Barum Czech Rally Zlín 2015 [ERC, ERCJ, CZE]

[Mirek]

Funny moment from production cars...

Březík and Štajf have totally same time in the finish. According to the rules the winner is the one who was faster on SS1 but what a coincidence, they have again same time there! :D So in the end Březík was classified ahead as he was faster on SS2.

[Plhus]

Cyprus without Pech...

[Mirek]

Why they decided to skip it?

[Plhus]

Mini is sold...

[Mirek]

Aha, thanks

[Plhus]

Nemáš za co :D

[mousti]

Kobus was delighted after Barum, they had a great time testing their Fabia R5. Lots of new things they know now. They also got a new evolution of Kumho tyres. Though they had some issues with the Pop Off valve it went open a bit too early.

[Sulland]

Mini is sold...

Can we anticipate a new Fabia R5 for him?

[dimviii]

excellent video,max attack!
https://youtu.be/ZNAiBaEwpEU

watch the pass of Weigand at the Consanis corner,much deeper than enyone else completely into the grass/gravel,and car not moved at all.

[EightGear]

Can we anticipate a new Fabia R5 for him?
No plans are for RGT cup I believe.

[Mirek]

Exactly, Pech shall drive Porsche 997 GT3 RS in next R-GT cup.

[dimviii]

Exactly, Pech shall drive Porsche 997 GT3 RS in next R-GT cup.

dont like it.Czech competition lost a valuable driver.

[Mirek]

Another nice video including a lot of shots from second run of Consani's place and one of my favourite places of Slušovice stage (first shot with Kopecký): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWsrrF1SaIs

There is the moment of Adielsson which I wrote about. Now I can see he had a puncture. I couldn't see into this corner from my place but I could hear it.

[Jarek Z]

dont like it.Czech competition lost a valuable driver.

I agree. What a waste of potential!

[stefanvv]

watch the pass of Weigand at the Consanis corner,much deeper than enyone else completely into the grass/gravel,and car not moved at all.

Lukyanuk also looked amazingly smooth there, though no big cut from him. I guess he didn't panic or something?!?

[Mirek]

Guys, what You can't see on these videos is that it's possible to jump on the crest. You can see that only if You stand just next to the top of the crest watching from side as the car gets maximum 20 cm in the air. That's where most of the difference goes from. If You jump You land into a compression on a very bumpy road at 150-160 km/h. Depending on the line and entry speed You may jump or not. It's a tricky place.

[RS]

Mini is sold...

Maybe why he didn't try and attack Kopecky on day two.

[dimviii]

Lukyanuk also looked amazingly smooth there, though no big cut from him. I guess he didn't panic or something?!?

road is not same at all the width.Plenty of times we ve see that some centimeters can cause problems.A little different line and maybe you can pass or crash.
Thats why i wrote about Wiegands pass.All the car at grass/gravel, deeper than anybody else, and safe pass with not moving at all.

[Mirek]

ERC onboards are already online on Mediasport but not yet available abroad like every year.

There are some from non-ERC registered drivers available abroad if You are interested: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy.html

If You find some Czech proxy server You may see them all.

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/28/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_050_392838_55e46d37c.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/28/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_115_392840_55e46d380.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/29/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_137_392955_55e46d3e2.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/29/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_090_392983_55e46d404.jpg

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/29/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_083_392995_55e46d408.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/30/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_106_393079_55e46d456.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/31/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_103_393101_55e46d467.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/30/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_125_393041_55e46d43b.jpg

[Mirek]

I can see that Ingram had countless moments. I personally saw two, this is third and that's for sure not all. The crash seems to have been inevitable.

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/31/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_078_393175_55e46d4a4.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/31/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_070_393181_55e46d4ad.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/31/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_067_393179_55e46d4ab.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/32/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_057_393221_55e46d4d2.jpg

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/32/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_052_393223_55e46d4d4.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/32/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_046_393241_55e46d4e1.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/38/70/Barum_Rallye_JU_2015_039_387088_55e0625c1.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/39/29/Barum_Rallye_2015_JU_098_392939_55e46d3d8.jpg

[dimviii]

lolol

https://www.facebook.com/231016690326701/videos/vb.231016690326701/870700093025021/?type=2&theater



https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10364015_1057817807564071_6821297518895001475_n.jp g?oh=eb2b7282e24e0a999b972c7988c6670f&oe=567D663C

[CivEngine]

I can see that Ingram had countless moments. I personally saw two, this is third and that's for sure not all. The crash seems to have been inevitable.

Absolutely. When you are flirting over the limits or trying too hard the most probable thing is to finish out of the race. We've seen it many times. But it's part of the game and these drivers, at some point, make things interesting!

[WUff1]

dont like it.Czech competition lost a valuable driver.

Very good work of Pech and his team in the last 4 years dealing with this car!

[stefanvv]

road is not same at all the width.Plenty of times we ve see that some centimeters can cause problems.A little different line and maybe you can pass or crash.
Thats why i wrote about Wiegands pass.All the car at grass/gravel, deeper than anybody else, and safe pass with not moving at all.

hmmm may be, but from all cars I've seen in this place only Consani's Citroen was behaving like a "brick" thrown there.....

[dimviii]

hmmm may be, but from all cars I've seen in this place only Consani's Citroen was behaving like a "brick" thrown there.....

yes wrong geometry.lol

[stefanvv]

yes wrong geometry.lol

I said may be, I'm not the designer of it so can't know..... There are various factors for this.....

[Mirek]

hmmm may be, but from all cars I've seen in this place only Consani's Citroen was behaving like a "brick" thrown there.....

Stefan, please read my explanation few posts back. The key to understand the place is that in some case You can jump on those place (just very low but very high speed jump). In that case You land into a strong compression on a very bad asphalt. It's very strange place. Some cars jump, some not but sometimes You can't see any difference in speed or their lines as the differences are so small that You can't notice them by men's eyes.

I spoke with Pavel Dresler about the place and they were very surprised how much it kicked them. They admited it was a really big moment for them as well but they didn't expect it at all. And that's a crew which drove through the place already many times.

[Sulland]

Exactly, Pech shall drive Porsche 997 GT3 RS in next R-GT cup.

Coool!😄

[stefanvv]

Stefan, please read my explanation few posts back. The key to understand the place is that in some case You can jump on those place (just very low but very high speed jump). In that case You land into a strong compression on a very bad asphalt. It's very strange place. Some cars jump, some not but sometimes You can't see any difference in speed or their lines as the differences are so small that You can't notice them by men's eyes.

I spoke with Pavel Dresler about the place and they were very surprised how much it kicked them. They admited it was a really big moment for them as well but they didn't expect it at all. And that's a crew which drove through the place already many times.

Yes I already read Your comment and liked it. It is just that some drivers were also caught by a surprise but handled it none the less, their cars as well, while Consani just couldn't do anything about it. May be his speed was too high, may be he did the wrong correction, may be he felt the worst place of all possible millimetres on that spot. It is just his car behaviour that puzzled me that's all. And I noticed that in DS3 WRC car on some occasions. Their suspension looks just not that "flexible" enough. I don't really know what is it, travel, geometry, or stiffness, it is just so distinct from other WRC/S2000 cars.

[Mirek]

Generally suspension travel of DS3 R5 is a lot smaller than of Fabia R5 but even Fabia of Kopecký was on bump stops. Of course it could play a role but I don't think we can find a real reason on forum.

[Ucci]

dont like it.Czech competition lost a valuable driver.

Hey, why lost? After all he will drive Porsche!! Which can be in his hands even faster than old Mini.....don't be dissapointent, Pech will be a pleasant surprise in RGT.

[stefanvv]

Pech will be a pleasant surprise in RGT.

I think so too.

[dimviii]

Hey, why lost? After all he will drive Porsche!! Which can be in his hands even faster than old Mini.....don't be dissapointent, Pech will be a pleasant surprise in RGT.

not at all.He will loose from slower drivers with proper rally cars,like we ve seen with Dumas Delecour Duez etc
really cant understand all this with ''porsches'' at rallies.
You really like to watch a 911 gt3 to be slower from a ds3 r3t?
you like the way its cornering or braking?
these cars are not for stages.If you want to see ''porsches'' go to circuits,where they belong and perform excellent.

[Mirek]

Exactly. There is nothing to prove with the Porsche. Dumas has 390 Hp 4.0 engine, 7-speed sequential gearbox, traction control and he is still way slower than R5 cars. Pech shall have similar (maybe even same) car but he will compete against two other drivers. It's nice that he will finally go out in Europe but he can do exactly nothing here in CZ with Porsche aside of making some fun for spectators (with the TC it's not really fun to watch anyway). The times when Kopecký, Pech and Kresta fought for every second are gone. First we lost Kresta who ended career and now we lost Pech as well.

[Jarek Z]

Hey, why lost?

Because Vaclav Pech is a great driver. And RGT is some strange cup for old bored pensioners. Is it not too early for Pech to retire?

[stefanvv]

not at all.He will loose from slower drivers with proper rally cars,like we ve seen with Dumas Delecour Duez etc
really cant understand all this with ''porsches'' at rallies.
You really like to watch a 911 gt3 to be slower from a ds3 r3t?
you like the way its cornering or braking?
these cars are not for stages.If you want to see ''porsches'' go to circuits,where they belong and perform excellent.

yes, I do. RGT cars are closer to the good old day Group B cars in some way than any of other classes. Some weird way, but still closer. Sound, power, etc. it is most of what Rally should be aiming for I thing. And strange enough the bad handling is inherited too.....

[dimviii]

yes, I do. RGT cars are closer to the good old day Group B cars in some way than any of other classes. Some weird way, but still closer. Sound, power, etc. it is most of what Rally should be aiming for I thing. And strange enough the bad handling is inherited too.....

lol

[stefanvv]

lol

ok

[Mirek]

yes, I do. RGT cars are closer to the good old day Group B cars in some way than any of other classes. Some weird way, but still closer. Sound, power, etc. it is most of what Rally should be aiming for I thing. And strange enough the bad handling is inherited too.....

It's exactly opposite. R-GT cars are kind of gr.N cars. R5 and especially WRC are a lot closer to the gr.B rules than any R-GT.

[stefanvv]

It's exactly opposite. R-GT cars are kind of gr.N cars. R5 and especially WRC are a lot closer to the gr.B rules than any R-GT.No they're not, the rules are quite strict for current classes. But stock GT cars can give You the impression for more freedom as in Group B.

[Mirek]

Come on...

Porsche 997 R-GT is let's say 80% stock Porsche 997 GT3 RS. Fabia R5 is let's say 10% stock Fabia and Polo WRC is let's say 5% stock Polo. R-GT rules have nothing to do with gr.B rules. They are just selected points which can be modified on the stock car like on any gr.N car. On the other hand WRC and also R5 are purely purpose built rally cars like gr.B cars were (the 250 pieces of a homologation series was a joke anyway).

[stefanvv]

Come on...

Porsche 997 R-GT is let's say 80% stock Porsche 997 GT3 RS. Fabia R5 is let's say 10% stock Fabia and Polo WRC is let's say 5% stock Polo. R-GT rules have nothing to do with gr.B rules. They are just selected points which can be modified on the stock car like on any gr.N car. On the other hand WRC and also R5 are purely purpose built rally cars like gr.B cars were (the 250 pieces of a homologation series was a joke anyway).

Yes I know current WRC cars are road cars on "lots of steroids", and R-GTs are just a shadow of the "real" GT productions cars adapted somehow to rally conditions. I was more speaking about the impressions each one gives You about the technical capalities, and providing also driver's abilities. We can agree R-GT cars are more difficult to handle than regular rally cars, don't we? They also are quite impressing in showing up, no matter of the real speed actually.... Of course if Rally continued in Groups B way, it would be quite a disaster as it became to be......

[Andre Oliveira]

R-GT actually do gravel? NO -> No rally cars ;)

[N.O.T]

ignorance is a blessing.

[stefanvv]

R-GT actually do gravel? NO -> No rally cars ;)

they could, but they don't. So, who cares?

[stefanvv]

Yes it is n.o.t. Looks like comments of the Rally were somewhat boring and I realized we're waaaaaay off topic. Thank You for remind me that..... Some really nice pictures though posted by dimviiii , and nice Rally comments by Mirek, thanks to them.

[CivEngine]

Up to this point I must comment that GT cars can be pretty impressive if driven by good hands. For example, here in Spain we have a legion of Porsches and when they have fighted with R5 cars they won. Obviously the specs are not R-GT nor FIA.

[Mirek]

Great places :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK8Qv0fLTQc

[Mirek]

Spectacular spin of Neubauer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yE-Dr9Z_ZY

[Jarek Z]

What a strange corner it was!
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/videos/2015/barum-rallye/barum-special-corner/

[Mirek]

Jarek, check this video from last year. They came from the other side but the result was same ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgTLd17C6Vw

[denkimi]

Come on...

Porsche 997 R-GT is let's say 80% stock Porsche 997 GT3 RS. Fabia R5 is let's say 10% stock Fabia and Polo WRC is let's say 5% stock Polo. R-GT rules have nothing to do with gr.B rules. They are just selected points which can be modified on the stock car like on any gr.N car. On the other hand WRC and also R5 are purely purpose built rally cars like gr.B cars were (the 250 pieces of a homologation series was a joke anyway).
it's not about the technical side, its about the driving.

porsches have huge power but awful handling. you have to fight them to go fast, they don't drive on rails like r5 or wrc cars.

[Mirek]

Sorry but I don't understand such point of view. The gr.B cars were best possible machines of the time with nothing common with stock production. They had bad handling for 2015 standards but they were the very best available in 1980'. The stock cars of 1980' had even a lot worse handling so what? R-GT cars have totally nothing in common with gr.B, they are just gr.N cars made of strong RWD. That's all.

Besides that they go a lot less sideways than WRC cars. I have watched 10 stages and shakedown in Ypres and I haven't seen a single drift from Romain Dumas. I have seen a lot of high speed drifts from those S2000 and R5 cars who shall drive like on rails... I'm not sure if You saw the cars live on stages but there's not much spectacular about them unless You spectate only 1st gear corners. I really don't understand the hype.

[Mirek]

Another nice video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExsvJo2_At0

[stefanvv]

Sorry but I don't understand such point of view. The gr.B cars were best possible machines of the time with nothing common with stock production. They had bad handling for 2015 standards but they were the very best available in 1980'. The stock cars of 1980' had even a lot worse handling so what? R-GT cars have totally nothing in common with gr.B, they are just gr.N cars made of strong RWD. That's all.

Besides that they go a lot less sideways than WRC cars. I have watched 10 stages and shakedown in Ypres and I haven't seen a single drift from Romain Dumas. I have seen a lot of high speed drifts from those S2000 and R5 cars who shall drive like on rails... I'm not sure if You saw the cars live on stages but there's not much spectacular about them unless You spectate only 1st gear corners. I really don't understand the hype.

The point is the whole package - car + driver, and of course the "big bang" so to speak. Gr. B are as difficult to drive as current R-GT, while WRC/R5 are more easy. Generally I was just kidding, though there were some true in my comments that I prefer R-GT cars over all other 2WD classes, even not always faster.

[Mirek]

Maybe interesting for some of You...

A look into the results of sole second leg. It's clear some were already cruising but some still had a lot to fight for.

The fastest driver of the second leg was Lukyanuk despite Kajto and Pech having a big fight. That's for sure very interesting. Kajto was second, Pech third and Kopecký fourth (in a visible cruise mode). Fifth was Tarabus who managed to finish the leg ahead of Breen who was trying to fight back.

And... according to the press release of Tarabus the reason for retirement was not enough fuel! They say there was a faulty gauge due to which they took less fuel than they needed...

[Mariusz]

Kajto's car had an issue with a cut-off valve starting on SS14 which is where he lost his Leg2 lead.

[Mirek]

Another interesting thing. During the scrutineering FIA stewards moved onboard cameras on many cars. It was said to be a result of Bertelli's crash in Portugal where he hit a camera by his head. There was a lot of discussion about the incident before and now at least now we know that something happened there.

[dimviii]

about Consanis corner,watched all videos so far,i understood that there is a bump at the racing line at the front left wheel.
The cars that dont move at all at this corner were Weigand who cut very deep,and Lukyanuk who almost didnt cut at all and tried to stay at asphalt.

[tommeke_B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImIdY4spCYU

[dimviii]

slow motion of Consanis roll.As the car hit the bump he was already off gas.For sure that helped the roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0F8GyAR86A

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/barum_czech_rally_zlin_2015/gry_87.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/barum_czech_rally_zlin_2015/gry_89.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/barum_czech_rally_zlin_2015/gry_111.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/barum_czech_rally_zlin_2015/gry_4.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=20143&fotograf=373

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImIdY4spCYU

nice drive from Lukyanuk at this video.Impressive for his 3rd asphalt rally.

[Ucci]

Because Vaclav Pech is a great driver. And RGT is some strange cup for old bored pensioners. Is it not too early for Pech to retire?

this is an insult for Zeltner, Dobberkau, Vallejo, Dumas..and yes, even Pech....
Belive me, if you want to drive like those men, it is not a "pensioner" way of driving...requiers biiiiiggg balls....R5/S2000 is a sunday drive compare to RWD in P911.....

[Jarek Z]

this is an insult for Zeltner, Dobberkau, Vallejo, Dumas..and yes, even Pech....
Belive me, if you want to drive like those men, it is not a "pensioner" way of driving...requiers biiiiiggg balls....R5/S2000 is a sunday drive compare to RWD in P911.....

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean to insult anybody. I have great respect for Delecour, Snijers, Duez and other RGT drivers, but let's be honest - they are all 50-60 year-old drivers from the past, who are now enjoying their free time in a rally car. There is almost no competition in RGT Cup. You come 10 minutes behind the leader and still collect points for the second place :) Is it really something for Vaclav Pech?

[Mirek]

It seems that the reasons for both Fabia R5 retirements were a kind of bitter commedy. One ran out of fuel and the other one needed only a reset of ECU. Take the second information easy. It's not confirmed, just a rumor.

[Ucci]

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean to insult anybody. I have great respect for Delecour, Snijers, Duez and other RGT drivers, but let's be honest - they are all 50-60 year-old drivers from the past, who are now enjoying their free time in a rally car. There is almost no competition in RGT Cup. You come 10 minutes behind the leader and still collect points for the second place :) Is it really something for Vaclav Pech?

Excatley for this reason you (we) should welcome the entry of Vaclav into this class. You remember last year-MC-first entry in RGT by Duez in old 996? This year there are already Dele and Dumas...next season Vaclav will join...you should think positive!
But enough of RGT in this topic. It is about Barum.

[PLuto]

Shame about Consani, he was looking a bit better this weekend.

I hope they give crews after him a notional time.

Kajto and Pech received notional times. We were checking their times by GPS on place before slowing down, so they have received +- correct time comparing to rivals.

[PLuto]

On the one hand you are right that Breen should be faster than Kostka. But on the other hand, Kostka was born in Zlin, knows the stages by heart, competed in this rally 10 times and has a great car.

I should also notice that Craig was not in good form this year. This was not same Craig like in his previous starts...

[PLuto]

Rally-live radio doesn´t cover SS13 shouldn´t necessarily mean times are not covered as well, should it?

We are transferring times from stages by more professional way than rally radio ;)

[PLuto]

He needs to get to WRC2 as fast as possible imho!

No. For Bergkvist should be better to stay in ERC with R5 car.

[PLuto]

If he can get an R5 then going for the full ERC title might not be a bad move on rallies he knows.

Does anyone know what Emil's actual prize is for winning Junior ERC?

Start with R5 car on Rallye du Valais.

[PLuto]

Time to say goodbye to Sepp Wiegand? Barum Rally seems to be the end of his carrier for me... Impressive drive of Emil Bergkvist indeed. On his homepage something like a "fan club" is mentioned where you can sponsor Emil "on his road to World Cup 2016". I hope that he will get the budget for a R5 in ERC or WRC2 - maybe with Skoda when Esapekka Lappi gets a contract with Toyota? Or with Peugeot, because I can´t see any progress from Craig Breen?

Esapekka will stay at VW...

[PLuto]

Up to this point I must comment that GT cars can be pretty impressive if driven by good hands. For example, here in Spain we have a legion of Porsches and when they have fighted with R5 cars they won. Obviously the specs are not R-GT nor FIA.

Come on, Porsches in Spain are completely different level. Bastard cars without any regular homologation. Team of Vallejo was making own development and local regulations were adapted to this development. And this really ruined the rallysport in Spain (local dealers lost interest of the rallysport, no chance for young driver to rise)...

[PLuto]

Hey, why lost? After all he will drive Porsche!! Which can be in his hands even faster than old Mini.....don't be dissapointent, Pech will be a pleasant surprise in RGT.

I am not happy with Pech in Porsche. And I think that he will not be happy too. I think that this project will not suit him. Until now he was doing rallysport on highest level, all the time fighting with best drivers for the win. But in RGT cup it will be only suffering without real motivation. And I think that car will not suit him...

[PLuto]

#Peugeot UK's @1ChrisIngram & @moreaugabin taken to hospital following crash on SS10 at @FIAERC @BarumRally, both are okay. More to follow.


hope everything is ok.

I am really happy that our GPS system is really working and we had all useful informations in time to send ambulance and rescue system immediatelly. We have received information from GPS that car crashed 3 seconds after accident. Then somebody from the car was calling the emergency by GPS (but Chris and Gabin dont remember it) and also next car (Klausz-Kecskemeti) were calling for emergency. But in that time ambulance and rescue system were on the road.

[Rally Power]

Come on, Porsches in Spain are completely different level. Bastard cars without any regular homologation. Team of Vallejo was making own development and local regulations were adapted to this development. And this really ruined the rallysport in Spain (local dealers lost interest of the rallysport, no chance for young driver to rise)...

I wouldn't say it ruined but for sure the spanish championship has become a sort of 911 trophy...these cars are 2010/2012 3.8 units, used in the Porsche racing cups around the world, adapted to rally without any major restriction. They cost as much as an used top Evo X and are cheaper to maintain than a S2000/R5. Fontes drove one in Portugal and was 0.5s/km faster than S2000 and R5 rivals. FIA was more wise limiting GT cars by their RGT regs, otherwise 911 would be the dominant force on tarmac rallies at the ERC.

Btw, nice photos, videos and comments on the Barum. No doubt Czech fans has hight levels of rally passion and knowledge.

[CivEngine]

Come on, Porsches in Spain are completely different level. Bastard cars without any regular homologation. Team of Vallejo was making own development and local regulations were adapted to this development. And this really ruined the rallysport in Spain (local dealers lost interest of the rallysport, no chance for young driver to rise)...

I know the situation good enough. Despite of it, if we restrict this debate to the spectacularity of GT cars I only have said that Vallejo, Fuster, Ares or even Lemes with a Porsche in their hands are worth to see!

I share every single word about how RFEDA (Spain's federation) ruined the championship accepting such incredible changes in regulations.

[Mirek]

FIA was more wise limiting GT cars by their RGT regs, otherwise 911 would be the dominant force on tarmac rallies at the ERC.

I think that ERC asphalt events are quite specific and none of them suits Porsches that much, even in Spanish level. Circuit of Ireland is usually dirty, often wet, very narrow with stripes of grass in the middle of the road. Ypres is narrow with a lot of cuts where GTs lack suspension travel and even faster Belgian national cars were unable to be on S2000 level in the past. Barum is super bumpy and often very dirty and finally Valais mix asphalt with gravel. I am quite sure that no GT car even Spanish one would become dominant in ERC. Also don't forget that Spanish GTs weren't able to defeat S2000 cars during IRC/ERC editions of Canarias.

And the final point is that ERC is championship and as such it has large number of gravel events. For that reason solely the GT cars will never be dominant there no matter how fast they are.

[CivEngine]

I think that ERC asphalt events are quite specific and none of them suits Porsches that much, even in Spanish level. Circuit of Ireland is usually dirty, often wet, very narrow with stripes of grass in the middle of the road. Ypres is narrow with a lot of cuts where GTs lack suspension travel and even faster Belgian national cars were unable to be on S2000 level in the past. Barum is super bumpy and often very dirty and finally Valais mix asphalt with gravel. I am quite sure that no GT car even Spanish one would become dominant in ERC. Also don't forget that Spanish GTs weren't able to defeat

We just have to remember the past editions of IRC Rally Islas Canarias where the IRC regulars could beat spanish Porsches in a tarmac that suits GT's enormously.

[Mirek]

Sorry I posted before I finished the post :) Reload the page please ;)

[RS]

It seems that the reasons for both Fabia R5 retirements were a kind of bitter commedy. One ran out of fuel and the other one needed only a reset of ECU. Take the second information easy. It's not confirmed, just a rumor.

It's good that there were no major mechanical issues at least.

[Mirek]

The information about Kostka's retirement was confirmed by Czech TV report.

[RS]

Besides that they go a lot less sideways than WRC cars. I have watched 10 stages and shakedown in Ypres and I haven't seen a single drift from Romain Dumas. I have seen a lot of high speed drifts from those S2000 and R5 cars who shall drive like on rails... I'm not sure if You saw the cars live on stages but there's not much spectacular about them unless You spectate only 1st gear corners. I really don't understand the hype.

They don't do anything for me either. Take away the noise and there is nothing.

[Jasper]

They don't do anything for me either. Take away the noise and there is nothing.


The things i saw from Dumas and Delecour @ ypres i liked very much. Maybe not so stunning as the fastet R2's, but close though.

[Ucci]

I think that ERC asphalt events are quite specific and none of them suits Porsches that much, even in Spanish level. Circuit of Ireland is usually dirty, often wet, very narrow with stripes of grass in the middle of the road. Ypres is narrow with a lot of cuts where GTs lack suspension travel and even faster Belgian national cars were unable to be on S2000 level in the past. Barum is super bumpy and often very dirty and finally Valais mix asphalt with gravel. I am quite sure that no GT car even Spanish one would become dominant in ERC. Also don't forget that Spanish GTs weren't able to defeat S2000 cars during IRC/ERC editions of Canarias.

And the final point is that ERC is championship and as such it has large number of gravel events. For that reason solely the GT cars will never be dominant there no matter how fast they are.

That is 100 % true. Just remember the words of R.Dumas after SS Panzerplatte. He was so frustrating because the bumpy road made the 911 almost undrivable. 911 likes smooth surface, with long bends, long straights....there they are equal to R5 / S2000....

[EightGear]

That is 100 % true. Just remember the words of R.Dumas after SS Panzerplatte. He was so frustrating because the bumpy road made the 911 almost undrivable. 911 likes smooth surface, with long bends, long straights....there they are equal to R5 / S2000....

Which makes them suited to hillclims, but not for rallying.

[Rally Power]

I think that ERC asphalt events are quite specific and none of them suits Porsches that much, even in Spanish level. Circuit of Ireland is usually dirty, often wet, very narrow with stripes of grass in the middle of the road. Ypres is narrow with a lot of cuts where GTs lack suspension travel and even faster Belgian national cars were unable to be on S2000 level in the past. Barum is super bumpy and often very dirty and finally Valais mix asphalt with gravel. I am quite sure that no GT car even Spanish one would become dominant in ERC. Also don't forget that Spanish GTs weren't able to defeat S2000 cars during IRC/ERC editions of Canarias.

And the final point is that ERC is championship and as such it has large number of gravel events. For that reason solely the GT cars will never be dominant there no matter how fast they are.

Until 2013 (last year Canarias was a IRC/ERC event) spanish guys use the older 3.6 version that was overall a little behind S2000/R5 cars. The 3.8 actual cars came in 2014, generating a huge controversy due to their performance ability. They have 450cv (for 1270kg), wider front track and larger rear wing (http://www.motorenlinea.es/articulo.php?id=6552). They're pretty much unbeatable in dry tarmac if well driven and prepared. For sure if ERC adopt spanish liberal GT regulations top european rally teams (hardly the case of Tuthill or Dumas structure) would be able to develop 911's to different tarmac ERC events and made them the dominant force in this kind of surface. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgi22o0FUws

PS: I'm not a GT rally fan, and was against Portugal adopting spanish rules. Fontes 911 domination last year in tarmac national rallies was an insult to all those guys that made huge investments in S2000/R5 cars having in mind tho whole championship (using tarmac and gravel rounds). FIA RGT restricting rules should be the norm for every country.

[Mirek]

Generally I am not against each country adopting their own rules. In the end it's their right to decide for themselves. What I see as a bad point is that by using non-international rules the country closes the door to many talented drivers to go international. When they use FIA cars they have perfect idea how good are they doing and they can also go to any FIA event to match themselves with the top international drivers. With local cars they have neither the idea how good compared to FIA guys they are nor can they easily go abroad to compete with them.

On the other hand sometimes I wish FIA ceased to exist. For example now during Barum a majority of teams got high fines for non-readable barcodes on tyres. What the hell could the teams do to prevent damaging of barcodes? The more crazy is that some crews which used just one or two sets of tyres received fines and penalties for same tyres several times. Especially for low-budget teams the fines were sometimes higher than the budget for the event. In the end I'm pretty sure that due to this steward decision we lost a lot of local crews which will next year enter national field instead.

[Ucci]

Which makes them suited to hillclims, but not for rallying.

Indeed !! So you got to have balls like a bull to be near to the R5/S2000 cars in the rally. That way - when I hear whining over GT drivers (advantages, blabla...), I say : pussies.....shame for each R5/S2000 driver which drives a purpose build, constructed and developed RALLY car to be beaten by a ''beetle on steroids''...

[Mirek]

I can understand if a masochist want to suffer voluntarily but I don't know why I shall admire that.

[EightGear]

So you got to have balls like a bull to be near to the R5/S2000 cars in the rally.

No testical size will ever redifine the laws of physics and road conditions.

[Ucci]

I can understand if a masochist want to suffer voluntarily but I don't know why I shall admire that.

Because driver risks a loooot.....and rally is also about taking risk. Otherwise go and admire turist rallies....

[Mirek]

Not sure if you are serious. Anyway I will do no more comments about GT cars in here as it's off topic.

[dimviii]

Indeed !! So you got to have balls like a bull to be near to the R5/S2000 cars in the rally. That way - when I hear whining over GT drivers (advantages, blabla...), I say : pussies.....shame for each R5/S2000 driver which drives a purpose build, constructed and developed RALLY car to be beaten by a ''beetle on steroids''...

the driver who have balls,rents a r5-s2000 and weight his balls with other drivers with similar cars.
They dont choose a 100+ bhp car with wider tyres and looks for dry tarmac rallies with circuit level asphalt.
These are the ''pussies''
Porsches are for circuits.Try to understand that.There is no team worldwide that will develop these cars to beat r5-s2000 cars.They are not made for this.
i am really surprised is so difficult to undersand it.

[Mirek]

Funny moment from Valoušek's onboard from SS Kudlovice. On those long straights in the first part of the stage the co-driver reads something and than says: I have here written that I shall tell some joke now." Valoušek: "I want some." And than she tells some short joke :D

[CWJ]

That is 100 % true. Just remember the words of R.Dumas after SS Panzerplatte. He was so frustrating because the bumpy road made the 911 almost undrivable. 911 likes smooth surface, with long bends, long straights....there they are equal to R5 / S2000....

Sorry, Romain Dumas was 4th overall 2 stages bevore the end at Ypres. And I think a 911 could do a fast stage time at Panzerplatte, of course if it is not wet they can challenge private R5. Not works cars. I just drove Barum stages for recce last week and I think it is possible to finnish Top10 with a RGT in future. Fans and sponsors will love it.

[tommeke_B]

@Mirek, Now you leave us all wondering, what's the joke? :D

[Mirek]

Sorry, Romain Dumas was 4th overall 2 stages bevore the end at Ypres. And I think a 911 could do a fast stage time at Panzerplatte, of course if it is not wet they can challenge private R5. Not works cars. I just drove Barum stages for recce last week and I think it is possible to finnish Top10 with a RGT in future. Fans and sponsors will love it.

Let's be realistic. He was mostly around 1-1,5 s/km down which is similar difference like between top WRC and top R5 drivers. He was 4th thanks to retirements and punctures of others not by the speed. I agree that it's for sure possible to finish in top 10 on Barum as there are also plenty of punctures and retirements there.

Anyway sorry that I didn't meet You in the service. I had no time during the rally and You were not on the scrutineering :(


@Mirek, Now you leave us all wondering, what's the joke? :D

I don't like translating jokes. Especially of this kind. It wouldn't be funny at all.

[tommeke_B]

Sorry, Romain Dumas was 4th overall 2 stages bevore the end at Ypres. And I think a 911 could do a fast stage time at Panzerplatte, of course if it is not wet they can challenge private R5. Not works cars. I just drove Barum stages for recce last week and I think it is possible to finnish Top10 with a RGT in future. Fans and sponsors will love it.

Sure Panzerplatte is a great stage for RGT cars, extremely wide and clean, and the concrete provides great traction. We drove Panzerplatte a few years ago, and I don't remember it anywhere as bumpy as Dumas apparently described... For Barum Rally I find it hard to believe a RGT car can finish in top 10 if dry (if wet sure it's impossible). Or maybe you think that in the future ERC will be extremely weak so there will be too few good R5 cars to fill the top 10? :D Wouldn't they lose a lot of time on stages like Semetin and Pindula? Of course the quicker/flatter stages in the west (Halenkovice / Kudlovice / Majak / Biskupice area) are better suited for a RGT-car, but still... Barum stages require a lot of confidence, with their many extremely long corners and bumps in the middle of them. I'm finding it hard to believe you can develop this kind of confidence to go flat out with a perfectly legal (mostly in terms of suspension) RGT car.

[Jarek Z]

There is no team worldwide that will develop these cars to beat r5-s2000 cars.

What are you talking about? In Spain R5 and S2000 cars are beaten by Porsches on a regular basis :)

[tommeke_B]

What are you talking about? In Spain R5 and S2000 cars are beaten by Porsches on a regular basis :)

Don't confuse national GT cars with RGT... ;)

[Jarek Z]

Don't confuse national GT cars with RGT... ;)

Yes, I know. But who said that the RGT rules cannot be changed and made similar to the Spanish regulations?

[tommeke_B]

@Jarek Z, answered in GT-topic (it's in the WRC-part of the forum). Going too far off-topic here, still no GT's entered Barum Rally... ;)

[dimviii]

Yes, I know. But who said that the RGT rules cannot be changed and made similar to the Spanish regulations?

even more than Spanish regulations would be better.Lets make them 600 ps and with 295 width slicks against 1,6 liters with restrictors and 235 tyres.
Make them with 235 width tyres,and 300 ps and let them play with fiesta r2(at dry,because at wet fiestas would be faster)

[stefanvv]

even more than Spanish regulations would be better.Lets make them 600 ps and with 295 width slicks against 1,6 liters with restrictors and 235 tyres.
Make them with 235 width tyres,and 300 ps and let them play with fiesta r2(at dry,because at wet fiestas would be faster)

not going to happen with d-mack tyres on the Fiesta

[Mirek]

Onboard of Jakeš from Seemtín: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiEWUz0X5x8

This stage has not been run in this direction since 2010 so it might be new for You ;)

[marcosg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wotyRvwlxo

czech review

[Nowi]

My photogallery from Barum Czech Rally 2015 - action, atmosphere & faces - http://www.rallylife.cz/barum-czech-rally-2015-nowi

[Jarek Z]

Kajto's Barum Rally video summary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbIRVmlv9jg

[Mirek]

Peugeot UK released a video about Barum rally in which You can see the moment of crash from the camera aimed on the crew. You can clearly see that Chris lost his helmet during rolling (I don't know if it wasn't fastened enough or why). Especially in combination with HANS this could have been very dangerous. Fortunately it ended well but You can see from the video that Chris was badly shaken.

The moment I spoke about is shortly before 7th minute of the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-vMURjcNEU

[Mirek]

Guys, try if the onboards work now abroad? If not You have to wait few more days...

http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy.html

If it works I for sure recommend mostly Semetín, Troják and Pindula stages to watch ;)

[EightGear]

Yes it works.

[Mirek]

Great, so I recommend at least this one, Lukyanuk, second Troják :)
http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8108.html

And Pech, Semetín
http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8110.html

[marcosg]

the amount of "piiiiii"s on kopecky's onboard of slusovice when passing the spot where consani crashed is interesting :)

[marcosg]

http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8076.html - kostka

not so good on the 1st slow part but good on the 2nd fast part... and another big impact on consani crash site, althoug he was warned by his codriver

[kiil]

Great, so I recommend at least this one, Lukyanuk, second Troják :)
http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8108.html

Amazing stage and drive.

[Mirek]

Big moment of Vojáček (Honda Civic VTi): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTTidAPT7E

[Plhus]

My pictures from Barum Rally:

http://www.src.czechrallyeweb.net/pages/barum2015.htm

[Mirek]

Not the best video by editing but there is some nice action in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIxhyUPBKmg

Check at least Kopecký (0:48 and further). Also very nice moment from Consani at 8:33.

[Mirek]

A Chistmas present from Mediasport - best of onboards: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8563.html ;)

[manthey]

A Chistmas present from Mediasport - best of onboards: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/8563.html ;)

very nice thanks!
what did they say each other valousek&havelkova @ 4.04 - 4.12?

[Mirek]

That's really funny :)

First she says "cut", he cuts very deep and she says smiling "oh, so far?" and than on the long straight she says "here I shall say some joke" and Valoušek replies "bring it on" and she says some short joke :)

[sete]

Hope we will se Valoušek again next year in Czech rallies.