Is VW still the best car?

[smsgrafica]

What do you think, is the Polo still the best car of them all, or has Hyundai caught up with it or even overtaken the VW?

I think both cars are on equal terms now. Apart from Ogier, who is the better driver of them all, the driver lineup is more or less the same value and their stage times pretty much equal one another.

[AL14]

It seems Hyundai is more or less on the same level judging from times.... Especially on the last few rallys.

At rally Legend press conference, Markus Gronholm said clearly that other cars improved compared to VW because they (VW) stopped R&D this year to fully concentrate for 2017, while others continued to develop their cars.

[Mirek]

I agree with You guys. It's clearly Ogier who makes the difference not the car.

[denkimi]

i would say the vw is still the best car, but not by a big margin.
not because ogier is winning, but because i believe sordo is better on tarmac than latvala, yet latvala sets faster stage times when he's not crashing.

i suspect ogier would still be world champion when driving a hyundai, but i would also suspect that sordo would have won in spain if he was driving the vw and ogier the hyundai.

[N.O.T]

VW is still the best car but the difference from the Hyundai is not that big anymore.

[dupanton]

Don't forget the Citroën. People underestimate the Citroën (and overestimate Meeke and Breen...)

[dimviii]

i would say the vw is still the best car, but not by a big margin.
not because ogier is winning, but because i believe sordo is better on tarmac than latvala, yet latvala sets faster stage times when he's not crashing.

i suspect ogier would still be world champion when driving a hyundai, but i would also suspect that sordo would have won in spain if he was driving the vw and ogier the hyundai.

agree

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Judging by the continual complaints from all its drivers (oversteer, understeer, sometimes 'undrivable' etc.) its clear to me the Hyundai still has a way to go.

Very few complaints from the VW men about the Polo.

[BigWorm]

Yes.

The Hyundai can be as quick at times but the VW has that consistency that Hyundai doesn't have. The Polo is basically flawless, the i20 isn't. Neuville, Sordo and Paddon are always complaining about something, every rally it seems to understeer for instance.

Ogier is still Ogier though. He could win on a regular basis in the Fiesta.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Put Ogier in a Citroen and it'll be the best car. Two year old car I say.

[GravelBen]

i would say the vw is still the best car, but not by a big margin.
not because ogier is winning, but because i believe sordo is better on tarmac than latvala, yet latvala sets faster stage times when he's not crashing.

i suspect ogier would still be world champion when driving a hyundai, but i would also suspect that sordo would have won in spain if he was driving the vw and ogier the hyundai.

I agree also.

[stefanvv]

Don't forget the Citroën. People underestimate the Citroën (and overestimate Meeke and Breen...)

I don't think Meeke is overestimated. One of our young drivers (Hyundai trophy owner for 2nd year) believes he has the cleanest style after Ogier.

[dimviii]

Paddon answers about how better is polo

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Ο χρήστης Hayden Paddon έκανε Retweet Mitja Kravanja

I think we are pretty close - in some conditions they have adv, but most of the time we can keep pace now. No one knows for next year yet

[TWRC]

I don't think Meeke is overestimated. One of our young drivers (Hyundai trophy owner for 2nd year) believes he has the cleanest style after Ogier.
Yes, someone from Citroën said that Meeke's style is pretty reminiscent of Loeb's, that's why he got on so well with the DS3 so quickly, also that's why they were able to use Loeb's setups for him with only minor tweaks.

[stefanvv]

Yes, someone from Citroën said that Meeke's style is pretty reminiscent of Loeb's, that's why he got on so well with the DS3 so quickly, also that's why they were able to use Loeb's setups for him with only minor tweaks.

Breen seems comfortable with it too. Next year is going to be interesting.

[tommeke_B]

In a WRC season, manufacturers can use only 3 engines per car. Actually one more if they request for it and have a good reason (which I think they will all have), so 4 engines per car per season. There's a similar rule regarding gearbox and diffs. Now my question is, does Citroën ("PH Sport") have to comply to these rules? Since they're not registered as a manufacturer, I think they don't. How much advantage can Citroën get from being able to have a new/different engine/gearbox etc every event? Maybe this could explain the fact that Citroën is more competitive this year on the events they're doing. Maybe someone on this forum who has more insight on the technical side of the sport can give us an explanation?

[Doon]

I don't think next year will be as good as some are predicting. Ogier its going to hammer everyone, and Meeke will crash a lot. I don't believe the hype around the cars either, I can't see how they will be more spectacular with a few big wings and an extra few hp.

[pantealex]

They have 2 rallies left with current cars, it does´t matter anymore is polo quickest.

Next year new cars, maybe some other car is faster but Ogier will still be 2017 champion!

[dimviii]

In a WRC season, manufacturers can use only 3 engines per car. Actually one more if they request for it and have a good reason (which I think they will all have), so 4 engines per car per season. There's a similar rule regarding gearbox and diffs. Now my question is, does Citroën ("PH Sport") have to comply to these rules? Since they're not registered as a manufacturer, I think they don't. How much advantage can Citroën get from being able to have a new/different engine/gearbox etc every event? Maybe this could explain the fact that Citroën is more competitive this year on the events they're doing. Maybe someone on this forum who has more insight on the technical side of the sport can give us an explanation?

that would be an advantage,if they did all rallies. With less than half rallies,they dont need a new engine/diff at every round.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We can only pray that another car is faster in 2017 ... that's the only way someone can remotely challenge Ogier.

But the chances are slim to none as VW have been testing their new car for longer than anyone.

[dimviii]

I pray to up the pace Meeke,Neuville,Paddon,Tanak(at Msport?) Breen etc.
i dont mind if Ogier takes another 4 championship in a row,i just want to see to gain these championships with proper fights and have competition.
Till now i have no indicator for this though...
lets hope that new regulations can shake things a bit.

[Mirek]

But the chances are slim to none as VW have been testing their new car for longer than anyone.

VW is not the reason why Ogier keeps winning. He would win the title with Hyundai or Citroën and maybe even with M-Sport as well. Look how much of competitition Latvala and Mikkelsen make. None... and they have the same car.

[smokingjoe]

We can only pray that another car is faster in 2017 ... that's the only way someone can remotely challenge Ogier.

But the chances are slim to none as VW have been testing their new car for longer than anyone.according to julian porter, vw are concerned the citroen engine is far more developed having used it in wtcc for many years ???

[Mirek]

The engine rules except the restrictor size remain unchanged. It shall not be that difficult.

[TWRC]

according to julian porter, vw are concerned the citroen engine is far more developed having used it in wtcc for many years ???
If I remember correctly, in a promo video Citroën says the C3 engine is new, only based on the WTCC engine, which in return was also new, only based on the DS3 engine... So yes, maybe there's more experience beind it, but I'm not afraid for VW, they have enough resources and experience on their own to make as good an engine as Citroën can.

[er88]

Citroen's new car will be closer to the VW than the current DS3 is, which hasn't been properly developed after Citroën left to focus on the WTCC (which they dominated).

There's more chance the C3 is the best car next year, than there is of it being off the pace off the VW. Citroën simply don't build anything other than exceptional WRC cars. That in itself should be exciting for us because Meeke will be in a car that is on a more level playing field with the VWs, and he's already shown he has great speed.

Hyundai are now a proper WRC team with a huge budget and have experience of building multiple cars, so will have hopefully learned from their mistakes. Neuville and Paddon also have a lot of room for improvement and it seems Thierry has got his mojo back somewhat.

Msport also don't build bad cars, and that Ford looked impressive in the testing videos I've seen. With Tanak back in the main team he should be able to seriously challenge for victories on quite a few rounds. And who knows, maybe Ford could return in the not to distant future if Tanak starts to become the complete package ;).

Toyota is the only worry for me, but I hope to be proved wrong and see that they're on the pace.

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[gorganl2000]

VW is not the reason why Ogier keeps winning. He would win the title with Hyundai or Citroën and maybe even with M-Sport as well. Look how much of competitition Latvala and Mikkelsen make. None... and they have the same car.

just some thoughts from a different perspective
i've been thinking about it for quite a while now and i must say that i'm still at undecided. i do think Ogier is presently the best all-round driver and i do think VW is the best all-round car. Though the Hyundai and Citroen appear to be still very competitive, they may lose time slight under certain conditions. Is the Ford on the same level or a little further back from the Citroen and Hyundai, I dont know for sure as i cant pinpoint if its the car and/or the current msport drivers?? We all have seen Tanak do some decent times/stages in the ford in the recent past, but is that within/on the limit or over the limit high risk driven times??

Now with that in mind, we are talking about the WRC, where it is believed that the "best of the best" drivers in the rally world are competing for top honours in top built cars. Drivers here are competing for tenths of a second on each km/stage---similar to other sports. When we have a combination of the best driver and best car together, those tenth's can begin to accumulate rather quickly as usually seen in the rallies. Ogier is a very talented and smart guy, he can mostly drive within the limit or just on it and pretty much win stages/rallies as he know his car allows him to do that. Now, the other manufacturer drivers (Meeke, Neuville, Tanak, Sordo, etc.) must drive their respective cars on the limit or over the limit always to try to match those times, as there may be no reasonable chance of winning a rally otherwise---in many cases unless Ogier retires from an event or they get favourable road positions/weather.

on the other note, i have stopped comparing Latvala and Mikkelsen to Ogier a long time ago. i think that they are both decent drivers, but just not on the level to take the fight to Ogier, for one reason or the other. They have both been consistently driving in WRC or other high level for long enough. i really hope i'm wrong, but i don't foresee any more potential from them unless they can manage to tap into something deep within themselves.

Now here's why i'm unsure, if Ogier was in a Citroen/Hyundai/Ford competing against Meeke/Tanak/Neuville/Paddon/Sordo in VWs, would he need to drive outside of his comfort zone and on/over the limit more often to be competitive? Would getting those cumulative tenths of a second become a more difficult task? Its certainly a different type of pressure to be under, which may make things less comfortable. Some drivers handle pressure better than others. There is a thin line between knowing that you and your car are on the limit (possibly settling for a lower position) and going over the limit into very high risk areas (possibly winning or gaining a better position, but usually crashing).

so things are not really simple

[Andre Oliveira]

VW is not the reason why Ogier keeps winning. He would win the title with Hyundai or Citroën and maybe even with M-Sport as well. Look how much of competitition Latvala and Mikkelsen make. None... and they have the same car.

200% with you. Ogier is still the main difference.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I never said the VW was the reason Ogier keeps winning. He is the best driver. Currently his car is also as good as any.

BUT if others had a faster car than him it would give them a chance to compete.

I hope the Citroen engine rumour is true and at least they have some advantage to take him on in 2017..