[WRC] WRC Rally Sweden 2018 - February 15-18:

[HaCo]

Ogier still at the start.

[dimviii]

LOL Ogier will start after Neuville to have the best road?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hearing Ogier to start with a 50s penalty.

[EstWRC]

Mikkelsen all over the place like always

[er88]

Mads cant really have done much better for his first C3 drive. Hope he gets some more as he's always good to watch.He won't unless he pays

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[HaCo]

that little corner is so tricky there!

Yeah... the whole stage looks tricky at the moment. Fingers crossed for TN!

[PLuto]

Hearing Ogier to start with a 50s penalty.

I have seen they gave him 50s penalty. But this is nonsense, he arrived 25 mins later to TC. Also nonsense is his starting position after Neuville as he should start after Paddon (with his real penalty).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame every single PS finale of every rally is spoiled by having Desborough on comms. :(

[HaCo]

Neuville in the stage...

[Mintexmemory]

I have seen they gave him 50s penalty. But this is nonsense, he arrived 25 mins later to TC. Also nonsense is his starting position after Neuville as he should start after Paddon (with his real penalty).
Eat it up - you can’t invent new road penalty rules ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabulous rally by Craig Breen.. superb performance.

[HaCo]

Fantastic drive of Breen; great!

[dimviii]

lol


SUN 13:08 - SS19: WEATHER UPDATE
Heavy snow falling now

[KKS]

Well done Craig!!! Good rally!

[stefanvv]

More and more looks like a demonstration from Ogier.

[er88]

Mikkelsen all over the place like alwaysSurprised he's not been able to be a bit more pacey considering his road position, and being beaten by Breen on basically his "home" rally. However, he needed points after the Monte disaster and now has them which is great to see for his championship.

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[Mintexmemory]

More and more looks like a demonstration from Ogier.

Just like Great Orme in 2011!!

[er88]

Brilliant from Breen, proper drive from him. Shame he's not meant to contest the next TWO rallies....

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[seb_sh]

It's snowing quite heavily, Ogier's tactic might backfire!

Otherwise I don't see a problem, he will get a penalty as per the rules.

[HaCo]

F a n t a s t i c !!!! :d :d :d

[ESTR]

Brilliant from Breen, proper drive from him. Shame he's not meant to contest the next TWO rallies....

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If they can't make an exception now they are fools... As we already know. Craig need show more like that performances so other team maybe he will show interest in him and his consistency

[er88]

Where is Seb?

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[cali]

Great rally for Breen and Ostberg. Really glad for these guys.

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[EstWRC]

great Neuville...now you can draw your amazing fast lines for everyone in Mexico!

[theracingelf]

Where is Seb?

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On the stage!

[A FONDO]

It's snowing quite heavily, Ogier's tactic might backfire!

Otherwise I don't see a problem, he will get a penalty as per the rules.

Yeah indeed, I've been thinking "What if he starts just behind someone who crasahes and blocks the road :D "

[PLuto]

All live plays game with Ogier and completely ignores him ;)

[seb_sh]

Too bad they are not showing Ogier on full atack :|

Edit: he got 2nd on the PS, looks like it payed off

[Fast Eddie WRC]

PS points announced so no Ogier ?

[Myrvold]

Impressive "sportsmanship" anyway. Though I like it, clever move. And I'd be not surprised if he didn't start at all and is sending message about the road cleaning that way.

Ye, it would've been awesome if everyone would just do this every time they feel they won't get the best conditions. Then rally would be awesome. People just queuing outside a TC to not run first! But hey, if he dislikes Sweden so much, he is free to not come here. I would honestly not miss his every year moaning here :)


Eat it up - you can’t invent new road penalty rules ;)

I thought it was 10 seconds pr.minute late. That would be 250 seconds, not 50.

[dimviii]

edit mistake

[jonkka]

PS points announced so no Ogier ?

Announced on TV != final attribution.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier 2nd on PS !

[itix]

Hugely impressed by Breen. Mexico is too late because the entires have already closed, but surely, they could put him in a car for Corsica.
Congrats also to Neuville for a great win!

Let's see the aftermath of Ogier's antics. 2nd on PS thus far.

[Augury]

Ogier slotted in second, +1.3 to Lappi.

[Myrvold]

Too bad they are not showing Ogier on full atack :|

Edit: he got 2nd on the PS, looks like it payed off

What's so bad with that? It's better to ignore the guy imo.

[Huufke]

All live plays game with Ogier and completely ignores him ;)

They are playing games with their audience. Us. And this is not the first time. Very bad.

[macebig]

And kept 10th from Elfyn, so 5 points total. Sneaky Frenchman spoils the party...

[itix]

Also impressed by Takamoto for beating Tidemand on his home ground. 4.5 seconds.
I really thought he wasn't anything special. I'll have to reevaluate now...

[jonkka]

Can someone check regulations for Power Stage? Can any team score points or only the top 12 selected?

Teams do not score PS points, only drivers.

[PLuto]

Ye, it would've been awesome if everyone would just do this every time they feel they won't get the best conditions. Then rally would be awesome. People just queuing outside a TC to not run first! But hey, if he dislikes Sweden so much, he is free to not come here. I would honestly not miss his every year moaning here :)



I thought it was 10 seconds pr.minute late. That would be 250 seconds, not 50.

Yes, it should be. We will see if they will correct it.

[er88]

Msport Ford bottom of the manufacturers championship.

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[seb_sh]

What's so bad with that? It's better to ignore the guy imo.

Because I prefer to see the WDC pushing on the last stage to win it. It's part of the rally, the PS awards so many points that it's worth sacrificing your position then I think maybe the rules are not quite right?

[J_n_z]

Ogier is damage limitation master, good job... Tanak missed opportunity to do the same this time.

[Mintexmemory]

Yes, it should be. We will see if they will correct it.

Either way it doesnt matter -MS still get 10th place point and Seb turns 1 into 4. Chapeau a l’artist

[dimviii]

no interview from Ogier at wrc live text.

[itix]

Does anyone have the drivers championship points now?

[N.O.T]

either way it doesnt matter -ms still get 10th place point and seb turns 1 into 4. Chapeau a l’artist

lol

[Myrvold]

Because I prefer to see the WDC pushing on the last stage to win it. It's part of the rally, the PS awards so many points that it's worth sacrificing your position then I think maybe the rules are not quite right?

You can't change the rules in any way to remove this possibility though. As you cannot have rules that e.g say "Drivers to late to TC before Power Stage will not be able to score Power Stage points". This will cause issues if there are mech.issues, someone have gone off on the earlier stage and blocked the road etc.
You could have all the other drivers team up and just stay behind Ogier and waiting it out. That would however be a massive farce and just spitting in the face of the fans...

When anyone decides to just ignore the rules, ignore any kind of sportsmanship and seemingly not accepting that this is a sport that happens outdoor. Then I am fine with him being ignored by the TV-Crews and media. Especially as no-one seems to be able to dare to ask him any critical questions. Or at least ask him what would make him happy in Sweden, as he have complained about every single little thing that happens here.

[KKS]

Ogier checking in later to have more favourable position. Very clever move!
Dumb move as Ogier is. He try bring f1 dumbness to such a great sport like rallying.

[dimviii]

Does anyone have the drivers championship points now?

Neuville 42 pts
Ogier 27 pts
Latvala 24 pts
Mikkelsen 22 pts
Tanak 22 pts
Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Meeke 17 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Ostberg 6 pt


ps i copied it from a French forum,hope is right,didnt checked it.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Teams do not score PS points, only drivers. Sorry, I meant to write crew, not team. My post now irrelevant as it seems Ogier did receive PS points.

[EightGear]

Neuville 42 pts
Ogier 27 pts
Latvala 24 pts
Mikkelsen 22 pts
Tanak 22 pts
Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Meeke 17 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Ostberg 6 ptLol so he's still second on the road.

[ESTR]

Ogier is damage limitation master, good job... Tanak missed opportunity to do the same this time.

But consider it that way. For mexico, Tanak will get better road position on first day.

[KKS]

Radstrom defend his lead from Bergkvist in JWRC

[theracingelf]

Not an Ogier fan but this was just simply very clever and well executed. Those 4 extra points can make the difference at the end of the season, well played Seb.

[kamei]

Neuville 42 pts
Ogier 27 pts
Latvala 24 pts
Mikkelsen 22 pts
Tanak 22 pts
Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Meeke 17 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Ostberg 6 pt

This is wrong. Must be:

1. Neuville 41
2. Ogier 30
3. JML 23
4. Lappi 23
5. Tanak 21
6. Mikkelsen 21
7. Breen 20

[jparker]

Pity for Paddon, he needed this boost of confidence, but what a monstrous drive by Lappi. Hats off to him.
Even without the mistake, Paddon wouldn't be able to save the 3 secs gap.
@EstWRC, you got your prediction right.

[steve.mandzij]

Neuville 42 pts
Ogier 27 pts
Latvala 24 pts
Mikkelsen 22 pts
Tanak 22 pts
Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Meeke 17 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Ostberg 6 pt


ps i copied it from a French forum,hope is right,didnt checked it.I'm not sure that's correct. Didn't Ogier get 25 in Monte and 4 here in PS?

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[dimviii]

Lol so he's still second on the road.

without the 4points would be 3rd on the road,behind Latvala.

[AnttiL]

This is wrong. Must be:

1. Neuville 41
2. Ogier 31 or 30
3. JML 23
4. Lappi 23
5. Tanak 21
6. Mikkelsen 21
7. Breen 20

Ogier should have 31. 26 From Monte, 1 from 10th place and 4 PS points.

[steve.mandzij]

This is wrong. Must be:

1. Neuville 41
2. Ogier 31 or 30
3. JML 23
4. Lappi 23
5. Tanak 21
6. Mikkelsen 21
7. Breen 20Latvala seems pleased with his new leftover points plan for the year, but he's just barely holding on to that third place. He'll need to pick up the pace for Mexico D:

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[dimviii]

Neuville 41 pts

Ogier 31pts

Latvala 23 pts

Lappi 23 pts

Tanak 21 pts

Mikkelsen 21 pts

Breen 20 pts

Meeke 17 pts

Paddon 10 pts

Evans 8 pts


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWUWl3RX0AEI0-B.jpg

[kamei]

Ogier should have 31. 26 From Monte, 1 from 10th place and 4 PS points.

No. Ogier is 11th overall so he should have 30.

[Eli]

No. Ogier is 11th overall so he should have 30.

Yep that's correct.

[Oliverk]

Good guy Ogier. Took all the snowflakes hate away from Tänak.

[Eli]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2018/sweden-breaking/page/5231--12-12-.html
Here you go, you can see the points & everything here.

[PLuto]

They have corrected penalty for Ogier. But instead of giving 4:10, in results is 4:15 :D

[dimviii]

SUN 13:43 - OGIER UPDATE
The champion comes clean on the Power Stage mystery. "It was a team strategy. From our place in the order we had no chance. We tried to play a bit and get an acceptable position. On the Power Stage I made a few mistakes, I wasn't used to so much grip, but finally we archived out objective and took some points."

[kamei]

MSport played a gamble to lose one point but have the chance to score 3-4 points... Ogier gave it all in PS.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Some of you have so big pain in the ass because of Ogier... He's best package and a clever one. Deal with it...

[A FONDO]

without the 4points would be 3rd on the road,behind Latvala.

:laugh:

[dimviii]

:laugh:

its wrong obviously,it was based at wrong points table i copied.

[N.O.T]

The fact that Ogier cares too much about road position is that he knows he does not have the speed to compete with the other guys anymore... a few years back he would still complain but he would not resort to tactics because he knew he was the fastest.

[EstWRC]

Tänak has a brilliant starting position for Mexico.


And Meeke without points this time isn’t actually far away from others.

[Myrvold]

Some of you have so big pain in the ass because of Ogier... He's best package and a clever one. Deal with it...

I am not able to respect the guy, as he is constantly complaining about anything and everything.
I do highly respect his skills as a driver though. He is one hell of a talent and great driver!

[A FONDO]

its wrong obviously,it was based at wrong points table i copied.

Well, he won Monte Carlo just a few days ago, he obviously has at least 25 points so he obviously is above Latvala no matter what happens in Sweden.

[denkimi]

SUN 13:43 - OGIER UPDATE
The champion comes clean on the Power Stage mystery. "It was a team strategy. From our place in the order we had no chance. We tried to play a bit and get an acceptable position. On the Power Stage I made a few mistakes, I wasn't used to so much grip, but finally we archived out objective and took some points."
Even when he has the advantage, he tries to claim the opposite.

[steve.mandzij]

I'm excited for Neuville's moans about the "whules" being unfair in the "whace" :D

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[Rally Hokkaido]

Manufacturers championship is interesting and close. Hyundai went from last to first in one event!
Edit: And M-sport Ford in the opposite direction!!

[Sulland]

Also impressed by Takamoto for beating Tidemand on his home ground. 4.5 seconds.
I really thought he wasn't anything special. I'll have to reevaluate now...

Both the japanese drivers impressed on ice. But they owe some of the success to Pirelli.
but I think Tommi have coached thrm on the white stuff before sweden. That payed off!

[bassist]

"On the Power Stage I made a few mistakes, I wasn't used to so much grip, but finally we archived out objective and took some points."

Priceless, can't fault him.

[A FONDO]

Hyundai 14 + 40 = 54
Toyota 33 + 20 = 53
Citroen 18 + 28 = 46
Ford 33 + 10 = 43

https://i.imgur.com/nVlxHVc.jpg

[N.O.T]

Greatest championship in decades !!!

[dimviii]

Greatest championship in decades !!!

Neuville fan?

[er88]

Ott has been the most impressive Toyota driver yet is behind Jari and Lappi in the standings. However I'm sure he's pretty content (once he gets the frustration of this weekend out of his mind), as he goes to Mexico with a better road position.

Tanak, Mikkelsen, Meeke and Loeb the early favourites? Loeb has been clever in choosing his rallies this year, 3 rallies where the car worked well last season and a good road position for Mexico and Spain. Plus, the C3 has improved since last year too...

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[AnttiL]

.

Tanak, Mikkelsen, Meeke and Loeb the early favourites?

Sordo. Evans?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Clever move by Ogier IMO and I cant blame him for trying to get some advantage on a rally that has otherwise hugely disadvantaged him.

I wonder if a world champion and championship leader has ever scored so poorly through no fault of their own ? They may as well have handicapped Ogier by one less rally to give the others a chance.

I think Rally Sweden will be referenced a lot for the rest of the season.

[ESTR]

Ott has been the most impressive Toyota driver yet is behind Jari and Lappi in the standings. However I'm sure he's pretty content (once he gets the frustration of this weekend out of his mind), as he goes to Mexico with a better road position.

Tanak, Mikkelsen, Meeke and Loeb the early favourites? Loeb has been clever in choosing his rallies this year, 3 rallies where the car worked well last season and a good road position for Mexico and Spain. Plus, the C3 has improved since last year too...

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Maybe Cit. needs to re-consider again and let Mads drive a few more rallies. He was amazing despite his low mileage in that crappy car. And moving from side to side like crazy and set some amazing times. And most importantly without a crash even on a Colin's crest he survive twice and jump furthest of all (again twice). And what Meeke do? No pace from two rallies (except that ps on Monte) and here destroy any chances of any point whatsoever. Craig is superb and deserves full year but it is how it is. They just want to lose again...

[jparker]

Some of you have so big pain in the ass because of Ogier... He's best package and a clever one. Deal with it...

To whom are you replying? I guess to your own disappointment. Get use to it ...

[Eli]

Have to say, really like the fact that the Manu. Champ. seems to be up for grabs this year, 11 points seperating the 4 teams, even Citroen are there in the mix with that C3....Speaking of Citroen, what a drive by Craig!!! Truely deserved, hope that next time he'll be on the podium, he'll be on the top spot, Citroen clearly need to put him in the car for Corsica & Catalunya. Seems like we're in for one hell of a season...better than the last. It's a good thing Tanak left M-Sport, makes it that much more exciting, and with Mikkelsen now added to the mix, should be a pretty special season. As for Ogier, imho it was sportsmanship like at all...but I won't get in to that much as you guys already opened a thread for that. M-Sport clearly need Teemu for more than 8 rounds this year (7 after this), he's shown that he's mature and able to pick up good points and that's after only 3 rallies in the car, I'm sure by the time we get to the half-way point of the season he'll grab his first podium. Congrats for Hyundai & Co. after a difficult Monte, hope all teams can keep it up so we'll have a fascinating fight on our hand.

[stefanvv]

Seems there is some overhype over Breen's performance. I think he has always did well in Sweden, in fact one of the 2 wrc rallies he had '14 was in Sweden. But not undermining his performance after all, he did great job. Of course it will be Citroen's decision to give him more chances, if they have the money (perhaps) I don't see obstacles Breen to do full season.

[denkimi]

Maybe Cit. needs to re-consider again and let Mads drive a few more rallies. He was amazing despite his low mileage in that crappy car. And moving from side to side like crazy and set some amazing times. And most importantly without a crash even on a Colin's crest he survive twice and jump furthest of all (again twice). And what Meeke do? No pace from two rallies (except that ps on Monte) and here destroy any chances of any point whatsoever. Craig is superb and deserves full year but it is how it is. They just want to lose again...
Don't expect mads to do so well on other surfaces, snow is his home territory.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier's PS onboard is available on WRC+... nobody waiting for him at stage end.

[wrc2017]

Ogier's PS onboard is available on WRC+... nobody waiting for him at stage end.
2nd on road in mexico. dont think it was worth the effort. he will be complaining there too

[Myrvold]

Ogier's PS onboard is available on WRC+... nobody waiting for him at stage end.

Just as it should be.

[wrc2017]

Maybe Cit. needs to re-consider again and let Mads drive a few more rallies. He was amazing despite his low mileage in that crappy car. And moving from side to side like crazy and set some amazing times. And most importantly without a crash even on a Colin's crest he survive twice and jump furthest of all (again twice). And what Meeke do? No pace from two rallies (except that ps on Monte) and here destroy any chances of any point whatsoever. Craig is superb and deserves full year but it is how it is. They just want to lose again...

neither citroen had pace on monte. meeke was generally on ogiers pace fri and sat, less so tanaks, but these 3 were running 8th, 9th and 10th. breens pace was very good, with the obvious benefit of road position. top 3 cleared snow.. next 3 made tracks.. next lot were on rails... especially fri. meeke, ogier, evans etc are not 1-2s/km slower... maybe 1 or 2 10ths in a straight fight.

ostberg performace was below what i was expecting given his road position. he wanted to change to his own setup saturday, and sure he complained about that. i dont think he adds that much.

cant wait to see Meeke and Loeb on Mexico... or better still Corsica.. there could be a massive battle between those 2.

[PLuto]

It looks like comedy of M-Sport continues. Evans 26 mins later to TC19A...

[Myrvold]

It looks like comedy of M-Sport continues. Evans 26 mins later to TC19A...

... I understand why, and even more so when it's a fight for a title etc. I am not against team orders, I think it is a part of the game. However, when they decide themselves to take a penalty for driver A to get an advantage, then they choose to take a penalty on driver B to negate issues from Driver A it's just mocking the sport.

[er88]

ESTR, realistically Mads won't fight for rally wins in many other rounds due to the huge competition we now have in WRC. Citroen have their budget locked in, and aren't going to pay for him to do more rallies based on a 6th place finish on basically his "home" rally, where he also had a very good road position. Realistically you'd be looking only at events like Argentina/ Portugal and Sardinia where Mads would have a chance at bettering that 6th place.

Sure id like him to do more rounds, the more cars the better. And I know he only had a day of testing and did well considering that, but unless he helps pay for a drive and brings budget he won't get any imo.
The more pressing matter for Citroen is to get Breen in the car for Corsica and Spain (sadly Mexico is too late I'm presuming). And also to keep up the development work on the C3 so they are in a position to fight seriously for titles in 2019, and attract another quality driver if they've shown their car is good enough.

[SubaruNorway]

My Rally Sweden video is finished!
Never been so tired before, lets pray for a bit less snow next year!
Managed to miss Tideman's off on shakedown as i was climbing a tree to remove a branch, but got the three others at the same spot!

https://youtu.be/qIsoAPZRcZg

[Salist]

Nice video, many thanks for sharing!

[Myrvold]

Never been so tired before, lets pray for a bit less snow next year!


Maybe less in Oppland, but as I am trying to get a guy from New Zealand over to Norway next winter, I'd like just as much snow in the rally area :)

[hari]

Some pictures: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_schweden_2018.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/schweden/bestof/1.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/schweden/bestof3/1.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/schweden/bestof3/2.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/schweden/bestof4/3.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/schweden/bestof2/3.jpg

[mknight]

... I understand why, and even more so when it's a fight for a title etc. I am not against team orders, I think it is a part of the game. However, when they decide themselves to take a penalty for driver A to get an advantage, then they choose to take a penalty on driver B to negate issues from Driver A it's just mocking the sport.

Some people were accusing Hyundai on Sunday in Argentina that Paddons "brake issues" were not real.

However, this sets a whole new level and I do not like it much. With most teams having 3 cars it could turn into a proper competition in rule-bending very fast.

[Watson]

To whom are you replying? I guess to your own disappointment. Get use to it ...
You got so quiet by the last third of last season. Now M-Sport has one poor rally after 14 events with all podium results, the most wins, the most winners and three titles and you are back barking your sorry song. It's sure a pleasure to see you back dude.

[steve.mandzij]

Sordo. Evans?Sordo will probably just pick up points and languish in 6th. Evans is a huge question mark though. He was extremely off the pace, without counting his puncture, and if I recall correctly he was behind Neuville in the running order. Those Dmacks did wonders for him.

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[Myrvold]

However, this sets a whole new level and I do not like it much. With most teams having 3 cars it could turn into a proper competition in rule-bending very fast.

Rally version of DTM... That all ended with Audi pulling all their cars out of a race in 2007 after the Mercs trying to take out Audis champ.contenders.

[Salist]

Nice job again Harald. Thanks.


Some pictures: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_schweden_2018.html

[Watson]

Sordo will probably just pick up points and languish in 6th. Evans is a huge question mark though. He was extremely off the pace, without counting his puncture, and if I recall correctly he was behind Neuville in the running order. Those Dmacks did wonders for him.

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I am very disappointed with Evans so far but in his defence the Dmacks were most likely inferior on asphalt, snow and most gravel events too. They designed the tyres to get wins in Argentina and Wales, not for overall strong performance.

Also, Monte and Sweden are freak events and if you don't get the balance of the car on point you will lack confidence and be awfully slow. The proof of his actual strength will be in Mexico and the gravel events after TdC.

[ESTR]

Some people were accusing Hyundai on Sunday in Argentina that Paddons "brake issues" were not real.

However, this sets a whole new level and I do not like it much. With most teams having 3 cars it could turn into a proper competition in rule-bending very fast.

Hyundai said that they are here to win the titles, not to please the drivers. And if Thierry would need to back off they will probably tell him to do that. Well drivers are employers and that's it.

[mknight]

Rally version of DTM... That all ended with Audi pulling all their cars out of a race in 2007 after the Mercs trying to take out Audis champ.contenders.

Well at least that's not possible on rally stages.... ohh wait (*looks at Meeke*)

[wrc2017]

Well at least that's not possible on rally stages.... ohh wait (*looks at Meeke*)

can you fill in the gaps? I dont know what you are saying?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

.@ElfynEvans has time penalty at final control of @RallySweden so @SebOgier moves from 11th to 10th pos in overall standings and gains an extra point. https://t.co/WILkaVZPHy

[danon]

^
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/PrimroseSue/ALF/Alf3-1.jpg

[ESTR]

.@ElfynEvans has time penalty at final control of @RallySweden so @SebOgier moves from 11th to 10th pos in overall standings and gains an extra point. https://t.co/WILkaVZPHy

Well can't wait to see that crying faces of all, seb, evans, m-sport, ford when Neuville will end all of this playing.

[stefanvv]

The proof of his actual strength will be in Mexico and the gravel events after TdC.

Why do You think he will under-perform in TdC. He is actually quite good on asphalt.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well can't wait to see that crying faces of all, seb, evans, m-sport, ford when Neuville will end all of this playing.

Bitter.

[Duvel]

Thats "smart" but isnt that a bit overeaction on only second event. Not a fan of such pratiks

[Tarmop]

Well can't wait to see that crying faces of all, seb, evans, m-sport, ford when Neuville will end all of this playing.

Well, firstly he (and everyone else ofc) has to finish. Saying that he will be WDC and everyone else are to blame for his mistakes, isn`t the real thing.
But good rally from him this weekend nevertheless, happy for Citroen and Breen, probably boosted their motivation quite a bit.

[olemann]

Now the wdc results look after 2 rounds more normal. Many possibilities in the end, none of the favorites are really hooked.

[N.O.T]

no surprise what evans did... the welsh are the best lap dogs in the world.

[Tarmop]

But didn`t he fail in that? Can`t see the point in that, apart from a real reason or a miscalculation. :D

[stefanvv]

Since we're in "dog" mode, what the greek dogs are good at?

[KKS]

It looks like comedy of M-Sport continues. Evans 26 mins later to TC19A...
If you don't know how drop your reputation - just invite some french idiot to your team.
Malcolm completely lost his mind at old age.

[stefanvv]

If you don't know how drop your reputation - just invite some french idiot to your team.
Malcolm completely lost his mind at old age.

But Malcolm picked 2 tropheys last year. Isn't that what every team is fighting for?

[KKS]

But Malcolm picked 2 tropheys last year. Isn't that what every team is fighting for?
You can win by killing a sport. Is that what every team is fighting for? Nope, only one where one sick french be part of the team

[Watson]

Why do You think he will under-perform in TdC. He is actually quite good on asphalt.
I don't think he'll underperform at TdC, it is just not as representative an event as e.g. Mexico, Argentina and Portugal.

[Franky]

If you don't know how drop your reputation - just invite some french idiot to your team.
Malcolm completely lost his mind at old age.

Just refresh your memory. Malcolm has playing that kind of games for ages. Heck, they had even team orders on the first rally in 2004, when Duval was not allowed to retake the 2nd position from Märtin.

[Tarmop]

It was a protest, no rules broken and the one he did, he accepted his punishment.

[olemann]

Congratulations to Craig Breen. Had wanted Andreas Mikkelsen had been
made the CITROEN TOTAL ABU DHABI WRT, they could be a winner this year.

[stefanvv]

You can win by killing a sport. Is that what every team is fighting for?

But they didn't brake any rules, how's that killing the sport? Tactics and strategy has been always part of any sport, if something gives You advantage, You use it, if it's not forbidden of course, though we've seen plenty examples of the latter too, e.g. cars not complying with the rules, doping, etc.

[AnttiL]

Sordo will probably just pick up points and languish in 6th. Evans is a huge question mark though. He was extremely off the pace, without counting his puncture, and if I recall correctly he was behind Neuville in the running order. Those Dmacks did wonders for him.

Last year Evans had his engine swapped and that cost him a lot of time. He made a 2nd quickest time on the second Friday gravel stage. After that he had to sweep the road. Anyway, I'm not expecting much from Evans this year but this could be his chance.

Sordo also lost a bunch of time with technical problems last year but made some very good stage times, and seems to be good on this type of gravel events.

[Jakem]

So Msport made clear that only mission for Evans this year is to help secure Ogiers 6th title. Pffff...

[Mirek]

So Msport made clear that only mission for Evans this year is to help secure Ogiers 6th title. Pffff...

That's nothing unusual for the second driver...

[Mirek]

Didn't have time to follow the rally very closely except live timing on my phone and it took me two hours to read the forum from Friday night till now :D

Thanks everyone for photos, videos and any interesting information!

[Tarmop]

Again, do we know, what was the reason for that delay? Like protocol says, nothing changed in the overall classification. And yes, in the end there have been, are and always will be team strategies. In every team.

E: Saw the right protocol now and i was wrong.

[T16]

So Msport made clear that only mission for Evans this year is to help secure Ogiers 6th title. Pffff...
I assume you’ve only just started following rallying?
It’s perfectly normal, especially when it’s 99% more likely that one driver will out perform and our score the other during a year.

[EstWRC]

Evans has so far performed exactly like i expected....not better, not worse

[KKS]

But they didn't brake any rules, how's that killing the sport? Tactics and strategy has been always part of any sport, if something gives You advantage, You use it, if it's not forbidden of course, though we've seen plenty examples of the latter too, e.g. cars not complying with the rules, doping, etc.
They didn't brake rules - it's true. But they braking rally as a friendly sport, where all respect each other. You of course can bring f1 or other circuit racing spirit, where all hate each ohter, and their method of getting an advantage, but I think it's a wrong way for rallying.

BTW it's forbidden to fell the tree on the stage after your cars passing? No such article in rules, so when Malcolm will take up that "advantage"?

[Tarmop]

C`mon, it was just 1 point, Ogier was clearly faster than Evans and fought hard for that place. PS scheme also means that its tighter at the front, again, good for the sport. We saw that several drivers had to fight too hard for place at the end of Top10, all capable of winning it. If something, then it was that 6 km of unploghed snow and the question, whether WRC priority cars should contest together with historic class, as they are too different and create a big mess. Big effort from drivers, mechanics...teams in general, lots of money spent, stupid fans across the world calling them worthless, car brand worthless etc. Now that`s not honest.

[stefanvv]

But they braking rally as a friendly sport, where all respect each other.

Who said they are not friends and don't respect each other? Competition is one thing, friendship and respect another. I can give You plenty of examples from other sports - for instance in cycling a rider is "hiding" behind someone else in his air stream to save energy for later, in circuit racing we have similar situation with chasing driver use air stream from the front driver to overtake him, this is completely normal and no one had ever complained about it, it is just how the way it is, You find Your best position for You at this moment.

[Jakem]

I assume you’ve only just started following rallying?
It’s perfectly normal, especially when it’s 99% more likely that one driver will out perform and our score the other during a year.

No. There was just 1point on the table and I never thought Msport makes such a decision so early in season. I know that Evans is 100% second driver, but come on let him also collect some points. Ok this 1 point could be important for Ogier in the end of season MAYBE. But Ogier starting later to powerstage and now this 1 point from Evans, looks funny and shows that Ogier is very scared allready now not to take the 6th title? Interesting 2018 season ahead!

[steve.mandzij]

I think the situation depends greatly on whether the whole thing was orchestrated or of Ogier helped himself without telling the team. In the first case it's only fair for Evans to receive another penalty to give Ogier his place back, but if Ogier acted alone it's not right to push Evans back again.

On a related note, might the Fiesta be the slowest car this year? The Yaris has the speed to tussle with the i20's and the C3, while difficult to drive, has been doing well. The Fiesta hasn't set the world on fire with it's speed so far.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[stefanvv]

I think the situation depends greatly on whether the whole thing was orchestrated or of Ogier helped himself without telling the team. In the first case it's only fair for Evans to receive another penalty to give Ogier his place back, but if Ogier acted alone it's not right to push Evans back again.

I don't think Evans will have anything against that decision in any case. Ogier was clearly faster than him up to this point fair and square. It is only gain for the whole team to play tactics in this case.

[mknight]

On a related note, might the Fiesta be the slowest car this year? The Yaris has the speed to tussle with the i20's and the C3, while difficult to drive, has been doing well. The Fiesta hasn't set the world on fire with it's speed so far.

Imo it has as much to do with Ogier being the only top driver in fiesta on both rallies.

[steve.mandzij]

Imo it has as much to do with Ogier being the only top driver in fiesta on both rallies.Define top driver? Suninen did very well albeit with mistakes, as would be expected (very much like a new Latvala).

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[macebig]

I love that some of you guys live in a bubble where rally is a "novel sport". Maybe you are too young to remember in the 90s drivers delibarately dropping time in the final stage of each day so as to not be cleaning the road the next morning. Flexing the rules was and will always be part of the sport (or any sport).

[mknight]

Define top driver? Suninen did very well albeit with mistakes, as would be expected (very much like a new Latvala).

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

My definition:
Regularly can score top 3 times atm.

Right now these are (in no particular order): Ogier, Neuville, Tanak, Latvala, Mikkelsen, (and almost Lappi), Meeke (as a driver, but C3+Meeke combo doesn't count)

[stefanvv]

On a related note, might the Fiesta be the slowest car this year? The Yaris has the speed to tussle with the i20's and the C3, while difficult to drive, has been doing well. The Fiesta hasn't set the world on fire with it's speed so far.

May be too early to judge that (it seems new evolution is coming in next rallies or so), last year was a similar situation, Hyundai was faster right from the start at Monte and continued to do so in Sweden, where we also saw the Toyota potential, Ogier IIRC was struggling quite a lot in Sweden last year. For sure it was the most reliable car throughout the year. If they can bring the consistency with better performance, nothing to worry about.

[Tarmop]

Define top driver? Suninen did very well albeit with mistakes, as would be expected (very much like a new Latvala).

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Like last year, two special events where driver and road conditions are the main thing. Let's wait for the next round, where the troublesome c3 shined and others had several problems to get a bigger picture. Suninen did well, but remember his experience and his last event in that car was in August.

[Myrvold]

C`mon, it was just 1 point, Ogier was clearly faster than Evans and fought hard for that place. PS scheme also means that its tighter at the front, again, good for the sport. We saw that several drivers had to fight too hard for place at the end of Top10, all capable of winning it. If something, then it was that 6 km of unploghed snow and the question, whether WRC priority cars should contest together with historic class, as they are too different and create a big mess. Big effort from drivers, mechanics...teams in general, lots of money spent, stupid fans across the world calling them worthless, car brand worthless etc. Now that`s not honest.

I've said it earlier this weekend, and I'll happily say it again. The historic class is irrelevant when it comes to Ogiers constant complaining. He complained just as much about the second runs in 2016. That year there was zero historic cars, and only five 2WD cars. He was complaining about exactly the same then. That the later cars were doing different lines and making grooves and making it impossible to run first.
This year we had JWRC in Sweden, so that would've been a huge issue for Ogier regardless.
Also, only five 2WD cars in 2016 wouldn't have the power or weight to completely mess with the lines, so it must be the slower 4WD cars as well. In 2016 there were only 50 entrants. So outside WRC and WRC-2 there wasn't too many cars.

So I guess in the end, for Ogier to be happy you'd need to have 20-25 cars max. in Rally Sweden. Only the top WRC and WRC-2 guys.
Oh... and with Ogier running as number 4,5 or 6. As later than that might be troublesome with ice-dust making it slippery for later starters and then possible ruts.

[SubaruNorway]

Maybe less in Oppland, but as I am trying to get a guy from New Zealand over to Norway next winter, I'd like just as much snow in the rally area :)

Yeah we'er around 5cm from beating the snow record from 1927 of 140cm where i live! This morning on Likenäs i was going 2km before area 4 and they stoped spectators after 1.5km so i had to crawl through the forest to get around the marshal as it's nearly impossible to walk!

[dimviii]

"The Monte Carlo was not the desired rally, but we had two things here in Sweden: we took the best place among the constructors and the drivers, we did recover our bad weekend of Monte Carlo. Thierry's event was great, he had a fantastic rally, he deserved a great success, he managed like a big man and he attacked when he had to, and he even earned some points in the Power Stage while he was in charge. It's an amazing weekend for him, his performance, being the third non-Scandinavian driver to win in Sweden, deserves a big congratulations, "said Alain Penasse.

And the Hyundai team manager added: "We were scared with his paddle shift in the first stage and he made a small mistake in the second Saturday, it's clear that the emotions are growing as you get closer to him. His passage through Colin's Crest was a bit of acrobatics, he was told he had to be careful in Karlstad, and next year I'll tell him to be careful in Karlstad and Colin's Crest. Thierry grew up during each rally, he showed an amazing maturity during this event, he drove fast but very comfortable, we did not have a preference but Thierry did the best results. the boss' at Hyundai but he appears as the boss of the WRC Ogier thinks the same thing now. "

Ogier, precisely, used a surprising strategy for the Power Stage. "By doing that, he improved his position on the road by 25 minutes, so he did a good job mathematically, he plays the grocer but, in the end, grocers always have a lot of money. ", concluded Penasse at our microphone.
https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_penasse-neuville-a-ete-grandiose-il-a-gere-comme-un-grand?id=9843586

[stefanvv]

I've said it earlier this weekend, and I'll happily say it again. The historic class is irrelevant when it comes to Ogiers constant complaining. He complained just as much about the second runs in 2016. That year there was zero historic cars, and only five 2WD cars. He was complaining about exactly the same then.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2016 he was complaining clearing the road first 2 days, which was essentially 75-80% of the rally?

[Myrvold]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2016 he was complaining clearing the road first 2 days, which was essentially 75-80% of the rally?

He was, though, it was zero cleaning that year, and just an advantage being first. For the second run he complained about the grooves from the slower cars, as they had different lines.
Remember, the last 4 years have had quite little snow, so the road have been mainly ice without snow on it, this have made it an advantage to be first, as the road have been clean. But for each car running the ice have been ripped up, and ice-dust have been put on the top, which makes it worse for drivers that come afterwards.

[stefanvv]

He was, though, it was zero cleaning that year, and just an advantage being first. For the second run he complained about the grooves from the slower cars, as they had different lines.
Remember, the last 4 years have had quite little snow, so the road have been mainly ice without snow on it, this have made it an advantage to be first, as the road have been clean. But for each car running the ice have been ripped up, and ice-dust have been put on the top, which makes it worse for drivers that come afterwards.

I just remember the 2 day cleaning rule that year, which rally was advantage, and what advantage, I don't. May be so, may be not, all history now. Like the result in this rally, but it seems to make a lot of discussion of lot of aspects. Anyway who is right or not doesn't matter at the points scoring system.

[Myrvold]

I just remember the 2 day cleaning rule that year, which rally was advantage, and what advantage, I don't. May be so, may be not, all history now. Like the result in this rally, but it seems to make a lot of discussion of lot of aspects. Anyway who is right or not doesn't matter at the points scoring system.

Understandable, I don't remember it from other rallies either. It's just that I've been spectating in Sweden all these years, you remember better when you are there. Or at least I do :)

[spiderem]

hum... so once again all the drivers made it to the end, no withdraw except Meeke. Is it good or bad for the champioship? i kinda miss the drama already of people making mistake and bringing unexpected results. now mexico!

[stefanvv]

Understandable, I don't remember it from other rallies either. It's just that I've been spectating in Sweden all these years, you remember better when you are there. Or at least I do :)

Yeah, Your counting of R2 cars is amazing, respect.

[Myrvold]

Yeah, Your counting of R2 cars is amazing, respect.

One of them were a Norwegian comedian who only did day 1 as a part of his new TV-Show "Champion of the Amateurs", where he met top athletes from Norway, and tried their sports :) That's basically why I remember that! I don't usually remember those kind of details, and often use EWRC :)

[Sulland]

Would be very nice if Citroen and others could put on colored mirrors for Mexico, to make it easier to distinguish what pair is inside!

Very hard to see the flag on the vent on the roof. Easier to see the mirror in 150 km/h
Startnumber is impoissible to see, so if you do not know based on startlist, there is no way of knowing what car it is.

[stefanvv]

One of them were a Norwegian comedian who only did day 1 as a part of his new TV-Show "Champion of the Amateurs", where he met top athletes from Norway, and tried their sports http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif That's basically why I remember that! I don't usually remember those kind of details, and often use EWRC http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

What about day 2?

[Myrvold]

What about day 2?

They only planned to do day 1, I cannot remember the exact reason. Probably costs. He actually managed to avoid last place (even when you remove the ones who retired and restarted on day 2).

[stefanvv]

They only planned to do day 1, I cannot remember the exact reason. Probably costs. He actually managed to avoid last place (even when you remove the ones who retired and restarted on day 2).

So back to the topic, it is unknown how difficult/easy was for Ogier on day 2? Seems it was already difficult on day 1 on 2nd loop.

[GravelBen]

They didn't brake rules - it's true.

They did break rules, otherwise they wouldn't have been penalised 4 minutes.

But the penalty was less than the advantage gained from breaking the rules, which is not the best situation.

[AndyRAC]

I wouldn't class booking in late as 'breaking rules' - merely playing the system....a calculated gamble, which paid off. The fault with the rules is being able to do this and benefit.

[Ucci]

This time I didn't follow the rally as I'm few thousands miles southeren from Europe enjoying in warm sun and sea...
Looking at results first what was almost a shock to me: Breen on 2nd position?? With crapy C3?? Well done....and were is last year's winner? So much for my pickems.....thx JML.
Disastrous weekend for Msport....
More than solid result for Ostberg.
And all factory drivers finished rally (Meeke of course must be exception), that speaks for technical durability.
Looking forward to Mexico-Neuville, prepare to sweep the stages on 1st day.

[KKS]

Who said they are not friends and don't respect each other? Competition is one thing, friendship and respect another. I can give You plenty of examples from other sports - for instance in cycling a rider is "hiding" behind someone else in his air stream to save energy for later, in circuit racing we have similar situation with chasing driver use air stream from the front driver to overtake him, this is completely normal and no one had ever complained about it, it is just how the way it is, You find Your best position for You at this moment.
It not the same. Cycling and racing examples quite good interpolates to road position in rallying. You in-front and must "brake" that air to go through and who chasing you give an advantage of that physics effect. Same with road position in rallying. It's all known part of the game and nobody try cheat each other.
Just imagine at circuit racing one team-mate blocking opponent and other pass him. It's fair? Nope. It brake rules? Nope.
Same here. You must respect rules. Everybody wants clear road, but someone must clean it. You first at WDC? you must do it! You slow at 1st day - you must do it! (especially that Ogier so wanted that rule) And when it turns to effect to Ogier himself - he start invent different reasons to not comply with that. Do not try cheat or find some hole in law and getting used to it

[KKS]

No. There was just 1point on the table and I never thought Msport makes such a decision so early in season. I know that Evans is 100% second driver, but come on let him also collect some points. Ok this 1 point could be important for Ogier in the end of season MAYBE. But Ogier starting later to powerstage and now this 1 point from Evans, looks funny and shows that Ogier is very scared allready now not to take the 6th title? Interesting 2018 season ahead!
Ogier have only one goal in his life - beat Loeb. So he need 9 consecutive titles. That's why he do it.
Here in Ukraine we have proverb: "spin like a snake on a frying pan". When it turn not that way as he wants and he sees his next title under threat - he do everything.

[ESTR]

Why they don't make qualification on shakedown round. Run order will be championship position with 3 limited runs and road position on a first day of a rally with set the fastest times (running opposite - fastest time 10th on the road, slowest time - 1st on the road) I know that for tarmac events it's not so good idea but with 3 and a half events in calendar it's fair.

[Franky]

But who says that the road conditions will be equal on the qualy?

Leave it as it is.

[Myrvold]

Why they don't make qualification on shakedown round. Run order will be championship position with 3 limited runs and road position on a first day of a rally with set the fastest times (running opposite - fastest time 10th on the road, slowest time - 1st on the road) I know that for tarmac events it's not so good idea but with 3 and a half events in calendar it's fair.

What about Sweden the last years? First on the road was an advantage, suddenly being fastest on Shakedown is a negative. Or sudden rainfall on gravel events.
Trust me, you'd have Ogier complaining about that as well then...

[EstWRC]

Järveoja and Latvala said to estonian TV that the problem is the historic cars. The solution they would see is not to let the historics on the stages between the WRC cars. And Latvala said if they let them then the historics should use the same wide tyre as they are.

[A FONDO]

hum... so once again all the drivers made it to the end, no withdraw except Meeke. Is it good or bad for the champioship? i kinda miss the drama already of people making mistake and bringing unexpected results. now mexico!

With three of the best drivers deep in the snow, all the rest were simply obligated to reach the finish somehow and get some of the best points in their careers. It was like these showcase "rallies" where rich people with ultra luxurious cars drive from a hotel in a resort to another hotel in another resort just to gain some attention. Now please bring on some normal rallies to watch real battle.

[GravelBen]

Trust me, you'd have Ogier complaining about that as well then...

I think he will carry on complaining and blaming others every time the conditions don't give him an advantage tbh, it just seems to be how he is.

[T16]

So Msport made clear that only mission for Evans this year is to help secure Ogiers 6th title. Pffff...


No. There was just 1point on the table and I never thought Msport makes such a decision so early in season. I know that Evans is 100% second driver, but come on let him also collect some points. Ok this 1 point could be important for Ogier in the end of season MAYBE. But Ogier starting later to powerstage and now this 1 point from Evans, looks funny and shows that Ogier is very scared allready now not to take the 6th title? Interesting 2018 season ahead!
One point may be the difference between being champion or not.
Scared is probably the wrong word to use, I think the team are simply being realistic in understanding that Hyundai and probably Toyota will be incredibly difficult to beat to the drivers crowns, because it’s certain that they will play the same game at some point in the season if it looks like they have to.

[ESTR]

But who says that the road conditions will be equal on the qualy?

Leave it as it is.

so that's why there could be 3 runs. And then could be similar situation when drivers could set the times mabe slower maybe faster so they get better position. It could be prevented by rewarding for first 3 places or 5 with extra points. Or on tarmac normal road position.

That way there will be shakdeown crucial too. Not just cruising just like almost all do now. It would be fair and everyone can blame himself for his road position.

I just consider what it could have been, so everyone benefits.

[electroliquid]

so that's why there could be 3 runs. And then could be similar situation when drivers could set the times mabe slower maybe faster so they get better position. It could be prevented by rewarding for first 3 places or 5 with extra points. Or on tarmac normal road position.

That way there will be shakdeown crucial too. Not just cruising just like almost all do now. It would be fair and everyone can blame himself for his road position.

I just consider what it could have been, so everyone benefits.

That's actually not bad idea - like in rally-cross, there they get points for everything.

[denkimi]

Why they don't make qualification on shakedown round. Run order will be championship position with 3 limited runs and road position on a first day of a rally with set the fastest times (running opposite - fastest time 10th on the road, slowest time - 1st on the road) I know that for tarmac events it's not so good idea but with 3 and a half events in calendar it's fair.
they could do the same like in the ERC. let them drive a qualifying stage multiple times, and then let them pick the position they want. that way no one can complain, no matter the surface or circumstances.

[tbtstt]

Fantastic result for Breen, even more so given the car he is driving. Very smart move from Ogier/M-Sport. Some may see that as underhand but, as I said in the other thread on the subject, I see that as the mark of a smart driver. Power stage points are a slight damage limitation for the weekend.

I thought it was pretty daft of Citroen to not have Meeke do something similar. However I now understand that Meeke didn't hand his timecard in at the end of the rally, therefore he can get a "free" engine for Mexico.

Great stuff from from Katsuta in WRC2 as well, very surprising result there.

[tommeke_B]

they could do the same like in the ERC. let them drive a qualifying stage multiple times, and then let them pick the position they want. that way no one can complain, no matter the surface or circumstances.

Isn't it funny how ERC actually copied this from WRC? :D I think WRC started with it in 2012, but abandoned the system quite soon.

[tommeke_B]

Back from a great Rally Sweden. 5th time I went, but the first time with such nice snowbanks! Great to see how close all cars and drivers still are, good that the gaps aren't becoming bigger with ongoing development. In WRC2 probably the surprise of the year for me, the performance of Katsuta! Driving a Fiesta R5 and beating Tidemand with a works Fabia R5 on his own ground, no words for this. Waiting to see more from him...

A few photos:

https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28162074_2165268473485027_4277505649897771043_o.jp g?oh=cc6c0e18e0631b2e34ffcf2b906df235&oe=5B248720

https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27993446_2165269016818306_6380078604010374448_o.jp g?oh=42c9676e0c9a33bb25f9f5b17bcbd6e4&oe=5B1A3FC5

https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27993061_2165151226830085_6303984150870308457_o.jp g?oh=150cc9e3530e93f5387fc897e49d418e&oe=5B0E6095

https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28165061_2165268463485028_4678787039163463315_o.jp g?oh=3cad620c341dfcf155ffa1997b4756a0&oe=5B0001B0

https://scontent.fbru2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28070427_2165268850151656_1700684395211030082_o.jp g?oh=42e9f69f28386df12baa86cead988c8a&oe=5B1F70BB

More: https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallyimage/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2165268393485035

[ESTR]

Isn't it funny how ERC actually copied this from WRC? :D I think WRC started with it in 2012, but abandoned the system quite soon.

Let me guess. Ogier complain too much and they change the rules to suit him.

[dimviii]

nice incar with Paddon
https://youtu.be/UHIBW4jZbZI

[dimviii]

A few photos:


hard to choose the best photo.Bravo Tom!

[dimviii]

Timo Anis photos
https://www.facebook.com/pg/timoanisphotography/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1612312558848640

[mknight]

Isn't it funny how ERC actually copied this from WRC? :D I think WRC started with it in 2012, but abandoned the system quite soon.



Let me guess. Ogier complain too much and they change the rules to suit him.


No it was just boring. In a time when one driver always dominated the standings (Loeb, then Ogier). Also all the "good" drivers always picked between 4th and 8th on the road and then some poor local/young drivers got the stick to drive first on the road.
(for this season that would mean for ex. Sunninen, Østberg, Boufier etc.)

The current system makes other drivers shine (if at least for a day) and keeps the championship more open.

The main reason you hear so much complaining about it now is that there are many drivers and cars that are very close to each other on pace. As late as 2016 we had the championship order for both Friday and Saturday.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This whole Ogier/power stage event is a first and probably a one-off. Its very unlikely to happen again where a driver will risk overall position points for PS points.

[Tarmop]

This whole Ogier/power stage event is a first and probably a one-off. Its very unlikely to happen again where a driver will risk overall position points for PS points.

Would make sense for every rally 2 driver on most events...

[AnttiL]

Would make sense for every rally 2 driver on most events...

I was thinking about this. Apparently the organizers didn't let Ogier start until after the winner and the WRC2 top3, although he wanted to start already before Neuville. If a Rally2 driver would came late into time control, they wouldn't let him start before after the winner, it would mean being late more than 30 minutes and being OTL?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

These were exceptional circumstances. I bet it never happens again.

[stefanvv]

Would make sense for every rally 2 driver on most events...

Probably, but on the gravel rallies the PS is usually re-run of previous stage, so there wouldn't be much difference. Sweden seems to be the exception with historic cars run.

[Watson]

Probably, but on the gravel rallies the PS is usually re-run of previous stage, so there wouldn't be much difference. Sweden seems to be the exception with historic cars run.
This.

[Mintexmemory]

I was thinking about this. Apparently the organizers didn't let Ogier start until after the winner and the WRC2 top3, although he wanted to start already before Neuville. If a Rally2 driver would came late into time control, they wouldn't let him start before after the winner, it would mean being late more than 30 minutes and being OTL?

Actually if less than10 WRC cars, including Rally 2, are still running then the Rally 2 cars could get away with PS waiting. The situation will never be predictable . If you are first by about a minute or less you’d be mad to risk penalty that would lose you 7 points. It gets interesting at fourth place where you have to decide if your pace will get the PS points anyway or if you feel you have the speed to turn 2 lost points into 3, 4 or 5 PS points.
To stop these Shenanigans PS should be run strictly in Rally order. This means the leader has less chance of taking the 5 PS points. Over the season this might make for closer competition. Just a thought.

[electroliquid]

To stop these Shenanigans PS should be run strictly in Rally order. This means the leader has less chance of taking the 5 PS points. Over the season this might make for closer competition. Just a thought.

+1

[dimviii]

At fault on Thursday night in the Karlstad super special, the Frenchman then met the worst conditions by being first on the road during the day on Friday. Entangled in the freshly fallen snow, the MSport rider only clocked one time in the top 10 on this first day of racing.

"Friday was really complicated, but we could not do anything more. We tried to attack several times but under these conditions, it was more like a struggle to stay on the road. "

Evolving in conditions still delicate on Saturday, the five-time world champion then alternated between the correct (3rd in the SS11 and 4th in the SS15) and the worst. Second on the road behind Henning Solberg, Sébastien Ogier had no opportunity to express himself fully on a field he appreciates despite everything.

"If we take a look at the ranking of top 3 (Tanak, Latvala and French) in the championship, it is clear that none of us has a chance this weekend. There is no problem with the car, it's just impossible to compensate. The disadvantage is far too important. "

While hanging on Sunday morning to an anecdotal tenth place in the overall standings synonymous with a single point scored in the championship, the French was then at the heart of an unusual maneuver. Following the decision of his team, he has in fact pointed far behind the start of the Power Stage to take advantage of a more equitable starting order. Author of his best performance of the weekend with the second time, Sebastien Ogier has fully benefited from the decision of his team before it offers him an extra point by downgrading Elfyn Evans in the final standings.

"It was a decision of the team. For years, I have been fighting against different rules regarding the starting order. At the end of the day, it's a world championship, and everyone tries to do their best and seize every opportunity to score points. I would have preferred to come to Sweden with a real chance to fight for the win or even a podium, but it was not possible since the beginning of the weekend. "

Now second in the championship behind Thierry Neuville, the five-time world champion will enjoy a slight advantage over his opponent in three weeks on Mexican special where the starting order will again be the focus of discussions.
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/ogier-cetait-decision-de-lequipe/

[52Paddy]

Delighted with Breen's second place at Rally Sweden. Fair play to the young Waterford lad! It's a shame he has to miss the next two rallies - I wonder if there's any way he could land a drive last minute for one of them. I assume the cut-off has already passed for Mexico entries but Corsica?

In the interest of balance, of course, Neuville put in an impeccable performance. Not sure where I stand on Ogier's power-stage tricks. Still on the fence (though there's another thread for that...)

[dupanton]

Actually if less than10 WRC cars, including Rally 2, are still running then the Rally 2 cars could get away with PS waiting. The situation will never be predictable . If you are first by about a minute or less you’d be mad to risk penalty that would lose you 7 points. It gets interesting at fourth place where you have to decide if your pace will get the PS points anyway or if you feel you have the speed to turn 2 lost points into 3, 4 or 5 PS points.
To stop these Shenanigans PS should be run strictly in Rally order. This means the leader has less chance of taking the 5 PS points. Over the season this might make for closer competition. Just a thought.

You can easely solve the problem by changing the rules so that any penalty at the time control prior to the powerstage will count in the stagetime. So if you have a 10" penalty for being 1 minute late into the time control, they add 10" to the powerstage time.

[AnttiL]

.
To stop these Shenanigans PS should be run strictly in Rally order. This means the leader has less chance of taking the 5 PS points. Over the season this might make for closer competition. Just a thought.

How boring would that be on tv?

[Mintexmemory]

How boring would that be on tv?

No more so than at present - especially as the season reaches a climax

[dimviii]

Tanak cleaning rear wheel arches
https://www.facebook.com/www.jree.ee/photos/a.1806163002748996.1073741925.149828518382461/1812345425464087/?type=3&theater

[Myrvold]

Järveoja and Latvala said to estonian TV that the problem is the historic cars. The solution they would see is not to let the historics on the stages between the WRC cars. And Latvala said if they let them then the historics should use the same wide tyre as they are.

This seems to be the way to legitimate the complaints.

It's just that the same complaints were used in 2016, with no Historic cars... of course, mainly by Ogier.

[Tarmop]

What was the reason in your opinion then? Why did they lose the most on day 1, 2. loop and the least yesterday (Ogier especially)? There`s quite a margin between a narrow and wide tyre, rwd/4wd/fwd.

[EstWRC]

This seems to be the way to legitimate the complaints.

It's just that the same complaints were used in 2016, with no Historic cars... of course, mainly by Ogier.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-penalty-controversy-prompts-format-change-calls-1006617/

[Myrvold]

What was the reason in your opinion then? Why did they lose the most on day 1, 2. loop and the least yesterday (Ogier especially)? There`s quite a margin between a narrow and wide tyre, rwd/4wd/fwd.


https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-penalty-controversy-prompts-format-change-calls-1006617/

The difference of the grooves where I was was minimal from the end of WRC and Historics. This is also completely ignoring the same complaints from the same person the year there was no Rally Sweden Historic. I have no doubt that RWD cars, FWD cars, JWRC, slow, scared 4WD drivers etc. create strange grooves for the top WRC guys to follow. But this have been the usual complaint from Ogier, regardless of Historic being a part of the rally or not. The only way to avoid any issues like this is to have 15-ish top drivers in WRC17 spec cars only.

As for the running Historic after the second run - that would make each day extremely drawn out and create loads of dangerous situations with people walking on the road. For the stage I spectated on Friday, the historic would get first car out on stage around 18:00 CET, and not be done until 20:00 ish. Those three extra hours from being complete around 17:00 does make a huge difference in spectator behavior, and not at least getting up and spectating again on Saturday.

To clarify: I don't doubt that the Historic class are making the grooves hard for the WRC guys, but the issue would still be there without the Historic class - at least for Ogier.

[Tarmop]

Issues yes and complainig ofc also, but conditions should be as equal as possible. This timeloss is too big.

[SubaruNorway]

Not really an option running historics after the 2nd run as i don't think you would find marshalls willing to stay on a stage for close to 12 hours...

[Myrvold]

Issues yes and complainig ofc also, but conditions should be as equal as possible. This timeloss is too big.

He had an advantage in the recent years. Sometimes it's an advantage, sometimes it's not. He should be able to deal with it...

[Tarmop]

Yes, but i`d prefer WRC, when watching WRC.

[tommeke_B]

Not really an option running historics after the 2nd run as i don't think you would find marshalls willing to stay on a stage for close to 12 hours...

Believe me, the marshalls are already doing that...

[AnttiL]

The rally structure would have to be changed into something like Rally Finland Friday last year where you did double runs on three stages within the morning leg, and then double runs on three other stages in the afternoon. That way, you could have the historics do the morning stages after the WRC cars. But would that be interesting for the spectators anymore?

[AL14]

Why they just don't do the historic event anymore?

[rallyfiend]

Why they just don't do the historic event anymore?

Money.

Money from entry fees.

Money from spectator tickets because of extra interest.

Etc. etc.

Sane reason basically every WRC event does it (historics, national event etc)

[stefanvv]

Why they just don't do the historic event anymore?

Normally historic rally should be separate from the the wrc event, like Monte Carlo historic. But I guess it comes down to money indeed. Save from organizing another rally and gain from 2 in 1. The strange thing is that snowy conditions make it really bad for wrc runners.

[doubled1978]

I doubt Wales would be financially viable without the National event that runs alongside it. The National event is also used as a means of keeping the spectators in one place all day as much as possible. Im sure the same with Sweden.

[AL14]

Money.

Money from entry fees.

Money from spectator tickets because of extra interest.

Etc. etc.

Sane reason basically every WRC event does it (historics, national event etc)

I've been in Monte twice and Sardinia 4 times never seen historic or other championship between legs. Are they an exception?

[Luijbregts]

The historic part was NOT the problem. It is to make an event out of it for the spectators and bringing in good money for the rally to survive. Finally we have a great winter rally. Why are reporters not asking Ogier what he would do about the problem? Why not again make a qualification out of the SD or combined with the SD so that the quickest can choose first, next quickest to choose second, etc... Never understood why they went away from this system. Like this the SD/qualifying would also welcome a bunch more spectators and it would be interesting for everyone and exiting to basically start the rally then and there. There is hardly any other Motorsport where there is no qualifying.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Give them wider tyres... done.

[ziggysony]

video from a fantastic rally sweden 2018 https://youtu.be/Rz2InwT5PnQ 1534

[itix]

Didn't see this one posted in here. It is Tänak hitting Meeke.

Kinda have to say it was Tänaks fault. He hit Meekes back corner and Meeke really couldn't have gone further into the snow bank.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=5iE0cd7nNfM

[Tarmop]

Been here many times. Both also apologised and share the blame.
.

[itix]

Been here many times. Both also apologised and share the blame.
.Aight, must have missed it... Thanks!

[Rallyper]

Believe me, the marshalls are already doing that...

Don´t compare marshalls with spectators. Not relevant. Tor Andre has a good point which can´t be ruled out like that.

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/T93qEvVq6Hs

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NfJbf8DHGM

[Simmi]

I'm back and recovered from a really great trip to Sweden. It was the third time I've been and the conditions really added that extra magic - as well as frequently disappearing into pelvis deep snow!

Got some photos here for those interested: https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/albums/72157693624049715

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4655/25494909547_4f133cde13_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5nZ)1 (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5nZ) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4708/25494873647_4a75c7db06_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQTTH2)35 (https://flic.kr/p/EQTTH2) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4762/25494905757_769aaa0e9e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQU4fD)4 (https://flic.kr/p/EQU4fD) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4708/25494904887_4a97402657_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQU3ZD)5 (https://flic.kr/p/EQU3ZD) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4710/25494909077_c9f0a23aeb_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5eT)2 (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5eT) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

[AnttiL]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4655/25494909547_4f133cde13_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5nZ)1 (https://flic.kr/p/EQU5nZ) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

What an awesome shot!

[dimviii]

What an awesome shot!

Henning trying to see in front of bonnet really make this photo awesome! Nice catch Simmi!
sent him this photo,i am sure he will like it.

[Slipzen]

I can swear the beginning of Hagfors stage was different on the early maps on the official Rally Sweden website.
Now I recognize the start better. Been there once. Good places about 1,5 K but also after only 500m there´s a tricky one.

I believe we shared the same spot spectating Hagfors 1 and the Historic rally. Nice meeting you and your relative.
We discussed the potential need of pushing cars at our spot and if I remember it correct you stated that it was nothing for you. But then I saw the In-car video from Kris Meeks off on Hagfors 2 where you were hanging over his bonnet pushing like hell :). Good work!!

[Myrvold]

Give them wider tyres... done.

Look at Likenäs 1 and 2. Check the stage times for the ones who were first on the road. This was without any Historic cars at all. Same situation.

[AnttiL]

I think the point is that without the national rally in between, the road opener has it bad only for half of the day, it should be better on the repeat of the stages, but then it's even worse. But Ogier's stage times on the first runs of stages didn't differ much apart from the 3rd on Vargåsen 1 and and 6th on Likenäs 1.

Also, the historics did not run on Torsby between Saturday evening's Torsby Sprint and the power stage. Kris said the road was plowed and all the loose snow pulled into the ruts, making it just worse.

[SubaruNorway]

Look at Likenäs 1 and 2. Check the stage times for the ones who were first on the road. This was without any Historic cars at all. Same situation.

Yup, after about 20 cars it's already 5-10cm of ice powder outside the ruts so that's the same, just watch how Mikkelsen looses the rear on 2nd pass of Likenäs on the 2nd clip in my video.
Go back to narrow tyres on the WRC? Do they really use the same 15" rims in Sweden on a gravel rally later or the other way around in a factory team anyway?

[Myrvold]

I think the point is that without the national rally in between, the road opener has it bad only for half of the day, it should be better on the repeat of the stages, but then it's even worse. But Ogier's stage times on the first runs of stages didn't differ much apart from the 3rd on Vargåsen 1 and and 6th on Likenäs 1.

Also, the historics did not run on Torsby between Saturday evening's Torsby Sprint and the power stage. Kris said the road was plowed and all the loose snow pulled into the ruts, making it just worse.

Again - look at Likenäs 2, it's not better than Likenäs 1 for the early guys. I can see that without JWRC, non-championship runners etc. it will be "easier" for the second run. But then you are left with, what? 12 WRC cars and 7-8 WRC-2 cars. A 20 car rally at max.

[Simmi]

Henning trying to see in front of bonnet really make this photo awesome! Nice catch Simmi!
sent him this photo,i am sure he will like it.

Thanks dimviii. Henning already stole it at the weekend for his Instagram haha.

[KKS]

Protasov vs advertising, SS 16 Torsby :D

https://www.facebook.com/protasov.cherepin.rally/videos/169698667003081/

[A FONDO]

Protasov vs advertising, SS 16 Torsby :D

https://www.facebook.com/protasov.cherepin.rally/videos/169698667003081/

I don't believe his co-driver tightened his belt completely before he took off... someone fill a complain.

[Alex009]

I don't believe his co-driver tightened his belt completely before he took off... someone fill a complain.

1536

How about this? Tanak & Jarveoja after crash with Meeke. Sordo was DQ some year...

[EstWRC]

here we go again.....

[N.O.T]

Give them wider tyres... done.

If you ever wonder why none of the people close to you never asks for your opinion or view on any matter (important or not) you got your answer there...

you are irrelevant in everything you say or do...

[Myrvold]

here we go again.....

But arguably, this is a punishable offence, right?

[skarderud]

With the last years rally sweden in mind, it's hardly a handicap to be first at the road, this year it was lots of snow and then it is right to complain, but ogier always complains to make FIA change the rules to fit him best.
Last years it was mainly ice, with some gravel, the late runners ruins their tires, do they complain? No, because it's a part of the sport! Just as be first on the road at tarmac is a big advantage.
Shit happens, live with it, or go rallyX....

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Sulland]

I look forward to Sweden all year, to enjoy the world best drivers fighting on snow & ice, doing things that make you go, oh shit, is that even possible!

Sweden is the favorite of many drivers, and also many fans.
I might be biased, but I still mean that the calendar needs two winterrallies!

[AL14]

But arguably, this is a punishable offence, right?

Let's open a new thread

[steve.mandzij]

Let's open a new threadWhoo boy.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Alex009]

here we go again.....

Its not ours fault if your estonian driver is so stupid.

[GigiGalliNo1]

If you ever wonder why none of the people close to you never asks for your opinion or view on any matter (important or not) you got your answer there...

you are irrelevant in everything you say or do...

So I was only noting what Ogier had said... he's irrelevant?

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-controversy-prompts-format-change-calls/

As first WRC driver on the road, Ogier found the situation particularly problematic and was a distant 12th by the end of Friday.

“The ruts are 20cm narrower than my car,” said Ogier.

“Even in a straight line I have to fight like hell to stay on the road."

[Tarmop]

You would also need huge spacers. Escort mk2 and Fiesta wrc width are very different things .

[AnttiL]

Would it help to have the WRC2 start first on the road? I know that their track width is still different from WRC but would be still a bit closer?

[AnttiL]

How about this? Tanak & Jarveoja after crash with Meeke. Sordo was DQ some year...

I don't have an issue with the driver already accelerating while the co-driver is still putting on the belts...but completing the stage with one of the top belts missing seems dangerous, but I guess and hope he just genuinely forgot to strap it and didn't notice until the finish.