2018 Teams

[Rally Power]

Evans to choose between Ford and Toyota for 2018 WRC !
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/evans-to-choose-between-ford-and-toyota-for-2018-wrc/

MN journo getting delusional, again...

The only interesting part of this piece is Makinen’s mention on Japan orders: “We have to talk to the Japanese about what they want from next year and we are doing that at the moment. We know more soon after that.” So, Mr, Toyoda actually has some saying on which driver the team will pick next season. Toyoda is used to think and act big; most likely he’ll go for Ogier.

[EstWRC]

now also Hyundai in Evans list, LOL...most wanted man at the moment.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/toyota-hyundai-interested-in-dmack-evans-937784/

[mknight]

now also Hyundai in Evans list, LOL...most wanted man at the moment.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/toyota-hyundai-interested-in-dmack-evans-937784/

So every time David Evans re-publishes his story he will add a team?

Really does he try to tell everyone that E. Evans was more wanted than Ogier, Tanak or Mikkelsen?

Also
"Hyundai has come close to signing Evans before – he would have driven for the Korean team if Thierry Neuville had gone elsewhere this season"

Surely this must mean before VW announced to pull out? Or is he again trying to say that Hyundai would prefer to have Sordo, Paddon and Evans rather than Ogier, Sordo, Paddon in 2017?

Note that Evans spend two full seasons in WRC, then got kicked to WRC2 for 2016 and ended 3rd behind Lappi and Sunninen. Surely based on that he was first pick for 2017.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans may not be the 'most wanted' in driving terms, but he might be the easiest in terms of availability and cost...

[AnttiL]

now also Hyundai in Evans list, LOL...most wanted man at the moment.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/toyota-hyundai-interested-in-dmack-evans-937784/

Now it's getting ridiculous..."Evans reckoned to be on his way to Hyundai to replace Sordo." reckoned by whom? And "team principal Michel Nandan says he will field an unchanged squad next year" like we all know and have known all along.

[Allez Andruet]

The only interesting part of this piece is Makinen’s mention on Japan orders: “We have to talk to the Japanese about what they want from next year and we are doing that at the moment. We know more soon after that.” So, Mr, Toyoda actually has some saying on which driver the team will pick next season. Toyoda is used to think and act big; most likely he’ll go for Ogier.
Naah... it was actually the same last year, Tommi was saying that back then as well. I don't necessarily buy it - Tommi just has various explanations in order to silence the discussion about 2018.

[EstWRC]

Now it's getting ridiculous..."Evans reckoned to be on his way to Hyundai to replace Sordo." reckoned by whom? And "team principal Michel Nandan says he will field an unchanged squad next year" like we all know and have known all along.

im sure that in next article theres also Citroen in the list...

[Andre Oliveira]

What about Nasser?

Qatar RedBull M-Sport WRT?

[macebig]

Qatar is in a lot of trouble right now. Backing Nasser's motorsports activities is probably very low on their priority list.

[Andre Oliveira]

They invested on Neymar transaction. 222 Million Euro

[EstWRC]

man you are really desperate to keep Ogier in Ford...he will drive for sure for some team in 2018, dont worry

[tomhlord]

But seriously, Evans hasn't been that bad this season. He almost won Argentina. He made good stage times in Mexico, but his race was ruined by an engine switch and time penalty and thus driving first on the road. Also good times in Portugal but a puncture and a small off causing another puncture slowed him down. For the last ten stages of Monte he was always in top five. Some technical problems and an off in TDC. He was off the pace in Sweden, Poland and Sardegna, but it could be down the tires.

Hasn't had the luxury of PETs before every round either.

[RS]

Looks like Ogier is heading for the title, why would he want to leave MSport unless he is motivated by money?

I can see Hyundai wanting to strengthen their team as they'll be annoyed at losing the manufacturers title. Maybe they'll go for Mikelssen as a fast and reliable pair of hands? Possibly at the expense of Sordo?

[er88]

Looks like Ogier is heading for the title, why would he want to leave MSport unless he is motivated by money?

I can see Hyundai wanting to strengthen their team as they'll be annoyed at losing the manufacturers title. Maybe they'll go for Mikelssen as a fast and reliable pair of hands? Possibly at the expense of Sordo?Ogier is worried about Msport struggling to keep up in the development race in future years if they don't get bigger backing.

I have a feeling Seb will agree a big deal with Citroen before Spain.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[RS]

Ogier is worried about Msport struggling to keep up in the development race in future years if they don't get bigger backing.

I have a feeling Seb will agree a big deal with Citroen before Spain.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Despite their history, going to Citroen is a bit of a gamble for anyone with the state of that car right now.

[AnttiL]

In a Finnish TV interview yesterday with Juho Hänninen

- How important is it to get a good result from here [Deutschland] regarding the future of your career?
- Hard to say, you need to ask someone else. Good results are always important. For me it was important to see I've got the pace, gives me confidence for the future

Kind of sounds like no matter how well he drives, there's no drives coming up next year.

[mknight]

Kind of sounds like no matter how well he drives, there's no drives coming up next year.

Imo the only option is to continue at Toyota with probably 1 year extension, can't see anyone else signing him, others will either go for proven value (Tanak, Mikkelsen) or for cheap/promising youth. Hanninen is "unproven"/uncertain performance and older (6 years older than Tanak, 8 over Mikkelsen, 10 over Lappi). So it's up to Tommi and/or Japanese.

------------------------------

During the Powerstage broadcast Julian Porter said the rumors in service park about Mikkelsen were that he was talking to Hyundai and Citroen about next year and that he also wanted to drive the last 3 rallies this year in the same car (from context that probably meant C3).

[N.O.T]

Kind of sounds like no matter how well he drives, there's no drives coming up next year.

Tanak will get a drive for sure... the pain will continue unfortunately for the finish manager kids.

[Sulland]

And Mikkelsens 2. Place on asphalt will not hurt in the coming negotiations!!

[racerx1979]

Hanninen can be Toyota's Sordo if he was a good finisher. I heard Tommi is fairly attached to Juho, but I'm sure final word will come from high up. Is anyone running a four car team next year?

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen on the Deutschland press conference:


Q:
This was an important result for Citroën but also for you. You said that Germany was your final event for Citroën. Do you have an update on whether you will appear in one of the remaining events this season?
AM:
I hope to do all the events. The important thing for me now is to find a place where we can fight for the championship next year. If this is for Citroën or not, I don’t know. But I have done three rallies with them and I enjoyed them. So let’s see if there are some more.

And Ogier:


Q:
You said that you wanted to have your future decided before the end of September. We have a little season break now so what will be happening in the next six weeks for you?
SO:
I am sure we will know much more in Spain. It would be great for M-Sport to get the full support again. What the team has achieved so far this year is amazing. It has a good lead in the Manufacturers’ Championship as a private team. It would be good to see their efforts rewarded.

Q:
So if the team got the manufacturer funding you would stay?
SO:
Yes, I always mentioned it. It is never easy to switch teams every year. I needed some time this year to get used to the team and the car. This always takes some time. If I could continue and build on what we did this year, I am sure we would be strong. But I also think that we would need a little bit more support to be where I want to be.

And Wilson



Q:
Success in the WRC, but also success in the WRC 2 with Eric Camilli taking a win as well, so this has been good for the brand?
MW:
Eric had a great rally and he is really showing the promise that we all know he has got. He is really a solid professional driver. This win will further lift his confidence so hopefully Eric can go on to better things as well.

Q:
What will be going on during the upcoming six week break to keep that fantastic line-up of drivers that you have?
MW:
The results tell you that we have a great driver line-up. I would really love to retain all the guys. Whether this is achievable, I genuinely don’t know. If it was all in my power, that is what I would definitely like to be doing.

And Tidemand


Q:
So, what happens for the rest of the season? What’s next for Pontus Tidemand?
PT:
For sure, Rally GB and also some testing. We don’t know yet about Rally Spain.

Q:
Will you remain in WRC 2 and defend your title? Or will you be moving on to other things?
PT:
I Iive in the moment. No idea.

Q:
What would you like to do, Pontus?
PT:
What do you think?

Q:
A nice World Rally Car would be good, right?
PT:
Yes, that would be good. Soon, it should be time to take this step up. We will see. We’ll just keep working hard and need to get the chance.

[EightGear]

Tanak will get a drive for sure... the pain will continue unfortunately for the finish manager kids.He was talking about Hanninen.

[EstWRC]

He was talking about Hanninen.

i think that NOT meant that Tänak will get Hanninens drive.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/08/20/kris-meeke-erneut-auf-dem-abstellgleis/

Matton saying something like they want to plan their future with the drivers nominated for Spain.

[AnttiL]

Matton again


There are a few rumours going around the service park regarding potential driver transfers for 2018. What is your position on this issue?

"I think everyone knows that the next month is likely to be a busy period as regards driver transfers. As is the case with the development of the car, the priority is to prepare for 2018. We now have a break in the WRC calendar, so we are going to use the month of September to draw up our strategy. In doing so, we are talking to the drivers who could help up to reach our goals. For the time being, nothing has been decided."

http://int-media.citroen.com/en/citro%C3%ABn-meets-its-targets-germany

[AnttiL]

Again news in Finnish (probably translated from somewhere, cannot find the original) http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=1-2&ID=345467

but Ogier says he's talking to everyone and says about next year "Depends on the budget what a team can do. I'm trying to get the best possible car for next year. I started with Citroen and wouldn't be here without them and I'm talking with them. It's possible but nothing more to say now"

EDIT: Ogier also says he doesn't believe in Loeb returning fully, but maybe doing a single rally, and then concludes with "you never know, he has often said Rally is the best"

[mknight]

Big dilemma for Ogier there.

Risk going to Citroen and possibly struggle developing the car on gravel? But potentially he can then "outshine" Loeb by winning titles with 3 manufacturers including Citroen.

Or stay at Ford with a now quite developed car. Even without much extra money Fiesta will sure be very good for most of 2018.

Could opt for 1 year extension at M-Sport and see how things work out at Citroen.

[AnttiL]

Finnish interview with Mäkinen http://www.ts.fi/urheilu/moottoriurheilu/ralli/3624487/Makisen+kuskiratkaisut+viela+tekematta

- In the service park rumours Latvala and Lappi are quite confirmed to continue with Toyota. Instead, Hänninen is believed to get fired, but the good results from the previous rallies could change plans. Or can they, team boss Mäkinen?
- I cannot comment on that quite yet. We haven't made final solutions. There's a long break from rallies and time to think about these things. Also we must ask the opinion of Japan

At the same time, Latvala says he will continue with a WRC car built in Finland without saying the brand directly https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9787178

[EstWRC]

for me it sounds like Ogier to Citroen then. especially when admitting he is talking to them and thanking them from previous years.
i dont see any other option for him anyway besides msport too but Ford aint coming back.

they will sort out the car sooner than later, i dont think Ogier is too bothered with that.

[AnttiL]

It's interesting indeed if both Tänak and Ogier leave M-Sport. It will change M-Sport's profile drastically after being so dominant in 2017, especially if they're replaced with young drivers like Suninen and Camilli

[seb_sh]

Indeed I also think if Ford doesn't come back Ogier will go to Citroen. He said he would go to a manufacturer if Ford doesn't come back when he joined. It could also be that he is saying this publicly often to put pressure on Ford but that's just speculation on my part.

Indeed with 3 manufacturers committed it's hard for MSport to attract top drivers. Malcolm himself said more or less that he's putting savings into this year and can't do it again so most likely that means the car will slowly fall behind and they will do less preparations etc.

Maybe it's time to look at the potential teams again if we are to go with the latest rumors:
MSport: Evans, Camilli, Sunninen
Hyundai: Neuville, Sordo, Paddon
Toyota: Latvala, Tanak, Lappi
Citroen: Ogier, Meeke, Breen/Lefebvre sharing

That would kinda make Hyundai have the 3rd best lineup, but the 3 manufacturer teams would be close. It would also be interesting to see if any of them would run 4 cars more often.

Edit: d'oh I forgot Mikkelsen, but again he depends on Ogier I think.

[rallye-vid]

Well, Ogier and everyone else know C3 fails on gravel. Will he go for it then? He isn't a p5-p10 driver...

[mknight]

Indeed with 3 manufacturers committed it's hard for MSport to attract top drivers. Malcolm himself said more or less that he's putting savings into this year and can't do it again so most likely that means the car will slowly fall behind and they will do less preparations etc.


If they are also refusing to pay enough even for Tanak or Mikkelsen it will follow the previous fiesta story.
In 2011 when it came it was a top car, especially on gravel where it even seemed better than DS3. By 2016 it was clearly the slowest car...in a way also with comparatively weakest driver lineup.

Also worth mentioning is how the DS3 seemingly improved compared with Polo between 2014-2016. That's imo what Ogier is talking about, you need continuing commitment/money for development and testing to stay on top.

[AnttiL]

Edit: d'oh I forgot Mikkelsen, but again he depends on Ogier I think.

Mikkelsen was rumored to be negotiating with Hyundai and Citroen. His Germany result came in the perfect time.

I could see both Ogier and Mikkelsen going to Citroen. Maybe the relationship between Meeke and Citroen is so venomous at this point that it does only bad for both parties, that they should just break off the contract. Would Meeke drive for M-Sport? Retire and go to WRX?

Or then would Paddon and Sordo share the third car if Mikkelsen went to Hyundai? Would they put Paddon to gain experience in an R5 or retire Sordo? Neither of them have been extremely bad, but not really very good either.

[WUff1]

If Ogier goes to Citroen, I don´t see any space left there for Mikkelsen. His only chance then would be M-Sport, if also Tänak leaves for Toyota. MW isn´t stupid to go for 2018 with Evans, Suninen and Camilli.

At any rate I see Mikkelsen´s future in WRC still in jeopardy.

[mknight]

MW isn´t stupid to go for 2018 with Evans, Suninen and Camilli.



He has done things like that both in 2003 (from McRae +Sainz to unknown Duval +Martin) and 2005 (from by then established Duval and Martin to Gardermeister+Kresta).

Both were during development period for new cars though so that's different. But both were periods where they needed extra money, so some similarities are there.

[KKS]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/08/20/kris-meeke-erneut-auf-dem-abstellgleis/

Matton saying something like they want to plan their future with the drivers nominated for Spain.
So no Ogier at Citroen at 2018?

[Arwel Davies]

I think there are so many uncertainties at the moment that its going to be tough to call. A lot depends on Ogier and his decision. He will have made his mind up before Spain in October and that decision depends on Ford coming back as a manufacturer. If they do, he will stay, if they don't then he will be at Citroen. If he does go that leaves at least one seat open and M-sport, I am expecting Tanak to also leave and go to Toyota should Ford not commit to the WRC. Mikkelsen could still find himself without a drive should Ogier go to Citroen, I believe Citroen see him as a plan B to getting Ogier. That would leave options for Mikkelsen at M-sport but after testing the I20 earlier in the year, I would think he would be more likely to end up at Hyundai should he not sign with Citroen. Below are my guesses at 2018

Ford
Ogier
Tanak
Evans

Citroen
Mikkelsen
Meeke
Breen

Toyota
Latvala
Lappi
Haninnen

Hyundai

Neuville
Paddon
Sordo

Or

M-sport
Evans
Camili
Suninen

Citroen
Ogier
Meeke
Breen

Hyundai
Neuville
Mikkelsen
Paddon/Sordo

Toyota
Latvala
Tanak
Lappi

[AnttiL]

Ford
Ogier
Tanak
Evans

Citroen
Mikkelsen
Meeke
Breen

Toyota
Latvala
Lappi
Haninnen

Hyundai

Neuville
Paddon
Sordo

Hänninen would probably be switched for Suninen in this scenario. Or Tänak to Toyota and Suninen to Ford.

[dimviii]

If they are also refusing to pay enough even for Tanak or Mikkelsen it will follow the previous fiesta story.
In 2011 when it came it was a top car, especially on gravel where it even seemed better than DS3. By 2016 it was clearly the slowest car...in a way also with comparatively weakest driver lineup.

Also worth mentioning is how the DS3 seemingly improved compared with Polo between 2014-2016. That's imo what Ogier is talking about, you need continuing commitment/money for development and testing to stay on top.

fiesta never was slow car,actyally was up to the game with rivals,and much easier to setup.
Differences you are talking belongs at 99% to drivers.Same with Polo era vs fiesta and ds3.

[mknight]

fiesta never was slow car,actyally was up to the game with rivals,and much easier to setup.
Differences you are talking belongs at 99% to drivers.Same with Polo era vs fiesta and ds3.

I'd say there was a clear difference in performance over time, not that it was slow, just that it was slower vs competition than in the first year. Also compare Østberg in DS3 and next year same driver with Fiesta. Certainly much of the "difference" can come from the eye of the beholder.

However, Ogier said clearly why he wanted factory support. To keep the development/testing up to stay competitive. Since all teams except M-Sport are factory teams, there was only one recent example to go by for him.

[dimviii]

However, Ogier said clearly why he wanted factory support. To keep the development/testing up to stay competitive. Since all teams except M-Sport are factory teams, there was only one recent example to go by for him.

while Ogier wants to be champion,that is not wanted without a proper salary.
Ogier if he left M sport will be for money,not because fiesta will not evolute as c3 or i20.
Plenty of years without Ford money,and they were up to top level,at wrc,at r5,at everything they build.
Of course Malcolm has to push through interviews,for Ford money.

[Tarmop]

Well, they didn`t spend so much on constant development as the others that`s for sure (there were some factual numbers, which showed that quite well). They were up there but mostly because some events weren`t so demanding and/or drivers were comfortable. Not that i am saying they had a bad car. As for the salary, i think that could be managed by sponsors and he has said it himself, that it`s not the main thing, title winning equipment is and he also would like to stay in one team. Everything else is more expensive, know-how, machinery, development+ cars. In recent private years each car was used for the whole season and beyond (00050th served both Evans and Ostberg), with some older cars in reserve. Today Ogier has his third car, Tänak second...

[tommeke_B]

If you look at how quick the Fiesta was in Sardinia, Poland, Finland and Germany, I think it's unfair to say that it's behind in terms of development... I would even say it differently. I think Hyundai started the year with some advantage, and for me it seems they lost it.

[Tarmop]

It`s not about now, it`s about next year, as MW said that he is using his own savings this season and they can`t continue this next year.

[Rally Power]

Yep, MSport can be Ogier first choice if Ford fully supports, or not even the last one if it doesn’t. Without Ford money Wilson can’t reasonably keep Ogier on the team; the French hardly will accept another year of reduced salary and would probably demand costly car developments, in order to make it more suitable to his driving style.

Besides Ford, any of the other manus can still be a option for him:

Citroen looks like an emotional choice. The opportunity to drive the French team into a new winning path and to become a national hero like Loeb, is probably the strongest motivation to go back.

Toyota would be the money choice. We know that Makinen tends to Tanak, but Mr. Toyoda also has a say and knowing that the 4 (near 5) times champ is available can be quite irresistible.

Hyundai would be the rational choice. They’re currently the best team and got the best car. Nadan is always saying that their drivers are under contract for 2018, but we know contracts aren’t bulletproof. Getting the guy that managed to took them away two certain titles is their best ticket to finally become champs.

Anyway, besides the best season for ages, we’re also having a quite entertaining WRC summer break…

[EstWRC]

i havent seen mentioned it here but MIkkelsen saying on Red Bull TV Sunday highlights that he will definitely drive this year again.

about next year he says the things will be decided in next two weeks or definitely in a month. not speaking about himself but overall about all drivers etc.

at least we will have an interesting summer break time.

[racerx1979]

Would be interesting to see Andreas do a drive or with a different car before 2017 is done.

[mknight]

i havent seen mentioned it here but MIkkelsen saying on Red Bull TV Sunday highlights that he will definitely drive this year again.



It goes like this:
Q: "Will we see you in (the?) car again this year"

A:"Yeah, I do believe that."

(around 33:15 here:
https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1QJDHSF851W11/recap-germany-day-3?playlist=AP-1Q84GS5E51W11:live_programs )

[EstWRC]

Yes but as you see he is saying it very confidently

[Munkvy]

Didn't Sordo say if he wasn't competitive he would retire? Shouldn't someone be asking him if he feels competitive? I wonder if perhaps his plan was to retire on a high, after doing well at Germany this year? Of course, this is all conjecture.

As for Sunninen, he performed well on one rally, although got incredibly lucky to not DNF on the last day. I am not sure that's enough for a factory seat? Especially when you follow it up with such a poor performance at Germany? Maybe he might get lucky and get a Dmack seat, but unless he has a lot of money behind him (does he?) surely he won't get a main seat anywhere?

[er88]

Didn't Sordo say if he wasn't competitive he would retire? Shouldn't someone be asking him if he feels competitive? I wonder if perhaps his plan was to retire on a high, after doing well at Germany this year? Of course, this is all conjecture.

As for Sunninen, he performed well on one rally, although got incredibly lucky to not DNF on the last day. I am not sure that's enough for a factory seat? Especially when you follow it up with such a poor performance at Germany? Maybe he might get lucky and get a Dmack seat, but unless he has a lot of money behind him (does he?) surely he won't get a main seat anywhere?If Ogier goes to Citroen (very likely) and Tanak to Toyota (likely), then Suninen could definitely find himself with a seat at Msport.

Sordo could well have his contract bought out if Hyundai want to sign Mikkelsen (and can't run a 4th car), but imo it would be harsh on Sordo this year as it's Paddon's horrible form that has cost the team the manufacturers title, not Sordo. Sordo has done what he always does, rarely trouble the top places and score pts on most rounds.

Paddon needs a strong end to the season to give him some confidence going into 2018, because he can't afford another year like this one. Neuville lost his mojo for a while in similar fashion, but he bounced back and repaid Hyundai's faith by becoming a title challenger and their undisputed main driver. Paddon's form since that superb win in Argentina is now a big worry.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[pantealex]

As for Sunninen, he performed well on one rally

Poland or Finland ?

I think he did well in both and those are his only rallies with WRC in his career. He has more points than Lefebvre or Östberg and next to Meeke...
Maybe he is not ready for full season but almost ready for sure ;)

Suninen (and K.Rovanperä) have Timo Jouhki as manager, so money is not problem.

[Simmi]

As for Suninen, he performed well on one rally, although got incredibly lucky to not DNF on the last day. I am not sure that's enough for a factory seat? Especially when you follow it up with such a poor performance at Germany? Maybe he might get lucky and get a Dmack seat, but unless he has a lot of money behind him (does he?) surely he won't get a main seat anywhere?

Mate he's had literally two starts in a WRC car and was setting fastest stage times immediately with scant testing. Teams would be crazy not to be taking a look at him for the future.

[mknight]

Mate he's had literally two starts in a WRC car and was setting fastest stage times immediately with scant testing. Teams would be crazy not to be taking a look at him for the future.

Yes and before as well as after that he was 3-4th fastest R5...

Sure look at him for the future, but full season in WRC really can come too early, especially if it's not a part of multi-year effort like for example Ogier had at Citroen.
Better come and stay later than come on "temporary" financing and drop down like so many others with possibly uncertain future or lost 2-3 years. Examples: Hirvonen (same manager as Suninen), Tanak, Evans, Camilli...and these are only the examples that made it back or are recent, those that did not made it back are mostly forgotten.

[AnttiL]

Yeah it's true that Suninen is still rather inexperienced, exactly two years ago he had just had his first rally in an R5 car and was still doing part of the year in an R3 car. And he's only 23 as well, a full year with R5 learning the rallies wouldn't do bad, but will the team bosses remember him next year anymore?

Also, regarding his results in WRC2, he's fighting against Skoda works team on his own budget with most likely less testing, and the Fiesta is not as good as the Fabia. But he started his season with three second places, not bad at all...

[Munkvy]

Mate he's had literally two starts in a WRC car and was setting fastest stage times immediately with scant testing. Teams would be crazy not to be taking a look at him for the future.

Yet the very next event he gets trounced by Camilli...? I feel he is too inconsistent to warrant a full time drive based on his results. I am not disputing he has shown some flashes of greatness however.

[seb_sh]

Yet the very next event he gets trounced by Camilli...? I feel he is too inconsistent to warrant a full time drive based on his results. I am not disputing he has shown some flashes of greatness however.

That's a fair point he may need more time in the R5 to mature with occasional WRC outings instead of a full season drive.

[steve.mandzij]

Yet the very next event he gets trounced by Camilli...? I feel he is too inconsistent to warrant a full time drive based on his results. I am not disputing he has shown some flashes of greatness however.I said this a few months ago and I don't take it back, Camilli has really improved this year. His R5 results have been impressive.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

I said this a few months ago and I don't take it back, Camilli has really improved this year. His R5 results have been impressive.

The beginning of the season wasn't impressive, but after Sardegna he has been good.

[Simmi]

Not sure if it's been posted yet but the Swedish press have been chatting to Tidemand's management.

http://www.vf.se/rally/tidemands-manager-pratar-med-wrc-team/

M-Sport appears the best bet, with Veiby saying they could potentially lose all three drivers next year.

[mknight]

Not sure if it's been posted yet but the Swedish press have been chatting to Tidemand's management.

http://www.vf.se/rally/tidemands-manager-pratar-med-wrc-team/

M-Sport appears the best bet, with Veiby saying they could potentially lose all three drivers next year.

There are other interesting points and claims from him:

- He claims none of his drivers pay or paid for a drive, saying "If you become a pay driver you stay that rest of your life" and gives an example of DMACK wanting them to bring money with Mikkelsen for 2016
- it's not so sure all drivers will stay at Hyundai
- Tommi said he is interested in Tanak or Mikkelsen (well that ain't exactly a surprise, though it removes any Ogier doubts)
- Skoda has an option for 1 more year, so it's likely for PT if he doesn't get WRC seat

Afaik E. Veiby is manager for:
Mikkelsen, Lappi, Tidemand and Veiby

[Rally Power]

Yet the very next event he gets trounced by Camilli...? I feel he is too inconsistent to warrant a full time drive based on his results. I am not disputing he has shown some flashes of greatness however.

To say that Suninen was trounced by Camilli in Germany is quite an overstatement. Despite the tarmac experience difference, Suninen was only 9s behind Camilli at the end of leg 1. He got 2 punctures during leg 2 and after recovering to P4 he did a mistake in one of Sunday’s stages, getting stuck on a ditch for over 1m. Looking at his trouble free SS times (and the Corsica ones, btw) we can only praise his tarmac speed improvement. He’s now on his 3rd WRC2 season and was always one of the fastest there, plus he was astonishingly impressive on his WRC first outings; he’s more than ready to be in WRC next year.

[Simmi]

Camilli broke his suspension on a kerb on the opening evening which has flown under the radar a bit. Happened right in front of me and he was lucky to get away with minimal time loss. I don't think he 'trounced' anyone.

[Myrvold]

Camilli broke his suspension on a kerb on the opening evening which has flown under the radar a bit. Happened right in front of me and he was lucky to get away with minimal time loss. I don't think he 'trounced' anyone.

Didn't he hit Greensmith as well in a hairpin?

[Munkvy]

To say that Suninen was trounced by Camilli in Germany is quite an overstatement. Despite the tarmac experience difference, Suninen was only 9s behind Camilli at the end of leg 1. He got 2 punctures during leg 2 and after recovering to P4 he did a mistake in one of Sunday’s stages, getting stuck on a ditch for over 1m. Looking at his trouble free SS times (and the Corsica ones, btw) we can only praise his tarmac speed improvement. He’s now on his 3rd WRC2 season and was always one of the fastest there, plus he was astonishingly impressive on his WRC first outings; he’s more than ready to be in WRC next year.

99% of the time punctures are the drivers fault. So using that as an excuse for coming 7th in WRC2 is not realistic. Regardless of how well you perform in a super special, if you can't keep it on the road for a whole rally, then you have room to improve.

Hence I believe he still has room to improve to be a more balanced driver, not necessarily a faster driver, just better at managing the risks, then he will be ready for a WRC seat. Otherwise I fear for him that he will just become another Novikov or Camilli. Lots of balls, and some big bills.

[stefanvv]

99% of the time punctures are the drivers fault.

True, but on Panzerplatte lot of drivers had punctures out of nowhere.

[Simmi]

Didn't he hit Greensmith as well in a hairpin?

That was Loubet. Same livery though.

[fegh]

http://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/citroen-discute-avec-loeb-et-ogier-188150.html

As per autohebdo, Citroen is discussing with Ogier and Loeb for 2018 (Loeb is interested in a partial program)

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[Andre Oliveira]

Same news repeated several times....

[Simmi]

Some potentially big news in MN which impacts the driver market.

The WRC commission are discussing whether to implement a rule which allows teams to have three points scoring cars for the manufacturer championship from a possible four nominated drivers. (Right now it's 2 from 3). Which means it will be in the interests of teams to run a fourth car.

[fegh]

Same news repeated several times....Sorry....

Sent from my HTC Desire 10 pro using Tapatalk

[mknight]

Some potentially big news in MN which impacts the driver market.

The WRC commission are discussing whether to implement a rule which allows teams to have three points scoring cars for the manufacturer championship from a possible four nominated drivers. (Right now it's 2 from 3). Which means it will be in the interests of teams to run a fourth car.

That does seem as a rather drastic push that will increase costs, but obviously manufacturers can still keep running 3 cars, it also partly blocks other teams from points if all 3 finish.

I'd first implement what Nandan suggested, that is M-nominated cars that don't score points (because they are 3rd from same team), block other M cars from these points.

Example from Germany:
- Evans and Lappi were M-nominated but since both were 3rd car from their team they didn't score points and didn't count in results which is why Paddon got points for 7th M-place, and Sordo for 8th

- with "blocking" Paddon would get M-points for 8th and Sordo for 10th

There is always also the option of allowing 4 cars to be nominated but only count 2 best places. That gives some incentive for 4th car but doesn't make it necessary.

[dimviii]

Matton admitted his focus was more on 2018 and organising his team for next season rather than on the next three rallies. Asked if Meeke remained part of those plans, he replied: “He has a contract and he is part of the team.”
The final decision on Meeke’s future is, however, out of Matton’s hands. PSA Peugeot Citroen CEO Carlos Tavares will decide who drives for the Versailles team.

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meekes-future-with-citroen-to-be-decided/

[jparker]

Matton admitted his focus was more on 2018 and organising his team for next season rather than on the next three rallies. Asked if Meeke remained part of those plans, he replied: “He has a contract and he is part of the team.”
The final decision on Meeke’s future is, however, out of Matton’s hands. PSA Peugeot Citroen CEO Carlos Tavares will decide who drives for the Versailles team.

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meekes-future-with-citroen-to-be-decided/

The following 3 events are very valuable as preparation for next year.

[racerx1979]

The following 3 events are very valuable as preparation for next year.

Agreeg! Especially when the amount of time between Australia and Monte is around two months or less.

[Rally Power]

Matton admitted his focus was more on 2018 and organising his team for next season rather than on the next three rallies. Asked if Meeke remained part of those plans, he replied: “He has a contract and he is part of the team.”
The final decision on Meeke’s future is, however, out of Matton’s hands. PSA Peugeot Citroen CEO Carlos Tavares will decide who drives for the Versailles team.
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meekes-future-with-citroen-to-be-decided/

The mention to Mr. Tavares is the confirmation that drivers changes will occur. Current drivers have 2018 contracts, so there was no need for PSA CEO approval on them. His intervention is probably linked with the extra money needed to sign Ogier. Anyway, I really hope Carlos Tavares will be able to help Citroen Racing in a more active way and he won’t just decide the driver’s line up; the team management also seems to need a reform…

[GravelBen]

That does seem as a rather drastic push that will increase costs, but obviously manufacturers can still keep running 3 cars, it also partly blocks other teams from points if all 3 finish.

How would the cost of runbing another car for the whole season compare with the cost of travelling to another event like they keep complaining about?

[seb_sh]

How would the cost of runbing another car for the whole season compare with the cost of travelling to another event like they keep complaining about?

I don't know any actual numbers but I remember in the mid 2000s most teams were running 3 or even 4 cars for 14 rallies. Then they moved to 16 rallies and everyone complained of the cost and downgraded to 2 cars. In a way it makes sense that it's cheaper to add a car to your team since all the logistics and equipment (aside from the car, extra spares and car specific personnel) is there already but if you add a rally you have to organize the whole shebang once more.

[AnttiL]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2017/ogier-future/page/4817--12-12-.html


I’ve done many years now and it’s always becoming harder and harder to go out of home, especially when you have a kid. It’s a lot of travel, a lot of stress. I’m relaxed with this but the truth is I’m working on it to find a solution to continue.

Does Ogier live in France? Would he be happier on Citroen with the team headquarters and most of the tests being closer to his home?

[dimviii]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2017/ogier-future/page/4817--12-12-.html



Does Ogier live in France? Would he be happier on Citroen with the team headquarters and most of the tests being closer to his home?
isn't his wife working at Germany?

[AnttiL]

isn't his wife working at Germany?

That's why I asked...and Hyundai hq is in Germany...

[JUF]

Does Ogier live in France? Would he be happier on Citroen with the team headquarters and most of the tests being closer to his home? As far as I know, Ogier lives with her in Munich.

[EstWRC]

So Hyundai it is then! Thread closed

[Andre Oliveira]

He lives in Lake of Constance, near Switzerland. Where he lives is irrelevant for the future.

[pantealex]

He lives in Lake of Constance, near Switzerland. Where he lives is irrelevant for the future.

Seems like ford fans are bit scared

:)

[rallye-vid]

Seems like ford fans are bit scared

:)

Only about Tänak ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Ahah not really ;)

[AnttiL]

In case anyone was still expecting to see Nasser's Polo project (he was supposed to retry it for 2018) , Colin Clark just told me on twitter that project is "dead and buried" https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/902081352341827584

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21232044_1857052757657476_3420060734986859126_n.jp g?oh=107c576e5c0e2216b18aa577c8793083&oe=5A52AB51

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.flis8-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/21317673_1857546897608062_1008697729969657879_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=c25849e6eedf7ebb88c11cddc39e7f47&oe=5A5D2B14

[dupanton]

So Ogier to Hyundai?? :o :o

[Oliverk]

Wilson to lose both his driver would be brutal. Or mby Ogiers leave would be a good thing for Tänak and Msports future together.

[Zeakiwi]

So Ogier to Hyundai?? :o :o

Not likely to be Camilli or Lefebvre???

[Zeakiwi]

Wilson to lose both his driver would be brutal. Or mby Ogiers leave would be a good thing for Tänak and Msports future together.

Would Tanak prefer the shorter commute to Finland?

[Simmi]

So Ogier to Hyundai?? :o :o

It's already been mentioned in another thread but that was a reference to Mikkelsen, not Ogier, from Colin Clark. Ogier isn't going to Hyundai.


I don't think...

[racerx1979]

It's already been mentioned in another thread but that was a reference to Mikkelsen, not Ogier, from Colin Clark. Ogier isn't going to Hyundai.


I don't think...

I guess what Colin is suggesting is Mikkellsen to be driving a Hyundai in Spain.

[dupanton]

I would guess:
Hyundai: Neuville, Mikkelsen, Paddon/Sordo share 3th car
M-Sport: Ogier, Evans, Suninen (just don't see Ogier at Citroën or Toyota)
Toyota: Latvala, Tanak, Lappi
Citroën: Breen, Lefebvre, Tidemand

Just a guess, based on my feeling and so probably wrong...

[Simmi]

I'd really like to do a 2018 guess lineup of my own but without knowing whether this four-car rule goes through I think it's impossible.

[rhm]

Is there still potential for teams to run four cars next season...

EDIT: was too slow - as above.

[AnttiL]

Is there still potential for teams to run four cars next season...

It's going to be decided soon.

I tweeted my own speculations for four car teams last week:

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/902843260695142400

Citroen: OGI-MEE-BRE-LEF
Hyundai: NEU-SOR-PAD-MIK
Toyota: LAT-TÄN-LAP-HÄN
M-Sport: EVA-ØST-SUN-CAM

[er88]

It's going to be decided soon.

I tweeted my own speculations for four car teams last week:

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/902843260695142400

Citroen: OGI-MEE-BRE-LEF
Hyundai: NEU-SOR-PAD-MIK
Toyota: LAT-TÄN-LAP-HÄN
M-Sport: EVA-ØST-SUN-CAMIf 4 car teams go through I think you'll be pretty much spot on. Shame that'll probably mean the end of Msport as a force, unless Suninen can really step up to the big time quickly on most events (or Evans gets his hands on Michelin rubber and kicks on too).

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[Simmi]

Agreed I think those lineups look good if that's the way the rules go. M-Sport will probably need to rope in Dmack again and privateers (Ostberg). But still some stories to be written I think.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If they go to a four-car rule that will really spoil things IMO. As it is with three-car teams it gives a nice balance and everyone has a chance. Four cars will just favour the richest.

[pantealex]

If they go to a four-car rule that will really spoil things IMO. As it is with three-car teams it gives a nice balance and everyone has a chance. Four cars will just favour the richest.

Running 4th car cost less than Ogier´s salary...

[er88]

If they go to a four-car rule that will really spoil things IMO. As it is with three-car teams it gives a nice balance and everyone has a chance. Four cars will just favour the richest.No, it will just hamper Msport which will be a shame and obviously a massive disappointment for you and the other huge Msport fans. But if Citroen announce Seb, the other three teams will all have absolutely superb lineups (even more so if Loeb stands in for Lefebrve in a few events).

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Running 4th car cost less than Ogier´s salary...

But you need to pay for a good driver to drive it. Cars dont score points on their own.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No, it will just hamper Msport which will be a shame and obviously a massive disappointment for you and the other huge Msport fans. But if Citroen announce Seb, the other three teams will all have absolutely superb lineups (even more so if Loeb stands in for Lefebrve in a few events).

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Whichever factory team gets Ogier (assuming he doesnt retire) will have a huge advantage so the supposed big team competition wont be that great.

If a four-cars rule comes in it will just be the factory teams wanting to get back at M-Sport for embarrassing them this season.

[er88]

Whichever factory team gets Ogier (assuming he doesnt retire) will have a huge advantage so the supposed big team competition wont be that great.

If a four-cars rule comes in it will just be the factory teams wanting to get back at M-Sport for embarrassing them this season.You underestimate what Tanak at Toyota and Neuville at Hyundai could do against Seb in an under strength c3. Even this year Neuville would've won the title had he not been an idiot in the first two events. Jari, Meeke, Mikkelsen will also have something to say, and that's before we mention Lappi and Paddon etc.

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[jparker]

Whichever factory team gets Ogier (assuming he doesnt retire) will have a huge advantage so the supposed big team competition wont be that great.
I'm glad you finally got it.


a four-cars rule comes in it will just be the factory teams wanting to get back at M-Sport for embarrassing them this season.
Paranoia already?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm glad you finally got it.
Paranoia already?

They were the weakest TEAM at the start of 2017 even with Ogier. And they produced and tested their car last.

Paranoia ? Ask yourself who wants 4-car teams and why ?

[Simmi]

Maybe someone with a bit of time on their hands (or who can be bothered) could work out what the manu champ would look like this year if you could score (and so block) points with three cars instead of two. Would Hyundai actually be beating M-Sport? I doubt it.

I think if the rule came in the fans would certainly benefit. More seats, more cars on stages. Bigger competition. It's important for the teams involved but personally I couldn't care less about the manufacturers title.

[EstWRC]

They were the weakest TEAM at the start of 2017 even with Ogier. And they produced and tested their car last.

Paranoia ? Ask yourself who wants 4-car teams and why ?


are you kidding me? how? i want a long explanation please.


To be honest my wish was that Ford would come back or some major sponsor would help Wilson and he could retain the same line-up. Tänak is getting on really well with Ogier and as you see M-sport is kicking everyones ass this season. Evans has also progressed and shows great speed. and i think they would have been even better next season.


But now it seems they will have a hard time next year.

[Simmi]

I think everyone would be gutted to see M-Sport get cleaned out. Just as much as everyone was so thrilled for them last year to get Ogier. They were too good - everyone noticed :(

I guess you can compare it to football. You develop players (like Tanak) and then without the financial support they go to a bigger club. At least in football you get a transfer fee. Wouldn't surprise me if Malcolm has something written into his deal with Ott (he saved his career multiple times and developed him) but that's pure speculation from me.

If nothing else at least this finally gives Malcolm some leverage with Ford. No way he can guarantee any form of success next year without his two top guys.

[jparker]

4 cars rule with existing point system will make retirement+rally2 more significant than currently is, hence better competition.

[er88]

I hate the current manufacturers points scoring system

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[RS]

What exactly is the proposal with the 4 car rule. Best 2 out of the 4 score, or still nominations?

[Simmi]

What exactly is the proposal with the 4 car rule. Best 2 out of the 4 score, or still nominations?

Best 3 from 4 score is what I saw written in Motorsport News last week.

[Eli]

I hate the current manufacturers points scoring system

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If they are going to have so many drivers in the teams why not go back to the 2003-2009 points system when you had 10 for the win and etc. etc.

[mknight]

Best 3 from 4 score is what I saw written in Motorsport News last week.

Yes and that is stupid imo cause it really forces teams to go with 4.

4 nominated and 2 scoring would be much better. Some rallies teams would run with 3, some with 4. Or if one team has more money and always uses 4 it's not much of an advantage vs 3 good drivers, if any.

[JUF]

Just a speculation, but I can see Dani Sordo ending up at the new team of Guerlain Chicherit in World RX. Maybe there is still a connection to Prodrive after the time when he was driving the Mini... :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

are you kidding me? how? i want a long explanation please.


To be honest my wish was that Ford would come back or some major sponsor would help Wilson and he could retain the same line-up. Tänak is getting on really well with Ogier and as you see M-sport is kicking everyones ass this season. Evans has also progressed and shows great speed. and i think they would have been even better next season.


But now it seems they will have a hard time next year.

Not got time for a long explanation but just think back to before the season started.

Hyundai had a great driver line-up. Citroen had taken a year out to prepare and test the C3. Even Toyota had built their car earlier and had a hugely bigger budget. Everyone thought M-Sport would struggle. Ogier was the man but had no time in the car. Tanak wasnt yet a proven winner. Evans was just back from R5 season.

[mknight]

Nah the pre-season speculation was Citroen>>Hyundai~M-Sport>>Toyota , but almost.

[Zeakiwi]

WRC could do with a few Formula one sponsors to run 4 car teams.
https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/01/03/what-did-formula-1-teams-spend-in-2016/

[RS]

Very much in support of the 4 car team rule. With three car teams there are still not enough seats for the amount of talent out there, and if a team can't afford four paid drivers they can always put their moneyed guys like Al Qassimi or Ostberg in the fourth car to mop up points.

[pantealex]

But you need to pay for a good driver to drive it. Cars dont score points on their own.

How much is Evans getting paid ? How about Suninen? Östberg?
Do you really think that those how are without contract want big money ? I´m pretty sure that Bonusmoney for good results is enough for them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How much is Evans getting paid ? How about Suninen? Östberg?
Do you really think that those how are without contract want big money ? I´m pretty sure that Bonusmoney for good results is enough for them.

I was talking about the cost of running a 4th car AND paying a driver.

Plus Ogier's salary for 2017 is a one-off paid by M.Wilson. That money will not be available again to fund a 4th official car in 2018.

[Rally Power]

I was talking about the cost of running a 4th car AND paying a driver.


It’s really hard to understand your objection to a possible 4 cars rule next year. Anyone should be delighted with it, because it means more official cars to watch and more opportunities for young drivers, making the series even more competitive.

Besides, MSport main target isn’t the manu title (Wilson said it many times) and they’re used to have paying drivers running on their team, so this probably won’t be a logistical and financial nightmare for MSport, like you're predicting.

[Andre Oliveira]

Let's put Mads scoring this year and you have 4 M-Sport WRC cars :)

[AnttiL]

If we assume three car teams, we have four paths to speculate now. Ford will either return or Ogier goes to Citroen, and Tänak can go to Toyota or stay at Ford/M-Sport.

1. Ford team returns
I don't see any changes happening to the current seats, except that Toyota may want to exchange Hänninen for Suninen. But it would be a risk with having two rather inexperienced drivers in the same team.

2. Ford team returns, but Tänak still goes to Toyota
This way, I would replace Tänak with Suninen, and Hänninen is left without a seat.

3. No Ford return, Tänak stays, Ogier goes to Citroen
Lefebvre is put aside to drive the C3 R5, Suninen sits in the DMack car with Evans and Tänak in the M-Sport cars. Hänninen gets to stay at Toyota.

4. No Ford return, Tänak goes to Toyota and Ogier goes to Citroen
Same as scenario 3, but Hänninen is now dropped for Tänak. M-Sport has one available seat, I'd assume Wilson puts Camilli there (he could also prefer Camilli to Suninen in scenarios 2-3). Or could this be Tidemand's chance? His manager didn't like the idea of having to pay for a drive...

Also in all above scenarios, Al-Qassimi and Loeb could drive Citroen here and there. And also I don't see any changes at the Hyundai camp, Paddon and Sordo would have to share the third car.

And I'd put my money on scenario 4...

[AnttiL]

Another interesting factor was posed by the Absolute Rally podcast. If Ogier goes to Citroen, will he hang on to the massive Red Bull sponsorship like at VW and M-Sport? And how would that fit in with Abu Dhabi? Would it just give Citroen more budget or would Qassimi take Abu Dhabi money to M-Sport?

[Archie Gillaine]

Isn't Red Bull just his personal sponsor? Not sure what the problem would be.

[pantealex]

1. Ford team returns
I don't see any changes happening to the current seats, except that Toyota may want to exchange Hänninen for Suninen. But it would be a risk with having two rather inexperienced drivers in the same team.

2. Ford team returns, but Tänak still goes to Toyota
This way, I would replace Tänak with Suninen, and Hänninen is left without a seat.

3. No Ford return, Tänak stays, Ogier goes to Citroen
Lefebvre is put aside to drive the C3 R5, Suninen sits in the DMack car with Evans and Tänak in the M-Sport cars. Hänninen gets to stay at Toyota.

4. No Ford return, Tänak goes to Toyota and Ogier goes to Citroen


1. Not going to happen

2. Possible

3. Also not true

4. This is also possible but I don´t want it to happen.

5. Ogier and Tänak to Toyota, my personal favourite ;)

6. No Ford return, Tänak goes to Toyota and Ogier stays M-Sport

For those original 4 options my answer is 2.
and reserve answer is 6. Number 5 maybe only my dream :)

[AnttiL]

5. Ogier and Tänak to Toyota, my personal favourite ;)

Would you drop Latvala or Lappi?


6. No Ford return, Tänak goes to Toyota and Ogier stays M-Sport

Ogier has said he wants to be at a factory team. And Wilson has said he cannot afford another 2017 season. Even if they got a big sponsor to fund Ogier's salary for 2018, they would still need more funds to further develop the car.

[mknight]

As numerous times before I am not in on the Suninen hype just yet.

- for money reasons it's probably more likely Camilli drives at M-Sport (but who knows how much Joukhi can bring for Suninen)
- for sporting reasons Tidemand is just as likely

It is entirely possible to get to WRC too early.

[AnttiL]

for money reasons it's probably more likely Camilli drives at M-Sport).

What does this mean? I thought Camilli was Wilson's "investment of the future" and his contract is ending at the end of 2017. His car has no external sponsor decals.

[rhm]

What does this mean? I thought Camilli was Wilson's "investment of the future" and his contract is ending at the end of 2017. His car has no external sponsor decals.

Camilli definitely has money. Apparently a backer in Monaco.

My bet is there won't be a Ford return, Ogier will go to Citroen, Tanak will go to Toyota.

It leaves MSport in a bit of bother as there aren't many rally winning drivers available. Evans and Ostberg are definitely reliable finishers but not going to win any titles with that line-up.


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[Simmi]

Again I just don't think there's much point speculating too much until we know 3 vs 4 cars. That literally changes everything.

I've seen a few people naturally assuming Paddon and Sordo share a car. Do you think Paddon will accept having to share a car for a season? I don't see that happening at all - but again, a fourth car solves everything.

Do people think that Loeb would still do 3-4 rallies at Citroen if Ogier is there? To what extent has time healed their relationship, and also, would Citroen still need that PR boost if they had Ogier and a #1 on the door?

[AnttiL]

Again I just don't think there's much point speculating too much until we know 3 vs 4 cars. That literally changes everything.

It doesn't really change that much anymore. Like said, Hyundai has four drivers. M-Sport has been regularly showing up with 4-5 Fiestas even though not all of them have been manu points scorers. Toyota has Hänninen and Citroen Lefebvre to put in the fourth car or to put aside if the rules allow only three cars.




I've seen a few people naturally assuming Paddon and Sordo share a car. Do you think Paddon will accept having to share a car for a season?

What other options does he have? Leave and go to New Zealand to have fun in an AP4 car? Get a budget for an M-Sport Fiesta?

Of course sharing the car could mean occasional four car outings in selected events, but still no full season for either Sordo nor Paddon.


Do people think that Loeb would still do 3-4 rallies at Citroen if Ogier is there? To what extent has time healed their relationship, and also, would Citroen still need that PR boost if they had Ogier and a #1 on the door?

Also interesting question considering it's nowhere near confirmed that Loeb would do any competitive WRC rallies anymore. But if he will, I don't think Citroen finds a problem with that, as it will still be a big PR boost even if Ogier is driving for them.

[Zeakiwi]

Hyundai should wake up and realise they need an official r5 asia pacific team (with hankook rally tyres http://www.hankookmotorsport.com/) to take some of the attention that the skoda mrf team gets for winning all the time.
I think hyundai might find it might take at least a season to gain the experience of the asia pacific rounds to compete with settings, conditions, logisitics etc
http://dealers.skoda-auto.com/663/en-IN skoda monte carlo etc
https://youtu.be/M-bQyZ7ZpNA mfr tyre tv ad

Paddon and reeves and an asian driver for the local fans. run the team out of aus where there are engineering facilities.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It’s really hard to understand your objection to a possible 4 cars rule next year. Anyone should be delighted with it, because it means more official cars to watch and more opportunities for young drivers, making the series even more competitive.

Besides, MSport main target isn’t the manu title (Wilson said it many times) and they’re used to have paying drivers running on their team, so this probably won’t be a logistical and financial nightmare for MSport, like you're predicting.

It's quite simple. If 4-cars comes in the best driver's will go to the three factory teams who can afford them. M-Sport will be left with juniors and paying gentlemen. They will have no chance in either championship.

[pantealex]

Would you drop Latvala or Lappi?

Ogier has said he wants to be at a factory team. And Wilson has said he cannot afford another 2017 season. Even if they got a big sponsor to fund Ogier's salary for 2018, they would still need more funds to further develop the car.

Latvala

Everyone has said many things, of course Ogier want´s factory seat, so does everyone else also.

[Archie Gillaine]

I've seen a few people naturally assuming Paddon and Sordo share a car. Do you think Paddon will accept having to share a car for a season? I don't see that happening at all - but again, a fourth car solves everything.



If there are only 3 cars then he might have to share with Sordo; his pace on Tarmac still isn't good enough. However, as you say, a fourth car would solve that issue. I still think he needs lots more Tarmac experience.

[steve.mandzij]

Latvala

Everyone has said many things, of course Ogier want´s factory seat, so does everyone else also.You would drop the guy who'd be in the championship fight had his car not broken down?

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[pantealex]

You would drop the guy who'd be in the championship fight had his car not broken down?

Yes.
and you would drop future world champion.

[Rally Power]

Camilli definitely has money. Apparently a backer in Monaco.

At the end of 2015 Wilson said Camilli was a personal bet and not a paying driver. He has a bunch of personal sponsors but none is visible on the car (like those of Suninen), which make believe they’re not running budget contributors. Behind one of those sponsors is Jacques Lions, a French rallyman from the early 70’s (still active in historic events) that owns a perfume company located in Grasse. Camilli has also been helped by other former drivers, like “Tchine” and Nicolas Bernardi.

Anyway, if MSport manages to keep Tanak or Evans alongside the talented Suninen and the reliable Ostberg, they’ll still be strong contenders next year. Fingers crossed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyway, if MSport manages to keep Tanak or Evans alongside the talented Suninen and the reliable Ostberg, they’ll still be strong contenders next year. Fingers crossed.

If Tanak (or Ogier) stays, yes. But with just Evans as No.1 with Suninen & Ostberg... no chance.

[er88]

Id like to see Msport run Evans, Suninen and a paying Ostberg in their team next year, with perhaps the Dmack car being shared by Camilli/ Tidemand across the full year. Would be a very decent line-up all things considered.

However it would not surprise me when Malcolm loses both Seb and Tanak (highly likely), he just decides to run all his team on Dmacks. 'Dmack Msport' is a possibility for next year I think if no backers are found.

[eib1]

if Ford will not come back (very likely) and both Ogier and Tänak are leaving (very likely) and M-Sport takes both titles this year (very likely), then i think Malcolm retires at the end of this year (best time ever for retireing)

So there will be a "Dmack Slowsonsport WRT" with paying drivers for many years...

[rhm]

if Ford will not come back (very likely) and both Ogier and Tänak are leaving (very likely) and M-Sport takes both titles this year (very likely), then i think Malcolm retires at the end of this year (best time ever for retireing)

So there will be a "Dmack Slowsonsport WRT" with paying drivers for many years...

Absolutely no chance MSport/Malcolm retires - bet my life on that



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[seb_sh]

So with the latest developments and according to some rumors we could see:

Citroen: Ogier, Meeke, Breen/Lefebvre/Al Qassimi/Loeb (maybe 4 cars on some events, otherwise rotate as convenient)
MSport: Evans, Ostberg, Suninen/Camilli (DMACK)
Hyundai: Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo/Paddon (possibly 4 cars, drivers nominated as convenient)
Toyota: Tanak, Latvala, Lappi (+ Hanninen if bosses in Japan approve money to run 4 cars)

This would be pretty balanced between Hyundai, Toyota and Citroen. Potentially the big player is Ford but the more time passes the less likely that becomes. In any case Hyundai has nicely strengthened it's lineup and will be in the fight for both titles whatever happens next year.

[JUF]

Absolutely no chance MSport/Malcolm retires - bet my life on that Absolutely agree. As long the WRC exists M-Sport will exist as well. And if Malcolm dies someday (I hope that he will get very, very old...) there is still Matthew :D.

[Tarmop]

But that`s what eib1 implied...Malcolm will "retire" as he will not travel and lead the team on every event (although happened before, due to personal reasons a securing Ogiers contract) and other M. Wilson will take over.:D
He said it himself that it would be nice before he retires/pulls back from the carousel to get the WDC title.

[EstWRC]

i dont know how reliable this guy is but this guy on twitter is spraying a lot of info today.

https://twitter.com/ericdobro/with_replies


Eric Dobro Photos‏ @ericdobro 5h5 hours ago
More
Replying to @HartusvuoriWRC @voiceofrally and 2 others
Seb Ogier looks for a contract for 3 seasons to Citroën

Eric Dobro Photos‏ @ericdobro 5h5 hours ago
More
Replying to @HartusvuoriWRC @voiceofrally and 2 others
Discussion complicated for Ogier to Citroën, because he asks for many guarantees and for a salary deserving of his status.


Eric Dobro Photos‏ @ericdobro 2h2 hours ago
More
Replying to @ChristianWRC1
@ChristianWRC1 Ogier was Tuesday, September 3 Citroën racing to Satory ��

Eric Dobro Photos‏ @ericdobro 2h2 hours ago
More
Replying to @ChristianWRC1
@ChristianWRC1 Wilson belt free its pilots negotiate another contract, because it has no warranty with Ford for 2018

[Andre Oliveira]

Eric is a "peculiar" person. French mates can explain better ;)

[Tarmop]

His last tweet sounds like a direct opposite to Wilson`s words in that Spanish interview. Although he doesn`t have a guarantee and can`t actually forbid his emlpoys thinking about their future on their free time.

[giu canbera]

What about Kajetan Kajetanowicz? C'moon

[racerx1979]

He might know something... The salary comment rings a bell since it is what I heard when I was fortunate enough to be around a few TGR guys. Seb wanted boat loads of money and offered to develop the Toyota. I don't see why he would not do the same with Citroen when the car clearly needs work. I could be wrong but he wanted 8 mil for signing with Toyota.

[seb_sh]

We're getting close to the last announcements (presumably) so I'm going to put my final prediction here. Mikkelsen already announced he's going to be at Hyundai so the current unconfirmed drivers I put in bold:

Citroen: Ogier, Meeke, Breen/Lefebvre/Al Qassimi/Loeb (probably 4 cars on some events, otherwise rotate as convenient)
MSport: Tanak, Evans, Suninen (DMACK)
Hyundai: Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo/Paddon (possibly 4 cars on most events, drivers nominated as convenient)
Toyota: Latvala, Lappi, Hanninen
OneBet: Ostberg

Based on latest rumors I suppose Ford isn't going come with a full works team so Ogier to Citroen. Tanak decides it's better to stick with the car he developed and Ogier helped improve. MSport will build the team around Tanak with support from Evans and Suninen. Ostberg will have another season like this one and probably announce his retirement before the end of it. Hanninen will get rewarded for latest performances and loyalty.

[PLuto]

I think there will be different third driver at Toyota...

[Andre Oliveira]

I think that M-Sport will be different too

[wrc2017]

i think you are all in for a surprise

[dupanton]

I think you are all just guessing :p

[seb_sh]

Yeah I'm definitely guessing, maybe should have made it more clear it's just for fun.

[AnttiL]

I think you are all just guessing :p

some people here seem to know.

I'm personally still believing in Tänak going to Toyota, despite the latest Brit journo article. However, I'm 50/50 between Ogier going to Citroen or staying at M-Sport by some surprising solution for funding. In any case, I hope that Suninen gets a WRC seat at M-Sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

some people here seem to know.



If they do why dont they spill... who are they 'protecting' ?

Will believe them when they provide some evidence.

[Tarmop]

Well, those who really know ( i don`t mean those, who just say they know, but aren`t going to tell), are working for the teams and would probably be punished.

[Andre Oliveira]

Thats why someone know and other no. Secrets are to be secret.

[dimviii]

"Ever since we were in the IRC together in 2010 and 2011, Thierry and I have been fighting against each other and usually always at pretty much the same speed," said Mikkelsen.
"We really are good friends, we live close and we get on well together.
"I think this can help to build the team and make it even stronger next season."
Mikkelsen came close to a deal to join Hyundai earlier in the year after an initial test in its i20.
"We have been talking a lot with both teams [Citroen and Hyundai] this year," he added.
"Around Portugal time I came close to signing with Hyundai, when they wanted to run four cars, but then it was difficult for them to get the budget sorted and it went away again.
"We talked again later in the year and then after Germany things moved very quickly.
"Citroen wanted me for next year, but it wasn't possible for them to make things happen so soon as Hyundai."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/132187/mikkelsen-expects-title-bid-with-hyundai

[AnttiL]

It also says


Mikkelsen and Thierry Neuville will be Hyundai's full-season drivers next year, with Dani Sordo and Hayden Paddon sharing a third car.

[mknight]

Well it must have been a no-brainer.

Contract with Hyundai, possibly the fastest or one of the two fastest cars
or
Wait if Citroen does not get Ogier for a chance to help them fixed their car.

[Gregor-y]

However, I'm 50/50 between Ogier going to Citroen or staying at M-Sport by some surprising solution for funding.

If there's any truth to Citroen having Loeb around - even if only for a few events - would Ogier go there, too? I think Citroen will need at least one of them to create some confidence for fans and sponsors.

[er88]

If there's any truth to Citroen having Loeb around - even if only for a few events - would Ogier go there, too?


Yep.

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[tomhlord]

From Yves Matton: "“I think we are more than two [interested parties] and the more you are, the more complicated things can be." - M-Sport, Citroen and.....?

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-is-citroens-only-target-for-2018-wrc/

Also, nothing decided before Spain as originally envisioned.

[AnttiL]

So if Ogier stays at M-Sport it means less new seats for newcomers like Suninen and Tidemand, because then Citroen will just use the current lineup.

[AnttiL]

Why is that a bad thing? Because none of them are from Nordic countries?

Did I say it is a bad thing? We could add Eric Camilli to the list as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's looking more and more like Ogier to Citroen. I think they will come to some arrangement as they really need him to give them any chance of fighting for future Championships.

[Tarmop]

Well, something is quite definitely going on. The gossip about a "surprising" news about Detroit meeting etc.


But, Ford are quitting. Damn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnVWinRg1es

"Ford will not be continuing their rallycross program for the 2018 race season. And because of that, my time with the team is over at the end of this year." Andreas Bakkerud

"To continue in WRX would have required the development of a new race car."
http://performance.ford.com/series/rally/news/articles/world-rx/2017/10/ford-ends-world-rx-program.html

Or they really are going to stop F.P. activities in EU.

[dimviii]

What is Sebastien Ogier doing in 2018 and beyond? This question has occupied the rally world championship for weeks. The Frenchman emphasized several times that he would like to stay with M-Sport, but demanded vehement factory support by Ford. Because this is still not in sight, Ogier also negotiates with other teams, especially with Citroën they were rolled publicly in the last days the red carpet.
In France they even renounced Andreas Mikkelsen and put everything on the Ogier card, but this could turn out to be a mistake. Behind the scenes it is rumored that there have been problems between Citroën main sponsor Abu Dhabi and Ogier partner Red Bull. Sheikh Khalid Al-Qassimi has funded the team since 2013, after the Austrian shower giant had adopted the direction of Volkswagen.

Not only for this reason, Red Bull could play an important role in a change from Ogier to Hyundai. The team's team-mate Michel Nandan had emphasized that there was no place for Ogier in his team, as all three drivers (Thierry Neuville, Hayden Paddon and Dani Sordo) had a contract for all the World Cup runs in 2018. How fast but one is set before the door, may experience Hayden Paddon this weekend, which had to make place for the surprising new entry Andreas Mikkelsen.
In Wales you will compete with four cars and plans with this solution also in the coming year, if the Ogier coup succeeds in 2018, a current driver must go ahead. The reinforcement of the driver's wagon would be a costly affair, but it seems feasible with the new support from Red Bull.
"At this time of the season everyone is talking to everyone and it is clear that we are also negotiating with the world champions," Hyundai team manager Alain Penasse explained on demand. However, the Belgian does not see a short-term Ogier change. "For 2018, our drivers are firmly on the ground. However, will be open for the future future. "


https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/10/04/sebastien-ogier-und-die-hyundai-ueberraschung/

[AnttiL]

Absolute Rally talked earlier about a possible clash between Red Bull and Abu Dhabi sponsorships if Ogier was going to Citroen. Matton also said there's more than two teams interested in Ogier so maybe Hyundai is the third one? But like stated above, they have enough drivers for 2018.

[pantealex]

Absolute Rally talked earlier about a possible clash between Red Bull and Abu Dhabi sponsorships if Ogier was going to Citroen. Matton also said there's more than two teams interested in Ogier so maybe Hyundai is the third one? But like stated above, they have enough drivers for 2018.

Toyota is 3rd one but almost 100% sure that Ogier is not going there.

[AnttiL]

http://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-avasi-toyotan-kuskitilannetta-yksi-palanen-puuttuu/

Tommi Mäkinen says once again that Latvala and Lappi are confirmed, but Toyota's third driver is not announced until after Spain, but before Wales. And also says they tell about Hänninen's future after Wales "once everything is in line", I think he refers to the possible four car rule?

[Allez Andruet]

http://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-avasi-toyotan-kuskitilannetta-yksi-palanen-puuttuu/

Tommi Mäkinen says once again that Latvala and Lappi are confirmed, but Toyota's third driver is not announced until after Spain, but before Wales. And also says they tell about Hänninen's future after Wales "once everything is in line", I think he refers to the possible four car rule?

Tommi doesn't make it any easier for himself by giving these kind of statements. Every now and then he sort of confirms Latvala and/or Lappi in the inverviews, but it probably would've been better had he declined to comment the subject at all.

Btw, in this linked interview, he first says that something will be officially announced between Spain and Wales, but later says announcements are due after Spain and Wales. JUST TELL US ALREADY!

[AnttiL]

Btw, in this linked interview, he first says that something will be officially announced between Spain and Wales, but later says announcements are due after Spain and Wales. JUST TELL US ALREADY!

I interpreted it the way that they announce Tänak's contract before Wales, and then announce if Hänninen drives a fourth car after Wales, once FIA has decided if the teams will run four cars next year.

[jparker]

Well, no more "I want Tanak" talk by Tommi. Also, this "I like sport more than money" talk by Tanak, confirm he's not first in Tommi's list anymore.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hopefully Tanak will see a better chance of a 2018 title with the M-Sport Fiesta he knows well. Then he will be hot property forever in the future and make more money then...

[Allez Andruet]

I interpreted it the way that they announce Tänak's contract before Wales, and then announce if Hänninen drives a fourth car after Wales, once FIA has decided if the teams will run four cars next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're interpretation is correct one.

[pantealex]

I wouldn't be surprised if you're interpretation is correct one.

+1

[er88]

Well, no more "I want Tanak" talk by Tommi. Also, this "I like sport more than money" talk by Tanak, confirm he's not first in Tommi's list anymore.Think you're wrong

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[AnttiL]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2017/ogier-2018-deal-/page/4893--12-12-.html

Ogier still has no deal and has put the negotiations on hold to concentrate on the rally.

[AnttiL]

http://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-arvoituksellisena-uutisia-saadaan-varmasti-pian/

Suninen says "I don't have anything to say about next year yet but I'm sure there will be news on that soon"

[jparker]

Think you're wrong

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In such discussion where all possible driver rotations were presented, why not give my own :), even wrong one.
Anyway, sport wins against money? Give me a break.

[jparker]

Hopefully Tanak will see a better chance of a 2018 title with the M-Sport Fiesta he knows well. Then he will be hot property forever in the future and make more money then...
Ok, got you, but there are tooooo many "hot properties" around. Also, in sport like this you get what you can ASAP, otherwise you may miss the whole thing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ok, got you, but there are tooooo many "hot properties" around. Also, in sport like this you get what you can ASAP, otherwise you may miss the whole thing.

That was what some thought with Mikkelsen missing out in 2017... but if your good enough a WRC seat will come, and it has.

[AnttiL]

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rallyracc-press-conference


Q:
The rumour mill is in full flow at the moment. ‘Will Ott stay at M-Sport?’, ‘Will he move to Toyota?’ What can you tell us?
OT:
What can I say? You know how these things work. The decision will come quite soon. We need to wait a few more weeks then we will see what happens. I think we are quite close.

Q:
What will be the deciding factor?
OT:
I want the best chance and I want the best team. I want to be in the best position for the future, so we look and see where’s the best chance to fight for the championship.

Q:
Is it just Toyota or M-Sport?
OT:
What can I say?

Q:
You can say yes or no…
OT:
Yeah, they are the main teams…

[KKS]

Ogier to Hyundai? alongside with Mikkelsen and Neuville
If it's true - it's another bad decisions by Matton. And Citroen with weakest line-up

[AnttiL]

Ogier to Hyundai? alongside with Mikkelsen and Neuville
If it's true - it's another bad decisions by Matton. And Citroen with weakest line-up

would be a proper super team, and a blow for Paddon and Sordo.

[er88]

Would be a blow for the sport if that happens, and would start another period of VW-esque domination. If Seb goes to Citroen and Tanak stays at Msport, we'd have a very even spread of quality drivers across all the teams. So that's what I'm hoping for, and hopefully one of Tanak or Seb staying at Msport. Would be cruel if both left and Ford stood back and did nothing about it....

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[Allez Andruet]

Would be a blow for the sport if that happens, and would start another period of VW-esque domination.
Nah, not necessarily. Sure it'd be a strong team, strongest one on paper, but things have changed since VW days.

[er88]

Julian Porter saying Suninen will be one of Msports 3 drivers next year, going by rumours in the service park

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[mknight]

Would be a blow for the sport if that happens, and would start another period of VW-esque domination. If Seb goes to Citroen and Tanak stays at Msport, we'd have a very even spread of quality drivers across all the teams. So that's what I'm hoping for, and hopefully one of Tanak or Seb staying at Msport. Would be cruel if both left and Ford stood back and did nothing about it....

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Same, Ogier to Citroen and Tanak at Msport will make for seemingly balanced teams. Any of the other combinations will leave 1 team too weak which is not good.

[AndyRAC]

Julian Porter saying Suninen will be one of M-Sport's 3 drivers next year, going by rumours in the service park

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Would that be in the DMack car? With Tanak & Evans in the 'factory' Michelin shod cars?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier to Hyundai? alongside with Mikkelsen and Neuville
If it's true - it's another bad decisions by Matton. And Citroen with weakest line-up

Where's this info from ?

[macebig]

Where's this info from ?

A rumor is flying that Abu Dhabi won't agree for Citroen to have Red Bull branding which a prerequisite to get Ogier. So, the rumor is Hyundai will happily jump at the opportunity to get full Red Bull backing + Ogier.

[AndyRAC]

That is believable - Neuville, Sordo & Mikkelsen are Red Bull athletes; so getting Ogier and full Red Bull branding is not a bad suggestion.

But for Citroen to let Ogier slip through their fingers again would raise questions?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Would be a blow for the sport if that happens, and would start another period of VW-esque domination. If Seb goes to Citroen and Tanak stays at Msport, we'd have a very even spread of quality drivers across all the teams. So that's what I'm hoping for, and hopefully one of Tanak or Seb staying at Msport. Would be cruel if both left and Ford stood back and did nothing about it....


Couldn't agree more.

[Norm75]

A rumor is flying that Abu Dhabi won't agree for Citroen to have Red Bull branding which a prerequisite to get Ogier. So, the rumor is Hyundai will happily jump at the opportunity to get full Red Bull backing + Ogier.
That would seem like a crazy stumbling block, it's Red Bull not Red Boar!

[seb_sh]

MSport with Tanak, Evans and Suninen would look decent for next year with Tanak a real title contender. I expect this to be announced soon.

If Citroen loses Ogier to Hyundai then Matton should just give up and go live in his parent's basement. From outside it looks more and more like a big part of the blame for this season is on him. If this does happen it will be interesting to see what happens with Sordo and Paddon. With Ogier, Neuville and Mikkelsen they would have 3 of the top 6 drivers in the WRC atm so I don't see any reason to keep either Sordo or Paddon, unfortunately. However I think in the end Citroen will work it out and Ogier will be there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak to Toyota still a strong rumour acc to Julian Porter... :(

[Eli]

Tanak to Toyota still a strong rumour acc to Julian Porter... :(I really hope either Tanak or Ogier will stay there, preferably Tanak.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[tomhlord]

Looks to me like Hanninen was crying at the end of the power stage.

[racerx1979]

Emotional moment for the Finn. He knows he was on the chopping block and he stepped up. Hope he does well in the next few rallies. He’s been reliable lately.

[AnttiL]

Looks to me like Hanninen was crying at the end of the power stage.

or blinking his eyes because he had to lie, or go around the question of assuring the team bosses with his performance.

[Tarmop]

So Ogier says that there is a possibility of a Ford return and with that him staying, earlier this week they stopped their WRX activities and important uncles from Ford were present in RAC.

[ESTR]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Ogier in championship at all. For sure not in Hyundai team. Sorry but I hate him because of his dominance, like Loeb. He could go in another sport and try his luck anywhere else and we will see how good he is...

And still Wilson says if Ford doesn't come back to support M-Sport or get major sponsor he will go.. What about Red Bull?? Why would be Hyundai grabbing him because of Red Bull.

And why works teams give drivers 2 or 3 year contracts if they change drivers every year?? If they are not sure of them why don't they give them one year deal and that's it. Now it will suffer Paddon, Sordo, Breen, Lefebvre, maybe Meeke, Hanninen...

[seb_sh]

So Ogier says that there is a possibility of a Ford return and with that him staying, earlier this week they stopped their WRX activities and important uncles from Ford were present in RAC.
If that happens it turns everything around. Tanak to Toyota after all?

[RS]

When do we get a decision on four car teams next year?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Come on Ford, do the right thing and reward M-Sport for all they have done for publicising the new Fiesta !!

[er88]

Matton will have a lot to answer for if Seb stays at Msport/Ford. Thats on top of the poor year they've had off the back of mistakes/risks they took in development and engineering...

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[AnttiL]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Ogier in championship at all. For sure not in Hyundai team. Sorry but I hate him because of his dominance, like Loeb. He could go in another sport and try his luck anywhere else and we will see how good he is...

And still Wilson says if Ford doesn't come back to support M-Sport or get major sponsor he will go.. What about Red Bull?? Why would be Hyundai grabbing him because of Red Bull.

And why works teams give drivers 2 or 3 year contracts if they change drivers every year?? If they are not sure of them why don't they give them one year deal and that's it. Now it will suffer Paddon, Sordo, Breen, Lefebvre, maybe Meeke, Hanninen...

Hänninen had only one year contract.

The difference between M-Sport and Hyundai is that one has a factory backing the development financially and one doesn't. It's not just about Ogier's salary. Ogier wants strong car development and Wilson couldn't do another year like this.

[RS]

Ford: Evans, Sunninen, Tidemand (DMack), Ostberg
Hyundai: Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Paddon
Toyota: Tanak, Latvala, Lappi, Hanninen
Citroen: Ogier, Meeke, Breen and Loeb/al Qassimi/Lefebvre share 4th car.

... would sound good to me.

[ESTR]

Hänninen had only one year contract.

The difference between M-Sport and Hyundai is that one has a factory backing the development financially and one doesn't. It's not just about Ogier's salary. Ogier wants strong car development and Wilson couldn't do another year like this.

Still Hanninen deserve a seat. At least for another year. Like Breen. No Toyota and Citroen will instead throw them away...

It will be easier if they can run four cars or maybe like previous years two works' teams for each 2 drivers.

[Allez Andruet]

Tanak to Toyota after all?
That would still be my bet (for what it's worth...). That David Evans story about "Tänak to stay at M-Sport" was pure BS but unfortunately it was spread wide.

The way Hänninen sounded during and after the rally, somehow seem to tell that he won't be continuing with the team. Which is a shame, if true - he's finally been able to find his old "IRC form" in the past few rallies after so many tepid years.

[racerx1979]

I agree with Allez. Hanninens comment saying it’s been a pleasure competing against the top and being able to keep up with them. Also saying it’s been one of the best finishes of his life. I think he’s implying the end of his stint with Toyota. Let’s hope they keep him. Seems like a ton of unknowns still. Once again things waiting for Ogier to make a move. Maybe Tanak stays if Ogier goes to Citroen which means Hanninen stays.. hope to hear finalized deals after Rally GB.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The difference between M-Sport and Hyundai is that one has a factory backing the development financially and one doesn't. It's not just about Ogier's salary. Ogier wants strong car development and Wilson couldn't do another year like this.

Car-wise, why not ? The new Fiesta has been fast, strong and reliable AND this after the shortest production and testing in 2016.

Hyundai had more money then and now and still havent beaten the Ford.

[racerx1979]

Hyundai wants to win no matter what the cost. That’s obvious after signing Mikkelsen and having 4 cars runnning. Budget does not seem a concern for them.

I think next year teams will be up another notch hence why Ford needs a bigger budget.

[ESTR]

They could go with 2 teams for each like previous years. And make even more interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyundai Motorsport:
-Neuville
-Mikkelsen
-Sordo/Paddon

Hyundai Motorsport N:
-Sordo/Paddon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toyota GAZOO Racing:
-Latvala
-Hanninen
-Lappi/Tidemand

TM Racing:
-Lappi/Tidemand
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M-Sport WRT:
-Ogier
-Tanak
-Evans/Suninen

DMACK WRT:
-Evans/Suninen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT:
-Kris Meeke
-Craig Breen
-Lefebvre/Loeb/Qassimi

PH-Sport:
-Lefebvre/Loeb/Qassimi
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OneBet Adapta WRT:
-Ostberg
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They could easily run 4 cars just for each event nominate in which team would 3rd driver sit. It will be more interesting for manufacturer championship and driver also because 4 seats more in game

[Tarmop]

1. New WRC cars can be only entered by a manufacturer. Yes, Manu. team no. 2 would be a possibility, but who would pay for it?
2. Point 1. There would probably be more cars, if there were people rich enough to pay for them. Some outings in Fiesta 2017 don`t count.

[Rally Power]

Hard to believe in the Hyundai rumour: there’s not enough room for Ogier and Neuville egos under the same roof and Mikkelsen chances to fight for the title would vanish if Ogier gets in.

Besides, Citroen will be useless without Ogier, so it makes no sense to keep Abu Dhabi partnership if they’re against the Ogier/RB deal. If a private team like MSport is able to make an effort in order to have Ogier, for sure a big manu like PSA can do the same, or better.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLompXfWsAAloJK.jpg

[ESTR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLompXfWsAAloJK.jpg

Ogier?

[Tarmop]

Yes
Ummm.... I wouldn`t mind...:D

But to be serious, pretty much says what he thinks about c3 as a whole package...not good enough to be competitive on every event.

[racerx1979]

I take that as “I’m stayint with Ford or go to Hyundai”

[wrc2017]

I feel Ogier thinks he is lucky to win championship this year, and relucant to recommit. Also Malcolm said he cant afford to pay him the same for 2018 as 2017. Hyundai will pay whatever he wants.. because they are now desparate to win, and will not win WDC with him in another team. While he might want to join Citroen, maybe they cannot afford his demands, plus the clash with Abu Dhabi and Redbull. Why Tommi Makinen doesnt brake the bank for him, i dont know. The Toyota is a quick car on every surface.. and Ogier knows he can break Latvala.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All this previously by Ogier, 'I want to get my future sorted out early' ... it was just wishful thinking by him.

Contracts with several teams and undecided manufacturer's in the mix are complex. They inevitably take time and patience.

Something everyone on here needs to learn.

[AL14]

I never understand why Hyundai took Mikkelsen and let Ogier go to the competition. If Neuville would have been a problem then let him go, if you want to win the title you need Ogier not an arrogant boy who offend his teammates, believes himself as the best drivers around and win nothing at the end.

[AL14]

All this previously by Ogier, 'I want to get my future sorted out early' ... it was just wishful thinking by him.

Contracts with several teams and undecided manufacturer's in the mix are complex. They inevitably take time and patience.

Something everyone on here needs to learn.

It could be that Ogier is afraid of Citroen developing on gravel and he wants to be reassured about Citroen's commitment on the development of the car in terms of resources and investments. I'm afraid Citroen doesn't want to invest too much on WRC and have quite limited budget.

Another reason could be the fact that he wants to develop the car the way he wants and maybe that requires more than a talk before closing the deal, since that would be disruptive for the team as is right now.

[AnttiL]

Like Ogier said, it's complicated and slow negotiating with multiple teams and with multiple factors in the game (Ford's decisions?, Red Bull / Abu Dhabi clashes?, FIA four car rules?).

[pantealex]

Kalle Rovanperä has 3 options for 2018 and beyond:

M-Sport, Malcolm wants 3-years deal, Jouhki maybe doesn´t want to commit Kalle that long

Skoda, fastest R5 but what after that, WRC from where?

Toyota, gazoo junior program can offer him R5 car (Fabia or Fiesta) and he can test WRC, easiest team to work with and only 2km from home.

Any of those 3 would not surprise me as Kalle´s 2018 team.

[Mintexmemory]

Without any particular team bias I'd have thought Ogier will have just as good a chance of a 6th WDC by staying with M-Sport than going to Hyundai. Mikkelsen, Neuville, Paddon and Whoever sounds like a recipe for a 'who gets the sandpit in a kindergarten' fight. Meeke will be Meeke in the C3 and Toyota have what appears to be the team that has the philosophy from a Brit Comedy show, League of Gentlemen - 'This is a local shop for local people!'
The conditions that have occurred this year will remain, sometimes a driver will shine and others they will be disappointing. The real challenger would seem to be Tanak, so far better for Ogier to stay as his Team Leader and maintain the ultra consistency approach.

[mknight]

I never understand why Hyundai took Mikkelsen and let Ogier go to the competition. If Neuville would have been a problem then let him go, if you want to win the title you need Ogier not an arrogant boy who offend his teammates, believes himself as the best drivers around and win nothing at the end.

When was getting Ogier instead of Mikkelsen an option?
After Germany Mikkelsen was available and wanted to drive next rallies. Citroen let him go and Hyundai took him. While he certainly wanted a salary I guess it was quite a lot below Ogier-money.

- if Hyundai have the money they are likely still in talks with Ogier (rumors seem to suggest this)
- if they don't have this kind of money they could have passed on Mikkelsen (who might have ended somewhere else, or not) and waited if they can get Ogier "cheap" after Citroen and M-Sport didn't get him

Note that Citroen basically went for the second option, time will tell if that was clever. In any case for Citroen it wasn't Ogier or Mikkelsen, it's Mikkelsen for sure or maybe Ogier.

[mknight]

Without any particular team bias I'd have thought Ogier will have just as good a chance of a 6th WDC by staying with M-Sport than going to Hyundai. Mikkelsen, Neuville, Paddon and Whoever sounds like a recipe for a 'who gets the sandpit in a kindergarten' fight. Meeke will be Meeke in the C3 and Toyota have what appears to be the team that has the philosophy from a Brit Comedy show, League of Gentlemen - 'This is a local shop for local people!'
The conditions that have occurred this year will remain, sometimes a driver will shine and others they will be disappointing. The real challenger would seem to be Tanak, so far better for Ogier to stay as his Team Leader and maintain the ultra consistency approach.

lol @ Toyota

If M-Sport does not have money to keep developing the car Ogier's chances would diminish fast imo. Malcolm said it multiple times how they can't afford this next year without extra money.
But Ogier in Hyundai would be terrible for overall competition.

[racerx1979]

As for 2017 we can all agree that Ogier has the best and most reliable car.

How well would have he done in a Citroen, Toyota or Hyundai this year?

As for Toyota don’t let the barnyard Finnish workshop fool you. The design and engineering gone into their chassis is above others. It’s a Toyota backed program with all of of Toyota’s resources and not a privateer team with limited budget.

M-sport could fall behind if they have a limited budget. Toyota and Hyundai will continue to dump money into their program. They’re in it to win it. Citroen will also have a better car next year, but it seems like they’re are issues with a Red Bull / Ogier combo.

Latvala, Nueville, Tanak and even Meeke are capable of winning next year if the car fits their style. I almost think 2018 will be more interesting than 2017.

[AL14]

When was getting Ogier instead of Mikkelsen an option?
After Germany Mikkelsen was available and wanted to drive next rallies. Citroen let him go and Hyundai took him. While he certainly wanted a salary I guess it was quite a lot below Ogier-money.

- if Hyundai have the money they are likely still in talks with Ogier (rumors seem to suggest this)
- if they don't have this kind of money they could have passed on Mikkelsen (who might have ended somewhere else, or not) and waited if they can get Ogier "cheap" after Citroen and M-Sport didn't get him

Note that Citroen basically went for the second option, time will tell if that was clever. In any case for Citroen it wasn't Ogier or Mikkelsen, it's Mikkelsen for sure or maybe Ogier.

You have a point and that could be how things went but my question is still valid. If Hyundai is there to win the WRC, why they didn't pick the driver who would have assured that?
The situation of other drivers, their lineup opinions, even the organization of budget (which I don't think is lower than other teams), all is secondary in my opinion.

Ogier would have accepted soon, they have a strong car, a strong organization, full backing from the company and they are based in Germany, which is good for him and his family.

[electroliquid]

Kalle Rovanperä has 3 options for 2018 and beyond:

M-Sport, Malcolm wants 3-years deal, Jouhki maybe doesn´t want to commit Kalle that long

So this year's drives in WRC2 with still no deal reached? is it only "test" drives?

[AnttiL]

So this year's drives in WRC2 with still no deal reached? is it only "test" drives?

Right, they have no further commitment. For getting just two rallies at the end of a season, M-Sport was the way to go. But for a longer term deal, there's other options.

[Mintexmemory]

Kalle Rovanpera may be the next best thing but when did actually progressing through and WINNING lower international classes before progressing to WRC end as a career path? In the words of the little green guy - 'Much to learn has he still!'

[AnttiL]

Kalle Rovanpera may be the next best thing but when did actually progressing through and WINNING lower international classes before progressing to WRC end as a career path? In the words of the little green guy - 'Much to learn has he still!'

Well he's not driving a WRC car in 2018 for sure.

[mknight]

You have a point and that could be how things went but my question is still valid. If Hyundai is there to win the WRC, why they didn't pick the driver who would have assured that?
The situation of other drivers, their lineup opinions, even the organization of budget (which I don't think is lower than other teams), all is secondary in my opinion.

Ogier would have accepted soon, they have a strong car, a strong organization, full backing from the company and they are based in Germany, which is good for him and his family.

Ogier wasn't exactly dominant this year, especially not in the mid-season with 5th place on Sardinia, 3rd place gifted in Poland after many retirements and 0 points from Finland.. going into Germany with same points as Neuville. Also comparison with Tanak is quite close.

So hiring Ogier doesn't look like 100% guaranteed title and not hiring him like 100% no title. Looks like Toyota is not exactly going all-in for Ogier either.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe it would do everyone a favour if Ogier retired. It would make all of the Teams' situation a whole lot simpler... ;)