2018 Teams [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 09:40

OK, I'll start a new thread for all confirmed contracts and speculations.

Confirmed contracts

Citroen
- Meeke
- Breen (MC, Swe, Arg, Por, Ita, Fin, Tur, Ger, GB, Aus)
- Loeb (Mex, Fra, Ger)
- Al-Qassimi
- Østberg (Swe)

Hyundai
- Neuville
- Paddon (Swe, Por, Ita, Fin, Tur, GB, Aus)
- Sordo (MC, Mex, Fra, Arg, Por, Ger, Spa)
- Mikkelsen

Toyota
- Latvala
- Lappi
- Tänak

M-Sport
- Ogier
- Evans
- Suninen (Swe, Mex, Por, Ita, Fin, Tur, GB, Spa)
- Bouffier (MC, Fra)
- Serderidis (Ger, Aus)

Privateers
- Østberg (Arg + 1)
- Bertelli (1 event)

Citroen WRC2
- Lefebvre

M-Sport WRC2
- Camilli
- Suninen (MC, Ger)
- Greensmith

Skoda WRC2
- Tidemand
- Kopecky
- Veiby
- Nordgren
- Rovanperä (MC, Mex, Arg, Fin, Ger, GB, Spa, Aus)

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 09:41

Speculation from Toyota thread:

I wasn't able to find how long Tanak has contract at M-Sport.

What I could find is that at Hyundai all 3 have contract up to end of 2018.

Meeke and Breen have up to end of 2018.
Lefevbre I do not know.

Evans I do not know, prbly 1 year?
Ogier has 1 year.
Tanak don't know.

Latvala 1 year I think.
Hanninen and Lappi 1 year.

Of the free drivers there is Mikkelsen and then Sunninen (due to age, speed and performance also on tarmac) , Camili kinda unlikely, maybe Østberg, dunno about other likely candidates.

Now is the time when deals are starting to be made and typically are signed around Finland (but published first at the end of season). Some drivers will have real pressure on them in Poland, most notably Lefevbre and Hanninen.

Let's speculate on the possible moves:

Ogier to Toyota (more likely) or Citroen
Tanak to Toyota is imo not so likely, but possible.
Evans imo stays where he is. (good performance, but not so good that other teams will be very interested). Possibly 2 car deal with Østberg?

Latvala and Lappi will stay at Toyota.
Hanninen most likely out.
Sunninen limited program at Toyota.

Meeke either stays or out, all depends on Finland and car development. I certainly cant see other teams picking him. (crashes, seemingly can't develop a car)
Breen stays.

Lefevbre prbly reduced program if they can get someone else.

Mikkelsen to Citroen (if he feels the car can be driveable), to Toyota (if they don't get Ogier) or to Ford (if Ogier moves elsewhere).

Hard to say about Suninen before he gets to drive the WRC car in Poland and Finland, but he could be a contender for the DMack Fiesta? And when will Tidemand step up to WRC class? Tänak could be M-Sport's number one driver? I'd guess Toyota holds onto Lappi and he's happy to continue there. I'd love to see Mikkelsen or Tänak in the Toyota. Finally, it's hard to say anything before we know which all teams are in next year.

Tänak has a contract until the of this year. as far the info i have got, Tänak himself wanted to go to Toyota last year but as we know Wilson had the "first right" to keep him and that was it.

mknight

13th June 2017, 09:49

So Toyota six car team and Ford one car team then? :) :)

It's all about the money.

Toyota is a manufacturer that looks to have big budget and has shown speed and most notably real improvement.

M-sport typically makes very good cars when they first come out, but over a few seasons it can't keep up the development while at sametime focusing on selling cars to customers and making ends meet.

Sure if Ford comes back it will be up there with Toyota as very attractive.

Allez Andruet

13th June 2017, 10:02

Will be intresting to see how everything plays out.

Toyota:
I think all three (or atleast Latvala and Lappi) might actually have longer contracts with the team than what has been announced publicly. Will Toyota continue as a three-car team in 2018 or will they bring in fourth and maybe even fifth car to some events? Tänak, I think, might be a strong candidate and would fit well into team. Neither Ogier nor Mikkelsen will be seen @ TGR, mark my words.

Citroen:
Yes, Meeke has a contract for 2018 but you just have to wonder (after what we've seen during the past couple of days) does it mean anything? The team must go all-in for Ogier.

Hyundai:
Will most likely continue as-is.

M-Sport:
The real wild card here. What's gonna happen? Is Ford coming back or not? Will Ogier stay or not? Will they lose Tänak as well? If yes, who are they gonna go with? Evans? Suninen? Östberg?

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 10:08

Citroen imo needs Ogier (preferably) or at least Mikkelsen to stand a chance next year.

MSport could be a good bet for next year for someone like Mikkelsen or Tanak because Ogier will probably leave a pretty good car so while it may not develop as fast as others I think it could still be competitive next year.

I think Tanak could end up at Toyota, both he and Makkinen have indicated that they would like to make the deal. Hanninen will probably be dropped to occasional appearances or just testing. Another question about Toyota is how many cars will they have and what they will do with the two Japanese young guns.

it could look something like this:
Hyundai: Neuville, Sordo, Paddon
Toyota: Latvala, Lappi, Tanak
Citroen: Meeke, Breen, Ogier
MSport: Evans, Sunninen, Mikkelsen

AL14

13th June 2017, 10:16

I never guess anything but I am pretty sure we will see Ogier at Hyundai next year.

mknight

13th June 2017, 10:17

I forgot the Latvala factor when mentioning Ogier at Toyota, it clearly didn't work for him to be in same team in VW.

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 10:52

Ogier will stay at Ford with Tänak. Third could be Camilli or Suninen.

KiwiWRCfan

13th June 2017, 10:55

In an interview with an Italian website today Tommi Makinen talks about Esapekka Lappi being the long term future of Toyota. Expect a multi year contract to announced soon https://it.motorsport.com/wrc/news/toyota-makinen-investe-su-lappi-e-il-nostro-pilota-del-futuro-917722/

Watson

13th June 2017, 11:25

It's really pointless to speculate before we know if Ford come back. If they don't Ogier will certainly leave and Tanak might. If they do they will both stay and [Ford] would probably keep Evans too (he is most certainly quicker than Camilli and they would probably prepare a fourth car for Suninen, Mikkelsen would certainly not fit in the team anymore and would be needed more elsewhere).

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 11:32

If he/they win the Championship I see no reason why Ogier would leave M-Sport.

mmm

13th June 2017, 11:33

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 11:39

If he/they win the Championship I see no reason why Ogier would leave M-Sport.

Because M-Sport cannot afford him. And Ogier has said he wants to be in a factory team that really puts money into car development.

Watson

13th June 2017, 11:40

Since Toyota is based in Finland/Estonia, Tänak could tilt towards Toyota simply for getting more time with his family in Estonia. Add to that a fat check from Japan and it could be a very easy deal for him to make.

Hardly, if Ford come back they are with big certainty equally as wealthy and will build faster cars (M-Sport expertise combined with Ford money equals a rocket Fiesta). The drivers don't spend much time at the HQs anyway, you have to travel for the events and testing most of all.

If he/they win the Championship I see no reason why Ogier would leave M-Sport.

Wilson said he can't afford Ogier another year by himself and Ogier made it very clear that he wants full factory backing to keep the car competitive.

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 11:41

The drivers don't spend much time at the HQs anyway, you have to travel for the events and testing most of all.

But most of the testing is done in the team home country, in the case of Toyota that would be Finland.

Watson

13th June 2017, 11:43

But most of the testing is done in the team home country, in the case of Toyota that would be Finland.

That's just pre-season testing. Flying back and forth Estonia and the UK in first class ain't such a shabby deal. :D

Moreover Wilson and Tanak have history. Hell, Estonia and Wilson have history due to Märtin.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 11:52

Re Ogier it also depends on his other options... why leave for money when other teams like Citroen are no better. He wants to win titles.

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 11:55

Re Ogier it also depends on his other options... wny leave for money when other teams like Citroen are no better. He wants to win titles.

It's not simply about the money Ogier is getting it's about money for car development, testing, building parts and cars and so on. I've read somewhere (dunno if it's true) that Wilson put savings money into this year so he could develop the car at a level to match the other teams and that he can't do the same next year.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 12:09

mknight

13th June 2017, 12:12

The 2016 Fiesta was still as good as anything (bar the Polo) even though it was old and Ford pulled out years ago.

I can't agree with that. Specially considering Østbergs massive performance drop in the second half of the season. Tanak on DMACK is rather difficult to use as a measure.
Also Hyundai was clearly faster in the second half of the season.

Watson

13th June 2017, 12:16

The 2016 Fiesta was still as good as anything (bar the Polo) even though it was old and Ford pulled out years ago.

The 2017 Fiesta was also late and tested less than the factory ones yet it is still a winning car.

Money isnt everything.

Valid points but the sounds Wilson and Ogier are making are clearly pointing in one direction. They might just both be trying to apply pressure on Ford but we don't know that. All we can do is hope, brother in pain.

J_n_z

13th June 2017, 12:22

Standings doesnt show this, but I think Tanak is faster driver than Ogier ATM. Put age and price in the equasion and he may be most desired at the end of the season.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 12:22

Given the constant issues Ostberg had with his driving style he wasnt able to get the best out of the Fiesta.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 12:24

Standings doesnt show this, but I think Tanak is faster driver than Ogier ATM. Put age and price in the equasion and he may be most desired at the end of the season.

I agree.

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 12:31

The 2016 Fiesta was still as good as anything (bar the Polo) even though it was old and Ford pulled out years ago.

The 2017 Fiesta was also late and tested less than the factory ones yet it is still a winning car.

Money isnt everything.

2016 - disagree
2017 - even so there is probably more potential in this new generation cars and if you haven't the money to test and try new parts they will fall behind

Standings doesnt show this, but I think Tanak is faster driver than Ogier ATM. Put age and price in the equasion and he may be most desired at the end of the season.

Tanak can match Ogier on speed sometimes, sure, but Ogier is still a more complete driver let's not get overexcited after just one win ;)

mknight

13th June 2017, 12:32

Given the constant issues Ostberg had with his driving style he wasnt able to get the best out of the Fiesta.

After first 5 rallies he was clearly 3rd placed in standings after Ogier and Mikkelsen with two podiums (again behind VW only). During second half of the season he couldn't get past 7-8th place. Even in GB where both Ford and he were strong before. Surely he didn't suddenly forget how to drive?

Also I know you are happy about Tanak winning in Sardinia but consistently faster than Ogier and more desired? So far he hasn't shown top 3 speed on tarmac if anything.

Tarmop

13th June 2017, 13:30

Watson

13th June 2017, 13:37

First of all i hope that all the teams remain in the WRC, secondly they get a budget boost. At the moment M-Sport is using Wilson`s savings which will run out at the end of the season and another not really rich team, Citroen is last in the championship, having a problematic car and driver, all this after the effort they made last year. Could be too big of a disappointment to the PSA bosses...
Then again if they pull the plug now the investments were entirely in vain. It doesn't really make sense even money-wise.

There probably is a good car somewhere in that C3 as we saw in Mexico. If they work with the right people they should be able to show that more consistantly next season.

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 13:44

Could Ogier tame the C3 with his development skills?

Fast Eddie WRC

13th June 2017, 14:03

After first 5 rallies he was clearly 3rd placed in standings after Ogier and Mikkelsen with two podiums (again behind VW only). During second half of the season he couldn't get past 7-8th place. Even in GB where both Ford and he were strong before. Surely he didn't suddenly forget how to drive?

Also I know you are happy about Tanak winning in Sardinia but consistently faster than Ogier and more desired? So far he hasn't shown top 3 speed on tarmac if anything.

Sorry but 2016 was classic Ostberg, only picking up places when others had problems.

And he did have a real issue with his driving style mainly regarding down-changing which really didnt work with the Fiesta. Also he had to radically improve his tarmac driving style by doing a number of practice events in an R5.

Watson

13th June 2017, 14:05

Could Ogier tame the C3 with his development skills?

I think what they need most of all is a couple of new engineers.

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 14:15

And he did have a real issue with his driving style mainly regarding down-changing which really didnt work with the Fiesta.

What's his style like?

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 14:19

My guess:

Ford M-Sport
Ogier
Tänak
Suninen
Camilli

Hyundai
Neuville
Sordo
Paddon
Lim

Toyota
Latvala
Lappi
Japanese

Citroën
Mikkelsen
Breen
Lefebvre
Al-Qassimi

mknight

13th June 2017, 14:29

What's his style like?

Østberg claimed the down-shifting issues appeared mid-season after M-sport tried to increase engine performance. He had no issues first half of the season.

Anyway we are just running way off-topic. My conclusion still is that 2016 Fiesta was the slowest of the 4 factory cars.

Watson

13th June 2017, 14:30

@Andre Oliveira

That is assuming Ford return then?

Why would they pick Camilli and Suninen over Evans? Camilli is even having trouble keeping up with the top WRC2 guys. Suninen looks promising but it is still a bit early for him to get promoted permanently (probably).

The rest seems like good assumptions to me (Ford in scenario). Maybe guys like Tidemand and Veiby might play third or fourth car roles in Toyota and Citroen.

jparker

13th June 2017, 14:38

Guys, VW may spoil your nice discussion here. Ogier and Mikkelsen back to VW is my guess.

Watson

13th June 2017, 14:48

jparker we've been through this before there is no sign whatsoever that VW is coming back.

jparker

13th June 2017, 14:57

I know, but it's logical. Who keeps winning car in the garage? How stupid the VW management has to be to not understand that?

Watson

13th June 2017, 15:07

Give me your definition of logic. They pulled out for good therefore they will come back?

VW left because they have costly lawsuits against them and they couldn't afford it anymore. They also pulled Audi out of the Le Mans series which was the Golden Calf of the VW Group Motorsport department.

It would make no sense whatsoever to come back next year. They'd have to put up all the tents they tore down last year. Do you know what that costs?

The Polo also can't be run privately unless the other manufacturers approve which they won't before they can be sure that they developped their cars enough to run circles around the Polo.

So please, can we put this to bed now? It will not happen.

pantealex

13th June 2017, 15:10

That's just pre-season testing. Flying back and forth Estonia and the UK in first class ain't such a shabby deal. :D

Moreover Wilson and Tanak have history. Hell, Estonia and Wilson have history due to Märtin.

Toyota does test in Finland almost every week...

J_n_z

13th June 2017, 15:11

Tanak can match Ogier on speed sometimes, sure, but Ogier is still a more complete driver let's not get overexcited after just one win ;)

I havent make any analysis, but by memory, without technical problems Tanak was generally quicker than Ogier on every rally accept Monte.

jacko

13th June 2017, 15:12

I know, but it's logical. Who keeps winning car in the garage? How stupid the VW management has to be to not understand that?
I think you're at least that stupid by yourself...

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 15:13

The Polo also can't be run privately unless the other manufacturers approve which they won't before they can be sure that they developped their cars enough to run circles around the Polo.

This is not correct, it was only the case for this year because the deadline for entry had passed. If someone has approval from VW and money they can enter the cars in 2018, no problem.

jacko

13th June 2017, 15:19

My guess:

Ford M-Sport
Ogier
Tänak
Suninen
Camilli

Hyundai
Neuville
Sordo
Paddon
Lim

Toyota
Latvala
Lappi
Japanese

Citroën
Mikkelsen
Breen
Lefebvre
Al-Qassimi

So no Meeke you think? I don't think so, i guess he will be there with Mikkelsen and Breen and on special events there will be Lefebvre in combination with a R5 adventure. Mister Lim in the Hyundai and the Japanese Toyota guy will not happen before 2019. Camille no so long Ogier is in the team and besides i think Ostberg & Evans are normalwise better option. Toyota will sign Meeke or Evans if available or Camille (and Hanninen for special events). Ans there's also Tidemand in the game, maybe something for Hyundai in the future. We will see, silly-season will be long this year.

Tarmop

13th June 2017, 16:07

This is not correct, it was only the case for this year because the deadline for entry had passed. If someone has approval from VW and money they can enter the cars in 2018, no problem.

Yes, but who? First time it failed (some fault in VW there yes) and now the Polo hasn`t been developed since December and others are seven events and almost six months further, by the end of the year 13 events? Cheaper to pay M-Sport (or maybe some other team in the future?). To run a Polo would also mean a minimum team of two cars.

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 16:16

Unfortunately Meeke WRC carreer is over in my opinion.

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 16:17

jparker we know you hate M-Sport. Don’t worry, VW not come, Ogier will stay with Ford.

Watson

13th June 2017, 16:18

Okay my bad about running it privately then. But as Tarmop pointed out all the other cars have advanced now. It might have me sense for Ogier and Mikkelsen to run it privately this year but not anymore now. If you consider M-Sport finds it difficult to pay Ogiers wages who the hell could prepare enough money to get him interested. One way or the other it will not happen.

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 16:22

I think the VW could still be a match for the current cars. They had at least 6 months advantage with preparations, probably more. But I think we will never know for sure.

EstWRC

13th June 2017, 16:24

surprised to see Latvala mentioned, he said he will quit his career :p

mknight

13th June 2017, 16:38

I havent make any analysis, but by memory, without technical problems Tanak was generally quicker than Ogier on every rally accept Monte.

Monte - Ogier faster
Sweden - Tanak faster
Mexico - Ogier faster
Corsica - Ogier faster
Argentina - Tanak faster
Portugal - not taking cleaning on first day into account they had very similar speed
Sardinia - Tanak faster, but Ogier had bad road position both Friday and Saturday

So Tanak was clearly faster 2-3 times, Ogier 3 times. At best this is a draw.

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 17:12

surprised to see Latvala mentioned, he said he will quit his career :p

He took it back in the post event press conference

AL14

13th June 2017, 17:14

Guys please are we really comparing Tanak e Ogier?

Tanak is growing good and I am optimistic about him but sometimes I am astounded about how some of you are result oriented sometimes.
How can you not take into account how Ogier has mastered everyone since 2013? He is in another planet. Of course I hope someone will reach that planet to have some proper fight but it's not the case of Tanak at the moment.

er88

13th June 2017, 17:17

Ogier will stay at Ford with Tänak. Third could be Camilli or Suninen.
The rumours atm are that Ford won't be back.

AnttiL

13th June 2017, 17:23

Why would Camilli be back? Apart from his decent run in Sardinia, he hasn't been impressive in WRC2 this year. I'd rather hire Tidemand as a new talent. Or Suninen, depending on how the two next events go.

Rally Power

13th June 2017, 17:24

This is not correct, it was only the case for this year because the deadline for entry had passed. If someone has approval from VW and money they can enter the cars in 2018, no problem.

Not quite so. The problem with the ‘17 Polo was homologation rules. In order to be homologated a WRC car must be run on a 2 car team for a whole season (the team can be private, as long it's designated by the manu). The first option (Jipocar running Ogier and Prokop) would be valid but apparently it failed when Al Attiyah got in the middle, delaying the project and interfering with Ogier's chossing window. Mikkelsen's project failed because it was a one car project to be entered on selected events and the other teams didn't consent that kind of rules exception. Anyway, a new street Polo is going to be launch in September. It makes even harder to believe that VW will allow private teams to run a car based on their old model.

Btw, just a tip on Ogier future: can the 'America First' spirit, that's been developed in the US under the new administration (it'd be nice to hear javanpuura about this) and followed by many big corps (GM selling Opel isn't a coincidence), affect Ford's decision to enter WRC?

PS: no need to wait till September; like petalex said on another thread, the new Polo is going to be presented next Friday (11am CET).

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 18:47

Malcolm Wilson are negotiating with Ford Europe

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 18:48

Watson

13th June 2017, 19:00

The rumours atm are that Ford won't be back.

Sources?

er88

13th June 2017, 19:24

Malcolm Wilson are negotiating with Ford Europe
He has been since Ogier became available late last year tbf ;). Let's hope Ford come back, and the negotiations will eventually result in something other than things remaining the same

Norm75

13th June 2017, 19:27

Sources?
Why would they? They have a world champion driving 'their' car leading the championship, for very little outlay as m sport are running the cars.
Little or no cost to ford but they can take all the credit.
Would ford come back just to keep Ogier in the car, I doubt it. Very few people that aren't interested in rally, which is a lot of people, wouldn't have a clue who Sebastian Ogier is.

stefanvv

13th June 2017, 19:36

Very few people that aren't interested in rally, which is a lot of people, wouldn't have a clue who Sebastian Ogier is.

They will have a clue Ford is winning WRC though, and that's the marketing purpose.

Norm75

13th June 2017, 19:57

They will have a clue Ford is winning WRC though, and that's the marketing purpose.
Exactly my point. Why would ford spend millions when someone is doing it for them.

The only way I see ford coming back is if Malcome and Seb suggest to Ford big wigs that they maybe have a little chat with Volkswagen about running Polos next year. It would probably never happen, but then again they do run Bentley GT programme, and who owns Bentley!

Watson

13th June 2017, 19:58

Why would they? They have a world champion driving 'their' car leading the championship, for very little outlay as m sport are running the cars.
Little or no cost to ford but they can take all the credit.
Would ford come back just to keep Ogier in the car, I doubt it. Very few people that aren't interested in rally, which is a lot of people, wouldn't have a clue who Sebastian Ogier is.

So Toyota, Citroen and Hyundai are just doing the WRC for a goof?

It's not just about Ogier, it's also for car development. If they don't come back it will all turn sour next year and the 'free publicity' will be gone. We have been talking about this for pages now.

Watson

13th June 2017, 20:07

The only way I see ford coming back is if Malcome and Seb suggest to Ford big wigs that they maybe have a little chat with Volkswagen about running Polos next year. It would probably never happen, but then again they do run Bentley GT programme, and who owns Bentley!
For the record Ford does spend some money on M-Sport already and help with the development. They are tied together to a degree.

Are you suggesting Wilson will threaten them to run Polos? Man you talk more nonsense than jparker.

Tarmop

13th June 2017, 20:13

In Europe, where rallying is quite popular (and so are small cheaps cars which Yaris, Polo, Fiesta, i20 etc are), it would be quite a nice way to advertise ones products. For a big company it`s not such a big amount of money and Ogier isn`t after a huge salary (probably his sponsors pay him enough) but a title-winning car.

Norm75

13th June 2017, 20:28

For the record Ford does spend some money on M-Sport already and help with the development. They are tied together to a degree.

Are you suggesting Wilson will threaten them to run Polos? Man you talk more nonsense than jparker.No, I'm not suggesting Wilson would threaten Ford, just that I don't see ford coming back unless m sport looked like they were going to pull the plug. Maybe playing devils advocate to a degree, but no, I'm not suggesting that is what Wilson would do.

As for your comment about Toyota, Hyundai, and Citroen in wrc for a goof, they haven't got a company with as high profile as m sport doing all the hard work, well no, they have their own divisions . . . Ok, maybe a little different with Makinen and Toyota, but surely you can work out what I'm getting at.

seb_sh

13th June 2017, 20:29

Not quite so. The problem with the ‘17 Polo was homologation rules. In order to be homologated a WRC car must be run on a 2 car team for a whole season (the team can be private, as long it's designated by the manu). The first option (Jipocar running Ogier and Prokop) would be valid but apparently it failed when Al Attiyah got in the middle, delaying the project and interfering with Ogier's chossing window. Mikkelsen's project failed because it was a one car project to be entered on selected events and the other teams didn't consent that kind of rules exception. Anyway, a new street Polo is going to be launch in September. It makes even harder to believe that VW will allow private teams to run a car based on their old model.

Btw, just a tip on Ogier future: can the 'America First' spirit, that's been developed in the US under the new administration (it'd be nice to hear javanpuura about this) and followed by many big corps (GM selling Opel isn't a coincidence), affect Ford's decision to enter WRC?

Yes you are correct, I was thinking of the option of a team running two cars for the whole season. I wasn't specific enough but I meant it would be possible even without other manu's approval as long as that someone respects the rules.

Tarmop

13th June 2017, 20:33

All the hard work would still be done by M-Sport, question is in money. As for M-Sport pulling the plug, Wilson has started talking about it...not directly, but still, he has said quite many times that they are doing it over their limits and with his personal money and he has no idea what happens next year. He even mentioned that he wanted to win WDC before leaving. This could mean him stepping down and delegating others, maybe Wilson jr. to do all the work/travelling across the world or maybe a hint that this could be the very last season for M-Sport, probably/hopefully not the last.

J_n_z

13th June 2017, 20:47

Monte - Ogier faster
Sweden - Tanak faster
Mexico - Ogier faster
Corsica - Ogier faster
Argentina - Tanak faster
Portugal - not taking cleaning on first day into account they had very similar speed
Sardinia - Tanak faster, but Ogier had bad road position both Friday and Saturday

So Tanak was clearly faster 2-3 times, Ogier 3 times. At best this is a draw.

Your point :) TNX for analysis.

Watson

13th June 2017, 20:56

As for your comment about Toyota, Hyundai, and Citroen in wrc for a goof, they haven't got a company with as high profile as m sport doing all the hard work, well no, they have their own divisions . . . Ok, maybe a little different with Makinen and Toyota, but surely you can work out what I'm getting at.

M-Sport had built the cars for the Ford World Rally Team since 1996. They would just be going back to that if Ford 'came back'. It's just about money and some engineers and facilities for research and development; no major change.

Norm75

13th June 2017, 21:18

M-Sport had built the cars for the Ford World Rally Team since 1996. They would just be going back to that if Ford 'came back'. It's just about money and some engineers and facilities for research and development; no major change.
Oh yeh, I know the history of Malcome Wilson and msport, I get that nothing would change other than the financial side, I'm just looking at it from a business perspective, and ford is a business.

Tarmop

13th June 2017, 21:25

So is motorsport.

olemann

13th June 2017, 21:52

My guess:

Citroen
- Meeke
- Mikkelsen
- Breen
- Al-Qassim (limited program)

Hyundai
- Neuville
- Paddon
- Sordo
- ?

Toyota
- Latvala
- Tänak
- Lappi
- Sunninen (limited program)

M-Sport/Ford
- Ogier
- Evans
- Østberg
- ?

(If we go to Ford Motorsports we get the following choices.
Ford motorsports.
- STOCK CAR RACING
- FOR GT RACING
- ROAD RACING
- RALLYCROSS
- OPERATION
- OFF-ROAD RACING

RALLY is missing that is important to the European market.
To be able to keep Ogier in M-Sport, I think they are ready to support M-Sport in the next few years.
There are trivial in advertising compared to other motor ports they attend.)

DMack M-Sport
- Tidemand

Andre Oliveira

13th June 2017, 21:56

Østberg oficial? No way. Suninen in M-Sport for sure. Tidemand in Toyota maybe?

er88

13th June 2017, 22:22

Hyundai
- Neuville
- Sordo
- Paddon

Toyota
- Latvala
- Tanak
- Lappi

Citroen
- Ogier
- Meeke
- Breen

Msport
- Andreas
- Evans
- Suninen

This is what I'd guess right now (if Ford doesn't return). However if Ford return, Seb will stay and I'm sure Tanak would stay as well despite Tommi's overtures.
Paddon and Meeke both on shaky ground and need good ends to 2017.

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stefanvv

13th June 2017, 22:50

I don't see Ogier in Citroen, unless he is really desperate, and he seem not so last 2 seasons.

GravelBen

13th June 2017, 22:59

Paddon and Meeke both on shaky ground and need good ends to 2017.

Most of Paddon's disappointing results this season have been from mechanical problems not driver problems, pretty sure the team won't be blaming him for those.

mmm

13th June 2017, 23:54

Is it just me or was Paddon's driving style cleaner a year or 2 back? Right now he is clearly throwing the car around too much - maybe out of desperation for a good result?

er88

14th June 2017, 00:24

Is it just me or was Paddon's driving style cleaner a year or 2 back? Right now he is clearly throwing the car around too much - maybe out of desperation for a good result?
Maybe that's to do with pressure. He been hasn't been great for over a year now. Sadly went backwards after that superb win in Argentina, but thankfully he has age on his side (unlike Meeke) to turn this around. I still believe he has the talent to go on and fight for championships, and he's a great character to have in the sport. Very likeable.

Hyundai have witnessed first hand with Neuville how a driver can suddenly lose his mojo and look lost for a while, before bouncing back stronger. And that can maybe help them manage Paddon back to form before the end of the year. Andreas already has the feelers out and would love a move to Hyundai, what with his comments about how it was easy to drive the VW and the Hyundai quickly compared to the C3.

Zeakiwi

14th June 2017, 02:55

Hyundai
- Neuville
- Sordo
- Ogier (Paddon to ERC r5 development, Rally America or APRC or gardening leave)

Toyota
- Latvala
- Lappi
- Suninen (token 4th car for one of the young Japanese drivers on selected rallies)

Citroen
- Mikkelsen
- Breen
- Camilli (on an event by event probation)

Msport
- Tanak - lead driver
- Evans
- Ostberg (DMack) or who ever brings the biggest sponsorship package

Watson

14th June 2017, 07:47

I think Ogier and Neuville in the same team would end in a massive fallout.

seb_sh

14th June 2017, 08:04

I think Ogier and Neuville in the same team would end in a massive fallout.

yes, but it would be fun for us!

Mintexmemory

14th June 2017, 10:54

I don't see Ogier in Citroen, unless he is really desperate, and he seem not so last 2 seasons.
Ogier in a Citroen could only happen if they were to accede to his long list of demands.
- Matton goes
- All Loeb trophies and framed pictures at HQ are put in the attic.
- He has final say on who his team mates are
- The CEO appears on French TV wearing a 'mallet' baseball cap admitting what an 'equipe des connards' the company were ever to piss 'the amazing Seb' (his new official title) in the first place.

Fast Eddie WRC

14th June 2017, 11:39

Ogier wants to stay at M-Sport..

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-lays-out-demands-for-ford-wrc-stay/

Andre Oliveira

14th June 2017, 11:48

Citroën salvation could be Neuville

AnttiL

14th June 2017, 11:48

Ogier wants to stay at M-Sport..

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-lays-out-demands-for-ford-wrc-stay/

But not without factory support. And Wilson needs money.

Watson

14th June 2017, 11:51

Ogier wants to stay at M-Sport..

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-lays-out-demands-for-ford-wrc-stay/

Who could that head sponsor be? Maybe Red Bull?

Citroën salvation could be Neuville

I thought Neuville still has a contract? Also, why would he leave Hyundai they are doing miles better than Citroen and he is the undisputed number one there already anyway.

Fast Eddie WRC

14th June 2017, 11:56

But not without factory support. And Wilson needs money.

It's still his preferred choice.

EstWRC

14th June 2017, 11:57

But not without factory support. And Wilson needs money.

i dont think Ford necessarily must come back, like Wilson basically says that Ford just needs to pump more money to them.

andyone

14th June 2017, 12:19

i think Ogier will Remain @ M-sport this year is his year to fine tune his car. i dont think if ford is a Bad car. most Drivers need to get use to a Car before they go flat out.

Even latvala when he went to Toyota. the Car was changed, many things had to be changed to the Car. and as we know Latvala is quicker to get used to a Car than most drivers. many Drivers struggle when they change the Car. we have seen that a lot.

my thoughts
Toyota - Latvala,Lappi,Suninnen. Haninnen is not a fast driver Sorry for saying that but that is what i think

Ford - Ogier,Tannak,Evans. what reason will Tannak Have to leave ford now? its the only Team that took him and got him there. he will not want to leave that quickly

Citroen - Meeke,mikklesen, i dont see any of the others to be competative. mikklesen should be Citroens Savior. if Meeke dont get his drive up. he is screwed( i like this guy)

Hyundai- same as it is. i dont see why any of the two to not want the other. all drivers are better. and already used to the Car properly and they are leading the championship and probabbly will win it.

Tarmop

14th June 2017, 12:31

1. Tänak or Tanak (without ä- letter) not Tannak.:D
2. Since when did Hyundai start leading the championship?

Watson

14th June 2017, 12:35

3. Any team would be happy to have Breen. Citroen won't let him go.

Oliverk

14th June 2017, 13:20

It is bad to talk about other people wallets but you have to consider that Tänak needs to be paid from this year onwards. If someone offers him money then he will go. He can't do this for free forever.

Watson

14th June 2017, 13:31

AL14

14th June 2017, 13:38

I think Ogier will go to Hyundai for 5 reasons:

1) They are a real manufacturers factory team (only Citroen can say the same) with full support from headquarters and are not afraid to invest money in WRC (Citroen can't say the same).
2) Hyundai is maybe the strongest car around at the moment (Fiesta is very good thoug).
3) They are based in Alzenau, they have a philosophy and an attitude similar to VW...
4) I don't think the actual lineup of drivers is an issue, not even contracts are, he is the best. If you want to win championship you have to hire him. And Hyundai is there to win championships, not to think of contracts...
5) The only reason he will not go there is a full come back of Ford. But we don't know if they will and if they will, we don't know how...

EstWRC

14th June 2017, 13:38

depends what you consider. this is the first season that besides paying for his rides Wilson is also paying a salary to him.

my reply was to Watson

macebig

14th June 2017, 13:58

Watson

14th June 2017, 14:11

Neuville and Ogier in the same team? Hyundai won't make it out of Monte without one of those two having a massive fall out with the team.
This and Hyundai has contracts for all three drivers next year. It's expensive to just tear those contracts and Ogier himself costs a bomb.

It's not gonna happen.

AnttiL

14th June 2017, 15:11

1. Tänak or Tanak (without ä- letter) not Tannak.:D

And Hänninen, not Haninnen, Suninen, not Suninnen, Mikkelsen, not Mikklesen.

stefanvv

14th June 2017, 15:17

And Hänninen, not Haninnen, Suninen, not Suninnen, Mikkelsen, not Mikklesen.

Latvala's co-driver is the most difficult, even VW made mistake with that one once.

Luijbregts

14th June 2017, 15:17

And Hänninen, not Haninnen, Suninen, not Suninnen, Mikkelsen, not Mikklesen.

Haha... Love your corrections! I hate it as well when people f... up spelling of drivers names. How hard is it?

AL14

14th June 2017, 15:27

Neuville and Ogier in the same team? Hyundai won't make it out of Monte without one of those two having a massive fall out with the team.

Imagine this scene: Nandan goes to Hyundai board and says: "Ogier is free agent, we can take him and most likely win championships for the next 4 years but we are not sure because Neuville could be sad and make michiefs with him.
I don't think this gonna happen :)

AnttiL

14th June 2017, 15:37

Latvala's co-driver is the most difficult, even VW made mistake with that one once.

Anttila. As you can see it's almost my first name. In fact my grandma's maiden name was Anttila.

EDIT: his first name as well...Mika, Miika and Miikka are all valid Finnish names, but Mikka is not although Mikko is

macebig

14th June 2017, 15:37

Nandan simply will not go to the Hyundai Bord of Directors and ask them to hire Ogier. He knows the team can't handle 2 big egos (from the looks of it they are barely coping with Neuville's antics...). So, he will keep the team intact for 2018.

AL14

14th June 2017, 15:51

Watson

14th June 2017, 16:15

Let's see, if Ford will not come to WRC what happen. Let's bet a beer :)
Make that a crate.

AL14

14th June 2017, 16:24

A truck? :D

stefanvv

14th June 2017, 17:02

Nooooo, this - Antonov An-225 Mriya

pantealex

14th June 2017, 17:26

Have you all forgot that Toyota is building R5 ?

That is what those 2 Japanese will drive...

No WRC-car for them 2018.

and NO I don´t know when that R5 is ready, but I know for sure it´s coming.

GigiGalliNo1

14th June 2017, 20:27

Ogier back to Citroen is my guess

AMSS

15th June 2017, 06:20

Have you all forgot that Toyota is building R5 ?

That is what those 2 Japanese will drive...

No WRC-car for them 2018.

and NO I don´t know when that R5 is ready, but I know for sure it´s coming.

I remember Mäkinen saying in an interview that Toyota R5 will come earliest 2019

AnttiL

15th June 2017, 07:37

Most likely the teams won't change a lot. I'm pretty sure Hyundai won't change drivers. Latvala and Lappi will stay, as will Breen. Maybe Citroen drops Lefebvre to WRC2 and Hänninen retires to be a farmer (like he said in a Finnish newspaper some weeks ago). That would leave two new seats, I'd fill them up with Mikkelsen and Suninen.

If Ford returns as a factory team, I'd see the seats remain pretty consistent. Mikkelsen seems to have his foot between the door of Citroen. Hänninen would be just swapped for Suninen.

Ford:
1. Ogier
2. Tänak
3. Evans (DMack)
Hyundai
4. Neuville
5. Sordo
6. Paddon
Toyota
7. Latvala
8. Lappi
9. Suninen
Citroen
10. Meeke
11. Breen
12. Mikkelsen

If Ford does not return, Ogier needs to choose between Citroen and Toyota, leaving the other seat for Mikkelsen. Tänak would become the M-Sport primary driver and Evans would probably be promoted to the second car, leaving the DMack Fiesta for Suninen.

Citroen
1. Ogier
2. Meeke
3. Breen
Hyundai
4. Neuville
5. Sordo
6. Paddon
M-Sport
7. Tänak
8. Evans
9. Suninen (DMack)
Toyota
10. Latvala
11. Lappi
12. Mikkelsen

Fast Eddie WRC

15th June 2017, 15:18

Is a full Ford WRC return really on the cards ?

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/is-a-full-ford-wrc-return-really-on-the-cards/

Mintexmemory

15th June 2017, 15:32

Ogier back to Citroen is my guess
Why do rally fans appear to have the memory of goldfishes. Why did he leave Citroen in 2011? How did he sign off on that season? Who did Ogier have the main issue with?
I've no doubt that Ogier would suspect that certain vested interest within PSA still would not have his best interests at heart. Anyway, given the current issues with the C3, why would any driver not desperate for a drive sign up to drive that pile of tat?

Watson

15th June 2017, 17:44

I wanted to do one of those prediction lists as well but mine looks exactly the same as Anttil's. I strongly agree with the Ford-in and -out scenarios.

er88

15th June 2017, 17:49

Was the Ogier/ Loeb issue in that team not handled badly by Quenel, or whatever that bald fella was called? Or was Matton involved with that farce as well?

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BigWorm

15th June 2017, 20:51

Rally Power

15th June 2017, 22:00

Why do rally fans appear to have the memory of goldfishes. Why did he leave Citroen in 2011? How did he sign off on that season? Who did Ogier have the main issue with?
I've no doubt that Ogier would suspect that certain vested interest within PSA still would not have his best interests at heart. Anyway, given the current issues with the C3, why would any driver not desperate for a drive sign up to drive that pile of tat?

I’ve no clue if there are still obstacles at Citroen preventing Ogier to get in, but one can bet that inside him there’s the will to go back, sooner or later. A remake of life's classic 'the return of the prodigal son' with a plus: the chance to turn that pile of tat into a winning car!

stefanvv

15th June 2017, 22:07

the chance to turn that pile of tat into a winning car!

Ohhh, I'm "sure" this is Ogier's deepest dream.

Rally Power

15th June 2017, 22:16

See the bright side: it'd be a heck of a comeback!

stefanvv

15th June 2017, 22:20

For some fans yes, not for the Champion I think.

Mintexmemory

16th June 2017, 11:54

Was the Ogier/ Loeb issue in that team not handled badly by Quenel, or whatever that bald fella was called? Or was Matton involved with that farce as well?

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Quesnel promised Ogier parity, Loeb objected. Quesnel was 're-instructed' from on high (and replaced by Loeb-placating Matton at the end of the season). Citroen told Ogier he would not be permitted to challenge Loeb and ensured that he couldn't by 'turning down the wick' for Spain. Subsequently when Citroen wanted Ogier running interference against the Hirvonen threat in Wales, Ogier inexplicably crashed his DS3 within the 1st Km of SS1 (Great Orme). Re-starting on Super Rally, Ogier then proceded to score a number of fastest stage times and won the PS.

'Revanche' is a very real concept in the gallic psyche.

Eli

16th June 2017, 15:58

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130172/why-ford-has-to-back-ogier-and-msport

Another piece.

EightGear

16th June 2017, 16:06

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130172/why-ford-has-to-back-ogier-and-msport

Another piece.
But same author, just another recyling process of 1 story.

First Motorsport News, then Autosport and Motorsport.com

And voilá, 3 'stories.'

jparker

16th June 2017, 16:42

Why M-Sport are making this public?
Normally business proposal between both sides is enough. I think Ford Management will not be touched by this cry loud in the press.
I think Ogier has decided to leave M-Sport, but they are trying to make it easy for the fans.

Myrvold

16th June 2017, 22:39

But same author, just another recyling process of 1 story.

First Motorsport News, then Autosport and Motorsport.com

And voilá, 3 'stories.'

Of course. Same owners. The articles are apparently "changed by the editors from each site, to reflect each sites identity" or something like that.

er88

17th June 2017, 00:14

Quesnel promised Ogier parity, Loeb objected. Quesnel was 're-instructed' from on high (and replaced by Loeb-placating Matton at the end of the season). Citroen told Ogier he would not be permitted to challenge Loeb and ensured that he couldn't by 'turning down the wick' for Spain. Subsequently when Citroen wanted Ogier running interference against the Hirvonen threat in Wales, Ogier inexplicably crashed his DS3 within the 1st Km of SS1 (Great Orme). Re-starting on Super Rally, Ogier then proceded to score a number of fastest stage times and won the PS.

'Revanche' is a very real concept in the gallic psyche.
Cheers, couldn't remember exactly what went on and who was involved.

macebig

17th June 2017, 00:57

Don't know if it may somehow affect Citroen's WRC effort but it is been confirmed that Peugeot is working on returning to the WEC from 2020 onwards.

AnttiL

20th June 2017, 14:09

seb_sh

20th June 2017, 15:20

Could it be that all teams are kind of waiting for Ogier's move, not sealing contracts with anyone to spare seat in case Ogier's suddenly looking for a new drive for 2018? And Ogier's waiting for Ford's announcement...

I think it's pretty certain that is what is happening. But Ogier doesn't want too long so he probably has some deadline like end of August or something. And I'm sure he's talking to all teams.

Fast Eddie WRC

20th June 2017, 18:14

Could it be that all teams are kind of waiting for Ogier's move, not sealing contracts with anyone to spare seat in case Ogier's suddenly looking for a new drive for 2018? And Ogier's waiting for Ford's announcement...

I said this weeks ago when people said Mikkelsen was the 'hot property' that teams would be chasing..

Ogier is still the one they want as he has no contract after 2017.

steve.mandzij

20th June 2017, 21:19

Latvala's co-driver is the most difficult, even VW made mistake with that one once.
Miika or Mikka? Anttila for sure.

Edit: AnttiL clarified much better than me :)

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stefanvv

20th June 2017, 21:29

Miika or Mikka?

No

macebig

20th June 2017, 21:35

Miikka people..

mknight

3rd July 2017, 22:16

Finland closing in, restart speculation?

Updates after Poland:

- Lefebvre probably secured his spot in the team for next year even if not for all events
- Mikkelsen maybe not so eager to sign Citroen for next year/longer program, will prbly try to aim for Toyota or Ford in case Ogier goes Toyota

- Ogier unlikely to want to go to Citroen, kinda leaves Toyota as only option other than Ford

- Sunninen showed up as serious option for selected rallies, still unlikely for whole season

- Hanninen likely on the way out, last WRC without major technical issues (though he did have some minor ones), even behind Mikkelsen who spend close to 2 mins in various ditches, not to mention Sunninen, Evans, Østberg.

- Østberg also not likely to get any manu seat, Poland has never been his rally, but beaten by Sunninen. Still doesn't have the pace on tarmac either.

Note that while contracts typically are signed around Finland they are rarely announced before the end of the season, unless they are just extensions for the same team. So watch out for the drivers without announced extensions.

wrc2017

3rd July 2017, 23:32

On Ogiers current form, id pick a cheaper driver. There is no doubt he has plateued. In a VW you'd bet your house on him winning rally and power stage, now i wouldnt bet my dog's blanket on either.
I said this weeks ago when people said Mikkelsen was the 'hot property' that teams would be chasing..

Ogier is still the one they want as he has no contract after 2017.

er88

4th July 2017, 00:46

I said this weeks ago when people said Mikkelsen was the 'hot property' that teams would be chasing..

Ogier is still the one they want as he has no contract after 2017.
Yeah agree, plus i dont think Andreas is 'hot property' as much as people made out. I don't think Tommi fancies him for whatever reason (although I could be wrong, maybe some of the Finns on here will know more?), and I could see Hyundai sticking with their current 3 drivers next year (although Mikkelsen would be an upgrade on Sordo you'd think).

Andreas has also done himself no favour in the last few events. Getting beaten by Lefebvre in an older c3 and crawling round the stages in Sardinia wasn't great. Citroen might be the only factory seat he can get, so he better find some sort of pace in that car soon.

Or maybe he will just have to bring some budget to Msport to get a car?

I think the only certainty right now, in terms of drivers losing their place in a team, is Hanninen. The next few months are big for Meeke, Mikkelsen, Lefebvre, Suninen and maybe even Evans.

AnttiL

4th July 2017, 05:59

There's again rumours of an Ogier/VW/Red Bull comeback for 2018....

EstWRC

4th July 2017, 06:09

Where from? I haven't seen anything lately. But rally Finland is always the turning point where the talks and rumors begin. And now with a four week break there will be definitely some rumors

AnttiL

4th July 2017, 06:40

Where from? I haven't seen anything lately.

Read it from a Finnish forum, supposedly somene heard that "from Rally Poland and from elsewhere as well". Rumours are just rumours, but I had to post it for some speculations...think of all the seats that would open. Most likely Mikkelsen would be the second Polo driver (that's why he's leaving Citroen already?). Hyundai and Citroen could keep their current drivers and there would be a free seat in M-Sport and possibly in the place of Hänninen...for Suninen and Tidemand? Or a third Polo as well?

[RMC]Pip

4th July 2017, 11:06

VW RedBull team would be the icing on the cake for WRC. It's already a suberb year for rallying, getting back VW for 2018 would be mind-blowing. But I think this is all just speculation.

Rally Power

4th July 2017, 17:48

Pip;1145869']VW RedBull team would be the icing on the cake for WRC. It's already a suberb year for rallying, getting back VW for 2018 would be mind-blowing. But I think this is all just speculation.

+1

racerx1979

4th July 2017, 18:42

Simmi

4th July 2017, 18:43

Will not believe that's happening until I see it on a stage. I have to think it's just a dream.

Simmi

4th July 2017, 18:46

I thought Hänninen was signed for 2017-2018? Rumor has it TM will not can Hänninen after a year, but you would think something has to be done if he does not step it up. He's consistently on the bottom 5.

Hmm. I thought Toyota had Latvala and Hanninen on one year plus option deals? I'd assume it's the same for Lappi. Would have been pretty crazy to chuck Hanninen a two-year deal. But then we've seen Citroen do something equally rash.

EstWRC

4th July 2017, 18:53

At rally sardegna Mäkinen said to estonian media that all the drivers have one year contract

macebig

4th July 2017, 19:05

I think Tommi will try to get Suninen. If he doesn't succeed he will keep Hänninen.

mknight

4th July 2017, 19:55

I think Tommi will try to get Suninen. If he doesn't succeed he will keep Hänninen.

I totally disagree.

The goal for Toyota for next year has to be to start being a contender for both championships. So first and foremost he would want Ogier, if that is not possible (also maybe due to Latvala) and Latvala as well as Lappi stay they would want/need a driver that can reliably score good points on any event.
No need for two "young"/new drivers, one is enough. (so no Sunninen).
Hanninen is neither young, nor promising and clearly not able to bring reliable points.

Drivers without contact that are able to bring stable/good points and charge for wins are: Tanak and Mikkelsen.

Revman

4th July 2017, 20:09

Was thinking about this very issue....Would Toyota want Ogier if they have a happy Latvala? Jari-Matti seems pretty content. Would this not totally throw him off of his game?

I would think that Latvala would stay with Lappi. I agree it would be either Tanak or Mikkelsen. Who would be better in your opinion?

Simmi

4th July 2017, 20:18

Latvala/Tanak/Lappi would be some lineup!

Toyota might have the $$$ to tempt him away from M-Sport - although I'm sure Ott has plenty of loyalty to those guys. At the end of the day though it's a short career and these guys deserve paying.

I guess it's not inconceivable that M-Sport could win the manufacturer title and end up losing their two top drivers. But let's see...

Simmi

4th July 2017, 20:19

Andre Oliveira

4th July 2017, 20:27

Tänak would be a threat to Latvala too ;)

Allez Andruet

4th July 2017, 20:35

At rally sardegna Mäkinen said to estonian media that all the drivers have one year contract
Yep. the same Mäkinen who last year insisted that no drivers were signed all the way till mid-September. Don't know, but I still have a strong feeling (due to way some things have been expressed especially in Finnish interviews) that we haven't been told the whole truth regarding Toyota contracts. Latvala and Lappi will stay for sure - just as sure as Ogier won't be part of the team. Hänninen MUST step up in Finland and then keep on delivering on Germany and Catalunya in order to have any chance to keep his seat. Atleast that's how it looks like. Then again, in his defence there might be something we don't know about Poland for example. If Hänninen doesn't improve his form during the rest of the season, I would bet my money on Suninen entering TGR.

Andre Oliveira

4th July 2017, 20:46

Suninen will prefer M-Sport. He was in TGR and was first victim of VW exit, cause he would be the "Lappi". M-Sport bet on him instead Camilli, so, i think he will try stay in M-Sport.

mknight

4th July 2017, 20:47

You build a team around a happy Latvala you get a nearly man. You build your team around Ogier you get titles.

Yet Tommi chose Latvala instead of Mikkelsen in December, even though Mikkelsen seemed like clearly the better choice based on 2016 results in same car, so hard to understand them, something about Finnish managers. Then again Lappi has same manager as Mikkelsen.

Re Mikkelsen or Tanak:

Tough choice, Tanak seems better at really pushing when needed to get a good result, but is more keen to crash. Mikkelsen is generally more stable and likely faster on tarmac. Tanak can come with Fiesta 2017 experience. They already have VW experience from Latvala so Mikkelsen would only bring very limited Hyundai experience and C3 experience (prbly not something you need to know ;) ).
All in all Tanak prbly best choice if you want/need further car development. Mikkelsen if you want to go for manu title straight away.

Allez Andruet

4th July 2017, 20:54

Suninen will prefer M-Sport. He was in TGR and was first victim of VW exit, cause he would be the "Lappi". M-Sport bet on him instead Camilli, so, i think he will try stay in M-Sport.
...or he will go wherever Timo Jouhki suggests...

Simmi

4th July 2017, 21:17

Yet Tommi chose Latvala instead of Mikkelsen in December, even though Mikkelsen seemed like clearly the better choice based on 2016 results in same car, so hard to understand them, something about Finnish managers. Then again Lappi has same manager as Mikkelsen.

Yeah but you can't compare Ogier to Mikkelsen. With JML vs Mikkelsen there is some debate. The many pages of thread demonstrate this.

With Ogier vs JML there is nothing to say.

Andre Oliveira

13th July 2017, 15:58

Humm Toyota paying Tänak off to M-Sport, that money applied in Ogier contract. Suninen number 2.

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/07/12/taenak-zu-toyota-ogier-weiter-bei-m-sport/

EstWRC

13th July 2017, 16:08

That article is Such a bullshit and wrong many ways.

Tarmop

13th July 2017, 16:41

Yes. First big mistake is that, why should Toyota pay M-Sport for Tänak, since he himself said (even twice if i remember correctly, one time in a video interview) that he doesn`t have a contract for 2018 and is absolutely free to do what he wants. This was his answer about 2017 season, wether he could have joined another team or not.

wrc2017

13th July 2017, 17:17

AnttiL

25th July 2017, 06:43

Interview with Latvala's manager Jouhki in Finnish:

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Se-tuli-kuin-pommi-syliin-Auttoiko-yll%C3%A4tysk%C3%A4%C3%A4nne-Latvalan-tielle-kohti-mestaruutta/1019021?pwbi=eb765ce3a723cf8d5e5a84621c7eef17

– Tämä nykyinen sopimus on teoriassa 1+1, mutta seuraavasta vuodesta on jo Toyotan kanssa olemassa sopimus

"this current contract is 1+1 in theory, but there is already a contract for next year with Toyota"

EstWRC

25th July 2017, 07:13

well no surprise there....i see no reason for Jari to go elsewhere at the moment. And for sure they have already made a deal with Lappi too for next year.

pantealex

25th July 2017, 07:49

What if Ogier decides to go Toyota ?

Who will leave ?

Hänninen is already gone, you have to choose someone else...

N.O.T

25th July 2017, 08:07

What if Ogier decides to go Toyota ?

why would prefer a team that is nothing ?

AnttiL

25th July 2017, 08:21

What if Ogier decides to go Toyota ?

Who will leave ?

Hänninen is already gone, you have to choose someone else...

I don't understand this. Toyota has contracts with Latvala (and probably with Lappi). Most likely Hänninen will retire at the end of this season and his seat could be open for Ogier, Tänak, Mikkelsen or Suninen.

why would prefer a team that is nothing ?

Ogier repeated again in an interview during his Finland tests that he wants to be in a factory team next year.

pantealex

25th July 2017, 12:41

I don't understand this. Toyota has contracts with Latvala (and probably with Lappi). Most likely Hänninen will retire at the end of this season and his seat could be open for Ogier, Tänak, Mikkelsen or Suninen.

so You are almost 100% sure that Toyota will have 1 new driver next year ?

My opinion is: If Ogier comes then they will have 2 new drivers.
What about Kalle ? to Toyota ? (driving R5 like Japan boys)

AnttiL

25th July 2017, 13:42

so You are almost 100% sure that Toyota will have 1 new driver next year ?

My opinion is: If Ogier comes then they will have 2 new drivers.
What about Kalle ? to Toyota ? (driving R5 like Japan boys)

Why that is your opinion? I still don't understand. Latvala has a contract and Mäkinen has said in an interview that Lappi is their long-term investment. Meanwhile, Hänninen said in a recent interview that he'll retire competing soon to take care of his family and farm.

Kalle will probably do next year in BRC and drive some WRC events where he can take part in before being 18, but those with an R5 car as well. Jouhki has good contacts to M-Sport so that's a likely team for him.

er88

25th July 2017, 20:30

I don't think Makinen will go for Andreas. If he really wanted or rated Mikkelsen, my opinion is he would've already signed him.

Could've got him last year instead of Jari, and then could have easily sidelined Juho at least for an event or two to give Andreas a drive.

Now following Mikkelsen's two poor performances with Citroen and Jari's good season, he's hardly going to be more convinced about Mikkelsen's credentials now is he?

My feeling is Makinen will sign one of Ogier or Tanak, and I wouldn't even rule out Meeke or Suninen. Still, everything depends on Ford and whether they return as a manufacturer or not.

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EstWRC

26th July 2017, 07:46

AnttiL

26th July 2017, 07:59

All the Estonian newspapers going crazy (with crazy I mean it's the main article at the moment in the morning) today saying Tänak to Toyota is very likely. They all are actually quoting Finnish newspaper iltan-sanomat which has the original story.

http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005303339.html

This article basically says they're using the 1+1 options for both Latvala and Lappi, and "an inside source" says Tänak is "the most probably choice for Toyota", and Hänninen continuing would be "as big a surprise as VW making a comeback" :D

pantealex

26th July 2017, 08:01

Tommi said yesterday in interview that he is lookin for new drivers, note he said drivers not driver ;)

AnttiL

26th July 2017, 08:04

Tommi said yesterday in interview that he is lookin for new drivers, note he said drivers not driver ;)

in which media? link?

mknight

26th July 2017, 08:22

http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005303339.html

This article basically says they're using the 1+1 options for both Latvala and Lappi, and "an inside source" says Tänak is "the most probably choice for Toyota", and Hänninen continuing would be "as big a surprise as VW making a comeback" :D

Even if they signed someone I doubt it will be announced before later in the season. That said the article can be just speculation.

Anyway Tanak is (apart from Ogier) the most likely choice indeed. Very much also due to other reasons than speed (which using Ogier in same car is comparable):
1. He developed the Fiesta and has very good knowledge of it.
2. Being from just across the bay would be practical and welcome for both Toyota and him (dunno where Tanak lives now, but clearly his co-driver has newborn son in Estonia).

This is very much similar to Toyota picking Latvala over Mikkelsen even though Mikkelsen had much better 2016 in same car.

Ogier is probably not likely at Toyota due to Latvala (ref. Latvala's interview at end of 2016 where he said how he lost his confidence trying to match Ogier in everything). Now Latvala has shown he can still win rallies/fight for win. Also Ogier is not dominant and the only options he has left for next year (Citroen or M-Sport) are not likely to make him dominate based on recent results.

Anyway if Tanak at Toyota is true, it might have interesting implications:

- Ford is not coming back or bringing only limited money and Malcolm is letting Tanak go and getting a "cheap/paying" driver so he can keep Ogier
- Ogier is going to Citroen (not so likely imo), and Malcolm is going for a "make money" year after using a lot of money on Ogier and development this year

Allez Andruet

26th July 2017, 08:24

seb_sh

26th July 2017, 08:42

Latvala-Lappi-Tänak seems the ideal for Toyota from many points of view but it remains to be seen if it will happen. If it does it would be a really strong line-up, possibly the strongest.

Mintexmemory

26th July 2017, 08:54

Hänninen said himself today in Finnish morning TV-show (YLE) that the next two rallies (Finland and Germany) will determine whether he'll drive next year or not. Ok... if I had to bet, I'd put my money on Latvala-Lappi-Tänak to be the TGR drivers for 2018. But is it going to be a three-car team next year as well...?

Reading between the lines it seems that Tommi has given Hanninen an ultimatum - clearly if he doesn't keep his TGR seat there isn't going to be an alternative. It is possible that a 4th car could materialise but I'd expect that to be earmarked for one of the Japanese drivers.

Andre Oliveira

26th July 2017, 09:14

Ogier and Suninen in Ford is the most likely team. 3rd Evans

Fast Eddie WRC

26th July 2017, 09:37

M-Sport to fight to keep Ogier...
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/m-sport-prepared-to-fight-to-keep-ogier/

AnttiL

26th July 2017, 09:53

https://www.redbullcontentpool.com/international/AP-1SQJQREUS1W11?linkId=40201961

Of his possible destination for the 2018 campaign, Ogier said: “Options are existing. It’s still quite open but I have nothing to tell you right now.

“We’re in a time where the decision needs to be made and I’m in contact already. I like the stability – it’s the key of success – so a good option for me would be to stay with the same team.

“But it’s not a secret that I want to have more support from a manufacturer behind because it’s what you need to fight other manufacture teams. Let’s see. I’m sure in the following days, weeks I will be able to tell you a bit more on this topic.”

Zeakiwi

26th July 2017, 11:46

M-Sport to fight to keep Ogier...
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/m-sport-prepared-to-fight-to-keep-ogier/

M-Sport should be fighting to keep Tanak as well. Lappi and Tanak at Toyota could be strong opponents for years. Tanak is only 29. Suninen is only 23 - Wilson using young drivers in the main team has not gone so well at times. Can Evans be kept on until Suninen has done a full year's wrc if the sponsor money is available for 4 cars.

Fast Eddie WRC

26th July 2017, 12:22

M-Sport cant afford to match the factory teams salaries for 3 driver's so they are trying to convince Ogier first.

If he doesnt stay they can go for their other top driver ie. Tanak, plus the youngsters.

Andre Oliveira

26th July 2017, 12:31

That hashtag 🤔

1 DAY TO GO and it's time to look to the future! What do you think these four can achieve at this year's Neste Rally Finland? 🤔

#RallyFinlandCountdown #WRC #FordPerformance

pantealex

26th July 2017, 12:48

in which media? link?

Radio 99,3mhz

Rally Power

26th July 2017, 14:27

M-Sport to fight to keep Ogier...
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/m-sport-prepared-to-fight-to-keep-ogier/

From Wilson’s words one can get the idea it’ll be hard for him to get a major support from Ford, like he deserve. More than not making possible to keep Ogier, Ford’s hypothetical refusal to fully back MSport is a lack of respect to the team and even to the WRC.

Btw, Tanak in Toyota seems a pretty reasonable move but even if Makinen seems to have full liberty to run the show, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mr. Toyoda pressuring him to sign Ogier (a remake of the old “# one manu gets the # one driver” story). Cohabitation with Latvala is possible, as long Ogier doesn’t get the start status he was used in VW.

AnttiL

26th July 2017, 18:24

Allez Andruet

26th July 2017, 20:17

http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=1-2&ID=344017

Mäkinen says in this Finnish interview that they haven't started yet discussions for next year :D He says the current drivers have options in their contracts and when asked about Tänak, he only says that Tänak and Ogier have no contract for next year and Mikkelsen is also free

It's late 2016 all over again. Mäkinen will keep on giving meaningless statements which the press goes crazy about. We better just wait for the official TGR press release :)

Munkvy

26th July 2017, 21:07

It's late 2016 all over again. Mäkinen will keep on giving meaningless statements which the press goes crazy about. We better just wait for the official TGR press release :)

I bet he enjoys it too!

Fast Eddie WRC

26th July 2017, 21:15

Rally Power

26th July 2017, 22:42

Tricky decision for Ogier. M-Sport havent let him down despite his late arrival for 2017.
And what are his factory options -
Hyundai seem settled with TN as No.1;
Toyota/Makinen happy with with his man Latvala (who surely wont want him as a team-mate again);
and Citroen who are in disarray with a car that's still not right yet.

Do you really believe Latvala has a say about Ogier going or not to Toyota? Any manu that wants to become WRC champ will be looking for Ogier, because he’s really a game changer and letting another manu to have him in the squad is a hell of a disadvantage.

On Citroen case what puzzles me is this Loeb reappearance; is the anti Ogier lobby still active inside Citroen? It’d be a waste, and a shame, if Matton doesn’t, at least, tries to sign Ogier.

Revman

26th July 2017, 23:34

Do you really believe Latvala has a say about Ogier going or not to Toyota? Any manu that wants to become WRC champ will be looking for Ogier, because he’s really a game changer and letting another manu to have him in the squad is a hell of a disadvantage.

On Citroen case what puzzles me is this Loeb reappearance; is the anti Ogier lobby still active inside Citroen? It’d be a waste, and a shame, if Matton doesn’t, at least, tries to sign Ogier.

Tell you what....It's a hell of an interesting situation regarding Ogier and Toyota. It appears that the culture inside Toyota Gazoo Racing is golden. Do you screw with that? Certainly, signing Ogier would upset the Jari-Matti apple cart? I think it is fair to say that Toyota has had a better year than expected. Momentum into '18 could be significant, but if that culture erodes....Don't know....I think I would like to see Latvala, Lappi, and Tanak.

dupanton

27th July 2017, 10:15

I just don't see Ogier in a Toyota. I can't say why, but don't see it happen.

macebig

27th July 2017, 11:04

Matton IS the anti Ogier guy. That's why they ousted Quesnel and put him in charge in the first place...

Fast Eddie WRC

27th July 2017, 12:01

Do you really believe Latvala has a say about Ogier going or not to Toyota? Any manu that wants to become WRC champ will be looking for Ogier, because he’s really a game changer and letting another manu to have him in the squad is a hell of a disadvantage.

On Citroen case what puzzles me is this Loeb reappearance; is the anti Ogier lobby still active inside Citroen? It’d be a waste, and a shame, if Matton doesn’t, at least, tries to sign Ogier.

I said Latvala wouldnt be happy, not that he has a say.

As others have stated, Toyota seem in a good place so why upset it. And Makinen chose Latvala and Ogier had turned them down. I also cant see him going there now.

Andre Oliveira

27th July 2017, 12:28

Ogier is “condemned” to stay in M-Sport, with Ford or big sponsor or not... Hyundai don’t have place to him, Citroën no way to he go there and Toyota, well big Ego Tommi and Ogier not match. More, Ogier to Toyota would “kill” good moment of Latvala.

mknight

27th July 2017, 13:01

The slightly bizarre treatment that Ogier received when he went to test the Yaris wont see him in that team any time soon...

Tinfoil hat on:

You mean that Tommi actually didn't want him there and only gave him a test because Toyota wanted it and to make sure he does not accept he gave him car with bad/not ready setup for the road? (the vid did look tragic)

Interesting idea.

Rally Power

27th July 2017, 13:30

I said Latvala wouldnt be happy, not that he has a say.
As others have stated, Toyota seem in a good place so why upset it. And Makinen chose Latvala and Ogier had turned them down. I also cant see him going there now.

Ogier is “condemned” to stay in M-Sport, with Ford or big sponsor or not... Hyundai don’t have place to him, Citroën no way to he go there and Toyota, well big Ego Tommi and Ogier not match. More, Ogier to Toyota would “kill” good moment of Latvala.

Guys, I’m not saying a Toyota/Ogier deal will happen, just that it doesn’t make sense to discard it because it’d possibly ruin Toyota’s drivers ‘harmony’...winning team managers always try to have the best resources available and Makinen doesn’t seem to be an exception. ’86 cames to mind: Kankkunen beat Allen in a quite stressful way for Allen and Lancia, but that didn’t restrained Fiorio to sign KKK alongside Allen the next year.

Time will tell, but to think that Ogier has no alternatives to MSport seems more like a wishful thinking exercise from Ford fans than anything else.

Btw, about the ‘ego sizing’, can anyone honestly say that Wilson has a smaller ego than Makinen?

Andre Oliveira

27th July 2017, 13:43

Yes! Mr Wilson put Sébastien Ogier in altar.

Rally Power

27th July 2017, 14:34

Yes! Mr Wilson put Sébastien Ogier in altar.

It's never too late to became an Ogier believer...maybe Makinen also gets converted!

Simmi

27th July 2017, 14:43

mknight

27th July 2017, 17:17

The question is - do you truly believe that Jari can beat Seb across a season? I have seen no evidence at all that he can do this.

Up until half of this season I would never believe it, but so far this season Latvala has been surprisingly consistent. Drivers mostly get more consistent/less likely to crash later in their career. (ex. Gronholm).

So there is some possibility, but it's not very likely.

steve.mandzij

27th July 2017, 17:37

In years to come Toyota may regret the decision not to sign Ogier.

The question is - do you truly believe that Jari can beat Seb across a season? I have seen no evidence at all that he can do this. You're basically relying on the performance advantage coming from the Yaris. Again I would be worried that if you give Seb a second season in the Fiesta they get more comfortable and he again becomes unbeatable.

Ogier gives Toyota the best chance to win championships. That's just a cold hard fact. It may not fit the Finnish hero team narrative. But at the end of the day Toyota aren't pouring in money to make Finland proud.I do still see Latvala winning a championship. The chances are slim, and he might have to rely on some cases of misfortune for Ogier, but he's still hungry for the title, very quick and increasingly consistent. Had it not been for the Yaris' engine issues and his flu in Portugal who knows where in the standings he'd be now?

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Daviesalaam

28th July 2017, 11:01

TGR new engine... Seems its on fire.. Lets find out end of the rally

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racerx1979

28th July 2017, 13:34

New engine? They're allowed to change engines mid season?

Morte66

29th July 2017, 17:05

AnttiL

29th July 2017, 17:07

New engine? They're allowed to change engines mid season?

Homologation joker

denkimi

29th July 2017, 20:53

A question...

With all the speculation of Ford coming back, do they really need to "come back" in the sense of spending 50-70 million euros per year like VW supposedly did? Or would an extra 5-10 million be enough to pay Ogier, develop the Fiesta, and keep him happy to stay?

It depends on what they hope to achieve. If they actually want to become champions again, they will have to invest many millions. If they just want cheap exposure, they can give just enough to keep ogier.

racerx1979

29th July 2017, 21:48

Homologation joker

Wow, cool. I thought it was limited to engine components, but a new engine could be related to why Latvala had an ECU issue. Each rally this year is interesting since these cars and drivers are changing so much as the season progresses. Germany will be interesting as well. What a year!

macebig

30th July 2017, 09:16

Nobody will ever spend the gazillions VW did again. Just 10-15 mills are more than enough for a fully competitive effort.

mknight

31st July 2017, 08:44

Carry over from Citroen thread:

Ogier going to Citroen would be a letdown for me.

Since Ogier says he wants to stay at M-Sport it would mean that Ford is not coming back and they didn't get any big sponsor either, that would mean M-Sport goes into "savings/money making" mode like in 2003-2005. So a lineup like Suninen, Evans, Camilli and not much development. With all respect to them they won't be title contenders like that.

In the interview broadcasted on rally radio during NRF, Malcolm said that they can not offer Ogier the "package" he wants at the moment and that he also has to look after his 300 staff economically and can not continue like they did this season.

The Loeb testing story makes me doubt Ogier at Citroen will happen though as I still don't see those two being anywhere near each other.

But if Ogier goes Toyota, it's maybe even worse cause it starts to smell like VW dominance again.

OldF

31st July 2017, 14:52

New engine? They're allowed to change engines mid season?

Homologation joker

I doubt that they can homologate a complete engine with a joker.

Citroen explains 2017 engine, pages 44-45: https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_october_2016

“We can make changes, but some parts of the engine are frozen by the regulations for three years.”

http://kuvanjako.fi/kxbiu.jpg

The teams can use three engines during a season per allocated car number.

2017 WRC Sporting Regulations and Appendices (English) - 28.06.2017
http://www.fia.com/file/59144/download/9275?token=9rMSotoz

64. MECHANICAL COMPONENTS – MANUFACTURERS' CARS NOMINATED FOR SCORING MANUFACTURERS' POINTS
64.1 LIMITATION OF THE NUMBER OF ENGINES
64.1.1 Each Manufacturer must use no more than 3 engines per seasonally allocated car number for the season (see also Art. 64.2.2).
64.1.2 Each engine will be assigned to a seasonally allocated car number.
64.1.3 A Manufacturer may apply to the FIA for a waiver to use 1 additional engine per team during the year, giving full justification for the request. Once sealed, this engine will be assigned to a seasonally allocated car number.
64.1.4 In the case of engine failure between scrutineering and TC0 it is permitted to replace the engine but a 5-minute penalty will be applied. In this case, the original engine may not be used any further during the season.
64.1.5 At any one time, no more than 3 engines may be sealed per seasonally allocated car number.

AnttiL

31st July 2017, 15:04

Well maybe media saying Toyota "has a new engine" means it just has some newly homologated parts?

racerx1979

31st July 2017, 17:21

Exactly what I thought. You're not allowed to change engines. Just certain components.

Daviesalaam

2nd August 2017, 09:25

That was from Latvala Interview before morning stages Day 2

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AnttiL

2nd August 2017, 10:49

Added Evans to M-Sport lineup in the opening post.

EstWRC

2nd August 2017, 10:51

this was posted in news thread but i think it belongs here

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGNj8ssW0AAKTyf?format=jpg&name=large

i think we can assume then that one of the main m-sport drivers is definitely gone and has signed a new deal elsewhere already?

Evans has surprised me a lot this season but im still cautious about him, last year he wasnt convincing against Lappi and Suninen in WRC2 and actually those two were also faster than him in finland. But he has definitely made progress and deserves a seat in WRC.

mknight

2nd August 2017, 11:10

i think we can assume then that one of the main m-sport drivers is definitely gone and has signed a new deal elsewhere already?

Why? This might mean Evans is going to continue with DMACK exactly the same like this year.

EstWRC

2nd August 2017, 11:13

of course but i doubt that both Ogier and Tänak will stay too, only if Ford comes back which doesnt seem to be the deal at the moment

AnttiL

2nd August 2017, 11:14

My first thought was the same as EstWRC's. Why would they want to start reserving third driver seats so early if they are assuming the first and second drivers are going to continue? I'd assume Evans being the second driver next year and Suninen driving for DMack.

mknight

2nd August 2017, 11:21

Well as I wrote before I don't think we will see any news about drivers changing teams before much later in the season, for PR and contract reasons.

All we will get early is contract extensions, which we can use to speculate.

On this particular one I am not sure, if Evans is still going to pay like he does this year it surely is a good idea to sign him early and might even help secure Ogier.

seb_sh

2nd August 2017, 11:42

I think it's too early to take any conclusions from this. Evans was pretty solid this year and he is a good choice to be part of a 3 car team. Ideally as 3rd driver but could be promoted to 2nd and have Suninen 3rd if MSport remains with only 1 lead driver. Tanak or Ogier or maybe Mikkelsen if they both go somewhere else. Still there are two elephants in the room, actually just outside of it, that a lot of things depend on: Ford and Loeb.

Andre Oliveira

2nd August 2017, 11:52

2018 could be like that?

Ford M-Sport WRT
Ogier
Suninen
Evans

Hyundai Motorsport
Neuville
Sordo
Paddon

Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT
Latvala
Tänak
Lappi

Citroën Total Abu Dhabi WRT
Loeb
Meeke
Breen / Lefebvre
Al-Qassimi

Drive DMACK M-Sport WRT
Mikkelsen

ONEBET Jipocar WRT
Prokop
Østberg

mknight

2nd August 2017, 11:56

Andre Oliveira

2nd August 2017, 12:00

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/20476250_1822424054453680_2416932871087548539_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=98118e7476a46d1ecc3ba41beffc9f60&oe=5A012398

Simmi

2nd August 2017, 12:24

2018 could be like that?

Ford M-Sport WRT
Ogier
Suninen
Evans

Drive DMACK M-Sport WRT
Mikkelsen

I think the Dmack third 'works' car has proven to be pretty good this year for M-Sport this year. Is there any evidence that they would run a fourth car?

seb_sh

2nd August 2017, 12:27

Given Wilson's comments, unless Ford come back with serious cash or they find a big sponsor I assume they will run the minimum cars themselves and any extra would need to be payed for.

In my opinion the worst case scenario is 1 pure MSport car and 1 DMACK.

dimviii

2nd August 2017, 12:29

is it sure that Evans pay to drive?

jparker

2nd August 2017, 12:33

No...

Mikkelsen was offered DMACK seat last year before Evans and refused cause he didn't want to pay. So the idea that he would accept it this year while Evans drives main m-sport is just wrong.

Also Loeb will never drive full season tbh, max 2-3 rallies for "fun".

He's not predicting, he's dreaming of Ogier with M-Sport :D

AnttiL

2nd August 2017, 12:55

is it sure that Evans pay to drive?

I imagined Evans only pays through DMack sponsor money. What about Tänak?

tomhlord

2nd August 2017, 13:12

is it sure that Evans pay to drive?

DMack is paying for the car, hire Evans on a free, who has personal sponsor Red Bull to pay a wage to live from. Fingers crossed for some extra M-Sport backers in 2018.

mknight

2nd August 2017, 14:37

is it sure that Evans pay to drive?

In the published interview from January Mikkelsen said that he was offered DMACK spot for 2017 before Evans on the condition that he would bring money. Whether that means money for his own salary or something else it didn't say.

If what tomhlord says it's true it means that M-Sports cost for DMACK and Evans are 0.

er88

2nd August 2017, 15:55

No...

Mikkelsen was offered DMACK seat last year before Evans and refused cause he didn't want to pay. So the idea that he would accept it this year while Evans drives main m-sport is just wrong.

Also Loeb will never drive full season tbh, max 2-3 rallies for "fun".Andreas needs to accept he isn't in as much demand as he thinks he perhaps should be.

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Fast Eddie WRC

2nd August 2017, 16:14

Revman

2nd August 2017, 16:17

My preferred Toyota line up would be the Latvala, Tanak, Lappi team. Fabulous.

Fast Eddie WRC

2nd August 2017, 16:29

Evans to choose between Ford and Toyota for 2018 WRC !

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/evans-to-choose-between-ford-and-toyota-for-2018-wrc/

er88

2nd August 2017, 16:35

I said ages ago that Mikkelsen could find himself out of a drive for 2018 if he didnt get sorted quickly with a seat in 2017.

Everyone said no, he's such a great driver, he'll be in huge demand...

What you think now ?Germany will be a big event for Andreas. Can't be getting beat up time wise by Meeke or Breen, or it'll be 3 consecutive poor showings in the C3.

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EstWRC

2nd August 2017, 16:37

It's funny to me to read all this praise from team bosses based on one event.

I guess Ogier, Neuville, Tänak and Latvala will have hard times getting a seat for next year...

mknight

2nd August 2017, 17:00

It's funny to me to read all this praise from team bosses based on one event.

I guess Ogier, Neuville, Tänak and Latvala will have hard times getting a seat for next year...

This is exactly the first thing I thought.

I mean, the way the article is written it suggest that Makinen would rather have Evans than Ogier, Tanak or Mikkelsen (all without contract for next year). Also calling Evans a "youngster" at age of 29 and after he already had full wrc season 2 years ago.

Guess it's a product of the previously discussed British-jurno bias.

jparker

2nd August 2017, 17:02

I said ages ago that Mikkelsen could find himself out of a drive for 2018 if he didnt get sorted quickly with a seat in 2017.

Everyone said no, he's such a great driver, he'll be in huge demand...

What you think now ?

If Citroen don't get Ogier, Mikkelsen for sure will join them in 2018, so don't be so quick to judge.

BigWorm

2nd August 2017, 17:09

If Citroen don't get Ogier, Mikkelsen for sure will join them in 2018, so don't be so quick to judge.

Not so sure about that, Matton says Meeke, Breen and Lefebvre have deals for 2018 and that Citroën doesn't have a car for Loeb in 2018 yet, I would believe Citroën would welcome Loeb more than Mikkelsen.

AnttiL

2nd August 2017, 17:12

I mean, the way the article is written it suggest that Makinen would rather have Evans than Ogier, Tanak or Mikkelsen (all without contract for next year). Also calling Evans a "youngster" at age of 29 and after he already had full wrc season 2 years ago

Guess it's a product of the previously discussed British-jurno bias.

If David Evans called Mäkinen and asked if he's interested in signing [insert current factory driver], most likely he'll say yes to them all. And that's probably what the article is based on.

But seriously, Evans hasn't been that bad this season. He almost won Argentina. He made good stage times in Mexico, but his race was ruined by an engine switch and time penalty and thus driving first on the road. Also good times in Portugal but a puncture and a small off causing another puncture slowed him down. For the last ten stages of Monte he was always in top five. Some technical problems and an off in TDC. He was off the pace in Sweden, Poland and Sardegna, but it could be down the tires.

mmm

2nd August 2017, 17:17

Evans to choose between Ford and Toyota for 2018 WRC !

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/evans-to-choose-between-ford-and-toyota-for-2018-wrc/

This is some quality humor

jparker

2nd August 2017, 17:22

Not so sure about that, Matton says Meeke, Breen and Lefebvre have deals for 2018 and that Citroën doesn't have a car for Loeb in 2018 yet, I would believe Citroën would welcome Loeb more than Mikkelsen.

Loeb is too old for it. He will probably join them just as "consultant" for few events.

AnttiL

2nd August 2017, 17:27

Loeb is too old for it. He will probably join them just as "consultant" for few events.

Yeah. Citroen also has already plenty of drivers. Matton already said only Meeke will do a full season next year, which would fit in the picture of Loeb stepping in on some events, and Breen, Lefebvre and Al-Qassimi driving some events here and there. Not much space for Mikkelsen, who is anyway out of the team after Germany.

Allez Andruet

2nd August 2017, 19:56

If David Evans called Mäkinen and asked if he's interested in signing [insert current factory driver], most likely he'll say yes to them all. And that's probably what the article is based on.
Spot on.

Fast Eddie WRC

2nd August 2017, 20:33

If Citroen don't get Ogier, Mikkelsen for sure will join them in 2018, so don't be so quick to judge.

I didnt, it was others here that judged early. Things change very quickly in WRC as Mikkelsen found out last year.

jparker

3rd August 2017, 11:18

Germany will be a big event for Andreas. Can't be getting beat up time wise by Meeke or Breen, or it'll be 3 consecutive poor showings in the C3.

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Indeed. However, it will be a big event for Meeke as well.
Sometimes things in WRC are so unfair.
Both drivers have proven history, and now they have to race against each other with crappy car, just to show who is better. This is like gladiator battle.

mknight

3rd August 2017, 14:06

The battle of the crapcars speedwise for last 2 rallies:

Poland: Lefevbre~=Mikkelsen(best PS result for Citroen for whole year btw)>Breen
Finland: Breen>Meek

So Lefevbre is the best driver? (or maybe there just a bit more to it)

OldF

3rd August 2017, 14:27

Well maybe media saying Toyota "has a new engine" means it just has some newly homologated parts?

That’s the case. Maybe the drivers and team members of Toyota don’t want to or are not allowed to go into any details what has been done. As far as I know new mapping (different in different rallies) don’t need a use of a joker so the use of a joker must include some new parts as maybe new camshafts.

We had couple of our grandkids visiting us last week and it was not until yesterday I read the newspaper “Helsingin Sanomat” from last Friday. Also in that article is said that the Toyota’s have a new engine that has improved torque and driveability.

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005304604.html

I recorded the Harju 1 live to be able to watch the program later in peace. I don’t remember exactly what was said because I concentrated more on watching than listening but I remember they mentioned increased torque. I already deleted the program so I can’t check was what said.