Mp4-29h

[kfzmeister]

The Mclaren with the new Honda engine was driven yesterday for the first time in Silverstone. It was with the newer MP4-29H (Honda) which includes next year's car with aero updates.

Regs don't really allow this sort of thing during the season, but McLaren has found loopholes and Silverstone is considered a "Filmday" They only allowed 100 Kilometers total for the time "filming". I suppose time enough for them to check all PU parameters....

Although ALO has not been confirmed, yet, i'm seriously hoping that this thing will be a contender. I read through the Grapevine, that the engine is potent and could make an immediate impact next season. Couple that with the upwards trend that the team have shown as of late and ALO fans could be in for a treat. :P

[airshifter]

I'll remain hopeful but cautiously optimistic.

Being that they have the best engine on the grid this year, I really don't see the Honda engine itself being a major step forward. They might find a little more power than the Mercedes, but even that is yet to be proven.

My hope is that the Honda funding and the right people will help sort out the chassis, as that seems to be the biggest problem right now.

If Alonso does end up in the seat, they will have one of the very best in the car. That certainly won't hurt them either. But I don't think it will be the end solution to all problems unless they can get the car working better. Only time will tell.

[Doc Austin]

McLaren has built a dog or two in their time, but they always seem to bounce back. Maybe a fresh start like this is just what they needed.

[Mark]

McLaren has built a dog or two in their time, but they always seem to bounce back. Maybe a fresh start like this is just what they needed.

Not consistently. They seem exceptionally variable as a team from building world beaters to building backmarker cars and you never know which it will be.

[driveace]

So why the big secret from McLaren and Fernando ?
Why not confirm their plans ?
I honestly think the Honda could be the dogs Bo****cks of an engine,and Mercedes could have a challenger if Mc gets a good chassis next year

[Rollo]

I hope that it isn't in silver.

MP4/12 was changed to silver to reflect a change to West sponsorship and closer links to M-B, instead of long time sponsor Marlboro plastering their colours on the cars. Mercedes will be gone and so I'd like to see orange back on a McLaren (which they've run on test cars in the past anyway).

It should be MP4-30 anyway as MP4-29 is the current car. 29H would mean that there was a 29A, 29B, 29C... etc. beforehand. An H would mean that the chassis was so good that they kept on developing it.
H would not mean Honda.

[kfzmeister]

It should be MP4-30 anyway as MP4-29 is the current car. 29H would mean that there was a 29A, 29B, 29C... etc. beforehand. An H would mean that the chassis was so good that they kept on developing it.
H would not mean Honda.

From Wiki: "MP4-29H

McLaren have confirmed that a 2015 development car ("H" standing for "Honda") will be used during Friday practice for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with 2015 spec aerodynamics and IT links with future partner Honda in Japan."

[Rollo]

From Wiki: "MP4-29H

McLaren have confirmed that a 2015 development car ("H" standing for "Honda") will be used during Friday practice for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with 2015 spec aerodynamics and IT links with future partner Honda in Japan."

From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4-29#cite_note-8
McLaren have confirmed that a 2015 development car ("H" standing for "Honda") will be used during Friday practice for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix with 2015 spec aerodynamics and IT links with future partner Honda in Japan.[8]

Note 8:
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12479/9559195/mclaren-to-run-b-car-in-abu-dhabi
Ahead of their reunion with 2015 engine providers Honda, McLaren are already known have built a development car in order to fast-forward the process of integrating their new power pack and its associated components.

Note 8 doesn't confirm what the comment suggests; neither is this an official announcement from McLaren.
McLaren have not confirmed that "a 2015 development car ("H" standing for "Honda") will be used during Friday practice for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix" and nor would the FIA allow such a thing.

Such a car might exist but unlike Ferrari which change their nonclamature at the drop of a hat, McLaren's naming conventions have existed for more than 30 years. The last significant change was from a slash to a dash with MP4/15 to MP4-16. Not even the change of engines from Tag-Porsche to Honda to Ford to Mercedes ever warranted a letter denoting the engine supplier.

Unless this is an announcement from McLaren, then I'm calling shenanigans on the chassis designation.

SHENANIGANS, SHENANIGANS, SHENANIGANS!

[Tazio]

Unless this is an announcement from McLaren, then I'm calling shenanigans on the chassis designation.

SHENANIGANS, SHENANIGANS, SHENANIGANS!

From McLaren:

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/532820572234080256

Used it at Silverstone, I doubt they will be using it in free practice sessions at Abu Dhabi before the race.

[Tazio]

Dp

[Mark]

Yes quite right time for a change from silver. It was only put in place because of the involvement of Mercedes so it's no longer appropriate for them to be that colour.

[Doc Austin]

I kina like the chrome silver. Of course, with Mercedes dominating, we see enough silver.

[Rollo]

From McLaren:

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/532820572234080256

Used it at Silverstone, I doubt they will be using it in free practice sessions at Abu Dhabi before the race.

Acceptable! :D

I've come to not trust anything from Sky Sports over the years.

[kfzmeister]

From McLaren:

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/532820572234080256

Used it at Silverstone, I doubt they will be using it in free practice sessions at Abu Dhabi before the race.

Looks like it will be run during the after season test session there. I'm actually surprised that this will be allowed. That will give Honda some serious track time prior to the short winter sessions....

[Doc Austin]

I think they have to give Honda some track time. The other manufacturers have had a whole season of tests, practices, quails and races to run their motors in and figure out how to improve them. Without additional testing Honda will have too much ground to make up.

[inimitablestoo]

Those of us who go back a bit remember when McLaren tried the Lamborghini engine (as a Chrysler) during the season - and there was even talk of running a third one alongside the two McLaren-Fords. Admittedly, the Ford engine wasn't a works deal, but strictly speaking neither is the Mercedes any more...

[AndyL]

Regs don't really allow this sort of thing during the season, but McLaren has found loopholes and Silverstone is considered a "Filmday" They only allowed 100 Kilometers total for the time "filming".

If by "found loopholes" you mean they read the regulations and found out they explicitly permit two promotional events per year with up to 100km running on specially provided tyres, using 2013, 2014 or 2015 spec cars, then yes I suppose they "found loopholes."

[Rollo]

Those of us who go back a bit remember when McLaren tried the Lamborghini engine (as a Chrysler) during the season - and there was even talk of running a third one alongside the two McLaren-Fords. Admittedly, the Ford engine wasn't a works deal, but strictly speaking neither is the Mercedes any more...

The interwebs can sometimes turn up interesting things like pictures:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2011/12/ayrton-senna-mclaren-test/

MP4/8B never raced.

For 1994, Pug power in the MP4/9 yielded a couple of seconds, a few thirds and nothing else of import.

[kfzmeister]

If by "found loopholes" you mean they read the regulations and found out they explicitly permit two promotional events per year with up to 100km running on specially provided tyres, using 2013, 2014 or 2015 spec cars, then yes I suppose they "found loopholes."

I'm actually talking about using the Honda engine. Don't believe that is really allowed, even during promotional film days. Iirc, Wolff even was quoted as saying so. Not sure what loopholes they actually found, since that part hasn't been mentioned anywhere i've read.

[anfield5]

I'm actually talking about using the Honda engine. Don't believe that is really allowed, even during promotional film days. Iirc, Wolff even was quoted as saying so. Not sure what loopholes they actually found, since that part hasn't been mentioned anywhere i've read.

Maybe the fact it hasn't been mentioned any where is the loophole they found, or ... and this is just an random thought - Does the 2014 World Championship officially end on Sunday 23rd November? If so the test after the race falls outside of the season and isn't covered by any rules about the 2014 season?

[kfzmeister]

Maybe the fact it hasn't been mentioned any where is the loophole they found, or ... and this is just an random thought - Does the 2014 World Championship officially end on Sunday 23rd November? If so the test after the race falls outside of the season and isn't covered by any rules about the 2014 season?

Could be, but what about the filmday? I think that is what Wolff and i referred to.

[Rollo]

I'm actually talking about using the Honda engine. Don't believe that is really allowed, even during promotional film days. Iirc, Wolff even was quoted as saying so. Not sure what loopholes they actually found, since that part hasn't been mentioned anywhere i've read.

Testing regulations can be found here:

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8713/fia.html
22) TRACK RUNNING TIME OUTSIDE AN EVENT AND WIND TUNNEL TESTING
22.1 Testing of Current Cars (TCC) shall be defined as any track running time, not part of an Event, in which a competitor entered in the Championship participates (or in which a third party participates on behalf of a competitor), using cars which were designed and built in order to comply with the 2013, 2014 or 2015 Formula One Technical Regulations. No competitor may sell or make available a car of the current year to any third party without the full knowledge of the FIA.
Each competitor will also be permitted to carry out two Promotional Events (PE) with the above cars which will not be considered TCC. A PE shall be defined as an event in which a competitor participates purely for marketing or promotional purposes. No such test may exceed 100km in length and only tyres manufactured specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier may be used.

Why would any change of engine make a car non-compliant with the rules? I don't understand your reasoning. Please explain.

[AndyL]

Testing regulations can be found here:

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8713/fia.html
22) TRACK RUNNING TIME OUTSIDE AN EVENT AND WIND TUNNEL TESTING
22.1 Testing of Current Cars (TCC) shall be defined as any track running time, not part of an Event, in which a competitor entered in the Championship participates (or in which a third party participates on behalf of a competitor), using cars which were designed and built in order to comply with the 2013, 2014 or 2015 Formula One Technical Regulations. No competitor may sell or make available a car of the current year to any third party without the full knowledge of the FIA.
Each competitor will also be permitted to carry out two Promotional Events (PE) with the above cars which will not be considered TCC. A PE shall be defined as an event in which a competitor participates purely for marketing or promotional purposes. No such test may exceed 100km in length and only tyres manufactured specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier may be used.

Why would any change of engine make a car non-compliant with the rules? I don't understand your reasoning. Please explain.

Agreed, I can't see anything that says you have to run your currently homologated engines. Indeed, it looks pretty clear to me that if you take prototypes of your 2015 chassis, and the engine you intend to homologate for 2015, then that is a car "designed and built in order to comply with the [...] 2015 Formula One Technical Regulations," which the rules explicitly say you can use in testing or promotional events.

Further on in the rules it also specifies that the FIA control ECU has to be used for Testing of Current Cars and Testing of Previous Cars - but not Promotional Events. So they don't even have to run the standard ECU. The only specific car rules for PEs I can find are that the chassis has to have been crash tested.

If Toto is saying it's against the rules I think either he's misinformed or, more likely, he's just stirring the pot.

[kfzmeister]

Why would any change of engine make a car non-compliant with the rules? I don't understand your reasoning. Please explain.

Here's what i found. Not sure what regs exactly Toto is referring to, though.


Team boss Boullier is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport: "There is a gentleman's agreement among the engine manufacturers that prohibits track tests outside the official dates.

"But we could test if we wanted, because Honda is not (yet) officially part of the world championship," said the Frenchman.

Mercedes' Toto Wolff does not like the sound of that.

"You can't put an engine in an experimental car or whatever and just drive around. It's clearly against the rules."

He said Boullier's argument about Honda not yet being an official part of F1 is not valid.

"McLaren is enrolled as a team," said Wolff. "And if they have an engine supplier (for 2015), then you can't just say 'I don't know who my supplier is'.

"In this case, the rules are quite clear," he insisted.