Jänner Rally 2016 cancelled

[CWJ]

No more Jänner Rallye 2016

http://forum.rallye-magazin.de/rallye-news/27078-jaenner-rallye-ist-abgesagt.html

In Mühviertel went off the bomb in the evening. "Although a letter of intent from Euro Sport exists that the January rally is to remain until 2018 integral part of the European Championship, we are not prepared to carry it out in 2016," announced rally boss Ferdinand Staber.

The trend of the number of participants is steadily since 2012 downwards. EM field minus 45 percent, Austrian Championship minus 17 percent. Reversal of a trend in the foreseeable future is not in sight, since many teams struggling financially

With the gate receipts of the organizer must cover at least 30 percent of the budget of year 650000-700000 euros. Due to the unpredictable weather conditions the financial risk is enormous. The costs of implementing evolve in the opposite direction to the nominations and increased since 2012 by 47 percent.

As announced by the Austrian rider representatives Mario Saibel, the International January Rally is no longer desirable for reasons of cost as a national state championship run. It has also been called by the Austrian rally scene for a boycott of the Winter classic in Mühlviertel example before the January rally in 2015.

Criticism of Euro Sport

For years, criticized the organizers that the FIA ​​and Euro Sport are not able or willing to fix up the middle of August a European Championship calendar for next year, although that has been repeatedly demanded. The fact that the FIA ​​did not make it in time to ensure a clear regulations, cost, according to the organizers this year at least ten to 15 starters.

Although already promised in 2015, bring forward the broadcast times on Euro Sport is not possible. Shipments after 23 Set clock at least in Austria and Europe is not primetime.

As the Management Board of the RCM does not expect any positive changes in the issues raised, the decision, the January rally in 2016 not to carry out, was unanimous.

[Mirek]

Pity but no so surprising. In my opinion there are more reasons behind that not only ERC-related. Some are partly mentioned such as current and still growing terrible situation in ÖRM but in my opinion part of them is that organizers didn't manage to attract so many Czech crews like in "good old days" (together with the loss of Czech championship). They also didn't mention problems with organizing the rally itself. There were problems in last years with getting permission to run stages (remember that ridiculous requirement for artificial lighting all along the night stages?) and the more and more crazier date when the rally is held which doesn't help to attract foreigners at all.

[Sulland]

What winter rally should then take its place?

[Mirek]

By the way I just had a look. The first point of the press-release is not true. The decrease of entries in the ERC field was 29% (39 compared to 55) but it shall be mentioned that among the ERC field there was 54% decrease among Austrian and 40% among Czech crews (that's partly due to the mandatory registration). The number of other foreigners, i.e. those mainly attracted by promoter, was almost same.

[rp]

What winter rally should then take its place?

Definitely should be a real winter rally! Arctic Lapland Rally in Finland would be great...

[Mirek]

I thought that the organizers of Arctic are not interested. Also is there still the Pirelli-only deal in FRC?

[Jarek Z]

By the way I just had a look. The first point of the press-release is not true. The decrease of entries in the ERC field was 29% (39 compared to 55)

It doesn't matter that much. It's more about the trend. The number of competitors is too low and it is constantly decreasing. At the same time the cost of organizing a rally is constantly increasing (thanks to all idiotic rules of FIA and/or ERC organizers). It's a shame that we are losing this fantastic event, but I completely understand the Austrian organizers.

[Mirek]

Jarek, You didn't understand. I wanted to show that the number is mainly given by the change of the rules when the registrations made the local crews enter in the national field instead of FIA field. The number of foreign non-Austrian and non-Czech crews in the FIA field was circa same in 2015 as in 2014. The important decrease was local Austrian and Czech crews, not ERC competitors how the press release pretends.

I didn't count other events but I'm quite sure that there is generally more ERC regulars in 2015 than in 2014 and the trend is positive. The registration which caused locals not to be always counted into ERC field on the other hand increased the number of ERC regulars.

[Jeppe]

I thought that the organizers of Arctic are not interested. Also is there still the Pirelli-only deal in FRC?

I think Arctic Rally organizers are still not interested. In Arctic there is ´healthy field´ of drivers from Finland and some tourists so why bother...

Pirelli deal is over in Finland. Tyre mark has been liberated for some years in the FRC only number of tyres/rally are regulated.

[Jarek Z]

The important decrease was local Austrian and Czech crews, not ERC competitors how the press release pretends.

Isn't it the fault of FIA/ERC organizers, that local crews don't compete? Who introduced the idiotic tyre rules in ERC?

[Jarek Z]

New action auf Facebook :)
https://www.facebook.com/rettenderjaennerrallye

[Mirek]

Isn't it the fault of FIA/ERC organizers, that local crews don't compete? Who introduced the idiotic tyre rules in ERC?

No, it's not. The job of FIA and the promoter is to bring more regular crews to the championship and that point is being achieved.

[Jarek Z]

The job of FIA and the promoter is to bring more regular crews to the championship and that point is being achieved.

Is discouraging local crews the job of FIA and the promoter as well?

[Mirek]

Jarek, we have discussed that already before. The point is that mandatory registrations while discouraging one-off starters are very good for bringing more regulars. Every time it's something for something. You win something and loose something else. You can never win in every point of view. In my opinion it is much more important to bring regulars who do let's say 5-8 events than to have plenty of crews who start only once per season. That's healthy for particular events but not for the championship and quite clearly the championship is what is more important.

[Fran2013]

Jarek, we have discussed that already before. The point is that mandatory registrations while discouraging one-off starters are very good for bringing more regulars. Every time it's something for something. You win something and loose something else. You can never win in every point of view. In my opinion it is much more important to bring regulars who do let's say 5-8 events than to have plenty of crews who start only once per season. That's healthy for particular events but not for the championship and quite clearly the championship is what is more important.

Wrong...

What i see is that the majority of drivers only do 1 event. Look at my home rally, the Azores...

This is the year that i see less interest in this rallye by the locals... No one really liked the entry list and if it wasn´t the portuguese drivers no one would really care. I must say that i prefer when we had 2 or 3 big names in the old ERC.

And reading some news here, it seems relations between everyone are not great.

The rumor is that the Governent and organization are really pissed about the lack of coverage, the calendar and many other things. They don´t understand why they are paying more and getting less.

FIA wants to promote WRC and it is creating this stupid rules to make ERC less interesting. This is by far the worst year. No big names, no big teams. I remember a couple years ago everyone writing that ERC would become much better than IRC, because of the R5. Reality is far different.

[Mirek]

OK, let's have a closer look. In 2015 You have 32 non-Portuguese entries. In 2014 it was 25, in 2013 it was 27, in 2012 it was 14. In the ES era of ERC it was therefore 14-25-27-32, in percentage it's 2012, 2013 +79%, 2014 - 8%, 2015 +28%.

Do You think that attracting 32 foreign crews to such a distant place is bad achievement? I for sure don't considering how many problems starting on Azores means for mainland teams. The championship changed with less manufacturer entries and with juniors playing far bigger role than in the past. Maybe You don't like it but I suggest to have a closer look on these guys as they are the future of the sport.

And no, not everyone wrote how R5 would do ERC better than IRC. I don't know who wrote it but it's nonsense.

[Fran2013]

OK, let's have a closer look. In 2015 You have 32 non-Portuguese entries. In 2014 it was 25, in 2013 it was 27, in 2012 it was 14. In the ES era of ERC it was therefore 14-25-27-32, in percentage it's 2012, 2013 +79%, 2014 - 8%, 2015 +28%.

Do You think that attracting 32 foreign crews to such a distant place is bad achievement? I for sure don't considering how many problems starting on Azores means for mainland teams. The championship changed with less manufacturer entries and with juniors playing far bigger role than in the past. Maybe You don't like it but I suggest to have a closer look on these guys as they are the future of the sport.

And no, not everyone wrote how R5 would do ERC better than IRC. I don't know who wrote it but it's nonsense.

The organizers want big names. They want publicity. If they don´t get it the government will not give money. Do you think they liked this date ?

No, they don´t like to have many foreign drivers. More costs and problems

[Mirek]

So if they want few top drivers instead of large international field why are they part of the championship? Why don't they buy two or three top drivers instead? Sorry but this is worth a serious facepalm if it's meant to be serious.

[Fran2013]

So if they want few top drivers instead of large international field why are they part of the championship? Why don't they buy two or three top drivers instead? Sorry but this is worth a serious facepalm if it's meant to be serious.


???

Publicity ? Live TV ?

Why do you think they didn´t authorized the "Volcano stage" after knowing that no live tv was scheduled for this year event ?

[Fran2013]

Why Ypres thread has more replies than SATA Rally thread ? Because of the entry list...

How much buzz the rally is getting ? None

Do you really think that if Skoda or Solberg was there it would be the same ?

[Mirek]

I admit I was caught with my pants down as I would never think that someone would complain that more entries mean more cost and more problems. If the organization really thinks like that then I wish that Acores is as soon as possible out of the championship.

[dodge33cymru]

Losing Skoda's backing for WRC2 is a big blow for the series, as I see it. Last year there were good-as two works Peugeots and two works Skodas throughout, whereas this year there's only one full-time Peugeot. WRC2 is growing in stature, partially due to it being better for youngsters looking to catch the eye of WRC teams, especially when they have learnt the same events.

With the swing of the WRC realising it can't live without its classics, and the IRC platform folding, this is to be expected and, unless more works or consistent entries can be gained, the series probably has an uncertain long-term future as it will struggle for improved coverage on the dismal offering Eurosport is giving it this year. Which is a real shame, because Eurosport's IRC coverage was probably the best rallying has been covered in many years, if not ever.

Sorry, I'm rambling there. I really hope the ERC can pull it around in terms of attracting quality fields of both locals and internationals; it certainly has the right events to deserve popularity.

[Fran2013]

I admit I was caught with my pants down as I would never think that someone would complain that more entries mean more cost and more problems. If the organization really thinks like that then I wish that Acores is as soon as possible out of the championship.

More teams= Bigger ferry + expenses in Hotels and flights

It is ridiculous that you think that is better to have quantity over quality. Amazing. Why not ban every event that has an entry limit ? Le Mans ? Dakar ?

I know a couple of people who wanted to travel to the Azores from Lisbon and Porto to see the rally and canceled because of the low level of entries.

And that is hurting the event.

Off course we know that many in central europe want to ban de event. It is far away, etc.... This is why they put the rally in this stupid dates

[RS]

Coverage for ERC is still a lot better than for WRC2. Day one coverage of WRC2 from Portugal was less than one minute...

And if the cancellation of Janner is all Eurosport's fault why don't they just run the event as a non-ERC Rally?

Regarding Azores: http://irc.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=11&stid=12338

[Mirek]

More teams= Bigger ferry + expenses in Hotels and flights

It is ridiculous that you think that is better to have quantity over quality. Amazing. Why not ban every event that has an entry limit ? Le Mans ? Dakar ?

A healthy championship must have some quantity. Championship with three good drivers and nobody else is no championship. I understand that for Acores it's different but any other ERC rally welcomes the quantity as well. You are the only exception. If You are happy with having three top drivers and don't want to see anybody else from Europe than we have nothing more to speak about.


I know a couple of people who wanted to travel to the Azores from Lisbon and Porto to see the rally and canceled because of the low level of entries.

It's their choice but who did they expect to come? Don't they follow ERC? Majority of ERC regulars is there so why is the final list shocking?


Off course we know that many in central europe want to ban de event. It is far away, etc.... This is why they put the rally in this stupid dates

Come on. Where did You hear such bullshit and what the hell has central Europe to do with ERC calendar? Any more conspiracy theories?

Anyway Acores is beautiful rally but if the organization doesn't want entrants who aren't big enough stars than they shall be out. They are part of championship, not some all star event.

[Fran2013]

A healthy championship must have some quantity. Championship with three good drivers and nobody else is no championship. I understand that for Acores it's different but any other ERC rally welcomes the quantity as well. You are the only exception. If You are happy with having three top drivers and don't want to see anybody else from Europe than we have nothing more to speak about.



It's their choice but who did they expect to come? Don't they follow ERC? Majority of ERC regulars is there so why is the final list shocking?



Come on. Where did You hear such bullshit and what the hell has central Europe to do with ERC calendar? Any more conspiracy theories?

Anyway Acores is beautiful rally but if the organization doesn't want entrants who aren't big enough stars than they shall be out. They are part of championship, not some all star event.

Again, you think that everything is OK.

Do you really understand what is 1 million Euros for a region of 240.000 people ? Can you imagine the czech government giving 50 millions Euros to Eurosport to promote Barum and then have an entry list like this ? With no live tv ? Between two gravel WRC events ?

Maybe you don´t remember, but this rally was scheduled to be held 1 week after rally Portugal. Does it make any sense ?

A small question: What would you prefer in Barum: 10 WRC Drivers or 20 ERC drivers ?

[WUff1]

Well no suprise at all. After the many frictions around this year´s edition I already suspected this soon after the rally. Main reasons are the date (Jänner Rallye would never have achieved big entries in ERC field because of the date), the dying Austrian rally scene on national championship level (which is only still some kind of vivid in sprint rally championship), and retirement of Czech championship. Not to forget media reports bashing ERC-field around Baumschlager´s start only in national field

If there´s some kind of Jänner Rallye again (don´t really think so), I suppose it won´t be in the same area. But not in the next years

[Mirek]

Again, you think that everything is OK.

No, I don't think that everything is ok. I just see strange logic from You. You see Rally Acores purely as a marketing tool for the islands but You forget that at first place it is part of an international championship. You keep complaining that the championship has too many competitors but not enough top ones for making a good enough advertisement for the islands. In that case take Your money and invest them into something else.


Do you really understand what is 1 million Euros for a region of 240.000 people ? Can you imagine the czech government giving 50 millions Euros to Eurosport to promote Barum and then have an entry list like this ? With no live tv ? Between two gravel WRC events ?

So, Your government invests into the rally more than ours into Barum. It's big investment for sure but the more they shall think about what they get. If they are not satisfied they shall invest into something else. With Eurosport it's normal business relationship after all.


Maybe you don´t remember, but this rally was scheduled to be held 1 week after rally Portugal. Does it make any sense ?

No, it makes no sense but tell me what has central Europe to do with that as You said?


A small question: What would you prefer in Barum: 10 WRC Drivers or 20 ERC drivers ?

Spectator would for sure prefer ten WRC drivers but You have to see it from the opposite side as well. It's the job of promoter to attract more regulars to the championship, not only into the main category but also into juniors, gr.N or 2WD. That is what Eurosport is currently successful in despite less interest from manufacturers in the very top category. It's also not fair to put all the blame on Eurosport when the main issue is that Peugeot is broke and it's R5 car is crap and Škoda went to WRC most likely due to internal VAG politics.

[dodge33cymru]

I think one of the real shames here is that we've gone from live coverage at some point in almost every round (I would never have considered visiting the Azores until I saw live coverage of the rally) to nothing at all, which is more down to the two manufacturers not wanting it, for the reasons Mirek gives above. I doubt it makes significant difference, if any, to the cost for the organisers, but it must massively lessen the ROI for the host region.

Motorsport spectating has taken me to parts of the world I would never have considered visiting otherwise, many of which I've gone back to just to visit and recommended to others (Mosel, Finnskogen, Ypres, Loire Valley and several more), but it's always been a strong event that's made me want to go there in the first place. This year I intend to visit Valais; an area I would never have heard of but for rallying coverage.

So it can be worthwhile for these areas, but they have to be guaranteed coverage, which can be brought about either through the promoter's media contracts (often assisted by manufacturer entries) or the entrants themselves. If neither of those is forthcoming, then no wonder the rally doesn't make sense for the current region to support.

[rallyfiend]

Coverage for ERC is still a lot better than for WRC2. Day one coverage of WRC2 from Portugal was less than one minute...

And if the cancellation of Janner is all Eurosport's fault why don't they just run the event as a non-ERC Rally?

Regarding Azores: http://irc.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=11&stid=12338

Not true at all.

There was a bunch of WRC2 cars in the Live TV programmes - both SS1 and the first run of Fafe. Hence why we were able to see Ketomaa have his accident etc.. Live on WRC has got to be far more valuable than Live on Eurosport...

[RS]

Not true at all.

There was a bunch of WRC2 cars in the Live TV programmes - both SS1 and the first run of Fafe. Hence why we were able to see Ketomaa have his accident etc.. Live on WRC has got to be far more valuable than Live on Eurosport...

Ahhh, that's true.. I forgot that although I think it was by accident rather than design and i'm not sure how many people have access to the live WRC stuff?

[Fran2013]

No, I don't think that everything is ok. I just see strange logic from You. You see Rally Acores purely as a marketing tool for the islands but You forget that at first place it is part of an international championship. You keep complaining that the championship has too many competitors but not enough top ones for making a good enough advertisement for the islands.

Again, you think that everything is OK. You think that having less top drivers is only bad for the Azores rally but is ok for the championship... No this is awful and that's why many organizations are complaining because Eurosport is not promoting the championship. The same thing happened to WTCC

Two months ago they even said that the tv recap would last 60 minutes. Where is the schedule? The usual 30 minutes

This is the Eurosport UK Page, any news about the rally ?

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/motorsport/

Trust me, Eurosport wants to leave ERC as soon as possible and are doing only the basic....

[PLuto]

Off course we know that many in central europe want to ban de event. It is far away, etc.... This is why they put the rally in this stupid dates

That is absolutely not true. Event was moved to beginning of June because of change date for Rally Portugal in WRC.

[PLuto]

For me it is really pity I have read this thread today and not earlier. Because I would like to talk to Fran2013 personally when I was on Acores...

[PLuto]

But for me entry list to Acores 2015 was better than 2014 - from top 2014 drivers was missing only Abbring and Sousa (+Gryazin this time with smaller car), but instead of them there was added two Moffetts, Martin, Fontes (also in ERC2 with Pushkar+Hudec vs. Butvilas+Botka+Stajf+Ranga) and much more quality (and quantity) entry in JERC.

[PLuto]

But this topic should be mainly about Janner going out of ERC. I think that there were many reasons to do it. When they decided to go into ERC, they have decided to invest lot of money into going to the championship. Maybe they expected they will receive more money from sponsors or from government, I dont know. But it was risky game and it looks like it failed. For me there is also problem that they have "put out" one of the main organiser, who was responsible for sporting side of the event in the old days... And for sure, biggest problem for the event is the date. Regarding ERC I am in contact with lot of teams, drivers, mechanics. For most of them, the reason for absence was the date so close to New Year. Here is direct citation most of them: "During whole year we are at work or at another rallies. So at least during Christmas holidays we want to be with our families." I know that mechanics from one team received "absence" on Janner as a present for winning the prize in previous year. And in some teams mechanics were persuading drivers to miss Janner...

[Francis44]

Unfortunately I think this will become a trend within the organizers.

The quality and interest of the championship is so small these days that I totally understand that some organizers are having difficulties justifiyng those budgets. I mean, apart from Breen and Kajetanowicz there is no interest, long gone are the days of IRC when you had a wealthy entry of manufacteurs such as Skoda, Peugeot, Fiat and a very prominent entry of top cars from national importers, all with talented drivers.
As an huge rally fan I have trouble getting interested in turning on the TV to watch the daily ERC highlights, I'd much rather watch the Belgian championship on Motorstv as I find it much more appealing. I think that says a lot about the current state of the ERC.

[AdvEvo]

Rallying is getting to expensive! Also introducing an R5 car is not a cheap way to get more drivers into rallying.

The only thing you see growing is historic rallying with older and cheaper to run cars.

[Mirek]

Where does the historic rallying grow? Here certainly not. A humble question, not some sarcasm.

By the way some numbers from our scene in 2015
Šumava (Vltava) 66 modern cars and 25 historics (numbers after scrutineering)
Český Krumlov 80 modern cars and 30 historics (numbers after scrutineering)
Rally Hustopeče 93 modern cars and 14 historics (entries - it is to be run this weekend)

[Francis44]

Mirek, I dont think rallys from the national calendar are a good indication of historics popularity. Safety and scruteneering are so tight nowadays that most drivers just dont want to risk it. In the so called pirate races I'd say more than 50% are historics, atleast here. There has been also a huge boom on regularity rally with the historic cars, get a blunik and a full fuel tank and you're set to go.

[PLuto]

Mirek, I dont think rallys from the national calendar are a good indication of historics popularity. Safety and scruteneering are so tight nowadays that most drivers just dont want to risk it. In the so called pirate races I'd say more than 50% are historics, atleast here. There has been also a huge boom on regularity rally with the historic cars, get a blunik and a full fuel tank and you're set to go.

Historics were growing up also on international level on previous year, but it is stopped now and level is not so perfect. It is because they have allowed more modern cars - group B like Lancia 037 Rally and now also first modern cars of group A...

[Mekola]

Well, back to topic. It's a real shame that Jänner rally will be cancelled for 2016. That rally spiced up the first days of January every year, along the South-American Dakar and the Africa ECO Race...

[RS]

Not true at all.

There was a bunch of WRC2 cars in the Live TV programmes - both SS1 and the first run of Fafe. Hence why we were able to see Ketomaa have his accident etc.. Live on WRC has got to be far more valuable than Live on Eurosport...

Unless I missed it they didn't show the WRC2 crews on the Sardinia power stage despite three of them being in the top 10.

[WUff1]

Jänner Rallye organizers have no financial problems, except for 2013 when it was heavy rain and much fewer spectators. But they close their budget now solidly even with some money left.

ERC-Top Ten field was not so bad in the last years, especially form 2013 onwards (as already written by Mirek), but big problem was nearly complete crashing down of production car field - because of missing CZ-starters on the one hand (not being part of CZ-Championship anymore) and also lack of national starters on the other hand, which can be seen in other rallies of Austrian Championship too. In Austria most Mitsubishi/Subaru-drivers now only start at sprint rallies, whereas in championshop rallies it´s now just Baumschlager (and some very few other occasional starters with fast cars like Kreim at some rallies this year) followed by R3/R2 cars on the Podium.

On the other hand there was big media bashing of Jänner rallye this year because of separate results ERC <-> national class, only caused by Baumschlager´s start just in national field - something which never is a problem where national rallies are running in combination with ERC, like e.g. Azores.

Everyone knows the date was not very good, which would have been another big problem in 2016, but in earlier years when Jänner Rallye was part of the old European Championship nobody was really moaning about this. But times are much more stressy in these days, so it ís understandable that teams are more focused about celebrating Christmas Holidays.

Even at Monte there are less starters than elsewhere, many drivers enter WRC/2/3 later at Portugal.

Let´s see if there will be a "sprint"-Jänner Rallye in 2017, which was proposed by some drivers, and if new rules in Austria get through, could then also be part of Austrian Championship again.

[PLuto]

Everyone knows the date was not very good, which would have been another big problem in 2016, but in earlier years when Jänner Rallye was part of the old European Championship nobody was really moaning about this. But times are much more stressy in these days, so it ís understandable that teams are more focused about celebrating Christmas Holidays.

Before entering into Eurosport ERC, Janner was not real competitor in ERC, nobody was taking interest about this event and crews were deciding to start there because of snow conditions (I am talking about modern history, not prehistoric times...

[WUff1]

I was talking about the Eighties, before the first end of the rally in 1986, when European championship was not very important, similar to European rally throphy today, where as I think also Barum was a part of it (?) in these times.