stage in person, but it is still significant.

stefanvv

24th July 2018, 21:51

I have watched Le Mans last 10 or so rounds, I didn't notice hybrid technology made any negative sound impression, actually the onboards were sounding quite nice and this with the impression of the speed was great. I'm little disappointed with formula-E sound tho. But I don't like very much this type of "formula" races so that's probably not a reliable argument. "Bar talk"...

Tauri_J

25th July 2018, 11:41

Simmi

25th July 2018, 14:28

I'm most concerned about the safety implications of almost silent WRC cars. I don't see how rallies could remain in their current format, with spectators walking along stages etc. Seems they would become far more locked down in the future.

AnttiL

25th July 2018, 14:29

Simmi

25th July 2018, 17:36

Walking on the road is forbidden in WRC rallies anyway

Well yes there's the rule. And then there's the reality.

janvanvurpa

25th July 2018, 22:19

Walking on the road is forbidden in WRC rallies anyway

And they won't do it twice..:eek:

itix

26th July 2018, 11:45

The things that get the most reaction from rally spectators are spectacular driver commitment (driving on/over the limit) and the sound of the cars. Not talking about WRC specifically but rallying in general.

Exciting noise is important for the emotional involvement of spectators - just like a movie needs the right music and good sound effects to make an audience feel involved, so does motorsport...

Oh c'mon. Nothing will ever sound as good as the S1 Quattro ever again so why bother. I am fairly sure that nobody except for enthusiasts watch the sport for the noise and today's turbo rally cars will never sound good unless you build regulations specifically for this end. The restrictor prevents high revs which is widely associated with good noise. The S2000s were the last to actually sound good.

Hybrid technology put to the test in what is arguably the second toughest Motorsport series on the planet after rally raid (and the toughest popular one) is something that could for attract manufacturers for sure. It just requires the regulations to be written in a way that it won't be expensive. The R5 regs modified with the current aero regs should do pretty much that.

Casual fans are interested in "cool" looking cars (and let's be honest the current crop aren't great in that respect even though I personally love the hatchback type), lots of manufacturers so they can follow their manufacturer or their driver, and that's pretty much it.

Post group B, I think most will agree that rallying was the best mid 90s to early 2000s and especially 2001 with 7 manufacturers involved, good looking cars like the Subaru, the 206 etc etc. Sound is secondary.

pokey2014

26th July 2018, 12:45

Didn't Citroen ran a hybrid C4 wrc years back ?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Eli

26th July 2018, 13:42

Didn't Citroen ran a hybrid C4 wrc years back ?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Norway 2009, as a demonstration.

Fast Eddie WRC

26th July 2018, 14:06

Oh c'mon. Nothing will ever sound as good as the S1 Quattro ever again so why bother. I am fairly sure that nobody except for enthusiasts watch the sport for the noise and today's turbo rally cars will never sound good unless you build regulations specifically for this end. The restrictor prevents high revs which is widely associated with good noise. The S2000s were the last to actually sound good.

Hybrid technology put to the test in what is arguably the second toughest Motorsport series on the planet after rally raid (and the toughest popular one) is something that could for attract manufacturers for sure. It just requires the regulations to be written in a way that it won't be expensive. The R5 regs modified with the current aero regs should do pretty much that.

Casual fans are interested in "cool" looking cars (and let's be honest the current crop aren't great in that respect even though I personally love the hatchback type), lots of manufacturers so they can follow their manufacturer or their driver, and that's pretty much it.

Post group B, I think most will agree that rallying was the best mid 90s to early 2000s and especially 2001 with 7 manufacturers involved, good looking cars like the Subaru, the 206 etc etc. Sound is secondary.

I cant agree with this at all.

Casual fans might think the WRC's look cool but that will be more when they see them in photos or in service.

But when they are in action, what impresses is the speed and sliding, and definitely the NOISE.

When they can hear a WRC car coming from a couple of miles away, then getting louder and louder, it really builds the excitement and anticipation.

(Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSVmugRamKQ&feature=youtu.be ... then watch again with the sound off !)

Simmi

26th July 2018, 16:12

The noise was definitely part of what got me hooked, and that sense of pure excitement when you heard the first car approaching was something I wish I could bottle. Attending more and more events means that's disappeared a bit now. It also helped that Celicas and Impreza 555s sounded like a small war was approaching back in the mid nineties.

spiderem

26th July 2018, 20:46

Looking at the current spec wrc cars flying nose up really makes it looking like Groupe B era... or am i the only one seeing that?
especially the quattro compared to the fiesta, with the front wheel arch kinda looking alike.

jbmarcus21

29th July 2018, 13:09

Full 2018 #WRC standings after #Rallyfinland (include Driver, Manufacturers, Stage Winner, Power Stage, Shakedown...) ► http://bit.ly/XL8nl9

jbmarcus21

29th July 2018, 17:35

Marcus Grönholm targets next 2019 #RallySweden ► http://bit.ly/2vgLPwb

Rallyper

29th July 2018, 19:09

Marcus Grönholm targets next 2019 #RallySweden ► http://bit.ly/2vgLPwb

Don´t forget where you saw it first time... ;)

A FONDO

29th July 2018, 20:22

Sound is the 2nd most important factor in rallying...1st would be speed. Would even anyone show up to watch noiseless cars blasting through the forest?

How would you even come to a thought that noise is not important?

I would, because except for the speed perception there's also the smell of brakes, pebbles being thrown around; sliding tyres will be easier to hear/notice too.
And of course laying and drinking under the shadows, people do it with bycicles tours too. :D

Fast Eddie WRC

29th July 2018, 22:49

Francis44

30th July 2018, 13:51

So it is almost guaranteed that by 2022 the cars will be Hybrids. Thankfully not fully electric.

In Rally Finland most team bosses expressed their feelings:

https://www.autosport.pt/motor24/wrc-hibrido-so-para-2022-mas-decisoes-estao-ainda-em-aberto/ (article in portuguese)

It is interesting to see that for most in charge full electric is not a viable option neither will be in the medium term, however it is also interesting to see some, specially Nandan, considering other types of alternatives other than electric.

jbmarcus21

30th July 2018, 15:01

Eric Camilli enters with M-Sport Ford Fiesta R5 for Deutschland Rallye (include interview) ► http://bit.ly/2LM2kL8

Barreis

30th July 2018, 15:59

Ogier about Finland an the car...
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-m-sport-needs-more-speed-to-defend-title-1066076/

Fast Eddie WRC

1st August 2018, 11:54

Francis44

1st August 2018, 12:36

BTCC also to go hybrid with an additional unit alongside the current engines...
https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/137778/btcc-set-to-adopt-hybrid-technology

This is what I predicted for WRC...

Good news and smart approach, everyone remains happy.

Rally Power

1st August 2018, 14:08

BTCC also to go hybrid with an additional unit alongside the current engines...
https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/137778/btcc-set-to-adopt-hybrid-technology

It sounds like a mild hybrid system using a 48v electric supercharger, like Valeo’s e4Boost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtJr2LHgLhI

T16

1st August 2018, 14:11

Citroen and Ogier begin 2019 talks...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137783/citroen-begins-ogier-2019-talks

dimviii

1st August 2018, 16:46

Katsuta drove after Finland the yaris wrc
https://rallysportmag.com/katsuta-tweets-test-of-world-rally-car/

AnttiL

1st August 2018, 17:22

Katsuta drove after Finland the yaris wrc
https://rallysportmag.com/katsuta-tweets-test-of-world-rally-car/

Seems like they only let him drive in a gravel pit, far from trees and ditches

Fast Eddie WRC

1st August 2018, 21:23

Citroen and Ogier begin 2019 talks...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137783/citroen-begins-ogier-2019-talks

Good timing by Citroen after disappointing Rally Finland for Ogier and better speed shown by the C3 WRC ...

Allez Andruet

1st August 2018, 21:45

Good timing by Citroen after disappointing Rally Finland for Ogier and better speed shown by the C3 WRC ...

Kankkunen fell into the same trap after 1000 Lakes '89, so why not Ogier...

wrc2017

2nd August 2018, 07:42

Kankkunen fell into the same trap after 1000 Lakes '89, so why not Ogier...

Ogier risks chasing things, while his best days are maybe past him.

AnttiL

2nd August 2018, 08:40

Kankkunen fell into the same trap after 1000 Lakes '89, so why not Ogier...

Not really the same...Kankkunen went to the team which was a 3 time champion and left a team whose car failed to finish rallies, but would get the issues solved for the following year.

jbmarcus21

2nd August 2018, 11:52

full report from Test Days Neuville for next Deutschland Rallye include video and photos ► http://bit.ly/2McN8DB

T16

2nd August 2018, 13:21

Ogier risks chasing things, while his best days are maybe past him.

I think he’s getting better at winning championships (maybe not necessarily faster outright).

Norm75

2nd August 2018, 16:26

Good timing by Citroen after disappointing Rally Finland for Ogier and better speed shown by the C3 WRC ...

Bit of a double edged sword for Mads. Does he carry on trying for great results like Finland and risk losing his ride to Ogier, or relax a little to hide the potential of the C3 but risk losing out to another driver anyway?

Allez Andruet

2nd August 2018, 17:20

Not really the same...Kankkunen went to the team which was a 3 time champion and left a team whose car failed to finish rallies, but would get the issues solved for the following year.

Not literally the same ofcourse. The point was about making a hefty decision based on x amount of rallies or a rally instead of seeing the so-called big picture.

And I must stress that I don't believe for one second that Ogier would do such thing.

AnttiL

2nd August 2018, 17:41

Bit of a double edged sword for Mads. Does he carry on trying for great results like Finland and risk losing his ride to Ogier, or relax a little to hide the potential of the C3 but risk losing out to another driver anyway?

Why so you think he would lose his ride to Ogier? Ogier-Breen-Østberg would be a nice team

Norm75

2nd August 2018, 18:09

Why so you think he would lose his ride to Ogier? Ogier-Breen-Østberg would be a nice team

Yes, it would be great from a consistency point of view, three drivers that rarely crash. Question mark over budget though, would Ogier bring redbull money, would Abu Dhabi then pull support etc. They really should be running a three car team, but on the strength of the last two seasons I have my doubts.

Andre Oliveira

2nd August 2018, 18:49

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjnPz0nWsAcgnd_?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjnPz0oX0AAc87i?format=jpg&name=medium

spiderem

2nd August 2018, 19:00

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2018/latvala-confidence/page/5634--12-12-.html

Glad to read that Jari Matti got his confidence back. :)
Honestly i wonder how his wife is copping living with such an emotional roller-coaster beside her!

spiderem

2nd August 2018, 19:04

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjnPz0nWsAcgnd_?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjnPz0oX0AAc87i?format=jpg&name=medium

No offense to Jourdan, but is it not a bit crazy to give this beast to a "not so experienced driver"? Rally is on a slow recovery with regards to general public acceptance, 1 major off with injuries or fatalities and the whole thing will be in jeopardy again... I guess we got away with Paddon's off in Monte 17 by the fact that it was the very first stage of the first rally of the new wrc era... Hope my fears won't materialize.
PS i like the car livery though.

Mirek

2nd August 2018, 19:10

I have no problem with him driving. I'm only afraid of repeating last year's Catalunya when the starting order with Serderidis ahead of Kopecký virtually destroyed Kopecký's victory.

Allez Andruet

2nd August 2018, 19:20

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2018/latvala-confidence/page/5634--12-12-.html

When your self-confidence goes down you can’t come and win the next rally because first you have to build it up again and only then can you win.

I have to quote Terry Harryman: oh dear god

wrc2017

2nd August 2018, 19:58

I have to quote Terry Harryman: oh dear god

its getting near contract time, and JML is taking about finding his confidence.

rallyfiend

2nd August 2018, 20:07

No offense to Jourdan, but is it not a bit crazy to give this beast to a "not so experienced driver"? Rally is on a slow recovery with regards to general public acceptance, 1 major off with injuries or fatalities and the whole thing will be in jeopardy again... I guess we got away with Paddon's off in Monte 17 by the fact that it was the very first stage of the first rally of the new wrc era... Hope my fears won't materialize.
PS i like the car livery though.

I don't see why he's a risk.

Yeah, he has a quick car, but he's always had quick cars. He doesn't drive on the edge so as to cause much of an increased safety risk.

AnttiL

2nd August 2018, 21:03

I have no problem with him driving. I'm only afraid of repeating last year's Catalunya when the starting order with Serderidis ahead of Kopecký virtually destroyed Kopecký's victory.

Dust won’t be as much of an issue ;)

dupanton

2nd August 2018, 21:49

I don't see why he's a risk.

Yeah, he has a quick car, but he's always had quick cars. He doesn't drive on the edge so as to cause much of an increased safety risk.

He is in fact less of a risk than the factory drivers that are on the edge everywhere. He will take corners a lot slower than the top drivers, so much less risk imo

steve.mandzij

2nd August 2018, 22:57

No offense to Jourdan, but is it not a bit crazy to give this beast to a "not so experienced driver"? Rally is on a slow recovery with regards to general public acceptance, 1 major off with injuries or fatalities and the whole thing will be in jeopardy again... I guess we got away with Paddon's off in Monte 17 by the fact that it was the very first stage of the first rally of the new wrc era... Hope my fears won't materialize.
PS i like the car livery though.He's only gonna be as much a risk as Sheikh Khalid or Armin Kremer; for starters, Kris Meeke would be a much greater risk.

Andre Oliveira

3rd August 2018, 08:16

Compare Kremer with Al-Qassimi and Serderidis is not good idea. Kremer is a good driver.

Mirek

3rd August 2018, 08:59

Dust won’t be as much of an issue ;)

No, but it's near impossible to overtake someone in the wineyeards.

denkimi

3rd August 2018, 17:03

Seriously the argument about who is better than who is irrelevant. The FIA must think he is competent enough to drive the car. It doesn't matter what class the car is if there is an accident. The worst fatal crash involving spectators in Britain in recent times was caused by an R3 Citroen and not a WRC car. You could argue (if you must) that a WRC car driven by Works driver would more than likely be going faster than one driven by an amateur so any possible accident could be on a grander scale.

And when ogier passes by there are a lot more spectators on the road standing a lot closer than when sederditis passes by.

dimviii

5th August 2018, 21:54

Rallirinki / Teemu
Tommi Mäkinen Racing had a turnover of 67 m€ in 2017 (+48% /2016) and made a profit of 8,6 m€ (+115%). #WRC is good business for the team. Currently TGR's WRC base is moving to Tallinn, Estonia. After Germany cars won't return to Finland for rebuild.

https://m.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/toyota-menestyy-erikoiskokeilla-ja-talousasioissa---tommi-makisen-tiimilla-jalleen-huima-voittoprosentti/fezdDH2J