Matt Neal's comments in MN [Archive]

bt52b

27th April 2007, 15:09

After his clash with Turk, the marshals put a tow rope on the back. Matt took it off. A marshal was going to sit in it while it was being towed, but Matt said he was the only one who would be sitting in the car if it was towed. Then the 'A Team' towed the car thru' gravel at 30mph, causing more damage. The matter is under investigation.

Think Neal was wrong in how he recated to the situation, but the marshals were wrong in towing a car, that shouldn't have been towed.

Which is why Steve Neal suggests there should be a dedicated elite band of BTCC marshals.

Probably would be good if the teams gave more support to the marshals.

Jimmy Magnusson

27th April 2007, 17:23

Which is why Steve Neal suggests there should be a dedicated elite band of BTCC marshals.

Probably would be good if the teams gave more support to the marshals.

Dedicated marshal team is a fine idea, but it costs ££... And I suspect most teams think that the marshals generally do a good job for free! Perhaps some better info meetings (or an additional hour for training before the weekend, or better established routines) could be a good idea?

reidy_fan

27th April 2007, 17:39

cant be bothered re-typing what I put on another forum so here is a copy and paste

read that in MN, if Steve neal wants the marshals to have BTCC training then he should pay for them do do it on the thrursday, cover their day off work, training costs, feeding them etc. The british motorsport marshal is probably the most highly trained in the world, they all attend training days in their own time to get the skills and most have many years experience and it is thanks to the marshals we have motorsport in the 1st place

If Mr Gow reads this please tell Steve and matt Squeal to shut their big gobs or just go away and join the WTCC and their constand wingeing after every weekend where something goes wrong is getting boring

think what a lot of folk forget is that most marshals choose not to do BTCC and with Squeal snr giving them verbal a lot more will choose not to. and eventually you will get to the stage that BTCC will not have enough cover then what happens???? You cant afford to p!$$ off volunteers unlive paid staff they can and will not turn up

if Steve had any sense he would turn up at the marshals campsite at Thruxton on the friday night say sorry, was a heat of the moment comment etc etc and dish out a few cases of beer to the guys and girls

bt52b

27th April 2007, 18:04

think what a lot of folk forget is that most marshals choose not to do BTCC and with Squeal snr giving them verbal a lot more will choose not to. and eventually you will get to the stage that BTCC will not have enough cover then what happens???? You cant afford to p!$$ off volunteers unlive paid staff they can and will not turn up

if Steve had any sense he would turn up at the marshals campsite at Thruxton on the friday night say sorry, was a heat of the moment comment etc etc and dish out a few cases of beer to the guys and girls

Surely you can't be saying it was right to two the Honda. Its not that hard to lift it, if the facility is put there for the marshals to use?

Since Matt and Steve Neal are wound up, why not point them in the right direction and use there anger to improve they way events are run.

TCuns

27th April 2007, 18:58

Daddy and Little Matty, moaning again, it is pathetic, its just a great shame that the BTCC has them both as double champions, because they do the sport immense damage with their arrogant behaviour. Just because they got a rules concession that meant they were able to run what was practically a GT Car to two championship wins, hope they plunge down the standings this year. Just glorified stock car racers, that’s all that team is!

Robinho

27th April 2007, 19:05

its not like the car couldn't be towed, they did connect the rope to the tow loop, and i would imagine that it is mandatory that the cars have a towing loop.

fair enough wanting to keep the car from further damage, but the fact is they were out of the race and the car needed to be recovered form a dangerous position to enale the race to continue. Neal (snr and jnr) could do with realising they are not bigger than the sport and that they are not owed something from everyone just becauset hey have graced us with their prescence. getting at the marshalls is the surest way to alienate themselves further.

if they want things done differently there are ways to conduct yourself, shouting and swearing at the volunteers who mean they can race and then suggesting that they are not doing the job the way you want in the press is not the way.

Hazell B

27th April 2007, 20:13

As Robinho said, it had to be towed because other people are there racing. It's a car RACE, not a car LIFTING competition.

I suggest the marshalls lift, ever so gently, any other cars that come off the track in future, thus allowing the TD boys to moan about too many safety car periods, delays and debris being scattered far and wide by lifting trucks leaving the gravelled areas.

MG2004

27th April 2007, 20:26

Matt also reckons they towed his car at 30mph through the gravel.

Hmmm...if it can accelerate to 30mph, in that short distance, through gravel, while towing a load of a heavy car and a big head then I want me one of those tow trucks!!

I think 30mph is another case of massive exaggeration from Mr Neal. Didn't take long for the "we're special, we should be treated differently to everybody else" whingeing to start did it. Who had round 2 in the sweepstake?

BDunnell

27th April 2007, 20:28

its not like the car couldn't be towed, they did connect the rope to the tow loop, and i would imagine that it is mandatory that the cars have a towing loop.

Which would suggest to the marshals, who after all would probably not have encountered that particular car before, that it could be towed. There's no need for Neal to have had a go in that way.

Hazell B

27th April 2007, 20:38

Hmmm...if it can accelerate to 30mph .....I want me one of those tow trucks!!

Me too! I tow stuff about daily and there's not a vehicle about that can manage that speed. Unless it's a misquote, as is so often the case, and he said it was towed at 30 at some point while being recovered.

Anyhow, it's on camera, so the authorities can have a look and cast judgement. Then again, why should we expect even that to be fair, given past history with this team :mark:

reidy_fan

27th April 2007, 21:21

there is no way taht the car could have been towed at 30mph, it would have been towed to a place it could have been put onto a flat bed. Unfortunately to lift a car using a hiab takes a lot longer and cannot usually be done under safety car conditions

bt52b

27th April 2007, 22:24

The new BTCC Elite Recovery Unit:
http://pix.nofrag.com/5a/f7/ebcc8fb0452741d71eba645ff0e1t.jpg (http://pix.nofrag.com/5a/f7/ebcc8fb0452741d71eba645ff0e1.html)

KILOHMUNNS

27th April 2007, 22:44

What are TD like, getting sick of blaming everyone else for their problems. I used to be a big supporter and he has always been a top bloke whenever I have met him, but having a go at a marshall for doing his job is unacceptable. I want to see racing not safety car laps just because a pre-madonna doesn't want his car scratched, it's just a car and can be repaired, if you don't want it damaged then drive a bit better!!

thetrooper_uk

27th April 2007, 23:29

In the whole time Matt has been in the BTCC I have never heard him say it was his fault for any of the crashes and offs that has happened to him. At least the other drivers admit they are at fault sometimes. Also isn't it strange why it's always him that gets involved in these incidents. Matt if your reading stop looking for excuses and reasons why these things happen, just concentrate on racing.

touringlegend

28th April 2007, 10:07

The Neal's have always been moaning, ever since they became regular front runners. I preferred them in the Super Touring days when they were just a very good privateer!

Allyc85

28th April 2007, 12:14

^ I agree with that

kali

28th April 2007, 18:05

He's just pissed that his chances of making the triple are over.

Nick The Flick

28th April 2007, 19:51

No matter what those persons in orange did or didn't do... you have to agree that the TH boys did a marvellous job in getting both cars out for race 3.

I think it is time to get pro-marshalls into the BTCC. It would be probably be less than a £1 on the ticket price to pay for them (maybe some sponsorship for their overalls too) and it would probably make the day run more smoothly too...

Allyc85

28th April 2007, 19:52

I think the marshalls all do a awsome job as it is! theres no need to put them down just because one cry baby spits is dummy out!

Hazell B

28th April 2007, 20:05

Besides that fact that another quid on the ticket price is a quid too much, I too think the marshalls do a great job and shouldn't be replaced with 'pros' at all. In fact, it's a bit of an insult to say they should be pushed out in favour of paid marshalls.

Nick The Flick

28th April 2007, 20:13

I didn't say they should be pushed out, just have a squad of elite marshalls that covers BTCC, or at least works with the existing marshalls on every post around the circuit.

Hazell B

28th April 2007, 20:19

Same thing.

If somebody with 'elite' as you put it tacked onto their job description stood over you while you worked, you'd sure as hell feel pushed out. The guys doing the job now haven't made any mistakes as far as this thread reads, so why introduce new faces?

BDunnell

28th April 2007, 20:19

As the old saying goes, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'. What is wrong with the current arrangements?

Whitestar7

28th April 2007, 21:15

Allyc85

28th April 2007, 21:55

my thoughts exactly

BDunnell

28th April 2007, 22:00

Mine too.

Sheila M

29th April 2007, 00:09

I think it is time to get pro-marshalls into the BTCC. It would be probably be less than a £1 on the ticket price to pay for them (maybe some sponsorship for their overalls too) and it would probably make the day run more smoothly too...

What a complete and utter load of garbage. It's quite obvious from that comment that you have no concept of what a British Motorsport marshal is or how many days a year they work at EVERY circuit round the UK, including F1 at Silverstone. If they're good enough for F1, they're good enough for a lesser formula such as BTCC.

As a marshal with 16 years experience (and with a Clerk of the Course licence to boot) I would not want to work with someone who only did the job because they got paid for it.

As for Jimmy Magnussons comment
Perhaps some better info meetings (or an additional hour for training before the weekend, or better established routines) could be a good idea? again, another person who has absolutely no idea of how much training unpaid, volunteer marshals do in THEIR OWN TIME AND AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE.

British Motorsport Marshals also volunteer for overseas events and play a huge role in training "foreign" marshals in their own countries.

Our recent past president was Murray Walker. Bless him, he banged on for hours that the British Motorsport Marshals were the best in the world. I wouldn't go that far but the Club has been in existence for 50 years now - therefore I would suggest that we have a vague idea of what we are doing.

Kev the Marshal.

29th April 2007, 11:30

Surely you can't be saying it was right to two the Honda. Its not that hard to lift it, if the facility is put there for the marshals to use?

Point one, BTCC cars are relatively heavy beasts - and if it's driven into a gravel trap out of the reach of the lift truck, there's no other option but to drag it to a point where it can be reached.

We do NOT have a JCB on every gravel trap!

Point Two, Don't blame the marshals. They could have been ordered to tow the car by race control - and I've known that happen with British F3s and GTs; they were literally told to drag a ferrari through the gravel despite their protests that it needed a lift.

Point Three, You try a snatch under saftey car conditions! it's not easy!

and Point Four and final point, at the end of the day, a BTCC car is just another salloon racer, like I've never handled one of those before. What special training is needed for something which we handle nearly every weekend? If the Neals have a problem, they can take it up with the Clerk of the Course after the race, not throw their toys out of the pram and go straight for the press.

ADnet

29th April 2007, 19:27

Indeed, there have been a lot of good points made here regarding the marshalls doing their job properly, and that yes infact the Neal's are infact moaners. And i totally agree.

The marshalls do an excellent job, and just because one silly little school boy spits his dummy out, doesn't mean anytrhing to me, if the car needs moving, you move it, and to a degree, regardless of any more slight damage that may be caused.

Marshalls, Big Thumbs up, keep up the awesome work!

Matt Neal, please, shut up and let people get on with their jobs, we don't tell you how to drive, so just get on with it.

BeansBeansBeans

29th April 2007, 20:40

Matt Neal seems a decent guy, but he does have a petulant streak which rears it's ugly head whenever he ends up on the wrong end of an incident. TD were genuine 'People's Champions' in 2005, but the comments being made by Neals Jr and Sr are slowly turning public opinion against them. Criticising marshals in this way is beyond the pale.

BDunnell

29th April 2007, 20:57

I for one hope that someone representing the marshals at Rockingham or more generally has a letter published in the next Motoring News refuting the remarks.

Bezza

29th April 2007, 21:22

I didn't say they should be pushed out, just have a squad of elite marshalls that covers BTCC, or at least works with the existing marshalls on every post around the circuit.

Not even F1 has something like this. The marshals are awesome and at each track in the country do their job effectively and safely. THEY know the best way to do things, not Big Time Charlie and Son. If I was a marshal and was told by Neal to "F*** off" then I would have clobbered him. There is just no need for that.

Neal should be looking more at why he felt the need to try to drive Turks off the road. Still thinks he's driving a tank.

Sheila M

29th April 2007, 21:25

I for one hope that someone representing the marshals at Rockingham or more generally has a letter published in the next Motoring News refuting the remarks.

The last I heard was that this matter was still under investigation. Therefore it will be treated as sub judice. Basically, it means that until the results of the investigation are known, the BMMC is unable to defend itself in the public domain.

What I fail to understand is why MN published the comments in the first place. Only a couple of weeks or so ago they did a four page spread about marshalling and how to get involved and how wonderful the marshals were!

Sheila M

29th April 2007, 21:29

If I was a marshal and was told by Neal to "F*** off" then I would have clobbered him.

I think you'll find that the marshal concerned DID "clobber" him - not physically, but in a report to the Clerk of the Course.

Can I add a big THANK YOU on behalf of all marshals everywhere for the support from some of the posters here.

seatfan

30th April 2007, 07:40

I am with thew marshalls on this. without them, there would be no racing, so Mr Neal really should be a little bit more careful - next time they might take soooo long to get his car out that it won't be ready for the next race.

Robinho

30th April 2007, 13:15

No Marshals = No racing

No TD = no big deal right now to be honest. if their toys are that precious maybe they should pack them back in the pram and lock them away in a garage somewhere

Maybe the Neal's need a little persepective. anything less than a public apology is not enough.

i can accept that anyone can lose their temper, especially after a fairly big shunt, and that those nearest wil bear the brunt, unfortunately this is often the marshalls, and i would presume part of what they are trained to deal with is irate drivers, but to carry on after the event is unacceptable

unsung hero

30th April 2007, 15:20

you'd get the wrong people to start with those who want breaks and things plus the only 2 circuits in the country that have live snatch licences are silverstone and donny all the rest have to do it under saftey cars but half the problem of this lies in t.v they don't think of marshals saftey on touring car weekends i've asked many a time for red flags at toca meetings so cars on first lap shunts can be removed properly and all you get is a saftey car but that still dosen't slow down and then you have the odd car that goes in the pits and goes round the track at full race speed to catch up the pack so if you took away t.v we could clear incidents alot better and safer us marshals are all profesional there are many grades and it takes years to reach fire grade or fire tender snatch grade and sometimes under pressure i.e t.v you have to rush thats when cars get damaged even by recovery units on full lifts and when they tow cars back to the paddock and alot of recovery drivers are paid help

MadCat

30th April 2007, 17:28

In my opinion marshalls are the unsung heroes of motorsport in general. I think people like the Neal's would soon be quick enough to complain (not that they dont anyway) when a race they're in is cancelled due to lack of marshals.

I marshal regularly on rallies and the amount of abuse (used loosely) we receive from a small minority of crews is unacceptable .. considering we have the power to report them straight to the CoC or event official as soon as we like. I hope both Matt and Steve Neal apologise to the marshal (or marshals) he told to f*** off publicly as behaviour like this puts marshalls off, i've heard of a few marshalls who now refuse to marshal through abusive behaviour!

unsung hero

1st May 2007, 06:48

there has been a few incidents in my 13 years track marshaling that have been reported and no action taken or reports getting lost and when i think about those meetings especially one were i was seconds from being killed by a now well known driver who after three laps under waved yellows at our corner he still came of and as a result i have a dislodged knee cap and that meeting again was a toca meeting were they wouldn,t give me a red flag as i had 2 cars in dangerous places it sucks sometimes. He was reported but no action was taken and 3 years on after repeated letters to him and his p.r still no apollogy to me or the other driver he nearly killed. but they still give us greef if they come off but if we all stood down one day they would all be in the **** no racing and no club would be able to afford to pay 100 - 500 marshals per weekend at minimum it would cost £50 per marshall per day some meetings are 3 dayers plus. maybe all circuits should get snatch licences and have recovery land rovers with fire equipment and a rear mounted lift system like they have on recovery trucks so we can at least lift the front or rear of the car up.

BeeJ_UK

1st May 2007, 16:57

I was also in orange at Rockingham on turn 3. The 1st thing I think about the article is that TD do not know the difference between marshals, the ones in orange and the recovery/safety crews who at Rockingham were wearing white and black. And as already said both crews ultimately take instructions from race control.

After the comments that have been made I am seriously thinking of removing myself from the rest of the BTCC events I have volunteered for this season and not volunteering again for BTCC events.

Rusty

1st May 2007, 17:13

I was also in orange at Rockingham on turn 3. The 1st thing I think about the article is that TD do not know the difference between marshals, the ones in orange and the recovery/safety crews who at Rockingham were wearing white and black. And as already said both crews ultimately take instructions from race control.

After the comments that have been made I am seriously thinking of removing myself from the rest of the BTCC events I have volunteered for this season and not volunteering again for BTCC events.

Well said BeeJ why should you volunteer and take abuse off idiots like the Neals or any other driver that should happen to land in front of you on your post you risk your lifes doing what you do just for the love of Motorsport....

MG2004

1st May 2007, 17:37

I was just wondering if there were any groups left in BTCC that the Neal's haven't p'd off over the past few seasons? They've done the other teams/drivers, most of the fans, now they've turned on the marshals.

Who's left? Perhaps they'll come out with some arrogant remarks about the commentators at Thruxton?

BDunnell

1st May 2007, 18:43

reidy_fan

1st May 2007, 20:31

give them time... if something goes pear shaped at Thruxton it will be the bloke that fried his brekkie's fault

Beej dont leave the BTCC because of the squeal family there is still a lot of good guys out there, dont forget we have a new "peoples champion" with Mat Jackson

Winchester

1st May 2007, 23:12

If you click this link - http://mattneal.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=465 - he has put his side of the story.
I don't know who the journo in question was who has upset him - I haven't seen the post-Rock MN. Any ideas people?
As for me, I'm staying well out of this debate! I think enough has already been said...

bt52b

1st May 2007, 23:33

taffy

2nd May 2007, 11:07

Just read Matts version of events at Rockingham via btcc.net forum..

http://mattneal.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=465

BeansBeansBeans

2nd May 2007, 12:03

It's good to see both sides of the story. I do think he was over-egging it with the bit about going off to see sick kids because Seat didn't have time. Perhaps he should wear a halo.

taffy

2nd May 2007, 12:25

Got to agree with that.. Maybe trying for the sympathy vote....

BDunnell

2nd May 2007, 12:52

It's good to see both sides of the story. I do think he was over-egging it with the bit about going off to see sick kids because Seat didn't have time. Perhaps he should wear a halo.

I agree. Plus, I suspect that that description is only one side of that particular story.

PapaJuliet

2nd May 2007, 20:14

I was also in orange at Rockingham on turn 3. The 1st thing I think about the article is that TD do not know the difference between marshals, the ones in orange and the recovery/safety crews who at Rockingham were wearing white and black.

Sigh, this old thing again. I don't know where the suggestion that the Rockingham Safety Crew are not marshals came from but this is the third forum I have read it on. The Safety Team, like any rescue crew, are experienced and qualified marshals. Just because somebody doesn't wear orange doesn't mean they are not a marshal.

The recovery crews may not be marshals but, as far as I am aware, are brought in from professional vehicle recovery companies so probably have much more experience in recovering cars without damage than many marshals.

Also, forgive me if I am wrong here, but you seem to be implying that it is OK to have a go at the recovery guys and safety crew but not to have a go at "standard" marshals?

And as already said both crews ultimately take instructions from race control.

This is a very good point. Add in the pressure of a television schedule and it's hardly surprising that tensions have been raised.

Nick The Flick

2nd May 2007, 22:49

As a member of the orange brigade. You will find that marshals do everthing from
sprints to F1 with some doing up to 60+ days racing a year. Not just the 20 days that makes up BTCC. As for ELITE . We are professional ! (albeit unpaid) volunteers. I have 20 years of marshalling experience and I have 15 years of race rescue work. I have no idea where you would find anyone more qualified than us, the marshals who already cover BTCC events.

Have you ever thought that maybe I was talking about people like you as the elite, not just anyone. Actually, in my opinion, I think the problem is not the actual marshalls, but sometimes the drivers of the recovery trucks. Maybe that is what should be brought to each circuit intead?

Nick The Flick

2nd May 2007, 23:01

Just read the whole thread (I replied above before getting to the end) and I still stand by my above comment. It's more the "Joe's Garage" type bloke I think where the ego kicks in far more than a marshall.

I ddind't even know what a "live snatch" was either, let alone know that only two circuits had the required permit for it.

I have always thought that the speed of the "catch-up" cars under a safety car lap is out of order. Maybe it should be monitored with speed traps and if you are found to be travelling above a certain speed, you are penalized as soon as the safety car has pulled off. That way it would put you out of the race anyway. either that or disqualify that driver from the result.

unsung hero

3rd May 2007, 07:18

Hold on you keep forgetting the BOBS which i'm very proud to be there are a few of us that travel outside of the Silverstone Home of British Motorsport to other circuits. I still think that there should be a few quick response units of trained marshals or full time circuit staff who discuss at every meeting how teams would like there cars towed or lifted as from experiance its easier to pull a car forwards out of the gravel than pull it backwards but this is nit always easy as sometimes to achieve this you have to go track side and a lot of drivers under yellows don't slow down so we have to tow them backwards causing more damage or simply take away gravel traps and have run of areas like Silverstone but then you would lose a lot of veiwing points because you would be so far away from the track

Nick The Flick

3rd May 2007, 08:12

bt52b

3rd May 2007, 12:26

Just read Matts version of events at Rockingham via btcc.net forum..

http://mattneal.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=465

The dig at Seat is probably the worst thing about this whole stupid incident. A blow too low :mad:

unsung hero

3rd May 2007, 13:06

Are black orange baxxxxsteds from silverstone we wear the black and orange overalls insead of all orange

BeeJ_UK

3rd May 2007, 13:57

Sigh, this old thing again. I don't know where the suggestion that the Rockingham Safety Crew are not marshals came from but this is the third forum I have read it on. The Safety Team, like any rescue crew, are experienced and qualified marshals. Just because somebody doesn't wear orange doesn't mean they are not a marshal.

The recovery crews may not be marshals but, as far as I am aware, are brought in from professional vehicle recovery companies so probably have much more experience in recovering cars without damage than many marshals.

Also, forgive me if I am wrong here, but you seem to be implying that it is OK to have a go at the recovery guys and safety crew but not to have a go at "standard" marshals?

This is a very good point. Add in the pressure of a television schedule and it's hardly surprising that tensions have been raised.

Please tell me where I said that it is OK to have a go at recovery but not at marshals, all I said was have a go at the right people. In the days of dwindleing marshal numbers it does not do recruitment any good at all having the motor sport press publish articles saying marshals can not do their job properly. In my view the Saftey team did the only thing they could do in the situation, do do a full lift in that position would most likely needed a red flag. I only mentioned the difference to highlight how pants the article was as TD could not tell the difference. I am sorry if I caused offence to the Safety Team that was not my intention as they do a very good job.

unsung hero

3rd May 2007, 14:10

they can be done under saftey car brands do it so do silverstone

3rd May 2007, 16:05

this maybe going a tad of the topic of this thread but has anyone else noticed that Neal's attitude has changed alot this year, and also in the last couple of years as well. In 2004 I was so happpy he was champion but last year he did a Rykard Rydell and played mr innocent to all the incidents that he was involved in even though he he usually gives it out as well as he is given. He also seemed so grumpy after rockingham as well.

PapaJuliet

3rd May 2007, 18:22

Please tell me where I said that it is OK to have a go at recovery but not at marshals, all I said was have a go at the right people.

You didn't say it but by pointing out the distinction you appeared to be implying it and it seemed to me to be an irrelevant point. But as I said, I'm sorry for misinterpreting you.

In the days of dwindleing marshal numbers it does not do recruitment any good at all having the motor sport press publish articles saying marshals can not do their job properly.

I TOTALLY agree. This whole saga has rather annoyed me, not only the original posted comments but the apparent demarkation between "us" (marshals) and "them" (recovery) and buck-passing by people who should have known better (not meaning you this time, comments on another forum) so maybe I read too much into your post.

In my view the Saftey team did the only thing they could do in the situation, do do a full lift in that position would most likely needed a red flag. I only mentioned the difference to highlight how pants the article was as TD could not tell the difference. I am sorry if I caused offence to the Safety Team that was not my intention as they do a very good job.

Thank you. I hope we see you back at Rockingham some time.

Hazell B

3rd May 2007, 20:27

Having just read the Matt Neal forum item that was linked here, I note he didn't once say the original journalist who broke the story lied. Funny that, he just said it was 'misleading' and added other things he'd said - never once mentioning it was untrue in any way.

And the bit about SEAT was a sad attempt at sympathy - it had nothing at all to do with marshals :mark: I'm sure the hour spent with children makes little difference to the marshal situation ;)