Rally Guanajuato México 2015

[rayh_mx]

First version

Route Maps 2015 (http://www.rallymexico.com/files/rep/MapasRutaMx15V1.pdf)
Itinerary 2015 (http://www.rallymexico.com/files/rep/ItineraryMx15V1.pdf)
Rally Guide 1 (http://www.rallymexico.com/files/rep/RG1Mx15.pdf)

Cheers!!

[rayh_mx]

The rally route and spectator areas
Google Earth file (http://www.rallymexico.com/files/rep/Rally_Guanajuato_Corona_2015%2C_Official_Google_Ea rth_Rally_Guide_1.0.kmz)

[bluuford]

Benito Guerra will start with Fiesta WRC by M-Sport
Some entries:
WRC
1. Ogier Polo WRC
2. Latvala Polo WRC
3. Mikkelsen Polo WRC
4. Meeke DS3 WRC
5. Ostberg DS3 WRC
6. Evans Fiesta WRC
7. Tänak Fiesta WRC
8. Neuville I20 WRC
9. Sordo I20 WRC
10. Paddon I20 WRC
11. Kubica Fiesta WRC
12. Guerra Fiesta WRC
13. Bertelli Fiesta WRC
WRC2:
1. Ketomaa Fiesta R5
2. Tempestini Subaru

Protasov?
etc.

[rayh_mx]

According to the manufacturer list entries published by the FIA, is also
21 Jipocar Czech National Team
Martin Prokop (CZE)
Jan Tomanek (CZE)

http://www.fia.com/2015-rally-guanajuato-mexico-list-manufacturer-entries

[samWRC]

There was some news that Henning Solberg should drive in Mexico or am I right about that.

[jbmarcus21]

Google Earth Map Mexico'15 is out http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-mexique-2015/

[rayh_mx]

In the event, to be held from 5 to 8 March 34 participating cars, of which 16 belong to Group 1 World Rally Cars.

The 16 cars of WRC 2 division will be led by Nasser Al-Attiyah, who won the Dakar Rally.

http://deportes.terra.com.mx/presentan-rally-de-guanajuato-2015,75a95515e207b410VgnCLD200000b2bf46d0RCRD.html

[rayh_mx]

There was some news that Henning Solberg should drive in Mexico or am I right about that.
I also read about this:

The rally CEO, Gilles Spitalier said with confirmation of Norwegian Henning Solberg and Ukrainian Yuri Protasov ... blah blah

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldeleon/notas/n3697492.htm

[rayh_mx]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7397/16300708117_b9c9d6a2a8_c.jpg

[jbmarcus21]

Entrylist 2015 Mexico is out (include Guerra+ HSolberg) http://bit.ly/1BCZV8x

[Andre Oliveira]

No RC3 crews :) and only one RC4

[samWRC]

Entrylist 2015 Mexico is out (include Guerra+ HSolberg) http://bit.ly/1BCZV8x

Al-Kuwari's number must be wrong because he has 37 like Bertelli. Not very much crews in the list but it is nothing new for Mexico.

[Tom206wrc]

I don't remember if Mexico was in program of Stéphane Lefèbvre at the beginning of the season :confused:

[dimviii]

http://instagram.com/p/zMc4INpzFh

[samWRC]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2015/guerra-returns/page/2229--12-12-.html
Henning will not start.

[b3637853]

And why is Protasov doing WRC-2 in Mexico? I thought he will focus on WRC this year.

[A FONDO]

And why is Protasov doing WRC-2 in Mexico? I thought he will focus on WRC this year.

Money. He will do Mexico and Argentina in WRC2 and if results are good he will continue the season in that category.

http://cs621331.vk.me/v621331473/fbcf/0TK_TgHZ9lI.jpg

http://cs621331.vk.me/v621331765/146d3/xO0i84KIGqE.jpg

[tommeke_B]

I don't remember if Mexico was in program of Stéphane Lefèbvre at the beginning of the season :confused:

It's likely he will do all WRC events this year. ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport drivers on Rally Mexico:

Elfyn Evans said:

"I've got some good memories from Mexico. Last year was a bit of a surprise result for us. It's a tricky event and a lot of people had problems which we were able to capitalise on. It's important to keep out of trouble and if we can do that again whilst showing an increase in speed it could be another good event. We're keen to carry the performance forward from Monte and Sweden, just without the mistakes!

"We've not rallied on dry gravel since September last year so it's a bit of a strange feeling initially. We were able to do two full days of testing this week though and the feeling is more or less back so that's good.

"The heat is a big part of this event, and when you combine that with the high altitude you have to be in peak physical condition. It can be a bit of a shock to the system so we'll head out a little earlier to do some fitness training and get fully acclimatised.

"The climate affects the car too. There's a significant reduction in power so you have to be really smooth and not so aggressive with your driving style. Mistakes are harder to recover. If you scrub speed before a long straight or sequence of fast corners the engine doesn't have the power to carry you through and you can lose a lot of time. It's really important to keep momentum and have a good rhythm; you can almost compare it to driving a front-wheel-drive car like the [Ford] Fiesta R2."

Ott Tänak said:

"I'm looking forward to driving on gravel again and Mexico is a great event. The stages are really nice and smooth and the atmosphere means that it's always a lot of fun.

"We had a two-day test this week and it was good to see that we were able to get back up to speed fairly quickly. It's always a bit strange going back to gravel after so long, but it felt good and we are feeling well prepared.

"We also try to prepare as much as possible for the heat and altitude but that is not always so easy. I have a sauna every night but that's not quite the same, so we'll head out to Mexico a little earlier than usual to get used to the conditions.

"The altitude is the hardest part. It's hard on the crews but it's also hard on the cars. There's a lot less power so you need to think about that when you're in the stages. You need to be very clean and precise and make sure that you keep the speed up all the time.

"The stages on the first day are quite tricky so it will be important to make it through them cleanly without any problems. Then, if the feeling is there, we can look to push a bit more. The main thing is to keep everything clean and tidy – if we can do that and gradually build the speed then it could be a good event for us."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai with engine upgrade for Mexico:

Hyundai has chosen the demanding event to introduce a modified fuel injection system, which it says will help counter the effects of power loss caused by the high altitude stages.

Team drivers Thierry Neuville, Hayden Paddon and Dani Sordo fine-tuned their Mexico set-ups at pre-event test in the Extremadura region of Spain last week. The engine was given an extra test at the team’s base in Germany.

“The altitude will be one of the key factors in this rally so we have tested these conditions on the engine test bench,” explained Team Principal Michel Nandan. “We also continued to test our paddle shift, which still needs some fine-tuning, but we are confident this will be ready for Argentina.”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ostberg / Citroen on Rally Mexico:

Mads Ostberg is welcoming a return to gravel for the World Rally Championship and warns the slightest error could be costly at the third round in Mexico.

The Citroen Total Abu Dhabi team says it has made significant upgrades during the off-season to the DS 3 WRC's engine, transmission, chassis, suspension and aerodynamics which will combat the tricky conditions of Rally Guanajuato Mexico.

The rally is runs over 1,800 metres above sea-level and often in very hot temperatures, providing an almost opposition challenge to the snow in Sweden last time out.

“I'm pleased to be back on gravel for this third event,” Ostberg said. “Rally Mexico is a great course and I have always been competitive on the stages here. It's good to be back in Leon and leave the Norwegian winter behind!

“I love the local culture, the welcome and the atmosphere you get around the rally. Last year, I held the overall lead for part of the rally. But it's difficult to get the balance perfectly right – you therefore need to adjust your driving style to counter the effects of the altitude.”

Mexico represents are relatively happy hunting ground for Ostberg, who won five stages last season in the DS 3 WRC and lead between SS3 and SS9 before slipping away and eventually finishing ninth.

“The secret is to be even more focussed than usual, because the slightest error can prove very costly,” Ostberg said. “And with less engine power, it is almost impossible to make up the time lost by a minor mistake. The stages are flowing, fast and not too rough.

“We're going to see how the upgrades to our DS 3 WRC respond on gravel. It will allow us to check whether the team's hard work has paid off and to continue to learn for the rest of the season. We are going to do our best, avoid making any mistakes and adopt a good rhythm so we are on the pace.”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Recent Meeke interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Jcq89dgAI

[rayh_mx]

Official APP Rally Guanajuato Mexico 2015
iOS (https://itunes.apple.com/mx/app/rally-mexico/id825770255?mt=8)

Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pixzelle.rally.mexico&hl=es)

[janvanvurpa]

I am confused...not an unusual thing really, but all these people referring to significant power loss from the moderate altitude that Dubya Arsey Mexico runs at makes me wonder ifall these people have forgotten that one the WRC cars there is something very much like this:
http://www.kosunenracing.com/images/wrc.jpg

I userstand that there is ever so slightly less air at 1700m and maybe if all the cars were normally aspirated I would understand better...But many of them have those funny things...and the cars have MAP sensors..At altitude if there is "less air" and less barometric pressure, the ECU should be controlling the wastegate to spin the little turbos a bit faster---and compensate for the "less air" in the ambient environment by stuffing in around 17-18% more air, and then to the motor, its happy as a pig in the mud...

Maybe if I had not grown up in and around aircraft that operated from sea level to 8000m and had nice clear explanations of how the 2 stage superchargers worked so the engine made maximum power at very high altitudes..
For some simple reading on this look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin

A.C. Lovesey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Lovesey), an engineer who was a key figure in the design of the Merlin, delivered a lecture on the development of the Merlin in 1946; in this extract he explained the importance of the supercharger:
"The impression still prevails that the static capacity known as the swept volume is the basis of comparison of the possible power output for different types of engine, but this is not the case because the output of the engine depends solely on the mass of air it can be made to consume efficiently, and in this respect the supercharger plays the most important role ... the engine has to be capable of dealing with the greater mass flows with respect to cooling, freedom from detonation and capable of withstanding high gas and inertia loads ... During the course of research and development on superchargers it became apparent to us that any further increase in the altitude performance of the Merlin engine necessitated the employment of a two-stage supercharger."[29]






(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin#cite_note-31)



They know how to compensate and max power so long ago, have all these people forgotten? Or believe we have never heard of how turbo (and superchargers0 do this?

I have raced at 1700-1800m in a sport just a weeee bit more physically challenging and much longer duration, and with n.a. motors.. I assure you I suffered more than the engine.

What's the big que paso?

[Munkvy]

Perhaps its due to the map limits? They are only allowed to run 2.5 bar from memory, so if they are already at that, they can't stuff more air into the engines?

[stefanvv]

I am confused...not an unusual thing really, but all these people referring to significant power loss from the moderate altitude that Dubya Arsey Mexico runs at makes me wonder ifall these people have forgotten that one the WRC cars there is something very much like this:
http://www.kosunenracing.com/images/wrc.jpg

I userstand that there is ever so slightly less air at 1700m and maybe if all the cars were normally aspirated I would understand better...But many of them have those funny things...and the cars have MAP sensors..At altitude if there is "less air" and less barometric pressure, the ECU should be controlling the wastegate to spin the little turbos a bit faster---and compensate for the "less air" in the ambient environment by stuffing in around 17-18% more air, and then to the motor, its happy as a pig in the mud...

Maybe if I had not grown up in and around aircraft that operated from sea level to 8000m and had nice clear explanations of how the 2 stage superchargers worked so the engine made maximum power at very high altitudes..
For some simple reading on this look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin


They know how to compensate and max power so long ago, have all these people forgotten? Or believe we have never heard of how turbo (and superchargers0 do this?

I have raced at 1700-1800m in a sport just a weeee bit more physically challenging and much longer duration, and with n.a. motors.. I assure you I suffered more than the engine.

What's the big que paso?

May be they just need to do different ECU mapping and handle some overheating due to the bigger volume of air flow?!?

[Criterium]

If you are limited in air volume by the restrictor and in turbo pressure (relative, not absolute) you can't easily change the air pressure in the cylinder. A easy way to cope with this sad situation for sport and spectacle could be to allow higher restrictor diameter and slightly higher tubo pressure for this round. But it seems a too simple solution for FIA policy makers.
For info the course runs between 1800 and 2737m.

[A FONDO]

Why should the power be like in other events? Actually it is better here. If you lose momentum it is more difficult to recover so if you drive cleverly, you will be rewarded and who drives careless will be punished.

[Criterium]

- We can't say that power is overabundant elsewhere.
- The work on mapping that allows some manufacturer(s) to limit the loss is so expensive, creating significant inequalities.
In French we say "Tout ça pour si peu"...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Service Park alreday taking shape...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-5NKkPW8AAqwGf.jpg

[Criterium]

In Mexico VW poles replace the Hyundai building.

[janvanvurpa]

- We can't say that power is overabundant elsewhere.
- The work on mapping that allows some manufacturer(s) to limit the loss is so expensive, creating significant inequalities.
In French we say "Tout ça pour si peu"...

Vrai mais....that's the nature of EVERYTHING when the rules are so perfectly and extensif tailored...

[dimviii]

Nicolas Gilsoul ‏@nicolasgilsoul 22 λεπτάΠριν από 22 λεπτά
New #partnership for @RallyMexico : @QuakerState is a brand of @Shell group. #Wrc #Welcomeonmydoor #HyundaiWRC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Crq64UoAAyEQo.jpg

[AL14]

So it seems it will be sunny. Ogier will have a hard time in there, first two days cover more than 300km if I remember right...Same for Neuville. If Latvala wasn't Latvala he would have the victory in the bag. Ostberg as well has a nice start position and if Meeke stays in the road will be a good rally for him too.

We will enjoy the challenge for sure although honestly I don't like new rules in events like this one, even if it means that there will be another exciting battle. It's not fair that Ogier have barely no chance to win it unless others go off.

[stefanvv]

Yes it'll be really hard for Ogier this time, if it doesn't rain a bit which I doubt. If he manages to keep not so big (20-30 secs) margin Guanajuatito on Sunday will be decider, and probably he can clearly win there.

[Ounin]

Yes, Ogier has to clear the road as well as Neuville, but they do all special stages on Friday and Saturday twice so clearing the road on second leg is not so much disadvantage as you would think. I hope Neuville makes the difference here and this year without a bottle of Corona...! Maybe Mikkelsen has extra pepper since Sweden and Tänak grabs a last rare chance for Ford....

[makinen_fan]

Interesting stage-end interviews coming ahead!!! We will hear a lot of moaning this weekend from Seb...

[stefanvv]

Yes, Ogier has to clear the road as well as Neuville, but they do all special stages on Friday and Saturday twice so clearing the road on second leg is not so much disadvantage as you would think. I hope Neuville makes the difference here and this year without a bottle of Corona...! Maybe Mikkelsen has extra pepper since Sweden and Tänak grabs a last rare chance for Ford....

You mean second pass? Yes, this will be the point where he could eliminate some time lost on the first passes, but I'm afraid the loss will be much bigger he can compensate by driving on 2nd. We'll, see interesting Rally ahead with lot of "moaning":D

[AL14]

yes second pass will be not that disadvantage, and on saturday there will be rally2 drivers opening the road. But it still isn't a little handicap for him. For sure if Latvala is in his day he has no chance in my opinion.

[stefanvv]

yes second pass will be not that disadvantage, and on saturday there will be rally2 drivers opening the road. But it still isn't a little handicap for him. For sure if Latvala is in his day he has no chance in my opinion.

That is probably so. May be even Neuville can turn into black horse if Hyunday has done something good with the engine...

[AL14]

Let's see. We have to wait 4 long days ;)

[stefanvv]

4 days? That long, can't wait

[Mintexmemory]

I suspect that just like John McEnroe in tennis M. Ogier has to get what we call 'the hump' in London, before he can perform at his optimum. So yes those of you who think he's preparing a long excuse right from the end of the first stage and get on his case because of it, think again. He might just function at his best when the world is against him!

[EightGear]

He might just function at his best when the world is against him!

That's what he's believing for some years now.

[AL14]

Meanwhile Andreas Mikkelsen reaches Mexico
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=943372359015351&set=vr.943372359015351&type=2&theater

[dimviii]

That is probably so. May be even Neuville can turn into black horse if Hyunday has done something good with the engine...

i dont expect someting good from Neuville at Mexico.At high altitude and gravel the true potential of car will be crucial.

[AL14]

i dont expect someting good from Neuville at Mexico.At high altitude and gravel the true potential of car will be crucial.

me neither. I think he will probably go off because now he's tasted the sweet flavour of top places with his hyundai (in an almost straight fight) and seeing himself back after first stages due to gravel and engine will make him push a bit more than usual, that is when a crash can happen.
I hope I'm wrong though.

[stefanvv]

Well, last year was great for him in Mexico, despite the beer:D. May be he would believe himself too much after Sweden, but doesn't seem like that kind of person, besides is capable of continuing the race even with lot of risks involved, I don't know how he is doing it, may be just luck, may be not....

[nafpaktos]

Ι think the starting position will be for him bigger problem than for ogier,and for sure i dont expect to see from him a similar to sweden performance.suddenly the neuville- hyundai combination cannot be a winning one because of a good result.so no high hopes for them.

[Leon]

He might just function at his best when the world is against him!

I guess for the second day some superrally cars will be in front of him so not much sweeping of the road....

[rayh_mx]

Last year in El Chocolate stage Ostberg went pretty well, even won if nomal remember, one of the last of this stage and is quite long.

I think Meeke and Ostberg be at the top the first day.

Mexico Latvala knows well Mexico, however, stones, stones are cursed his undoing

[rayh_mx]

Let's see. We have to wait 4 long days ;)

Tell me about it, I want to see dust

[rayh_mx]

Mexico poses a unique challenge for WRC teams as they can reach altitudes of up to 2700 meters above sea level and high temperatures. The dizzying heights, with less oxygen in the air, have a stifling effect on engines, reducing their usual potential around 30 percent.

Hyundai has chosen this demanding test to debut a modified injection system fuel, saying it will help to counteract the effects of the power loss caused by sections located at high altitude.

Team drivers, Thierry Neuville, Dani Sordo and Hayden Paddon have been tuning their cars to Mexico with a previous test in the Extremadura region this week. The engine also has been further tested in the team's base in Germany.

"The altitude is one of the key factors in this Rally, so we have tried these conditions in the engine test bench. We also continue testing our shift paddles, which still needs some tweaking, but we are confident that this will be ready to Argentina ".has explained team director Michel Nandan.

Mexico brings back fond memories for Hyundai as it was in this Rally where Korean brand achieved his first podium in the WRC a year ago, when Neuville finished third in the third race of the team.

This year, Hyundai reaches Mexico occupying second place in the championship of brands and pilots after Neuville creditable second place in the Swedish Rally earlier this month.

http://www.am.com.mx/leon/rally2015/hyundai-presentara-nuevo-motor-en-rally-mexico-2015-184351.html

[EstWRC]

WRC2 test yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyAQqS_2g50&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsegBFTbEIlNoMK06RBxtBn&index=1

[satukata]

4 days? That long, can't wait

2 days still... can´t wait

New Rules makes rally much more interesting!

Now we have 5-7 candidates for win. last year we have only J-M and Ogier

very interesting rally comeing

[dimviii]

lol

Julian Porter ‏@The_Rally_Guru
Gives a whole new meaning to the rallying letters "SSS" : in this case "SSS" means Stage Side Shitters!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_MiABIUoAAMre1.jpg

[AL14]

Rally drivers don't care about clothes and dirty their hands together with their mechanics. Or at least Kubica does :)

515

516

517

518

P.S. Can someone help me to publish these pictures with original size?

[N.O.T]

no, the ugliness is too much... small size is good enough.

[makinen_fan]

P.S. Can someone help me to publish these pictures with original size?

When typing the URL do not select the "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" option

[thuGG]

no, the ugliness is too much... small size is good enough.

Then why did you even click on those? Are you retarded?

[N.O.T]

Then why did you even click on those? Are you retarded?

i did not... saw his name and assumed that the 30 year old with the looks of a 50 year old would be in.

[thuGG]

Then yes, you are retarded if even assumption can hurt your eyes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

RALLY MÉXICO: Forecast of possible thunder and rain for this Thursday in Guanajuato...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Qh8u6VAAER37_.jpg

[rayh_mx]

I was reading a publication of DiarioMotor (http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2015/03/03/todo-lo-que-necesitas-saber-del-rally-de-mexico-2015/) in which they say that VW claims that are lost up to 100 hp at altitude ... a turbo engine?

Live in the City of Mexico, normally we are at 2,200 meters above sea level, I'm traveling very constantly to Cuernavaca (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuernavaca/), a city that is 85 km south of Mexico City, with an average altitude of 1700 m asl. on the way is the highest point between the two cities called "La Cima" with 3,100 m asl.

If my car, that isn't turbo as the WRC, but if lost, 100 hp ... would have to push to get.

I gues VW exaggerate the power loss. At 3,100m in aspirated engine, you can feel it, but in a turbo, the loss is laughable.

[Antony Warmbold]

I was reading a publication of DiarioMotor (http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2015/03/03/todo-lo-que-necesitas-saber-del-rally-de-mexico-2015/) in which they say that VW claims that are lost up to 100 hp at altitude ... a turbo engine?

Live in the City of Mexico, normally we are at 2,200 meters above sea level, I'm traveling very constantly to Cuernavaca (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuernavaca/), a city that is 85 km south of Mexico City, with an average altitude of 1700 m asl. on the way is the highest point between the two cities called "La Cima" with 3,100 m asl.

If my car, that isn't turbo as the WRC, but if lost, 100 hp ... would have to push to get.

I gues VW exaggerate the power loss. At 3,100m in aspirated engine, you can feel it, but in a turbo, the loss is laughable.

I can confirm that in a WRC car, the power difference in this rally is big and it is definitely noticeable.

[stefanvv]

I was reading a publication of DiarioMotor (http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2015/03/03/todo-lo-que-necesitas-saber-del-rally-de-mexico-2015/) in which they say that VW claims that are lost up to 100 hp at altitude ... a turbo engine?

Live in the City of Mexico, normally we are at 2,200 meters above sea level, I'm traveling very constantly to Cuernavaca (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuernavaca/), a city that is 85 km south of Mexico City, with an average altitude of 1700 m asl. on the way is the highest point between the two cities called "La Cima" with 3,100 m asl.

If my car, that isn't turbo as the WRC, but if lost, 100 hp ... would have to push to get.

I gues VW exaggerate the power loss. At 3,100m in aspirated engine, you can feel it, but in a turbo, the loss is laughable.

wrc car has 300+ bhp. The theory is that the loss is 20-30%. Do the math.

[Mirek]

Normal atmospheric pressure at sea level is 101 kPa. At 2000 it is cca 80 kPa. That means with naturally aspirated engine You loose cca 20% of the inlet pressure. The difference in density with the altitude shall be similar, roughly around 20%. I'm not an engine engineer to count what is the approximate impact on the engine power but with turbo charging You must loose way less in percentage of the inlet pressure because the higher the inlet pressure the lower the impact of atmospheric pressure. If turbocharger gives 250 kPa at sea level and it looses 20 kPa at 2000 meters it's 8% less.

As I said I'm not expert on this but just yesterday I saw some data for old supercharged Soviet aircraft piston engine Klimov VK-107 from WW2. The inlet pressure was roughly 145 kPa and the engine lost 12% of power between 0 and 2800 meters. At such altitude the normal atmospheric pressure is roughly 72 kPa which means nearly 30% down compared to the sea level value.

100 Hp is a little less than 30% of normal WRC power. Such number is nonsense in my opinion.

[rayh_mx]

wrc car has 300+ bhp. The theory is that the loss is 20-30%. Do the math.

If Pythagoras not lie, teams are right about the loss of 100 BHP, especially considering that the evidence of these engines make at low altitudes.

Loss power theory of 20 - 30% is based on normal aspiration engines.


Fom Here (http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-07642006000500005) (Sorry, is in spanish) Whit many references

Altitude indicated power decreases significantly, and therefore effective, developed by a naturally aspirated engine, the entire range of revs. However, this effect is reduced to about feeding turbo engine, and may even offset this reduction at high speed (RPM).

We have obtained an expression for calculating the increase in compression ratio turbo necessary to avoid any loss of power with increasing altitude.

[RICARDO75]

I was reading a publication of DiarioMotor (http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2015/03/03/todo-lo-que-necesitas-saber-del-rally-de-mexico-2015/) in which they say that VW claims that are lost up to 100 hp at altitude ... a turbo engine?

Live in the City of Mexico, normally we are at 2,200 meters above sea level, I'm traveling very constantly to Cuernavaca (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuernavaca/), a city that is 85 km south of Mexico City, with an average altitude of 1700 m asl. on the way is the highest point between the two cities called "La Cima" with 3,100 m asl.

If my car, that isn't turbo as the WRC, but if lost, 100 hp ... would have to push to get.

I gues VW exaggerate the power loss. At 3,100m in aspirated engine, you can feel it, but in a turbo, the loss is laughable.

Rally Guanajuato México 2015: Tech Special/ Turbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IpcAMD7Cwo&feature=em-uploademail

[bluuford]

I was reading this article in spanish and I can see from the figures that in 2000m the air pressure decreases approximately 20%, in addition to that, air has a but different composition, also oxigen content decreases 3%, and oxigen is the most important factor in fuel burning process. So, we have lower airpressure and lower oxigen content as well.

Sry I have had not much time for forecast. However, it is desert. No big surprises apart from couple of small isolated thunders in the Thursday evening/night. Seesm that there should be no problems with too low wind and dust.. at least until Saturday afternoon...

Greetings form London

[stefanvv]

If Pythagoras not lie, teams are right about the loss of 100 BHP, especially considering that the evidence of these engines make at low altitudes.

Loss power theory of 20 - 30% is based on normal aspiration engines.


Fom Here (http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-07642006000500005) (Sorry, is in spanish) Whit many references

Altitude indicated power decreases significantly, and therefore effective, developed by a naturally aspirated engine, the entire range of revs. However, this effect is reduced to about feeding turbo engine, and may even offset this reduction at high speed (RPM).

We have obtained an expression for calculating the increase in compression ratio turbo necessary to avoid any loss of power with increasing altitude.

I just pointed out that on Your car there is no way to lose 100 bhp if You claim it is under 100:). I don't know how much turbo compensates this loss of power, if I remember right Wilson claimed for 25% 2-3 years ago, but that is probably just media blow. For sure with some mappings this number can be reduced to minimum.

[AL14]

RALLY MÉXICO: Forecast of possible thunder and rain for this Thursday in Guanajuato...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Qh8u6VAAER37_.jpg

So it's true that Ogier was dancing every night together with Ingrassia in front of a bonfire, and with very strange clothes :D

[rayh_mx]

In the end this altitude, the oxygen level, the loss of power and other factors, is the perfect pretext from which they make a mistake and get out of the way....

I accelerated but since I did not bring the power and... I went for a walk to the hill :p

[noel157]

Weather on Thursday no big deal, Friday onwards it may be an issue.

[N.O.T]

Weather on Thursday no big deal, Friday onwards it may be an issue.

It is if the stages get really wet....

[Mariusz]

It's March in Mexico, there is no way for the roads to be wet.

[rayh_mx]

In Mexico it says: February crazy, March little more. Febrero loco, marzo otro poco. Speaking about of climate

Last year a very light rain fell at early morning

[AL14]

It's March in Mexico, there is no way for the roads to be wet.

If it rains on thursday evening/night there is no way road aren't wet at 8am in Friday, even in Sahara.

[Mariusz]

That's not the kind of rain that is expected. For me it's just scattered thunderstorms and showers between 7pm and 9pm. But I'm not bluuford, so take it easy.

[Mirek]

I just pointed out that on Your car there is no way to lose 100 bhp if You claim it is under 100:). I don't know how much turbo compensates this loss of power, if I remember right Wilson claimed for 25% 2-3 years ago, but that is probably just media blow. For sure with some mappings this number can be reduced to minimum.


I was reading this article in spanish and I can see from the figures that in 2000m the air pressure decreases approximately 20%, in addition to that, air has a but different composition, also oxigen content decreases 3%, and oxigen is the most important factor in fuel burning process. So, we have lower airpressure and lower oxigen content as well.

If 70 years old aircraft engine with 3x less overboost looses some 12% of power at 2800 meters than there is no way that 2015 WRC engine would loose 20% at 2000 meters. I believe something between 5 and 10% could be real.

[danon]

http://s1.postimg.org/3u7gox72n/mex_wc.jpg

[dimviii]

danon the photoshop expert.

[bluuford]

That's not the kind of rain that is expected. For me it's just scattered thunderstorms and showers between 7pm and 9pm. But I'm not bluuford, so take it easy.

You have good logical thinking. Yes, this is completely different thunder, very isolated and not with so mcuh water. Moreover, ground temperature before the shower is often +40..+50 degrees. There are no signs of this shower by next morning. Look at the cactus, their look and morphology is not just for fashion, it is practical reason.

[danon]

danon the photoshop expert.

A little treat... "Arrogant BOSS - Reserve"

Cheers!!!

http://s4.postimg.org/l9pfn4lfh/BOSS.jpg

[OldF]

I used few air pressure calculator which also take into account the temperature (I used 25 C) and calculates the density and pressure.

http://www.baranidesign.com/air-density/air-density.htm (temp & density)
http://www.denysschen.com/catalogue/density.aspx (temp & density)
http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/ (temp & density & pressure)
http://www.mide.com/products/slamstick/air-pressure-altitude-calculator.php (temp & pressure)
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/kinetic/barfor.html (temp & pressure)

Results I got (compared to sea level = 101325 Pa).

1000 m / 89900 Pa: - 11,3%
1500 m / 84500 Pa: - 16,6%
2000 m / 79500 Pa: - 21,5%
2500 m / 74700 Pa: - 26,3%

The max flow true a restrictor can be calculated with the formula or calculator found on this page:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/mflchk.html

Using a formula I once found I calculated also the power. I don’t know how close to the truth the values are that I used but should be good enough for comparison.

Power (PS) = 3600 * airflow (kg/s) / BSFC * air to fuel ratio

I used BSFC = 0,17 (kg of fuel per hour per horsepower) and AF = 13.

Sea level: 330,4 PS
1000 m: 293,2 PS
1500 m: 275,6 PS
2000 m: 259,2 PS
2500 m: 243,6 PS

[Criterium]

Your calculation does not take into account that the internal frictions remain almost constant for every scenario. Then the BSFC (which includes global efficiency) should decrease with the elevation.

[A FONDO]

So compared to normal rallies like Monte they lose about 50 horses, not 100

[COD]

So compared to normal rallies like Monte they lose about 50 horses, not 100

That would sound more accurate in my opinion. A driver can clearly feel such difference

[Fast Eddie WRC]

‏@JariMattiWRC : Hola! Qué onda? ;-) Are you ready for the dust? We are too & shakedown will start soon!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Vx26DUsAEfPl5.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Teams on their way to SD...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Vp_cqUsAAIiRd.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_VzYjAUcAAqrJl.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Rally Guanajuato México 2015: Tech Special / Turbo is a clear explanation, no need for all the calculations guys... ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IpcAMD7Cwo

[stefanvv]

Looks like Ogier will have some challenge after all
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-sport.fr%2Fogier-loccasion-degaler-loeb%2F&edit-text= (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-sport.fr%2Fogier-loccasion-degaler-loeb%2F&edit-text=)

[RICARDO75]

Rally Guanajuato México 2015: Tech Special/ Turbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IpcAMD7Cwo&feature=em-uploademail


WRC Rally Guanajuato México 2015: Tech Special / Turbo is a clear explanation, no need for all the calculations guys... ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IpcAMD7Cwo

It was posted here 24h ago

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/s480x480/11025754_798125310267526_3258597103791993212_n.jpg ?oh=d8c8a97ad495862d7ee6dadd911d6321&oe=557FADBE&__gda__=1433611918_ec1228ac779e6ae1f5832c6f07ca044 e

[rayh_mx]

I'm already getting stuffs ready for adventure. Today it's El Chocolate I think I'll be there on a 100m straight with a mini river. I hope to take good photos and will post as I have internet again ... it will be Monday or Tuesday: p

[N.O.T]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/s480x480/11025754_798125310267526_3258597103791993212_n.jpg ?oh=d8c8a97ad495862d7ee6dadd911d6321&oe=557FADBE&__gda__=1433611918_ec1228ac779e6ae1f5832c6f07ca044 e

Στους Βωξιτες το κανανε το shakedown ?

[stefanvv]

There You go, shakedown classification ATM:


1
Ogier
Polo WRC
3’55’3
3’52’3


2
Latvala
Polo WRC
3’57’4
3’54’6


3
Ostberg
DS3 WRC
3’59’4
3’54’8


4
Neuville
i20 WRC
4’00’7
3’55’4


5
Meeke
DS3 WRC
3’55’5



6
Tänak
Fiesta WRC
4’03’9
3’56’2


7
Kubica
Fiesta WRC
3’56’3



8
Mikkelsen
Polo WRC
4’03’3
3’57’3


9
Paddon
i20 WRC
4’01’0
3’57’4


10
Evans
Fiesta WRC
4’01’2
3’58’0


11
Sordo
i20 WRC
4’00’3



12
Prokop
Fiesta WRC
4’04’2



13
Guerra
Fiesta WRC
4’04’9

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WHQUhUIAEEQz4.jpg

[AL14]

Where I found those times? Any link?

[stefanvv]

Where I found those times? Any link?

here for example - http://www.rallye-sport.fr/classement-shakedown-mexique-2015/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_V9PPwUwAA8Kfi.jpg:large

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WJBDrU8AAdd_Q.jpg:large

[AL14]

here for example - http://www.rallye-sport.fr/classement-shakedown-mexique-2015/

Thanks!

[stefanvv]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WJBDrU8AAdd_Q.jpg:large

what is the yellow for?

[Mariusz]

Currently on stage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

RALLY GUANAJUATO MEXICO’S HIGH ALTITUDE STAGES PRESENT TEAMS WITH A COMPLEX ENGINEERING CHALLENGE AS THEY TRY TO LIMIT ENGINE POWER LOSS CAUSED BY THINNER AIR.

Friday’s El Chocolate stage climbs to 2,781 metres above sea level and is the highest point in the WRC season. The rest of the route never drops below 1,800 metres and the combination reduces the power of a typical 320hp World Rally Car by up to 30 per cent.

The high altitude Sierra de Lobos and Sierra de Guanajuato regions compound the effect of the regulation FIA air intake restrictor on the 1.6-litre turbo engines - creating an effect Volkswagen engineers liken to ‘jogging whilst breathing through a snorkel’.

There are two key problems. The high-altitude air sucked through the 33-millimetre opening contains less oxygen in Mexico than anywhere else in the season, leading to less efficient combustion. Secondly, the less oxygen the air contains, the harder the turbo charger has to work to produce the same power.

“On one hand, the air pressure sinks with altitude, resulting in a reduction in the oxygen content in the air. On the other hand, so does the air resistance in the turbo charger, which achieves higher speeds than at any other rally,” explained Dr. Donatus Wichelhaus, Head of Engine Development at Volkswagen Motorsport.

Limiting the turbine speed is one way engineers can avoid overstraining the turbo. But even with the unit spinning at its maximum, the engine will the lack the grunt it has on an event like Rally Sweden which boasts almost perfect conditions.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WKk_hUIAELzsa.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WNAr8UsAAOo_W.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Final SD times:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WTjE4WcAEUYy0.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WTsaYWYAAJQ91.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Live SP stream now up: http://www.wrc.com/live-ticker/live_popup_stream.html

[makinen_fan]

Is it just me, or Capito changed a lot lately? Drugs work wonders!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WRNgiWEAAhdUk.jpg

[Reis Eduardo]

Final SD times:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WTjE4WcAEUYy0.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WTsaYWYAAJQ91.jpg

Still runs the Shakedown.

523

[Mariusz]

Did something happen to Dani? His "8" is stuck on the map and no other wrc car is moving.

[hari]

Did something happen to Dani? His "8" is stuck on the map and no other wrc car is moving.

Sordo off the road

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Wos_hWIAAfiUV.jpg

Dani Sordo is stuck in a ditch in shakedown at 3.6 kms, no big damage to the car he just can't get it out of the ditch.

[stefanvv]

SD with WRC2:


1
Ogier
Polo WRC
3’55’3
3’52’3
3’49’2
3’47’6
3’48’6



2
Neuville
i20 WRC
4’00’7
3’55’4
3’49’8





3
Meeke
DS3 WRC
3’55’5
3’52’0
3’50’1





4
Latvala
Polo WRC
3’57’4
3’54’6
3’51’1
3’51’1
3’50’2



5
Ostberg
DS3 WRC
3’59’4
3’54’8
3’53’3
3’50’2




6
Mikkelsen
Polo WRC
4’03’3
3’57’3
3’52’4
3’50’3
3’54’9
3’52’5


7
Kubica
Fiesta WRC
3’56’3
3’52’3
3’50’6
4’26’4




8
Sordo
i20 WRC
4’00’3
3’54’5
3’52’6





9
Tänak
Fiesta WRC
4’03’9
3’56’2
3’55’5
3’54’0




10
Evans
Fiesta WRC
4’01’2
3’58’0
3’54’2
3’54’1




11
Paddon
i20 WRC
4’01’0
3’57’4
3’56’0
3’57’3




12
Guerra
Fiesta WRC
4’04’9
4’02’5
3’58’5
3’56’7




13
Bertelli
Fiesta WRC
4’09’7
4’02’3
3’57’8





14
Prokop
Fiesta WRC
4’04’2
4’16’2
4’00’7
3’59’5




15
Protasov
Fiesta RRC
4’07’8
4’02’5
3’59’6





16
Al-Attiyah
Fiesta RRC
4’04’8
4’04’5






17
Ketomaa
Fiesta R5
4’13’9
4’14’1






18
Fuchs
Fiesta R5
4’15’5







19
Lefebvre
DS3 R5
4’20’4







20
Al-Kuwari
Fiesta RRC
4’23’9

[satukata]

Fords engines lack power in Mexico

[satukata]

TOP DRIVERS PRESS CONFERENCE STARTS in 5 minutes http://www.wrc.com/live-ticker/live_popup_stream.html

[latek]

Fords engines lack power in Mexico

Kubica didn't lack power apparently. His times were very good.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WSwL_XAAAkTZ0.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_WhNW3U0AAq6dJ.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Wb_meWYAAUZBc.jpg

[satukata]

we will see tomorrow... Kubicas Ford lack power too but driver is fast and crazy talent :)

If Kubica drives VW he doesn´t have to drive like crazy.. He have potential winning rallies if he get´s better car

[stefanvv]

Fords engines lack power in Mexico

in what elevation was the shakedown run?

[A FONDO]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Wb_meWYAAUZBc.jpg

http://cs623717.vk.me/v623717154/20596/dJpqdExZ35E.jpg

http://cs623717.vk.me/v623717280/1f9c4/uxEohF_H3TQ.jpg

[satukata]

in what elevation was the shakedown run?

about 2000m and the problem is even bigger tomorrow.. shame for tanak and evans. Mission imposible :(

[stefanvv]

in what elevation was the shakedown run?

ok, it is 2,015 meters, so high enough

[janvanvurpa]

Sordo off the road

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_Wos_hWIAAfiUV.jpg

Dani Sordo is stuck in a ditch in shakedown at 3.6 kms, no big damage to the car he just can't get it out of the ditch.

Pobre Sordo...maybe he is too sordo to hear co-driver....


Yo soy sordo tam bien!

[stefanvv]

about 2000m and the problem is even bigger tomorrow.. shame for tanak and evans. Mission imposible :(

I don't know, SD is not true measurement as some just try their car setup, we'll see

[rayh_mx]

Pobre Sordo...maybe he is too sordo to hear co-driver....


Yo soy sordo tambien!

What you say? :D

Good spanish.... Vámonos!!!!!

[satukata]

SS4 El Chocolate Length 44.13 km Highest Elevation 2738 m

Hard test for the cars and drivers.. Waiting very interesting Rally tomorrow. Thierry´s speed was promising.. Hyundais motor is better than Ford´s

[satukata]

http://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-M%C3%A9xico-20153D
All stages Elevation Profiles.
3D maps and Fly over this special stage by taking the interactive 3D tour

[jonkka]

Is it just me, or Capito changed a lot lately? Drugs work wonders!

I have noticed the same and wondered. What drugs?

[stefanvv]

http://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-M%C3%A9xico-20153D

ERROR 404 - Page Not Found

[Bartek]

about 2000m and the problem is even bigger tomorrow.. shame for tanak and evans. Mission imposible :(

What about Kubica? I think that the problem isn't a engine but Malcolm...

[EstWRC]

it was just a shakedown, Kubica is always fast on shakedowns.

[stefanvv]

well, Ogier takes 2.2 secs for 5.5 km road, may be the sweeping won't be such a problem for him....

[gorganl2000]

i'm waiting patiently for this rally to start.
ogier, neuville, meeke and robert look pretty good time wise at SD, but as said, SD is just that
we'll see if lavala set up revelations are working or not

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_XF_lWXEAE1kMW.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_XF_ljWYAA7cvc.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bestofrallylive

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_XJZdZWIAId6F2.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oYcYmCz4Tk

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlbUwRISC7s

[Criterium]

On RallyVista, Street View is available for SS1. Enjoy the oportunity to dive into the depths of Guanajuato !

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/15/38/23/21/mexpre10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/view/15382321/1141)

http://www.interactiveinfluence.com/techali/rallyvista/

If you have any problem to run the application, just go to the dedicated topic :
http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?35235-RallyVista-3D-animated-maps

[stefanvv]

Prokop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeFaDPhQwF8

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10422941_882467128463007_7113952098036234200_n.jpg ?oh=30812d74ae7524589383b13e910b6a14&oe=557F9D39&__gda__=1434963539_4bb29c84a04f00d3d6deaa9977856a8 f

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_XZmNSUIAAYNsC.jpg

https://instagram.com/p/z3NvTzLNz6/

[RICARDO75]

Start order for today
http://rally-base.com/2015/rally-guanajuato-mexico-2015/start-list/?startTimeTypeId=534

[litifeta]

what luck. took the day off work and logged into wrc+ only to find I am only 32 minutes from livestream

[litifeta]

dimviii ... those photos are awesome

[RICARDO75]

http://cricfree.sx/bt-sport-2-live-stream
live stream

[PLuto]

Rally Mexico live on wrc+...

[N.O.T]

Most useless stage in the whole championship... pffft...

[litifeta]

Bertelli shows if you don't slide around the roundabout it is faster

[makinen_fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6xU5gDu4Bw&feature=em-uploademail

including Sordo's off

[RICARDO75]

Start order (Leg 1 - section 2)
http://rally-base.com/2015/rally-guanajuato-mexico-2015/start-list/?startTimeTypeId=535

[EightGear]

Well here we go: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117928

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier probably only actually cleaning the road this morning, they will be the same everyone for the afternoon and tomorrow Rally2 cars will sweep first.

He will podium no problem.

[Francis44]

Well here we go: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117928

He does have a point, however even cleaning he will be on the top 3 easily.

[Doon]

I like how he says for him to be on the podium the others will have to be pretty bad......erm, yes, the others are pretty bad compared to you Seb!

Psychologically it must be very difficult when Ogier is basically saying 'you're all sh*t', and then goes and proves it.

[rallyfun]

Does anyone remember S. Loeb complaining so much about road position over those 9 years?

[EstWRC]

it is just the beginning, today we will hear him complain at every stage end in radio :D...great driver but this complaining is too much, the rules are done, get over it.

[N.O.T]

Does anyone remember S. Loeb complaining so much about road position over those 9 years?

No.

[stefanvv]

has this been posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raPrB4g8haU

[AL14]

He knows he can take podium easily. I think this is just tactics to mindfuck opponents. And with Latvala that's an easy task :)

[Mintexmemory]

No.

Yes
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110282

Ok it is Seb O complaining about Seb L complaining, but the point is people do have selective memories!

[AL14]

"He's not allowed to complain" "that's rallying" LOL

[stefanvv]

Yes
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110282

Ok it is Seb O complaining about Seb L complaining, but the point is people do have selective memories!

When Loeb complains, it is "telling the truth", when Ogier complains, it is "moaning". Matter of perspective really....

[stefanvv]

"He's not allowed to complain" "that's rallying" LOL

He is right, Loeb is not allowed to complain. "that's rallying" Ogier speaks for himself there

[Mintexmemory]

"He's not allowed to complain" "that's rallying" LOL
Knew you'd appreciate the irony.
The fact remains that Loeb just didn't say anything at all worth reporting when the mike was shoved in his face at stage end. Always a bland 'unhappy with the ice / rain / windscreen wiper ' or 'happy with the time hope to have a good rally tomorrow'.
(lights blue touch paper........)

[N.O.T]

Yes
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110282

Ok it is Seb O complaining about Seb L complaining, but the point is people do have selective memories!

Can you find some more interviews of Loeb like these ? of course he did it in his career while raping everyone but it is the repetition that gives someone a bad name...

I cannot remember Loeb complaining that much and even if he did he did it in moderate fashion...

I do realise that not everyone in here has the average intellectual ability but at least you can try and hide it...

[Muchonen]

I'm pretty tired of this stuff. Every rally same talking from Ogier how is FIA mean and stupid that he has to clean the road, and he has barely chance to win or even podium. Come on, as two times champion with best car he should just drive and if he didn't win or be on the podium than he can complain (a little) about that. But he has 2 wins and he should not complain about it ( for sure not every interview).

[AL14]

Knew you'd appreciate the irony.
The fact remains that Loeb just didn't say anything at all worth reporting when the mike was shoved in his face at stage end. Always a bland 'unhappy with the ice / rain / windscreen wiper ' or 'happy with the time hope to have a good rally tomorrow'.
(lights blue touch paper........)

I'm not saying Loeb made better statements. I was referring to Ogier saying Loeb can't complain, that position on the road is "rallying", and 2 years later he just say the opposite anytime he had a microphone in front of him.

[N.O.T]

When Loeb complains, it is "telling the truth", when Ogier complains, it is "moaning". Matter of perspective really....

exactly... when you are the best motorsport driver of all times your words matter a lot more...


for example. If i say that a WRC is hard to drive nobody will take me seriously and will probably be ridiculed.... if Ogier says a WRC car is hard to drive then everyone or most people will agree...

The gravity of someones words depends on his achievements...

[stefanvv]

the best motorsport driver of all times

That is also a matter of perspective. He is for You, but not for me. I just can't make such general classification if I wan't to be objective....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Stage 3 - Cloudy and only 6C this morning..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_a9aPSWAAA0uol.jpg

[N.O.T]

That is also a matter of perspective. He is for You, but not for me. I just can't make such general classification if I wan't to be objective....

and again when i say something most likely is true when it comes to rallying... when you say something you probably try to convince yourself...

it is all a matter of who says what...

[COD]

Until something like 200? It was allways the previous years winner that started first on day one, then leader for the following days and nobody comlained. Then Burns started crying and made stunts like emtying tyre before stage start. All of a sudden everybody was complaining and then slowing down (Sainz was even penalised).

One reason is ofcourse that rallyin changed to sprint events, but i. The golden years, men were men, not crybabies

[stefanvv]

and again when i say something most likely is true when it comes to rallying... when you say something you probably try to convince yourself...

Assumptions, assumptions

[stefanvv]

Until something like 200? It was allways the previous years winner that started first on day one, then leader for the following days and nobody comlained.

Yes, it was like that for a very long time. But the difference here is "winner from last year on the same rally". Unlike now when the "current leader"....

[bluuford]

Do not worry guys, it is a desert, temperature is rising very quickly:-)

[Nornbugger]

Until something like 200? It was allways the previous years winner that started first on day one, then leader for the following days and nobody comlained. Then Burns started crying and made stunts like emtying tyre before stage start. All of a sudden everybody was complaining and then slowing down (Sainz was even penalised).

One reason is ofcourse that rallyin changed to sprint events, but i. The golden years, men were men, not crybabies

Parts of your memory are flawed, maybe you have early stages of alzheimers?

[AL14]

Bluuford, how about wind? Will there be dust in the air?

[Nornbugger]

Knew you'd appreciate the irony.
The fact remains that Loeb just didn't say anything at all worth reporting when the mike was shoved in his face at stage end. Always a bland 'unhappy with the ice / rain / windscreen wiper ' or 'happy with the time hope to have a good rally tomorrow'.
(lights blue touch paper........)


sshhh, let the adults talk in peace

[N.O.T]

The golden years, men were men, not crybabies

men without balls are not men... and countless passes does not make you good driver... and when you lose to a semi-woman does not make you a man... and when biasion wins events then you are not a man...

in the golden years we had some little doggies and maybe the only man was Juha.

[Nornbugger]

it is just the beginning, today we will hear him complain at every stage end in radio :D...great driver but this complaining is too much, the rules are done, get over it.

That the rules are done to give his opposition a chance is a great complement to the man

[Rallyper]

Hello all friends. And good morning Mexico. Let´s see for how long this rally will be exciting? Over first leg today, at least.

[Rallyper]

men without balls are not men... and countless passes does not make you good driver... and when you lose to a semi-woman does not make you a man... and when biasion wins events then you are not a man...

in the golden years we had some little doggies and maybe the only man was Juha.

Waldegard.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sordo off in SD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zai70NA5voY

[N.O.T]

Waldegard.

no sorry only Juha...

[EstWRC]

Neuville faster than Ogier 0.3 secs.

[N.O.T]

Sordo off in SD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zai70NA5voY

post more videos that we already seen.

[noel157]

post more videos that we already seen.

Manners maketh the man, try it.

[N.O.T]

Manners maketh the man, try it.

too late now.

[EstWRC]

interesting, Mikkelsen 1.1 slower than Neuvill in mid point

[noel157]

Tyres:

Citroën/Latvala: 4 LTX Force H+1S Ogier/Neuville: 3H+2S -Mikkelsen: 4H+2S M Sport/Sordo: 4H+1S Paddon: 5H -Lefebvre: 6H

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Manners maketh the man, try it.

Dont worry... This message is hidden because N.O.T is on your ignore list.

[EstWRC]

spin for Ostberg.

[bluuford]

I think there should not be much problems with dust. There should be some wind. If there is any problems then in some very isolated valleys.

[Mintexmemory]

Meanwhile Neuville beats Seb by a second but there doesn't seem to be a great advantage for the other followers! Ogier to win (as I predicted in my Pickem)

[noel157]

WRC.com splits are so slow. Twitter is quicker.

[noel157]

Meanwhile Neuville beats Seb by a second but there doesn't seem to be a great advantage for the other followers! Ogier to win (as I predicted in my Pickem)

I don't think Ogier will be in a bad position come Sat night. We'll see if there are enough stage miles on Sunday for him to gain time, if he needs it......

[Mirek]

Meanwhile Neuville beats Seb by a second but there doesn't seem to be a great advantage for the other followers! Ogier to win (as I predicted in my Pickem)

At least it's positive to see Hyundai starting strong here.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not a happy man, Mads !

[jonkka]

At least it's positive to see Hyundai starting strong here.

I think that's excellent news and if it's not a fluke, it's very good for the championship.

[noel157]

Missed Mads talking to Colin C, what did he say?

[EstWRC]

oh shit, Tänak not moving.

[satukata]

Not a happy man, Mads !

what was mads problem?

[noel157]

Mads said: The same problem as Sweden, problems again with the gearbox, it goes to neutral and I nearly go off the road. Unbelievable.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

what was mads problem?

Gearbox, again.

[Christos Kolperiadis]

wrc split times are so slow. any other link for split times?

[noel157]

What's the start gap for the cars?

[hari]

What's the start gap for the cars?

3 Minutes

[Bartek]

Tanak out of the road

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak could be Ogier's first road-sweeper tomorrow ... :(

[satukata]

wrc split times are so slow. any other link for split times?

https://plus.wrc.com/live_maps/live_maps/

[Rallyper]

Well, we´ve discussed Tanak as well as certain french gyus. No one so far has done any success...

[noel157]

https://plus.wrc.com/live_maps/live_maps/

Can we have your password? : )

[satukata]

Paddon very good time. only 2,7 s behind JM

Huyndais speed looks good!

[noel157]

Meeke on a good first split.

[Bartek]

https://plus.wrc.com/live_maps/live_maps/

Volkswagen is pretty fast

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Paddon 7:41.2 "No, we haven't seen Ott anywhere. Couldn't see anyone on the road, not sure." :(

[noel157]

Meeke wins SS3, good for the confidence.

PS- hope so........

[stefanvv]

Paddon 7:41.2 "No, we haven't seen Ott anywhere. Couldn't see anyone on the road, not sure." http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
this is disturbing

[N.O.T]

most of the drivers who are benefited y the running order will push on the big one i think...

[Langdale Forest]

Tanak has dissapeared

[Bartek]

Great first split for RK

[A FONDO]

I'm pretty tired of this stuff. Every rally same talking from Ogier how is FIA mean and stupid that he has to clean the road, and he has barely chance to win or even podium. Come on, as two times champion with best car he should just drive and if he didn't win or be on the podium than he can complain (a little) about that. But he has 2 wins and he should not complain about it ( for sure not every interview).

Well said. He should be even grateful (no irony here) to FIA for giving him a challenge against all other poorer drivers and cars.

Or he should go to offroad event and see what is real sweeping and driving in dust clouds for hundreds of kms a day.

[Mintexmemory]

Shock / horror
Ogier expresses contentment!!

'For sure no dust at all, it is okay for me a good stage'.

[satukata]

Go KUBICA Go

[noel157]

So Meeke 2nd.....

[Quad]

any info on Tanak ?

[Langdale Forest]

Tanak has 'dissapeared'

[N.O.T]

So Meeke 2nd.....

3rd in the overall still behind Neuville.

[stefanvv]

Neuville looks much slower on SS4

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Stage stopped after Bertelli ...

[noel157]

Doesn't sound good.

[Langdale Forest]

stage has been suspended

[bluuford]

His dot is close to big waterbody. There are no major slopes in this place

[Sukhoi]

Colin sounds really shocked over the radio.. like he couldn't tell something

[noel157]

3rd in the overall still behind Neuville.

Yep, my bad.

[EstWRC]

man this doesnt sound good at all:(

[noel157]

Is Ott's car showing on the map?

[stefanvv]

Is Ott's car showing on the map?

yes

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hopefully just a long way off and no fans around to get them back to the road...

Both are ok. :)

[Quad]

both OK

[noel157]

Yep, both out of car and ok.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport ‏@MSportLtd
Confirmation that both @OttTanak and Raigo are both out of the car and okay #WRC #RallyMexico

[Langdale Forest]

will SS3 be restarted?

[Quad]

will be interesting to see how Pirellis handle on long gravel stage

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SS3: TANAK UPDATE
Both Ott and his co-driver Raido Molder are reported to be okay and are being driven to the end of the stage in a safety car - hence the pause in the competition.

[noel157]

Worrying time and I wonder if organisers knew they were ok and media were not told?

[Langdale Forest]

did tanak crash?

[Quad]

did tanak crash?
yes and by sound of things it was really heavy crash

[Langdale Forest]

they never said the words crash on the radio