Rate the Race - Russian GP

[steveaki13]

Wow what a yawn fest :p

Oh well rate and review that race

[Koz]

Most boring race in the history of F1?

[donKey jote]

:snore:

[longisland]

Race 2, track 2, Putin & Bernie's Kodak moment 2, the cute translator 1 = 7

[N4D13]

Was this a race? :O

[dj_bytedisaster]

2/10. Quite a borefest.

[steveaki13]

Most boring race in the history of F1?

Must be up there

I even enjoyed US 2005 more at the time, because of the controversy

[steveaki13]

I will give it 2.5/10

Dull track, dull racing

Sterile.

Putin & Bernie took it from a 3.5 to 2.5

[A FONDO]

3/10 :z

[journeyman racer]

Almost as good as Bathurst. Just a tad behind.

[Mia 01]

So very boring. 3/10.

[Whyzars]

I have just watched 53 formation laps. The 54th had a chequered flag.

It seemed like the stewards weren't watching the race.

They need to start issuing drive through penalties when 2 wheels cross a white line - either that or build up a gutter to catapult some of these cars into the grandstands. Constantly ignoring the track boundaries helps to create this level of snore fest.

Beautiful track with interesting potential but a boring race with cars driving wherever they pleased. This race was made even more excruciating by the endless drone of the Prius wannabe's.

Ugggh 2/10.

[N. Jones]

Cool track, boring GP.

[steveaki13]

I can't agree about it being a cool/beautiful track, I think its another dreadful Tilkedrom, to go with Bahrain, China, Korea & Abu Dhabi.

While I enjoyed Malaysia, Turkey, Austin etc... I would love some new tracks that have off track challenges. (i.e- not miles of tarmac and dull concrete walls)

[Tazio]

I did watch a replay of the race, and believe it could have been between 6 and 7 if Pirelli would have brought softer compounds. However, I am going to have to give it my lowest rating of the season.....4.5

[truefan72]

I will give it 2.5/10

Dull track, dull racing

Sterile.

Putin & Bernie took it from a 3.5 to 2.5

My goodness, you are taking the words out of my mouth in every thread today!

well said and in total agreement

[truefan72]

I have just watched 53 formation laps. The 54th had a chequered flag.

It seemed like the stewards weren't watching the race.

They need to start issuing drive through penalties when 2 wheels cross a white line - either that or build up a gutter to catapult some of these cars into the grandstands. Constantly ignoring the track boundaries helps to create this level of snore fest.

Beautiful track with interesting potential but a boring race with cars driving wherever they pleased. This race was made even more excruciating by the endless drone of the Prius wannabe's.

Ugggh 2/10.

maybe nascar style "phantom cautions" to bunch everyone up lol
even the commentators were begging for a safety car or something

[steveaki13]

I surprised Bernie didn't order someone to crash, so the "show" could be saved.

Russia and Putin must be angry they hosted the worst GP of the season

[jens]

The appearance of Putin means it is compulsory to give very high marks for the race! It is an order from the Great Leader!

Kidding...

Anyway, there was at least a bit of a tension whether Rosberg could make those tyres last and some battles in midfield as well. For example Williams completely misjudged Rosberg and thought he'd fall off the cliff or make another pitstop. And the effect of a new circuit. I could give this race even a 4.

[Duncan]

I actually think the track is pretty decent, but a boring race.

It looked early on like it might end up being a pretty interesting race, with a bunch of people on radically different tire strategies, and I was expecting we'd see lots of action in the last half of the race as different driver's tires went away at different times and produced some radical differences in lap times. None of that happened, and it turned into a snoozefest as everybody's tires held up no matter what.

Nico got away with one this time. But for the fact that nobody's tires showed any meaningful degradation, he could have finished a long way down the order.

[anfield5]

Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring

Typical Tilkedrome. Featureless, tedious, one-laned, unimginative, crap-bag of a track. Like monaco but with no glamour. It was like being back at Valencia a few years ago.

[Zico]

The track looks ok but I'll give the race a 3.5, it could have been so much better had Pirelli not messed up.

[anfield5]

The track looks ok but I'll give the race a 3.5, it could have been so much better had Pirelli not messed up.

I don't think it fair to blame Pirelli, they had no data to work from and made a guess as to track conditions. It is a sad state of affairs when a tyre company is blamed for making tyres that actually work. I recall a reasonably short while ago, when people were moaning at Pirelli for producing tyres that fell away too much, now they are being moaned at for exactly the opposite reason. You can't have it both ways, and I don't recall Goodyear or Michelin ever getting abused because some of their tyres would last an entire race.

[journeyman racer]

Bottas 4th in the standings so far! Keep going son! The way things are going, I won't begrudge him a win similar to what Ricciardo had in Canada.

[jens]

Bottas 4th in the standings so far! Keep going son! The way things are going, I won't begrudge him a win similar to what Ricciardo had in Canada.

Bottas' season similarity to Button in 2004 is so striking for me. Both getting plenty of podiums, but the maiden win eludes them, because one team package is so much superior on track it is almost impossible to beat them in a straight fight.

I also like, how Valtteri is a direct rival to both Vettel and Alonso in the championship. Two drivers, who were 1st and 2nd in three out of the last four years, now battling for a meagre 4th against this young rising Finn!

Bottas is there to remain in F1 as a force to be reckoned with, as a regular top5 or at worst a top8 driver on the grid, who hangs around at least for a decade. Now it is just the matter of which kind of cars can he get, and whether they allow to be involved in a title challenge one day.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I don't think it fair to blame Pirelli, they had no data to work from and made a guess as to track conditions. It is a sad state of affairs when a tyre company is blamed for making tyres that actually work. I recall a reasonably short while ago, when people were moaning at Pirelli for producing tyres that fell away too much, now they are being moaned at for exactly the opposite reason. You can't have it both ways, and I don't recall Goodyear or Michelin ever getting abused because some of their tyres would last an entire race.

True, I'm one of those who complained the loudest about Pirelli's comedy tyres at the start of the 2013 season. This season they got it absolutely right. Now that they have data about the track they will bring better suited compounds next year. It was foreseeable that they'd be conservative. Everybody would have pilloried them if the race had ended up a five-stopper.

[Doc Austin]

Botas could be just the guy who pulls Williams back into the fight for a championship, but they still have a long way to go. I hope I am wrong, but I think Massa just might be past it and Williams needs a second driver who is faster.

It was interesting (and disturbing) to see how badly Red Bull sucked today. Oh, as the saying goes, how the mighty have fallen. Adrian Newey, and his legacy, would have been a lot better off leaving at the end of last year. Of course, we're talking about a team that has won three Grands Prix and are the only one to beat Mercedes this year, but that's the high standard you set when you win four straight titles. You win only three races and people think you suck. Marussia and Caterham would love to suck like that.

Did I mention how disappointing Vettel has been this year? Careful with that finger, Sebastian. You don't know where that's been. What's wrong with this guy? He didn't get to be a four time champion by stinking it up like he has this year. I like Vettel, admire him even, but something is not right here.

Ricciardo gets the benefit of doubt because this is the first race all year that he has been less than brilliant. Either that, or Sebastian sucks so bad that it makes Daniel look like a god.

It also looks like Ferrari has just given up. Kimmi: "Leave me alone. I don't know what I am doing." Alonso: "Why the hell am I still here?" Montezemolo: "They will ask me back in a couple of months because they will suck once I am gone." Brawn: "The number you have reached is not in service at this time, especially when the incoming calls are from Italy."

Rosberg pitting early killed any suspense the race had, because Mercedes is so far ahead that the battle between teammates is all that's left. He ran all but one lap on a set of tires and still finished second. That's how lost everyone else is.

Rosberg has got to be getting a bit disillusioned by now. Lately, every time he tries to race Hamilton (Spa, Monza, Russia) he makes a mistake and either gives the race away, ruins his tires or punts his teammate (which he can't afford to do again under any circumstances). After three of those out of the last four races, the Singapore DNF was just an additional insult. It is not going Nico's way at all right now, and he went from having an unassailable lead after Spa, to being behind on points to a guy he can't beat in a straight fight. It's got to be playing with his mind.

To be honest, I watched most of the race in fast forward because it just wasn't that interesting. Maybe the track was fun to drive, but on TV it looked flat, featureless and uninteresting. As such, since I really didn't pay too much attention to it, I don't think it's fair for me to give it a rating because it would be real low.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Did I mention how disappointing Vettel has been this year? Careful with that finger, Sebastian. You don't know where that's been. What's wrong with this guy? He didn't get to be a four time champion by stinking it up like he has this year. I like Vettel, admire him even, but something is not right here.

Ricciardo gets the benefit of doubt because this is the first race all year that he has been less than brilliant. Either that, or Sebastian sucks so bad that it makes Daniel look like a god.


Vettel has never made a secret of it that he has trouble adapting to the new cars. That is first not helped by the fact that he dislikes them with a passion. He's still young, but people forget that he started out as a test driver in the V10 era. Now he has a V6 blowdryer in the back. It's not that easy to motivate yourself to adapt to something you hate. In fact if it wasn't for the once-in-a-lifetime chance to drive for the team he always wanted to drive for - Ferrari - I could actually imagine him walking away from F1.
The next piece in the puzzle is the new brake-by-wire system. Until last year the brakes were controlled by the driver's foot. This year it is controlled by a computer, who splits break force between actual breaks and MGU-K. Drivers get not the same feedback they used to get from actual foot-controlled breaks. Both Vettel and Räikkönen are drivers who used the brakes to stabilize the car on corner entry, while others like Hamilton, Alonso and (even more extremely) Bottas let the car become unstable and then stabilize it using the throttle. Senna more or less is the prototype for that philosophy. As the teams sorted out the bbw over the season both Vettel and Räikkönen started to improve. A third one to profit from that is Erikson btw, who suddenly manages to go quicker than Koba on occasion and also cites improved brakes as the reason.
The third piece in the puzzle is utter lack of support from the team, which suffers from 'shiny object syndrome'. Dan came in from Toro Rosso, quite used to cars with utter lack of downforce. He drove for HRT and TR after all. So for him, with all the foibles of this year's RB it was still a better car than anything he drove before. For Vettel it was a massive step back that needed acclimatisation. Yet that time wasn't given to him. For instance the first in-season test at Bahrain was given completely to RIC, despite the fact that Vettel needed track time more than anything. RB were the only top team not to run both their drivers in that test.
RTL, the German broadcaster of F1, calculated that with all missed tests and missed sessions/DNF's Vettel has about 1.200km deficit of running over RIC - that's a mammoth four grand prix distances. RB have systematically demoralized him, the same way they did with Webber. The only difference is: Vettel doesn't take this shit more than once and when the Scuderia called, he answered.

[rjbetty]

Vettel has never made a secret of it that he has trouble adapting to the new cars. That is first not helped by the fact that he dislikes them with a passion. He's still young, but people forget that he started out as a test driver in the V10 era. Now he has a V6 blowdryer in the back. It's not that easy to motivate yourself to adapt to something you hate. In fact if it wasn't for the once-in-a-lifetime chance to drive for the team he always wanted to drive for - Ferrari - I could actually imagine him walking away from F1.

I get this, but some may think if Seb is the best driver in F1 he should be able to get on with it anyway, like Alonso would probably be able to.


The next piece in the puzzle is the new brake-by-wire system etc...

Well this is probably a point, but then I remember Hamilton struggled to adapt to brakes in his new team last season, but he wasn't given leeway and was slammed as excuses.


The third piece in the puzzle is utter lack of support from the team, which suffers from 'shiny object syndrome'. Dan came in from Toro Rosso, quite used to cars with utter lack of downforce... For Vettel it was a massive step back that needed acclimatisation. Yet that time wasn't given to him... RB were the only top team not to run both their drivers in that test.

...RB have systematically demoralized him, the same way they did with Webber.

I'm yet to be convinced this has happened, certainly to this extent. I don't know why Horner and Marko would suddenly fall out of love with Seb. If they are getting behind Ricciardo, it may just simply be he has managed to get the points and have the best shot. I'm open but at the moment, it could be seen that a massive excuse is just being made...

As for Webber, it would now have to be acknowledged that the gap between him and Vettel was not the truth, since Webber certainly didn't have the love of Horner and co.



Hopefully Vettel will share his feelings of 2014 at some point in the future and we'll see what to make of it.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm yet to be convinced this has happened, certainly to this extent. I don't know why Horner and Marko would suddenly fall out of love with Seb. If they are getting behind Ricciardo, it may just simply be he has managed to get the points and have the best shot. I'm open but at the moment, it could be seen that a massive excuse is just being made...

As for Webber, it would now have to be acknowledged that the gap between him and Vettel was not the truth, since Webber certainly didn't have the love of Horner and co.

Hopefully Vettel will share his feelings of 2014 at some point in the future and we'll see what to make of it.

RB have 'shiny object syndrome'. Most of the team members are utter mercenaries. I've been working with TJ13 now for two years and our chief editor cornered one of our RB contacts about why it seems that the team does prefer RIC this year. The answer was simple: "Ric delivers the points and hence the bonus payments for us, so he's who our loyalty lies with." They are completely indifferent to Vettel as of this year. He's merely there because they are obliged to run two cars.
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who thought Mark was just past it, but having seen how a bloody four-times WDC is basically thrown under the bus, I get a new understanding for what he must have gone through. Mind you, I don't quite understand why he took that shit for four years. He'd have been better off at any other team. RB in my opinion is a pure one car team.

[jens]

RB have 'shiny object syndrome'. Most of the team members are utter mercenaries. I've been working with TJ13 now for two years and our chief editor cornered one of our RB contacts about why it seems that the team does prefer RIC this year. The answer was simple: "Ric delivers the points and hence the bonus payments for us, so he's who our loyalty lies with." They are completely indifferent to Vettel as of this year. He's merely there because they are obliged to run two cars.
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who thought Mark was just past it, but having seen how a bloody four-times WDC is basically thrown under the bus, I get a new understanding for what he must have gone through. Mind you, I don't quite understand why he took that shit for four years. He'd have been better off at any other team. RB in my opinion is a pure one car team.

You have been working with TJ13? Wow, well, I am not in position to detect the validity of the claim, but okay.:)

However, as for the question, why did Webber stay for so long, the answer is easy. There was no better place to go. Same with Barrichello in Ferrari. I am sure the team didn't revolve around these drivers and they were unhappy at times due to that, but if you are in the best car on the grid and can get at least occasional wins, it is better than be mired in midfield and barely get a few points on your scorecard.

Drivers all want to make a career and get good results. Difficulties and also complications in intra-team relationships are part of the natural game. This is something you have to suck up, deal with, and carry on. If you are picky, complaining and bang the doors by leaving, it is likely you destroy your career. Look at what is happening with Alonso. He fell out with McLaren in 2007 and had to sit in midfield cars for two years. Now it looks like he has fallen out with Ferrari and has nowhere else to go than back to this "disliked" McLaren. You have to be at least a bit diplomatic (or a"hated" PR-driver as the saying goes), if you want to have a good career, and not make enemies in the business.

Webber may not have had an easy time in RBR, but there are no guarantees he would have had it better elsewhere. Why could Vettel leave unlike Webber? Because he is much younger, can still have a meaningful career, and can basically be the unofficial #1 driver at Ferrari. Whatever that means, but certainly Ferrari expect him to be an important part of their future plans. Webber had nowhere to go, he would have been a #2 everywhere else too. And he was getting old, so it was important for him to get any results he still could.

[yodasarmpit]

Well that was not the most exciting race ever, in fact it was pretty awful.
Whilst not the greatest, I don’t think we can pin the blame completely on the track, unfortunately like the past four years we now have a team that is so far in front that there is no competition - with Nico going off on the first lap Lewis was able to stroll away into the distance unchallenged.

As for the track, turn 3 was good.


2.5 out of 10

[zako85]

The race track is aesthetically pleasing. Here is your daytime Abu Dhabi v2.0. However, the race was really ruined by the tires. Pirelli brought the tires that can last a race. Once teams figured this out, most drivers were just put on one stop strategy while making the tires last to the end, and that was that.

[555-04Q2]

It gets 10/10 for me, maybe because I was full of vodka when I watched it. Get it? :D No? Oh well... :p:

[steveaki13]

It gets 10/10 for me, maybe because I was full of vodka when I watched it. Get it? :D No? Oh well... :p:

Now come on 555 be a good boy, do you want your 10 to be counted in the official results? :\\

[Storm]

I could not watch even a single lap on Sunday (or any other thing on tv that day) but I guess I did not miss much :dozey:

[schmenke]

I was out of town and didn't watch it. Didn't even bother to record it on the DVR. Sounds lilke it would have been a waste of disk space anyways :p: .

[zako85]

You have been working with TJ13? Wow, well, I am not in position to detect the validity of the claim, but okay.:)

However, as for the question, why did Webber stay for so long, the answer is easy.


Ex post, it does seem like Webber could go to Lotus after 2011. Boullier was inviting him in public promising that at Lotus Webber will be number one. Of course, ex-ante Webber couldn't have predicted how successful the Lotus cars could be in 2012-13. Raikkonen did better those seasons than Webber.

[zako85]

This was the most boring race of season so far. The first few laps were worth watching to see Rosberg's silly mistake. For me, this was another bit of evidence that Rosberg is kind of losing his composure right now and likely doesn't deserve to win the title as much as Hamilton.

[rjbetty]

4 - since a few results were a bit different, and the new track combines to give novelty value, hence the score.
Did I give a score for Japan? 7 for that.

[Doc Austin]

Ex post, it does seem like Webber could go to Lotus after 2011. Boullier was inviting him in public promising that at Lotus Webber will be number one. Of course, ex-ante Webber couldn't have predicted how successful the Lotus cars could be in 2012-13. Raikkonen did better those seasons than Webber.

I don't recall Webber even complaining that his Red Bull pay checks were late, so maybe staying away from Lotus was not a bad move.

[jens]

Ex post, it does seem like Webber could go to Lotus after 2011. Boullier was inviting him in public promising that at Lotus Webber will be number one. Of course, ex-ante Webber couldn't have predicted how successful the Lotus cars could be in 2012-13. Raikkonen did better those seasons than Webber.

You could be right. After the loss of Kubica Lotus was missing a driver with who to go forward in 2012. But I guess during 2011 I would have made the same decision as Webber, because Lotus was struggling with car development that year and didn't seem like a strong proposition.