Team-mate battles of 2015

[jens]

After a quick look I didn't see the existence of such thread, so thought I'd create one.:)

How will the team-mate battles end this year? In whose favour (or in a tie), and by how big a margin?

Hamilton v Rosberg
Ricciardo v Kvyat
Bottas v Massa
Vettel v Räikkönen
Alonso v Button
Hülkenberg v Pérez
Verstappen v Sainz jr
Grosjean v Maldonado
Nasr v Ericsson
Stevens (???) v Mr X

[anfield5]

Mercesdes: Rosberg over Hamilton (just)
Red Bull: Ricciardo over Kvyat (easily)
Williams: Bottas over Massa (comfortably)
Ferrari: Vettel over Rosberg (quite close)
Alonso over Button (comfortably)
Hulk over Perez (by being consistent)
Verstappen and Sainz (haven't got a clue)
Grosjean over Maldonado (easily)
Nasr over Ericsson (comfortably_
Manor - Marussia - depends on who the mystery man turns out to be.

[Bagwan]

Mercesdes: Rosberg over Hamilton (just)
Red Bull: Ricciardo over Kvyat (easily)
Williams: Bottas over Massa (comfortably)
Ferrari: Vettel over Rosberg (quite close)
Alonso over Button (comfortably)
Hulk over Perez (by being consistent)
Verstappen and Sainz (haven't got a clue)
Grosjean over Maldonado (easily)
Nasr over Ericsson (comfortably_
Manor - Marussia - depends on who the mystery man turns out to be.

So , Rosberg will win at Mercedes , but lose at Ferrari ?

[Duncan]

My picks, also with the order I expect the teams to finish...

Mercedes: Hamilton over Rosberg. Possibly with several clouds of expensive carbon fiber shards generated along the way.
Williams: Bottas over Massa
Ferrari: Vettel over Räikkönen
Red Bull: Ricciardo over Kvyat
Sauber: Nasr over Ericsson
Lotus: Grosjean over Maldonado
Toro Rosso: No clue. I'll pick Verstappen mostly at random.
McLaren: Alonso over Button (assuming Alonso is healthy...)
Force India: Perez over Hulkenberg
Manor: Stevens over whoever pays for the other seat.

[anfield5]

So , Rosberg will win at Mercedes , but lose at Ferrari ?

oops - mybad!

although driving for two teams would be a neat trick.

How about Vettel vs Kimi :)

[A FONDO]

Hamilton v Rosberg HAM no doubt
Ricciardo v Kvyat RIC no doubt
Bottas v Massa BOT no doubt
Vettel v Räikkönen Vettel is more aggressive and if the car suits him he should lead, but who knows...
Alonso v Button the one with more face hair will collect more points as well.
Hülkenberg v Pérez they are competely different guys. depends on luck. but Hulk to have more points at the end of the season is a sure bet.
Verstappen v Sainz jr Verstappen but not clearly.
Grosjean v Maldonado GRO
Nasr v Ericsson ERIC. Nasr was a total tragedy in GP2
Stevens (???) v Mr X Mr X

[Tazio]

I predict that some guys get merely spanked,:smash: while others get totally punked. :arrows::dork:

[rjbetty]

Hey I was just thinking of starting a thread like this on the way back from work. :mad:

Ok then, *waves hands over crystal ball* woooooooooo I see... I see...

(and since I tend to find it hard to avoid lots of detail, I will bold the gist of it.

MERCEDES: Too close to call. Rosberg I guess. I still don't really trust the Merc management and still think they really want the publicity of 2 world champions in their team. Not saying they will fix things like some, but that emotional support and such is actually pretty important. But Hamilton would probably prove me wrong again like last year.

RED BULL: Kvyat could surprise in qualifying. I think he will be like Kimi at McLaren in 2002, better than I expected. In the points standings, no way, so Ricciardo comfortably on points, not that comfortably in qualifying.

WILLIAMS: Bottas fairly comfortably but not too much.

FERRARI: I like Kimi and F1 needs him doing well, but I feel in 2012-2013 (i.e. in good cars) Seb was a bit better, while in a bad car (2014) Seb was definitely better, so whichever way round it is, I have to say Vettel. By a small margin or bigger, no idea.

MCLAREN: Like most, I choose Alonso but closer than most probably think, just like Jenson against Lewis was closer than expected. Button could sneak ahead if Alonso gets headaches and suffers a poor(ish) season.

FORCE INDIA: Hulkenberg. My fears were realised last year and Hulkenberg's stock cooled. Don't forget the weight limit is raised 10kg this year though. No way do I think Perez is better than Hulkenberg though. Fairly close though.

TORO ROSSO: Inititially impossible to tell, but for what it's worth, the small amount of clue you might get from testing suggests Verstappen to take this. Could be a fair gap like Ricciardo/Vergne 2013.

LOTUS: Grosjean without too much problem, though Maldonado is pretty underrated and can be very quick.

SAUBER: Hard to tell, but consensus seems to be Nasr. Ericsson has a year of experience though and the weight limit increases - he is one of the heavier drivers I think.

MANOR F1: In Grand Prix 2, I have installed Esteban Gutierrez in the second seat. Seems a decent fit with his Ferrari links. Don't think he can take sponsors with him though. Therefore Stevens by default until a second driver confirmed.

[CNR]

Ferrari TEST DRIVER ?
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/jeaneric-vergnes-return--in-red-20150228-13rje7.html
It could only be Ferrari and F1's most famous team has a small but significant presence at the Adelaide 500 V8 Supercars season-opener.

For the first time since the Adelaide Parklands street circuit last hosted the F1 Australian Grand Prix 20 years ago, a modern F1 car has been screaming around the track this weekend.

Stevens v Jean-Eric Vergne

[jens]

MERCEDES: Too close to call. Rosberg I guess. I still don't really trust the Merc management and still think they really want the publicity of 2 world champions in their team. Not saying they will fix things like some, but that emotional support and such is actually pretty important. But Hamilton would probably prove me wrong again like last year.


To be very honest, rjbetty. I have to tell you one thing. You are too much into conspiracy theories.:D

Already in 2013-14 there were claims that Rosberg was "preferred". There were even claims Hamilton was "preferred" as he is the famous big-money signing. In the end Hamilton won both seasons.

And surely Mercedes would have liked the more famous and marketable Schumacher to shine in 2010-2012, yet Rosberg won all those seasons?!

Sometimes it is better to follow F1 with a clear mind without getting too much into all kinds of theories, which lack substance.:)

[jens]

OK, my personal thoughts

Hamilton v Rosberg. However, I am very interested to find out, how will the qualifying battle end up this year, because I have no idea, which way would it go this time around! Hamilton is perhaps a bit more spectacular in race trim. At least was last year.

Ricciardo v Kvyat. Daniel has convinced me he is top-notch material. Of course you can always have a bad patch, but you get the point. Kvyat is promising, but is yet to convince he is that complete/consistent especially in race trim. Will do fine in qualis.

Bottas v Massa. I don't think Bottas wins by a landslide, but more by the virtue of consistency. Massa will have his days as well.

Vettel v Räikkönen. This is one of the trickiest ones. I am open to the possibility initially early in the season Räikkönen could have an edge or at least be a match. But we are predicting, what will the state of the affairs be by the end of the season - the long game.

Alonso v Button. Alonso, but... Button should run him closer than the last couple of Alonso's high-caliber team-mates. Esp if Alo has already trouble starting the season. But if Alonso still performs at his best and as superbly consistently as in the last few years, he should overcome Button.

Hülkenberg v Pérez. A bit like the Williams pairing. Pérez will have his days, but Hulk is more consistent.

Verstappen v Sainz jr. To be honest, this could be a tie! And point-score will depend on, who will get more "fortunate" with circumstances. However, I do think the 17-y-o Max could be the one with better overall talent. We will see, how much will youth hold him back.

Grosjean v Maldonado. Maldo will shine on some days, but Grosjean will be the more consistent one. Well, you have already read such sentence above!

Nasr v Ericsson. I like Ericsson, and I really like someone from Sweden is in F1.:D Not too far-away country from me. But to be entirely honest, unfortunately he is not very talented, not too dissimilar to Chilton. I don't think Nasr is going to be a megastar of F1, but could be a bit better of the two.

Stevens (???) v Mr X. I don't know, who Mr X is going to be, but I think Mr X wins, unless he is a completely no-hoper unknown paydriver. Because I don't think Stevens is really very good. About on Chilton level based on feeder series evidence.

[raybak]

I'm all ready to be Mr X, have my helmet a red racesuit and can make a Superlicence on my new printer. As a plus will be in Melbourne as well.

Ray:)

[rjbetty]

To be very honest, rjbetty. I have to tell you one thing. You are too much into conspiracy theories.:D

Yeah you're probably right. I kinda felt wrong after I posted that bit tbh. It comes from a slight mistrust of Wolff from as far back as 2012. I don't know if Bruno Senna had something to say about his involvement with Williams then?

[jens]

Yeah you're probably right. I kinda felt wrong after I posted that bit tbh. It comes from a slight mistrust of Wolff from as far back as 2012. I don't know if Bruno Senna had something to say about his involvement with Williams then?

:)

I can't remember any "incident" involving both Bruno Senna and Toto Wolff, so someone else has to enlighten here. Except Wolff was/is the manager of Valtteri Bottas and needless to say, the Finn was given the seat of Senna for the 2013 season. Well, even looking in retrospect, one can hardly blame them for that decision!

[Zico]

OK, my personal thoughts

Hamilton v Rosberg. However, I am very interested to find out, how will the qualifying battle end up this year, because I have no idea, which way would it go this time around! Hamilton is perhaps a bit more spectacular in race trim. At least was last year.

Ricciardo v Kvyat. Daniel has convinced me he is top-notch material. Of course you can always have a bad patch, but you get the point. Kvyat is promising, but is yet to convince he is that complete/consistent especially in race trim. Will do fine in qualis.

Bottas v Massa. I don't think Bottas wins by a landslide, but more by the virtue of consistency. Massa will have his days as well.

Vettel v Räikkönen. This is one of the trickiest ones. I am open to the possibility initially early in the season Räikkönen could have an edge or at least be a match. But we are predicting, what will the state of the affairs be by the end of the season - the long game.

Alonso v Button. Alonso, but... Button should run him closer than the last couple of Alonso's high-caliber team-mates. Esp if Alo has already trouble starting the season. But if Alonso still performs at his best and as superbly consistently as in the last few years, he should overcome Button.

Hülkenberg v Pérez. A bit like the Williams pairing. Pérez will have his days, but Hulk is more consistent.

Verstappen v Sainz jr. To be honest, this could be a tie! And point-score will depend on, who will get more "fortunate" with circumstances. However, I do think the 17-y-o Max could be the one with better overall talent. We will see, how much will youth hold him back.

Grosjean v Maldonado. Maldo will shine on some days, but Grosjean will be the more consistent one. Well, you have already read such sentence above!

Nasr v Ericsson. I like Ericsson, and I really like someone from Sweden is in F1.:D Not too far-away country from me. But to be entirely honest, unfortunately he is not very talented, not too dissimilar to Chilton. I don't think Nasr is going to be a megastar of F1, but could be a bit better of the two.

Stevens (???) v Mr X. I don't know, who Mr X is going to be, but I think Mr X wins, unless he is a completely no-hoper unknown paydriver. Because I don't think Stevens is really very good. About on Chilton level based on feeder series evidence.

Similar thoughts also Jens... I have a sneaky feeling that Kimi will get on much better with this years car and could well win this team mate battle. He certainly sounds a lot more positive about the car, If Ferrari have made the improvements we think they have it could provide the ambition and drive (that seemed to be missing last year) to make the difference.
Rosberg vs Hamilton is a very difficult one, Im gonna tip Lewis to edge out Nico again after an initial bad start to the season thanks to slightly reduced milage compared to Nico and we have all seen how personal life issues have affected him in the past... he'll be hurting again no doubt but if he can pick himself up again sooner rather than later, he can do it.

[kfzmeister]

Stevens (???) v Mr X. I don't know, who Mr X is going to be, but I think Mr X wins, unless he is a completely no-hoper unknown paydriver. Because I don't think Stevens is really very good. About on Chilton level based on feeder series evidence.

McLaren tester Stoffel Vandoorne

[rjbetty]

McLaren tester Stoffel Vandoorne

Joe Saward thinks Giedo van der Garde has a good chance of the Manor drive.

[Tazio]

I predict Seb punks Kimi, not as badly as Fred did, but I don't think it will be all that close!

Unless they both suck. :idea:

[CNR]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117924
Sauber F1 team to fight Giedo van der Garde's claim over 2015 deal
The Dutchman says the Swiss team reneged on the deal in early November and instead handed seats to Felipe Nasr and Marcus Ericsson.

Court documents, seen by AUTOSPORT, say van der Garde took his case to a Swiss arbitral tribunal, which ruled in his favour.
""

"The Dutchman has this week brought an application before an Australian court in Melbourne, which hosts the season-opening grand prix on March 15.

Sauber says it will defend the application at a hearing on Monday."

[CNR]

Sauber may have to lone one of its drivers to manor

[CNR]

F1 driver wins bid to drive in Melb GP
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/03/11/03/34/f1-driver-to-learn-aust-grand-prix-fate#6H6f0leW1AYQzecM.99

[jens]

Stevens (???) v Mr X. I don't know, who Mr X is going to be, but I think Mr X wins, unless he is a completely no-hoper unknown paydriver. Because I don't think Stevens is really very good. About on Chilton level based on feeder series evidence.

Ok, as the #2 has been confirmed, I'd still say Mr X, meaning Roberto Merhi. He has been pretty good in some feeder formula series. Formula 3 champion and top 3 in Formula Renault 3.5. Maybe not a future star, but a solid driver for F1.

[Tazio]

Seb will punish Kimi ?

[Tazio]

Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry

[rjbetty]

I wonder if we could bring this thread up race by race and assess the drivers. I know planetf1 like to do this. I'll go first:

Mercedes: Hamilton
Red Bull: Ricciardo - maybe kinda by default but no indication Kvyat could match or beat him.
Williams: Massa
Ferrari: Vettel - not a bad start for Sebby!
McLaren: Button - kinda by default, outqualifying KMag, but then it's kinda random in that car.
Force India: Hulkenberg - Kept his head down for much needed points. Perez less reliable.
Toro Rosso: Sainz - too close to call. Both impressed though Max was held back more by mistakes/issues.
Lotus: Grosjean
Sauber: Nasr by miles. 5th was amazing.
Manor: N/A

[jens]

I wonder if we could bring this thread up race by race and assess the drivers. I know planetf1 like to do this. I'll go first:

Mercedes: Hamilton
Red Bull: Ricciardo - maybe kinda by default but no indication Kvyat could match or beat him.
Williams: Massa
Ferrari: Vettel - not a bad start for Sebby!
McLaren: Button - kinda by default, outqualifying KMag, but then it's kinda random in that car.
Force India: Hulkenberg - Kept his head down for much needed points. Perez less reliable.
Toro Rosso: Sainz - too close to call. Both impressed though Max was held back more by mistakes/issues.
Lotus: Grosjean
Sauber: Nasr by miles. 5th was amazing.
Manor: N/A

Obviously nothing to add from me, there was not any completely unforeseen development in team-mate battles in Australia.

We didn't see a straight race battle of Massa and Bottas, and the Finn will come back strong. We haven't seen anything from Manor, also not in Alonso-Button duel.

The Toro Rosso pairing is still the one, about which I am most uncertain about. Both drivers are obviously talented. And I have to say the 17-year-old Max Verstappen really impressed me on his debut. Guess with every weekend I will be more and more jumping on his bandwagon that he really is the real deal, considering all the inexperience! But Sainz is no pushover and a good driver in itself. It can go either way this year, really. But Max is likely to have a steeper learning curve long-term!

[Tazio]

Obviously nothing to add from me, there was not any completely unforeseen development in team-mate battles in Australia.

We didn't see a straight race battle of Massa and Bottas, and the Finn will come back strong. Have to disagree mate. They are calling V-Bot's injury a torn disc between the 3rd, and 4th lumbar vertebrae. That is somewhat of a generic term. More specifically he either has a herniated disc, or a ruptured disc. Even with the best treatment, a ruptured disc is not something that you should be driving an f-1race with only two weeks after the injury. If it is a small herniation, that is a different kettle of fish, although it really depends on how he responds to treatment. My guess is that he is going to be way less than 100%, and his injury is potentially much more consequential than Fred's. Tough break for dude, and he may have a mountain to climb in order to outscore Felipe this season. I wonder if they dare deputize Susie if VB can't bring it in Sepang?

[jens]

Well, one thing is sure. We have had some pretty weird injuries this season. Wish a good recovery to Bottas and hopefully it doesn't affect his driving form in (negative) way in the future.

[jens]

Taz, Bottas managed to come back and outrace Massa this time despite a bad start. Even though it was a very close fight to the finish! But it looks like for now Bottas is fine despite the injury.

Other than that - Verstappen is raising a few eyebrows. Though it is still early to tell whether he can beat Sainz over a full year, but his performance looks convincing. Also Max had strong race pace in Australia even though he had a car DNF.

Alonso got first one over Button. OK, they had a double DNF, but in the race Alonso was ahead till that point.

It is also interesting that Kvyat beat Ricciardo, but it looks like the Australian was suffering from serious brake issues. Let's see future races.
Ericsson surprised Nasr a bit in Malaysia. This is one inconsistent pairing, but Nasr should be the more talented one.

[AndyL]

Alonso got first one over Button. OK, they had a double DNF, but in the race Alonso was ahead till that point.

It was hard to compare Alonso's and Button's pace for most of the race because one or other of them was held up in traffic. But it was interesting that for a few laps just before Alonso retired and Button pitted for tyres, both were in clear air and Alonso was lapping a lot faster, like a second per lap. I guess either Alonso had preserved his tyres a lot better than Button, or he turned the engine up too much.

[steveaki13]

Can Alonso or Button be held in traffic when in the slowest cars outside Manor. :p

I know its early, but a quick personal view of the battles.

Mercedes: Hamilton seems to have got a decent advantage over Rosberg so far. They were tied together during races last season alot of the time, but Lewis appears to have gained a tad from winning that title.

Ferrari: Vettel has settled straight in and has it over Kimi as you may expect. However Kimi has had such bad luck. He has shown pace and fight. Looking forward to Kimi scoring some podiums.

Williams: Honours even in many ways. Still think Bottas is best.

Sauber: Nasr looked calm and composed in Oz, but actually had wayward pace in Malaysia. Still view him as better than Ericcson. Who showed a real mistake in Malaysia.

Red Bull: Ricciardo has the most points, but in Malaysia Kyvat seemed to match him most of the way. Could be interesting, but I can't see Daniel losing this one over the season.

Toro Rosso: What fine form this team and its young guys are in. Max Verstappen probably just edges it, for how young he is. He showed great maturity and skill in Malaysia. Sainz though is also doing a great job.

Lotus: Lotus looking decent compared to last year, however results have not arrived. I think Maldonado is again likely to waste the car and sadly after an amazing 2013, Grosjean seems unable to handle a poorer car. He is winning the battle IMO.

Force India: I dont get Hulkenberg. I thought he looked a real prospect a couple of seasons ago. He seems to have slipped up somewhat. Still would have him over Perez though.

Mclaren: I think both have been pretty even, but as its one race in its too early. I would say Alonso will just edge it.

Manor: Can't say :p

[jens]

Steve, I think Hülkenberg looks "lost" due to the car. It is so dependent on the machinery whether you leave an impression in F1 or not. Now Ricciardo in the Red Bull got lapped by Vettel in the Ferrari. All of a sudden Daniel looks "unimpressive". But we know it is the car, because he has proved to be a great racing driver.

However, I fear for the long-term futures of both Hülkenberg and Grosjean. Because their cars are not all too easy to drive despite the best power unit. They may be beating their team-mates, but with new generation coming up with the likes of the current Toro Rosso juniors, they may soon be struggling to even hang onto F1 seats. Which would be a shame.

[AndyL]

Can Alonso or Button be held in traffic when in the slowest cars outside Manor. :p

Based on Buttons amusing "I can't believe we're catching some other cars" radio message, he was as surprised about it as anyone :)

[journeyman racer]

What I ask all you fans is. Is it possible to be beaten by your teammate, and still have driven well? Because it's still possible to beat your teammate, and still be poor/slow.

[rjbetty]

Yup JR, I surely believe so.

I was gonna post here about Malaysia but realised I found it too hard to call as there were a lot of factors involved. But I will have a go.

Bear in mind this isn't set in stone and please feel free to correct me.

MERCEDES: I think Hamilton actually was much more convincing against Rosberg in 2014 than in 2013, it's just that retirements, issues and some resultant overdriving made it look super-close. Gap does seem to have eked out a bit anyway this year, but Rosberg will have his days, and still be close enough that Hammy can't be complacent.

RED BULL: Inconclusive but I say Ricciardo. He had front wing damage in Malaysia. No telling how much it cost him, but he's outqualified Kvyat handily so far.

WILLIAMS: Thought this might happen. Actually looks close. It seems Massa took time to adjust to his new team and now he's settled in. Bottas is only in his 3rd year so surely has much more scope to improve. Bottas it is.

FERRARI: Not to take anything away, but I'm interested in Kimi's underlying pace, especially in races. With clean weekends I wanna see what he can do. I think his 2014 was much worse than Vettel's so at least one driver has improved. Vettel has had the capacity to get the job done, though Kimi's issues not much his fault. Vettel.

MCLAREN: Alonso. Seemed to beat Jenson handily, but at this stage, just having the car running - in any shape - is an achievement, so harder to make conclusions.

FORCE INDIA: Totally agree about car performance/perceptions. Like Honda in 2007/2008, their drivers aren't noticed, yet in a top car they'd be making waves while driving the same. Strange world. Hulk so far.

TORO ROSSO: Had a feeling they'd be strong this year :) Sainz has impressed. They are so closely matched it's hard to tell, but surely Max will pull ahead, having more scope to improve.

LOTUS: Grosjean. Bit disappointed in the car, as with a Renault engine, I think they'd be the same as last year. :/

SAUBER: Nasr. I thought after Melbourne, Sauber must have the 4th best package out there which it seems to be.

MANOR: Merhi I think.

[jens]

What I ask all you fans is. Is it possible to be beaten by your teammate, and still have driven well? Because it's still possible to beat your teammate, and still be poor/slow.

Yeah, definitely.

If you have a driver pairing of Alonso-Hamilton, and they have a close fight on track, chances are the losing side had a strong race as well.:)

On the flipside the quality of a team-mate battle of Yuji Ide and Alex Yoong would not be particularly high, regardless of who comes out on top.

[jens]

SAUBER: Nasr. I thought after Melbourne, Sauber must have the 4th best package out there which it seems to be.


Sauber I suspect is probably going to be the package, which will be somewhat let down by drivers this year. Ericsson threw it away and Nasr was nowhere all weekend.

One striking example was Williams in 2012. Maldonado crashed a lot from good positions and Bruno Senna seriously lacked speed and was nowhere. In the end the season point-score didn't reflect anything that the car was capable of.

[jens]

So, three races gone and I’d share some thoughts.:)

Mercedes - Hamilton has a small but consistent edge. Both in Q and race so far. For some reason reminds a bit of Häkkinen v Coulthard in the McLaren haydays!

Ferrari - same thing. Vettel stays ahead in all departments, but in quali by a bigger margin.

Williams - so far little between them and Massa is even ahead. Ofc Bottas also missed a race. We will see, how this plays out, because Massa has often been prone to inconsistency. And before the season I thought consistency is going to be the deciding factor in this battle. So interesting times ahead!

Sauber - Nasr has an edge. The car is obviously good, but not bad for a rookie to sit 7th in the drivers championship

Red Bull - Ricciardo has an edge, certainly in qualis. Races are harder to judge, since they seem to have problems at every race.

Toro Rosso - it looks like Verstappen is already emerging ahead. I did think Max is most probably more talented of the two, but I was unsure how quickly would he get up to speed. He is exceeding expectations. Stunningly impressive!

Force India - Hülkenberg seems slightly more convincing, but overall little between them.

Lotus - I think the Chinese race perfectly illustrated the difference between the two of them. It is not like Maldonado lacks speed - he was even ahead of Grosjean at one point. But he threw it all away (AGAIN). Thankfully Grosjean has matured enough to the extent he can actually deliver results.

McLaren - actually seems very close between the two so far. We will see if pre-season injury and being ‘new’ to the team holds Alonso somewhat back right now, or they are going to be close all season.

Manor - they are so far back I haven’t really followed them TBH, but it seems like Stevens was actually ahead at the last race in China.

[jens]

Okay, most of the season is gone... But a quick overview…

HAM-ROS. Hamilton with a clear edge. Rosberg can have good qualis, but him having an impressive race (which he doesn’t throw away!) is a very rare sight.

VET-RAI. Vettel with a clear edge. Basically this looks like another Alonso v Massa. Or should I say Räikkönen is Vettel’s new “Webber”. Whatever it is, nothing to discuss here either.

BOT-MAS. It has been pretty even this year I have to say. And sure Massa had quite a string of results in mid-season, where he beat Bottas.

RIC-KVY. I don’t feel the points tell the full story here. Ricciardo really has had an edge most of the time, but has been hit by lots of car reliability problems. Solid effort from Kvyat, justifying the trust given to him by offering a high-profile team seat, but not a match to top echelon (yet?).

PER-HUL. Pérez is one of the revelations of the season. Especially recently has been very consistent and mistake-free. His best season clearly. In contrast Hülkenberg has been throwing races away. Hulk isn’t slow though, but is going through a lean period clearly. He better bounce back next year.

GRO-MAL. Grosjean has been the better of the two, but in all honesty I feel he hasn’t been delivering everything from the car either. He got a podium, and has had a few more good drives, but also has been making mistakes. I feel a top driver, who can consistently wring speed out of the car, would have scored clearly more points by now. Maldonado either crashes or even if he gets points, puts in an unspectacular drive and doesn’t stand out. Either way not great.

VES-SAI. I do think Sainz is perhaps closer to Verstappen than the points suggest, but Max… wow. This was supposed to be the year of ‘experimenting’ and just hoping a very young driver doesn’t crash too much. But he is delivering already.

NAS-ERI. Overall Nasr slightly better, but I feel their performance has been closer than points suggest. Nasr had a couple of big scoring races, but Ericsson had a string of mid-season races, where he beat Nasr.

BUT-ALO. Considering car’s unreliability I am unsure, how much of a guide the points are… or anything we have seen about them so far. But the ‘Button phenomenon’ works again - sure he has the ability to “somehow” get points. It really is an exceptional skill. He even outscored Hamilton, even though we all know he needed luck for this to happen. And now he is ahead of Alonso. So Button is a top driver? - he is just like a wolf dressed as a sheep - looks very unoffensive, but when the season is over and you count the scores, he is up there with the best.

STE-MER/ROS. No comments from me.

[Nitrodaze]

What I ask all you fans is. Is it possible to be beaten by your teammate, and still have driven well? Because it's still possible to beat your teammate, and still be poor/slow.

Yep, it is possible and Rosberg is testament of that. So are Massa, Ricciado, Hulkenberg, Sainz, Alonso to name a few at this very moment of the championship season.

[The Black Knight]

BUT-ALO. Considering car’s unreliability I am unsure, how much of a guide the points are… or anything we have seen about them so far. But the ‘Button phenomenon’ works again - sure he has the ability to “somehow” get points. It really is an exceptional skill. He even outscored Hamilton, even though we all know he needed luck for this to happen. And now he is ahead of Alonso. So Button is a top driver? - he is just like a wolf dressed as a sheep - looks very unoffensive, but when the season is over and you count the scores, he is up there with the best.



Yeah, Button isn't as exciting a driver to watch as say Vettel or Hamilton but he's clearly an extremely gifted driver up there with the best of them. If he outscores Alonso this year, he will be the first driver to do so in Alonso's career, having also done it to Hamilton. Yes, luck will play a part in it but that's part of the game too I guess.

[rjbetty]

Mercedes - Hamilton
Rosberg has tried a more race-oriented approach as opposed to the qualifying approach of 2014. It hasn't worked.

Ferrari - Vettel
With a car that suits him and is more competitive, Kimi simply hasn't been good enough. I think he shaded Seb in race pace early in but Vettel was settling in and is now ahead in all departments. Kimi has had some misfortune, but I think it's also true that 'you make your own luck' - there have simply been too many mistakes.

Williams - Bottas
He should be further ahead of Felipe but hasn't done well enough. He still marginally gets the nod.

Red Bull - Ricciardo
Kvyat was written off too early and sure enough he is coming into his own, and even has more points than Ricciardo! Still I think Ric is ahead, as you'd expect given his experience.

Force India - Perez
A tough one, but on balance I have to. Hulk has qualified better but lost too many points. He hasn't impressed enough on sundays.

Lotus - Grosjean
Consistent in qualifying - 15/1 is extremely impressive imo. Pastor seems to be trying a race-oriented approach but is still to finish in the top 6 whereas RoGro has a podium. Still being Pastor too much but has had bizarre misfortune too.

Toro Rosso - Verstappen
Both drivers have lost many points but clearly Verstappen is the one for the job, though the more experienced in cars Sainz heads him in qualifying.

Sauber - Nasr
Easily ahead of Ericsson on points, but also beaten by Marcus too often.

McLaren - Alonso
Narrow margin in qual for Alonso, bigger gap in races, even though Button has more points.

Manor - Stevens
Kinda by default as the 2nd car hasn't been able to be given much priority, but Stevens has still done ok.

[steveaki13]

Mercedes - Hamilton clearly wins this at a canter, seems tougher, better and more together than Rosberg this season.

Ferrari - Raikkonen started OK but I think Vettel has moved further and further away to easily win this one.

Williams - Bottas edges it for me. He has not been as good in 2015 as I had expected but in a season which is slightly disappointing he edges it IMO.

Red Bull - Tough. Both drivers have made errors and both have done well. I think Daniel is still the better overall and has won this duel for me.

Force India - I think Perez has done a super job this season and has shown Nico up at times. Hulkenberg has made errors and been all round disappointing in my eyes.

Lotus - Grosjean has been the better. Maldonado still makes to many errors and gets involved with stuff. On pace they are close, but I would rather have Romain.

Sauber - Tough one. I have been impressed by Nasr's ability at times and Ericcson's being in the right place. Nasr appears the better driver to me though.

Toro Rosso - Verstappen. Both youngsters have been very impressive at times and both have been a breath of fresh air too. Max just has that something extra to allow him to claim those two 4th places.

Mclaren - Hmmm....... close call. Alonso is probably as expected slightly quicker, but I will actually give my gong to Button. He is consistant and calm which is what Mclaren need. I think Fernando is still all in all to hot headed.

Manor - Tough call. I thought Mehri did a good job v Stevens give the situation. Rossi has also done well. Stevens has been there throughout and probably just edges it all. Close call though.

[AndyL]

Yeah, Button isn't as exciting a driver to watch as say Vettel or Hamilton but he's clearly an extremely gifted driver up there with the best of them. If he outscores Alonso this year, he will be the first driver to do so in Alonso's career, having also done it to Hamilton. Yes, luck will play a part in it but that's part of the game too I guess.

Interesting stat! Though he hasn't been outscored, Alonso has been beaten by team-mates twice in the championship standings, on countback. Once by Hamilton of course, and once by... Tarso Marquez :crazy:

[jens]

Interesting stat! Though he hasn't been outscored, Alonso has been beaten by team-mates twice in the championship standings, on countback. Once by Hamilton of course, and once by... Tarso Marquez :crazy:

Actually by Trulli as well, if we count races in which they were team-mates in 2004 (points score 46:45).

[AndyL]

Actually by Trulli as well, if we count races in which they were team-mates in 2004 (points score 46:45).

So it turns out this Alonso guy is a load of rubbish :D

[steveaki13]

I love the fact that Tarso Marques beat Alonso in a pointless season.

:D I think it was Malaysia that season Tarso outshone him on track.

[rjbetty]

I love the fact that Tarso Marques beat Alonso in a pointless season.

:D I think it was Malaysia that season Tarso outshone him on track.

Yeah it was, I think Alonso must have had some issues though since he's a bit of a specialist at that track.

Nurburgring as well. Tarso also did well there in '97.

[jens]

Wikipedia shows that Marques got his 9th places finishes in Brazil and Canada - both were races with lots of DNF-s. I don't remember Marques ever outshining Alonso during 2001 - it was Alonso, who had the skills to mix it with Benettons, Arrows, Burti, on occasion others, regularly. But reliability rates were pretty low that year, and if you happened to simply finish in the "right race", where lots of rivals fell off, you could get a good position.

[steveaki13]

Wikipedia shows that Marques got his 9th places finishes in Brazil and Canada - both were races with lots of DNF-s. I don't remember Marques ever outshining Alonso during 2001 - it was Alonso, who had the skills to mix it with Benettons, Arrows, Burti, on occasion others, regularly. But reliability rates were pretty low that year, and if you happened to simply finish in the "right race", where lots of rivals fell off, you could get a good position.

Generally of course he didnt, but Malaysia saw Tarso out qualify him by half a second and run ahead most of the race until a tyre blow out I think.

[jens]

Generally of course he didnt, but Malaysia saw Tarso out qualify him by half a second and run ahead most of the race until a tyre blow out I think.

OK.:) Well I didn't remember that. Though I remember the loose wheel of Minardi running down the backstraight.

[steveaki13]

OK.:) Well I didn't remember that. Though I remember the loose wheel of Minardi running down the backstraight.

Yes. The Minardi had been running on wets into dry conditions and it threw a tread

[Nitrodaze]

I have to say, few are really noticing Kyvat who has been quite consistent in beating Ricciado most of this season. He is 4 points ahead of Ricciado in the driver championship table. The thing is that, he has quietly done so. He is overshadowed by Ricciado's popularity such that his achievements are being underestimated. I am beginning to rate this guy as a top racer.

[jens]

Kvyat is doing a good job, but I can't agree he is overshadowing Ricciardo. Just to bring some examples - Ricciardo was ahead in both Belgium and Russia before he retired with car problems. And there have been more examples than that.

However, I am quietly impressed how the younger Dan is coming to his own in F1, but he needs to prove more before getting considered as a top driver. Years have proven pretty convincingly there must be a clear line between a 'pretender' and the 'real deal'.

[N. Jones]

Hamilton over Rosberg
Ricciardo over Kvyat
Bottas ties Massa
Vettel way over Räikkönen
Alonso over Button
Hülkenberg over Pérez
Verstappen over Sainz jr
Grosjean over Maldonado
Nasr - Ericsson cold go either way
Rossi over Stevens

[Nitrodaze]

Kvyat is doing a good job, but I can't agree he is overshadowing Ricciardo. Just to bring some examples - Ricciardo was ahead in both Belgium and Russia before he retired with car problems. And there have been more examples than that.

However, I am quietly impressed how the younger Dan is coming to his own in F1, but he needs to prove more before getting considered as a top driver. Years have proven pretty convincingly there must be a clear line between a 'pretender' and the 'real deal'.

I didn't think he was overshadowing Ricciado, if you read my post carefully. He is only 4 points ahead. He is showing that he deserves the seat at redbull. His position has increasingly being under some pressure recently by the great performances of the Torro Rosso rookies, particularly Verstapenn. He is in a fight to hang on to his seat for 2017. A strong finish to this season and a stronger 2016 with less mistakes is what he needs.