A pointless title fight thread

[steveaki13]

Hi all.

This thread is pretty meaningless and pointless:p, but I was bored the other day and decided to compare how this Championship would look under the 3 major F1 scoring systems over the last 20 odd years.

i.e the real standings now with 25,18,15,12,10,8,6,4,2,1

2003-2009/2010 (i forget which season) - 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

Pre 2002 - 10,6,4,3,2,1



So here we are wins for 2014 have been spread as little between drivers as any season since I watched. Just 3 drivers winning so far.

Hamilton - 8 wins
Rosberg - 4 wins
Ricciardo - 3 wins

So this is the current standings



1
Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes
266


2
Nico Rosberg
Mercedes
256


3
Daniel Ricciardo
Red Bull
193


4
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull
139


5
Fernando Alonso
Ferrari
133


6
Valterri Bottas
Williams
130


7
Jenson Button
Mclaren
82


8
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
76


9
Felipe Massa
Williams
71


10
Sergio Perez
Force India
46


11
Kimi Raikkonen
Ferrari
45


12
Kevin Magnussen
Mclaren
39


13
Jean Eric Vergne
Toro Rosso
21


14
Romain Grosjean
Lotus
8


15
Danii Kyvat
Toro Rosso
8


16
Jules Bianchi
Marussia
2


17
Adrian Sutil
Sauber
0


18
Marcus Ericcson
Caterham
0


19
Pastor Maldonado
Lotus
0


20
Esteban Gutierrez
Sauber
0


21
Max Chilton
Marussia
0


22
Kamui Kobayashi
Caterham
0


23
Andre Lotterer
Caterham
0





1
Mercedes
522


2
Red Bull
332


3
Williams
201


4
Ferrari
178


5
Force India
122


6
Mclaren
121


7
Toro Rosso
29


8
Lotus
8


9
Marussia
2


10
Sauber
0


11
Caterham
0



Using the 2003-2009/10 points system



1
Nico Rosberg
Mercedes
109


2
Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes
108


3
Daniel Ricciardo
Red Bull
77


4
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull
56


5
Fernando Alonso
Ferrari
53


6
Valterri Bottas
Williams
51


7
Jenson Button
Mclaren
31


8
Felipe Massa
Williams
27


9
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
26


10
Kimi Raikkonen
Ferrari
14


11
Sergio Perez
Force India
14


12
Kevin Magnussen
Mclaren
12


13
Jean Eric Vergne
Toro Rosso
5


14
Romain Grosjean
Lotus
2












1
Mercedes
217


2
Red Bull
133


3
Williams
78


4
Ferrari
68


5
Mclaren
43


6
Force India
40


7
Toro Rosso
5


8
Lotus
2


9
Marussia
0


10
Sauber
0


11
Caterham
0







*Interesting that Nico Rosberg who has been more consistant this season would be leading the championship still in the old format

Now the classic system pre 2003



1
Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes
100


2
Nico Rosberg
Mercedes
91


3
Daniel Ricciardo
Red Bull
58


4
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull
32


5
Fernando Alonso
Ferrari
29


6
Valterri Bottas
Williams
28


7
Jenson Button
Mclaren
15


8
Felipe Massa
Williams
11


9
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
10


10
Kevin Magnussen
Mclaren
6


11
Sergio Perez
Force India
5


12
Kimi Raikkonen
Ferrari
4


13
Jean Eric Vergne
Toro Rosso
1









*Kimi with only 4 points in a Ferrari :eek:



1
Mercedes
191


2
Red Bull
90


3
Williams
39


4
Ferrari
33


5
Mclaren
21


6
Force India
15


7
Toro Rosso
1


8
Lotus
0


9
Marussia
0


10
Sauber
0


11
Caterham
0




So there we go.

Not sure what it shows, but as I said. Its just for interest.

[Tazio]

Like! :crazy: :angel:

[jens]

Even in the old system the points would be relatively close (100:91), despite Hamilton having 8 wins to Rosberg's four. So I don't think we can blame only the much-criticized point-system, which keeps Nico in the game. Hamilton would be massively ahead only by the so-called medal system.

Only 13 drivers in top6 all season, just like in 2011. The all-time low-record.:) Though Kvyat has a chance of being the 14th one.

[steveaki13]

I think todays point system leaves a similar outcome to Pre 2002 system really with a big difference between first and second.

The amazing thing is how much it changes in the 2003 points system. It was said at the time. That 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1 did not favour the winner enough.

[journeyman racer]

Very good.

[steveaki13]

Its amazing what you do when bored. :p

[A FONDO]

That 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1 did not favour the winner enough.

I agree.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

But we all know that the 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1 system was brought in because Schumacher was winning the championship too early.

[steveaki13]

true, but he deserve too with the amount of races he won

Maybe that was the early "Show" improver

[jens]

So...



HAM - ROS 291 - 274
HAM - ROS 118 - 117
HAM - ROS 110 - 97


Well... the sad thing however is that unless some major drama happens to Rosberg in the next two races, Bernie will see his dream getting fulfilled and see the "good effect" of Abu Double in guaranteeing a title showdown. Without double points race Hamilton may well clinch the title even before the season finale. Later Ecclestone can use this argument as to why double points is a good idea and a platform for excitement...

[Storm]

So basically Hamilton might win 11 races in the season and still lose the title to a 5 time winner due to the double point fiasco?

[steveaki13]

So basically Hamilton might win 11 races in the season and still lose the title to a 5 time winner due to the double point fiasco?

Yes.

I can't quite work out how Rosberg is so close. I mean mostly they finish 1-2 to each other. I guess that one extra DNF is costing Lewis

[Somebody]

I agree.

And yet, Hamilton owes his only WDC to it. Massa would have won on the 1991-2002 system.

[jens]

Yes.

I can't quite work out how Rosberg is so close. I mean mostly they finish 1-2 to each other. I guess that one extra DNF is costing Lewis

Well, we saw that after the initial first 5 races.
Hamilton's run of results was: DNF 1 1 1 1, while Rosberg's 1 2 2 2 2, yet Hamilton was leading the championship by mere 3 points. So if you are able to finish directly behind your rival consistently, it takes time for him to build a gap.

After the Spanish GP both have had two more DNFs and there have been races, where Rosberg finished ahead of Hamilton (particularly in mid-season), so you can see, why this points gap isn't particularly big at the moment.

[steveaki13]

Updated

Hamilton 316 v Rosberg 292

Hamilton 128 v Rosberg 125

Hamilton 120 v Rosberg 103

[The Black Knight]

Well, we saw that after the initial first 5 races.
Hamilton's run of results was: DNF 1 1 1 1, while Rosberg's 1 2 2 2 2, yet Hamilton was leading the championship by mere 3 points. So if you are able to finish directly behind your rival consistently, it takes time for him to build a gap.

After the Spanish GP both have had two more DNFs and there have been races, where Rosberg finished ahead of Hamilton (particularly in mid-season), so you can see, why this points gap isn't particularly big at the moment.

Yeah well those qualifying incidents really cost Hamilton mid season and he cost himself 7 points by messing up in qualifying in Austria. He also has an extra DNF from Spa courtesy of Nico cheato!

It would take 8 X 1-2 extra finishes in Hamilton's favor for him to build out a 56 points gap enough to have the 51 points cushion required for Rosberg to have absolutely no possibility of winning the championship in Abu Dhabi. That's nearly half a seasons work that can be overturned in one race DNF which just shows how utterly ridiculous the current points system is!

[journeyman racer]

Yes.

I can't quite work out how Rosberg is so close. I mean mostly they finish 1-2 to each other. I guess that one extra DNF is costing Lewis
Going on from a similar question on the USGP thread. 10 wins would suggest complete domination of the opposition (like Vettel in 11, and the second half of 13). But this year, Hamilton has only edged out Rosberg, often. The points might be closer than the results suggest. But the win tally also exaggerates Hamilton's performance to Rosberg.

[The Black Knight]

Going on from a similar question on the USGP thread. 10 wins would suggest complete domination of the opposition (like Vettel in 11, and the second half of 13). But this year, Hamilton has only edged out Rosberg, often. The points might be closer than the results suggest. But the win tally also exaggerates Hamilton's performance to Rosberg.

When you have two drivers of Hamilton and Rosberg's level where they can see each other's data that's all it will ever be - edging out! The edging out is the difference between a WDC and not.

This title fight reminds me a lot of the fights Rossi and Lorenzo had in moto GP many years ago. Lorenzo being on a very similar level to Rossi but just not quite as good. I do believe Nico deserves a championship at some point. He's definitely better than other drivers that have won the WDC but he needs to do it the right way and not by just coming second the whole time and getting lucky in the end. If I were him I certainly wouldn't want to win the WDC that way knowing that I was beaten by my teammate throughout the year.

[journeyman racer]

When you haven't won, validity matters little. It's more important to "cross the line" of achieving the milestone. You can then worry about validating your ability/status later.

[Doc Austin]

When I saw the title was "pointless title fight," I thought this would be about Lewis and Nico.