2016 Silly Season

[Sulland]

How will the factory teams look like in 16?

last I have read is;
VW as is
Lefebvre to Citroen
Meeke to Ford
Sordo out and Paddon in at Hyundai

Who if any will start the testing at Gazoo Toyota Team?

will we see any private teams in 16?

[EstWRC]

No way Meeke to Ford, Citroen or nothing to him.

[Simmi]

Along with the Citroen guys I think Sordo has to be the works driver under the most pressure right now. He really needs to put it on the podium next week I think.

I'm not sure we'll really see much change next year. Pretty much every contract is up going into 2017 so that is when the big moves will happen, if they do.

[AL14]

Most of movements will depend on Citroen's moves.

If they wll decide to stay in WRC they will find some young talent to make him be ready for next seasons, I don't know with who they will replace their drivers. Maybe Ostberg will stay because of no alternatives. At the end we are talking about the third placed man in overall ranking.

But I'm very curious about Lappi's future. Considering VW lineup will remain the same, will he stay in WRC2 another year waiting for his chance with VW? There will be a solid chance in VW for 2017? Will he resist to other manufacturers offers already for 2016? Maybe from finnish Toyota (but for sure others will make a call)?

[N.O.T]

we need gigigalli in this thread now... after his inside info for Meeke to VW and Ogier to citroen for 2015 he is a legend now.

[Mirek]

Most of movements will depend on Citroen's moves.

If they wll decide to stay in WRC they will find some young talent to make him be ready for next seasons, I don't know with who they will replace their drivers. Maybe Ostberg will stay because of no alternatives. At the end we are talking about the third placed man in overall ranking.

Already decided and confirmed by Matton. He also confirmed that driver line-up will be different than this year.


But I'm very curious about Lappi's future. Considering VW lineup will remain the same, will he stay in WRC2 another year waiting for his chance with VW? There will be a solid chance in VW for 2017? Will he resist to other manufacturers offers already for 2016? Maybe from finnish Toyota (but for sure others will make a call)?

Lappi already confirmed himself that he stays in Škoda for 2016. For me it means he already has VW contract for 2017.

[Simmi]

Already decided and confirmed by Matton. He also confirmed that driver line-up will be different than this year.

I think AL14 is referring to whether they stay on in 2017, as Matton has said that this will influence their driver decisions for next year.

[Rallyper]

Ostberg to stay in Citroen and Meeke somewhere else. Citroen needs to keep consistent driver. Maybe Loeb comeback?

[AL14]

Already decided and confirmed by Matton. He also confirmed that driver line-up will be different than this year.

As Simmi said I was referring about 2017.


Lappi already confirmed himself that he stays in Škoda for 2016. For me it means he already has VW contract for 2017.

I was aware of this but you'll never know in these cases... Of course if he has already a signed contract, it's the right move. But in my opinion it would be a good decision even without it.

[stefanvv]

How will the factory teams look like in 16?

last I have read is;
VW as is
Lefebvre to Citroen
Meeke to Ford
Sordo out and Paddon in at Hyundai

Who if any will start the testing at Gazoo Toyota Team?

will we see any private teams in 16?

may be Citroen aren't happy with Meeke atm, if so they would replace him with young talent, but only if they are committed for wrc it makes sense. Ford should be happy with Tanak & Evans. May be we'll see changes only @ Hyundai

[Mirek]

I think AL14 is referring to whether they stay on in 2017, as Matton has said that this will influence their driver decisions for next year.


As Simmi said I was referring about 2017.

Aha, ok. Anyway I think that Matton gave very strong hint that they are going to stay in WRC by saying that that their marketing studies show that nothing except F1 is even close to WRC in terms of worldwide popularity and that they are disappointed with WTCC.

[WUff1]

How will the factory teams look like in 16?

last I have read is;
VW as is
Lefebvre to Citroen
Meeke to Ford
Sordo out and Paddon in at Hyundai

Who if any will start the testing at Gazoo Toyota Team?

will we see any private teams in 16?

No way Lefebvre as a full works team driver considering his performance this year.

[itix]

No way Lefebvre as a full works team driver considering his performance this year.

Citroens main market is France and I believe they would like to see a french guy in "their" team. There is Quentin Gilbert that seem to go really well also, but he'd have to jump the middle step which would be risky. I don't think there is any proven talent for Citroen to take from unless Loeb decides to eat his own words and do a full season, so they'd either have to go with young talent or keep Crash Meeke... in which case I'd go with young talent. Probably same number of crashes but potential whereas Meeke is not impressing anyone but his die hard fans *sigh*. I had such hopes for Meeke... shame.

If I was wilson I'd be thoroughly disappointed with Evans. He has had two seasons now where he has done absolutely nothing in my opinion to earn a 2016 seat. His best ever results were due to other people crashing and he doesn't have even close to the speed to match the top even with the updated Fiesta. He has problems matching even the pace of Privateers like Kubica and Prokop

Also, I don't expect Sordo to get a full season (if any seat time at all) next year.

[Eli]

Also, I don't expect Sordo to get a full season (if any seat time at all) next year.

Sordo already has a contract for next season (all season long) with Hyundai

[tommeke_B]

Sordo already has a contract for next season (all season long) with Hyundai

If both Neuville and Paddon stay, I think we'll see what that contract is worth... ;)

[itix]

Sordo already has a contract for next season (all season long) with Hyundai

Didn't know that... well, like Tommeke_B says, if there is fresh talent snapping at his heels I'm sure there is a buy-out clause somewhere. I'd agree that Paddon will probably be moved to a permanent nominated position next year.

I'm curious to what Msport will do. My guess is either Meeke or some young talent. If Tidemand or Lappi aren't staying at Skoda I think Msport will probably try to snatch either one of them. I would!

[AL14]

No way Lefebvre as a full works team driver considering his performance this year.

He seemed to be the new Loeb, now I'm afraid he will become the new Chardonnet.
Let's give him more time, but yes, his start was not impressive.

[EightGear]

Evans' pace on tarmac is better than on gravel, but I agree he will need to start showing some more speed now. Germany may be a good opportunity.

[Simmi]

Have to admit I'd forgotten about Sordo having a deal in his back pocket.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116608

As others have said it doesn't seem like he's been guaranteed full seasons or anything like that. Out of all the guys they ran in 2014 there weren't exactly many stand-out candidates.

If I had to guess I'd say it will be Thierry and Paddon next year in the works cars and then Dani/Abbring splitting time in the N car?

With Citroen I think Loeb will possibly come back for 2-3 rallies. If they re-commit then I'd expect they'd want Seb to help them with testing the new car.

[Duvel]

Have to admit I'd forgotten about Sordo having a deal in his back pocket.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116608

As others have said it doesn't seem like he's been guaranteed full seasons or anything like that. Out of all the guys they ran in 2014 there weren't exactly many stand-out candidates.

If I had to guess I'd say it will be Thierry and Paddon next year in the works cars and then Dani/Abbring splitting time in the N car?

With Citroen I think Loeb will possibly come back for 2-3 rallies. If they re-commit then I'd expect they'd want Seb to help them with testing the new car.


I hope loeb is willing to do a full season, if DS decide to continue after 2016 they should run a 3th car for a young talent, alternating whit Khalid.
For Hyundai i also think Sordo And Paddon wil change places, And Sordo will share N car whit Abring.
Msport than, i hope for a change there, but dont think it will happen. Wilson is very Evans minded. Ott, does have pottential but hasen't shown enough speed in my opinion. Tidemand or Meeke would be great.
VW stays the same, in 2017 i also think we will see Latvalla at Toyota, and lappi in the Polo.

[itix]

I hope loeb is willing to do a full season, if DS decide to continue after 2016 they should run a 3th car for a young talent, alternating whit Khalid.
For Hyundai i also think Sordo And Paddon wil change places, And Sordo will share N car whit Abring.
Msport than, i hope for a change there, but dont think it will happen. Wilson is very Evans minded. Ott, does have pottential but hasen't shown enough speed in my opinion. Tidemand or Meeke would be great.
VW stays the same, in 2017 i also think we will see Latvalla at Toyota, and lappi in the Polo.

I also think latvala might go to Toyota in 2017. With Mäkkinen in charge and base in Finland, he might feel more at home there than in VW. I really do hope Citroen continue past 2016. It would be a big shame losing them.

[Simmi]

I hope loeb is willing to do a full season

All indications from Matton seem to be that he isn't.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Loeb end up in Formula E in 2017.

[AL14]

I think Loeb misses WRC but he will not come back because he will lose against Ogier and ruin everything.
Never thought of Formula E. I think it is a very good guess.

Lappi in VW and Latvala to Toyota in 2017 would be good for everyone. Apart from Latvala if Toyota won't be competitive.

[EstWRC]

Tidemand or Lappi to M-sport with Tänak, yes, but with Evans, no. At the moment for me Tänak and Meeke are the only ones who can trouble the VW's on pure pace but they are also the ones who have the darkest future at the moment, especially Meeke, Tänak not so much.

All in all i think the line-ups will be basically same next year.

[Simmi]

Does Tanak bring any money with him at all for that M-Sport drive?

I'm just wondering if it ever does come down to a Meeke vs Tanak situation, whether that will be a consideration?

[itix]

Tidemand or Lappi to M-sport with Tänak, yes, but with Evans, no. At the moment for me Tänak and Meeke are the only ones who can trouble the VW's on pure pace but they are also the ones who have the darkest future at the moment, especially Meeke, Tänak not so much.

All in all i think the line-ups will be basically same next year.
You are forgetting Kubica on Tarmac (of he could just get the experience he needs) and Paddon on gravel.

But yeah, largely I agree with you. Meeke is like Kubica, only he has the experience so he has nothing to blame.

[Barreis]

After 9 won championships why to make a comeback for a full season? To be beaten by Ogier?! Also is it clever for citroen to be number 2 in WRC when they can be number 1 in WTCC? Also Matton choose drivers as guy who wants to be second...

[EstWRC]

Does Tanak bring any money with him at all for that M-Sport drive?

I'm just wondering if it ever does come down to a Meeke vs Tanak situation, whether that will be a consideration?

as far as i know the couple of sponsors what Tänak has got pay his test drives and thats it, He and Raigo dont get any salary from M-sport, confirmed by Raigo couple of a weeks ago in estonian newspaper. Basically they are driving for free.

[SubaruNorway]

After 9 won championships why to make a comeback for a full season? To be beaten by Ogier?! Also is it clever for citroen to be number 2 in WRC when they can be number 1 in WTCC? Also Matton choose drivers as guy who wants to be second...

But "nobody" knows about their wins in WTCC, just look at the youtube views difference in their WRC and WTCC video's.

[MJW]

as far as i know the couple of sponsors what Tänak has got pay his test drivers and thats it, He and Raigo dont get any salary from M-sport, confirmed by Raigo couple of a weeks ago in estonian newspaper. Basically they are driving for free. neither Elfyn or Ott get paid. Elfyn also works (long hours) at M-Sport whilst others concentrate on being drivers only.

[RAS007]

neither Elfyn or Ott get paid. Elfyn also works (long hours) at M-Sport whilst others concentrate on being drivers only.

That's disgraceful. I find it hard to believe that M-Sport couldn't find the money to pay them something. As long as you aren't paying your drivers, you can't seriously expect to win.

[rallyfiend]

They're allowed to have their own sponsors to pay their wage.

Not uncommon in motorsport.

[AL14]

That's disgraceful. I find it hard to believe that M-Sport couldn't find the money to pay them something. As long as you aren't paying your drivers, you can't seriously expect to win.

That is why, as said in other threads I still hope that Citroen goes away and Abu Dhabi goes back with M-Sport. I know it's pure speculation, maybe fantascentific, but it would be the best scenery for 2017.

[jacko]

neither Elfyn or Ott get paid. Elfyn also works (long hours) at M-Sport whilst others concentrate on being drivers only.

nonsense, absolute nonsense.. Both drivers are 100% full-time proffessional and they will get paid although it's the minimum salary i think like most of the working-people around the world (with some bonus if they get a podium or so). All the expenses like hotel, transport etc. will paid by M-Sport (and the sponsers of the team), the team is in the WRC for almost 20 years now, they know how to run a team.

But the question is will Tanak and Evans drive faster if they had a salary like €500.000 a year ? Don't think so. Both drivers have something to prove and only the best drivers will get paid in the end, it's like this in most of the sports. Only Hyundai with a lot of money to spend around can afford drivers to pay a good salary, that's why Neuville couldn't resist the offer in the end. Also a normal human thing.

Please be positive that M-Sport (and so Ford) is still in the game, that they have build a very good car and hopefully they will be there also on 2017 with the new regulations. The only thing i blame Malcolm Wilson is his choice of topdrivers (not all) and support drivers (specially in the Stobbart time).

[MJW]

nonsense, absolute nonsense.. Both drivers are 100% full-time proffessional and they will get paid although it's the minimum salary i think like most of the working-people around the world (with some bonus if they get a podium or so). All the expenses like hotel, transport etc. will paid by M-Sport (and the sponsers of the team), the team is in the WRC for almost 20 years now, they know how to run a team.

But the question is will Tanak and Evans drive faster if they had a salary like €500.000 a year ? Don't think so. Both drivers have something to prove and only the best drivers will get paid in the end, it's like this in most of the sports. Only Hyundai with a lot of money to spend around can afford drivers to pay a good salary, that's why Neuville couldn't resist the offer in the end. Also a normal human thing.

Please be positive that M-Sport (and so Ford) is still in the game, that they have build a very good car and hopefully they will be there also on 2017 with the new regulations. The only thing i blame Malcolm Wilson is his choice of topdrivers (not all) and support drivers (specially in the Stobbart time).
What I meant to say was they get a small salary, normal wage not superstar driver wages.

[AL14]

we need gigigalli in this thread now... after his inside info for Meeke to VW and Ogier to citroen for 2015 he is a legend now.

LOL He maybe was right in some way. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120338
"Capito defended Kris Meeke after recent criticism from his Citroen squad, and says he would be first choice for a fourth VW seat."

[Simmi]

LOL He maybe was right in some way. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120338
"Capito defended Kris Meeke after recent criticism from his Citroen squad, and says he would be first choice for a fourth VW seat."

Nice words from Capito. Not sure how much it helps Meeke mind you. Hopefully Kris still has a seat somewhere next year when VW stick Lappi in that fourth Polo ;)

[dimviii]

Capito is laughable.

[itix]

LOL He maybe was right in some way. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120338
"Capito defended Kris Meeke after recent criticism from his Citroen squad, and says he would be first choice for a fourth VW seat."

Oops... I was 7 minutes late in the news thread hahahha. My bad!
I really don't get Capito. Meeke crash something like twice the amount of Latvala... sure VW has deep pockets but 150 000 euro PLUS a 50% chance for a rebuild of a 500 000 euro car every event is probably too much even for VW.

Citroen that has probably lost all of its good sponsorship deals after Loeb wen't AWOL certainly can't afford it. I am not impressed with Meeke's recent run of form! I completely get Matton

[EightGear]

Aside from whether Matton is right or not, their strategy of publically putting pressure on their drivers is quite strange. They've done so for some years in a row now.

Is that some kind of French 'thing?' Maybe Ostberg and Meeke can go on a strike as response then.

[Simmi]

Capito is right when he says that Meeke is the only one really taking the fight to the VWs and showing a shred of personality. Who else do they really fear?

Okay we've seen front-running flashes from Tanak and Paddon at one rally each this year. That doesn't constitute a consistent threat. I'm not saying Meeke does either but at least he's in the slipstream of the Polos more often than not. That has to count for something?

[AL14]

I've always supported Meeke, I really like the character and his history. Also, I really don't like Matton's strategy to publicy put pressure on his drivers. It's not effective and a bit unrespectful for 2 guys that works hard.

But we have to face reality, Matton is not wrong. Meeke is a treat in terms of speed but not in terms of points. He is the proof that speed is just a part of the cake in rally. There are many other skills and abilities you need to carry with you unless you are participating in a rallysprint.
When we have to judge a rally driver we should do it looking at all the cake, and Meeke's results are poors in facts. Just look at the ranking. He is not actually a treat for VWs at the moment in my opinion. He has 54 points, one more than Evans...

[EstWRC]

i agree with Jost here, like i also said some pages ago that IMO Tänak and Meeke are the only ones splitting VW's on pure speed. Paddon too sometimes.

Good graphic from our estonian forum showing drivers results since Portugal

1. Ogier 98p (24,5p per ralli) 4 podiums
2. Latvala 65p (16,25p per ralli) 2 podiums
3. Östberg 43p (10,75p per ralli) 1 podium
4. Tänak 37p (9,25p per ralli) 1 podium
5. Mikkelsen 36p (9p per ralli) 2 podium
6. Neuville 35p (8,75p per ralli) 1 podium
7. Paddon 34p (8,5p per ralli) 1 podium
8. Meeke 19p (4,75p per ralli) 0 podium
9. Evans 12p (3p per ralli) 0 podium
10.Sordo 9p (2,25p per ralli) 0 podium

[Jack4688`]

I think the the problem you've got as a current WRC team manager is that if you don't have Ogier driving one of your cars then you're searching around for scraps - the depth of talent isn't what it used to be. Or maybe since Loeb there has been one driver miles above the rest - we'll never know how Kankkunen in his prime compares to Makinen in his prime, to Loeb in his prime, to Ogier in his prime etc. Maybe Meeke, Latvala et al are as good as some champions gone by but Loeb and Ogier have been so far ahead they have made their contemporaries look worse than they were/are.

[Ounin]

I think the the problem you've got as a current WRC team manager is that if you don't have Ogier driving one of your cars then you're searching around for scraps - the depth of talent isn't what it used to be. Or maybe since Loeb there has been one driver miles above the rest - we'll never know how Kankkunen in his prime compares to Makinen in his prime, to Loeb in his prime, to Ogier in his prime etc. Maybe Meeke, Latvala et al are as good as some champions gone by but Loeb and Ogier have been so far ahead they have made their contemporaries look worse than they were/are.

No don't agree. Problem is that the team manager is responsable, no excuses, if there is no Ogier or Loeb available you have to invest in young blood, give them time and more than enough rally miles to show raw potential. Instead they are waiting for drivers with money rather than talent. Have the balls to invest time and don't be afraid to be wrong once in a while, the futur champ is already driving around only problem is nobody knows where.

[AL14]

No don't agree. Problem is that the team manager is responsable, no excuses, if there is no Ogier or Loeb available you have to invest in young blood, give them time and more than enough rally miles to show raw potential. Instead they are waiting for drivers with money rather than talent. Have the balls to invest time and don't be afraid to be wrong once in a while, the futur champ is already driving around only problem is nobody knows where.

And when you find that future champ it's smart if you don't make him go away...

agree with you totally but still, jack has a point. it's not as "easy" as before to find future champs. This must be said.
Like you say, tough, they're not doing too much to find or "create" one investing in young talents rather than hiring cheap or rich drivers.

[dodge33cymru]

I think you're spot on Jack. If you don't have Ogier, you're left with what else is out there. Which is either fast or consistent, but rarely both (and rarely as good at either as Ogier).

At the moment, the pool of drivers who would have competition for their signature from the 5 manufacturers in the market next year is probably Ogier, Mikkelsen, Neuville, Lappi and Paddon and that's it. Latvala is expensive and older than Ogier, though might be the only option open to Toyota in 2017 if Hyundai and VW have the others contracted already. Tanak and Meeke wouldn't be consistent enough to have value to the big payers and Evans doesn't have the speed, although I hope Ford give him one more season. Abbring might show on tarmac that he's worth considering.

So for team managers, it comes down to what's important? Now or the future? Speed or consistency.

I would not want to be Makinen when it comes to choosing drivers at the moment. You can have a great car, but if Ogier, Mikkelsen, Lappi, Neuville and Paddon are contracted already, then you're left with Latvala (who Hyundai might also want) and little else.

Likewise, for Matton next year he's in the position of having to take a massive gamble if he wants to upgrade his current drivers. Finding someone faster than Meeke or more consistent than Ostberg will be a real challenge, seeing as they had probably placed a lot of faith in Lefevbre doing better than he has this year.

In short, Abbring might be the best bet on the market at the moment, but even he might have a contract for next year anyway (he was talking about being back at Ypres next year, which might be with the new Hyundai).

Sorry, ramble over - I might return at some point.

[EightGear]

I believe Abbring is on a two-year deal, but I have no idea how much competitive driving is involved in that deal instead of testing (next year they will need to test their '17 car).

Paddon doing so well may open up some opportunities for him, if Paddon moves up to the main team next year I can't see Sordo act as 3rd driver to be honest.

After Lappi/Tidemand I can't help but feel there's a bit of a gap to the next group of young drivers. Breen can maybe get the benefit of the doubt if he can start beating Kajto consistently.

[AL14]

How many new spec cars will have Hyundai next year?

[Simmi]

Lefebvre's second WRC car outing will be Corsica - http://www.citroenracing.com/2015/actualites/actualites-wrc/68289/stephane-lefebvre-tour-de-corse-ds-3-wrc/

He's also doing the reccy for Australia.

[nafpaktos]

After Lappi/Tidemand I can't help but feel there's a bit of a gap to the next group of young drivers. Breen can maybe get the benefit of the doubt if he can start beating Kajto consistently.
I dont think even if he achieves what you say he has true hopes to do the next step.He is just a mediocre driver.i dont remember a great performance from him.Erc is the ceiling for him.

[wia5958]

Can see meeke staying at citroen and ostberg out for leuvbre reasoning being that if citroen want to be on verge of winning rallys meekes their only real option yes he has had his offs this year but they havent been big offs if he can irradicate that the rest of the season n maintain his speed he will b safe young seb can do ostbergs job of being a safety net and points collector while getting experience of the rounds ostbergs excuse for lack of speed on tarmac just isnt good nough hes been in the wrc nearly 10years. rest of teams to remain the same with paddon and sordo chopping n changing for first teams depending on gravel/tarmac events

[Rallyper]

Lefebvre's second WRC car outing will be Corsica - http://www.citroenracing.com/2015/actualites/actualites-wrc/68289/stephane-lefebvre-tour-de-corse-ds-3-wrc/

He's also doing the reccy for Australia.

Lefebvre hasn´t let us down yet. So big hopes in him, not to mention from Citroen I suppose.

[wia5958]

I dont think even if he achieves what you say he has true hopes to do the next step.He is just a mediocre driver.i dont remember a great performance from him.Erc is the ceiling for him.
Would being a former wrc academy champ and swrc champ suggest he is a bit more than mediocre and is still only 25 lots of years in him yet

[Simmi]

Would being a former wrc academy champ and swrc champ suggest he is a bit more than mediocre and is still only 25 lots of years in him yet

Was listening to Breen on the Absolute Rally podcast and he was talking about ideally moving on upwards next year into the WRC with a WRC car. Not entirely sure how he's planning on that or what rides (beyond the obvious) are out there.

One thing that sprung to mind was Dmack. I'm sure I read that they were planning to get their tyres back on WRC cars next year. Not sure if that's still the case or if there is any budget floating around/been diverted elsewhere? No idea but something to monitor maybe. Could be a lifeline to someone.

Certainly got my fingers crossed for Craig either way. Super nice guy.

[janvanvurpa]

Can see meeke staying at citroen and ostberg out for leuvbre reasoning being that if citroen want to be on verge of winning rallys meekes their only real option yes he has had his offs this year but they havent been big offs if he can irradicate that the rest of the season n maintain his speed he will b safe young seb can do ostbergs job of being a safety net and points collector while getting experience of the rounds ostbergs excuse for lack of speed on tarmac just isnt good nough hes been in the wrc nearly 10years. rest of teams to remain the same with paddon and sordo chopping n changing for first teams depending on gravel/tarmac events

wowitsbeenawhilesincewehaveseenacompleteairheadedp ostwiththeoldclichednot
capsnoperiodsnoeffortnocaretypeofcrappostedheredid youreallydothatunnintenionally
orisitaparodyandhowthefuckarewesupposedtoknowthedi fferenceareyou12?whatsirradicatewhatmean?

[Simmi]

wowitsbeenawhilesincewehaveseenacompleteairheadedp ostwiththeoldclichednot
capsnoperiodsnoeffortnocaretypeofcrappostedheredid youreallydothatunnintenionally
orisitaparodyandhowthefuckarewesupposedtoknowthedi fferenceareyou12?whatsirradicatewhatmean?

Still made more sense and provided more value than anything you've posted recently.

[rallyace]

In case Citroën decide to part ways with either Meeke or Østberg at the end of the season, I'm sure the opportunity of luring Thierry Neuville into the team (as mentioned by a few others earlier in the thread) is an intriguing thought. However, I do believe that it would be very unwise of Hyundai to let Neuville go, especially at this time when Hyundai is looking to be a contender in 2016 with their new i20. Paddon looks like a lock for Hyundai for 2016 which leaves only one spot up for grabs, and it'll likely be a great fight between Sordo and Neuville as to who will get it.

This means Hyundai will have a driver in Paddon who will be able to challenge for wins on some rallies (mostly on gravel) as his pace, with very limited experience at that, has been stellar, but he will quite likely not be as consistent a point scorer immediately as Hyundai might wish.

So Hyundai need consistency for 2016 whilst Paddon needs time to develop into a prime driver who will be at the very top of the WRC drivers' standings in the future. Even though Sordo has been praised as a very reliable and consistent driver for the past decade (especially on tarmac), I do find it difficult to see Hyundai keeping him over Neuville. Not only has Neuville been better than Sordo this season (currently 5th in the drivers' standings compared to Sordo's 10th, and that's even despite Neuville having a very bad year), but Neuville undoubtedly also seems like the driver with the most upside when compared to Sordo.

Situations such as these are of course nearly impossible to predict as even the slightest change can have a big impact, but in my opinion they make for some great debates between rally fans in an effort to share own views and hopefully be enlightened by the views of others. It'll certainly also be interesting to see how things pan out in reality for not only Hyundai, but for all works teams.

[Simmi]

Agree with your assessment of the drivers. Paddon certainly has more upside than Sordo at this point. I think we've seen everything that Dani can do - where as we don't know how high the ceiling is for Paddon yet. Bad year for Neuville but he should still be team leader, especially with the new car coming.

The issue the post above misses is that all three guys are under contract for next year - assuming Paddon has re-upped. So Hyundai would have to let Thierry be bought out. I think? Paddon brought budget to that #20 car - so if you roll him into the second 'factory' entry I'm not sure we'll be seeing those four-car entries that we saw at times this year.

I'd expect Sordo to share drives in the third car with Abbring. I'm sure I read a rumour about three drivers (or top two) counting for manufacturer points in the future.

Anyone know if that's true?

[Mirek]

I dont think even if he achieves what you say he has true hopes to do the next step.He is just a mediocre driver.i dont remember a great performance from him.Erc is the ceiling for him.

In this moment I would put my money on Emil Bergkvist. Sure he is at the start of his career but for me he seems to be the most promissing young driver available.

[EightGear]

Agree with your assessment of the drivers. Paddon certainly has more upside than Sordo at this point. I think we've seen everything that Dani can do - where as we don't know how high the ceiling is for Paddon yet. Bad year for Neuville but he should still be team leader, especially with the new car coming.

The issue the post above misses is that all three guys are under contract for next year - assuming Paddon has re-upped. So Hyundai would have to let Thierry be bought out. I think? Paddon brought budget to that #20 car - so if you roll him into the second 'factory' entry I'm not sure we'll be seeing those four-car entries that we saw at times this year.

I'd expect Sordo to share drives in the third car with Abbring. I'm sure I read a rumour about three drivers (or top two) counting for manufacturer points in the future.

Anyone know if that's true?

The original plan was for Paddon to do only 9 events this year. Abbring would jump in the 3rd car for the remaining 4 events. However, Paddon then came up with more budget so they entered a 4th car in order to let Abbring drive his rallies.

I think we won't see a 4th car being entered next year again, especially if Paddon moves up to the main team and doesn't need to pay anymore.

[tommeke_B]

The original plan was for Paddon to do only 9 events this year. Abbring would jump in the 3rd car for the remaining 4 events. However, Paddon then came up with more results so they entered a 4th car in order to let Abbring drive his rallies.

I think we won't see a 4th car being entered next year again, especially if Paddon moves up to the main team and doesn't need to pay anymore.

Corrected that... ;) I don't think any team would let Paddon pay to drive for them at this moment. People at Hyundai should be happy if they can keep Paddon and/or Neuville.

[Eli]

Corrected that... ;) I don't think any team would let Paddon pay to drive for them at this moment. People at Hyundai should be happy if they can keep Paddon and/or Neuville.

I think it would also be stupid for Neuville to leave them next year since they have the new car and that's what they have been working towards the last 2 years..I hope for Neuville's sake he'll be able to challange VW throughout the season or else this was all a waste of time and he could have stayed at M-Sport after 2013, and now could already challenge for victories. (maybe, really depends if that car is as good as Malcolm Wilson claims it to be)

[EightGear]

Corrected that... ;) I don't think any team would let Paddon pay to drive for them at this moment. People at Hyundai should be happy if they can keep Paddon and/or Neuville.

Wasn't it communicated by both himself and Hyundai that he managed to get extra funds? IIRC it was announced even before Sweden, which was his first rally of the season.
So in 2015 at least he had no results yet...

[Lundefaret]

Toyota:
In my opinion there is three drivers Toyota should consider.
Latvala: Ogier-challenging pace on all surfaces, and with Tommis help could be more conistent.
Meeke: Ogier-challenging pace on all surfaces, and with Tommis help could be more conistent.
Neuville: Tommi could bring back his "mojo" (the have met before :)
I would go for Latvala and Meeke (and a Yong charger like Sunninen, Lappi, etc)
Latvala and Meeke are the only two drivers that really challenges Ogier on speed, and Tommi him self could be of great assistance to make them more consistent. Then they could take the fight to VW.

Hyundai:
Paddon is fast on the "easy" rallies, wich are less technical, but still struggles on the more technical stuff. But is a keeper.
Neuville has huge potential, but has done a "Petter Solberg". He has become stressed out by his lack of pace, and started pushing in all the wrong places. He was HUGE in Finland in 2013, where he drove magnificent, but later he has started to go harder and harder in to the turns, missing apexes and destroying exits, costing a lot of time and being of higher risk. If the new car could bring back the "old" Neuville, that would be great, the WRC need more top drivers being at their top.

Citroën:
It will be interesting to see what happens with Citroëns (DSs) WRC effort.
If they should continue they should run a three car team.
The top drivers should be:
Meeke, obviuos speed.
Mikkelsen: He should be ready to come out of his roll as "test driver" in VW, and a new objective could give him a little fire in his belly. Now things are a bit to comfortable. He dont really need to perform more then adequate, because he could always have an excuse for his performance (also to him self), that he is the third driver, he has other objectives, and he doesnt have the same technical updates as the other two.

Volkswagen:
Ogier is a given, for all the right reasons.
If Latvala goes to Toyota they should hire Meeke. A colorfull character with huge speed. Capito would bring more confidence in him.
If Mikkelsen joins another team (not likely), the should consider another alternative. Lappi, Kajatanovic, Tideman are some of the names that pops up.

[N.O.T]

Mikkelsen extended his contract this year so he stays. No changes next year apart from Citroen if they decide to change the lineup... the rest are just rubbish talk.

[stefanvv]

What's so silly about 16' season? Ogier will be champion again, the rest does not matter.....

[Mirek]

None of many last seasons was silly but all were named so in their forum threads...

Maybe with the exception of Loeb hurting himself on a motorbike and Grönholm trying to take the advantage of that (and Conrad Rautenbach crashing into Loeb on the road section). Even that happened years a go...

[stefanvv]

Well yes, I've enjoyed last 3 seasons more than previous 2 or 3 or more, I don't know why.....

[N.O.T]

silly season = transfer market season, not what your expectations are...

why me dear god ?

[EightGear]

Yes, silly season is the term for speculation and rumours about driver line-up

[Mintexmemory]

So-called because as the British soccer season used to start in late August the transfer speculation was the only thing of interest in the newspapers. Parliament goes on holiday and very little happened (usually) during the month. In an attempt to boost sales the back page stories became increasingly speculative and 'silly' So the speculation before any coming sport series became known as the silly season.

[itix]

I don't expect any major changes unless Msport decide to drop Evans (I would) and Citroën decides to drop either (or both) of their drivers.

Østbergs shakedown crash in Oz hurt his otherwise relatively ok challenge. Meeke on the other hand redeemed himself for his really shitty year (apart from Argentina). Maybe a rally China entry would boost his chances to stay in the team as he seem to do well in the overseas rallies (*joke*).

Hyundai could potentially change some of it's line up... Probably run Sordo on Tarmac rallies and select events like Portugal while Abbring or other young talent drives the orher events.

[Mirek]

So-called because as the British soccer season used to start in late August the transfer speculation was the only thing of interest in the newspapers. Parliament goes on holiday and very little happened (usually) during the month. In an attempt to boost sales the back page stories became increasingly speculative and 'silly' So the speculation before any coming sport series became known as the silly season.

Thanks for explanation. Sometimes it's hard to catch exact meaning of each saying in another language.

[AL14]

VW drivers and Hyundai's have contracts until 2016, M-Sport has no money, Citroen don't have too much alternatives.

I think line ups will be almost the same with some little changes like Paddon becoming 2nd driver on gravel and Lefebvre doing more rallys or, if they want to complete their suicide, becoming manufacturer driver.

There are not at the moment suitable drivers from other categories except from Lappi who is waiting for VW's call in 2017.

The funny thing is that if somehow there will be one movements then everything will shake up. Imagine Paddon going to, let's say, Citroen in place of Meeke. I let you imagine what can happen next.

So at the end, or they keep same drivers, or there will be a sort of revolution. No middle-roads.

[pantealex]

There will be (only) 2 new Hyundai i20 WRC at MonteCarlo (and no old ones)
Source: Hyundai boss.

[Rallyper]

We also have a silly-season in WRC2, haven´t we?

And if only one driver will be dropped in WRC (in my eyes it would be Evans) we start to have a puzzle to lay. It opens quite many ways of swaps.

[all-rally]

We also have a silly-season in WRC2, haven´t we?

And if only one driver will be dropped in WRC (in my eyes it would be Evans) we start to have a puzzle to lay. It opens quite many ways of swaps.

I think that Tanak's position is much more at threat then Evans. Evans is seen as a long term investment and is ahead on points on Tanak so far.

[jacko]

My bet (and wish):
VW: Ogier, latvala
VW II: Mikkelsen
Citroën: Meeke, Tänak
Citroën junior: Petter Solberg, Lefebvre
Hyundai: Neuville, Paddon (gravel), Sordo (tarmac)
Hyundai N: Abbring (all), Sordo (some gravel events), Paddon (tarmac)
M-Sport DMACK: Evans, Ketomaa (gravel), Bouffier (gravel/ tarmac)
M-Sport Pirelli: Kubica, Ostberg

[rallyace]

Unless the market for drivers opens up and someone will suddenly be up for grabs, I doubt M-Sport would look to replace either of their current two drivers. However, from a stricly hypothetical point of view, I would argue that it would in fact be Evans getting the boot rather than Tänak if M-Sport were to get rid of one of them.

I do agree that Evans is a long-term investment for M-Sport, but I also find it difficult to believe that Malcolm Wilson would keep Evans over Tänak for 2016. Evans does have consistency, but he lacks speed. Big-time. While Tänak regularly sets stage times that rival (and sometimes beat) the very best, Evans simply doesn't. Tänak has also shown incredible pace on many rallies this season as evident in the ultra-fast Rally Poland as well as other very solid performances.

Evans has now had almost two full seasons at the WRC's finest level, but as mentioned previously in this thread, he unfortunately has not given M-Sport much reason to believe that he is worthy of a seat in 2016. His recent lack of form (stretching back to May) isn't helping his case.

The thing that speaks for Evans over Tänak would be Evans' consistency (although this has been lacking quite a bit lately). This is what Evans seems to have and Tänak doesn't. A brilliant drive in the season opener by Tänak was ruined by a silly mistake on day 2, throwing away what looked like a podium finish. We all know how Mexico went, and Argentina wasn't much better. Meanwhile Evans was putting up solid numbers - never flashy in any way, but decent, consistent Evans-like numbers. But then something happened that would have a huge impact on both drivers: Enter the new Fiesta.

In the end it might come down to this: Tänak has adapted extremely well to the new Fiesta, and that's vital, especially because Evans has had the exact opposite reaction. This is without a doubt something M-Sport look at when establishing who's in and who's out. So while Evans has lost his consistency since Rally Portugal when the new car was introduced, Tänak has been more consistent and shown incredible pace as well, regardless of the road surface. Let's have the numbers speak for themselves:

Evans before the new car: 6 - 8 - 12 - 15 (41 pts in 4 rounds) average 10.25
Tänak before the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 1 (13 pts in 4 rounds) average 3.25

Evans after the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 0 - 8 - 2 (22 pts in 6 rounds) average 3.66
Tänak after the new car: 10 - 0 - 15+2 - 10 - 4 - 8 (49 pts in 6 rounds) average 8.16

Evans' age does work in his favour as he is still young, but it seems like he has lost what he was once praised for: Consistency. It basically comes down to whether you're an optimist or pessimist regarding whether Evans will bounce back or not, or rather, whether Malcolm Wilson believes the former or the latter.

It's not an easy decision, but I would keep Tänak. Let's get a friendly discussion going to see everyone's point of view on this. :)

[janvanvurpa]

So-called because as the British soccer season used to start in late August the transfer speculation was the only thing of interest in the newspapers. Parliament goes on holiday and very little happened (usually) during the month. In an attempt to boost sales the back page stories became increasingly speculative and 'silly' So the speculation before any coming sport series became known as the silly season.

You win the understatement of the week award...
But then again, without motorsport and team centered forums just where are people going to turn for their fix of stories increasingly speculative?

Forum activity worldwide has plummeted since the rise of things like Facebook and Twitter---where there is really no expectation of any discussion increasingly speculative
or otherwise.

And since there seems to be no interest in the details of construction, or say engine details, or gear ratios or suspension travel, build journals, or anything except stories increasingly speculative about shuffling of personalities or what one driver is so much faster, what else is there to yap about?

I always thought the term was perfect.

[AL14]

Unless the market for drivers opens up and someone will suddenly be up for grabs, I doubt M-Sport would look to replace either of their current two drivers. However, from a stricly hypothetical point of view, I would argue that it would in fact be Evans getting the boot rather than Tänak if M-Sport were to get rid of one of them.

I do agree that Evans is a long-term investment for M-Sport, but I also find it difficult to believe that Malcolm Wilson would keep Evans over Tänak for 2016. Evans does have consistency, but he lacks speed. Big-time. While Tänak regularly sets stage times that rival (and sometimes beat) the very best, Evans simply doesn't. Tänak has also shown incredible pace on many rallies this season as evident in the ultra-fast Rally Poland as well as other very solid performances.

Evans has now had almost two full seasons at the WRC's finest level, but as mentioned previously in this thread, he unfortunately has not given M-Sport much reason to believe that he is worthy of a seat in 2016. His recent lack of form (stretching back to May) isn't helping his case.

The thing that speaks for Evans over Tänak would be Evans' consistency (although this has been lacking quite a bit lately). This is what Evans seems to have and Tänak doesn't. A brilliant drive in the season opener by Tänak was ruined by a silly mistake on day 2, throwing away what looked like a podium finish. We all know how Mexico went, and Argentina wasn't much better. Meanwhile Evans was putting up solid numbers - never flashy in any way, but decent, consistent Evans-like numbers. But then something happened that would have a huge impact on both drivers: Enter the new Fiesta.

In the end it might come down to this: Tänak has adapted extremely well to the new Fiesta, and that's vital, especially because Evans has had the exact opposite reaction. This is without a doubt something M-Sport look at when establishing who's in and who's out. So while Evans has lost his consistency since Rally Portugal when the new car was introduced, Tänak has been more consistent and shown incredible pace as well, regardless of the road surface. Let's have the numbers speak for themselves:

Evans before the new car: 6 - 8 - 12 - 15 (41 pts in 4 rounds) average 10.25
Tänak before the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 1 (13 pts in 4 rounds) average 3.25

Evans after the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 0 - 8 - 2 (22 pts in 6 rounds) average 3.66
Tänak after the new car: 10 - 0 - 15+2 - 10 - 4 - 8 (49 pts in 6 rounds) average 8.16

Evans' age does work in his favour as he is still young, but it seems like he has lost what he was once praised for: Consistency. It basically comes down to whether you're an optimist or pessimist regarding whether Evans will bounce back or not, or rather, whether Malcolm Wilson believes the former or the latter.

It's not an easy decision, but I would keep Tänak. Let's get a friendly discussion going to see everyone's point of view on this. :)
I generally agree with you.
But we must consider that Wilson can't choose drivers only by their skills but also and especially by their money.

Btw, I think the way they decided to make Evans learn and improve was not the right one. Last year he had orders to bring car home and build speed this year but it is just useless. I think a driver must explore his potential and find his limits, he should have been free to crash and build speed as soon as he could. Now he is a bit lost because of it and he is used to a certain rythm that is more difficult to improve now. Anyway, I think he is also not too much good himself.

[EstWRC]

Unless the market for drivers opens up and someone will suddenly be up for grabs, I doubt M-Sport would look to replace either of their current two drivers. However, from a stricly hypothetical point of view, I would argue that it would in fact be Evans getting the boot rather than Tänak if M-Sport were to get rid of one of them.

I do agree that Evans is a long-term investment for M-Sport, but I also find it difficult to believe that Malcolm Wilson would keep Evans over Tänak for 2016. Evans does have consistency, but he lacks speed. Big-time. While Tänak regularly sets stage times that rival (and sometimes beat) the very best, Evans simply doesn't. Tänak has also shown incredible pace on many rallies this season as evident in the ultra-fast Rally Poland as well as other very solid performances.

Evans has now had almost two full seasons at the WRC's finest level, but as mentioned previously in this thread, he unfortunately has not given M-Sport much reason to believe that he is worthy of a seat in 2016. His recent lack of form (stretching back to May) isn't helping his case.

The thing that speaks for Evans over Tänak would be Evans' consistency (although this has been lacking quite a bit lately). This is what Evans seems to have and Tänak doesn't. A brilliant drive in the season opener by Tänak was ruined by a silly mistake on day 2, throwing away what looked like a podium finish. We all know how Mexico went, and Argentina wasn't much better. Meanwhile Evans was putting up solid numbers - never flashy in any way, but decent, consistent Evans-like numbers. But then something happened that would have a huge impact on both drivers: Enter the new Fiesta.

In the end it might come down to this: Tänak has adapted extremely well to the new Fiesta, and that's vital, especially because Evans has had the exact opposite reaction. This is without a doubt something M-Sport look at when establishing who's in and who's out. So while Evans has lost his consistency since Rally Portugal when the new car was introduced, Tänak has been more consistent and shown incredible pace as well, regardless of the road surface. Let's have the numbers speak for themselves:

Evans before the new car: 6 - 8 - 12 - 15 (41 pts in 4 rounds) average 10.25
Tänak before the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 1 (13 pts in 4 rounds) average 3.25

Evans after the new car: 0 - 12 - 0 - 0 - 8 - 2 (22 pts in 6 rounds) average 3.66
Tänak after the new car: 10 - 0 - 15+2 - 10 - 4 - 8 (49 pts in 6 rounds) average 8.16

Evans' age does work in his favour as he is still young, but it seems like he has lost what he was once praised for: Consistency. It basically comes down to whether you're an optimist or pessimist regarding whether Evans will bounce back or not, or rather, whether Malcolm Wilson believes the former or the latter.

It's not an easy decision, but I would keep Tänak. Let's get a friendly discussion going to see everyone's point of view on this. :)

completely agree with you! Like a lot of people say, it is easier to make a fast driver consistent than consistent driver fast. Tänak showed his potential in Poland and he can be that fast on every rally but he just needs more experience. The thing in Poland was that all of the stages were new to everyone and the more experienced drivers didnt have any advantage, this has been said by Tänak himself. He has said that it is just unbelievable how well the experienced drivers know the stages, they know every stone and every tree on the stages.

The points gap between Tänak and Evans after the new car would be even bigger if Tänak hadn't retired from third in Sardinia (gearbox failure) and in finland he throw himself a podium away after hitting the stone on SS3.

The worrying thing for me is that the new Fiesta and Tänak doesn't seem to be very good combo on tarmac. He showed great pace in Monte with the old Fiesta, especially on the opening stage where he was second and only beaten by the one and only Mr.Loeb himself and he was 4th in overall before sliding out. Based on Monte i was very much waiting for Rally Germany but in Germany Tänak was just nowhere and it is his favourite tarmac rally. Even in his first year in WRC in Germany 2012 he showed better speed and won two stages ahead of Loeb and Sordo.

But we will see what he can do in France but i think the next rally where he can be on podium again is Wales.

Evans is just nowhere on gravel, on tarmac he is better but nothing special either.

[onemanband]

I quite agree with you and as an Estonian I hope that so does mr. Wilson. But being realistic I can see Tänak's future being the most unsure of the current field. Malcolm is trying very hard to talk his car up and I am sure that when someone who might even be inferior to Ott comes up with enough budget then the M-Sport seat will be his. But i can somewhat see Citroen being interested in Tänak's services, but it is not likely. For sure I hope he well get a full season and I think he deserves one, but the world of motorsport can be cruel sometimes.

[Simmi]

If I was M-Sport I'd get rid of them both personally. Neither are the answer in the short or long-term.

I just don't think Evans has the ultimate pace. Although don't make points comparisons vs Tanak without factoring in what actually happened in the rallies (electrical issue, transmission, water pump). You can often skew numbers to prove the point you want to make. Tanak has more raw pace than Evans for certain but he's only a lesser version of Meeke if we're honest.

The reason Tanak, Ostberg etc keep getting drives is that there just aren't enough guys with WRC experience out there. For that reason it wouldn't shock me to see Mads back in a Ford next year in some capacity. The same way Mikko returned. The same way Ott went back. You're hoping for something new but the answers will still mostly be the same.

The only hope we have is that with the addition of Toyota and (I hope) three-car teams is that it forces some younger drivers through.

[EstWRC]

too early to get rid of them IMO. It is only their second year in a WRC car, if they don't prove next year with Tänak getting even faster and consistent and Evans just just faster, then yes.

[onemanband]

If I was M-Sport I'd get rid of them both personally. Neither are the answer in the short or long-term.

I just don't think Evans has the ultimate pace. Although don't make points comparisons vs Tanak without factoring in what actually happened in the rallies (electrical issue, transmission, water pump). You can often skew numbers to prove the point you want to make. Tanak has more raw pace than Evans for certain but he's only a lesser version of Meeke if we're honest.

You might be right. One thing for sure - none of them will ever be as good as Ogier. But looking at the currend field of drivers then I believe that things are not looking so bad for Tänak. So it would also be for Evans if he'd get his start of the season form back again.
I don't think we can be so sure about your Meeke comparison because I don't think the Fiesta is nearly as good as Malcolm says it is.
Young drivers do not need more WRC seats but they need drives supported by manufacturers in lower classes like WRC-2 or WRC-3. The only team that is running one is Škoda(VW). A lot of talent gets lost on the way.

[AL14]

Evans is lost. Tanak can still do it because he has the speed and the determination but he must be more problem free. And I don't believe that many of his problems are due to mechanical failure. That would make him the most unlucky man in the world. He should blame himself most of the time or he will never correct his errors.

[Simmi]

In Motorsport News there was a story with Malcolm Wilson saying Elfyn won't be dropped from Ford. And I read on to see that he's only referring to the final three rounds of 2015. Zero mention of next year.

"I've told him [Evans] not to not listen to any of this bollocks going about that he's going to be dropped. He's not. I can guarantee that he will be in the car for the last three rallies of the season. But we've got to see some changes. It's a good job that we've had Ott here, so we've been able to see what the car is capable of."

[b3637853]

In Motorsport News there was a story with Malcolm Wilson saying Elfyn won't be dropped from Ford. And I read on to see that he's only referring to the final three rounds of 2015. Zero mention of next year.

"I've told him [Evans] not to not listen to any of this bollocks going about that he's going to be dropped. He's not. I can guarantee that he will be in the car for the last three rallies of the season. But we've got to see some changes. It's a good job that we've had Ott here, so we've been able to see what the car is capable of."

Of course he will be, they signed contract where it stands that Evans is driving full season. I don't see the point of this statement from Malcolm. Is it even possible to drop full factory driver from any event? I mean if he hasn't got any injury.

[TWRC]

Of course he will be, they signed contract where it stands that Evans is driving full season. I don't see the point of this statement from Malcolm. Is it even possible to drop full factory driver from any event? I mean if he hasn't got any injury.
You can replace him for sure, Duval sat out 2 rallies in 2005 after constantly crashing out in the beginning of the year...

[mousti]

Depends if he his the priority No.1 driver at the team or not. Let him replace with Duval, he will need all the positive publicity and money now that we know he committed insurance fraud.. :p

[EightGear]

Even the #1 priority driver wil have to do at least 'only' 3 events. So in theory they could replace him for the last 3 rounds.

I haven't seen that rumour though and it would be quite strange as well.

[b3637853]

You can replace him for sure, Duval sat out 2 rallies in 2005 after constantly crashing out in the beginning of the year...

Then why not give an outing for other perspective driver, maybe Breen in Rally GB?

[dimviii]

where is NOT?

[N.O.T]

Then why not give an outing for other perspective driver, maybe Breen in Rally GB?

whats the point of doing that ?

[b3637853]

whats the point of doing that ?

Similar to what Citroen did with Meeke in 2013, they gave him 2 outings to see where he can be in top WRC drivers. Maybe Breen isn't the best example, but what is the point of another 8th place from Evans apart from manufacturers points.

[AL14]

We're talking too much about Evans being replaced.

Someone is paying for him, Wilson needs and likes money. Evans will stay with Wilson, no matter anything else.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota instead waste millions on two teams, hire a great driver.... Same to M-Sport. Citroën should hire a chinese one

[N.O.T]

We're talking too much about Evans being replaced.

Someone is paying for him, Wilson needs and likes money. Evans will stay with Wilson, no matter anything else.

common sense is not allowed in here mister...

[Doon]

How about Wilson takes Evans' seat for the remaining rounds?

[N.O.T]

How about Wilson takes Evans' seat for the remaining rounds?

why ?

[Andre Oliveira]

Matthew Wilson?

[RAS007]

In Motorsport News there was a story with Malcolm Wilson saying Elfyn won't be dropped from Ford. And I read on to see that he's only referring to the final three rounds of 2015. Zero mention of next year.

"I've told him [Evans] not to not listen to any of this bollocks going about that he's going to be dropped. He's not. I can guarantee that he will be in the car for the last three rallies of the season. But we've got to see some changes. It's a good job that we've had Ott here, so we've been able to see what the car is capable of."

Malcolm is the only one talking bollocks here. The new car doesn't seem to be capable of fuck all, except very distant 5th and 6th places.

[dimviii]

Malcolm is the only one talking bollocks here. The new car doesn't seem to be capable of fuck all, except very distant 5th and 6th places.

how do you know the new fiesta is not capable?

[rallyfun]

how do you know the new fiesta is not capable?

When was the last time Fiesta was capable?

[EightGear]

When was the last time Fiesta was capable?

Poland.

[Mariusz]

In Poland it was more Tanak who was driving like crazy and taking a lot if risks than Fiesta being so great. Unless you mean that Fiesta was helping him by disabling his rear brakes so Tanak could go faster :)

[EstWRC]

Spot on Mariusz, he admitted himself he took a lot risks and you can see it from the videos in youtube and also in WRC+ onboards.

i think all the line-ups will stay the same, some movements in Hyundai with Paddon going to mainteam and maybe Lefebvre to Citroen but i doubt it.

[Toyoda]

Kinda surprised Ott would even be considered to loose his seat, He is doing as well as Paddon, which is okish, not great but improving so for sure he will stay. Paddons season has not been that great either. Plenty of 0 point finishes. But improving slowly. Shown pace finally, which is great.
I could see Ostberg in Ford for Evans if outted by Citroen but its more likely there will be no changes.
The question for me is, will Paddon drive in one of the two Hyundai's in Monte, he has never done it, but he said Hyundai wanted him to do it next year in an interview at Finland, but surely Sordo would be a better option?

[Toyoda]

It would be great to see Meeke in a 4th VW next year, or the new Hyundai :)

[itix]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120840/msport-wont-drop-evans-this-year

*sigh*

Wilson... You are being an idiot. That man has done nothing apart from one stage victory in Germany to deserve that seat. I get that you like young talent and for that I have always respected you, but only one of those adjectives apply to Evans and that is young. There's gotta be someone less crap on the market.

[dodge33cymru]

Who?

There are no obvious other choices for your 'consistency' seat. If Meeke is dropped, he would make sense, but Meeke and Tanak in one team isn't a recipe for anything other than a huge parts bill.

So if you're looking outside, VW and Hyundai drivers are put, so who's left? Lappi is clearly already contracted, Tidemand or Breen have hardly impressed in their WRC outings, and Tidemand might be contracted to Skoda already, Kajto and Kopecky are not of an age where they will develop further.

To me, Abbring would be the only one worth taking a risk on, but that would be a huge risk compared to Evans, who has a WRC stage win and podium and is usually a consistent performer.

I'm not saying he's going to beat Ogier ever, but who else is? Evan might be their best bet for results next year still, and could be considered a good advert for their main programmes, selling R5 and R2 cars.

The other option could be a fourth choice Hyundai driver, offering to run anyone that Toyota sign 'on loan' or looking for someone with funding like Breen.

[Simmi]

I actually like Meeke/Tanak as a line-up. At least that combination would have chance to show what the Fiesta can do. With another season under their belts maybe we'll see more consistency. I'm sure there will still be some crash damage but at least Meeke could make the team a bit more relevant again.

If they stick with the current line-up I can't see them ever being better than a last in the championship team.

[dodge33cymru]

I see what you mean. Either way, Meeke or Ostberg I'd see as an improvement over Tanak or Evans respectively and if, as seems likely, Citroen are determined to drop one (so they can try blaming the driver rather than the car IMO) then whichever is available could be worth taking.

[Doon]

Ostberg is perfectly suited to M-Sport. He's consistently not at the sharp end, and he has plenty of money.

Meeke on the other hand is only able to drive a car which he doesn't have to pay for, therefore it is highly unlikely that he'll ever drive for M-Sport.

[bassist]

It would be great to see Meeke in a 4th VW next year, or the new Hyundai :)

Is there any likelyhood of a 4th VW then?

[AL14]

Is there any likelyhood of a 4th VW then?

No.

[liposh]

Some rumours about 4th VW for Lappi. Maybe only few events. ...but Meeke is impossible. ...VW has all 3+1 drivers, they dont need Meeke .

[AL14]

There doesn't exist 4 Polos. WRC will be over with them.

[Simmi]

I could see VW rolling out a fourth Polo at GB next year once they've clinched a fourth manufacturer title, Ogier wrapped up the championship a month earlier and Latvala is confirmed for Toyota in 2017.

[AL14]

I could see VW rolling out a fourth Polo at GB next year once they've clinched a fourth manufacturer title, Ogier wrapped up the championship a month earlier and Latvala is confirmed for Toyota in 2017.

This is a cradible scenario, with Lappi in that 4th maybe.

[Sulland]

So if Citroen plan to do something different for 16, will that be to form a Citroen 2 team, as VW has, or will Lefebvre take some asfalt rounds as number 2, instead of Mads?

[skarderud]

Better to disquss here than in News&rumours.

I don't know the current status in Citroën, but it was atleast quite obvious that it was som changes in the team before Australia in some intervju with the teamboss.
The driver that eventually got sacked there, is obvious in Ford.
I hardly see levfebre in a workscar next year, so who's in?

[AL14]

Better to disquss here than in News&rumours.

I don't know the current status in Citroën, but it was atleast quite obvious that it was som changes in the team before Australia in some intervju with the teamboss.
The driver that eventually got sacked there, is obvious in Ford.
I hardly see levfebre in a workscar next year, so who's in?

My guess: Citroen keeps his drivers because there is anything better in the market and say bye bye to all of us at the end of the season.

[skarderud]

My guess: Citroen keeps his drivers because there is anything better in the market and say bye bye to all of us at the end of the season.
Maybe. But then probably Peugeot steps up in the big league again.

[itix]

Maybe. But then probably Peugeot steps up in the big league again.

I really hope so... that would be lovely! Ditch the Dakar and rally cross BS since you suck at it and come back to what you used to be good at :)

[EstWRC]

Better to disquss here than in News&rumours.

I don't know the current status in Citroën, but it was atleast quite obvious that it was som changes in the team before Australia in some intervju with the teamboss.
The driver that eventually got sacked there, is obvious in Ford.
I hardly see levfebre in a workscar next year, so who's in?

Tänak to switch places with Ostberg? :P

[AL14]

Maybe. But then probably Peugeot steps up in the big league again.

Too late to join WRC for 2017. I mean, not for testing and build car (they will have a base with DS3), but there are not even rumors or nothing that could make us speculate about their return. Although it would be great of course.

[Andre Oliveira]

2016 will be more and less the same. Contracts to 2017 with new make will change many seats. I only can see Meeke entering Ford or Neuville place in Hyundai, with the belguim entering on Ford again.

[tommeke_B]

Too late to join WRC for 2017. I mean, not for testing and build car (they will have a base with DS3), but there are not even rumors or nothing that could make us speculate about their return. Although it would be great of course.

Peugeot, DS or Citroën, it's all the same with a different logo.

[WUff1]

Peugeot even didn´t manage to build a reliable R5 car, so forget them.

[Barreis]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121574

[AndyRAC]

You don't decide drivers future on the outcome of one event - you do it over the whole season. Have they both done enough to warrant a seat next year? Once you've answered that you make a decision. Then you see who is available - and willing to join ( or who has the £$£$£$/ sponsorship)

[Rally Power]

My bet/wish for 2016: Meeke goes to Hyundai; Neuville goes to Citroën or Ford just for one season, entering Toyota from 2017; depending on Neuville choice, Kubica gets a seat at Ford or Citroën.

[dodge33cymru]

My bet/wish for 2016: Meeke goes to Hyundai; Neuville goes to Citroën or Ford just for one season, entering Toyota from 2017; depending on Neuville choice, Kubica gets a seat at Ford or Citroën.
Your bookmaker must love you!

[EstWRC]

Story's coming up that M-sport may use Dmacks next year.

[Mariusz]

Hopefully this is not true as these new Fabias would be faster than WRC Fords.

[AL14]

Hopefully this is not true as these new Fabias would be faster than WRC Fords.

Dmacks took a new boss from Pirelli with years of experience, I think it could be a good bet. DMACK could give the money they need for a better driver and if they will deliver good tyres it could become very interesting.
Maybe it is a gambling but they've nothing to lose so..

BTW I hope they keep Tanak. I know that in two season he didn't deliver too much but still, I don't know why, I see something in him, it's like his raw speed could come up and begin to be consistent in any moment. It's more a sensation than a rational thinking but I think it would be good to keep him another year, just to be sure to have not wasted a talent.

[EstWRC]

You are right AL14. In the article there was also that Dmack wants to enter the championship with a current leading WRC team so it could mean they will already enter with M-sport next season (yeah i know M-sport actually isnt a leading team). And if it will be so then one of the drivers will be definetly Tänak because he has got the experience with Dmacks and with a WRC car.


Nice to see that im not the only one who sees something in Tänak. We all know his speed but the question is about consistency but like you said it may come anytime and i think it will come if he gets more experience. His second half this season has actually been quite consistent, he lost a lot of points due to unlucky incidents in the beginning of the season. He and Paddon have had quite a similar season IMO but Paddon gets the praise all the time and Tänak not.

[Mariusz]

Pirelli is not on the same level as Michelin though, so even if DMACK is able to get to Pirelli level Fords would be losing time just because of tires. Most of people tend to simplify things and when they would see Fords at the end of classification they won't go into details and they will just say that Fords are slow. I know it may be about money, but if Malcolm wants to at least pretend that Ford WRC is competitive taking slower tires is not going to help him.

[b3637853]

Yves Matton said that all becomes clear. They will announce the decision in first half of december, Peugeot and Citroen will have more than one program. He said: "If we will stay in WRC we want to fight for victory in 2018-2019.
Regarding drivers: "We will choose drivers in 3 weeks after Rally GB, we think about 3 scenarios and we want to avoid errors. I'm interested in Neuville, he is the only choice for Citroen in 2017."

http://wrc.net.pl/citroen-zostaje

[EstWRC]

i just dont get this Neuville love from everyone....mystical

[bassist]

Yves Matton said that all becomes clear. They will announce the decision in first half of december, Peugeot and Citroen will have more than one program. He said: "If we will stay in WRC we want to fight for victory in 2018-2019.
Regarding drivers: "We will choose drivers in 3 weeks after Rally GB, we think about 3 scenarios and we want to avoid errors. I'm interested in Neuville, he is the only choice for Citroen in 2017."

http://wrc.net.pl/citroen-zostaje

Think he said Neuville is the only `good` choice for 2017, if the interview translated correctly!

[b3637853]

Think he said Neuville is the only `good` choice for 2017, if the interview translated correctly!

Yeap I must have missed it. Anyway for me it's also hard to understand why Neuville? Is he going to be better after 2016 or Matton knows that their 2017 car will suit him? What is it?

[dimviii]

Yeap I must have missed it. Anyway for me it's also hard to understand why Neuville? Is he going to be better after 2016 or Matton knows that their 2017 car will suit him? What is it?

Neuville and Matton are from Belgium.

[bassist]

Yeap I must have missed it. Anyway for me it's also hard to understand why Neuville? Is he going to be better after 2016 or Matton knows that their 2017 car will suit him? What is it?

Seems to me that Neuville is just a `pin up boy`! He just hasnt shown the speed, and Paddon has `rattled` him!

[dimviii]

How do you rate the 2015 season Thierry Neuville?
"Obviously not the level of what was expected of a driver like Thierry, Vice-World Champion in 2014 and winner of a WRC in 2014. The failure to feel supported, that the leaders of Hyundai put their No.1 in danger, did not help. "
What would you do if you were the manager Thierry?
"I would focus on in 2017 to avoid making a wrong career choice again if we are still here in 2017, Thierry interested I would say even more:... In 2017, Citroën is its only good choice"

http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/matton-citroen-seul-bon-choix-pour-neuville-en-2017-563b0d363570bccfaed0ff24

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Full Yves Matton interview (translation):

Yves, do you already know if Citroën WRC will still beyond 2016?
"I have an idea increasingly clear on the issue. It will be announced during the first half of December. But it is certain that Peugeot and Citroen will not have a single official program. This will be the WTCC and WRC regarding us. With the goal of winning. "

So more with the same drivers as this year ...
"(laughs). Kris has won a race ..."

The aim would be to win a race?
"No. But we do not target the title in 2017 if we continue in the WRC with a new car and new regulations. It will be a three-year plan. Our goal is to win more victories in 2017 and win the title in 2018 or 2019. "

Do you have guarantees on the possibility of having a competitive car in 2017 configuration?
"95% of the items that I mean that I'm confident that we could fight to Citroen with a new segment of B."

Have you chosen your drivers for 2016?
"No, but this will be done within three weeks just after the Wales Rally GB. Currently I have three possible scenarios."

Will you keep the same two drivers?
"It is not impossible if we should not stay in the WRC in 2017."

Your drivers have they met your expectations in 2015?
"If I answer that question, I also answer to the previous ... I must therefore abstain."

How do you rate the 2015 season Thierry Neuville?
"Obviously not the level of what was expected of a driver like Thierry, Vice-World Champion in 2014 and winner of a WRC in 2014. The failure to feel supported, that the leaders of Hyundai put their No.1 in danger, did not help. "

What would you do if you were the manager Thierry?
"I would focus on in 2017 to avoid making a wrong career choice again if we are still here in 2017, Thierry interested I would say even more:... In 2017, Citroën is its only good choice"

[RS]

I thought Matton meant that for Neuville Citroen was the only good choice for 2017.

Basically Matton is saying if they are confirmed for 2017 they will not retain both of this year's drivers in 2016.

Citroen are already in WTCC and WRC so a possible scenario is Citroen quitting WRC after 2016 but Peugeot coming in 2017.

[Duvel]

I thought Matton meant that for Neuville Citroen was the only good choice for 2017.

Basically Matton is saying if they are confirmed for 2017 they will not retain both of this year's drivers in 2016.

Citroen are already in WTCC and WRC so a possible scenario is Citroen quitting WRC after 2016 but Peugeot coming in 2017.

Personaly i would like that the most, Peugeot entering WRC again, also whit Neuville on board.
Peolple do forget good results fast, 2013,14, and begin of 2015 season Neuville was one of the Ogier challengers. That speed cant be gone, things havent gon the way he had hoped for him.
If, and when he gets over this, i think he wil be back on top.

[Rally Power]

Full Yves Matton interview (translation):
Yves, do you already know if Citroën WRC will still beyond 2016?
"It will be announced during the first half of December. But it is certain that Peugeot and Citroen will not have a single official program. This will be the WTCC and WRC regarding us."

"It will be announced during the first half of December. But it is certain that Peugeot and Citroen WILL HAVE a single official program. This will be the WTCC OR WRC regarding us."

As it was already knowned, Matton's saying that Cit and Pug will be officially (official means in house programs, in PSA sports tradition) involved into one discipline each.

The interview main interest are Matton's thoughts on the 2017/19 WRC scenario (2017 as a revamp year in order to fight for titles in 18/19); if decision about staying on WRC isn't already made, why should he bother talking about those long term projections?

Hopefully (I was skeptic till now) Citroen will be around for a long time!

[itix]

Personaly i would like that the most, Peugeot entering WRC again, also whit Neuville on board.
Peolple do forget good results fast, 2013,14, and begin of 2015 season Neuville was one of the Ogier challengers. That speed cant be gone, things havent gon the way he had hoped for him.
If, and when he gets over this, i think he wil be back on top.

I would so love that to be true. He was a blast to watch in the old 207 S2000 in the IRC. But since you are called duvel, I'll assume that you're from belgium and that you are biased about his form hahahaha.

I wonder if he will really find it again or if that was a sudden flash of speed like has been seen with other drivers in the past but then couldn't hold it together, like Sordo who showed great promise early on and now is more like a "Get the job done and go home"-type of driver. Also Østberg who almost won rallies in the beginning and now does steady results but never anything spectacular.

[jonkka]

if decision about staying on WRC isn't already made, why should he bother talking about those long term projections?

Because decision will be made by board and Matton has to have all alternatives covered when he goes to board meeting to present the case. They will ask
-what are our alternatives
-what will each alternative cost
-what we will get out of each alternative
-what are specific goals of each these
-what are your plans to achieve those goals

[AL14]

Because decision will be made by board and Matton has to have all alternatives covered when he goes to board meeting to present the case. They will ask
[...]
-what are your plans to achieve those goals

Matton's answer: hiring Thierry Neuville
Board's reply: LOL!

:D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke post-Rally GB:

So that’s the end, then, of the 2015 season. I suppose you’re wanting me to say something about 2016 – but we’ll just have to wait and see about next year. I know I joked at the finish line of the last stage that my garden needs a bit of attention at home, but that’s not a case of me wanting to say nothing; it’s just that at the moment there’s no news. As soon as we have something to report, I’ll be back in touch.
Best regards,
Kris

[Eli]

Meeke post-Rally GB:

So that’s the end, then, of the 2015 season. I suppose you’re wanting me to say something about 2016 – but we’ll just have to wait and see about next year. I know I joked at the finish line of the last stage that my garden needs a bit of attention at home, but that’s not a case of me wanting to say nothing; it’s just that at the moment there’s no news. As soon as we have something to report, I’ll be back in touch.
Best regards,
Kris
I really hope we see him next year, this year he has shown that when he doesn't make mistakes he is able to take the fight to VW with that S***roen which probably hasn't been improved since Loeb years. He now has enough experince (& hopefully next year a bit more luck & consistency) to do so.
Also hoping to see Mads next year in Citroen, has been "Hirvonen" consistent this year, hope he starts to bag wins next year alongside Meeke.

[RS]

Also hoping to see Mads next year in Citroen, has been "Hirvonen" consistent this year, hope he starts to bag wins next year alongside Meeke.

He won't.. he's been around a long time now so unlikely to get much better. He's good at mopping up the points but I don't think he's even on Hirvonen's level to be honest.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT3vrU2U8AIFHEC.png:large

[RS]

I think they will keep Elfyn. If Citroen drop one of their guys they will take them, if not they will stick with Tanak.

[Rallyper]

So time for predictions to be reread in middle of January. Anyone starts? Maybe a points-system as well?

[stefanvv]

Maybe a points-system as well?

what about it? You think 10 points max is better solution, or scoring points each day as in ERC?

[EstWRC]

With Paddon confirmed now i hope Meeke and Tänak will continue, these three put a serious challenge on VW guys this season, Meeke regularly and Paddon and Tänak in Sardinia and Poland respectively. im sure there's more to come from them.

Tänak about his season on facebook and from this it seems he will be in WRC next year:

Im on my way to the airport after a very difficult Rally GB! The rally didn't finish the way that we wanted as I broke the rear wishbone on the first stage today and we had to retire. It was a strange one, I think we clipped a rock on the outside of the line and somehow it caused the damage.
Before that, the weekend had been not bad. We were fourth and the plan was to try and keep ahead of Sordo today. It was a really difficult rally, the road conditions were very tricky, lots of standing water and the grip changing a lot. But we were making good progress.
It's not the way I wanted to end the season but thats the way it goes sometimes. Now we must focus on 2016 and moving forward.

So now is a good time to thank you all for the support during the season, all the messages really does mean a lot to me. We've had some ups like in Poland where we were on a rally leading pace, and some downs where we've retired from good positions. This year also had one of the scariest accidents of my career when we went into the lake in Mexico.

But the progress has been good. For many of the rallies I've been going there for the first time in a WRC car and it takes a little time to perfect everything and fine tune, it's not possible to just push at the start.

So thanks everyone and please continue to support Team Tanak in 2016!!

[dimviii]

why this happened? did Robert said something?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-177-0-90118200-1447624567.jpg

[EightGear]

why this happened? did Robert said something?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-177-0-90118200-1447624567.jpg
My God how pathetic.

That was a French flag in respect to Paris... Good job Photoshop guys, I hope you're proud of yourself.

[dimviii]

My God how pathetic.

That was a French flag in respect to Paris... Good job Photoshop guys, I hope you're proud of yourself.


totally stupid,there is the original photo.

http://images.wrc.com/News/2015/November/7498_tribute-1-shot-wales-2015_445_896x504.jpg

[N.O.T]

why this happened? did Robert said something?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-177-0-90118200-1447624567.jpg

Some low life polish people just photoshoped the French flag... total disrespect of the situation.

[bassist]

Some low life polish people just photoshoped the french flag... total disrespect of the situation.

Disgusting!

[car]

why this happened? did Robert said something?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-177-0-90118200-1447624567.jpg

Why would you even reproduce this photo? No respect.

[AL14]

Was reading Wales post event press conference and Meeke's words about his future underlined a "bit" of haste for his current situation:

Q:
Talking to Yves Matton, you might know about the future soon?

Kris Meeke:
I'm happy he's talking to you… at least he's talking to somebody!


and also...

Q: Marco Giordo (Autosprint, Italy).
Kris, when do you know about your future?

Kris Meeke:
Honestly I have no idea. It's strange to say you haven't spoken to your team boss at this stage of the year, but that's the situation. I hope it becomes clear, but at this stage I have no idea. Maybe I'll go and ride some enduro bikes with Jost…

He has not been too much diplomatic it seems...

[dimviii]

Why would you even reproduce this photo? No respect.

are you talking to me??????

[Andre Oliveira]

Meeke to M-Sport sounds good to all

[bassist]

Meeke to M-Sport sounds good to all

If he takes that option if offered he will be even more frustrated than he has been in 2015!

[WRC1]

i would wish kris get a seat at hyundai, paddon, meeke und the neuville from 2014 could be real rivals for VW

[car]

are you talking to me??????

No... it was intended for whoever manipulated the photo in the first place. Sorry if it came across wrong...

[christy but]

I hope kris stays at citreon.he knows the car inside out

[EstWRC]

so, Meeke and Tänak at Citroen? i wouldn't mind :P

[AL14]

so, Meeke and Tänak at Citroen? i wouldn't mind :P
Getting rid of Meeke to take Tanak is too stupid even for Matton ;)

[EstWRC]

He must get rid of Ostberg not Meeke ;)

[bluuford]

Getting rid of Meeke to take Tanak is too stupid even for Matton ;)

I think Al14 didnt read post correctly. It would be an interesting idea. Speedwise it would mean that Citroen has the fastest drivers behind VW. Stability needs to be improved, however, Meeke has advanced a lot in recent rallies, to be honest, Tänak has done the same. GB was really unfortunate. Even if you look what happened to Ogier on SS1 or Kubica spin or whatever, his recent retirements have been results of very small mistakes (Argentina, hitting stone in wtaresplash, Mexico, small cut and broken suspension resulting in swimming excercise, GB stone) compared to major overdriving he did several years ago.

[AL14]

Sorry didn't get it. :) But he won't do it, even if it would be perfect for Tanak. Yesterday Neuville, in an interview said clearly that m-sport engine is too little and slower than others. Maybe with less effort to set good times Tanak could crash less.

[EstWRC]

i believe Neuville, we have had these stories on estonian forum too and you can see it on onboard comparison with others on wrc plus. With the old Fiesta Tänak was clearly overdriving but with the new car things got better.

About Citroen http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/matton-decision-/page/3004--12-12-.html

[RS]

"It was very interesting what we saw during this rally"....

sounds good for Meeke.

[Wim_Impreza]

He must get rid of Ostberg not Meeke ;)

For the second year in a row Ostberg has more points than Meeke in the final WRC standings. This year Meeke drove one event more than Ostberg.

Ostberg is for sure as good as Meeke and, when you see the final points in 2 seasons as a teammate, is better. Of course Ostberg is not the fastest on asphalt, but there are only a few asphalt rounds in the past years.

[Mariusz]

"It was very interesting what we saw during this rally"....

sounds good for Meeke.
He might have been looking at Lefebvre as well.

[AL14]

For the second year in a row Ostberg has more points than Meeke in the final WRC standings. This year Meeke drove one event more than Ostberg.

Ostberg is for sure as good as Meeke and, when you see the final points in 2 seasons as a teammate, is better. Of course Ostberg is not the fastest on asphalt, but there are only a few asphalt rounds in the past years.
For sure at the moment Ostberg is a better driver than Meeke. Numbers and results can't lie if you look at them in a high number of events. Said that Ostberg is the same driver from years now and Meeke is clearly faster. So if I have to choose from the two I would chose Kris just to have some little hope to bring home a couple of events.
But not Tanak at his team mate :D

[RS]

For the second year in a row Ostberg has more points than Meeke in the final WRC standings. This year Meeke drove one event more than Ostberg.

Ostberg is for sure as good as Meeke and, when you see the final points in 2 seasons as a teammate, is better. Of course Ostberg is not the fastest on asphalt, but there are only a few asphalt rounds in the past years.

He's not the fastest on loose surfaces either but he is reliable and he deserves his place in the WRC. In some ways Meeke and Ostberg compliment each other well. Meeke is clearly faster almost everywhere.

I suppose it depends what Citroen want and what their future will be.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke vs Ostberg... It's like the old saying, 'It's easier to make a fast driver consistent, than a consistent driver fast...'

Ostberg will never win anything for Citroen, Meeke could..

[Simmi]

Agree with RS. The more I think about it Matton and Citroen should look to retain both Meeke and Ostberg.

2017 is a different story but I really don't think there are any better options out there right now heading into next year.

Saying Ostberg is better than Meeke is subjective. In a world where no one is going to get close to Ogier/VW how do you define what makes one better than the other? My personal opinion is that Meeke's performances and promising speed have garnered more attention than anything Ostberg's consistency has led to.

Combining that eye-catching speed of Meeke, plus the solid consistency of Ostberg is a good way to go. I think we've seen all that Mads has to offer as a driver. I don't think we've seen the best of Meeke yet.

[Grundo Farb]

Meeke vs Ostberg... It's like the old saying, 'It's easier to make a fast driver consistent, than a consistent driver fast...'

Ostberg will never win anything for Citroen, Meeke could..

See, now that quote which I have heard so many times I just think keeps getting proved wrong. Give me the name of one fast driver who was inconsistent and has now magically become consistent?

Latvala is fast and inconsistent. Tanak is fast and inconsistent. Kubica is fast and inconsistent.

Ogier was consistent and fast. Loeb was consistent and fast, Hirvonen was consistent and fast, Sordo is/was consistent and fast. Mikelsen is fast and consistent.

And the biggest exception to this, Paddon is consistent and getting faster.

[Mariusz]

Ask Latvala to slow down to Mikkelsen pace and he will be magically more consistent. Ask Mikkelsen to increase pace and to try to match Ogier's in every rally and Mikkelsen will become inconsistent. The thing is, neither of them wants probably change their driving, because Latvala is dreaming to be World Champion and Mikkelsen is comfortable with his 1 min behind to Ogier at the end of any rally.
Also, consistency comes with experience so please don't compare relatively inexperienced drivers like Tanak and Kubica to drivers like Hirvonen and Sordo who have over 10 years of WRC experience, because it just doesn't prove anything.
I'm really looking forward to next season to see what Hayden and Thierry will do. The new i20 won't be slower for sure, so it could be interesting to see how the fight inside the team will help Hyundai start delivering.

[skarderud]

He's not the fastest on loose surfaces either but he is reliable and he deserves his place in the WRC. In some ways Meeke and Ostberg compliment each other well. Meeke is clearly faster almost everywhere.

I suppose it depends what Citroen want and what their future will be.

Regarding Østberg, he has become much faster on tarmac this 2 last years, he was not so bad in Germany and Spain.
On snow, he can challenge for a win, on gravel he can take podiums.
I cant understand why he should not be in wrc.
No, he probably not became a WC, but who's gonna when ogier/vw is around?

[Doon]

Regarding Østberg, he has become much faster on tarmac this 2 last years, he was not so bad in Germany and Spain.
On snow, he can challenge for a win, on gravel he can take podiums.
I cant understand why he should not be in wrc.
No, he probably not became a WC, but who's gonna when ogier/vw is around?

When was the last time he actually challenged for a win on snow? Or any surface for that matter.

[EstWRC]

Ostberg on his facebook, Google translation: There have been many questions to multiple teams and multiple drivers what is the plan for next year. As always, the part card that is held close to the chest. Mads says the following about it: "we have good control and know what we know. More I have not permission to say but; We tune in next year's WRC, with the aim to do better than this year. The plan that dictates that there it is realistic. So can those who want to speculate on what that means ", concludes with a broad smile Mads.

so Meeke doesnt know anything but Mads already looking to next year? From that it seems that Ostberg is going to another team because Citroen havent decided their future yet. Of course it can be the other way that Mads will stay but it sounds weird that they havent talked to Meeke but Mads knows his deal already.

[AL14]

With time I've started to believe that the old saying: "it's better to make a fast driver consistent than the contrary" is just wrong.

Look at the facts.
Latvala finished his events on 2007-8 minutes behind Loeb. Now he can match Ogier speed on almost every rally. His inconstistency on the contrary is still there, maybe improved a bit but not as much as his speed.

Hirvonen has always been consistent and became faster from 2006 to 2009.

Paddon is building his speed as well while his average number of errors in a rally is almost the same.

And it is not only a matter of experience here...

The one that fits in the old saying can be Ogier himself. He was prone to errors but slightly fast just from the beginning and became very much consistent with the time. But he seems more an exception than a rule.

[OldF]

are you talking to me??????

I couldn’t resist.;)

Robert De Niro – Taxi driver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

[stefanvv]

Paddon is building his speed as well while his average number of errors in a rally is almost the same.

May be the case with Paddon is that he began consistently to adapt to the car/or adapt the car to him/perhaps both in the first place. Then naturally the speed slowly but steady came. I believe he was always very fast driver, and if he tried to do the impossible at the beginning, the result would be literally nowhere. Good job by him.

[Karukera]

The heck !?...

K.Meeke " (...) Je ne piloterai plus de Citroën officielle en 2016 mais il reste quelques semaines avant de repartir pour une nouvelle saison et trouver un nouveau volant. "

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Rallye-de-grande-bretagne-pour-kris-meeke-la-victoire-etait-impossible/607993#xtor=RSS-1

[skarderud]

What that part of "flying finn"?

[WUff1]

The heck !?...

K.Meeke " (...) Je ne piloterai plus de Citroën officielle en 2016 mais il reste quelques semaines avant de repartir pour une nouvelle saison et trouver un nouveau volant. "

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Rallye-de-grande-bretagne-pour-kris-meeke-la-victoire-etait-impossible/607993#xtor=RSS-1

So that means he won´t drive for Citroen in 2016 and needs to find a new seat?

[skarderud]

No, that he going to drive a Citroën next year, and something about a "flying finn " If i got i right?

[Karukera]

So that means he won´t drive for Citroen in 2016 and needs to find a new seat?

Yes but suspicious as for now looks like only appeared from this media, even though usually reliable.

[EstWRC]

so which is it then, driving or not driving? Ostbergs father was seen a lot in a m-sport garage so i got a feeling that Mads is going to m-sport.

[EightGear]

No, that he going to drive a Citroën next year, and something about a "flying finn " If i got i right?
No, 'I won't be driving an official Citroen next year but there is still some time to find a seat.'

[EstWRC]

if i put it into google translate then i get this: " I will be driving more official Citroën in 2016 but it remains a few weeks before leaving for a new season and find a new steering wheel. "


lol

[AL14]

I think it is a mistake by the writer. The sentence should be: "I don't know if I will be driving a Citroen...."

[skarderud]

so which is it then, driving or not driving? Ostbergs father was seen a lot in a m-sport garage so i got a feeling that Mads is going to m-sport.
Adapta is M-sports businesspartner in Norway.

[skarderud]

No, 'I won't be driving an official Citroen next year but there is still some time to find a seat.'
My french is not that good:)

[EstWRC]

Tänak http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/tanak-uncertain-of-2016-plans/page/3005--12-12-.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The saying 'It's easier to make a fast driver consistent, than a consistent driver fast...' came from the days of McRae I believe. I'm not exactly sure who said it, but it was one of the team bosses or ex-drivers.

They were arguing that if you have a super-fast driver going at 110% of the ideal speed, it's easier to get him to knock off 10% off his speed, than it was to add the final 10% of the driver who was always at 90%...

Like a lot of things in life, real speed is something you either have or you dont, it's not something that can be learned...

[WUff1]

No, 'I won't be driving an official Citroen next year but there is still some time to find a seat.'

EightGear is right, as far as I remember from French at school.

"Je ne piloterai plus" means "I don´t drive anymore". Google Translate is completely wrong here and says the contrary.

[sollitt]

May be the case with Paddon is that he began consistently to adapt to the car/or adapt the car to him/perhaps both in the first place. Then naturally the speed slowly but steady came. I believe he was always very fast driver, and if he tried to do the impossible at the beginning, the result would be literally nowhere. Good job by him.Spot on. Make no mistake. Paddon is fast. He is clearly playing a waiting game, building a profile and delivering what has been asked of him until such time as he is in a competitive car and able go for broke unimpeded.

[sollitt]

The saying 'It's easier to make a fast driver consistent, than a consistent driver fast...' came from the days of McRae I believe. I'm not exactly sure who said it, but it was one of the team bosses or ex-drivers. ... This saying has been bandied around rallying circles since long before McRae was a twinkle in Jimmy's eye. And it's not supported by any facts.
In fact the history books suggest that more titles have been won by drivers who might be considered "consistent" than by those who would be considered the fastest.

[AL14]

Just analyse facts. That saying is wrong. You can find a lot of drivers that bacame faster and very few that became consistent. Of course it's easy for a fast driver to slow down and not make errors but in that case you gain consistence sacrifing speed which is useless cause you would not win events anyway...

[wia5958]

Vatanen was a fast driver who had to become more consistant as was makinen mcrae all through history there are consistent drivers who had to get fast and fast drivers who had to get consistent it no doubt all balances itself out. But in the arguement of meeke and ostberg i would rather have a driver that some day u may need to be on the ragged edge and just over it to win a championship than a driver that will never reach the ragged edge and u lose the championship

[Toyoda]

Vatanen was a fast driver who had to become more consistant as was makinen mcrae all through history there are consistent drivers who had to get fast and fast drivers who had to get consistent it no doubt all balances itself out. But in the arguement of meeke and ostberg i would rather have a driver that some day u may need to be on the ragged edge and just over it to win a championship than a driver that will never reach the ragged edge and u lose the championship

I think Loeb and Ogier have raised the level of consistency to a new level entirely. Look at the amount of DNF's Mcrae and Solberg had, then another level up in consistency Grohlem and Makinen and Hirovnen?. Then Lube and Ogier's level are Super Saiyan. "For sure"

[WUff1]

So maybe both Meeke and Ostberg away from Citroen, and Citroen doing only some 6-8 rallies in their farewell year? With Lefebvre and some other young driver?

[AL14]

Is it a solid news or just rumor?

[Nornbugger]

Vatanen was a fast driver who had to become more consistant as was makinen mcrae all through history there are consistent drivers who had to get fast and fast drivers who had to get consistent it no doubt all balances itself out. But in the arguement of meeke and ostberg i would rather have a driver that some day u may need to be on the ragged edge and just over it to win a championship than a driver that will never reach the ragged edge and u lose the championship

Vatanen never really became consistent until after when he was fast, McRae never became consistent, what he achieved results wise given his equipment to hand was about 2/3 what Loeb or Ogier would have done with it(IMHO) He did however win a huge and fanatical following.
Makinen did improve his consistency while holding his speed.

And as for Ostberg, I think members on here would rate him higher if he'd been lucky enough to get a VW seat

[GigiGalliNo1]

As posted in News thread, Matton stated Citroen might only do 6 to 8 rounds in 2016. Perhaps someone like Kronos as they did with the Xsara back in the day, support the Citroen team until Citroen Racing come back with a new car... Alas C4.

[AL14]

As posted in News thread, Matton stated Citroen might only do 6 to 8 rounds in 2016. Perhaps someone like Kronos as they did with the Xsara back in the day, support the Citroen team until Citroen Racing come back with a new car... Alas C4.

Can you please link the source?

[GigiGalliNo1]

MNews latest issue.

[Eli]

As posted in News thread, Matton stated Citroen might only do 6 to 8 rounds in 2016. Perhaps someone like Kronos as they did with the Xsara back in the day, support the Citroen team until Citroen Racing come back with a new car... Alas C4.

yeah I was just gonna say they should do the same thing they did back in 2006 and run as a semi-private team for all of the 14 rounds..hopefully returning afterwards in 2017.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn Evans and Ott Tanak could share 2016 M-Sport WRC Ford seat !

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121855/evans-tanak-could-share-2016-seat

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

As posted in News thread, Matton stated Citroen might only do 6 to 8 rounds in 2016. Perhaps someone like Kronos as they did with the Xsara back in the day, support the Citroen team until Citroen Racing come back with a new car... Alas C4.
PH Sport & 2nd gen DS3 perhaps..?

[French_Paulo]

EightGear is right, as far as I remember from French at school.

"Je ne piloterai plus" means "I don´t drive anymore". Google Translate is completely wrong here and says the contrary.

Yes that's it ;)

But it's maybe a mistake from the writer.

[AL14]

Ok there are two reasons why the can chose that program: or they're going to leave and will save money for something else or they're going to stay and they're saving money, time and effort to develop the new car and their future in the sport.

The questions about drivers lineup and 2017 presence remains unanswered. Let's wait till something official will come up.

[Karukera]

Elfyn Evans and Ott Tanak could share 2016 M-Sport WRC Ford seat !

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121855/evans-tanak-could-share-2016-seat


Evans states in the interview "Look at last year, they [i guess Polo] were finishing stages 15 seconds ahead of any other car and it's quite clear Citroen has made a step."

Step ? it didn't show in Ostberg's pace. Steps if any are Meeke's.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Elfyn Evans and Ott Tanak could share 2016 M-Sport WRC Ford seat !

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121855/evans-tanak-could-share-2016-seat

It would be pretty reasonable I guess.

[Rallyper]

So Meeke or Ostberg in #1 MSport Fiesta 2016?

[French_Paulo]

So Meeke or Ostberg in #1 MSport Fiesta 2016?


Ostberg for the championship ! Meeke for the show and the speed... What is better for M-Sport ?

[AL14]

It would be pretty reasonable I guess.
I don't. What will they do? Evans for tarmac and Tanak for gravel? So that the two lose another year to learn how to drive in their worst surface? They've driven there for two years each. It is enough to chose who deserve another chance and who don't, so that he will get full support and not half of it.

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe ERC / WRC programm to Tänak and Evans ;) or BRC

[Duvel]

Would like to see Meeke in the Fiesta, could be really good combination. Then tanak in the second car would be the best combo i think.
Evans could possibly do some loose rounds in WRC.
Citroen semi private team,.. Then i think Ostberg will be there, together whit lefebvre.
Whats the latest roumors on Kubica? I hope he will be there whit a citroen.

[Eli]

So Meeke or Ostberg in #1 MSport Fiesta 2016?

you mean #7 MSport Fiesta 2016 ;)

[Mintexmemory]

you mean #7 MSport Fiesta 2016 ;)

and most likely Ostberg as Meeke can't pay for a drive

[CWJ]

Meeke for the show and the speed... What is better for M-Sport ?

I doubt since they dont even talk to each other.

[dimviii]

I doubt since they dont even talk to each other.

really? whats the reason?

[SubaruNorway]

I think Kubica deserves a chance, here are some stats after Wales.
He was 7 times fastest Ford and 2 times faster than one of them. Not sure what technical difficulties he had but something on Saturday
made him a bit slower for a few stages, without that he could have outdone the official cars on more than half the stages!

[Sulland]

I think Kubica deserves a chance, here are some stats after Wales.
He was 7 times fastest Ford and 2 times faster than one of them. Not sure what technical difficulties he had but something on Saturday
made him a bit slower for a few stages, without that he could have outdone the official cars on more than half the stages!

And that is really impressive looking at his right arm. Very stiff and must be a real hinder for him.
One should think he would be less influenced by that in racing.

[wia5958]

Meekes comment about riding enduros with jost could hint at a second vw motorsport 2 car

[Mariusz]

I think Kubica deserves a chance, here are some stats after Wales.
He was 7 times fastest Ford and 2 times faster than one of them. Not sure what technical difficulties he had but something on Saturday
made him a bit slower for a few stages, without that he could have outdone the official cars on more than half the stages!
Front diff issue, it started to appear around SS10
SS10 - he noticed rear tires were getting overheated, he changed/rotated both after this SS
SS12 - excessive rear tires wear and a flat tire 5 km before stage end
SS13 - rear drive only

[dimviii]

any news?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUMjvPyVAAAwvZJ.png:large

[maciotacio]

So far no. If he improve his privite team then maybe we will see him in few events or if he collects more money he will drive DS3 with PH Sport. After GB Robert said that he has done 5 different proffesions this year and driving has been on the last place. Generally this season was a mess after breakout with A-Style in Argentina.

[Bartek]

Nothing new in this article, the title is if RK quit WRC this will hurt everybody in WRC.

[paba]

not hurt but make the power of WRC series weaker

[RS]

I don't get the impression Kubica was too happy with MSport/Ford so maybe fewer rounds but in a PHSport Citroen would be best.

[maciotacio]

There is the article which dimviii metioned. Some interesting thoughts from journalists around the Europe. Google translate can handle it reasonably well. Just for the record Stallion is Ogier in our language :D
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.przegladsportowy.pl%2Fmotosport y%2Frajdy%2Ceksperci-odejscie-kubicy-oslabi-wrc%2Cartykul%2C622748%2C1%2C352.html&edit-text=&act=url

[christy but]

I would not bee too surprised if we see craig breen in a wrc car next year..just my taughts

[Bartek]

https://twitter.com/MattJelonek/status/667698104095805441 source is not' confirmed, I don't know who he is but my friend sent me this tweet