Schumi and Ogier

[Revman]

Alright.....as noted first year in WRC for me as Toyota entered, so bear with me as I reference WRC drivers to F1. I asked on this Forum at one time if my perception that Jari-Matti had similar characteristics as Jean Alesi. The response was affirmative. So, I have been watching this Seb Ogier character all year, and I am wondering....Is he the Schumi of WRC? Why or why not?

[steve.mandzij]

How was Jean Alesi?

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[Revman]

How was Alesi like Jari-Matti? I think in the sense that they are both emotional, drive with their hearts, sometimes are their own worst enemies....but at the end of the day, very talented. Maybe some untapped potential in both..... For me, both are drivers I can buy into...I think when they take the wheel, everything else go away--the fame, etc.--it just becomes about the driving.

[seb_sh]

IMO Loeb is probably a better comparison to Schumacher in regards to the combination of talent and professionalism but also the impact on their respective championships. Ogier is like a copy of Loeb with probably a weaker psyche, possibly fundamentally, possibly due his constant comparison of himself to Loeb and his records (I assume).

[AnttiL]

if Ogier is Schumi, then Neuville is...Villeneuve? :D

[N.O.T]

why comparing women with real men ?

[sonnybobiche]

I would say the closest analog of JML would probably be Hakkinen (no surprise there). And Ogier is similar to Prost in many ways, although his personality seems to have changed a lot since he became a father. Much, much nicer guy. Then again Prost was never really as evil as people made him out to be. This is fun.

[Revman]

why comparing women with real men ?

Honestly, N.O.T., I enjoy your posts. Good stuff! LOL

[Revman]

I would say the closest analog of JML would probably be Hakkinen (no surprise there). And Ogier is similar to Prost in many ways, although his personality seems to have changed a lot since he became a father. Much, much nicer guy. Then again Prost was never really as evil as people made him out to be. This is fun.

Extremely interesting.....but I see some emotion from JML that I really didn't see from Mika. Damn, he could drive though!

[Revman]

IMO Loeb is probably a better comparison to Schumacher in regards to the combination of talent and professionalism but also the impact on their respective championships. Ogier is like a copy of Loeb with probably a weaker psyche, possibly fundamentally, possibly due his constant comparison of himself to Loeb and his records (I assume).


Thank you. Fabulous insight. Makes sense.

[Rally Power]

Schumi what? Jean who? Come on guys, whit so many brilliant Rally aces from the past to compare there’s no need to mention F1 drivers! Lots of info of every WRC event winner at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Rally_Championship_records

Btw, even if each driver circumstances are unique and difficult to compare, Ogier reminds me the great Walter Rohrl. Here’s a nice tribute to the Master: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ollt2LY0wsU

[NickRally]

Schumi what? Jean who? Come on guys, whit so many brilliant Rally aces from the past to compare there’s no need to mention F1 drivers! Lots of info of every WRC event winner at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Rally_Championship_records

Btw, even if each driver circumstances are unique and difficult to compare, Ogier reminds me the great Walter Rohrl. Here’s a nice tribute to the Master: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ollt2LY0wsU

You are correct, plenty of past rally drivers that we can compare to, but it is just interesting to compare to drivers from other motorsport disciplines too, or even to sportsmen from other sports :)

[jparker]

We had two drivers (are they only two?), Kubica and Raikkonen who did the oposite, compare motorsports. Sadly both with little success.

[Rally Power]

You are correct, plenty of past rally drivers that we can compare to, but it is just interesting to compare to drivers from other motorsport disciplines too, or even to sportsmen from other sports :)

Fair point. Tbh, my goal was to remember young guys and newcomers like Revman, that WRC has a fantastic, and sometimes not fully appreciated, heritage.

[GigiGalliNo1]

What is this other sport you guys are talking about? Why compare circle racing to a real sport?

[Revman]

You are correct, plenty of past rally drivers that we can compare to, but it is just interesting to compare to drivers from other motorsport disciplines too, or even to sportsmen from other sports :)

I agree. I am new to WRC, and I was just trying to draw from my past experience with F1 in terms of driver personalities. As my understanding of WRC deepens, I will leave the sins of my past behind! LOL

[NickRally]

We had two drivers (are they only two?), Kubica and Raikkonen who did the oposite, compare motorsports. Sadly both with little success.

Alain Prost drove Renault 5 Turbo in Rally Du Var in 1982, but it was the same story if I am not wrong, blindingly quick, but did not finish.
Ayrton Senna and Jean Alesi have both driven rally cars and both loved the experience. Senna as a courtesy test in the UK in the early 80's, while Alesi as a zero car, I think, on a rally in the early 90's, don't remember the rally.

[BigWorm]

We had two drivers (are they only two?), Kubica and Raikkonen who did the oposite, compare motorsports. Sadly both with little success.

Carlos Reutemann. Two rallies entered, two podiums.

[NickRally]

Yeah; I forgot about Carlos.
Actually going further back in time, before disciplines became too specialised, we also have multitalented drivers like Vic Elford.
And one more thought before I stop high jacking this thread - before Henri Toivonen started making his mark in rallying, he was a circuit racer reaching Formula 3 and switching to rallying on the insistance of his family.

[Sub_Skoda]

IMO Loeb is probably a better comparison to Schumacher in regards to the combination of talent and professionalism but also the impact on their respective championships. Ogier is like a copy of Loeb with probably a weaker psyche, possibly fundamentally, possibly due his constant comparison of himself to Loeb and his records (I assume).


+1

[Rally Power]

Actually going further back in time, before disciplines became too specialised, we also have multitalented drivers like Vic Elford.


Yep, Elford is one of the most complete motorsport drivers ever. Besides winning ERC (the most important rally series at the end of the 60's), he also won several endurance courses and got into F1. Two nice videos about him (the second is an interview telling how he managed to persuade Porsche to get the 911 into rally).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTJWewNACsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdFWht1UD08

Btw, several French rallymen (Andruet, Frequelin, Ragnotti, Beguin, etc) also had illustrious racing experiences, long before those of Sarrazin and Loeb.

[itix]

why comparing women with real men ?

It so wouldn't surprise me the least if you were gay and in love with Yiannopoulos...

Edit; and before someone throws a kneejerk answer, it is in no way meant as offensive to anyone gay what so ever. Quite the opposite.

[AndyRAC]

Yeah; I forgot about Carlos.
Actually going further back in time, before disciplines became too specialised, we also have multitalented drivers like Vic Elford.
And one more thought before I stop high jacking this thread - before Henri Toivonen started making his mark in rallying, he was a circuit racer reaching Formula 3 and switching to rallying on the insistence of his family.

Quick Vic - in 1968 won the Monte & Sebring 12 Hours for Porsche within a week of each other; that's insane. I doubt any driver does both ( in fact, no driver does both anymore.)
Of current drivers, Romain Dumas drives almost anything with 4 wheels and an engine; Dakar, Pikes Peak, rallying, as well as his usual WEC, N24 efforts.

[N.O.T]

It so wouldn't surprise me the least if you were gay and in love with Yiannopoulos...

Edit; and before someone throws a kneejerk answer, it is in no way meant as offensive to anyone gay what so ever. Quite the opposite.

typical politically correct worthless scared dog...

[Rally Power]

Of current drivers, Romain Dumas drives almost anything with 4 wheels and an engine; Dakar, Pikes Peak, rallying, as well as his usual WEC, N24 efforts.

Yep, Dumas is a great example of how it’s still possible to be a diversified driver in current days. Btw, Sweden or Finn members could help remembering the names of rally drivers from the 70’s and 80’s that also competed at Rallycross series, a long time before Solberg or Loeb.

[focus206]

Yep, Dumas is a great example of how it’s still possible to be a diversified driver in current days. Btw, Sweden or Finn members could help remembering the names of rally drivers from the 70’s and 80’s that also competed at Rallycross series, a long time before Solberg or Loeb.

John Taylor from Scotland, the first European Rallycross Champion, was also pretty active in rallying. Saab works drivers Blomqvist and Eklund competed in that championship as well. I can also think of Norwegian Per Engseth.

[A FONDO]

I don't think Ogier will ever reach MSC's level of arrogance, to park his car in the middle of a tight corner in Monaco during qualy or to push an opponent into a concrete wall at about 300 kph.

[Rally Power]

John Taylor from Scotland, the first European Rallycross Champion, was also pretty active in rallying. Saab works drivers Blomqvist and Eklund competed in that championship as well. I can also think of Norwegian Per Engseth.

QI. Wasn’t aware of Taylor RX past and didn’t had a clue about who Engseth was. Thanks mate.

[noel157]

Some other circuit drivers who tried rallying: The late great Tom Pryce (Stratos on the RAC), Derek Bell, Raikkonen and Kubica of course, Robby Gordon (although more Baja/dakar), Hakkinen, Sarrazin and the best driver of all time and the greatest all rounder - Jim Clark, although did very little rallying, Scottish once I think..

PS- never knew J Taylor was Scottish, met him once a very long time ago, always assumed he was English but think he lived mostly in England.

[AnttiL]

In addition to Kimi Räikkönen and Mika Häkkinen, also Keke Rosberg, Mika Salo and JJ Lehto have done some rallying.

EDIT: Häkkinen, Keke and JJ have driven only Arctic Rally, but Salo did also some gravel events.

[focus206]

Stirling Moss did some international rallies in the 50's. Also Erik Comas, who is competing in the European Historic Rally Championship this year.

[Norm75]

And Vale, he's done a few rallies and also looked like he was going to F1 for a while too. Also, not bad on a bike.

[jparker]

I think from all F1 names mentioned here, only Raikkonen and Kubica had full WRC program. Based on stages won, Kubica must be the most successful F1 driver in WRC. Based on scored points, I don't know, but probably Kubica again.

[focus206]

I think from all F1 names mentioned here, only Raikkonen and Kubica had full WRC program. Based on stages won, Kubica must be the most successful F1 driver in WRC. Based on scored points, I don't know, but probably Kubica again.

Based on stats alone, Raikkonen is more successful than Kubica in the WRC category. Twice 10th place in the final classification, while Kubica got 13th (when he won WRC 2 with DS3 RRC), 12th and 16th. Points scored by Raikkonen: 59 in two seasons; points scored by Kubica: 43 in three seasons (one with RRC). At least Kubica has one WRC 2 championship.

All these stats by ewrc-results ;)

[jparker]

Based on stats alone, Raikkonen is more successful than Kubica in the WRC category. Twice 10th place in the final classification, while Kubica got 13th (when he won WRC 2 with DS3 RRC), 12th and 16th. Points scored by Raikkonen: 59 in two seasons; points scored by Kubica: 43 in three seasons (one with RRC). At least Kubica has one WRC 2 championship.

All these stats by ewrc-results ;)

Stats have spoken :)
EDIT: Kubica has 14 stages won vs. only 1 for Raikkonen.

[Coach 2]

Some other circuit drivers who tried rallying: The late great Tom Pryce (Stratos on the RAC), Derek Bell, Raikkonen and Kubica of course, Robby Gordon (although more Baja/dakar), Hakkinen, Sarrazin and the best driver of all time and the greatest all rounder - Jim Clark, although did very little rallying, Scottish once I think..

PS- never knew J Taylor was Scottish, met him once a very long time ago, always assumed he was English but think he lived mostly in England.

Robby Gordon visited Engseth in Norway for a winter and drove the 4WD Mazda. Not sure, but I think he drove a rally in Norway with this Mazda.
In any case, he was very impressed with how fast one could drive with only 1600 ccm.

[Rally Power]

And Vale, he's done a few rallies and also looked like he was going to F1 for a while too. Also, not bad on a bike.

More a four wheel fan; it took me a while to figure who Vale was…yep, not bad on a bike at all!

Btw, Comas was already mentioned; here’s a nice film about his passion for the Stratos: https://youtu.be/BEhkB-GuCIY

[OldF]

Heikki Kovalainen https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/90555-heikki-kovalainen/ Artic rally once and 4 rallies in Japan.

Leo Kinnunen https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/41849-leo-kinnunen/ One Monte and one RAC. The rest (67) are rallies in Finland.

[janvanvurpa]

Alright.....as noted first year in WRC for me as Toyota entered, so bear with me as I reference WRC drivers to F1. I asked on this Forum at one time if my perception that Jari-Matti had similar characteristics as Jean Alesi. The response was affirmative. So, I have been watching this Seb Ogier character all year, and I am wondering....Is he the Schumi of WRC? Why or why not?

What's the "F1"? back in the 90s there was a subclass of Group A called "F2" for while and it was pretty amazing, but it faded..
What is this "F1" you refer to?

[Norm75]

What's the "F1"? back in the 90s there was a subclass of Group A called "F2" for while and it was pretty amazing, but it faded..
What is this "F1" you refer to?
I think it's some kind of weird race series where cars are joined together with tow ropes in a long line and go round and round and round and rou . . . . . Z z z z z z z

[janvanvurpa]

I think it's some kind of weird race series where cars are joined together with tow ropes in a long line and go round and round and round and rou . . . . . Z z z z z z z

Unbelievable!

Why what sort of weird person who want to do that? and what sort of even weirder person would want to WATCH that?

I bet they don't even get sideways...
More made-for-TV-reality show FAKE RACING!

[abxyz]

Speaking of Formula 1, here's some footage from his test : https://www.instagram.com/p/BWr3n_6hTov/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kOepH9jAro