How to make ERC a real stepping stone?

[Sulland]

What needs to be done with the ERC to make it a championship where becoming the European Champion means something, so they choose that instead of WRC2 or 3?

[janvanvurpa]

No expiration of homologation..
In other words open the eligibility to what the overwhelming per-centage of European drivers choose to drive when they have choice.....
Naturally I am thinking strictly literally..
The title "Champion" goes to a person.

Thus the car is secondary.

So rather than making a huge instant sampling bias by requiring only homoloated cars--cars intended to enrichen whoever has the deal on supplying Homologated cars and parts, thereby instantly pricing out most drivers and leaving only those with either rich daddies or daddies business connections, or their own compaies to plunder, open the car elegibility to anything in a normal ASN class..

Limiting things to 2wd and limiting travel to say 225mm might be good.

Then maybe a few Grupp H and F-cup guys could mix it up with the trustararians and Gentleman drivers out in the insanely expensive cars now.

A couple of years ago at Swedish Rally I saw in tn SM running together with--behind on what must have been roads with deep spår I saw Mats Jonsson in his Escort Cosworth setting times good for 4th, 5th, and 6th in WRC---in a car from 1997--but which the design goes back to at least 1982..
And it warmed my heart to see 2 guys in GpH Golf and one in limousine size Volvo 940 making SS times better than Rally Stupor Star Ken Block was making in what was basically the best car you could buy (and better and they give you the car, only)..the WRC Fiesta.


THAT ^ showed who can drive-- and who is worthy of giving credit and fighting to win titeln "European Chapignon"

[Simmi]

That idea might well weed out the best pure driving talent, but I'm not sure forcing a bigger divide between the ERC and the WRC would make it a better stepping stone to the top class.

[Mirek]

Limiting things to 2WD didn't work in every single attempt various ASNs tried. See British championship for example (similar experiments have been done here in CZ with lower tier series as well - also without success). Spectators are not interested in 2WD and sponsors are not intrested in series which are not interesting for spectators. Simple as that.

The thing is that ERC isn't a village championship. It's really expensive from it's nature - it means traveling through the entire Europe, staying there, driving long events etc. etc. I f You think You can attaract any significant number of drivers to ERC by allowing outdated homologations You are wrong. Nobody will dive those cars because people don't take part in expensive championship just to drive around. See why nobody keeps driving Punto S2000, why nobody was interested in Proton S2000. Those cars have been a lot cheaper than the top notch S2000 yet everybody keeps buying those expensive toys. The only and simple reason is that those toys are good. Why there are three drivers in the entire ERC driving Gr.N cars but twenty or so with R5/S2000? I don't even speak about 2WD championship which aside of JERC (which is outstanding) is just a joke with no interest at all.

It's not the cars what is bad in ERC. There was a looot of registered drivers, many with top cars available. The problems are in other things - media promotion is terrible and that's the core of everything.

The calendar while reduced (which was for sure great decision) is still logistically very difficult with many events on distant islands. That brings big differences in the competition level from one event to another. Sorry to say that but Acropolis this year was really bad for example. Also Cyprus with nonsential clash of rules between ERC and MERC is another problematic event.

While the mandatory registration certainly helped ERC it brought another strange phenomena which shall be avoided in the future - huge number of drivers paid the registration fee (3000 Euro) just to have better starting position on their home event. I think it can be solved by giving wild cards for local drivers who will drive only once. It may not be for free but certainly it shall not cost like the whole championship. The local specialists don't harm the series in any way, quite the opposite and it's nonsense to bring obstacles for them to take part.

There were big lapses in the rules and steward decisions. For example during Barum rally a lot of teams were fined or penalised for not having readable bar codes on their tyres. That is something what those teams can't in any way affect so where is the logic to give them penalties for that? Now imagine that a lot of such teams did the whole rally with one set of tyres and the FIA gave them on top a fine of 300 Euro for every single infrigement they found during the rally - even multiple fines (and later also time penalties) for having still the same four tyres on the car from start to finish! For some of them the fines meant a premature end of the season and I'm sure that such stupid decisions will bring the number of locals who enter the ERC field down for next edition. That's just wrong. FIA shall encourage the teams to take part, even those poor ones, not penalize them for trying to fight with low budget.

[Sulland]

So if you should propose 8 rallies, 4 gravel and 4 asfalt, that has a logic and cheap logistics for teams - what would they be Mirek?

Rallycross are combining some world rounds with the european championship, could that be an option, or will it drown in the WRC round?

[AndyRAC]

If the WRC and ERC had the same promoter they could work together - you could even rotate events from year to year between both series. As it is, RedBull promote WRC, and Eurosport promote the ERC - I'd say it's nigh on impossible to work together.

[Mirek]

So if you should propose 8 rallies, 4 gravel and 4 asfalt, that has a logic and cheap logistics for teams - what would they be Mirek?

Rallycross are combining some world rounds with the european championship, could that be an option, or will it drown in the WRC round?

I could write here some my dream series but for what? It doesn't work like that.

Combining WRC and ERC is bad idea. Nobody wants to be viewed as second-tier competitor and those who fight for victories don't want to compete in some 4th level joint event after WRC, WRC2 and WRC3...

[PLuto]

If the WRC and ERC had the same promoter they could work together - you could even rotate events from year to year between both series. As it is, RedBull promote WRC, and Eurosport promote the ERC - I'd say it's nigh on impossible to work together.

Absolutely no chance. As you can see, promoters has problems to "survive" one championship. I cannot imagine that there should be promoter who will take care about both together...

[N.O.T]

you cannot do this no matter what, simple reason is that rallying is not that popular like track sport, you have far less competitors and far less choices plus the format doesn't help much.

[markf8691]

I think an idea to try and help turn ERC around would be for Eurosport to link in with some of the national rally championships and maybe say contribute towards their champions being able to compete in ERC the following year e.g. you win the BRC in 2016 in R5 car, Eurosport will help fund a drive in ERC for 2017.

If they linked in with numerous national championships like this, they could have different champions competing against each other e.g. British champion competing against German champion against Czech champion make it seem like it's the best in Europe competing - all wanting to be in the ERC

Also Eurosport need to promote the events, more live coverage and better time slots.

Events - stick to where people can afford to go.

[Rally Power]

There's only place for one international manufacturers rally series.

Profiting from VW's participation, Todt manage to get a partial WRC revamp (yet not fully completed due to RB/MH slow working pace), putting a stop to IRC growing aspirations.

ERC's future it's linked on Eurosport ability to make a competitors friendly championship, directed to private teams, once it's hard to see manus directly involved in short term.

I know it has a totally different nature, but SRO Blancpain GT series came to mind when thinking about a top privateer motorsport series. Could Blancpain GT sucess be reproduce at rally level?

[PLuto]

I know it has a totally different nature, but SRO Blancpain GT series came to mind when thinking about a top privateer motorsport series. Could Blancpain GT sucess be reproduce at rally level?

I have never heard about Blancpain GT. Can you describe more, please?

[markf8691]

There's only place for one international manufacturers rally series.

Profiting from VW's participation, Todt manage to get a partial WRC revamp (yet not fully completed due to RB/MH slow working pace), putting a stop to IRC growing aspirations.

ERC's future it's linked on Eurosport ability to make a competitors friendly championship, directed to private teams, once it's hard to see manus directly involved in short term.

I know it has a totally different nature, but SRO Blancpain GT series came to mind when thinking about a top privateer motorsport series. Could Blancpain GT sucess be reproduce at rally level?

Well Blancpain GT series is supported by manufacturers - not necessary with factory teams (although WRT may as well be) but a lot of teams are factory supported in some way shape or form.

[Munkvy]

I have never heard about Blancpain GT. Can you describe more, please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blancpain_Endurance_Series

Helps when endurance racing can attract super car manufacturers though.

[Rally Power]

Blancpain GT series are the main european GT racing series, developed by Stephane Ratel Organization (some years ago also responsible for FIA GT World Championship). They are one step bellow WEC, using less developed GT cars (GT3 instead of GTE).

Like Mark noticed, manufactureurs aren't directly involved at the series, even if they effectively supports all major teams, but the series most noticeable feature it's their ability to attract amateurs drivers, enable them to participate alongside pros (drivers are classified according to their racing status).

Blancpain GT runs on 2 separate champs: Sprint, with 7 races, and Endurance, with 5. Endurance champ it's the most popular, taking place at charismatic circuits (Monza, Silverstone, Paul Ricard, Spa and Nurburgring).

Worldwide TV coverage, in lots of cable channels (one year I saw it via Bloomberg!) and also web live races.

http://www.blancpain-gt-series.com/
http://www.sro-motorsports.com/

Aspects that ERC could retain from Blancpain: limited number of events; events location/charisma; amateurs classes; TV/Net coverage.

[RAS007]

What needs to be done with the ERC to make it a championship where becoming the European Champion means something, so they choose that instead of WRC2 or 3?

This is the age-old question regarding the European Rally Championship. Many drivers have won the crown, and found it to be a road to nowhere. If you read the end of season reviews for the ERC in Rallycourse going back to the beginning of time, the same question you have posed has been asked, time and time again, with no answer.

[Grundo Farb]

So the original question is how to make it something that is a proper feeder series to the WRC?

The cars are secondary, the R5/S2000 group are affordable and accessible and will continue to improve in that area with Hyundai and probably Toyota in there soon so that's not the problem.

I think two things need to change:
1) Teams not drivers enter races
2) The best drivers from around the world are selected - not just from Europe

At the moment the rallying model is typically a driver needs to find a car and enter a series. Teams don't look around to find the best drivers typically. That means only ones with support from their home association/sponsor/daddies money get a car. They aren't the best drivers.

At the moment in the ERC the drivers are all European. Yes I know it is the ERC but if you want to encourage global talent to be found and fed in a series that is ultra competitive (and then watchable) then it needs to be a properly international series - with international drivers.

Look at Formula 3 in Britain or Germany, the drivers come from around the world. Domestic series but international drivers. What is currently the problem is the driver is not identified for Rallying but they must also bring a car. In these other series teams all competing in a series will shop around for the best driver, and then bring them into a competitive series to grow them (and to secure good results for the team). GP2 is another example, the team enters and the driver line up isn't finalised until the last minute.

Best example I can give of this is Hayden Paddon in 2011 won the PWRC in a Symtech Subaru. He found the team and the money. Then in 2013 he went to Ypres with Symtech again - a car preparer from Belgium in a Belgium rally. Why? Because they knew he was good, and they wanted to showcase their Fiesta S2000 to their market. He didn't disappoint being the only person to stop Loix winning all the stages on the first day. Don't get me wrong he would still have had to fund part of it but they also saw the value in putting him in the car.

So how do you get teams to enter and see it as a business? Money, from TV rights, from winning (and sponsors). Which goes back to the promotion of the events. Until the promoter provides a model where there is a financial incentive for a team to enter it will always remain a sport where only those with money can enter - which will not provide the best drivers.

[Rally Power]

After becoming (too) big, we tend to forget the way how successful enterprises have began...IRC started in 2006 with only 4 events and was meant to be a challenge for top privateers drivers in select and prestigious rallys.

Maybe it's time for Europsort to go back to IRC roots, turning ERC into a top privateer drivers/teams series, with some revamp measures like these:

- A contained calendar, with only 6 charismatic events.
- A new amateur category, for R5 and S2000 less ranked drivers, instead of obsolete GrN/ERC2.
- Championship teams allowed to get points from their two best drivers, instead of just one.
- Attractive season final prizes: a full ERC season for Junior champ and a full WRC2 season for ERC champ.
- TV power stage, at every rally.

[Mirek]

After becoming (too) big, we tend to forget the way how successful enterprises have began...IRC started in 2006 with only 4 events and was meant to be a challenge for top privateers drivers in select and prestigious rallys.

The first season was just an experimental one. Nothing more.


Maybe it's time for Europsort to go back to IRC roots, turning ERC into a top privateer drivers/teams series, with some revamp measures like these:

And what it is now when Škoda left?


- A contained calendar, with only 6 charismatic events.

Not economical for promoter.


- A new amateur category, for R5 and S2000 less ranked drivers, instead of obsolete GrN/ERC2.

How do You define amateur? Besides that there is already a privateer trophy and unlike works drivers they even get prize money. For example first privateer in finish of every particular rally gets 7000 Euro no matter how many works drivers are ahead of him.


- Championship teams allowed to get points from their two best drivers, instead of just one.

Team championship for two cars is contradicting the wish for privateer series. As no fans anyway care about team trophy in ERC I think that the best way would be to cancel such trophy at all.


- Attractive season final prizes: a full ERC season for Junior champ and a full WRC2 season for ERC champ.

That's very expensive and ERC in this moment and also close future can not make so much money itself to allow such prizes. As FIA is unable to prepare something like that in WRC we can't expect even half-efford in ERC. The Golden Stage on Cyprus which was closest to Your proposal was funded by the organization not by promoter. Combining ERC and WRC can not work since both series have different promoters. Why shall one invest money in the other? That makes no sense.


- TV power stage, at every rally.

I personally don't like powerstage concept at all as in my opinion it has nothing to do with the spirit of rallying but for sure some live action shall be a high priority of the promoter. In this moment they do very little to promote the series.

[Rally Power]

I hope Eurosport Events guys can be more open minded than you...

[Mirek]

You can hope for whatever You want. I'm just afraid that You will stay disappointed. Eurosport guys must ensure a profit for their shareholders and that's the base point of everything. It's not charity what they have been running.

[Jarek Z]

IRC started in 2006 with only 4 events and was meant to be a challenge for top privateers drivers in select and prestigious rallys.

What are you talking about? A challenge for privateers with rallies in Africa, Brazil, China and Russia and points awarded for manufacturers?

[Mirek]

Good point Jarek, the first IRC team ever was works FIAT.

[Sulland]

In 2016 ERC stand the chance of becoming as it used to be - not important.

British Rally Championship is taking in 4wd again, and has many of the elements that has been mentioned here as success factors.

~ Concentrated events. All on the Island
~ Nice rallies on two surfaces
~ Guess it will TV coverage
~ Free tyre choice (sponsor)
~ possibility to rent cars from local firms, less expences in logistics

What can be done with ERC to stay out of the walley of shadows?
Logically ERC should be a logical tier 2 series, in the part of the world with most money and drivers.

But if WRC2/3 can buy you a better product for aprox same sum of money, and BRC attacks from below - your playing ground becomes narrow.

So does ERC stand a chance as is, or at all?

[RS]

How did you work out WRC2 is a better product? I think it's probably more expensive too due to longer rallies.

It would be nice if BRC could become what it was back in the F2 era but the popularity of rallying in the UK has fallen so much i don't know if that is possible.

[AndyRAC]

You can hope for whatever You want. I'm just afraid that You will stay disappointed. Eurosport guys must ensure a profit for their shareholders and that's the base point of everything. It's not charity what they have been running.

I wonder why they even bid to be the ERC promoter. They've done very little. Like most promoters in Motorsport, they do as little as they can, while raking in the rights/ events money.
The current ERC is better than the old ERC, but is nowhere near what the IRC was.

[Mirek]

I wonder why they even bid to be the ERC promoter. They've done very little. Like most promoters in Motorsport, they do as little as they can, while raking in the rights/ events money.
The current ERC is better than the old ERC, but is nowhere near what the IRC was.

The IRC was run by the same promoter. Why is it different? Maybe because it's not only about the promoter but also the FIA. Anyway I don't agree that the old IRC was better. Yes, through several years it had awesome driver quality and some extremely good events with great TV coverage but it wasn't only like that. There were many downsides - very unequal quality of the events and of the entry fields, sometimes crazy simple rules (for some areas pretty much non existent), a lot of changes of the calendar during the season etc. The ERC hase better basis in terms of rules and calendar, the rest got worse mainly because WRC got better.

[Mirek]

In 2016 ERC stand the chance of becoming as it used to be - not important.

British Rally Championship is taking in 4wd again, and has many of the elements that has been mentioned here as success factors.

~ Concentrated events. All on the Island
~ Nice rallies on two surfaces
~ Guess it will TV coverage
~ Free tyre choice (sponsor)
~ possibility to rent cars from local firms, less expences in logistics

Is ERC that different?

All events of European championship are concentrated in Europe
Nice events on three surfaces
Some TV coverage
Free tyre choice
Possibility to rent cars from local firms

So all those points apply for ERC too.


What can be done with ERC to stay out of the walley of shadows?

If You want to bring back the golden IRC years You need to bring back manufacturers. Škoda dominance which led Peugeot to outsource their campaign through "private team" further led to the situation when there is no official manufacturer team at all. Only manufacturer teams bring the attention of the crowds. We can only hope that Hyundai or Opel will decide to win ERC. IF they do others will follow.


Logically ERC should be a logical tier 2 series, in the part of the world with most money and drivers.

And it is the tier 2 series. As such it shall concentrate on promoting the JERC (and it rightly does so).


But if WRC2/3 can buy you a better product for aprox same sum of money, and BRC attacks from below - your playing ground becomes narrow.

WRC2 is a lot more expensive than ERC. Its main advantage is that it is World Championship. The name means a lot plus if You want to drive WRC one day You need to get experience on WRC stages. You may be a God of ERC but You still need two or three seasons in WRC to get in. The way to WRC through ERC is simply too long.


So does ERC stand a chance as is, or at all?

A chance against what? ERC is no competition for WRC just as FIFA Euro is no competition to FIFA World Cup. It can become a competition to WRC only if the WRC is completely fucked up. That was nicely illustrated by those several years when WRC was down and IRC up. Once WRC got to the better shape IRC went down.

[AndyRAC]

Well from 2009-2011 the IRC was pretty good, not perfect; the 2013-2015 ERC hasn't come anywhere near. And I can't recall any Live coverage of any events. Eurosport are doing the bare minimum in regards to promotion. C+ Could do better??

[Mirek]

I agree with that part about the promotion but even when they run some live TV stages in IRC times it was mostly for the money of event organizers/countries than for their own. But yes, definitely they shall do more.

[Jarek Z]

Is ERC that different?

All events of European championship are concentrated in Europe


No, they are not. Both Acores and Canarias are far islands thousands of kilometres away form Europe. I think that is what Sulland meant.

[WUff1]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.

[JUF]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe. I count 5 ;). Which are these Rallies in the outskirts for you?

[WUff1]

All except Ypres, Barum and Raid Rzeszowski

[RS]

WRC2 is a lot more expensive than ERC. Its main advantage is that it is World Championship. The name means a lot plus if You want to drive WRC one day You need to get experience on WRC stages. You may be a God of ERC but You still need two or three seasons in WRC to get in. The way to WRC through ERC is simply too long.


Not sure whether 'best in second tier WRC competition' or best in Europe sounds better to be honest.

Mikelssen, Meeke and Neuville didn't have the 2-3 years you talk about, although the first two had some previous experience of WRC stages. On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

[Munkvy]

On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

Tanak. It was called SWRC, but he did it in 2011 and then for 2012 had a works WRC drive. But look how that turned out for him!

And Paddon did better in PWRC (champion) than he did in SWRC (4th) or WRC2 (only did 1 round). But I agree, experience of stages is rather important in rallying.

[Mirek]

Not sure whether 'best in second tier WRC competition' or best in Europe sounds better to be honest.

Mikelssen, Meeke and Neuville didn't have the 2-3 years you talk about, although the first two had some previous experience of WRC stages. On the other hand what WRC2 driver has progressed to a works drive? Paddon is maybe their biggest success story.

Come on, Meeke has been around since 2004 or so. He has done a lot of WRC events already in JWRC. You can't take him for a newcomer ten years later. Mikkelsen has had a lot of WRC starts already before he went to IRC and right now he finished the 4th post-IRC season (the first one was with VW Fabia S2000). Neuville did JERC in the same time as IRC (plus some single rounds of WRC in previous years) and now he finished his 4th complete WRC season.

Together these guys spent more then 15 seasons in WRC and they managed to win how many times? Each one of them once? They are good and they definitely benefited from being part of the IRC show in its strongest days but still they didn't come as something groundbraking to the WRC. Still we talk about times when they had to fight with those like Hänninen, Kopecký, Loix, Rossetti etc. but all of those guys left ERC...

[RS]

Come on, Meeke has been around since 2004 or so. He has done a lot of WRC events already in JWRC. You can't take him for a newcomer ten years later. Mikkelsen has had a lot of WRC starts already before he went to IRC and right now he finished the 4th post-IRC season (the first one was with VW Fabia S2000). Neuville did JERC in the same time as IRC (plus some single rounds of WRC in previous years) and now he finished his 4th complete WRC season.

Together these guys spent more then 15 seasons in WRC and they managed to win how many times? Each one of them once? They are good and they definitely benefited from being part of the IRC show in its strongest days but still they didn't come as something groundbraking to the WRC. Still we talk about times when they had to fight with those like Hänninen, Kopecký, Loix, Rossetti etc. but all of those guys left ERC...

My point is that I don't see a great body of evidence to suggest WRC2 is that much better for someone looking to get a WRC drive. Sure it is important to learn the events but how many WRC event winners has SWRC or WRC2 produced?

Regarding Meeke, not sure how relevant some JWRC events 11 years ago are to WRC now?

Fair point on Mikelssen and his year in the VW Fabia.

Neuville's WRC experience was quite minimal and he was already very good in only his second year in a World Rally Car.

[Munkvy]

My point is that I don't see a great body of evidence to suggest WRC2 is that much better for someone looking to get a WRC drive. Sure it is important to learn the events but how many WRC event winners has SWRC or WRC2 produced?

Regarding Meeke, not sure how relevant some JWRC events 11 years ago are to WRC now?

Fair point on Mikelssen and his year in the VW Fabia.

Neuville's WRC experience was quite minimal and he was already very good in only his second year in a World Rally Car.

Assuming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Championship-2 is accurate, one WRC2 event winner has also won a WRC event - Mikkelsen?

However in the last couple of years, how many people have won a rally that aren't named Seb or Jari that has not been gifted it by a VW failure? No one... So does going straight to WRC, doing WRC2 or IRC make a difference to your likelihood to being able to win? Stats would suggest no?

The only real way it seems to become a winner is to drive a VW or sabotage the VW's.

[Martins Tolks]

Except for 3 rallies all rallies are in the outskirts of Europe.

I agree and in same time not agree.

Yes, some events are quite far away (Acores and Canarias), in the same time, events in Baltics and Ireland , also Greece are not that far away.
Of course, for the name of European Championship, some events in France/Germany/GB should be added, but is there a possibility?
Guess, organizers from those countries are not so interested to host ERC event because of some reasons. And also, gravel rallies in central europe are extinct, aren't they?

[WUff1]

I agree and in same time not agree.

Yes, some events are quite far away (Acores and Canarias), in the same time, events in Baltics and Ireland , also Greece are not that far away.
Of course, for the name of European Championship, some events in France/Germany/GB should be added, but is there a possibility?
Guess, organizers from those countries are not so interested to host ERC event because of some reasons. And also, gravel rallies in central europe are extinct, aren't they?

Yes, but in this light I absolutely don´t understand skipping Valais again.

[Mirek]

Yes, but in this light I absolutely don´t understand skipping Valais again.

It was repeated numerously that the problem with Valais is on communication basis. The cooperation between the organizer and FIA/promoter doesn't work smoothly at all.

[dodge33cymru]

Then, on behalf of people interested in the event, in your championship, in rallying..... for heaven's sake make it work.

I know it's not 'that' simple, but communicating enough to be a 'reserve' event but not a 'full' one defies much belief, especially as it's an event that's been run so many times before, successfully.

[Rally Power]

Back to the thread.

IRC was an exceptional attempt to sort out a an alternative international rally series directed to manufacturers. It worked during WRC troubled years but since 2011, as FIA managed to get a decent WRC revamp, IRC was no more needed.

Today, ERC must be seen as a regional series directed to european drivers (pro and amateurs) and teams. Of course manus should continue to support top pro teams, but full works entries aren't reasonable any more.

In order to get top drivers and pro teams Eurosport just need to downscale ERC and promote it as the best regional series available, because ERC can be the perfect top rallying experience for wealthy amateurs or 2nd level pros, and the most convenient leverage for young drivers with a real ambition to get into WRC!

[Eli]

I think if they want more teams and not only privateers competing next year they should use the current WRC cars as the top class of ERC, as next year the WRC cars will be more powerfull. To my opinion it would draw much more attention, as this year we don't have Skoda or Peugeot as teams over in the ERC 'cause WRC2 is more important/interesting? anyhow that's my opinion, please feel free to disagree:)

[AndyRAC]

Watched the highlights last night, and I can't work out what the ERC is for. Some great events, great scenery, fantastic heli-shots - but the usual 30 min highlights late at night.

It could, and should be better - but what do you do with it? I still don't think Eurosport are doing enough - but that's to be expected really.

[markf8691]

Watched the highlights last night, and I can't work out what the ERC is for. Some great events, great scenery, fantastic heli-shots - but the usual 30 min highlights late at night.

It could, and should be better - but what do you do with it? I still don't think Eurosport are doing enough - but that's to be expected really.

They could do so much more with it. Just watched the highlights on UK Eurosport, on at 12.30am, hardly gonna capture a bigger audience this way. The U.K. Commentator is awful, Carlton Kirby, keeps pronouncing the names wrong. I really don't believe Eurosport care about it, which makes me wander why they became the promoters...

[OldF]

Michal Hrabanek told in latest issue of Motorsportmonday that there’s two reason why Skoda is WRC2 instead of ERC.

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=5861e3ed-ab6c-46e5-adc1-c8f504be4b1c (http://digital.motorsportmonday.com/launch.aspx?eid=5861e3ed-ab6c-46e5-adc1-c8f504be4b1c) (page 63)

1. Speeding up the development of the Fabia R5. WRC2 events are more demanding technologically than ERC.

2. No manufacturer championship in ERC.

[RS]

Michal Hrabanek told in latest issue of Motorsportmonday that there’s two reason why Skoda is WRC2 instead of ERC.

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=5861e3ed-ab6c-46e5-adc1-c8f504be4b1c (http://digital.motorsportmonday.com/launch.aspx?eid=5861e3ed-ab6c-46e5-adc1-c8f504be4b1c) (page 63)

1. Speeding up the development of the Fabia R5. WRC2 events are more demanding technologically than ERC.

2. No manufacturer championship in ERC.

Interesting information.

I had wondered about the manufacturers championship - not that there is much publicity for it in WRC2 but at least it's something Skoda can promote if they win.

Another interesting point against ERC is that there is no event in France, Italy or Germany (important markets for Skoda)

Other points from the interview - Kopecky, Lappi and Tidemand will get the same number of events in WRC2, and Hrabanek thinks Fabia is still on the same level as the Fiesta Evo.

Still, I am disappointed there is not a greater Skoda presence in ERC, at least with some satellite team. The publicity of winning events outright and better tv would be good for them.

[vino_93]

No one cares about rallying in France. Only Monte and Tour de Corse - since they are back in WRC- had small interest by the non-motorsport medias.

Fore sure, ERC in France would have no impact on the press. And I guess that's more or less the same in Germany ... maybe not in Italy ?
So I don't think that's one of the reason for Skoda withdrawal.

[Franky]

They could do so much more with it. Just watched the highlights on UK Eurosport, on at 12.30am, hardly gonna capture a bigger audience this way. The U.K. Commentator is awful, Carlton Kirby, keeps pronouncing the names wrong. I really don't believe Eurosport care about it, which makes me wander why they became the promoters...

Why are the broadcasts so late? I'll try to work back from the broadcast start time and you might get part of the answer.

12.30 am - Broadcast time
21.30 - File is uploaded/downloaded to the TV station server for ingestion, preferably not less than 3 hours before transmission
20.30 - Start of upload. Let's say file is 20GB and average upload speed is 10MB/s. Estimated upload time 35 minutes.
19.30 - Start of exporting the TV programme
18.37 - First car enters the evening service
17.35 - Start of the last stage

I haven't watched the programme yet and I do not know the exact workflow of the ERC TV programme production, so all the values are just estimations. But you can see that there really isn't much time between the beginning of video export and the start of the last stage.

Today the last service is in 2,5 hours earlier than yesterday and also the TV guide shows the Eurosport event review programme is 2 hours earlier than yesterday.

[RS]

No one cares about rallying in France. Only Monte and Tour de Corse - since they are back in WRC- had small interest by the non-motorsport medias.

Really? Even with Loeb, Ogier, Citroën, Peugeot, Camili...

[EightGear]

I think 'No one cares about rallying in France' still means there's a lot more interest there than in a lot of other countries.

[focus206]

Fore sure, ERC in France would have no impact on the press. And I guess that's more or less the same in Germany ... maybe not in Italy ?

In Italy not even the Italian WRC round has impact on the press, no chance for an ERC one...

[RS]

Reading these comments it seems as if nobody cares about rallying anywhere (apart from maybe Finland and Czech Republic)

[focus206]

Reading these comments it seems as if nobody cares about rallying anywhere (apart from maybe Finland and Czech Republic)

Well, all European countries have rally fans, but the non-specialistic press and the Average Joes don't care for sure... I guess that's what we mean when saying "nobody cares about rallying here"

[AndyRAC]

Reading these comments it seems as if nobody cares about rallying anywhere (apart from maybe Finland and Czech Republic)

Thats my impression. Certainly as far as the UK goes it's not great. Last weekend was a pretty quiet one for Motorsport; yet neither the BRC or WRC events made much impression on the popular Motorsport forums. F1, BTCC, Sportscars, bikes are all far more popular.

[tommeke_B]

Maybe we must question, what's wrong with rallying not being the most popular sport, and not most covered in newspaper? Also, could events (especially WRC ones) still handle much more spectators and keep it safe at the same time? Remember what happened in the 80s when rallying became too popular... Times have changed but I think the same still applies. In crowded events we can see it's often impossible to maintain the safety for spectators... Anyway I think rallying as a sport is too complex to be appealing to the general public. Rallying has a relatively small but very dedicated audience, there aren't so many sport disciplines that make so many people travel to see it live (be it inside a country or around the world). :)

[Lousada]

No one cares about rallying in France. Only Monte and Tour de Corse - since they are back in WRC- had small interest by the non-motorsport medias.

Fore sure, ERC in France would have no impact on the press. And I guess that's more or less the same in Germany ... maybe not in Italy ?


Precisely that should be the job of the promotor. The promotor should be doing everything to get the ERC in the various medias.
But okay, that would require a lot of work and the benefits only appear in a long time. Apparently that is not in Eurosports mind at the moment...

[Lousada]

Maybe we must question, what's wrong with rallying not being the most popular sport, and not most covered in newspaper? Also, could events (especially WRC ones) still handle much more spectators and keep it safe at the same time? Remember what happened in the 80s when rallying became too popular... Times have changed but I think the same still applies.
Sorry, but I think this is a ridiculous statement. Rallying exists solely because of spectator interest. On the one hand because the sport is heavily financed by sponsors and on the other hand because city councils only allow permits for rallies because of the public interest. I do not think many rallies would continue if spectators were banned.


Anyway I think rallying as a sport is too complex to be appealing to the general public. Rallying has a relatively small but very dedicated audience, there aren't so many sport disciplines that make so many people travel to see it live (be it inside a country or around the world). :)

It is a big mistake to think the 'general public' is stupid. They can understand rallying perfectly well, it is not that complicated after all. It is not about knowing about it, it is about caring about it. For example, I know of the existence of Volleyball, I know the basic rules, I know it is very popular, but I simply do not care about it so I won't follow it. Ultimately it is the promotors job to get people to start caring about rallying.

[Barreis]

Loeb's dominance destroyed sport. Who wants the same winner for nine years?! And now there's another one for three years...

[tommeke_B]

Sorry, but I think this is a ridiculous statement. Rallying exists solely because of spectator interest. On the one hand because the sport is heavily financed by sponsors and on the other hand because city councils only allow permits for rallies because of the public interest. I do not think many rallies would continue if spectators were banned.



It is a big mistake to think the 'general public' is stupid. They can understand rallying perfectly well, it is not that complicated after all. It is not about knowing about it, it is about caring about it. For example, I know of the existence of Volleyball, I know the basic rules, I know it is very popular, but I simply do not care about it so I won't follow it. Ultimately it is the promotors job to get people to start caring about rallying.

I'm not saying spectators should be banned, I'll never write that. Without spectators there wouldn't be any sport, for sure not on the level we have now. I do ask the question if organizers could handle much more spectators... ;) Maybe not a big issue for well organized events like Portugal (nowadays) or Finland, but for events like Monte Carlo and Poland it's a very different story.

The sport being too complex has nothing to do with people being not smart enough for it. It's just a sport that people don't have any feeling with. A sport like football, cycling or tennis is something that almost everybody has once done themselves (mostly for fun or at school etc), they can relate to it more. Practicing anything that comes close to rallying is pretty much illegal everywhere, now more than ever before... Also when you are watching on the stage you can enjoy the spectacle but you don't see who is leading. How many popular sports can you spectate without knowing who is winning the game? Then there are different classes who change every couple of years. Time penalties, Rally2, powerstage, many rules that are changing very often. Just admit that it's a more complex sport to follow than most other popular sports, especially for somebody who is new with it. Oh, and I didn't know volleyball is so popular. ;)

I love rallying, and spend almost all my holidays for it. And it would be nice to see and read more about it in the everyday news, and to see more effort/money being put in the sport from governments and sponsors, but I don't see the potential for it to become one of the most popular sports. And the promotors job... I don't think any promotor (Eurosport or RBMH) is doing a decent job at the moment. Eurosport was doing very well with IRC a few years ago but it seems like they forgot all of it... :(

[vino_93]

Really? Even with Loeb, Ogier, Citroën, Peugeot, Camili...

Yes really. Of course, people know Loeb and Citroën. I guess, they know Ogier ... but less than Loeb.
With the retirement of Loeb, rally has lost a lot of media attention. Therefore, when you were watching the news, you regularly have the result of Loeb - at least when he won or crashed, and he won a lot :)
But now, except the sport media who talked a bit - a little bit - of rallying, it came back to zero ground of media attention.

Don't forget that France isn't a motorsport country. There's more and more people who don't like cars - and it has a lot of media attention, so motorsports ...

But fortunately, there's still a lot of people who likes rallying. But it's a bit like motocross : strong community of fan, investing of lot of time in their passion, but with no global attention from the others. And with more and more difficulties to achieve it.

[Jarek Z]

It is a big mistake to think the 'general public' is stupid. They can understand rallying perfectly well, it is not that complicated after all.

No way! In my opinion you are completely wrong. Rallying is probably the most complicated sport that I know. Can you imagine - I have been following this sport for more than 20 years and now, in 2016, I don't understand the rules anymore!

I'll give you an example. In Rally Islas Canarias Polish driver Lukasz Habaj (Peugeot 208 R2) won the classification of ERC3. That should normally mean that he was the fastest driver in a front-wheel-driven car. But was he? I look at the results and see some FWD-cars in front of him! How is that possible? It's a Spanish driver in Honda Civic. Now I'm wondering, what car is it? Is it a group A car or a group N car? No idea. Is it a full R3 car (Honda Civic Type R R3)? No idea. Why was he faster than Habaj, but didn't win ERC3? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? The Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! How is it possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? He was classified in Spanish championship round only! Is that not idiotic? I look further up in the results and what do I see? A Spanish driver in Suzuki Swift Super 1600! He was faster than Habaj, has a FWD car, but didn't win ERC3. How is that possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? This Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! I look further up in the results and what do I find? A driver who was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! A driver who was competeing in the Spanish championship round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS SPANISH CHAMPIONSHIP ROUND! He was classified in Canarian championship round and he was driving a car that was prepared against the rules of the FIA! And I think he actually won the rally, but is not a winner! Can you even understand it?

Now try to explain it to someone outside of motorsport. I already have a headache.

[PLuto]

No way! In my opinion you are completely wrong. Rallying is probably the most complicated sport that I know. Can you imagine - I have been following this sport for more than 20 years and now, in 2016, I don't understand the rules anymore!

I'll give you an example. In Rally Islas Canarias Polish driver Lukasz Habaj (Peugeot 208 R2) won the classification of ERC3. That should normally mean that he was the fastest driver in a front-wheel-driven car. But was he? I look at the results and see some FWD-cars in front of him! How is that possible? It's a Spanish driver in Honda Civic. Now I'm wondering, what car is it? Is it a group A car or a group N car? No idea. Is it a full R3 car (Honda Civic Type R R3)? No idea. Why was he faster than Habaj, but didn't win ERC3? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? The Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! How is it possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? He was classified in Spanish championship round only! Is that not idiotic? I look further up in the results and what do I see? A Spanish driver in Suzuki Swift Super 1600! He was faster than Habaj, has a FWD car, but didn't win ERC3. How is that possible? I'm looking for an answer and what do I find? This Spanish driver was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! I look further up in the results and what do I find? A driver who was competeing in the ERC round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS ERC ROUND! A driver who was competeing in the Spanish championship round, but WASN'T CLASSIFIED IN THIS SPANISH CHAMPIONSHIP ROUND! He was classified in Canarian championship round and he was driving a car that was prepared against the rules of the FIA! And I think he actually won the rally, but is not a winner! Can you even understand it?

Now try to explain it to someone outside of motorsport. I already have a headache.

I understand your point of view, but small correction. Habaj won ERC3 category, which is not the same as to win in 2WD on the event. Winner of this event in 2WD was not your mentioned spanish driver with Honda, but Surhayen Pernía, Of course he was classified in ERC, he finished 9th overall and he received points into ERC. Of course, he didnt won ERC3 as he was not registered. Your mentioned driver with Swift S1600 was driving ONLY in national field, he was not doing ERC event, so he can be classified only in national championship...

[Jarek Z]

I understand your point of view, but small correction. Habaj won ERC3 category, which is not the same as to win in 2WD on the event. Winner of this event in 2WD was not your mentioned spanish driver with Honda, but Surhayen Pernía, Of course he was classified in ERC, he finished 9th overall and he received points into ERC. Of course, he didnt won ERC3 as he was not registered. Your mentioned driver with Swift S1600 was driving ONLY in national field, he was not doing ERC event, so he can be classified only in national championship...

Yes, you are right. And your post only confirms everything that I said above. Rallying is too complicated to be followed by a normal person.

[PLuto]

Yes, you are right. And your post only confirms everything that I said above. Rallying is too complicated to be followed by a normal person.

Like I wrote in my post, I understand your view and I completely agree. Rallying is in basic too complicated to understand and rules are making it also more difficult...

[sindroms]

Yes, you are right. And your post only confirms everything that I said above. Rallying is too complicated to be followed by a normal person.

As I always say to persons who are not so much in to rally - circuit races is like a pop-music where everybody understand everything. Rally is a classical music. You must learn to understand it.

[Francisco Veloso]

But they don't do much to make it steady and understable, do they?
I believe ERC's main problem is it is lacking a lineup of drivers fighting for it. How many regulars? How many of those are really competitive? ERC rallyes live upon the local drivers. But in order to be classified in ERC table charts they have to pay a substancial higher entrance fee than the one they would pay to enter the national or regional rally. A little bit of a contrasense, isn't it? And sometimes the cars are not elligible because they are built under national specifications which are different from one country to another.
ERC is today, more than a rally championship, a business and it is rulled as one.

[PLuto]

ERC and IRC was always build on local drivers. Also in golden era of IRC, there were only few regulars which were doing all events (and it was mainly because of manufacturers). This is how it is and this will never change. Rally world is different now and WRC championship is much stronger. There are some regulars doing more events in ERC and there are still nice fights on all events...

[Abarth]

Erc has got tough comp from BRC this year.
Much cheaper.

What will erc do?

[Mirek]

BRC isn't any kind of competition of ERC. It's national championship and no matter how good it is it's simply a diffrent playground.

Anyway I can see the only way to wake the ERC up by changing the promoter. It's obvious that Eurosport Events/Discovery isn't intrested in rallying anymore.

[Jarek Z]

Anyway I can see the only way to wake the ERC up by changing the promoter. It's obvious that Eurosport Events/Discovery isn't intrested in rallying anymore.

Is anybody else interested in rallying these days?

[AndyRAC]

Is anybody else interested in rallying these days?


Of course they are! But I do think there has been a 'drop off' in interest compared to 10-15-20 years ago. There's a whole raft of reasons why. But the top events do draw huge crowds....

As for the ERC - as Mirek has said, Eurosport/ Discovery don't seem interested. When was the last time there was live action??

If you want the ERC to be a stepping stone to the WRC, then you really need the same Promoter. Then they can work together to help both series; and if you must have rotation, then you could swap events between ERC/ WRC...if needed.

[Franky]

Well, RBMH isn't doing exactly excellent job either to take on both WRC and ERC

[PLuto]

If you want the ERC to be a stepping stone to the WRC, then you really need the same Promoter. Then they can work together to help both series; and if you must have rotation, then you could swap events between ERC/ WRC...if needed.

No chance. There is no promoter who can take care sufficiently about one championship. To be responsible for two different championships is nonsense...

[PLuto]

As for the ERC - as Mirek has said, Eurosport/ Discovery don't seem interested. When was the last time there was live action??

When manufacturers were involved in. And when there were more money on side of organisers. And to say the truth, lot of organisers dont want to have live stages...

[RS]

And to say the truth, lot of organisers dont want to have live stages...

Why not?

[stefanvv]

Why not?

Money?

[PLuto]

Money. If you want to have live, it costs some money. And sponsors are not interested in paying extra money for it. And on the other hand - lot of events needs spectators in service and stages. They are bringing them money (by tickets, selling programmes, goods etc), also sponsors are interested to see lot of spectators around the stages than "only in TV"...

[AndyRAC]

Money. If you want to have live, it costs some money. And sponsors are not interested in paying extra money for it. And on the other hand - lot of events needs spectators in service and stages. They are bringing them money (by tickets, selling programmes, goods etc), also sponsors are interested to see lot of spectators around the stages than "only in TV"...

That is seemingly the truth.
So there's no point in complaining about it - when organisers. sponsors aren't bothered about live TV. You get the sport you deserve....

Though I still think its the promoter who should provide the money for the TV, not the event organisers. Promoters do very little promoting....

[Rally Power]

Money. If you want to have live, it costs some money. And sponsors are not interested in paying extra money for it. And on the other hand - lot of events needs spectators in service and stages. They are bringing them money (by tickets, selling programmes, goods etc), also sponsors are interested to see lot of spectators around the stages than "only in TV"...

Gladly, in Açores there are spectators everywhere, in fact the whole Island stops to see the rally. Even so, Açores Rally organizers, alongside the national TV local center, broadcast live two stages on this year rally, plus the pre event street stage. None was showed on EuroSport channels. Probably the only cost for ES would be satellite time, a small fraction of the generous fee paid by Açores organizers; still ES chose to show snooker games or summer ski jumps…

[Luis Pacheco]

Azores needs more 300.000 euros for next year edition, organizers are saying.

An event that generated a return of EUR 14 million in the past 3 years I do not understand how they have difficulty in getting further money to complete the budget.

[Rally Power]

Azores needs more 300.000 euros for next year edition, organizers are saying.

They’ll get it, don’t worry. Açores Rally has become one of the most charismatic ERC events and local authorities are fully committed to it. That’s why organizers managed to extend their contract with Eurosport till 2019. What really matters now is too have ES doing a proper job promoting ERC; otherwise people will probably start to question the huge public funding value.

[AndyRAC]

So, what exactly do Eurosport? Very little it seems. Very little promotion, even less in regards to Live TV; just collecting 'hosting fees'.

[nafpaktos]

Maybe because they realised that their investment was total loss and didn't fulfil their expectations?why on earth should they abandon a profitable product?

[Sulland]

Compared to the old ERC, with many rallies and different coeffisients of importance and points, is ERC getting closer to being a real alternativ to WRC for talent moving up, and gentleman drivers having fun?

I feel it is becoming a good valuable series, that drivers like doing, and teams offer drivers to compete in.
You also see drivers that has been in WRC, but lost their factory seat, look to ERC to rebuild their career.

Any more adjustments ERC need to do, to be even better?

[PLuto]

Was speaking to someone recently who had been in the early stages of negotiation with ES about bringing a round of the European series to this part of the world a few years back. Money was the prime topic of conversation and by that I mean everything else wasnt really of interest to the promoter..

Everything now is primary about money. In WRC it is much worse...

[AndyRAC]

Was speaking to someone recently who had been in the early stages of negotiation with ES about bringing a round of the European series to this part of the world a few years back. Money was the prime topic of conversation and by that I mean everything else wasnt really of interest to the promoter..

If I remember, that was some kind of Rally Yorkshire - with backing from 'Welcome to Yorkshire'. It fell through, when the chance to host the 2014 Grand Depart came up.......I think they made the right decision - as much as it pains me as also a rally fan, as well as a cycling fan.

[PLuto]

If I remember, that was some kind of Rally Yorkshire - with backing from 'Welcome to Yorkshire'. It fell through, when the chance to host the 2014 Grand Depart came up.......I think they made the right decision - as much as it pains me as also a rally fan, as well as a cycling fan.

So it was in dates when Circuit of Ireland was in discussion to be part of ERC?

[lmmjvss]

Gladly, in Açores there are spectators everywhere, in fact the whole Island stops to see the rally. Even so, Açores Rally organizers, alongside the national TV local center, broadcast live two stages on this year rally, plus the pre event street stage.…

maybe erc could only run in these little islands and become something very classy and charming hehe
Ibiza, Isla de Man, Capri, Sao Miguel, Samos.... (plus Açores, Canarias, Cyprus, Sardegna....)

[Co-driven]

maybe erc could only run in these little islands and become something very classy and charming hehe
Ibiza, Isla de Man, Capri, Sao Miguel, Samos.... (plus Açores, Canarias, Cyprus, Sardegna....)

Classy and expensive 🤣🤣

[Sulland]

Yes lets keep it on the mainland, the islands cost more than it tastes.
keep it simple, keep cost down!

[Sulland]

This is my favorite thing about the european championship: You have a round in Italy and then the Italians kick some asses. Something I dont want to lose if the new promoter change something in erc rules as a whole cuz to me this is the point of erc. Having some full time drivers fighting the best in each country.

And this is also what some of us have said that WRC have lost after the top class cars became a special car, and no longer allowed in regional and national series.

This has always been the charm of Rally, that local drivers once a year can challenge the best drivers in equal machines, at least out of the box.

I see the world championship as a lost case, since they chose to go hybrid. And that the support classes get very little airtime.

We see that the quality of ERC and their teams and drivers have increased over the last few years. ERC has great potential, and need to get a system for events to swap btw being a WRC and ERC event, to get more variation for drivers.
Up and coming events need to qualify via ERC, to compete for a WRC slot.

RunningCosts in ERC need to be kept at a minimum, with good deals for tyres, fuel and so on via sponsors.
Same with fees to FIA, should be kept at a minimum, both for teams and drivers in the different championship classes.

And to make the job easier for drivers, when selling ERC as a product to their potential sponsors, the promotor need to give airtime to all classes from ERC1 to ERC4 and GT.
All classes need their own daily sumup program for drivers to shine and give their sponsors something to show their workforce and customers!

[PLuto]

What I sincerely hope is that the promoter uses it properly and not just an easy rotation tool to appease European organisers whilst it goes off chasing $$ from the highest bidders in the rest of the world.

There is the potential for the ERC to become quite a thing however it needs investment and not just be hidden behind yet another paywall otherwise that potential will be lost. The other thing that needs to happen is that it becomes a proper geographically spread ERC with at least one round in Scandinavia, yes there is still a strong Eastern European presence amongst the crews just now, however the current calendar favours them too much. Ok so it will possibly increase costs and potentially mean some of the Polish and Czech crews may drop out however a French round, a British/Irish round and one in Finland/Sweden would make it a worthy alternative to the WRC as a "stepping stone". Appreciate this year is shaped by Covid but am looking to 22 and beyond for something more inventive.

I dont think it is necessary to have at least one round in Scandinavia. There are races in Latvia and also Poland, which are very similar and not so fat away from Scandinavia. And mainly - scandinavian (and Baltic) drivers needs to leave their territory and try something different - slow gravel and tarmac. That is their biggest problem...

[Mirek]

Ok hear what you say however maybe the type of event as well as the location. A mix of slow and fast tar and gravel, not exact mirrors of WRC events but enough variety to show that drivers are adaptable rather than just specialists in one type of rally. I wouldnt want to go back to the co-efficient system however a bigger spread would be nice but not necessarily more costly if the series had proper backing. Have seen it in the Canary Islands where ferries have been heavily subsidised or even made free for competitors and its incentives like that which may help grease the wheels. Just a hope as tbh have enjoyed the ERC battles as much if mot more than the WRC in recent times

Adding more events would be very wrong after many years of hard work achieved the reduction to a sensible amount of them. Eight events is perfectly fine number for ERC. No competitor wants or needs more.

Regarding Scandinavia or other places. It's a deal of two sides. Where there is no serious interest from the organizers there is no point to try to organize something.

[focus206]

Organizers and drivers from France, Scandinavia or the British isles have rarely been interested in ERC, especially when one considers they're all big "rally nations". So it's not always easy to go to the places currently left untouched by the calendar.
To me an event in Belgium, Germany, Austria or Switzerland would be nice to have, but for the rest I don't see big problems in the calendar. Barum is definitely central Europe, not East. Both the Hungarian and the Polish rallies are central-east Europe, while Liepaja is not far from Scandinavia.

[tommeke_B]

The comeback of Ypres or Valais would be very nice indeed, but I think it's a choice of the organizers themselves as well. They left the ERC when it was in a slightly weaker form (as mentioned here too many events so many drivers skipped some). I bet they are now wondering if that was a smart thing to do...

The championship and calendar are great as it is right now. Only thing that's a pity is we are seeing 2 events in Portugal, but no Portugese drivers competing in ERC, while they have quite a few fast drivers... I know the same could be said for Belgium for many years. ;)