Pontus Tidemand [SWE]

[Andre Oliveira]

What you think about Pontus future? With so many young guns appearing like Suninen, Lappi, Kalle, Huttunen,.... He will reach WRC top class?

[Essaj]

I like how you mention everyone else with their surnames expect Kalle =D
Pontus is actually in a really bad spot currently, he desperately needs to get away from R5's to at least get some WRC seat time for next year or he is going to be surpassed and forgotten in a year or two.
But when your managers son is doing fine in wrc 2 and most of the focus is probably on him, Pontus must feel the pressure.
I personally would like to see Pontus having a go on wrc but there is just way too many drivers for just so little amount of cars.

[Mirek]

IMHO he hasn't shown any progress in last two years. I am afraid he will follow P-G Andersson's path.

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, Veiby is climbing. Another problem is Mikkelsen, that is the priority for 2018 season for EvenManagement right now. Unfortunatelly i have to agree with Mirek. At least PG had Suzuki ahah

Yes Essaj, cause Rovanpëra i think in father eheh

[Rallyper]

Let´s wait and see progress from the young guns. However it doesn´t look so good for PT. Then we have Oliver S in a few years ...

[stefanvv]

Yes Essaj, cause Rovanpëra i think in father eheh

When I search for "Kalle" in ewrc-results, this is what I got (drivers only):

Driver

https://www.ewrc-results.com/flags2/belgium.png Kallen, Jacques (https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/79806-jacques-kallen/)


https://www.ewrc-results.com/flags2/denmark.png Kallenbach, Maj-Britt (https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/7269-maj-britt-kallenbach/)


https://www.ewrc-results.com/flags2/germany.png Kallenbach, Robert (https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/77224-robert-kallenbach/)


https://www.ewrc-results.com/flags2/germany.png Kallensee, Patrick (https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/36746-patrick-kallensee/)

[Myrvold]

IMHO he hasn't shown any progress in last two years. I am afraid he will follow P-G Andersson's path.

Haven't his progress been pretty equal with Lappi over their WRC-2 years? For me it seems so at least, and the Veiby will have the exact same progress as well. Looks like they are all going through just the same programme, and also managing to get the same progress.

[dupanton]

I wasn't that convinced about Paddon and Breen neither, they seems to have been stuck in a lower class as well. But suddenly, they got their chance and did pretty good.

[BleAivano]

What you think about Pontus future? He will reach WRC top class?

I don't think so because there aren't enough sponsors willing to support a WRC drive for him which is the same issue as
for most other Swedish motorsport drivers (except Ekström and Marcus Eriksson).

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, right. Sweden WRT failled with Patrik Sandell early in 2010ties

[AnttiL]

I think he's got the skills and this year in WRC2 he has shown that he's capable of winning. I mean, even though the competition hasn't been that tough, but you still need to keep your head together all the way to the final stages even though you lead by minutes (just ask Mikkelsen). Tidemand would need a new team or someone retiring to get a WRC seat, especially now that people talk about Loeb returning and Mikkelsen is also floating around and Suninen has proved himself capable.

[nafpaktos]

Lappi also wasn't that impressive last year although he won wrc2 title,or suninen this year with wrc2 car.

[Simmi]

I think he's more than good enough for a WRC seat. I just don't see how he gets into one? In any game of musical chairs there is always someone left standing. And I think unfortunately that is Pontus.

[itix]

IMHO he hasn't shown any progress in last two years. I am afraid he will follow P-G Andersson's path.
Have to agree here. To break into the top class you need to do something extraordinary already at rc2 level competition. He is not quicker than Mikkelsen or Kopecky (most of the time anyway) and at least Kopecky never managed to do anything extraordinary in his time in the WRC (arguably not really Mikkelsen either).

Tidemand has been at this level for a while and he ain't going any further I'm pretty sure. There are bigger fish out there. Swedens time as a breeding ground for rally drivers is gone I'm afraid.

[Rallyper]

However you must be aware of PT driving WRC2 championship. That includes brain to get as many points as possible. Not the fastest wins championships over a whole season. PT is fast when needed also.
The overall conclusion might be correct, but saying he hasn´t shown progress ... noope.

[PLuto]

Problem of WRC2 is that you dont need to be fastest, the most important is to score points. It is better to finish on second or third places than push for win and retire once...

[AnttiL]

Problem of WRC2 is that you dont need to be fastest, the most important is to score points. It is better to finish on second or third places than push for win and retire once...

Another problem is that the best drivers don't always compete together, if you choose the right rallies you'll gain full points more easily. But while Tidemand may not be as fast as Mikkelsen or Veiby, he hasn't crashed out of lead like Mikkelsen or Veiby did in Portugal and Finland. It's not every driver who can win four events out of four starts. It takes some skill just to finish those tougher events without punctures or damage on the car.

[Mirek]

But that doesn't help much in getting in WRC. The decisive factor is pure raw speed.

[AnttiL]

But that doesn't help much in getting in WRC. The decisive factor is pure raw speed.

and contacts/sponsors.

[Rallyper]

Problem of WRC2 is that you dont need to be fastest, the most important is to score points. It is better to finish on second or third places than push for win and retire once...

Yeah. Just like Meeke then.

[Rallyper]

But that doesn't help much in getting in WRC. The decisive factor is pure raw speed.

Which PT doesn´t have?

[janvanvurpa]

. There are bigger fish out there. Swedens time as a breeding ground for rally drivers is gone I'm afraid.

And just that there is something that is while obvious to see, the reasons are less clear..In fact its baffling..

What has happened?
This question is especially irritating when you live someplace where the quality and speed of the North American national series is so low that looking at even Swedish DM level events and drivers there leaves most wondering how the hell they are so fast comparatively..

And yet so few to almost none go on to VM level..

What has happened to the land that once produced plenty of potential top drivers?

[janvanvurpa]

and contact$/$ponsor$.

$ponor$ $hould not be forgotten...To many it $eem$ like it may be the central i$$ue. Skill without the money to afford a car is useless.

[mknight]

What has happened to the land that once produced plenty of potential top drivers?

It goes in waves imo. Look at Finland 6-7 years ago Hirvonen and Latvala.. and then nothing. That said Sweden always had fewer rally drivers than Finland.

[Mirek]

Yeah. Just like Meeke then.

Meeke never drove WRC2 so what are you talking about?


Which PT doesn´t have?

The comparison with Mikkelsen in the same car was quite saying I think.

[Essaj]

Rally GB is going to be massive water breaker in WRC2 this year, Kalle Rovanperä driving his first race there and almost anyone who gets beaten by him can back their backs and stop dreaming about WRC seat and imo if Kalle is driving Skoda, there is no one in WRC2 that is going to beat him.

[AnttiL]

It goes in waves imo. Look at Finland 6-7 years ago Hirvonen and Latvala.. and then nothing. That said Sweden always had fewer rally drivers than Finland.

And now Lappi and Suninen and in the future Rovanperä and Huttunen...Sweden hasn't really had WRC winning pace drivers after Kenneth Eriksson. Tidemand could be the next one.

[Rallyper]

$ponor$ $hould not be forgotten...To many it $eem$ like it may be the central i$$ue. Skill without the money to afford a car is useless.

This is spot on. Money isn´t really flowing into the sport of rallying in Sweden. And never was. Back in the years drivers like Waldegård and Blomqvist for example just worked out their skills to factory seats. And they were outstanding in comparison at the time. Talented Swedes are maybe as many as in Finland and whatever, but never get their chances bcs of lack of money or promoters.

Have had serious talks with different people in rallyingbusiness why this situation has come and was last 20-30 years, and seriously found out big sponsors in Sweden rather put money in golf, horses and sailing, unfortenately.

[Rallyper]

Meeke never drove WRC2 so what are you talking about?



The comparison with Mikkelsen in the same car was quite saying I think.

You don´t really follow do you. Or just teasing?
Pls speed we can talk generally, right? Compare to Mikkelsen and PT, so what do say about comparing Kopecky to Ogier then?

[Mirek]

Pls speed we can talk generally, right? Compare to Mikkelsen and PT, so what do say about comparing Kopecky to Ogier then?

Completely irrelevant.

[nafpaktos]

But that doesn't help much in getting in WRC. The decisive factor is pure raw speed.

havent seen pure speed from hayden or breen before the step to wrc factory teams.

[AnttiL]

Money isn´t really flowing into the sport of rallying in Sweden. And never was.

Well at least Sweden had two car manufacturers and both were prominent in rallying, something that Finland has never had.

[Rallyper]

Well at least Sweden had two car manufacturers and both were prominent in rallying, something that Finland has never had.

Which shows what really matters. Money. And people willing to invest i good drivers. Swedish carmanufacturers put money maybe 40-50 years ago. Only one still remains. As chinese company.

[itix]

And now Lappi and Suninen and in the future Rovanperä and Huttunen...Sweden hasn't really had WRC winning pace drivers after Kenneth Eriksson. Tidemand could be the next one.
Tidemand is missing the pace mentioned in my opinion. Feels like he has hit the roof and he is not exactly young anymore.

There isn't much in the way of talent that's coming either and after Bergkvist who doesn't seem to be able to progress either, the Swedish rally hopes are pretty much gone.

[Rallyper]

Tidemand is missing the pace mentioned in my opinion. Feels like he has hit the roof and he is not exactly young anymore.

There isn't much in the way of talent that's coming either and after Bergkvist who doesn't seem to be able to progress either, the Swedish rally hopes are pretty much gone.

Oliver Solberg? Swedish citizen? Yes? Our only future. (But PT has the speed and what it takes, but as said too many other have as well)

[Essaj]

Oliver Solberg? Swedish citizen? Yes? Our only future. (But PT has the speed and what it takes, but as said too many other have as well)

Oliver is and will be norwegian. But don't you guys have Denis Rådström he still has a change to break through.

[Vincemon1285]

Are you really sure about that, when Oliver did his first rally with Petter, Oliver had a Swedish flag on the car and Petter a Norwigan flag.....

[cali]

Kalle Rovanperä had Latvian flag on his car, that does not mean je is latvian etc.

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[Rallyper]

Kalle Rovanperä had Latvian flag on his car, that does not mean je is latvian etc.

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So soon we´ll see Ogier with British flag then. Confusing I must say.

[Zeakiwi]

Has Johan Kristoffersen ever driven a rally? Could he be fast on a rally like Ekstrom was with the Skoda? Contender for a VW R5 drive when it is homologated?

[JUF]

Has Johan Kristoffersen ever driven a rally? Could he be fast on a rally like Ekstrom was with the Skoda?

He did! Look at his profile at ewrc-results.com: https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=93444

He always did an excellent job. He reminds me of Ekström as well: fast in every discipline, in every car, on every track... Fully deserves the World RX title this year!

[cali]

So soon we´ll see Ogier with British flag then. Confusing I must say.Possible if he decides to us british licence. Must say not confusing at all, specially if you are involved in rallying for a such a long time.

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[Andre Oliveira]

No. On WRC to change flag you need change nationality like Tempestini. The license nationality is irrelevant.

[Rallyper]

Possible if he decides to us british licence. Must say not confusing at all, specially if you are involved in rallying for a such a long time.

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Yeah have been. But license decides flag on car, didn´t know at all. Still confusing to me.

Edit: Didn´t read post above before posting mine.

[cali]

Yeah have been. But license decides flag on car, didn´t know at all. Still confusing to me.

Edit: Didn´t read post above before posting mine.Yeah, apparently in WRC is not that easy, but on national level I have seen many "strange" flags on cars.

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[Mirek]

License drives the flag on the car anywhere except WRC. WRC is the only exception where the flag is driven by actual nationality.

[itix]

License drives the flag on the car anywhere except WRC. WRC is the only exception where the flag is driven by actual nationality.
So just out of curiosity, if you have dual nationality, what flag will be on the car? The one you chose I presume?

[Lousada]

So just out of curiosity, if you have dual nationality, what flag will be on the car? The one you chose I presume?

Yes, for example Max Verstappen is born and raised in Belgium but he chooses the Dutch nationality of his father for commercial reasons.

[Mirek]

So just out of curiosity, if you have dual nationality, what flag will be on the car? The one you chose I presume?

As far as I know you can have dual citizenship but not dual nationality. But I am not sure that I use correct English words.

[EightGear]

Yes, for example Max Verstappen is born and raised in Belgium but he chooses the Dutch nationality of his father for commercial reasons.

Not really, it's because he identifies himself as being Dutch. He has never considered himself being Belgian.

[RS]

I don't see much reason to be negative about Tidemand. He is not quite there on asphalt yet but he has done pretty much everything right this year to seemingly take the title. He has beaten Suninen, although Tidemand perhaps has a slightly quicker car, and look how good Suninen was on his two World Rally Car outings so far.

Lappi had the edge on him last year but Lappi had more experience.

Only major problem is the lack of works drives in WRC.

[BleAivano]

I found this link on Rallyper's twitter; http://www.vf.se/rally/tidemands-manager-pratar-med-wrc-team/ Tidemand is in talks with WRC teams.
He is however not on the top of the list of the team's drivers wish list,

[Luijbregts]

Yes, for example Max Verstappen is born and raised in Belgium but he chooses the Dutch nationality of his father for commercial reasons.

Max does not choose the Dutch nationality, he has a Dutch passport!

[Andre Oliveira]

So what next to Tidemand? WRC2 with Skoda or with M-Sport? WRC with Toyota or M-Sport?

https://www.vf.se/rally/nu-ar-pontus-nasta-pusselbit/

[Simmi]

Got my fingers crossed for Pontus. Even if he does another year in WRC2 and wins I don't see an obvious landing spot for him.

With Andreas getting his deal at least EVEN can put their full weight behind getting him a 2018 programme.

[Mirek]

So what next to Tidemand? WRC2 with Skoda or with M-Sport? WRC with Toyota or M-Sport?

I don't expect him to continue with Škoda.

[Rallyper]

Maybe if Skoda comes with WRC car (ex Polo) ? :)

[the sniper]

Maybe if Skoda comes with WRC car (ex Polo) ? :)

Surely that ship has sailed now?

[Mirek]

Maybe if Skoda comes with WRC car (ex Polo) ? :)

That won't happen.

[Rallyper]

That won't happen.

I suppose so, as well. Couldn´t resist answer though.

[ESTR]

VW will not come back and if, it's one year without development. It wouldn't be competitive.

[WUff1]

It looks like time for Tidemand and Kopecky at Skoda is over. Kopecky already said something like that after Barum, and Skoda is already testing younger drivers.

[ESTR]

Maybe Skoda will pull out because of MEM's Proton and Hyundai's i20.. Or Holzer's Opel Corsa... And newly Citroen C3... I heard some rumours they are in talk of their future of CEO.

Look right now they have only one competition and that was M-Sport. Sme story in top game with VW. They had only M-Sport and then came Hyundai. VW knows that Hyundai is in development stage and will not be better. As soon Citroen and Toyota join the game, Hyundai gets a lot better they go out and tell is financial reasons and a week later they invest money into Rallycross!!!

Just saying...

[TWRC]

It looks like time for Tidemand and Kopecky at Skoda is over. Kopecky already said something like that after Barum, and Skoda is already testing younger drivers.
It'd be very interesting if Citroën picked up Kopecký for a WRC2 title challenge with the C3 R5, and maybe testing duties for the WRC as well, but I can't see any chance of that happening unfortunately.

[AnttiL]

It'd be very interesting if Citroën picked up Kopecký for a WRC2 title challenge with the C3 R5

Or maybe some other team?

[sete]

Hope Kopecky find any other team he deserves that.
Maybe VW which will begin tests soon with thier Polo R5.
But I am just dreaming

[RS]

I guess it's too late for Kopecky to have a World Rally Car career but I would like to have seen him get some drives in a top-line car.

He is not world champion material, but I think he could have been like a Czech Sordo.. reliable points scorer on gravel and the odd asphalt win maybe.

I suppose next year depends on whether Skoda take Veiby and Nordgren or they choose between the two.

[pantealex]

Or maybe some other team?

That´s what I have heard.

[RS]

That´s what I have heard.

Hmm, Finnish dudes so you mean Toyota to develop the Yaris R5..

[pantealex]

Hmm, Finnish dudes so you mean Toyota to develop the Yaris R5..

This time NO, but Kalle could be joining TGR...

[Rallyper]

Isn´t this PT topic?

[ESTR]

I think that everyone sees only Kalle. He heave complicated situation because he is too young to drive almost everywhere. If they will put him too soon in wrc car that could go into disaster. He doen't know his limits yet. He need to learn more...

[BleAivano]

I would love to see Pontus do WRC in a factory car but I think his chances are very slim.

[Rallyper]

I don´t see him giving up. And he has manager who might solve his seat. And of course how things develop in the surrounding teams in WRC.

[Andre Oliveira]

Veiby made some contacts this weekend. Lets see.

Tommi said that can have sattelite team. Maybe Tidemand + Japanese runned by MM.

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2017/tidemand/page/4936--12-12-.html

PONTUS TIDEMAND'S MANAGER BELIEVES THE YOUNG SWEDE IS READY TO STEP UP FROM WRC 2 TO WORLD RALLY CAR MACHINERY – AND HE HOPES TO FIND HIM A SEAT WITH A TOP-LINE TEAM NEXT YEAR.

Tidemand is one of the WRC's rising stars after winning the Junior championship in 2013 and securing this year's WRC 2 title at ADAC Rallye Deutschland, thanks to four victories with Skoda Motorsport.
Erik Veiby told the WRC Live Podcast he was monitoring the 2018 driver market "very closely" to find a suitable world rally car opening for his driver, and that developments at M-Sport were of particular interest.
"He is really ready to move on," Veiby said. "When you see the guys he has been competing with, like Esapekka Lappi and Teemu Suninen, and how well they have done when they have come up [to drive a world rally car].
"Two years ago I was worried that it would be too much of a step to go from R5 to a 2017 world rally car but it seems the step is not so big as I was afraid of."
In an interview with Becs Williams, Veiby revealed that a fourth season with Skoda Motorsport in WRC 2 was another option being considered.
"First of all there is an option with Skoda," he explained. "The other option is to see where some of the more established WRC drivers end up. There are strong rumours around where Sébastien Ogier and Ott Tänak might go. In a way we are waiting to see where the last pieces of the puzzle end up.
"This is the WRC silly season, so we are following it very closely to see if we can find a 'learning' spot for Pontus."

[ESTR]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2017/tidemand/page/4936--12-12-.html

PONTUS TIDEMAND'S MANAGER BELIEVES THE YOUNG SWEDE IS READY TO STEP UP FROM WRC 2 TO WORLD RALLY CAR MACHINERY – AND HE HOPES TO FIND HIM A SEAT WITH A TOP-LINE TEAM NEXT YEAR.

Tidemand is one of the WRC's rising stars after winning the Junior championship in 2013 and securing this year's WRC 2 title at ADAC Rallye Deutschland, thanks to four victories with Skoda Motorsport.
Erik Veiby told the WRC Live Podcast he was monitoring the 2018 driver market "very closely" to find a suitable world rally car opening for his driver, and that developments at M-Sport were of particular interest.
"He is really ready to move on," Veiby said. "When you see the guys he has been competing with, like Esapekka Lappi and Teemu Suninen, and how well they have done when they have come up [to drive a world rally car].
"Two years ago I was worried that it would be too much of a step to go from R5 to a 2017 world rally car but it seems the step is not so big as I was afraid of."
In an interview with Becs Williams, Veiby revealed that a fourth season with Skoda Motorsport in WRC 2 was another option being considered.
"First of all there is an option with Skoda," he explained. "The other option is to see where some of the more established WRC drivers end up. There are strong rumours around where Sébastien Ogier and Ott Tänak might go. In a way we are waiting to see where the last pieces of the puzzle end up.
"This is the WRC silly season, so we are following it very closely to see if we can find a 'learning' spot for Pontus."

Quite clear about that. If one go from M-Sport he is in. Simple..

[AnttiL]

Quite clear about that. If one go from M-Sport he is in. Simple..

What about Suninen or Camilli? It's not that simple.

[Andre Oliveira]

Camilli had 2 years contract + 1 option. But i think that will use the 1 year option next year.

[ESTR]

He is WRC2 champion, suninen and camilli are not. And Tidemand have great manager behind him.

[Andre Oliveira]

Suninen have better manager ;)

[pantealex]

He is WRC2 champion, suninen and camilli are not. And Tidemand have great manager behind him.

Camilli and Suninen have WRC car experience...

Tidemand is good driver, deserves chance with WRC17 (or18)

[Rallyper]

Camilli and Suninen have WRC car experience...

Tidemand is good driver, deserves chance with WRC17 (or18)

And Tidemand also has WRC car experience. ;)

[Allez Andruet]

Although Swedes are never your biggest favourites if you're a Finn, Tidemand definitely deserves a chance to show his potential in a World Rally Car. It's almost a bit Hänninen-esque situation for Tidemand now. He's been waiting patiently for his shot, but it's about time to finally get it. If he has to wait another year again, there are Rovanperä, Huttunen and others knocking on the same door for 2018, which won't make it any easier. Would be a real shame if Tidemand doesn't get atleast 4-6 outings in a 2017/2018-spec WRC next year.

[Rallyper]

Although Swedes are never your biggest favourites if you're a Finn, Tidemand definitely deserves a chance to show his potential in a World Rally Car. It's almost a bit Hänninen-esque situation for Tidemand now. He's been waiting patiently for his shot, but it's about time to finally get it. If he has to wait another year again, there are Rovanperä, Huttunen and others knocking on the same door for 2018, which won't make it any easier. Would be a real shame if Tidemand doesn't get atleast 4-6 outings in a 2017/2018-spec WRC next year.

However my friend Pantealex and me are quite agreed on PT matter, I do think. :)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39958-WRC-News-amp-Rumours-2019&p=1200894&viewfull=1#post1200894


Pontus need to be in M-Sport Fiesta WRC. NOW OR NEVER!

Like i said in november 27th. Pontus in WRC should be now or never.

[the sniper]

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39958-WRC-News-amp-Rumours-2019&p=1200894&viewfull=1#post1200894



Like i said in november 27th. Pontus in WRC should be now or never.

You first said it November 22nd, I remembered replying. ;) https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39983-Silly-Season-2019&p=1200609&viewfull=1#post1200609

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes :) and it looks... that is NOW =D and as Pontus fan... i will be very happy.

[able1]

Pontus chose the worst time to leave r5 and climb to wrc. Why should any team pick him over drivers like Paddon and Breen who as we know are without a works seat next season. In any case Paddon and Breen are much safer choice. Lets not forget that there is only one possible seat available and thats incase msport is still there in 2019.

[Allez Andruet]

Pontus chose the worst time to leave r5 and climb to wrc. Why should any team pick him over drivers like Paddon and Breen who as we know are without a works seat next season.
He's not getting picked over Paddon or Breen, he probably (and hopefully) has managed to gather up a package that opens the door at M-Sport. And I for one would much rather see Pontus get his well-deserved chance in the main class than Paddon or Breen taking the last available seat. Sounds a bit rude, but both of them had their chance. Now let's see what kind of action Pontus can bring into WRC.

[AnttiL]

Like Paddon has stated, Hyundai is his only option. Also, we could possibly see both Tidemand and Breen at M-Sport at various events. I doubt either would do a full season anyway.

[deephouse]

He have last chance because most probably Kalle will be up there in 2020 if everything goes as planned. And we all know that everyone involved is hungry for more, even Meeke won't retire after that season. Maybe Solberg want a drive too.

[mknight]

And we all know that everyone involved is hungry for more, even Meeke won't retire after that season. Maybe Solberg want a drive too.

Whether a driver retires is usually not up to him alone to decide :)

Anyway If choice for some team is between Tidemand, Breen, Paddon and Østberg then it's up to the aims of the team.

Paddon and Østberg are better choice for secure manu points (for example 3rd car at Citroen, though both are slow on tarmac).

Tidemand is an unknown that potentialy can be better and cash them some money when he moves on (or not), so good choice for Msport. At this moment I don't have much faith in Pontus. But multiple drivers have performed better or worse in different categories before. Also Suninen wasn't all that impressive in R5 while his 2017 WRC starts were impressive. (2018 less so)

Breen ends up somewhere between those driver types.

[deephouse]

Then let's not forget that Toyota is seriously invested in Katsuta with so extensive programe for 2019. Maybe in 2020 they want him in.

[Tarmop]

Pontus chose the worst time to leave r5 and climb to wrc. Why should any team pick him over drivers like Paddon and Breen who as we know are without a works seat next season. In any case Paddon and Breen are much safer choice. Lets not forget that there is only one possible seat available and thats incase msport is still there in 2019.

Look at his age and experience...too early.

[er88]

Then let's not forget that Toyota is seriously invested in Katsuta with so extensive programe for 2019. Maybe in 2020 they want him in.Don't think he'll take any existing seat though, no matter what. If he has a good year they'll just run a 4th car for Katsuta, the Japanese will pay for it.

[Rallyper]

Kalle aiming for Toyota. MSport isn´t an option for him in 2020, if nothing dramatic happens for Malcolms team, meaning he founds some big fundings.

[the sniper]

Worth noting here that Pontus said on Twitter/Facebook that he has left Even Management.

https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/1075317007728500737?s=09

[deephouse]

OK it's understandable that he left Skoda and seek new opportunities in the way of the top of the WRC. But why he left his management? Doesn't they do enough for him or what? I don't get it, what benefit he will now have with no manager.

[Essaj]

OK it's understandable that he left Skoda and seek new opportunities in the way of the top of the WRC. But why he left his management? Doesn't they do enough for him or what? I don't get it, what benefit he will now have with no manager.

Why would he stay with his management if they wont help him? If Even is not willing to use money on Pontus he has no reason to stay there.

[deephouse]

Probably he wouldn't be WRC2, JWRC champion, 3rd place in ERX (with EKS), 8th WRX (again EKS) and sitting for four years in factory Skoda without EVEN. Yes he would achieve that like Bertelli for example. So it's not that bad to have them as managers.

Not that they won't, they can't if the driver market was so full these days with much talent and Kalle next rising star it's even harder even for them to achieve a factory seat.

[skarderud]

Some says that the people behind Marcus Eriksson's F1-carriere is the New managment of Pontus, and that they have lots of money to support him.
M-sport need those money, seems like Pontus have news one of the next days.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[KiwiWRCfan]

Tweet by @CbWrc
Swedsih driver Pontus Tidemand join M-Sport ? Pressconferens in this afternnon . Follow on our webbsida. #WRC #WRC2 #Rally #Rallysweden

their website is https://cbmediasweden.se/

[Zeakiwi]

Does that mean Evans is benched or back to wrc2 to promote the new fiesta r5? or Evans can be co-driver for Tidemand?

[Essaj]

Does that mean Evans is benched or back to wrc2 to promote the new fiesta r5? or Evans can be co-driver for Tidemand?

How do you people get to these conclusions? There is still WRC cars available for Evans - Tidemand possibly joining them dosen't change anything unless reported ex Eriksson backers bring good money to M-Sport to help them which would just help the whole team which would also help Evans.

[AnttiL]

Yeah. I wouldn't expect Tidemand to do a whole season anyway.

[skarderud]

Monte Carlo and sweden in M-sport WRC for Pontus and newold codriver Emil Axelsson!

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Allez Andruet]

Excellent news! Grattis Pontus!

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.pontustidemand.se/pontus-tidemand-to-take-place-in-a-ford-fiesta-wrc/

[Rallyper]

Yeah. I wouldn't expect Tidemand to do a whole season anyway.

I think they are playing it safe, at the beginning. If they have plans for whole or part of season, it wouldn´t be told now. Let´s wait and see.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@MSportLtd
Welcome to the team Pontus ! We're looking forward to having you back behind the wheel of one of our top-specification Fiestas again ! 👊 https://t.co/YrXjAwwnUt

[EstWRC]

so happy for him, finally!

[Andre Oliveira]

Ola Fløene is the codriver of Pontus

[Rallyper]

Wasn´t it talks about Emil Axelsson? Or was it only in my mind?

[Entertainer]

Wasn´t it talks about Emil Axelsson? Or was it only in my mind?

Maybe Ola for Monte and Emil for Sweden?
Regardless it won’t be easy in Monte, given
- first outing in WRC17-car
- only been to Monte once before, in R5-car
- new (old) co-driver he hasn’t worked with for some time

If he even gets close to Suninen/Evans/anyone else in WRC in Monte it’s an upset.

[AnttiL]

Back to testing a Skoda https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/1136359575706316800

[Rallyper]

Back to testing a Skoda https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/1136359575706316800

So it could mean something, not only for Pontus... Changes to Rally Finland?

[AnttiL]

Could he be buying a new Skoda for his own team?

[Rallyper]

Could he be buying a new Skoda for his own team?

Who are the Skodadrivers nominated for NRF? Could we see Kalle in WRC car and PT in WRC2Pro?

[AnttiL]

Could we see Kalle in WRC car

I really don't think we will see Kalle in a WRC car before 2020.

[RS]

I guess Skoda were doing some testing on the way back from Portugal and wanted another opinion on the new car (and maybe Jan and Kalle were a bit knackered after last week!)

Anyway, nice to see Pontus and Skoda on good terms, and I see Ola dug out his old 'Skoda UK Motorsport' overalls from the Mikelssen days: https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/1136359146356432899

[Rallyper]

I really don't think we will see Kalle in a WRC car before 2020.

I was thinking of one outing just for the feeling. Finland could be that one...

[AnttiL]

I was thinking of one outing just for the feeling. Finland could be that one...

It's just that he's contracted to Skoda, and apparently they're typically quite strict with their deals. In fact, he's still contracted for next year as well, unless he manages to get a WRC deal.

[Tarmop]

How long a sportsman has to spend in the Finnish army? 3 months?
(Rovanperä is going there this autumn)

[Allez Andruet]

How long a sportsman has to spend in the Finnish army? 3 months?
(Rovanperä is going there this autumn)

Minimum of 6 months, but it's not like you're there all the time. More of a PR thing tbh. I don't think Kalle has to skip any rallies.

[pantealex]

Who are the Skodadrivers nominated for NRF?

Kalle and Kopecky
or
Kalle and last years NRF WRC2 winner Pietarinen
or
Kalle and Pontus

btw.Pontus should start with WRC-car, maybe his last chance resultwise for this year (Rally GB is too far away for any future negotations)

[Tarmop]

Is this just a thought or a rumour (Pontus driving a WRC in Finland)?

[SubaruNorway]

Is this just a thought or a rumour (Pontus driving a WRC in Finland)?

Not driving Finland, hopefully some more later in the year
https://parcferme.no/rally/slik-er-pontus-sine-videre-wrc-planer-sammen-med-m-sport-utover-sesongen/

[RS]

Kalle and Kopecky
or
Kalle and last years NRF WRC2 winner Pietarinen
or
Kalle and Pontus

Kopecky hasn’t driven Finland since 2007, so I think it’s highly unlikely he’ll start there. Pietarinen would be my bet.

[pantealex]

Kopecky hasn’t driven Finland since 2007, so I think it’s highly unlikely he’ll start there. Pietarinen would be my bet.

I would also bet Pietarinen

but Kopecky will drive every event what factory allows/wants him to do.

[Entertainer]

Not driving Finland, hopefully some more later in the year
https://parcferme.no/rally/slik-er-pontus-sine-videre-wrc-planer-sammen-med-m-sport-utover-sesongen/

It's behind a pay-wall, can't read the link.

Without the information in above linked article, I would assume and hope Pontus aims for 2-3 more WRC-rallies this year with M-sport:
Germany and Spain I would believe are good targets, and maybe maybe perhaps Turkey.

- Germany? Yes, he has won here before once or twice, even beating Tanak in the WRC2...
- Spain? I think he likes this one too, with mixed surface and he has a good history here.
- Turkey? Relatively new rally to all of the drivers, more equal terms, good training for writing pace notes.

Wales? No, that M-sport-seat is probably in Greensmiths hands here - for many clearcut reasons.
Finland? Naah, unfortunately :( , Pontus has never been dominant here and it was a long time since he drove the rally.
Australia? Uhm no.

[mknight]

Sadly it looks more and more like Atkinson in 2009.
Used a lot of money early in the season without a clear plan for the rest hopping some miracle funds will arrive.

[Barreis]

yeah, i remember that Ireland and telegraph pool hit with c4

[AnttiL]

It's behind a pay-wall, can't read the link.

Without the information in above linked article, I would assume and hope Pontus aims for 2-3 more WRC-rallies this year with M-sport:
Germany and Spain I would believe are good targets, and maybe maybe perhaps Turkey.

- Germany? Yes, he has won here before once or twice, even beating Tanak in the WRC2...
- Spain? I think he likes this one too, with mixed surface and he has a good history here.
- Turkey? Relatively new rally to all of the drivers, more equal terms, good training for writing pace notes.

Wales? No, that M-sport-seat is probably in Greensmiths hands here - for many clearcut reasons.
Finland? Naah, unfortunately :( , Pontus has never been dominant here and it was a long time since he drove the rally.
Australia? Uhm no.

Germany and Turkey must be extremely difficult events to start on a WRC car for the first time, although in Turkey you could probably secure a top 5 position by just cruising through, if you're lucky...I would choose Spain and Wales. I don't think M-Sport would have an issue to set up two customer cars on one rally if someone's paying. Also, Finland was already written off in an earlier interview.

[masa90]

Hoping all the best for Tidemand. Not sure why he has looked so slow in a wrc of this generation. He drove really well in wrc2 and also in older wrc in Sweden.

[AnttiL]

Hoping all the best for Tidemand. Not sure why he has looked so slow in a wrc of this generation.

Too expensive to bin it, I guess.

[cali]

Hoping all the best for Tidemand. Not sure why he has looked so slow in a wrc of this generation. He drove really well in wrc2 and also in older wrc in Sweden.These 2017 spec cars seem to be bit difficult to adapt I guess

[the sniper]

I recall Tidemand struggled quite a lot on Rally GB last year, he wasn't comfortable, and got beaten by Rovanperä by a good margin. As such I can't see him wanting to do GB.

Funnily enough at the time I was surprised by that result. I like Tidemand, but that result seemed a bit surprising/unpromising.

[SubaruNorway]

Remember that the conditions in Sweden were very hard this year, TV images didn't show it at all how big the slush ruts were with a little stream of water running in them some places. He looked pretty quick where i was though. Better to judge after a more normal gravel rally i think.

[Rallyper]

Remember that the conditions in Sweden were very hard this year, TV images didn't show it at all how big the slush ruts were with a little stream of water running in them some places. He looked pretty quick where i was though. Better to judge after a more normal gravel rally i think.

Yeah. People who judge him only from two rallies this winter don´t know much what it takes to be fast on top WRC level.

[doubled1978]

Yeah. People who judge him only from two rallies this winter don´t know much what it takes to be fast on top WRC level.

I agree, which is why I said a while back that maybe in hindsight he would have chosen two events with more stable conditions to give himself a better chance to shine, Portugal - Sardinia for example.
Monte and a slushy Sweden were hard for anybody, let alone someone trying to learn the car.

[mknight]

I agree, which is why I said a while back that maybe in hindsight he would have chosen two events with more stable conditions to give himself a better chance to shine, Portugal - Sardinia for example.
Monte and a slushy Sweden were hard for anybody, let alone someone trying to learn the car.

Exactly my thoughts. While he couldn't know how Sweden would look like 2 months beforehand, choosing to spend the money on Monte doesn't look like very good decision. Even worse is off course that he didn't seem to have a plan ready for a gravel outing later in the year.

[Rallyper]

It´s not about chosing two events. It´s about running as many rallies you get. Two isn´t enough. That´s what I´, trying to say.

[Entertainer]

Yeah. People who judge him only from two rallies this winter don´t know much what it takes to be fast on top WRC level.

Exactly.
Take Sweden - First stages were obviously tough and conditions extremely difficult for someone who wasn't used to the car.
Already stage 5 though, after correcting some issues with the car, he was up to speed and had 4th time, stage 6-7 he was driving better with stage times on par with Lappi and quicker than some of the drivers with many seasons in the car.
Saturday, again struggling with changes in diff, until the afternoon where his speed is close to the WRC-rivals.
Sunday is disappointing, had hoped for more.
But all in all, he didn't want to make mistakes, he wanted to have a mature drive, get a good feeling and get to the goal.

Gus Greensmiths performance in Portugal is a lot like Pontus' in Sweden, although I think people had expected more from WRC2 champion, including me. Hope he delivers in one of the two rallies that still hopefully will come this year.

[RS]

Too expensive to bin it, I guess.

They are insured aren’t they? Or is it like road car insurance where there is an excess to pay?

[AnttiL]

They are insured aren’t they? Or is it like road car insurance where there is an excess to pay?

AFAIK certain insurances are optional

[Rallyper]

They are insured aren’t they? Or is it like road car insurance where there is an excess to pay?

For sure. Fifteen years ago it was more than 5000 Euros to pay even if the car had insurance.

[RS]

Pretty underwhelming performance by Pontus again in Turkey, but at least he made it to the end, and this rally isn’t really the best one to show the speed.

But GB will be his 4th event in the Fiesta and I think it’s fair to say we should start to expect some more by then.

[meh]

Pretty underwhelming performance by Pontus again in Turkey, but at least he made it to the end, and this rally isn’t really the best one to show the speed.

But GB will be his 4th event in the Fiesta and I think it’s fair to say we should start to expect some more by then.

Just a reminder, that he was 1st on the road saturday-sunday. Hard to expect really good times from that position. I think it's "job-well-done" rally for him.

[mknight]

His performance here certainly won't make anyone hire him.

Sure last on the road on Friday probably wasn't that much of an advantage, still Lappi managed to lead from similar road position.

He really needs to do a few competetive stage times in GB to show he can drive fast.

[the sniper]

I was honestly surprised he picked to do GB in the WRC, he seemed a bit lost here last year and got beaten by Kalle. Hope he does well though, obviously.

[Entertainer]

Loving it how some people on this forum don't see any problem with other drivers taking YEARS to produce results (Tanak for example), but Tidemand is expected to go superfast on his THIRD rally EVER (and in 8 months) in the new car.
Ridiculous.
Not everybody can do a Lappi and win in his fourth rally.

What is a bit underwhelming though, I agree, is his distance in time to the middle of the field when given strong starting position, on home soil in Sweden and on certain stages in Turkey this weekend.

He needs to show times closer to/sometimes faster than Suninen/Mikkelsen/Breen in Wales, when given proper starting position... it's either that or difficult to see why sponsors should keep spending money on him in 2020... :(

[er88]

Hes got a problem that Greensmith has looked better on his outings.

[the sniper]

Hes got a problem that Greensmith has looked better on his outings.

And I think we all expected him to be much further away from the pack then he was, while we expected Pontus to be much closer.

[cali]

Loving it how some people on this forum don't see any problem with other drivers taking YEARS to produce results (Tanak for example), but Tidemand is expected to go superfast on his THIRD rally EVER (and in 8 months) in the new car.
Ridiculous.
Not everybody can do a Lappi and win in his fourth rally.

What is a bit underwhelming though, I agree, is his distance in time to the middle of the field when given strong starting position, on home soil in Sweden and on certain stages in Turkey this weekend.

He needs to show times closer to/sometimes faster than Suninen/Mikkelsen/Breen in Wales, when given proper starting position... it's either that or difficult to see why sponsors should keep spending money on him in 2020... :(You quite honestly have mixed up speed and results. Lot of young guns have showed flashes of speed while not produced results.

Quite frankly Pontus hasn't done neither of them and it's worrysome as he seemed very promising in the lower classes.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

You quite honestly have mixed up speed and results. Lot of young guns have showed flashes of speed while not produced results.

Quite frankly Pontus hasn't done neither of them and it's worrysome as he seemed very promising in the lower classes.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

I think you mix up different drivers situations.

Some drivers have full backup finacially and just have to concentrate on driving without thinking of consequences. Some have funding problems and gets random drives and still expected to be close to the top.

Turkey was PT first gravel event in WRC17 car. What did we expect? Honestly, I did expect him to be even closer. But thinking it over one more time, you have to see the whole picture. Turkey, one of the hardest events, and we want PT to be top five?
That wasn´t fair to expect.
He needed miles and miles in that car. He got it now. We have to wait for Wales and then judge him.

But still - all guys in WRC have had so much more drives before they started getting proper times, believe me.

[EstWRC]

i think nobody expected him to be TOP 5 on this event. what i want to see from him is some speed from time to time, but so far nothing...im sorry but all the outings have been disappointing for me so far.

im not writing him off but like cali said, he seemed so promising in lower classes.

[Jarek Z]

But still - all guys in WRC have had so much more drives before they started getting proper times, believe me.

Exactly! In the times when Loeb, Ogier, Tanak or Mikkelsen were starting their careers it was possible to drive WRC cars without being in a factory team. I think Mikkelsen had had over 30 starts in a WRC car before he joined a factory team. Now it is actually impossible to drive a current WRC car as a private driver. Both Tidemand and Greensmith are victims of this situation. They have to learn this car during a WRC rally.

Have a look, Mikkelsen was driving a WRC car already in 2006, 7 years before joining Volkswagen Motorsport in WRC, he had plenty of experience:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/68-andreas-mikkelsen/

[AnttiL]

But still - all guys in WRC have had so much more drives before they started getting proper times, believe me.

Neuville first WRC drives in 2012:
- Monte 5th on SS3, crash on SS4
- Sweden good times only on super specials
- Mexico top five times on the first stages

Tänak first WRC drives in 2011-2012
- Wales 6th on first gravel stage. Best stage result 3rd, 6th overall
- Monte 8th overall, best stage result 4th
- Sweden mostly out of pace, best stage results 6th and 5th
- Mexico 3rd on the power stage, 5th overall

Ogier won his first stage in a WRC car in Wales 2008.

Suninen won his fifth stage in a WRC car in Poland 2017

Lappi won multiple stages and the power stage in his second rally in a WRC car in Sardegna 2017

[EstWRC]

Neuville first WRC drives in 2012:
- Monte 5th on SS3, crash on SS4
- Sweden good times only on super specials
- Mexico top five times on the first stages

and he had his first stage win on that rally


Tänak first WRC drives in 2011-2012
- Wales 6th on first gravel stage. Best stage result 3rd, 6th overall
- Monte 8th overall, best stage result 4th
- Sweden mostly out of pace, best stage results 6th and 5th

I have info that he got his first stage win there, his 3rd event with WRC car.

[AnttiL]

Both occasions refer to super specials, but in a way it's true. I just naturally skip them because it doesn't really tell anything if you win a mickey mouse stage in Mexico ;)

[EstWRC]

Both occasions refer to super specials, but in a way it's true. I just naturally skip them because it doesn't really tell anything if you win a mickey mouse stage in Mexico ;)

i get what you mean but in the statistic books it goes as a first stage win, mickey mouse or not.

Tänaks first "real" stage win was then in Portugal 2012, SS4, his 5th event.

Neuvilles Argentina 2012, SS13, also his 5th event.

[Allez Andruet]

You don't have to be fast on your first WRC outing, or on your tenth, if you have the budget to "gather experience" for a couple of seasons. I wouldn't be so sure that's the case with Tidemand, so he better show something and do it soon. Yes, the competition is extremely tight right now in the main class, but still, for a driver with Pontus' reputation these first three rallies must be classified as disappointments. At the moment Tidemand reminds me of Tapio Laukkanen - Finn who could match anyone in F2, but just couldn't come to grips with WRC machinery.

[cali]

I think you mix up different drivers situations.

Some drivers have full backup finacially and just have to concentrate on driving without thinking of consequences. Some have funding problems and gets random drives and still expected to be close to the top.

Turkey was PT first gravel event in WRC17 car. What did we expect? Honestly, I did expect him to be even closer. But thinking it over one more time, you have to see the whole picture. Turkey, one of the hardest events, and we want PT to be top five?
That wasn´t fair to expect.
He needed miles and miles in that car. He got it now. We have to wait for Wales and then judge him.

But still - all guys in WRC have had so much more drives before they started getting proper times, believe me.Tell me just who had full financial backup and had not to worry about consequences excl. wealthy norwegians??

What I'm telling you is that the likes like Neuville, Ogier, Tänak and Latvala were setting fast times right out of the box and actually cannot remember anyone who was setting uncompetitive times and went on to challenge podiums and wins on constant basis. Just the history of rallying does not back up your theory Per.


I'm not writing him off but even Greensmith is looking more promising at the moment. Hopefully we can see Pontus's real speed in Wales, I really really hope so.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[cali]

i get what you mean but in the statistic books it goes as a first stage win, mickey mouse or not.

Tänaks first "real" stage win was then in Portugal 2012, SS4, his 5th event.

Neuvilles Argentina 2012, SS13, also his 5th event.And these are stage wins. If my memory serves well they were matching top speed or being close to top pace right from the box. Yes, usually if a young gun goes berzerk they crash. And oh boy they crashed but the speed was there from the start for anyone to see.

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[doubled1978]

Unless he has budget for quite a few more outings after Wales, he could do with showing something in Wales. He has shown nothing in terms of pace in 3 rallies so far....

[AnttiL]

Now it is actually impossible to drive a current WRC car as a private driver.

Not true. Was only for 2017 (and still Østberg ran a private car, only entered always by M-Sport)

[USER47]

Not true. Was only for 2017 (and still Østberg ran a private car, only entered always by M-Sport)
Maybe not impossible, but definitely far more difficult than before 2017. There was a good interview with Prokop abour a year ago, and he mentioned some challenges with the new cars. His team had always ran a private WRC spec car, but apparently with the new spec there is a massive ramp up in the costs. All the carbon fibre aero which gets torn off all the time apparently means massive extra maintenance costs compared to previous spec cars, so running WRC spec now becomes almost impossible for anyone except the manufacturers.

Prokop's team joined together with Ostberg's, trying to make it work, but as you can see, it didn't last very long.

[AnttiL]

Maybe not impossible, but definitely far more difficult than before 2017.

That is true. It's simply more expensive. But not prohibited by the rules like in 2017.

Another thing might be that the competition across the field is a lot tighter than before. There's now four factory teams and all their drivers could have podium pace. The cars are also more reliable, as we saw in Turkey. Previously a private driver could expect to get a top 6 position by just finishing the rally with no issues.

[Rallyper]

Neuville first WRC drives in 2012:
- Monte 5th on SS3, crash on SS4
- Sweden good times only on super specials
- Mexico top five times on the first stages

Tänak first WRC drives in 2011-2012
- Wales 6th on first gravel stage. Best stage result 3rd, 6th overall
- Monte 8th overall, best stage result 4th
- Sweden mostly out of pace, best stage results 6th and 5th
- Mexico 3rd on the power stage, 5th overall

Ogier won his first stage in a WRC car in Wales 2008.

Suninen won his fifth stage in a WRC car in Poland 2017

Lappi won multiple stages and the power stage in his second rally in a WRC car in Sardegna 2017

Yeah. You are good at statistics. Leaving out everything except times...

[Rallyper]

You don't have to be fast on your first WRC outing, or on your tenth, if you have the budget to "gather experience" for a couple of seasons. I wouldn't be so sure that's the case with Tidemand, so he better show something and do it soon. Yes, the competition is extremely tight right now in the main class, but still, for a driver with Pontus' reputation these first three rallies must be classified as disappointments. At the moment Tidemand reminds me of Tapio Laukkanen - Finn who could match anyone in F2, but just couldn't come to grips with WRC machinery.

Three rallies three different surfaces ... but true, some glimses was expected...

[Rallyper]

Not true. Was only for 2017 (and still Østberg ran a private car, only entered always by M-Sport)

But with money.

[Hartusvuori]

His best stage result is SSS1 from Turkey where he finished 3rd. On SS5 in Sweden he finished 4th. Apart from those two it've been always 8th or lower.

That SS5 from Sweden is his best speed compared to the stage winner, 0,40s/km slower. In Sweden he did 11 stages with speed less than 1s/km slower than the stage winner, but only that one stage with less than 0,5s/km difference.

Apart from SSS1 in Turkey, he was never less than 1s/km behind the stage winner in Turkey or Monte Carlo, but further - 1,27s/km being the closest difference in RMC and 1,08s/km in Turkey.

He is driving to build he's career further. He turns 29 years old in December. How much time he has to build that experience and condifence in a World Rally Car? The steps he have taken or at least planned to take this season, should've happened 3-4 years ago already.

[Pršljen]

Greensmith left a better impression than Tidemand even though he is so much younger and less experienced. That says it all. As for now, with so many drivers on the market, I don't see a place for him in WRC car. Only if he brings a big budget in M-sport but that's not to be expected

[Rallyper]

He is driving to build he's career further. He turns 29 years old in December. How much time he has to build that experience and condifence in a World Rally Car? The steps he have taken or at least planned to take this season, should've happened 3-4 years ago already.

Thanks Teemu. Right words. Couldn´t have said (well tried to since january) better myself.

If the plan is/was good could be discussed. (Maybe that was why you said "wrong" on TW...) ;)

[AnttiL]

Yeah. You are good at statistics. Leaving out everything except times...

What do you mean?

[RS]

I think you mix up different drivers situations.

Some drivers have full backup finacially and just have to concentrate on driving without thinking of consequences. Some have funding problems and gets random drives and still expected to be close to the top.

I hope then that he has a healthy dialogue with his sponsors and a longer term commitment from them. No WRC team is going to sign him based on his performances this year so he needs that funding to continue into next year, maybe sharing third Fiesta with Greensmith again?

[Rallyper]

What do you mean?

My recent arguments about PT has been about more than just numbers...

answering with only statistics isn´t enough. Not to me.

[AnttiL]

Choosing Monte and Turkey seems odd, as they're very difficult events to show pace. For Tidemand, Sweden was a logical choice. Monte was considered a preparation event for that. Why not do Arctic Rally instead? Or did his sponsors want the media attention from Monte instead? Or M-Sport couldn't deliver service there at the same time?

Then, why not Portugal and Sardegna? Tidemand has had a good pace in those rallies and generally drivers starting from the back can achieve good stage times. They are similar to each other and with only a two week gap. Early enough in the season to remind the team bosses. Did Greensmith ruin Tidemand's plans by reserving the client car from Portugal?

EDIT: Also, I understand that his budget and deal with M-Sport may have meant that he must take it easy in order not to crash the car. But at the same time you can wonder why he's paying for a drive at all if he's not allowed to show any pace?

[AnttiL]

His best stage result is SSS1 from Turkey where he finished 3rd. On SS5 in Sweden he finished 4th. Apart from those two it've been always 8th or lower.

That SS5 from Sweden is his best speed compared to the stage winner, 0,40s/km slower. In Sweden he did 11 stages with speed less than 1s/km slower than the stage winner, but only that one stage with less than 0,5s/km difference.

Apart from SSS1 in Turkey, he was never less than 1s/km behind the stage winner in Turkey or Monte Carlo, but further - 1,27s/km being the closest difference in RMC and 1,08s/km in Turkey.

He is driving to build he's career further. He turns 29 years old in December. How much time he has to build that experience and condifence in a World Rally Car? The steps he have taken or at least planned to take this season, should've happened 3-4 years ago already.

In Monte he was once faster than Suninen.
In Sweden he had throttle issues on Friday morning. In the afternoon he was a couple of times faster than other works WRC drivers, usually because they had issues (Neuville missing aero, Meeke stalling, Evans spinning). After that he was constantly the slowest works WRC. On Saturday he was also twice slower than Grönholm but once faster than Meeke.

[meh]

But what is the point for all this debate? Where you imagine to reach with that? :)

It's like religious fight - you can fight however much, all parties still believe their own stuff.

Let his stage times from GB speak.

[AnttiL]

But what is the point for all this debate? Where you imagine to reach with that? :)

Why do we have this message board? :rolleyes:

[Rally Power]

EDIT: Also, I understand that his budget and deal with M-Sport may have meant that he must take it easy in order not to crash the car. But at the same time you can wonder why he's paying for a drive at all if he's not allowed to show any pace?

Spot on. No one should blame Tidemand for trying, but running on a limited budget is probably the main reason for such a slow pace; his past drives in WRC cars and R5 domination have shown he’s able to do better. Fingers crossed on his GB outing.

[denkimi]

If you can't afford to break it, you shouldn't drive it.

I doubt its lack of budget that limits his speed. If that was the case it would have been better to drive only 2 rally's flatout, instead of 3 without being able to push.

[Rallyper]

If you can't afford to break it, you shouldn't drive it.

I doubt its lack of budget that limits his speed. If that was the case it would have been better to drive only 2 rally's flatout, instead of 3 without being able to push.

Well, easy to say from your computer. Sooo much more ingredients in his efforts.

[doubled1978]

Personally I just want to see him show some speed, have another guy that can fight for stage wins etc..
Obviously I’m not privy to what his budget is, and what his plan beyond Wales is, but at the moment I don’t really see what he is achieving with his outings so far.

[Katvala]

Speed certainly hasn't been there. Let's see in Wales

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Munkvy]

Is it possible that the current generation of cars are harder to drive competitively? The aero and diff complexity would need decent testing past the limits to get used to, and if you don't have the benefit of being able to afford a heap of testing like Greensmith, well I can only imagine he is having to learn how to drive on event, which will certainly hurt performance.

I was however expecting more from him, especially on Sunday of any WRC event, as lets face it the WRC is a joke on Sunday with only 1 competitive stage, so perfect time for him to make at least 1 good stage time.

[Hartusvuori]

Is it possible that the current generation of cars are harder to drive competitively? The aero and diff complexity would need decent testing past the limits to get used to, and if you don't have the benefit of being able to afford a heap of testing like Greensmith, well I can only imagine he is having to learn how to drive on event, which will certainly hurt performance.

Well, Suninen's and Lappi's early success in 2017 prove otherwise.

[Munkvy]

Well, Suninen's and Lappi's early success in 2017 prove otherwise.

Who both brought budget for proper programmes...

[AnttiL]

Who both brought budget for proper programmes...

Wait...Lappi was a factory driver for Toyota. Suninen had one testing day before each event, and his Finland test was compromised because Ogier crashed the test car, so he had to use the same car as he was using for the rally.

I still think driving the new cars must be a bigger jump from R5's because the difference in speed is greater (R5's are almost as fast as old WRC's in certain conditions) and the proper usage of aero needs experience.

[Rally Power]

I still think driving the new cars must be a bigger jump from R5's because the difference in speed is greater (R5's are almost as fast as old WRC's in certain conditions) and the proper usage of aero needs experience.

Yep and central diff use can also be a challenge but all that makes even harder to get how Greensmith, a less experienced driver previously beaten by Tidemand, seems to be more at ease on the WRC car than him.

[AnttiL]

Greensmith was also most of the time the slowest WRC but managed to beat a couple of drivers in Portugal here and there, Suninen once in Finland, Lappi a few times in Deutschland in addition to a great 5th place on SS7. But then again, Greensmith had an off in all three rallies (not even counting the Fafe crash where the steering broke, he already crashed on Saturday)

[Rallyper]

Yep and central diff use can also be a challenge but all that makes even harder to get how Greensmith, a less experienced driver previously beaten by Tidemand, seems to be more at ease on the WRC car than him.

Haven´t got a clue, but wasn´t Greensmith testing a whole lot at MSport for several occasions? To compare with Tidemands almost none before MC and RS and one day before Turkey.

[denkimi]

10 years ago the jump was from fwd cars to wrc cars. 15 years ago, the jump was even from fwd cars to wrc cars with 3 active differentials and even active suspension.

The current 4x4 turbo r5 cars must be probably the easiest cars in a very long time to step up to wrc cars.

It doesn't matter which car you give the real talented drivers, they will learn very quickly to go fast with even a garbage bin on 3 wheels.

[Mirek]

There is no rule saying that a driver A, who is normally faster than driver B in a car of class X, will stay faster if both move in class Y. It has happened in the past that some seemingly great talents didn't manage to step up or vice versa. Even experienced champions were sometimes unable to adapt to new machinery.

[Rallyper]

Hanninen. Maybe mentioned in this thread earlier.

However did fast times on certain stages.

[Mirek]

Hanninen. Maybe mentioned in this thread earlier.

However did fast times on certain stages.

Not the best example for two reasons.

The first is that as a matter of fact Juho was reasonably faster with the WRC than Tidemand or Greensmith compared to his competitors in WRC cars. But that brings the second point - he was much more experienced (especially compared to Greensmith because Tidemand is hardly a rookie). Together with his age it meant that results were expected from him immediately. Nobody signs a +/-35 years old guy to give him two years to learn...

[Rallyper]

Not the best example for two reasons.

The first is that as a matter of fact Juho was reasonably faster with the WRC than Tidemand or Greensmith compared to his competitors in WRC cars. But that brings the second point - he was much more experienced (especially compared to Greensmith because Tidemand is hardly a rookie). Together with his age it meant that results were expected from him immediately. Nobody signs a +/-35 years old guy to give him two years to learn...

It all comes down in the end, how much time you have spent behind the wheel. Tests, rallies... Hundred of km´s or almost zero. Tidemand belongs to the latter ones.

That, I can tell you is fundamental for being fast at once. Let´s see what Wales will bring. I have not so big hopes, unfortenately.

[Mirek]

I agree with You.

[AnttiL]

10 years ago the jump was from fwd cars to wrc cars. 15 years ago, the jump was even from fwd cars to wrc cars with 3 active differentials and even active suspension.

Group N was still a thing back then, as well as private WRC cars.

[leighton323]

Pontus debut performance and the speed he showed at Rally Sweden 2013 in a WRC car was far more impressive than a mediocre outing at Rally Sweden 2019 - 6 years of difference

I think for Pontus it is a confidence issue adapting to the new WRC spec car... but IMHO there is a long list of drivers above him in the peaking order who deserve a manufacturer seat more

[Rallyper]

Pontus debut performance and the speed he showed at Rally Sweden 2013 in a WRC car was far more impressive than a mediocre outing at Rally Sweden 2019 - 6 years of difference

I think for Pontus it is a confidence issue adapting to the new WRC spec car... but IMHO there is a long list of drivers above him in the peaking order who deserve a manufacturer seat more

Fast drivers yes, in WRC2. Not even WRC2 champions. So unwritten chapters. Might as well end up in confidence issues them as well...

Agree PT has that "problem" together with all other factors well described here on this topic.

[Andre Oliveira]

What about WRC2 campaign + WRC Fiesta at non Gus events?

[Rallyper]

What about WRC2 campaign + WRC Fiesta at non Gus events?

One should hope for PT together with Adrien Formeaux in Fiesta Evo in MSort WRC2. Just my speculation.

We´d know next week.

[AnttiL]

The Swede said his decision to step back to WRC 2 was driven by the WRC’s environmentally-friendly hybrid future, which will begin in 2022.

“If you look at the rally sport now, there are very exciting things coming in 2022, and it is important to stay in the sport and perform well. Going back and driving an R5 car offers the opportunity to drive more and to challenge for wins. That’s why we choose R5 in 2020,” he explained.

Tidemand, who will be co-driven by Patrik Barth, admitted 2019 was a tough year.

“We have been competing in WRC 2 for four-and-a-half seasons and felt that in 2019 it was time to take a step up and try WRC.

“So we did four rallies together with M-Sport Ford, but it was not easy to get into today's cars and be able to push them to the max with their advanced aerodynamics. It takes a lot more time behind the wheel of those cars,” he said.

Interesting comment at the end.

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/2020/january-2020/tidemand-sweden/page/6938--51-51-.html

[Mirek]

Interesting comment at the end.

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/2020/january-2020/tidemand-sweden/page/6938--51-51-.html

I can understand that. It's not very natural when the grip is growing with the speed you drive but in the same time it depends also on the angle between the airflow and the wings, i.e. if you turn and how you turn at high speeds.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thats right.

As he also jumped into a WRCar for a few events, people should give Gus Greensmith some understanding. And credit for his teammate-matching pace at times.

The latest cars are nothing like his R5 and not even the previous-gen WRCars. The step-up is huge and Gus handled it pretty impressively.

[Rallyper]

Wasn´t that understandable at the time last year? At least to me. However most of you guys thought Tidemand should be comparable to top five guys from the beginning.

And now you understand it all? Is it because of GG not doing well either?

[Franky]

Didn't Greensmith do more testing before his first outing?

[RS]

I am pleased to see Pontus back but I’m not sure I buy his reasoning about why he struggled. Wasn’t Lappi pretty quick straight away when he stepped up, even winning after a few events? Ok, I expect he had a lot more testing but the difference was night and day.

[AnttiL]

I am pleased to see Pontus back but I’m not sure I buy his reasoning about why he struggled. Wasn’t Lappi pretty quick straight away when he stepped up, even winning after a few events? Ok, I expect he had a lot more testing but the difference was night and day.

In theory Lappi could have tested a lot in Jyväskylä since Toyota had unlimited testing on a vast area of roads, but I've understood he didn't do that much of testing during the early season he was off the car.

And then we have Suninen who won his fifth stage in a WRC car, and was close to finishing the rally at 4th, and close to finishing the next rally at 2nd. Most likely he had only one limited day of testing for each event.

I expected Tidemand to do well since he was so equal with these guys in 2016.

As for Greensmith, he may have also done some extra testing in Greystoke, but other than that usually test days are pretty publicly covered. He had one test already in late 2018 or something, and posted a video of it.

[dupanton]

Imo, speed from the first meters with a new car, says a lot about the talent level of that driver...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think some can drive an R5 too much, for too long, and it makes it harder to adapt to a current WRC. They are such a different beast needing a very different driving-style.

[AnttiL]

I think some can drive an R5 too much, for too long, and it makes it harder to adapt to a current WRC. They are such a different beast needing a very different driving-style.

Gus explained this in the Absolute Rally podcast last year, saying it's actually easier to drive WRC but you just need to have a lot of confidence to use the power and aero.

[Mirek]

I think that this is individual. Someone can adapt fast, someone needs more time, someone can't adapt ever. It's like that with everything not only with driving WRC.

[doubled1978]

Probably helps with a decent budget behind you as well if you are paying for the carbon fibre you knock off like Gus did quite a lot last year..

Exactly, Lappi didn’t have this problem but Sunninen did. I would say that Sunninen showed speed straight away, but he was a bit ragged in those couple of events, it paid off tho as he ended up with a drive.

[denkimi]

Probably helps with a decent budget behind you as well if you are paying for the carbon fibre you knock off like Gus did quite a lot last year..
This.
If you can't afford to bin it, you can't have the confidence to go fast.

[Rallyper]

This.
If you can't afford to bin it, you can't have the confidence to go fast.

Like I also tried to explain one year ago.

Btw. Suninen was instantly fast, yes, but has he progressed much after that?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pontus has spent the last 5 years in R5 cars. Dont most top driver's step-up to to WRC sooner if they have the chance/budget ?

Adapting must be easier if your driving-style hasnt become really ingrained in one kind of car.

[RS]

This.
If you can't afford to bin it, you can't have the confidence to go fast.

If you can't afford to bin it, then should you be driving? I think we can all understand why he'd want to try, on the other hand last year Pontus probably damaged his reputation somewhat.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/1387445366027653122


Words can’t even describe how much I’ve missed being behind the wheel of a rally car... So it makes me extra happy to finally be able to say that I will have news to share with you really soon! Stayed tuned and keep an eye on my social media channels!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0EyLwYXsAIOXhP?format=jpg&name=small

Is the image of the Fiesta a coincidence or chosen on purpose?