Marussia gone; official

[Mark]

https://twitter.com/danielt_johnson/status/530699203451056128

[The Black Knight]

That's a shame - sad to see them go. I'd have rather see them survive than Caterham any day of the week as they at least managed to score 2 points.

[Jag_Warrior]

Bummer. I was hoping they could be resurrected.

[N. Jones]

What a shame. Something needs to be done to allow people to pursue their dreams...

[rjbetty]

I´m upset about this.

The plucky hard triers like Marussia are one of the major points of interest in F1 for me.

Do you hear that Bernie? One of the main reasons I follow F1 is for the small teams and their hopes and progress.

I've been keeping an eye on the team and admired how they have always consolidated and improved, doing it on so little. Just that not many noticed... Pound for pound in the way they are run, I consider them a top team, certainly ahead of teams like Ferrari.

[Hawkmoon]

The harsh reality is that teams like Marussia, Caterham and HRT are no different to the likes of Coloni, AGS, Scuderia Italia, Pacific, Larousse and many others - nothing more than footnotes in the F1 history books that few will remember 5 minutes after they are gone. Bernie doesn't care as they never made him any money. Ferrari, Williams, and McLaren don't care either truth be told. Should they care? Bloody hell they should because without them the sport that makes Bernie money, gave and continues to give Ferrari it's allure and is the only reason McLaren and Williams exist is in danger of turning into an incestuous orgy of inbreeding that will leave the sport resembling a grotesque shadow of it's once glorious past.

F1 needs to rethink every facet of itself starting with Bernie and then moving on to it's governance and financial structures. F1 can't continue to be run by vested interests. Without change the sport is dead.

[yodasarmpit]

Nothing too unexpected here in truth. Back in 2010 we had HRT, Marussia (Virgin), and Caterham (Fake Lotus) all join F1 under the promise of reduced costs, whilst the likes of Prodrive (Aston Martin) were turned down.

In simple terms we had three teams enticed into F1 when they simply couldnt afford to do so.

[Somebody]

Thing is, Prodrive intended to run a customer car...

[steveaki13]

I´m upset about this.

The plucky hard triers like Marussia are one of the major points of interest in F1 for me.

Do you hear that Bernie? One of the main reasons I follow F1 is for the small teams and their hopes and progress.

I've been keeping an eye on the team and admired how they have always consolidated and improved, doing it on so little. Just that not many noticed... Pound for pound in the way they are run, I consider them a top team, certainly ahead of teams like Ferrari.

As you know, Rj I am with you. F1 with 14 cars and all large teams bores the pants off me.

Marussia deserved to survive until 2015 and at least have a chance of using there money from those 2 points. I hope Caterham can survive, but I doubt it now.

[journeyman racer]

So, how the BOSS GP series going?

[yodasarmpit]

Thing is, Prodrive intended to run a customer car...
That was their 2008 proposed entry. For 2010 it was a customer engine only, or so I believe.

[CHAO5]

I see Mannor F1 have made an entry for 2015. Can they pull this off?

[Somebody]

https://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/finance/news/formula-1-marussias-hopes-rise-193218189.html

[Somebody]

Someone seems to have pointed out the prize money situation to the administrators... http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/11/19/marussia-on-the-way-to-abu-dhabi/

[schmenke]

I'm confused. So will the team be at Abu Dhabi or not?

[Somebody]

Nope: http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/11/19/marussia-abandons-last-minute-attempt-to-get-to-abu-dhabi/

[Storm]

What a shame. Something needs to be done to allow people to pursue their dreams...

like getting more money?

Although I am sentimental about stuff like this (sometimes), it is also worthwhile to look at it in a pragmatic way..what exactly did Marussia bring to the table...it has happened before and will happen again. Another backmarker will take its place someday.

on a side note, Mallya is pursuing his dream of a F1 team by pumping money/selling stakes to other equally dubious companies while keeping employees in his airline company away from their salaries for months :rolleyes:

[steveaki13]

Although I am sentimental about stuff like this (sometimes), it is also worthwhile to look at it in a pragmatic way..what exactly did Marussia bring to the table...it has happened before and will happen again. Another backmarker will take its place someday.



Sorry Storm old pal, but I think you have it slightly wrong.

I get that Marussia were not legends of F1. You may say that Minardi didn't bring much to F1, but in my opinion they were fantastic for F1.

Minardi and many other small teams, may not get shown on the TV that much, but they add drama and good racing down the field, which at live events adds alot to a spectators spectacle.

Also I think its clear that its less and less likely that "another team will show up" I mean the costs these days mean teams cannot just be set up and race in F1 for a few years.

Now its extremely rare to have a new team enter F1. Go back 20/30 years and we still had incredibly small outfits able to enter F1 at the back and add to the racing.

Afterall IMO 26 cars racing even if in almost 2 catergories (i.e 16 competative cars and 10 slower cars) is better than 16 cars all told.

I want more cars for more racing. Simple as that. F1 these days will never allow this though because its too expensive just to get an entry

[rjbetty]

Sorry Storm old pal, but I think you have it slightly wrong.

I get that Marussia were not legends of F1. You may say that Minardi didn't bring much to F1, but in my opinion they were fantastic for F1.

Minardi and many other small teams, may not get shown on the TV that much, but they add drama and good racing down the field, which at live events adds alot to a spectators spectacle.

Also I think its clear that its less and less likely that "another team will show up" I mean the costs these days mean teams cannot just be set up and race in F1 for a few years.

Now its extremely rare to have a new team enter F1. Go back 20/30 years and we still had incredibly small outfits able to enter F1 at the back and add to the racing.

Afterall IMO 26 cars racing even if in almost 2 catergories (i.e 16 competative cars and 10 slower cars) is better than 16 cars all told.

I want more cars for more racing. Simple as that. F1 these days will never allow this though because its too expensive just to get an entry

Hear hear! Bring back prequalifying and 20 teams! :D

[DazzlaF1]

Sorry Storm old pal, but I think you have it slightly wrong.

I get that Marussia were not legends of F1. You may say that Minardi didn't bring much to F1, but in my opinion they were fantastic for F1.

Minardi and many other small teams, may not get shown on the TV that much, but they add drama and good racing down the field, which at live events adds alot to a spectators spectacle.

Also I think its clear that its less and less likely that "another team will show up" I mean the costs these days mean teams cannot just be set up and race in F1 for a few years.

Now its extremely rare to have a new team enter F1. Go back 20/30 years and we still had incredibly small outfits able to enter F1 at the back and add to the racing.

Afterall IMO 26 cars racing even if in almost 2 catergories (i.e 16 competative cars and 10 slower cars) is better than 16 cars all told.

I want more cars for more racing. Simple as that. F1 these days will never allow this though because its too expensive just to get an entry

Aye I agree, gone are the days when an F1 team could be set up with a car built in someones garden shed, I mean look at 1989, we had 20 teams running 39 cars and 16 of those teams managed to score points (one of the smaller teams even got on the podium once), we will never see those likes again and to me, that is sad.

Nowadays you need a hi-tech factory, a staff of at least 250 to even function properly, be required to run 2 cars (some teams in the late 1980's ran only 1 car) and have a large 8 figure budget to satisfy the FIA's financial suitability criteria. But that doesnt account for the cost of your engine deal, we know those Hybrid units cost four times as much compared to the V8's of old so no wonder teams are struggling, even looking at budgets, Marussia went under despite having a reported annual budget of £60million, which would have been more than enough to fund a championship winning team say 20 years ago.

And its worse if youre a completely new team, youll have to pay for your own travel and freight to races unless you finish in the top 10 in 2 out of 3 seasons, and even then that prize money is withheld for 12 months.

The whole process just absolutely stinks. and when Haas enter in 2016, I just hope they dont go the same way

[jens]

I see the point of Storm, and then I see the point raised by Steve and others.

Well, let's put it this way. While looking at things in isolation, you indeed may not see that Marussia has added much to the F1 grid. Are they there at the back or not, doesn't make much of a difference.

But the fate of Marussia is part of the bigger face of F1. It shows that for new teams to come into F1 and become successful has become almost impossible, which the points raised by Dazzla also illustrate. Also the FOM money sharing between teams is massively skewed to put it lightly - you are not let near the pot, and while you are having trouble building up your own team, other teams have budgets + FOM income in place, how the hell are you supposed to compete against them?

Also the number of cars shows the health of F1 grid. I have once read a statement, which I think has a point - a grid consisting of less than 20 cars is never a sign of a healthy racing series. Somebody has to be a backmarker as well. If we take backmarkers like Marussia away, we would have less than 20 cars. I don't think that's fine.

Even if backmarkers may not add much in terms of competition, they are still a natural part of sport, just like frontrunners and midfielders are. Everyone has their role. If you took away all backmarkers, some seasons would become very sparse. For example recall 1995-1996, when I think we had only 7-8 teams, who could be considered at least midfield class - others were all backmarkers, who only through some major luck could get points. And in terms of speed they were consistently many seconds off front-runners.

[RS]

http://m.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/319782/marussia-equipment-set-to-be-auctioned-off/

Sounds like it's definitely game over for Marussia. Not too impressed with the job their administrator has done vs. the Caterham people.

[henners88]

A friend of mine had his redundancy letter and its extremely rare something like that would have been revoked if there was a chance they would be saved. I feel sorry for everybody who lost their jobs in Banbury and surrounding area's. At least it is F1 country and teams like Lotus, Williams, Mercedes, Force India, and Red Bull are all close.

[CNR]

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/05/marussia-f1-auction-start-your-own-team/

[RS]

On Sky's 'ask crofty' special on Friday, he said that he had spoken to Graham Lowdon and he had told him that the money was in place for the team to be sold. Hopefully it will go through.

[rjbetty]

Marussia and other small teams add an enormous amount to F1 for me.

[CNR]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30394940
"F1 Marussia: Folded team's assets auctioned"

[Malbec]

Sorry Storm old pal, but I think you have it slightly wrong.

I get that Marussia were not legends of F1. You may say that Minardi didn't bring much to F1, but in my opinion they were fantastic for F1.

Minardi and many other small teams, may not get shown on the TV that much, but they add drama and good racing down the field, which at live events adds alot to a spectators spectacle.

Also I think its clear that its less and less likely that "another team will show up" I mean the costs these days mean teams cannot just be set up and race in F1 for a few years.

Now its extremely rare to have a new team enter F1. Go back 20/30 years and we still had incredibly small outfits able to enter F1 at the back and add to the racing.

Afterall IMO 26 cars racing even if in almost 2 catergories (i.e 16 competative cars and 10 slower cars) is better than 16 cars all told.

I want more cars for more racing. Simple as that. F1 these days will never allow this though because its too expensive just to get an entry

I agree, but its not just that.

Smaller teams provide a chance for young talent to learn their trade and I'm not just talking about drivers but mechanics and engineers too. Ferrari for example wouldn't be so great if it couldn't poach Minardi's best mechanics and engineers.

Also although rare smaller teams can change into more successful ones with capital injection. I'm thinking of FI which up until a few years ago was an embarrassment at the back called Midland/Spyker, or STR which was Minardi. This year's WCC was won by a team that was usually second last in the mid/late 1990s, beating a team to second place that in the early 2000's was causing its owners Ford no end of trouble barely able to call itself midfield at the time. The third best team this year started off with the team owner renowned for scrounging off other teams so he earned the name 'wanker Williams' and until he got Saudi sponsorship didn't exactly threaten the points finishes that often.

Its a shame to lose Marussia and Caterham, both were victims of being owned by people who didn't understand the sport, weren't really interested in it for its own sake and stopped investing money when they failed to make a financial case for themselves. Marussia's end was especially pointless, had the owner not been so bloody minded in the price he demanded for the team he might have found a buyer and they had a good prize haul coming their way for 2015 too.

[CNR]

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/gene-haas-to-bid-for-marussia-f1-s-assets-at-auction-121614
"Gene Haas to bid on Marussia F1's assets at auction"

[RS]

Haas has apparently bought the Marussia factory yet there are rumours the team will race on this year with new ownership.

Must be someone with facilities.. I'm guessing Kolles.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If Marussia get an exeption to run the 2014 car in the early races, Hass could run them to collect the prize money from last year and then use them as starting point for his own team.

[anfield5]

There is always debate about whether the small teams add anything to F1. My point is simple, if the small teams... Caterham, Marussia etc go from the grid, then surely the next two teams up the ladder (Sauber and STR) become the small teams that no one loves, so are they then a waste of time and if they leave, then Toleman and Force India becoem the small teams.... where does it stop?

True Caterham and Marussia have been less than usefull. In Caterham's case no top 10 finishes in 4 years possibly makes them the worst F1 team of all time (even AGS scored a smattering of points), but someone has to finish at the back.

[Rollo]

True Caterham and Marussia have been less than usefull. In Caterham's case no top 10 finishes in 4 years possibly makes them the worst F1 team of all time (even AGS scored a smattering of points), but someone has to finish at the back.

Nope - Andrea Moda.
11 - Did Not Pre Qualify
3 - Did Not Qualify
2 - Did Not Attend
1 - Excluded
1 - Did Not Finish

Out of 18 attempts, they only got 1 car to any grid where it qualified 26th of 26 and in the race lasted 11 laps.

Perry McCarthy went out at Silverstone in a car with no engine. It was pushed down pit lane where it crossed the timing line and then came to a rest.

Caterham have got cars to the end of Grands Prix. They aren't so terrible.

[CNR]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/21/marussia-f1-unnamed-investor-report/
"  Noah Joseph
Marussia, it turns out, may not be down for the count just yet. The troubled Formula One team collapsed three races before the end of last season under the weight of its own debt, but now reports are indicating that a new deal is in the works that could bring the team back from the brink.

Although the identity of the secret investor has yet to be disclosed, team principal John Booth told the BBC that the team was "at a fairly advanced stage with a new investor – a credible investor." With the ies still to dot and the tees to cross, the owners of the troubled team have reportedly postponed the second of two auctions to liquidate its assets. Though its base of operations in Banbury, UK, has (along with other assets) reportedly been acquired by the new Haas outfit, the team's cars are said to still be sitting in Abu Dhabi where the final race of the season – in which the team did not compete – was held.
"

[CNR]

it looks like Caterham is official gone
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/17581/9655334/ecclestone-believes-marussia-can-survive-and-has-met-with-a-potential-investor
“Caterham, I don’t think there is much chance of saving them, but Marussia there is a chance. Maybe within 10 days I think we will be able to say whether it is going to happen or not.”

[henners88]

I thought Haas had acquired the Marussia facility in Banbury and much of their equipment has already been auctioned off? It will be interesting to see where they go. They better get shopping and find some premises.

[anfield5]

Nope - Andrea Moda.
11 - Did Not Pre Qualify
3 - Did Not Qualify
2 - Did Not Attend
1 - Excluded
1 - Did Not Finish

Out of 18 attempts, they only got 1 car to any grid where it qualified 26th of 26 and in the race lasted 11 laps.

Perry McCarthy went out at Silverstone in a car with no engine. It was pushed down pit lane where it crossed the timing line and then came to a rest.

Caterham have got cars to the end of Grands Prix. They aren't so terrible.


True Rollo, but Andrea Moda survived for less than a single season as Andrea Moda. In their previous life as Coloni they finished 8th in only their 7th start, and true this was their best finish (there were only 3 others) in four years.

So if you include this as being the same team my point stands up. If you count Andrea Moda as a new and unique entity, it is hard to judge due to the brevity of their stay. But I do accept you point about the dire effort Moda put forward, and going on the numbers, they were quite probably the worst of the worst

[Bagwan]

They look like they are back .

Justin King , ex-Sainsbury's boss , who happens to have his kid , Jordan , running GP2 this year , is part of a group confirmed to be bringing Manor onto the grid this year .

The old factory premises was sold off , but maybe there is an old grocery store somewhere nearby that they could convert into a home base .

[Doc Austin]

Here's the latest. (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/marussia-set-to-exit-administration-hope-to-race-in-2015)

You gotta hand it to them for tenacity.

[anfield5]

Hope this is true. Even though they never set the grid alight, they are another team and who knows, if they keep Ferrari engines they might even have a change of scraping the odd point scoring race through the season.

[driveace]

IF Haas has bought the Marussia factory ,there is planty of Tesco stores closing ,they would make a super F1 Facility !

[anfield5]

They will be returning to the factory they used when they were known as Virgin Racing..... and I was always told it was not possible to recapture your virginity

[Doc Austin]

Hope this is true. Even though they never set the grid alight, they are another team and who knows, if they keep Ferrari engines they might even have a change of scraping the odd point scoring race through the season.

I wonder if the new engine will even fit in the old car.

Marussia may not be the onloy team in trouble. This is from Autoweek (a credible source) Feb 2nd:

Ralf Bach, a correspondent for Sport Bild and TZ Munchen who now writes on his own blog f1-insider.com, said he has learned that Force India's Jerez absence is "because it has no monocoque" for the new VJM08 car. (http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/rumors-surface-force-india-doesnt-have-funding-pay-bills)
(http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/rumors-surface-force-india-doesnt-have-funding-pay-bills)
He said Force India has not been delivered the 2015 monocoque by carbon supplier EOM "because bills have not been paid". (http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/rumors-surface-force-india-doesnt-have-funding-pay-bills)

I hope Bach is getting bad info. The last thing any of us wants to see is a 16 car grid at Melbourne.

[anfield5]

I wonder if the new engine will even fit in the old car.

Good point Doc.

I would assume that it will, or very nearly will though, as some teams have basically evolved last years cars, rather than designed new ones (apart from RBR who seem to have developed last years Mercedes)

[Doc Austin]

If the other engine makers copied Mercedes' forward mounted, turbo-driven compressor, it is hard to believe there would not be colossal packaging problems fitting it to a 2015 car. That, and it's also hard to believe they would have enough time for all of that. I think if we see them at all it's going to be with the cars in the configuration they raced in last.

Then again, I've certainly been wrong before.

[anfield5]

If the other engine makers copied Mercedes' forward mounted, turbo-driven compressor, it is hard to believe there would not be colossal packaging problems fitting it to a 2015 car. That, and it's also hard to believe they would have enough time for all of that. I think if we see them at all it's going to be with the cars in the configuration they raced in last.

Then again, I've certainly been wrong before.

Will be interesting to see what and when things do happen. Hopefully Caterham are in a similar position and we get back up to 11 teams.

I find it hard to believe that you are ever wrong Doc :)

[Doc Austin]

This might be the end after all: F1 Strategy Group rejects bid by Marussia to keep 2014 car (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-strategy-group-rejects-bid-by-marussia-to-keep-2014-car).

Why would F1 shoot itself in the foot like this? This practically guarantees an 18 car grid at best, and even that is only if Force India makes it.

From the link


The Strategy Group includes Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Williams on a permanent basis, as well as the next best placed constructor, which this year is Force India.

How could those teams possibly think dropping the grid to 18 cars is good for the sport, and long term, good even for their own interests? If force India doesn't make it, that's 16 cars, and the teams think that would be ok?

Maybe it's really the teams that want to run three cars, because with this vote they are one step closer.

[dj_bytedisaster]

There was one opposing voice - Force India. They hope by blocking Marussia's return they'll get their hands on some of the 54 Million Marussia were entitled to for their 9th in the constructors last year. I now strongly hope FI goes under or someone burns down their factory.

[Robinho]

I would assume that the value of the Force India team/entry is greater without Marussia in the frame. Someone could by up the marussia team and entry and ignore FI, who would presumably want more money. Being the only available team makes FI worth more, if they are in as much trouble as it seems and if Mallya is looking to sell/attract investment. It is still a low blow, also if they think they would get an extra $6m (1/9th of the $54) if marussia don't turn up. Hopefully they will change their minds and let Marussia try to make a go of it

[CNR]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/05/caterham-f1-team-auctions-off-assets
"The end of the Caterham Formula One team moved a step closer on Thursday with an announcement from auctioneers that they would sell off the team’s assets next month.

As Marussia – another backmarker of recent seasons – continued to cling on for F1 survival the game is all but up for Caterham, who entered administration last October.
"

[Doc Austin]

I now strongly hope FI goes under or someone burns down their factory.

Then we would be down to 16 cars. How would that help the sport?

[CNR]

I HOPE THIS IS THE ONLY REASON
http://www.pitpass.com/52789/Ecclestone-Teams-will-supply-third-cars-to-rivals
""They would supply a third car to someone else so if, for example, Sauber disappeared, a team could do a deal with Sauber. Ferrari could say, 'we will give you a car, all that goes with it, and we want you to put this sponsor on it. You have your own sponsors but we want you to include this one as well and we want you to take this driver'. The team wouldn't have to go under then would they? If Red Bull decided they would give a car to Caterham for example that could solve their problem."

If several teams go under it would trigger the need for the remaining ones to supply third cars to them. Last month Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff said "there's a regulation which says if the grid drops below 20 cars, so 19 cars, then there is a certain mechanism which would trigger certain teams to fill in." The reason for this is contained in the contracts with race promoters which state that F1 "shall use its reasonable endeavours to ensure... that at least sixteen cars participate in the Event ."
"

[AndyL]

This might be the end after all: F1 Strategy Group rejects bid by Marussia to keep 2014 car (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-strategy-group-rejects-bid-by-marussia-to-keep-2014-car).
Maybe it's really the teams that want to run three cars, because with this vote they are one step closer.

It's a shame the report on that site doesn't provide any insights into the working of the strategy group. Like would this have been a majority vote, or could it have been a veto by a single team who want to run 3 cars?

[Robinho]

It's a shame the report on that site doesn't provide any insights into the working of the strategy group. Like would this have been a majority vote, or could it have been a veto by a single team who want to run 3 cars?

It had to be unanimous, the only team who voted against marussia being able to use a '14 car was Force India

[zako85]

Well, the number one problem with F1 is that F1 is being run by an extremely short sighted E and other commercial interests. For them F1 is not a sport, but a money making machine. E does not care what happens to F1 in ten or twenty years (he will be dead then). He wants to extract as much as he can right now.

The number two problem is that the commercial rights to F1 are not owned by the teams. Ever wonder why the new teams had little chance to succeed? Ever wonder why all of F1's teams get only half of F1's TV rights income while the rest goes into the pockets of fatcats like E, CVC, and other self-entitled suits? When I think about it, I always start thinking that it would have been great if F1 teams broke away from E and setup a new championship.

And last problem is the runaway costs. The horrendous price of the new (2014- spec) engines is only a tip of the iceberg. The real problem is that everyone who is doing business with F1 thinks that F1 teams can print their own money. The FIA, the track owners, the tire manufacturers, the engine suppliers, fuel supply. etc. As a result, a team with a budget of 100 millions USD (enough to fund the entire IndyCar grid for a season) can barely afford to build a passable chassis that barely falls within the 107 percent rule and then maybe hire a couple of pay drivers.

[AndyL]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/02/voted-out-by-their-peers-marussia-rescue-team-thwarted-by-rival-teams-veto/

Sounds like it was all about money. Marussia's share of the TV revenues including their prize money for beating Sauber and Caterham will be shared between the remaining teams. I guess Force India really need the extra cash.

[Doc Austin]

This just makes me wonder how bad it will have to get before all of these people realize something has to be done to keep the teams healthy.

How long will the public remain convinced F1 is the pinnacle if only eight teams can be bothered to even show up? Every year we hear how bad things are at Indianapolis, but they can still scrape 33 cars together.

As I have documented earlier on this thread, Force India reportedly can't even pay for it's own tubs, but now they are allowed to vote another team off the grid? How stupid will they all look if Force India can't answer the bell either?

[truefan72]

This just makes me wonder how bad it will have to get before all of these people realize something has to be done to keep the teams healthy.

How long will the public remain convinced F1 is the pinnacle if only eight teams can be bothered to even show up? Every year we hear how bad things are at Indianapolis, but they can still scrape 33 cars together.

As I have documented earlier on this thread, Force India reportedly can't even pay for it's own tubs, but now they are allowed to vote another team off the grid? How stupid will they all look if Force India can't answer the bell either?

well said.
it is ridiculous. all these teams are shortsighted and think of themselves only, even to the detriment of the sport.
having such a small grid is an embarrassment to the sport and given a chance to correct that problem, they of course chose to make it worse.
at the end of the day, i still assign the majority of the blame to the FIA and Max Mosley who screwed up the process in such a way that he bribed 3 financially unsound teams to enter the sport, while rejecting real buds that would have been around today. ohm, and a 4th "USF1" that didn't even make the grid.
FI teams and the FIA have already killed the golden goose, now they are trying to bury it

[Doc Austin]

While they still have a brand, I think F1 needs to salvage it's image. It is downright embarrassing they can't scrape 20 cars together, especially when those cars already exist! When Indianapolis looks like they might not make 33, they will pull an old sled or two out of the museum, just so they don't embarrass themselves to the point no one cars any more.

F1 let the costs get so out of control that only manufacturer backed teams can afford to do it. Williams is the only independent team that doesn't seem to be facing some sort of financial crisis, but remember that before Martini they were forced to put up with Maldocrashdo (or is that Shuntanaldo?).

Of the rest, count up the ride buyers and that will tell you who is and isn't in money trouble. This means that you have to take Sauber and Lotus out of the picture when it comes to healthy teams, so who is left? Force India? Are you kidding?

Outside of Williams, the only comfortably solvent team not manufacturer supported is Red Bull, but they burn money like it's nothing just because they have it....just beause that is what they do, just for the pure hell of it. What happens when Mateschitz has had enough? If red Bull stops winning, how long will he keep pouring money in to run four cars? Where would the sport be without him? Is he going to live forever? Will his heirs have the same passion for lighting cigars will million dollar bills?

The rest are Ferrari (Fiat), Mercedes (Mercedes) and McLaren (Honda). And, what the hell, let's throw Torro Rosso in there too because they are part of the bottomless pit of Red Bull money.

Who is left? Is Lotus solvent? How About Force India?

Basically you have the manufacturers with their pet teams, and the grid filling scubs that they could care less about. Right now we are to the point Sportscars has found themselves in so often..... at the mercy of fickle manufacturers who can come and go whenever it suits them, and most of the time they go when it hurts the sport the most. Take a look at how many times sportscar racing has been decimated because manufacturers left.

In the end the answer is going to be simplier cars that more teams can afford to race, and an independent engine supplier that can sell the teams a power plant that gives them a chance, like in the old Cosworth days.

The answer is not, and never will be, excluding teams when you are already down to an embarrassing number.

Yeah, 18 cars. How great will that be when we lose another team?

[Jag_Warrior]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/02/voted-out-by-their-peers-marussia-rescue-team-thwarted-by-rival-teams-veto/

Sounds like it was all about money. Marussia's share of the TV revenues including their prize money for beating Sauber and Caterham will be shared between the remaining teams. I guess Force India really need the extra cash.

From the old days, this was called "winning ugly". But when you need the money (as it sounds like Force India does), you do what ya need to do. And putting a bullet in Manor put more money in Force India's pocket.

[driveace]

Is the dwarf going to bribe Force India,and put money in their sweaty palms to get them to allow Marussia to run. Or get Mr Russia ,or one of the big oil companies there to sponsor the team

[CNR]

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8954926
"
Reports in Britain suggest Marussia are still hoping new owners can be found to get them racing sometime this year.

Under F1 rules, a team is allowed to miss three races during a season, meaning they could still line up in Bahrain in April.
"
let them turn up in April and beat the asshole teams

"It needed all the teams to agree and there were three or four of them that didn't agree."
lotus, force india, salba ?

[CNR]

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/06/marussiamanor-outlines-plans-for-returning-to-f1-in-2015/
“Subsequent to this application, the team was informed on 5 January 2015, that the Strategy Group felt that two teams – Marussia and Caterham – should be permitted to race a 2014 car in the 2015 championship. The letter stated that the Strategy Group agreed that the car should comply with all of the 2015 technical regulations, with the exception of four articles, those articles being Articles 3.7.9, 15.4.3, 15.4.4 and 16.2. The team can confirm that the modifications to its 2014 car would meet this stipulation.
http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/06/bad-sportsmanship-or-bad-business-force-india-couldnt-win-in-paris/
The sad irony about this case is that the team that was the first to veto Marussia’s return was Force India – the very team that had threatened to boycott last November’s United States Grand Prix because of how F1 was treating the smaller fish outside of the Strategy Group. It has since become a member of the body, and its first act was to arguably do exactly what it had protested against in the past.

[N. Jones]

As long as Bernie is going to keep the rules such as they are that less teams equals more money, we are never going to see more than the nine teams we have now.

[truefan72]

As long as Bernie is going to keep the rules such as they are that less teams equals more money, we are never going to see more than the nine teams we have now.

and let me add one thing about the teams and bernie.
until you get a proper revenue sharing system F1 will continue to fail.
I think the likes of ferrari, mclaren, mercedes and rBR have gotten plenty of the bounty up to this point.
if they can just establish a proper revenue sharing system with an extra bonus for the rankings then that will certainly help
all these decisions based on money will go away quickly.
teams would know that they will be financially solvent forever
and if the bigger teams want to spend above and beyond, what would amount to be , a healthy lump sum of money, then tey can
and then will duly be taxed above an agreed upon ceiling

this idea is so simple and effective that it hurts my head to fathom as to why it is not been instituted when clearly it is what the sport needs.
The NFL has done it and all the teams are stinking rich because of it.

Combine that with a slight reduction in the race hosting fees ( which means cheaper tickets), a better television contract and taking advantage of the internet, and you will see F! regain its charm and popularity.

[jens]

at the end of the day, i still assign the majority of the blame to the FIA and Max Mosley who screwed up the process in such a way that he bribed 3 financially unsound teams to enter the sport, while rejecting real buds that would have been around today. ohm, and a 4th "USF1" that didn't even make the grid.
FI teams and the FIA have already killed the golden goose, now they are trying to bury it

Funny thing is that in retrospect Max Mosley had a point with his budget cap idea. Okay, maybe it was too low (30M €) and maybe the proposal was too radical at the time that it shocked everybody, so that Max was sent out of the office... Anyway, I think Max saw, what was coming due to recession. And he was determined to push this change through.

As for the choice of teams. They were all promised a budget cap. And I think they would have all struggled regardless of who would have been chosen. Who else were there applying, who didn't get a chance? Lola? Prodrive?

Campos team, using cars built by Dallara seemed like a strong team to enter F1, but Campos fell financially apart already before the 2010 season had even begun. Plus all new teams were going to use outdated Cosworth engines. There were no good outlooks for any newcomers.

Funny thing. I am not fond of the corrupt Max Mosley, at all. But I want him for one thing. To come back and tell all teams to "F*** off, we are going to have budget cap, cost cutting, and run F1 economically like we should, and you will not dictate anything here." Sometimes... in critical situations... a tough and determined leader is needed.:D

[jens]

Then we would be down to 16 cars. How would that help the sport?

My answer would be that... sometimes situations must become truly critical for people to learn from it and actually change something. Otherwise they will be in the 'comfort zone' saying that "ok, it's not too bad yet, let's carry on."

The loss of Marussia hasn't changed anything. Still 2 cars per team. F1's financial structure remains the same. Bernie carries on as always.

But imagine Lotus, FI, STR and Sauber all disappear and we are left with only 5 teams. Then everyone in power MUST act, because it is absolutely impossible to carry on.

Perhaps that's why we need a proper earthquake in F1.:)

[steveaki13]

F1 needs some kind of shock and soon.

I think most of us have said at some point that we think F1 is dying or heading down a dangerous road. And so it is proving.

Manor look to have little to no chance now and that is sad. That F1 as a whole will allow a potentially cash strapped team in Force India to block Marussia's entry.

18 cars guaranteed high and 16 is possible. F1 is in a mess.

[AndyL]

Graeme Lowdon is now saying that their application to run a 2014 car was not vetoed, because they never made such an application:

"...we did not make any application to yesterday’s Strategy Group meeting and nor were we asked to."

As far as they are concerned they're still aiming to turn up with the old car modified to meet 2015 regulations, with certain exceptions that were apparently approved a month ago as per CNR's post above. (After their fairy godmother arrives with a pumpkin full of cash of course.)

Updated story on JAF1:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/02/voted-out-by-their-peers-marussia-rescue-team-thwarted-by-rival-teams-veto/

[Bagwan]

Forbes has it that about 200 companies are owed a pile of money , and some have assets they are holding hostage for money owed .
It looks like the money they are due to get from the prize fund may be pretty close to covering what is owed , but it doesn't come all at once , but rather , in installments through the year .

There needs to be some solid money behind this bid to start with , because , presumably , many of these 200 suppliers would be needed to be convinced to still supply the team to make it happen .

The team cannot carry on if it is deemed to be "insolvent" , so it must clear all this up asap .
If it does , it can miss 3 races , and still be a viable entry .

[CNR]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2949295/Williams-Manor-bid-return-F1-grid-using-modified-version-2014-car.html
Williams back Manor bid to return to F1 grid using modified version of 2014 car
Manor has been formed after Marussia fell into administration last year
The team want to compete using a modified version of last season's car
Force India voted against the motion for Manor to return after a meeting
Claire Williams insists her team will help secure their return


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2949295/Williams-Manor-bid-return-F1-grid-using-modified-version-2014-car.html#ixzz3RYOqhDbB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Doc Austin]

I hope Claire gives them a Williams chassis and they kick Force India's ass with it.

[anfield5]

Good form Williams. Hopefully the other teams will be equally accommodating.

Force India's position does leave a bit of a bad after taste, but I can see their point. They are cash strapped and a re struggling to survive, but they have had to spend wads of cash to make this years grid with a car that meets the new rules, so allowing another hard-up team to save wads of cash by not having to comply is in many ways, completely unfair. So I can see why F.I are anti this.

[Doc Austin]

Marussia are not about to give up.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/manor-f1-marussia-tells-fans-to-get-ready

I don't know if it is comic or heroic of them to hang on facing such insurmountable obstacles. It's like F1 wants the team to die, but they keep coming back out of spite.

Marussia really wants to be in the game and F1 can't afford to lose more teams. Even on their best day, Marussia is not much better than 10th place, so what could it hurt to let them run the 2014 car for a few races? Just make them ineligible for points until they have a proper 2015 car. That way no one could complain about it costing them prize money.

At least that way you keep Marussia in the game and give them a fighting chance to recover and maybe get solvent. Keeping them off the grid doesn't make F1 any better and it doesn't keep Marussia in business.

Of course, if F1 only needs 18 or potentially 16 car grids, I could be wrong. I'm still not convinced that Force India is going to make it either.

[giu canbera]

F1 should bring Dallara and Oreca to build 8 cars each. Under some BoP program (what? not even 2 million per car? Dallara's GP2, Indycar and Super Formula costs 800k or so)
Bring OEMs to build cheaper engines to be used by these 16 cars (illmor, hpd, cosworth, judd?...hmm engine lease program... what? 10 million $$?)

ANd then introduce those rules from moto gp, allowing these teams to use an extra set of the soft tires during qualify, not demanding them to run 2 types of tires during races.. to give them some advantages to improve competition with the manufacturer teams.......
....Who should really be doing 30 millions $$ MAX cars.
C'mooon.. The 4 million bucks Super Formula car were only 4 secs of Rosberg/Hamilton's pace in SUzuka last year (Comparing series)

Imagine how cheap tickets could be. Stands would be filled again, eh.
Here in Brazil, the cheappest F1 ticket cost THE SAME as 10 WEC tickets.
Also, with less money to spend, more sponsors would get envolved! On the cars, on the event...
F1 is just stuuupid. They are drowning into their own BS cuz they simply want to look like a princess... durrr

[Doc Austin]

If it's about speed, a few years back an 90s vintage Nissan Group C was lapping Sebring faster than the dominant Audi R8, and that was on rock hard Avon control tires. The technology to go faster, cheaper has always been there.

What F1 has done is restrict the cars and then get the speed back with expensive technology. You can bet if they went back to the 3 litre ground effects rules the cars would be lapping 10 seconds minimum faster than the current billion dollar techno-sleds.

If you want to go fast cheaply, nothing beats brute force displacement. With a big motor and lots of grunt, you can run huge tunnels and huge wings and go like utter hell. If the goal is to go fast, it makes sense to do it this way rather than have 16-18 car grids that cost $100 million each a year to run.

[CNR]

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/report-manor-marussia-f1-2015-entry-fee-021715
Manor F1 Team pays 2015 entry fee

[anfield5]

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/report-manor-marussia-f1-2015-entry-fee-021715
Manor F1 Team pays 2015 entry fee


This is good news for F1. Hopefully the new ownership model is sustainable and they can eventually start to move forward. Some of their performances last year suggest that this might be the case... here's hoping.

[Bagwan]

Now they are officially out of administration , and Ferrari has said they will supply them with 2014 engines .

On Saward's blog , I had read that they would have more chance to make it as a result of being able to delay the actual entry onto the grid for 3 races , but I just read some speculation that it may not be so .

I'll try to figure out where I saw it , but it said that a team could only miss 3 outings until 2020 and since they have already missed 3 , they need to be at the opener .
I sure hope that's wrong , but if not , perhaps it can still happen anyway .

And , I also read they have crash tests planned for March .

The new Minardi , the plucky underdog .
So fitting that the press went to Minardi for comment on the situation when the teams tried to shut them out .

Go , Manor , go !

[Doc Austin]

I hope they make it. They will probably be slow and it the way, but that's better than continuing to lose teams.

I am also reading so much about VJ Mallya's money troubles (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/11292117/Rainmaker-The-party-comes-to-an-end-for-Vijay-Mallya-Indias-King-of-the-Good-Times.html)that I would not bet on Force India making it to Melbourne.

[Malbec]

I'll try to figure out where I saw it , but it said that a team could only miss 3 outings until 2020 and since they have already missed 3 , they need to be at the opener .

No, the rules say any team can miss three races from any one season. Any more and they can be disqualified from the entire season.

Also, the rules say that the team must make a reasonable attempt to compete over the race weekend, so turning up with a car that fails scrutinising might or might not be ok. That might give Manor some leeway if they can't get things together after they miss the first three races.

I wonder who is behind the rekindling of the team though, they clearly have money to clear existing debts and get Ferrari convinced enough that they'll supply engines for 2015...

[CNR]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/27/us-motor-racing-marussia-idUSKBN0LV1OI20150227
Marussia on F1 entry list, Caterham gone
"
(Reuters) - Marussia's climb back from the brink of Formula One extinction gained momentum on Friday when they were included on the official 2015 entry list, subject to conditions.

There was no such salvation for tail-end rivals Caterham, founded by Malaysian entrepreneur Tony Fernandes, who have failed to find a buyer and whose cars and equipment will be auctioned off next month.
"

[CNR]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/31653066
"The main investor behind the revival of the Manor Marussia team is Stephen Fitzpatrick, boss of energy firm Ovo.

Fitzpatrick, 37, has rescued the team that went into administration in October and missed the final three races of last season.
"