Is Mercedes fixing the 2016 driver chamionship

[Nitrodaze]

I think if you want to be politically correct you would say it is pure bad luck. You may also say it is unthinkable that Mercedes would give a win that is in the bag to rival Redbull with the aim of favoring Rosberg over Hamilton. But if you look at the statistics coldly, you have to say the statistics do not align with the politically correct view.

The cold facts are that Mercedes have the first pick of the engines before allocating engines to customer teams. And the engine in the Hamilton car was a new engine that has done only three races. Based on these facts, you would expect reliability issues to be with customer team as opposed to the Mercedes reigning world champion who you would expect to have the very best choice of the parts.

Also, this pattern seem to be similar to what happened in 2014. Would you believe that the Mercedes engine is crap enough to fail so frequently? That is very hard to believe. It then comes down to whether the engine is being fitted properly unto the car? Now that is very possible and conceivable. Then there is the question of whether it is due to driving style? Based on the pace of Hamilton when the failure occurred, it is looking very unlikely.

This situation begins to make one think, how would a team bring about a championship outcome of their choice against a stronger driver? If they have that aim, this would be just the way they would go about it. But there are questions like how really would they make an engine fail during the race without leaving a trace in any computer logs? You have to remember that a gearbox failure cheated Hamilton of his first championship title in his first season in 2007.

What do you think guys and gals, is Mercedes fixing the driver championship?

[Zico]

No, I don't think so... at least not in the reliability issue.

If they wanted to do it they would be a lot more clever and cute about it rather than tarnish the brands own image with a public perception of poor mechanical reliability.

[gm99]

If you watched the reaction on Merc' pitwall after Hamilton's failure today, I find it hard to believe that they orchestrated it. I find it even harder to believe Mercedes would sacrifice a sure win and an early victory in the constructor's championship.

[henners88]

I don't think they fixing it, it's just Lewis is getting all the bad luck this year. It's sad as he is clearly the better driver of the two, but that is motor racing.


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[Koz]

Lewis has always been kind of unlucky. Think back to the second half of 2012.

And that WTF in Brazil 2007.

[Nitrodaze]

If you watched the reaction on Merc' pitwall after Hamilton's failure today, I find it hard to believe that they orchestrated it. I find it even harder to believe Mercedes would sacrifice a sure win and an early victory in the constructor's championship.

Reactions can be faked. We have to look for more tangible indication l think. Bad luck is not a plausible explanation. This sort of thing always have a reason. And a dodgy Mercedes engine is definitely not the reason; as no one would believe that.
That said, Petronas would certainly not be thrilled with a Redbull one two in their home race.

[donKey jote]

Boo hoo.

[Stan Reid]

I've long wondered if Merc was giving Hamilton the engine that tested best on the dyno. The engine putting out the most power usually doesn't last as long so maybe Lewis should wring out his crying towel.

[gm99]

Reactions can be faked. We have to look for more tangible indication l think. Bad luck is not a plausible explanation. This sort of thing always have a reason. And a dodgy Mercedes engine is definitely not the reason; as no one would believe that.


Well, then maybe it's Lewis' driving that is not conducive to the Mercedes engine's longevity. I don't have any proof of that, of course, but it's as likely an explanation as Mercedes sabotaging their own driver/car.

[The Black Knight]

I don't think they fixing it, it's just Lewis is getting all the bad luck this year. It's sad as he is clearly the better driver of the two, but that is motor racing.


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Normally I would be of the same opinion but it has all gone too far now and something doesn't add up! No one can have 100% of the bad luck like he has had and 7 other drivers on the grid have no failures. It has gone beyond the realms of pure chance now.

Any time there is a mistake to be made it is with Lewis they make it. There comes a point where you have to put aside how idiotic it would be for a team to sabotage a driver so publicly and actually see it for what it is.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

I have to eliminate that this is down to bad luck because by the laws of probability he can't be that unlucky. It's impossible. So the likely probability here is that someone is somehow sabotaging him. It may not be a team wide directive but it may be someone's because it's the only real possibility left.

[Stan Reid]

Honda was the only supplier that got all its engines to the finish line.

Giving one driver the engine that tests best on the dyno isn't sabotage.

[gm99]

I would love to take further part in this discussion, but I have an Elvis concert to attend. Colin Chapman is coming, too :)

[The Black Knight]

Honda was the only supplier that got all its engines to the finish line.

Giving one driver the engine that tests best on the dyno isn't sabotage.

The only person that mentioned the dyno is you and there is nothing to back up what you're saying. Can you explain what you are actually on about?

[BigWorm]

Every team wants both their cars to finish a race, engines cost very much and I doubt teams like to discard one engine anyhow. Lewis is just unfortunate this year, he's one of the best in history but he still needs luck to be champion. Everyone need luck for that. Rosberg is not as fast as Hamilton, but he's in the same type of car and he has got luck this year so that's most likely to be the difference this year.

[TMorel]

Where's Nigel Stepney and Nelsinho Piquet when you need them.

[yodasarmpit]

I honestly think it is ridiculous to suggest Mercedes would intentionally scupper one of their cars, regardless of who the management would prefer to win they are a car manufacturer who value greatly their brand image. Engines blowing up does not bolster their brand image.

Lewis has experienced a series of bad luck, nothing more nothing less.


The question should be, following Hamilton's comments - could they potentially equate to gross misconduct and warrant his sacking if Mercedes so wish.

[Zico]

The question should be, following Hamilton's comments - could they potentially equate to gross misconduct and warrant his sacking if Mercedes so wish.


No, because Hamilton later 'clarified' what he meant..


Hamilton instead pointed to his strong religious beliefs.

"A higher power," he said. "It feels right now as if the man above or a higher power is intervening a little bit. But I feel I have been blessed with so many opportunities. So I have to be grateful for those. While this does not feel great, I have to remain grateful."



Good get out, he's learning! :)

[Stan Reid]

The only person that mentioned the dyno is you and there is nothing to back up what you're saying. Can you explain what you are actually on about?

What am I on about? I'm here to discuss the topic of the thread-how about you? Engines with the most power (because they are under more stress) don't tend to last as long-how's that for a backup? And, I post my thoughts under my real name.

[Mia 01]

Lewis has no golden rihgt to be WDC every year, first it was Mc Laren and now it is Mercedes who sabotaging his right to the divine medal.

Grow up!

[The Black Knight]

I honestly think it is ridiculous to suggest Mercedes would intentionally scupper one of their cars, regardless of who the management would prefer to win they are a car manufacturer who value greatly their brand image. Engines blowing up does not bolster their brand image.

Lewis has experienced a series of bad luck, nothing more nothing less.


The question should be, following Hamilton's comments - could they potentially equate to gross misconduct and warrant his sacking if Mercedes so wish.

Hardly, he wasn't speaking of the team, he was speaking of a higher power as such, which is utter nonsense. The only thing preventing him from winning the championship is his team. I don't believe there is a conspiracy against Hamilton but it may be, although however unlikely it may seem, that someone on his team doesn't want him to win the championship and wants a German WDC. To me, this is a far more likely probability than Hamilton getting struck by lightning repeatedly time and time again.

Anyway, there is 5 races left and Hamilton can easily turn around a 23 point advantage in those races. All it takes is once bad race for Nico. I believe that Hamilton can win the championship still but only if his car holds together. A 23 point deficit in 5 races isn't a lot. If Nico retires in Japan, Lewis leads by 2 points so all is not lost yet.

Saying that, if Nico wins the WDC I wouldn't begrudge him it. I think he is a fantastic driver worthy of at least one WDC. And, although reliability would play a part in it, at least he didn't cheat this year - he didn't have to.

[AndyL]

I honestly think it is ridiculous to suggest Mercedes would intentionally scupper one of their cars, regardless of who the management would prefer to win they are a car manufacturer who value greatly their brand image. Engines blowing up does not bolster their brand image.

Agreed, even if Mercedes did want to hamper Hamilton, there's no way they'd do it in a way that's so spectacularly embarassing for the company.

I think Hamilton just intrinsically has bad luck. Remember back in the McLaren days, how people were constantly saying the only reason Button was close to Hamilton was that Hamilton was getting so much bad luck. It's probably his greatest weakness as a driver. Maybe he dropped a mirror on a black cat or was the victim of a gypsy curse or something. If it carries on like this, Mercedes will probably start thinking about dropping him and hiring someone luckier.

[Nem14]

What do you think guys and gals, is Mercedes fixing the driver championship?No.
It's racing.
Engines, and other car components, are at operated at close to their design limits.

Lewis Hamilton is a juvenile like whiner, and of all the F1 driver's champions, the one I respect the least.
Hopefully, Lewis Hamilton will become an adult at some point in his life.

[Rollo]

There have been four failures of Mercedes engines due to heat stress in 2016; Hamilton's is but 1 of 4.

The thing that's stopping Hamilton from winning the 2016 championship is Lewis Hamilton.

Argue the Spanish GP now.

[henners88]

It's also worth mentioning here that Hamilton is a lot more valuable to the Mercedes brand in its market than Rosberg due to his image and appeal. I highly doubt Mercedes would sabotage his chances. It's just pure bad luck imo.


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[zako85]

And the engine in the Hamilton car was a new engine that has done only three races.

Only three races? ONLY? You gotta be joking. An engine that survived three races is already past half of its life.

[The Black Knight]

Only three races? ONLY? You gotta be joking. An engine that survived three races is already past half of its life.

Either way, as long as there are no more failures, he should be okay for the rest of the season.

[Jag_Warrior]

When I worked in the automotive supply business, I wouldn't have tried to explain defective products going to one customer or another as being down to luck. Trying that would have resulted in a customer enforced product quarantine action, and suggested that the process was (statistically) "out of control". In large lot manufacturing, there is a certain minimum process capability that is mandated, with an associated (predictable) defect rate. And if done correctly, failure modes (and their severity) can be ranked and predicted. Mercedes clearly has some quality control issues within its F1 operation. And while I don't believe that any higher power (whether it be Mercedes management or God) is responsible for Lewis' odd race weekend engine failures, I don't reject the possibility that something fishy could be happening within the Mercedes quality control processes. Not necessarily something nefarious, but certainly something that should not be happening. I have no doubt that Mercedes is asking some hard questions and doing a deep dive investigation as we speak. This looks bad on not just the F1 team, but the entire Mercedes brand. One of the reasons that I passed on the AMG CLA 45, and chose a different high performance sedan, is because I became aware of some quality issues with the highly stressed turbo 4 in the AMG. That is not a reputation that Mercedes wants to become widespread. At the end of the day, this is a marketing exercise for Mercedes - and Sunday's fireball was a PR disaster.

Anyway, in this case, Mercedes doesn't really do large lot manufacturing. It's more small batch or one-off. So the extrapolated parts per million defect rates and process capability measures may not be entirely accurate. But I have no doubt that they employ some of the most advanced manufacturing and inspection techniques (with no regard to cost - which makes the process very unique) on planet Earth. That one driver would be experiencing catastrophic failures, and not others, would make even a skeptic look at the manufacturing and quality control systems more closely.

[N4D13]

There have been four failures of Mercedes engines due to heat stress in 2016; Hamilton's is but 1 of 4.
This.

If there are 3 mechanical breakdowns on Mercedes cars in a season and both drivers have the same probability of issues occurring, there is a 12.5% chance that they affect exclusively Lewis, or one out of eight. That is certainly not what you would call a slim chance.

[The Black Knight]

This.

If there are 3 mechanical breakdowns on Mercedes cars in a season and both drivers have the same probability of issues occurring, there is a 12.5% chance that they affect exclusively Lewis, or one out of eight. That is certainly not what you would call a slim chance.

To list Lewis's failures:

An ERS failure at the start of qualifying in China, relegating him to 22nd on the grid. He finished seventh.
An ERS failure during Q3 in Russia, restricting the Mercedes driver to 10th on the grid. He finished second.
An engine mode issue during the European GP. He finished fifth having started in 10th following a crash in qualifying.
A hydraulics fault during Practice Two in Singapore which was cited as a critical factor in his defeat to Rosberg. He finished third.
An engine blow-out in Malaysia which cost him an almost-certain victory.

So, on the overall, he has at least 40 points, potentially more, which is quite a huge net different to Nico. Nico, on the other hand, has only lost 3 points, at the British GP due to reliability that I can remember - I don't believe he has had any further reliability issues that cost him points. Nico has gained at least 30 points for these so really we're talking about a 50 point swing were it not for reliability. But that is motor racing and, in all my time watching F1, I can't remember the best driver in a dominant ever not winning the championship. Whether that happens this year or not remains to be seen.

[N4D13]

If you mention Hamilton's engine mode woes in Europe, it would be convenient to remind readers that Rosberg suffered the very same issue during the race. In fact, at least for Nico, it was not the first time that it occurred - (at least) so he's suffered at least two engine mode failures.

As for the hydraulics failure in Singapore, that is a fair point - but keep in mind that we don't know about every technical issue that affected either driver during practice, so we can't really draw any conclusions from that. I highly doubt that the team is interested in divulging all the technical issues that their cars suffer unless it's unavoidable.

Now for the math part: out of a total of six technical issues (one for Rosberg and a total of five for Hamilton), the probability that Lewis suffers five or six is 15.6% (B(6, 0.5)). If we choose to count also Rosberg's previous engine mode failure, we have five failures for Hamilton out of a total of seven: the probability of this or worse for Lewis would be 22.7% (B(7, 0.5)). So when you consider all the cases that you've mentioned, it turns out that it's even MORE likely that Lewis is getting the shortest straw.

[Nitrodaze]

To be frank, all drivers in at least the top three team plus Mclaren drivers obviously would easily win the driver championship with the Mercedes W07 car. Mercedes the car manufacturers do not need to use underhand tactics to have someone else other than Hamilton win the championship. However, such a statement does not exclude persons operating within the Mercedes F1 circle with their own personal agenda from attempting to bring about this outcome.

The problem with the current situation with Hamilton is, there is a pattern here that goes back to 2014. Hence it sort of makes it abit hard to accept the conclusion that it is just simply bad luck. In a pool of the same equipment, you would expect this sort of thing to have a random pattern across the equipments in the pool. When you begin to see concentration of anomaly mainly on one particular member in the pool, then statistically you would begin to think that it is not random enough for the incident to be classed as bad luck. It more plausibly begins to look like deterministic factors bringing about the concentration of the defect on the single equipment.

The Hamilton situation is an embarrassment for Mercedes, as their engine is blowing up on the car of the driver with the most international media appeal. Every media channel would have pictures, videos and commentary of the Mercedes engine blowing up and a string of engine problem bedogging the current world champion. Hence, it is real bad news for Mercedes whichever way you look at it.

That does not eliminate the fact that there may be something amis going on inside the Mercedes camp for reasons that does not take into consideration the effect on the Mercedes brand. The Mercedes F1 team may attempt to explain these incidents as bad luck, but they are increasing becoming quite unbelievable. Hence the pressure is on the team to find out what is amis and fix it. Because the next failure, which l feel is very likely to occur before the end of the season, would most likely be very damaging in a number of ways.

For a start many would have on the back of their mind that Mercedes have fixed the 2016 driver world championship outcome. This would not be good for Rosberg, as he would not get the respect that he deserves for winning the 2016 championship if he manages to pull it off. There always would be talk of Mercedes dodgy dealings that assisted him in beating Hamilton. Both of these things may not be the case, but people would think it.

[AndyL]

If there is a pattern, it seems to me it goes back further than 2014.

[Jag_Warrior]

Actually, according to a study done by F1 Fanatic, Hamilton has had the best reliability rate of any driver who has won the WDC. In their study, reliability was defined as a mechanical or technical failure, which led to a DNF during a race. It did not include things like engine or gearbox changes in pre-race sessions, which led to grid penalties.


It may come as some consolation to Hamilton to learn that he has had the most reliable cars during his career out of all of Formula One’s 32 world champions. Sunday’s DNF was the 11th time in his 183 starts so far that he has not been classified due to a technical problem. That’s a failure rate of just 6%. The driver with the next-lowest failure rate is Sebastian Vettel on 8.7%. The other three world champions on the grid are Fernando Alonso (10.1%), Jenson Button (11.3%) and Kimi Raikkonen (13%).

[Nitrodaze]

Mercedes has found that the big end of the piston rod is what failed and caused the explosion in Hamilton's car. That looks like a very hard thing to mess with but not entirely impossible. But it sort of puts paid to the conspiracy theory that Mercedes was fixing the driver championship. At least until another smart person on this forum come up with a fantastic reason to say otherwise.

Bad luck is more ugly when things seem a foregone conclusion. Lets hope that there are no more Mercedes engine failures, so that we can see a proper wheel to wheel fight for the championship through the rest of the season. That said, l am very sure Redbull will disagree with me on the reliability aspect aforementioned. It was great to see a Redbull one two at Malaysia.

I have to say Toto Wolff earned alot of my respect for how he has handled the situation. It would have been easier and expected for him and Mercedes to go on the defensive and openly admonish Hamilton for his antics. But they shared in his disappointment and empathized with the luckless world champion. A strange incident as this typically places the entire personnel of the team at the grand prix under the microscope. Hence, l have to say, Mercedes has demonstrated an exemplary control of the situation. Certainly something to learn from in ones everyday dealings. Restraint and a measured response is a perfect demonstration of sophistication and maturity. I raise my hat :-)

[AndyL]

Mercedes has found that the big end of the piston rod is what failed and caused the explosion in Hamilton's car. That looks like a very hard thing to mess with but not entirely impossible. But it sort of puts paid to the conspiracy theory that Mercedes was fixing the driver championship. At least until another smart person on this forum come up with a fantastic reason to say otherwise.

According to James Allen: "a big-end bearing failed, which came after the engine lost oil pressure as he went through the track’s final corner." So they're not really telling us the cause of the problem. With no lubrication, bearing failure is to be expected. But what caused the loss of oil pressure?

A little bit more from Autosport:

"As a precaution, Mercedes is introducing revised running parameters for the works team, as well as customers [...] Those parameters will include, but are not limited to, a different and more conservative oil specification."

[Bagwan]

Hamilton got it very wrong here .

Lewis called it something or someone against him , insinuating some underhandedness .
He then backtracked , explaining his outburst by saying he was being tested by a higher power .

But , given that Merc has explained (in part) the failure , and have said they have no explanation other than bad luck , they clearly do not believe the religious reasoning for the conspiratorial accusation .

To question the intelligence of anyone who would think about it having been sabotage should , I think , be read as a relatively direct statement to Lewis , himself .
Certainly , others would have come up with the thought by themselves , but when Hamilton , himself , came out with it , it was a fan on stupid flames when they had only just put out the car .

When the tough moment came , he threw them under the bus .
Bad time of the year to be doing this kind of thing .

[Bagwan]

Oh dear .
Melt down in the presser .

Lewis has proclaimed there will be no more news .
Bunnygate fallout .

[Tazio]

:stareup:If Nico goes on and wins this thing it will be interesting to see the many manifestations of the Boss' meltdown! :dork:

[Bagwan]

:stareup:If Nico goes on and wins this thing it will be interesting to see the many manifestations of the Boss' meltdown! :dork:

The first corner may be a desperate place tomorrow .

Will Merc get to celebrate the constructors championship ?
Maybe . Maybe not .

[Big Ben]

I think Mercedes should send this guy packing. Half of the grid could have won those titles in that car. They can easily manage without him. And I doubt people are buying Mercedes cars because of this moron.

[Tazio]

The first corner may be a desperate place tomorrow .

Will Merc get to celebrate the constructors championship ?
Maybe . Maybe not .

Dawg maybe we will see something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAGmI6SH3k
Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JknW7h8DS0s

I Doubt they will take each other out, but I also wouldn't be that surprised. God I'm glad their is a reason to keep watching ;)


I think Mercedes should send this guy packing. Half of the grid could have won those titles in that car. They can easily manage without him. And I doubt people are buying Mercedes cars because of this moron.

That's Entertainment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuoiAt_k-CE :D

[Stan Reid]

I think Mercedes should send this guy packing. Half of the grid could have won those titles in that car. They can easily manage without him. And I doubt people are buying Mercedes cars because of this moron.

Yes, Hamilton has had the easiest lift to the top of any driver in F1 history so he's the last guy who has any excuse to be cry baby. He's 31 now so maybe it's time he moved over to Indy, Nascar or endurance racing.

[Nitrodaze]

I think Mercedes should send this guy packing. Half of the grid could have won those titles in that car. They can easily manage without him. And I doubt people are buying Mercedes cars because of this moron.

Steady buddy, lets not call a three time F1 world champion a moron. If you choose to react this way, l am certain you would have reacted much worst than Hamilton did if you were in his position.

Bagwan, you are predictable as always.

[Nitrodaze]

Yes, Hamilton has had the easiest lift to the top of any driver in F1 history so he's the last guy who has any excuse to be cry baby. He's 31 now so maybe it's time he moved over to Indy, Nascar or endurance racing.

Wow, The easiest lift to the top you say, wow

We all said that when Vettel raked up four championship title in a row. There is nothing easy about winning a F1 title. If it was easy, Rosberg would have won one by now. He may do this year but it will not be easy.

[steveaki13]

Lewis is fixing this championship himself. Worrying about dampness and a shocking start. Now on the radio sounding beaten.

[Tazio]

Boss is in a heap 'o trouble!

[Zico]

I hear the glass still tinkle, someone's bottle crashed?

Nico will gain hugely from this mentally. Lewis has lost the psychological battle.. only luck can save his championship battle now.

[jas123f1]

No, I don't think so .

[airshifter]

If nothing else over the years, this forum has been consistent in those providing conspiracy theories! :laugh:

Lewis isn't having the greatest luck this year. Nico has finally put his head down and driven better. The combination has Nico leading the WDC.













Unless of course someone thinks the moon landings were faked. In that case, there are all kinds of other possible scenarios. :)

[Bagwan]

Bagwan, you are predictable as always.

No , you and Lewis are predictable .

I am consistent .

[jens]

Occasionally these kind of things have happened that one driver in a team gets a lion's share of technical problems. Also if you flip a coin, there is a mathematical chance that you only get either heads or tails for a while.

Rosberg hasn't had a car-related DNF so far this year yet. Maybe it is bound to happen? Or maybe not. I remember back in 2010 I was expecting all season long for Webber to have technical problems (while Vettel had several of these), but this never happened... lol.

[The Black Knight]

Yes, Hamilton has had the easiest lift to the top of any driver in F1 history so he's the last guy who has any excuse to be cry baby. He's 31 now so maybe it's time he moved over to Indy, Nascar or endurance racing.

There's not such thing as an easy lift to the top of F1. Every driver, no matter who it is, has endured years in the other Formula honing their craft, learning and busting their balls to get to F1, even pay drivers. Hamilton and his family started out broke and, unless Ron Dennis had spotted his talent, it may be that we would not have witnessed his skill and fantastic drive throughout the years.

An easy lift to the top is definitely not the case because there is no such thing.

[The Black Knight]

Boss is in a heap 'o trouble!

I think the Championship is Rosberg's now. I can't see Hamilton gaining back the points he needs unless Rosberg DNF's. And who could begrudge Nico the Championship with 9 race wins? I certainly couldn't. He has driven fantastically well this year and Hamilton can't just blame reliability either. It is also down to his bad starts. I think of his 7 pole positions, he has only been in the lead after the first lap in 2 of them. The amount of points he has lost through to his inability to get off the grid well has cost him nearly as much points as reliability. Both him and Rosberg have the same clutch, but Rosberg's starts have been far better than Hamilton's throughout the year so there is a way to get on top of it, it's just that Hamilton hasn't been able to. These subtle differences can be the difference between a WDC and not. Maybe if Hamilton spent a little more time with his engineers working on these issues he would be on top of it by now rather than flying all over the world and into Rihanna's pants between races.

[Nitrodaze]

Rosberg has the best chance ever since his 43 points lead at the start of the season. But you know what? There are still four races to go, anything is possible. The next two races would determine if the championship is irretrievably Rosberg's.

Hamilton has made too many mistakes in the midst of some very unusual bad lucks. He needed his A game at every races when his car was working well to keep his chances alive. So far, he has failed to maximize his rare opportunities. He may lose this title mainly due to car problems, but he has also not helped himself enough to get out of the rot.

That said, it is not over till the fat lady sings.

[Mifune]

I think if you want to be politically correct you would say it is pure bad luck. You may also say it is unthinkable that Mercedes would give a win that is in the bag to rival Redbull with the aim of favoring Rosberg over Hamilton. But if you look at the statistics coldly, you have to say the statistics do not align with the politically correct view.

The cold facts are that Mercedes have the first pick of the engines before allocating engines to customer teams. And the engine in the Hamilton car was a new engine that has done only three races. Based on these facts, you would expect reliability issues to be with customer team as opposed to the Mercedes reigning world champion who you would expect to have the very best choice of the parts.

Also, this pattern seem to be similar to what happened in 2014. Would you believe that the Mercedes engine is crap enough to fail so frequently? That is very hard to believe. It then comes down to whether the engine is being fitted properly unto the car? Now that is very possible and conceivable. Then there is the question of whether it is due to driving style? Based on the pace of Hamilton when the failure occurred, it is looking very unlikely.

This situation begins to make one think, how would a team bring about a championship outcome of their choice against a stronger driver? If they have that aim, this would be just the way they would go about it. But there are questions like how really would they make an engine fail during the race without leaving a trace in any computer logs? You have to remember that a gearbox failure cheated Hamilton of his first championship title in his first season in 2007.

What do you think guys and gals, is Mercedes fixing the driver championship?



Jesus.... no wonder this forums dead...
Congrats to Ioan, Garry, dj_bytedisaster et al for turning this place into a toilet and not even having the common decency to hang around and wallow in the offal.

[Bagwan]

Jesus.... no wonder this forums dead...
Congrats to Ioan, Garry, dj_bytedisaster et al for turning this place into a toilet and not even having the common decency to hang around and wallow in the offal.

Aren't you just the happy little fellow today ?

Perhaps you could contribute to the conversation rather than burn the whole idea .

[Bagwan]

Maybe the question should be : Is Mercedes fixing the clutch ?

What exactly is the deal with a clutch that is too difficult for the drivers to both master ?

[Mia 01]

True Bagwan, but the question should be how easy it should be. A tricky one.

[Bagwan]

True Bagwan, but the question should be how easy it should be. A tricky one.

Well , I guess it has spiced up the championship to a degree , having been a little harder for Lewis to master , it seems .

It has cost the team , and both drivers a lot of points .
And , it doesn't seem that any of the other teams are having such a tricky time of it , so it begs wonder just why they are so fragile on that account .

The only benefit I can see for the team is that it does , on occasion , separate the two of them for the race , but I can't imagine that being enough to drop the fixing of it down the priority list .

It's strange to see this still an issue so late in the year , especially .

[N4D13]

Even so, how many terrible starts have the Mercedes drivers had so far? I can only think of Italy and Japan, and the former was caused by overheating whereas the last one was a driver error. It doesn't really look like they have massive issues either.

I'd also challenge the point that Mercedes isn't having the same issues, as I can recall Ricciardo and Verstappen also losing quite a few places on starts, most notably when Max's poor start in Singapore caused Hülkenberg's accident. So it doesn't look like it's a Merc issue alone.

[Bagwan]

Even so, how many terrible starts have the Mercedes drivers had so far? I can only think of Italy and Japan, and the former was caused by overheating whereas the last one was a driver error. It doesn't really look like they have massive issues either.

I'd also challenge the point that Mercedes isn't having the same issues, as I can recall Ricciardo and Verstappen also losing quite a few places on starts, most notably when Max's poor start in Singapore caused Hülkenberg's accident. So it doesn't look like it's a Merc issue alone.

Both of them started poorly in Oz and Canada .
Then Lewis was slow off the line in Bahrain , and Rosberg went from 1st to 4th in Germany .
Hamilton bad in Italy and Japan .

Lots of bad starts actually , and none of the other Merc teams seem to have issues .

They say it's complex , and they can't fix it this year .

I'll assume you meant Red Bull in your second paragraph , and though I agree that they haven't been completely alone in poor starts , there aren't any other teams having such a torrid time of it like Merc .

I'd love to know , since they are acknowledging this Achilles heel , why they say it can't be fixed this year .


I just noticed a touch of irony in the title of the thread in regards to this .
Is Mercedes fixing it ?
Well , no . They say they can't .

Hardeehar .

[Starter]

I'd love to know , since they are acknowledging this Achilles heel , why they say it can't be fixed this year .
Because it'd embedded in the software and would require a major rewrite to fix?

[N4D13]

Both of them started poorly in Oz and Canada .
Then Lewis was slow off the line in Bahrain , and Rosberg went from 1st to 4th in Germany .
Hamilton bad in Italy and Japan .

Lots of bad starts actually , and none of the other Merc teams seem to have issues .
OK, but that's still 8 bad starts out of 34, so basically 1 out of 4 is going wrong. It's quite a bit, admittedly, but I don't think it's all that strange considering the rule changes from previous years. Besides, my honest impression is that other teams have also been getting similar issues, but they aren't noticed that much because they're not at the front of the field. For instance, if Hülkenberg loses a lot of positions at the start, nobody cares and most of us won't even notice.

[Bagwan]

Because it'd embedded in the software and would require a major rewrite to fix?

Do you mean that this is actually the case , or are you speculating ?

It does put us on the edge of our seats , but I guess one has to weigh the difference between the cost of the fix and the embarrassment of being swamped off the line .

[Bagwan]

OK, but that's still 8 bad starts out of 34, so basically 1 out of 4 is going wrong. It's quite a bit, admittedly, but I don't think it's all that strange considering the rule changes from previous years. Besides, my honest impression is that other teams have also been getting similar issues, but they aren't noticed that much because they're not at the front of the field. For instance, if Hülkenberg loses a lot of positions at the start, nobody cares and most of us won't even notice.

You're a little hard on the Hulk , but I get what you're saying .

They've said , though , that essentially , it was a mistake to have the clutch as complicated as it is .
Without help from the pits , as is now the rule , it has been very difficult for the drivers .
Given they admitted it's a problem , it may be that they've actually been doing a pretty good job , having only had 8 bad starts . It's hard to say .

To a degree , being ahead as they are , I guess the gains aren't worth it .
The bad starts will only be clearly recalled by the one who doesn't win the title .

[Mia 01]

Lewis only have to take one or two leafs out of Nicos book and then he will be fine.

[Bagwan]

Lewis only have to take one or two leafs out of Nicos book and then he will be fine.

To a degree , you're right , Mia , but I think he would be loath to admit that .
According to Nico and the team , though , even though he has his mouthy moments , Lewis is as focused as ever .

Nico might look calm , but he knows it ain't necessarily over . He's been saying , each time they ask about the championship , that he's only looking at it race by race .
I think this approach has helped him a lot .

[Starter]

Do you mean that this is actually the case , or are you speculating ?

It does put us on the edge of our seats , but I guess one has to weigh the difference between the cost of the fix and the embarrassment of being swamped off the line .
Sorry for the late reply, just back from vacation. Yes. speculating as Mercedes no longer copies me on all of their internal memos. ;)