Who exactly is watching IRL?

[jarrambide]

I posted something similar on the CC forum, and I´m also interested in hearing you guys and your opinion on who is watching IRL today.

Someone said on the CC forum on the "What do you like about Champ Car?" thread that Champ Car has no rednecks, this was of course a direct reference to NASCAR.
I will have to disagree with the concept of NASCAR beeing a redneck sport, not because I´m a a genius, or because I have tons of information oon demographics and ratings, but because many writers (not only sports writers), editorialists and commentators have noted that NASCAR is not the redneck sport of the past, that according to ratings it is almost as mainstream as football, and yes, it´s true that in the big metropolis (LA, NY, Chicago, etc) they are not very popular, but they do hace the attention of almost everyone else, but this is a discussion for another thread, perhaps a different forum.
While reading the comment of "no rednecks", I had to ask myself, who is the average open Wheel(IRL and CC) fan then?, I´m not talking about the average fan in the whole world, lets concentrate in the US where the majority of fans of IRL are concentrated.
It´s true that in Europe and South America the average racing fan (F1, Rally, MotoGP, etc, etc) is from the upper middle class or higher, they are normally well educated and have a great cultural knowledge (at least for my standard, I live in a country with an average education of 7th grade and collega graduates are consider very fortunate citizens), but in the US there is this conception that there are 2 classes of racing fans, Open Wheel fans and Stock Car fans.
Stock Car fans are consider uneducated, working class, whiter than white rednecks form the southwest, while Open Wheel fans are highly educated, above average wealth, college degree from big cities fans.
Thing is, I don´t remember CART (presplit era) beeing that big in NY, Chicago, LA areas in their best years, and we had a lot of fans there, and supposedly many of the fans we had stop watching OWR because of the split and started watching NASCAR, if they are rednecks now they were rednecks then.
Of course I could be wrong, that´s why I´m posting this topic, I´m interested in your points of view, both forums are full of members with a lot of knowledge.
So, what is your take on this guys?

[Okeefe]

I purchased my daughter a Kids' 2007 Almanac for around $20.00 and it was filled with info on many current subjects. On the page about autoracing it provided info on the 2005 winners of F1, Indy, and Nascar; and it mentioned Danica Patrick's leading Indy; as well as Erin Crocker crashing alot early on but having the courage and seriousness to step down to do more learning and gain more experience in due course and in lower rank first before being out of her league in terms of ability and experience in a higher league only for show.

It also pretty much outlined F1 as being the highest series and for the best of the best or the elite of motor racing.

So, the tweens and teens who receive that book in their stocking may be watching at some point in the future.

[DocF225]

NASCAR became what it is today beacuse of the France family getting the right marketing and TV coverage. 20 years ago, there were maybe 3 NASCAR races covered on TV. (Daytona, Talledega and maybe one other).

In the south NASCAR IS racing. The Drivers are worshipped like gods there. People name their kids after drivers, paint their mobile home and cars to look like NASCAR cars, and live for Sunday. Ask them to about an open wheel car and unless is a Sprint or Modified they're lost. Again, it comes down to lowest common denominator, since NASCAR is covered by the major networks, gets the lions share of the advertising and has the "mainstream" markets sewn up it appears to be the racing form in the country.

Open wheel has been around longer, has some of the oldest races and draws some of the largest crowds but they shot themselves in the foot with the split.

[Chaparral66]

Even NASCAR will peak, if they already haven't done so, and then people will be looking for an alternantive. It always happens, sooner or later.

[thompson_fan]

We get both NASCAR and IRL coverage here in Australia. I try to catch as many of the races from both series as i can.

Although most times i don't know of the IRL being on TV until about halfway through the race so i have to watch it on replay.

NASCAR on the other hand gets a fair bit of TV advertising on the sports channels that show it so i can catch the live broadcast as i know when it's on.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the question of who is watching the IRL? IRL fans are the small group of racing fans who grew up watching Indy, and they are more into oval racing. They are more likely to be "middle America" and they are more likely to be fans of the old USAC. The younger fans of the IRL love the side by side oval races, and I think many of the fans, new and old of the IRL don't appreciate road racing in the same way the Champ Car crowd does. The sad part is, fans of both series had both in the old series. There was ovals, there was street and road courses. I think it is an acquired taste, and most of the IRL crowd really don't appreciate road and street racing. They may watch it on occasion, but they don't want too much of it. I can get that, I don't identify with it, but I get it. Different strokes for different folks as they say...


NASCAR fans I think came from the same group of Middle America, and therin lies the hole in the ratings for the IRL now. They want 43 taxicabs on ovals every weekend vs 20 missiles on ovals 10 races a year.

[Okeefe]

Nascar seems to be making it's way into Canada, no doubt, and it's gaining fans and giving some good racers a place to be along the way, there's no doubt and no denying it.
I've heard there's a new oval going into Cayuga, Ont. and one near Niagara Falls, Ont.
I'm thinking that the IRL is poised in a pretty good business position to be that "alternative" that people look for after/when/if Nascar "peaks" and people seek an alternative - kinda like the openwheeled alternative.
Isn't there already something in place that when people buy a Nascar ticket they get an IRL ticket to some tracks?
I think that as Nascar grows in popularity here in Canada - and it is -that IRL will also grow in popularity to a smaller degree.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Nascar seems to be making it's way into Canada, no doubt, and it's gaining fans and giving some good racers a place to be along the way, there's no doubt and no denying it.
I've heard there's a new oval going into Cayuga, Ont. and one near Niagara Falls, Ont.
I'm thinking that the IRL is poised in a pretty good business position to be that "alternative" that people look for after/when/if Nascar "peaks" and people seek an alternative - kinda like the openwheeled alternative.
Isn't there already something in place that when people buy a Nascar ticket they get an IRL ticket to some tracks?
I think that as Nascar grows in popularity here in Canada - and it is -that IRL will also grow in popularity to a smaller degree.

The IRL will do nothing in Canada more than it ever has unless they get a Canadian driver who does well in it OR they put a race in Canada. Since we have no big ovals of note, it is unlikely unless the IRL wants to run a road course. That hasn't been really talked about, so I doubt the IRL's interest in Canada will be no more than it ever has.

AS for NASCAR in Canada, well, they will have their version of CASCAR, likely very similar in layout and execution for the first few years. There is an existing oval in Cayuga O'Keefe, and it is a 5/8ths of a mile that with a lot of money put into it, could put on a short track NASCAR event. The track in Niagara is as dead as the yogic flying fantasypark that magician Doug Henning was pushing back in the early 90's. It is VERY dead. Lots of noise about looking into it, but near as I can figure, no one ever bought the land, much less looked into rezoning and planning. It was all theoretical and the only thing that kept it alive was the fact Senator Trevor Eyton was one of the names attached and he is well connected on Bay St.

If someone has about 250 million laying around, they could build at good sized oval in Ontario somewhere, and NASCAR and the IRL would arrive in a heart beat...

The IRL never caught interest in Canada for one BIG reason. All of the Canadian stars stayed with Champ Car for the first few years, and Champ Car runs 3 popular events up here. We Canadians tend to be loyal to our stars, and although Goodyear and Carpentier are popular, nothing really happened in their careers when they went to the IRL.

[Okeefe]

Last October is when I heard that I think it was three business men had plans on putting an Oval up around Niagara Falls (my notes are at home but I'll bring them tomorrow and post what I found). I don't know if there are any updates from there or not.
As for Cayuga, yes indeedy, I heard as late as 2 weeks ago about good things going on there in the future.
Personally, I think the IRL is the best poised to be the openwheeled alternative to Nascar/Cascar when/if/after Nascar "peeks" and Canadian people are looking for an alternative, whether they race in Canada or not. Many Canadians go to Nascar races in the States to watch oval racing. Chances are if they are already watching oval racing, they'll take a look at an openwheeled series that races on ovals too eventually, I think.
I have not encountered many who are as aware of IRL as they are of Nascar, but I've encountered even less who are even aware of Champ Car at all, irregardless of how many Canadian races there are or Canadians in the series, and the only ones mentioned in the autoracing section of a kids' 2007 almanac purchased in Canada was Nascar and IRL, I noticed blatently, for what it's worth. To each our own opinion, I guess.

[Hayden Fan]

Someone actually watches IRL events(I don't say racing, because they don't). That just blew me away. How can anyone watch the crapwagons of IRL and NASCRAP go around in circles. So boring. Just what the world needs, another bored teenager. Oval racing in the modern times, I think will kill auto racing. not the Al Gore, save the planet from pollution gunk.

[Okeefe]

"Oval racing in the modern times, I think will kill auto racing" (sorry I don't know how to use the "quote" button on this new board...)

This is interesting. How so?

[GunsofNavarone]

NASCAR is generally a southern form of motorsport. Being from the south, I can promise there are some motorsport fans down here that aren't rednecks. On the same hand, I am not a NASCAR fan and would rather sit down and watch an INDY race on any given day...

[V12]

Well I don't have satellite TV at home, so the only US motorsport I get to watch is a few weeks later at some ridiculous time in the morning on Channel 5 :(

[ChampUSfan]

I watched IndyCar from 2002 to 2005. But now I don't have any channel on which I can see IRL. It's not so popular in Europe. And it's really different and difficult for me to see a race today, because when you lose your favourite driver (my favourite driver is Paul Dana), you don't feel the same like before. But I have to see Indy 500 in my life.

[indycool]

JMO, but I think a lot of it has to do with oval fans vs. road course fans, as Mark in O. alluded to. The oval fans watch the IRL, the road-course fans watch CC.
Many don't remember it, but the issue of more street/road courses and fewer ovals WAS significant with CART back in the '80s. Pre-Internet forums, it was a big issue, especially when CART cut the second races from Phoenix and Michigan in 1989 to dramatically cut out the number of oval races on the schedule.
Oval fans think road racing people are elitists. Road racing people think oval fans are the unwashed. This was the case long before current times and NASCAR didn't just become an overnight success.
As an aside from my point, I will always remember the absolutely dumb Pook public comment: "Our fans don't drink Budweiser, smoke Winstons and drive pickup trucks" (thus alienating and insulting all who do).

[Lee Roy]

Oval fans think road racing people are elitists. Road racing people think oval fans are the unwashed. This was the case long before current times and NASCAR didn't just become an overnight success.
As an aside from my point, I will always remember the absolutely dumb Pook public comment: "Our fans don't drink Budweiser, smoke Winstons and drive pickup trucks" (thus alienating and insulting all who do).

I wouldn't worry about what Pook said. Most NASCAR fans never heard what he said, knew who he was, or even know or care about the racing series he was involved with.

[indycool]

True, Lee Roy. But Pook's shot at NASCAR in the way he did it, as others before me have said, didn't do much good for open-wheel sponsorship and fandom in those particular areas of interest -- beer, smokes and pickup trucks.

[Lee Roy]

True, Lee Roy. But Pook's shot at NASCAR in the way he did it, as others before me have said, didn't do much good for open-wheel sponsorship and fandom in those particular areas of interest -- beer, smokes and pickup trucks.

On these types of open-wheel forums there was much discussion and gnashing of teeth over Mr. Pook's offending statement and it's potential impact. Out in the real world where people are happy and enjoying their racing series of choice every week, it wasn't even noticed.

[Alexamateo]

True, Lee Roy. But Pook's shot at NASCAR in the way he did it, as others before me have said, didn't do much good for open-wheel sponsorship and fandom in those particular areas of interest -- beer, smokes and pickup trucks.

And the ultimate irony of all this is that the beer guzzlin', tobacco dippin' & smokin', pickup truck drivin' good ol boys in their low tech taxicab tintops are the ones with the private jets and luxury motor coaches that pay their champion $10,000,000. Meanwhile, the cultural elites with their high tech cars pay their cultured French Champion $500,000 while flying him coach :p :

[Opinion8d]

if any series has good racing it will have viewers
cars buzzing around a track with no passing isnt racing

this is where nascar has gained the advantage over the other series
there is much passing and the winner could be any one of 20-25 drivers

once irl & cc learn how to have close racing their fanbase will grow 10 fold

nascar a redneck series? no way!
nascar's fanbase covers ALL economic and intellectual levels

[Quetch]

once irl & cc learn how to have close racing their fanbase will grow 10 fold

I don't think the racing can get any closer than it is in the IRL on the 1.5+ mile ovals. For some, however, those races are the most boring. To be honest, I doubt that the formula of success for open-wheel is to "be more like NASCAR." I'd rather follow the paradigma "be as different as you can be."

[T-D]

i was watching nascar on tv since '79. there were far more than 3 nascar races televised in 1987. where did that come from?

and indycool, give us a break, like lee roy said, shut up about the pook quote. no one but you ever gave a rip.

[indycool]

T-D:

1. Don't tell me to shut up.
2. The Pook quote was the elitist mentality showing its colors while NASCAR just went racing with all the sponsors.

[T-D]

now that you've gotten that off your chest, will you finally shut up about it?

[indycool]

If I feel like it. Not if you feel like it.