WRC Calendar 2018

[Antreas]

Calendary 2018

[Andre Oliveira]

January 22-28th - > Rallye Monte-Carlo
February 15-18th -> Rally Sweden

[Simmi]

January 22-28th - > Rallye Monte-Carlo
February 15-18th -> Rally Sweden

Am I right in thinking these dates are still to be ratified by the FIA? But they've been put forward by the organisers so more than likely they will be correct. I'm ready for another trip to Sweden next year.

[Andre Oliveira]

In ACM web site have dates to 2019 and 2020: http://acm.mc/en/automobile-club-de-monaco/calendrier-des-epreuves/

87th Rallye Monte-Carlo 2019 [January 21-27th]
88th Rallye Monte-Carlo 2020 [January 20-26th]

Dates subject to change by decision of the FIA.

[Andre Oliveira]

My guess of calendar:

Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Tour de Corse
Argentina
Portugal
Sardegna
Croatia
Finland
Deutschland
Catalunya
New Zealand
Wales

[Duvel]

My guess of calendar:

Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Tour de Corse
Argentina
Portugal
Sardegna
Croatia
Finland
Deutschland
Catalunya
New Zealand
Wales

Croatia would be nice in the calendar, would also like to see Sardenga in Oktober like it was some years ago.

Australia and New zealand should alternate, maybe good solution for Poland and Croatia to?

Wales and Ireland would also be nice that way.

[Eli]

My guess of calendar:

Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Tour de Corse
Argentina
Portugal
Sardegna
Croatia
Finland
Deutschland
Catalunya
New Zealand
Wales

My Guess:
26-28.1.18 86ème Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo
16-18.2.18 66th Rally Sweden
9-11.3.18 32º Rally Guanajuato México
30.3-1.4.18 52º Vodafone Rally de Portugal
20-22.4.18 61ème Tour de Corse- Rallye de France
4-6.5.18 15º Rally Italia Sardegna
18-20.5.18 Croatia Rally
8-10.6.18 38º Rally Argentina
2-5.8.18 68th Neste Rally Finland
17-19.8.18 36. ADAC Rallye Deutschland
31.8-2.9.18 43rd Rally New-Zealand
14-16.9.18 27th Kennards Hire Rally Australia
4-7.10.18 54º Rally RACC Catalunya- Costa Daurada
2-4.11.18 74th Dayinsure Wales Rally GB

That is if they decide to leave Poland out & Croatia replace it & add NZ (as they said they wanted 14 rallies) although I honestly don't see how it adds up with the fact they want to keep the costs down and the fact that Toyota are pushing for only 10 rounds.

[er88]

If Poland goes NZ comes in. Would love another tarmac event to come in as well, as the championship needs a more even split. Spain should be full tarmac for that reason too (despite the fact the gravel + tarmac event is good for the fans).

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[Munkvy]

Australia and New zealand should alternate, maybe good solution for Poland and Croatia to?


And that worked out so well last time...

[Ifox95]

My guess of calendar:

Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Tour de Corse
Argentina
Portugal
Sardegna
Croatia
Finland
Deutschland
Catalunya
New Zealand
Wales

It is clear that the CIRCUIT OF IRELAND MUST BE ON THE WRC CALENDAR from next year onwards!!!! 🇮🇪🇮🇪🚗💨💨

[racerx1979]

I thought Australia was locked in until 2018?

[pantealex]

Has Croatia had candidate event ?

Somehow I could not see Croatia in WRC18.

[Simmi]

It is clear that the CIRCUIT OF IRELAND MUST BE ON THE WRC CALENDAR from next year onwards!!!! 🇮🇪🇮🇪🚗💨💨

They can't even hold down an ERC round unfortunately. All those stories linking it with WRC can't have dug too deep into the financials.

[rallyfiend]

Has Croatia had candidate event ?

Somehow I could not see Croatia in WRC18.

They have their ERT event in September. I guess that's the plan for it.

[rhm]

They can't even hold down an ERC round unfortunately. All those stories linking it with WRC can't have dug too deep into the financials.

Indeed, not enough money in Ireland to fund it. They need a main sponsor from outside of Ireland.

[Eli]

Indeed, not enough money in Ireland to fund it. They need a main sponsor from outside of Ireland.
How much money is needed to fund a WRC event?

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[EstWRC]

Cant find the link now but i remember after the rumors Ciesla very clearly ruled Croatia out saying they need rounds outside europe, im sure NZ will take polands slot.

[Eli]

Cant find the link now but i remember after the rumors Ciesla very clearly ruled Croatia out saying they need rounds outside europe, im sure NZ will take polands slot.
Really hope you are right, it's a shame we haven't seen it in the WRC since 2012.

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[Archie Gillaine]

How much money is needed to fund a WRC event?

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Too much, probably...

[AnttiL]

Cant find the link now but i remember after the rumors Ciesla very clearly ruled Croatia out saying they need rounds outside europe, im sure NZ will take polands slot.

I think the original idea was to add one event in place of China and the contenders were Croatia and NZ, but now that Poland is going away, they could both get in.

[Mirek]

Has Croatia had candidate event ?

Somehow I could not see Croatia in WRC18.

I think not. They held several times an ERC event though. Anyway I don't think that it's good idea to move to a country with very weak local rally scene.

[EstWRC]

I think the original idea was to add one event in place of China and the contenders were Croatia and NZ, but now that Poland is going away, they could both get in.

Yeah, we have a long gap between Germany and Spain this year, 1.5 months basically and if they take out Poland then we will have another 1.5 month gap between sardinia and Finland. But As I understand nz would be in September so If they do add it to September then I guess it is actually ok to have a longer summer break between Sardinia and Finland.

[dupanton]

We in Belgium have a great rally the weekend before Ypres, very popular locally, we have a (vice) World Champion, the organisers are the bosses of Hyundai... Just dreaming, but would be very nice :)

[tommeke_B]

We in Belgium have a great rally the weekend before Ypres, very popular locally, we have a (vice) World Champion, the organisers are the bosses of Hyundai... Just dreaming, but would be very nice :)

I think in terms of budget, organizing a WRC event would cost maybe 3 to 4x as much as organizing the event they're having now. No way Ypres could be in WRC in the first couple of years, without some huge sponsor. Also geographically I don't think Belgium is an ideal place, as it's too close to Germany, Wales, France etc.

[dupanton]

I know, like I said, just dreaming ;)

[AnttiL]

Germany, Wales, France etc.

What about Corsica, Monte Carlo and Sardegna (before that San Remo)? ;)

[sindroms]

Ok, call me what you want but still... I've got a strange feeling, that something is going on here in Latvia. Can't tell nothing more because there is nothing to tell...just a very few indications that there is an idea at least. Even then I don't think it's related to 2018.

[Lead]

Ok, call me what you want but still... I've got a strange feeling, that something is going on here in Latvia. Can't tell nothing more because there is nothing to tell...just a very few indications that there is an idea at least. Even then I don't think it's related to 2018.

More likely its Estonia (Otepaa). They dropped ERC this year, and Aava have said earlier that they are looking for bigger targets in organization level. And now they have Tanak on top level. And you cant forget Martin also.

[steve.mandzij]

I think the original idea was to add one event in place of China and the contenders were Croatia and NZ, but now that Poland is going away, they could both get in.
Is China not coming back? I was hoping they'd come back in 2018.

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[Eli]

Is China not coming back? I was hoping they'd come back in 2018.

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If I remember correctly, they said not before 2019.

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[steve.mandzij]

:(

What we really need now is Rally Japan :D

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[racerx1979]

Whatever happened to Rally Hokkaido? They ran it for a few years then it was off the calendar.

[Mirek]

What we really need now is Rally Japan :D

To show us how to make save rally for spectators - as ad absurdum counter part of Poland :D

[Tauri_J]

I really hope they give Poland another chance

one of the best rallies in calender...just sort out the safety issues

[Mariusz]

To show us how to make save rally for spectators - as ad absurdum counter part of Poland :D
Actually, NZ would be probably also pretty safe; no spectators, no issues ;)

[PLuto]

I really hope they give Poland another chance

one of the best rallies in calender...just sort out the safety issues

"one of the best rallies in calendar" is a question ; I hear positive and negative opinions from spectators, but from the teams and FIA I hear mostly negative opinions.. And I think that they gave Poland another chance - this year. And we can see the result...

[Antreas]

I Want Cyprus Rally to return in the calendar of WRC but I don't think so,it is very difficult

[Barreis]

I think not. They held several times an ERC event though. Anyway I don't think that it's good idea to move to a country with very weak local rally scene.

maybe we have weak local rally scene but we have great tarmac stages

[Andre Oliveira]

Acropolis!

[AL14]

I really hope they give Poland another chance

one of the best rallies in calender...just sort out the safety issues

They gave another chance already twice in 2016 and 2017. They have wasted them both badly.
Rally is indeed one of the best but organizers and spectators are not able to sort it out.

[AL14]

I think a round in the baltics would be the best solution.
Rally culture is high, you already have a good fan base, stages characteristics are not different from Poland, some top drivers are from there.

[Grant_RSA]

We need a round in Africa, sadly its not going to happened, we can all dream.

[JUF]

When everybody criticizes Poland what about Mexico and Argentina? Correct me if I'm wrong, I have never been there, but don't they have pretty similar issues with spectator safety? And (almost) no one talks about that, as these rounds have to stay to make the World Championship a World Championship...

[Lead]

I think a round in the baltics would be the best solution.
Rally culture is high, you already have a good fan base, stages characteristics are not different from Poland, some top drivers are from there.

The main problem is the quality of the roads (if there happens to be rain the roads are done) same like Lithuania in 2014 and also accommodation in the specific region.

[Eli]

When everybody criticizes Poland what about Mexico and Argentina? Correct me if I'm wrong, I have never been there, but don't they have pretty similar issues with spectator safety? And (almost) no one talks about that, as these rounds have to stay to make the World Championship a World Championship...

From what I heard in this forum, they said they have sorted the Rally in Argentina, as for Mexico...apart from the high altitude (which you also get some of it in Argentina)...I see what you mean, but that's why people here are talking about NZ, Africa & Japan, which are in the world & not Europe.

[tomhlord]

When everybody criticizes Poland what about Mexico and Argentina? Correct me if I'm wrong, I have never been there, but don't they have pretty similar issues with spectator safety? And (almost) no one talks about that, as these rounds have to stay to make the World Championship a World Championship...

Argentina has shown signs of improvement and willingness to improve safety.

[steve.mandzij]

Argentina has shown signs of improvement and willingness to improve safety.
Mhm, I was there. While it's not perfect, the majority of spectators respect the marshals and move back if asked.

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[Tauri_J]

The main problem is the quality of the roads (if there happens to be rain the roads are done) same like Lithuania in 2014 and also accommodation in the specific region.

Rain would not be the problem, at least in estonia

Our gravel roads are in much better quality than in Poland

[KKS]

Poland is unique rally. South-Europe rally is too rough and twisty, Germany and France (both versions) are tarmac. And fast flying gravel roads are gone? It represent all eastern Europe road types and it should be some rally at this region. Or some Baltic (Saarema or so) or Poland in WRC.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Mexico has no spectator issue. They years I have been there the Federal Police are in Full Force but not to the strict sorry retarded way Polish Marshals or Police are.

Federal Police in Mexico are taken seriously by spectators and media and they understand the limits and locations on the stages.

[racerx1979]

Went to Mexico when it was first ran as a WRC event. We could do whatever we wanted at that time. Luckily they had a few spectators at that time. I'm sure it's changed.

[Mirek]

When everybody criticizes Poland what about Mexico and Argentina?

The safety question was already debated but another point is that while Mexico and Argentina are basically irreplaceable Poland is not. WRC shall not leave another continent especially when the events are hugely popular but there are so many European rounds that those must be really good to justify their place in the calendar. One less or replaced by another European event out of plenty options - who really cares?

[Mintexmemory]

Taking Mirek's point about potential European rounds being really good if they are to be on the calender is something I believe applies world-wide. NZ and Acropolis should be the first candidates for any gap in the calender. The pinnacle events of the sport should only be held where the experience, tradition and positive enhancement of the WRC can be delivered. For this reason I was always against China and The Middle Eastern candidates, USA too. Cyprus, Barum and Ypres could make a useful addition as a new type of 2 day WRC round - all would be preferable to Poland

[sonnybobiche]

If we're honest about which rallies are eminently replaceable, I think it would have to be:

Sardinia (which, rumor is, will be replaced next year with an event on the Italian mainland because the promoter hates island rallies. I like island rallies. I'd love to see rally Azores in this slot. If ERC can make it work, and exceptionally well I might add, why can't WRC?)

Poland (which, rumor is, will be replaced next year for "safety" reasons. It would be great to have the Safari back in this slot. The REAL Safari rally, i.e. open roads, 1000km or more of competitive stages, helicopters, all that great stuff.)

Germany (as much as I like all the narrow tarmac through the vineyards, I would trade this for any tarmac rally, e.g. Ireland)

Spain (if this was all tarmac, I wouldn't trade it, but the first day on gravel is super forgettable IMO. I'd trade for a tarmac event like ypres.)

GB (I know, I know, there has to be a rally GB, because... well... not sure why exactly. But you have to admit this is a shadow of its former self. I'd trade it in a heartbeat for Japan.)

Australia (as far as I'm concerned, this is only on the calendar because it's on another continent and the government throws a load of money at it. But it is very, very forgettable. NZ would be better.)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Any idea of what period of the Croatia might be held? I'd like to do a back to back Sardegna/Italy with Croatia

[PLuto]

Any idea of what period of the Croatia might be held? I'd like to do a back to back Sardegna/Italy with Croatia

I dont think Croatia will be in...

[AnttiL]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129337

This news article states that NZ and Croatia are running for 14th round, both would be run in September. Now that Poland is probably removed from the calendar, they could both get in. So basically that would give WRC a summer break instead of the September being completely rally free.

This is the event we're looking at: https://www.ewrc-results.com/events/646-croatia-rally/

[PLuto]

I dont see any regular point why Croatia should be in WRC...

[AnttiL]

I dont see any regular point why Croatia should be in WRC...


Ciesla said the planned event could go "straight into the top five" rallies for spectator attendance.

"It's true that we are not seeking more European rallies," Ciesla admitted.

"But Croatia ticks so many boxes from the infrastructure to these incredible roads which could make the cars dance.

"We could look at a mixed event with a day on gravel and two days on asphalt and we could even look at something new - some sort of a hillclimb event being included in the itinerary.

"On top of that, the event would be based in an area easily accessible to the teams and an area that has a real affinity for rally fans."

There you go.

[liposh]

Isn´t money regular point for you, Pluto? :D

[PLuto]

Of course I know that it is ONLY about money. Nothing about quality of the event, quality of the organisation, infrastructure...

[Simmi]

Something is a bit strange for me about this Croatia thing. Coming fairly out of the blue to being right there about to get a calendar spot. Certainly no teams are asking for this, and I saw quotes (I think from Penasse) questioning why it was even being considered.

But you had a WRC promoter delegation visiting Croatia. Stories about it on WRC.com. Glowing quotes from Ciesla. What other candidate events are receiving that? It just seems a bit fishy to me. Like there are personal friendships or likely there's a load of cash involved.

Certainly Poland organisation shooting themselves in the foot at just the wrong time opens the door for this event. I certainly don't see how they can both exist.

[SubaruNorway]

I have no idea if these are any of the roads being considered used in Croatia but the scenery looks quite ok
https://www.google.no/search?q=Croatia&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_jveNiv_UAhWBA5oKHazXBfIQ_AUIBigB&biw=1436&bih=780#tbm=isch&q=Croatia+gravel+roads&imgrc=_

[Mirek]

You can find good stages there but there is very weak local rally scene with no local drivers being active on the internaitonal scene. It's also a small country with a small car market and there is no car manufacturer located in Croatia. I don't see any added value for having a WRC round there.

[ik1911]

Maybe this road !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cc_rc/34977840110/in/album-72157682283355963/

[olemann]

Croatia would be a perfect candidate late in the year. I would go for it.

[Rally Power]

Something is a bit strange for me about this Croatia thing. Coming fairly out of the blue to being right there about to get a calendar spot. Certainly no teams are asking for this, and I saw quotes (I think from Penasse) questioning why it was even being considered.

Regrettably the FIA and the WRC promoter are still struggling to choose the series future: to promote a worldwide expansion or keep WRC eurocentered? Both ways have pros and cons, but at same point they must decide which to take, as these constant reports about new events here and there are a clear sign of disorientation.

Beside deciding were to focus the series, they also must question the events layout, as the current two and a half days 9 to 5 routine seems to be exhausted. On that one I hope they can think out of the box, as it’s possible to have the old endurance character back, alongside the sprint cost saving current needs.

One way to do it is to get a handful of iconic events, with larger routes and schedules (a sort of WRC grand slam), and to condensate the others rally’s into a full day marathon leg, with around 250 stage kms and only one service halt. The extra cost of those grand slam events would be compensated by the savings made on the others and it’d be possible to increase the number of rounds without loosing major events identity.

Anyway, what’s important is to hurry up decisions and if they’re clueless about the path to take they can always ask fans what they want, like it was done with the new WRC cars survey a couple of years ago.

[KKS]

If we're honest about which rallies are eminently replaceable, I think it would have to be:




ou ou ou slow down kid.

[[RMC]Pip]

There has been 13 rallies a year since 2010. If I'm correct the majority of WRC teams oppose any kind of expansion, so I don't know how can you add more rallies. IMHO this year's calendar is quite good, Poland is the only one I wouldn't consider a classic. But teams and fans like the event, it adds to the championship, pity for the spectator safety aspect.
Safari, Acropolis and a round in Japan would be a great addition. And of course, NZ.

[AndyRAC]

Regrettably the FIA and the WRC promoter are still struggling to choose the series future: to promote a worldwide expansion or keep WRC eurocentered? Both ways have pros and cons, but at same point they must decide which to take, as these constant reports about new events here and there are a clear sign of disorientation.

Beside deciding were to focus the series, they also must question the events layout, as the current two and a half days 9 to 5 routine seems to be exhausted. On that one I hope they can think out of the box, as it’s possible to have the old endurance character back, alongside the sprint cost saving current needs.

One way to do it is to get a handful of iconic events, with larger routes and schedules (a sort of WRC grand slam), and to condensate the others rally’s into a full day marathon leg, with around 250 stage kms and only one service halt. The extra cost of those grand slam events would be compensated by the savings made on the others and it’d be possible to increase the number of rounds without loosing major events identity.

Anyway, what’s important is to hurry up decisions and if they’re clueless about the path to take they can always ask fans what they want, like it was done with the new WRC cars survey a couple of years ago.

You've raised some good points.

Personally, I'd still say the WRC should make the best of the number of events it has now; its still not big enough to expand into 14+ rounds - as that will just add more cost - and is there value in added events?

As for event formats, I sadly think we're stuck with the current 'generic WRC event'; I've never been a fan of the 'one size fits all' events - and would like to see a bit more variety to events. A mix of 2, 3 and even 4+ day events. Certain events, e;g the Monte should be a long Endurance type event (as should Rally of GB), wheres you could have Corsica over 2 days.

But I just can't see it happening; I'm not sure the will is there - and they'll claim its too expensive. I think we're stuck with the anaemic 2 and a bit day events.

[baffo]

You've raised some good points.


As for event formats, I sadly think we're stuck with the current 'generic WRC event'; I've never been a fan of the 'one size fits all' events - and would like to see a bit more variety to events. A mix of 2, 3 and even 4+ day events. Certain events, e;g the Monte should be a long Endurance type event (as should Rally of GB), wheres you could have Corsica over 2 days.



I agree. Some good format were made in 2011 - 2013. Actually, Day 1 (Thursday) have no sense: shakedown for P1 and P2 is only a media event (they made tests on their own) and i preferred when events opened with two-three special stages (with some night stages), not with super special stages.

[N.O.T]

Croatia has nothing to offer, it will be another Bulgaria...

[Zeakiwi]

Would Cyprus or the Acropolis (with external sponsorship to fund the event) be preferable?

[AnttiL]

Would Cyprus or the Acropolis (with external sponsorship to fund the event) be preferable?

I wouldn't want to see another rough gravel rally, we already have Mexico, Sardegna, Argentina and Portugal for that.

[tc10a]

Would Cyprus or the Acropolis (with external sponsorship to fund the event) be preferable?
Both Acropolis and Cyprus would be preferable. Acropolis is a legend and also Cyprus is a very special event. Completely different to Mexico, Portugal or even Sardegna.

This years ERC Cyprus Rally was held also close to the biggest Tourist resorts of the island with some special stages going directly next to some beaches - stunning scenery for a TV powerstage for example. Michelle Mouton was also there to check the event this year according to some press releases. Maybe behind the curtain there is already something going on.

And Rally Acropolis is one of the iconic events in WRC. If it is in any form possible to have a WRC round there, it must have its place in the calendar.

[AnttiL]

As for event formats, I sadly think we're stuck with the current 'generic WRC event'; I've never been a fan of the 'one size fits all' events - and would like to see a bit more variety to events. A mix of 2, 3 and even 4+ day events. Certain events, e;g the Monte should be a long Endurance type event (as should Rally of GB), wheres you could have Corsica over 2 days.

But Tour de Corse used to be one of the longest events, not by the number of days, but by stage hours. The drivers would spend four hours on stages a day, the same amount a 1000 Lakes Rally would last in total.

Rallying was more endurance based up until the Group B ended, then it became more speed oriented. Even the "Grand Prix" event, 1000 Lakes Rally used to have just two legs until 1985, a normal Friday evening leg and then a second leg which lasted for 24 hours with only lunch and dinner breaks, driving all night with no sleep in between. I think it's fair to say that you don't race it up to the tenths of second on the last hours of that leg.

The current WRC format is most likely made to fit for TV. They want to put emphasis on the power stage. If you drive five days in the woods before the power stage, there's no reason to count the seconds anymore, everything's already decided. This season we've had even the winner being decided on the power stage, that's exactly what they want. And TV is also why all events have a more or less same timetable, they must end on Sunday afternoon. In the 80's, RAC And Monte Carlo would start on a Sunday

Rallying has also become more intense with the split times and real time following. Back in the 70's even the drivers didn't know what their position was when they entered a stage. Personally I think 2,5 days of intense split time following is a good amount, if the rallies lasted for more days or were run in the night time, I'd probably fall back to just checking the results every now and then.

At the same time, I wouldn't mind if some events were allowed to have a proper competitive day on Thursday. Like GB, Monte, TDC.

[N.O.T]

I wouldn't want to see another rough gravel rally, we already have Mexico, Sardegna, Acropolis and Portugal for that.

acropolis ? wake up kid.... we do not have acropolis.

[AnttiL]

acropolis ? wake up kid.... we do not have acropolis.

Well whatever rally starts with an A :D

[Simmi]

Honestly just moving the event format back to what it was a few years ago (three relatively full legs, plus some Thursday PM stages) would be a victory.

We've been locked into the same format for quite a few years now. I guess the basic question is: does it work?

I'm trying to look at this objectively. Because as someone who attends 3-4 rounds a year I want to ultimately see more rallying. Always. But damn this year has been good so far. The best season in a LONG time.

WRC Promoter could probably come out and say - our product is fine, we're not changing a thing.

As fans we're not privy to the real TV numbers. We can look anecdotally at the amount of fans in the stages, the number of WRC cars and sponsors coming/going. I guess if even a great season like this isn't growing the profile of the sport then that's a problem.

What are the long-term goals for the WRC? What should they be?

[AnttiL]

Both Acropolis and Cyprus would be preferable. Acropolis is a legend and also Cyprus is a very special event. Completely different to Mexico, Portugal or even Sardegna.

Actually looking at the average speeds on juwra, seems that Cyprus would be something different indeed to the season because the winning average speeds have been only 60-70 km/h whereas the current rough gravel events or Acropolis have more like 80-90 km/h (Argentina closer to 100 in the last two years).

EDIT: Should have gone to ewrc for more recent results, apparently now it's a mixed surface event that's again faster...

[Antreas]

Both Acropolis and Cyprus would be preferable. Acropolis is a legend and also Cyprus is a very special event. Completely different to Mexico, Portugal or even Sardegna.

This years ERC Cyprus Rally was held also close to the biggest Tourist resorts of the island with some special stages going directly next to some beaches - stunning scenery for a TV powerstage for example. Michelle Mouton was also there to check the event this year according to some press releases. Maybe behind the curtain there is already something going on.

And Rally Acropolis is one of the iconic events in WRC. If it is in any form possible to have a WRC round there, it must have its place in the calendar.

M.Mouton visit Cyprus to cheque the rally, and I think is possible Cyprus rally join in the calendar of WRC

[rallyfiend]

M.Mouton visit Cyprus to cheque the rally, and I think is possible Cyprus rally join in the calendar of WRC

Michelle would be there to check safety.

I reckon that's a long way from being visited by WRC Promoter to sign a contract to be in the WRC....

Do they have the money to be in WRC?

Same with Acropolis. Have they paid their debts from the last WRC event there? Didn't the ASN go bankrupt owing money to WRC Promoter and FIA?

[liposh]

IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.

[Antreas]

IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.

Because gryazin face problems is a reason that Cyprus rally is bad??Cyprus Rally is very Historical round of WRC.A round in WRC must be difficult ,the better driver to win

[hari]

IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.

Having been at Rally Cyprus this year I also have no clue why it should have been a disaster?

Quite the contrary during the rally I was thinking that this would have been a great WRC event as it was in the past. It's demanding, its special.

Some gallery from 2017: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_erc_cyprus_rallye_2017.html

[liposh]

Am I really the only one who thinks such surface is not acceptable for ERC rally round but suitable max. for some local Baja race? Even if it was only this very short part it is still something bad.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Whatever happened to Rally Hokkaido? They ran it for a few years then it was off the calendar.

I'm still here ;-) I presume you mean Rally Japan. Rally Hokkaido is the APRC round, still held in the same area as the first few Rally Japan rounds were. I have heard several stories about Rally Japan's return, most connected with Toyota's WRC progress and how they would like it based closer to Toyota City.

[Simmi]

Am I really the only one who thinks such surface is not acceptable for ERC rally round but suitable max. for some local Baja race? Even if it was only this very short part it is still something bad.

Isn't the whole point of WRC to demonstrate that your car can drive off road? I don't see why one surface is worse than another? If anything the variety is good. I'd love to see a rough, attritional event return like Cyprus or the Acropolis.

To hear people call Portugal a rough gravel rally is a bit of joke to be honest.

[rallyfiend]

Isn't the whole point of WRC to demonstrate that your car can drive off road? I don't see why one surface is worse than another? If anything the variety is good. I'd love to see a rough, attritional event return like Cyprus or the Acropolis.

To hear people call Portugal a rough gravel rally is a bit of joke to be honest.

Portugal is rougher than Mexico, for sure.

I can't believe I'm hearing that people consider Mexico rough...

[AnttiL]

I was the one who used that word...maybe technical would be better term than rough, but certainly those events are similar in style compared to faster rallies like NZ, Finland and Poland. You have to excuse me, I was totally off following WRC for 15 years before this season, Mexico feels like a totally new event to me :)

[Rally Power]

But Tour de Corse used to be one of the longest events, not by the number of days, but by stage hours. The drivers would spend four hours on stages a day, the same amount a 1000 Lakes Rally would last in total.

Rallying was more endurance based up until the Group B ended, then it became more speed oriented. Even the "Grand Prix" event, 1000 Lakes Rally used to have just two legs until 1985, a normal Friday evening leg and then a second leg which lasted for 24 hours with only lunch and dinner breaks, driving all night with no sleep in between. I think it's fair to say that you don't race it up to the tenths of second on the last hours of that leg.

That’s the point I was trying to make; more than the number of competitive days or total stage kms, what keeps puzzling me is the short effort drivers are subjected each rally day. Driving around 140 competitive km’s for a little more than 1 hour in a full day leg is simply too short and looks a bit effortless; obviously it isn’t, especially considering the high performance of today’s cars, but nevertheless there’s room to make each rally day more physically demanding.

Instead of the 9 to 5 we could have a 6 to 12 (am/pm) marathon leg comprising 250 stage kms, with one or two service halts and an inline route replacing the boring ‘morning/afternoon’ identical loops. With this one only big leg on Saturday, plus a proper qualifying stage on Friday and a nice SSS run for Tele purposes (without counting for the classification) before Sunday’s podium ceremony, I honestly believe that we could get a new breed of sprint WRC events, more exciting to see and follow. In addition to those 10 or 12 short events we still would need 4 grand slam iconic events (Monte, GB (RAC inspired), NZ and Argentina), with 3 or 4 competitive days and a 600 stage kms limit.

I know, this is daydreaming as, like many of you already said, it’s not expectable to see big layout changes under the current exciting WRC environment. We’ll probably have to stick with some random event replacements and pray to Rally Gods for keeping manus loyal to the series.

Btw, even if WRC events became shorter after Gr.B, the real revolution was at the beginning of the 00’s, when Mr. Richard took ISC control and imposed the single service park, the clover leaf format, the 9 to 5 schedule and Sunday’s mini leg. All this, allegedly, to bring TV and mass media into WRC; 17 years after we’re still looking for them…

[AnttiL]

Could you please be more detailed about why and how would it make rallying "more exciting to see and follow" if all the stage kilometres were run on one day? More physically demanding so we would see more crashes towards the end of the day or we would see some drivers drive 80% speed because they just want to finish? Henri Toivonen said in one of his last interviews that driving for hours a day in a modern fast car is "too much for the brain". Also, we would have no rally 2 at all in this format?

I would also love to have more inline routes vs repetitions but there's obviously many practical reasons why running a stage twice is easier and cheaper to arrange than two separate stages. Also probably easier for a tourist spectator to stay in the same place for two stages than to switch stage.

Yes, rallying isn't as popular as it was 20 years ago, but you cannot claim it's because we have the single service park regulations and short days etc. Maybe if we would have had the old regulations all along, we wouldn't have WRC rallying at all anymore because no manufacturer could afford it?

Meanwhile, I like your idea about having events of different lengths, like a long GB rally and a long Monte with shorter Sweden and Finland, but the short rallies could stay as they are now.

[Eli]

It's funny seeing people calling Portugal & Mexico tough rallies, I mean really? the closest thing today we have to the Acropolis Rally is Rally Italia Sardegna. What the FIA & Promoter should do (but probably won't 'cause they love their bucks) is bring back Italy to Sanremo as a mixed event, first day tarmac & the next 2 days gravel or vice versa, after that make RACC a full proper tarmac event with night stages (as they did back in 2013), when they finish with those 2 events, take away Coffs coat's rally Australia & let NZ join in the fray. After that, since Poland might be leaving us, bring back Acropolis instead (as Poland took it's place since 2014), and if they really want add Cyprus, Japan & Ireland....but hey, why would they do that if it doesn't bring them any money?....

[BigWorm]

I think it's a shame China won't be appearing anytime soon, was a perfect fit with both being an Asian and a tarmac event.

[Rally Power]

Could you please be more detailed about why and how would it make rallying "more exciting to see and follow" if all the stage kilometres were run on one day? More physically demanding so we would see more crashes towards the end of the day or we would see some drivers drive 80% speed because they just want to finish? Henri Toivonen said in one of his last interviews that driving for hours a day in a modern fast car is "too much for the brain".

From my experience (only Portugal and Spain), and according to what is told about others WRC events, most of the time spectators can only see a SS in the morning and another one at the afternoon (luckily also a SSS, if that’s the case), during a rally day. It’s not hard to believe that in a long marathon leg we could managed to see in one day almost the number of stages that currently can be seen in a whole rally, with no boring loop breaks and getting a bit of the old day’s rush. Those at home (let’s be frank, besides a handful of motorsport forums dedicated members, how many guys actually follow the all 2 and a half days?) would also have the chance to keep up in a more thrilling way, without those huge breaks between loops and legs (sometimes one almost forget there’s still a rally going on).

For sure the clover leaf format still makes sense for rally’s being disputed in several days, but it’s not necessary if we could have sprint rally’s based on a long single leg. Btw, I also believe it wouldn’t be more dangerous to drivers: probably it’d make them develop a different driving approach, a bit like Formula guys do when driving at Le Mans.

Honestly I’m not regretting to have lost the (alleged) glorious old days; I’m just thinking on feasible alternatives to the 9 to 5 rally ‘office’ schedule, believing that actually it’s possible to bring up a more adventurous side of rally, which was present in past eras and hugely helped to forge our sport charisma.

[PLuto]

Actually looking at the average speeds on juwra, seems that Cyprus would be something different indeed to the season because the winning average speeds have been only 60-70 km/h whereas the current rough gravel events or Acropolis have more like 80-90 km/h (Argentina closer to 100 in the last two years).

EDIT: Should have gone to ewrc for more recent results, apparently now it's a mixed surface event that's again faster...

It is not so much mixed surface event, this year it was again more gravel one. But it is interesting mixture.

[PLuto]

IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.

I dont agree with you. Cyprus has much bigger potential to be interesting event. Because it is really DIFFERENT than Mexico, Sardegna or Portugal. Entry list and competition on Cyprus was not so bad, but unfortunatelly lot of good drivers retired soon...

[Andre Oliveira]

As i said on Cyprus thread: Cyprus and Acropolis only prove one thing, its places are in WRC. Rally use to be brutal to cars and drivers.

[AndyRAC]

Btw, even if WRC events became shorter after Gr.B, the real revolution was at the beginning of the 00’s, when Mr. Richard took ISC control and imposed the single service park, the clover leaf format, the 9 to 5 schedule and Sunday’s mini leg. All this, allegedly, to bring TV and mass media into WRC; 17 years after we’re still looking for them…

Exactly! Events were still a proper test - what I'd still define as Rallying; rather than what we have now which is almost Rally-lite. It is the equivalent of turning the Le Mans 24 Hours into the 6 Hours of Le Mans on the Bugatti circuit.

And I remember the uproar from certain writers bemoaning the changes. The teams & manufacturers were pleased as they were promised riches beyond belief; TV & sponsor money would roll in and WRC would threaten F1 in the global market.

Er, it didn't really happen - it was unsustainable. And we're not really any further on 17 years later.


I agree with RallyPower; you can keep most events as they are, fine no issues. However, some can become a short, sharp sprint event; Thursday/ Friday night SSS, followed by maybe 1 day of intense action - you could even repeat the stages in the reverse direction. Drivers are fitter than they've ever been, and if a driver can do a non stop 2-3 hour stint in an Endurance race, then a top WRC driver shouldn't have a problem with an intense day of action broken up between stages. You design the event so there aren't driver tiredness/ health issues.

[AnttiL]

you could even repeat the stages in the reverse direction.

This is not really possible. For example the spectator areas are differently safe to different directions and the ruts to the road probably make it tricky to drive to the wrong direction, etc.

BTW the rally stage length was limited to 400 kms already in 1997.

[Mirek]

It's quite often done on asphalt events but only from one day to another because of the new taping.

[OldF]

The length of rallies was longer in the past but at least for rally Finland and rally GB the average length of the stages were shorter. Shorter stages would give the organizer the possibility to choose the best parts of a road and leave out the boring parts just get enough stage length. But then again there would be more need for officials at the start and end of the stages.

Average stage length and number of stages on the right scale and total length of stages on the left scale.

http://kuvanjako.fi/gh3jc.jpg

http://kuvanjako.fi/dmx6c.jpg

[Rally Power]

Exactly! Events were still a proper test - what I'd still define as Rallying; rather than what we have now which is almost Rally-lite. It is the equivalent of turning the Le Mans 24 Hours into the 6 Hours of Le Mans on the Bugatti circuit.

And I remember the uproar from certain writers bemoaning the changes. The teams & manufacturers were pleased as they were promised riches beyond belief; TV & sponsor money would roll in and WRC would threaten F1 in the global market.

Er, it didn't really happen - it was unsustainable. And we're not really any further on 17 years later.




Well said!

[AndyRAC]

This is not really possible. For example the spectator areas are differently safe to different directions and the ruts to the road probably make it tricky to drive to the wrong direction, etc.


Well it has happened in the past. I've been to Hafren (Dyfnant was also reversed ) when it has run in both directions on the same day; the run in the morning was 8-9:00 and the evening was 16-17:00; so there was enough time to turn the stage around. But I know that its become out of favour to do this anymore.

[satnav]

Is there any word when there will be confirmed news about 2018 rallies and dates.

[AnttiL]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131152/turkey-croatia-closing-on-2018-wrc-dates


WRC Promoter will present its 2018 calendar to the WRC Commission meeting in Germany later this month.

[Antreas]

Croatia and Turkey is close to add in the calendar of WRC

[Eli]

Croatia and Turkey is close to add in the calendar of WRCWhy they persist on having Croatia is beyond me, didn't they say they want more non-European events?

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[tommeke_B]

Still no draft calendar? For Turkey, they have their candidate event from 20 to 22th of October, it's the Marmaris Rally. Quite strange to have a candidate event while everything should already be in place (in terms of calendar). Anyone who knows where and when the candidate event for Croatia is going to take place?

[Eli]

Still no draft calendar? For Turkey, they have their candidate event from 20 to 22th of October, it's the Marmaris Rally. Quite strange to have a candidate event while everything should already be in place (in terms of calendar). Anyone who knows where and when the candidate event for Croatia is going to take place?I presume at the time of Rally Poland. End of June.

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[Simmi]

Croatia and Turkey is close to add in the calendar of WRC

Hmmm.

Story in MN today is that Poland is definitely out - replaced by Turkey which would run in a September date. FIA Promoter are struggling with Croatia to find a suitable date that doesn't clash with the height of tourist season. So looks like it won't happen now. Also for NZ, Ciesla said the teams won't support that extra travel/expense as a 14th round.

Also Wales GB and Catalunya are likely to switch around on the calendar. First six events of the season will run in the same order as 2017.

[tommeke_B]

I presume at the time of Rally Poland. End of June.

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I meant the candidate event, which should normally take place before it's decided wether they take it on the calendar or not. ;)
It's a smaller event, but Ypres has moved their event to the last week of June. It probably means the organizers know there's no WRC event that weekend.

[Eli]

I meant the candidate event, which should normally take place before it's decided wether they take it on the calendar or not. ;)
It's a smaller event, but Ypres has moved their event to the last week of June. It probably means the organizers know there's no WRC event that weekend.Probably, we'll have to wait and see...

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[liposh]

tommeke_B: I guess you are searching for this article: http://rally-croatia.com/news/wrc-calendar-to-be-expanded-in-2018-the-candidates-are-new-zealand-and-croatia/ ...in 2017 it takes place last September weekend. Most probably the spot for 2018 will be really second half of June

[Archie Gillaine]

They won't have a 14th round, so NZ is a no go. Bit of a cop out. Fine; forget about Turkey/ Croatia.......what can they offer??

[Simmi]

Fine; forget about Turkey/ Croatia.......what can they offer??

Money

[sonnybobiche]

What a farce. If this was about safety, the first rally they would drop would be Monte Carlo, where a guy actually died this year and where there have been openly stated concerns about spectator safety for years. I'm not saying the should actually drop Monte Carlo, I think motorsport in general is in a downward spiral of health and safety gone mad. But if you were a complete safety wanker, the first rally you should go after, if you have a modicum of integrity and intellectual honesty, is Monte Carlo.

What about the other complaints of crazy stuff at Rally Poland, like the fire truck that went onto a live stage. Hey, did anyone remember that the exact same thing just happened at Rally Germany? Where's the fake outraged media coverage of that?

Goddamn corrupt hypocrites, the lot of them. I can't stand that.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Didn't know the Police car drove into Rally traffic...

Poland should have been long gone

September for Turkey.

It's excellent news!

Shame about NZ... still need to get back into the WRC!!

Croatia would be a great asphalt addition to be honest.

[sonnybobiche]

Didn't know the Police car drove into Rally traffic...




Well if we're just taking into consideration what *actually* happened on a rally as opposed to what *could* have happened, then the first rally that should go should be Monte Carlo, since a spectator was *actually* killed there. So why aren't you saying Monte Carlo should be long gone?

[Eli]

Didn't they want to add Japan a while back because of Toyota's return to the sport?

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[Andre Oliveira]

So,

Monte-Carlo Tarmac-Snow
Sweden Snow
Mexico Gravel
Tour de Corse Tarmac
Argentina Gravel
Portugal Gravel
Sardegna Gravel
Finland Gravel
Deutschland Tarmac
Turkey Gravel
Catalunya Gravel-Tarmac
Great Britain Gravel
Australia Gravel

[Eli]

So,

Monte-Carlo Tarmac-Snow
Sweden Snow
Mexico Gravel
Tour de Corse Tarmac
Argentina Gravel
Portugal Gravel
Sardegna Gravel
Finland Gravel
Deutschland Tarmac
Turkey Gravel
Catalunya Gravel-Tarmac
Great Britain Gravel
Australia GravelMonte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Corsica
Argentina
Portugal
Italy
Finland
Germany
Turkey
GB
Spain
Australia

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[Andre Oliveira]

We don't need Mexico and Argentina on calendar in same time. Very similar rallies.

Criminal is New Zealand not in.

[Eli]

We don't need Mexico and Argentina on calendar in same time. Very similar rallies.

Criminal is New Zealand not in.Even if we do, why not put them one after another with a 2 weeks difference?? After that make one of the european rounds come also 2 weeks one after another then you make room for another summer round... Or just make the summer brake a little longer?

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[Myrvold]

Or at least just put Mexico and Argentina as rounds that follow eachother. That way you don't have to ship cars to Europe for one single round, and then back again. It's not really cost effective..

[rallyfiend]

Or at least just put Mexico and Argentina as rounds that follow eachother. That way you don't have to ship cars to Europe for one single round, and then back again. It's not really cost effective..

The cars always fly back and forth. Making rounds like that close together doesn't help.
They also need time to send the seafreight from event to event.

[focus206]

Or at least just put Mexico and Argentina as rounds that follow eachother. That way you don't have to ship cars to Europe for one single round, and then back again. It's not really cost effective..

They always ship the cars from Mexico directly to Argentina and they use other cars for the European round in the middle of those.

[er88]

Spain should be full tarmac due to the shortage of tarmac events.

Mexico and Argentina should both be in the calendar, are people really wanting to lose another non European event?

NZ should have been in over Turkey, but hopefully Turkey can provide the championship with a really rough "car breaker" of an event. The old event in Turkey was just that, along with Cyprus and Greece but we've lost all of them.

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[Andre Oliveira]

Mexico replaced by New Zealand is the ideal.

[rallyfiend]

They always ship the cars from Mexico directly to Argentina and they use other cars for the European round in the middle of those.

No they don't. Not the manufacturers.

[Tarmop]

Recce and service cars yes, but competition cars go back to the main base for servicing. They are pretty beaten after those rough events and need a good overhaul and checking, not something you can do in a tent. If anything, it would be more expensive to have those events so close.

[Eli]

How come Australia has kept it's place since 2013 is beyond me, I mean the entry list is quite small especially now it's the season finale, and it doesn't have that special gravel it used to have back in Perth. Why can't they just take out Australia, bring back NZ, put Wales @ the end of the season, and for the time being don't have a replacement for Poland & once they find a proper rally add it to the calendar.
I guess it's all about the money and who pays best. On a bit of a different note, I hope the rallies will be longer than this year's average of 320Km of competitive driving.

[stefanvv]

On a bit of a different note, I hope the rallies will be longer than this year's average of 320Km of competitive driving.

Yes, they can do that. The new wrc cars has proved their reliability to last longer routes, they might even reconsider getting rid of rally2.

[Eli]

Also a return for more night time stages would be nice in rallies like: Sweden, Corsica, Germany, Wales (more than this year), Spain... Would add a bit of an adverse challenge for the crews.

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[er88]

Mexico replaced by New Zealand is the ideal.Nah. Both events are really unique and we need the championship to be more worldwide. A European event has to go if they are going to stick with just 13.

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[AnttiL]

Yes, they can do that. The new wrc cars has proved their reliability to last longer routes, they might even reconsider getting rid of rally2.

I don't agree with that. I think the point of Rally2 is that we have more manufacturer cars by the last day. Rally2 cars can score manufacturer points and that's a reason for manufacturers to put the cars into rally2, as well as drivers being able to score power stage points.

But I wouldn't mind having a bit more stage kms, maybe a thursday evening leg after the super special.

[pantealex]

Mexico and Argentina have so short entry list that don´t deserve slot in WRC. It´s not right that you can buy WRC(2/3) points.

There are other rallies outside europe which would attract more entries.
And many rallies inside europa which are better than Mexico or Argentina.

[rallyfiend]

NZ is just too small a car market for anyone to care about. The reality is that is just has nice roads. If they're not able to pay, I imagine that's not enough for the teams or promoter to actually want to go there.

NZ had 146,000 new car registrations in 2016.
Australia had 1,178,000....

That's a big difference...

[tommeke_B]

Yes. But as discussed before, the impact you have on that market is important too. In Australia nobody cares about the rally. So how much return do you get then? Finland has a small car market but when the rally is there, it's the biggest event in the year and everyone is following it. For the manufacturers it's better to find another marketing strategy in those big countries where nobody cares about rallying, and use rallying where people are interested. You cannot "build" interest in WRC in just a couple of years.

[pantealex]

In Finland we sell way less cars than NZ does, but still teams usually vote Finland as best event, so nothing to do with car sales. If we only look car sales, we would have India, China, USA, Russia...

[racerx1979]

Was going to post the exact same thing.

I've spectated one national rally in NZ and the atmosphere was great. In Finland the fans are the most passionate especially for the local boys, but they're just fans at heart for the damn love of the sport. You have people waiting outside at early morning hours just to see rally cars go by. Families will make camp at a rest stops or in front of their house because they know the cars will be passing by. Old, young and even little kids know what time it is when there is a rally in Finland. I hear its the same for the F-Cup national rally guys as well. In comparison I saw nothing like this in Australia, Mexico and now Germany. If there is one rally you need to go see it is Finland. I think Finland is for rally as California is for people who want to be in the entertainment business. If you live in Finland you have all the resources to go rallying. It's brilliant. NZ is very similar in so many ways. They have great roads, tons of support, good fans who behave and respect others and beautiful scenery. The money they would make from ticket sales would be a hell of a lot more than Australia.

NZ national rallies were also very similar. People would be standing around street corners with their NZ flags waiting to cheer on the drivers. Very similar to Finland, but at a much smaller scale. They truly deserve a round of the WRC even if it means canceling Australia which as far as spectating is concerned sucks major donkey balls. Did I mention Rally Australia sucks ass? Sorry I'm just bitter that a rally in my current home soil is so badly organized for spectators.

#bringbackNZ #AUSrallysucksmajordonkeynuts

Rant over! Back to work :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

So why aren't you saying Monte Carlo should be long gone?

Difference between a freak accident as what happened in Monte

To idiot "fans" or people who want to take a stupid selfie with a car flying past over 150kph on a corner or bend or small lift, to people not listening to marshals or the organization thus loosing their event due to their poor actions and immaturity let alone stupidity.

Monte was an accident.

Poland would have been, if it ever did an even worse, actual fault being blamed ON the person or people hit by/injured by a world rally car.

[steve.mandzij]

Mexico and Argentina have so short entry list that don´t deserve slot in WRC. It´s not right that you can buy WRC(2/3) points.

There are other rallies outside europe which would attract more entries.
And many rallies inside europa which are better than Mexico or Argentina.I don't know, but I saw quite a number of Fabias when I went there this year, driven by Argentines, Benito Guerra and Fuchs, who unfortunately we're completely trounced by Tidemand. There was even a national spec Ford Ka in the mix. Add to that the insane amount of spectators and the increible roads (I've never been to some place as awesome as El Cóndor filled with spectators who slept in their cars in my life) and Argentina deserves a spot. The atmosphere is amazing and the entry list isn't too bad. If the national championship ran all three days, it would be even bigger.

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[Duvel]

So when will the calander be final? Whit al this speculation here.. Now i'm getting really nervous to know.

[tc10a]

So when will the calander be final? Whit al this speculation here.. Now i'm getting really nervous to know.

FIA Motorsport Council, September 21st 2017

[AndyRAC]

Argentina must stay; great event, unique stages & scenery, massive local interest = a fantastic event.
NZ is similar; the best gravel roads in the world, stunning scenery, healthy local interest, and most important in my view, a small country with a great motorsport heritage, which punches well above its weight; McLaren, Hulme, Mauger, Crosby, Crafar, Dixon, van Gisbergen, Stanaway, Anstey, Hartley, Bamber et al....

In my view, any new event has to add something different to the WRC; simply having a large bag of £$£$£$£ isn't enough - but that seems to be the No1 criteria nowadays.

[Eli]

If the FIA had a problem with the September gap why just not bring Australia back to it's original slot, it's not like it being a season Finale makes it better. As for the replacement of Poland, if you're going to bring Turkey as a replacement then why not put Turkey in Poland's date, what happened that suddenly it doesn't fit the schedule?...but of-course FIA needs to create new problems before it actually manages to solve the existing ones.

[Simmi]

If the FIA had a problem with the September gap why just not bring Australia back to it's original slot, it's not like it being a season Finale makes it better. As for the replacement of Poland, if you're going to bring Turkey as a replacement then why not put Turkey in Poland's date, what happened that suddenly it doesn't fit the schedule?...but of-course FIA needs to create new problems before it actually manages to solve the existing ones.

Where are you finding this info?

Word is that Turkey will be a September rally. It plugs one gap but another one opens up during June/July before Finland. But with all the higher profile sport going on during the summer I think it's less of an issue.

Also the FIA is not the one putting the calendar together, that's WRC Promoter. The FIA just has to sign off on it.

[Eli]

Where are you finding this info?

Word is that Turkey will be a September rally. It plugs one gap but another one opens up during June/July before Finland. But with all the higher profile sport going on during the summer I think it's less of an issue.

Also the FIA is not the one putting the calendar together, that's WRC Promoter. The FIA just has to sign off on it.

It's just my opinion, perhaps I should have made that clear beforehand, and my bad (it being the WRC Promoter & not the FIA putting the calendar together) so the WRC Promoter should know how to handle this sort of stuff.

[focus206]

No they don't. Not the manufacturers.

I've always read that it's exactly the manufacturers that ship the cars from Mexico to Argentina...?

[Tarmop]

Recce cars and service trucks yes, after Argentina they sail to Australia and after that back home, where they soon leave for Mexico again... Competition cars are transported via air, overhauled before each event ( or a completely new chassis is flewn to the rally).

[focus206]

Recce cars and service trucks yes, after Argentina they sail to Australia and after that back home, where they soon leave for Mexico again... Competition cars are transported via air, overhauled before each event ( or a completely new chassis is flewn to the rally).

Thanks, I indeed just read articles about that, I got confused.

[A FONDO]

In Finland we sell way less cars than NZ does, but still teams usually vote Finland as best event, so nothing to do with car sales. If we only look car sales, we would have India, China, USA, Russia...

Finland itself is perhaps a poor market but it has many neighbours who visit it. ;) NZ has only cannibals and coconuts around it.

[Tarmop]

They commented that "all-Finnish" thing i believe and said that bigger markets like Asia etc consider all Europe as one so there`s no big difference who drives and where the event is held, as long as the result is good.



Like i said in one topic. Probably the policy for all the teams.

[swanny]

Finland itself is perhaps a poor market but it has many neighbours who visit it. ;) NZ has only cannibals and coconuts around it.

The internet is full of wonderful people....

[KiwiWRCfan]

Finland itself is perhaps a poor market but it has many neighbours who visit it. ;) NZ has only cannibals and coconuts around it.
Having read this post I must reflect on my day out watching a rally and be very thankful that no cannibals have eaten me today. I am also very happy none of my friends or family have been eaten by cannibals today.
I checked with other rally fans to find out how many rally fans have been eaten by cannibals, apparently it has never happened.
If you want to come to a rally in NZ you will be safe from Cannibals and have a great time.

[racerx1979]

I was once attacked buy an angry sheep, but never had issues with cannibals

[liposh]

Maybe it was a cannibal sheep. Who knows? :)

[GravelBen]

Maybe it was a cannibal sheep. Who knows? :)

Ever see the movie 'Black Sheep'? Quite hilarious (in a very NZ way)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0779982/

[Zeakiwi]

It is a dangerous planet with plenty of potentially dangerous people. I apologise for being a realist. The most present danger to foreign tourists in NZ is the 'driving on the wrong side of the road' and adventure sports - parachuting, bungee jumping, skiing, atvs, horses, white water sports etc
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/95346417/the-swedish-murders-clothing-found-near-tamihere-murder-site-sparks-renewed-interest-in-case
Wilder parts of the Pacific region.
https://youtu.be/XqkjRxzztJQ?t=29m

[ToKu]

What Pantealex was pointing out is that in the proximty of NZ rally (lets say 1000 km radius) lives something like 5 - 10 millions peope. In the same proximity of rally Finland there are more like 100 millions peoples living.

You can make the radius 2000 km, 5000 km etc still number of people living within this range will be greater by at least an order of magnitude.

[racerx1979]

Ive been to NZ many times and I completely agree. The only issues for a tourist would be driving on the right side and the urge to pull over every 5 minutes to take in the scenery. Driving around the South Island is beautiful. By far the most beautiful scenery of the many countries I've been fortunate to see.

If you plan a 4 hour road trip give yourself an extra 3 because you will be stopping a lot!

[GravelBen]

What Pantealex was pointing out is that in the proximty of NZ rally (lets say 1000 km radius) lives something like 5 - 10 millions peope. In the same proximity of rally Finland there are more like 100 millions peoples living.

You can make the radius 2000 km, 5000 km etc still number of people living within this range will be greater by at least an order of magnitude.

But does that even matter when most viewers are following it on tv or online? If it was funded by the number of spectators on the ground rallying would be long dead.

In fact the spectators on the ground might not even be the WRC promoter target market because they are probably not following it so much online / on tv while they're standing beside a stage. The tv/online market are the people who aren't there in person.

[janvanvurpa]

Having read this post I must reflect on my day out watching a rally and be very thankful that no cannibals have eaten me today. I am also very happy none of my friends or family have been eaten by cannibals today.
I checked with other rally fans to find out how many rally fans have been eaten by cannibals, apparently it has never happened.
If you want to come to a rally in NZ you will be safe from Cannibals and have a great time.


While greatly relieved I should gently point out he said "surrounded by" cannibals....not populated by..

Then again, I din't think NZ was surrounded by anything except the South Pacific for more than 2000 km in every direction..
You're down there..how far is it over to the Western Island? 2029km--I went and checked ---to Sydney..
see what I mean?

[sollitt]

But does that even matter when most viewers are following it on tv or online? If it was funded by the number of spectators on the ground rallying would be long dead.

In fact the spectators on the ground might not even be the WRC promoter target market because they are probably not following it so much online / on tv while they're standing beside a stage. The tv/online market are the people who aren't there in person.All of course is justification for staging all rounds of the championship in and around the areas where the teams are based. A world championship doesn't have to travel. Rallying is a European sport.

[the sniper]

All of course is justification for staging all rounds of the championship in and around the areas where the teams are based.

I can't see that his argument supports that at all. If anything stage side spectators are viewed as an inconvenience on most rallies nowadays by the FIA, promoter and rally organisers. The WRC has the freedom to seek out the best stages/rallies in the world to make the best product/show for its global audience, I think most of this audience (including us here) believe New Zealand would contribute strongly to the product/show.


A world championship doesn't have to travel.

It literally does.


Rallying is a European sport.

With a long history of events outside of Europe...

[dupanton]

Roadside spectators are important for villages and regions who often sponsor the rallye. They want as much spectators as possible in the restaurants, bars and hotels in the region. Also, the local sponsors like a lots of (local) people for exposure.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Finland itself is perhaps a poor market but it has many neighbours who visit it. ;) NZ has only cannibals and coconuts around it.

The term "Coconuts" is deemed racist by many

By the way Tourism is New Zealand's biggest industry

[ToKu]

Rallying is a sport very hard to show on screen, and it can't gain, build and maintain popularity with tv and online transmission.
IMHO if organiser and FIA replace rallies with big crowds on ground and three pages start lists with beautiful, but deserted events for 20 cars then.... rallies would become some exotic niche even faster then I thougt.

Of course there are some people who believe rallying is already exotic niche...

[A FONDO]

The term "Coconuts" is deemed racist by many



Didn't know that. I meant the fruit that floats in the sea and travels up to 2000 kms between islands. Or I should have used any of the local fish species. Anyway Toku got the idea.

[electroliquid]

Since it is WORLD rally championship it need not only rallies around the World, but also drivers from outside Europe. Now there is only Hayden in works team not from Europe. Among 22 drives with points in 2017 WRC classification also only Hayden. In WRC2 is bit better situation, but still only 5 non-Europeans out of 35. Now rallies outside Europe is far from each other, so with relatively small amount of money you can do only your home rally.
APRC has Asia cup and Pacific cup, which are useless, because there participate same drivers as in all APRC, and take two titles at once, etc. If there would be Australia, NZ, one more rally from APRC zone, it could be Asia-pacific cup with R2/R3 cars with some award like there is in JWRC, also similar could be done in South America/Central America.
Also looks like NZ comeback question is alive only because Hayden. When all drivers, and manufacturers bases are in Europe is hard to expect they want to go in other continents. WRC should have all expected and unexpected possible conditions from freezing cold to extreme hot, from snow to dust to tarmac, and so on. Now it became "European" championship with few outside events. We already have ERC, with few rallies far away Europe and one who technically is in Asia. NZ being far from other countries should't be object of discuss, because Azores is one of the key events in ERC and it's also "middle of nowhere".

[sollitt]

I can't see that his argument supports that at all. It absolutely supports the argument. If spectators on the ground aren't the target market, there's no need to travel. You may as well compact the series and enable better use of resources, potentially more participants and more opportunities for drivers.
If anything stage side spectators are viewed as an inconvenience on most rallies nowadays by the FIA, promoter and rally organisers. Another supportive comment.
The WRC has the freedom to seek out the best stages/rallies in the world to make the best product/show for its global audience, Yes they do. But they also need to balance that against the economic factors.




It literally does. No, it actually doesn't.

[GravelBen]

It absolutely supports the argument. If spectators on the ground aren't the target market, there's no need to travel. You may as well compact the series and enable better use of resources, potentially more participants and more opportunities for drivers.

If spectators on the ground aren't the main target market, there is no need to limit the championship to highly populated regions - you can use a wider variety of more interesting less populated places chosen for the best roads, variety of conditions, different challenges for crews, scenery for marketing etc.

Your argument taken to its conclusion says why bother with rallying at all - because rallycross and circuit racing meet all your assumed 'benefits' better.

[sollitt]

If spectators on the ground aren't the main target market, there is no need to limit the championship to highly populated regions - you can use a wider variety of more interesting less populated places chosen for the best roads, variety of conditions, different challenges for crews, scenery for marketing etc.

Your argument taken to its conclusion says why bother with rallying at all - because rallycross and circuit racing meet all your assumed 'benefits' better.

Rallycross and circuit racing are not rallying. Your comment around that is nonsense.
Your earlier comment is quite correct, which highlights my point. Logistics being the criteria rather than the subjective emotive bullshit.

[the sniper]

It absolutely supports the argument. If spectators on the ground aren't the target market, there's no need to travel. You may as well compact the series and enable better use of resources, potentially more participants and more opportunities for drivers.

Do you work for WRC promoter? You must love the idea of Rally Croatia and Turkey... Or are they too far/too much of an effort/expense too? You come across rather contrary. If we're going to keep up this discussion can you please flesh out your plan. What are you actually proposing? So far at best you seem to be advocating a return, after 44 years of the World Championship, for the WRC to return to European Rally Championship status. At worst you could be advocating turning the WRC into a Gymkhana Championship, perhaps focused of running around the car parks of the competing manufacture teams bases...


Another supportive comment.

How does having more rounds in Europe, where there are large numbers of spectators, help that perceived problem?


Yes they do. But they also need to balance that against the economic factors.

So rallying is too poor to maintain a World Championship, which it currently does?


No, it actually doesn't.

No, it LITERALLY does. Familiarise yourself with the FIA's requirements for a series to maintain World Championship status.

[sollitt]

You seem very big on presumption but very light on reality. Let me give you some.

At various times throughout the 44 years that you quote, most major car manufacturers have participated in the WRC. Now, today, most don't.
Whenever they have ceased to participate, or not begun to do so at all, it is usually due to economic reasons.
Ours is a costly sport and the largest cost, as with any global activity, is logistics ... travel and transportation.
Indeed the reason touted for the promoters shying away from reinstating RNZ is that the manufacturers consider the event too costly to attend.

Now the facts are that New Zealand is no more costly to freight into than Australia or Argentina. It may be marginally, but not astronomically, more expensive to fly the crew there. Certainly not sufficient to rule out the event. So does this really mean that manufacturers view all far away events as unjustifiably costly?
And if that is the case, given that some of the current manufacturers are suggested to have limitless budgets, how much of a deterrent are these costs to others entering the contest?
Would there be more manufacturers if the costs were less? Would there be more opportunities for drivers?

My points have nothing to do with rally-cross or circuit racing or gymkhanas in car parks.
The fact is as soon as you put something in the air or on the water it becomes expensive.
I’d much rather see a dozen events well supported by a variety of manufacturers, and with more top drivers, than a skeleton of a championship with barely a handful of teams and no career opportunities.

[GravelBen]

But you haven't made any logical connection to support your claim that focussing less on physical spectators and more on remote spectators would/should result in a smaller championship condensed to areas of higher population density - all you're doing is patronisingly repeating a glaringly obvious fact that travel costs money (so does developing a new generation of car every time they change the rules)

If the manufacturers (encouraged by the promoter) focus on the marketing appeal of 'exotic' locations more than counting feet on the ground beside stages, it should become easier for them to justify the travel cost - they like filming advertisements there after all.

Focussing primarily on physical spectator numbers for justification is more likely to result in your suggestion - small condensed standard-format events in high population areas to make it easy for casual viewers to access, while the more-than-casual fans get bored and grumble on the internet about how much better it used to be.

Reducing the scale, drama and variety of a championship is not a good way to improve its profile and increase support, its more likely to make it less interesting and lose supporters. At the times you refer to when more manufacturers were present, was WRC more or less global? Did they have rallies in places like Africa, Japan, NZ or was it just a European championship?

[sollitt]

But you haven't made any logical connection to support your claim that focussing less on physical spectators and more on remote spectators would/should result in a smaller championship condensed to areas of higher population density...
I've made no claims whatsoever about physical vs remote spectators or population density. You have ...


But does that even matter when most viewers are following it on tv or online? If it was funded by the number of spectators on the ground rallying would be long dead.
In fact the spectators on the ground might not even be the WRC promoter target market because they are probably not following it so much online / on tv while they're standing beside a stage. The tv/online market are the people who aren't there in person.
Incidentally, neither have I suggested that the "scale, drama or variety" of the championship be reduced.

About spectators though. They have their uses.
Someone earlier, quite incorrectly, suggested that television is not a good method of showcasing rallying. In fact rallying and television are made for each other. It's an excellent television sport. But like any sport shown on the screen, it loses appeal for the viewer if played in an empty stadium. Spectator numbers are important to create atmosphere (scale & drama) ... even on the screen.

[GravelBen]

I've made no claims whatsoever about physical vs remote spectators or population density. You have ...

You quoted my earlier post about those factors as being "justification for staging all rounds of the championship in and around the areas where the teams are based."

You also said "If spectators on the ground aren't the target market, there's no need to travel. You may as well compact the series"


Incidentally, neither have I suggested that the "scale, drama or variety" of the championship be reduced.

Ok drama is hard to predict/quantify but how is your statement "A world championship doesn't have to travel. Rallying is a European sport." not suggesting a reduction in the scale or variety of the championship?

I agree that large crowds of spectators can add atmosphere and thats not a bad thing - I'm not suggesting spectators on the ground don't matter at all, just that they're not the only factor and not every rally should have to rely on that.

[sollitt]

... but how is your statement "A world championship doesn't have to travel. Rallying is a European sport." not suggesting a reduction in the scale or variety of the championship?.. .Are you suggesting that Europe has not the landscape, history or capacity to stage a dozen WRC calibre events?

[the sniper]

Are you suggesting that Europe has not the landscape, history or capacity to stage a dozen WRC calibre events?

Are you still ignoring that an FIA World Championship can't be held only in Europe...? Do you honestly believe that new manufacturers will join your European Championship because the main thing keeping other manufacturers out of the WRC now are the costs associated with the events held outside of Europe?

This is such a pointless discussion...

[Grundo Farb]

This is such a pointless discussion...

Finally a sensible statement! Trying to have a reasoned non-pedantic discussion with Sollitt is like trying to pick Mercury up off a stainless steel bench.

Impossible.

The WRC needs variety and interest. I struggle to understand how Hyundai's young driver program only has Europeans in it. Was that because they could all drive there for an interview? Seems to have been a major factor. Irrespective there is a problem with the sport when at the pinnacle a Top Manufacturer has 8 of the most promising new drivers - from one continent....

[Simmi]

A small piece in MN today with Yves Matton questioning WRC Promoter and saying the championship doesn't have a 'clear global view'. And that it needs someone to assess the value that each new rally brings to the table. Or reading between the lines - communicate that with the teams.

For what it's worth he said he'd have added New Zealand due to it's historical significance in the championship, and also the great scenery/pictures it provides.

Not really a lot of other news in MN. I think everyone is on holiday.

EDIT: Australia secures funding for another three years - https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/rally/rally-australia-inks-three-year-government-deal/

[Simmi]

I struggle to understand how Hyundai's young driver program only has Europeans in it. Was that because they could all drive there for an interview? Seems to have been a major factor. Irrespective there is a problem with the sport when at the pinnacle a Top Manufacturer has 8 of the most promising new drivers - from one continent....

They are already running a Korean junior driver in R5. And that's going really great for them...

Genuine question through, which drivers from outside Europe deserved a place more than the guys they picked? Meaning they'd have to be competitive in WRC2 next year.

[Grundo Farb]

They are already running a Korean junior driver in R5. And that's going really great for them...

Genuine question through, which drivers from outside Europe deserved a place more than the guys they picked? Meaning they'd have to be competitive in WRC2 next year.

Precisely my point. There are only European drivers exposed as the WRC never goes anywhere else. I could name 3 top drivers from Australia and New Zealand but you would never have heard of them. Why? because they aren't in a WRC feeder series. Does that mean they aren't as good? No.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Rally Australia with government funding for three years...

How exciting.

Not! *rolls eyes*

[AndyRAC]

A shame Perth couldn't get the funding; a unique ball bearing surface, the Bunnings stages (now called something else) and an event which had a party atmosphere. Instead we get the current damp squib....marvellous...

and NZ can't get in the WRC.

[Eli]

A shame Perth couldn't get the funding; a unique ball bearing surface, the Bunnings stages (now called something else) and an event which had a party atmosphere. Instead we get the current damp squib....marvellous...

and NZ can't get in the WRC.Didn't they stop the funding of the event because of them wanting to save planet earth or something?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[sollitt]

Do you honestly believe that new manufacturers will join your European Championship because the main thing keeping other manufacturers out of the WRC now are the costs associated with the events held outside of Europe?

I'm suggesting it's a possibility. have you asked them?

[sollitt]

Trying to have a reasoned non-pedantic discussion with Sollitt is like trying to pick Mercury up off a stainless steel bench. .Only if you're incapable of rational discussion. The only suggestion I have made is to apply an age old well proven principle that if you cut costs you will increase participation. It's a no brainer - a proven formula.
The response ... spurious, emotive nonsense and misquotations.

[the sniper]

I'm suggesting it's a possibility. have you asked them?

:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen any comment or even suggestion, anywhere, by any manufacturer currently in or out of the WRC, that the WRC becoming a European Championship would encourage them to join or remain in the Championship?


Only if you're incapable of rational discussion. The only suggestion I have made is to apply an age old well proven principle that if you cut costs you will increase participation. It's a no brainer - a proven formula.
The response ... spurious, emotive nonsense and misquotations.

Good point very badly made. You've been vague, evasive and yet continually contrary throughout this exchange. Your 'suggestion' was lost in your initial spurious argument.

[GravelBen]

Only if you're incapable of rational discussion. The only suggestion I have made is to apply an age old well proven principle that if you cut costs you will increase participation. It's a no brainer - a proven formula.

Its only a no brainer if you don't bother using your brain - its overly simplistic short term thinking, ignoring the longer term consequences of cutting costs but reducing value and appeal. Cutting costs is a good thing in principle, but it depends very much on how its done.

Did participation drop because of higher costs when the more expensive 2017 generation WRC cars were announced? No, because they saw the value that faster, more aggressive cars could bring by creating a more exciting spectacle for viewers.

Making the whole championship use R2 class cars would reduce costs, but that doesn't mean it would increase the appeal and profile of the series or boost long-term participation.


The response ... spurious, emotive nonsense and misquotations.

If you're going to accuse people of those things then its better to provide examples... otherwise it looks like you're just resorting to insults because you don't have anything useful to say.

[sindroms]

Jean Todt this weekend is visiting Latvia to attend World Rallycross Championship leg in Latvia. According to Latvian ASN press release - "...this visit is great opportunity to raise a question about of the possibility to host the World Rally Championship in Latvia". Original source (in Latvian) - http://laf.lv/rallijkrosu-bikerniekos-skatisies-ari-zans-tots/

[EstWRC]

in estonian media there have been many speculations that Estonia and Latvia could make a round together. but just speculations so far.

[go go thierry]

that should be a nice gravelrally to visit, also very cheap i think

[Tarmop]

Well, i doubt that.:) Latvia could balance that a bit with a lot cheaper alcohol, a bit cheaper fuel and food, but accomodation in summer time+ a guaranteed amount of visiters will double the prices, which aren`t really cheap anyway (you can find good offers, but they`ll probably be booked a year before).

[go go thierry]

is it today that the FIA will give the calender for 2018??

[KiwiWRCfan]

is it today that the FIA will give the calender for 2018??
World Motorsport Council meet in Paris today. Calendar for WRC 2018 is on their agenda

[Reis Eduardo]

The autosport.pt says that Turkey is in 2018 and the Croatian only in 2019, say that the news was advanced by the organizers of the Croatian race
https://www.autosport.pt/ralis/turquia-croacia-no-wrc/

[pantealex]

10th round Turkey in September

Wales before Spain and Australia

official info or just rumors ?

[EstWRC]

i guess you mean this ?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKQysk8WAAAtnLS.jpg

[pantealex]

i guess you mean this ?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKQysk8WAAAtnLS.jpg

Yes. That´s what I mean.

[EstWRC]

i found it on twitter and it was said to be official but i dont know if it really is.

[jbmarcus21]

FIA revealed today new WRC 2018 Calendar : 13 rounds include Turkey (NO Poland) & switch Espana ↔ GB → bit.ly/2wC6DBT

[ik1911]

We will have 1,5 month without WRC event (10 june-26 july). Enough to put one more rally in Calendar (end of June!)

[EstWRC]

no, the teams need a break too.

[rallyfiend]

no, the drivers need a break too.

The drivers have plenty of spare time.

Nice for the team members who do the real work to be able to have a nice Summer break.

[EstWRC]

well i had the same idea, i edited my post.

[Eli]

The 2018 calendar and the only interesting bit here: "There remains speculation of Italy's round moving back to the mainland and a northern Italian base."
Everything else as expected...no NZ, still Australia....and didn't they say a couple of years ago they wanted Japan back because of Toyota or something?

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131957/turkey-wrc-schedule-return-ratified

[sonnybobiche]

Hey, someone remind me, didn't a misplaced spectator actually die in Monte Carlo this year? Did they even get a 'yellow card' for that? No? But Poland loses its place in the calendar for bad spectator behavior?

"No!", you say, "it was because the organizers were stupid and allowed a fire truck to go onto a live stage!" Indeed, and they let a police car onto a live stage in rally Deutschland this year as well, though we heard nary a peep about that from our industrious rally journalists.

Corruption at its very best. I hate this sort of thing, I really do.

If you need any more proof that the only thing that matters for getting onto the calendar is money and political influence, just look at the debacle of letting China into the calendar last year, or the fact that we still have Australia (they've apparently got money to burn) and no New Zealand, even though everyone actually would prefer the latter.

[Eli]

Hey, someone remind me, didn't a misplaced spectator actually die in Monte Carlo this year? Did they even get a 'yellow card' for that? No? But Poland loses its place in the calendar for bad spectator behavior?

"No!", you say, "it was because the organizers were stupid and allowed a fire truck to go onto a live stage!" Indeed, and they let a police car onto a live stage in rally Deutschland this year as well, though we heard nary a peep about that from our industrious rally journalists.

Corruption at its very best. I hate this sort of thing, I really do.

If you need any more proof that the only thing that matters for getting onto the calendar is money and political influence, just look at the debacle of letting China into the calendar last year, or the fact that we still have Australia (they've apparently got money to burn) and no New Zealand, even though everyone actually would prefer the latter.

As they say these days: "Money Talks" & unfortunately here we see the result...I agree they should have at least given a yellow card or something at least so the organizers try and make an effort to improve the safety on both MC & Germany events. As for Australia & NZ, it annoys me that from 2013 Australia has taken over the spot and tbh with Coffs Harbour having agreed to host the rally until 2020 makes it a strong candidate to stay beyond next year at the expense of NZ, especially when you have the teams complaining they can't go to Australasia twice....

Another thing that bothered me was the fact they bring in Turkey with all that's going on there solely because they have the money...but no talks of Greece coming back? It used to be one of the toughest events on the calendar and a real car breaker... Now I know they had, well still have some hard financial times there but you would at least expect one of the (old) classic events (or at least one that could become a classic once more) to be given another look by both promoter and the FIA but again, money talks... or more specifically lack of money in this case.

[Simmi]

Selfishly hoping the Italian round stays in Sardinia for at least one more season. Not managed to get there yet and it's on my list for 2018.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sardegna on the island is a must! Loved it this year.

Cannot wait for Turkey, I'll be there!

Boo re Australia and no NZ. Balls.

[AndyRAC]

As expected Poland is dropped, and Turkey is in; pretty uninspiring in my opinion. NZ is criminally ignored, in favour of an anaemic Australian event. And bizarrely, Rally of GB is moved forward to early October. What's that about? It's meant to be a late autumn event, with the chance of seasonal (frost, ice, etc) weather.

[rallye-vid]

And bizarrely, Rally of GB is moved forward to early October. What's that about?

Has something to do with the british rally championship (including it into the wrc run)

[turves]

looks like half term week next year then I'll be taking my boy to Spain instead of Wales...

[Simmi]

Rally of GB is moved forward to early October. What's that about? It's meant to be a late autumn event, with the chance of seasonal (frost, ice, etc) weather.

We don't want anything to do with ice on GB. If they couldn't handle it 10 years ago they certainly won't now.

I did think it was an interesting move though. I can't imagine the organisers were pushing for it - moving the event outside the school holidays. Happy to be proved wrong but I also doubt the addition of the BRC caused the move. This date switch was rumoured a while ago.

[Eli]

Hopefully the 2019 season will present us something better ;) (ehm New Zealand ehm)

[AnttiL]

Next year the tarmac rounds will be spread quite evenly around the calendar instead of having two of them back to back.

[Duvel]

Next year the tarmac rounds will be spread quite evenly around the calendar instead of having two of them back to back.


But stil i think there should be one extra tarmac event. Was kind of hoping Croatia would be in for 2018 instead of Turkey. Croatia could be partly tarmac, partly gravel than.

I would prefer rally Italia stays on Sardinia, nice event for spectators-crews-views,... Why do some of you want san remo so bad?

Also more fan of New zealand than Australia

[Eli]

Next year the tarmac rounds will be spread quite evenly around the calendar instead of having two of them back to back.

Still though, IMHO it would be nice to see the RACC back to full tarmac as it was up until 2010. If any round should host a mixed event is Sanremo....as it used to until 1997 and take away the island rally of Sardenga.

[the sniper]

looks like half term week next year then I'll be taking my boy to Spain instead of Wales...
I did think it was an interesting move though. I can't imagine the organisers were pushing for it - moving the event outside the school holidays. Happy to be proved wrong but I also doubt the addition of the BRC caused the move. This date switch was rumoured a while ago.

Selfishly I was delighted by this, where I work we have allocated block annual leave and limitations on floating days... Getting half term off for Rally GB this year has been a right faff, and in the end, a rather expensive experience!

As for the calender, surely we have to presume that Turkey are only on it because they're bringing big money to the promoter. I've seen it said that we should be accepting of the likes of Turkey and Croatia because the funds they bring to the promoter will be reinvested into the sport... Well, we better see some meaningful enhancement of the WRC 'product' next year, because right now I want to argue that a 2018 inclusion of Rally New Zealand on the calender should have been at least partially funded by the money coming from Turkey! I hope someone will be able to discern where the Turkey money has gone...

[AnttiL]

Still though, IMHO it would be nice to see the RACC back to full tarmac as it was up until 2010. If any round should host a mixed event is Sanremo....as it used to until 1997 and take away the island rally of Sardenga.

Catalunya was mixed when it first came to the WRC in 1991. It became all tarmac in 1993. Portugal used to have tarmac stages back in the day as well.

If Sardegna goes away, I'd like to see Acropolis or some other slower, rougher rally.

[Eli]

Catalunya was mixed when it first came to the WRC in 1991. It became all tarmac in 1993. Portugal used to have tarmac stages back in the day as well.

If Sardegna goes away, I'd like to see Acropolis or some other slower, rougher rally.

My bad, still would be nice to have it back to Tarmac and some night stages in the mix!!

Yes Acropolis Rally of Greece would definitely would be a welcome return and if not Greece, Cyprus? used to be a real car breaker back in 2000-2006.

[ToKu]

No round in Eastern Europe makes pretty sense...

Let's ignore a region where rallies are still quite popular (IMHO), and see if it helps the sport. If that was really the reason I would at least say that they are trying another approach...

[Eli]

No round in Eastern Europe makes pretty sense...

Let's ignore a region where rallies are still quite popular (IMHO), and see if it helps the sport. If that was really the reason I would at least say that they are trying another approach...

We'll see what happens after next year, I have a feeling that with 13 (now 12) events wanting to join the calendar, there will be some changes come 2019 & beyond.

[BleAivano]

A NZ columnist gives his opinion about why there should be a WRC-rally in NZ. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11925472

[AndyRAC]

Agree with everything he says!!

[jparker]

Agree with everything he says!!
I don't.
Why two events down under?
Because of Paddon?
FIA has no obligation to stimulate rallying.
It should be the other way around.
Only countries that have world rally champion should be admitet to WRC Calendar, plus one from each continent.
Here is the list:
England
Finland
France
Germany
Italy
Norway
Scotland
Spain
Sweden
North America
South America
Africa
Asia
Australia

[mArvAlcao17]

I don't.
Why two events down under?
Because of Paddon?
FIA has no obligation to stimulate rallying.
It should be the other way around.
Only countries that have world rally champion should be admitet to WRC Calendar, plus one from each continent.
Here is the list:
England
Finland
France
Germany
Italy
Norway
Scotland
Spain
Sweden
North America
South America
Africa
Asia
Australia

well, i don't. But still, as Asian, i really want to see some Asian rally in WRC like India or China (not yet for my homeland, Indonesia. Still long way to go)

[mArvAlcao17]

And, of course, WRC rallies are chosen because of manufacturers pressure

[Rally Power]

FIA has no obligation to stimulate rallying.


Actually it has. The lack of FIA’s effective support to local ASN’s and even to the FIA regional series has been one of the reasons why worldwide rally expansion is stuck in reverse.

Btw, I’m amazed with your exclusive ‘champions club’ view on WRC calendar. So just because there’s a WRC crowned compatriot, some lucky organizers would be granted for life, without any need to improve their events...that looks like a recipe to ruin the series.

Btw, should Belgium get a spot in the calendar if Neuville manages to be champ?

[dupanton]

Btw, should Belgium get a spot in the calendar if Neuville manages to be champ?

They could organise a WRC Rally without a problem. There could be stages in France too. Organisation is not the problem, money probably is. Otherwise there would have been a WRC in Ypres already (giving that the organizers of Ypres Rally are at the top of Hyundai WRT)

[raybak]

I don't.
Why two events down under?
Because of Paddon?
FIA has no obligation to stimulate rallying.
It should be the other way around.
Only countries that have world rally champion should be admitet to WRC Calendar, plus one from each continent.
Here is the list:
England
Finland
France
Germany
Italy
Norway
Scotland
Spain
Sweden
North America
South America
Africa
Asia
Australia

What about Antarctica, it's a continent.

[electroliquid]

What about Antarctica, it's a continent.

I think it's an option. Sweden lacks of snow recently, maybe there is enough of it. And lots of spectators, if we count penguins.

[jparker]

Actually it has. The lack of FIA’s effective support to local ASN’s and even to the FIA regional series has been one of the reasons why worldwide rally expansion is stuck in reverse.
FIA alone can't build strong interest in rallying. Promoting WRC outside of Europe is pointless.


Btw, I’m amazed with your exclusive ‘champions club’ view on WRC calendar. So just because there’s a WRC crowned compatriot, some lucky organizers would be granted for life, without any need to improve their events...that looks like a recipe to ruin the series.
Tell me one champion that comes from country without strong rally presence?


Btw, should Belgium get a spot in the calendar if Neuville manages to be champ?
Why not?

Having this rule in place will stimulate other countries to invest in rallying more than anything else. Instead of praying FIA to accep them, it's all in their hands.

[N.O.T]

Only countries that have world rally champion should be admitet to WRC Calendar, plus one from each continent.


Does your family know of your condition ? or you express it only in this forum ? there is help you know... it will not do much but could be an improvement from what you are going through now...

[nafpaktos]

Only countries that have world rally champion should be admitet to WRC Calendar, plus one from each continent.


Wow very radical approach.You can send a letter to fia to consider this constructive thought.

[GravelBen]

FIA alone can't build strong interest in rallying. Promoting WRC outside of Europe is pointless.


You are obviously clueless about how popular rallying is in places like NZ and Argentina.

[sollitt]

A NZ columnist gives his opinion about why there should be a WRC-rally in NZ. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11925472A junior motoring hack prone to scribing emotive nonsense and whose knowledge of rallying is so limited that he's clearly never heard of Jorge Recalde.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Rally Turkey will be organised by TOSFED. Thought I would check out the TOSFED website and discovered the last round of Turkish Rally Championship was postponed due to a lack of entries. Meanwhile in NZ it was announced today we have 80 entries for next round of our National Champs.
http://www.tosfed.org.tr/haberler/4255/kaynasli-rallikros-ertelendi

[pantealex]

Rally Turkey will be organised by TOSFED. Thought I would check out the TOSFED website and discovered the last round of Turkish Rally Championship was postponed due to a lack of entries. Meanwhile in NZ it was announced today we have 80 entries for next round of our National Champs.
http://www.tosfed.org.tr/haberler/4255/kaynasli-rallikros-ertelendi

How many of those 80 are FIA legal cars ?
(note evo9 is no more FIA legal)

I know that NZ is great rally country but in my mind your rallycars are way too old, even superstar Paddon is still using old model i20.

[N.O.T]

Rally Turkey will be organised by TOSFED. Thought I would check out the TOSFED website and discovered the last round of Turkish Rally Championship was postponed due to a lack of entries. Meanwhile in NZ it was announced today we have 80 entries for next round of our National Champs.
http://www.tosfed.org.tr/haberler/4255/kaynasli-rallikros-ertelendi

local village nobodies have very little part in making a desicion if a round should be included or not...

I think you should focus more on how to get your event back in the calendar than cry little butthurt babies over spilled milk...

[tommeke_B]

@N.O.T, from what I heard everything was there to get the event on the calendar. A few months ago it seemed to be a done deal... It seems like FIA is not interested as long as Australia is on the calendar, claiming the logistic costs for the teams would be too big. I know you like to get rid of your frustrations on this forum, but calling people "little butthurt babies" isn't really appropriate and missing the point this time. It's hard to be not frustrated when you see NZ being denied a chance, while an event that's both unproven and unpopular is chosen to be on the calendar next year. It happened with China already, now again with Turkey...

[N.O.T]

@N.O.T, from what I heard everything was there to get the event on the calendar. A few months ago it seemed to be a done deal... It seems like FIA is not interested as long as Australia is on the calendar, claiming the logistic costs for the teams would be too big. I know you like to get rid of your frustrations on this forum, but calling people "little butthurt babies" isn't really appropriate and missing the point this time. It's hard to be not frustrated when you see NZ being denied a chance, while an event that's both unproven and unpopular is chosen to be on the calendar next year. It happened with China already, now again with Turkey...

Well the point is Turkey is far more lucrative as a market than NZ... the roads in turkey are sh it compared to those in NZ and as a rally tukrey has nothing to offer more than NZ... but the manufacturers are doing this to sell cars not to drive on beautiful roads.

So they will keep choosing events based on marketing instead of other useless reasons like village entries and beautiful roads and scenery...

life is like that nowadays, it does not matter if you agree or not.

[aykutbilir]

Rally Turkey will be organised by TOSFED. Thought I would check out the TOSFED website and discovered the last round of Turkish Rally Championship was postponed due to a lack of entries. Meanwhile in NZ it was announced today we have 80 entries for next round of our National Champs.
http://www.tosfed.org.tr/haberler/4255/kaynasli-rallikros-ertelendi

Im sorry but it is a rallycross event not a rally :)
And it is postponed because a week later there is a bigger event.

So do not try to compare Turkey and NZ events please


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[[RMC]Pip]

Turkey has some really nice places so the scenery shouldn't be a problem - I really liked the feeling of the event when it was part of the calender. More worrying is the political climate. But I guess it's a place where manus want to promote their brand and sell cars - and it's a huge country.

[giu canbera]

Would the "ideal" schedule be MC, Swe, Portugal, Safari, Corse, Acropolis, NZ, Arg, Finland, NZ, SanRemo, D'Ivoire, RACC & GB?

[aykutbilir]

Would the "ideal" schedule be MC, Swe, Portugal, Safari, Corse, Acropolis, NZ, Arg, Finland, NZ, SanRemo, D'Ivoire, RACC & GB?

Two NZ will be radical :))


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[GravelBen]

Two NZ will be radical :))

One North Island, one South Island! :D