VAG to pull out of Motorsport post 2016

[Sulland]

Dieselgate forces VAG will pull out of Motorsport by the end of 2016.

Opens up a real Silly Seson!
This deserves it own thread!

Who goes where, and what will the impact on WRC be?

[markf8691]

Sad news...

Apparently Volkswagen Motorsports main program will now be its TCR campaign and it's rallycross campaign.

[stefanvv]

VAG to pull out of motorsport? Really?

[satnav]

This has been the main motorsport talk today , there is not a mention about it on WRC.COM , says a lot about how the whole wrc is being run I think !!!!!

[EightGear]

This has been the main motorsport talk today , there is not a mention about it on WRC.COM , says a lot about how the whole wrc is being run I think !!!!!
Are you serious? Why would they stimulate rumours?

They will report it when it's official news, as they should.

[AL14]

VW out of WRC? Really? OMG!

[stefanvv]

VW out of WRC? Really? OMG!

What? I see different title?!? Really?

[AndyRAC]

Dieselgate forces VAG will pull out of Motorsport by the end of 2016.

Opens up a real Silly Seson!
This deserves it own thread!

Who goes where, and what will the impact on WRC be?

Well it's not entirely true - there will still be VW Group programmes; Formula E, GT Racing, World RX, DTM, TCR, etc

[stefanvv]

Well it's not entirely true - there will still be VW Group programmes; Formula E, GT Racing, World RX, DTM, TCR, etc

Yeah right, but they're still in WEC and WRC as well, aren't they?

[Sulland]

WEC for Audi is cut, in addition to Rally.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-wrc/updated-volkswagen-quits-world-rally-championship-end-2016

lets see what the official story is tomorrow. Hopefully they let Skoda keep on in Wrc2..

[Zeakiwi]

Surey there is a place for the Skoda R5 cars. Would an R5 Polo have a market?
"As of August 2016, Skoda was being sold in 102 countries with planned expansions to South Korea, Singapore and Iran within a year. The decision whether to expand into the North American market is planned to be made in 2017."

[Rallyper]

So what about the WRC 2017 car? Should be run by private team in the future, I do believe.

[Oliverk]

so what about the wrc 2017 car? Should be run by private team in the future, i do believe.

no no no

[Rallyper]

no no no

Private team, so called. Red Bull for example. It´s same same but different, you know.

[cali]

Private team, so called. Red Bull for example. It´s same same but different, you know.
No, highly unlikely.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[Oliverk]

Private team, so called. Red Bull for example. It´s same same but different, you know.

no no no
Can't you read?

[Rallyper]

no no no
Can't you read?

I can read. And you are? Name and rank.

[jonkka]

So what about the WRC 2017 car? Should be run by private team in the future, I do believe.

Not possible according to rules:
Only drivers entered by Manufacturers are eligible to drive 2017 World Rally Cars, with the approval of the FIA.
http://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-3

[Rallyper]

Not possible according to rules:
Only drivers entered by Manufacturers are eligible to drive 2017 World Rally Cars, with the approval of the FIA.
http://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-3

So no M-Sport then? Running VW-team like they do should match.

[smsgrafica]

It's official now. No more WRC for VW.

They will build a Polo R5


Volkswagen richtet Motorsport-Programm neu aus


Neue Technologien und Kundensport-Aktivitäten erhalten höchste Priorität

Engagement in der FIA Rallye-Weltmeisterschaft (WRC) nach zwölf gewonnenen WM-Titeln in Serie abgeschlossen

Beschäftigungsgarantie für die Mitarbeiter
Wolfsburg, 2. November 2016 – Die Marke Volkswagen richtet ihr Motorsport-Programm neu aus. Ab 2017 konzentriert sich Volkswagen auf neue Technologien sowie den Kundensport. Das Engagement in der FIA Rallye-Weltmeisterschaft ist nach vier historisch erfolgreichen Jahren, in denen Volkswagen mit dem Polo R WRC die Titel in Fahrer-, Beifahrer- und Hersteller-Wertung in Serie gewann, abgeschlossen.

„Die Marke Volkswagen steht vor gewaltigen Herausforderungen. Mit dem anstehenden Ausbau der Elektrifizierung unserer Fahrzeugpalette müssen wir all unsere Anstrengungen auf wichtige Zukunftstechnologien konzentrieren. In der WRC haben wir unsere sportlichen Ziele weit übertroffen, nun werden wir Volkswagen Motorsport neu ausrichten und auch dort die Fahrzeugtechnik der Zukunft stärker in den Mittelpunkt rücken“, erklärte Entwicklungsvorstand Frank Welsch vor rund 200 Motorsport-Mitarbeitern in Hannover. „Gleichzeitig wird Volkswagen verstärkt im Kundensport Flagge zeigen. Neben dem Golf GTI TCR auf der Rundstrecke und dem Beetle GRC im Rallycross möchten wir auch im Rallye-Bereich Spitzenprodukte für Kunden anbieten und werden einen neuen Polo nach R5-Reglement entwickeln.“

Mit dem Golf GTI TCR bietet Volkswagen Motorsport seit der Saison 2016 ein seriennahes Kundensport-Fahrzeug für ambitionierte Fahrer und Teams an, die sich auf globaler und nationaler Ebene in der stark wachsenden TCR-Tourenwagen-Kategorie engagieren. In den USA setzt Volkswagen of America erfolgreich zwei Beetle in der Global-Rallycross-Serie ein, die von Volkswagen Motorsport in Hannover entwickelt wurden und bereits für die Saison 2017 vorbereitet werden. Scott Speed gewann den Fahrertitel in der populären US-Serie 2015 und 2016, in dieser Saison ging zusätzlich der Hersteller-Titel an Volkswagen. Aufgrund der vorhandenen Erfahrung im Rallycross wird die Marke einen Ausbau dieser Aktivitäten untersuchen. Darüber hinaus wird Volkswagen 2017 mit der Neuentwicklung eines Rallyefahrzeuges der R5-Kategorie auf Basis der nächsten Fahrzeuggeneration des Polo beginnen, um das Auto ab 2018 Kunden zum Kauf anbieten zu können.

In dieses neue Fahrzeug wird die gesamte Erfahrung aus dem erfolgreichen WRC-Engagement mit dem Polo einfließen, mit dem die Werksteams Sébastien Ogier/Julien Ingrassia, Jari-Matti Latvala/Miikka Anttila und Andreas Mikkelsen/Anders Jæger bei 51 Rallyes zu 42 Siegen und 621 Bestzeiten auf den Sonderprüfungen gefahren sind – kein anderes Auto in der Geschichte der Rallye-WM hat eine bessere Erfolgsquote. Am zurückliegenden Wochenende hatte Volkswagen in Großbritannien den vierten Hersteller-Titel* in der Rallye-WM in Folge gewonnen.

„Ich möchte unseren Fahrern und Beifahrern von Herzen für ihre herausragenden Leistungen danken. Sie sind nicht nur überaus schnelle, sondern auch ungemein sympathische Botschafter der Marke Volkswagen. Das ganze Team um Motorsport-Direktor Sven Smeets hat mit dem enormen Engagement eines jeden einzelnen die Basis für diese Erfolge geschaffen. Mit dieser exzellenten Mannschaft möchten wir weiterarbeiten und die Neuausrichtung umsetzen. Genauso werden wir die enge Zusammenarbeit zwischen Serienentwicklung und Motorsport, von der in den zurückliegenden Jahren stets beide Seiten profitiert haben, ausbauen. Für die Volkswagen Motorsport Mitarbeiter besteht eine Beschäftigungsgarantie“, sagte Entwicklungsvorstand Frank Welsch.

Volkswagen Motorsport-Direktor Sven Smeets erklärte: „Natürlich bedauern wir den Abschied aus der WRC sehr – für die Marke Volkswagen war es das bislang erfolgreichste Kapitel ihrer Motorsport-Geschichte. Die Mannschaft hat Großartiges geleistet. Gleichzeitig ist unser Blick nach vorne gerichtet, denn wir sind uns der großen Herausforderungen des gesamten Unternehmens bewusst. Mit unserer Neuausrichtung möchten wir einen Beitrag für den Erfolg der Marke Volkswagen leisten. Von nun an liegt der Fokus auf kommenden Technologien im Motorsport sowie auf unserem Kundensport-Angebot, welches wir noch breiter und attraktiver aufstellen werden.“

* vorbehaltlich der Bestätigung der Ergebnisse durch die FIA

[FAlonso]

Official Press Release from VW:

https://www.volkswagen-media-service..._auth=ublbR7q7

Here it is. In English.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Goood bye VW

[satnav]

Are you serious? Why would they stimulate rumours?

They will report it when it's official news, as they should.

Yes I was serious , a rumour is "a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth" now everyone knew the story was true and the official announcement was being released this morning , as it was.

Oh and by the way there is still nothing on the official site , even Hyundai has put out a statement regarding the situation.

[HarriK]

From 2017, Volkswagen will focus on new technologies and customer sport

so, what is customer sport? (like M-sport maybe...)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier last week at the Rally Forum:"I admire Malcolm and one of my regrets is not having worked with him, but who knows what the future holds.."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From 2017, Volkswagen will focus on new technologies and customer sport

so, what is customer sport? (like M-sport maybe...)

Customer sport is building an Polo R5.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame we wont ever see this car in competition...:(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwNSF_WXYAAkkOx.jpg:large

[Rally Power]

20 years from now we’ll probably be able to look back and see that VW’s dieselgate was one of the last nails on combustion engine coffin.

Ironically, after sinking the petrol boat VW’s managers are eagerly moving to eco motion land, like frightening rats running for their life’s…the previous VW board was packed with liars; the current one is full of traitors.

They’re not only rejecting Petrolheads and Motorsport fans; they’re rejecting their own heritage. It’s sad and stupid, because renouncing our heritage is the first step to our extinction.

Btw, the promised R5 looks like a consolation prize for rally community; they can stick it up on their asses!

Goodbye VW and good riddance!

[Mirek]

Take a cup of coffee and relax a bit. There are way more serious things on this planet one shall feel betrayed about than is VW decision to end its WRC program.

[Rally Power]

Take a cup of coffee and relax a bit. There are way more serious things on this planet one shall feel betrayed about than is VW decision to end its WRC program.

This is a rally forum mate, not UN general assembly.

[Mirek]

Of course but Your choice of words about one brand's decision to leave a sport they entered only 4 years a go is a bit over the top for me. It's not that long time a go when there was no VAG brand at all in the WRC and now after just four years it's being portrayed like an end of the world when they pack and leave? Everybody knew that VW is not in the sport for ever. They came in to squeeze as much as possible out of it before they throw it behind and go elsewhere just like they did with Dakar before. They don't give a fuck about heritage (which heritage by the way?), they care about money.

[N.O.T]

Of course but Your choice of words about one brand's decision to leave a sport they entered only 4 years a go is a bit over the top for me. It's not that long time a go when there was no VAG brand at all in the WRC and now after just four years it's being portrayed like an end of the world when they pack and leave? Everybody knew that VW is not in the sport for ever. They came in to squeeze as much as possible out of it before they throw it behind and go elsewhere just like they did with Dakar before. They don't give a fuck about heritage (which heritage by the way?), they care about money.

Its not the fact that VW leaves, its the reason that is plain retarded and stupid because of the man made tree hugging agenda.

[Rally Power]

Of course but Your choice of words about one brand's decision to leave a sport they entered only 4 years a go is a bit over the top for me. It's not that long time a go when there was no VAG brand at all in the WRC and now after just four years it's being portrayed like an end of the world when they pack and leave?

You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

By pulling out from LeMans and WRC and entering FE, besides a simultaneous announcement of a strong electric mobility development, VW is making a clear distinction between new clean forms of motorsport and the traditional petrol based ones.

Mass media and the general public, both dominated by political correctness, will take the message as a free pass for moral judgments on current motorsport activities, which are based on a rich culture and heritage that neither the mass media nor the general public wishes to understand and respect.

For sure VW its free to leave, but it shouldn't leave in such an outrageous way.

[JRodrigues]

By pulling out from LeMans and WRC and entering FE, besides a simultaneous announcement of a strong electric mobility development, VW is making a clear distinction between new clean forms of motorsport and the traditional petrol based ones.

You are correct.



Mass media and the general public, both dominated by political correctness, will take the message as a free pass for moral judgments on current motorsport activities, which are based on a rich culture and heritage that neither the mass media nor the general public wishes to understand and respect.

Well.. that's what they needed. These pullouts are not about the money. They are about cleaning their own face to that same mass media and general public. It's what they need. Like it's what they needed when they entered WRC and endurance racing with Audi. This is more of a message that they are doing than anything else.

[Ucci]

Of course but Your choice of words about one brand's decision to leave a sport they entered only 4 years a go is a bit over the top for me. It's not that long time a go when there was no VAG brand at all in the WRC and now after just four years it's being portrayed like an end of the world when they pack and leave? Everybody knew that VW is not in the sport for ever. They came in to squeeze as much as possible out of it before they throw it behind and go elsewhere just like they did with Dakar before. They don't give a fuck about heritage (which heritage by the way?), they care about money.
As much I disagree with Mirek on many occasions, here I stick with him 100%.
VW was nobody five years ago in WRC, they were in this circus yust for comercial reason, after four titles still nobody is and will think about VW personal cars on the same way we all associate Subaru and Mitsubishi (partly also Ford...) with rally. Maybe VW didn't want this, who knows.....Anyway, after few months we will forget them, Ogier&JML&Mikkelsen will get rich $$$ refunds, engineers will be focused on new technologies....and most important: already now we can say that the rest of the drivers have much more possibilities to become 2017 world champion.
Yes, it is a shock, which I don't like, but that is life...sometimes sucks.
Bring on 2017!

[Mirek]

You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

By pulling out from LeMans and WRC and entering FE, besides a simultaneous announcement of a strong electric mobility development, VW is making a clear distinction between new clean forms of motorsport and the traditional petrol based ones.


You are correct.

VAG didn't leave WEC. Audi did but Porsche remains and Porsche is the most powerful body in the VAG structure. This point is more related to the internal struggle between Audi and Porsche but for sure dieselgate played a role as the sole reason why Audi was in WEC was to promote diesel engines. What if somebody starts to ask if maybe Audi cheated there as well?


Mass media and the general public, both dominated by political correctness, will take the message as a free pass for moral judgments on current motorsport activities, which are based on a rich culture and heritage that neither the mass media nor the general public wishes to understand and respect.

We should not look at them as on some sort of evil. They have all the rights to disagree with traditional forms of motorsport just like we have right to disagree with anything else (in my case it's for exampler self-driving cars although it's my colleagues who are developping them). The fundamental change in the perception of mobility in the society is something unstoppable. Dieselgate accelerated the process but it didn't start it. It's the whole society which changes itself and no matter if we like it or not the change must have sooner or later hit traditional motorsports.


Well.. that's what they needed. These pullouts are not about the money. They are about cleaning their own face to that same mass media and general public. It's what they need. Like it's what they needed when they entered WRC and endurance racing with Audi. This is more of a message that they are doing than anything else.

Yes and as such it is logical decision although it is strangely timed. The true petrolheads make only small percentage of VW customers. For majority of the society VW is a giant cheater and a symbol of arrogant business entity whose only concern is money no matter what. The reason why the decision came now may be in internal changes and internal fight between various lobbies.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder what VW actually gained overall from their time in the WRC ?

WRC still means very little to the public and general car buyers... VW's rally success therefore cant have done a lot for their image.

For the actual rally fans, VW's total domination has made the series less attractive as the winner was rarely any doubt. Plus Ogier, due to this and his attitude, has been about the least popular champion I can remember for many years..

I dont see the real benefit for all their success.

[Francis44]

I think you guys underestimate how much of an impact a WRC project can have, when I talk to friends/fellow workers about rally, even a casual, not really interested in cars and motorsport person, knows that VW dominated the championship, they might not even know fully what Rally but they know it was VW win fest, either by casual headlines on sites or the ads on TV.

Plus, I know many examples of people who did not consider VAG and specially VW cars as "sporty" or particularly "durable and effective" machines, a successful WRC campaign can do wonders on that.

I am also very skeptical about electric cars. Selfdriving cars will be the thing sooner or later but thats understandable because safety is number 1, however there will ALWAYS be a market for people who enjoy driving.

[Mirek]

Selfdriving cars will be the thing sooner or later but thats understandable because safety is number 1, however there will ALWAYS be a market for people who enjoy driving.

This is sadly contradicting. Either the whole road traffic goes automatic or not at all. Some automatic cars among man-driven cars cause only huge problems mainly in accountability for accidents. There are way too many situations which can not be solved on automatic basis and for which there is no time to just warn the driver and let the decision upon him. In my opinion there will be first some zones with completely automatic traffic (for example in city centers) and slowly they will get everywhere. It will definitely take many years to come but as of today there is no legislative capable of taking care of accidents with automatic cars in non-automatic traffic (and I doubt it's even possible to make one).

Sorry for off topic.

[Francis44]

This is sadly contradicting. Either the whole road traffic goes automatic or not at all. Some automatic cars among man-driven cars cause only huge problems mainly in accountability for accidents. There are way too many situations which can not be solved on automatic basis and for which there is no time to just warn the driver and let the decision upon him. In my opinion there will be first some zones with completely automatic traffic (for example in city centers) and slowly they will get everywhere. It will definitely take many years to come but as of today there is no legislative capable of taking care of accidents with automatic cars in non-automatic traffic (and I doubt it's even possible to make one).

Sorry for off topic.

Absolutely, I dont know much about the technology but I suspected that aswell. There will always be tracks and roads for people to drive on, I hope so anyway :(.

[stefanvv]

WEC has nothing more to offer to AUDI in terms of hybrid technology development (same, and even more with diesel ones). So is WRC for VW in terms of new technologies. If they're really taking course for newer ones, sadly this quit is the way to do it probably and seems logical. Plus now VW can benefit of selling customer cars in rallying, instead of spending hundred of mils each year.

[Mirek]

Both WEC and Formula-E are some of the very few motorsport activities which have some actual impact on the production cars as the technologies there are relatively new. WRC on the other hand is pure marketing tool. Nothing for stock production is being developed or tested there. Those days are gone.

[stefanvv]

WRC on the other hand is pure marketing tool. Nothing for stock production is being developed or tested there. Those days are gone.

May be VW (and as well Toyota) have had hopes things to change in 2017?

[Mirek]

Why? Every carmaker comes to WRC for marketing reasons. There is no need for developing any stock technologies in there. Really, nobody needs WRC as some sort of testing ground. It has other purpose and everybody involved knows it. 2017 rules change nothing about that. If they went electric or hybrid it would be different but still it would not be the primary purpose, just a secondary useful atribute.

[stefanvv]

Why? Every carmaker comes to WRC for marketing reasons.

Initially yes, but probably after diesel-gate politics changed?!?


2017 rules change nothing about that.

Now that they're a fact, no. But is there a possibility they had adopted different ones, in terms of technology?!?

[Mirek]

That was agreed for next rule change in another 5-6 years. For rallying specifics it would be too early and too expensive.

[giu canbera]

They answered me with a:
"Hello, there are currently no plans for either the existing vehicles or the new ones to be used for customer sport in the WRC"

I asked if "no plans" means "WE WILL NOT GIVE OUR CARS FOR ANYBODY" or "No plans but if RedBull brings the cash for the '17 Polos they'll be on track" - Still waiting for the answer

[EightGear]

They answered me with a:
"Hello, there are currently no plans for either the existing vehicles or the new ones to be used for customer sport in the WRC"

I asked if "no plans" means "WE WILL NOT GIVE OUR CARS FOR ANYBODY" or "No plans but if RedBull brings the cash for the '17 Polos they'll be on track" - Still waiting for the answer
Why are you wasting your time on this?

[giu canbera]

I believe Renault could drop its F1 program by 2019, cuz they are investing in F-E and are looking into WorldRX too.
Motorsport is entering this new era... TBH, I dont believe autoracing will survive having these "Global Series" with Manufacturers onboard. Look at Indycar, BritishRX, BTCC, V8SC... The manufacturers doesnt have their big team beating everybody y'know... This "customer & privateer" teams only could be the best solution for motorsport IMO. ANd lets not forget, we are this close from a new economic crisis. Probably bigger than 2008

[giu canbera]

Why are you wasting your time on this?


I'm unemployed

[Rallyper]

So soon electric autodriven cars in WRX, lead by VW. New times new motorsports. Bah...

[A FONDO]

The marketing exposure may not be much worse. In WRC they had only 13 events with 3 cars, usually one of them in superrally. Budget: over 50 mil. euro.
By 2019 they will have participating and of course winning cars every week in local championships all around Europe. And it will be directly profitable. So the Germans took a sensible move and that's why they are so rich and become even richer - they optimised the finances and kicked the leeches linked with Capito (it's not just the green-eco lobbies who ruined the WRC project as some of you wrote). Arrogant frenchies on the other hand will always decide to spend their last money for making some impression and look where they are.

[Rally Power]

So the Germans took a sensible move and that's why they are so rich and become even richer - they optimised the finances and kicked the leeches linked with Capito (it's not just the green-eco lobbies who ruined the WRC project as some of you wrote). Arrogant frenchies on the other hand will always decide to spend their last money for making some impression and look where they are.

Actually you’re forgetting the japanese, who already defeat the germans on global market and are quite ahead of them on the e motion business, despite keeping a massive presence in almost every forms of motorsport…that’s what you get when you’ve a notorious Petrolhead leading a car company. Well done Toyoda!

Honestly I can’t see the point of praising a bunch of boring economists and accountants that took over Europe’s larger automotive group in order to run it like a grocery. Even washing machines industry executives are more creative and brave than current VW board members.

To the hell with those guys…Rally goes on and ’17 still looks to be the start of another fantastic WRC era!

[A FONDO]

Toyota has big number of sales because of the cheap units sold in the third (fifth) world. Not because of their investments in motorsports. I do not actually praise VW decision makers, just saying that they have their good reason to do it. Your behaviour - to hate someone for not doing what you want - is childish.

[Mirek]

Honestly I can’t see the point of praising a bunch of boring economists and accountants that took over Europe’s larger automotive group in order to run it like a grocery. Even washing machines industry executives are more creative and brave than current VW board members.

That's Porsche family, You know...

[Rally Power]

Toyota has big number of sales because of the cheap units sold in the third (fifth) world. Not because of their investments in motorsports. I do not actually praise VW decision makers, just saying that they have their good reason to do it. Your behaviour - to hate someone for not doing what you want - is childish.

It’s not a question of not having them doing what I want; it’s a question of seeing the sport I love being disrespected by the way VW is leaving WRC.

I don’t forget that the same board members that yesterday announced VW pull out were only a few months ago praising devoted rally fans and mentioning how perfectly WRC fulfilled VW’s expectations: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123183

So, is it childish not to find normal that from night to day WRC no longer suits VW and fans are easily discarded, not to mention their own Motorsport staff and many other VW partners around the rally world? Honestly mate, I prefer to look childish and speak up my founded anger than to appear mature and quietly accept such an outrageous behavior.


Btw, from a long time Toyota leads the US car market, until recently the most powerful market of the world, beating American manus on their own backyard. VW never succeed in the US and has even managed to get totally humiliated by another of their ‘sensible moves’...

[Rally Power]

That's Porsche family, You know...

The decision was taken by the management board, not by the supervisory board. Most likely the Porsche’s had no intervention on this.

[danon]

http://i68.tinypic.com/23lk1vk.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Braunschweig public prosecutors office: 1400 investors have so far sued Volkswagen for damages and are demanding total 8.2 billion Euros...

BILDamSONNTAG reports latest defeat device discovered by CARB (California) in Audi models was also fitted to (unspecified) diesels sold in Europe.

[Rally Power]

Nice to see that Motorsport Monday also shares a “childish” view on VW’s pull out…they call it pusillanimous!
http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=1481923#folio=3
More info on the rally section (page27).

[KiwiWRCfan]

Podcast of Autosport's Dave Evans talking about VW's withdrawal from WRC. It was recorded prior to the withdrawal being confirmed but Dave covers off on many different aspects. He also acknowledges the important contribution VW has made to WRC in recent years

https://soundcloud.com/nzherald/full-noise-podcast-wed-nov-2

[Rally Power]

Not in the mood to sign in, but was it Evans or the German journo from Autocar that broke the story?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Not in the mood to sign in, but was it Evans or the German journo from Autocar that broke the story? German reporter Greg Kable broke the story internationally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why did VW quit the WRC? Brand boss Herbert Diess lets us know: https://t.co/XqyCPJ5RY5

[Franky]

Got to love PR bullshit

[Rallyper]

Why did VW quit the WRC? Brand boss Herbert Diess lets us know: https://t.co/XqyCPJ5RY5

So much bull in that statement.

[dimviii]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/skoda-rules-out-vw-polo-based-world-rally-championship-attack

[Karukera]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/skoda-rules-out-vw-polo-based-world-rally-championship-attack

I'll celebrate when the Czechs cut off the German leash.

[Mirek]

To be fair without the Germans we would likely have no rally team at all and what would be left of Škoda would hardly be a real manufacturer (I mean a thing with own brand and own R&D). Honestly both the German and Czech have benefited hugely from the cooperation and I for myself don't feel any injustice.

[RS]

Generally I agree with what Mirek said although I find it a little frustrating that everything Skoda does has to be sensible and profitable.. it would be nice if they were allowed some products or programmes which had a halo effect on the brand such as a full WRC programme or building a new Fabia RS or a coupe model. Skoda are one of the most profitable brands in the group and have been for some time.

So let's not say cut the leash from VW but to loosen it a little would be nice.

[AndyRAC]

Agree with the last two posts. VW did a lot for Skoda, but even before that there was quite a history of excellent engineering, despite the occupation.
As somone who owned the Fabia vRS Mk1 SE, I would have liked another newer version, but the Mk2 was nothing special - just another 'hot hatch'. And the MK3 Fabia doesn't even have a vRS version. I know plenty of people have left Skoda because that car doesn't exist.
They never did anything to showcase their S2000 car - apart from a 'Monte-Carlo' Fabia, which was a 1.2 petrol, I think...... They should have made something different; like a Fabia (Petrol/ Diesel. Manual/ Auto) with 200+BHP & 4WD, but you get the feeling that's not what the bean counters at VW really wanted for the brand.

[KiwiWRCfan]

"Fancy a VW WRC drive ? It will be possible, says team boss Sven Smeets. @VolkswagenRally to rent out the 2016 machinery"
tweet from freelance Finnish journalist Miika Wuorela who is currently at Rally Australia.
https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/798821278316539908

His next tweet with photo of 2017 polo read "Whereas this beast will get it's homologation but not the final stamp. It will never be used. Pity but true. They worked so hard" https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/798822273025093632

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127133/vw-could-offer-2016-wrc-car-to-privateers

[Jack4688`]

I don't understand why they will go to the bother of finalising the homologation process if the car "will never be used"

[N.O.T]

I don't understand why they will go to the bother of finalising the homologation process if the car "will never be used"

maybe they want to use parts of the car in other motorsport projects.

[Simmi]

I don't understand why they will go to the bother of finalising the homologation process if the car "will never be used"

Matter of pride I guess. Finishing what you started etc. It does literally sound like the car just needed signing off and paperwork so not much more time/effort needs to be invested. One hell of a museum piece.

[AL14]

Guys sorry for the OT and the stupid request.

But may some kind admin delete the red exclamation mark in the title of the thread? It bothers me to see it all the time.

Thanks.

[PLuto]

Guys sorry for the OT and the stupid request.

But may some kind admin delete the red exclamation mark in the title of the thread? It bothers me to see it all the time.

Thanks.

Good idea :)

[AL14]

Thank you guys :)

[WUff1]

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127133/vw-could-offer-2016-wrc-car-to-privateers

Baumschlager is already interested, not sure if for BRR or for himself (Austrian championship, where he probably could beat Neubauer and Grössing in their old Focus WRC´s quite easily then).

[sete]

Neubaurer and Grossing have Fiesta WRC not Focus

[PLuto]

Baumschlager is already interested, not sure if for BRR or for himself (Austrian championship, where he probably could beat Neubauer and Grössing in their old Focus WRC´s quite easily then).

Grössing he can beat also with R5 :)

[over jump]

VW Polo WRC tribute 2013-2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqq6H3eRnE8

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Six cars and the whole package is what VW offers for Polo R WRC16 clients reports https://t.co/I8wiPKsL8e

[itix]

It's funny, we're all talking about the drivers and while they are important I have a feeling that a lot of key staff in VW have got some interesting offers in their mailbox... anyone heard any such news? If Tommi is smart and honest about his long term goals, he will have phoned a fair few in preparation for the -18 season.

[dimviii]

It's funny, we're all talking about the drivers and while they are important I have a feeling that a lot of key staff in VW have got some interesting offers in their mailbox... anyone heard any such news? If Tommi is smart and honest about his long term goals, he will have phoned a fair few in preparation for the -18 season.

only if they are Finnish.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Volkswagen plans to shed 23,000 jobs in Germany to cut costs in wake of emissions scandal.

https://t.co/SJOrLBOmpM https://t.co/3l84YJSfXf

[Rally Power]

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127133/vw-could-offer-2016-wrc-car-to-privateers

Yep, in this wild silly season all news can turn real, but believing that VW Motorsport will get into the renting business and intend to homologate a museum car is a bit too much to me…

[giu canbera]

saw a few tweets suggesting the Polo2017 is being tested in Sweden right now
Can someone confirm?

[PLuto]

saw a few tweets suggesting the Polo2017 is being tested in Sweden right now
Can someone confirm?

No surprise. Sven Smeets confirmed few days ago that all planned tests for the rest of the season will be done according to previous plans.

[RS]

Seems like rather a waste of money when the manufacturer is under pressure to cut costs.

[Franky]

Quitting motorsport programmes is not cost cutting but saving face.

[traxx]

They are going to test in Sweden with Dieping & Gronholm

[pantealex]

They are going to test in Sweden with Dieping & Gronholm

Depping & Grönholm :)

[sete]

I think Gronholm is injured and it was reason why he withdraw from Setkani Mistru at Sosnova?

[MartijnS]

There isn't any logic in remaining the tests or am I missing something?

[mousti]

There isn't any logic in remaining the tests or am I missing something?

It's indeed weird, but Smeets stated to make the car 100 % but will never be homologated.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONE E1003 met Tapatalk

[big_sw2000]

It's indeed weird, but Smeets stated to make the car 100 % but will never be homologated.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONE E1003 met Tapatalk

They are going to homologate it as well. Just not give it its competition stamp.


Steve

[Rallyper]

So who says FIA ain´t gonna swap rules in favour for AM to let drive a 2017 Polo in private team?

[Jasper]

It's indeed weird, but Smeets stated to make the car 100 % but will never be homologated.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONE E1003 met Tapatalk

It was/is the meaning to homologate the car. But the car can't be totally homologated, because you need to be competing with the car to get the stamp.

[Doon]

So who says FIA ain´t gonna swap rules in favour for AM to let drive a 2017 Polo in private team?

If that happened (which it won't), there would be another driver who would be at the front of the queue.

[Rallyper]

If that happened (which it won't), there would be another driver who would be at the front of the queue.

And what says that´s not an option? Who knows what´s going on behind the curtains?

[Rally Power]

Mr. Holmes also puzzled with recent VW Motorsport moves:
http://www.autosport.pt/ralis/wrc/volkswagen-vai-homologar-polo-2017/

And there’s a wild rumour going on: VW M also considering to rent ’17 cars for 10m a year! http://www.sportmotores.com/portal/!site.go?s=1341554717&p=.20055&id=47127

[Mirek]

And there’s a wild rumour going on: VW M also considering to rent ’17 cars for 10m a year! http://www.sportmotores.com/portal/!site.go?s=1341554717&p=.20055&id=47127

According to the rules it's not possible to homologate the car without manufacturer entry.

[janvanvurpa]

According to the rules it's not possible to homologate the car without manufacturer entry.


Pravda? I think maybe they can just submit the Homologation papers, pay the fee, and PooF!
the car--or part is "Homologated".

Certainly was so in the past..

[liposh]

What means manufacturer entry? How is it in m-sport case? May be the new Polo 17 homologated as "Redbull Polo 17?" VW will for sure pay for homologation in any case, Redbull will put only its name on it and will send manufacturer entry with two cars and then together with VW they can rent it to anybody who would like to drive it during the season.

[Franky]

What means manufacturer entry? How is it in m-sport case? May be the new Polo 17 homologated as "Redbull Polo 17?" VW will for sure pay for homologation in any case, Redbull will put only its name on it and will send manufacturer entry with two cars and then together with VW they can rent it to anybody who would like to drive it during the season.

It still needs the manufacturer's blessings. Otherwise the Mirage R5 would have FIA homologation, not just local.

[Rally Power]

Pravda? I think maybe they can just submit the Homologation papers, pay the fee, and PooF! the car--or part is "Homologated". Certainly was so in the past..

Yep, both Red Bull and Qatar have deep pockets to do it.

Homologation process is always made by a manu but the mandatory entry team can be a different entity, as long it’s endorsed by the manu. That’s why MSport is allowed as a WRC team and Mini’s last official entry was made under the name WRC Team Mini Portugal (Araujo's team license).

Anyway, for now only the scheduled FIA inspection of the '17 Polo seems to be confirmed. The 5 units building and a possible partner paying VW Motorsport to run a semi official team looks very unlikely, still...

[janvanvurpa]

Yep, both Red Bull and Qatar have deep pockets to do it.

Homologation process is always made by a manu but the mandatory entry team can be a different entity, as long it’s endorsed by the manu. That’s why MSport is allowed as a WRC team and Mini’s last official entry was made under the name WRC Team Mini Portugal (Araujo's team license).

Anyway, for now only the scheduled FIA inspection of the '17 Polo seems to be confirmed. The 5 units building and a possible partner paying VW Motorsport to run a semi official team looks very unlikely, still...


Which is a shame because all the expertise and knowledge and organisation in the VW team goes POOF!
In all the discussion ow "where will Ogier (and also Latvala) go I was wondering if we could see what Ogier himself is made of, and by that I mean to make a reference to when Petter Sohlberg finally left Subaru and "wandered in the desert" for a while but then he showed who he was, and how important rallying was to himself: He put together a whole team and arranged finance and went out on his own and did a damn good job..

I had never really been a "fan" of Sohlberg prior to that, but when he said in essence "fawk it I'll do it myself" I re-thought and said "There's a real man, he's not giving up and that's the spirit I want to see".

And I contrasted that with McRae, with Hirvonen and a number of others who when they couldn't get a paid ride just quit.
And I wondered if Ogier was really dedicated to go rally above all...if that was the important thing in his life..

We won't have a chance to see that I guess.

[danon]

Farewell | WRC 2016: VW RALLYTHEWORLD -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_puY27KPo

[RS]

I wonder whether VW have taken delivery of their Fabia R5s yet so they can copy them again for the Polo R5?

[N.O.T]

Farewell | WRC 2016: VW RALLYTHEWORLD -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_puY27KPo

Good riddance you lying cheating bozzos... go endorse your tree hugging faggot clients.

[danon]

https://s5.postimg.org/6ylw7t6yv/VW_Farewell_2016.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/jd8o84ygz/)

[Rally Power]

Interesting article: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2016/12/03/polo-wrc-2017-sorgt-al-attiyah-fuer-eine-ueberraschung/
It says that Nasser Al-Attiyah tries to form a private team entering two Polo WRC´17 next year. It´s based on the fact that Qatar holds 17% of the VAG-group. Teammate should be Sébastien Ogier. He is interested in that because the Ford and Toyota don´t seem to be competitive.
Normally "rallye-magazin" is quite well informed...

Nothing new...that's the rumour that has been around since it was clear that VW would continue the new Polo homologation. If it happens, it won’t be a private team like we’re used to. It’s more a non official in-house team, as VW Motorsport would be running the ’17 WRC Polo’s on behalf of a sponsor named team.

VW doesn’t need to get publicly involved (like it's their wish), but besides keeping to pay VW Motorsport staff it would also give some tech support, as only an auto manufacturer is entitled to homologate a WRC car and appoint its representative WRC running team. Btw, whatever team is appointed by VW it’ll have to run at least 2 cars along the new Polo first season, otherwise the car homologation would be cancelled.

Qatar and Al-Atiyah have been rumoured since day one, because of their links with VW and Red Bull, but the other driver of this hypothetical Qatar/Red Bull team remains in doubt: will he be another paying driver or one of the current VW drivers? Bets on and fingers crossed!

[RS]

Yes, I can't imagine VW allowing their 2017 car to be run by a private team.. but what about the 2016 cars? Would they sell them off or would they have to be run by VW themselves too?

[Rally Power]

I believe Smeets already said their aim is to rent the cars and VW M staff seems available to service them.

[seb_sh]

Yes, they repeatedly said they have six '16 cars on offer to rent in 2017. They want to rent cars, it's their new focus.

Also overall it's now a bit more clear to me what they want to do. Essentially they won't close the department but instead focus it purely to customer service, similar to what they're doing with Audi. So essentially they're turning an investment and r&d department supported by marketing and r&d budget into a service department for customers that will make them money. So I expect we will see some '16 Polo's for the next couple of years and then a bunch of R5's.

The question is if anyone can come up with a deal to run the '17 cars in a similar way. I guess it depends if it's just financial or logistic. Focusing the team on servicing '16 cars and producing R5s may not leave enough people available to run the '17 cars. The scenario in which this works is quite complex with many parts needing to come together:
you need a sponsor: eg. Qatar/Al-Attiyah or Red Bull
you need manpower: VW diverting people from other projects, or an outside team like PH Sport did for Citroen
drivers: if Ogier does go to M-Sport or Citroen and JML to Toyota, just leaves Mikkelsen as a top driver available

it's a bit of a fairytale scenario

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pity M-Sport bothered with the new Fiesta... they could've just taken the Polo's off VWs 's hands... ;) And Ogier.

[Rally Power]

it's a bit of a fairytale scenario

Actually sometimes fairytales becomes real, not by magic but trough passion and hard work. VW Motorsport rally staff has both and so has Al-Attiyah. It’d be great having them around, with or without Ogier. Fingers crossed!

[pantealex]

I strongly believe that next week we will know:
A) Where is Ogier going
B) Who is driving Toyota

[Andre Oliveira]

A) M-Sport
B) Latvala

[Simmi]

Really quite interesting to see this play out. Toying with the emotions of rally fans.

When the news broke everyone wanted Ogier to go to M-Sport. I wonder now whether I would prefer that scenario or two private Polos for Seb and Nasser?

[dimviii]

. I wonder now whether I would prefer that scenario or two private Polos for Seb and Nasser?
what about the evolution of the car? who is going to do it?

[Simmi]

what about the evolution of the car? who is going to do it?

Same VW team guys in different uniforms?

[dimviii]

Same VW team guys in different uniforms?

so not cost cutting.Why to do it and not remain as they were?

[the sniper]

so not cost cutting.Why to do it and not remain as they were?

The motorsport cull was a PR exercise.

[dimviii]

The motorsport cull was a PR exercise.

for whatever PR exercise ,you cant just change the name and continue to do as last year after some days.

[Simmi]

for whatever PR exercise ,you cant just change the name and continue to do as last year after some days.

I would be inclined to agree with you but nothing would surprise me anymore. Like sniper says it's just PR smoke and mirrors. Once the headlines go out that they have cut their WRC programme the work is almost done. The decision to retain all staff tells you everything you need to know. They have more than enough money to continue rallying.

But we don't even know if the Qatar story is real so no need to debate too much right now.

[the sniper]

for whatever PR exercise ,you cant just change the name and continue to do as last year after some days.

Not exactly the same, but not entirely different, look at Honda F1 to Brawn GP or Ford WRT to Msport. Yes VW is in house, but the main obstacle has already been overcome with them being up for running customers with that team. Surely the only barrier to running 2017 cars is the amount of money required as it'll require a greater, longer term investment that very few (realistically only Red Bull or Qatar) can provide.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility at all.

[Mirek]

The motorsport cull was a PR exercise.

That's not true. It was a pressure from labor union to cut cost due to management intention to fire 30 thousand people. The PR factor is only a part of the story even though important.

[Rally Power]

I would be inclined to agree with you but nothing would surprise me anymore. Like sniper says it's just PR smoke and mirrors. Once the headlines go out that they have cut their WRC programme the work is almost done. The decision to retain all staff tells you everything you need to know. They have more than enough money to continue rallying.

I don’t believe that a third party team run by VW Motorsport would be on VW’s board members minds when they’ve decided to pull out. It seems more a fallback solution, most likely put toghether by top VW M staff and some sensible VW managers in order to resolve VW M immediate future.

VW M personnel cost could be the only expense for VW on this possible WRC venture, with Qatar and Red Bull paying testing and running costs. VW could also save some money on their driver’s contract deals, if they manage to keep one of them on this new team.

At the end VW would still be in WRC, for a fraction of what they’ve been spending and without the need to get their name officially involved, saving them from political or labor protests. It really seems the perfect fallback solution!

[Rally Power]

Maybe the VW private entry issue it’s better on this topic.


I'm not against VW participating, quite the contrary but if I was a team manager, I would not see a point to let them in unless they commit the same way as the rest of the teams.

VW plan B to get the ’17 Polo in WRC it’s an exceptional move and it deserves exceptional treatment, not a brainless administrative response.
For sure WRC officials can stick to the rules and say goodbye to VW, but they also can get smart and figure a way for VW Motorpsort to run the car and keep a certain WRC involvement.
Dieselgate can still roll some heads on VW top management. Who knows, maybe those that vote in favour of the WRC pull out will be the next ones...

[Sulland]

Rebadge the Polo to Fabia WRC, Skoda runs it, Volkswagen Audi Gruppe homologates.

[smsgrafica]

Rebadge the Polo to Fabia WRC, Skoda runs it, Volkswagen Audi Gruppe homologates.
You can't be serious, are you?!?! It's not as easy as putting the Fabia exterior on a Polo chassis... :rolleyes:

[Mirek]

Actually it shouldn't be that difficult. Both Polo and Fabia share the same PQ26 platform. Most of the new work would be likely on the aerodynamic design. On the other hand I am quite sure it won't happen.

[smsgrafica]

Even IF it was so easy (it isn't), you'd need at least a new rollcage and new aero. These things would take time...

[seb_sh]

The technical difficulty is not even the issue here, regardless of which brand "runs" it, the issue is they won't allocate budget so even if you could convert the Polo to a Fabia just by snapping your fingers it wouldn't help at all. Someone else (not in VW group) needs to fork up the cash.